Did the Pandemic Ruin Dating?

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hi, I'm Adam Heathiftable and I'mSarah. This is the DKAS Podcast,
a podcast about love, sex,culture, and society. This week we'll
be examining whether or not the pandemicwe ruined dating. Enjoy the show.
Whether you're married, figgle or poor. Were hanging on with mans fact of

(00:22):
your places, listen to us andbeginning a tender and mumble up plenty of
young trying and trying and having toluck because we all know dating kind of
sucks. Thanks for joining us foranother episode of dating kind of sucks.
If you're new to DKs, myname is Adam and I'm a comedian,
writer, and misogynist turn feminist,joined by my co host Sarah, who

(00:44):
is a millennial travel junkie and serialdat now in a committed relationship. We're
not professionals, doctors, or experts, just two people sharing our perspectives on
the world of dating, sex,and relationships. The first half of every
episode is bent catching up on what'shappening in our lives, and the second
half is reserved for the episode's maintopic. So if that's all that brought
you here, you can skip throughthe halfway mark, or you can stick

(01:07):
around and enjoy the whole show.Let's get started. Well, hello,
here we are in almost it's almostSeptember. Where did August go? I
can't believe busy things were happening?Things? What things have been happening?
When we're back. We missed lastweek because my fault. I was in
a place. I was in ahotel. And what town was I in?

(01:30):
Got I don't know. I don'ttrying to remember. Knoxville, Yes,
Knoxville, Yes, I was inKnoxville. It's all blurring together now.
And the internet was just terrible.It was just so bad. Even
the phone call we were having,I was like, I'm going to lose
my mind if we record like this, and then we just decided not to.
Just things kept dropping like yeah,even if we tried to do it
through like just our just like anormal recording and stuff like yeah, it

(01:51):
just I think it would have drivenboth of us crazy. So we're like,
let's just push it back a week. And so here we are.
I'm now in a new town.I'm in Lexington, Kentucky now, and
we're recording and we're gonna should benormal schedule from here on because I don't
until you go away again, butwe'll extile I go away like I'm going
to prison for when you disappear againfor whatever. You know, your trips.

(02:16):
So what's what's been going on inthe last few weeks. It's been
three weeks. Let's see. Idid some traveling and I went to Portland,
Oregon to visit a friend. Andthis friend I went to college with
and she had a baby over thepandemic, so I got to meet her
daughter for the first time, whichwas really cool, and I had baby
fever for the first time. I'venever wanted children, and I met her

(02:39):
daughter and was like, oh mygod, I think I want a kid
too, And my friend had tokeep telling me, so, no,
you don't, I know, youknow, you don't. When we were
driving back, Roy and I weredriving back, and because he stayed with
his sister and I stayed with myfriends, so we kind of had the
weekend to ourselves, even though wewere still in the same city doing stuff

(03:00):
with different people. But when wewere driving back, I was talking to
him and I just kept telling him, you know, I kind of want
a kid. I don't know,maybe I'm losing my mind. And then
he just kept saying okay, uhhuh, yeah, I just let reality
set in a little bit once youget back to Seattle. And then I
was calling my other friend who hasa six month old, and she kept
telling me, no, you know, you don't want a kid. No,

(03:22):
you don't. It's really hard.Right now, it's cute, but
it's really hard. So I don'twant a kid. But that was the
first time I actually hung around athree year old and she was very well
behaved. She was so fun tohang out with. But you know,
that's life of being an aunt,where I just give her back to my
right, right, that's what youwant, is you want your brother to
have a kid, So that wayyou can go and be a cool aunt.

(03:43):
You bring all your cool shit fromdifferent travels and they get to think
you're awesome and you spend spend timewith them, and then you give them
back and that's that's the way togo. So like you you're the cool
uncle basically, yes, But youknow, my nephew is pretty's pretty bad.
So I'll be I'll be seeing himwhen I'm on Florida and it'll be
it'll be cool. I'll show up, I'll be cool. I'll bring some

(04:04):
type of gift that I'll get somethingthat'll be a message at his parents house,
you know, like gooper slime orone of those things, and then
and then I'll disappear again for godknows how long, perfect whatever kind of
uncle that you want. Yeah,so now I'm aunt Sarah to my daughter
or my daughter my friend's daughter.Oh my god, that's right there.

(04:24):
What was going on here? No, I'm not pregnant. I don't want
a kid. I've I've let thatafter seeing childcare costs and my friend telling
me all of the horror stories withthat, and then just being navigating being
a single mom, even though shedidn't plan for that, because you know,
no one really plans for that whenthey're pregnant with their partner, but
you know, that shit happens.And then just everything else with development and

(04:47):
needing assistance when things go raw,just all of the things is hard.
So yes, and I'm not readyfor that, and I don't think I
want that. Also, the environmentand what the world going to look like
in a hundred years, I don'tknow. But anyways, I had baby
fever a couple of weeks ago,so that happened. Yeah, you're telling
me about that? Was it waspretty interesting. I was like, what

(05:09):
the hell, where did I washolding off on telling you because I didn't
think you would believe me. No, No, it's it's still hard to
believe. But yes when you do. When you told me, I was
just like, Wow, that's all. That's not what I would ever expect
you to be. Yeah, sayyou of all people. Well, I've
been thinking, you know, thingsare pretty stable between Roy and I.
My job is chill. I likeliving here in Seattle. What's the next

(05:31):
step? And then all of asudden, I meet Mirabella and I'm like,
well, maybe that maybe a kid, but I mean I will admit
that when I see like like mynephew, and I was like, oh,
it would be cool to have oneof those hanging around, Like it'd
be cool to have, you know, because they they're a lot of fun,
you know. And when my whenI was you know, staying up
in Utah with my family and well, my neighbors at all kind of adopted

(05:54):
my my my dad and mom asa sergeant. Grandparents would bring the kids
over. They were fun to hangout with and you know, and everything.
I'd be like, I could seean alternate world where I had one
and that you know, I hada child and that being fun and you
know and having the fun, butthen I could also see all of the
expenses and all of the just theterror going with it as well. And

(06:14):
yeah, I mean think about allthe travel you wouldn't be able to do,
I know, And that's part ofit if I like my life.
And so my friend was explaining herher baby daddy basically wants to do a
lot of travel, and because he'sdad right now, he kind of wants
a little less hands on fatherhood.So she's like, go travel, do
what you want to do. I'mthe sole provider of our daughter anyways,

(06:38):
so if you want to do that, you can't. She's like, I'm
She's a very non traditional person whenit comes to parenting and things like that
too. She's like, if ifyou want summers with her, I can
have the rest of the year withher if you want this. So she's
navigating parenting very differently than my otherfriend who has a six month old right
now. Where they're married, theyhave a house, they have all these
things. So it's very interesting tosee, even though their kids are two

(06:59):
very different stages of life at thispoint, how they're parenting, and then
I'm thinking where do I fit in? What would I do? I don't
know? And then I'm like,wait, hold up, you know the
cost and everything else, what doyou I don't know. It was kind
of cool to imagine for the weekendwhat that might look like and then kind
of go back to reality. Yeah, right right there you go. Yeah,

(07:20):
there's a little vacation in your mindas well in my mind. Yes,
and I will still be Aunt Sarahto all of my friends kids,
so I'll get to enjoy that.But and now we're gonna have all the
burthers sending us angry emails about beinglike, but you don't understand the magic
and the wonder and how amazing itis and how it I'm sure, And

(07:41):
that's what I was all wrapped upin when I was having this moment of
how great would it be and ohmy god, look would they do all
the time and that would be sofun? And then you know it's the
reality of that's a percentage of it, yes, But then there's also the
other hardship that comes with it,and there's a transition that comes along with
that, and you know, hearingfor someone and yeah, maybe it's it's

(08:05):
like being single in a relationship,where like there's you know, there's there's
positives to both, there's stigmas tolike being single or whatever. It's like
the child free thing where there's there'sa positive element to everything and there's also
negatives, and you know, youpick your path and you can decide,
you know. I mean, youalso have plenty of time. Have you
decided in five years from now tochange your mind? You know? Right?

(08:26):
You know you could? Yeah?Absolutely. I mean, meanwhile,
Roy and I are talking about mybirth control options of I don't really want
to be on the pill anymore.And that's not because I want to be
pregnant. That's because I'm just reallysick of being on the pill. And
so we were talking about the possibilityof vasectomy for him or me switching to
a different type of birth control becausewe don't want to just use condoms.

