Is Dating Expensive? A Look at the Cost of Loving.

Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Hi, I'm Sarah and I'm MadamEthan Vitable. This is the DKs Podcast,
a podcast about love, sex,culture and society. This week we'll
be discussing the cost of loving.Enjoy the show whether you're married or fingle
or probaly or a bor hanging onWitzmanner's back at your place. Listen to
us and be getting no buck,a tenderb and mumble of plenty of young

(00:26):
trying and trying and having to luck. Because we all know dating kind of
sucks so we mentioned it last episode, But is the year of the listener?
And before you get settled into thisepisode, is there anything on your
mind? We want to hear fromyou. Whether you have topic, ideas
or questions you want to email toDating kind of Sucks Podcast at gmail dot
com, or an issue you needhelp with. You can leave a voicemail

(00:48):
on our DCS helpline at four ohseven five one nine zero one A one.
Don't be shy. And this weekwe'll chat about a guy who is
suing Chicago women over negative Facebook group, answer a call from a listener,
explore Cave Town, South Africa,and then talk more about our topic,
Is it cheaper to be single anddating or to be in a relationship.

(01:10):
What is the cost of loving?But before we get into that, Adam,
I suppose I should wish you ahappy early birthday or happy birthday when
this episode comes out. Yeah,it's earlier right now because we're recorded on
Tuesday, but it will be mybirthday when this episode airs, and thank
you very much, and it is. It's so funny that we managed to
we have birthdays in a week ofeach other. It's just one of those
random things. It's so easy toknow when yours. Yeah, I know,

(01:32):
I know, I just exactly andI always remember yours. Yeah.
I don't really have plans, andI'm STI trying to figure ot what I'm
gona do. But it should beIt'll be me, you know, It's
basically what it is. It's eitherI'm gonna have plans to go do something
for myself or I'm just gonna endup doing nothing, and that's still for
myself. The one thing I'm sadabout is that there's no Publixes nearby,
so I can't go get a public'sbirthday cake, which I am a big

(01:53):
fan of, like really just thesheet cakes. Oh yeah, just the
Public's brand birthday cake though, like, uh, you know, just whatever,
the they're butter cream icing and theway they make the cake, it's
just it's always perfect. And I'ma huge fan. I would like to
get you a piece of that vanillaice cream and just like can't go wrong
with that. And uh, I'mprobably gonna go get some type of cake

(02:13):
here at the grocery store, butI know it's not gonna be the same,
so I'll be a little bit disappointedin that. I was gonna say,
you're not going to give another branda chance, but I guess you
will. But it's just it justcan't be as good. I don't know
what it is about Public, somethingabout their certain things that they do right.
Like they're the cookies. I'll tellyou what. I have traveled across
the entire country now. They're thebest cookies in the year. And like
the bakery, like I everywhere Iwent, I would go to the grocery

(02:34):
store bakery and I would get apack of like chocolate chip cookies, which
is one of my favorite type ofcookie, especially the fresh made bakery kind.
And Publixes have been better than everygrocery store I've been to across all
forty eight states. So I justI don't know what it is that they
do. So it's it's, youknow, it's the only only thing,
the only reason I still support publicsbecause they're otherwise a garbage institution. But

(02:55):
yeah, so that's about it formy worth time. I really, I'm
like, you know, I'll goto a bar with its Friday's gonna be
Friday night, Gonna go out andhave a few drinks and probably meet up
with a couple of friends I have. I've been making friends here and that's
been nice, and that's we'll see, we'll see. I want to.
I want to, you know,I was going to the movie basically,
Yeah, you know, I'll letlisteners they can buy me a drink if

(03:19):
they want. They can venmo meif they wanted my venmost just Adam dash
evitable. So if you, ifyou're listening, you want to send me
a ten bucks for a drink,you feel free. I'm not gonna say
no. It will be a nicelittle surprise. I never do that.
I know you don't, but Ihave no shame. I know who's gonna
say I would never ask, SoI don't want to drink. Well,
right, I guess that's true.Yeah, but I think this weekend I'll

(03:40):
probably go out. A couple oftimes I've been sick and I tried to
go out last night Monday night,and I lasted about two hours and I
was like, I'm done. Andthat was like two hours at a like
a fancy place. I only hadlike two drinks. It wasn't like thrown
back shots or anything. So Ihave to work my way up to be
able to be able to drink thisweekend. So how about your birthday?
Did you have a You have agood one. Yeah, it was nice.
I don't maybe it's just because I'mgetting older, but it doesn't feel

(04:03):
as monumental as it used to.Yeah, after just turned thirty two,
so I felt like thirty and thirtyone, maybe because I went on big
trips to Mexico City and Hawaii andnow I just kind of stayed in Washington
and it was nice. We wentto a resort about two hours outside of
Seattle. We were in the snow. It was really beautiful but very low

(04:26):
key, just Roy and I hangingout, hanging in the hot tub and
the heated pool off the side ofa mountain that was beautiful. Yeah,
as it was snowing. That waspretty cool. Got my fix of winter
stuff. And now I'm back inSeattle where there's no snow, so that's
perfect, that's good. I remembermy thirtieth actually was a like just a
perfect storm of shit because my wifeat the time, I think she had

(04:50):
to go out of town for workon my actual birthday, and so she
was out of town. And thenmy grandmother died in Massachusetts. My parents
also flew out of town that sameweekend, and so basically like anyone that
I had, like, had potentialplans with or whatever, all sudden was
gone. So I just basically didnothing for my birthday. And I don't
think I really like I occasionally throwparties at the house or whatever. But

(05:13):
I think my fortieth was when Iwent to Iceland for like, that was
like that big one. Yeah,And I think when I hit fifty,
I'll probably do something you know,crazy, you know too, and I
don't know what, but I'll probablytry to really plan something you know,
insane for that. Yeah, movedto another country for good you know,
who knows? You just moved toTulsa. Why are we talking about moving?
That's true, and there was somethingthat that I was gonna say.

(05:34):
And oh and everybody in the Facebookgroup wished you a nice litleppy I know,
I responded to pretty much everybody wasimpressed that you actually saw that.
I also, uh didn't even knowof you noticed the pictures I chose with
a little collage. I did,and I ignored them, but they were
they were all the like, they'reall funny pictures that we had taken over

(05:55):
the years, just like you know, some of just you and then like
usually the few of us that arealways ridiculous, like you're either either flipping
off the camera or it's just yeah, it's insane. But I or you
got the one with the giant dildo, which is one of my favorite photos.
I know, I notice I sawthat said of course he used that
photo. That's one of the oneof the funniest pictures. But yeah,
so other than birthdays, I don'tthink we really have much else going on

(06:17):
personally. We just talked about thetwo weeks and we're actually back on pattern
to be a normal every two weekepisode, you know show look at that
until I leave again. I know, you know, I noticed that Apple
Podcasts the other day, like therethey have our podcast and it says monthly
episodes is what it says, likeas far as like they're what they consider
us to be, which monthly?Fuck that? No, we do it

(06:39):
bi weekly. Well there are timesthe holidays and other times where we've missed
and then we only did one forthe month, so I understand. But
yeah, I know, but youthink they would average that all out,
and like especially the times we weredoing it weekly for a while too,
and so I don't know, I'mnot offended. So anyways, let's let's
talk current events because something interesting poppedup on my social media feed that I

(07:04):
just had to laugh about. AndI don't know if you've seen this,
Adam, but there's actually and wetalked about Facebook groups, the are we
dating the same guy group and howeach city has a different page, and
I joined Seattle just just get apulse on everything going in there. Well,
this guy, Nick Diambrosio, who'sthirty two, is suing twenty seven

(07:26):
women and Facebook over negative posts abouthim, which is so interesting because what
is exactly is his claim that it'slike defamation, I'm guessing yeah, he's
seeking damages and he wants to preventpeople from continuing to publish statements about him,
saying that it hurt his finances andhis reputation by them posting about him.

