April 11, 2025 • 38 mins
Field Yates, Fantasy Football and NFL Draft analyst for ESPN, joins Andrew Siciliano and Jason Gibbs to talk everything draft. Also the guys talk the various draft scenarios that could play out this year. #BPA
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've had Travis Hunter slightly ahead of Abdul Carter throughout
the process as my number one pick. But it's really
it's it's like a fifty two to forty eight type
of advantage, right. This is one in one a however
you want to categorize it. The best way to prevent
yourself from drafting poorly is by drafting for value and
not for need.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
When you draft for need, it typically.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Leads to more errors than drafting for value and trusting
your board.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Re easy, friends. Pro day season is over, the hey
is almost in the proverbial barn, and with that we
welcome you to the best podcast available. We thank you
for being here, for liking, for subscribing, for sharing. We're
here to share as well. That is Jason Gibbs Gibbe.
(00:44):
My name is Andrew Siciliano, and we are now Gibbe
inside mercifully of three weeks almost a two by the
time this posts, the twenty twenty five NFL Draft, thank God,
are done.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
We've got thirty day visits or thirty visits going on.
They've adjusted my lunch schedule for the week, which puts
me in a not so great mood, like I can't
eat breakfast at nine and then expect me to eat
lunch between eleven and twelve. But that's what we're doing
because we have to have the cafe must be cleared
out for the visitors to enjoy between twelve and two.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Where we're recording this on Tuesday, I am in the
home offices. I have to go back to NFL Network
today for the very first time to like do this
seminar with former players and current players that want to
get into broadcasting. It's actually a fun event. Excited for it.
It's called Broadcast boot Camp. But you are back at
the Cross Country Mortgage campus obviously, and it's thirty visit times.
(01:44):
So each team has allowed thirty visits officially flying in prospects.
That doesn't include the local visits. The Browns could potentially,
for example, bring in a certain bowling green tight end
or any Ohio State player.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Those are local visits.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It's so can you tell us who is there, Gibbe,
who have you seen in the cafeteria.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Or is that I'm not allowed to be in the
cafe at that point in time, But I mean the
reports are out there and I think I saw him yesterday.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Mason Graham was in the building is a very large
human vata defensive tackle from that school up north, YEP.
Exactly a lot of tight ends. You know.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Fannon was on the reports that he was here.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Arroyo is supposed to be here.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I believe on Tuesday Mason Taylor, the son of Jason,
scheduled a visit per reports.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I think the son of Jason, nephew of Zach. Two
Hall of famers at the dinner table at Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Gid y up, let's make it a third. I'm good
with all of that. Supposedly, quin Shawn Judkins has been here.
Isaiah Bond, Texas's speedy wide receiver, I think yesterday was
in the building. So it's there's a lot of guys
(03:04):
coming through and a lot of get to know you
is and.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
The whole car wash.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
At the facility where you meet with the GM, you
meet with a coach, you meet with a position coach,
you meet with a coordinator, you meet with the scouts,
you meet with the assistant GMS, a little tour of
the facility, and you know, whatever else needs to happen.
And you're mixing all that in with you know, potentially
private workouts and now that you're done with the pro days.
(03:34):
It's you're running out of time as you're getting set here.
And I would assume that that draft board, that final,
you know, top fifty is starting to lock into.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Place here with two weeks to go, two.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Weeks to go, and I'm excited to get back in
the building with you guys at the Cross Country Mortgage
Campus on Draft night on the twenty fourth and throughout
the weekend.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Here of a pod coming up next week, Daniel.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Jerem I expected to join us coming up on this show.
Field Yates from ESPN will be here shortly before we
get to that. And Field was at Colorado Pro Day.
That was the last major pro day. I actually think
it was the last pro day. Colorado didn't call it
a pro day. They called it an.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
NFL showcase, an NFL showcase.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And all the cameras were there and Travis Hunter worked
out without gloves. Wasn't supposed to do anything, but he
went out there and caught passes. We'll get Fields observations
from on the field, but from what we all saw.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
On TV, the guy looked amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I mean the way he moves, the way he comes
out of breaks, the way he caught the ball without
those gloves effortlessly in front of him. Not a body catcher,
he's a hands catcher. He looks like the real deal.
And honestly, my gut more and more tells me that
the Browns are going to take Travis Hunter. I don't
know that Andy, Mary and Glenn and Kat and everyone
(05:00):
top to otto have done an amazing job of not
telling anyone anything at all. That is just my gut,
and a lot of fans ask, well, how's that gonna look?
Andrew Barry says he's a wide receiver. Other teams say
he's a corner. Ryan Clark was an a SPN and
said he's a Hall of Fame defensive player. Like, why
are we gonna play them a wide receiver. Let's pump
(05:22):
the brakes and wait till he gets here. If he
does get here, But let me just say this, as
you guys point out on CBD all the time, and
as my phone is constantly buzzing even as we record
this from Nathan Zegur about needing weapons, the Browns have
the fewest point score to the NFL a year ago.
And there is a world that exists where you put
him at wide receiver and then you put him in
on dime situations, you know, when you go to six DB's,
(05:44):
or maybe he just put him in only on third
down and you mix him in defensively. It's not an
issue of we don't want to have to deal with
this two way thing. It's he's that special gibbie. You
take him and then you figure it out. Now you
have to have a plan, okay, but it makes all
(06:05):
the sense in the world that you can address. I
don't want to call corner necessarily a position of me.
You have three good corners, Greg Newsom going into his
fifth year, though on that rookie contract, mj Emerson or
in news whom you have to extend one of them.
They had issues with depth last year with some of
the young guys playing inside, especially late Travis Hunter. Maybe
not an inside guy as an outside guy. But regardless,
(06:27):
you're a better team on both sides of the ball
if you hand in that Travis Hunter card. I'm not
saying it's done. I'm just saying fans start to wrap
your head around that possibility.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think you know that there seems
to be and maybe the machine inside this building here
at the Cross Country Mortgage Campus is straying us all
in a different direction from quarterback at number two. It
appears that that seems to be the case. Every mock
draft really doesn't have us taking Shad or Sanders. They
(06:57):
have us taking either abdual Carter or Travis Hunter. Sign
me up for Travis Hunter.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I think that's field Yates said it. It's his number
one player on his board. So go get the number
one player in the draft. If you can't get the
number one quarterback in the draft, or if there's a
big drop off and you believe in your building that
you know, maybe we get the quarterback later on. You know,
(07:26):
Jimmy Haslam said it last week at the owners meetings.
This is something that might take two years. It might
be a two year process to get the guy we
want under center. If that's the case, go get the
best player in the draft. The best player in the draft,
by many accounts, is Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter A one
B to A one A.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
I've seen all these scenarios here.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Well, let's say the Browns go Hunter or Carter at two,
and then they trade back in to the first round
to potentially get a quarterback, and the pushback I often
get as well.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
If you like the quarterbacks, just take him at two.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I understand that question, but I'll just throw it at this.
Would you rather have Travis Hunter an Abdul Carter at
two and then you give up something maybe a three,
right to jump back into the bottom of the second
round or the bottom of the first round. You still
have your two. We have to give up what you
(08:25):
have to give up your two, but you would still
have a three. There are trades that make sense. But
if you are not convicted that the quarterbacks there are
worthy of the number two pick, you have to go
somewhere else. Because it's one thing. It's one thing to
(08:47):
get a Travis Hunter, an Abdul Carter or an Ashon
Gente or Will Campbell or any player wrong at two.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
At one of those positions.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It's another thing to get the quarterback wrong at number
two because the time and the resources organizationally that you
have to put into getting that number two pick ready
and onto the field, and then the time that you
have to give him, the patience you have to show
(09:16):
to see if it truly does work, that sets organizations back.
So unless you're convicted that the quarterback is there at two. Listen,
I absolutely support passing on quarterback at two.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Well, and I would say this, I don't want to
slight Abdul Carter because he's an amazing talent. There's no
question he's talented. I just look at this football team
from a need standpoint, and Field might debate that later
on in our interview, but I just I look at
it and go, I've got a lot of defensive ends.
(09:49):
I've got some really good young, up and coming edge
rushers that I think deserve a chance to move up
and play for that role opposite Miles Garrett.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Alex Wright was playing really well when he got here
at Isaiah McGuire.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Look at his PFF grade.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Now we haven't seen it in sack production, but in
stopping the run, played really really well.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Last year exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And I just I look at it as I might
need some more depth at corner at some point. I
don't think you're gonna have enough corners given a seventeen
game schedule. I also know that your wide receiver room
needs another body, if not two bodies. Yeah, So like,
go get the guy that can play both of those.
