September 17, 2025 • 43 mins
Max and Wes on the show today and the two discuss both sides of the ball and what changes they think need to be made for the team to bounce back this upcoming weekend.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is in the locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at shop
dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
All right, good morning, and welcome inside the locker room
with King and Starks. Let's been a little bracket around that,
and say and Euler. We have Wesley Euler sitting in
for Rob King as he still has duties with the
baseball world, So it is good. How you doing this morning, Wes?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
You know, I think that I think that Rob King
gave me the sniffles or something, Max, because you know,
my nose is a little runny, throats, throats a little scratchy,
or I don't know. Maybe maybe it was just all
that hooting and holler and I did down in Morgantown
on saturd But I'm good, Max, always, uh, you know,
I always always enjoy the opportunities to get to to
fill in and chop it up with you for a
little bit here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's right, a little backyard brawl. Fever, never hurt anybody, right,
especially Buddy way to do it.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
That's a either I'm not going to recover from for
a long time partner.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well he at least four years, right, you.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Get the obviously, Yeah, I was just gonna say, obviously.
You know, if I could, like you know, wave my
wand and and and Pitt and w V would play
every year, and college football would just go back to
being a regional sport. Imagine that you wouldn't have U C.
L A And Rutgers playing in the same conference. But
if there was ever a time, if there was ever
(01:46):
a time for the backyard Brawl to take a four
year hiatus off, the back of Saturday certainly would be
the perfect time that I would choose as well.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh absolutely, Man. That was my first brawl and it
was It was a dandy, you know. And I think
that's what you missing rivalry games because you can't just
predict just because one team lost the previous week, the
other team's been steamrolling the other team for the for
you know, for the past couple of weeks. You can't.
You can't predict that type of stuff, like when it's
a rivalry and like you said, the close proximity of
(02:16):
these schools. Probably a lot of players that came from
ones you know that that used to be teammates in
high school all of a sudden become enemies. And you know,
that's the fun part of this game. And yeah, you're right,
we've lost that regionality in those moments, but glad that
we'll get it. And then once it does come back
in four years, it'll be an eight year stint. It'll
(02:37):
be eight year agreement, which is awesome.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yes, so yes, and as you know, as you know too,
in that time period, there will be more conference realignment.
There will be more conference moving and shaking. That's just
gonna be the nature of the beast of college football.
I think the Big Ten and the SEC are only
gonna you know, add a couple more massive brands here
in the in the next you know, handful of years.
(02:59):
And so I'm hopeful by the time you know, that
eight year series runs out that West Virginia and pitt
will be in the same conference again as the Good
Lord intended. And maybe we'll be playing that game over
Thanksgiving like it like the Good Lord intended, you know,
instead of the third week in September. But yeah, certainly
was a heck of a scene and I think a
reminder of what we all love about football and college football.
(03:21):
And I'm obviously thrilled that you were there to take
it in as well.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yes, no, absolutely no. I had a blast calling that game,
and you know it, it was everything you felt. I mean,
for me, I felt like I walked in probably the
most prepared I've walked into a college football game, you know,
in any season, because I had Pitt the very previous week,
and then I had WVU to open the season, so
(03:48):
that you get Pitt WVU. It's like I've done over
half of my work before I've even started, because I've
literally seen and experienced and notated the game. So it
made for a very fun broadcast on my side. And
also it was not a horrific travel weekend as well
like it was the previous week. Try to get to
(04:09):
New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yes, I think Morgan, Morgantown and Pittsburgh much easier than Raleigh,
Durham to New York City to New Church.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Correct. Oh my gosh, that was that was so miserable.
I'm so glass behind me. But any who, we are,
we are tuned in. That's a little bit of the Shenanigans.
We got out of the way. From the college side,
I'm sure pitt fans don't want to hear this, and
you know that they're they're probably still sulking. But the
WVU contingent that are still Steeler fans are very happy.
So we're it's like it's like a broadcast divided, you know,
(04:39):
as far as the people listening. Uh so, but no.
But I mean, you know, Wes, obviously we had coach
Tom would talk yesterday. Obviously no football are practices to
note today. We will we will get the first practice
of everybody and figuring out how you know, how to
how to write the ship from what happened on Sunday.
(05:03):
And you know, then I got sent a clip of
a kid talking about the same cover one they blew
two weeks in a row. And I'm just like, so
the world knows about all these things that you're getting
a more sophisticated football fan that is able to kind
of explain and do and figure out all this stuff.