(08:48):
So I don't know. So we'vebeen navigating that and then as we've been
having that conversation, all of asudden, baby fever came up, and
I'm like, what if I justget pregnant? Oh my god, I
mean it went there. It wentthere for about the day, and then
I saw Roy the following day andwe drove back and then he just kept
saying, Sarah, what did Atany point he be like, I could

(09:11):
just drive the car into an embankmentreally easily, Like if you want just
to end it all right now,He's like, what happened to last summer
when you were about to get anabortion because you thought you were pregnant?
Right? I don't know, butso that happened? Fun? And what
else is going on? I'm nowtaking pole dancing classes consistently at a studio,
which I've really enjoyed. So I'vetaken three right now, but I'm

(09:33):
signing up for a full on membership, so I'm going to be taking a
bunch of months, which will befun. Not only is a way to
meet new people, because I thinkthat's just more interactive than me working on
at my other workout studio I wasgoing to, but also a really challenging
and fun new hobby. After mythird class, I actually started picking up
on a lot of the moves.You know, there's a learning curve with

(09:54):
everything, and finally one of themoves just clicked and I was like,
holy shit, I can fucking dothis. This is all and other people
are really really encouraging, and Iwas like, yeah, I think I
want to continue this. So that'sfun. Just a lot more bruised up,
so that's cool. But and nowyou can you have the space behind
you could get a pole and justinstall it right there. I don't trust,
I don't trust anything in this house. Everything is fucking falling apart all

(10:18):
the time. No, no,if you can't tell Patreon Sarah Pole dancing
on our Patreon. I mean,the ceiling is low enough in here that
it would probably work, but Idon't know. You have to get a
really sturdy one because I've seen thosevideos online where people are on the pole
and then the pole just falls off, you know, just oh yeah,

(10:39):
laps right down on their head.Yeah. Yeah, So with my membership
I can get They had these openpole studio sessions where you can just anyone
can go in at that time thatthey're open for that and just do tricks
and do whatever. So I thinkthat's what I'm going to take advantage of
instead of buying my own pole andtrying to potentially dyeing year with the pole

(11:00):
falling or something. Yeah, letme pass on that. But yeah,
I get a good call. Yeah, so I've been doing that. And
then Roy and I actually just tooka trip to the Olympic Peninsula, which
is like the Thumb. They callit the Thumb of Washington because it's just
that little part on the northwestern side. So we went to Forks, Washington,
which was actually a lot more funthan I those people who don't know

(11:22):
it is the home of Twilight,which I also know this because I'm a
huge Twilight fan. But you area fine Okay, Oh yeah, I
read all the books before they werepopular. Like I read the first one
I remember, and I was like, this is actually pretty decent so as
as and then they hadn't made themovie or anything yet, and I really
enjoyed it. So I think shehad the first two books out before it
like really kind of took off.And I was like, she can write.

(11:43):
She writes good characterizations, like sheknows how to write feelings. Well.
She's terrible at plodding and terrible ataction and terrible at a lot of
things, but Stephanie Meyers knows howto write like how people feel and how
they react to feelings very well.Yeah, I read all of it.
That was probably and I was tellingRoy. This is probably the first book
series that I really got into.I wasn't a Harry Potter kid, and

(12:05):
I never went to the book releases, you know, and they had the
midnight release of a new book forHarry Potter or whatever. Twilight was the
first one I actually thought about goingtoo, because I was really into it,
but I never did, you know. But so going to Forks and
seeing it, Roy had been therebefore, so you kind of let me
know. It's not a lot there. It's a town of five thousand people.

(12:26):
They run off of Twilight tourism.Don't expect a lot here, so
my expectations were lowered. So Ijust went in with it to have a
good fucking time, and I swearI laughed the entire fucking time I was
in Forks. We just poked funa lot of things. And I am
a big fan of the books,and I think the movies are fun to
watch and for what they are,you know, they're not the books.

(12:48):
But we just we made We tooka lot of stupid photos. They had
all of these cutouts of all ofthe characters, and every year they have
a Twilight Festival where some of theno name characters come into town and sign
up posters and stuff. So theyhad you know, Sam's wife who got
a you know who got attacked orwhatever. They had a big poster of
her and she had signed it duringthe Forks Festival or whatever. So they

(13:11):
had characters like that who come back. And then we went to the Push
because that's also part of you know, the Twilight story. So we went
to the Push and walked around andwe were like, oh, there's werewolves
out here, and just having justbeing like a kid again. It was
really fun, and I low keywant to go to Oregon now where they
actually filmed most of the movie,and a couple of different places. They

(13:31):
actually have a Twilight House slash Airbnbwhere you can rent it out and stay
in Bella's room. And yeah,so low key I want to do that
for my birthday. I haven't toldRoby about it yet, but I was
like, wouldn't that be fun?Maybe just for me, but I don't
know. I thought it was funnyand we had a good time and we
went we went hiking into a lotof other things, and my expectations for

(13:54):
this trip were also relatively low.I wasn't like, this is gonna be
an amazing trip. I thought thiswill be cool, but in a ended
up being so much better than Iexpected. And Bruna had a lot of
time to just drive everywhere and justchat about things, and I don't know,
it was a good trip for thetwo of us. Well, that's
fun. That's really nice that Iremember the when the movies came out.

(14:15):
That was right when I was inthe middle of having my affair and I
went to the movies with with theperson I had the affair with the wines,
I go see one of them,and there was a whole team Jacob
versus Team Edward things, right,and I remember like we were kind of
having a like a genuine discussion ofit, like like her husband versus me,

(14:35):
because her husband was like a kindof a tall, like kind of
skinny, pale guy and then likeI'm the hairy one, you know,
and so I was like team Jacobthe all the way, and you know,
it was just it was it waskind of like this weird subtext that
we were talking about about her choosingbetween her husband and me, and and
yeah, it's crazy. So that'sone of the memberies I had from that.

(14:56):
But it's quick when you can havefun trips like that. You know,
Amy and I we took a tripwhen we lived in Saint Louis and
were in law school. Would taketrips sometimes just to small towns that had
like a few things to do,like Hannibal, Missouri, which was Mark
Twain's hometown, Samuel Clemon's hometown.Like we went there with no expectations.
We just had like a hotel forlike a couple nights, and like they
had like there was this guy thathad a miniatures museum in his house.

(15:18):
Like it was like so he hadmade all the like all the Mark Twain
characters into like little miniatures, andhe had all their little things like dioramas
that he had created. But itwas in his house and you had to
go into his house to actually seeit, which was really bizarre. You
know, like all these little thingsthat we would we went in. We're
trying to be and like we're laughingat it because we're also enjoying it,
but we're trying not to like insultthe people behind that you were doing this,

(15:41):
because because you don't want to.You know, they put a lot
of work into this and everything likethat. But you know that stuff can
be a lot of fun when youlike have someone who's willing to kind of
be goofy about it and isn't gonnalike roll their eyes and stuff too.
Yeah. No, once I toldhim, and we're gonna go to the
Bella Swan House and we're gonna dothis. Roy had no idea there were
all of these other stops you couldmake in Forks. He just thought it
was the main visitor center and thatwas it. And I was like,

(16:02):
no, there's the museum, thenthere's this and this. He's like,
we'll do it. If you wantto do it, that's fine, and
he just embraced it, which Iwas not expecting. And even when we
went to Port Angelis, where partof the book was written where she has
dinner her first date with Edwards thereor whatever, he's like, do you
want to eat there? If youwant to, we can go eat there.
You know, it didn't have greatreviews, but we ended up not

(16:23):
eating there, but he was ifyou want to do it, we'll do
it, which was really fun.So well, that's that's awesome. Yeah,
very very nice. And do youhave anything coming up on any travel
coming up? Soon? His momand stepdad are coming into town, so
we're gonna do. They'll be herefor a week in September, so we're
gonna go stay at a couple ofairbnbs around the Pacific Northwest and just check

(16:48):
out some new places that I haven'tbeen to yet. But no like international
travel in the next month, notin the next month, but before the
end of the year. Yes,but well that's I've been, you know,
obviously on the road. I spentmy last before I was in Knoxville.
I was outside Nashville for a littlebit and I was stayed with her

(17:10):
friend, a friend's place. Shehad a cabin in the middle of the
like in the middle of nowhere.I was out in fifty acres and it
was it was cool getting to replace, like driving to replace, because like
he turned down a road and thenall of a sudden, it's a little
dirt road and it's like small onelane, like you know, like if
another car comes, you basically haveto kind of pull almost all the way
off the road, you know.And I'm like, I really like it
if here and I get up toher cabin and it's like this huge cabin

(17:32):
that this guy built. It's likeher best friend's grandfather built it. And
then he died and he left itto her and like his will, so
her best friend has it and waslike, no one lives there, so
she's like, let's make it livable. I'd like you, you know,
once, so she's just living there. Now. Wait, but this is
the house that you bought the aircondition air conditioner for it, so so
the a C wasn't wasn't working,so I bought the a C. U

(17:53):
didn't send it to her, andI was like, you know, this
will be this is your house foremangift, but I'm gonna monopolize. That
went on there well, they actuallyended up preparing the AC because they were
worried about as warm as it was, they're worried about the potential of mold.
Uh if the a C wasn't running, because you can get to you
know, get in your vents andstuff like that. So they fixed the
AC and get that you know runningas well to keep make sure they avoided
any mold issues. And so thatwas that was that was actually ended up

(18:17):
being nice and comfortable the entire time, which was fantastic. And then she
had an air mattress in her guestroom for me to sleep on that had
a slow leak, and so thefirst She's like, I don't know if
at least or not, but itmight. So the first night, yeah,
so basically I was sleeping it andI woke up in the middle of
the night and I was like,I was like, it was like I
was in the inside of a taco. Basically, like the the middle of

(18:40):
course that I was sleeping on hadyou know, flattened underneath me, and
then both sides had wrapped up aroundme. And then just imagine like me
just like trying to like get outof this, Like, how do you
get any period getting out of it? Yeah? Yeah, I mean anybody,
but it was really hard to getout of I was like trying to
roll, but you can't really rollbecause literally they like you're you're like encased
on both sides. I know,it would have been ridiculous to try to

(19:03):
see if anybody had seen that.What I ended up doing was reaching in
front of me and turning the pumpback on and just letting it like inflate
while I was on top of it, and it just slowly filled all the
way back up again. So thenI just basically every like three hours had
to reinflate it enough that I cansleep on it. So I didn't sleep
great the entire time I was there. I will say that I can't imagine.
But we had a good time.She made me hike, you know.

