November 19, 2024 • 46 mins
What happens when life's challenges pull you away from your passion, only to lead you back years later with a renewed sense of purpose? Michele Kuvin Kupfer, a former member of the 1980 Israeli Olympic swim team and filmmaker, invites us into her world—a world where swimming was once both an escape and a refuge. Despite facing hurdles due to her Jewish background and personal struggles, Michelle's return to the pool as she approached 60 is a story of resilience and transformation.
Her journey back to the Maccabiah Games in 2022 alongside her Israeli teammates highlights the enduring power of sport to heal. Michele is the Co-Director and Executive Producer of the new film Parting the Waters, a Feature-length documentary about trauma, hope, and courage. Besides being a documentary filmmaker Michele is also a behavioral therapist, and educational consultant. She is the co-founder of Difference Diaries, a documentary short film series focused on adolescents and young adults with chronic illness.
We also explore the historical and emotional significance of the Maccabiah Games for Jewish athletes, including the unbreakable bonds forged through shared challenges and triumphs. Michelle’s journey is further amplified through her work in film, where she shares stories of chronic illness and mental health, reflecting her commitment to resilience and community. From overcoming fear to finding joy in new beginnings, this episode celebrates the inclusivity and empowerment swimming offers, inspiring listeners to live fully and embrace life’s possibilities at any stage.
Film website https://www.partingthewatersfilm.com/
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I had learning disabilities, I had detention
problems, I was all over theplace, but when I got in the
pool it kind of soothed me and Iwas able to take my
frustrations out in the waterand really saved me.
Then and then, as I tell mystory, swimming comes back and
saves me again, and then again,and then again comes back and
(00:26):
saves me again and then againand then again.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to the award-winning Champions Mojo,
hosted by two worldrecord-holding athletes.
Be inspired as you listen toconversations with champions and
now your hosts, kelly Pallasand Maria Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Hello friends, welcome to the Champions Mojo
podcast and, as usual, I amco-hosting with Maria Parker.
Hey, maria.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Hey Kelly, it's good to be here today.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yes, it's great to see you and we have a really
amazing show today, as always.
But our special guest today isMichelle Kuvan Kupfer, a member
of the 1980 Israeli Olympic swimteam, who also swam
collegiately at IndianaUniversity.
In her youth, Michelle swam allover the world and had left
(01:14):
swimming, but recently found herway back.
As she was heading towards her60th birthday, she was feeling
the world was closing in on her.
After several of life'sobstacles, she found herself in
a deep hole.
She turned back to swimming.
She thought maybe if shereassembled her Israeli team to
(01:37):
swim together 40 years later atthe Maccabiah Games in 2022, she
could find herself again.
What else Maria.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Well, that's when she decided to get back in the pool
more seriously and swim at age60 like she had when she was 18,
returning to a lot of work,dedication, aches and pains, but
also deciding to tell the storyof this comeback in a film for
herself and her teammates.
She's producing a documentarycalled Parting the Waters, a
(02:09):
story about belonging, personalstruggles, perseverance and
triumph.
So welcome to Champions Mojo.
We're so glad to have you,michelle.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, I'm really honored to be here and to be
with both of you who I grew upwith, knowing you guys in the
collegiate world.
Certainly Kelly was swimmingand Maria, your accolades in
sport is just amazing, so thankyou for inviting me.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Well, we, yeah, we're excited to hear what your life
has been like since.
You know, being a 1980 Olympianfor Israel.
Can you just take us back tomaybe your days of growing up I
believe it was Palm Beach,florida like how you got into
swimming a little bit and thenwhat obstacles were these that
got you into this hole thatbrought you back to swimming so
I had a really unusual, I thinkunusual.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Everyone has a story and this is just my story.
But I grew up a littledifferently.
My father was a doctor, mymother was a social worker but a
survivor of the Holocaust.
They came to the States andtrying to fit in, my father was
an infectious disease expert andcame to NIH and Miami but was
(03:21):
looking for.
His quote was always I'll havefour kids in five years and I
need to pay for all this.
He saw this ad about a doctorbeing needed on the small island
of Palm Beach, florida, and myparents really didn't know much
about it.
It's a small island that's verywell known for sort of the rich
and famous, but he knew it wasa job and he took it.
(03:45):
So we moved to this littleisland in Florida, not really
knowing much about what it wasall about, except that it was
beautiful.
It was the water, and growingup in Florida you better learn
how to swim real quick becausethere's water all around you.
So my parents were like, threwus in the pool at a really young
age, whether we liked it or not, and I loved it.
(04:08):
I loved it.
I felt free in the water.
I'm in between two sisters andthen I have a younger brother
out of the four of us and I wasreally good at sports, where
they were really good at schooland I wasn't.
So swimming was sort of a havenfor me.
But growing in Palm Beach hadits challenges in and out of the
(04:28):
pool.
I couldn't swim on the localswim team, which was only about
a five minute bike ride away,because they didn't allow Jews
at the time.
So my mother had to drive meoff the island 45 minutes to a
different pool where I wasallowed to swim, the island 45
minutes to a different poolwhere I was allowed to swim.
You know, this was kind ofcrazy to me.
I just couldn't understand it.
(04:49):
It was hard.
I was the only Jewish person onour swim team for a long time
and you know, look, growing upis hard wherever.
But swimming was that placewhere I would go during those
young days of swimming and notbeing able to swim on certain
teams.
But then I was beatingeverybody and they're like ooh,
okay, well, they wanted me ontheir team but I couldn't be on
(05:11):
their team.
So in some ways there was alittle bit of payback to that
team.
What year was that that was?
I started swimming early, likefive, six, but really
competitively around eight, ninein the youth, and then around
10, 11, 12 is when I reallystarted picking up and getting a
(05:31):
little bit more seriously.
And then, probably like anyswimmer, listening, around 12 is
when you sort of make thatdecision Am I going to be really
dedicated to swimming and jointhe AAU teams and swim twice a
day and do all that?
And that happened around 12, 13, when I realized that I was
better than most and I thought,wow, I can find my place here in
(05:56):
this world Because I was reallystuck in between two sisters
who were really smart and justdid really well in school and I
was like I had learningdisabilities, I had detention
problems, I was all over theplace, but when I got in the
pool it kind of soothed me and Iwas able to take my
(06:17):
frustrations out in the waterand really saved me.
Then and then, as I tell mystory, swimming comes back and
saves me again, and then again,and then again.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
So, Maria, I think I'm with you, At least.
Maybe our list starts what year?
Years of your age, but likewhat year was it that you were
excluded for being Jewish?
What year was?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
that.
Yeah, so that was in the early1970s.
So I was born in 1962 and atage eight, nine, 1970, and was
wanting to be on the team, notjust going to swimming.
They had a team for like eight10 year olds, I think the
youngest group was and, man, Iwanted to be on that team and it
was just down the street, Icould ride my bike there and
(07:01):
that was when I first realized,wow, this world is not as pretty
as what I see when I lookoutside the window, at the water
, at the ocean.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I'm sorry that you had to go through that.
Obviously, we know that thetough things we go through
usually make us the best, thehardest deals formed in the
hottest fires.
How did you end up on theIsraeli Olympic team, being a
Floridian?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
My father was very famous in infectious diseases.
He had discovered thefluorescent antibody test for
malaria, and so he was invitedall over the world to give
lectures.
My mother, as a Holocaustsurvivor, never really felt she
fit in in America.
She wanted to be in Israel butdidn't have the opportunity
really to go until my father,who also wanted to go to Israel
(07:48):
and had been for work prior tomeeting my mother.
My father was invited to gogive a lecture in 1970, and my
mother went with him.
And that trip we did not go.
We were young kids.
They left us a call, they wentto Israel and my mother came
back a different person.
It changed their lives forever.
(08:09):
Israel in 1970 then became partof our lives.
The next year we all went toIsrael, and growing up in Palm
Beach had its advantages.
My father was the doctor.
Palm Beach 50 years ago wasreally a winter resort.
People would live there duringthe winter and everyone would
(08:30):
flock to their other homes inthe summer, so it allowed my
father some freedom.
He was also a real character.
He's the doctor you want.
If you called him up and youdidn't feel well and you
happened to be 10,000 miles away, he would say no, no, it's okay
, I'll be there and he would go.
(08:51):
He was doctor, he was a medicaldoctor, he was their
psychiatrist.
He really took care of hispatients.
But it allowed us as a familyto go to Israel for three, four
months a year and then come backfor school.
I couldn't understand why weever left and didn't stay in
(09:11):
Israel.
But my father had to make aliving.
This was his best way of doingit.
So we led this veryschizophrenic life of going back
and forth.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And you went to school there at some point.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I did some schooling there, but most of our schooling
was on the island.
Back then Palm Beach had alittle school and there was no
air conditioning.
School ended like the firstweek of May and my mother would
take us out of school.
I don't know.
It was a different time and wewould study in Israel and do
some stuff.
But my parents weren't so rigidwhen it came to school until
(09:45):
later on in life.
But when I turned around 12, 13,I said to my father I love
being in Israel, it was great,but I can't stop swimming.
My team's practicing like crazyin the summer and I can't not
do that.
He goes, don't worry, we'llfind you a team.
And sure enough I joined thelocal YMCA in Jerusalem, which
is a famous, actually the oldestY in the world Amazing, and
(10:09):
Jerusalem had this great swimteam.
So I joined and was not sowelcomed at first.