(05:25):
But I think the biggest thing is just the injury front,
like still kind of not knowing. And you know, there's
no Isaiah louder Milk right now, there's no Alex Higsmith
right now, Derek Harmon, Deshaun Elliott still TBD, and we're hoping,
you know, Joey Porter is available this week and can
come back and kind of help the secondary and you
(05:47):
can kind of get back to that group that you
that we intended it to be. You know, It's just
it's it's unfortunate. I mean, any any big nugget that
you took away from the press conference yesterday.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah, I think just max they are, They're gonna have
to figure out some i think very clear cut issues
on defense, the injuries that they are dealing with right now,
and in the face of those kind of how it
is only two games, but I think a very clear
cut game plan from the Jets and the Seahawks about
(06:23):
how they are attacking the Steelers defense currently being a
ton of over the field, middle of the field usage
in the pass game. I believe that number was slightly
over forty percent for Seattle on Sunday middle of the
field targets in the pass game, which is a massive
number by NFL standards. And then I'm sure you've seen
the charts as well too. The Jets and the Seahawks
they're just running left, man, they are just running away
(06:45):
from TJ.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Watt.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Over ninety percent of the time runs are to the
left side of the offense's line of scrimmage. When you
combine I think those two clear cut areas that teams
have chosen through the first two games to attack this defense.
With a defense that is dealing with some significant injuries,
you just laid it out there. You're already down to
Shaun Elliott and Joey Porter Junior coming into this game.
(07:09):
Then you lose high Smith and Loudermilk Early Patrick Queen
and Peyton Wilson both miss snaps and series at different
portions of time with injuries as well too. I mean Max,
the Steelers played five defensive backs against Seattle on Sunday.
All five of them were not on the team last year,
and if they go to a sixth it's probably gonna
(07:30):
be jabro Peppers. He was not on the team last year.
He just got added. Even a guy like Chuck Clark
was not with the team at the start of prese
or at the start of training camp. Part of me
he had to hop on that moving train in the
middle of training camp. So it as you have been dealt,
I think the worst hand possible with the defense. Your
first round pick hasn't played. Cam Hayward needed a little
(07:51):
bit more time to get up the speed with just
his age and the lack of work that he did
understandably in training camp in the preseason. Teams are now
staying away from TJ. Watt. You've got a secondary where
your only two returning starters have both been out. I
think the issues are you know that. That's the good
part of it, Max, is there's I don't think it
(08:13):
like you don't need to go to the doctor and
talk about your symptoms and figure out what the diagnosis is.
I think all of that is pretty clear in front
of you. But now it's just time to attack it
and start to figure out some solutions this week.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Oh, you're You're absolutely right, and and that's one to
really think on. And I think Q on is that
your entire secondary was not here a year ago right
now as it stands. And the guys you're asking to
kind of man the ship or man the traditions, they
don't know the traditions, right, They're not a part of that.
(08:46):
They don't understand and like you said, they're just trying
to play. And I think communication is also key when
you haven't spent that physical time with guys, the communication,
the feel for what guys do just becomes that much harder.
And so I think that's where you kind of have
to be a little more flexible, and you really need
to scheme your weaknesses, you know, in those moments, and
(09:10):
I think you're absolutely right running left the entire time.
I mean, let's not even you know, I just I
still get PTSD from that Kenneth Walker just toss crack.
They were admitting defeat and say, hey, we're just gonna
settle for three here, and they get a touchdown off
of the toskind you untouched unabated to the end zone.
(09:35):
And that's just a backbreaker mentally to know that we
just we can't guard that quote unquote right defensive side,
but left offensive side of the line. And of course
who gets injured on that side? Alex high Smith, who
would be your other defender for that, who plays to
run really well, and you know I left to Nick Herbig,
who Nick Herbig is best suited when you're in sub
(09:58):
package and you you know he is a depth pass rusher,
but at the point he can get tossed up, you know,
with a double team and he can get blocked and
that that's that's where that's where it becomes an issue.