(19:25):
It was one of those things likewe went out to get some food
and then came back and she wantedto show the whole property. So she
went to the I want to showyou this lake that I had that I
also was on the property. Sohe parked and she's like, yeah,
it's just over the hill. Yeah, over the hill and like another hundred
yards away, and you know,yeah, ridiculous. But it wasn't that
bad. When we talked on thephone, it was we ask but oh

(19:45):
my god, that was not Thatwas not how you described it on the
phone. You were like, andI went hiking. I was like,
oh, good for you. Howwas it. It wasn't that bad?
And now you're complaining. Okay,now I'm complaining. Yes, in retrospect,
it was terrible. I was hiking. Well, I also wasn't.
I was wearing my dress shoes atpoint because I didn't know we were going
to go on a hike. Butthen later we went down so she the

(20:06):
house overlooks like you can't call ita creek. It's a crick because it's
in Tennessee. Overlooks overlooks a crickthat is down in the holler because it
is like literally like it's a littlehollerer. It's the hollow. That's like
that's what they call the holler.Yeah, it's yeah, So there's a
crick down on the holler. Andbut it's a it's a walk to get

(20:27):
down there because like it from herher like balcony like it looks it's just
it drops straight down and like there'sa cave system there and everything too.
You could like look into this caveis really cool. But we went down
there and she wanted to do somephotos and other guys that were doing photo
shooting. It was funny because Iwas, I was, you know,
telling her that you know, sometimespeople are like I've you know, matched

(20:48):
with women before who tell me ondata, Well, I don't like the
idea of you taking naked you know, photos of women that are naked,
because you know, you just likeyou know, it just seems weird.
What if you want to have sexwith them and stuff like that. I'm
like, I'm not trying to havesex with them. But also I don't
think sometimes people realize how decidedly unsexylike photography can be. Like, you
know, like it is ninety degrees, we are both just sweating, like

(21:12):
it is just miserably sweating. There'smosquitoes everywhere, you know, Like there's
just bugs buzzing all over the place, even though we sprayed bug spray,
and like, you know, she'strying to like, you know, avoid
being too dirty because like she youknow, she wants the photos to look
good, but also like like she'slaying in the crick and I'm trying to
like get in there and get agood angle and take pictures and like trying
to avoid sweating on her, youknow, and she's just like you know,
and she's in this water and she'slike the bugs all over, running

(21:34):
all over, you know, andit is just not a sexy scene.
Like there there was no point inthat that I was like, oh this
is hot, you know, like, you know, even though the photos
came out looking really you know,really sexy, the actual you know,
scene of it happening is is decidedlyjust Yeah. There's there's never a time
that you're like, oh, yeah, this is the yeah, now so

(21:55):
turned on. I think about thetrain situation where you're like, I'm trying
not to get arrested. Yeah,exactly. Yeah. I mean half the
time, it's just like it's like, yeah, you get a little burst
of adrenaling. You're trying to takesome photos and stuff like that. And
even when I've done ones like inthe studio, like you know, change
my one of my rooms into astudio or whatever, it's still like you've
got lights, you've got you know, like there's just not a it's not

(22:15):
a sexy thing. And I sometimeswish that some of the women that I
matched with who said that, likethey're kind of getting a little closed minded
about it. And I think evenguys sometimes think that it, oh,
that must be so hot. Youknow, you're sitting there taking pictures of
naked women. I was like,dude, it's really not like you're really
just like can we get this ona chair? Just snapping photos, chilling,
you know, you're down trying toget yeah, yeah, oh yeah,
I'm like I'm like, yeah,I'm like knee deep in the at

(22:37):
one point, I was, yeah, knee deep in the water, like
trying to get a picture. Youknow, it's yeah, it's just it's
not a fun thing all the time. So that was just kind of entertaining
I think about. But yeah,and so and then here I am and
uh and Lexington. Now I wasa knoxvill for a week, visited with
a friend of mine from from TikTok. I was good seeing her. And
on Lexington, I'm seeing my exand AKA dirty Dancing. So we've got

(23:00):
got plans to go out this weekand then I'm going to be going to
her. I think she'd invite meover for dinner at her house. I
hope it's her husband cooking, becauseshe's a terrible cook. I mean every
time she would ever send pictures ofthings that she cooked, they were burned.
I mean, and you know thisis granted what she was saying.
Not all food photography is great.No, no, no, it was

(23:22):
terrible, but you know, likebut she also subsisted mostly on a diet
of taco bell so I don't knowhow she she said, you know,
she would be cooking anything. SoI think her husband's cooking, which I'm
down for that. I would trusthis cooking more than hers. I told
her this, by the way,too, So this is not me like
throwing her under the bus. No, but she invited me over for dinner.
I was like, I was like, as long as you're not you're
not the one cooking. But yeah. And then so I went from Lexington

(23:48):
to Charlotte for a week and thendown to Orlando and be there for about
five six weeks and get all mygetting my ship out of my storage unit,
and then head up to tuls movingdate of October twenty, twenty ninth
time is taken. I know,I know I'm gonna miss Halloween really because
I'm gonna be in the middle ofmoving unfortunately. But hopefully I can get

(24:12):
up there just early enough, justat least be able to be able to
go out and enjoy the downtown areafor Halloween and see what it's like.
What did you settle on because wewere talking about downtown versus oh god,
yeah, and then I remember andthen oh yes, And then I kept
calling you because I kept having allof these like I was having so many
crisis of like just trying to figureout what the fuck I was gonna It
was crazy. I did not expectthat from you, honestly, I know,

(24:34):
well you know this is it's it'sa big decision. It is a
year, you know, it's ayear of my time. And then you
know, we were talking about pricesbecause then I was looking at like,
okay, this is it's on thehigher end of my budget, but like
I could stay at this really coolluxury place and have a giant apartment,
you know, have a you know, thirteen hundred score foot twelve hundred store
foot apartment. And then you're likedo you really need that? Though,
Like are you are you really showingthat? Like who's gonna be there to

(24:56):
see it? You know, you'regonna have that at rich initial excitement of
being like, oh, look,here's like a cool apartment, but then
like it's just gonna be you livingthere. And I was like, okay,
that's true. And then I startedthinking, well, then if it's
just gonna be me, do Ineed to be downtown? Maybe I should
look for more bang for my buckand look out in the suburbs and look,
you know, somewhere where I oror somewhere that's not that's like on
the outscorch of downtown and be like, you know, like where I can

(25:19):
get like a condo for you know, for cheaper it's like a town home.
You know, or go out andget a house and get it and
get a house and say, youknow, at a house for for really
cheap, you know, like athousand bucks a month. I can get
it, you know, and geta house. And then I saw I
was just all over the place.And then I was calling. I was
like, I don't know what todo, Like, I really, what
about this one? What do youthink about this one? I'm like,
oh my god, pick one.You have six options? What the fuck?