Here was this girl coming inand it was good and I was taking
some spots away from othergirls who were there 12 months a
year and I was only there four,sometimes five months a year.
But I loved being there.
(10:31):
I felt much more free there, Ijust loved it and I kind of
brushed it off team would belike what You're swimming in
Israel?
There are no pools there, it'sa desert.
What are you talking about?
And then I'd go back to Israeland they'd be like, no, no, you
(10:51):
just were with your Americanteam and, I'm sure, practicing
much harder than us or gettingmuch more coaching than us which
wasn't true, but it was sort ofa little bit of a battle.
When I was 15, our coach saidto me you know, you're really
good and we're putting togetherthe team for 1980.
(11:12):
And you need to make a decision.
Do you want to swim for Israelor take your chances to make the
American team?
And in my mind it was not anoption.
I loved being in Israel Then.
That was that was my firstchoice.
And so I became an Israelicitizen at age 15.
And from that moment on, anyinternational event, my
allegiance was to Israel.
(11:33):
That continues to this day.
That continues to this day.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
So you're an inspiration for this.
You were in this kind of darkplace and you got back in the
pool and I love that.
You said you trained like youwere 18.
Tell us about that, because ourlisteners a lot of them are
master swimmers.
What does it look like when a60-year-old decides they're
going to go back and train likethey're 18?
What was your training scheduleand what was that like?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Well, I'll fill in the middle pieces after we talk
about this training period,because a lot happened between
the time I stopped competitiveswimming and got back into it.
After I stopped swimmingcompetitively, I really stopped,
but I'm very active andhyperactive and was biking and
walking a lot but wasn'tswimming a lot mainly due to
(12:19):
having three children very small, two with severe medical issues
.
It was a very difficult startof a family.
Years later I got back in thepool, but just sort of to escape
everything, to get my headunder the water and would swim
some laps.
But it wasn't training in anyway until I decided to recreate
(12:42):
this idea to get back into thepool.
And the reason I wanted to doit were two reasons.
I was really not in a goodplace.
My best mate from swimming, lior, who was a national swimmer in
Israel and really the queen ofthe crop she became an announcer
(13:03):
for swimming.
She immediately became a masterof swimming, was one of the
best in the world was diagnosedwith colon cancer and was dying
and our team wanted to motivateher.
And the other was our son,who's a brain tumor survivor.
Yeah, I know, when I read yourbio, maria, I just you know it's
(13:27):
very difficult.
He was diagnosed with a braintumor as a child and it's been a
very, very difficult road.
And as a young adult, he wasliving with us and I was trapped
.
I was trapped with this sweet,sweet young man but trying to
keep him alive and it consumedme.
(13:48):
It was also during COVID and wewere.
It was just even more amped upthan it had been in years past
and I felt like it was eithergoing to be him or me.
I felt like I was really losingmyself and it was really my
husband who said you got to getback in the water.
That's where you go when youdon't feel well.
(14:08):
That's when you go when youneed to think.
That's when you go when youjust need to be creative.
Go, get in the water.
And so I thought oh my God, howam I going to?
I started looking at the timesof master swimmers and Kelly I
mean you and I swim the sameevent.
I'm thinking, oh my God, youknow I can't go and not win.
I held the records in Israel.
(14:29):
It was such a great motivatorfor me and it gave me focus to
say can I do this as a almost 60year old?
Can I get back in the water andreally compete.
I had no idea how intensemaster swimming is, so I had to
really get back and it hurt.
I remember getting in the waterthe first time and I made my
(14:52):
husband come with me because Isaid, oh my God, I need somebody
to say get there, just do it.
And I remember lifting my rightshoulder, which I had injured
years prior, and thinking, no,this isn't going to work, I
can't even do a full thing.
I've always been in shape.
I'm an athlete but not at thatpoint, and it took every day
just kind of saying no, I can doit.
(15:15):
A lot of ice, a lot of heat, alot of physical therapy, really
a lot of motivation for myhusband, gary.
But the truth is there was somuch deep inside of me that felt
like this is my way out.
Maybe, maybe I can save myselfagain.
The swimming saved me so manytimes.
I thought this is a big one,this is a big ass.
(15:38):
I'm 60.
I want to swim in this big raceagainst swimmers who are like
competing all the time.
But I needed something to saveme because I felt like I was
being really sucked down tryingto keep our son alive.
My best friend is dying.
I felt like I was sitting atthe bottom of the pool and not
(15:59):
seeing what I typically wouldsee when I was young looking up
at the bubbles and seeing thelight.
I was feeling like I was justseeing darkness and I needed to
recreate that light again.
So it was hard.
It took a lot of getting in thepool, hurting but also feeling
like every day was a little bitbetter and a little bit faster.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
What did that look like?
You know, like was it threedays a week, five days a week,
1,000, 5,000?
.
What does that look like whenan Olympic swimmer comes back
and I do want to say you don'thave to go to Masters and win,
that's just your.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You are still right and I have a fun story to say
why I said that.
But getting back into swimmingfor me was very different than
when I was a swimmer in my youth, because I was a distance
swimmer and back then it wasabout yardage.
You know, I'd get up at 430 andswim two hours and go back and
swim two hours and it was likeyou know as many yards as you
(17:01):
can get in or meters you can getin.
That was the goal and I thought, well, first of all, there's no
way I can do that.
I don't want to spend fourhours a day in the pool and also
I think swimming has evolvedthat you don't need to do as
much yardage.
So I got that, I sort of wrotethat in my head and I don't have
to do that type of amount.
So I started about three days aweek just trying to get in
(17:23):
about a thousand, just gettingcomfortable in the water.
Again I had a real problem,though I couldn't flip.
It wasn't because I couldn'tactually do the flip, but I
would get so dizzy that it wouldruin my, not just that moment,
it would ruin like my whole day.
I had terrible vertigo and Iwent to the ear doctor and he
(17:43):
says and he kind of laughed atme and he says you know, you're
almost 60.
I mean, most women your age, alot of women your age, have this
problem where they get dizzymore easily.
And I said okay, well, what canI do to fix it?
And he goes well, you can trythis, you can try that.
(18:08):
I tried everything and it justdidn't work.
So I got really good at turningfast but I felt like it was
slowing me down, and I think itdoes still slow me down.
But that always was in my headthat I'm not flipping.
But I did start around threedays a week and then within a
few months I went to four days aweek, around 2000 yards, but I
was avoiding looking at theclock and that was my own psyche
, like I didn't want to look atthe clock and think am I really
(18:29):
slow or am I where I should be?
And I just didn't for a longtime.
Then, slowly, I decided Ibetter look at the clock and see
where I'm at and I startedpushing.
But I have not gone over 3,000meters, but I do swim four to
five times a week, always in themorning.
(18:50):
If I swim late, I don't know,maybe it's my age then.
I can't sleep all night, so I'dswim in the morning.
I definitely needed to go tophysical therapy, which was
something I never needed as ayouth.
That was new to me my back, myshoulders, I would get cramps in
my feet.
I had to learn how to reallydrink a lot during practice,
(19:11):
keep my electrolytes up, which Iwas not used to as a youth.
It was a different way oftraining, but it wasn't
unmanageable.
It felt really manageable and Imet a lot of really amazing
people in the master's worldthat.
It just opened my eyes up and Ikind of said, god, why wasn't I
(19:33):
doing this all along?
I felt like I missed out, likewhy did I stop?
And this was like a reawakening.
And now one of the biggestgifts I've gotten out of this
whole thing is that I'm a masterswimmer and I love it.
Oh, that's beautiful.
How's your son?
Oh, so I'm.
So you know, I read your bio,maria, and I know you had a
(19:55):
sister who died of brain cancerand it's been a hard road.
My husband happens to be apediatric hematologist,
oncologist, so you can imaginewhen we go in and they tell us
our son has a brain tumor and myhusband's one of the doctors on
the team.
You know it's like not right.
He's alive because of modernmedicine, which is amazing that
(20:17):
he's alive.
He's alive and he can stayalive if he is compliant with
his medical regimen, which is,as you know, with children,
especially when they enteradolescence and young adulthood.
Being compliant is very hard,and chronic illness and mental
health go hand in hand.
(20:37):
I studied in school.
I was a behavioral therapist.
I studied in school, I was abehavioral therapist and before
our son got sick, my expertisewas working with young adults
and adolescents with chronicillness.
Oh, wow, go figure.
Yeah, married to an oncologist.
Everyone thought we were thislike dream team.
Here we are, and we were atYale.
I was giving all these lecturesabout the sake of social issues,
(21:00):
about how to care for your kids, and here we are with our own
son, and when our son was around15, 16, everything with him is
artificial.
How he grows, everything abouthis body is because of modern
medicine.
If he stops taking his medicine, he will not survive.
He lost vision, he's lost somethings, but you know, if you met
(21:22):
him, he's this good looking guyand he's smart, but has a lot
of limitations due to the mentalhealth side of a chronic
illness depression, anxietyliving up to what he should be,
that he's not Very complicatedstuff and he's the first
generation to survive and he's asmall number.
(21:45):
You know, brain tumors inchildren is very rare.
You know, when my husbanddecided to go into oncology I
said no, what if he had a kidwith cancer?
I mean, don't do that.
And he's like no, you don'tunderstand.
We hear about it a lot becausethe cute little bald kid but
it's actually quite rare andthat's where his research was
(22:07):
his most interest.