And you know, you'd like to think you had an
insurance policy with a Bilik Harrison, who would be a
bigger guy who could bludgeon that that that end of
the line. He's out as well. We don't have him,
(10:21):
so you're left with that or Jack Sawyer and Jack
is you know, playing a lot of t J. Watts
break time stuff, and we also went we also went
three outside backers a number of times in that game
as well. I don't know if you knew that. So
you know, we did have cam with Nick, Jack and
TJ on the field at the same time and some
of the sub packs of just trying to change it
(10:41):
up for the pass rush and trying to get some smaller, faster,
lighter guys out there, and you know, we had marginal
success with that. It's a couple of incompletions when they
were out there. And then of course there was one
where it was the crossing route in the middle of
the field at forty percent, you're talking about getting attacked. Uh,
you know Cooper Cup you know he feasted in the
(11:04):
middle of the field last week you know, just when
we thought, okay, Jackson Smith and Jig was gonna get
sixty five percent of the targets because that's what he
got week one against San Francisco, then it was it
was the Cooper Cup, Elijah or Royo a j. Barner
show because Jackson Smith and Jigbulb was kind of it
was taken up and and on that on that touchdown
(11:24):
to Horton, that was the safety and the corner both
trying to bracket Jackson Smith and Jigball on the crosser
going to the offensive left defensive right, yes, and the
and Jalen was manned on Horton going across the other way,
(11:44):
and Horton had the inside track, so you were never
gonna beat him. The safety needed to come just to
blunt that. Uh, in that situation couldn't because we were
single high and we were manned up everywhere else. And guys,
when you know in cover one, when guys block, they
add right your linebackers and your man coverage guys your nickel,
and so that that put tremendous stretch on us. And
(12:07):
that's two weeks in a row. So you have to
figure out an answer for that. I mean, I would like
to think that cover three is probably that answer in
that moment, or you know, or running some type of
three man concept to to try and help that and
not bring in that blitch, just kind of manning and
if they block you zone, so you have that center
fielder or that you know, that traffic cop so to speak,
(12:29):
that could that could at least carry the guy if
they tried and throw underneath and then create, you know,
an opportunity where you create that three man fence along
the goal line or at depth, and then you carry
a guy late and you're keeping everything in front of
you and not behind you in those moments because it's
tough when you run a two man concept you have
three guys out there, you still lose, right because you're
(12:50):
force of that safety to make a decision in the
middle of the field, and the safety is going to
go with the known assailant, which is number eleven, and
you let Horden just creep through underneath because who who
is he right? And so is he ends up coming
back to hurts you. So it's a tough situation. And
you know, I kind of talked about this with Rob
on our show Wes, So I'll bring you up to speed.
(13:11):
It was more so the fact that you know, the
team was was in a position where they were down.
It was hot, and like you said, communication was at
a premium, and we didn't really get the communication. And
that's one thing, you know, I kind of look at it.
If we're gonna id the easiest thing, the easiest thing
is communication. Because I could go back to another play
(13:35):
that the Seahawks ran twice in the same drive. You
know it was it was a little it was a
little seam curl by the tight end and they were
running They're running twins concept on either side, so two
receivers on each side, and you know, Patrick Queen has
that running back that's on the left, but the tight
end comes over in motion and sits in the other wing.
(13:58):
He switches it off with Jack to say, Jack, here
take this to try and create his own concept. But
then he keeps his eyes on the running back at
the last second to make sure that Jack, who's a rookie,
has actually taken the assignment, and he's late to his
own assignment. And that's the touchdown. Just a little scene
curl right there booth because he looks right and then
(14:19):
he tries to come back left. He's about six inches
you know, off because he looked off to the right.
And so that's it's like those little things where it's
communication and trust and that's only built over time in
game time situations. And you know, hopefully now he'll realize
now I have to trust him. I gave him a call,
he acknowledged it. Let the rookie do the rookie right,
(14:39):
and let me do my job because I can't. I
can't be both places at once. It's too much field
to cover, right, And you don't want to get into
the guessing game. You just want to do your concept,
run your position, and man your area and not have
to do that. I think that and that's what the
Steels are struggling with so many new faces, so many
(15:00):
new people. The trust and the chemistry is not there.
And you know, I don't harp on it as much
as I do offensive line chemistry because usually you know,
athleticism outweighs it. But like you said, rib injury for
pat uh Peyton Peyton, you know, at some type of
shoulder thing. So they were playing hobbled, you know, and
(15:21):
compromise the whole game, and all you had was Cole
Holkom and Carson Brunner left.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Right, and Max they had to change they had to
change the green dot guy the green dot helmet multiple times.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Oh gosh, yeah, it was telephone.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
It was it was like a ring ring ring banana phone.
Who's got the helmet here? And you know Deshaun Elliott
is a huge communicator for that secondary as well too,
and you're down him already, and then you're switching green
dot helmets. And that's a real tangible thing.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Max.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I mean, I don't want to sound like we're making excuses,
but it is also a reality. Now, if this is
week ten and we're having a conversation about communication, it's
a completely different story, right it is. It is still
just week two and you are dealing with a ton
of moving parts. So there is some there is some
(16:12):
rhyme to that reason. It's not a complete blanket excuse.