(25:42):
Yeah? I know. So sofinally I was like, no,
I've never lived downtown. I've neverand you know, taken advantage of the
opportunity to live downtown. This isa place I can do that. As
long as I don't want to spendon the higher end of my budget,
I can still spend in the middleof my budget and and do that.
So I found a place that inone of the luxury apartment complexes that is

(26:02):
within the middle of my budget,and that's reasonable, and it's it's doesn't
you know, it doesn't put meout too much to to live there.
It's a one bedroom place, soit's you know, it's just got the
room. You know, it's gota main one room. And then the
main bedroom and the kitchen and everything. That washroom drager than unit. It's
very nice, you know, it'sall fancy shit and everything like that.
But and they happen to have oneavailable for for the time that I was

(26:23):
looking, and so that's what Ihave. So I'm silas now. Yes
I've got a place Downfall. It'son the first floor, which is cool,
that's fine with me. Downfall isthat it faces the pool and the
two there's two windows, two bigwindows, one in the bedroom and one
in the living room, and soeveryone constantly basically like because I hate shutting

(26:45):
my blinds, like I like,I like in the hotel room, like,
I keep them open so that likethe morning light wakes me up.
I like to have morning light,Like it's just a thing that I really
enjoy because I've always grown up withthat. And every place I've ever lived
my bedroom is faced like the backyardor whatever, you know, So it
doesn't matter. So it's gonna befacing the pools. I'm gonna have to
figure that out. Well, thinkabout winters. People aren't going to be

(27:07):
out there. It's just and Idon't know exactly how like how on the
pool it is like you know,it might be recessed with bushes in front,
you know, like it might notbe as like bad as right now
I'm picturing. But right now I'veoh fully aware. It doesn't mean I'm
gonna change a thing I'm gonna doabout it, but I am fully aware.
Okay, And then it's gonna comedown to trying to decorate the place.

(27:30):
Yeah, you know, kind ofget all the stuff that I need.
So back to being a normal adult. Yeah, for a little while,
at least, Yeah, a year, for a year, and then
we'll see what happens. Maybe it'llbe like fuck it, I'm buying an
RV stand the road permanently. Soyeah. So that's a little catch up
on what's what we've been up to, and we're gonna take a break in

(27:55):
a minute. Before we do,we got a very nice email that I
thought I would share, and Idon't know if you want to. I
was gonna say, you can emailus if you want to send us an
email at Dating kind of Sucks podcast. Yeah, Dating kind of Sucks Podcast
at gmail dot com. I don'tknow why it's been so long since we've
done this that she's forgotten all.I was like, no, that's the
email. Ye. Yes, youcan email us at Dating kind Of Sucks

(28:18):
Podcast at gmail dot com. Youcan also leave a voicemail, and we
are almost at the end of voicemails, I think, after this episode.
So it is important that if youhave any questions, any you want to
say, please right now call theDKs outline at four oh seven five one
nine zero one eight one and leaveus a voicemail. But this is an
email from Michael, and I'm gonnago ahead and read it right now.

(28:42):
So Michael says, Hi, there, I'm a casual listener on DKs and
enjoyed your most recent Barbie episode,which was fantastic. Just casual listener means
he just like looks through episodes andhe's like, I don't know if I'll
listen to this one or not.That's fair. Yeah, this is interesting,
this doesn't Yeah, so many greatpoints made throughout this conversation. So
many of society's issues are perpetuated bymen, white men especially. Not all

(29:07):
men are this way, however,and when he wrote this part, I
was like, oh, oh,oh, not all men because like,
obviously he's getting into it. Buthe goes, not all men are this
way. However, there is morethat are than aren't. As a fifty
year old white guy, I hatethat so many issues exists from twisted,
dysfunctional white males. Working to reprogrammy thought process as I have gotten older
in the world's changing on, ourculture is programmed and men towards women.

(29:30):
I deeply feel saddened that so manymen have destroyed women in the past and
continue to feel threatened whenever something womenlike or feel proud of or accomplish,
or if they call out men forsomehow getting away with a bad behavior.
This goes to prove how insecure menare as a whole. Men as a
whole should be partnering of women andsee both sexes bring a lot of value.

(29:51):
We're better together and could do somuch more for good if we all
work together and recognized and respected ourdifferences. This shouldn't tear us apart,
but make us stronger as a society. Men as a whole need to look
in the mirror and take responsibility forour role in how things in our society
have arrived as have arrived where wehave. Thanks for your podcast. Keep

(30:11):
up your great work. People arelistening, so thanks Michael. Yeah,
it's a very nice email. Andit is something sometimes and I get this
a lot on TikTok, whereas peoplewill be like, well, you know
your your messages on TikTok. Youknow, I know there are four men,
but are men actually listening? Andyou know, it does seem that
I have a larger you know,women audience than I do men men in
my audience. And so it's it'sI'm like, I don't know, but

(30:33):
this is a good it's nice tohave, you know. Yeah, yeah,
some social proof there, Yeah,from you know, from someone who's
a little bit older as well too, not just because I would definitely say
that a lot of younger men listenand who you know who are more willing
to listen, But for someone alittle bit older to be willing to listen
and think about that and and reprogramis probly just thought process. I think
it's very important. And so Iappreciate the time to take the for the

(30:56):
email. Yeah, I want morefeedback like that. If you liked an
episode, if you think we missthe mark on an episode or whatever,
you can always email us or giveus a call on our hotline which is
four oh seven five one nine zeroone eight one to let us know,
or of course email they any kindof sucks a podcast at Gmail time.
We're gonna keep saying this because wewant you to actually send in information.

(31:17):
It's you know, it's funny.I know this is another sorry tangent,
but Sirius XM. I listen toit all the time. They have this
thing on All Nation where they wantpeople to leave voice recordings, so they
they're like just recording instead of doinga voicemail thing. They just say,
do a voice recorder on your phoneand then email to us and we'll play
it on air. And they onlyplay you know, like maybe like three

(31:37):
a day that I hear, whichmeans with their audience of thousands and thousands
of people, they can probably onlyget you know, like, oh yeah,
there's like a dozen people you knowa day maybe to send them in
if that you know. And I'mlike so that I know, it's hard
for us, with our small audiencecompared to you know, serious XM to
get people to do this, butyou know, it means a lot when
people to take the time to calland leave a voicemail and we're in an

(32:01):
email and we're gonna take a quickbreak and we come back we actually have
a an actual voicemail and another emailfrom someone. We're gonna answer those in
lieu of what's to see with SarahG. Because Sarah GI has seen it
all now, because we're just takinga break this week and I'm gonna do
this instead, so we'll be rightback. Well in lieu of what to

(32:22):
see with Sarah G this week,we, like Adam had already mentioned,
we are going to be sharing avoicemail and an email from dk s ers
like you. So this first calland only call actually, because the next
one's an email comes from Lexi andwe'll play it and then we'll go from
there. Hey, y'all, soI was wondering. I've been dating this

(32:44):
guy for about a year now,and we haven't had the conversation of if
we're boyfriend and girlfriends. We haven'thad that explicit conversation yet, but we
have already made it clear that we'redating each other exclusively. And I think
that somebody that I want to bein a relationship with, but also I
feel like this guy, like hedoesn't take me out enough. And we've

(33:08):
been having the conversation of you know, I want our meetups and our time
sense together to be more intentional,and we've had this conversation for a few
months now, I feel like I'mjust not getting back. So based off
of that information, is this arelationship that I should even be trying to

(33:29):
pursue if I'm not even getting,you know, the basic planning to go
out to date, because I don'twant it to be just a sex situation,
but I feel like we're not goingout and dating enough if we are
actually meeting exclusively, you know.So that's my question for y'all. Should
I even be trying to pursue arelationship if I'm already not getting what I

(33:52):
want to make me feel to makeme feel comfortable about going to the next
level? Thank you guys for muchabove the show. My name is Lexi.
What are your thoughts, Adam?Well, basically, this sounds very
problematic. It sounds like she kindof knows like she's been trying to ask
him to be in a relationship andhe's been kind of giving noncommittal answers,

(34:15):
and so instead of just like makinghim answer, she's just kind of not
willing. She's like she's afraid toask for the real truth is what it
sounds like to me. So,Lexie, you've been dating for a year
now and you haven't had the conversation. If your boyfriend a girlfriend or if
you're in a relationship, you don'thave to say boyfriend a girlfriend. You
can there's a variety or the thingsyou can say. But if you make

(34:37):
it clear you're not dating other anyoneelse and you're dating each other exclusively,
then what else is left? Andso I think that it's time to have
that conversation and say, listen,I want this to be like an official
relationship. I don't want this tobe this weird limbo where you're like,
we're not we're exclusive with each other, but we're not gonna say boyfriend a
girlfriend? Ha ha haa, Likewhy not? What is what's holding him

(34:59):
back? She doesn't sound particularly happyeither. There's things she's not going they're
not going on dates, like shewants to go on dates. There's something
missing. It sounds like it's mostlysex, right because she does actually like
I think she even said that,like go on dates because she doesn't want
it to be just a sex situation. So it does kind of sound like

(35:20):
maybe he's just getting laid and sohe's willing exclusively so he's willing to be
exclusive his need his needs fulfilled,and maybe doesn't want to put the effort
into actual relationship. Yeah, hedoesn't want the relationship aspect, just the
sex part and feeling like he hasa companion when she's around, and then
he can go on to just behis own person without fucking anybody else,

(35:43):
right, which is fine if that'swhat they both want. But I think
after a year of being in thatsituation with no clarity, you either end
it or you make dramatic changes becauseit's it's just not sustainable and there's no
communication on where you're at, whichI think after a year you probably need

(36:07):
to communicate that, and if youcan't, then it's not going to work.
Absolutely. I think that it's it'sreally time to kind of put your
foot down there and draw a littleline and say, here's what I need
out of this thing that we have. Number one, let's define it,
and number two, let's start treatingit like relationship. Let's actually go out

(36:28):
and do things, because that soundslike you're not getting fulfilled because you want
to go on dates and he isnot doing that. So that's obviously a
problem. And he might have ananswer you don't want. He might not
be willing to put the effort in, or maybe he just thinks you're happy
because he's happy. And men sometimesproject, and when they project, they
project both negative things and positive things. So maybe like, oh, this

(36:50):
works for me, so why wouldn'tit work for you? Like it might
be in his brain until you explicitlyare like, dude, this is not
you know, I don't want tojust have sex. I want to actually
have fun out, you know,dancing and going to the restaurants, go
to the movies, whatever you're goingto do. I think he needs to
hear that explicitly from you. Iagree. I think he's probably fine.
The exclusivity part of it was finewith like where you guys are at currently.