(10:31):
Let's have a little fun.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Imagine quarterback to be Dame later QBTBD QBTBD with David Ajoku,
Jerry Judy, Cedric Tillman, Travis Hunter. I'd like to see that.
And it's also RBTBD Jerome Ford right now. And Jerome Ford,
(10:57):
by the way, look at his explosives last year. If
you look at the number of fifty sixty yard runs
that Jerome Ford had, it may surprise you look it
up because it was among the.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Top running backs in the league.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So when I say RBTBD, I know everyone has a
running back circle at thirty three for the Browns, that
may not happen. Jerome Ford is going to get a
lot of touches this year, and yes, there will be
a running back at it in the draft end.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Maybe Nick Chubb comes back as well.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I'm also the one guy Nathan Nathan is with me
on this one that loves to see Pierre Strong get
in space, right and he's got juice. We didn't see
enough of them last year. I'm gonna pound the table
to see more Pierre Strong but healthy.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
This is just me. This is just me, all right.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
You've been teasing Field Yates and he has been working
around the clock. It is draft s z N whatever
the heck that means, but we are very fortunate that
he has taken the time. Today we have the guy
that's gonna be an ABC on Thursday and Friday Green
Bay Coverage, Ron ESPN for the Draft, and then Saturday
(12:01):
at the desk all day long Field Yates. Welcome to
the best podcast available. I didn't name it, but sometimes
I feel like the name is app How are you man?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I would agree with that assessment of the name, and
I'm doing great. It's good to catch up with you, guys.
I saw Andrew for a while in Indianapolis at the Combine.
Always good to catch up and it's an exciting time
right now for the Cleveland Browns. You don't love the
process of getting to the number two pick in the draft,
but it's kind of fun to imagine the possibilities at
number two, especially in this year's draft class.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Yeah, I am over the process. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I'm with Andrew Berry who said back in Mobile, I
have no patience. Let's get here. But we're not there,
at least not yet. But we are inside of three weeks.
You were at Colorado PRODA and Boulder. We'll get to
Travis Hunter in a second, but let's do the quarterback first. Here,
what did you see from shud Or Sanders? And I
guess maybe bigger picture here field, did you see a
(12:54):
guy that I hate to use the word worthy, because
I'm not questioning the young man's personal value or worth.
I like the kid, but did you see a guy
worthy of the number two overall pick.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I went into the pro day hoping that my perspective
on Shador Sanders would be pretty similar to what it
was going into the pro day. I didn't want to
go there and say, wow, I really underestimated the thrower,
because I really feel like I put a lot of
time into the evaluation of the film for the past
two seasons because I thought there was a chance he
was going to come out during last year's draft as well.
(13:29):
I also didn't want to go in there and say, man,
that arm really isn't what I expected it to be,
and maybe I've overestimated where he's going to go in
the draft. And I kind of felt the same coming
out as I did going into it. You wanted to
see the accuracy. It was all there on display. We
can quibble over the value of pro DAE statistics, but
I'm just here to tell you the ball did not
(13:50):
hit the ground often turn this throwing session. On top
of that, it was expecting to see howitzer arm Was
I expecting to see Josh Allen out there in terms
of arm strength?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Did I know?
Speaker 5 (14:03):
So.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Shadoor Sanders path to success in the NFL as a
pocket passer is going to be playing on time and
playing in an offense that'll sort of affords receivers or
requires receivers to be where they're supposed to be at
the time they are supposed to be there. I can
see that path working for Shador Sanders. He has been
(14:23):
my quarterback too throughout the process. I've got him as
the sixteenth player overall on my big board, So you know, personally,
i'd be more comfortable with that player maybe around the
middle of the first round. But we've all also been
around long enough to know that there is a quarterback
tax that kind of throws your overall grades out the board.
If you love the player enough to take him at
(14:44):
sixteen and you're picking it too, then you probably should
consider taking him at number two overall because they likely
won't be there at pick thirty three.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Give me, I think here's my question field. When you
take a look at all these quarterbacks, is there a
bigger gap between one and two or is there a
bigger gap between two and three.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I think one and two is the biggest gap, because
I will say this, it only takes one team to
determine the order of quarterbacks two, three, and four. But
while I think shid Or Sanders is going to be
the second quarterback taken, I'm not totally convinced that is
the case. I wouldn't be stunned if Jackson Dart ends
up being the second quarterback taken somewhere in the first round.
I don't know that, but again, we'll see in just
(15:30):
over two weeks from right now, kam Ward has become
solidified as QB one for the Titans, and I would
say this, I can't pull everybody, but I've asked almost
every evaluator that I've spent time talking about the draft
with over the past seven or eight months, what's your
view at the top of the quarterback class? And it's
been hard to find many dissenters from cam Ward as
(15:51):
quarterback one. Does that mean the others aren't capable of
becoming really good players?
Speaker 5 (15:55):
No?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean last year at this time. Many of the
prominent voices believe Caleb Williams was quarterback one, but also
viewed that it also viewed Jaden Daniels as Drake May
and as the kind of guys that you could win
a lot of games with.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And one year in, you.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Know, if we were to redo it all all again,
Jaden Daniels probably goes number one overall. Now, it's kind
of silly to bother redoing drafts just one year after them.
A lot of these guys deserve plenty more. Grayson is
afforded through just one season. But I do feel as
though it's one gap two three four kind maybe even
two three kind of in a let's have a thoughtful
(16:29):
conversation about why each player could be the best of
this group.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Talking to field Yates here, it's fascinating because I was
talking to one NFL assistant coach over the weekend on
the defensive side of the ball's scouting defensive players. But
happened to turn on some cam Ward tape looking at
defensive guys and he said, Hey, the guy's good, but like,
I don't see Jaden Daniels. I question, Look, he has
athletic abilities, Certainly he doesn't have this game, the same escapability,
(16:56):
the same utility in the run game that Jaden Daniels
had last year. But that is the bar now because
you have the second overall pick in the year before that,
with the second overall picked ad in Houston and CJ.
Stroud where those guys come in and they are franchised changers.
And I keep telling people, and I know Field, you
know this, that just because you take a quarterback at
two doesn't mean he's a guy who should be the
(17:19):
second overall pick if you're merely drafting for need here
after the pro day, because your last mock was before
the Pro day. Your mock had Shador at three, Jackson
Dart at twenty one. But you just hinted there you
think Dart may go before Shador. Do you see a
Shador fall coming?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I think it's like I would say, I still think
it's like eighty percent likely Shador is quarterback two, but
I've given myself like some wiggle room to think that
Jackson Dart could be quarterback two. A fall sort of.
I think if you told me to make a pick
right now top of my head, if I were to
read you a mock draft off top of my head.
I think I'd have Shador going twenty one to Pittsburgh,
(17:59):
which is a big ball for number three, but the
most logical next suitors for Shador after the Giants at three.
I mean, the Saint wuld be the most obvious one.
And I haven't gotten the impression that the Saints are
as enamored with Shador Sanders now Deion Sanders basically told
us that he likes the colors black and gold and
(18:20):
wearing Colorado black and gold while saying that so maybe
he thinks, or maybe he knows, the Saints are preparing
to take him at number nine. I haven't gotten quite
that same strong sense, but he would know better than I.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
All Right, if you want to get to Travis Hunter
real quick again talking to Field Yates, who is in
Boulder last Friday, I want to pull up the quote
because when you're on with with Lewis Rittick afterwards, you
said quote moves like any other moves like any other
athlete I've ever seen about Travis Hunter. The pro day
looked that good in person as it looked to us
on TV.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
For Travis Hunter.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It really did. And you know, I mentioned earlier how
I wanted.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
The pro day for Shador Sanders to look about like
I expected it to look going into it with Travis Hunter,
because I already had him as the number one player
on my board. I said to myself, I'm okay with
being blown away even more than I already was with
the player. And I've used this analogy before, but you know,
sitting there watching people from various organizations hone in on
(19:18):
Travis Hunter, it looked like an adoring parent on the
sideline of one of their kids' games, just like, you know,
in awe of what they were accomplishing in that moment,
even though Travis Hunter was, you know, in just cleats
and the T shirt and shorts, but such a very
s a natural mover, so sudden as well, I mean
effortless his feet, The foot quickness.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Is off the charts.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
He went no gloves for the workout, which I think
there's a requirement you gotta wear gloves in the NFL,
but how many wideouts are going no gloves in today's league.
