Reacting to the Joe Flacco Trade - Cleveland Browns Daily - 10.7.25 - Cleveland Browns Podcast Network

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh So Live on a Tuesday edition Cleveland Brown's Daily.
I am merely bo.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
He is the great Z And we got some news
here on a day off Tuesday edition of the program.
The Cleveland Browns and the Cincinnati Bengals have agreed to
the following trade. A twenty twenty six fifth round pick
comes our way, and straight down seventy one South goes
Joe Flacco and a twenty twenty six to sixth round pick.
Joe started, of course, the first four games of the

(00:27):
season for US, a couple of touchdowns eight hundred and
fifteen yards. I ask you, sir, your reaction to this
and perhaps the reason why this happened in the timing
of it, Well.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Certainly I was shocked. I think, like a great many people,
I was stunned when I heard the news, because this
is not something that happens often. First of all, that
a quarterback is traded in division. You illuminated to me
that it's only happened three times. This is being the
third in recent history. Drew Bledsoe from the Patriots of

(00:59):
the Bills, Donovan McNabb from the Eagles to the then Redskins,
and now this one. Now there was another one that
almost was would have been the fourth and almost was
the first time the Browns and the Bengals that ever trade,
when A. J. Mccern almost made his way up here
to the Cleveland Browns, but a fax machine derailed that.
According to the.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Lore, Yes, and apparently that story was retold just recently
with Johnny Manziel, who apparently he's making it his life's
passion to document everything that's ever happened in the organization
in his own way. It seems like, but we digress.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
We digress, we do. I'm stunned by it. It just
I get from like Joe Flacco's perspective. He probably wants
to play from the Brown perspective. Sorry, we're gonna see
the young guys, you know, which is as they said,
it was important. So now you know, Dylan Gabriel is
your starter and had a very nice first start. Dylan Gabriel,
who's played a couple of series and one game, leads

(01:55):
the team in passing touchdowns. He's thrown three with no interceptions.
So you know, let's let the young guy play. He's
look pretty good. And then Joe back probably want an opportunity.
We had said on the show, A few weeks made
a lot of sense for him or Jamis to now
former Browns quarterbacks to be the quarterback for Cincinnati, and
they couldn't keep going with Jake Browning, so they did.

(02:16):
You get a fifth round pick back, which is just
an asset that maybe can be used to move up,
you know, in a draft and get somebody that you
like in an earlier round. But still quite surprising to me,
to be honest with you, The Browns now Dylan Gabriel,
Shore Sanders and Bailey Zappy. You know, I'm sure we'll
find out tomorrow if Bailey Zappi gets that roster spot

(02:37):
and the Browns carry three and then you know, does
that well who's backing up? That'll be a brew haha
for another day. But no, it's about I think seeing
Dylan Gabriel play, he's the starter, and then giving Joe
Flacco doing right by him, an opportunity, you know, to
play somewhere. And if you're Joe Flacco, you say, oh,
so I get to go throw the ball to Jamar
Chas and t Higgins. Yeah, that works for me.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Now their line is maybe it's something ours tough. Yeah,
they have no threat to run either. Zero they do
not have quin Sewn Jenkins, they can't.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Run at all. Chase Brown is struggling. Well there, listen,
they were able to run before because of Joe Burrow,
and so you hope maybe with Flacco and his ability
to throw the football, we'll see. But it just is
wild that here we are in what was really just

(03:25):
a three person quarterback competition, if we're being honest about it,
over the entirety of the off season.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
It really was two. Honestly, it was really really one
in Kenny. Honestly, it was Kenny. It was Kenny.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
It was Kenny until the injury. It was Kenny. It
really wasn't And that's what makes this whole thing. So
when you just look at it from like the way
way way back machine, it just seems wild that he's
not here, you know, and it feels like he's probably
gonna be a started pretty soon in Las Vegas with
the way things probably Gino Smith, you know, but that

(04:01):
you went with the older quarterback and here we are
going into our sixth game. Well, he wasn't even our
starter going into our fifth game, and now he's on
another roster. So he was a tea and he was
a team captain. I mean he was he was a
team captain. So yeah, definitely a surprise. I don't see
any reason to help the Bengals, but we all know,
you know, whether that will be or not, We'll we'll

(04:22):
find out, but it's it's a It definitely is a
surprise and just kind of feels like, all right, this season,
chips are all in, We're going with with Dylan Gabriel
and and we'll see where that takes us.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, I think from there's a lot of layers to this.
So from the to your point, I couldn't agree with
you more on the Joe part where I'm sure he
said if there's an opportunity for me to play, and
they have a good enough relationship that if there's an
opportunity where I can play, I'd really appreciate it. If
you now, we're just guessing here. We have no idea.
Everybody's off like, yeah, there's I have no idea. I'm
just you know, throwing stuff at the wall and seeing

(04:55):
what sticks. But could I envision a scenario where Joe
Flacco said, hey, if there's an opportunity for me to
play somewhere, when the news is broken to him that
they're going to go with Dylan Gabriel. Could I see
a scenario where Joe says, Hey, if there's an opportunity
for me to start, I would love for you guys
to at least entertain it. Could I see that happening.
I don't think, Yeah, I could. Maybe it did. I
have no idea.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
I think he I don't even think he went that way,
but I think it was probably just one of those
things that's felt pretty obvious. If he's not going to
play here and he can become an asset for the
organization in the form of draft capital, you know, well,
didn't you.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
So that goes to the other part because you mentioned
Dylan and now Dylan all forward. When you have a
rookie quarterback and maybe that this is a thirty thousand
foot view I acknowledge when I have if I have
a rookie quarterback, I don't mind having a vet in
the room. It's kind of a sounding board. It's different
if it's a vet versus a coach. And I understand

(05:47):
we are obviously well versed in the coaching aspect because
Kevin does a lot of offense, and Bill's here and obviously
Tommy's here. And so there's a lot of great offensive
people around here, yes, but it is different when one's
in the room.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
And I think that's the thing that to me, from
Dylan's standpoint, I liked having Joe in the room as
a support for him, Like you come off the field,
hey man, here's what this looked like. Here's what now.
I have no idea what all of that was like
since the change. We have no idea.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
I guarantee Joe.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
I would think that Joe would probably be a total
pro on that. It would be very very helpful on
that front. So from the Dylan perspective, I don't love
this because I don't think there was a scenario where
my read on it was there wasn't a scenario where
Dylan was going to be replaced by Joe for anything
other than injury. And if he was replaced because of
quality of play, then that's something else entirely, and.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
That would be way down the ride.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
My view of this is that Dylan Gabriel and Kevin
hasn't you know, given us a hint one way or another.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
How I assumes how he feels that is a.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Very long runway for Dylan Gabriel that he is the
starting quarterback of the Cleveland Browns, and I would think so, right,
I mean, like that that's what he is. Barring injury
or massive struggle bus those would be the two things.
Again me not coach, just from the outside looking in.
So with that being the case, I just liked havin
Joe here. Of course, It's.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Just nice, always nice to have somebody there, and this
is an offense right now that is really struggling, and
so you know, to have somebody I think with that
perspective in the room, I think that that is a
valuable thing for him. So I do think it is unfortunate,
you know, for Dylan in that perspective. And then when

(07:33):
we find out whatever the backup quarterback situation is, there's
really not a big win in it for Dylan either
because if it is Shadoor, there are gonna be a
lot of people that are clamoring for him immediately, and
if it is not Shador, there are gonna be If
it's Bailey's Appy, there's gonna be a lot of people
that are upset about that. And again, the focus right
now should be or hopefully should be on Dylan, who

(07:57):
has started played well, are there things he needs to
work on, of course, and we went through some of
those things, and we're gonna have Jake Burns on later
and talk about this offense and you know, not necessarily
maybe to dwell on what it hasn't been, but what
do we need it to be and how can we
get there? And you know Dylan is going to be
at the center of that.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
And the thing that I think is is that's tricky
about trades like this is when you ask yourself, did
this make your team better?

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Now?

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Well, we're five games in, so did this make our
team better now? It is kind of the only thing
that you're in the business of doing right now because
you're only five games into this thing, like the draft
isn'tuntil next May, no, and that forever.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
What's really tough about it is that this does feel
like a move that is an eye to the present
with Dylan, but also to the future. And so when
you think about the Brown's capital going into next year,
and now they've got this collection of fifth round picks
because remember that's what they got back from in the

(09:06):
picket deal. So I think they have three fives now
those are picks and I mentioned, I think briefly earlier
but those are picks that can be attached to move
up a little bit, say in the second round. For example,
when the Browns moved down in the second round in
the draft in which they drafted Grant Delpit, the compensation
that they received in addition when they moved down a
few spots in the second was a fifth. So if

(09:28):
there's somebody that you really like at some point to
be able to use one of these fives to go
up and get them, you know, in the top sixty
or top seventy scenario, that's a great thing. The other
side of it is that is kind of the going
price right now for like quality veterans. So you have
now some fifth round picks that you can going this again,
and this is all for next year, is my guess

(09:49):
is you have some fifth rounders that you could maybe
move or perhaps in season, you know, get somebody who's
at least an offensive line for example, it's under contract
for next year, you know you can offer a fifth
round pick some more.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
So.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
I think that that loss to Minnesota was so disappointing
and devastating for a few reasons, and the main one
to me was that had you won that game, you
had a chance really to go to Pittsburgh beat them.
You get to three and three, they fall to three
and two, but you have a head to head win

(10:22):
over them. Where you're like now kind of in the
mix in this division. Cincinnati's going backwards. Now they'll get
Joe Flacca, which is certainly an upgrade over Jake Browning.
Baltimore is gonna be one in five going in the break.
Now they are going to have a chance to get
real hot over the second half of the season. But
you had a chance to really kind of put yourself
like in the top half of this division, and now

(10:44):
you have putting yourself you know, not there. And we're
going on the road to Pittsburgh where I was talking
once I go about going and beating him. Well, I've
never seen us win in the regular season in Pittsburgh
and I've been on the road with this team since twenty fourteen. Yeah,
it's just it's kind of incredible that the starting quarterbacks

(11:04):
in this division are now Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco, Cooper Rush,
and Dylan Gabriel. I mean, yeah, yeah, it's just you
never expected it. I'm love Joe Flacco. He was I
think you could tell like when I got to be
around him and see him and talk to him briefly

(11:26):
in London. You know, he's a total pro. He gets
it's not the first time this has happened to him,
and we said, this isn't a guy who's you know,
started a full season since you know, twenty seventeen. So
like he kind of gets what the deal is at
this point, and I think a deep down he's probably
very pleased at what happened in twenty twenty three allowed
him to get some nice money for twenty four and
twenty five off of that. But yeah, he wants to play.