(37:14):
So he might be like, oh, this isn't working. What's the
next thing you know she wants?That's cool. I'm game for stepping up
and being more of a relationship typeof person. But yeah, like you
said, if he hasn't had hadto think about that, then it might
not have crossed his mind. Hecould be open to it, but you
have to have that conversation. Yeah, absolutely, So good luck with that.

(37:36):
Had that chat with him, talkedto him and then give us a
call back and let us know whathappens, let us know how, you
know, how when or what's happeningwith it. You know, I've asked
I realized we've asked several people wholike no one I know, no one
ever tells us what actually happened,and I never know what. We're always
left hanging, and like, Idon't want to be left hanging. I
want to hear what actually ends uphappening. But so yeah, good luck

(37:58):
with that. It's going to bea toss that you're a tough conversation,
I think, but hopefully you mean, hopefully you'll get the answer that you
that you need. Yeah, okay, that was from you. Two can
call and leave a voicemail. Don'tbe afraid, don't be afraid. Call
us back Row seven five one ninezero one eight one. It only takes

(38:19):
you a minute. You just callthe number. It goes right to voicemail,
and it's not like we're going topick up because it's an automated voicemail
system, so it just goes rightthere. You just leave your message,
say your names, your question,and you're done. And so just go
ahead and do that right now,and then we'll wait wait for your to
dial right now, yes, rightnow, Yes to put a pause the
episode, do it and then comeback. And now we're going to have

(38:40):
an email from Ben who's asking forsome advice right and you can email us
at Dating kind of Sucks Podcast atgmail dot com. You don't have to
do that right this second, butat the end of the episode, when
you're thinking, wow, this episodereally impacted my life in a certain way,
let us know by emailing us exactlyall right, and let's begin with

(39:01):
Ben's emails. So, I juststarted listening to your podcast recently, and
I've really been enjoying you guys.I just came off of a three month
situation ship that ended with me realizingthat my needs weren't being met and that
I really wanted a committed slash seriousrelationship. Now I'm back in the dating
circuit. The thing that concerns meis that I've seldom come across from a

(39:22):
first date feeling like I was totallyexcited about a second date. I'm wondering
if that's normal or if I havesomething going on that I need to address.
For example, i met a girlat my favorite bar, the other
night and went up and started makingconversation. She was very easy to talk
to and we had fun chatting witheach other. I remember thinking in my
head, if she asked for mynumber, I'll give it, but I

(39:43):
don't know if I'm interested enough toask for hers. Eventually I asked for
her number. Anyways, what doyou guys think about how to decide whether
or not someone is worth more investment? Is it normal to feel lukewarm with
everyone at the beginning? All right, so what do you think is it
normal to feel lukewarm with everyone atthe very I don't think it's a bad
thing to feel lukewarm with people atthe beginning. I honestly you disagree they

(40:07):
do, but okay, I meanhear you. I don't think it's the
worst thing to be luke if you'remaybe maybe. And this gets into our
topic of pandemic dating. But there'sbeen people that I actually really grew tolike
that I wasn't super like head overheels with Oh my god, they're so
great with this, They're so youknow. I was a little excited,

(40:28):
but not like incredibly rose colored glasses. I think as I've matured, I've
just accepted the person for who theywere the first time I met them,
Like, oh, they were acool person. And that that's me being
saying lukewarm of. I thought theywere cool. We enjoyed our time.
It wasn't all of these butterflies orfeelings or whatever the first time we hung

(40:50):
out, But that was That's howI define lukewarm of. They were cool.
I would see them again, youknow, nothing, nothing bad to
say, why not? And itwas more of the why not that I
can I went on a second daywith them right right. And I know
we talked about this before too,about the going like with the why not
for the second date. I thinkfor me, I've had enough situations where

(41:10):
I have hit it off with someoneand not even on a dating context,
just like met somebody out or afriend of a friend or just had a
bit an event or something and hitit off with like with a woman and
we just immediately like just had thislike energy, you know, and like
a synergy almost that you click reallywell, and you're like, oh,
this is someone I could talk toyou all the time, and like when

(41:30):
I really am excited, I wantto talk to them again. I want
to meet them, you know,and I've had that with with I would
say a decent number of people,and so for me, if you don't
have that, then but Lukewarm doesn't. Do you define luke warm as your
conversation clicks? Is there? No, I just like luke warm is just

(41:52):
like I was like, Okay,if I never see this person again,
I'm not really gonna care, butif you know, maybe next time it'll
it'll be just as you know,be Okay, Okay, maybe maybe I
define it differently. I think it'slike there's the high high of oh my
god, I'm so infatuated with thisperson, everything was fantastic whatever, and
then underneath that is they were cool. I thought we got along really well.

(42:15):
I think Lukewarm maybe falls underneath thatof myth. Is that just a
myth? Yeah? I think it'sa kind of men. But it might
be like a like, okay,they were cool, like they're not.
So I didn't hate them, youknow, It's like it's like you know,
I did. There was no redflags. There was nothing that made
me want to walk away. Butthere's nothing that made me want to continue
the date later or like or youknow, like keep going to the next
location, or you know like itwas it was a good conversation and you

(42:38):
know that was that was about it, and you know, and I'll probably
if I didn't think about that personagain in six months, I'll probably forget
that it even happened. Okay,that's what lukewarm to me. Okay,
then I just define that differently becauseif it's not a funck, yes,
it's a fuck No. I guessit goes back to that where then so
my mine is like three tiered it'shell, yes they were cool and then

(43:00):
me. So I guess lukewarm fallsin the meh now for me, yeah
yeah, but if for you,if if you have, if you had,
you know, if you you approacha little bit differently, that could
make sense. Yeah. So Iguess I the met category was always I'm
not going to see them again,which then answers the question maybe you shouldn't
see it right? Yeah, Iknow that. Uh, that's like it

(43:20):
makes sense with your with your definitionof it. I would say like for
bends like situation too, like youcan sometimes just enjoy just chatting with someone
and they don't. It doesn't alwayshave to be a date related, you
know, it doesn't like you cansometimes you can just enjoy it and just
be like, oh, this wouldbe a cool person to talk to.
And it doesn't have to have romanticties to it either, So keep that

(43:43):
in mind, you know, AndI think that it is if you're finding
that you have a lot of lukewarmeverything's been lukewarm, like you're just not
really it sounds they can maybe you'renot really in the just in the place
to really want a date right noweither, you know, you just kind
of want yep. Yeah, whichis which is okay too, Like it's
good to take breaks from dating,like it really is. Otherwise you burn

(44:05):
yourself out pretty damn fast. Yeah, and I think too, if he
was already thinking in his head,I don't really know if I want to
give my number to her, thendon't. Then don't. Then don't give
your number, don't ask for it, just enjoy whatever the conversation was,
and then go on your way.Even though he did. But yeah,
and I in an ideal world,I also think that you would want to.

(44:27):
I mean, maybe it's just becauseI'm maybe I'm a romantic in that
sense, but like when I whenI meet somebody and really click with them,
like I'm like, oh, Iwant to talk to this person all
night long. I want to wakeup at mid next to them and make
them coffee, like you know,like it's it's a it's a desire to
be with them and talk and likejust spend time with them like and it's
it's it's a very compelling feeling.It's very you know, very strong.

