June 10, 2025 • 53 mins
On May 26, 2025, Lewis Pugh completed one of his most daring feats yet — a 60-mile swim around Martha’s Vineyard in icy, shark-filled waters. Undertaken to coincide with the 50th anniversary of movie Jaws, Lewis’s swim was a powerful statement to change the narrative about sharks and raise urgent awareness for ocean conservation. While this swim captured headlines, the deeper story lies in Lewis’s relentless mission to protect our planet’s most fragile ecosystems.
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In this powerful re-release of one of our most inspiring conversations to date, Lewis reveals what truly drives him to swim in the world’s most extreme conditions — from the North Pole to Antarctica — and how he uses courage, purpose, and diplomacy to create real change. If you want to understand how one person can push past fear, endure the impossible, and help save the oceans, this is the interview you need to hear.
Lewis Pugh, the UN Patron of the Oceans and only person to complete long-distance swims in every ocean on Earth, shares his extraordinary journey of swimming in Earth's most extreme waters to raise awareness for ocean protection and climate change. Through his pioneering "speedo diplomacy," Lewis has helped create marine protected areas covering approximately two million square kilometers while developing powerful mindsets for facing seemingly impossible challenges.
• Swimming in sub-zero waters where "every part of you says get out immediately"
• Using extreme cold water swims to demonstrate the reality of climate change
• Following the Japanese martial arts concept of "shuhari" to master swimming and advocacy
• Creating marine protected areas like "national parks for the oceans"
• Applying "speedo diplomacy" to influence government policies on ocean conservation
• Building self-belief by "stacking" different sources of confidence before difficult challenges
• Finding your purpose by "drilling deep" until you discover what you were truly meant to do
• Using "fuss bait" (holding tight) when facing life's most difficult challenges
• Taking responsibility as swimmers to be stewards for ocean protection
Lewis believes we have a duty to protect this magnificent place for our children and grandchildren, and if people do that, then we have a future.
Whether you're a competitive swimmer, an environmental advocate, or simply someone searching for purpose, Lewis Pugh's journey offers profound inspiration. Listen now to discover how courage can be trained like a muscle, how persistence can change the world, and how finding your purpose can transform the seemingly impossible into reality.
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You feel that water as soon as you dive in.
I can barely breathe, I'mgasping for air.
That water just grips its wayaround you and holds you like a
vice.
Every single stroke is very,very difficult to take.
Every single part of you issaying get out of here
immediately.
You're in a death zone andyou've got to persuade your mind
(00:21):
that actually you can do thisand that you need to start
swimming, but swimming fast.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello friends, welcome to the Champions Mojo
podcast.
I'm your host, kelly Pallas,and this is where we celebrate
the extraordinary stories ofchampions who inspire us with
their passion, comebacks andjourneys we can all learn from.
We can all learn from.
(00:48):
On May 26, 2025, lewis Pughbecame the first person to swim
around Martha's Vineyard,completing the 60-mile-long
journey over 12 days in47-degree waters, while
navigating through rough windsand the lurking threat of great
white sharks.
Undertaken during the 50thanniversary of the movie Jaws,
his swim was a bold statement tochange the narrative around
(01:09):
sharks and raise the urgentawareness for their protection,
reminding us that a worldwithout sharks is a world where
the oceans are out of balance.
If you are new to Lewis Pugh,he's the only person to have
completed long-distance swims inevery ocean on Earth.
His TED Talks and YouTubevideos have garnered over 9
(01:32):
million views.
His autobiography Achieving theImpossible was chosen for Oprah
Winfrey's exclusive book list,and he serves as the United
Nations Patron of the Oceans.
Lewis is a pioneer, a protectorand a powerful voice for our
planet and, of course, anextraordinary swimmer.
Today, we rediscover themindsets that made these feats
(01:55):
and so many more possible,revealing how courage, fear and
fierce purpose drive Lewis toswim where no one else dares.
All to save the oceans beforeit's too late.
And after approaching 300interviews here on Champions
Mojo, this remains the mostinspiring conversation we've
(02:16):
ever had.
Here's Lewis, with previouslyunheard moments and reflections
that still give us chills.
And now our interview withLewis Pugh Lewis.
Welcome to the Champions Mojopodcast.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Thank you very, very much.
It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So Lewis flew in today from South Africa.
So we are just, we're sittingin Boston in this great hotel
and he's come in to give aspeech tonight and work on his
cause.
He's tireless.
He doesn't just swim, these bigswims, but he gets on planes
and goes talks with importantpeople about what's going on in
(02:53):
the world.
And I'm going to start with asimple question first for you,
Lewis.
So, as a fellow swimmer, I havedived into my share of cold
oceans, lakes or pools, and mymorning routine is my freezing
cold showers.
But cold water is truly one ofthe most uncomfortable things
that I think we can experienceas a human.
(03:14):
It's just blastedly unpleasant,even painful.
So how do you convince yourselfto get in and to stay in these
dangerously cold waters for along time?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Let's just put cold into perspective.
If I had one last day left onthis earth, where would I want
to swim?
I'd like to swim in the middleof the Indian Ocean in nice,
warm water.
So I don't gravitate.
I don't gravitate towards coldwater.
No, I do it.
There's a certain thrill in itand it's very, very challenging.
But the reason why I swim inthe extreme cold stuff is
(03:53):
because these parts of the worldare changing very, very quickly
, and so I'm getting in there toshow the world what is
happening.
So I'm doing swims in placeswhich until very recently were
completely frozen over.
So it tells a very clear storyabout the health of the planes
and the speed of change.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
How do you get in there?
You've got to have a very, verydriving purpose and self-belief
as well.
In listening to your TED Talksand reading about you, I'm aware
that every time you do thisit's really, really hard.
I think people can say, oh,it's Lewis Pugh, he's different
than the rest of us.
But you have talked aboutcourage and you say that courage
is a muscle that you have towork.
(04:37):
Can you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah.
So some journalists say well,lewis has this thing called
anticipatory thermogenesis.
Just to quickly explain that,to break the word down,
anticipatory before thermo heatgenesis creation.
So this is before I get intocold water.
We've noticed that my core bodytemperature rises quite
significantly in temperature byabout 2 degrees centigrade.
(05:03):
It becomes a solid, and as soonas you start swimming below 0
degrees centigrade, somethinghappens.
And so people say oh well,what's the difference between
swimming at 0 degrees centigradeand minus 1.7?
It is the difference betweenwalking in the foothills of the
Rockies and climbing MountEverest in the middle of winter
(05:24):
on your own.
It is quantumly different.
It is extremely painful.
You feel that water as soon asyou dive in.
I can barely breathe.
I'm gasping for air.
That water just grips its wayaround you and holds you like a
vice.
Every single stroke is very,very difficult to take.
Every single part of you issaying get out of here
(05:47):
immediately.
You're in a death zone andyou've got to persuade your mind
that actually you can do thisand that you need to start
swimming, but swimming fast.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
By swimming fast.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah Well, I mean you need to move fast.
You can't dilly-dally in thattype of water.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Would you be able to do it without this purpose?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I mean, for me it's become whatI get up for in the morning or
what I go to bed at nightthinking about.
As I said earlier, I've beenswimming for 30 years.
In that period of time, whichin terms of swimming is a long
career swimming for 30 years,but in terms of the history of
the world it's a nanosecond Inthat short period of time I've
(06:28):
seen our oceans change hugely.
I mean just to give you anexample when I trained to do
that swim across the North Pole,I trained on the edge of the
Arctic ice packs on a littleisland in the top of Norway.
It was 1,000 kilometers to theNorth Pole and I trained on the
edge of the Arctic ice and thewater was three degrees
centigrade.
I went back there two years ago.
(06:49):
The water is no longer three,it's now 10 degrees centigrade.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So that's a speed at which the Arctic, now in the
Norwegian sector, is changingbecause of climate change.
It's runaway climate change,and when you see that you have a
choice, the choice is very,very simple You're either going
to do something about it oryou're not going to do something
about it.
I felt that I should stand upand be a voice for the oceans
(07:17):
and for the incredible wildlifethat live in these regions, who
rely on us now to make gooddecisions and to get the Earth
back into its healthy state.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
That's truly, truly amazing.
So you once said that you weredone with cold water swimming.
Was that just how tough it waswhen you came out of that?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
When you've been really cold I mean really cold,
never, ever quite warmed upagain.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I wish people could see the look in his eyes when he
says that.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So I did a swim a few years ago down in Antarctica
where the water temperature wasminus 1.7, and the air
temperature was minus 37 degreescentigrade minus 1.7.
And the air temperature wasminus 37 degrees centigrade.
I'll never forget it becausewe're in the most remote part of
Antarctica.
We've sailed for two, two and ahalf weeks from the bottom of
(08:14):
New Zealand.
So if you're going to competein the Olympic Games, you know
that you're going to becompeting on the 5th of August
at 4pm in the 100 metresfreestyle, 5th of August at 4pm
in the 100m freestyle, and youknow exactly what you need to do
to get yourself ready for thatspecific moment.
So we've sailed and we don'teven know whether we're going to
be able to get to the swim site, because we're sailing through
(08:37):
some of the most dangerous season this earth.
We've sailed from 40 degreessouth to 50 to 60 to 70.
And now on the distance is thisenormous, great ice shelf.
I want you to imagine the WhiteCliffs of Dover.
Okay, that's what it was like,but it's ice, it's a Ross ice
shelf.
And you've got these strongkatabatic winds coming down from
(08:58):
the South Pole coming over thisand ice just coming down from
this ice shaft into the waterand the water is freezing cold,
minus 1.7.
So nobody's ever swum therebefore.
I don't get into the waterunless somebody does a quick
recce of the water to see what'sin the water.
So I said to my wife I said,antoinette, would you please get
(09:21):
into a small zodiac and goalong the edge of the ice there
and make sure there are nokiller whales in the water, no
leopard seals in the water.
I don't want to be swimmingwith either of them and I'll
never forget it in my whole life.
Because she was lowered in asmall zodiac into the sea and a
(09:41):
wave hit it up against the sideof the zodiac and water splashed
up and it turned into icemid-air and hit us.
And then she went up and downfor half an hour that's the
minimum amount of time that'srequired to make sure there are
no animals in the water.
She came back into the cabinand she was absolutely frozen.
(10:03):
And then she looked at me andshe said we're ready.
And so that moment you've got,you know, a serious question to
ask it are you now prepared toget into that water for your
belief?
And uh, I'll never forgetdiving into that water because
(10:26):
so the water's minus 1.7, butyou pull your hand out and your
hand is going from minus 1.7 tominus 37.
So you almost want to put itback in quickly.
It's a very extreme environmentin which to operate.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
My stomach is just in a night.