(11:49):
If you're coming out here, like, think about it, Joe,
you really want to leave his family and fly to
London for five days to not play. No, he wants
to play, and so I'm happy for him that he's
gonna get that opportunity. Now, we don't face the Bengals
until week eighteen, and you wonder if that factored into
the decision, because it really would be you know, now,

(12:11):
it would be crazy if that game ends up meaning
something mattering. Yeah, would be wild. But yeah, it's it's nuts.
I just think, stepping back, it's hard for me to
get my head around conceptually what exactly our overall or
ultimate goal was from Are you wearing that buzz too
or is that just in mind? No, I don't have it.
I think I'm good. It just like came up in

(12:32):
one second ago. What you sign you trade for Kenny Pickett,
that was first, Then you signed Flacco, then you draft
Dylan and Shador and the reality of situations when you
draft a guy in the third round like you, I

(12:53):
think we're being like honest, honest, as much as you
liked him, you did not envision him at that moment. No,
starting week five, no, you would have.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
The only guys that get to that far is if
they have some sort of character issue or something that
you have to overlook at quarterback, and even that's rare. No,
I think like the threshold for like drafting a quarterback
who could start is like top half of the second round,
that you view them that way, and.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Rarely like Schuck was he top of the top of
the second but he's not starting. But he's not starting
Jann Hurtson's start, right, Oh, you're right. I mean that
there's a few of those, but not many, not many.
If you love somebody enough to say he's going to
be a starting court. He could be the starting quarterback
of a franchise. It's a first round pick, yeah, and
then anything else is a lottery ticket. Yeah that you
and you value those based on the round. But yeah,

(13:43):
I mean yeah, if Philly loved Jalen Hurts, they would
have drafted him in the first round.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, if they thought he was gonna be what he is,
that's when they would have drafted him.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah. Yeah. So so there's that part of it.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
So yeah, you go through all of that, and this
it does bring up back that thing about Kenny because
it was so surreal how all of that happened, how
he was he was absolutely the starting quarterback of the
Cleveland Browns, and then the injuries happened, he couldn't get healthy,
and then you make the deal to the Las Vegas
for him and.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Look at him leading his people.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
That's what I needed that right there, A little bit
of that, it's a little a little bit of joy. Well,
you need you over there, you guys over there, how
you doing. Is there like a distance that they have
to I think they have to be wake five for
like maybe two or three paces behind what looked like yeah, yeah,
that's it. Year be nice if one of these days

(14:41):
he had like a flower girl who just was throwing
petals ahead of coming.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
But the picket thing like.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
And then we traded him to Vegas, and you know,
we we talked with Kenny, and Kenny was here. He
was here every day like he was a big part
of it. He was definitely doing a lot of leadership stuff.
When Shun said the first call he got was from
Kenny Pickett, and then we traded. We traded Kenny, and
my thinking at the time was, Okay, well, they obviously
feel like Joe's going to start, and Dylan is proving

(15:11):
that he's far enough along that if something were to
happen to Joe, or it was there was it was ineffective,
then you could go to Dylan and you feel like
that's a an even flip, or maybe even you're a
little bit ahead. Maybe Dylan showed you a little bit
more in camp than what you were even anticipating. But
now you went from like this ultra experienced quarterback room
to the opposite in a month.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, And you know, we talked about how in history,
whether you know that this had happened a couple of times,
when do you know when those trades were made, like,
I can't imagine that a team has ever traded its
Week one opening starter to a division rival before after
five games. In memory, I think both of those were

(15:54):
after the season. Now, Charlie Frye was I think a
Week one starter here and then got.

Speaker 4 (15:58):
Traded two thousand and seven.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, Week one. That happened like.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Twenty four less than twenty four hours, maybe even Sunday night.
He was a Seattle Sea hockey.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Well, and that's the magical Derek Anderson season where he's
served believable to go ten and six. My thinking, my
memory of it is that Bledsoe is trade because he
was there when they won the Super Bowl with Brady.
That in the second year, he was on that team
that won the Super Bowl, and then they must have traded
him in the off season. And my hunch is that
the Eagles traded Donovan to the Redskins in the off

(16:27):
season as well. Yeah, it's my guess. And obviously those
situations are very different than this. I mean, the Bills
still in the middle of his problem.

Speaker 4 (16:38):
New England trades Bloodsoe April of two thousand and two,
after Brady took over.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
So that that would be in the that would be
after they won the Super Bowl and oh one, and
then that would be right before the draft.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
And then McNabb was April fourth of twenty ten.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Same thing then, so that would have been right before
the draft.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
When those are the only two quarterbacks who started traded
within a division, that's it. But it wasn't in season.
So yeah, I think that a I think for Dylan
now he has a lot's been thrown at him in
his very early NFL career.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Hasn't been too big for him.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
No, No, nothing's been too big. But now it's his
room entirely. Yeah, Like it is his room, and whatever
leadership he wants to take, he can take and and
there is a very long runway for performance for him.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah. The thing about it is just I do think
that there has to be there had to be some
value to him having Joe Flacco in that room. No,
that's why it's why I brought it up. Yeah, I'm
with you. You have to say that there's some sort of
currency in that. There is a currency in that well done, Yeah,

(17:54):
I would say that there is. I think there's value
in that. So yeah, that's that's the way that it
all goes. The Haff was right, we should do that
acknowledge that the Hoff was right. On Monday night, Hoff
was right. Yeah, I means damas he did a little surprise,

(18:15):
great game, fun game. It was the Chiefs are the
mystique of the Chiefs is not obviously where it had
resided for a great many times. And I will say this,
Devin Lloyd's pick six, he started like dipping his head
at like the ten yard line of the ten yard

(18:37):
line the first ten like there's no way. He looks
like he's laboring to run, and he makes it, which
is some level of an aptitude on the Chiefs part.
But Taekwon Thornton was running and looked like he was
a different species than everybody else trying to run him down,
and he got blocked, still ran him down, and then
he went for the punch out, which I get instead

(18:58):
of tackling with the one. But yeah, his speed compared
to everybody else who was running at the time, was crazy.

Speaker 4 (19:04):
It was.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
It really was.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, this is where we need that clip before from
three to five clips and clips clips ready.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's it's a little bit of a I think it's
kind of a little bit of a changing of a guard.
That's happened in the first month of the season, and
I think that there was this group of teams and
for various reasons. Buffalo's obviously still very good, but that
was a pretty shocking loss to lose at home as
a seven and a half point favorite, to lose to

(19:33):
that new England team wearing You're all whites and all
the stuff that went into that. To lose at home
in that is a pretty shocking thing. Baltimore's is because
of injury, but they have dug a massive hole here
at at one and four and about to go one
in five. That's that's very much real. And this Kansas
City team is flawed in a pretty big way. And yeah,

(19:56):
they're probably going to be fine, but they're they're two
and three, so they're a little bit better off and
they'll get be better when Rashid Rice comes back. But
it's still not all the way right there. And in
the meantime, you have teams like Indy and I guess
maybe Jacksonville now just the most stupefying way for them
to win with Trevor Lawrence falling all over himself and
somehow like a baby deer trying to walk for the
first time getting into the end zone to win it.

(20:17):
I mean, the whole thing was crazy.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
And they had a play where he went at fourth
down gets it knocked out before he gets over the
goal line. Oh yeah, I mean there are two turnovers
by those teams at the goal lined. Yeah, for sure. Yeah,
but it is amazing. Here's one that's a little bit
amazing to me. Travis Kelcey. I want to say it

(20:44):
was two years ago. I'm trying to pull it up
and verify it right now, but it was either two
or three years ago. Led the league in twenty yard receptions,
led the league, like all receivers in twenty yard receptions.
It doesn't list it here, but I'm pretty yeah it

(21:05):
was twenty twenty two. So twenty twenty two he led
the league in twenty yard receptions. It feels like now
they thrown the ball to line of scrimmage and hopes
that he like squorts forward for like seven yards.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
They are using him kind of like an old fullback,
except he lines up at tight end. Yeah, but it's
basically like the most they're hoping for is four yards.
Like if he gets nine, it's like get up and
point you know what I mean, Like he had that
one in the first half where they threw that little
slip and he picked like nine. Yeah, and he got

(21:38):
up like chesty was fired out like it was like
a thirty eight yard Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
They really don't throw the ball down the field now,
uh huh no, no, no, no they don't.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
So yeah, it's yeah, little some This has been a
very crazy month of the season, and obviously what what
happened here today certainly adds to it.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, it was it was twenty twenty two, right, twenty
twenty two. Yeah, it's and mahomes. You know, their d
is not as good as it used to be. No,
Trevor Lawrence should run more. I think that became very
parent in that game. He's actually pretty good at it. Yeah,
he's good at pretty pretty swift. It was fun seeing

(22:22):
Kareem get Kareem got in there. I really thought when
they scored the second one and they went up twenty
eight twenty four, that was it. They were going to
get the easy It was great. You gets the morning
boys and then you get the flag. Yeah, it's a
good win for the Jacks, very good win for the Jacks.
By the way, those should be their uniforms period, the Jags,

(22:44):
that was the old school with the prowling, the prowling yep,
Jack prowling Jaguar yep. Yeah, that's those are great. Yeah,
those should be their uniforms.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, that's it. There's a lot of that that's happening,
Like there's a lot of Seahawks. Bucks was c x
Bucks was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
I had several requests in the house for a Mecca
Buca white Bucks, and I'm like, yeah, I don't blame you.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
That's pretty crispy bretty. So they like the white over
the full crity.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
I think they might be right too. I think it
might be even superior and white.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, it's funny as I liked the old Broncos that
the white white one, the blue number.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Looks so good. Yeah, yeah, it very much does. All right,
we'll get some more perspective on all of this before
we do that, though. To That was Today's Hot Topics Today,
presented by University Hospitals Special Healthcare partner of Your Cleveland Browns.
Coming up next, the play by play voice of Your
Cleveland Browns, Andrew Ciciliano, will join us to discuss the
Joe Flacco trade and what is next for this football
team that's coming up next to list of Cleveland Browns

(23:43):
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(24:11):
play by play voice of your Cleveland Browns, a great
Andrew Ciliano, and he joins us there as you were
mid bite on your erewon kale salad. How did how
did this one land? How did it land for you?

