August 18, 2025 • 47 mins
Max and Rob share their thoughts and takeaways from the second preseason game this past weekend.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello and welcome inside the locker room with the King
and Starks, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store. Here on
this tip is Audio Network alongside Max Starks. I'm Rob
King Justin Miller with the controls. Happy to have him
with us. And Max, how are you, my friend?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm doing good, King, heer.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It is uh, it's nice not to be in a
dorm room on the road, you know, it's it's good
to be home. I mean it's been a minute since
I was home. So happy to see the family and
then get back into the.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Swing of things here.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
But look forward, you know, to getting back to uh,
you know, to you guys on on Thursday when we
take on the Panthers. So a little short week home,
but but well deserved, well earned.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Were you able to get a little celebration with Quincy
who turned at getting on Saturday night?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Well, yes, yep, on Saturday, yeah, yesterday. You know when
I got in, I mean we hit the ground running.
We went, we got breakfast, we had we had birthday
breakfast together and then we went to this place, Kinger
and you know your kids have now you're now out
of this age range where you have to do the
physically strenuous activities, you know, for their pleasure in your burden.
(01:29):
We went to this place called Activate and I will
just say this. I thought I was in shape. I
am not in shape. I am not in activate shape.
And this is so the concept of this place is
you could pick thirty sixty or ninety minutes. Of course
my child picked the ninety minutes, right, you know, more fun,
more time.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yay.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
We get in there and we've never done. They give
you this. They give you one of those little RFID
like kind of wristbands put on your wrists. You scan
in and stuff and it will give you points and
everything as you go complete these tests. It's thirteen different
rooms and you can go you wait in line. There's
all these different games associated with each room. So you
could have one that's like shooting basketball hoops you know
(02:14):
as a team or you know as as as competitive
like head to head, and you got one. It's like
this humongous like light wall that's like almost two hundred and.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Seventy degrees around, and you know, there's there's.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
This laser laser mazes. There's there's these throwing things where
you have to throw like at asteroids to you know
they're coming at you, and the word search is like
all this stuff. It's like physical activity in each room.
Each like session that you do in a room lasts
about a minute to a minute and a half. So
now this is literally like interval training or circuit training.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Then and you get to pay for the pleasure of
doing this.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
You get to play for the pleasure of ninety minutes
of pain. Can I tell you my back locked up
At one point as we were going underneath these lasers,
I just started I just started.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
A barrel rolling down on the ground.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I think I almost sprained my ankle trying to play
this hopscotch thing with the laser with my daughter. It
was but it well, you know what, but it was fun.
But it was the ninety minutes that got me. It
was like ninety minutes and you're just going from room
to room to room to room and we've never done
it before. And there's like maybe there's like maybe five
(03:24):
to seven game options in each at each room. So
if you want to switch again, you got to step
out the room, reprogram it, scan in, and then go
back in and you're all what and all the while
you're collecting points along with it. But it was fun. So
we did that for a birthday and she she had
she had a blast. Good.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I'm glad of that. It sounds like fun.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
And yes, I've graduated to the to the roll out
of the car and go to a wine tasting.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
That's kind of exactly, see exactly exactly wine tasting. Or
you can go to a bar and just hang out,
have a nice quiet dinner, you know, yeah, nothing, Yeah,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So but you know what enjoy as every as every
parent knows, every age is an epic, every page is
its own, its own chapter, and then at some point,
you know, there's just like one long chapter called the
rest of your life. So so enjoy it. I'm sure
you are. It sounds like you did. Did you enjoy
(04:23):
Saturday Night? It kind of a I don't know if
it was the crispest, cleanest game I've ever seen. You know,
I was asked about it this morning on DVE and
what I thought about it. I think that the thing
I was going to take out of it, Max is
that some of the guys who I think are going.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
To be important to the team's success.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And let's face it, most of the guys who played
on Saturday Night will not be important to the stealers
success in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
It's just the way it goes.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
But I do think there were some guys that did
and I do think that there are some guys that
maybe gave you pause to think, Hey, do I you know,
do I have to reevaluate whether this person belongs on
the roster ahead of player acts. That's what I took
away general, Bicky, we can get into these specific players.
Did you take away something similar or something else?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah? No, I mean I took away from it. I
mean it was it was a very JV performance by guys.
You know, you're trying to put your best foot forward.
I felt like some guys stubbed their toe in the
process while putting their foot forward.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
But then then there was a lot of think. I
thought there was a good.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Number of guys that that gave you a little bit
of hope, that said, you know what, Hey, this dude
can play ball. And I think that's where it was.
I think it was up and down right the scales.
The scales were teetering back and forth throughout that contest.
It felt like, you know, you didn't you didn't get
a weight in one way or the other. There was
some good mixed with some bad, mix with some stupid
(05:48):
mix with some excellent and uh, and it's gonna be
a tough evaluation, I think for the middle of this roster.
But I think you're high end guys that you wanted
to see performed at a high end level. And I
think some of the guys that you expected to make
the next jump kind of jump backwards.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It does, So let's talk about some of the guys
that we think really helped themselves. And look, I don't
think there was any question Roman Wilson was going to
make this froster.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
No, I mean, there's no question at all. He's an
interesting case to me.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I think we've discussed this max on this program because
going into last season, because the students have had such
great success in getting receivers in the middle to ladder
portion to the draft, and it's a long list.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
We don't have to get into that list now. But
I think that, you know, I just did.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
The word that came to mind for me is like
blithely steeers fins, blithely just expected.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Oh well, you know, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Roman Wilson's gonna he's gonna be our slot receiver this year,
even though he's a third round pick, and even first
round picks are no guarantees.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
At the wide receiver position.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
There are quite a few guys who are busts who
were taken in the second or third round, quite a
few some even in the first round as well. So
I thought that was a little maybe presumptuous of Steelers
fans to instantly think, Hey, this guy's definitely gonna start
for us.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Then in the.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Flip of that is now this year, going into camp,
he seemed to be the forgotten man, like, Wow, the
Steelers need to add to the receiver depth, and they
still might and I understand that, but he became sort
of a forgotten man to me. I think he is
beginning to look more like the guys Steelers fans were
expecting to see last year.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Than anything else.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And I thought, again, he had a strong game and
showed the ability to get open and get open deep
and make plays.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
For this team.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I think you're absolutely right. I think you know.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Once again, another week, another game, Roman Wilson has an
explosive play, he pops off the screen. Now I thought
he was gonna get a couple more part return opportunities
in this contest did not shake out that way because
I think he did such great things and the offensive
side of the ball. But you know, I think Roman
(08:08):
is you know, he's showing the ability. I mean, Mason
Rudolph even talked about in his postgame presser about how
you know, he's just he's just so much more confident,
he's hungry, and his drive to the ball, you know,
it is just is so great from the time that
he Mason spent with him. Now, obviously Aaron will be
the one I would love to hear that from, but
(08:29):
Aaron's not playing in the preseason right now, so you know,
Mason is the deliverer of the football, so to speak.
But I think, you know, that rapport, that hunger. I
think he kind of feels the sense of urgency that
he should feel as a second year guy that did
not get to play in year one. And I think
he's understanding he you know, not necessarily like he's counting
(08:51):
the numbers in the room, but he feels that, hey,
one football, a lot of mouths defeat. What do I do?
Just make myself stand out and be special. I think
he's doing that and he's showing up and he's blocking
down field. You know, he's got that tenacity of a
smaller receiver that's trying to do more. And and I
(09:12):
like what I see from Roman. I think he I
think he made it. I think he's making nice progress.
I'm not gonna say he's making jumps, but he's making
nice progress along this. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
You know, Mike Tomlin gave him a lot of praise,
you know, so before the game, and this happened last
year too, before the before the preseason game, Mike Tomlin
addressed the media than Andy Widel addressed the media. Both
had very interesting things to say about a number of players.
And you know, Mike Tomlin is he has been Look,
(09:45):
he's never gonna be effusive, right, you know, he likes
to keep guys sort of. It seems to me, likes
to kind of keep in the lane. Let's not get
too far ahead of ourselves. But you know, he's had
some nice things to say about Roman Wilson and his
expectations for Roman Wilson.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
You know, he.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Says, you know, he works hard and he is making progress,
and I think that's you know, he showed up at
camp and he's a willing and hard worker, and I
think those are you know, those are nice things to
hear from your head coach. And so I think that,
you know, the expectation is that Roman Wilson. I think
the expectation is Calvin Austin is going to be the
(10:26):
starting outside receiver when he gets back out in the field.
We haven't been able to see him, and that Roman
Wilson has got an opportunity to perhaps be that number
three receiver for the team.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
No, I think that there's a great opportunity there.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And I think even even better than that, you know,
we also have other options that we still have not displayed.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
We still haven't seen you know, what John news Smith
looks like, right, or what's hot fire move looks like.
So I mean to know that that these might be
your three wide receivers. I think even so, there's so
many other options. We still haven't seen. Jalen Warren out there,
of course, DK Metcalf, I mean, that's that's unequivocal number one.
But but I think once you start putting those pieces together,
(11:11):
and I think Roman fits in nicely to what they're
trying to do. You know, you know, I don't know
how much the prevalence of eleven personnel.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Is going to be with the Steelers and Arthur Smith.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
But I think if you are in that position where
you are considering it, I think you know that that
you do feel comfortable with rolling out the three that
you have. But of course I'm sure they're gonna look
at adding something else. So then you know, if that's
the case, we'll figure out how you know that that
the top four figures out. But I mean, you look
at with Scotty Miller and you look at Vince Kronic.
(11:44):
Both of those guys are are very are very skilled,
very capable. Scotty Miller definitely had some moves in the
game that says, okay, he can do more than just
special teams, you know. And I think when you think
about that, okay, you guys, you will have some tough decisions.
I think they'll keep you know, anywhere from five to
six receivers. How that shakes out if still, you know,
(12:07):
you have to feel good if you're Roman Wilson, you
have to feel good if you're Scottie Miller. And the
current setup of everything, of course DK and col won't
have to think about those things. But then you know,
what does five and six look like? You know, how
do you shape that out with your ride receiving corps uh,
because some guys I thought that also took some steaces.