I know, I know I'm thinkingabout it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I'm thinking about a hot cup of tea.
How do you train so this?
You're saying that this is notsomething unique to you, that
you truly train hard to get yourbody ready to do this.
What are some of the just likebig chunks of training that you
do to prepare for this?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Let me take a step back.
Do you know about the Japaneseconcept of shuhari?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
No, what is it Okay?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
So my chief of staff is Japanese and he talks to me
about shuhari.
Shuhari are the three stagesone goes through in mastering
anything, and it comes fromJapanese martial art.
Shu means learn the law, hameans break the law and ri means
make the law.
So for the first 10 years ofour swimming career, it was just
(11:42):
shu, it was just learn the law,obey the law.
Every single day, down to theswimming pool, down to the beach
and swim with my coach, kevinFjalkov, and just try and make
every single stroke as perfectas it is as it could ever be
Long stroke, relaxed stroke,take a deep breath of fresh air,
(12:05):
repeat.
And that was 10 years and Ifound that the most difficult of
these three stages, becausethere's no choice of
individualism there.
There's no choice to.
You know how many coaches wantto work with somebody who
doesn't really want to.
You know, obey the law.
Every single coach wants you toobey the law.
But then we move into thesecond stage of my career, which
(12:27):
was the ha, which means breakthe law.
This came very naturally to me.
I loved it.
Maybe, I think at the time I wasserving as a reservist in the
special air service, which isthe British special forces, your
equivalent of US Navy SEALs,where you're taught that
breaking the law is actually nota bad thing.
(12:47):
You need to be pushingboundaries.
But also because I was livingin South Africa and the people
who went out to live in SouthAfrica generally there were
people who didn't want to livein the United Kingdom because of
all the rules and regulations.
There was a colonial spirit outthere.
So this stage of my life wasabsolutely great.
(13:08):
This was where I had a new coach.
His name was Brian Button.
He said to me Lewis, take lanefour, and all I want you to do,
lewis, is just swim, and youjust go for it.
And I believe in you.
And you know, when he said Ibelieve in you and he'd coached,
he was 75 years old at the time.
When he said to me I believe inyou, well, I believed in myself
(13:29):
and I started pushingboundaries and breaking every
single law that I could break.
If there was a harbour masterwho said I couldn't swim through
his harbour, I swam past hisharbour and it was at this stage
where I was becoming anenvironmental activist.
And so if there was a governmentofficial who said I couldn't do
something, well, I would pushahead and do it, and it was at a
(13:50):
time when social media wasbecoming very active and you
know, I could really startpushing boundaries.
But then the final stage theselast 10 years, is the re-stage.
It's a stage where now youstart making the law stage.
It's a stage where now youstart making the law.
So now I go and swim down inthe Ross Sea, in Antarctica, and
now I go to Russia to negotiatethe creation of this big
(14:12):
protected area.
And for 17 years governmentofficials from the United States
and from various othercountries have been trying to
persuade Russia to join the restof the community and protect
this area, and all of them havefailed.
But I believe that I can makethe law.
I can pull it off and I canbegin to make the law.
(14:33):
And you walk into thosenegotiations with a feeling that
I'm coming in here to make thelaw not out of arrogance, but
out of humility, out of Ibelieve that we can do this
because it's right for all of us.
And when you get to that stage,very, very few things become
(14:54):
impossible to achieve.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That is just.
I've got goosebumps.
That is amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So and when you gain that kind of respect, when you,
when you put your life on theline and say I'm willing to do
this for the oceans, then Iwould imagine that a Russian
called Slava Fetisov SlavaFetisov Americans will have
heard of because he was thisgreat Soviet ice hockey player
who was the first of the greatRussians to come and play ice
(15:35):
hockey here in America.
The Russian officials who hadto make the decision that they
were going to join the rest ofthe world to create this
protected area down in the RossSea.
It was astonishing because assoon as I arrived in Russia, you
know, I was put on statetelevision.
I was introduced to everybodyand I couldn't understand this
because, you know, I'd come fromBritain.
(15:56):
We're traditional Cold Warenemies.
We had grown up in very, verydifferent environments.
When I went out to South Africaup in very, very different
environments.
When I went out to South Africaas a young man, I'd served in
the South African military.
At the time we were fightingSoviet forces in Angola and here
(16:19):
I was, walking into the Kremlin.
I said to him.
I said, Slava, why is it thatthe Russians have been so
welcoming to me?
He said you know, lewis, yourmessage is very, very simple.
Your message is about cominghere, building bridges,
protecting the environment.
It's about listening, he said.
That transcends everything.
You haven't come here to causetrouble.
(16:41):
You've come here to try andsolve a problem and that's why
the door is open.
So you know, with any of thesenegotiations, there's a promised
land.
You just need to find it.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Wow.
Your swims have transcendedwhat other people can do and
anybody who sees a video of youpulling yourself out of the
water onto a piece of ice in theNorth Pole or Antarctica, they
have to stop and listen andthey're calling it speedo
diplomacy and it's amazing.
I'm sort of interested in yourcoach that gave you
encouragement and you said inone of your videos that you had
sort of a bad swim prior to yourNorth Pole swim and he came
(17:27):
into the room and said I've seenyou train.
Your purpose is important.
You will succeed.
Have courage, we're going totake care of you.
And that changed everything foryou.
How important was thisencouragement from others in
your success?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
It's interesting because, if I go back to the
beginning of my life, I was verylucky with my parents.
I had very, very loving parents.
They didn't push me, but theydidn't pull me, they just
supported me, if that makessense.
So certainly in the swimmingcommunity you do see some
parents who are very, very pushy.
(18:03):
In community you do see someparents who are very, very pushy
, others who do everything fortheir children and others who
sometimes hold them back bysharing their limiting beliefs
with their children.
My parents did none of that.
They just said, Lewis, if youenjoyed, crack on, and it's
wonderful to see you enjoying it.
And they were always very, verysupportive.
But when it came to actuallyputting the swims together, when
(18:24):
it came to the fundraising, Ihad to do all that myself, and
that is tough.
So this is the Olympic Games,where USA Swimming is now going
to provide the sponsorship foryou and the funding for you to
go and compete in the OlympicGames.
I now had to learn how to raisethe money, learn how to do
(18:46):
interviews with the media, learnhow to put a whole team
together and now start getting ayacht or a boat and start
sailing to the most remote partsof the planet.
My parents didn't lay out anymoney for me.
They were very warm andencouraging, but the support was
there, but they weren't pushingme and that was absolutely
(19:10):
instrumental in creating aperson who felt comfortable.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It sounds like you have created an amazing team.
You've surrounded yourself withpeople who help you to do what
you do.
I mean, you are absolutelydoing the hard work, but how did
you do that?
How did you find these amazingteammates?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I'm always hunting new members of the team, not so
that I can get rid of oldmembers of the team, but I'm
always looking to see where Ican get the very, very best
people.
Here's the point Courage iscontagious, but equally, fear is
contagious.
If I'm standing on the edge ofthe ice and I'm just about to
(19:55):
die in and I see fear onanybody's face, that'll ripple
through me within seconds anddebilitate me.
But if I'm standing on the edgeof the ice and I'm about to
dive in and everybody is lookingconfident and there's a fixed
mindset that we're going tostart at the beginning and we're
going to go all the way to theend, we're going to get out and
then we're going to have a hotshower afterwards.
I'm going to get in there witha lot of confidence.
(20:16):
So I always look for variousthings with the members of my
team.
I'm looking for people who, intheir personal lives, are
courageous people.
So, for example, the doctor whowas with me at the North Pole.
He's going to have to be themost courageous person, because
if something goes wrong there,everyone's going to say well,
what on earth did you think?
Why do you think that thisperson could do it?
But equally, every singleperson in the team has to be
(20:38):
courageous.
I'm also looking for people wholove to push boundaries.
I'm looking for people who areoptimistic realists not
pessimists, not cynics, notdaydreamers.
Optimistic realists, people whosay let's roll up our sleeves
and let's give this a very goodgo.
And, lastly, I'm looking forpeople who realize that time is
(21:00):
finite, that we're facing anemergency now, that we're now in
a race against time to save theplanet, and so we've got a
mission and we must we must actwith the sense of urgency.
But also people who realizethat, that our lives are finite
and that we have a choice abouthow we're going to spend each
(21:21):
and every day of our lives.
And this is how I and, I hope,all the members of my team we
want to spend our lives, whichis being a voice for our oceans.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
So you have a Antarctica hashtag Antarctica
Tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Well, we're trying.
So next year is the 200-yearanniversary of the discovery of
Antarctica, and Antarctica isthe most amazing continent I
mean.
When you arrive in Antarctica,it's like arriving in the Garden
of Eden and you stand on theedge there and you see emperor
(22:00):
penguins and king penguins andAdelies and all these amazing,
amazing animals and whales inthe water.
Really it's a beautiful placebut it's under threat.
We're trying to get a series ofprotected areas around
Antarctica.
These are like national parks,but in the water.
So no drilling for oil, nodrilling for gas, no industrial
(22:22):
fishing, just allowing nature torecover.
We got the first of these bigprotected areas set aside two
years ago in the Ross Sea.
Now we're trying to get a verybig one set aside now, uh, in an
area called east antarctica,and so that's that's, uh, that's
what I'm focused on now.
(22:43):
And remember I spoke to youabout how important it is to
have courageous people in yourteam.
Well, the russian slava fatisov.
He'll be coming with me down toantarctica shortly, where he
will be seconding me during avery tough swim, which I plan to
do early next year down inAntarctica.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
What is your planned swim for that?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
We're going to keep it quiet, but straight
afterwards we go to Moscow andwe'll be in Moscow on the
200-year anniversary of thediscovery of Antarctica.
It was discovered, actually, bya Russian explorer called
Admiral Billingshausen, andwe're going to be urging the
Russian government and theChinese government, who are the
(23:27):
two governments who still needto be persuaded that we need to
protect East Antarctica.
We're going to be urging themnow to sign this deal and if we
do that, we'll be creating anarea about a million square
kilometers, fully protected.
It's amazing, it's it's a atrue privilege to be able to do
this type of work, to be able tocreate the very, very big
(23:48):
protected areas.
So my team, over the pastcouple of years, we've we've set
aside or being able to createprotected areas of about 2
million square kilometers.
So there's no drilling, nodrilling for oil, no drilling
for gas, no industrial fishing,just allowing nature to recover.
2 million square kilometersit's about the size of Western
(24:10):
Europe.
We're happy with it, but wewant more.
We agreed.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
One of the things that I'm amazed about you is
your ability to balance, lookingback at your successes and
saying, look, this is good,we're moving forward, and also
keeping that urgency.