So I'm like cool, am I to saywhat he should do.
But it came back to haunt me bigtime when they told us our son
had brain tumor.
He's an interesting young man,he's sweet and kind and capable,
but it's been a lot of keepinghim alive, him not wanting to
(22:29):
take his medicine, him wantingto fit in like any teenager.
But it's really hard tounderstand the depth of how he
felt because I don't know howthat feels.
I am not a believer that youhave to have cancer to be
empathetic and caring and allthat, but I didn't know how to
(22:52):
understand some of like just goto school, just get there, just
go and do it or just take yourmedicine.
Lots of periods of time andhe's on a huge cocktail of
medicine, which is amazing he'salive, but a lot of consequences
.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Sounds like there's lots of trauma in there, not
just for him, but for you.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, and I think you get that exactly right
Everybody has somebody in theirfamily who has something.
It doesn't have to be astraumatic as a brain tumor, it
can be anything.
It doesn't just affect thatchild, it affects the entire
family and it infected ourfamily in a very profound way.
He's wedged in between twogirls and it was really hard and
(23:39):
it continues to be really hard,but amazingly they all were so
happy I'm doing this project.
So to go back when our son wasaround 15, I was incredibly
frustrated with the care he wasgetting for his mental health at
Yale Wonderful school.
But you know, hey, they weren'tdoing their job school.
But hey, they weren't doingtheir job.
(24:00):
And I teamed up with my friend,lisa Headley, who was the first
person at HBO to do a film aboutchildren of difference.
She did a film about peoplewith dwarfism.
It was the first time.
Now we have Facebook andTwitter and YouTube and everyone
kind of throws up their stories, but 25 years ago this was
unheard of.
She got very well known in thedocumentary world and did very
(24:24):
well at HBO, and it was aboutdifference.
So 15 years ago we started aonline program for schools
called Difference Diary where wehad very short films like two,
three minutes, about youngadults who deal with chronic
illness on the psychosocial side, and we had a whole educational
(24:44):
platform for this program.
We also paid a lot of attentionto drug companies, who make a
lot of money and save thesekids' lives but don't deal with
them when they become adults.
When our son was 10, he was socute and, oh, poor baby, let me
buy him a present.
I'm like, oh my God, but at 20,nobody was running to our door
(25:07):
and saying, can I help you?
When he wasn't going to school,when he wouldn't participate
with the family, when he wasdepressed, people would throw
their arms up and say, gosh,that's a tough one, I don't know
how to help you.
So these drug companies owe itto these kids who are surviving
now.
So we did a lot of films forthem to show them that they need
to put their money where theirmouth is.
(25:28):
Because I was at Yale, I wasable to back it up with the
research I did.
I showed them that 60% of kidswho have some type of chronic
illness, whether it's asthma,asperger's or cancer, are not as
successful as they should bewhen it comes to relationships,
finishing school and getting ajob, and that's not the way it
(25:52):
should be.
It's because we don't supportthem, but that's how I got into
filmmaking by telling thesestories I think I can kind of
synopsize.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
When you made the 1980 Israeli swim team, you
didn't get to compete becausethere was of the boycott, and so
your team competed at theMaccabee Games of 1982.
Is that correct?
81.
1981.
And that's kind of what youwere trying to recreate, is that
(26:21):
right?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
You said it so beautifully.
So our team in 1980, theIsraeli team was really one of
the first full swim teams forIsrael that we were good, we
were going to the Europeannationals, getting in the top
eight, top 16, at all these biginternational events.
We would have made a presenceat the Olympics.
(26:42):
They would have known, ooh,israel's got some swimmers.
I don't think we would havebeen on the podium, but we would
have been in the semifinals andtwo people would have been in
the finals.
When we were told we couldn'tgo because of the boycott, we
all had to deal with it in ourown way.
But we refocused quickly to the1981 Maccabea Games.
(27:05):
The Maccabea Games started in1932 because Jews couldn't
participate in a lot of sportingevents and they wanted to
recreate similar to the Olympics.
It's exactly like the Olympics,but in Jewish experience, and
they take place every four years, the year after the Olympics.
And they've taken place everysingle year, except two times,
(27:27):
during World War II when theyhad to stop, and it's become the
second largest sporting eventin terms of athletes in the
world.
These are amazing athletes.
I mean Mark Spitz, lennyKrasenberg, ali Reisman.
These are all people who areamazing athletes for America for
the world, all people who areamazing athletes for America,
(27:48):
for the world, have participatedin the Maccabiah Games.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
So what happened to your team in the 1981 Maccabiah
Games?
Tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
So in the 1981 Maccabiah Games our team really
wanted to there show the worldthat we were good, that the
Americans were going to come inand the Australians were going
to come in, but we were going towin and we did.
We just had so much fun.
It was an amazing experienceand it really bonded us in a way
(28:14):
that I think swimmers and Kelly, you might relate to this.
I mean, when you're with a teamfor a long period of time,
there's a bond that is reallystrong and we had this bond not
just from the 1981 team, but westarted traveling in 1977, five
years after the massacre at the1972 Olympics.
(28:39):
We did not travel like Itraveled when I was in America.
We had to travel withbodyguards, we had to travel
with people with guns, we couldnot speak Hebrew loudly, we had
to swim in the outer lanes, wehad to stay separately and it
was scary and unspoken butbonded us together even tighter
(29:03):
and it was very hard for myAmerican team to understand what
it must have felt like America.
You know, swimming for Indianawas also a highlight, but oh,
what fun and freedom we hadgoing to these meets.
Nobody had to check your reelor worry about this or worry
about that.
We were just out and having a Imean so much fun, and not that
(29:28):
we did have fun when we traveled, but we always had this
heaviness about us that issomebody not going to like us
because of where we're comingfrom the film is a reunion of
those swimmers from the 1981Maccabee Games, of the swimmers
from the 1981 Maccabee Games.
So the film started out as Iwanted to get as many members of
(29:50):
the team back as I could andLior was still alive at the time
.
I don't want to give the wholestory away and I also wanted to
give a little history about thegames.
But also it was about my ownstory of swimming.
Why swimming?
I always came back to swimming.
After we did a little bit offilming, we shopped around for
(30:11):
editors and directors and wefound these two guys, the Mark
Mark Levy and Mark Solomon.
They are probably the mostfamous editors and directors for
commercials and Emmy nominatorout in LA and they saw our story
and said we want to be part ofthis and they have been really
(30:33):
the core of helping shape thisstory into a universal story
about how my story, which couldbe anybody's story, found
something important and workedfor them to save them in
difficult times but also gavethem enormous joy.
(30:53):
So it helped me in the goodtimes.
It helped me in the bad times.
It always comes back toswimming.
It has Jewish and Israel theme,obviously because I'm Jewish
and Israeli, but it could havebeen any country that I felt I
was representing when I swam forIndiana.
I represented Indiana, but wereally turned the story into a
(31:16):
much more personal journeythroughout, and how swimming
helped me when my son, when Ithought, you know, I couldn't do
that anymore and now it's shownme that life is full of turns
and twists and we have to takeadvantage of what we can.
And for me, swimming has beenthat place I can go to to help
(31:43):
me, let my anger out, myfrustrations out, to help me,
let my anger out, myfrustrations out.
I used to hit the water really,really hard when I was a kid
because I was so angry that Icouldn't read like my sisters,
or I was misbehaving and mysisters weren't, or all that,
and I had to learn how to swimwith a nicer glide, with feeling
(32:03):
good about it, and I felt thatwhen I got back in the pool,
this time at 60.
I felt like it wasn't out ofanger and frustration.
It started that, but then Ifound my groove again and I felt
like, wow, I can swim, I canswim fast and I can swim and get
out of the water and feel likeI can face my day.
(32:24):
And it's interesting and I'msure you both can relate as
athletes.
I had to take a week off lastweek because I hurt my shoulder
again and they said take a weekoff.
And I'm like, oh God, I don'twant to.
But I did, I followed ordersand I was really not.
I was cranky, I was not in agood mood, I was walking a lot
(32:45):
to do something, I was in painand I thought, what is you know?
And so I got back in the pooltwo days ago and I turned to my
friend and I said, oh my God, Ijust feel so much better
mentally, I just feel so muchbetter.
I still had a little pain in myshoulder, but I didn't care.
I'm like that's what it doesfor me.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Without a doubt, it's an amazing mental health tool.
What was the mindset that gotyou from your initial because
Maria and I always say we wishmore Olympians and really elite
swimmers would swim masters Likethey don't know what they're
missing.
Yeah, they may be burned out,but you don't have to swim a
whole lot to really get a lotout of masters.
(33:29):
What switched you from thisinitial thing that you said,
which is I don't want to go backto swimming unless I can win.
And now you're a master swimmerfor life and maybe do you care
now if you win.
But what was the transitionthere?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
First of all, I could care less if I win or not,
because I didn't know what itwas like.
Master swimming is a team, agroup of people who love what
you love.
I've met people who didn't evenknow how to swim at all until
they were adults and now they'reswimming in the master's
program.
We have a member on our teamwho's 85 years old, who insists
(34:08):
on swimming the 400 and 800because that's the one she loves
and, by God, we wait.
We wait for her to finish andit is just wonderful.
I hit myself thinking why didn'tI?
And I think back and I realizeI was consumed by life, by being
a working mother, by trying tokeep my kids alive, by doing
(34:30):
this, and I felt like I couldn'tdo anything more.