You know, we're all new guys out here, We're losing
our communicators, We're changing green dot helmets. Like you know
this better than anybody. That's just the reality of the
National Football League. You're gonna have a lot of Sundays
where nothing is going your way, where nothing's going according
to plan, and that's when you just got to ma
gui for it and figure it out and find a
(16:32):
way to get it done. But it is more understandable
when this happens in week two, in the face of
a ton of injuries, having some communication issues. It just
can't be happening in week ten, week twelve, you know,
as we get into October here and closer to Halloween
and all these things, that that is understandable in some ways.
(16:53):
It's not excusable, but it's understandable. But it needs to
get ironed out. It needs to get moving in the
right direction this week because hey, newsflash, you know you
mentioned it. We heard the injury update from Mike Tomlin yesterday.
It doesn't sound like they're getting a ton of reinforcements
anytime soon. They got to kind of they got to
work with what they got at this.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Point, absolutely, And I think that's where it gets really
frustrating when you're thinking, when you're thinking about that, because
it's like, man, this depth that we've touted, that we've
depended on for so long is now tested. It's now
(17:35):
being pushed to the brink, and you know, it's a
tough situation, you know, to deal with, but everybody's gonna
have to do it. And I can tell you this,
I would rather it happened at the beginning of the
season than the end of the season like it has
in years past. Right, if we're going to have a
mea culpa moment here, let's go ahead, fallow on the
sword and say let's get it out the way now.
(17:56):
You know, it's different if we if we were the
La Chargers right now, right where you have three divisional
games to start the season. He's a bad place to be,
right right. You know, it's like, oh crap, But we don't.
We're not in that situation. You know, we had the
Jets to come off the beginning. We take the victory there,
(18:17):
and then this is essentially the extra game, the seventeenth
game I call it because it's a non common, non
conference opponent that we're playing that's a one off, so
there's no direct measurement against the rest of your division,
like Cincinnati's not playing them, Cleveland's not playing them, and
(18:38):
Baltimore's not playing them. So when it comes down to it,
it only matters in the win lost column and it
doesn't get into your December tie breakers that you had
this type of game, and let's face it, it was
a matchup nightmare because it was back to back weeks
where you had a team that had a good run
defense and loves to run the ball because of what
(19:01):
their quarterback situations are. So you look at that, don't.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Look don't look now, don't look now, Max, But you're
about to see that for the third straight week in
New England on Sunday exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
That's the other thing. But New England actually has it
has a pretty good pass rush. Like they went and
got Mandy Williams, they went and got Harold Perkins, so
you have that to deal with as well. You know,
those are two very skilled pass rushers that you're going
to be going up against. So I look at that
and I'm like, oh man, okay, so we're we're so
you've got to stomp this out. You've got to figure
(19:33):
out a way to make this not an issue for
three weeks in a row, because once you've put it
on tape, it takes a month to wipe that away,
and teams that might not even be that good at
rushing are going to try and rush on you. So,
you know, we look at that. The Patriots are up
this week another team that really wants to run the
football and wants to establish the run early, and they
(19:54):
want to play tight defense. It's a Mike Rabel signature,
and it's a team that, or I should say it
a coach at a philosophy that Mike Tomlin and company
should be used to. Right, Yes and yes, and you've
you just you've got to have some new schemes. You've
got to you've got to freshen some things up offensively
(20:14):
and defensively to get that done. But I digress. We're
gonna go ahead, step aside and take a break, and
we're gonna come back with more you just got to
talk about. We'll turn our attention to the offensive side
of the ball. We come back here inside the locker
room with King of Starks here on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
This is in the locker room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at shop
dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Oh, right back inside the locker room, and I have
to tell you. You know, it's it's always awkward on
a Wednesday, right, It's already the middle of the week.
We're just getting practices in. We start a little bit
early in the show and you just you kind of
wonder where you kind of sit because we've talked about,
(21:18):
we've postulated and we've broken down kind of what went
wrong in the game on Sunday and you're waiting for
the preview of the week, but you have to see, hey,
who's participating. You know, what is the first round of
the looks going to be, what is the game plan?