(44:49):
And so when I when I havethose moments, if I compare anything else
to those moments, that's like,why would I even bother continue to talk
to this person if I don't havethat compel, that compulsion, Like,
is that someone I'm really gonna wantto talk to a week from now?
Like is that is that? Isthis someone that I'm already gonna be bored
with? That makes sense? That'sthat's how I approach it. Yeah,
And I also say, anyone youtalk to, don't you don't always have

(45:12):
to look at it as a romanticinterest either, rights as the friendship stands.
I will also say, when yousaid I'll make them coffee, I
think you're gonna say I'll make themcome. Like my mind, I was
like, Oh, he's been romantic, not I'll make them come. It
kind of surprised me. No,make them coffee in the morning. Sweet,

(45:35):
one of my favorite things to everdo is you know, really set
up and get up and yeah,yeah, that's always because it's amazing how
many women have stayed the night whothen the next morning like you're the first
person to ever makee, like makeme coffee. Like it's just crazy that
there were so many one that whohave said that, who have actually had
that experience, They've never had anybodyeven take the like make the effort to
do so. I was just watchingthe office just as as work and uh,

(46:00):
and Jim makes pay him like agrilled cheese sandwich because they're staying late
at work and they're sitting up onthe roof eating and she goes, it's
been so long since somebody's ever mademe. They're like, you know,
made a meal for me or madeyou know whatever to obviously referring because you
At this point, she's still datingor engaged to Roy. But I just
realized his name is Roy. Ijust realized that. I didn't even think

(46:22):
think about it, And I waslike, because I don't know an your
roys and I didn't even put thattogether. But she still engaged to Roy,
and of course he's a terrible youknow, a terrible fiance and boyfriend
and everything like that. But Iwas just like thinking about the same type
of thing, like, how manywomen have dated men who have never the
men have never taken the effort toeven try to provide for them in anything,
you know, in any real way, any any like concerning way.

(46:44):
So yeah, that was a weirdtangent. But coffee and come, you
know me, that's where my'm coffeeand come. So there you go,
Ben, good luck with that.Take a break, give yourself a breath,
breathing space from dating for a littlewhile, and then when you really
kind of wanting to do it again, you can get back into it.
I think that's the best solution foryou. I agree, all right,

(47:06):
So with that, yes, onceagain, you can go ahead and call
and leave a voicemail at four ohseven five one nine zero one eight one
while we take a break. Sothere's going to be like a you know,
couple minutes of commercials. Yeah,just enough time for you to leave
a call, leave a voicemail oremails at Dating consec Podcast at gmail dot
com. When we come back,we're going to talk about whether or not

(47:27):
the pandemic has ruined dating, asAdam and I always do our research and
come up with topics well in advance, not really. I was having dinner
with one of my friends here inSeattle, and she's in her mid thirties
and single, and I hadn't actuallyasked her about her dating life. She's

(47:50):
been dating on and off during thepandemic, and she's dating a little bit
right now, and I kind ofwanted to know what's the dating scene like
in Seattle, because there's this thingcalled the Seattle Freeze where everyone just kind
of freezes you out, doesn't getback to you, and ever wants to
hang out. Everyone's more introverted.So I wanted to know, is this
a Seattle thing? What's it like? Because everyone talks about how Denver,
how Nashville, you know, insertmajor city. So my friend was saying

(48:14):
that she's less concerned about how peopleare ghosting or flaking on plans because it's
relatively a normal experience for any city. But she said her problem with Seattle
is just how much the dating scenehas changed since the pandemic. And I
was like, wait, tell memore. And then I started telling you,
Adam, about just how she wasexplaining her experiences and you're like,

(48:37):
wait, actually, I've noticed changesin myself since the pandemic. Maybe we
should talk about this more because it'sthe bigger It's a bigger thing than I
think people realize, and we're stillgoing about our daily lives and so many
things have changed since the beginning oftwenty twenty, but especially dating and just
meeting people in general. Well,and I think that, you know,

(48:59):
when you and you were talking aboutit and I was like, yeah,
I mean I know that I've We'vetalked about it occasionally on on here about
at least my personal feelings about datingand maybe how I've changed to a degree.
But I think that now, beinga few years out from it,
it gives us a little more perspectiveof if is it still happening, Like
are these changes? Is this somethingthat's really kind of affected, uh,
you know, how people date overall. So I think I think it is

(49:22):
a good topic because I feel like, I mean, it makes sense that
it would affect dating. It wasa you know, a global event that
shut down the world for for awhile, and it affected how people worked.
It affected you know, like howhow jobs been affected since it's been
now, you know, it affectedhow people shopped, how people ate,

(49:42):
you know, like all of thesethings that it's affected. So the fact
that it affects dating isn't too muchof a surprise. But I thought we
could talk about, you know,what really has changed since the pandemic that
has made made it a different landscapethan it was, you know, five
years ago. Yeah, and myfriend had mentioned that people are just less
willing to go out now, eventhough things are open and available and anything,

(50:09):
they just don't want to go.And I attribute a little bit of
that, Like you mentioned working,a lot of people work remotely, and
there's there's less spontaneous Hey do youwant to meet up after work at this
bar that's in between where we bothwork in the office. It's oh,
I'm in my house already. That'svery true. I think the work remotely,

(50:30):
although I would say that, youknow, there's still a very large
portion of people who work remotely,but there's also a lot of people who
are still working in office, butnow they've kind of come to enjoy their
home time as well. And somany people took the pandemic and took time
to set up almost like a spacethat was like there. Whatever they did,

(50:50):
they was like home was the youknow, kind of comfort zone,
and so I think that even ifthey work in an office, they might
still not necessarily want to go outafterwards. And I know that that's been
a lot of it for me.Is it's the idea of like, you
know, I just want to likewe're gonna have a conversation. Do we
need to be sitting in a barhaving a conversation or like do you just

(51:13):
want to have a chat? Buthow do you invite? Like that's the
other thing too, is then italso is like I'm not trying to invite
you over to have sex. Ijust want to like why don't we just
yeah, like yeah, like youknow, somewhere where we don't have to
wear shoes and you can just sitin a comfy chair and we can talk
and there's nobody else around. Andyou know that's hard also for dating because
that is not safe for women todo, and so it's not something that

(51:36):
men should be asking women to do. But I know that's like for me,
that's like, oh, it's justbe so much easier if we just
met somewhere where like you know,you don't just it's it's so much more
chill we're all in our comfort zones. So I think that's been a part
of it. And and yeah,the idea of like going out and trying
to pick a place and everything,and and just all the energy. I
think it's an energy that we don'thave anymore. It's so different now where

(51:58):
I was all I spent maybe twentypercent of my time at home. The
other eighty percent I was out doingcool shit or I was at work.
You know. Right now it's Ispend eighty percent of my time at home.
It's completely flipblopped. And I alsothink that as a result of that,
people are like, because this everyonespent so much time alone and at
home, that they started to appreciatebeing alone, Like they started to actually

(52:22):
see the benefits of it. Theystarted to develop their own routines and everything.
And and I was I would saythat before the pandemic, where I
was kind of like, I'm justI have my routine, I like my
things to do, you know,I don't want to like disrupt it and
everything like that. And I thinkthat people kind of joined caught up with
me and my grumpiness basically my mycrime house. Yes exactly. I was

(52:42):
a trendsetter with my my crotchetiness ofbeing like I have the things I like,
I don't want to like expand andgo do all types of crazy things.
And and sometimes I think of likeearlier pre pandemic, like going on
a you know date and someone's like, oh, let's try this, let's
like try something new, and I'dbe like, yeah, it's cool,
let's do it. And now I'dbe like no, why, like why
are we doing this? Like Idon't understand, I don't want no,

(53:04):
no, thank you. And Ido think that people are starting to learn
to like themselves as individuals, likeand as single adults, and so it
makes it less like you're not asdesperate to go out and try to date
because you're okay being alone. You'relike, oh, yeah, I just
survived the pandemic, Like I havea you know, fourteen shows on when
I watch now you know or whateverthat I didn't already do during the pandemic,

(53:28):
and there's new ship now then exactly. Yeah. My friend also had
mentioned, which I found really interesting, about the communication barrier, that there's
more of that now when she doesgo out on dates, where I guess
people have really clinging to the newtshitty men have clinged onto the new influencers

(53:50):
in the space, giving guys thisadvice of this is what you want in
a woman, hit this checklist andlistening to these influence, these shitty influence.
And she said on multiple dates she'sgone on post pandemic, she can.
She said it was a code ofI could. I already knew the
next fucking question they were going toask me because they're trying to get too

(54:10):
interesting. You're in your mid thirties, you don't have kids, and you're
single. H you must be atyou know, you must not want an
alpha male you you know. Soshe's coming across more men like this who
are hit trying to find a womanwho meets the criteria that these influencers are
giving them this list to check offon. Yeah, I think that that
is probably a lot of it too, is that the pandemic gave these crusty

(54:37):
ass white dudes with too much timeon their hands. They started finding TikTok
and doing podcasts and giving terrible,awful advice and generated an audience of other
board dudes who were sitting at homejerking off and playing video games and not
meeting anybody and not having any socializationor any you know, any social skills,

(54:57):
and started following the people who weremore slightly more charismatic than they are,
although none of them are really charismatic, like, yeah, the only
it's like it's weird too, becauseI would say none of the like,
none of the podcasters who do likethe male dating advice, not a single
one of them as someone that Iwould say, like is charismatic, or
is a good public speaker, oris like even even demonstrates intelligence. They