It was the wrong decision, butit was all I knew and I wasn't
surrounded by people who wereinvolved in master swimming.
I felt very isolated duringthose years in master swimming.
I felt very isolated duringthose years.
So when I tried to get our teamback, some said yes, but a lot
(34:58):
said no and I really worked hardtrying to convince them and I'm
not done with most of them.
But the ones that said, yeah,I'm going to do it, You're going
to see it in the film and Iwon't give it all away.
But one of my swimmers, who washe was a very big swimmer
superstar.
He got out of the pool and hewas swimming all along, but not
like racing or anything, and hewas hugging me and he whispered
in my ear and he said you justgave me the best gift of all.
(35:20):
And I thought, my God, we bothlearned our lesson.
But, master swimming, I've donesome races here in America.
It is so much fun.
And so now our team in Israel,we're going to go to Worlds next
year together.
They go together all the time.
(35:41):
I couldn't go this year due tothe film, but I'm going to go
next year.
I'm going to do everything Ican as long as our bodies keep
up.
But yeah, that's the otherthing.
So many people said oh God,you're 60.
No, you're too old.
No, we're not.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I love it Absolutely.
I mean, we were just at MastersNationals last week and a lot
of the interviews that I did.
I asked what are your longrange goals for Masters?
And they're like interviewsthat I did, you know.
I asked what are your longrange goals for masters?
And they're like, I want to belike so and so who's 90.
We had 103 year old.
I said they're a woman, butyeah, it's a gift.
(36:17):
And Rick Walker I don't know ifit was his original, but Rick
Walker is a friend of ours andwhen somebody we've interviewed
and Rick summed it up up thebest, he's the sarasota sharks
coach he said at the end of theday, no one's watching.
You know, like nobody careswhat you do to the me, no one
cares except you watching.
But that's it, it's, it's, it's.
(36:38):
No one cares.
No one really cares if you, ifyou set a world record or if you
get last.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
No one cares exactly, and that was my calming.
With the flip turns, nobodycares, yeah.
And the other thing is divingoff the blocks.
A lot of people are like I'mnot that.
So you get in the water, youstart in the water, nobody cares
.
Everybody is there to have fun,to swim, to feel good.
They're all doing it fordifferent reasons this film has
brought me to.
(37:04):
I've interviewed a lot of oldtime swimmers and one of them is
Skip Ball, with his last name.
He's an old time swimmer Idon't know if he was at the
Nationals, but he's 87 now andhe had to get a pacemaker put in
and he had to take a month off.
Oh my gosh, he was calling meup every day.
I can't do this, I have to getin the water.
And his doctor was like justgive it a, just a few more days.
(37:26):
And finally he got back in andhe's back swimming.
I said I want to be like youand he's amazing.
And my friend Esther, who's 85,open heart surgery, all sorts
of things, doesn't stop her.
Yeah, I think we have to liveour lives and do the things.
And yeah, maybe it takes alittle bit longer to recover
from some of the aches and pains.
(37:47):
Maybe, but who cares?
Ice and heat are my best friend.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
So, Michelle, we love yourpassion.
Before we go to the fun, sprintaround is there anything that
we have not asked you that youwould like to share with our
listeners?
Anything that we have not askedyou that you?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
would like to share with our listeners.
Well, first of all, I'm sograteful and honored to be on
your podcast.
I love both of you, what you'vedone, the books you've written
your own journeys.
Kelly, if I could do the 400 asfast as you, I would love to,
but I would love to swim next toyou and it doesn't matter what
we do I love it that we're bothdistant swimmers.
(38:27):
That's really fun.
No, you know, I think the filmthat we have created is everyone
has an amazing story and thisis just my story and I hope
anybody who watches it will feela part of it.
I want that whoever watches itto feel that they can relate,
whether it's the part ofswimming or the part of it.
I want that whoever watches itto feel that they can relate,
whether it's the part ofswimming or the part of being a
(38:48):
mother, or the part of being asister or fitting in.
That's the passion of why Iwanted to do it.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Wonderful, beautiful.
Well, thank you so much forthis.
We'll say goodbye at the end,but we're now going to have the
fun.
These are one word answers.
Okay, but we're now going tohave the fun.
These are one word answers.
Okay, ready, I'm ready.
Take your mark.
What is your favorite sandwich?
Turkey.
What do you own that you shouldthrow out Old bathing suit?
(39:17):
Scariest animal to youHippopotamus.
What celebrity would you mostlike to meet?
Helen Mirren.
Favorite movie genre Britishcrime shows.
Okay, my last one before Mariatakes over.
What is the hardest swimmingevent in the pool for you?
Speaker 4 (39:38):
800 meters.
Favorite smell Grass.
Do you make your bed everymorning?
Yes, kickboard or no kickboard.
Now, no kickboard.
If you had to listen to onesong for the rest of your life,
what would it be, judy?
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Collins, both sides.
Now Good.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Window or aisle Window Describe your life in
five words.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Fortunate, grateful Interesting.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Challenging Accepting Nice.
Last one words fortunate,grateful, interesting,
challenging, accepting nice thislast one, what?
Word comes to mind when youdive in the water freedom very
nice, lovely, great.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yep, wow, that's it.
That's a great.
I love that.
It's such a good exercise.
You guys are great, great.
I could talk to you all day.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I want to learn more, Thanks.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Michelle.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
You're great, you're an inspiration and that's what
Maria and I get more out of thisthan anyone we do Getting to
talk to amazing people like youand spend some time getting to
know people.
And we always get off theinterviews and we're like, oh,
we feel so great.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
I feel the same way and you know you inspire me too
with what you do and again, I'mjust really grateful that I'm
part of your show and lookforward to you coming and seeing
the film when it's out andbeing inspired, more inspired.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Yes, thanks for our listeners.
We'll put all the information,your website for the film in the
show notes and any other thingsthat you think and that'll
always refresh, and so anybodywho sees your interview can come
back and find where it is andall about it.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, michelle.
What a delight Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Stay tuned for the takeaways.
Want to succeed like a champion?
Five-time Olympic coach BobBowman, coach of Olympic legend
Michael Phelps, says Kelly'sbook Take your Mark Lead is a
powerful addition to yourpersonal improvement library,
and learners from all walks oflife will gain key insights and
enjoy this inspiring book.
(41:43):
Take your Mark Lead debuted asan Amazon number one bestseller
in five categories and isavailable online.
And now the takeaways.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
All right, maria.
What a great interview withMichelle.
Yeah, Cuban pepper, she's justamazing.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
And, yeah, just a really great interview.
So what was your first takeaway?
Yeah, we can all relate towhatever you know to a trauma.
Maybe it's not big T trauma,it's little T trauma, but every
one really and every family hassomething and I think
recognizing that and havingcompassion for that is just a
huge takeaway for me.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yes, yeah, and then you've always taught me, is
giving yourself grace.
You know, I think that wassomething that you taught me
that when really hard thingscome up and that's what she was
talking about, the big T, thelittle T, any trauma, is just
giving yourself some grace, thatwe all do have something to
(43:07):
hear her kind of support it.
When you have chronic illness,you really need to be aware of
the mental health factor, of allof the mental health factors
that go with being chronicallyill.
And you know I was chronicallyill for 13 years where it was
just it became a mental healthissue as much as a real physical
issue.
So I love how that's what gother into filmmaking.
You know that she was doingthese films, these short videos
(43:28):
on chronic illness and mentalhealth, and I think you know,
just to be aware, hey, if I havesomething that's ongoing, even
chronic illness is defined aslonger than three months,
because you know if you get theflu or you break your ankle or
we really need to be aware thatwhen people are chronically ill,
that we need to be addressingtheir mental health.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
That's so true, and it's just making me think of my
mom and dad, who are both, youknow, having chronic illnesses
right now.
You forget that.
I mean you're so interested ingetting over the physical side
that you forget that there'sthis whole other thing and it's
just, as you said, bigger andbadder in a lot of ways than the
physical illness.
That is a beautiful takeaway,kelly.
(44:08):
What was your last takeaway?
Well, it's classic andeverybody I hope everybody
listening to this knows this.
But I love what Michelle saidexercise gets you out of a hole.
It's so true, I mean, I canjust weep thinking about that.
She told the story of not beingable to swim for a week and
then she got back in the water.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
She was just like oh, they don't want you.
Yeah, the surf popped out.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Yeah, but it's true.
Sometimes, when you're in ahole, the last thing you might
want to do is go get in the pool.
Forget to grab your letter.
And you know, one majorlyimportant letter is exercise, no
matter what time of life it isfor you.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Yeah, we talk about that all the time.
And just exercise can bewalking, it can be just standing
up and stretching.
It just depends on what.
You know, how deep the hole isand how you got to get out.
But you got to start with thatfirst step.
The longest journey and my lasttakeaway and there were many,
but mine was I loved it when shesaid why didn't she start
master swimming earlier?
And this is my soapbox yes, itis.
(45:19):
I don't care if you're an eliteOlympian and you can't stand
swimming, get back in there.
You know you don't have to win,you don't have to swim like you
used to do.
Get back in there.
Or if you are kind of a brandnew person who's been thinking
I'm too slow or I'm, you know, Idon't like to be in a bathing
suit or whatever, just do it.