How are you going to fix the problems? And you
(21:38):
realize they're not going to you know, today's the first
day to do that. This is the first day of
New England and kind of figuring out kind of what
the rundown is, and we talked about, you know, offensively,
there were some issues as well, and I think you
know a lot of people point to one specific play,
but there was a host of plays. There was a
(22:00):
host of bus in this game because you know, you
don't want to waste some of the some of the
Aaron Rodgers magic so to speak, wes you know, and
they want to talk about that play where he's rolling
to his right and just absolutely throws a cold rope
to Pat Fryer move down the field. Oh a thing
of beauty. Right, So we hadn't seen and the effortless
(22:23):
nature of it, you know, and I think for a
lot of people like, ah, he's old, he can't. But
he was moving around pretty well. Now, granted he did
walk into a couple of those sacks when he's trying
to climb the pocket, and you know, thinking that that's
a safe that's a safe place, and for most pocket quarterbacks,
that's supposed to be the safe place. Right, your center
and your two guards, yeah, are responsible for the depth
of the pocket, and your tackles are responsible for the
(22:46):
width of the pocket. How wide can he move left
to right? And the center and two guards are responsible
how far he can step up? And you know, as
a traditional quarterback, you naturally think step up and in
and you can deliver it because everything's around you, right,
it's a picket fence. And we're still working on that
picket fence for our offense, offensive line, and these guys
(23:10):
are you know, just like we've talked about all the
issues on the defense, you know, there's new, there's new
faces on an offensive line. I mean, granted that Fate
the names aren't new, but their positions are new. And yeah,
you know you're you're dealing with a rookie plus in
Troy Fatano. Let's just call it what it is, right,
he did not play a significant amount of time a
(23:30):
year ago. UH could have, but injury sidelined him. Progerc
Jones playing a brand newnes I thought project actually played
a lot better. You know, a lot of people wanted to,
you know, wanted to crucify him after week one. But
week two I saw a punch I saw, I saw,
I saw tenacity. I saw a willingness to just fight
with the guy. And that's one thing that's a step
(23:52):
up for week one to week two. And I said,
you know, it's gonna be five weeks before I can
really give you an assessment on him. But I felt
like Arrow pointed back up for Progerc Joneses and his protection.
You know. But I have to say the interior was
the struggle this time, and this is where the front
liners were right for for Seattle, they had some known
guys on the edge. A little long in the tooth
(24:13):
was still very effective. In Leonard Williams and DeMarcus Lawrence.
But you know, Jaron Reid can go, Derreck Hall can go. Right,
you know, we byran Murphy, the second high round draft
pick that can go. So when you're talking about where
this is going to be the strength of this defense
and the teeth of this defense was going to be
in its front four and its front seven, and Ernest
(24:34):
Jones can go, Terrese Knight can go. Young dude very aggressive.
So yeah, oh I forgot boy a mafe as well.
That that was your second wave guy. So you had
a good internal rotation and that's that's that's one where
you're like, man, you know, it was a challenge and
it was a good challenge for this young group. But man,
(24:56):
you know some of the victories, I mean some of
the stuff it was like, man, and it looked good,
then all of a sudden it didn't. And as soon
as you've made a decision to pick a hole those
guys and learned how to you know, they disengaged and
offensive line has had some tough duties and I get
in and some of the blocks were tough in the concepts,
but man, that was that was that was a tough
(25:18):
affair when you saw what they did against like a
Quinn Williams and were able to create some opportunities. But
Aaron just you know, didn't have the time that you
would want him to have. Offensive line was you know,
handling a lot of the stuff. It just wasn't enough
of it in the key moments. And that run game
has to keep coming along, it has to keep coming along.
(25:40):
I'm gonna stress this until they do it or this
season is over, Wes, But I don't want to see
two point stances by the entire offensive line minus the center.
He kind of has to have his hand in the
ground since he has the football with the guy under center.
It's just it's a it's a schematic leverage disagreement that
(26:05):
I have philosophically. And listen, I know a lot of
these guys come from come from programs where gun gun
gun is life. Right. You know, we're in shot gun,
we're in pistol, and you need to be in two
point because a guy can see it better than you can.
He knows that he has a better probability of success
when you're under center. And I've talked to numerous defensive guys,
(26:26):
I've played its numerous defensive guys. It is way more
confusing when a quarterback is under center and a back
is in the eye formation or directly behind him, because
all all of their keys are open like that. Like
it's it's like picking a piano and telling you to
play what was that third note in Beethoven's Knife Symphony? Right,
(26:49):
They're like, uh uh, whack oh?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Was that the seventh?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Was that the seventh or the ninth? I don't remember.