I thought Brandon Johnson was still solid once again, especially
(12:28):
on the touchdown grab. So what do you do with
a Brandon Johnson? I mean, he was on the practice
squad a year ago and he's been in this system.
Good strong hands, makes a great decision and also was
in on the special teams game. Remember we talked about,
caught a touchdown then then made a tackle right after that.
Those are things that are very attractive when you can
be multi purpose type of guys. You know, Max Hurlman,
(12:51):
you know, had a great game one kind of was
mid in the in the in this second game, right,
had some catches, kind of missed a couple of throws,
you know, was in there and around the football. Didn't
quite make the impact tackles that you that you would
like to see in special teams. But he does have
that capability. He can tackle and he can't catch balls.
(13:13):
So what do you do with the Max Hurlman type
of guy?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Do you do?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
You consider him a corps for and a wide receiver.
Do you consider him a more defensive.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Guy that also plays specials.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
He's a very interesting character that you kind of throw
into that mix as well. And so I really like
the problems that we have because I think there's a
lot of good. I mean, I haven't seen a lot
of you know, there's there's some great moments. I think
with Roman, there's been some great moments, you know, But
there's been a lot of good. But it's good, gonna
be good enough when it comes down to the final
cutdown here.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, it is, Uh, it is fascinating. And I do
think you know, you and I have talked about this,
like and we'll get more into the roster in just
a moment, but I do want to underscore what you
just said. People have to remember no Johnny Smith, no
DK Metcalf. If you tell me right now, and know
Pat Fryarmuth right, if you tell me right now. Hey,
(14:05):
who do you think are going to be the top
three receivers for the Steelers this year? Well we just
named him. I think Metcalf is going to be first.
And I think it's going to be interesting whether it's
John OUs Smith or Pat Fryarmouth who's going to be
second or third. You're playing these games without your top
three guys. It'll be very interesting to see how much
Jalen Warren is utilized in the passing game when when
(14:29):
we get Aaron Rodgers out there, and whether Gainwell will
be a bigger part of that. So we're not seeing
a lot of passes to the running backs right now,
is that going to be a bigger part of this offense?
We might be looking at, you know, Gainwell being our
I'm just you know, throwing it out there for argument's sake.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
He might be the fourth leading receiver on this team
right so.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Now, yeah, now you know you're you're sort of getting
down the roster here. But that's why I think it's
so important to show what you can do. And I
think Roman Wilson, you know, Mike Tomlins said, you can
tell it's his second year. You know, he's uh, he's
hard working, he's available. You can tell it's his second year.
If you're a player, if you're Roman Wilson, that's what
(15:12):
you want to hear from your head coach. You want
to hear things like that, and you want to have
the ability to, you know, in this first year for him,
this first year on the field. To me, you know,
there's there's building blocks you put in place, right, Like, Okay,
am I part of the rotation?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Right? Great? Now? Can be?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Can I be a bigger part of the rotation? Can
I be a guy that's leaned on more? When we're
sending two receivers out there? Am I the second receiver?
Or am I waiting for three receiver sets?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Can I?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Can I be a bigger factor in the offense? All
those things come into play. The first thing you want
to do is make sure you're healthy, you're available, and
you're getting a helmet on game day.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, I mean, and you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I mean that's availability is one of the best abilities.
We won't say it's the best ability, right, I mean,
we've had that discussion, but it is is it is
a prerequisite for activity, right. You got to be available
to actually participate. If you if you're injured or you're
not or you're not physically there, then we're gonna have
a little bit of a problem. Right. But I think
(16:15):
if you can get to that point, I think that's
that's what we're all looking for. We're all looking for
an opportunity to see if guys can compete. That's gonna
be the first thing, right. You know, we always heard
the old ads you can't make the club and the tub,
and I think that that applies to the availability and
the health of guys, you know, because like you said,
you got some guys are nicked up. You got some
(16:35):
guys trying to trying to fight through some things. And
the question is are you hurt or are you injured?
You know, because hurt you could play through. It's injured
you have to stop. And so knowing what those determinants
are as we get into this final preseason game, is
gonna be upon us really quickly. I mean we're talking
about three days from now, we're gonna be playing a
rather game. So how fast can you recover on the
(16:56):
short week? Because guess what, end season, it's gonna be
the same exact way, and so might it might be
even shorter.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, And if we look at the receiver position, I
don't know what's going on with Calvin Austin. The team
hasn't disclosed. They don't have to in the preseason. You know,
let's hope he's going to be out there. And you're
right about you know, Roman Wilson can return punts. Look,
they get they're giving. When we talk about the receiving spot,
they gave Keishawn Williams all the return opportunities, right, he
(17:22):
was the guy out there on punt return and there
were a lot of punts, so he got his opportunity there.
And each one of these receivers brings a little something different,
you know, Rock Taylor brings something different to the table.
Keishawn Williams brings something different. McCutcheon brings something different to
me in the in Hurlerman. We saw him That Hurlerman,
(17:42):
like you said, stood out in Game one. He's an
interesting story in that you know, he played at Colgate
and he plays defensive back and he you know, he
plays receiver and he plays a bunch of different positions,
and you know, he's more of a you know, I
don't know, I don't know how to describe his abilities,
but he's.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
He's got utility.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
He's a utility guy with some talent, and you know,
is he, you know, potentially a practice squad type of guy.
But when I look at the receivers, they and we'll
just kind of finish the receiver section off now before
we move on to other positions. From what we saw.
I thought Brandon Johnson for the reasons you mentioned, was
(18:22):
a guy that stood out. I mean, here's a guy
who's who's got some he's got some pedigree in the NFL.
You know, this isn't his first rodeo H Kenny contribute
on special teams, and I think that you know, it's
it's We've talked about this a little bit before, but
the depth of the roster to me, is in such
(18:42):
good shape that you feel so good about, say your
sixth defensive lineman just as an example, your your.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Fourth, uh inside linebacker.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
You know, positions where a lot of teams, you know,
even if they have good starters, are sort of traditionally
looking around and oh man, what.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Do we have there?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I just wonder, you know, how much of it is
gonna come down to special teams like as a as
a maybe even a larger factor perhaps than in years past.
I think what's happening is your sixth wide receiver is
battling your six inside linebacker is battling your eighth you know,
cornerback or whatever.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
For a spot on the roster.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
You know, you're I think, like you said, there's pretty
clearly five wide receivers.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Right, if you talk about you know, DK Metcalf.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Calvin, Austin, Roman, Wilson, Ben's Kronick, Scotty Miller, those guys
seem to have some separation there. If you're gonna keep
a sixth receiver, it's because you're not gonna keep you know,
a seventh or sixth or whatever cornerback or a or
a sixth inside linebacker.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
That's why you're gonna keep one.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
So you have to beat out all the other guys
in your position group or show a different side with
all the other guys in your position group, and then
your your move onto a special category where you're battling
other guys and other positions to show that you're worthy
of being on the team.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
If in fact we're right about those five wide receivers.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I think that that's that's gonna be the big question,
you know, because also you have to realize, you know,
the team, after this last game, you're gonna be also scouring, you.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Know, to see what do we have out there?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Right? What else is out there from these other teams?
And I think that's where you have to be very mindful,
is that you're also battling, you know, fifty four through
ninety on thirty one other teams, Right, is what we
have better than what we can go out there and
get in the market, and so you know, and also
(20:46):
vice versa. Right, you know, Hey, maybe maybe what I
did wasn't good enough here, but maybe it's good enough elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Not everybody has all.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Of their wide receivers set up, and they maybe still
need a guy who could play special teams but also
play wide receiver. You know, you have you have a
lot of those questions out there as well. So what
are the other teams seeing? Like I think a lot
of teams are looking, say, hey, I like what Brandon
Johnson did. I'm counting their room, you know, And you know,
maybe Keishawan Williams maybe, hey, maybe we're not really settled
(21:13):
at who we got at punt returner right now, but
you know, Keishawn Williams fits into into that type of category.
Or you know, what does a guy you know on
the edge outside or inside backer. We need another one
of those. Maybe there's one here. I mean, there's so
many different ways you can make That's why it's always
important in these preseason games. You always put your best
foot forward. Yeah, because you know you're auditioning for all
(21:36):
thirty two teams every time you step into a stadium,
for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And let me ask you this one other thing before
we go to break, because we have some other position
to valueate other guys to get to, because there were
some other players who stood out. And I don't suppose
there's one hundred percent hard and fast rule.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So let's say you're you're taking a class in high
school and you know a teacher will say, okay, then
midterm is, you know, thirty percent of your grades, The
quizzes are thirty percent of your grades, and your final
exam is forty percent of your grades. Right, So that's
how they're going to figure out what your grades are
for the year. Well, we have you know, what did
(22:16):
the scouts say, why are you here? That's got to
be part of the grade. What have we seen from
you in mini camp and OTAs? That's got to be
part of the grade. What have we seen from you
every day in practice and in you know meetings and
did you show up on time where you alert? You know,
(22:36):
did that then you know spill out over onto the
practice field and you showed those things and you showed
the acumen to pick things up. What part of that
is weighted on the games? I mean there's a there's
I'm sure probably your recency bias, right, but there's also
a there's also a game bias, like it's okay to
look good in shorts in May, but we want you
(22:57):
to look good in pads in September. That's why you're here.
So how much do you think these games? And it's
a little different, I'm sure for everybody there's no set
rule where hey, this is fifty percent of your final grade.
But you know, how heavily do you think these preseason
games and this last one will be weighted in determining
whether a player makes the roster?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I think I think I think that it's a cumulative effect, right,
It's kind of like what's your body of work been?
And you know when I talked about this, you know
when I said, you know, this journey is more like
mile markers than milestones as you kind of progress through
the through through this training camp and preseason process. So
I think it's you know, I think I think it's
(23:40):
a culmination. It's what did you do in practice every day?
What do the coaches have to tell you did you
clean those things up? Did you make the same mistakes twice?