I'm sure Travis will wear gloves like he did during
his college career, but it was just a testament to
how natural the hands catcher.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
He is as well.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
The ball rarely hit the ground that didn't during the
workout when the ball was intended for t Hunter and
he had a chance to catch it. So just such
a natural playmaker, unlike really any that I can recall.
And you know, mel kiper Jingior has been doing this
for forty seven years now. He said that Travis Hunter
is his favorite player to study in that time. So
that's just an example of the kind of upside you
(20:17):
might get if you bring Travis Hunter aboard.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Would you go more plays on offense or more plays
on defense?
Speaker 5 (20:23):
It's probably a little NFL team.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
A little bit team dependent, right, But two things here,
So I'll get to the brown side of it in
a moment. But the feedback that I've gotten from teams
and I really got during my time at Colorado asking
about Travis Hunter was, you know, I understand why people
want to hatch the plan for what it's going to
look like. With Travis, we're more focused in on like,
this guy's just so unusual and so incredible that we'll
(20:46):
just figure it out.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
He's too good at both spots. I think that he
won't play on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
But maybe we get in there and we're telling ourselves, Yeah,
you know, thirty snaps the game on both sides of
the ball. Next thing, you know, he's, you know whatever,
a top ten wide receiver as a rookie. He's made
three game changing interceptions for us. Like he's just that
unique of a prospect where he's not going to be
put into a box for the Browns, you know, just
right now they had to roll out the football and
(21:12):
play tomorrow. I think probably has more impact as a
wide receiver because beyond Jerry, Judy is still looking for
a lot of answers there. But I still think there's
a chance that if they play tomorrow. You know, Jim
Schwartz is arguing with Tommy Reese like, ho on, I
get him now, Like give me twenty snaps now, because
I do think he's going to end up having a
(21:33):
meaningful impact on both sides.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Of the ball.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
And I think a couple of weeks, a couple of
months ago, I mean, this pre draft process has been
dragging on a couple.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Of months ago.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Field I heard, well, I don't know the guy played
corner at one hundred and seventy five pounds in this
league consistently. Even though, like Ryan Clark this morning, your
colleague said he's he's a Hall of Fame talent on
the defensive side of the ball, which is saying saying a.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Lots yeah it is.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
But he looked more rocked up Friday. I don't know, like,
what did he put on ten pounds? Did anyone ask?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
He was one eighty seven at the COMBINX. He's clearly
been spending some time in the weight room. And I
would just say, you know, last year, there's a big
conversation about Jaden Daniels in the frame that he had
and whether he was just you know, one big hit
waiting to happen away from you know, a big significant injury. Well,
Jaden got rocked last year in that Carolina game, left
(22:23):
early in the game that they were up.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So big that they just said, let's just think about
next week.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And then remember he was like not going to play
against the Bears in the one versus two games and
then played and of course through a Hail Mary at
the end of the game to win that game. You know,
thinking back to last year, the people with LSU really
confident in the body type of Jaden Daniels. He has
this almost like elasticity to him that he can handle
and absorb much more contact than a typical two hundred
and six pound quarterback could. I think Travis kind of
(22:50):
fits into that mold as well. These slender looking wide
receivers who, yes, they they're not built like heinz Ward
out there, but they are so tough and understand how
to avoid contact so well that they probably miss out
on some of those big hits more than the typical
wide receiver does.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
When you take a look at some of the other
draft positions in this one, obviously running back comes to mind.
Tight end as well. Those are two positions of need
for this football team. Obviously we could take a look.
It's probably day two, even not day three, but some
names maybe that stand out for the Cleveland Browns, both
(23:33):
at the tight end position at the running back room
that could be available.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, running backs had a lot of options here, so
day two, I think Omaron Hampton slides into round one
from North Carolina. Mel much more optimistic than I am
that he's going to be maybe a top twelve pick.
I think it's maybe more like late first for Mario
and Hampton. But if he's there at thirty three, that'd
be an interesting name for sure. Excuse me, Caleb Johnson
from Iowa probably late two, early three. Obviously it have
(23:58):
to be early three for the Browns if they stand
pass at that pick. Ran a four to five seven
forty at the combine. But man, this guy was a
great player at Iowa during his last season, a factor
in the passing game as well. On Day three, there's
kind of all kinds of names, and it's really like,
what do you want in your back? If Nick Chubb
remains off the roster and you're saying to yourself, we
need some power from our back. We needs a guy who,
(24:20):
you know, we can hand the football off in some
nasty Lake effect weather in late December and just let him,
you know, chew up twenty carries. Ali Gordon from Oklahoma
State two years ago was unbelievable. This year really fell off.
If you're looking for the opposite of that, a guy
who you might only want seven to ten touches per game,
but those seven to ten touches might average ten yards
(24:40):
of pop. Jaden Blue from Texas comes to mind for me,
really really impactful player for them last year. Has to
be better in the ball security department from tight end,
A lot of options there, I do think in round two,
you know Elijah Royo from Miami. Miami tight ends have
treated Cleveland relatively well of lates, with of course the
chief David and Joku there. Mason Taylor, the son of
(25:01):
Jason Taylor, of course, played his college ball in the
great state of Ohio, so perhaps there's some you know,
some serendipity there. And then going into day three, Luke
Lache from Iowa Mitchell Evans from Notre Dame, like, there
are a lot of guys at that spot compared to
other classes where maybe the top of the draft represents
like four or five clear starting tight ends, but the
(25:22):
second tier of tight ends in this class can be
very serviceable tight end twos, which is with the Browns
seed right, they have David and Joku to be the
focal point of their tight end route.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Talking to Field Yates here from ESPN Field, I think
we're like, what thirteen fourteen minutes in and haven't mentioned
the name Abdul Carter.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yet again, go back a couple of months ago. Forget
about the quarterbacks for a second. If you had said
best player in the draft, he's going number one overall,
I don't think anybody would have argued that's before he
single handedly wrecked the college football playoff with one shoulder.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
The guy's amazing.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Why is he not in the conversation more for number
one overall? If we agree that cam Ward very good player,
but if you put him in last year's class or
even potentially in next year's class, just trying to forecast ahead,
he wouldn't be the first quarterback. When Abdul Carter jumps
(26:20):
off the page and then off the field, there's been
some stuff as well. Shouldn't he be in that conversation
at number one overall?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I think that's probably the reality for Travis and Abdul
is that if the Titans had a different sort of
plan and strategy at quarterback this offseason, if they had
made a play for Sam Donald or something like that,
then maybe we're having that debate right now who's at
number one? And is Cleveland going to sit there and
say cam Ward is ours? Are they going to say, hey,
we're also bypassing a quarterback because of how exceptional these
two players are. I've had Travis Hunter slightly ahead of
(26:50):
Abdul Carter throughout the process as my number one pick,
but it's really it's like a fifty two to forty
eight type of advantage, right, this is one in one A. However,
you want to categorize twelve sacks last season for Abdul
Carter clearly the best pass rusher in this year's class.
Elite first step quickness, plays with the tenacity and force
and an energy that is unmistakable. It was on display
(27:12):
in that playoff game against Notre Dame where he was playing,
as you mentioned, Andrew with just one shoulder. Basically, he's
got versatility too, right, I mean, it's kind of low
hanging fruit to compare him to Micah Parsons because they
both went to Penn State in more number eleven. It's
also not because Micah for two years was a stand
up inside linebacker. His final season didn't play at Penn
State because of the COVID year, but you know it
(27:34):
was going to be a full time edge rusher.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
There.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Same deal for Abdul Carter's that he went from a
stand up inside linebacker to a full time edge because
they had two players draft in the first three rounds
last year. They were edge rushers and so wouldn't surprise
me if we're talking about Abdull Carter is one of
the best pass rushers within two or three years of
his NFL career, and as we know through the Miles
Garrett contract, other than quarterback, I guess Jamar Chase recently
(27:59):
leapfrogged him. But it's a top three premium position in
the entire league right.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Now, real quick here on Carter if he falls to
the Giants, obviously it's not a position of need. Right
you got to Activodeau, you traded for Brian Burns last year.
It would be an embarrassment of riches. I know there's
a connection there at Dave all Sun and Penn State,
and they've you know, obviously gotten together this week as well.
And let the speculation run rampant here. But there is
(28:27):
a chance field, isn't there that he gets to four.