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Buddy?

Speaker 5 (24:25):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Well, pull back the curtain. We all have the text chain.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think you know how I said, Well that can
be the show, that should be the show.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah, I was, I was stunned. I mean, like I'm surprised.
We all get surprised sometimes, like the Micah Parsons trade,
which admittedly this is not okay, I'm not comparing it,
but like that one, you're sitting there going whoa, And
I kind of had the same reaction. I was. I
was taping an interview with Puka Nakua for the little

(24:54):
Yahoo pod that I do, and the trade came down
and we're setting the zoom up and everything, and I'm like, hey, Pooka,
because it had happened like two minutes before we logged in,
Hey Pooka, you see this trade. He's like, what trade?
And I told him and he kind of had the
same reaction, like what, And yeah, it's it's kind of

(25:18):
Ponker's true story. And so I called up NFL research
on my boy Dante over there, and I think I
tweeted this. I know I tweeted this. Actually, Jack Kemp,
who later went on to a life in Congress back
in nineteen sixty two, beat the Titans, not the Oilers,

(25:38):
but the old Jets. Know, the Titans became the Jets
with the Chargers in week two and then with the
Bills in week fourteen. So if Joe Flacco were to
start and beat the Packers this week. Let's do the
bat thirty eight fifty eight. He'd be the first quarterback
in sixty three years to be the same team twice

(26:01):
with a different team in the same season.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Well, say, there, that's nice, Like now we're a part
of history. There you go, there you go.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
And and because you know he gets the Ravens twice
potentially because they haven't played the Ravens yet, he'd be
the first quarterback to face a team three times in
a season.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Oh yeah, that's very much in play too, buddy, as
you know, because that's like late November early December. They
play each other twice in three weeks.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
Play on Thanksgiving in Baltimore. Yeah, so since Carrie Collins
in ninety eight.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Wow, just bonkers. Yeah, a lot of stuff there. But
I'm with you with what you guys said about the
veteran in the room. And I think it's also part
of the reason why Bailey's appy was there. So that
Bailey's app I'm sorry, So Joe Flacco could have a
veteran in the room with him to bounce stuff off of.
Not that Dylan Gabriel and should or Sanders can't, you know,
watch film and offer insight. They can, But Bailey was

(27:02):
that kind of veteran to have conversations with and eat
lunch with, to to pick brains with. And now Bailey's
the veteran in the room.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
When you think about you interviewed Miles. Yeah, and you
asked him, you know, they told you the planet quarterback
and he gave that what is now kind of a
famous smirk to you. Do you think this was it?

Speaker 3 (27:32):
No, this wasn't it. And the context, the context back then, guys,
remember Miles had just done his presser, he had just
come off the podium, and then he came upstairs and
he did the zoom. But that was like Russell Wilson
had been in either that day or the previous day,
and we talked about Russell in that interview as well.

(27:53):
That clip didn't go viral. I don't know if if
part of miles smirk that disclosure. He and I have
discussed it since then. I don't know if if part
of his smirk had to do with maybe Russell or
maybe at the time honestly had to do with trading
up to number one, because there was still a lot
of speculation at the time that maybe the Titans would

(28:15):
move out, maybe they would listen, and maybe the Browns
would try to get up to number one. Maybe that
was part of it. That's what I think it could
have been. Yeap, who knows. At this point. You know,
it was good TV for the moment.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
For sure, it was. It's just I think it's wild
that you look at you move on from Pickett, who
I thought I think we all thought made the most
sense and who I know, I'm not saying I think
I know was kind of the plan to start week one,
and then you go with Flacco and he's benched before
the fifth game, and now he's on a starting for

(28:48):
a division rival by the sixth game. And then we
said it, listen, they like Dylan Gabriel. There was no
question about that. We knew that from day one. But
the idea that you know, when you draf somebody in
the third round, now, Russell Wilson, things like that do happen,
but it was probably unlikely that he was going to
be in at this point, and so here we are.

(29:08):
So it just kind of almost feels like, now, listen,
Dylan's played well, and now we were going to really
get a good opportunity to see can hey, can he
be the answer? But it's an offense that needs a
massive jump start. I mean, we're ten games in a
row at seventeen points or few, which is not where
you want to be. It just seems it's almost kind
of hard to believe that this is where we are

(29:29):
going into Week six at Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well, listen, I go back to what you said about,
you know, the turning point of the season with the
Vikings game, and I'm fully with you. You and I
discussed this both on the bus and on the plane.
I think everyone feels the same way. Like if you
had beaten the Vikings, you go to Pittsburgh with a
little win behind your sales and a little here if you,
momentum carries when we the next But regardless, considering the

(29:53):
state of the division, the Bengals, the Ravens, it feels
a little bit different. We agree on it. I kind
of compared to what we saw last year and maybe
this is a stretch, but we beat the Ravens. If
you beat the Chargers the next week, you then head
into the buy and a lot of people didn't believe
in the Chargers, myself, notably that week you head into
the buy and then you head to New Orleans with

(30:13):
Dennis Allen was about to get fired. It felt a
little bit different. Now this is far earlier in the season,
and then I view these situations very definitely. But let
me offer you this. If they had beaten the Vikings.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yes, there's a huge one.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Wait wait, wait, but does the trade feel any different
to me? It doesn't. Like Joe Flacco. There was no scenario.
Hold on, There was no scenario in which starting Joe
Flacco again this season would have felt right. Do we
agree with that?

Speaker 1 (30:42):
No?

Speaker 2 (30:43):
I don't agree on that. If they beat Minnesota, no,
because then you're two and three and you're going to
Pittsburgh with a chance to get to three on three
picks all of a sudden, if you get to three
and three and they are three and two, and now
all of a sudden, you're saying yourself, Okay, we've won
a couple of games, and if Dylan were to get
hurt or nicked when we're in the middle of things,
I'd want Flacco. So that's okay, you're saying, is there

(31:05):
any scenario that's my scenario?

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Okay, So scenario would be okay if they had beaten Minnesota.
They keep winning games, and Gabriel later in the season
and he's a part of them winning games would then
get hurt. Then starting Flacco would feel right, Okay, I
agree with you. I hadn't thought of that scenario. I
was just saying, it's Gabriel's game now, and if for

(31:29):
some reason it's not Gabriel's game, then I think we
all agree. And Jimmy has some said it back in
training camp. You have to see the kids eventually, right,
so that it would be shad shot. I hear what
you're saying.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, I do, And I think the other thing that
you have to be that I think I think Dylan's
been in some really tough spots.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
That's the other part of it. Yes, I think he's
been with.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Some really tough spots because I mean, the the other
reality of this is that while you know you want
to treat Shadoor like you would treat any other thing
round pick, we're not idiots.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
He's not.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
He's a massive celebrity and he was a massive face
of college football the last couple of years. So as
soon as you draft him, the situation for Dylan is very,
very different than what it was before and now now
we're gonna be I mean, you know how this is
going to go tomorrow? Should it is either going to
be the backup or it'll be Bailey or Kevin will
say we're gonna work that out.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Well, but that's the pr one. There's a real one
on you know, you know.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
No, no, I understand that, but whatever I know, I
ge't that.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, So I mean, but you can't because he's not
active yet. So that's the only depth chart you could
put out. But they're gonna do it tomorrow. Or Kevin
will say, he could say we're still working figure those
things out, I'll have it for you later in the
week or something like that.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
So those are your three options. Me too.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
But here's what I'm saying now, that becomes the story
tomorrow as opposed to Dylan's game. So that's stuff that
then you have to deal with over and over again.
So I just think Dylan has got a lot on
his plate, and I do think, and we don't know.
We'll hear from Kevin tomorrow what he thinks about all
of this. Maybe we're making a molehill and turn it
into a mountain. But to me, I think you were

(33:07):
better off having a veteran in that room, at least
for a little while longer.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
I agree. I think that's a fair and valid point.
I also know that the algorithm, and I'm going to blame,
you know, the amorphous algorithm, just hanging out there controlling
everyone's lives. It's it's ridiculous sometimes because to me and
you and I we are all texting this. My reaction

(33:31):
to the story is you were trading a starter potentially
if the Bengals choose a roll with him this week
or next whenever within the division, right to a team
that you're only separated by one game with well two
games one and a half lost to in week one.
To me, that's the story my algorithm in every social
media app I'm in within thirty seconds that it was

(33:55):
just shoudor number two. That's what the algorithm gives you.
And go back, go back to Dylan Gabriel on the
podium in London talking about his parents not being able
to come and his dad at the passport and became
it became you know, those tweets went viral and anything
he says goes viral. Just with the Shadoor fans and

(34:18):
the comments and the engagement through no fault of anyone's
through not Shador's fault. Dylan deserved it. And we said
this in the Pro game in the pregame show. Dylan
deserves attention, respect, and praise for the way he played,
for who he is. He's his own man, he met
the moment. He's one of the most impressive twenty four

(34:40):
to twenty five year olds I've ever met in covering football.
And I truly do mean that he is that impressive
in terms of his maturity, the way he carries himself,
the way he leads. When Miles says he goes out
there and leads with his chest out, He's not just
making that up. Like he speaks confidently. He acts like
he's been there and it's his offense. He deserves our

(35:01):
attention and respect, period, and.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
He's got it. Yeah, I mean, here we go.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
I would also say that your algorithm is very different
than mine.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
Really, what's your algorithm right now?