And then when we get to the stadium, how well
do you adapt on the fly? And then if your
role increases or decreases, how do you handle that opportunity
as it presents itself. And then you kind of make
(24:01):
your way through and you kind of keep little check
marks along the way about what they're doing. You want
to see if there is a setback, right, you know,
in a game, how do you rebound back to the
next game? You know, what do you take the information
in the classroom and can you practically apply it on
the field the next outing? Those are the things I
think is more so than kind of like you said,
(24:22):
the chunks. I think that you know, from what I
understand about the Steelers process, they want to see a
culmination like can the can this guy be a stealer
at the end of the day? Can you be a stealer?
And what does that mean? What is it?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
How is that defined?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Well, it's mental toughness, it's grit, it's determination, and you know,
it's finding a solution when it seems like it's unlikely
right in the midst of chaos, Like how can you
how can you problem solve on the fly? I think
I think that's what you're kind of looking for, because
you know, one guy could look great in practice because
(24:57):
he has a beat. He plays against the guy every
day since training camp start, right, he got sixteen practices
against this dude. It looks great. But then you get it.
Then you get out there in the game and play
against a new opponent, and now you don't know what
to do, right, You're just you're just throwing anything to
see if it sticks or did you study and can
you go out there and exploit that guy just like
you did the guy in practice. Like that's what they
(25:17):
want to see and that's what you want to That's
what you're trying to get to know about these guys
in a very finite, very accelerated fashion because unlike college,
unlike like, you don't have a whole year to kind
of grow into a position, right, you got to hit
it now and make sure you stand out enough that
you could be counted as one of fifty three or
one of the sixteen practice squad guys, and then can
(25:40):
you earn the helmet on game day? He'd be one
of the top forty six potentially by your actions. That's
what they're looking at, like, can this guy if one
guy goes down, is this guy ready to go in
and take his place? You know, Mike Dillan never talks
about we don't have backups. We have starters in waiting.
That's what the depth chart looks like, a starter, starter
in waiting, and then we go from there. So can
(26:01):
you be a starter in waiting? Do you have enough gumption?
Do you have enough skill? Do you have enough knowledge
in your head or the ability to figure it out
to make sure that you can make it to the
next level? And can you thrive and not just survive
at the next level?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
All right, So there's still much to get to in
this preseason game, and much to get to as far
as getting you ready for the next game, because I
think we only have two shows, right, we have two
shows to wrap up day and tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
We have grown to cover Max.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
We do a lot of ground little time, all.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Right, So we're gonna begin to cover more of that
ground when we continue inside the Locker Room with King
and Starks presented by your neighborhood Ford store Man. Welcome
back inside the locker Room. If King and Starks presented
by your neighborhood Ford Store. Here on the Steelers audio network,
(26:54):
we are giving you coast to coast coverage. You like that, Max,
or should I drop?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You know it has a good ring to it.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
It sounds impressive, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yes, it sounds like we are we are we are
multitasking at its finest. We got it.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So we just went over the wide receiver situation for
the Steelers, and I do think it's gonna be interesting
to see if they keep a sixth receiver. And if
they keep a six receiver, you know what other position
is going to be, you know, victimized or whatever however
you want to go, you know, minus a player. So
(27:32):
and just to wrap up that position. And again we
talk about recency bias. Right now for me, uh, that
guy's rock tailor possibly you know, at the end of
practice and you know, training camp, it might have been
Keyshawn Williams and I see him back there returning punts
after last week last week's game, it might have been
Max Harlaman. So, uh, my my guy right now is
(27:53):
Brandon Johnson, Say, Rocktail, I've met Brandon gent My guy
right now is Brandon Johnson because he caught a touchdown
pass and made some tack on special teams.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, I mean I think I think you you're not
wrong on that.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
And he's a guy that I've kind of had peg
since training camp, right, you knows, a guy who's done
some really good things. Strong hands, combat catches so to speak,
you know, catches in traffic. He's shown the ability to
be a hand catcher in those moments, you know. And
I think you know, when you see a guy flash
(28:26):
for a touchdown and then flash on special teams right
after that, you know, it gives you a multifaceted approach, right,
And I think that's how he kind of felt about
Max Hrlman on that two minute drive, you know, him
having some big plays in it to get to the
end zone and of course in on special teams. So
it's it's going to be up and down on recency bias,
(28:46):
and I think that's why you kind of take that
cumulative approach when you look at these guys, and you know,
Rock Taylor had some opportunities in this game to flash.
I think he I think he showed. I think he
showed some things, but you know, is that enough? You know,
Max Hrlaman, did you take enough of a step forward
based on what the coaches asked of you to do.
(29:11):
That's gonna be the next question. So I look at
that and I say that, you know, that's six wide
receiver spot. Is it on this roster or is it?
Or is it elsewhere? And I think that's what you
have to kind of answer. And I think right now,
if I was slotting, I would probably slot Brandon Johnson
in that sixth hole right now as we speak.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
So and I do think again, just to wrap this up,
just this part of it, because you know, when we
come back next week, we're gonna be what a day
or two away from cutdown and it cut down. We'll
cut down this twenty six. That's Tuesday, I think, So
we'll have a couple of days to discuss this further.
But you know, it's, uh, it's gonna be interesting how
(29:49):
they view the wide receiver position and how you know,
do this tous have a punter to trade? For example,
you know they've got two punters. I don't know is
they're gonna keeping both. Is there another team out there saying, well, listen,
what they got is better than what we have.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
We have an excess at somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Although I suspect that I don't know is this Steelers
would be in the market for excess off somebody else.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I think they've got plenty of excess on their own roster.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, maybe, I don't know, is there a position
maybe offensive line where you know, maybe an extra body
to come in and compete might be good.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
It's such a deep.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Roster, Max, I mean, there's I just think there's a
lot of talent at a lot of different positions.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, I think I think you're always looking at the
offensive line position. I think you know, you got you
got a question. You know, how long is Calvin Calvin
Anderson going to be out as heesars injury? I think also,
you know, uh, Gareth Warren, the young rookie from lynden Wood,
he kind of got banged up on that interception at
the end of the game, trying to get the foot
(30:53):
of the fumble and trying to get it. You know
that that's that's another question. You know. Steven Jonesy's enough
that you liked from him. He had a couple of
he had a couple of hiccups as well. Dylan Cook.
You know, where's Dylan Cook stand in all of this?
As a swing guy for you. You know, Andrews, Pete
Todd tried tested in true former Pro Bowl veteran that
(31:16):
can play guard and tackle. You know, once he gets
further into shape, I mean, he's still to remember this,
dude's still only like nine days in you know, to
training camp. Off the couch. You see some of the
flashes of Andres and you're like, okay, this is why
ap was was one of those was one of those
top guys for the Saints for a very long time.
(31:37):
You know. Unfortunate situation I think for him in Vegas
with a regime change, that probably prompted his availability because
I think he did some good things, started a couple
of games for the Raiders to end the season.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
But you know, with Pete.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Carroll coming in, maybe that that did just he wasn't
one of Pete's guys, so he kind of was an
odd man out in that situation. But we'll see how
he does, and you know, he'll have a short around
week to see if he can get back into action
and see if he can prove himself. So, I mean,
there's a lot of depth there, but you're always looking.
You're always gonna wonder, right, there's always a question mark
out there. But is there enough here? Is there enough
(32:11):
here to say, hey we can fight with just this.
I'm good with going into battle with that. I think
another place, you know, like you said, wide receiver we
just talked about, you know, you know for the first
you know, segment and a half here. You know, is
that wide receiver on this roster that's gonna be six
or in or I should say in the six mix.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Let's put it that way, six mix?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Is that guy here? You know, I look at a
lot of other positions. I say, I don't think we
need to go elsewhere, but I think if you're looking
at it, you know, you're gonna look at offensive line,
You're gonna you're gonna look at You're gonna wonder about
defensive line always because those are the highest concentration of
players on your team, are on both of your line sides.
And you know, I think you're I think you're great
in your set at at the defensive back position. I
(32:54):
think you have a lot of quality, depth and guys
that you can depend on in the lineback and position.
You know, the question is gonna be Cole Holkum. You know,
what do you do with Cole Hulkum, What do you
do with Carson Brunner, You know, because both of them
are highly adepted not only making plays and Cole Hulkom
made some plays all over the place at linebacker, but
also was playing special teams. Carson bruner the same thing,
(33:16):
you know, he was He was making some splash plays
in the special teams a week ago, showed up again
and was making some plays also defensively this week. So
you know, when you kind of go through the exercise
of it all, it's like, man, we do have some
good excess, you know, can you can you can you
stash a jj gallbreath, you know at the tight end
position because you kind of feel good about your top four.
(33:38):
I mean Connor Hayward, Darnel Washington, Pat Friarmouth and John
news Smith. You feel good about four tight ends, you know,
but where do you where do you have him him?
Kevin Folish you brought back as well to kind of
play some tight end stuff. I'm gonna be interested to
see how that running back room especially shapes out right.
I mean, we talked, you know, we we know who
(34:00):
Jalen Warren is. He's sitting out. He's one of those
guys designated guys, but you know can gain well, like
you said, brings a pedigree, brings a skill set at
the running back position. Also Trey Sermon as well. You know,
he has to low Nichols is the one where I'm like, man,
he keeps flashing King, Okay, he keeps flashing.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So we wanted to talk about the run, you know,
I think we wanted to get into the running back
position and your thoughts on Caleb Johnson. So my premise
at the beginning of the show was that, you know,
the guys that are going to be, you know, part
of the rotation, part of the guys that we expect
to see playing every Sunday or project to be guys
(34:42):
that are playing every Sunday. Roman Wilson is won, Caleb
Johnson's another. We'll get to the defensive side of the
ball later. But what did you think of what you
saw from Caleb Johnson.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You know, I'm seeing growth from Caleb. You know, I'm
seeing him learn and figure things out and learn from
his mistakes. And early on I felt like he was
too quick and I even talked about this during the broadcast.