Sometimes, when we think wewant to do something but we're
(45:42):
scared of it or hesitant, if wejust do it, just start that
momentum and do it, that she wasso glad she did it and now she
wishes she had started it wayearlier.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
And she's an evangelist.
Now she's talking to everybodyabout it and I think master
swimming is.
You know we talk about thisevery time, but it is that sport
that you can do until the dayyou die.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
It's maybe the only sport.
Water is very forgiving, so isthe master swimming community.
Yes, all right, maria, anothergreat one in the book.
Love you, kelly.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to theChampions Mojo podcast.
Did you enjoy the show?
We'd be grateful if you wouldleave us a five-star review on
iTunes to help others find us,and we'd also love to hear from
you.
We're on all social mediaplatforms or you can reach us at
championsmojocom.
I had learning disabilities, I had detention
problems, I was all over theplace, but when I got in the
pool it kind of soothed me and Iwas able to take my
frustrations out in the waterand really saved me.
Then and then, as I tell mystory, swimming comes back and
saves me again, and then again,and then again comes back and
(00:26):
saves me again and then againand then again.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to the award-winning Champions Mojo,
hosted by two worldrecord-holding athletes.
Be inspired as you listen toconversations with champions and
now your hosts, kelly Pallasand Maria Parker.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Hello friends, welcome to the Champions Mojo
podcast and, as usual, I amco-hosting with Maria Parker.
Hey, maria.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Hey Kelly, it's good to be here today.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yes, it's great to see you and we have a really
amazing show today, as always.
But our special guest today isMichelle Kuvan Kupfer, a member
of the 1980 Israeli Olympic swimteam, who also swam
collegiately at IndianaUniversity.
In her youth, Michelle swam allover the world and had left
(01:14):
swimming, but recently found herway back.
As she was heading towards her60th birthday, she was feeling
the world was closing in on her.
After several of life'sobstacles, she found herself in
a deep hole.
She turned back to swimming.
She thought maybe if shereassembled her Israeli team to
(01:37):
swim together 40 years later atthe Maccabiah Games in 2022, she
could find herself again.
What else Maria.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Well, that's when she decided to get back in the pool
more seriously and swim at age60 like she had when she was 18,
returning to a lot of work,dedication, aches and pains, but
also deciding to tell the storyof this comeback in a film for
herself and her teammates.
She's producing a documentarycalled Parting the Waters, a
(02:09):
story about belonging, personalstruggles, perseverance and
triumph.
So welcome to Champions Mojo.
We're so glad to have you,michelle.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, I'm really honored to be here and to be
with both of you who I grew upwith, knowing you guys in the
collegiate world.
Certainly Kelly was swimmingand Maria, your accolades in
sport is just amazing, so thankyou for inviting me.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Well, we, yeah, we're excited to hear what your life
has been like since.
You know, being a 1980 Olympianfor Israel.
Can you just take us back tomaybe your days of growing up I
believe it was Palm Beach,florida like how you got into
swimming a little bit and thenwhat obstacles were these that
got you into this hole thatbrought you back to swimming so
I had a really unusual, I thinkunusual.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Everyone has a story and this is just my story.
But I grew up a littledifferently.
My father was a doctor, mymother was a social worker but a
survivor of the Holocaust.
They came to the States andtrying to fit in, my father was
an infectious disease expert andcame to NIH and Miami but was
(03:21):
looking for.
His quote was always I'll havefour kids in five years and I
need to pay for all this.
He saw this ad about a doctorbeing needed on the small island
of Palm Beach, florida, and myparents really didn't know much
about it.
It's a small island that's verywell known for sort of the rich
and famous, but he knew it wasa job and he took it.
(03:45):
So we moved to this littleisland in Florida, not really
knowing much about what it wasall about, except that it was
beautiful.
It was the water, and growingup in Florida you better learn
how to swim real quick becausethere's water all around you.
So my parents were like, threwus in the pool at a really young
age, whether we liked it or not, and I loved it.
(04:08):
I loved it.
I felt free in the water.
I'm in between two sisters andthen I have a younger brother
out of the four of us and I wasreally good at sports, where
they were really good at schooland I wasn't.
So swimming was sort of a havenfor me.
But growing in Palm Beach hadits challenges in and out of the
(04:28):
pool.
I couldn't swim on the localswim team, which was only about
a five minute bike ride away,because they didn't allow Jews
at the time.
So my mother had to drive meoff the island 45 minutes to a
different pool where I wasallowed to swim, the island 45
minutes to a different poolwhere I was allowed to swim.
You know, this was kind ofcrazy to me.
I just couldn't understand it.
(04:49):
It was hard.
I was the only Jewish person onour swim team for a long time
and you know, look, growing upis hard wherever.
But swimming was that placewhere I would go during those
young days of swimming and notbeing able to swim on certain
teams.
But then I was beatingeverybody and they're like ooh,
okay, well, they wanted me ontheir team but I couldn't be on
(05:11):
their team.
So in some ways there was alittle bit of payback to that
team.
What year was that that was?
I started swimming early, likefive, six, but really
competitively around eight, ninein the youth, and then around
10, 11, 12 is when I reallystarted picking up and getting a
(05:31):
little bit more seriously.
And then, probably like anyswimmer, listening, around 12 is
when you sort of make thatdecision Am I going to be really
dedicated to swimming and jointhe AAU teams and swim twice a
day and do all that?
And that happened around 12, 13, when I realized that I was
better than most and I thought,wow, I can find my place here in
(05:56):
this world Because I was reallystuck in between two sisters
who were really smart and justdid really well in school and I
was like I had learningdisabilities, I had detention
problems, I was all over theplace, but when I got in the
pool it kind of soothed me and Iwas able to take my
(06:17):
frustrations out in the waterand really saved me.
Then and then, as I tell mystory, swimming comes back and
saves me again, and then again,and then again.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
So, Maria, I think I'm with you, At least.
Maybe our list starts what year?
Years of your age, but likewhat year was it that you were
excluded for being Jewish?
What year was?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
that.
Yeah, so that was in the early1970s.
So I was born in 1962 and atage eight, nine, 1970, and was
wanting to be on the team, notjust going to swimming.
They had a team for like eight10 year olds, I think the
youngest group was and, man, Iwanted to be on that team and it
was just down the street, Icould ride my bike there and
(07:01):
that was when I first realized,wow, this world is not as pretty
as what I see when I lookoutside the window, at the water
, at the ocean.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I'm sorry that you had to go through that.
Obviously, we know that thetough things we go through
usually make us the best, thehardest deals formed in the
hottest fires.
How did you end up on theIsraeli Olympic team, being a
Floridian?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
My father was very famous in infectious diseases.
He had discovered thefluorescent antibody test for
malaria, and so he was invitedall over the world to give
lectures.
My mother, as a Holocaustsurvivor, never really felt she
fit in in America.
She wanted to be in Israel butdidn't have the opportunity
really to go until my father,who also wanted to go to Israel
(07:48):
and had been for work prior tomeeting my mother.
My father was invited to gogive a lecture in 1970, and my
mother went with him.
And that trip we did not go.
We were young kids.
They left us a call, they wentto Israel and my mother came
back a different person.
It changed their lives forever.
(08:09):
Israel in 1970 then became partof our lives.
The next year we all went toIsrael, and growing up in Palm
Beach had its advantages.
My father was the doctor.
Palm Beach 50 years ago wasreally a winter resort.
People would live there duringthe winter and everyone would
(08:30):
flock to their other homes inthe summer, so it allowed my
father some freedom.
He was also a real character.
He's the doctor you want.
If you called him up and youdidn't feel well and you
happened to be 10,000 miles away, he would say no, no, it's okay
, I'll be there and he would go.
(08:51):
He was doctor, he was a medicaldoctor, he was their
psychiatrist.
He really took care of hispatients.
But it allowed us as a familyto go to Israel for three, four
months a year and then come backfor school.
I couldn't understand why weever left and didn't stay in
(09:11):
Israel.
But my father had to make aliving.
This was his best way of doingit.
So we led this veryschizophrenic life of going back
and forth.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And you went to school there at some point.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I did some schooling there, but most of our schooling
was on the island.
Back then Palm Beach had alittle school and there was no
air conditioning.
School ended like the firstweek of May and my mother would
take us out of school.
I don't know.
It was a different time and wewould study in Israel and do
some stuff.
But my parents weren't so rigidwhen it came to school until
(09:45):
later on in life.
But when I turned around 12, 13,I said to my father I love
being in Israel, it was great,but I can't stop swimming.
My team's practicing like crazyin the summer and I can't not
do that.
He goes, don't worry, we'llfind you a team.
And sure enough I joined thelocal YMCA in Jerusalem, which
is a famous, actually the oldestY in the world Amazing, and
(10:09):
Jerusalem had this great swimteam.
So I joined and was not sowelcomed at first.
Here was this girl coming inand it was good and I was taking
some spots away from othergirls who were there 12 months a
year and I was only there four,sometimes five months a year.
But I loved being there.
(10:31):
I felt much more free there, Ijust loved it and I kind of
brushed it off team would belike what You're swimming in
Israel?
There are no pools there, it'sa desert.
What are you talking about?
And then I'd go back to Israeland they'd be like, no, no, you
(10:51):
just were with your Americanteam and, I'm sure, practicing
much harder than us or gettingmuch more coaching than us which
wasn't true, but it was sort ofa little bit of a battle.
When I was 15, our coach saidto me you know, you're really
good and we're putting togetherthe team for 1980.