Speaker 1 (35:14):
I can't talk about it on the radio.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah, no, at least let's go because I know Nathan, Hey,
how do we all? Right?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
So this is what it is right now, This is
what it is like, this is where we are going
forward and so this is what it is. What do
you want to see this week in Pittsburgh from this
offense that you did not see Sunday in London?

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Twenty points?

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Well, obviously that's twenty points to be great, you know,
famous class for like things. I want to take back
from the broadcast. They got to seventeen in what the
third quarter? And I said, you know, maybe they get
to twenty, maybe they get to thirty today.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
That's weird because you also have been quite adamant on
social media recently that the announcer drinks is not real
and there are at least there are at least two
examples in this season alone in our booths that that
they're there. It's maybe not causality, but there's correlation. There's correlation.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
You had one in Detroit as well, didn't.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
You What was I don't know what did I happen
to give?

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Didn't he have one in Detroit?

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Gibby's not here?

Speaker 4 (36:13):
He did? I wanted to kick him like five minutes
into the game. I can't remember what it was.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
You said, I was going fast. That's usually what you
guys get better.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
Well, you do that every week. You're like, oh my god,
this is going on quarter.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
That's quick one, quick one.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
Remember you did do something and I was like, I
looked at Mac and I was.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
It must have been a real big one. We can
name both of these ones, and I must have been
so huge that we're in it's like a morphous conspiracy. Well,
he must have done it. We don't know what it was,
but he did it. Oh my gosh, wooie.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
There's what was the want?

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, I want to know. I wanted to Detroit. Yeah,
let's be honest for a second. It's not like I
was going into that game, you know, full of optimism.
I can't imagine. There's something happened the first five minutes
of that game got me to be like, hey, now
we're gonna go throw some big confident talk. We scored
on the opening drive. Maybe I said we hadn't done
that in a while.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Maybe. And you know what, I'll take the blame as
well for for lolden as well. I said as well
twice there because I think I said to the open like,
let's get out of here and let's get a win.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
Now.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
That wasn't guaranteeing a winner.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
No, that's not the same way.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
Like we felt really good, yes, going into that game.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
That's why that one was frustrating.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
Right as you guys said yesterday, if you had told
me that all you got to do to get a
win and get out of here was get a one
armed Carson Wentz off the field with three or four
backup offensive linemen in eighty yards to go do, I
like gambling. I would have bet anything that that would
have happened.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
That's why that one hurt a great deal. And now
we're we've traded Joe Flacco a few days later. I did.
I really do believe that that game on some level
was a bit of a pivot point because you, as
we talked about and we laid out, you win it
not saying we're listen, it would be foolish to say
we're just going to go into Pittsburgh and we're going
to beat them. The things are so in their favor.

(38:10):
We just flew back from London, they're coming off of
a bye week. We have not won there in the
regular season in my tenure here, which began in twenty fourteen,
and I know it predates that they have been out
gained in every game this year. Their point differential is
not great. They are beatable. I mean, it's taken some
crazy things for them to win a couple of games, Like,
I definitely think we can beat this team, but this

(38:32):
a whole difference.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Trait does not make them any more or less beatable.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Correct. I think that. I think what we're saying is
that it on some level is more an acknowledgement. On
some level, it is an acknowledgment of maybe we're a
little farther away than we would have liked to have
been at this moment.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
I maybe I can see your logic there. It wasn't
my first reaction, but I.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Understand the simple exercise of if you're tanneling it for
right now, are you better off as a team, Are
you a better team for doing this today.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Than you were four hours ago?

Speaker 3 (39:09):
No?

Speaker 2 (39:09):
It feels the reality is that if you're in this
game Sunday against Pittsburgh and Dylan were to get banged up,
you'd feel Okay, Joe's played a lot of ball, let's
go the other two. Shador has has been obviously well
deep down on the depth chart, and Bailey has been here,
so there's familiarity.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
But he's not Joe Flacco.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
So that's the That's the thing that I think is
it's a tough one, but it's Look, it's Dylan's team now,
and he's got the longest runway for this organization and
everybody to see what he's capable of. And that wasn't
gonna change if Joe was here or not. Though that's
the other part that's a little strange. I think that
was the case regards to me.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
If like these fives and and you know, this is
me trying to get you know, very optimistic Nathan going
again or optimistic Nate, as you guys would probably call
it on the program, that these fives are going to
be used not to draft fifth round players, but to
either make a move in season to get let's say,
an offensive lineman that's under contract, and you couldn't just

(40:05):
as simply trade Joe Flacco to get said linemen, so
you had to do this to get an extra five,
or these are fives that will be used next year
to move up in the draft and get somebody you
really cove it in the second round or now, because
Jacksonville all of a sudden is the greatest team in football,
that you will have to use a five or something
like that to help you move up and get that

(40:25):
first round pick where you want it in addition to
something else. So I just think you've gotten some sweeteners.
But it again feels forward looking. But I think when
you make a move and go to Dylan Gabriel, yes
you're doing that for the present and you believe in him.
And as I said, he's throwing three touchdowns without an interception,
so that all part of it is all good, but
it is now it feels like the tenor of the
season is very different. And I thought you sent an

(40:46):
interesting message to begin with starting Joe Flacco and not
keeping Kenny Pickett, and you've already gone off of that
path rather quickly.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Yeah, now I understand all of that truly. And I
would also point out, as I did last year in
Pittsburgh where we went and heard the overrated song Renegade Man,
that the Browns did win there in twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
I was there. Most man's were not the.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
Most meaningful, the most meaningful of their games in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Z was one of the hundred, one of the two hundred,
one of the two hundred people that were there.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
You were there, I mean, of course it counts. It
was awesome. It was an unbelievable, more than all.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
The other ones combined. Yeah, absolutely, are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (41:33):
That year is a bizarre. It's a bizarre in the playoffs.
I think if you got to watch if it was if.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
It was a if you got to see it with
a renegade and a full fan like I've never seen
a win there in front of Let me ask you
this in Los Angeles? How do they consider that Lakers title.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
In the bubble?

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah? I mean here you go, talk about it.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
There you go, you know what? Put it this way.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
It's a different world title.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
No, No, it's a title.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
The fans who hate Lebron will use it as a Jordan.
So if you are a Lebron hater, then it's a
negative if you're a Laker fan in the title, Yeah,
it doesn't matter. Like it's the Steelers. You beating the
Steelers in a playoff game in their building, Like I mean,
Ben crying on the bench that was in hands. Are

(42:23):
you kidding me? Put that on a T shirt?

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, that was great. It feels like sixty years ago.
Yeah in some ways.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Well, look, we'll see how the kid does this set
this Sunday over there, And I thought when we talked
about it a lot yesterday. I thought he appointed himself
very well. The stage was not too big. Never at
any point did he seem surprised or shocked by what
he saw. Seemed like he was completely prepared. And so
I look forward to seeing more and seeing what he's
capable of this week. And I look forward to you
guys on the call, Buddy good talking to you.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Yeah. Absolutely, I have some gear for you guys allegedly
coming on Friday as well. I'll bring that.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Ooh oh, now you peaked. I like i'd also I
would also like by then, i'd like a documentation of
my jigs. Yeah, we need to documentation. Nobody can recall.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
I mean that that's up to give it. I mean
you gotta go back and believe me.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Let's be honest for a second. This guy loves to
give me garbage on it and he can't name it
means fake news happened. I can't say it did.

Speaker 4 (43:24):
Yeah, we've gone forty eight minutes without complaining about one
to three verses three.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
No, we did what I did already already, miss you,
miss wake up, wake up, lock in the time.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Well, we told the story about the fan and pre
game in.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Detroit the fan pre game.

Speaker 4 (43:45):
I'm just trying to figure out if he complains more
about time change or Siciliana went to Syracuse.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Give he's choosing violence.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
To go there. It will be me next story. We're
yelling at Nathan in Detroit. Proh.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Yeah, Well, I don't know if we should because my
reaction to that, I don't think we should. All right,
we'll keep it. It's good for us. That's a good one.
That's a one for us. That's the one for all
of us. Yeah, that's for us.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
We'll see it Friday, buddy, enjoy yourself. Good night now
the middle of the day.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Good night.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Now, all right, we'll get you the Microsoft Minute coming
up next to listen to Cleveland Browns Daily. We're presented
by Bally Bete, official sportsminning partner of your Cleveland Browns.
Please bet responsibly on eight fifty ESPN Cleveland. Elk Serius
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Speaker 1 (44:44):
This week in the minute, we're just going to talk
about really what I think is the most positive thing
going right now on the Cleveland Browns, and that's quin
Shawn Judkins. Quin Shawn Judkins back to back games over
one hundred total yards is rushing totals are increasing every
single week. He's showing you what he can do is
not just a runner but a pass catcher. He's got
more more plays of thirty yards than the rest of
the Cleveland Browns football team combined. He has been nothing

(45:06):
short of spectacular and he's doing it quite frankly right
now against some heavy boxes. He is doing it by
in a situation where teams are not necessarily afraid of
what it is that we're doing throwing the football. And
so to me, that makes him incredibly impressive. And it

(45:26):
really feels like the Browns have found, you know, a
star here in this young man. And when you look
at what he's able to do of the of the
leading rushers in the NFL, and mind you, he has
played one fewer game than just about everybody else league.
Now you've got some guys on buys, but you're talking

(45:47):
about you know, Jonathan Taylor, by the way, Javonte Williams
having a heck of a season right there. You're talking
about Ashton genty, You're talking about James Cook. All of
these guys, the guys that are over it right now.
It's Taylor's four to seventy eight, James Cook's four point fifty,
Javonte four forty seven, etn four forty three. But he's
already got you know, that extra game there. When you

(46:09):
look at yards after contact in the NFL, number one
is Jonathan Taylor three forty six. Number two is Javonte
Williams three twenty six. Number three is Ashton gent three
hundred and thirteen of his three hundred and forty nine
yards have come after contact. Number four is Quinn Sean
Judkins two hundred and ninety nine yards of his three

(46:30):
forty seven or after contact. Now what has becomes even
more impressive is if you are to look at the
running backs in the league, and I'm gonna limit to
guys that are, you know, over three hundred yards rushing
on the season. Number one in the league in yards
after contact per carry is Quinn Shawn Judkins four point
one five. Number two is Javonte Williams four point one three.