(07:49):
Okay, interesting, Yeah, it'sone of those hilarious things where you
know, in in defamation cases andanything like that, you have to prove
that it's not true. So yeah, So that means that if he actually
were to go to court for it, then every single woman that he's ever
dated would be invited to appear asa witness to talk about the fact that

(08:13):
I see that he like he wasdescribed apparently and in the Facebook group as
being like psycho and clingy and ghostingwomen and things like that, So like
they would just have to appear andbe like, oh, yeah, this
is here's here's here's this, here'sthis text messages from me that shows how
clingy or crazy he is, oroh yeah, here's he didn't show up.
I can attest to the fact thathe ghosted me, and like,
basically it would be so easy toprove that he's completely you know, like

(08:35):
IM really wrong and and what abetter way. There's there's a thing it's
called, uh I believe it's calledBette Midler syndrome syndrome or the bet Middler
effect, and it was I don'tremember the the actual context of it,
but I actually want to look itup because it's it's very interesting. The
the the bet Middler effect was somethingabout she had like a tweet or something

(08:56):
that she put out there that seemedpretty innocent, and then someone said something
about about it and was like askingif like they started like I had an
issue with it, and instead ofshe's like saying, oh, you're right,
and and then just taking it downor whatever, she doubled down on
it and became this huge thing wherepeople who had never heard of it started
looking it up because she was talkingabout it. So like she essentially made

(09:18):
her own her own drama multiple youknow, just worse and worse, just
like this guy's doing. Because nowthat he's in the news for this,
there's all these articles with this fuckingname and face everywhere. Now everyone knows
who he is. We're only thegroup knew before, which blows my mind
that he's couldn't he sue and notbe could he be anonymous? I'm not
a lawyer. You can you knowyou can't. You can't sue someone anonymously,

(09:41):
And that there's probably some I wouldsay, and in certain circumstances might
be if it's a minor suwing somethingfor like civil damages, for something of
a sexual battery, maybe there mightbe a case we can be anonymous.
Not in this case. No,you have to because you have the right
to face your accuser if you're beingsued, basically that's one of the legal
rights, and so you'd be ableto to you know, to face the

(10:01):
person. So yeah, So he'smade it so that a private group in
Chicago, which I know probably hasseveral thousand members. Oh no, they
have eighty thousand members. Okay,so eighty thousand members. But still in
the city of Chicago, which youknow has as actually how many you know,
a couple million people, I'm surewhatever. I have no idea,
you know, with the actual sizes. But now they all know who he
is, and now every woman outsideof Chicago knows who he is and knows

(10:22):
to avoid him completely because any guywho's going to do that that is getting
so defensive. That's that's like,that's the epitome of douchebag behavior right there
too. I think he started thislawsuit to say I'm going to help other
men who are and I'm just speakingout of my ass, right. I
don't know what his thought process was, besides I want to help my reputation
and make some money. But Ithink he was also in the I'm gonna

(10:46):
lead the charge for other men,so we're not I'm not the only one
who is going to face this anymore. And I'll stop these women from being
so naggy and wrong and blah blahblah. And that's backfire against him a
lot more than I think he expected. Yeah, So apparently now now there's
other stuff coming out about him,right, Oh yeah, So good old

(11:07):
Nico is accused of filing at leasttwo false tax returns, both in which
he claimed that he spent an exorbitantamount in expenses and spent it on charity
while earning a salary well below thepoverty line. I guess this whole scheme
started in twenty twenty, and sonow he's dealing with tax fraud. So
now, because he decided he wantedto try to, you know, step

(11:31):
up and be a you know,a man, and and you know,
just how dare we got more eyeson him talk about him? Yeah,
yeah, you gotta you gotta lovethat type of that's like, that's a
great kind of justice there. Ithink when that happens, does this change
your opinion of the are we datingthe same guy group at all? Do
you think it's still valuable? TheSeattle one sometimes is questionable with things,

(11:52):
Yes, but I will say forevery I would say every two posts that
I'm like, was that necessary topost? There's there's one that people are
saying, Hey, I'm actually concernedabout this. Let me know if anything's
a red flag. And then womenanything that has more than probably ten comments,
that's when I go and actually readthe tea on what's going on.

(12:13):
Yeah, yeah, so there issome Again, we talked a whole episode
about this. I do think there'svalue in it, but I think there's
the right way to approach certain conversationson that Facebook group. Yeah, I
mean I agree. I think thatyou know, if I think the benefit
it does to protect women is outweighsthe occasional overreach that it might have or

(12:41):
something, you know, in thatway, because I know there's there's there,
because there's women that are going tounfortunately and this is this blows my
mind. And if if you're awoman listening to this and you have ever
taken a screenshot from are we doatingthe same guy? And send it to
a guy? What the fuck iswrong with you? Like? What why
would you violate that that type ofsafety for that? I you know,

(13:03):
if you're like, well, Ithink he's a good guy. You know,
maybe he is, but like letpeople talk about him, you know,
in the privacy. But by youdoing that, you just made it
dangerous. You just made it,you know, something unsafe. And the
amount of people who talk about thathappening where a woman who's decided to share
it is just it's it's unbelievable,and it really kind of blows my mind
sometimes that it's not men in thegroup that are the issue. It's it's

(13:26):
the other women sometimes can make itmore dangerous and they have those rules saying
you can't share or whatever, butI mean it's a yeah, how do
you like? You can't really enforceit. You can't enforce it, and
it's not legally binding in any way. But this lawsuit also has me thinking,
if anyone ever made a viral socialmedia post against me, talking shit
about me, does that encourage meto want to suit? You know,

(13:50):
if I took all the people whohave said shit about me on the internet,
and I tried to sue for defamationand reputation or whatever the fuck is
that? No, why would I? I don't know, why waste my
time? Well, it's yeah,it's very rarely worth worth it unless what
they're saying about you is so egregiousthat it's and it actually has somehow legitimately
hurt like harmed you in some waytoo, you know. And here's the

(14:13):
thing too, is in this lawsuit, if it's actually gonna proceed, which
I don't think it will. Ifit if it proceeds, he's gonna have
to name the person who send himthe information and how he found out too,
which means that that woman is goingto be absolutely ostracized for sharing the
stuff with him because someone had toshare it with him. Yeah, So
that's that's just interesting. It's funny. I and we had somebody in our

(14:33):
group ask about the like who joinedour group, and then was like,
what do you all think of theyou know, the group? And it
is you know, and and forthe most part, everybody's pretty pretty supportive
of it. And I was like, yeah, I can see where the
benefits that way, the the negativesfor sure, so we get a lot
of people I think who found ourepisode on it and uh, and like
kind have shared that in others inthat face group group too has hurt you

(14:56):
know, heard the episode because weget people gro But yeah, that is
interesting and yeah, Nico, yousound like a real winner. He didn't
have to move to another city,but that's just because his face is everywhere.
I think. You know, ifyou dated in Seattle, of New
York or Miami, wherever the fuckpeople would look him up, you're gonna
do it. Nico di Ambrosio isnot like a it's not like Michael,

(15:18):
like a common name. Yet it'snot like, yeah, it's not John
Smith. That's gonna be pretty prettyclear. And yeah, so it's it's,
uh, he kind of did thisto himself, you know. And
here's the thing is ment if youfind if you find out that you're in
one of these groups, the betterthing to do is be like, if
you find out everything you're saying aboutyou think about it, how much of
it might be true, how muchof it might be exaggeration. Sure,

(15:39):
there's gonna be an element of exaggeration, but how much of it might actually
be true? And maybe you shouldsay instead of getting yeah, exactly,
oh shit, you know what,maybe I really am a douchebag and maybe
you should start working on yourself.Well, because that's the other thing too,
because sometimes these posts, at leastfrom what I've seen, it's in
the Some of them are in thepast, where people people are calling out

(16:00):
shitty behavior from a couple of yearsago, when they dated that, when
the photo of any red flags fromthis guy, it's from two years ago,
when they're bringing up information. IfI go back six years, I
did and said a lot of shittythings to men that if there was a
great you know, there was asure you know, I would definitely agree
and go, yeah, I fuckedup. I did and said wrong things,

(16:22):
and I own up to it.Yeah, I can't expect to be
perfect. But if it happened sixmonths ago, within the last year,
two years, eh, you know, but so some of that you have
to think, Okay, they hadsome window of area to change. But
yeah, it's true they might nothave. And at least I'm armed with
some of this information. It's betterthan nothing. But as a guy,

(16:44):
yeah, you gotta own up tosomebody. You have to, I mean,
yeah, absolutely, And you're rightthough that he's especially because I do
find that none of it's very rarelyis it going to be like, oh,
well, seven years ago we didthis stuff. It's usually going to
be like, oh, yeah,last week he goes with me, or
no, he just sent me hisdick today, you know, like it's
yeah, it usually feels like it'sa you know, or or they're dating
multiple people without telling anyone, andso this is, you know, further

(17:07):
evidence and why you know, Iwould say sexual orientation is not a choice,
but it's just the way we are. I feel like, you know,
just for the example, why youknow, Woven would not date men
if they didn't have to. Andthen another one is the other TikTok video
that's been going viral. I've seenit all over the place, like every
it seems like every even people whodon't usually like do commotation on a commentating

(17:27):
on anything or commentating on it andsharing and talking about it's the woman who
was on a date and uh andher and she's she's also I feel like
in the Chicago area, now thatI think about it, yeah, yeah,
I think, I think, Ithink yeah, but anyways, goes
on a date with someone, hecheered out to be racist and apparently was
was dropping the N word, iswhat it's seemed like from the context,

(17:49):
and so she just left. She'slike, it was like just not it
was not a feeling like this wasanything. So she just left and uh
and and he followed her and likechased her down based in the car,
and then I started asking her aboutit, and she's like, I'm just
I'm sorry. I didn't see it. You know, there's no connection there,
and I and that's not okay withme. And you saw this,

(18:11):
right, yeah, no, Iwatched it, but I didn't see it.
And you sent it to me actually, And she's sitting in her car.
The video is recorded of like justthe phone in her lap talking to
him, and she drove home.He followed her home. She's talking to
him, sitting in her car whilehe's standing outside of her window, and
she's like, I just I don'tsee a connection. You said racist things.
He's like, well, I'm nota racist. I'm the least racist

(18:33):
person there is. And she's like, no, someone who's racist would say
that, not someone who's not racist. And then yeah, the least racist
person wouldn't say that word. Andthen then he's like, oh, fun,
I'm gonna call my black friends.Yeah, like, which is just
and you can tell us you're sodone with a conversation too. And then
what does she say. She sayssomething like about about respect, and she's

(18:56):
she's just like, you know what, like a you don't have the respect
or whatever. And then that's whenit like it shifts and she rolls up
her windows like I'm fucking done withthis guy, now get out of my
face. Yeah, he starts,where is the respect when I you know,
when you left me at the bar? You know you I think he
called her a conju or something likethat. Way, yeah, and then

(19:18):
he starts like yelling about where's therespect when you you know, I spent
He said he spent three hundred dollarson her, which seems like an exaggeration
by the way, Like I feellike this date seems like it ended pretty
early on. Yeah, pretty prettypretty early. So I don't know where
they went and he would spend thatmuch, but yeah, and so then
she was just like kind of terrifiedfor her life too. So a couple
of places, she's actually trying tofind a new place to live anyways,

(19:40):
and so like some of the TikTokersand you don't know this one, but
Danash is one of them. Buthe's actually like raising money to help her
get her being expenses faster so shecan find it get a new place.
But and he's got the guy's name. She told it to him but said,
please don't share it till I'm safe, And so he's gonna wait and
then he's gonna call the guy out. But yeah, it's just terrifying.