I felt like he was too quick on his reads.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
He wasn't.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
He wasn't setting up the blocks to help his O line,
you know, be successful for him. And I think he
kind of he kind of took that lesson, kind of
ran with it from the first half to the second half. Now,
where my concern is is that as the game progresses,
obviously the quality of talent goes down, right, you know,
as we as we get through these preseason games. And
(35:32):
he did it against the lesser talent. He made the adjustment.
And listen, I get it. I get it. For everybody
out there, you know, you could only you know, you
can only play against who's out there and you go
from there. But I say that and say that you
had the opportunity early to really show us, you know,
(35:56):
what you could do against top more top tier talent.
I'm gonna put it like that, because it's not all
the way top tier. I mean, they didn't have everybody
out there, but they I mean they did have Vita
Vea out there running and chasing Mason Rudolph and giving
him a headache. And he is an exceptional human being.
But at the same time, that's what I want to see.
(36:17):
I want to see, how do you do against the
top tier talent, and I thought the starting over line
had their moments as well. They're still growing as a unit,
trying to trying to figure out, you know, what the
role looks like for all of them in that room.
But I liked what I saw, and I thought Caleb
got better as the game went on. I thought, I
(36:37):
thought he developed some nice some nice traits the patients,
all the things you expect to see from your rookie
running back. He's learning and growing and he's taking a
database of what's happening with all these players around him,
and I think he's adapting to that. So I believe
he's on track. I think that's the best way of
saying he's on track to be a guy for us.
(37:00):
But at the end of the day, you know, we
want to see how that vision continues to grow, because
right now, you know, I say, you know, Kenneth Gainwell
looks to be You're you're still one of your lead dogs.
And I think for Caleb, you know, he's developing into
the workhorse. He's showing that he can take multiple snaps
back to back and get into it. So I like
(37:21):
where he's at. He's still a rookie in my mind.
As far as his progression. So I'm still waiting to
see those moments at the beginning of games where he
can just just change you know, the entire scope of
what you're looking at with explosive plays. But I do
like where he's flashing for the most part.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, and again, you know, it is so difficult to
parse out, you know, a player from the action. So
I understand what you're saying, like do this against the ones,
But also you don't have your ones out there, right,
You don't have the threat of DK Metcalf on the outside.
You don't have John Smith in the in the U
(38:03):
H back position at the slot position, who's a threat
to you know, to throw the ball to. But it
is also going to help you, you know, in the
blocking game too.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
You know, so I understand what you're saying, you want
to see success ones against ones, but you know it's again,
this is where I think scouting in any sport is
I'm in awe of scouts and good ones that can
that can pick this out and say this is why
this guy is gonna be good because there's just a
lot of factors.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, No, there's there's a lot of things that go
into it, and that's why, you know, I hasten how
I'm grading with my eye, and that's why I'm trying
to trying to make it, as I guess, as objective
as possible. I think it's the best way of saying
that as objective as possible with not saying, well, he
didn't do it against the ones, so he so he
(38:50):
must be garbage.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
No, no, no, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
You know, I'm not gonna go down that route and
not gonna, you know, put that undue stress upon him.
But what I will say is is you're showing the
right progress, you know, But always I'm always asked, I
need more because there's limited opportunities to make these decisions
and how much can I trust you?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
That's gonna be the key thing.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Now. I felt like he did make some progress and
he learned from from from some of those mistakes that
he had at the beginning of the year. Uh. Well,
I say, at the first preseason game, I felt like
he's definitely done what he was supposed to do. And
I think when when you have that type of progress,
you have to feel good about it. And so I
(39:34):
think that's where I'm like, I'm not going to be
as tough because I think he is making the progress
that we want to see for a young guy coming
in and having to assume this larger role within a
team right out the gates, you know. But once again
I hasten it and I say, he still got to learn.
(39:55):
You know that Iowa vision is not going to be
Steeler vision when it comes to it, running it running
in the backfield. I think that's the best. I think
that's that's that's the most polite and easiest way to
say that, right. But he but he is making some
great progress. I mean I felt really good, especially late
in the game. He was it. He put us in
positions to where we could be successful, and that's all
you can ask for, right you know, you can only
(40:17):
play against the guys that are in front of you,
and so he did that. So check you know what
I'm saying. On the on the on the mile marker.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Check.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
He he is doing those things. He's flashy, hand explosive
play in this game. But once again I just say, hey,
him versus the field, right, you know, how are you
going to earn your reps in season? Because guess what
is only gonna be ones? You know, And a couple
of a couple of alternates that come in there, And
how are you going to do when it gets into
(40:46):
game time? And you know, Quinn Williams is not just
taking the first ten reps of the game, He's playing
the whole game. That's right. You know, you get you
get to New York on Sunday. How are you going
to escape that big body? Right? You know, how are
you gonna how are you going to distinguish yourself?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So you know, I love the progress.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I'm not gonna sit here and try and poop poo
on that at all, not not by any stretch.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
But I gotta say, give me more.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Come along a little bit faster, be a little bit cleaner,
may be a little bit more patient. Don't be so
quick to bust to the outside and think you can
outrun guys, because you can't at this level. I mean,
it showed that even a dB James Parrish, right, a
dB will hit you in the mouth. And you know,
where's a college you might you might get a business
decision as a as an Antonio Cromarty once coined the phrase,
(41:31):
you know, there's no business decisions. The business is the
is the business, and that's it. It's like I need
you to get down so I can continue to eat,
So you know, being smarter about that setting up your
blocks a little bit more before you make that cutback,
because I thought there was some really nice lanes that
the O line created that just kind of got negated,
you know, in the progress and in the scheme structure
of what they were trying to run on certain plays.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
He is Max Starks. I'm rob King.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You're inside the locker room with King and Starks, presented
by your neighborhood Ford Store here on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Welcome back inside the locker room.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Was kinging starts for was enter oury neighborhood for here
in the Steelers Audio Network, we're talking running backs.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Max, I want to hear your thoughts on Lou Nichols.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Man.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
I love when Lou Nichols, you know, provided in this game.
You know, that thirty seven yard explosive was just a
thing of beauty and when you can have that type
of ferocity when you run the football and I know
he only carried the ball three times, you know, and
and came up with a total of forty two yards
(42:42):
with that thirty seven yard are in there, but you
know it does pop when you have a thirty seven
yard out in that type of game. So I look
at that. He also had a nice catch out of
the backfield a six yard gain on a little swing route.
So I mean, he just he does some things where
I'm just like, Okay, okay, this guy. Know he's a
late adding camp, but man, he brings a pop. He
(43:04):
brings a certain hustle level to what you know you
want to see, you feel, you feel the sense of urgency,
and every time he runs the football.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
I totally agree, totally agree.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
And I think we saw that he was a seventh
round pick of Green Bay a couple of years ago,
so he's got a little bit of a pedigree. At
least a guy was drafted, although again we've seen guys
like Willie Parker was in the Steerers Hall of Honor
be undrafted. When I think from the very first time
(43:37):
we saw him, we were, you know, watching practice Chuck
Noles Stadium, perched atop the field there, uh from our
our broadcast layer and from his very first practice. Wait,
who's thirty five?
Speaker 3 (43:53):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Quinndel Johnson? Cameron McCutcheon has been released. Okay, what do
we got here? Look at who is this guy? And
and even from the very first time he touched the ball,
from the very first time he tried to block somebody,
he has had a sense of energy and purpose. You
mentioned the explosive run, but that catch, I mean you
(44:14):
talk about business decisions and guys making him.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
That catch impressed.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Me because it was out in front of him, in
that that little area where there's a something going on
in the back of your mind that tells you I
might get slaughter here, you know, Yeah, maybe that's a
maybe it's a high pass over the middle or a
ball you have once you have to extend yourself, you're
(44:40):
leaving yourself in a very very vulnerable position.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
And that pass led him and he was in a
bone man.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
He went and got it like he's gotten everything else,
with aggression and purpose and like importance, you know, like, hey,
this is important that I catched this ball and he did.
It's a six yard I think it was a six
yard completion, Max. But again, it spoke to me of
of his sense of urgency.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
No, you're absolutely right, and I think that's what you
want to see, right. You want to see guys who
where it matters to them, It matters how you go
about your business? Where is your strain so to speak? Sorry,
sorry about that, yeah, no, uh. And I think that
(45:29):
was one of the things that really impressed me about
him is that the strain was like, Hey, I don't
care if this.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Is a hospital ball.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
We call the hospital balls, right when you set a
guy out there, you know, the Jayleen McMillan, right, that
catch he made that Uh that that Teddy Bridgewater kind
of hung him out there a little bit, a little
high at Darryl Prale kind of came underneath him.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
That was that that that was a hospital ball.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
You know, when you have those potential conflict catches that
you have to make, are you willing to fully the
extend or you're gonna get alligator arms right right? You know,
like whoa, hey, listen, I'm not trying to get smoked
right now, that's what you want to see.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
And I thought he accomplished that really well.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
And like you said, everything that he did he did
with high, high urgency, high speed, and he didn't care
if he was gonna make a mistake. He was gonna
make the mistake going one hundred miles an hour, right
for sure.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
I think he stuck out and has stuck out for
all of us. But again, if you're going to keep
a fourth running back, we know you're gonna keep three,
right if everybody's healthy. We know you're keeping Jailing warn
we know you're keeping Kenneth Game. Well, we know you're
keeping Caleb Johnson. Now, you know, is it Hull, is
it Sermon? Is it Nickels? You know there's a lot
(46:43):
of competition there for that last running back spot, if
in fact you're going to keep for That's why we
keep saying the fourth running back. Okay, you got to
separate yourself from the other guys and be that first
guy standing. But it's you know, it's like a spelling bee. Man,
you're all gonna be out in front of the class,
right and there's only gonna be you had eight guys
(47:04):
trying to answer questions for four spots or whatever.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
It's gonna be so.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Definitely gonna be some interesting decisions made. We have to
make the decision to go to a break, which we're
gonna do now. But we have plenty more to talk about.
We have not touched on the defensive side of the ball.
There was one guy I thought stuck out would love
to hear what Max thought about this particular player, whom
we will discuss when we continue inside the locker room
with King and Starks, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
Here on this steel, there's audio network.