You know there's so much moreto do.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yes, I mean the English Channel swim is a really
good case in point.
So what I try to do is I try tofind a swim which, hopefully,
will capture the imagination ofthe public, and it's got to be
tough, it's got imagination ofthe public and it's got to be
tough, it's got to be.
I mean, it's got to be really,really hard.
And so I thought what could Ido in the United Kingdom to try
and persuade the UK governmentto properly protect its waters?
Just to put this in perspectiveonly seven square kilometres of
(24:50):
waters around the UK are fullyprotected.
I mean seven square kilometres.
The waters around the UK are750,000 square kilometers, of
which just seven squarekilometers is fully protected.
And I thought I mean this is,without stressing the point too
much, I mean it's an outrage, Imean it really is.
And so let me think about aswim which I could do, and
(25:12):
obviously in the United Kingdom,swimming across the English
Channel.
So swimming from England toFrance is an amazing swim.
So what I do is I put out a mapof the United Kingdom and I'm
just looking at it, looking atit, looking at it and just
trying to think of an idea of aswim which may work.
And that's the thing aboutcreativity it doesn't come
automatically.
You've got to keep looking,keep writing down all the
(25:34):
various options and thensuddenly an idea will come and
then you'll think to yourselfit's not an aha moment, it's an
erdo moment.
It's why did I not think aboutthis swim years ago?
And I was looking at the mapand I suddenly thought hold on,
why don't I swim the full lengthof the English Channel?
(25:56):
So not across it, but hundredsand hundreds of people have swum
across it.
I want to swim the full lengthof the English Channel.
So not across it, but hundredsand hundreds of people have swum
across it.
I want to swim the full length.
So I'll start at Land's End andI'll swim all the way to Dover
528 kilometers.
And nobody had ever done a swimof sort of that length and that
water temperature before.
And just to explain, so wehaven't explained this in, you
(26:16):
know, in this podcast.
You know I do all my swims injust a speedo cap and goggles,
even those ones in in the arcticand down in antarctica.
But I was, I must say there wasa lot of trepidation about
whether I could actually swim528 kilometers.
Anyway.
I decided I'm going to this.
I really want to draw this tothe attention of the British
(26:38):
government and the Britishpublic.
And so I took a train.
I all went down to Land's End,which is the beginning of the
English Channel, and there Imade three promises to myself.
I said number one we've got toleave our doubt here on the
beach at Land's End, because ifwe don't, as soon as I get
injured and you know, on a longswim like that you're going to
(26:58):
get your niggles.
I said I need to leave mydoubts here.
Number two second rule everysingle day is going to be a
swimming day.
I'm going to swim 10 kilometers.
Every day, come hell or highwater, I'm going to swim 10
kilometers.
And the third promise I made tothe team was that if we
couldn't take the yacht outbecause it was so extreme, the
(27:19):
following day would be 20kilometers.
Oh my gosh.
And that's the way we got tothe end.
And so, 49 days later,absolutely, absolutely exhausted
, I arrived in Dover and on thebeach was Michael Gove, who is
the Secretary of the State forthe Environment.
And you know I was exhausted,but now you're going to have.
It was live on television.
(27:40):
I'm going to have a debate withhim about probably protecting
the UK waters.
But that was the beginning ofit.
So I've done the swim.
I've done 49 days of swimming.
It was another six to ninemonths of hard negotiations with
the British government beforewe really started getting
results.
Before they agreed to furtherprotect some of the British
(28:01):
overseas territories.
So down near Antarctica there'san island called South Georgia.
They agreed to do a lot moreprotection down there Ascension
Island in the middle of theAtlantic Ocean, the big
protected area around there.
They agreed to announce aclimate emergency in the United
Kingdom.
They agreed that the UK wouldgo what we call net zero, so no
(28:22):
carbon emissions, net zero by2050.
Big ambitious steps, but it wasonly by constantly pushing them
, constantly in the media,calling them out for lack of
action, that we were able to getthese things across the line.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
So which was harder the swim or the negotiations?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
They're different.
They're different in hardness.
I remember with thenegotiations with the Ross Sea.
I'd been negotiating for nearlytwo years and, just to explain,
I'm the United Nationsambassador for the oceans, but
I'm expected to pay the expensesmyself.
(29:03):
It's a long story why that isthe case, but I was running out
of money.
It's all out of my own pocket.
I'm flying to Moscow.
I'm sitting in a hotel waitingto meet Russian officials, and
then I came to a stage where Ithought you know, these
negotiations have gone on for 17years.
How much longer can we carry on?
(29:24):
And I called my wife and I saidto her Antoinette, I think
we're going to have to call it aday because I'm going to
bankrupt the family.
She said I just want you to doanother six months.
And then it was astonishing.
A number of different thingshappened and within a short
period of time, the tide hadturned and Russia signed the
(29:45):
deal.
The point is, you never everknow how close you are to
achieving a deal.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So I understand more.
Now is the idea of nationalparks for the oceans.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
The United States we have tons of beautiful parks, we
preserve the trees, but I soconnect with that idea of a
national park or a state park ora local park for the oceans.
I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
So about 150 years ago the great big national parks
were being created and theystarted here in America.
You know the YellowstoneNational Park and Yosemite,
these really big ones, and it'samazing.
I mean, imagine what NorthAmerica or any other country
would be like today if thepeople at the time, the pioneers
at the time, didn't have theforesight to properly protect
(30:36):
these areas.
They'd be gone, be gone forever.
That's the situation where wefind ourselves now in the oceans
.
About 2% of the ocean is fullyprotected and now we're pushing
to try to get 30% fullyprotected.
So around the waters aroundAmerica is doing fairly well.
America has fully protected,and when America fully protects,
(30:56):
they do a good job.
America has fully protected 20,and when America fully protects
, they do a good job.
America has fully protected 20%of its waters Still nowhere
near enough.
But you look at some of theother countries like China less
than 1%, Japan, less than 1%,India, less than 1%, South
Africa, less than 1%.
Around the UK, it's a mixed bag.
So with its overseas it's gotlots of islands all over the
(31:19):
world from its empire over 30%fully protected, but in its home
waters seven square kilometers.
So this is a big fight nowwhich we're having, which is
getting governments to realizethat we're now in a race against
time.
We now need to create these bigprotected areas around the
world, and it's a privilege towork in this space.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
So, lewis, I'd love for our listeners to get to know
you a little more on a personallevel, because obviously you're
a champion, and we'd love toknow if you have any routines or
rituals or things that you doon a daily basis that help you
be so successful.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I don't really see myself like that, because in
order to achieve these swims,there's been a lot of hurdles
and I've fallen at many of them,but nonetheless I like to wake
up early in the morning.
I like to make my bed firstthing in the morning and make it
properly, because at least Igot one job done nicely and I
(32:24):
like to come back to a nicemade-up bed.
I try to do my swimming very,very early in the morning,
before any of the work.
You know, the negotiationsstart during the day and I try
to make every day a swimming day, every day.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So I try to make every day a swimming day, every
day.
So you swim every day.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I do my very best.
I mean, it's not alwayspossible just because I do an
awful lot of traveling, but Itry to, I try to.
But I certainly spend a fairamount of time probably half an
hour every day focusing on thesebig dreams which we have to
create.
You know, to set aside 30% ofthe world's oceans fully
(33:03):
protected by 2030.
So I'm constantly dreaming andimagining and moving the chess
pieces in my mind about how wecan get various governments to
agree these deals.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Does that come in the form of meditation or
journaling, or visualization, orwhat does that period of time
each day look like?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
It's the easiest part of the day because it's just
lying on the bed and listeningto soft music and it's imagining
.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
That's fantastic that reminds me I had a question.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
You listen to music.
I know at least before you doyour cold water swims Is that
part of your anticipatory usedto listen to very heavy rap and,
you know, aggressive music.
Now, the older I get the more Iget in quite gently and just
swim with a purpose.
So I enjoy listening to somesofter music these days.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
What might that be?
What would be an example?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
You know I love soundtracks to various sort of
to movies.
Anything sort of from HansZimmer will get me ready for the
day and get me ready for thatspecific moment.
But the most important thing isthat you've got to get yourself
to a stage where you believethat this is what you were meant
to do with your life.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, that part I love.
Okay, so purpose what advicewould you give in terms of using
your purpose or finding yourpurpose, so that you can be
motivated to do these greatthings?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
If I can give you an analogy you know, coming from
South Africa, let me give you amining analogy.
Some people, when they'relooking for gold, they're very,
very lucky.
They go down to a river andthey put a pan in a river and
they pan and they suddenly theyfind a nugget of gold.
It's like that in life.
Some people are very, verylucky.
They know very, very early onthat they wanted to be a doctor.
(35:14):
And you ask them when they werea young girl, maria, what did
you want to become?
And you say I want to become adoctor.
And you ask them when they werea young girl, maria, what did
you want to become?
And you say I want to become adoctor.
And you've always known that.
And then you meet them 30 yearslater, they're a doctor and
they're very, very happy.
For the vast majority of us,though, that's simply not the
case.
We've got to drill deep downinto ourselves.
In mining analogy, often youhave this thin strata of gold
deep down and many people digand they dig and they dig, but
(35:39):
they never quite get down tothat strata of gold.
And when you hit that strata,you know it.
You know that you found whatreally is your purpose and then
you just need to mine right theway along that line.
Keep on going, keep on going.
So that's that's what I wouldencourage so many people.
(36:00):
They mine, but they never quiteget down to what they were
meant to do with their lives.
And once you've identified itand once you really tapped into
it, it becomes a very, verypowerful force.
But what I do before all theseswims is in my mind.
I stack things Just to explainthis.
(36:23):
It's about self-belief.
For some people, yourself-belief comes from the
inside.
You're just so gifted at whatyou do that you believe in
yourself.
It's the Muhammad Alis of theworld, right, but the vast
majority of us, our self-beliefdoes not come from the inside.
Okay, in fact, very, very feweven Olympic athletes very few
(36:46):
of them does their self-beliefcome from the inside.
For most of us, it comes fromthe outside.
It's a parent or a teacher or acoach who says to you you're
really good at what you do, andwhen you hear that you believe
in yourself, for others it'soperating in an elite team.
When you join an elite team,you then have to step up to that
standard and then, when youstep up to that standard, you
(37:07):
start believing yourself Forother people.
Your self-belief comes fromexperience in life.
I always see this withmountaineers enjoy climbing
mountains.
You know, you climb onemountain, you think I can get to
the top, and then you go evenhigher the next year, and even
higher the next year, and thenyou find out that somebody's
about to climb Everest and theysay I can climb Everest because
I got all this experience.