(20:00):
You're listening to You're like, inthe beginning, you're like, this guy
sounds really annoying, Like what adouchebag? And how dare you like follow
it or a car like a followera home? Like that's that's in crazy.
But then like it not goes upa notch, It gets even crazier.
Yeah, and it's it's something thatI wouldn't have thought about of,
Oh, if a date doesn't gowell, now I have to worry about
someone potentially following me home and stockingme. Really, because you know,

(20:26):
we tell people don't don't get aride with your date, you know,
especially on a first date or seconddate. You know, like go on
your own car, but you know, having to risk them following you home
like that's that's gonna be crazy,Like that's a whole other level, Like
e mentually you're ready to like getinside, wipe off the date from your
mind and just forget about it.And then this guy standing right next to
your fucking window talking to you abouthow he's not racist give him a chance.

(20:49):
Da da da da da. It'slike, what the fuck is wrong
with you? Insane? This isyou know, but yet But but men
have to worry more about their livesthan women, right because men go to
war. Yeah, exactly, menwar, and men have to worry about
being rejected because being rejected is somuch, so much worse than having someone

(21:11):
follow you home and start yelling atyou insults and make you terrified for your
life. Like it's it's it reallyis that perspective that I think, you
know a lot of men get.I understand being rejected as hard it is,
it sucks, but like it's nothingcompared to the you know the reality
of you know, having your lifethreatened. And I wish that men could
really just understand if I think evenmen could understand that basic idea, just

(21:33):
that basic concept that would make themmore empathetic and for the rest of the
rest of like, the experience wouldbe improved for women and men because they
would start off with that idea.Oh this is let me start off on
the foot that every time a womangoes on a day with a man,
she's potentially risking her life. Ifthey if they kept that in mind every
time instead of getting defensive and shittyabout it, I think that it would
make dating a better experience for everybody. But no, they have to.

(21:56):
But men don't think that they're badin any sense. I think even this
guy right who stalked her, followedher all of the all of the things,
probably doesn't think he's a bad guy. He thinks she's just a bitch
and he does nothing wrong because heis owed an answer and a response for

(22:17):
what happened on that date. Yep, make him a bad guy. He
also is something like I've been downthis road before or something like that.
He like, oh dude, sothis isn't the first time, and yeah
that's oh men. So let's alsospeaking of men, we actually have a
we have another like this and thisis not a bash man episode. This
is just I know, but it'sjust this is all men doing it to

(22:41):
themselves. Here we have a.We have a caller who left a voicemail
a couple. I think it wasin late November, So I appreciate,
appreciate you leaving the voicemail. That'sfrom Stacey. And if you want to
leave voicemail, by the way,you can do that before you listen to
this. You can do that bydialing four oh seven five one nine zero
one one. But let's hear whatStacey has to say. Hi. This

(23:03):
is Stacy. My Instagram handle isone mother Runner to Too. My question
for you guys today is I seemto have the same pattern occur again and
again in dating, and I hopeyou guys can help me. It always
starts off where the guy is superinto me, he seems crazy about me,
acts like, you know, hewants to be with me, and

(23:26):
monsters spent a lot of time withme. And then it always feeds out
like really really quickly, and thenI end up with like kind of like
holding the bag in the end rightlike, So it could be someone I'm
not even super into or whatever,but they seem to show a lot of
interest, so I respond, showinterest back, get you know, start
to date, and then all ofa sudden it feels like they're interesting poletely

(23:48):
fades. Is it me? AmI doing something wrong? Is it they
get to know me and then theydon't like my personality. I'm just really
curious if other people have faces andwhat this might be if it helps.
This seems to happen with his heteromen and a hetero relationship, So I
don't know if this is something uniqueto that or I just don't know.

(24:08):
But love your bike, thanks somuch. All right, So my first
thought when you say he seems crazyabout me, I just I read love
bombing. That there's some form oflove bombing with that going on and then
either goess or moves on because hedidn't get what he wanted aka six or
something in that realm. And Ifeel like there's a lot of context missing,

(24:32):
whether that's like where are you goingon dates with guys, where are
you matching with guys? Where youmeeting guys in general, and the type
of pool of those people. Butif a lot of them are trying to
just I like you so much,I want to hang out with you whatever,
that is a form of love bombing, and just to be aware that's
what it is. And yeah,what are your thoughts, Well, it

(24:55):
definitely sounds like love bombing. Itsounds like the guy sees sees you.
You know, you give us yourInstagram handle, so I lo up your
Instagram. You're you know, veryattractive. And I think that like an
objectively attractive person. And I thinkthat when you have that, men see
that and immediately start to assign likea fantasy world, well not even that,
but like even like a fantasy worldof like, oh well, then

(25:15):
you know, like they see somebodywho and they're like, oh well,
she must be like this and likethis and like this, and they kind
of create this persona of you thatthen they they like, that's where the
love bombing comes from it because theybuild it without even getting to know you.
And then as they start to getto know you and aspects of who
you are, things you like todo, things you know, like your
interests, your could be, yourpolitics, could be a level of intelligence,

(25:38):
it could be like just your levelof security with yourself and confidence with
yourself. All these things might leadthem to then stop, like stop having
that love bombing effect. And theone thing I would say is that it's
not healthy to like somebody just becausethey like you it's flattering as hell when
somebody's into you, even if youdon't really see a connection with them,

(26:00):
when they're like, you know,they're they're like blying you with compliments and
love and all types of positive things. It's it's hard not to look at
that. But you can't look atthat and then create a traction out of
that if there wasn't to begin with, because that's also you know, I
think the thing is you're like,oh, well, you know, he's
into me, and it's it's like, why not it would be good for
me to go on a date withhim, But why if you're not super

(26:22):
into him? What's the point ifit's not If it's not a fuck yes,
it's a fuck no. Like sympathydates, you don't need to do
any of that. You don't wasteyour time with that bullshit. I think
I think that's exactly part of it. And I think that that that when
you start to be like, oh, let me let me kind of give
in, you know, like,oh, okay, give in, let
me let me give this person achance. At that moment too, it
starts becoming less a fantasy for themand then reality. And you know,

(26:44):
men are like dogs sometimes like theychase a car and then when they get
a hold of the car, theydon't know what to do with it,
and so like they like reality alla sudden, like oh, well wait
she wants to like that's how sheeat? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
she just doesn't want to go homewith fuck right now she wants to
date, Like, I don't know, I like, that's a oh that
might not be it. And Ithink that's really part of it. I
don't think it's it's I don't thinkit's your personality. I don't think it's
anything you're doing wrong, other thanmaybe giving people a chance when you're not

(27:07):
attracted to them. I think thatmight be the thing to do for now.
On is that if you don't seeit at the beginning, and the
only reason you're starting to give thema chance is because of how they're treating
you, that's that's not going tobe a healthy relationship regardless, it's gonna
be balanced. Yeah, I agree, don't waste your fucking time. Yeah,
day people who you actually want todate, Yes, and form relationships

(27:29):
with those people, and it mightnot work out and you could still face
love bombing and other things in thosesituations too. But at least you're dating
people who you're attracted to, interestedin, and actually want to date instead
of just kind of wasting time onpeople that you feel me about. Yep,
I agree, And there's better peopleout there and better people that are
worth your time. So and onceagain, if anyone else has any questions,

(27:52):
what's the numbers there? You canalways call the dCas hotline at four
oh seven five one nine zero oneeight one. That's right, you said
helpline earlier. I was like,is it a helpline now or a hot
line? I call it a helplineand a hotline. I noticed that I
actually switched back and forth between thetwo. I mean, they're both the
same kind of thing, aren't they. I mean they're both for getting help.
I guess, so not an officialhelpline. We are not professionals.