Hello and welcome inside the locker room with the King
and Starks, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store. Here on
this tip is Audio Network alongside Max Starks. I'm Rob
King Justin Miller with the controls. Happy to have him
with us. And Max, how are you, my friend?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm doing good, King, heer.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It is uh, it's nice not to be in a
dorm room on the road, you know, it's it's good
to be home. I mean it's been a minute since
I was home. So happy to see the family and
then get back into the.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Swing of things here.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
But look forward, you know, to getting back to uh,
you know, to you guys on on Thursday when we
take on the Panthers. So a little short week home,
but but well deserved, well earned.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Were you able to get a little celebration with Quincy
who turned at getting on Saturday night?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Well, yes, yep, on Saturday, yeah, yesterday. You know when
I got in, I mean we hit the ground running.
We went, we got breakfast, we had we had birthday
breakfast together and then we went to this place, Kinger
and you know your kids have now you're now out
of this age range where you have to do the
physically strenuous activities, you know, for their pleasure in your burden.
(01:29):
We went to this place called Activate and I will
just say this. I thought I was in shape. I
am not in shape. I am not in activate shape.
And this is so the concept of this place is
you could pick thirty sixty or ninety minutes. Of course
my child picked the ninety minutes, right, you know, more fun,
more time.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yay.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
We get in there and we've never done. They give
you this. They give you one of those little RFID
like kind of wristbands put on your wrists. You scan
in and stuff and it will give you points and
everything as you go complete these tests. It's thirteen different
rooms and you can go you wait in line. There's
all these different games associated with each room. So you
could have one that's like shooting basketball hoops you know
(02:14):
as a team or you know as as as competitive
like head to head, and you got one. It's like
this humongous like light wall that's like almost two hundred and.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Seventy degrees around, and you know, there's there's.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
This laser laser mazes. There's there's these throwing things where
you have to throw like at asteroids to you know
they're coming at you, and the word search is like
all this stuff. It's like physical activity in each room.
Each like session that you do in a room lasts
about a minute to a minute and a half. So
now this is literally like interval training or circuit training.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Then and you get to pay for the pleasure of
doing this.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
You get to play for the pleasure of ninety minutes
of pain. Can I tell you my back locked up
At one point as we were going underneath these lasers,
I just started I just started.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
A barrel rolling down on the ground.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I think I almost sprained my ankle trying to play
this hopscotch thing with the laser with my daughter. It
was but it well, you know what, but it was fun.
But it was the ninety minutes that got me. It
was like ninety minutes and you're just going from room
to room to room to room and we've never done
it before. And there's like maybe there's like maybe five
(03:24):
to seven game options in each at each room. So
if you want to switch again, you got to step
out the room, reprogram it, scan in, and then go
back in and you're all what and all the while
you're collecting points along with it. But it was fun. So
we did that for a birthday and she she had
she had a blast. Good.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I'm glad of that. It sounds like fun.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
And yes, I've graduated to the to the roll out
of the car and go to a wine tasting.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
That's kind of exactly, see exactly exactly wine tasting. Or
you can go to a bar and just hang out,
have a nice quiet dinner, you know, yeah, nothing, Yeah,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So but you know what enjoy as every as every
parent knows, every age is an epic, every page is
its own, its own chapter, and then at some point,
you know, there's just like one long chapter called the
rest of your life. So so enjoy it. I'm sure
you are. It sounds like you did. Did you enjoy
(04:23):
Saturday Night? It kind of a I don't know if
it was the crispest, cleanest game I've ever seen. You know,
I was asked about it this morning on DVE and
what I thought about it. I think that the thing
I was going to take out of it, Max is
that some of the guys who I think are going.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
To be important to the team's success.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And let's face it, most of the guys who played
on Saturday Night will not be important to the stealers
success in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
It's just the way it goes.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
But I do think there were some guys that did
and I do think that there are some guys that
maybe gave you pause to think, Hey, do I you know,
do I have to reevaluate whether this person belongs on
the roster ahead of player acts. That's what I took
away general, Bicky, we can get into these specific players.
Did you take away something similar or something else?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah? No, I mean I took away from it. I
mean it was it was a very JV performance by guys.
You know, you're trying to put your best foot forward.
I felt like some guys stubbed their toe in the
process while putting their foot forward.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
But then then there was a lot of think. I
thought there was a good.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Number of guys that that gave you a little bit
of hope, that said, you know what, Hey, this dude
can play ball. And I think that's where it was.
I think it was up and down right the scales.
The scales were teetering back and forth throughout that contest.
It felt like, you know, you didn't you didn't get
a weight in one way or the other. There was
some good mixed with some bad, mix with some stupid
(05:48):
mix with some excellent and uh, and it's gonna be
a tough evaluation, I think for the middle of this roster.
But I think you're high end guys that you wanted
to see performed at a high end level. And I
think some of the guys that you expected to make
the next jump kind of jump backwards.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It does, So let's talk about some of the guys
that we think really helped themselves. And look, I don't
think there was any question Roman Wilson was going to
make this froster.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
No, I mean, there's no question at all. He's an
interesting case to me.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I think we've discussed this max on this program because
going into last season, because the students have had such
great success in getting receivers in the middle to ladder
portion to the draft, and it's a long list.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
We don't have to get into that list now. But
I think that, you know, I just did.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
The word that came to mind for me is like
blithely steeers fins, blithely just expected.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Oh well, you know, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Roman Wilson's gonna he's gonna be our slot receiver this year,
even though he's a third round pick, and even first
round picks are no guarantees.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
At the wide receiver position.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
There are quite a few guys who are busts who
were taken in the second or third round, quite a
few some even in the first round as well. So
I thought that was a little maybe presumptuous of Steelers
fans to instantly think, Hey, this guy's definitely gonna start
for us.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Then in the.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Flip of that is now this year, going into camp,
he seemed to be the forgotten man, like, Wow, the
Steelers need to add to the receiver depth, and they
still might and I understand that, but he became sort
of a forgotten man to me. I think he is
beginning to look more like the guys Steelers fans were
expecting to see last year.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Than anything else.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And I thought, again, he had a strong game and
showed the ability to get open and get open deep
and make plays.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
For this team.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I think you're absolutely right. I think you know.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Once again, another week, another game, Roman Wilson has an
explosive play, he pops off the screen. Now I thought
he was gonna get a couple more part return opportunities
in this contest did not shake out that way because
I think he did such great things and the offensive
side of the ball. But you know, I think Roman
(08:08):
is you know, he's showing the ability. I mean, Mason
Rudolph even talked about in his postgame presser about how
you know, he's just he's just so much more confident,
he's hungry, and his drive to the ball, you know,
it is just is so great from the time that
he Mason spent with him. Now, obviously Aaron will be
the one I would love to hear that from, but
(08:29):
Aaron's not playing in the preseason right now, so you know,
Mason is the deliverer of the football, so to speak.
But I think, you know, that rapport, that hunger. I
think he kind of feels the sense of urgency that
he should feel as a second year guy that did
not get to play in year one. And I think
he's understanding he you know, not necessarily like he's counting
(08:51):
the numbers in the room, but he feels that, hey,
one football, a lot of mouths defeat. What do I do?
Just make myself stand out and be special. I think
he's doing that and he's showing up and he's blocking
down field. You know, he's got that tenacity of a
smaller receiver that's trying to do more. And and I
(09:12):
like what I see from Roman. I think he I
think he made it. I think he's making nice progress.
I'm not gonna say he's making jumps, but he's making
nice progress along this. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
You know, Mike Tomlin gave him a lot of praise,
you know, so before the game, and this happened last
year too, before the before the preseason game, Mike Tomlin
addressed the media than Andy Widel addressed the media. Both
had very interesting things to say about a number of players.
And you know, Mike Tomlin is he has been Look,
(09:45):
he's never gonna be effusive, right, you know, he likes
to keep guys sort of. It seems to me, likes
to kind of keep in the lane. Let's not get
too far ahead of ourselves. But you know, he's had
some nice things to say about Roman Wilson and his
expectations for Roman Wilson.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
You know, he.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Says, you know, he works hard and he is making progress,
and I think that's you know, he showed up at
camp and he's a willing and hard worker, and I
think those are you know, those are nice things to
hear from your head coach. And so I think that,
you know, the expectation is that Roman Wilson. I think
the expectation is Calvin Austin is going to be the
(10:26):
starting outside receiver when he gets back out in the field.
We haven't been able to see him, and that Roman
Wilson has got an opportunity to perhaps be that number
three receiver for the team.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
No, I think that there's a great opportunity there.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And I think even even better than that, you know,
we also have other options that we still have not displayed.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
We still haven't seen you know, what John news Smith
looks like, right, or what's hot fire move looks like.
So I mean to know that that these might be
your three wide receivers. I think even so, there's so
many other options. We still haven't seen. Jalen Warren out there,
of course, DK Metcalf, I mean, that's that's unequivocal number one.
But but I think once you start putting those pieces together,
(11:11):
and I think Roman fits in nicely to what they're
trying to do. You know, you know, I don't know
how much the prevalence of eleven personnel.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Is going to be with the Steelers and Arthur Smith.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
But I think if you are in that position where
you are considering it, I think you know that that
you do feel comfortable with rolling out the three that
you have. But of course I'm sure they're gonna look
at adding something else. So then you know, if that's
the case, we'll figure out how you know that that
the top four figures out. But I mean, you look
at with Scotty Miller and you look at Vince Kronic.
(11:44):
Both of those guys are are very are very skilled,
very capable. Scotty Miller definitely had some moves in the
game that says, okay, he can do more than just
special teams, you know. And I think when you think
about that, okay, you guys, you will have some tough decisions.
I think they'll keep you know, anywhere from five to
six receivers. How that shakes out if still, you know,
(12:07):
you have to feel good if you're Roman Wilson, you
have to feel good if you're Scottie Miller. And the
current setup of everything, of course DK and col won't
have to think about those things. But then you know,
what does five and six look like? You know, how
do you shape that out with your ride receiving corps uh,
because some guys I thought that also took some steaces.