(11:12):
And you need to make a decision.
Do you want to swim for Israelor take your chances to make the
American team?
And in my mind it was not anoption.
I loved being in Israel Then.
That was that was my firstchoice.
And so I became an Israelicitizen at age 15.
And from that moment on, anyinternational event, my
allegiance was to Israel.
(11:33):
That continues to this day.
That continues to this day.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
So you're an inspiration for this.
You were in this kind of darkplace and you got back in the
pool and I love that.
You said you trained like youwere 18.
Tell us about that, because ourlisteners a lot of them are
master swimmers.
What does it look like when a60-year-old decides they're
going to go back and train likethey're 18?
What was your training scheduleand what was that like?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Well, I'll fill in the middle pieces after we talk
about this training period,because a lot happened between
the time I stopped competitiveswimming and got back into it.
After I stopped swimmingcompetitively, I really stopped,
but I'm very active andhyperactive and was biking and
walking a lot but wasn'tswimming a lot mainly due to
(12:19):
having three children very small, two with severe medical issues
.
It was a very difficult startof a family.
Years later I got back in thepool, but just sort of to escape
everything, to get my headunder the water and would swim
some laps.
But it wasn't training in anyway until I decided to recreate
(12:42):
this idea to get back into thepool.
And the reason I wanted to doit were two reasons.
I was really not in a goodplace.
My best mate from swimming, lior, who was a national swimmer in
Israel and really the queen ofthe crop she became an announcer
(13:03):
for swimming.
She immediately became a masterof swimming, was one of the
best in the world was diagnosedwith colon cancer and was dying
and our team wanted to motivateher.
And the other was our son,who's a brain tumor survivor.
Yeah, I know, when I read yourbio, maria, I just you know it's
(13:27):
very difficult.
He was diagnosed with a braintumor as a child and it's been a
very, very difficult road.
And as a young adult, he wasliving with us and I was trapped
.
I was trapped with this sweet,sweet young man but trying to
keep him alive and it consumedme.
(13:48):
It was also during COVID and wewere.
It was just even more amped upthan it had been in years past
and I felt like it was eithergoing to be him or me.
I felt like I was really losingmyself and it was really my
husband who said you got to getback in the water.
That's where you go when youdon't feel well.
(14:08):
That's when you go when youneed to think.
That's when you go when youjust need to be creative.
Go, get in the water.
And so I thought oh my God, howam I going to?
I started looking at the timesof master swimmers and Kelly I
mean you and I swim the sameevent.
I'm thinking, oh my God, youknow I can't go and not win.
I held the records in Israel.
(14:29):
It was such a great motivatorfor me and it gave me focus to
say can I do this as a almost 60year old?
Can I get back in the water andreally compete.
I had no idea how intensemaster swimming is, so I had to
really get back and it hurt.
I remember getting in the waterthe first time and I made my
(14:52):
husband come with me because Isaid, oh my God, I need somebody
to say get there, just do it.
And I remember lifting my rightshoulder, which I had injured
years prior, and thinking, no,this isn't going to work, I
can't even do a full thing.
I've always been in shape.
I'm an athlete but not at thatpoint, and it took every day
just kind of saying no, I can doit.
(15:15):
A lot of ice, a lot of heat, alot of physical therapy, really
a lot of motivation for myhusband, gary.
But the truth is there was somuch deep inside of me that felt
like this is my way out.
Maybe, maybe I can save myselfagain.
The swimming saved me so manytimes.
I thought this is a big one,this is a big ass.
(15:38):
I'm 60.
I want to swim in this big raceagainst swimmers who are like
competing all the time.
But I needed something to saveme because I felt like I was
being really sucked down tryingto keep our son alive.
My best friend is dying.
I felt like I was sitting atthe bottom of the pool and not
(15:59):
seeing what I typically wouldsee when I was young looking up
at the bubbles and seeing thelight.
I was feeling like I was justseeing darkness and I needed to
recreate that light again.
So it was hard.
It took a lot of getting in thepool, hurting but also feeling
like every day was a little bitbetter and a little bit faster.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
What did that look like?
You know, like was it threedays a week, five days a week,
1,000, 5,000?
.
What does that look like whenan Olympic swimmer comes back
and I do want to say you don'thave to go to Masters and win,
that's just your.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You are still right and I have a fun story to say
why I said that.
But getting back into swimmingfor me was very different than
when I was a swimmer in my youth, because I was a distance
swimmer and back then it wasabout yardage.
You know, I'd get up at 430 andswim two hours and go back and
swim two hours and it was likeyou know as many yards as you
(17:01):
can get in or meters you can getin.
That was the goal and I thought, well, first of all, there's no
way I can do that.
I don't want to spend fourhours a day in the pool and also
I think swimming has evolvedthat you don't need to do as
much yardage.
So I got that, I sort of wrotethat in my head and I don't have
to do that type of amount.
So I started about three days aweek just trying to get in
(17:23):
about a thousand, just gettingcomfortable in the water.
Again I had a real problem,though I couldn't flip.
It wasn't because I couldn'tactually do the flip, but I
would get so dizzy that it wouldruin my, not just that moment,
it would ruin like my whole day.
I had terrible vertigo and Iwent to the ear doctor and he
(17:43):
says and he kind of laughed atme and he says you know, you're
almost 60.
I mean, most women your age, alot of women your age, have this
problem where they get dizzymore easily.
And I said okay, well, what canI do to fix it?
And he goes well, you can trythis, you can try that.
(18:08):
I tried everything and it justdidn't work.
So I got really good at turningfast but I felt like it was
slowing me down, and I think itdoes still slow me down.
But that always was in my headthat I'm not flipping.
But I did start around threedays a week and then within a
few months I went to four days aweek, around 2000 yards, but I
was avoiding looking at theclock and that was my own psyche
, like I didn't want to look atthe clock and think am I really
(18:29):
slow or am I where I should be?
And I just didn't for a longtime.
Then, slowly, I decided Ibetter look at the clock and see
where I'm at and I startedpushing.
But I have not gone over 3,000meters, but I do swim four to
five times a week, always in themorning.
(18:50):
If I swim late, I don't know,maybe it's my age then.
I can't sleep all night, so I'dswim in the morning.
I definitely needed to go tophysical therapy, which was
something I never needed as ayouth.
That was new to me my back, myshoulders, I would get cramps in
my feet.
I had to learn how to reallydrink a lot during practice,
(19:11):
keep my electrolytes up, which Iwas not used to as a youth.
It was a different way oftraining, but it wasn't
unmanageable.
It felt really manageable and Imet a lot of really amazing
people in the master's worldthat.
It just opened my eyes up and Ikind of said, god, why wasn't I
(19:33):
doing this all along?
I felt like I missed out, likewhy did I stop?
And this was like a reawakening.
And now one of the biggestgifts I've gotten out of this
whole thing is that I'm a masterswimmer and I love it.
Oh, that's beautiful.
How's your son?
Oh, so I'm.
So you know, I read your bio,maria, and I know you had a
(19:55):
sister who died of brain cancerand it's been a hard road.
My husband happens to be apediatric hematologist,
oncologist, so you can imaginewhen we go in and they tell us
our son has a brain tumor and myhusband's one of the doctors on
the team.
You know it's like not right.
He's alive because of modernmedicine, which is amazing that
(20:17):
he's alive.
He's alive and he can stayalive if he is compliant with
his medical regimen, which is,as you know, with children,
especially when they enteradolescence and young adulthood.
Being compliant is very hard,and chronic illness and mental
health go hand in hand.
(20:37):
I studied in school.
I was a behavioral therapist.
I studied in school, I was abehavioral therapist and before
our son got sick, my expertisewas working with young adults
and adolescents with chronicillness.
Oh, wow, go figure.
Yeah, married to an oncologist.
Everyone thought we were thislike dream team.
Here we are, and we were atYale.
I was giving all these lecturesabout the sake of social issues,
(21:00):
about how to care for your kids, and here we are with our own
son, and when our son was around15, 16, everything with him is
artificial.
How he grows, everything abouthis body is because of modern
medicine.
If he stops taking his medicine, he will not survive.
He lost vision, he's lost somethings, but you know, if you met
(21:22):
him, he's this good looking guyand he's smart, but has a lot
of limitations due to the mentalhealth side of a chronic
illness depression, anxietyliving up to what he should be,
that he's not Very complicatedstuff and he's the first
generation to survive and he's asmall number.
(21:45):
You know, brain tumors inchildren is very rare.
You know, when my husbanddecided to go into oncology I
said no, what if he had a kidwith cancer?
I mean, don't do that.
And he's like no, you don'tunderstand.
We hear about it a lot becausethe cute little bald kid but
it's actually quite rare andthat's where his research was
(22:07):
his most interest.
So I'm like cool, am I to saywhat he should do.
But it came back to haunt me bigtime when they told us our son
had brain tumor.
He's an interesting young man,he's sweet and kind and capable,
but it's been a lot of keepinghim alive, him not wanting to
(22:29):
take his medicine, him wantingto fit in like any teenager.
But it's really hard tounderstand the depth of how he
felt because I don't know howthat feels.
I am not a believer that youhave to have cancer to be
empathetic and caring and allthat, but I didn't know how to
(22:52):
understand some of like just goto school, just get there, just
go and do it or just take yourmedicine.