That would the best player in the draft on many
people's boards, gets to Mike Vrabel at four.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I would and if I would do it, I'm the Giants,
and I would say that the glut of pass rushers
we have is a problem for another day. When every
team in the NFL other than maybe Philadelphia, sit in
there state of themselves like man, we have zero pass
rushers or minimal pass rushers and make significant impact plays
and the Giants could have three. Like to me, that's
(28:59):
a who cares about too much depth, because there is
no such thing as too much depth. Patriots, same deal,
despite their glaring left tackle need. Bam, take out Dual
Carter and figure out that left tackle spot a little
bit later on in the board. I just think he's
too good of a prospect. And you know the reason
why these teams end up at the top of the
draft board is usually because they don't draft well previously.
(29:21):
The best way to prevent yourself from drafting poorly is
by drafting for value and not for need. When you
draft for need, it typically leads to more errors than
drafting for value and trusting your board.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Give me anything else, I think we're good, buddy. I
don't want to take any more of his time up.
I know that he's got four hundred other things to
do today in a car wash at ESPN probably.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Wait, I got one more thing, all right, we'll make
a quick field that promise, and I thank you in
advance here. All right, So here's my crazy theory. And
I don't necessarily believe this, but I put it on
TikTok and it blew up last week, so here here
with me, which means it must be true. The reason
the Titans cancel their should Or Sanders workout isn't because
they're locked in on cam Ward, and it isn't because
(30:05):
they didn't like what Shaudor did at pro Day.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
It's because they loved what Travis Hunter did it pro Day.
See forty chess here.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
They don't need to see should Or because Travis Hunter
is that good.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
This is me willing cam Ward to the Browns.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Your thoughts, man, I really get the sense they're taking
cam Ward and all of a sudden, I'm certain to
question myself, like in this completely unpredictable exercise. There's one
thing that I've felt good about two weeks out. It
was cam Ward to the Titans. And now I'm sitting
there saying to myself, do I have to read think stuff?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
What is going on here? I'm gonna I'm gonna. I'm
gonna stick with cam Ward number.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
One, the good move field. Don't don't fall for it.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I got two weeks until my last mock draft comes out,
so if I shake things up, you guys can all blame.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Andrew Xavier or Strepo said this morning on GMFB the
cam Ward is the worst fisherman he's ever seen.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
So if you're going for best available fishermen, Travis has
to be the first over.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
The clearcut number one, thick.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Clear cut number one, Field Yates is the clear cut
number one is well Thursday and Friday on ABC for
draft coverage Green Bay, and then Sunday on ESPN all
day long, all the way down to mister irrelevant, which
is a title Field would never get. We love you,
thanks for coming on man. A happy draft season to
you and yours, and we'll raise a glass on the
(31:23):
night of the twenty sixth when it's all over.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I can't wait for that. We'll talk to you guys
again soon.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Give me the The Abdual Carter thing is really interesting
to me because as much as I was pounding the
table like get ready for Travis Hunter, I actually wouldn't
be upset if it's Abdull Carter. And hear me out.
The idea of a Miles Garrett Abdul Carter pass rush
like unleash the Dogs would wreak havoc in the AFC North.
(31:51):
I mean, it would be almost instantaneously the best defensive
end duo in the NFL. You can and Jim Schwartz.
I mean, just the idea give me of Jim Schwartz
letting both of those guys go eat with Mike Hall
fingers crossed healthy in the middle, who gets Upfield as well?
(32:13):
I mean that would as an OC give me sleepless
nights getting ready for the Browns.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
I understand. I think that you can't have enough edge rushers.
I think Field said that. I think there's not a
team in the NFL that is going we have enough,
and that includes the Giants at pick number three. You know,
why wouldn't they go get him if he's on the
board again, I just I'm trying to. I'm trying to.
(32:44):
I'm looking at it maybe a little differently than Field is.
I'm looking at I need to fill needs with top
notch quality talent, and I have a chance to do
so at the wide receiver position and maybe even a
little at the corner, or a lot at the corner
and a little bit at the wide receiver position. That
that's my whole deal. If you're not going to go
(33:06):
quarterback me personally, Travis Hunter would be my pick. Abdul
Carter gives you a lot of options for Jim Schwartz
and this Browns defense.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
I mean, but again, you gotta score points. I know
you have to score points. That's all.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Carter running back, I'm not I don't want a duel
Carter coming into the building if we draft him and
coming after me.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
I like, you not going to come after you? Do
you think you love James Franklin too? I love Jim Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Pens, Penn Stay fans and my family. They would like
a word that they would Penn state had a headache.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
It's a human. I like him. Yes, let's put it though,
under understood. All right?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
You mentioned quarterback here. Obviously, with this whole thing, quarterback
hangs over all of this. Let's finish with the quarterback thought.
Because Gibby you you put a great note here in
the chat the odds that, no matter what, the Browns
take a quarterback with one of the first two picks.
What are the odds? I will say that, no matter what,
(34:09):
Oh man, what do you got? I'm gonna say like,
I'm only gonna say like forty percent because this I
don't think they're going quarterback at two. That's what my
gut tells me right now. And then you have to
love the quarterback at thirty three, and there is a
world in which Shodorg Sanders goes nine to the Saints
(34:32):
and Jackson Dart goes twenty one to the to the Steelers.
And then you're like, Okay, at thirty three, do we
do we really like Jalen Milroe or.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
An impressive workout? Suppose we? I mean, come on, would
we rather have Traveon Henderson? The girl had an impressive
workout with Jordan mcgrigg video.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I am not here in any way to insult the
insiders from any network, right, I mean, Field is kind
of in that world as well, which just had them on.
But as Daniel Jeremiah tweeted yesterday, just got off the
phone with the month of a bunch of agents stunned
to hear that sixty seven players are guaranteed to go
(35:19):
in the first round. Okay, agents, it is their job
right now to tell everyone reporting pre draft rumblings that
their guy had an amazing workout and their guy is
definitely going night number one. It is that time of
the year. Okay, They're not going to be sixty seven
(35:40):
first round picks. I'm just saying, take everything you hear
with a grain of salt and also, let me do
one more thing, another pet peeve of mine. There is
this natural inclination, Gibbie, and this goes not just in
football but throughout the sports world that people assume, fans assume,
writers assume that if player and coach used to be
(36:01):
together somewhere else at another team, therefore they must love
each other. They're friends and they want to work together again.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Oh, no, they were together in Dallas. Of course we're
gonna put them together in Miami. Yeah, that makes sense.
We're connecting the dots. What it does mean is they
have each other's phone number. But it doesn't mean they
enjoyed working with each other, and it doesn't mean that
one would recommend the other to join him at the
new job. And so this assumption and full disclosure, I
(36:31):
have not spoken with Tommy Reese about Jaln Milroll. I
have no idea, no idea, but there is this assumption, Well,
one coach the other, therefore one must want the other.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
Again.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I think it's a lazy connecting of dots. Generally speaking,
when we look.
Speaker 5 (36:48):
At draft boards.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
So if the Browns don't like a quarterback at thirty three,
if Shador, if Jackson Dart maybe even if Jaln Milroll
are already gone. I'm not I'm not in any way
promising a quarterback at thirty three.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
Fair, I'm gonna put it at the Great Azzie Newsom's number.
Eighty two?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
You think it's eighty two percent that they're going to
take a quarterback with one first?
Speaker 5 (37:12):
Sure? Who picks the number that popped into my head
right away?
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Let's go, Wow, I'm gonna go Lee Roy Kelly, I'll
go Kelly Pruitt Biner, and I'll say forty four percent?
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Okay, all right, I like, yeah, solid number? Hold on?
Was it Greg or Mike Preuitt? The were forty four?
I was got mixed up? Oh, hold on, I'm googling.
This is live googling. That's all right, Like Greg prue
wor thirty Yeah, that's where I'm at. I just feel
(37:45):
like that's gonna happen where.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Mike hold on, stay there, Mike prew Jersey, this is
live googling. Prew or forty three? Okay, thirty four and
forty three, So let's just go Lee Roy Kelly and
Ernest Biner Okay, okay, all right? And and Jim Brown's
number at Syracuse forty four. We'll go forty four.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
I like how you got a Syracuse mentioned.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I mean, that's a Jim Brown helmet sitting there over
my shoulder, not a Brown's helmet. Feeling no need to
cut that out or edit it. I will take I'll
take the five yard loss there. I got a prew
it number wrong, all right. That's going to do it
for us, for Jason Gibbs and Andrews Sociliano. Again, thanks
for listening to the best podcast available. Thanks for liking, subscribing,
(38:28):
and sharing on any and every platform in which you
take in this show. Friends, we are all most there.