(28:18):
No, there were just two assholes. That'd be the other name of our
podcast if we had one, justtwo assholes. You can also emails a
Data kind of Sucks podcast at gmaildot com if you do have any questions,
if you need advice, if youhave any topic ideas, just to
have general thoughts, we'd love tohear them. Once again, this is
the Year of the Listener, andI would love for anyone listening to dive
in and give us some give ussome feedback or something. But we're gonna

(28:41):
ahead and take a quick break andwhen we come back, it's give me
time for what to see. WithSarah g Is, she explores Cape Town,
South Africa. Well. As mostof you know, I spent one
month in Cape Town, South Africain December and there was so much to
do, not only in Cape Town, but the surrounding areas. So I'll
give you a lay of the land, where to stay, what to do,

(29:03):
what to see all of that.So starting off with places to stay,
I actually stayed in one of theseproperties. It's called the neighbor Good
and they have about fourteen locations inSouth Africa and it's more for people who
are working and living there for aprolonged period of time, but it's also
just a hotel, so it's great. You have a private room, bathroom,

(29:25):
co working space, a private fridgein your room and then kitchen and
you can actually store all of yourstuff in the kitchen as well. The
location where I stayed at the Neighborhoodwas East City and although I liked the
brand Neighborhood. I wouldn't recommend stayingat that location just as far as safety
goes, but I would say ofall their other locations, there's some really

(29:45):
good picks that are closer to thebeach and in safer areas. So I
would recommend Neighborhood as a chain,but not exactly the East City location for
things to do. If you likethe city and party atmosphere or more of
a chill beach environment, Cape Townreally caters to both. I'm someone who
even a week trip, I tryto schedule in at least one chill day

(30:07):
so I don't completely feel burnt outby the end. So if that's you,
I would highly recommend spending at leastone full day at the beach.
There are two beaches closest to likethe metro Cape Town area. That is
either Camps Bay or Clifton Beach onethrough four, which confused me at first
because I was like, wait,Clifton one, two, three, four,
There are actually four beaches. It'sall one big beach, but they're

(30:30):
separated by all of these massive rocks. So to get to the second beach
you to have to like walk upand around or like walk over the Rocks,
but I highly recommend going to Clifton. It is a little bit trickier
to actually get to because it's nota lot of it's all these resorts or
airbnbs or apartments are right on theedge there, so they just walk down
from their building. There's not likea big public access area for one through

(30:53):
three, but I do think itis more private, and it, in
my opinion, was more beautiful becauseyou just look up and then you see
them mountains and you see all thesethings. So that's my recommendation. Camp
Spay is cool too if you preferto be right next to all of the
shops and restaurants just right off thestreet there, but just more crowded now
for hiking trails and views. There'sobviously the Lion's Head, which is probably

(31:15):
the most popular hiking spot and hasviews of the city. It is kind
of not dangerous in a sense ofI don't know dangerous both of itaus.
I guess I lied. There's thedanger of the muggings when I was there,
but I think there's more security officersthere now preventing the muggings from happening
during the summer months. But Iwould recommend if you do Lion's Head,

(31:37):
go in a group of three orfour people, and only bring what you
need, water, a shitty,like a cell phone, and like some
money, but don't bring all yourcredit cards and all your shit with you.
And I would make sure that youpack really good hiking shoes too,
because it is rocky on some areasand it is a hard hike. I
didn't actually end up being able todo it, but my friend Jen did.

(31:57):
She loved it. She went witha g It was a great experience
for her, which is cool.But if you still want those views and
you're thinking, yeah, this hike'sjust not in the cards for me,
there actually is another option. Youcan take the cable car up to Table
Mountain and there's Lion's Head and TableMountain And honestly, I mean I wasn't
online set, so I can't saythey have similar views. But you'll still

(32:19):
get the view of all of CapeTown from Table Mountain and you just take
the cable car up and you canhang out there. There's a restaurant up
there, there's another little hiking trailyou can hike up there. It's all
flat, it's nice, very nicecamera shots if you want to do all
of that, So Table Mountain withthe cable car is good if you want
to do that now. If timeis limited when you're in Cape Town and
you really want to see it all, I recommend booking a day trip tour.

(32:43):
I booked mine through via tour,and through this tour we went to
Bowcap, Boulders Beach, and theCape of Good Hope and it was a
really good, all encompassing tours fromeight am to basically six thirty, but
we hit everything so of that tour. The area Bowcap Number one is like
a really colorful neighborhood, but itis also known for not being the safest.

(33:06):
They don't recommend tourists going there lateat night, and they recommend going
early in the morning and in groupsso you can still check out the area,
be with a guide who actually knowswhich parts of the neighborhood to walk
around. You can take photos,You're in and out really quickly, and
it's more enjoyable that way. FromBocap, we went to Boulders Beach,
which was actually the highlight of mytrip. And at the beach, this
is known for seeing all of thepenguins that have a colony there. So

(33:30):
there are two ways that you cansee the penguins. One is from the
main access way where you walk onthe boardwalk and you see them from afar.
They're like just chillin by the shore, which is cool. But if
you go around to the beach entryway, you can climb on some rocks.
It is kind of challenging to climbover some of the rocks, but
you wear the right stuff and you'reprepared to climb on rocks and potentially get

(33:52):
a little wet. Based on thetides, you can see the penguins just
chilling in the water right next toyou. They's gonna be like a foot
away, so you can't touch them. You'll get fined, and you don't
want to get bitten. They dobite, So just hang out with the
penguins on the beach side. Andthat was probably one of the coolest parts
of that day trip and the tripin general, just to be like,

(34:13):
yeah, I went to Boulder's Beach. I was hanging out with penguins.
There is no guarantee though, ofseeing penguins, so it's just kind of
you could get over there and there'sonly one or two penguins, or you
could get on that side, andthere's a shit ton of them. Really
just depends. And then last butnot least, is the tour of the
Cape of Good Hope, which Ithought the Cape of Good Hope was the
southern tip of Africa where the IndianAtlantic Ocean meets, but actually that's not

(34:37):
true at all. There were allthese signs and restaurants saying two oceans restaurant.
I'm like, how fucking misleading isthat this isn't where the two oceans
are, you know, but everything'stwo oceans, the two oceans that but
it is the southwestern the most southwesternpoint of the continent. So from here
there is a really nice hiking trail. It is a little more challenging than

(34:59):
just walking on flatlin, but yousee some beautiful views of the coast.
There is a beach if you likewalk down, you're surrounded by all of
these boulders and it's beautiful colors andreally untouched area because there's not like people
living there anything. You have toenter through a gates like a national park,
protected land. But the Cape ofGood Hope was also a big highlight,
especially when you're there. It's onlyan hour from Cape Town, so

(35:20):
those are things I recommend for foodand drinks. I could list so many
places, but I will say numberone. There's this bar called Fable.
They have really creative craft cocktails andthe one favorite drink that I had,
you can dip a paintbrush in thedrink and then it changes colors. They
also had another drink where you gotkinky handcuffs and the server would like handcuff

(35:43):
you to your drink and you couldn'ttake your handcuffs off until you finish the
drink. So they just had reallyfun show body cocktails there. And then
as far as African food, Iwent to this place called Mama Africa,
which was a little touristy in myopinion, but it was one of the
only places in Cape Town where Isaw you could order either crocodile or zebra,
and I did order both and itwas delicious. Yeah, I want

(36:07):
to hear had alligator, but Ifeel like crocodiles like alligator because I've had
an alligator before. Zebra. Ididn't realize I should have thought about this
because zebra and horses are kind ofsimilar, right, So right, yeah,
so i'ld say the more like alsodeer like maybe like kind of a
venison, a little bit little gamy. I had no idea going and I

(36:27):
just thought like, maybe it's gonnabe like horse meat. I've never had
a horse meat. It tasted morelike steak to me, and when it
came out served, it just lookedlike a little six ounce thing, right,
So it was it was fucking deliciousand I really liked it. I'm
not going to order it again,but it was one of those things where
our whole group saw it on themenuent. I mean, they're serving it

(36:49):
and it's one of their featured items, so we should get it. But
yeah, if you want Zebra,you can go to mom Africa and then
other notable areas. There's the wineryand the wine Train that's about an hour
away from downtown Cape Town, andthen there's the Akila Aquilla. I honestly
I didn't go to this game reserve, but I have heard great things about
it. You can take four wheelerson this game reserve and it's about two
hours outside of Cape Town. Ifgoing to Kruger National Park and traveling more

(37:15):
throughout other parts of South Africa,is it in the plans. You can
stay within the Cape Town area andstill see Lion's drafts, and the Big
five five, the Big five.I guess I haven't mentioned this before because
just to you, the Big fivewhen you're on a safari, it is
lion, Oh my god, andI'm gonna forget it. It is lion,
buffalo, hang on, yeah,lion, buffalo, elephant, rhino,

(37:39):
and leopard leopard. So it's it'sthe animals that are hardest to track,
I see, okay, Yeah,which I didn't see. Leopard's probably
the hardest one. And we didn'tsee any leopards. We saw so many
zebra, so many hyenas, alot of you know, during my safari.
But yeah, leopard was hard,and rhinos were actually pretty hard to

(38:00):
spot, just depending on time ofyear that you go and where they're hanging
out. So yeah, that's prettymuch all I've got as far as like
enjoying Cape Town. I mentioned onanother episode, and I walked away from
the episode thinking I was a littlenegative on Cape Town, which I don't
want to come across that way.I just want you to be smart when
you travel to Cape Town, andany place can be safe or unsafe depending

(38:22):
on how prepared you are. Ireally enjoyed my time in Cape Town.
I think South Africa is a beautifulcountry, but just be alert. Don't
travel alone at night. If youdon't have to order an uber, if
you're going even just a couple blocksaway, it's safer. Only keep necessities
on you. This is probably thefirst place where I actually had to think
about safety a little bit more,and now I'm more aware of it in

(38:44):
general. And nothing bad. Again, nothing bad happened to me, but
I was just more alert than inprevious trips. So just right, be
smart sounds good. Yeah, thenthat's Cape Town, South Africa. I
like the idea of having like theyhad the cable, so if you don't
want to hike, you can stillgo get the views. Said, that's

(39:04):
a that's that's the evitable type oftravel right there. I mean, it
is a different mountain, but it'sright next to it, and what's a
difference. Honestly, you know,That's kind of how I felt at the
end of the trip, was likeI already saw the views. I really
don't need to go on a twohour hike and kill myself over similar views.
Now people would disagree with me,and that's fine, I'm probably wrong,
But what was what was the what'sthe water like at the beach?