Are we in the treble cliff line or were reading
the base left alone? I don't know. Is this a
minor or a major? I can't guess, right, But when
you're in shotgun and a back makes a declaration to
either side of him, they know they could cut Okay, well,
(27:16):
it's not any of these white keys, so it's got
to be the black keys. And what are these what
are these black keys? You know on the left side
of the piano. I've got, so you're able to like
cut stuff down mentally, But when you're under center, it's
the whole piano. And when you go on a two point,
you're giving up your leverage in that moment. And so
(27:40):
that's the frustrating part when we're talking about not getting
pushed getting knocked back. Simple fix. Put your hand in
the dirt. Put your hand in the dirt. That's it.
Three points of contact in the ground pre snap. That
is what Seattle did. That is what the Jets did,
and we could all argue all of them had successful
(28:01):
running games. Right.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Oh, yeah, so that's where you're frustrated.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, and so that's where I get frustrated. And yes,
you cut down the rushing yardage number defensively from week
one to week two, but you still had one hundred
yard rusher. So it's like, you know, six and one hand,
half a dozen in the other. But for us, we're
still looking. We're still searching for that first one hundred
ard rusher. Now, now I will say this, Jaalen Warren
(28:28):
all purpose yards one hundred and thirty three. So yeah,
they figured out ways to get the ball in his
hands because they knew that he's a problem when he
gets in the open field. And of course that's sixty
five yard and the longest of his career was a
thing of beauty. But it shouldn't be so sparsely in between.
You should have a solid run game that gets you
four yards to carry consistently so that you don't put
(28:51):
stress on your quarterback when it comes to the third
media or second and medium, and you can make that
a third and short, and now the whole playbook still
available to you. Now you're dealing in a place of advantage.
But when you're at third and eight, third and eleven,
third and seven, third and twelve, it's tough because there's
only so many plays you can run and there's only
(29:12):
so many options that they're not going to start getting
a beat on you. And that happened way too often
in this game. And it started out at the beginning.
Remember we had we had to convert a lot of
a lot of long and long third downs to get
the field goal to start the game. So that's where
it's a problem for me. And it kind of like,
what what did you see offensively? Wes?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Well, A couple things for you, Max, I think everything
you're saying there is spot on. And let me let
me be the dork who gives you some numbers to
back it up.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Okay, nothing wrong with that. We love we love dorks
and numbers.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I still haven't found the number from this week, but
the number from week one against the Jets. Jalen Warren
his first contact faced was an average of negative point
three yards, so he is not even getting back to
the line of scrimmage before he faces his average contact
negative point three yards, whereas for brese Hall, his average
(30:10):
first contact was one point six yards past the line
of scrimmage. Max, I'm not great at math. Okay, I
went to WVU. We do moonshine and Pepperoni rolls and
beaten the pit Panthers. Okay, we don't do math, but
even I can figure out an add up. That's nearly
a two yard difference. That is massive over the course
of the game, one team's running back having nearly two
(30:32):
yards in aggregate more of space before he's facing his
first contact from the defense. Again, that's from the Jets game.
I've been trying to find that number for Seattle. Haven't
found it yet, but if I had to guess, i'd
imagine it was pretty similar. And Max, you talk about that,
you know those starts on first down, Like I can,
I can hear our brother, Craig Woofley's voice echoing in
(30:52):
my mind. You gotta get four yards on first down,
four yards on first down, and we're ahead of schedule.
Baby right. Wolf used to say that all the time.
You know the NFL Next Gen Stats. They here's how
they kind of break down and describe a successful play.
First down, a successful play is four yards or more, Okay,
that's that's a success. Second down, it's half the yardage
(31:15):
of second down. So if it's second and six, if
you get three or more yards, that's a success. If
it's second and eight, you get four or more yards,
that's a success. So four yards on first down or
more is a success than half or more of the
yards on second down as a success. And then obviously
NFL Next Gen Stats, it just defines a successful third
(31:35):
down as did you convert or not, did you extend
the drive or not. It doesn't matter if it's third
in inches or if it's third and fifteen. A successful
third down by their metrics is converting and moving the sticks.
The Steelers offense on Sunday against Seattle Max had a
thirty three percent offensive success rate that was fourth worst
(31:55):
in the National Football League. That just shows you that
far too often they are getting behind the sticks on
first down, behind the sticks on second down, and then
in very difficult situations to convert on third down. And
there is obviously a ton that goes into that. But
I think you and I I know you do with
your background and listen, I've been molded in this industry
(32:18):
by you and Wolf and Touch and a lot of
offensive linemen. Okay, that it all starts in the trenches.