(55:20):
just they manage to somehow give offthis impression that they know what they're talking
about, and then all these idiotsfollow them like little guppies and then start
trying to practice this advice. Andthen these are the same people who are
like, you know, well,if you're gonna catch fish, you don't
ask the fish how to catch them, You ask the fisherman, you know,
because that's how they view the datingpoll is that women are something you

(55:40):
need to catch, not something youam, not someone you actually want to
you know, connect with on ahuman level. And so yeah, absolutely,
I could see that I could seethat being an issue with the like
for a lot of women. Icould see that being a huge turn off
is that you see so many menwho look up to Andrew Tate and people
like that, and and immediately like, why would a woman even want to

(56:01):
talk to like a shit stain whothinks Andrew Tate knows what he's doing,
you know, and it just itblows him my mind. Yeah, those
influencers, I mean, even beforethe pandemic, they just there were still
shitty men in the dating pool thatyou would come across and might perhaps go
on an actual imperson date with,but it was far and few between,
where I think it's a lot morenow. Maybe I don't remember any of

(56:25):
these people existing before the pandemic,right, and men men had their own
shitty ideas, but they didn't haveinfluencers to follow to back them up to
feel more confident when they ask thesefucking stupid questions on dates. They feel
and my friend was saying, theyfeel they're in the right to ask these
fucked up questions because these influencers gavethem the false confidence that they're right for

(56:46):
asking them. And she had tolike hold her tongue on dates and say,
you know, it's not an appropriatequestion to ask, or I don't
really enjoy you know, and howdo you screen that out before before a
first date? You know, youcan, you can try your best,
And maybe she didn't follow all ofthe screening, but I'm saying, you
know, sometimes people can slip throughthe cracks where everything seems fine or whatever,

(57:07):
and then they get on the dateand they switched codes real fast and
say, Okay, I'm going toask you all these shitty questions. Now.
Yeah, I would guess that there'sprobably some red flags that she might
have not really picked up on.And she got that far into the because
these guys aren't They're not chameleons likea lot of them are. You know,
there are a lot of them arepretty pretty fucking blunt. She might

(57:29):
you know, it might have beena quick They matched her. His photos
look normal, his bio look normal. And then he was like, you
want to meet up for a drinksoon? And she said, yeah,
sure, fine, where I thinkpre pandemic you didn't run as much of
a risk as you might. Now, yeah, I agree, And so
yeah, you know what she shoulddo, by the way, she should
have her almost a question. Sheshould be like, when was the last

(57:49):
time you wash your ass? Andthat should be like a question number one
and number two if you touch her, but does that make you gay?
Then I think those two questions areprobably screen out almost all of them.
But no, it does. Ithink it's got a lot worse. And
I think it was these guys,they like these these you know, podcasters
and everything, and the male datingcoaches, And it was the polarizing effect
of like COVID and vaccinations and realizinghow many people out there I think science

(58:16):
is magic and don't understand science atall, or don't want to trust science
and think that they know more thanpeople who actually know what they're talking about.
And so the whole anti vax crowdbecame this like rallying cry of the
you know, of the idiotic,and then became this this this idea that

(58:37):
people are like, you know,being champions by being pure bloods, which
then like, you know, doyou know how close to white supremacy you're
thinking, you're sounding like this,you know that that's a not too too
many steps away, and so sobasically that has also created this extra group
of red flags that never existed before. You didn't have that, you know,

(58:58):
the only people who are anti vaxbefore COVID, we're like we're like
hippie moms who were just like youknow, yeah, which is weird because
like you wouldn't think the hippie toright wing pipeline was a thing, but
it actually became one. But yes, that was the only anti vaxers.
You know, like if you askeda guy, has he been vaccinated?
Like I guess when I was ateenager, yeah, like you know,

(59:19):
he would never even like think aboutit. But now it became a whole
new red flag way to like screampeople out. Is is guys who you
know, I'm a pure blood AndI even see that. I said that.
Women's profile still less so in someareas like less so like when I
was in Colorado and when I wasup in the Pacific Northwest more so like
in Utah and stuff, like Iwould see a woman who was like,
uh, you know, if ifyou got the vax swipe left, you

(59:42):
know, I don't I don't wantto talk to you. You know,
pure blood's only like shit like that. Yeah, it's it's yeah, I
think. I mean twenty sixteen,with the Trump election obviously polarized, you
know, was a big split inthe dating pool, and then the pandemic
became an even big or split witheverything else, whether it was you know,

(01:00:02):
Trump or Biden or you know vaxor no vax or. Then you
introduce influencers into shitty influencers into themix, and more people on spending time
on their phones now than before.Yeah, that's absolutely true. I think
that, you know, there's likeit just created a whole new world of

(01:00:24):
other things to think about, likenow, like like people that were in
relationships for finding out that their theirspouse was all of a sudden like an
anti vax or was like you knowor you know, Trump supporter or whatever,
and it became a huge issue.And so like if you're already in
a relations to someone you don't evenknow them, like, how how much
do you want to does that personwhen they break up? Do they want

(01:00:45):
to start dating again? Like thelike they just found out their long term
partner was crazy, and then likeI don't know if I even want to
try dating again? Why even riskit? Yeah, it's not worth it.
Actually, I value my own happinessmore than being miserable with some man.
And I think maybe that's the signof TikTok. I'm on now.
But there's so many women saying yeah, I don't want to be in a
relationship. I don't want to bemarried. That's not something I value anymore.

(01:01:08):
And there's this big wave of myside of the internet, at least
with that I've never seen before ofsingle women in their like late twenties,
mid thirties saying not interested. Ijust I'm done dating men. And of
course that doesn't make men shitty menespecially happy to hear, because you know,

(01:01:29):
studies have said their happiness levels improvewhen they're married, so they must
find a wife because they need awife in their life. But I don't.
I don't know. There's there's definitelya shift among women saying I'm not
going to tolerate this shit anymore andI really don't need you anyways. And
I think that we've also seen sinceepandemic. I think there was a new
study that came out that said thatsingle men are now the loneliest people out

(01:01:52):
there or something like that, orlike are there they're lonely and sad,
and it's like because they don't knowhow to find their own things to do,
like they feeling a partner. Isthere only chance that happens, You're
going to continue to be onely andsad. Really if they keep acting like
fucking shit heads, but they justgo to therapy, there we go that
it might be the thing to do. Yeah, So I mean I think
that, you know, I knowthat when I'm going to be settled in

(01:02:15):
Tulsa, I'm gonna I'm gonna geta little more active in dating because I'm
going to be somewhere. But eventhen, it's definitely gonna be minimal.
It's not going to be the focusof my time. It's going to be
if I have some free time,and I'm I live downtown now, so
it's easy for me to be like, hey, let's just meet somewhere.
That will you know, that willbe That will be one positive, but

(01:02:35):
it's it's also not It's not goingto be something that I'm going to be
like trying to go do all thesecool things just because it's a date.
It's it's just yeah, it's I'mI'm I have permanently changed since the pandemic,
So I'm not surprised that your friendsalso seeing that. Yeah, I'm
also thinking too, just looking aheadwith everything going on with the economy and
housing crisis and just recession talks andpeople losing their jobs, how many people

(01:03:01):
are actually willing to go on datesjust to spend the money in general,
you know, more people might justright, yes, you can do things
for free, and we've talked aboutthat before, but why why I fucking
bother? Yeah, yeah, Iknow. And then I don't like.
I don't like I mean, bigevents, I don't like like it.
Really it's weird being somewhere that's reallycrowded, like I'm so used to.

(01:03:24):
I think I went through being alonelike so much that when I started going
out to the places that were likesuper crowded, it felt just really uncomfortable
for me. I was like,I'm not enjoying this. I'm not enjoying
just the you know, uber crowdedenvironment. And so I think that's also
part of it too, is likedates are now like, you know,
a lot of people just like Idon't want to like this. I don't

(01:03:45):
know if it's a social anxiety orjust a social avoidance, but that's I
think that's a you know, thatthat is permanently changed how a lot of
people view events too. And asfar as dating apps go, not that
I have any experience RecA, butwhen they first came out and I started
using them. They were fun toa degree, you know, the stupid

(01:04:05):
messages, the dumb you know,the dumb conversations back and forth. There
was an element of that, butnow my friend was saying, it's just
exhausting being on there where I don'teven want to be on the fucking app.
I don't want to be on myphone anymore. Or if I'm gonna
be on my phone, I'm gonnabe on TikTok or another social media platform,
or try to be outside doing livingmy life as normal as I can

(01:04:28):
and not be swiping on the appsbecause it's just a time suck that I
don't need and I'm not getting anyvalue out of. Yeah, yep,
yeah, she's right. So doyou think there's anything we can do to
change this? Like there's there's there'slike there's things we can do about this.
I mean going back to also likeour listener call or our listener emails
earlier. Yeah, from Ben.If you want to date and you intentionally