But there's a last form ofself-belief which, if you tap
(37:31):
into it, it takes yourperformance onto another level
altogether, and the sad thing isvery it takes your performance
onto another level altogether,and the sad thing is that very,
very few people actually tapinto it.
And that is what we're talkingabout tapping into your purpose.
It's.
You know, growing up in SouthAfrica at the end of apartheid,
(37:53):
there were no shortages of rolemodels.
We're talking about people likeNelson Mandela, desmond Tutu,
molly Blackburn, people who,despite everything they were
going through, they kept ongoing and they kept on going
because that is what they weremeant to do with their lives.
So now, just before I'm goingto get into very, very cold
(38:14):
water, I stack in my mind allthese forms of self-belief.
So I start with the fact that,in terms of self-belief from the
inside, I realize I can handlecold better than most people.
I then go to the outside and Iremember that coach of mine,
(38:34):
brian Button, who alwaysbelieved in me, and when he
believed in me, I believe inmyself.
I've been now operating withthis team for many, many years
and I get so much courage out ofthem.
I look back at my career of 33years and I realize I've done
some very, very tough swims.
And then, lastly, I walk to theend of my life and I realize
(38:59):
that this is what I was meant todo and I better make it count.
And then I die.
Then.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
That deserves a moment of silence.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I know I don't even know what to say.
That is the most beautifullyput thing I have ever heard.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I don't even know what to say.
That is the most beautifullyput thing I have ever heard.
Yes, I'm just mesmerized.
And this Lewis seems to besumming up our shows that we've
done with champions on stackingand self-belief and mental
toughness and inner dialogue andmindset and all of these things
.
It's truly I've got goosebumpsand we're not in the cold waters
(39:40):
.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Can I just say this yes.
I love climbing, I love swimming, but the sport which I really
love is kayaking.
And I had the privilege acouple of years ago to train
with the South African Olympickayaking team, who were training
just before the BeijingOlympics.
So I trained with them inBudapest and we'd be kayaking
every day up and down the DanubeRiver.
(40:02):
And it was amazing because I'vealways been a swimmer.
But once I finished the swimming, then I've got to do, which is
a negotiation, but it was veryinteresting to be in the world
of professional sport becauseyou know, everyone would wake up
early and then I would have thefirst training session and we
would hammer ourselves up anddown the Danube doing really
(40:23):
fast intervals, and then we'dcome back and then everybody
would shower and then everybodywould have breakfast, and then
it was amazing, people wouldjust get onto the social media
and they're texting theirfriends and they're listening to
some music, and then they havea little bit of a sleep, and now
suddenly it's the afternoon,and now we've got the second
(40:43):
session, and then maybe there'ssome physio, and then maybe
there's an evening dinner andthen I'll go straight to bed.
And I just looked at this and Ithought, and really realizing
(41:06):
that you had this oneopportunity to really deliver
and stacking all thisself-belief and so that when you
get into the water youabsolutely believe in yourself.
You absolutely believe inyourself.
Um, yeah, so I think, the worldof professional sport.
But a lot of time is spent onon the physical aspects, but
(41:31):
actually drilling down deep intoyour soul, not enough time is
spent on that couldn't agreewith you more.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
that is something.
That's one of the reasons westarted the podcast is to get
into the minds of champions andthe mojo you know it's a term, I
don't know if you know it, butit's the special little secret
sauce.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Well, and what I'm hearing you say, lewis, is that
you know we're given gifts andwe can use those gifts for a
purpose other than justcompeting and winning those
gifts for a purpose other thanjust competing and winning.
You know we can.
You know and you havelaser-focused your gifts on
saving the world's oceans, and Ithink that's a call-out to
(42:16):
every one of us who has a gift.
You know what are we doing withour gifts.
I'm incredibly motivated bywhat you've said.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yes and inspired.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I'm incredibly motivated by what you've said,
yes, and inspired.
To have a gift and then not touse it is such a waste.
But this is one of the greatequalities in life, and you
remember at school those peoplewho were so talented and then
they really didn't go on to domuch, and those with less talent
did a lot.
It's one of the greaterqualities in life.
Those with the most amount oftalent often have the least
(42:54):
amount of ambition, and thosewith less talent often have
bundles of determination andambition, and those two things
put together become a very, verypowerful force.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
You can develop both.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
I think you can develop both.
Yeah, we have this concept inSouth Africa called fuss bait,
and it comes from the Dutch wordmeaning fuss, meaning tight,
and bait meaning bite, bite hard.
I want you to imagine a lionessrunning along the felt in
Africa and she's running after abig buffalo and she grabs that
(43:28):
buffalo on the top of the neckand then swings down underneath
and she's holding on while thisbuffalo is still charging along
and she's holding on and she'sbeing dragged along the felt and
she holds on because that iswhat she was meant to do,
because if she doesn't hold on,the whole pride is in danger.
(43:48):
And sometimes in life you needthat fuss bait.
It doesn't have to be thereevery single day, but there are
going to be moments when youjust have to dig deep and hold
on tight.
So fuss bait is grit, it'sresilience, it's never die, it's
just keep on going.
And I think what I'm seeing,especially now with younger
(44:10):
people, that they're looking forinstant success.
But it doesn't come like that.
I spoke about Shu Hari.
It's taken me 30 years to getto this position.
Success doesn't come instantly.
It comes through fuss bait.
It comes through years andyears of grind and then it looks
(44:33):
like it's overnight successbecause suddenly people hear
about it and they don't seewhat's happened behind the
scenes.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Fantastic.
Well, Lewis, I know you've gota speech to give tonight and we
want to give you the opportunity, as your last question, to say
what can our listeners do tohelp preserve the oceans?
Speaker 1 (45:00):
We rely on our oceans totally to survive, and there
are three big things nowimpacting our oceans it's
climate change, it's overfishingand it's plastic pollution.
I'm seeing plastic pollutionover every beach in the world,
even down in Antarctica and theArctic.
It's devastating.
But if there's one thing whichreally is of those three, which
(45:21):
is so significant, it's theimpact of climate change.
It's really devastating ouroceans.
I would just say, please,please, do every single thing
that you can to live a lifestylewhich protects the environment
and which is a low-carbonlifestyle, because we have a
(45:42):
duty to protect this magnificentplace for our children and our
grandchildren, and if people dothat, then we have a future.
If we don't do that, then we'reon a serious trajectory right
now.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
There's like also 20 things that people can do.
There's a place to donate,there's a lot of resources that
if people want to really becomeserious about this and we should
all of us, as swimmers, need toprotect the oceans then they
can go to your website.
Is there anything that wehaven't asked you or covered
(46:20):
that you want listeners to hearor know?
Speaker 1 (46:23):
I think that as swimmers, as kayakers, as
windsurfers, as dog walkers, aspeople who want to walk along
the beach, we all have a specialresponsibility to be good
custodians of the oceans.
And we think of swimming inpools as environmentally
friendly, perhaps, but swimmingpools has a very, very big
(46:46):
impact on the environment,obviously with the amount of
water we use, all the chemicalsthat are used, etc.
Etc.
We have a very specialresponsibility as swimmers, as a
community, to be right at theforefront of protecting the
environment and encouragingothers to do it, and examining
ourselves as a sport and seeingwhat we can do to really be
(47:08):
leaders in this movement.
So that would be my last wish.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
I love it Now.
So this is something we do onall of our guest interviews and
I just we have to dig a littledeeper on you personally, and
this is called the speed roundof questions.
And it's just a little funthing so we can get to know you
better.
Yeah, lighthearted way to endthis Lighthearted way to end
this.
I say one or two choices andyou just give me one choice Cat
(47:39):
or dog.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Dog any day.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Camping or hotel.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Camping any day.
Milk chocolate or darkchocolate?
These are the easiest questionsI've had Milk chocolate,
chocolate.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Okay, now, this one may not even apply to you, but
our swimmers are going to wantto know it.
Kickboard or no kickboard.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Oh no, I think a good kickboard really helps with
training.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Okay, kickboard.
Yeah unexpected there,mountains or beach.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Now, that's the tough ones.
Oh, for God's sake.
And I tell you the reason whybecause people often say, oh,
I'd love to go to the beachbecause it's so peaceful and so
calming.
But beaches are very, there'snoise, et cetera.
But when one goes right up intothe mountains so especially
I've done some climbing high upin the Himalayas and been on
Everest and when one's up onEverest and one looks down into
(48:36):
the valleys and through theGlaciers, it's very, very
peaceful and there you'll find awindow into your soul if you
spend the time there.
So I'm going to take both.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I love it.
I'm going to take beaches andmountains there.
Okay, now your football isgoing to be soccer, yes, and
cricket instead of baseball.
European football or Americanfootball?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
That's an easy one European.
Okay, iphone or Android iPhone,iphone or Android iPhone.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Coffee or tea.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Probably tea.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Tea and you've already answered morning person
or a night owl.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Definitely a morning person.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Texting or talking.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Definitely talking.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Okay, maria, here's my last good book you read or
listened to.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
I'm reading a ridiculous law book at the
moment, so it's on the law ofthe sea.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
That sounds awful.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
I'm sorry, you're a maritime lawyer right.
Yes, I'm a maritime lawyer, soit was a maritime law book, so
maritime law book.
Okay, last good movie itdoesn't sound fascinating, but
it's a great book.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Last good movie.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
I loved.
I watched the one about EltonJohn, about his life, called
Rocket man, recently.
Oh no.
And what Sir Elton John hasbeen through in his life has
been quite astonishing, and he'sa pioneer.
I love all pioneers.
I love people who are preparedto push boundaries and go for
(50:11):
things, and so it's a beautifulmovie.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Love Elton John, love him Favorite food.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Mexican.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Favorite place to swim.
That's probably a tough one.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah, I think I've just been swimming in the
Maldives.
The Maldives are a group ofislands right in the middle of
the Indian Ocean.
When you dive in there, it'slike diving onto the set of Nemo
.
Underneath you are all thesebeautiful tropical fish, coral
of beautiful colors, smallsharks, manta rays and turtles.
(50:43):
So if I had one last day lefton this earth.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
And it's a warm water temperature right.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
And it's warm water and there's no such.
So people say, oh, that must betoo warm for you when you've
swum in the water I've swum in,there's no such thing as too
warm.
So that's probably where itwould be the Maldives.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
That's nice.
This last question I want toask is I don't even based on
what you've said, I wonder ifyou even do it.
But how do you relax?
Do you relax?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
I struggle, and the reason why I struggle is because
I'm constantly thinking,constantly pushing, and
sometimes you only achievethings when you get into that
angst and you can't get out ofit and you've got to keep
pushing, keep pushing, keeppushing and eventually the
solution will arrive.
And recently I found myselfconstantly in that, Uh, I I've
got four dogs.