Daniel Jeremiah joins us next week. Until then, see you
I've had Travis Hunter slightly ahead of Abdul Carter throughout
the process as my number one pick. But it's really
it's it's like a fifty two to forty eight type
of advantage, right. This is one in one a however
you want to categorize it. The best way to prevent
yourself from drafting poorly is by drafting for value and
not for need.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
When you draft for need, it typically.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Leads to more errors than drafting for value and trusting
your board.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Re easy, friends. Pro day season is over, the hey
is almost in the proverbial barn, and with that we
welcome you to the best podcast available. We thank you
for being here, for liking, for subscribing, for sharing. We're
here to share as well. That is Jason Gibbs Gibbe.
(00:44):
My name is Andrew Siciliano, and we are now Gibbe
inside mercifully of three weeks almost a two by the
time this posts, the twenty twenty five NFL Draft, thank God,
are done.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
We've got thirty day visits or thirty visits going on.
They've adjusted my lunch schedule for the week, which puts
me in a not so great mood, like I can't
eat breakfast at nine and then expect me to eat
lunch between eleven and twelve. But that's what we're doing
because we have to have the cafe must be cleared
out for the visitors to enjoy between twelve and two.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Where we're recording this on Tuesday, I am in the
home offices. I have to go back to NFL Network
today for the very first time to like do this
seminar with former players and current players that want to
get into broadcasting. It's actually a fun event. Excited for it.
It's called Broadcast boot Camp. But you are back at
the Cross Country Mortgage campus obviously, and it's thirty visit times.
(01:44):
So each team has allowed thirty visits officially flying in prospects.
That doesn't include the local visits. The Browns could potentially,
for example, bring in a certain bowling green tight end
or any Ohio State player.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Those are local visits.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It's so can you tell us who is there, Gibbe,
who have you seen in the cafeteria.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Or is that I'm not allowed to be in the
cafe at that point in time, But I mean the
reports are out there and I think I saw him yesterday.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
Mason Graham was in the building is a very large
human vata defensive tackle from that school up north, YEP.
Exactly a lot of tight ends. You know.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Fannon was on the reports that he was here.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Arroyo is supposed to be here.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I believe on Tuesday Mason Taylor, the son of Jason,
scheduled a visit per reports.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I think the son of Jason, nephew of Zach. Two
Hall of famers at the dinner table at Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Gid y up, let's make it a third. I'm good
with all of that. Supposedly, quin Shawn Judkins has been here.
Isaiah Bond, Texas's speedy wide receiver, I think yesterday was
in the building. So it's there's a lot of guys
(03:04):
coming through and a lot of get to know you
is and.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
The whole car wash.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
At the facility where you meet with the GM, you
meet with a coach, you meet with a position coach,
you meet with a coordinator, you meet with the scouts,
you meet with the assistant GMS, a little tour of
the facility, and you know, whatever else needs to happen.
And you're mixing all that in with you know, potentially
private workouts and now that you're done with the pro days.
(03:34):
It's you're running out of time as you're getting set here.
And I would assume that that draft board, that final,
you know, top fifty is starting to lock into.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Place here with two weeks to go, two.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Weeks to go, and I'm excited to get back in
the building with you guys at the Cross Country Mortgage
Campus on Draft night on the twenty fourth and throughout
the weekend.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Here of a pod coming up next week, Daniel.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Jerem I expected to join us coming up on this show.
Field Yates from ESPN will be here shortly before we
get to that. And Field was at Colorado Pro Day.
That was the last major pro day. I actually think
it was the last pro day. Colorado didn't call it
a pro day. They called it an.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
NFL showcase, an NFL showcase.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And all the cameras were there and Travis Hunter worked
out without gloves. Wasn't supposed to do anything, but he
went out there and caught passes. We'll get Fields observations
from on the field, but from what we all saw.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
On TV, the guy looked amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I mean the way he moves, the way he comes
out of breaks, the way he caught the ball without
those gloves effortlessly in front of him. Not a body catcher,
he's a hands catcher. He looks like the real deal.
And honestly, my gut more and more tells me that
the Browns are going to take Travis Hunter. I don't
know that Andy, Mary and Glenn and Kat and everyone
(05:00):
top to otto have done an amazing job of not
telling anyone anything at all. That is just my gut,
and a lot of fans ask, well, how's that gonna look?
Andrew Barry says he's a wide receiver. Other teams say
he's a corner. Ryan Clark was an a SPN and
said he's a Hall of Fame defensive player. Like, why
are we gonna play them a wide receiver. Let's pump
(05:22):
the brakes and wait till he gets here. If he
does get here, But let me just say this, as
you guys point out on CBD all the time, and
as my phone is constantly buzzing even as we record
this from Nathan Zegur about needing weapons, the Browns have
the fewest point score to the NFL a year ago.
And there is a world that exists where you put
him at wide receiver and then you put him in
on dime situations, you know, when you go to six DB's,
(05:44):
or maybe he just put him in only on third
down and you mix him in defensively. It's not an
issue of we don't want to have to deal with
this two way thing. It's he's that special gibbie. You
take him and then you figure it out. Now you
have to have a plan, okay, but it makes all
(06:05):
the sense in the world that you can address. I
don't want to call corner necessarily a position of me.
You have three good corners, Greg Newsom going into his
fifth year, though on that rookie contract, mj Emerson or
in news whom you have to extend one of them.
They had issues with depth last year with some of
the young guys playing inside, especially late Travis Hunter. Maybe
not an inside guy as an outside guy. But regardless,
(06:27):
you're a better team on both sides of the ball
if you hand in that Travis Hunter card. I'm not
saying it's done. I'm just saying fans start to wrap
your head around that possibility.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think you know that there seems
to be and maybe the machine inside this building here
at the Cross Country Mortgage Campus is straying us all
in a different direction from quarterback at number two. It
appears that that seems to be the case. Every mock
draft really doesn't have us taking Shad or Sanders. They
(06:57):
have us taking either abdual Carter or Travis Hunter. Sign
me up for Travis Hunter.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
I think that's field Yates said it. It's his number
one player on his board. So go get the number
one player in the draft. If you can't get the
number one quarterback in the draft, or if there's a
big drop off and you believe in your building that
you know, maybe we get the quarterback later on. You know,
(07:26):
Jimmy Haslam said it last week at the owners meetings.
This is something that might take two years. It might
be a two year process to get the guy we
want under center. If that's the case, go get the
best player in the draft. The best player in the draft,
by many accounts, is Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter A one
B to A one A.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
I've seen all these scenarios here.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Well, let's say the Browns go Hunter or Carter at two,
and then they trade back in to the first round
to potentially get a quarterback, and the pushback I often
get as well.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
If you like the quarterbacks, just take him at two.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I understand that question, but I'll just throw it at this.
Would you rather have Travis Hunter an Abdul Carter at
two and then you give up something maybe a three,
right to jump back into the bottom of the second
round or the bottom of the first round. You still
have your two. We have to give up what you
(08:25):
have to give up your two, but you would still
have a three. There are trades that make sense. But
if you are not convicted that the quarterbacks there are
worthy of the number two pick, you have to go
somewhere else. Because it's one thing. It's one thing to
(08:47):
get a Travis Hunter, an Abdul Carter or an Ashon
Gente or Will Campbell or any player wrong at two.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
At one of those positions.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It's another thing to get the quarterback wrong at number
two because the time and the resources organizationally that you
have to put into getting that number two pick ready
and onto the field, and then the time that you
have to give him, the patience you have to show
(09:16):
to see if it truly does work, that sets organizations back.
So unless you're convicted that the quarterback is there at two. Listen,
I absolutely support passing on quarterback at two.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Well, and I would say this, I don't want to
slight Abdul Carter because he's an amazing talent. There's no
question he's talented. I just look at this football team
from a need standpoint, and Field might debate that later
on in our interview, but I just I look at
it and go, I've got a lot of defensive ends.
(09:49):
I've got some really good young, up and coming edge
rushers that I think deserve a chance to move up
and play for that role opposite Miles Garrett.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Alex Wright was playing really well when he got here
at Isaiah McGuire.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Look at his PFF grade.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Now we haven't seen it in sack production, but in
stopping the run, played really really well.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Last year exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And I just I look at it as I might
need some more depth at corner at some point. I
don't think you're gonna have enough corners given a seventeen
game schedule. I also know that your wide receiver room
needs another body, if not two bodies. Yeah, So like,
go get the guy that can play both of those.