(01:04:55):
set up of saying this is agoal of you know, I want to
successfully date and put energy into it, then do it, but take a
break. And we've always said thistoo. If you're not fully in it,
and you don't. You're just kindof blah about it. Get the
funk off the apps and just liveyour life without trying to find somebody to
date, because you're not in theright headspace and you're going to meet someone

(01:05:15):
and it's just going to be messyand not a fun time. So intentionally
go out there to date. Yeah, I think I think you have to.
You have to set your priorities andyou have to actually you have to
date with intention Like you said,I think you have to go and say,
Okay, do I want to datebecause I just want someone to go
out with occasionally? Do I wantto date because I want to or I'm
on the app because I just wantto get laid. I'm on the apps

(01:05:38):
because I'm looking for a relationship.Like, what is it that you're looking
for and be specific and go afterthat purpose. If you use the apps
out of boredom or attention where Ifind myself or attention which is where I
find myself a lot is out ofboredom. I'm just like, let me
just swipe on. You know fora bit, you're wasting your time and
the other person's time. And Ithink before it didn't seem like such a

(01:05:58):
big deal. But now I feelmaybe it just it seems like it's more
of a waste of time since thepandemic. So I think that having a
specific intention is so important, andI think that's something that I would Alwad
suggest that if you don't have anintention, you're just like I don't know,
then don't do it, like,just just don't do it for a
while. Focus and go do somethingelse instead, you know, focus on

(01:06:19):
some of their aspects of your lifeyou want to work on, and come
back to when you actually are like, okay, you know what, yes,
now I really want someone to gogo to the movies with every week
or whatever it is, like,you know, it doesn't have to be
like a huge thing, just likesome type of intention that you're looking for,
so that when someone asked you whatare you looking for, you have
a fucking answer instead of I don'tknow, just something fun that's not a

(01:06:39):
good Yeah, you really we shouldall grow up and kind of stop having
that answer now. Yes, that'sjust me. I always hated when someone
said that as an answer because Iwould think, why the fuck did you
ask you out on a date?This? Right? I thought you and
you know, be clear maybe,just like you said, set the intention
of hey, I'm just for ahook up, Hey I'm just looking for

(01:07:00):
this, and say that instead oftrying to wasting your time and the other
person's time, like you already said, yeah, and let's say that communication.
The communication is important to you know, communicate clearly what you're looking for,
don't and if you're if you're notenjoying a conversation with somebody, or
if it's just kind of once again, if it's like lukewarm under my definition
of lukewarm. There, like,if the conversation is lukewarm, then it's

(01:07:21):
not gonna get any better from there. You know. I just think that
you should just cut your losses whenyou can. And I think that it's
even more important now than ever toavoid collecting red flags too. That if
you see somebody that gives off theslightest red flag, like whatever it is,
I don't care how small the redflag is, a tiny red flag

(01:07:42):
is going to lead to big redflags later. And we've talked about this
so many times that someone who sayssomething like starts off like hey sexy,
hey beautiful, or whatever, theystart off their dating, dating app conversation
with that that is almost a redflag. If you call them out on
it and they get defensive, thenit is a red flag. And that
means that they don't see you asperson. And I know people like brush
it off. Oh no, it'sjust a you know, matter of speech

(01:08:03):
whatever. No, I guarantee youthat that is one of those one of
those things. And it's funny howsometimes people will brush off these small red
flags and then only like, oh, six months later, oh yeah,
I foind out blah blah blah.No shit, that's what these are.
Like, these small red flags leadto the big red flags, and so
you have to be more aware ofthem, and you have to be able
to to cut someone out as soonas you see something that's that's a bright

(01:08:25):
red and waving in your fucking face. Agreed. Yeah, I don't know,
we're just yeah, I don't know. Dating sounds exhausting, and I
like, I think about, youknow, if Roy and I ended,
I don't think I you know,not only would dealing with a breakup suck,
but I don't think in this climate, I want i'd want to date.
And I hate saying that. Isay, I really can't see you

(01:08:48):
going like going on dates like youwere in the past, Like I really
like every other week I was ona new first date and it was fucking
exhausting, but I was so excitedfor it. And I don't I just
don't have that. And I don'teven feel that way about making new friends
here anymore because I find some somethings correlates as far as being lukewarm when

(01:09:10):
you're meeting new people. And shouldI even continue this friendship or hang out
with you again or text you?Maybe not it's even worth leaving my house
to meet up with this person ona friend date, not getting the good
vibe it. The two correlate veryvery strongly where I'm like, yeah,
and I'm not in the position rightnow where i really want to make new
friends because and I don't even havea lot of friends here, because I've

(01:09:32):
seen that it's been a huge fuckingwaste in my time because people suck.
Yeah, because people suck there,uh, you know. And I think
the only other thing I would sayis that maybe change your perspective on you
know, like maybe what dating meansto you too, Like, you know,
like is it, can you dovirtual dates? Can you meet people

(01:09:55):
other ways? Et cetera? Youknow, like those other things to keep
in mind. But I feel like, you know, like if we if
we acknowledge that the dating in thepandemic since the pandemic has changed for good,
like it has changed, not forgood. Isn't the good? I
think it isn't a good thing.But permanently it has changed, and it's
going to change how people date now. The then you really have to,
like I said, just you haveto approach it differently and don't approach it

(01:10:20):
as casually, but only do itwhen it's something you're ready to do.
And I think that might maybe that'llthat'll make a little bit difference if we
have more people that are just focusedwhen they want to and otherwise aren't wasting
everyone else's time. Agree, You'renot going to spontaneously text someone at five
o'clock and be like, hey,meet up after work. The barrier to
entry is so much higher now thanit ever was before. Yep. I

(01:10:45):
agree. Well, I think,uh, we'd love to hear if anybody
has some experiences that maybe they've hadsince the pandemic that they's shown maybe that
maybe they were wrong. Maybe there'sa you've had a policy, it's been
better for you in your city orwhatever. Yeah, yeah, it would
love to hear that and or worseeither way, just to kind of,
you know, see what you thoughtyou'd think about it. Well. You
can email us, of course withyour thoughts at Dating kind of Sucks Podcast

(01:11:08):
at gmail dot com or call thehotline once again four O seven and four
oh seven five one nine zero oneeight one, where you can join our
Facebook group and share in there atFacebook dot com slash Group slash dkas Podcast.
And as far as social media,if you want to give us a
comment, a like, a share, whatever that social media platform promotes.
You can follow Adam or myself onTikTok. Adam is at adam Avidable and

(01:11:31):
mine is at simply Surgy Underscore.You can also follow our Instagram page at
Dating kind of Sucks. And ifyou've been watching on YouTube or you want
to check out our traumatic videos onYouTube where crazy things happen, that's a
YouTube dot com slash Dating kind ofSucks, that's right, And if you
want to support the podcast, youcan for five dollars a month at Patreon
dot com slash dkas Podcast. Wedo put up bonus episodes, usually once

(01:11:56):
a month, so you get extracontent but even if you didn't get extra
content supporting us for five bucks amonth, it's worth it for everything that
we do for you. I mean, come on, isn't it. I
think so? And of course,if you're listening on iTunes or Apple podcast,
please leave us a five star ratingand review. It's been a while
since we've had some reviews, soif you're a new listener and you haven't
left one yet, please take thetime to leave us a five star rating
and review. And on Spotify aswell, you can also rate the podcast.

(01:12:19):
Now if you think, I don'tknow how you do it, because
I haven't actually figured it out,but I know it's on the app.
Is it on the Spotify app?Okay? If you pull up our podcast
and get ask you to review itsomewhere on there. So I would love
for you to give us a fivestar rating on there too, because sometimes
the men's rights activists I love tolove to hate it hate on Yeah.
Or you can share this podcast withthe friend. It doesn't you don't have

(01:12:41):
to do any of the social things, but say, hey, I listened
to this cool episode. You shouldlisten to and share it with your friends
so it spreads the word of allthis positivity with dating instead of shitty male
podcasters. Absolutely, I think that'sa good, good call. I like
that. So with that, wewill be back in two weeks with a
brand new episode. And uh andif you uh, you know, I

(01:13:04):
said looking forward to hearing from someof you with some voicemails, So I'm
really expecting to get some after thisepisode. Like I'm I have faith in
this, so please do that allepisodes just listener emails and voicemails next episode.
Yeah, that's right, that's allit is. Yeah, and we'll
see you in two weeks until nexttime. Whether you're married or figgle or

(01:13:28):
palla, you're right for hanging out. Which mainers back in your place?
Listen to us to be getting nobuck a tender and mumbled up plenty of
young trying and trying and having toluck because we all know dating kind of
sucks. Sarah and Adam our dulbakai, he says, dupid and Sheet
isn't mind. They're not doing thisshow to make any buck light as the

(01:13:50):
chicken woods feathers, they blucks,why does it work? We'll hear with
the cruck are they both know datingkind of sucks dating kind of sucks,

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