(51:36):
I love to go walking in theafternoons with them on the
beach in in in Cape Town.
But, uh, relaxing is a thing,which thing which I need to work
at.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
What kind of dogs?
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Oh, I've got everything.
So I've got a Jack Russell,who's the boss, I've got a
Rhodesian Ridgeback, who'sgorgeous, I've got a Husky Cross
something, and then I've got aSheepdog Cross something.
All of them are special.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Are any of them swimmers?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
The Jack Russell is.
She's a little swimmer.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Very cool, very cool.
Well, those are all thequestions that we have.
You did great on the tough onesand great on the little fun,
easy ones.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, this has been so inspiring.
I've got three pages of notes.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to inspire our
listeners.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Lois, it's been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Ladies, thank you both very, very much.
It's been an honor to be onyour podcast.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Thank you and best of luck in saving our oceans and
with all your swims.
We'll be watching and cheeringfor you.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Yeah, we'll be following along and supporting
in any way we can.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Thank you so much.
You feel that water as soon as you dive in.
I can barely breathe, I'mgasping for air.
That water just grips its wayaround you and holds you like a
vice.
Every single stroke is very,very difficult to take.
Every single part of you issaying get out of here
immediately.
You're in a death zone andyou've got to persuade your mind
(00:21):
that actually you can do thisand that you need to start
swimming, but swimming fast.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello friends, welcome to the Champions Mojo
podcast.
I'm your host, kelly Pallas,and this is where we celebrate
the extraordinary stories ofchampions who inspire us with
their passion, comebacks andjourneys we can all learn from.
We can all learn from.
(00:48):
On May 26, 2025, lewis Pughbecame the first person to swim
around Martha's Vineyard,completing the 60-mile-long
journey over 12 days in47-degree waters, while
navigating through rough windsand the lurking threat of great
white sharks.
Undertaken during the 50thanniversary of the movie Jaws,
his swim was a bold statement tochange the narrative around
(01:09):
sharks and raise the urgentawareness for their protection,
reminding us that a worldwithout sharks is a world where
the oceans are out of balance.
If you are new to Lewis Pugh,he's the only person to have
completed long-distance swims inevery ocean on Earth.
His TED Talks and YouTubevideos have garnered over 9
(01:32):
million views.
His autobiography Achieving theImpossible was chosen for Oprah
Winfrey's exclusive book list,and he serves as the United
Nations Patron of the Oceans.
Lewis is a pioneer, a protectorand a powerful voice for our
planet and, of course, anextraordinary swimmer.
Today, we rediscover themindsets that made these feats
(01:55):
and so many more possible,revealing how courage, fear and
fierce purpose drive Lewis toswim where no one else dares.
All to save the oceans beforeit's too late.
And after approaching 300interviews here on Champions
Mojo, this remains the mostinspiring conversation we've
(02:16):
ever had.
Here's Lewis, with previouslyunheard moments and reflections
that still give us chills.
And now our interview withLewis Pugh Lewis.
Welcome to the Champions Mojopodcast.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Thank you very, very much.
It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
So Lewis flew in today from South Africa.
So we are just, we're sittingin Boston in this great hotel
and he's come in to give aspeech tonight and work on his
cause.
He's tireless.
He doesn't just swim, these bigswims, but he gets on planes
and goes talks with importantpeople about what's going on in
(02:53):
the world.
And I'm going to start with asimple question first for you,
Lewis.
So, as a fellow swimmer, I havedived into my share of cold
oceans, lakes or pools, and mymorning routine is my freezing
cold showers.
But cold water is truly one ofthe most uncomfortable things
that I think we can experienceas a human.
(03:14):
It's just blastedly unpleasant,even painful.
So how do you convince yourselfto get in and to stay in these
dangerously cold waters for along time?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Let's just put cold into perspective.
If I had one last day left onthis earth, where would I want
to swim?
I'd like to swim in the middleof the Indian Ocean in nice,
warm water.
So I don't gravitate.
I don't gravitate towards coldwater.
No, I do it.
There's a certain thrill in itand it's very, very challenging.
But the reason why I swim inthe extreme cold stuff is
(03:53):
because these parts of the worldare changing very, very quickly
, and so I'm getting in there toshow the world what is
happening.
So I'm doing swims in placeswhich until very recently were
completely frozen over.
So it tells a very clear storyabout the health of the planes
and the speed of change.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
How do you get in there?
You've got to have a very, verydriving purpose and self-belief
as well.
In listening to your TED Talksand reading about you, I'm aware
that every time you do thisit's really, really hard.
I think people can say, oh,it's Lewis Pugh, he's different
than the rest of us.
But you have talked aboutcourage and you say that courage
is a muscle that you have towork.
(04:37):
Can you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah.
So some journalists say well,lewis has this thing called
anticipatory thermogenesis.
Just to quickly explain that,to break the word down,
anticipatory before thermo heatgenesis creation.
So this is before I get intocold water.
We've noticed that my core bodytemperature rises quite
significantly in temperature byabout 2 degrees centigrade.
(05:03):
It becomes a solid, and as soonas you start swimming below 0
degrees centigrade, somethinghappens.
And so people say oh well,what's the difference between
swimming at 0 degrees centigradeand minus 1.7?
It is the difference betweenwalking in the foothills of the
Rockies and climbing MountEverest in the middle of winter
(05:24):
on your own.
It is quantumly different.
It is extremely painful.
You feel that water as soon asyou dive in.
I can barely breathe.
I'm gasping for air.
That water just grips its wayaround you and holds you like a
vice.
Every single stroke is very,very difficult to take.
Every single part of you issaying get out of here
(05:47):
immediately.
You're in a death zone andyou've got to persuade your mind
that actually you can do thisand that you need to start
swimming, but swimming fast.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
By swimming fast.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah Well, I mean you need to move fast.
You can't dilly-dally in thattype of water.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Would you be able to do it without this purpose?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
I mean, for me it's become whatI get up for in the morning or
what I go to bed at nightthinking about.
As I said earlier, I've beenswimming for 30 years.
In that period of time, whichin terms of swimming is a long
career swimming for 30 years,but in terms of the history of
the world it's a nanosecond Inthat short period of time I've
(06:28):
seen our oceans change hugely.
I mean just to give you anexample when I trained to do
that swim across the North Pole,I trained on the edge of the
Arctic ice packs on a littleisland in the top of Norway.
It was 1,000 kilometers to theNorth Pole and I trained on the
edge of the Arctic ice and thewater was three degrees
centigrade.
I went back there two years ago.
(06:49):
The water is no longer three,it's now 10 degrees centigrade.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So that's a speed at which the Arctic, now in the
Norwegian sector, is changingbecause of climate change.
It's runaway climate change,and when you see that you have a
choice, the choice is very,very simple You're either going
to do something about it oryou're not going to do something
about it.
I felt that I should stand upand be a voice for the oceans
(07:17):
and for the incredible wildlifethat live in these regions, who
rely on us now to make gooddecisions and to get the Earth
back into its healthy state.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
That's truly, truly amazing.
So you once said that you weredone with cold water swimming.
Was that just how tough it waswhen you came out of that?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
When you've been really cold I mean really cold,
never, ever quite warmed upagain.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I wish people could see the look in his eyes when he
says that.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So I did a swim a few years ago down in Antarctica
where the water temperature wasminus 1.7, and the air
temperature was minus 37 degreescentigrade minus 1.7.
And the air temperature wasminus 37 degrees centigrade.
I'll never forget it becausewe're in the most remote part of
Antarctica.
We've sailed for two, two and ahalf weeks from the bottom of
(08:14):
New Zealand.
So if you're going to competein the Olympic Games, you know
that you're going to becompeting on the 5th of August
at 4pm in the 100 metresfreestyle, 5th of August at 4pm
in the 100m freestyle, and youknow exactly what you need to do
to get yourself ready for thatspecific moment.
So we've sailed and we don'teven know whether we're going to
be able to get to the swim site, because we're sailing through
(08:37):
some of the most dangerous season this earth.
We've sailed from 40 degreessouth to 50 to 60 to 70.
And now on the distance is thisenormous, great ice shelf.
I want you to imagine the WhiteCliffs of Dover.
Okay, that's what it was like,but it's ice, it's a Ross ice
shelf.
And you've got these strongkatabatic winds coming down from
(08:58):
the South Pole coming over thisand ice just coming down from
this ice shaft into the waterand the water is freezing cold,
minus 1.7.
So nobody's ever swum therebefore.
I don't get into the waterunless somebody does a quick
recce of the water to see what'sin the water.
So I said to my wife I said,antoinette, would you please get
(09:21):
into a small zodiac and goalong the edge of the ice there
and make sure there are nokiller whales in the water, no
leopard seals in the water.
I don't want to be swimmingwith either of them and I'll
never forget it in my whole life.
Because she was lowered in asmall zodiac into the sea and a
(09:41):
wave hit it up against the sideof the zodiac and water splashed
up and it turned into icemid-air and hit us.
And then she went up and downfor half an hour that's the
minimum amount of time that'srequired to make sure there are
no animals in the water.
She came back into the cabinand she was absolutely frozen.
(10:03):
And then she looked at me andshe said we're ready.
And so that moment you've got,you know, a serious question to
ask it are you now prepared toget into that water for your
belief?
And uh, I'll never forgetdiving into that water because
(10:26):
so the water's minus 1.7, butyou pull your hand out and your
hand is going from minus 1.7 tominus 37.
So you almost want to put itback in quickly.
It's a very extreme environmentin which to operate.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
My stomach is just in a night.
I know, I know I'm thinkingabout it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I'm thinking about a hot cup of tea.
How do you train so this?
You're saying that this is notsomething unique to you, that
you truly train hard to get yourbody ready to do this.
What are some of the just likebig chunks of training that you
do to prepare for this?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Let me take a step back.
Do you know about the Japaneseconcept of shuhari?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
No, what is it Okay?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
So my chief of staff is Japanese and he talks to me
about shuhari.
Shuhari are the three stagesone goes through in mastering
anything, and it comes fromJapanese martial art.
Shu means learn the law, hameans break the law and ri means
make the law.
So for the first 10 years ofour swimming career, it was just
(11:42):
shu, it was just learn the law,obey the law.
Every single day, down to theswimming pool, down to the beach
and swim with my coach, kevinFjalkov, and just try and make
every single stroke as perfectas it is as it could ever be
Long stroke, relaxed stroke,take a deep breath of fresh air,
(12:05):
repeat.
And that was 10 years and Ifound that the most difficult of
these three stages, becausethere's no choice of
individualism there.
There's no choice to.
You know how many coaches wantto work with somebody who
doesn't really want to.
You know, obey the law.