(10:31):
Let's have a little fun.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Imagine quarterback to be Dame later QBTBD QBTBD with David Ajoku,
Jerry Judy, Cedric Tillman, Travis Hunter. I'd like to see that.
And it's also RBTBD Jerome Ford right now. And Jerome Ford,
(10:57):
by the way, look at his explosives last year. If
you look at the number of fifty sixty yard runs
that Jerome Ford had, it may surprise you look it
up because it was among the.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
Top running backs in the league.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So when I say RBTBD, I know everyone has a
running back circle at thirty three for the Browns, that
may not happen. Jerome Ford is going to get a
lot of touches this year, and yes, there will be
a running back at it in the draft end.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Maybe Nick Chubb comes back as well.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I'm also the one guy Nathan Nathan is with me
on this one that loves to see Pierre Strong get
in space, right and he's got juice. We didn't see
enough of them last year. I'm gonna pound the table
to see more Pierre Strong but healthy.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
This is just me. This is just me, all right.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
You've been teasing Field Yates and he has been working
around the clock. It is draft s z N whatever
the heck that means, but we are very fortunate that
he has taken the time. Today we have the guy
that's gonna be an ABC on Thursday and Friday Green
Bay Coverage, Ron ESPN for the Draft, and then Saturday
(12:01):
at the desk all day long Field Yates. Welcome to
the best podcast available. I didn't name it, but sometimes
I feel like the name is app How are you man?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I would agree with that assessment of the name, and
I'm doing great. It's good to catch up with you, guys.
I saw Andrew for a while in Indianapolis at the Combine.
Always good to catch up and it's an exciting time
right now for the Cleveland Browns. You don't love the
process of getting to the number two pick in the draft,
but it's kind of fun to imagine the possibilities at
number two, especially in this year's draft class.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Yeah, I am over the process. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I'm with Andrew Berry who said back in Mobile, I
have no patience. Let's get here. But we're not there,
at least not yet. But we are inside of three weeks.
You were at Colorado PRODA and Boulder. We'll get to
Travis Hunter in a second, but let's do the quarterback first. Here,
what did you see from shud Or Sanders? And I
guess maybe bigger picture here field, did you see a
(12:54):
guy that I hate to use the word worthy, because
I'm not questioning the young man's personal value or worth.
I like the kid, but did you see a guy
worthy of the number two overall pick.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I went into the pro day hoping that my perspective
on Shador Sanders would be pretty similar to what it
was going into the pro day. I didn't want to
go there and say, wow, I really underestimated the thrower,
because I really feel like I put a lot of
time into the evaluation of the film for the past
two seasons because I thought there was a chance he
was going to come out during last year's draft as well.
(13:29):
I also didn't want to go in there and say, man,
that arm really isn't what I expected it to be,
and maybe I've overestimated where he's going to go in
the draft. And I kind of felt the same coming
out as I did going into it. You wanted to
see the accuracy. It was all there on display. We
can quibble over the value of pro DAE statistics, but
I'm just here to tell you the ball did not
(13:50):
hit the ground often turn this throwing session. On top
of that, it was expecting to see howitzer arm Was
I expecting to see Josh Allen out there in terms
of arm strength?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Did I know?
Speaker 5 (14:03):
So.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Shadoor Sanders path to success in the NFL as a
pocket passer is going to be playing on time and
playing in an offense that'll sort of affords receivers or
requires receivers to be where they're supposed to be at
the time they are supposed to be there. I can
see that path working for Shador Sanders. He has been
(14:23):
my quarterback too throughout the process. I've got him as
the sixteenth player overall on my big board, So you know, personally,
i'd be more comfortable with that player maybe around the
middle of the first round. But we've all also been
around long enough to know that there is a quarterback
tax that kind of throws your overall grades out the board.
If you love the player enough to take him at
(14:44):
sixteen and you're picking it too, then you probably should
consider taking him at number two overall because they likely
won't be there at pick thirty three.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Give me, I think here's my question field. When you
take a look at all these quarterbacks, is there a
bigger gap between one and two or is there a
bigger gap between two and three.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
I think one and two is the biggest gap, because
I will say this, it only takes one team to
determine the order of quarterbacks two, three, and four. But
while I think shid Or Sanders is going to be
the second quarterback taken, I'm not totally convinced that is
the case. I wouldn't be stunned if Jackson Dart ends
up being the second quarterback taken somewhere in the first round.
I don't know that, but again, we'll see in just
(15:30):
over two weeks from right now, kam Ward has become
solidified as QB one for the Titans, and I would
say this, I can't pull everybody, but I've asked almost
every evaluator that I've spent time talking about the draft
with over the past seven or eight months, what's your
view at the top of the quarterback class? And it's
been hard to find many dissenters from cam Ward as
(15:51):
quarterback one. Does that mean the others aren't capable of
becoming really good players?
Speaker 5 (15:55):
No?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I mean last year at this time. Many of the
prominent voices believe Caleb Williams was quarterback one, but also
viewed that it also viewed Jaden Daniels as Drake May
and as the kind of guys that you could win
a lot of games with.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
And one year in, you.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Know, if we were to redo it all all again,
Jaden Daniels probably goes number one overall. Now, it's kind
of silly to bother redoing drafts just one year after them.
A lot of these guys deserve plenty more. Grayson is
afforded through just one season. But I do feel as
though it's one gap two three four kind maybe even
two three kind of in a let's have a thoughtful
(16:29):
conversation about why each player could be the best of
this group.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Talking to field Yates here, it's fascinating because I was
talking to one NFL assistant coach over the weekend on
the defensive side of the ball's scouting defensive players. But
happened to turn on some cam Ward tape looking at
defensive guys and he said, Hey, the guy's good, but like,
I don't see Jaden Daniels. I question, Look, he has
athletic abilities, Certainly he doesn't have this game, the same escapability,
(16:56):
the same utility in the run game that Jaden Daniels
had last year. But that is the bar now because
you have the second overall pick in the year before that,
with the second overall picked ad in Houston and CJ.
Stroud where those guys come in and they are franchised changers.
And I keep telling people, and I know Field, you
know this, that just because you take a quarterback at
two doesn't mean he's a guy who should be the
(17:19):
second overall pick if you're merely drafting for need here
after the pro day, because your last mock was before
the Pro day. Your mock had Shador at three, Jackson
Dart at twenty one. But you just hinted there you
think Dart may go before Shador. Do you see a
Shador fall coming?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I think it's like I would say, I still think
it's like eighty percent likely Shador is quarterback two, but
I've given myself like some wiggle room to think that
Jackson Dart could be quarterback two. A fall sort of.
I think if you told me to make a pick
right now top of my head, if I were to
read you a mock draft off top of my head.
I think I'd have Shador going twenty one to Pittsburgh,
(17:59):
which is a big ball for number three, but the
most logical next suitors for Shador after the Giants at three.
I mean, the Saint wuld be the most obvious one.
And I haven't gotten the impression that the Saints are
as enamored with Shador Sanders now Deion Sanders basically told
us that he likes the colors black and gold and
(18:20):
wearing Colorado black and gold while saying that so maybe
he thinks, or maybe he knows, the Saints are preparing
to take him at number nine. I haven't gotten quite
that same strong sense, but he would know better than I.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
All Right, if you want to get to Travis Hunter
real quick again talking to Field Yates, who is in
Boulder last Friday, I want to pull up the quote
because when you're on with with Lewis Rittick afterwards, you
said quote moves like any other moves like any other
athlete I've ever seen about Travis Hunter. The pro day
looked that good in person as it looked to us
on TV.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
For Travis Hunter.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It really did. And you know, I mentioned earlier how
I wanted.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
The pro day for Shador Sanders to look about like
I expected it to look going into it with Travis Hunter,
because I already had him as the number one player
on my board. I said to myself, I'm okay with
being blown away even more than I already was with
the player. And I've used this analogy before, but you know,
sitting there watching people from various organizations hone in on
(19:18):
Travis Hunter, it looked like an adoring parent on the
sideline of one of their kids' games, just like, you know,
in awe of what they were accomplishing in that moment,
even though Travis Hunter was, you know, in just cleats
and the T shirt and shorts, but such a very
s a natural mover, so sudden as well, I mean
effortless his feet, The foot quickness.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Is off the charts.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
He went no gloves for the workout, which I think
there's a requirement you gotta wear gloves in the NFL,
but how many wideouts are going no gloves in today's league.