(46:50):
Then he get down to Ashton genty three point eight,
David Montgomery three point eight, a Marion Hampton three point eight,
Taylor three point seven. So he is doing this at
an incredibly, incredibly high level. He's already got eight runs
of more than ten yards, He's already got three runs
of more than thirty yards on the season. He has
his breakaway percentage, He's been very good on his breakaway running.

(47:14):
He's done just a fantastic job in every possible respect.
He's improved as a pass blocker as well. I think
the Browns have found a gem. They have been very
hard to envision being able to replace, you know, seamlessly
the guy who are left right here, Nickolas Jamal Chubb.
But he's got that. And I think what you saw

(47:35):
is not only his ability to you know, be elusive,
his ability to make big plays, but his ability to
make plays where there's nothing there. His ability as well
to kind of be patient in the hole and run,
you know, whether he kind of gets that Le'Veon Bellery
kind of comes in upright, hopstops and then is like boom,
He's gone. Quinn John Jenkins is the real deal, and

(47:58):
if you're the Cleveland Browns, you've got to be old
with what you've got so far in quin Shawn Jenkins, he's.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Fifth in the league in yards per game missed a
game and he's still fifth in the league in that.
He's fifth in yards per game in the league behind
just Ettyn Williams Coocaine. He's the best contact his contact
runner in the league, as you so as you illustrated there,
I love that you did that yesterday because when I
was way back in the process, when I was trying
to think of the comparison for him, I was thinking

(48:24):
young Kareem Hunt, because they both ran kind of upright
and violently would cut. But the Le'Veon bell is a
is a really good one. It really is, because what
his ability. He did this at Ohio State, he did
it at Old Miss before that. But his ability to
get to the line of scrimmage and just kind of
find his way and then his start stop is so elite. Yeah,

(48:48):
I mean, he's he is a Tesla modolesque plaid baby
zero to sixty like it's quick, and then he's got
the breakaway where you don't you're not catching him and
It stinks for him because he really could I had, yeah,
you know in the game. He should have on Sunday,
you know, probably should have. So yeah, that is an
He is an engine of this offense and it hasn't

(49:12):
been easy for us offensively anyway. No, he Without him,
it's hard to know how you'd go about your business.
So he has been an absolute star and everything that
you drafted him to be. In terms of where are
there answers on this offense? Jake Burns of the Browns
Film Breakdown will join us with his thoughts on that.
Coming up next to listen to Cleveland Browns Daily represented
by bally Bet Official sportspinning partner your Cleveland Browns, please

(49:34):
but responsibly on a fifty ESPN Cleveland. Add more fun
to your phantom with the bally Bet Sportsbook app. Download today,
get fifty back in bonus bets you place your first
wager of ten or more bally Bet Official sportspinning partner
of your Cleveland Browns. Time to head on the Twisted
Tea Herdeiced Tea Hotline official sponsor for your Cleveland Browns.
Keep it Twisted, Cleveland. He is Jake Burns, our buddy
from Brown's film breakdown and he joins us. Now, Dylan Gabriel,

(49:57):
first start, What did you like? What didn't you like?

Speaker 5 (50:01):
Yeah, I thought there were some good moments for him
inside of structure, when he felt comfortable. I think we
can all agree that they're still trying to solve a
little bit of what's going on at left tackle. And
I think some of the errant throws that you saw
pushed high, either out of the back of the end zone,
a couple of the sidelines were his way of trying

(50:21):
to alleviate some pressure that he knew was imminent and
they were going to have some issues, you know, in
the one on one he could kind of see through
his progressions that he needed to get rid of the football,
tried to stay on schedule. That's the stuff I thought
was really good, really clean, keeping the football protected, staying
on schedule, not taking losses, but also when needing to
when calling him into those moments, I thought he stepped

(50:44):
up fairly well. The ball up the right sideline right
before halftime to David on the high point on that
little smash concept, which is a speed out in the corner,
put it up where only David could get it. That
was a great throw. Had that third and thirteen there
in the first half that he put right in the
hole of the zone, And that was a really high
level throw where you've got seven vikings at the line

(51:05):
of scrimmage, you know, kind of feigning whether they were
gonna blitz or not. They're punching out, dropping out into
like a hybrid zone look out of a three man hybrid.
It's really tricky. You almost have to see it to
understand it. But it's tough because you're trying to delineate
Hey as a zone or man. He puts it to
very judy, sits him down kind of right in the
hole of coverage there on a third and thirteen which

(51:26):
could have been should have been caught and a first
down was going to be had there. And then obviously
the touchdown ball was a great job of coming off
the front side, working to the middle route to David
finding his answer, his solution, and then kind of throwing
that football around interior pressure, which is something he has
to keep proving he can do handle interior line chaos right,

(51:47):
find those passing windows. So some really good stuff there.
I do think a couple reads he missed, some things
he came off early. The obvious messaging to him was
to keep the offense on schedule, keep going through things
in a quick fashion, understanding what's going on up front
and in some of the weaknesses they've had. So if
he gets to feeling more comfortable, I'm confident there can
be more downfield opportunity. But it was clear the game plan.

(52:10):
I'm sure they'll probably try to activate some of the
similar thoughts with Pittsburgh this weekend, But I mean the environment,
the defense you're facing, nothing but optimism should be hot
about how Dylan played Jake.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
When you look at this Brown's offense and what it
has been at its best under Kevin Stefanski, what's happening
with the play action game? Has the league caught up
to kind of those keepers with the levels concepts? Has
We're just not as a team right now getting and
we can run the ball effectively. And I know that,
you'd say, and everybody does know that on some level

(52:43):
it's not necessarily linked to running it effectively, although it
certainly can't hurt it. Why are we not able to
generate the downfield chunk plays or even intermediate where you
get a lot of yak chunk plays off of play
action like we had been able to at times in
the past.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
I think that it's obviously the biggest question. It's a
great question in terms of how they're you know, when
Kevin arrived, I think there was a really big emphasis,
if you recall press conferences early portions of his coaching here,
that we want to really marry how we run the
football to how we throw it. We want to make
those two things synonymous and make defenses confused in that way.

(53:21):
And I would give it a couple different ways of
answering this to your first point, defenses have evolved. I
think when Kevin arrived, it was not the way of
going about wide zone and play action from under center
hadn't quite hit the level of frequency that we have
seen in the NFL the last five years. Defenses are

(53:42):
getting very comfortable, and really what's impressive is linebackers are
getting so much better at reading run, initially feeling out
what indicators they need to feel out that it's a pass,
and punching out and dropping under zones because you can't
get to those intermediate chunk throws, the dee overs, the
double moves if linebackers are dropping into those windows and

(54:04):
I think defenses are getting really far more advanced at
defending those concepts than they used to be. So you
see teams dressing up things in a different way. For example,
go watch how San Francisco uses Kyle Yustchek their hybrid
fullback that they love to put in blocking and then
melt into concepts and routes that create some advantages for them.

(54:27):
Then also simultaneously, if you can go watch how the
Rams do wide receiver inserts. They'll take their wide receivers,
use them as a part of their blocking operation. Out
of eleven personnel, three wide receivers and a running back,
have them be blockers at times, be really tough at
that point of it, but then also sneak through the
line of scrimmage and get out on routes to open
up some different looks the defenses aren't quite accustomed to seeing.

(54:50):
So really, what you're trying to do, and I think
what the best offenses are doing right now is giving
defenses confusion in different ways, right not the tradition bootleg
to a levels concept, not the traditional straight drop into
a two man match protect route. They've seen that that's
been in front of them because of the over. You know,

(55:11):
I think it's just it's just becomes so saturated in
the NFL. And this is a credit to what you know,
you know Shanahan has done and what ultimately McVeigh has done,
and all of their disciples does spread across the league
and even the Kubiaks, right, and that's where Kevin comes from.
The Kubiak tree. You track it all the way back
to Denver when Shanahan and Kubiak were together those Super
Bowl teams. It just has turned into this offensive structure

(55:34):
that is very saturated, and a byproduct of that is
the defenses are better at defending it than they've ever
been because they've been exposed to it so much more often.
Most of the time, most of these places have core
elements of it that their own team is running. So
not only are they preparing for you in game week,
they're seeing their own offense run it in opas and
mini camp and training camp, and it just has become

(55:57):
second nature. So you are trying to see teams do
different things. Hey, when we're under center, instead of it
only being a runner play action, we're gonna five step
drop out of it and make it confusing for them.
Let's do that let's get them out of the mode
of like when we're under center, it's either run or
play action. Now let's straight drop off of it, try
to create some downfield opportunities. I think teams are trying
different things. I would say that the Browns are not

(56:20):
at the forefront of that right now. I think there's
some stuff there that they could be doing. I can't
speak to what their guys can handle and what their
belief is about getting that accomplished, but there's some things
that I think are missing for them to capitalize on
what Quinn Shawn Judkins is doing because he's creating rushing
yards for them in a very unique way. So what