Every single coach wants you toobey the law.
But then we move into thesecond stage of my career, which
(12:27):
was the ha, which means breakthe law.
This came very naturally to me.
I loved it.
Maybe, I think at the time I wasserving as a reservist in the
special air service, which isthe British special forces, your
equivalent of US Navy SEALs,where you're taught that
breaking the law is actually nota bad thing.
(12:47):
You need to be pushingboundaries.
But also because I was livingin South Africa and the people
who went out to live in SouthAfrica generally there were
people who didn't want to livein the United Kingdom because of
all the rules and regulations.
There was a colonial spirit outthere.
So this stage of my life wasabsolutely great.
(13:08):
This was where I had a new coach.
His name was Brian Button.
He said to me Lewis, take lanefour, and all I want you to do,
lewis, is just swim, and youjust go for it.
And I believe in you.
And you know, when he said Ibelieve in you and he'd coached,
he was 75 years old at the time.
When he said to me I believe inyou, well, I believed in myself
(13:29):
and I started pushingboundaries and breaking every
single law that I could break.
If there was a harbour masterwho said I couldn't swim through
his harbour, I swam past hisharbour and it was at this stage
where I was becoming anenvironmental activist.
And so if there was a governmentofficial who said I couldn't do
something, well, I would pushahead and do it, and it was at a
(13:50):
time when social media wasbecoming very active and you
know, I could really startpushing boundaries.
But then the final stage theselast 10 years, is the re-stage.
It's a stage where now youstart making the law stage.
It's a stage where now youstart making the law.
So now I go and swim down inthe Ross Sea, in Antarctica, and
now I go to Russia to negotiatethe creation of this big
(14:12):
protected area.
And for 17 years governmentofficials from the United States
and from various othercountries have been trying to
persuade Russia to join the restof the community and protect
this area, and all of them havefailed.
But I believe that I can makethe law.
I can pull it off and I canbegin to make the law.
(14:33):
And you walk into thosenegotiations with a feeling that
I'm coming in here to make thelaw not out of arrogance, but
out of humility, out of Ibelieve that we can do this
because it's right for all of us.
And when you get to that stage,very, very few things become
(14:54):
impossible to achieve.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That is just.
I've got goosebumps.
That is amazing.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So and when you gain that kind of respect, when you,
when you put your life on theline and say I'm willing to do
this for the oceans, then Iwould imagine that a Russian
called Slava Fetisov SlavaFetisov Americans will have
heard of because he was thisgreat Soviet ice hockey player
who was the first of the greatRussians to come and play ice
(15:35):
hockey here in America.
The Russian officials who hadto make the decision that they
were going to join the rest ofthe world to create this
protected area down in the RossSea.
It was astonishing because assoon as I arrived in Russia, you
know, I was put on statetelevision.
I was introduced to everybodyand I couldn't understand this
because, you know, I'd come fromBritain.
(15:56):
We're traditional Cold Warenemies.
We had grown up in very, verydifferent environments.
When I went out to South Africaup in very, very different
environments.
When I went out to South Africaas a young man, I'd served in
the South African military.
At the time we were fightingSoviet forces in Angola and here
(16:19):
I was, walking into the Kremlin.
I said to him.
I said, Slava, why is it thatthe Russians have been so
welcoming to me?
He said you know, lewis, yourmessage is very, very simple.
Your message is about cominghere, building bridges,
protecting the environment.
It's about listening, he said.
That transcends everything.
You haven't come here to causetrouble.
(16:41):
You've come here to try andsolve a problem and that's why
the door is open.
So you know, with any of thesenegotiations, there's a promised
land.
You just need to find it.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Wow.
Your swims have transcendedwhat other people can do and
anybody who sees a video of youpulling yourself out of the
water onto a piece of ice in theNorth Pole or Antarctica, they
have to stop and listen andthey're calling it speedo
diplomacy and it's amazing.
I'm sort of interested in yourcoach that gave you
encouragement and you said inone of your videos that you had
sort of a bad swim prior to yourNorth Pole swim and he came
(17:27):
into the room and said I've seenyou train.
Your purpose is important.
You will succeed.
Have courage, we're going totake care of you.
And that changed everything foryou.
How important was thisencouragement from others in
your success?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
It's interesting because, if I go back to the
beginning of my life, I was verylucky with my parents.
I had very, very loving parents.
They didn't push me, but theydidn't pull me, they just
supported me, if that makessense.
So certainly in the swimmingcommunity you do see some
parents who are very, very pushy.
(18:03):
In community you do see someparents who are very, very pushy
, others who do everything fortheir children and others who
sometimes hold them back bysharing their limiting beliefs
with their children.
My parents did none of that.
They just said, Lewis, if youenjoyed, crack on, and it's
wonderful to see you enjoying it.
And they were always very, verysupportive.
But when it came to actuallyputting the swims together, when
(18:24):
it came to the fundraising, Ihad to do all that myself, and
that is tough.
So this is the Olympic Games,where USA Swimming is now going
to provide the sponsorship foryou and the funding for you to
go and compete in the OlympicGames.
I now had to learn how to raisethe money, learn how to do
(18:46):
interviews with the media, learnhow to put a whole team
together and now start getting ayacht or a boat and start
sailing to the most remote partsof the planet.
My parents didn't lay out anymoney for me.
They were very warm andencouraging, but the support was
there, but they weren't pushingme and that was absolutely
(19:10):
instrumental in creating aperson who felt comfortable.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It sounds like you have created an amazing team.
You've surrounded yourself withpeople who help you to do what
you do.
I mean, you are absolutelydoing the hard work, but how did
you do that?
How did you find these amazingteammates?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I'm always hunting new members of the team, not so
that I can get rid of oldmembers of the team, but I'm
always looking to see where Ican get the very, very best
people.
Here's the point Courage iscontagious, but equally, fear is
contagious.
If I'm standing on the edge ofthe ice and I'm just about to
(19:55):
die in and I see fear onanybody's face, that'll ripple
through me within seconds anddebilitate me.
But if I'm standing on the edgeof the ice and I'm about to
dive in and everybody is lookingconfident and there's a fixed
mindset that we're going tostart at the beginning and we're
going to go all the way to theend, we're going to get out and
then we're going to have a hotshower afterwards.
I'm going to get in there witha lot of confidence.
(20:16):
So I always look for variousthings with the members of my
team.
I'm looking for people who, intheir personal lives, are
courageous people.
So, for example, the doctor whowas with me at the North Pole.
He's going to have to be themost courageous person, because
if something goes wrong there,everyone's going to say well,
what on earth did you think?
Why do you think that thisperson could do it?
But equally, every singleperson in the team has to be
(20:38):
courageous.
I'm also looking for people wholove to push boundaries.
I'm looking for people who areoptimistic realists not
pessimists, not cynics, notdaydreamers.
Optimistic realists, people whosay let's roll up our sleeves
and let's give this a very goodgo.
And, lastly, I'm looking forpeople who realize that time is
(21:00):
finite, that we're facing anemergency now, that we're now in
a race against time to save theplanet, and so we've got a
mission and we must we must actwith the sense of urgency.
But also people who realizethat, that our lives are finite
and that we have a choice abouthow we're going to spend each
(21:21):
and every day of our lives.
And this is how I and, I hope,all the members of my team we
want to spend our lives, whichis being a voice for our oceans.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
So you have a Antarctica hashtag Antarctica
Tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Well, we're trying.
So next year is the 200-yearanniversary of the discovery of
Antarctica, and Antarctica isthe most amazing continent I
mean.
When you arrive in Antarctica,it's like arriving in the Garden
of Eden and you stand on theedge there and you see emperor
(22:00):
penguins and king penguins andAdelies and all these amazing,
amazing animals and whales inthe water.
Really it's a beautiful placebut it's under threat.
We're trying to get a series ofprotected areas around
Antarctica.
These are like national parks,but in the water.
So no drilling for oil, nodrilling for gas, no industrial
(22:22):
fishing, just allowing nature torecover.
We got the first of these bigprotected areas set aside two
years ago in the Ross Sea.
Now we're trying to get a verybig one set aside now, uh, in an
area called east antarctica,and so that's that's, uh, that's
what I'm focused on now.
(22:43):
And remember I spoke to youabout how important it is to
have courageous people in yourteam.
Well, the russian slava fatisov.
He'll be coming with me down toantarctica shortly, where he
will be seconding me during avery tough swim, which I plan to
do early next year down inAntarctica.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
What is your planned swim for that?
Speaker 1 (23:06):
We're going to keep it quiet, but straight
afterwards we go to Moscow andwe'll be in Moscow on the
200-year anniversary of thediscovery of Antarctica.
It was discovered, actually, bya Russian explorer called
Admiral Billingshausen, andwe're going to be urging the
Russian government and theChinese government, who are the
(23:27):
two governments who still needto be persuaded that we need to
protect East Antarctica.
We're going to be urging themnow to sign this deal and if we
do that, we'll be creating anarea about a million square
kilometers, fully protected.
It's amazing, it's it's a atrue privilege to be able to do
this type of work, to be able tocreate the very, very big
(23:48):
protected areas.
So my team, over the pastcouple of years, we've we've set
aside or being able to createprotected areas of about 2
million square kilometers.
So there's no drilling, nodrilling for oil, no drilling
for gas, no industrial fishing,just allowing nature to recover.
2 million square kilometersit's about the size of Western
(24:10):
Europe.
We're happy with it, but wewant more.
We agreed.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
One of the things that I'm amazed about you is
your ability to balance, lookingback at your successes and
saying, look, this is good,we're moving forward, and also
keeping that urgency.
You know there's so much moreto do.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yes, I mean the English Channel swim is a really
good case in point.
So what I try to do is I try tofind a swim which, hopefully,
will capture the imagination ofthe public, and it's got to be
tough, it's got imagination ofthe public and it's got to be
tough, it's got to be.
I mean, it's got to be really,really hard.
And so I thought what could Ido in the United Kingdom to try
and persuade the UK governmentto properly protect its waters?
Just to put this in perspectiveonly seven square kilometres of
(24:50):
waters around the UK are fullyprotected.
I mean seven square kilometres.
The waters around the UK are750,000 square kilometers, of
which just seven squarekilometers is fully protected.
And I thought I mean this is,without stressing the point too
much, I mean it's an outrage, Imean it really is.
And so let me think about aswim which I could do, and
(25:12):
obviously in the United Kingdom,swimming across the English
Channel.
So swimming from England toFrance is an amazing swim.
So what I do is I put out a mapof the United Kingdom and I'm
just looking at it, looking atit, looking at it and just
trying to think of an idea of aswim which may work.
And that's the thing aboutcreativity it doesn't come
automatically.