I'm sure Travis will wear gloves like he did during
his college career, but it was just a testament to
how natural the hands catcher.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
He is as well.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
The ball rarely hit the ground that didn't during the
workout when the ball was intended for t Hunter and
he had a chance to catch it. So just such
a natural playmaker, unlike really any that I can recall.
And you know, mel kiper Jingior has been doing this
for forty seven years now. He said that Travis Hunter
is his favorite player to study in that time. So
that's just an example of the kind of upside you
(20:17):
might get if you bring Travis Hunter aboard.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Would you go more plays on offense or more plays
on defense?
Speaker 5 (20:23):
It's probably a little NFL team.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
A little bit team dependent, right, But two things here,
So I'll get to the brown side of it in
a moment. But the feedback that I've gotten from teams
and I really got during my time at Colorado asking
about Travis Hunter was, you know, I understand why people
want to hatch the plan for what it's going to
look like. With Travis, we're more focused in on like,
this guy's just so unusual and so incredible that we'll
(20:46):
just figure it out.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
He's too good at both spots. I think that he
won't play on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
But maybe we get in there and we're telling ourselves, Yeah,
you know, thirty snaps the game on both sides of
the ball. Next thing, you know, he's, you know whatever,
a top ten wide receiver as a rookie. He's made
three game changing interceptions for us. Like he's just that
unique of a prospect where he's not going to be
put into a box for the Browns, you know, just
right now they had to roll out the football and
(21:12):
play tomorrow. I think probably has more impact as a
wide receiver because beyond Jerry, Judy is still looking for
a lot of answers there. But I still think there's
a chance that if they play tomorrow. You know, Jim
Schwartz is arguing with Tommy Reese like, ho on, I
get him now, Like give me twenty snaps now, because
I do think he's going to end up having a
(21:33):
meaningful impact on both sides.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Of the ball.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
And I think a couple of weeks, a couple of
months ago, I mean, this pre draft process has been
dragging on a couple.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Of months ago.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Field I heard, well, I don't know the guy played
corner at one hundred and seventy five pounds in this
league consistently. Even though, like Ryan Clark this morning, your
colleague said he's he's a Hall of Fame talent on
the defensive side of the ball, which is saying saying a.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Lots yeah it is.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
But he looked more rocked up Friday. I don't know, like,
what did he put on ten pounds? Did anyone ask?
Speaker 1 (22:03):
He was one eighty seven at the COMBINX. He's clearly
been spending some time in the weight room. And I
would just say, you know, last year, there's a big
conversation about Jaden Daniels in the frame that he had
and whether he was just you know, one big hit
waiting to happen away from you know, a big significant injury. Well,
Jaden got rocked last year in that Carolina game, left
(22:23):
early in the game that they were up.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So big that they just said, let's just think about
next week.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And then remember he was like not going to play
against the Bears in the one versus two games and
then played and of course through a Hail Mary at
the end of the game to win that game. You know,
thinking back to last year, the people with LSU really
confident in the body type of Jaden Daniels. He has
this almost like elasticity to him that he can handle
and absorb much more contact than a typical two hundred
and six pound quarterback could. I think Travis kind of
(22:50):
fits into that mold as well. These slender looking wide
receivers who, yes, they they're not built like heinz Ward
out there, but they are so tough and understand how
to avoid contact so well that they probably miss out
on some of those big hits more than the typical
wide receiver does.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
When you take a look at some of the other
draft positions in this one, obviously running back comes to mind.
Tight end as well. Those are two positions of need
for this football team. Obviously we could take a look.
It's probably day two, even not day three, but some
names maybe that stand out for the Cleveland Browns, both
(23:33):
at the tight end position at the running back room
that could be available.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, running backs had a lot of options here, so
day two, I think Omaron Hampton slides into round one
from North Carolina. Mel much more optimistic than I am
that he's going to be maybe a top twelve pick.
I think it's maybe more like late first for Mario
and Hampton. But if he's there at thirty three, that'd
be an interesting name for sure. Excuse me, Caleb Johnson
from Iowa probably late two, early three. Obviously it have
(23:58):
to be early three for the Browns if they stand
pass at that pick. Ran a four to five seven
forty at the combine. But man, this guy was a
great player at Iowa during his last season, a factor
in the passing game as well. On Day three, there's
kind of all kinds of names, and it's really like,
what do you want in your back? If Nick Chubb
remains off the roster and you're saying to yourself, we
need some power from our back. We needs a guy who,
(24:20):
you know, we can hand the football off in some
nasty Lake effect weather in late December and just let him,
you know, chew up twenty carries. Ali Gordon from Oklahoma
State two years ago was unbelievable. This year really fell off.
If you're looking for the opposite of that, a guy
who you might only want seven to ten touches per game,
but those seven to ten touches might average ten yards
(24:40):
of pop. Jaden Blue from Texas comes to mind for me,
really really impactful player for them last year. Has to
be better in the ball security department from tight end,
A lot of options there, I do think in round two,
you know Elijah Royo from Miami. Miami tight ends have
treated Cleveland relatively well of lates, with of course the
chief David and Joku there. Mason Taylor, the son of
(25:01):
Jason Taylor, of course, played his college ball in the
great state of Ohio, so perhaps there's some you know,
some serendipity there. And then going into day three, Luke
Lache from Iowa Mitchell Evans from Notre Dame, like, there
are a lot of guys at that spot compared to
other classes where maybe the top of the draft represents
like four or five clear starting tight ends, but the
(25:22):
second tier of tight ends in this class can be
very serviceable tight end twos, which is with the Browns
seed right, they have David and Joku to be the
focal point of their tight end route.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Talking to Field Yates here from ESPN Field, I think
we're like, what thirteen fourteen minutes in and haven't mentioned
the name Abdul Carter.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yet again, go back a couple of months ago. Forget
about the quarterbacks for a second. If you had said
best player in the draft, he's going number one overall,
I don't think anybody would have argued that's before he
single handedly wrecked the college football playoff with one shoulder.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
The guy's amazing.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Why is he not in the conversation more for number
one overall? If we agree that cam Ward very good player,
but if you put him in last year's class or
even potentially in next year's class, just trying to forecast ahead,
he wouldn't be the first quarterback. When Abdul Carter jumps
(26:20):
off the page and then off the field, there's been
some stuff as well. Shouldn't he be in that conversation
at number one overall?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
I think that's probably the reality for Travis and Abdul
is that if the Titans had a different sort of
plan and strategy at quarterback this offseason, if they had
made a play for Sam Donald or something like that,
then maybe we're having that debate right now who's at
number one? And is Cleveland going to sit there and
say cam Ward is ours? Are they going to say, hey,
we're also bypassing a quarterback because of how exceptional these
two players are. I've had Travis Hunter slightly ahead of
(26:50):
Abdul Carter throughout the process as my number one pick,
but it's really it's like a fifty two to forty
eight type of advantage, right, this is one in one A. However,
you want to categorize twelve sacks last season for Abdul
Carter clearly the best pass rusher in this year's class.
Elite first step quickness, plays with the tenacity and force
and an energy that is unmistakable. It was on display
(27:12):
in that playoff game against Notre Dame where he was playing,
as you mentioned, Andrew with just one shoulder. Basically, he's
got versatility too, right, I mean, it's kind of low
hanging fruit to compare him to Micah Parsons because they
both went to Penn State in more number eleven. It's
also not because Micah for two years was a stand
up inside linebacker. His final season didn't play at Penn
State because of the COVID year, but you know it
(27:34):
was going to be a full time edge rusher.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
There.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Same deal for Abdul Carter's that he went from a
stand up inside linebacker to a full time edge because
they had two players draft in the first three rounds
last year. They were edge rushers and so wouldn't surprise
me if we're talking about Abdull Carter is one of
the best pass rushers within two or three years of
his NFL career, and as we know through the Miles
Garrett contract, other than quarterback, I guess Jamar Chase recently
(27:59):
leapfrogged him. But it's a top three premium position in
the entire league right.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Now, real quick here on Carter if he falls to
the Giants, obviously it's not a position of need. Right
you got to Activodeau, you traded for Brian Burns last year.
It would be an embarrassment of riches. I know there's
a connection there at Dave all Sun and Penn State,
and they've you know, obviously gotten together this week as well.
And let the speculation run rampant here. But there is
(28:27):
a chance field, isn't there that he gets to four.