I thought Brandon Johnson was still solid once again, especially
(12:28):
on the touchdown grab. So what do you do with
a Brandon Johnson? I mean, he was on the practice
squad a year ago and he's been in this system.
Good strong hands, makes a great decision and also was
in on the special teams game. Remember we talked about,
caught a touchdown then then made a tackle right after that.
Those are things that are very attractive when you can
be multi purpose type of guys. You know, Max Hurlman,
(12:51):
you know, had a great game one kind of was
mid in the in the in this second game, right,
had some catches, kind of missed a couple of throws,
you know, was in there and around the football. Didn't
quite make the impact tackles that you that you would
like to see in special teams. But he does have
that capability. He can tackle and he can't catch balls.
(13:13):
So what do you do with the Max Hurlman type
of guy?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Do you do?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
You consider him a corps for and a wide receiver.
Do you consider him a more defensive.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Guy that also plays specials.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
He's a very interesting character that you kind of throw
into that mix as well. And so I really like
the problems that we have because I think there's a
lot of good. I mean, I haven't seen a lot
of you know, there's there's some great moments. I think
with Roman, there's been some great moments, you know, But
there's been a lot of good. But it's good, gonna
be good enough when it comes down to the final
cutdown here.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, it is, Uh, it is fascinating. And I do
think you know, you and I have talked about this,
like and we'll get more into the roster in just
a moment, but I do want to underscore what you
just said. People have to remember no Johnny Smith, no
DK Metcalf. If you tell me right now, and know
Pat Fryarmuth right, if you tell me right now. Hey,
(14:05):
who do you think are going to be the top
three receivers for the Steelers this year? Well we just
named him. I think Metcalf is going to be first.
And I think it's going to be interesting whether it's
John OUs Smith or Pat Fryarmouth who's going to be
second or third. You're playing these games without your top
three guys. It'll be very interesting to see how much
Jalen Warren is utilized in the passing game when when
(14:29):
we get Aaron Rodgers out there, and whether Gainwell will
be a bigger part of that. So we're not seeing
a lot of passes to the running backs right now,
is that going to be a bigger part of this offense?
We might be looking at, you know, Gainwell being our
I'm just you know, throwing it out there for argument's sake.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
He might be the fourth leading receiver on this team
right so.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Now, yeah, now you know you're you're sort of getting
down the roster here. But that's why I think it's
so important to show what you can do. And I
think Roman Wilson, you know, Mike Tomlins said, you can
tell it's his second year. You know, he's uh, he's
hard working, he's available. You can tell it's his second year.
If you're a player, if you're Roman Wilson, that's what
(15:12):
you want to hear from your head coach. You want
to hear things like that, and you want to have
the ability to, you know, in this first year for him,
this first year on the field. To me, you know,
there's there's building blocks you put in place, right, Like, Okay,
am I part of the rotation?
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Right? Great? Now? Can be?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Can I be a bigger part of the rotation? Can
I be a guy that's leaned on more? When we're
sending two receivers out there? Am I the second receiver?
Or am I waiting for three receiver sets?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Can I?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Can I be a bigger factor in the offense? All
those things come into play. The first thing you want
to do is make sure you're healthy, you're available, and
you're getting a helmet on game day.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, I mean, and you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I mean that's availability is one of the best abilities.
We won't say it's the best ability, right, I mean,
we've had that discussion, but it is is it is
a prerequisite for activity, right. You got to be available
to actually participate. If you if you're injured or you're
not or you're not physically there, then we're gonna have
a little bit of a problem. Right. But I think
(16:15):
if you can get to that point, I think that's
that's what we're all looking for. We're all looking for
an opportunity to see if guys can compete. That's gonna
be the first thing, right. You know, we always heard
the old ads you can't make the club and the tub,
and I think that that applies to the availability and
the health of guys, you know, because like you said,
you got some guys are nicked up. You got some
(16:35):
guys trying to trying to fight through some things. And
the question is are you hurt or are you injured?
You know, because hurt you could play through. It's injured
you have to stop. And so knowing what those determinants
are as we get into this final preseason game, is
gonna be upon us really quickly. I mean we're talking
about three days from now, we're gonna be playing a
rather game. So how fast can you recover on the
(16:56):
short week? Because guess what, end season, it's gonna be
the same exact way, and so might it might be
even shorter.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, And if we look at the receiver position, I
don't know what's going on with Calvin Austin. The team
hasn't disclosed. They don't have to in the preseason. You know,
let's hope he's going to be out there. And you're
right about you know, Roman Wilson can return punts. Look,
they get they're giving. When we talk about the receiving spot,
they gave Keishawn Williams all the return opportunities, right, he
(17:22):
was the guy out there on punt return and there
were a lot of punts, so he got his opportunity there.
And each one of these receivers brings a little something different,
you know, Rock Taylor brings something different to the table.
Keishawn Williams brings something different. McCutcheon brings something different to
me in the in Hurlerman. We saw him That Hurlerman,
(17:42):
like you said, stood out in Game one. He's an
interesting story in that you know, he played at Colgate
and he plays defensive back and he you know, he
plays receiver and he plays a bunch of different positions,
and you know, he's more of a you know, I
don't know, I don't know how to describe his abilities,
but he's.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
He's got utility.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
He's a utility guy with some talent, and you know,
is he, you know, potentially a practice squad type of guy.
But when I look at the receivers, they and we'll
just kind of finish the receiver section off now before
we move on to other positions. From what we saw.
I thought Brandon Johnson for the reasons you mentioned, was
(18:22):
a guy that stood out. I mean, here's a guy
who's who's got some he's got some pedigree in the NFL.
You know, this isn't his first rodeo H Kenny contribute
on special teams, and I think that you know, it's
it's We've talked about this a little bit before, but
the depth of the roster to me, is in such
(18:42):
good shape that you feel so good about, say your
sixth defensive lineman just as an example, your your.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Fourth, uh inside linebacker.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
You know, positions where a lot of teams, you know,
even if they have good starters, are sort of traditionally
looking around and oh man, what.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Do we have there?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I just wonder, you know, how much of it is
gonna come down to special teams like as a as
a maybe even a larger factor perhaps than in years past.
I think what's happening is your sixth wide receiver is
battling your six inside linebacker is battling your eighth you know,
cornerback or whatever.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
For a spot on the roster.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
You know, you're I think, like you said, there's pretty
clearly five wide receivers.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Right, if you talk about you know, DK Metcalf.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Calvin, Austin, Roman, Wilson, Ben's Kronick, Scotty Miller, those guys
seem to have some separation there. If you're gonna keep
a sixth receiver, it's because you're not gonna keep you know,
a seventh or sixth or whatever cornerback or a or
a sixth inside linebacker.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
That's why you're gonna keep one.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
So you have to beat out all the other guys
in your position group or show a different side with
all the other guys in your position group, and then
your your move onto a special category where you're battling
other guys and other positions to show that you're worthy
of being on the team.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
If in fact we're right about those five wide receivers.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I think that that's that's gonna be the big question,
you know, because also you have to realize, you know,
the team, after this last game, you're gonna be also scouring, you.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Know, to see what do we have out there?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Right? What else is out there from these other teams?
And I think that's where you have to be very mindful,
is that you're also battling, you know, fifty four through
ninety on thirty one other teams, Right, is what we
have better than what we can go out there and
get in the market, and so you know, and also
(20:46):
vice versa. Right, you know, Hey, maybe maybe what I
did wasn't good enough here, but maybe it's good enough elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Not everybody has all.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Of their wide receivers set up, and they maybe still
need a guy who could play special teams but also
play wide receiver. You know, you have you have a
lot of those questions out there as well. So what
are the other teams seeing? Like I think a lot
of teams are looking, say, hey, I like what Brandon
Johnson did. I'm counting their room, you know, And you know,
maybe Keishawan Williams maybe, hey, maybe we're not really settled
(21:13):
at who we got at punt returner right now, but
you know, Keishawn Williams fits into into that type of category.
Or you know, what does a guy you know on
the edge outside or inside backer. We need another one
of those. Maybe there's one here. I mean, there's so
many different ways you can make That's why it's always
important in these preseason games. You always put your best
foot forward. Yeah, because you know you're auditioning for all
(21:36):
thirty two teams every time you step into a stadium,
for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And let me ask you this one other thing before
we go to break, because we have some other position
to valueate other guys to get to, because there were
some other players who stood out. And I don't suppose
there's one hundred percent hard and fast rule.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
So let's say you're you're taking a class in high
school and you know a teacher will say, okay, then
midterm is, you know, thirty percent of your grades, The
quizzes are thirty percent of your grades, and your final
exam is forty percent of your grades. Right, So that's
how they're going to figure out what your grades are
for the year. Well, we have you know, what did
(22:16):
the scouts say, why are you here? That's got to
be part of the grade. What have we seen from
you in mini camp and OTAs? That's got to be
part of the grade. What have we seen from you
every day in practice and in you know meetings and
did you show up on time where you alert? You know,
(22:36):
did that then you know spill out over onto the
practice field and you showed those things and you showed
the acumen to pick things up. What part of that
is weighted on the games? I mean there's a there's
I'm sure probably your recency bias, right, but there's also
a there's also a game bias, like it's okay to
look good in shorts in May, but we want you
(22:57):
to look good in pads in September. That's why you're here.
So how much do you think these games? And it's
a little different, I'm sure for everybody there's no set
rule where hey, this is fifty percent of your final grade.
But you know, how heavily do you think these preseason
games and this last one will be weighted in determining
whether a player makes the roster?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I think I think I think that it's a cumulative effect, right,
It's kind of like what's your body of work been?
And you know when I talked about this, you know
when I said, you know, this journey is more like
mile markers than milestones as you kind of progress through
the through through this training camp and preseason process. So
I think it's you know, I think I think it's
(23:40):
a culmination. It's what did you do in practice every day?
What do the coaches have to tell you did you
clean those things up? Did you make the same mistakes twice?