Lots of periods of time andhe's on a huge cocktail of
medicine, which is amazing he'salive, but a lot of consequences
.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Sounds like there's lots of trauma in there, not
just for him, but for you.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, and I think you get that exactly right
Everybody has somebody in theirfamily who has something.
It doesn't have to be astraumatic as a brain tumor, it
can be anything.
It doesn't just affect thatchild, it affects the entire
family and it infected ourfamily in a very profound way.
He's wedged in between twogirls and it was really hard and
(23:39):
it continues to be really hard,but amazingly they all were so
happy I'm doing this project.
So to go back when our son wasaround 15, I was incredibly
frustrated with the care he wasgetting for his mental health at
Yale Wonderful school.
But you know, hey, they weren'tdoing their job school.
But hey, they weren't doingtheir job.
(24:00):
And I teamed up with my friend,lisa Headley, who was the first
person at HBO to do a film aboutchildren of difference.
She did a film about peoplewith dwarfism.
It was the first time.
Now we have Facebook andTwitter and YouTube and everyone
kind of throws up their stories, but 25 years ago this was
unheard of.
She got very well known in thedocumentary world and did very
(24:24):
well at HBO, and it was aboutdifference.
So 15 years ago we started aonline program for schools
called Difference Diary where wehad very short films like two,
three minutes, about youngadults who deal with chronic
illness on the psychosocial side, and we had a whole educational
(24:44):
platform for this program.
We also paid a lot of attentionto drug companies, who make a
lot of money and save thesekids' lives but don't deal with
them when they become adults.
When our son was 10, he was socute and, oh, poor baby, let me
buy him a present.
I'm like, oh my God, but at 20,nobody was running to our door
(25:07):
and saying, can I help you?
When he wasn't going to school,when he wouldn't participate
with the family, when he wasdepressed, people would throw
their arms up and say, gosh,that's a tough one, I don't know
how to help you.
So these drug companies owe itto these kids who are surviving
now.
So we did a lot of films forthem to show them that they need
to put their money where theirmouth is.
(25:28):
Because I was at Yale, I wasable to back it up with the
research I did.
I showed them that 60% of kidswho have some type of chronic
illness, whether it's asthma,asperger's or cancer, are not as
successful as they should bewhen it comes to relationships,
finishing school and getting ajob, and that's not the way it
(25:52):
should be.
It's because we don't supportthem, but that's how I got into
filmmaking by telling thesestories I think I can kind of
synopsize.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
When you made the 1980 Israeli swim team, you
didn't get to compete becausethere was of the boycott, and so
your team competed at theMaccabee Games of 1982.
Is that correct?
81.
1981.
And that's kind of what youwere trying to recreate, is that
(26:21):
right?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
You said it so beautifully.
So our team in 1980, theIsraeli team was really one of
the first full swim teams forIsrael that we were good, we
were going to the Europeannationals, getting in the top
eight, top 16, at all these biginternational events.
We would have made a presenceat the Olympics.
(26:42):
They would have known, ooh,israel's got some swimmers.
I don't think we would havebeen on the podium, but we would
have been in the semifinals andtwo people would have been in
the finals.
When we were told we couldn'tgo because of the boycott, we
all had to deal with it in ourown way.
But we refocused quickly to the1981 Maccabea Games.
(27:05):
The Maccabea Games started in1932 because Jews couldn't
participate in a lot of sportingevents and they wanted to
recreate similar to the Olympics.
It's exactly like the Olympics,but in Jewish experience, and
they take place every four years, the year after the Olympics.
And they've taken place everysingle year, except two times,
(27:27):
during World War II when theyhad to stop, and it's become the
second largest sporting eventin terms of athletes in the
world.
These are amazing athletes.
I mean Mark Spitz, lennyKrasenberg, ali Reisman.
These are all people who areamazing athletes for America for
the world, all people who areamazing athletes for America,
(27:48):
for the world, have participatedin the Maccabiah Games.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
So what happened to your team in the 1981 Maccabiah
Games?
Tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
So in the 1981 Maccabiah Games our team really
wanted to there show the worldthat we were good, that the
Americans were going to come inand the Australians were going
to come in, but we were going towin and we did.
We just had so much fun.
It was an amazing experienceand it really bonded us in a way
(28:14):
that I think swimmers and Kelly, you might relate to this.
I mean, when you're with a teamfor a long period of time,
there's a bond that is reallystrong and we had this bond not
just from the 1981 team, but westarted traveling in 1977, five
years after the massacre at the1972 Olympics.
(28:39):
We did not travel like Itraveled when I was in America.
We had to travel withbodyguards, we had to travel
with people with guns, we couldnot speak Hebrew loudly, we had
to swim in the outer lanes, wehad to stay separately and it
was scary and unspoken butbonded us together even tighter
(29:03):
and it was very hard for myAmerican team to understand what
it must have felt like America.
You know, swimming for Indianawas also a highlight, but oh,
what fun and freedom we hadgoing to these meets.
Nobody had to check your reelor worry about this or worry
about that.
We were just out and having a Imean so much fun, and not that
(29:28):
we did have fun when we traveled, but we always had this
heaviness about us that issomebody not going to like us
because of where we're comingfrom the film is a reunion of
those swimmers from the 1981Maccabee Games, of the swimmers
from the 1981 Maccabee Games.
So the film started out as Iwanted to get as many members of
(29:50):
the team back as I could andLior was still alive at the time
.
I don't want to give the wholestory away and I also wanted to
give a little history about thegames.
But also it was about my ownstory of swimming.
Why swimming?
I always came back to swimming.
After we did a little bit offilming, we shopped around for
(30:11):
editors and directors and wefound these two guys, the Mark
Mark Levy and Mark Solomon.
They are probably the mostfamous editors and directors for
commercials and Emmy nominatorout in LA and they saw our story
and said we want to be part ofthis and they have been really
(30:33):
the core of helping shape thisstory into a universal story
about how my story, which couldbe anybody's story, found
something important and workedfor them to save them in
difficult times but also gavethem enormous joy.
(30:53):
So it helped me in the goodtimes.
It helped me in the bad times.
It always comes back toswimming.
It has Jewish and Israel theme,obviously because I'm Jewish
and Israeli, but it could havebeen any country that I felt I
was representing when I swam forIndiana.
I represented Indiana, but wereally turned the story into a
(31:16):
much more personal journeythroughout, and how swimming
helped me when my son, when Ithought, you know, I couldn't do
that anymore and now it's shownme that life is full of turns
and twists and we have to takeadvantage of what we can.
And for me, swimming has beenthat place I can go to to help
(31:43):
me, let my anger out, myfrustrations out, to help me,
let my anger out, myfrustrations out.
I used to hit the water really,really hard when I was a kid
because I was so angry that Icouldn't read like my sisters,
or I was misbehaving and mysisters weren't, or all that,
and I had to learn how to swimwith a nicer glide, with feeling
(32:03):
good about it, and I felt thatwhen I got back in the pool,
this time at 60.
I felt like it wasn't out ofanger and frustration.
It started that, but then Ifound my groove again and I felt
like, wow, I can swim, I canswim fast and I can swim and get
out of the water and feel likeI can face my day.
(32:24):
And it's interesting and I'msure you both can relate as
athletes.
I had to take a week off lastweek because I hurt my shoulder
again and they said take a weekoff.
And I'm like, oh God, I don'twant to.
But I did, I followed ordersand I was really not.
I was cranky, I was not in agood mood, I was walking a lot
(32:45):
to do something, I was in painand I thought, what is you know?
And so I got back in the pooltwo days ago and I turned to my
friend and I said, oh my God, Ijust feel so much better
mentally, I just feel so muchbetter.
I still had a little pain in myshoulder, but I didn't care.
I'm like that's what it doesfor me.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Without a doubt, it's an amazing mental health tool.
What was the mindset that gotyou from your initial because
Maria and I always say we wishmore Olympians and really elite
swimmers would swim masters Likethey don't know what they're
missing.
Yeah, they may be burned out,but you don't have to swim a
whole lot to really get a lotout of masters.
(33:29):
What switched you from thisinitial thing that you said,
which is I don't want to go backto swimming unless I can win.
And now you're a master swimmerfor life and maybe do you care
now if you win.
But what was the transitionthere?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
First of all, I could care less if I win or not,
because I didn't know what itwas like.
Master swimming is a team, agroup of people who love what
you love.
I've met people who didn't evenknow how to swim at all until
they were adults and now they'reswimming in the master's
program.
We have a member on our teamwho's 85 years old, who insists
(34:08):
on swimming the 400 and 800because that's the one she loves
and, by God, we wait.
We wait for her to finish andit is just wonderful.
I hit myself thinking why didn'tI?
And I think back and I realizeI was consumed by life, by being
a working mother, by trying tokeep my kids alive, by doing
(34:30):
this, and I felt like I couldn'tdo anything more.
It was the wrong decision, butit was all I knew and I wasn't
surrounded by people who wereinvolved in master swimming.
I felt very isolated duringthose years in master swimming.
I felt very isolated duringthose years.
So when I tried to get our teamback, some said yes, but a lot
(34:58):
said no and I really worked hardtrying to convince them and I'm
not done with most of them.
But the ones that said, yeah,I'm going to do it, You're going
to see it in the film and Iwon't give it all away.
But one of my swimmers, who washe was a very big swimmer
superstar.
He got out of the pool and hewas swimming all along, but not
like racing or anything, and hewas hugging me and he whispered
in my ear and he said you justgave me the best gift of all.