(56:40):
they got to get better at is marrying some of
the looks of the things he's doing well with some
opportunities to find chunk plays off of those same looks.
That's something that's just not happening right now.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
And to that, I mean, I don't feel like, you know,
you talked about some of the other teams that do
this so well and the Rams, and obviously you mentioned
some things they do differently, but with Stafford or with
you know, the Niners, whether it be Purty or mac Jones,
they do such a better job of attacking the middle
of the field, and it feels like we only are
in the middle of the field. If it's like a
stick route, if it's just a quick kind of short

(57:14):
hitter over the middle, or if it's one where you're
checking it down and you let the zones kind of
drop and then you throw it underneath them. How do
we get kind of that middle of the field back,
because that is when you watch a lot of the offenses.
Sure there are big plays down the field to the outside,
we're not really throwing the ball more than twenty yards
in the air very often. Certainly Dylan Gabriel did not
do until the last drive of that game. And you're
playing a team that plays more too high than anybody,

(57:35):
So I understand that on some level. But if it
teams the others playing more too high than anybody, one
of the vulnerabilities is the middle of the field, and
we just it feels like we're not living there. Are
you seeing something schematically or is it just is it
timing issues? Is it because our tight ends and the
guys that would work a lot of those teams are
forced to chip so often that they can't get into
those routes. Why are we not able to really work

(57:56):
that middle of the field.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
Great stuff there, I mean that some of the those
things are the problem, right, Like they're forced two right now.
Maybe this rectifies if some things improve as Jack gets
healthier and they maybe give Cam Robinson a little bit
up or KT gets more experience, gets a little better
at this as he goes. But like they're not protecting well,
and they know they're not protecting well, and from that

(58:19):
issue that is in house, they know it. They have
to chip either a running back a tight end or
two tight ends. And like you said, when you do that,
that's like a second to a second and a half.
They're not out on any route. Think about how long
dropbacks are in time to throw, usually like two and
a quarter to three seconds. And if you've got a

(58:39):
guy who's got to slow down and opposing edge rusher
from getting up field, that eliminates two of those routes
from having significant implications on the defense. Period. Now you
could get to a checkdown. Sometimes they don't cover it,
sometimes they do. Sometimes zone stresses it. But like the
consistency of finding things off that you just can't do
it down to down. So it's that also again tracking

(59:01):
this back to some protection stuff they've struggled with. They're
seeing more man coverage than anybody else. They have seventy
eight dropbacks against man coverage right now than the team
below them is second place, has sixty eight, ten more
steps in this look. Because teams are saying, I'm just
telling you what teams are saying. We don't think you

(59:21):
can separate. We don't think you have a schematic advantage
over us to make it hard for us, whether that's
tight bunch alignments with differentiating releases that make some responsibilities tricky.
You don't have rub route concepts that are effective. The
motion doesn't threaten us in a way that scares us,
And we don't think just in general, you can protect
long enough to let downfield man beating routes to develop.

(59:45):
That's the issue. There's no other issue to me than that.
That's the single biggest thing. Routes against man take longer
to develop because it usually involves either some sort of
two cut route or a route that needs a longer
period of time to either work across the field or
rub against some other route. And that is that Browns
don't have time to get to it. They just can't

(01:00:06):
find him because there's not enough time consistently. So that's
why defenses are saying and pretty much I have to
I kind of got to go back and double check this.
But through the first four weeks, every defensive plays have
played more man coverage than they typically like because they
know they're gonna get home and the routes aren't gonna
get open in time more often than not. And they're

(01:00:27):
not worried about leaving guys on an island because of that.
So they've got to solve that schematically. Different looks, different motions,
and I'm talking purposeful motions. Motions aren't just moving the
guy to tell you whether it's man or zone. I
need you to move a guy to get him into
a position to upset somebody else's trail coverage defender, or

(01:00:47):
set a natural rub, or set a confusing setup where
him going from number three outside to number one inside
makes him makes the pass off of coverage confuse who's
responsible for who? We got to like? That's where I
think this offense figures some of this out. They've got
to get unique, diverse, and different against man coverage looks

(01:01:08):
that are not going to slow down anytime soon because
if they don't and they can't rectify the issues and
finding guys open, you're gonna see quarterbacks taking sets and
you're going to see throwaways because they can't separate. If
it's predictable and the defense is comfortable playing on their
toes and not their heels and playing that forward press
man coverage stuff, that's where the field feels like. Man,

(01:01:28):
it feels like the Browns are playing inside of like
a thirty by thirty box and.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
It can't get out tough.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
It's compressed. And I think one of the things you
talked about with the motion and motion that really matters
is some of the teams. You know, we talk about
the Rams, We've mentioned them. Chicago's doing it with Ben Johnson,
the Chiefs are doing it quite a bit, obviously, you
got in Denver. I'm just looking at some of the teams.
These are the teams that have faced the highest percentage
of busted coverages. And part of that because that motion

(01:01:55):
can put stress on the rules and all of a
sudden you have guys who have to communicate or make
split second decision and it leads the bus. The Browns
have faced the fewest busted coverages in the NFL, and
I don't know if that's anecdotal. I don't know if
it's tied into what we're talking about here or not,
but it's one other kind of a data point there.
And sometimes, you know, you need those chunks and you
need those busts to make things easy. That's how you

(01:02:17):
get there. Because as we know, we haven't gotten been
able to get you know, to twenty points so far
this season. It's been ten straight games in doing so.
There's still a lot of good and a lot of
things to like, but I really don't know how we
can get there kind of mid season, and maybe hopefully
we can well.

Speaker 5 (01:02:35):
I think a great example of this, I tried to
post yesterday on our Twitter feed Brownstone beating and it
was a route and there was no motion tied to this.
Because I want to be clear, motion doesn't solve all
your problems. I know you guys don't think this. I'm
just reminding the audience like, it doesn't solve all the problems,
but it certainly creates more problems for the defense than
they want. So giving them more of that, making them
prepare for more of that does lead to confusion, and

(01:02:59):
it takes three he plays a confusion to have twenty
one points on the board at the end of the game,
which is a place the Browns can't find consistently enough.
But like a great example of why they're not getting
to these throws. There's a three by one concept in
the second quarter where Isaiah bar is to the left,
young receiver trying to learn the game, trying to fit in,
playing above his feet a little bit ye and there's

(01:03:21):
no motion on this play. It's just a three y
one and David's running up the seam as the number
one inside receiver closest to the to the tackle box.
Right coming off the snap, Dylan's looking left side. Bond
doesn't really run around. He gets collisioned at five. It's
kind of a nothing thing from him. I don't know
if he didn't know what was going on call wise
in the two minute whatever, But like Dylan's looking left,

(01:03:44):
he wants to first check if he can find Isaiah
for a quick throw to the sideline. He doesn't really
run around, but as he's looking left, his left tackle
is beat so cleanly he feels the need to just
throw it over his head, where if he could just
slide up a bit and look back, David's running with
nobody around him, and it's just it's a microcosm of

(01:04:05):
their biggest issue. One play, it's a receiver not running
the right route or finishing to catch. Another play, it's
a quarterback maybe not getting to who he's supposed to
get to because his internal clock is sped up. Another play,
it's an offensive tackle or a guard kind of just
losing somebody and creating that momentary pressure that distracts the quarterback.
And then sometimes it's like they're just not dressing it
up well enough to make defenses confused. It's an everybody issue,

(01:04:28):
to be clear, but it's like, you gotta figure this out.
It's week six and you got to figure it out soon,
or you're looking at more unfortunate results. It's just it's
a crisis they've got to solve.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
All right, let's just slip it to the defense really quickly,
because the defense is still playing well. Obviously, they give
up that long drive at the end, which was unfortunate,
but you know, three sacks. They did get the two turnovers,
but didn't generate pressure. I think the way that many
of us expected going into this game, particularly with the
issues on the line, of the Vikings, particularly with the
fact they were sacked six times the week before, they'd
given up the most sacks in the league. What did

(01:05:02):
you see when you put the tape on in this one?
Up front? Because there was a lot of good, but
it certainly was not the jail break to the quarterback
that I think many people envisioned. And certainly, you know,
I know it's not that easy. There's still professionals on
the other side. But I felt like we were gonna
be harassing Carson Wentz a lot more than maybe we
did in that game.

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):
Kevin O'Connor was good at this man, and I think
he really his plan with Carson was as much as
we can keep the Browns out of blitz situations and
as much as we can get rid of the football
as fast as possible. It's just gonna keep us in
a more harmonious place. So yeah, I mean, listen, the
Browns need a ball winner at wide receiver. What I

(01:05:41):
mean by a ball winner's a guy who like, hey,
nothing's open, I'm gonna throw it up to that guy.
Justin Jefferson's He's a unicorn right now, right, So like
that helped. Yeah, we're gonna throw a fade on Denzel.
Denzel's in like textbook coverage, but he's still gonna come
down with it or some other like that's gonna happen.
But the point that I was concerned about was like
taking that away no matter what, Like, we want to

(01:06:04):
make Carson come off of the first read, and I
didn't feel like there was enough coming off the first
read and making him hold on to the ball in
a really meaningful way that allows you to get home.
Because obviously, like you can have a great pass rush
with four and drop seven, but if they're able to
find ways to throw it quick, either high percentage or
load percentage, you still have to be able to have

(01:06:27):
enough time to mess with that. And I thought, yeah,
the vikings on some of the longer holds did hold
up well enough. Carson was able to kind of sneak
out of a few of those. But to me, for
the most part, like this one came down to a
pretty clean game plan of almost isolating aside, we're gonna
go half field reads, let's get the football out quick,
and then we're gonna run some very calculated play action

(01:06:49):
concepts that again isolate a player on a single player
that we think we can take advantage of the goal
was to keep Carson fluidly getting rid of the football
as quick as they possibly can hand, and they did
a pretty good job of that. So you know, again,
to their credit, I thought they did what they needed
to do. And I think this is a breaking not
a breaking point, but this is something the Browns need

(01:07:09):
to get prepared for. I'm pretty sure I have to
double check the data, but Pittsburgh gets the ball out
faster than anybody in the NFL. Right now, Aaron Rodgers
wants to get the thing out of his hands. Bubble screens,
quick screens, like very quick concepts meant to get it
out so that he doesn't have to a at his
age get hit very often. But b they know the
hindrance of some of their passing protection stuff, so they're

(01:07:31):
gonna do that again. They've only thrown the football six
times twenty eight yards or more, so there's your sign
they want to get rid of it quick. How are
the Browns going to combat that to make them uncomfortable?
You can't play man one hundred percent of the time,
So what zone looks are you going to give them?
Browns are liking to play more cover two and more
Cover six. They're open to doing that. They've tried it obviously.