(39:25):
Cold fucking cold? Okay, likeit's summer the Ice Bucket Challenge cold,
But it was summer there when youwere in there, it was summer.
Yeah, still cold, so temperatureswere warm. But yeah, it was
like seventies eighties out like the air. Yes, but the water. People
were saying, Oh, it's becauseof the ice in Antarctica. Is that

(39:49):
really true? I don't know.I guess maybe, well, because I
can imagine that the stream is there, is there, there's probably one of
the major major ocean streams that goesprobably right by the entire area. Oh
yeah, But I don't, youknow. I was just like it's cooling
in the water that's clear or likeor like ocean cloudy, like like oh

(40:09):
clear, Oh okay. Do youthink I would be raving about the beaches
if they were like Daytona beach.For a second, beach is nice,
beach is not like I mean,it's it's it's a fun beach. But
like, I don't I'm used tobeaches where you can't see down the water.
You know, you're just it's it'sjust you're swimming. You can't really
see in there. You know it'sit's just it's not clear. So no,

(40:30):
I mean they could still be nicebeaches, yes, sure, sure,
but I'm saying this beach had fivedifferent shades of blue as you were
looking at the ocean, and itwas something that I don't think I've really
ever seen before, maybe in Thailandwhere the water was this kind of blue,
but so many different parts were liketurquoise, dark blue and whatever.

(40:51):
And yeah, not muddy, notcloudy, just straight up beautiful. That's
cool. And penguin's but no graywhites because that's the That's my other question
of the question concern was that Iwould imagine sharks would hang out whe penguins
were probably so not there. There'sa beach. It starts with an M.
I can't think of it. Wedidn't go there. It's a little
further away from Cape Town. It'slike a thirty minute drive. That's where

(41:12):
all the surfing is and they haveall the surf competitions and that's more known
for shark attacks. But our guidewas saying that they have shark lookout stations
and they haven't had a shark actuallycome into where the bay where all the
surfers and stuff are in a reallylike probably twenty years. So they watch
for sharks, but they don't,you know, they don't have any attacks
or anything like that. Because Iwas thinking about going surfing too, so

(41:35):
it's like, well, I've surfedin South America, so let's do Africa
now. But it's fine. Idon't it was too cold for you.
I think I would. I hada wetsuit on when I did it in
Chile, so yeah, in awetsuit. But I maybe it's just I
would suck at surfing. So doI really want to go through surfing again?
And I mean, I honestly can'timagine laying on a board and then

(41:58):
as you're traveling through the water beingable to push yourself up to a standing
physician looking hard. Yeah, itbothers my mind. So yeah, I
can't. I've never been able toeither contemplate the concept of surfing, so
yeah, I could get that.Yeah. So oh all right, well
very cool. Well thank you somuch. We're going to take a quick
break. And when we got backand we get to the topic of the
cost of loving. For those whodon't know me personally, I think about

(42:22):
money a lot. Adam can attestto this. I have a financial tracking
sheet, and I track everything downto the penny. I know what I'm
saving investing, how much I'm spendingon groceries month to month, what I'm
and I've been tracking this since twentynineteen, so I know where how much
I was spending as a single personversus now. And I've seen a lot

(42:45):
of talks just online and in generalabout oh, well, people in relationships,
they save more money on this andthis and that, and it's just
so much cheaper to be in arelationship. And then i was comparing my
finances being single, and I'm like, well, on some things, I
say save money, and then onother things not so much. I feel
like I'm spending more money on theactivities in the food category. So I

(43:06):
think it's important to just kind oftalk about the cost when it comes to
either being single or in a relationshipor dating, because there's finances tied to
every single side of that. Yeah, and I don't follow finances at all,
and I'm really bad with financing.I try to help you get budgeting.
You try, Yeah, you tried, and you actually helped me set
up a budget. One of thefirst times I've ever done a budget in

(43:28):
my entire life, which I started. Then I took your advice and to
start my own in January so ofthis year. So this is the first
year I'm actually trying to do this. So I don't pay attention to this
stuff at all, Like it's justlike I'm like money, it's it'll come
back soon, you know. Andso so I think I think it's interesting.
I'm going to learn more on thisepisode than that I think you will
this case. So I'm interested tohear kind of what types of things you

(43:50):
found out. Okay, So Ijust did some baseline research of how much
it costs for a date and justplaces to live. So in twenty twenty
one, Zeus had looked at howmuch a romantic date might cost across the
United States and it came to aroundninety seven sixty seven. So it just
said romantic date. So I'm like, is that dinner and then another activity?

(44:15):
That's kind of how it reads tome than just dinner, because I
think you can do a nice dinnerfor two for around fifty dollars. Yeah,
I would say if you don't gosomewhere like too high end. And
of course we don't recommend on afirst date that you go on it,
right, You're right, Yeah,I'm just saying a date in general.
Yeah, I mean, I guessif I were to go out on a
date, I would right now,I would be like if I walked away,

(44:37):
somewhere between sixty to ninety is probablywhat I would expect. Yeah,
in that range. Yeah, thatmakes sense. When Roy and I go
out and I pick up the bill, I mean, it doesn't really matter.
It's about the same whether he picksup the bill or I pick up
the bill. But it ranges fromaround fifty to ninety dollars. If we
did a happy hour or not,it's about the same. You know,
it doesn't matter who picks it up. No, you don't bait that at

(44:58):
all, U or what I do? Pay it? I do pay it
because I mean the thing that Ispend way more money on now in a
relationship than when I did when Iwas single is dining out. My dining
out bill in twenty nineteen, twentytwenty, I was maybe spending one hundred
and fifty dollars a month. Maybe, I mean, because that girl dinner

(45:20):
like TikTok crazes, that was melike that. The fact is that it's
funny how much that is you like, or it was you, you know,
basically your idea of dinner, orsometimes you just like, oh,
I got to back a shred cheesetonight, and like we gotta be talking
on the phone or like FaceTime,you just be eating shredded cheese out of
a bag as your fucking dinner.Yeah, And I saved a lot of
fuck it, I was broke makingfifty thousand dollars a year paying for a

(45:40):
studio apartment and all these other studentloans and stuff. So I had to
cut back where I had to.And food is just not something that I
prioritize all the time, you knowit Just as long as I'm not hungry,
I'm good, right, So thatwas an area where I wasn't spending
money. Where now I budget aroundthree hundred to four hundred dollars a month

(46:01):
for dining out. And it's notjust me going out and spending lunch here
and there. It's probably one totwo times a week Roy and I going
out and having dinner. And yeswe do alternate. Who pity, you
know, it's it's your turn,is at my turn, and every other
time one of us pays. Buteven then, going out two times a
week, or picking up something randomlyin the middle of the week because we

(46:21):
don't feel like cooking. It addsup. Yeah, yeah, so that
that is one area where I spendmore in a relationship. Anyways, just
doing some of the math on dates, we have from fifty to one hundred
dollars depending on the restaurant. ButI think dating in general, you can
do dating for cheap if you wantto do something free and do something like

(46:43):
a coffee date or something just thetwo of you going on a hike or
what I'm obviously again not talking aboutfirst dates, but going somewhere where you're
out out doing something with your partnersignificant other, where you can do something
on the cheaper end and just graba cup of coffee and it be fine.
My expenses, and this is onethat a lot of people talk about
as far as rent goes. Myexpenses as a single person in Nashville in

(47:06):
twenty twenty got a factor in inflation. My rent was thirteen hundred dollars for
a barely five hundred square foot studioapartment. Studio apartment. My utilities were
one hundred and seventy dollars, Sothat's internet, gas, electricity, water.
My grocery bill was three hundred dollarsa month and dining out was one
fifty. So what do you spendright now as a single person in twenty