And then when we get to the stadium, how well
do you adapt on the fly? And then if your
role increases or decreases, how do you handle that opportunity
as it presents itself. And then you kind of make
(24:01):
your way through and you kind of keep little check
marks along the way about what they're doing. You want
to see if there is a setback, right, you know,
in a game, how do you rebound back to the
next game? You know, what do you take the information
in the classroom and can you practically apply it on
the field the next outing? Those are the things I
think is more so than kind of like you said,
(24:22):
the chunks. I think that you know, from what I
understand about the Steelers process, they want to see a
culmination like can the can this guy be a stealer
at the end of the day? Can you be a stealer?
And what does that mean? What is it?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
How is that defined?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Well, it's mental toughness, it's grit, it's determination, and you know,
it's finding a solution when it seems like it's unlikely
right in the midst of chaos, Like how can you
how can you problem solve on the fly? I think
I think that's what you're kind of looking for, because
you know, one guy could look great in practice because
(24:57):
he has a beat. He plays against the guy every
day since training camp start, right, he got sixteen practices
against this dude. It looks great. But then you get it.
Then you get out there in the game and play
against a new opponent, and now you don't know what
to do, right, You're just you're just throwing anything to
see if it sticks or did you study and can
you go out there and exploit that guy just like
you did the guy in practice. Like that's what they
(25:17):
want to see and that's what you want to That's
what you're trying to get to know about these guys
in a very finite, very accelerated fashion because unlike college,
unlike like, you don't have a whole year to kind
of grow into a position, right, you got to hit
it now and make sure you stand out enough that
you could be counted as one of fifty three or
one of the sixteen practice squad guys, and then can
(25:40):
you earn the helmet on game day? He'd be one
of the top forty six potentially by your actions. That's
what they're looking at, like, can this guy if one
guy goes down, is this guy ready to go in
and take his place? You know, Mike Dillan never talks
about we don't have backups. We have starters in waiting.
That's what the depth chart looks like, a starter, starter
in waiting, and then we go from there. So can
(26:01):
you be a starter in waiting? Do you have enough gumption?
Do you have enough skill? Do you have enough knowledge
in your head or the ability to figure it out
to make sure that you can make it to the
next level? And can you thrive and not just survive
at the next level?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
All right, So there's still much to get to in
this preseason game, and much to get to as far
as getting you ready for the next game, because I
think we only have two shows, right, we have two
shows to wrap up day and tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
We have grown to cover Max.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
We do a lot of ground little time, all.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Right, So we're gonna begin to cover more of that
ground when we continue inside the Locker Room with King
and Starks presented by your neighborhood Ford store Man. Welcome
back inside the locker Room. If King and Starks presented
by your neighborhood Ford Store. Here on the Steelers audio network,
(26:54):
we are giving you coast to coast coverage. You like that, Max,
or should I drop?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You know it has a good ring to it.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
It sounds impressive, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yes, it sounds like we are we are we are
multitasking at its finest. We got it.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So we just went over the wide receiver situation for
the Steelers, and I do think it's gonna be interesting
to see if they keep a sixth receiver. And if
they keep a six receiver, you know what other position
is going to be, you know, victimized or whatever however
you want to go, you know, minus a player. So
(27:32):
and just to wrap up that position. And again we
talk about recency bias. Right now for me, uh, that
guy's rock tailor possibly you know, at the end of
practice and you know, training camp, it might have been
Keyshawn Williams and I see him back there returning punts
after last week last week's game, it might have been
Max Harlaman. So, uh, my my guy right now is
(27:53):
Brandon Johnson, Say, Rocktail, I've met Brandon gent My guy
right now is Brandon Johnson because he caught a touchdown
pass and made some tack on special teams.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, I mean I think I think you you're not
wrong on that.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
And he's a guy that I've kind of had peg
since training camp, right, you knows, a guy who's done
some really good things. Strong hands, combat catches so to speak,
you know, catches in traffic. He's shown the ability to
be a hand catcher in those moments, you know. And
I think you know, when you see a guy flash
(28:26):
for a touchdown and then flash on special teams right
after that, you know, it gives you a multifaceted approach, right,
And I think that's how he kind of felt about
Max Hrlman on that two minute drive, you know, him
having some big plays in it to get to the
end zone and of course in on special teams. So
it's it's going to be up and down on recency bias,
(28:46):
and I think that's why you kind of take that
cumulative approach when you look at these guys, and you know,
Rock Taylor had some opportunities in this game to flash.
I think he I think he showed. I think he
showed some things, but you know, is that enough? You know,
Max Hrlaman, did you take enough of a step forward
based on what the coaches asked of you to do.
(29:11):
That's gonna be the next question. So I look at
that and I say that, you know, that's six wide
receiver spot. Is it on this roster or is it?
Or is it elsewhere? And I think that's what you
have to kind of answer. And I think right now,
if I was slotting, I would probably slot Brandon Johnson
in that sixth hole right now as we speak.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
So and I do think again, just to wrap this up,
just this part of it, because you know, when we
come back next week, we're gonna be what a day
or two away from cutdown and it cut down. We'll
cut down this twenty six. That's Tuesday, I think, So
we'll have a couple of days to discuss this further.
But you know, it's, uh, it's gonna be interesting how
(29:49):
they view the wide receiver position and how you know,
do this tous have a punter to trade? For example,
you know they've got two punters. I don't know is
they're gonna keeping both. Is there another team out there saying, well, listen,
what they got is better than what we have.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
We have an excess at somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Although I suspect that I don't know is this Steelers
would be in the market for excess off somebody else.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I think they've got plenty of excess on their own roster.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, maybe, I don't know, is there a position
maybe offensive line where you know, maybe an extra body
to come in and compete might be good.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
It's such a deep.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Roster, Max, I mean, there's I just think there's a
lot of talent at a lot of different positions.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, I think I think you're always looking at the
offensive line position. I think you know, you got you
got a question. You know, how long is Calvin Calvin
Anderson going to be out as heesars injury? I think also,
you know, uh, Gareth Warren, the young rookie from lynden Wood,
he kind of got banged up on that interception at
the end of the game, trying to get the foot
(30:53):
of the fumble and trying to get it. You know
that that's that's another question. You know. Steven Jonesy's enough
that you liked from him. He had a couple of
he had a couple of hiccups as well. Dylan Cook.
You know, where's Dylan Cook stand in all of this?
As a swing guy for you. You know, Andrews, Pete
Todd tried tested in true former Pro Bowl veteran that
(31:16):
can play guard and tackle. You know, once he gets
further into shape, I mean, he's still to remember this,
dude's still only like nine days in you know, to
training camp. Off the couch. You see some of the
flashes of Andres and you're like, okay, this is why
ap was was one of those was one of those
top guys for the Saints for a very long time.
(31:37):
You know. Unfortunate situation I think for him in Vegas
with a regime change, that probably prompted his availability because
I think he did some good things, started a couple
of games for the Raiders to end the season.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
But you know, with Pete.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Carroll coming in, maybe that that did just he wasn't
one of Pete's guys, so he kind of was an
odd man out in that situation. But we'll see how
he does, and you know, he'll have a short around
week to see if he can get back into action
and see if he can prove himself. So, I mean,
there's a lot of depth there, but you're always looking.
You're always gonna wonder, right, there's always a question mark
out there. But is there enough here? Is there enough
(32:11):
here to say, hey we can fight with just this.
I'm good with going into battle with that. I think
another place, you know, like you said, wide receiver we
just talked about, you know, you know for the first
you know, segment and a half here. You know, is
that wide receiver on this roster that's gonna be six
or in or I should say in the six mix.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Let's put it that way, six mix?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Is that guy here? You know, I look at a
lot of other positions. I say, I don't think we
need to go elsewhere, but I think if you're looking
at it, you know, you're gonna look at offensive line,
You're gonna you're gonna look at You're gonna wonder about
defensive line always because those are the highest concentration of
players on your team, are on both of your line sides.
And you know, I think you're I think you're great
in your set at at the defensive back position. I
(32:54):
think you have a lot of quality, depth and guys
that you can depend on in the lineback and position.
You know, the question is gonna be Cole Holkum. You know,
what do you do with Cole Hulkum, What do you
do with Carson Brunner, You know, because both of them
are highly adepted not only making plays and Cole Hulkom
made some plays all over the place at linebacker, but
also was playing special teams. Carson bruner the same thing,
(33:16):
you know, he was He was making some splash plays
in the special teams a week ago, showed up again
and was making some plays also defensively this week. So
you know, when you kind of go through the exercise
of it all, it's like, man, we do have some
good excess, you know, can you can you can you
stash a jj gallbreath, you know at the tight end
position because you kind of feel good about your top four.
(33:38):
I mean Connor Hayward, Darnel Washington, Pat Friarmouth and John
news Smith. You feel good about four tight ends, you know,
but where do you where do you have him him?
Kevin Folish you brought back as well to kind of
play some tight end stuff. I'm gonna be interested to
see how that running back room especially shapes out right.
I mean, we talked, you know, we we know who
(34:00):
Jalen Warren is. He's sitting out. He's one of those
guys designated guys, but you know can gain well, like
you said, brings a pedigree, brings a skill set at
the running back position. Also Trey Sermon as well. You know,
he has to low Nichols is the one where I'm like, man,
he keeps flashing King, Okay, he keeps flashing.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So we wanted to talk about the run, you know,
I think we wanted to get into the running back
position and your thoughts on Caleb Johnson. So my premise
at the beginning of the show was that, you know,
the guys that are going to be, you know, part
of the rotation, part of the guys that we expect
to see playing every Sunday or project to be guys
(34:42):
that are playing every Sunday. Roman Wilson is won, Caleb
Johnson's another. We'll get to the defensive side of the
ball later. But what did you think of what you
saw from Caleb Johnson.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You know, I'm seeing growth from Caleb. You know, I'm
seeing him learn and figure things out and learn from
his mistakes. And early on I felt like he was
too quick and I even talked about this during the broadcast.