Like we can talk about all of the Steeler's symptoms,
but the diagnosis is on both sides of the ball.
They're not winning in the trenches enough, and a lot
of other things have to change and get better too.
But I think it's the same church, different pew of
(32:39):
the conversation we were just having about the defense for
the Steelers offense. So many of your woes begin in
the trenches, and so much of what you need to
do better will, I think start to fall in place
whenever those five get moving in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, I'm a complete agree, And so I think you
know you have to you have to be in a
position where you can you can at least re establish
the line of scrimmage. I think that's where the biggest
part of this was was that they weren't able to
re establish this line of scrimmage like you would expect
them to, and so that's where the frustration kind of
(33:18):
kind of looms large in this moment because you're like, man,
these guys, I know they could do it like I
see these see I've seen these guys do it in
a multitude of different ways, and it's just it's not
clicking just yet. They're just half a second off here,
(33:39):
a foot to the left here, or to the right
in the other direction. And the tightness of this run game,
they allow too many things to like bounce to the
outside because they're not covering up the inside guys, or
they're slipping off too suit because they're getting nervous about
the flow of the backers. And it's it's little technical things.
(34:00):
And I could sit there and I can get into
the weeds and tell you about some of the footwork
things that need to be done. But really the biggest
thing is time on the job with each other. Time
on the job with each other, spending time outside of
the job with each other. The one thing you could
always say about our offensive line when I played, we
were thick as thieves, right, we rolled over. If one went,
(34:22):
we all went. And that's just how our group evolved. Now,
early on, it was talent, right my first couple of years,
the most talented, studious dudes, because Marvel Smith kept the
most intricate notebook of notes I've ever seen in my life.
And it was written and like it felt like size
two font Like he would write two things per line
(34:46):
on college ruled paper. That's what his notebook was. So
just imagine the meticulous nature to fill that whole notebook
in a season. Then you had Alan Fan who was
a genius, Jeff Hardings brilliant, and these dudes. You have
to remember early on in Bisical they called the defense
(35:07):
for Ben. They set the mic, we we and we
and we changed the hots for Ben our first three
years in the league. That's how smart this offensive line was.
And Kendall Simmons and I were quote unquote the younger
guys on the line, and we were the hammers, you know,
we when we did when there was an analysis that
was done by the NFL. This is pre PFF. I know,
(35:29):
I'm going back to the dark ages, right, uh, pre PFF,
pre analytics. But the NFL, you know, had a report
we were the number three side of the ball in
all of the NFL and rushing Kendall Simmons, so the
right side of our offensive line number three out of
the entire league, and we think about all those backs
(35:51):
in the league back then, the Shawn Alexanders of the world.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Right, oh yeah, almost like a glory day of running.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
William Green. I mean, you know it was you know,
everybody had somebody that that was a hammer and l
tam Man, yo El Ladany and Tom. I mean there
was there was dudes all over the place. Fred Taylor, right.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Not not not too far away from Adrian Peterson as
well too. It's coming to a lead.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Was Ap wasn't far behind, but yes, Stephen Jackson for
the Rams, right, I mean there was a lot of
there was a lot of good dude.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Priest Priest Holmes, Priest.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Holmes for the Kansas City. I mean, you could just
keep we could keep going. And I think that's and
so there was there was that dichotomy. And then as
it shifted as I became an older guy, because I
was I was a second year guy with all those vets,
then it became our unit was young, and you know
(36:48):
when Jeff retired, you know, we had Sean Mayhon for
a year, then we got Justin Hartwick and so when
Justin came, Willie's coming online, Chris Kublano's coming on, and
we were a younger, feistier group that wanted to fight everybody.
So it was like it was like, okay, all right,
(37:09):
every fight's the street fight, got it? Every snap is
you know, elbows and and and other parts of the body. Anyways,
I'm not gonna say that adage goes, but you know,
but what we did so well. We weren't the most
technically sound, and we weren't. We weren't the most like.
(37:30):
We weren't we and when I say smartest relative right,
we weren't a group. But because we knew each other
and we had good FBI football intelligence, we worked well together.
We spent a lot of time, so we knew what
each other's idiosyncrasies were. We knew what our little traits were,
We knew what our quirks were. We knew what we
could change in our terminology because it was so basic
(37:53):
that the defense knew knows what a double, a triple
and a single block is. They know they know what
a slip is. That you know, they they know what
these trade blocks are. They know all of this terminology.