You've got to keep looking,keep writing down all the
(25:34):
various options and thensuddenly an idea will come and
then you'll think to yourselfit's not an aha moment, it's an
erdo moment.
It's why did I not think aboutthis swim years ago?
And I was looking at the mapand I suddenly thought hold on,
why don't I swim the full lengthof the English Channel?
(25:56):
So not across it, but hundredsand hundreds of people have swum
across it.
I want to swim the full lengthof the English Channel.
So not across it, but hundredsand hundreds of people have swum
across it.
I want to swim the full length.
So I'll start at Land's End andI'll swim all the way to Dover
528 kilometers.
And nobody had ever done a swimof sort of that length and that
water temperature before.
And just to explain, so wehaven't explained this in, you
(26:16):
know, in this podcast.
You know I do all my swims injust a speedo cap and goggles,
even those ones in in the arcticand down in antarctica.
But I was, I must say there wasa lot of trepidation about
whether I could actually swim528 kilometers.
Anyway.
I decided I'm going to this.
I really want to draw this tothe attention of the British
(26:38):
government and the Britishpublic.
And so I took a train.
I all went down to Land's End,which is the beginning of the
English Channel, and there Imade three promises to myself.
I said number one we've got toleave our doubt here on the
beach at Land's End, because ifwe don't, as soon as I get
injured and you know, on a longswim like that you're going to
(26:58):
get your niggles.
I said I need to leave mydoubts here.
Number two second rule everysingle day is going to be a
swimming day.
I'm going to swim 10 kilometers.
Every day, come hell or highwater, I'm going to swim 10
kilometers.
And the third promise I made tothe team was that if we
couldn't take the yacht outbecause it was so extreme, the
(27:19):
following day would be 20kilometers.
Oh my gosh.
And that's the way we got tothe end.
And so, 49 days later,absolutely, absolutely exhausted
, I arrived in Dover and on thebeach was Michael Gove, who is
the Secretary of the State forthe Environment.
And you know I was exhausted,but now you're going to have.
It was live on television.
(27:40):
I'm going to have a debate withhim about probably protecting
the UK waters.
But that was the beginning ofit.
So I've done the swim.
I've done 49 days of swimming.
It was another six to ninemonths of hard negotiations with
the British government beforewe really started getting
results.
Before they agreed to furtherprotect some of the British
(28:01):
overseas territories.
So down near Antarctica there'san island called South Georgia.
They agreed to do a lot moreprotection down there Ascension
Island in the middle of theAtlantic Ocean, the big
protected area around there.
They agreed to announce aclimate emergency in the United
Kingdom.
They agreed that the UK wouldgo what we call net zero, so no
(28:22):
carbon emissions, net zero by2050.
Big ambitious steps, but it wasonly by constantly pushing them
, constantly in the media,calling them out for lack of
action, that we were able to getthese things across the line.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
So which was harder the swim or the negotiations?
Speaker 1 (28:43):
They're different.
They're different in hardness.
I remember with thenegotiations with the Ross Sea.
I'd been negotiating for nearlytwo years and, just to explain,
I'm the United Nationsambassador for the oceans, but
I'm expected to pay the expensesmyself.
(29:03):
It's a long story why that isthe case, but I was running out
of money.
It's all out of my own pocket.
I'm flying to Moscow.
I'm sitting in a hotel waitingto meet Russian officials, and
then I came to a stage where Ithought you know, these
negotiations have gone on for 17years.
How much longer can we carry on?
(29:24):
And I called my wife and I saidto her Antoinette, I think
we're going to have to call it aday because I'm going to
bankrupt the family.
She said I just want you to doanother six months.
And then it was astonishing.
A number of different thingshappened and within a short
period of time, the tide hadturned and Russia signed the
(29:45):
deal.
The point is, you never everknow how close you are to
achieving a deal.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
So I understand more.
Now is the idea of nationalparks for the oceans.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
The United States we have tons of beautiful parks, we
preserve the trees, but I soconnect with that idea of a
national park or a state park ora local park for the oceans.
I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
So about 150 years ago the great big national parks
were being created and theystarted here in America.
You know the YellowstoneNational Park and Yosemite,
these really big ones, and it'samazing.
I mean, imagine what NorthAmerica or any other country
would be like today if thepeople at the time, the pioneers
at the time, didn't have theforesight to properly protect
(30:36):
these areas.
They'd be gone, be gone forever.
That's the situation where wefind ourselves now in the oceans
.
About 2% of the ocean is fullyprotected and now we're pushing
to try to get 30% fullyprotected.
So around the waters aroundAmerica is doing fairly well.
America has fully protected,and when America fully protects,
(30:56):
they do a good job.
America has fully protected 20,and when America fully protects
, they do a good job.
America has fully protected 20%of its waters Still nowhere
near enough.
But you look at some of theother countries like China less
than 1%, Japan, less than 1%,India, less than 1%, South
Africa, less than 1%.
Around the UK, it's a mixed bag.
So with its overseas it's gotlots of islands all over the
(31:19):
world from its empire over 30%fully protected, but in its home
waters seven square kilometers.
So this is a big fight nowwhich we're having, which is
getting governments to realizethat we're now in a race against
time.
We now need to create these bigprotected areas around the
world, and it's a privilege towork in this space.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
So, lewis, I'd love for our listeners to get to know
you a little more on a personallevel, because obviously you're
a champion, and we'd love toknow if you have any routines or
rituals or things that you doon a daily basis that help you
be so successful.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
I don't really see myself like that, because in
order to achieve these swims,there's been a lot of hurdles
and I've fallen at many of them,but nonetheless I like to wake
up early in the morning.
I like to make my bed firstthing in the morning and make it
properly, because at least Igot one job done nicely and I
(32:24):
like to come back to a nicemade-up bed.
I try to do my swimming very,very early in the morning,
before any of the work.
You know, the negotiationsstart during the day and I try
to make every day a swimming day, every day.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So I try to make every day a swimming day, every
day.
So you swim every day.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I do my very best.
I mean, it's not alwayspossible just because I do an
awful lot of traveling, but Itry to, I try to.
But I certainly spend a fairamount of time probably half an
hour every day focusing on thesebig dreams which we have to
create.
You know, to set aside 30% ofthe world's oceans fully
(33:03):
protected by 2030.
So I'm constantly dreaming andimagining and moving the chess
pieces in my mind about how wecan get various governments to
agree these deals.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Does that come in the form of meditation or
journaling, or visualization, orwhat does that period of time
each day look like?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
It's the easiest part of the day because it's just
lying on the bed and listeningto soft music and it's imagining
.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
That's fantastic that reminds me I had a question.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
You listen to music.
I know at least before you doyour cold water swims Is that
part of your anticipatory usedto listen to very heavy rap and,
you know, aggressive music.
Now, the older I get the more Iget in quite gently and just
swim with a purpose.
So I enjoy listening to somesofter music these days.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
What might that be?
What would be an example?
Speaker 1 (34:19):
You know I love soundtracks to various sort of
to movies.
Anything sort of from HansZimmer will get me ready for the
day and get me ready for thatspecific moment.
But the most important thing isthat you've got to get yourself
to a stage where you believethat this is what you were meant
to do with your life.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, that part I love.
Okay, so purpose what advicewould you give in terms of using
your purpose or finding yourpurpose, so that you can be
motivated to do these greatthings?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
If I can give you an analogy you know, coming from
South Africa, let me give you amining analogy.
Some people, when they'relooking for gold, they're very,
very lucky.
They go down to a river andthey put a pan in a river and
they pan and they suddenly theyfind a nugget of gold.
It's like that in life.
Some people are very, verylucky.
They know very, very early onthat they wanted to be a doctor.
(35:14):
And you ask them when they werea young girl, maria, what did
you want to become?
And you say I want to become adoctor.
And you ask them when they werea young girl, maria, what did
you want to become?
And you say I want to become adoctor.
And you've always known that.
And then you meet them 30 yearslater, they're a doctor and
they're very, very happy.
For the vast majority of us,though, that's simply not the
case.
We've got to drill deep downinto ourselves.
In mining analogy, often youhave this thin strata of gold
deep down and many people digand they dig and they dig, but
(35:39):
they never quite get down tothat strata of gold.
And when you hit that strata,you know it.
You know that you found whatreally is your purpose and then
you just need to mine right theway along that line.
Keep on going, keep on going.
So that's that's what I wouldencourage so many people.
(36:00):
They mine, but they never quiteget down to what they were
meant to do with their lives.
And once you've identified itand once you really tapped into
it, it becomes a very, verypowerful force.
But what I do before all theseswims is in my mind.
I stack things Just to explainthis.
(36:23):
It's about self-belief.
For some people, yourself-belief comes from the
inside.
You're just so gifted at whatyou do that you believe in
yourself.
It's the Muhammad Alis of theworld, right, but the vast
majority of us, our self-beliefdoes not come from the inside.
Okay, in fact, very, very feweven Olympic athletes very few
(36:46):
of them does their self-beliefcome from the inside.
For most of us, it comes fromthe outside.
It's a parent or a teacher or acoach who says to you you're
really good at what you do, andwhen you hear that you believe
in yourself, for others it'soperating in an elite team.
When you join an elite team,you then have to step up to that
standard and then, when youstep up to that standard, you
(37:07):
start believing yourself Forother people.
Your self-belief comes fromexperience in life.
I always see this withmountaineers enjoy climbing
mountains.
You know, you climb onemountain, you think I can get to
the top, and then you go evenhigher the next year, and even
higher the next year, and thenyou find out that somebody's
about to climb Everest and theysay I can climb Everest because
I got all this experience.
But there's a last form ofself-belief which, if you tap
(37:31):
into it, it takes yourperformance onto another level
altogether, and the sad thing isvery it takes your performance
onto another level altogether,and the sad thing is that very,
very few people actually tapinto it.
And that is what we're talkingabout tapping into your purpose.
It's.
You know, growing up in SouthAfrica at the end of apartheid,
(37:53):
there were no shortages of rolemodels.
We're talking about people likeNelson Mandela, desmond Tutu,
molly Blackburn, people who,despite everything they were
going through, they kept ongoing and they kept on going
because that is what they weremeant to do with their lives.
So now, just before I'm goingto get into very, very cold
(38:14):
water, I stack in my mind allthese forms of self-belief.
So I start with the fact that,in terms of self-belief from the
inside, I realize I can handlecold better than most people.
I then go to the outside and Iremember that coach of mine,
(38:34):
brian Button, who alwaysbelieved in me, and when he
believed in me, I believe inmyself.
I've been now operating withthis team for many, many years
and I get so much courage out ofthem.
I look back at my career of 33years and I realize I've done
some very, very tough swims.