(47:30):
twenty four in Tulsa. So rightnow, rent which includes my parking space,
is like fifteen hundred a month.Bad. That's for one bedroom.
That's what nine hundred square feet thousand? Yeah, okay. Utilities are about
eighty bucks a month pretty reasonably.Why this is so cheap? Oh my
god, that's the Yeah, that'sI mean in the middle of the winter

(47:52):
with the heat on too, itactually wasn't that bad. Groceries. I'm
still trying to figure out groceries becauseI'm buying them, you know, regularly,
But I think it's about three underbucks a month right now and buying
actually buying go out buying groceries,and then for me, like dining out
is about six hundred bucks a month, which I include if I door dash
stuff in. Yeah, yeah,that's what I But because I also know

(48:12):
that if I go out by myselfjust to like, hey, I'm gonna
go out for the night. OnceI'm out, I'm going to try to
stay out because I don't I don'tgo out every night. I'd usually stay
in a lot, but I'm like, yeah, I'm going to make the
most of it. So if Igo out at five or six, I'm
going to be out till midnight.And so it's not usual for me to
have a hundred to spend one hundreddollars by the time my night's over,
just me having bar food and drinkingbasically, you know, having a meal

(48:36):
out at a bar when I getthere, and then usually around midnight or
one am, you want your fourthmeal of course, because you know you're
drunk, and you're like, Ineed more food, you know, me
want food, and so you haveto go get something else. So I
would say that, uh, youknow that that that adds up pretty quickly.
So if I only go out,you know, a night a week,
it's very easy for me to hithit six hundred dollars in a month
and just dining out by myself,purely single, without without like, without

(49:00):
in corporating taking somebody else out,you know. So that's a that's a
lot. Yeah, well, youknow, drinking. Drinking is expensive,
you know it is, even eventhough if you don't you know, even
if you don't drink expensive things thatcan add up. I don't like beer.
I don't like wine, but likeyou know, voggun red bull,
that kind of adds up. Ithink that's important though, because it can
vary whether you're in a relationship oryou're single. How much you spend on

(49:22):
a certain category can really vary dependingon what you value. Right, you
value dining out and drinking, andyou know, doing certain experiences where you
continue to spend money. And that'stotally cool as long as it's like budgeted
in and you're not like going broke, that's great. Where it's like other
people wouldn't spend in that category asmuch. It might be saving towards something

(49:43):
else to eventually spend money. Yeah, I think that's true, and and
I think, yeah, if you'renot, And I'm like, it's funny
because I'm not a big drinker anymore. I don't. I go out maybe
once a week and that's about it, maybe twice. But it does.
It is easy to like for thosethings to so you have to kind of
pay attention to it. Going ona date has been interesting and and I

(50:05):
think that dating is going to be. The expenses are different for dating woman
versus a man who's dating even withtoday, because I still I have I
feel an obligation to pay, likeif if at all possible, I'm gonna
be if someone like says, hey, I'll get the next one. Even
if she invites you out on thedate and asks you out, you still
feel obligated. Probably yeah, atleast for the like maybe the first round.

(50:27):
I don't feel obligated, and thenlike if she's I'll get the second
round, that's fine. But Ijust tend to do that. And so
I found that that's that even asas I continue to date, someone still
pay for things. And I don'tknow if it's just I tend to date
people who are more broke than Iam, So that's also part of it.
Could that be, you know,maybe part of it too. I

(50:49):
mean that that is something to keepin mind though, and that that is
something that causes stress in relationships ingeneral, is when one person makes more
money than the other. How doI now, I don't always want to
be spending money every time I goout. I'd like it to be more
split. I mean, maybe somepeople feel like that. I feel like
that, so I'm maybe I'm projecting. Maybe other people don't just like when

(51:13):
when when I dated Tickerbell, youknow, she didn't really have a job.
She had like certain income coming inoccasionally, like gig gig economy type
income, but otherwise didn't really havea lot. So usually it'd be like,
let's go out. I got thisevery you know, every time.
You know, no, it didn'tdidn't bother me. But I'm just saying
it adds up like it doesn't doesn'tbother me. I'm happy to do so.

(51:36):
And I also think by the waythat and we talked, we did
an episode of this, and Ithink my opinion on this has changed a
little bit because I think over timeI started really assessing it as I think
that men have more of an obligationto pay for things on dates with with
strangers, like not someone they're datingregularly, but like dating new dates.
Because of the effort that women putinto it, and also the pink tax

(51:57):
and everything like that, I thinkwomen go into it in the negative.
Basically they're already starting out the negative. So having the man pick up that
that makes sense, so that thatcould change your costs as well. And
I think that that's something that youprobably didn't really have to think about you're
expenses as a single person versus withI mean I did. When I was
going out on dates, I didfactor in, Okay, if I end

(52:19):
up paying for this date. Iyou know, I assumed he would probably
pick up the check. But ifhe didn't. It's not like I would
decline and say no, you haveto pay. But I always had it
figured in of like, Okay,I'll probably end up spending fifty to sixty
dollars tonight, depending on where wego for this date. And I was
ready to pay that. But yeah, at the end of the day,
most times I was picking up likea tab for drinks at one place,

(52:44):
and then the next place he wouldpick up something else. So it wasn't
as much as I think it wouldhave been if if I was the man
in the situation, which is whyyou know, a lot of men say
dating is so expensive. It's like, yeah, because one, how many
dates are you going on in aweek? Do you really need to be
going on like three or four datesa week every other night? Yeah,

(53:05):
that's that's a good definitely a goodthing that's considered too because it me I
was doing that right, and thatwould have been really expensive if I was
expected to pay every single time,not that I cadn You say when you
were in your earlier twenties that thingswere so tight that there were times where
you, like, you're broke,you would try to schedule a date so
that you would get a dinner.Yes, but I was like, God,

(53:29):
I hope you pay. It's notlike I couldn't pay for it,
right, But you were like,but I was. I was really hoping
that he would pay because it wouldbe really beneficial for me to at least
like have a bigger meal. Andthis was like single living in Nashville on
my own for the first time,Like I was making even less. I
thought this was Florida. I thoughtthis was when you were in Orlando.
That was a whole sugar baby's sugardaddy situation that was so different where he

(53:52):
wanted to spend the money on that. So I was like, Okay,
we can go have a nice dinner. But in Nashville, when I was
literally making forty thousand dollars a yearpaying off all these student loans and a
car payment and everything, I didnot have extra money to really set aside
for dating. And I was mygrocery bill a week was like thirty five
dollars and I was fucking roughing it, dude, I had I had no

(54:14):
money, like I worked a secondjob, I had no money, and
yeah, going out on dates,I was like, fuck, I fifteen
dollars for a drink. I,oh, this is gonna break my bud.
Like I would get anxious about itwhen the bill would come and I'm
like, fuck, this is gonnahurt if I end up having to pay,
and he would pick it up,and it was just such a relief.
And then that made me think maybeI shouldn't be fucking dating because yeah,

(54:35):
you know, if the check doescome my way and he said no,
let's split it or whatever, wouldI be comfortably financially picking it up.
And the answer was no. Mostof the time, For at least
that first six months of living inNashville, I did not have the money.
Yeah. Yeah, I had afew of those in when I was
struggling. I think it was rightpost pandemic before I left Florida, when

(55:00):
I would go out with somebody andI'm like, I'm going to cover it,
but like I really don't want to, yeah, but I'm going to.
And then and then like it's funnybecause somehow our conversation will talk about,
you know, things being tight orwhatever, and like I had two
different women that I went out withhere with like I'm gonna cover like I'm
gonna cover drinks tonight, Like Iwanted to be on me, but I
was just because our conversation somehow wentaround when everything that had been happening and

(55:22):
everything, and I think they justlike, oh, I let me,
let me cover this. And Iwas like, Okay, I'm not going
to argue, and it was abig relief to actually have it happen.
Yeah, all right. So beyondand beyond that, what other types of
like expenses have you seen, Likethe differences in rent, So renting as
a single person in Nashville, Ispent thirteen hundred dollars a month on a

(55:45):
like five hundred square foot apartment likeI mentioned, and renting with Roy in
Nashville, I was paying a littlebit more than half because I'm making I
was making more than him. Sowe negotiated that I pay a little bit
more in rent, which was fine. I was still paying thirteen hundred dollars
a month for now a two bed, two bath over twelve hundred square feet,
so I'm getting more space and I'mpaying the exact same amount. So

(56:07):
one, I'm good. I'm justlike not in the negative, but I
feel like I'm similar in that ifyou count space, whatever, utilities,
I went from paying like one hundredand seventy a month to now only paying
one hundred because I'm splitting the internet, the electricity, the whatever, which
was a lot cheaper. But Ithink those were, like, really my

(56:28):
big two things where I was savingmore money was on rent and utilities.
Living with a partner, right,and also because now obviously you moved to
somewhere we're more expensive as well.Well. Seattle. Yeah, Seattle's kind
of a buve. I'm comparing similarmarkets of Nashville. I knew I could
get something similar. We're now inSeattle. I'm spending sixteen hundred dollars a
month in rent. But if Iwas a single person in Seattle who wanted

(56:52):
a one bedroom, one bath,I would be paying two thousand dollars a
month, probably minimum. So Irecognize the cost savings. I'm saving a
round four hundred dollars I would assumeby living with a partner in Seattle versus
being single in Seattle. What aboutthings like streaming services and stuff like that,
Like, do you guys split thator do you just each like you

(57:12):
like, I'll pay for Netflix ifyou pay for Hulu or are you just
all on all my cads. Iwas gonna say, I don't. Hey,
oh I got added on that one. I was like, I don't
pay for Max because I'm on Atoms. I don't pay for Netflix because we're
on Roy's and Royce gets Who's throughhis phone plan, so it's basically free.
I don't pay for Hulu because Ipay for Spotify and that's coupled together.