I felt like he was too quick on his reads.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
He wasn't.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
He wasn't setting up the blocks to help his O line,
you know, be successful for him. And I think he
kind of he kind of took that lesson, kind of
ran with it from the first half to the second half. Now,
where my concern is is that as the game progresses,
obviously the quality of talent goes down, right, you know,
as we as we get through these preseason games. And
(35:32):
he did it against the lesser talent. He made the adjustment.
And listen, I get it. I get it. For everybody
out there, you know, you could only you know, you
can only play against who's out there and you go
from there. But I say that and say that you
had the opportunity early to really show us, you know,
(35:56):
what you could do against top more top tier talent.
I'm gonna put it like that, because it's not all
the way top tier. I mean, they didn't have everybody
out there, but they I mean they did have Vita
Vea out there running and chasing Mason Rudolph and giving
him a headache. And he is an exceptional human being.
But at the same time, that's what I want to see.
(36:17):
I want to see, how do you do against the
top tier talent, and I thought the starting over line
had their moments as well. They're still growing as a unit,
trying to trying to figure out, you know, what the
role looks like for all of them in that room.
But I liked what I saw, and I thought Caleb
got better as the game went on. I thought, I
(36:37):
thought he developed some nice some nice traits the patients,
all the things you expect to see from your rookie
running back. He's learning and growing and he's taking a
database of what's happening with all these players around him,
and I think he's adapting to that. So I believe
he's on track. I think that's the best way of
saying he's on track to be a guy for us.
(37:00):
But at the end of the day, you know, we
want to see how that vision continues to grow, because
right now, you know, I say, you know, Kenneth Gainwell
looks to be You're you're still one of your lead dogs.
And I think for Caleb, you know, he's developing into
the workhorse. He's showing that he can take multiple snaps
back to back and get into it. So I like
(37:21):
where he's at. He's still a rookie in my mind.
As far as his progression. So I'm still waiting to
see those moments at the beginning of games where he
can just just change you know, the entire scope of
what you're looking at with explosive plays. But I do
like where he's flashing for the most part.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, and again, you know, it is so difficult to
parse out, you know, a player from the action. So
I understand what you're saying, like do this against the ones,
But also you don't have your ones out there, right,
You don't have the threat of DK Metcalf on the outside.
You don't have John Smith in the in the U
(38:03):
H back position at the slot position, who's a threat
to you know, to throw the ball to. But it
is also going to help you, you know, in the
blocking game too.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
You know, so I understand what you're saying, you want
to see success ones against ones, but you know it's again,
this is where I think scouting in any sport is
I'm in awe of scouts and good ones that can
that can pick this out and say this is why
this guy is gonna be good because there's just a
lot of factors.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, No, there's there's a lot of things that go
into it, and that's why, you know, I hasten how
I'm grading with my eye, and that's why I'm trying
to trying to make it, as I guess, as objective
as possible. I think it's the best way of saying
that as objective as possible with not saying, well, he
didn't do it against the ones, so he so he
(38:50):
must be garbage.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
No, no, no, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
You know, I'm not gonna go down that route and
not gonna, you know, put that undue stress upon him.
But what I will say is is you're showing the
right progress, you know, But always I'm always asked, I
need more because there's limited opportunities to make these decisions
and how much can I trust you?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
That's gonna be the key thing.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Now. I felt like he did make some progress and
he learned from from from some of those mistakes that
he had at the beginning of the year. Uh. Well,
I say, at the first preseason game, I felt like
he's definitely done what he was supposed to do. And
I think when when you have that type of progress,
you have to feel good about it. And so I
(39:34):
think that's where I'm like, I'm not going to be
as tough because I think he is making the progress
that we want to see for a young guy coming
in and having to assume this larger role within a
team right out the gates, you know. But once again
I hasten it and I say, he still got to learn.
(39:55):
You know that Iowa vision is not going to be
Steeler vision when it comes to it, running it running
in the backfield. I think that's the best. I think
that's that's that's the most polite and easiest way to
say that, right. But he but he is making some
great progress. I mean I felt really good, especially late
in the game. He was it. He put us in
positions to where we could be successful, and that's all
you can ask for, right you know, you can only
(40:17):
play against the guys that are in front of you,
and so he did that. So check you know what
I'm saying. On the on the on the mile marker.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Check.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
He he is doing those things. He's flashy, hand explosive
play in this game. But once again I just say, hey,
him versus the field, right, you know, how are you
going to earn your reps in season? Because guess what
is only gonna be ones? You know, And a couple
of a couple of alternates that come in there, And
how are you going to do when it gets into
(40:46):
game time? And you know, Quinn Williams is not just
taking the first ten reps of the game, He's playing
the whole game. That's right. You know, you get you
get to New York on Sunday. How are you going
to escape that big body? Right? You know, how are
you gonna how are you going to distinguish yourself?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
So you know, I love the progress.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I'm not gonna sit here and try and poop poo
on that at all, not not by any stretch.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
But I gotta say, give me more.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Come along a little bit faster, be a little bit cleaner,
may be a little bit more patient. Don't be so
quick to bust to the outside and think you can
outrun guys, because you can't at this level. I mean,
it showed that even a dB James Parrish, right, a
dB will hit you in the mouth. And you know,
where's a college you might you might get a business
decision as a as an Antonio Cromarty once coined the phrase,
(41:31):
you know, there's no business decisions. The business is the
is the business, and that's it. It's like I need
you to get down so I can continue to eat,
So you know, being smarter about that setting up your
blocks a little bit more before you make that cutback,
because I thought there was some really nice lanes that
the O line created that just kind of got negated,
you know, in the progress and in the scheme structure
of what they were trying to run on certain plays.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
He is Max Starks. I'm rob King.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You're inside the locker room with King and Starks, presented
by your neighborhood Ford Store here on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Welcome back inside the locker room.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Was kinging starts for was enter oury neighborhood for here
in the Steelers Audio Network, we're talking running backs.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Max, I want to hear your thoughts on Lou Nichols.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Man.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
I love when Lou Nichols, you know, provided in this game.
You know, that thirty seven yard explosive was just a
thing of beauty and when you can have that type
of ferocity when you run the football and I know
he only carried the ball three times, you know, and
and came up with a total of forty two yards
(42:42):
with that thirty seven yard are in there, but you
know it does pop when you have a thirty seven
yard out in that type of game. So I look
at that. He also had a nice catch out of
the backfield a six yard gain on a little swing route.
So I mean, he just he does some things where
I'm just like, Okay, okay, this guy. Know he's a
late adding camp, but man, he brings a pop. He
(43:04):
brings a certain hustle level to what you know you
want to see, you feel, you feel the sense of urgency,
and every time he runs the football.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
I totally agree, totally agree.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
And I think we saw that he was a seventh
round pick of Green Bay a couple of years ago,
so he's got a little bit of a pedigree. At
least a guy was drafted, although again we've seen guys
like Willie Parker was in the Steerers Hall of Honor
be undrafted. When I think from the very first time
(43:37):
we saw him, we were, you know, watching practice Chuck
Noles Stadium, perched atop the field there, uh from our
our broadcast layer and from his very first practice. Wait,
who's thirty five?
Speaker 3 (43:53):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Quinndel Johnson? Cameron McCutcheon has been released. Okay, what do
we got here? Look at who is this guy? And
and even from the very first time he touched the ball,
from the very first time he tried to block somebody,
he has had a sense of energy and purpose. You
mentioned the explosive run, but that catch, I mean you
(44:14):
talk about business decisions and guys making him.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
That catch impressed.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Me because it was out in front of him, in
that that little area where there's a something going on
in the back of your mind that tells you I
might get slaughter here, you know, Yeah, maybe that's a
maybe it's a high pass over the middle or a
ball you have once you have to extend yourself, you're
(44:40):
leaving yourself in a very very vulnerable position.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
And that pass led him and he was in a
bone man.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
He went and got it like he's gotten everything else,
with aggression and purpose and like importance, you know, like, hey,
this is important that I catched this ball and he did.
It's a six yard I think it was a six
yard completion, Max. But again, it spoke to me of
of his sense of urgency.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
No, you're absolutely right, and I think that's what you
want to see, right. You want to see guys who
where it matters to them, It matters how you go
about your business? Where is your strain so to speak? Sorry,
sorry about that, yeah, no, uh. And I think that
(45:29):
was one of the things that really impressed me about
him is that the strain was like, Hey, I don't
care if this.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Is a hospital ball.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
We call the hospital balls, right when you set a
guy out there, you know, the Jayleen McMillan, right, that
catch he made that Uh that that Teddy Bridgewater kind
of hung him out there a little bit, a little
high at Darryl Prale kind of came underneath him.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
That was that that that was a hospital ball.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
You know, when you have those potential conflict catches that
you have to make, are you willing to fully the
extend or you're gonna get alligator arms right right? You know,
like whoa, hey, listen, I'm not trying to get smoked
right now, that's what you want to see.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
And I thought he accomplished that really well.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
And like you said, everything that he did he did
with high, high urgency, high speed, and he didn't care
if he was gonna make a mistake. He was gonna
make the mistake going one hundred miles an hour, right
for sure.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
I think he stuck out and has stuck out for
all of us. But again, if you're going to keep
a fourth running back, we know you're gonna keep three,
right if everybody's healthy. We know you're keeping Jailing warn
we know you're keeping Kenneth Game. Well, we know you're
keeping Caleb Johnson. Now, you know, is it Hull, is
it Sermon? Is it Nickels? You know there's a lot
(46:43):
of competition there for that last running back spot, if
in fact you're going to keep for That's why we
keep saying the fourth running back. Okay, you got to
separate yourself from the other guys and be that first
guy standing. But it's you know, it's like a spelling bee. Man,
you're all gonna be out in front of the class,
right and there's only gonna be you had eight guys
(47:04):
trying to answer questions for four spots or whatever.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
It's gonna be so.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Definitely gonna be some interesting decisions made. We have to
make the decision to go to a break, which we're
gonna do now. But we have plenty more to talk about.
We have not touched on the defensive side of the ball.
There was one guy I thought stuck out would love
to hear what Max thought about this particular player, whom
we will discuss when we continue inside the locker room
with King and Starks, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
Here on this steel, there's audio network.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com