(01:07:53):
The final snap of Cover two burnt them. But they're
trying to get mixed pre snapped, a post snap that's
been very urging this year, making it look like man
but dropping into zone, having more offman instead of press man,
so it looks a little bit like zone pre snap
before it comes ultimately into a man coverage. I like
what they're doing, but the teams that throw it quick

(01:08:14):
have given them some trouble because then your pass rush
doesn't get into that you know, eat them alive mode
that makes them really special. You start to think all
the ball is gonna be out before I even get home.
You start to get worn down. It's just it's a
it's a domino effect. So I think it's if you're
gonna beat Aaron and Pittsburgh, and Pittsburgh, it's making Aaron
uncomfortable prestaff to post snap and he's got to hold

(01:08:36):
on to it a little bit longer. They're doing everything
they can in Pittsburgh to stop doing that. We'll see
if the Browns can combat it while also understanding Pittsburgh.
In a bye week self scouting, they know the same
data we do. I am curious if they're gonna try
to chase some bigger throws in this game simultaneously. That's
a little bit of the danger of playing a team
coming off their own bye week.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Jake, you're the best man. Thank you so much for
your perspective as always, and greatly appreciate your time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
To check out his stuff. I mean you guys for people.
Oh yeah, Browns Film Breakdown at Brown's Film BDN on Twitter.
Check it out. It was funny. While I was like this,
Zash was texting me the picture of the play, the
video of the play where they about with na Joke
Coud running down the middle of the field. Was just
turn on the radio right now. The guy he's breaking
it down, breaking it down, He's breaking it down. Thanks Jake,
appreciate you.

Speaker 5 (01:09:20):
Thank thanks guys, thanks for having me anytime.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Love the show all right there he goes Jake Burns
Brown's Film Breakdown at Brown's Film BDN on Twitter. He
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(01:09:44):
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around the league from an absolutely bonkers Week five.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
By the way, I have one thought real quickly. We
were just going through talking jump shots. Yeah, who was
your like? What was your jump shot?

Speaker 5 (01:10:05):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
Model?

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Who did you? Rex? Liked?

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
We grew up in a very different world because when
we're all men were forty. When we were kids, people
didn't change your shot. They took your shot and then
ex situated what made it positive.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Yeah, that's how like.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
When when I tell like my kids all the Larry
Bird now that Larry Bird's the best shooter I've ever seen,
They're like, daddy shot over his head. What are you
talking about? And I'm like, well, that's the way we
used to teach it. They didn't teach it. So now
every kid is taught to shoot like Steph. So that's
what they all. It's all straight up. It's just here,

(01:10:42):
it's just that that's how they're all taught. So yeah,
I was a higher release point too, and so it
was I don't know that I modeled it. I can't
remember modeling it after anybody. It was just effective and
so that's what I used. But I also never had
anybody change it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
I was trying to be like Rex, get little Lake
kickouts coming around the screen. I feel like, give Bay
shot in my mind would be like Bill Cartwright's be
amazing if it was. Who would ever block it? If
you shot?

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
There's another great example though he made all of those.
Nobody's changed him when he was a kid, and.

Speaker 4 (01:11:12):
I actually did change mine. I had a horrible for him.
I had a knuckleball when did you change it? Prime?
Late middle school, early high.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
School that's usually the time, and I had I had a.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
Couple of really good high school coaches, one of which
actually was on the stat crew for the game in London.
Really shout out to Bob, how about that? Well, Buddy,
I think he's in Switzerland though this week. But literally
it was like, okay, you got you're doing this wrong. Yeah,
and then I became the model. Like what we would do,
like on Saturday mornings as part of our as part

(01:11:46):
of our varsity basketball if you were on the varsity
basketball team or even on the JV Saturday mornings, you
had two clinics that you had to do with youth.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
Oh that's pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (01:11:56):
So we did. We did stuff with kids from first
grade through fifth and then like or no, first through
fourth and then fifth, sixth, and seventh. We had two
clinics in the morning after on every Saturday morning that
we had to run and they would bring me out
and they would be like, show them how you used
to shoot? Yeah, now shoot yeah, and it's I mean again,

(01:12:18):
I wasn't scoring forty a night or anything, sure I was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
That's really smart though, that they did it at that age.
That's a good time to do it because that's right
when you're changing physically, you're becoming stronger. Yeah, NBC, I
did that.

Speaker 4 (01:12:30):
The phone out of the phone booth.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Yeah, absolutely, he changed his I think in fifth Beamsy's
altered his a little bit. And Bootsy we're doing some
stuff with Bootsy right now. But like that's yeah, that's it.
It's it's such a beautiful thing when it all clicks.
But it is hard when you when you do something
naturally and you're like, oh, I got to change this, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
You gotta, you gotta switch it up with this one.
Build cart right for.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
That would be good Bill cart right solid, all.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Those everybody should look out like magic Johnson shot though,
like nobody, everybody, even Jordan, And like Jordan's shot is
very much like Kobe's, but he basically mined it, mimicked it,
so basically all of his mannerisms, all of it. But like, yeah,
everybody just had dipp now, like most of the kids
try to shoot like Steph, which is pretty good idea
if you're gonna shoot, like anybody, the.

Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
Best way to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
Very sweet he did. But it's that Steph. It's that
that And it gets out quick that way too. That's
the other thing, Like it really gets out quick and
you can generate.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
A lot of power because it starts low. It starts low.
It's a low much lower.

Speaker 4 (01:13:29):
Yeah, just a heads up, more trades coming today, not
with us, but the Ravens who the Ravens acquire earlier
today at corner CJ.

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
Gardner Johnson didn't they just sign him to his practice squad.

Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
Yes. Uh, they have traded edge adafe O Way.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
A former first round pick.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
And the Rams seventh and twenty twenty seven to the
Chargers for safety Alohi Gilman and a twenty twenty six
fifth round pick.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
Wow. What why?

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
I'm not sure, but what.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
An odd thing? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
Both those teams are mass units. I mean, the Chargers
are playing without everybody. Baltimore, everybody of consequence was out.

Speaker 4 (01:14:17):
Huh So some things going on around the league today.
Baltimore is trying to shore up whatever they can. The
Bengals clearly doing the same.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
So wow, that's wild.

Speaker 4 (01:14:30):
With that in mind, time for one thought quickly around
the league. From week number five in the National Football League,
I'll probably just rotate each one of you on the
on the year the Boss give a Monday Night football,
I will take a thought from both of you on
this one. Jacksonville thirty one Kansas City twenty eight, My

(01:14:50):
first round pick continues to get worse. Not pleased, Bo Bishop.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
Yeah, I think I'll just take the Jacksonville side. That
feels to me like one of those wins that when
you win that way, as improbable as that was, with
him stumbling and falling and all of those things and
eventually stumbling into the end zone. It feels like one
of those wins that can springboard and operation. And now
all of a sudden you're looking at two teams in
that division at four and one. Indy is legit good.

(01:15:15):
They lead the league in point differential, and maybe Jackson
is okay too.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
They believe in Liam Cohen. I mean I think that
they have talked about him. Yeah, I think you seem
like in the in the end game interviews and stuff.
He's an impressive dude.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
He got kind of a bad rat because the du bo,
but like, no, he's got a little Yeah, there's something
to him. Yeah, he's got He was chirping Sala. Like
whether that's a smart decision or not, I would say
probably not. But I think that if you're on his team,
like you like it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Yeah, Salo is threatening, violent, Like nothing's happened about that
when you say things. Yeah, it was like that significant.

Speaker 4 (01:15:55):
I mean, Jerry Jones just got fined, I think and
fifty k for flipping off the fans.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Yeah, I pointed at him, right, I'm surprised, Like, here's
the thing though, like Baker's video was awesome with the
fan in Seattle, but there were things that were, including
that video that might not be The league might not
be with Bake. Yeah, well, no, I guess they would
be pleased.

Speaker 4 (01:16:19):
I'm sure there is an envelope waiting for him come
Saturday with.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
But didn't the league tweeted out probably. Yeah, I thought, Well,
maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:16:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
There's so much that comes my way. I don't get
start to know what is what isn't.

Speaker 4 (01:16:31):
But yeah, score, you got a thought on this Jacksonville
Casey game.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
Well give you if you're paying attention, I said, he
did give you what I gave you a thought. It
was about their head coach, Liam Cohen. It's just unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (01:16:42):
Fair enough, I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
The jet today is a lot worse.

Speaker 4 (01:16:49):
Than it was yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
Jet cascading down the fairway. What he got left? One
ten in easy, easy got Johnny all right, forty nine ers,
twenty six rams, twenty three in overtime one six years ago.
Where did you watch this? Where did you guys watch it?
It kicked off at one thirty in the morning. Oh
my god, that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:17:11):
I watched it while I ate breakfast in the morning
when they were doing the postgame show.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
I saw that Ton just touchdown and went to bed.
Incredible win by the forty nine ers. Stafford is playing
great football. I'm sorry to believe they lost the game
where through for three eighty nine to three without a turnover.
Phukinakua's the best receiver and are most consistently productive receiver
in football. DeVante Adams has been there. It's been a
lot of fun. But this, to me, the story here

(01:17:38):
is a couple of things. It's Mac Jones, bless you.
It's Mac Jones, and it's Kyle Shanahan. Kyle Kyle Shanahan.
Had Mac Jones go thirty three or forty nine for three,
forty two and two touchdowns. They had none of their receivers,
they didn't have their top three receivers, and they did
not have their top tight end. And then Kendrick Bourne

(01:17:59):
goes ten for one, four two. Ton just goes seven
to forty one in a touchdown. Christian McCaffrey's having one
of the great receiving seasons YEA in the league right now,
and he's a running back, but he's right now He's
got thirty nine for three eighty seven and three touchdowns receiving,
which is wild. It's just that's an incredible win there.