(57:37):
So for twelve twelve bucks a month, I get Hulu and Spotify covered.
So we watch stuff on Hulu allthe time. But that's undermine and
what other streaming ser I mean,that's that's really it are? Okay,
I couldn't remember that you're on anyof my other ones too anyway, unless
I, oh, Amazon Prime,I do use your Amazon Prime if there's
like Marvelous Mismats all I want towatch, but yeah for them, I

(58:00):
like, I can definitely pay forthose myself. But it's kind of just
if there's a show we want towatch, we're going to find a way
to watch it and then that's nota big deal. I'm just trying to
think of other other like minor expensesyou might not consider, you know,
like that if you get like ifyou get into a relationship and they already
have the all the like all thestuff they're already subscribing, they might not
ever think about the fact that thatit's like, oh, you want to

(58:22):
take over half of them or anythinglike that, Like that might not and
might not be something, you know, and with streaming services being such a
big thing that that's you know,one thing and there's all types of those.
And then like internet, you guyssplit I'm guessing. But the nice
thing is with both of you werecoming from home. It's also deductible for
your taxes too, when you eventuallyget you know, get to that point.
Yeah. Well, and being theinternet and living with Roy, he's

(58:45):
a gamer, so he needs thehigher tier internet where when it was just
myself, I was on the cheapestforty five dollars Exfinity thing where now we're
on the eighty dollars a month onebecause we need to have it. And
it's so funny too living with apartner. I want to cut expenses as
much as possible. So in mymind, when we move together in together
in Nashville, I was thinking,Okay, we're gonna split a one bed,

(59:07):
one bath. Rent's gonna be fifteenhundred. We're gonna split that in
half. We're gonna be paying likeseven to fifty a month. This is
gonna be so great. I'm gonnabe saving so much fucking money. And
then he was like, we're gonnakill each other in a one bed,
one bath, especially if we're bothworking from home. How does that work
out? So I do, I'mpaying similar prices, but I am getting

(59:27):
more space. That makes sense.What about the cost of things like who
decides what the thermostat said at whenyou're when you're both you know, when
you're paying splitting utilities and things likethat, he decides that you decide it?
Well normally, well, yeah,we only do heat we since it's
tied to his. We don't havea the we don't have air conditioning.

(59:49):
But when we were living together atNashville, I did not give a fuck.
I was like, if I'm uncomfortable, I'm changing the thermostat. I
don't care. Because it was alsoso much cheaper for utilities that was me
coming to terms with living with apartner. Oh. I was so afraid
to bump up the heat or turndown the air when I live by myself
because I knew that bill was goingto be thirty dollars more a month or

(01:00:09):
fifty dollars more depending. But nowthat I'm splitting with a partner, it's
only twenty bucks more a month orwhatever that it doesn't hurt as much.
So I didn't care. Ah,okay, okay, that makes sense.
You know. That was a nicething about When I had my house and
even though I had renters who weresubletting from me, I paid utilities.
They were included in their rent basically, so I was in control of the

(01:00:30):
thermostats, so they were not allowedto. Uh, there was, but
you didn't make those so hot orso cold that it sucked cold. I
mean I kept ac at like youknow, seventy especially in the summer and
stuff, so like they would complainabout it being cold. I was like,
well, you can always put anothersweater on, I said, you
know, if you're cold, youcan put a blanket on. I said,
I like it nice and cool,especially during the day when I'm working
there and everything. You know,and then in the winter, I would

(01:00:51):
never turn the heat on at all, Like, what's the point it's at
Florida until like people, someone wouldcomplain and be like, oh, I
guess I can put the heat ona little bit, like you know,
sixty five or something maybe. Butthat was a nice thing about being completely
in control of that, because that'sone area I could see that being a
little bit of an issue when you'reboth splitting the costs. Yeah, now
that's a good point I do thinktoo, as far as just living somewhere.

(01:01:14):
Obviously Roy and I are not marriedand we're not at the point of
buying a house, but you geta lot more benefits of the down payment
and purchasing a home versus a singleperson where you have to pay all of
that upfront yourself. Yeah. Andthere's also the cost benefit of tax filing
to joint filing. You know,what is it, joint filing? Yeah,
but yeah, you get cost theretoo. So it seems like the

(01:01:40):
cost of loving, as we wantto call it, is I mean limited
to like food and rent, shelter. Yeah, that is that? Like,
is that what we're boiling it downto? Essentially? I think when
you're comparing being single and being ina relationship with the benefits you get.
Yeah, I mean what else wouldthere be? I mean that's why I'm

(01:02:06):
so I wonder like things like Ifeel like anytime you add another person into
the mix, there you add theseother expenses for things like and that's whether
you're going on dating, you're goingon dates or in a relationship, like
new experiences things like that, likenew things to do together so that doesn't
get boring, you know, orwhatever, like or or when you're dating,
like, hey, there's these someonenew came to town. Let's go

(01:02:27):
see them that you might not seeby yourself. But because you're dating someone
or because you're on a date,like they might both reasons you might spend
the money to do that. SoI would say, like there's a third
category, which is just like youknow, single, dating nobody and and
just get a roommate and then thenyou end up you could still eat girl
dinner. But at the same time, you know, money going on to
well, but I don't know,I just I was thinking about that.

(01:02:50):
There's also the other it's not reallya cost, but it's like the cost
of free time. I think aboutwhen I was single, I had to
do all of the house chores.I had to take out the you know,
doing all those things. Where withwhen you live with either a roommate
or a partner, you have morefree time now because you don't have to
pick up all of those other responsibilities. It does ease up on that unless

(01:03:12):
you're with someone who is incompetent andis not pulling their part, you know,
their end of the bargain with householdresponsibilities. And that's another conversation.
But for the most part, it'slike, Yeah, I think I spend
less time cleaning certainly, like doinglaundry or whatever around the house, because
I don't have to because someone elseis picking up a certain portion of the
work and I pick up the otherhalf. I have a house cleaner,

(01:03:36):
so I guess, oh that's acost. See, but that's a cost
of being single for you. Yeah, without it, you'd still keep the
cleaner, yes, one hundred percent, Like it doesn't matter, Like that's
an expense I'm gonna have regardless ofwhether somebody is here or not. I
mean, I like that organized.I like to keep things, you know,
and I don't I like doing laundry. I like I like doing the
dishes, Like, I like thattype of stuff too, I just don't

(01:03:58):
like I don't like cleaning bathrooms andI don't like like mopping and vacuuming.
For some reason, that stuff Idon't like. So having someone come every
two weeks this makes it even better. And I think that, you know,
as far as a partner with that, yeah, I would do the
same thing even if they thought itwas a ridiculous expense or something like that,
I'd be like, that's just that'smy it's budgeted in it is.
Yeah, it's the it's in mybudget. I wrote it in there.

(01:04:20):
That means it's there now I canjust account for it automatically. Yeah.
Do you think do you think thatpeople who date should budget like that?
Like, do you think that itshould be something that they really look at
when they're dating or should we notpay attention to the financial aspects of it
and look for love that's a trick. Well, the way that you asked
that question, I'm like, well, I mean, yeah, you don't

(01:04:44):
want finances to ruin potential matches andgetting to know somebody. But I do
know from other relationships, money isa big issue for a lot of people,
so it might not be the factthat one person makes a lot more
than the other. It might justbe how someone handles their finances and that's
the issue in the relationship. Likethey both make the same amount of money,

(01:05:08):
but one person spends, spend,spends, and the other person saves.
That might not be a good setupfor a relationship long term. So
I think that I think that mattersmore than who's tracking what or whatever.
I think if you have a similarmindset going into your finances with whoever you're
dating, that's fine that I thinkyou can work on that and you can

(01:05:30):
discuss, Hey, maybe let's notspend this much money on food this month
they're eating out. Hey, let'stalk about what's important for you to spend
money. Like, for example,I like to spend all of my money
on experiences, and Roy likes tospend all of his money on things like
high quality products, and it annoyshim when I skimp on something as fucking

(01:05:54):
simple as socks. Right, Iget the cheapest fucking socks out there,
whatever, that's not important. It'slike the dollar pack in Walmart, right,
But he buys like twenty dollars socksthat are very nice quality, And
I have a couple of pair,and I do have to say they are
really fucking nice, but they're likethey're never going It's like the darn Tough
brand. They're never going to fuck. If they get a hole in it,

(01:06:15):
you get a new pair, andif anything happens to it, they're
waterproof. Blah blah blah. Thenice things are nice, but that's not
what I always prioritize, right,I'll hand pick. So it's figuring out
with that person that you're dating,what do you value as far as when
you spend your money, is itexperiences or things? And how can you
kind of come together to make itwork? Makes sense? Yeah, I