(35:20):
And I thought, my God, we bothlearned our lesson.
But, master swimming, I've donesome races here in America.
It is so much fun.
And so now our team in Israel,we're going to go to Worlds next
year together.
They go together all the time.
(35:41):
I couldn't go this year due tothe film, but I'm going to go
next year.
I'm going to do everything Ican as long as our bodies keep
up.
But yeah, that's the otherthing.
So many people said oh God,you're 60.
No, you're too old.
No, we're not.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I love it Absolutely.
I mean, we were just at MastersNationals last week and a lot
of the interviews that I did.
I asked what are your longrange goals for Masters?
And they're like interviewsthat I did, you know.
I asked what are your longrange goals for masters?
And they're like, I want to belike so and so who's 90.
We had 103 year old.
I said they're a woman, butyeah, it's a gift.
(36:17):
And Rick Walker I don't know ifit was his original, but Rick
Walker is a friend of ours andwhen somebody we've interviewed
and Rick summed it up up thebest, he's the sarasota sharks
coach he said at the end of theday, no one's watching.
You know, like nobody careswhat you do to the me, no one
cares except you watching.
But that's it, it's, it's, it's.
(36:38):
No one cares.
No one really cares if you, ifyou set a world record or if you
get last.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
No one cares exactly, and that was my calming.
With the flip turns, nobodycares, yeah.
And the other thing is divingoff the blocks.
A lot of people are like I'mnot that.
So you get in the water, youstart in the water, nobody cares
.
Everybody is there to have fun,to swim, to feel good.
They're all doing it fordifferent reasons this film has
brought me to.
(37:04):
I've interviewed a lot of oldtime swimmers and one of them is
Skip Ball, with his last name.
He's an old time swimmer Idon't know if he was at the
Nationals, but he's 87 now andhe had to get a pacemaker put in
and he had to take a month off.
Oh my gosh, he was calling meup every day.
I can't do this, I have to getin the water.
And his doctor was like justgive it a, just a few more days.
(37:26):
And finally he got back in andhe's back swimming.
I said I want to be like youand he's amazing.
And my friend Esther, who's 85,open heart surgery, all sorts
of things, doesn't stop her.
Yeah, I think we have to liveour lives and do the things.
And yeah, maybe it takes alittle bit longer to recover
from some of the aches and pains.
(37:47):
Maybe, but who cares?
Ice and heat are my best friend.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
So, Michelle, we love yourpassion.
Before we go to the fun, sprintaround is there anything that
we have not asked you that youwould like to share with our
listeners?
Anything that we have not askedyou that you?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
would like to share with our listeners.
Well, first of all, I'm sograteful and honored to be on
your podcast.
I love both of you, what you'vedone, the books you've written
your own journeys.
Kelly, if I could do the 400 asfast as you, I would love to,
but I would love to swim next toyou and it doesn't matter what
we do I love it that we're bothdistant swimmers.
(38:27):
That's really fun.
No, you know, I think the filmthat we have created is everyone
has an amazing story and thisis just my story and I hope
anybody who watches it will feela part of it.
I want that whoever watches itto feel that they can relate,
whether it's the part ofswimming or the part of it.
I want that whoever watches itto feel that they can relate,
whether it's the part ofswimming or the part of being a
(38:48):
mother, or the part of being asister or fitting in.
That's the passion of why Iwanted to do it.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Wonderful, beautiful.
Well, thank you so much forthis.
We'll say goodbye at the end,but we're now going to have the
fun.
These are one word answers.
Okay, but we're now going tohave the fun.
These are one word answers.
Okay, ready, I'm ready.
Take your mark.
What is your favorite sandwich?
Turkey.
What do you own that you shouldthrow out Old bathing suit?
(39:17):
Scariest animal to youHippopotamus.
What celebrity would you mostlike to meet?
Helen Mirren.
Favorite movie genre Britishcrime shows.
Okay, my last one before Mariatakes over.
What is the hardest swimmingevent in the pool for you?
Speaker 4 (39:38):
800 meters.
Favorite smell Grass.
Do you make your bed everymorning?
Yes, kickboard or no kickboard.
Now, no kickboard.
If you had to listen to onesong for the rest of your life,
what would it be, judy?
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Collins, both sides.
Now Good.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Window or aisle Window Describe your life in
five words.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Fortunate, grateful Interesting.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
Challenging Accepting Nice.
Last one words fortunate,grateful, interesting,
challenging, accepting nice thislast one, what?
Word comes to mind when youdive in the water freedom very
nice, lovely, great.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yep, wow, that's it.
That's a great.
I love that.
It's such a good exercise.
You guys are great, great.
I could talk to you all day.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I want to learn more, Thanks.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Michelle.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
You're great, you're an inspiration and that's what
Maria and I get more out of thisthan anyone we do Getting to
talk to amazing people like youand spend some time getting to
know people.
And we always get off theinterviews and we're like, oh,
we feel so great.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
I feel the same way and you know you inspire me too
with what you do and again, I'mjust really grateful that I'm
part of your show and lookforward to you coming and seeing
the film when it's out andbeing inspired, more inspired.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Yes, thanks for our listeners.
We'll put all the information,your website for the film in the
show notes and any other thingsthat you think and that'll
always refresh, and so anybodywho sees your interview can come
back and find where it is andall about it.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, michelle.
What a delight Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Stay tuned for the takeaways.
Want to succeed like a champion?
Five-time Olympic coach BobBowman, coach of Olympic legend
Michael Phelps, says Kelly'sbook Take your Mark Lead is a
powerful addition to yourpersonal improvement library,
and learners from all walks oflife will gain key insights and
enjoy this inspiring book.
(41:43):
Take your Mark Lead debuted asan Amazon number one bestseller
in five categories and isavailable online.
And now the takeaways.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
All right, maria.
What a great interview withMichelle.
Yeah, Cuban pepper, she's justamazing.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
And, yeah, just a really great interview.
So what was your first takeaway?
Yeah, we can all relate towhatever you know to a trauma.
Maybe it's not big T trauma,it's little T trauma, but every
one really and every family hassomething and I think
recognizing that and havingcompassion for that is just a
huge takeaway for me.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yes, yeah, and then you've always taught me, is
giving yourself grace.
You know, I think that wassomething that you taught me
that when really hard thingscome up and that's what she was
talking about, the big T, thelittle T, any trauma, is just
giving yourself some grace, thatwe all do have something to
(43:07):
hear her kind of support it.
When you have chronic illness,you really need to be aware of
the mental health factor, of allof the mental health factors
that go with being chronicallyill.
And you know I was chronicallyill for 13 years where it was
just it became a mental healthissue as much as a real physical
issue.
So I love how that's what gother into filmmaking.
You know that she was doingthese films, these short videos
(43:28):
on chronic illness and mentalhealth, and I think you know,
just to be aware, hey, if I havesomething that's ongoing, even
chronic illness is defined aslonger than three months,
because you know if you get theflu or you break your ankle or
we really need to be aware thatwhen people are chronically ill,
that we need to be addressingtheir mental health.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
That's so true, and it's just making me think of my
mom and dad, who are both, youknow, having chronic illnesses
right now.
You forget that.
I mean you're so interested ingetting over the physical side
that you forget that there'sthis whole other thing and it's
just, as you said, bigger andbadder in a lot of ways than the
physical illness.
That is a beautiful takeaway,kelly.
(44:08):
What was your last takeaway?
Well, it's classic andeverybody I hope everybody
listening to this knows this.
But I love what Michelle saidexercise gets you out of a hole.
It's so true, I mean, I canjust weep thinking about that.
She told the story of not beingable to swim for a week and
then she got back in the water.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
She was just like oh, they don't want you.
Yeah, the surf popped out.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Yeah, but it's true.
Sometimes, when you're in ahole, the last thing you might
want to do is go get in the pool.
Forget to grab your letter.
And you know, one majorlyimportant letter is exercise, no
matter what time of life it isfor you.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Yeah, we talk about that all the time.
And just exercise can bewalking, it can be just standing
up and stretching.
It just depends on what.
You know, how deep the hole isand how you got to get out.
But you got to start with thatfirst step.
The longest journey and my lasttakeaway and there were many,
but mine was I loved it when shesaid why didn't she start
master swimming earlier?
And this is my soapbox yes, itis.
(45:19):
I don't care if you're an eliteOlympian and you can't stand
swimming, get back in there.
You know you don't have to win,you don't have to swim like you
used to do.
Get back in there.
Or if you are kind of a brandnew person who's been thinking
I'm too slow or I'm, you know, Idon't like to be in a bathing
suit or whatever, just do it.
Sometimes, when we think wewant to do something but we're
(45:42):
scared of it or hesitant, if wejust do it, just start that
momentum and do it, that she wasso glad she did it and now she
wishes she had started it wayearlier.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
And she's an evangelist.
Now she's talking to everybodyabout it and I think master
swimming is.
You know we talk about thisevery time, but it is that sport
that you can do until the dayyou die.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
It's maybe the only sport.
Water is very forgiving, so isthe master swimming community.
Yes, all right, maria, anothergreat one in the book.
Love you, kelly.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to theChampions Mojo podcast.
Did you enjoy the show?
We'd be grateful if you wouldleave us a five-star review on
iTunes to help others find us,and we'd also love to hear from
you.
We're on all social mediaplatforms or you can reach us at
championsmojocom.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!