(01:18:20):
Their defense was opportunistic. He got two fumbles, one from Stafford,
one from Conon Williams. The Conen Williams went going into
the end zone. An incredible win for the forty nine ers.
And this is a team now four to one. They're
gonna get Ayuk back in a week. That's crazy what
he's done. Yeah, they're gonna get obviously healthy, Pierce all
On and Juwan James can state get healthy. This feels

(01:18:41):
like a team that, you know, if there are teams
if the Browns, if the Browns are a team that
has this season goes along that you know, if things
do not go the way we want. We certainly want
to see the season go a lot of wins, but
might be a team that has some familiarity with scheme

(01:19:02):
wise that some people they might be interested in.

Speaker 4 (01:19:04):
Yeah, all right, early games from Sunday. Thank you for
the double bonus. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
Yeah, we can't. We can't war on each other. What
did I do wrong then?

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:19:16):
No, I just said thank you for the double bonus
because I screwed up. Oh okay, okay, I appreciated Ze
coming back with a little more information gave thank you. Yeah, okay,
very good, very good. Trust me, I'm getting through it.
It's going to be a struggle bus for the final
twenty minutes early games.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
We're almost there.

Speaker 4 (01:19:32):
Sunday bo Bishop one thought Texans forty four Ravens.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
Ten Baltimore's injury list was the is the most star
studed injury list I've ever seen an NFL team put
out in Week five. Never see anything like it. Basically
every good player and you were dead on. I was off.
I thought there were somehow they'd cobble something together. There's
nothing to cobble together. They're a mess. They're gonna get
to one in five and then they're gonna try and
lick wounds and make a heck of a run. But

(01:19:58):
you said it on Monday there this year's Bengals. I
think that's a good way to put it. How deep
is this hole that they're trying to dig out of?

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
It's pretty substantial. I mean, if you need any more
example that Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow are real MVPs.
You're talking about teams that go from being, Oh, we
think these teams could win the Super Bowl to these
are the two worst teams in the league. Yeah, and
I hope from the Texan standpoint, I really hope that
this is a get right game for CJ. Stroud. I

(01:20:27):
hope that this gets him going twenty three to twenty seven,
two forty four, four touchdowns, no picks. I hope that
this gets him him going a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:20:35):
All right, Well, rotate guys here. Nathan One thought Panthers
twenty seven, Dolphins twenty four.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
Had it, I mean, had it a new Carolina was
going to win this game. They're the ultimate roller coaster.
This is a game where they were down I want
to say, seventeen nothing, something like, Yeah, they were down
early in the second quarter. Incredible that they were able
to come back. Mike McDaniel was as dejected as I've
ever seen him, and then his press conference was somewhat incoherent.

(01:21:05):
Just yeah, he's broken. Yeah, it's they're gonna end up
making a change. Darren Waller is one of the craziest
stories I've seen in a long time. Darren Waller last,
let's look at his career. Last played in eleven twelve
games in twenty twenty three, doesn't play at all last year,
miss Is the first four weeks of the season, comes
back and in two games as eight cats for one

(01:21:26):
hundred and five yards and three touchdowns, everaging thirteen yards catch.

Speaker 4 (01:21:29):
It's crazy bo bishap for you Colts forty Raiders six.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
By the way, he's thirty three years old. It's not
like he's a no.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
Spring Chicken cults are legit good.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
They lead the NFL in a point differential and really
should be five and zero.

Speaker 4 (01:21:43):
Zigura Saints twenty six Gmon fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
We had this one too. Vegas told you this when
they made the Saints the favorites. Vega said he had
Saints are gonna win this game. Weird. I didn't hear
a whole lot from my dad about Jackson Dart this week.
Oh less this week, a lot significantly last this week,
which is interesting a game. He turned it over three
times in this game. But nice win. You gotta feel

(01:22:08):
I'm happy for the happy for the Saints. Chris A
Lave and I obviously this comes from my fantasy. Chris A.
Lave is in danger of doing something that I would
have to guess has never happened before. So Chris LaVey
right now is thirty three catches for two hundred and
forty four yards seven point four yards of catch. He's
a wide receiver. Here's his yards per catch by game

(01:22:32):
so far this season seven point seven nine point zero.
He had a ga where he had ten catch for
fifty seven yards. That's like a running back five point seven,
six point seven, eight point four. He has not had
a game in which he has had average ten yards
a catch yet. This is a wide is a first
round pick wide receiver. Yeah, everything's underneath. There's just nothing. Yeah,

(01:22:52):
bo for you.

Speaker 4 (01:22:53):
Dallas thirty seven the New York Football Jets, the lone
team without a win in the league twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
If Dak Prescot can somehow keep this team above float,
he deserves and he does. Anyway, he really deserves serious
MVP conversation because it's they are so decimated no CD LAMB,
and they win. They scored thirty five every game, Like,
it's pretty remarkable how he's playing.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
Right now that a should be in the MVP conversation.
So I just said, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 4 (01:23:19):
Welcome back.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
Now we'lcome back to Zura.

Speaker 4 (01:23:21):
Three Broncos twenty one Eagles seventeen. Eagles fall from the
ranks of the unbeaten.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Denver is not firing on all cylinders, and yet they're
still frisky and this was a big win for them.
There are a lot right now. Saquon Barkley is not
playing like Saquon Barkley running the football. Obviously, we know
the aj Brown thing. All is not well at this
point right in here for the Eagles. But you know,

(01:23:49):
this time a year ago they were three and two.
People are calling for their head. So they're ahead of
where they were a year ago to get things going.
There's too much talent on that side of Well, it's
a new offensive coordinator. He's clearly struggling. I think they'll
get it figured out.

Speaker 4 (01:24:02):
Me too, Bo Bishop, late window Titans twenty two, Cardinals
twenty one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
I didn't see any of the z told me how
this thing finished, like all the crazy one of the
craziest games.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
Yeah, I'm actually surprised you haven't seen or heard more
about what Gannon was doing on the side. Yeah, say
that that was a pretty alarming that video.

Speaker 4 (01:24:21):
Next, the best uniform matchup of the day, Buccaneers thirty
eight Seahawks thirty five.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
Sigurl, this is the game of the game. Tampa continues
to win games that if you get into people who
like this kind of stuff, if you get into the
EPA and all of this, like the Seahawks should have
won this game, but Tampa keeps finding a way to
win these games. And Baker Mayfield, Well, here's what's interesting,

(01:24:50):
and this is if you want to talk about a
certainly an MVP candidate, you talk about a change. One
of the things that you and I always talk about,
you know, with Baker, and it really has been kind
of the mo for his career, which is he has
not been great in those late game type of situations.
He truly has not. In fact, in his eight year

(01:25:13):
NFL career, he has fourteen game winning fourth quarter comebacks
and sixteen game winning drives, so he averages about to
a season. Yeah, he's had some seasons where he's had
none of those. He's all four of their wins have
been fourth quarter comebacks and game winning drives. He has
been clutch ye in those moments and they have been

(01:25:38):
very very good. Things are not as good as they
seem with them, but he is at the moments that
matter and that's why the sixty minute games, and you
need to be ahead when it gets to sixty. They've
done a great job. I'm curious see how they evolve.
But there's no denying that he is right now one
of the most fun quarterbacks to watch because he's throwing
a lot of balls that look like they're going to
pick by three people and they end up being eighty
yard touchdowns. But he is making play, he looks great.

(01:26:01):
Happy for him killing it and that clutchness though, that
breeds a confidence in a team that it doesn't matter
what's going on, we can win. So it'll be interesting
where they go. They're gonna win their division.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
All right, Lessons for both of these got these teams too.
I mean both Baker and Sam were on Carolina and
they both were sick and they get no either way.
And by the way, the two O High State receivers,
so they can play Jacks Smith seven one sixty three
for mech and eight for one thirty two for JSN.

Speaker 4 (01:26:27):
All right, Unfortunately, we've got to go to break here.
Lions thirty seven, Bengals twenty four Comedies beat the Chargers
twenty seven to ten, And Sunday Night Football Patriots Beat
the Bills twenty three to twenty. But we did talk
about that one yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
This month's one of the Local Business Platform presented by
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(01:26:58):
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Did you watch any of the Manning cast last night?

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
I did not me either. Craig been so good right
now They're so good and did not I know? I
did see the clip of when Heidi Gardner was reacting
real time to the pick six, which was kind of funny.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
But yeah, it's funny like it used to be something
I'd always go to first and get it, and I've
ran out of taste for it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:34):
It's strange. Well, we know why.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
We've talked about a lot, but it's it just like
if you're into the game.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
It's if it was just them, I'd certainly do it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, on to uh Pittsburgh tomorrow. Kids, gonna
be when is coach talk tomorrow?

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
Do you have that schedule?

Speaker 4 (01:27:52):
I want to say everything's moved up or move back.
I'm sorry, it's like late in the twelve o'clock hour.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
Okay, okay, yeah, that'll be. That'll be a fascinating press conference.
Obviously a big news y day on what is normally
an off day for the football for the team anyway,
the team is here, but the front office is here
for team is not so busy day today. We'll let
me see what Kevin has to say about that tomorrow.
Appreciate you listen, everybody. We are back tomorrow Cleveland Browns Daily.
We're presented by Bally Bette, official sportsmanning partner your Cleveland Browns.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
Please bet responsibly. Oh Happy Birthday, beamsy on a fifty
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Reacting to the Joe Flacco Trade - Cleveland Browns Daily - 10.7.25

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Reacting to the Joe Flacco Trade - Cleveland Browns Daily - 10.7.25