And then, lastly, I walk to theend of my life and I realize
(38:59):
that this is what I was meant todo and I better make it count.
And then I die.
Then.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
That deserves a moment of silence.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I know I don't even know what to say.
That is the most beautifullyput thing I have ever heard.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I don't even know what to say.
That is the most beautifullyput thing I have ever heard.
Yes, I'm just mesmerized.
And this Lewis seems to besumming up our shows that we've
done with champions on stackingand self-belief and mental
toughness and inner dialogue andmindset and all of these things
.
It's truly I've got goosebumpsand we're not in the cold waters
(39:40):
.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Can I just say this yes.
I love climbing, I love swimming, but the sport which I really
love is kayaking.
And I had the privilege acouple of years ago to train
with the South African Olympickayaking team, who were training
just before the BeijingOlympics.
So I trained with them inBudapest and we'd be kayaking
every day up and down the DanubeRiver.
(40:02):
And it was amazing because I'vealways been a swimmer.
But once I finished the swimming, then I've got to do, which is
a negotiation, but it was veryinteresting to be in the world
of professional sport becauseyou know, everyone would wake up
early and then I would have thefirst training session and we
would hammer ourselves up anddown the Danube doing really
(40:23):
fast intervals, and then we'dcome back and then everybody
would shower and then everybodywould have breakfast, and then
it was amazing, people wouldjust get onto the social media
and they're texting theirfriends and they're listening to
some music, and then they havea little bit of a sleep, and now
suddenly it's the afternoon,and now we've got the second
(40:43):
session, and then maybe there'ssome physio, and then maybe
there's an evening dinner andthen I'll go straight to bed.
And I just looked at this and Ithought, and really realizing
(41:06):
that you had this oneopportunity to really deliver
and stacking all thisself-belief and so that when you
get into the water youabsolutely believe in yourself.
You absolutely believe inyourself.
Um, yeah, so I think, the worldof professional sport.
But a lot of time is spent onon the physical aspects, but
(41:31):
actually drilling down deep intoyour soul, not enough time is
spent on that couldn't agreewith you more.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
that is something.
That's one of the reasons westarted the podcast is to get
into the minds of champions andthe mojo you know it's a term, I
don't know if you know it, butit's the special little secret
sauce.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Well, and what I'm hearing you say, lewis, is that
you know we're given gifts andwe can use those gifts for a
purpose other than justcompeting and winning those
gifts for a purpose other thanjust competing and winning.
You know we can.
You know and you havelaser-focused your gifts on
saving the world's oceans, and Ithink that's a call-out to
(42:16):
every one of us who has a gift.
You know what are we doing withour gifts.
I'm incredibly motivated bywhat you've said.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yes and inspired.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I'm incredibly motivated by what you've said,
yes, and inspired.
To have a gift and then not touse it is such a waste.
But this is one of the greatequalities in life, and you
remember at school those peoplewho were so talented and then
they really didn't go on to domuch, and those with less talent
did a lot.
It's one of the greaterqualities in life.
Those with the most amount oftalent often have the least
(42:54):
amount of ambition, and thosewith less talent often have
bundles of determination andambition, and those two things
put together become a very, verypowerful force.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
You can develop both.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
I think you can develop both.
Yeah, we have this concept inSouth Africa called fuss bait,
and it comes from the Dutch wordmeaning fuss, meaning tight,
and bait meaning bite, bite hard.
I want you to imagine a lionessrunning along the felt in
Africa and she's running after abig buffalo and she grabs that
(43:28):
buffalo on the top of the neckand then swings down underneath
and she's holding on while thisbuffalo is still charging along
and she's holding on and she'sbeing dragged along the felt and
she holds on because that iswhat she was meant to do,
because if she doesn't hold on,the whole pride is in danger.
(43:48):
And sometimes in life you needthat fuss bait.
It doesn't have to be thereevery single day, but there are
going to be moments when youjust have to dig deep and hold
on tight.
So fuss bait is grit, it'sresilience, it's never die, it's
just keep on going.
And I think what I'm seeing,especially now with younger
(44:10):
people, that they're looking forinstant success.
But it doesn't come like that.
I spoke about Shu Hari.
It's taken me 30 years to getto this position.
Success doesn't come instantly.
It comes through fuss bait.
It comes through years andyears of grind and then it looks
(44:33):
like it's overnight successbecause suddenly people hear
about it and they don't seewhat's happened behind the
scenes.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Fantastic.
Well, Lewis, I know you've gota speech to give tonight and we
want to give you the opportunity, as your last question, to say
what can our listeners do tohelp preserve the oceans?
Speaker 1 (45:00):
We rely on our oceans totally to survive, and there
are three big things nowimpacting our oceans it's
climate change, it's overfishingand it's plastic pollution.
I'm seeing plastic pollutionover every beach in the world,
even down in Antarctica and theArctic.
It's devastating.
But if there's one thing whichreally is of those three, which
(45:21):
is so significant, it's theimpact of climate change.
It's really devastating ouroceans.
I would just say, please,please, do every single thing
that you can to live a lifestylewhich protects the environment
and which is a low-carbonlifestyle, because we have a
(45:42):
duty to protect this magnificentplace for our children and our
grandchildren, and if people dothat, then we have a future.
If we don't do that, then we'reon a serious trajectory right
now.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
There's like also 20 things that people can do.
There's a place to donate,there's a lot of resources that
if people want to really becomeserious about this and we should
all of us, as swimmers, need toprotect the oceans then they
can go to your website.
Is there anything that wehaven't asked you or covered
(46:20):
that you want listeners to hearor know?
Speaker 1 (46:23):
I think that as swimmers, as kayakers, as
windsurfers, as dog walkers, aspeople who want to walk along
the beach, we all have a specialresponsibility to be good
custodians of the oceans.
And we think of swimming inpools as environmentally
friendly, perhaps, but swimmingpools has a very, very big
(46:46):
impact on the environment,obviously with the amount of
water we use, all the chemicalsthat are used, etc.
Etc.
We have a very specialresponsibility as swimmers, as a
community, to be right at theforefront of protecting the
environment and encouragingothers to do it, and examining
ourselves as a sport and seeingwhat we can do to really be
(47:08):
leaders in this movement.
So that would be my last wish.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
I love it Now.
So this is something we do onall of our guest interviews and
I just we have to dig a littledeeper on you personally, and
this is called the speed roundof questions.
And it's just a little funthing so we can get to know you
better.
Yeah, lighthearted way to endthis Lighthearted way to end
this.
I say one or two choices andyou just give me one choice Cat
(47:39):
or dog.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Dog any day.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Camping or hotel.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Camping any day.
Milk chocolate or darkchocolate?
These are the easiest questionsI've had Milk chocolate,
chocolate.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Okay, now, this one may not even apply to you, but
our swimmers are going to wantto know it.
Kickboard or no kickboard.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Oh no, I think a good kickboard really helps with
training.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Okay, kickboard.
Yeah unexpected there,mountains or beach.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Now, that's the tough ones.
Oh, for God's sake.
And I tell you the reason whybecause people often say, oh,
I'd love to go to the beachbecause it's so peaceful and so
calming.
But beaches are very, there'snoise, et cetera.
But when one goes right up intothe mountains so especially
I've done some climbing high upin the Himalayas and been on
Everest and when one's up onEverest and one looks down into
(48:36):
the valleys and through theGlaciers, it's very, very
peaceful and there you'll find awindow into your soul if you
spend the time there.
So I'm going to take both.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I love it.
I'm going to take beaches andmountains there.
Okay, now your football isgoing to be soccer, yes, and
cricket instead of baseball.
European football or Americanfootball?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
That's an easy one European.
Okay, iphone or Android iPhone,iphone or Android iPhone.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
Coffee or tea.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Probably tea.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Tea and you've already answered morning person
or a night owl.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Definitely a morning person.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Texting or talking.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Definitely talking.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Okay, maria, here's my last good book you read or
listened to.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
I'm reading a ridiculous law book at the
moment, so it's on the law ofthe sea.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
That sounds awful.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
I'm sorry, you're a maritime lawyer right.
Yes, I'm a maritime lawyer, soit was a maritime law book, so
maritime law book.
Okay, last good movie itdoesn't sound fascinating, but
it's a great book.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Last good movie.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
I loved.
I watched the one about EltonJohn, about his life, called
Rocket man, recently.
Oh no.
And what Sir Elton John hasbeen through in his life has
been quite astonishing, and he'sa pioneer.
I love all pioneers.
I love people who are preparedto push boundaries and go for
(50:11):
things, and so it's a beautifulmovie.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Love Elton John, love him Favorite food.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Mexican.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Favorite place to swim.
That's probably a tough one.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah, I think I've just been swimming in the
Maldives.
The Maldives are a group ofislands right in the middle of
the Indian Ocean.
When you dive in there, it'slike diving onto the set of Nemo
.
Underneath you are all thesebeautiful tropical fish, coral
of beautiful colors, smallsharks, manta rays and turtles.
(50:43):
So if I had one last day lefton this earth.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
And it's a warm water temperature right.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
And it's warm water and there's no such.
So people say, oh, that must betoo warm for you when you've
swum in the water I've swum in,there's no such thing as too
warm.
So that's probably where itwould be the Maldives.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
That's nice.
This last question I want toask is I don't even based on
what you've said, I wonder ifyou even do it.
But how do you relax?
Do you relax?
Speaker 1 (51:16):
I struggle, and the reason why I struggle is because
I'm constantly thinking,constantly pushing, and
sometimes you only achievethings when you get into that
angst and you can't get out ofit and you've got to keep
pushing, keep pushing, keeppushing and eventually the
solution will arrive.
And recently I found myselfconstantly in that, Uh, I I've
got four dogs.
(51:36):
I love to go walking in theafternoons with them on the
beach in in in Cape Town.
But, uh, relaxing is a thing,which thing which I need to work
at.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
What kind of dogs?
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Oh, I've got everything.
So I've got a Jack Russell,who's the boss, I've got a
Rhodesian Ridgeback, who'sgorgeous, I've got a Husky Cross
something, and then I've got aSheepdog Cross something.
All of them are special.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Are any of them swimmers?
Speaker 1 (52:08):
The Jack Russell is.
She's a little swimmer.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Very cool, very cool.
Well, those are all thequestions that we have.
You did great on the tough onesand great on the little fun,
easy ones.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, this has been so inspiring.
I've got three pages of notes.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to inspire our
listeners.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Lois, it's been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Ladies, thank you both very, very much.
It's been an honor to be onyour podcast.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Thank you and best of luck in saving our oceans and
with all your swims.
We'll be watching and cheeringfor you.
Speaker 3 (52:41):
Yeah, we'll be following along and supporting
in any way we can.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Thank you so much.
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