(01:06:38):
think that's very true. Yeah,and that is a conversation that that can
be a major sticking point for manyrelationships too. Yeah. Now do you
think that this also means that womenshould excuse men who on a first date
just invite a woman to come overinstead because they're because the cost of actually
going on a date. I havean issue with that, just because it's
like, no, I do too. I was not asking. I don't

(01:06:58):
think it's good. That was adisagenuine question. It's like I could tell
from your face, but I don'tit's not just about the money, right,
I think you can. You cando things on the cheaper side and
still make a good experience out ofit. And I think number one going
into it, if you are ina position, don't be immature like me
and say, oh fuck, Ihope he picks up the duke because I

(01:07:19):
have no money and this date,this bill will make me fucking broke.
Then you should evaluate if you evenneed to be on the date. But
if you're upfront with the person thatyou're dating and going, hey, let's
pick something cheaper. Let's maybe notorder fifteen dollars cocktails because I would like
to treat you, but I reallyit's not in my budget right now.
Let's find something more cost effective.And if if they fucking judge you for

(01:07:42):
that because of your situation at thetime, you don't need to fucking date
them because they're shallow as hell andthey're not probably not a good person,
right, But if they're understanding whenyou say those things and they work on
a compromise, then you could that'sgreat and you can go from there.
Yeah, no, I agree,And I think like if if you are
if you are kind of struggling menand you're looking for, you know,
someone to day and you match withsomebody and you're talking to them and you

(01:08:03):
want to schedule something, It's okayto be like, hey, yeah,
let's go out here, you know, like I've got you know, I'm
I'm stretching my budget right now,but I think it'd be nice to meet
you. I'd love to meet fora couple of drinks and like set that
standard, that expectation that you're goingto pay for. But it's also not
going to be a long night.It's also not full meal. It's just
meeting somebody. If they do judgeyou, if they do have a problem

(01:08:23):
with that, then that is definitelyon them. That is not something that
you should have to put up with. And I feel like, you know,
women should also, you know,be maybe be more aware of that.
It's women who are maybe more concernedwith appearance than actually meeting somebody who's
going to be decent, you know, might have an issue with it.
But if you're you know, lookingat actually making a good connection, sometimes

(01:08:44):
having a little bit of an empathycan be useful on both ends. Yeah,
and don't be so shallow, likehaving the empathy and not being shallow
because I speaking from experience swiping onpeople in the past and going, oh,
he's a teacher, he's not goingto have a lot of money.
That's pretty fucked up. Like I'vethrown myself out there. But I didn't
say those things. And I'm like, wow, I'm not saying it was

(01:09:05):
a good thing. Who that's crazy, But coming from someone who was broke,
that's like, I'd like to datesomebody, but I can't. We
can't both be broke. I mean, it was just like a broke mindset
of just constantly judging other people fornot making money when I wasn't making money
myself and feeling really self conscious aboutyou, which is what projection exactly,

(01:09:26):
which is where most people were Usuallymost negative things that happen are because of
projection. It's because someone's taking theirown feeling about themselves and projecting on other
people. Yeah, and it's it'snot healthy. And looking back on it
now, I was like, thatwas so fucking shallow of me to think
and not match with someone or continuea conversation because of that fact, and
like, like, so shitty ofme fucking six seven years ago, Sarah,
But I did it and whatever.But now, looking from a stance

(01:09:51):
of I'm older. It's finances areimportant, especially when you're struggling. And
you went with Roy and he wasunemployed. So look at this shift in
your at Well that's the crazy thing, right, is that twenty let's say,
twenty sixteen year old me would havenever gone out with Roy because he
was unemployed. He was struggling,the pandemic, everything that was happening.

(01:10:13):
But I was in a place whereI was confident in my finances. I
could pick up the bill. Iwasn't struggling like I was a couple of
years, you know, before that. I was like, oh, this
is not a problem because I thisis fine. And definitely he was coming
from a place of being self consciousand wanting to do things. But we
talked about it because we had bothbeen in that state of being broke as
fuck and not having money. Soit's different that time around and not an

(01:10:34):
issue. Yeah, that's crazy,Yeah happened really. Yeah. See,
Look, I'm not always shitty.I was just shitty for a certain period
of time. And so someone mentionedthat on a Facebook group, one hundred
percent owning up to it, thatwas not mature. I mean, how
would they know, right, Ijust swiped left on them anyways, But

(01:10:55):
right, that's truely, Yeah,but like people, I know, I
can't be the only person who judgespeople based off of whatever it says in
their whether it says entrepreneur or whateverthe fuck, because they're like, oh,
well, he must think he hasmoney or oh he's brought, like
some things that face value are thatshitty? Oh yeah, no, it's
okay. Like, I mean,we all make, especially on swiping,

(01:11:16):
we make those kinds of judgment callsbased on a variety of things. Jobs.
I think women are probably more likelyto look at a job and make
a decision based on that, andI think, you know, men are
obviously more shallow when it comes andjust like looks and attracted, like they
might make an immediate decision without evenconsidering someone might be worth worth their time
otherwise. Yeah, but that's whyI probably don't get many matches right now

(01:11:38):
in Oklahoma because I have podcasters myjob title. Yeah, I mean,
just you know, i'd like toI'd honestly like to know if people still
are that shallow, because coming atit now, I don't think if I
was swiping again, I would bein the same mindset in conservative redneck Oklahoma.
Yes they are. Yeah. Youknow, like if I if I
put out as a farmer, it'dbe fine, really, I think so.

(01:12:00):
I think something like a podcaster,I think does doesn't fit in very
well in that sense. Yeah,well damn well. I really want to
know from people, like, whatis the cost that you spend on dating
or just like the cost of lovingin general? Do you find it more
beneficial to be single or in arelationship based on where you're living and where

(01:12:21):
you're at? Yeah, and howmuch have you had to weigh the financial
cost versus the emotional cost too,because like there's a there. Like I
said, financially, I think it'sthe most makes most financial sense to be
just single and just rent out spaceto somebody and just that that's the cheapest
way to live. But is thatalso the most emotionally emostally emotionally in a

(01:12:41):
riching way to live, you know, and the physically an intimately way enriching
way to live. So love tohear your thoughts on that. You can.
You can call our hotline and giveyour thoughts at four oh seven five
one nine zero one eight one.Once again, please, we want to
really hear from our listeners. Thistime we want to get email a Data
kind of Sucks podcast at gmail dotcom, or join our Facebook group and

(01:13:03):
to share your thoughts there at Facebookdot com slash Groups slash DKs podcast.
Don't worry, No one's suing inthat Facebook group. Yeah, you don't
worry about that either, And foras little as five bucks a month,
you can join our Patreon at Patreondot com slash dcs podcast. Almost every
episode we record a bonus one afterand it's just us kind of talking,

(01:13:23):
hanging out, just saying more thingsyou wouldn't hear on the podcast. You
can also watch all of the uneditedclips that I hate on YouTube at YouTube
dot com slash Dating kind of Sucks. It's very wrong when we fuck up.
The fuck up is there and youget to see everything unedited, unedited,
unedited, yes, because I've gotI don't have enough time to edit

(01:13:44):
all that shit out, so Ijust throw it all out there. Yeah,
it's right. You can follow uson our social media's Instagram at Dating
kind of Sucks. We have personalinstagrams of course, and TikTok's at adam
Ofvitable and at simply surag, Underscoreand this is our biweekly plea that if
you listen to us on Apple podcastsand our iTunes, we want more reviews
and ratings, five star rating andreview because I think our last one was

(01:14:04):
a while ago and early twenty twenty. I think twenty this is twenty twenty
four, so I think we actuallyhave we I think we have one for
twenty twenty three on there now.Okay, but we got we got like
a bunch when we first started thepodcast, but now we really would like
some of our newer listeners to leaveus a five star rating in our review
on iTunes and on Spotify as well. You know, you can follow,
you can like you can share witha friend or share it with somebody who

(01:14:27):
needs to hear it, and thatwould be great. Are you out of
town in two weeks or are youactually I'll be in Nicaragua, Nicaragua,
Okay, So we may or maynot have an episode two weeks, depends
if we get our shit together andactually recorded early, or if we're recording
Nicaragua. I guess, so,I guess we're going to figure that out.
I'm like, now our streak's goingaway again. It's gonna say monthly
now will we lasted a month,yeah, and then all of a sudden,

(01:14:48):
Sarah's gone again. But now we'llfigure it out, and so we
will have an episode back to yousoon. Until that time, whether you're
merried or single or probably your afor hanging out with swingers, backing your
place, listen to us and beginningto buck a tender and buffle of plenty
of young's trying and trying and happento bluck because we all know dating kind

(01:15:11):
of sucks. Sarah and Adam areduapa kid. He says stupid shit and
she doesn't mind. They're not doingwith this son't make any fuck life as
a chicken woos. They say,bluck, why does it work? We'll
hear with the cruck. They bothknow dating kind of sucks. Dating kind of sucks

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Is Dating Expensive? A Look at the Cost of Loving.

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