That would the best player in the draft on many
people's boards, gets to Mike Vrabel at four.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I would and if I would do it, I'm the Giants,
and I would say that the glut of pass rushers
we have is a problem for another day. When every
team in the NFL other than maybe Philadelphia, sit in
there state of themselves like man, we have zero pass
rushers or minimal pass rushers and make significant impact plays
and the Giants could have three. Like to me, that's
(28:59):
a who cares about too much depth, because there is
no such thing as too much depth. Patriots, same deal,
despite their glaring left tackle need. Bam, take out Dual
Carter and figure out that left tackle spot a little
bit later on in the board. I just think he's
too good of a prospect. And you know the reason
why these teams end up at the top of the
draft board is usually because they don't draft well previously.
(29:21):
The best way to prevent yourself from drafting poorly is
by drafting for value and not for need. When you
draft for need, it typically leads to more errors than
drafting for value and trusting your board.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Give me anything else, I think we're good, buddy. I
don't want to take any more of his time up.
I know that he's got four hundred other things to
do today in a car wash at ESPN probably.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Wait, I got one more thing, all right, we'll make
a quick field that promise, and I thank you in
advance here. All right, So here's my crazy theory. And
I don't necessarily believe this, but I put it on
TikTok and it blew up last week, so here here
with me, which means it must be true. The reason
the Titans cancel their should Or Sanders workout isn't because
they're locked in on cam Ward, and it isn't because
(30:05):
they didn't like what Shaudor did at pro Day.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
It's because they loved what Travis Hunter did it pro Day.
See forty chess here.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
They don't need to see should Or because Travis Hunter
is that good.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
This is me willing cam Ward to the Browns.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Your thoughts, man, I really get the sense they're taking
cam Ward and all of a sudden, I'm certain to
question myself, like in this completely unpredictable exercise. There's one
thing that I've felt good about two weeks out. It
was cam Ward to the Titans. And now I'm sitting
there saying to myself, do I have to read think stuff?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
What is going on here? I'm gonna I'm gonna. I'm
gonna stick with cam Ward number.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
One, the good move field. Don't don't fall for it.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I got two weeks until my last mock draft comes out,
so if I shake things up, you guys can all blame.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Andrew Xavier or Strepo said this morning on GMFB the
cam Ward is the worst fisherman he's ever seen.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
So if you're going for best available fishermen, Travis has
to be the first over.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
The clearcut number one, thick.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Clear cut number one, Field Yates is the clear cut
number one is well Thursday and Friday on ABC for
draft coverage Green Bay, and then Sunday on ESPN all
day long, all the way down to mister irrelevant, which
is a title Field would never get. We love you,
thanks for coming on man. A happy draft season to
you and yours, and we'll raise a glass on the
(31:23):
night of the twenty sixth when it's all over.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I can't wait for that. We'll talk to you guys
again soon.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Give me the The Abdual Carter thing is really interesting
to me because as much as I was pounding the
table like get ready for Travis Hunter, I actually wouldn't
be upset if it's Abdull Carter. And hear me out.
The idea of a Miles Garrett Abdul Carter pass rush
like unleash the Dogs would wreak havoc in the AFC North.
(31:51):
I mean, it would be almost instantaneously the best defensive
end duo in the NFL. You can and Jim Schwartz.
I mean, just the idea give me of Jim Schwartz
letting both of those guys go eat with Mike Hall
fingers crossed healthy in the middle, who gets Upfield as well?
(32:13):
I mean that would as an OC give me sleepless
nights getting ready for the Browns.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
I understand. I think that you can't have enough edge rushers.
I think Field said that. I think there's not a
team in the NFL that is going we have enough,
and that includes the Giants at pick number three. You know,
why wouldn't they go get him if he's on the
board again, I just I'm trying to. I'm trying to.
(32:44):
I'm looking at it maybe a little differently than Field is.
I'm looking at I need to fill needs with top
notch quality talent, and I have a chance to do
so at the wide receiver position and maybe even a
little at the corner, or a lot at the corner
and a little bit at the wide receiver position. That
that's my whole deal. If you're not going to go
(33:06):
quarterback me personally, Travis Hunter would be my pick. Abdul
Carter gives you a lot of options for Jim Schwartz
and this Browns defense.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
I mean, but again, you gotta score points. I know
you have to score points. That's all.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Carter running back, I'm not I don't want a duel
Carter coming into the building if we draft him and
coming after me.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
I like, you not going to come after you? Do
you think you love James Franklin too? I love Jim Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Pens, Penn Stay fans and my family. They would like
a word that they would Penn state had a headache.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
It's a human. I like him. Yes, let's put it though,
under understood. All right?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
You mentioned quarterback here. Obviously, with this whole thing, quarterback
hangs over all of this. Let's finish with the quarterback thought.
Because Gibby you you put a great note here in
the chat the odds that, no matter what, the Browns
take a quarterback with one of the first two picks.
What are the odds? I will say that, no matter what,
(34:09):
Oh man, what do you got? I'm gonna say like,
I'm only gonna say like forty percent because this I
don't think they're going quarterback at two. That's what my
gut tells me right now. And then you have to
love the quarterback at thirty three, and there is a
world in which Shodorg Sanders goes nine to the Saints
(34:32):
and Jackson Dart goes twenty one to the to the Steelers.
And then you're like, Okay, at thirty three, do we
do we really like Jalen Milroe or.
Speaker 5 (34:48):
An impressive workout? Suppose we? I mean, come on, would
we rather have Traveon Henderson? The girl had an impressive
workout with Jordan mcgrigg video.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I am not here in any way to insult the
insiders from any network, right, I mean, Field is kind
of in that world as well, which just had them on.
But as Daniel Jeremiah tweeted yesterday, just got off the
phone with the month of a bunch of agents stunned
to hear that sixty seven players are guaranteed to go
(35:19):
in the first round. Okay, agents, it is their job
right now to tell everyone reporting pre draft rumblings that
their guy had an amazing workout and their guy is
definitely going night number one. It is that time of
the year. Okay, They're not going to be sixty seven
(35:40):
first round picks. I'm just saying, take everything you hear
with a grain of salt and also, let me do
one more thing, another pet peeve of mine. There is
this natural inclination, Gibbie, and this goes not just in
football but throughout the sports world that people assume, fans assume,
writers assume that if player and coach used to be
(36:01):
together somewhere else at another team, therefore they must love
each other. They're friends and they want to work together again.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Oh, no, they were together in Dallas. Of course we're
gonna put them together in Miami. Yeah, that makes sense.
We're connecting the dots. What it does mean is they
have each other's phone number. But it doesn't mean they
enjoyed working with each other, and it doesn't mean that
one would recommend the other to join him at the
new job. And so this assumption and full disclosure, I
(36:31):
have not spoken with Tommy Reese about Jaln Milroll. I
have no idea, no idea, but there is this assumption, Well,
one coach the other, therefore one must want the other.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
Again.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
I think it's a lazy connecting of dots. Generally speaking,
when we look.
Speaker 5 (36:48):
At draft boards.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
So if the Browns don't like a quarterback at thirty three,
if Shador, if Jackson Dart maybe even if Jaln Milroll
are already gone. I'm not I'm not in any way
promising a quarterback at thirty three.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
Fair, I'm gonna put it at the Great Azzie Newsom's number.
Eighty two?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
You think it's eighty two percent that they're going to
take a quarterback with one first?
Speaker 5 (37:12):
Sure? Who picks the number that popped into my head
right away?
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Let's go, Wow, I'm gonna go Lee Roy Kelly, I'll
go Kelly Pruitt Biner, and I'll say forty four percent?
Speaker 5 (37:25):
Okay, all right, I like, yeah, solid number? Hold on?
Was it Greg or Mike Preuitt? The were forty four?
I was got mixed up? Oh, hold on, I'm googling.
This is live googling. That's all right, Like Greg prue
wor thirty Yeah, that's where I'm at. I just feel
(37:45):
like that's gonna happen where.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Mike hold on, stay there, Mike prew Jersey, this is
live googling. Prew or forty three? Okay, thirty four and
forty three, So let's just go Lee Roy Kelly and
Ernest Biner Okay, okay, all right? And and Jim Brown's
number at Syracuse forty four. We'll go forty four.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
I like how you got a Syracuse mentioned.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I mean, that's a Jim Brown helmet sitting there over
my shoulder, not a Brown's helmet. Feeling no need to
cut that out or edit it. I will take I'll
take the five yard loss there. I got a prew
it number wrong, all right. That's going to do it
for us, for Jason Gibbs and Andrews Sociliano. Again, thanks
for listening to the best podcast available. Thanks for liking, subscribing,
(38:28):
and sharing on any and every platform in which you
take in this show. Friends, we are all most there.
Daniel Jeremiah joins us next week. Until then, see you
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