So we had to get creative, and we couldn't say
those things. So the defense didn't get a beat on
us because we knew if we gave each other a
certain look. You heard the play call, we already know
(38:14):
what our assignment is. We could get a little I,
little nod, little grunt, you know, little grunt. We start
using different languages, you know, we I mean, we we
all took intro to Spanish and you know, and it
kind of knew intro to French, you know, so we
could use some words there that that could throw throw
them off. We had a thing we called sugar. Nobody
(38:36):
knows what sugar is, and that just meant, hey, if
it's looking confusing or we think we're about to get
a twist, take two sets off the ball and let
it clear up for you. Because a defensive lineman, if
they're running a TE or an E T or an
NT game, call it nut ton and TE and E
T twists. We we knew what they were going to do,
(38:56):
but we didn't know how it was going to call.
If the tackle was coming first, the noses first, the
end of the tach. You know, we're trying to figure
it out. So we just say sugar and get off
the ball and let it let it play out in
front of us and then we'd attack because we knew
all of it, all of us. We all worked out together,
so we all had to do handgripper exercises, We all
had to do stuff together, and we and we hung
out together outside of work. We pick a house every Thursday,
(39:20):
watch films like these are the things that kind of
fast tracked us and what allowed us to be a
good unit. And that's where I think they just have
to spend that time together. They just haven't had that
requisite time. It's a lot different now to hang out
versus when I was younger, we could hang out. You know,
every phone was not TMZ on demand, you know, with
a recorder and a video camera and everything. So you know,
(39:43):
it was like we got to actually be normal to
a degree in a city where you have all these
professional teams. So you know, I'm not making excuses for them.
I'm just simply saying it takes more than what people think.
You can't just put five people together and expect them
to get along immediately. Because I could, I could say, hey,
let's let's go into every every one of those buildings downtown.
(40:06):
Let's just let's just go run through the cubicles. See
how close. You know your neighbor. Yep, that's essentially what
it is. It takes time, it takes effort, so you know,
not to make any excuses, but I'm gonna go ahead.
We're gonna step aside one more time so we can
get this next little short segment. And of course you know,
you know what Wednesday is, and you know it the
second hour.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Oh can't wait for wex baby.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
That's right, So we'll be back here with more inside
of the locker room. Here are Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
This is in the locker room with King and Stars
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at shop
dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
All right, back inside the locker room here, and we
have some Steeler roster moves and some new news from
the Steelers and Wes Steeler take it away.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Yeah, so some changes to the active roster and to
the practice squad. I think we probably all expected this
coming with some of the injury news, but here's what
the Steelers just announced. Minutes ago. Isaiah Loudermilk has been
placed on IR. With that, Demarvin Leal has been called
up to the active roster, so Loudermilk to IR lel
(41:27):
from the practice squad up to the active roster, and
then the Steelers have also terminated from the practice squad
rakeem Jarrett the wide receiver, and JJ Gallbreath the rookie
tight end. They have added to the practice squad linebacker
Juwan Bentley, who is also a former Patriot. They added
(41:47):
wide receiver Isaiah Hodgens, who's a former New York Giant.
Those reports were out there yesterday that that was coming.
And they also added Matt Sokell, a second year tight
end out of Michigan State. Know some some movement there
to the active roster and to the practice squad.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, and that that's that's a lot of a lot
of new faces once again, and I think it just
kind of goes with kind of where where we're at
as a team with the health of guys. The Marvin
Leal obviously a guy who knows the the organization, knows
the way of of doing things, the Steeler way. The
(42:25):
Marvin Leel you know, was pressed into service a year
ago and did well until he got injured. So he's
a guy who could provide that outside linebacker slash interior
defensive line support. He can play both to play out
of two point play out of three point stance, you know,
Juwan Bentley, I think is a corresponding move for Malie Harrison,
(42:47):
knowing that you need some need some experienced guys that
could that could that could step in and play if
we have you know, the the green dot carousel like
we did last week, three different guys or the green
dot during the game. Uh So, so you kind of
look at that, you understand why, and there being not
a not a ton of injuries to the offensive side,
(43:08):
that's why you could kind of risk some of those
offensive guys for right now to get more defensive help
because we are in need. So kind of look at
those and you know, they all make sense. Nothing's out
of left field, nothing's like stockpiling at that moment. This
is all necessity at this point for the team, right
I think that's how we kind of look at it
to yep. So with that, we're going to step aside
(43:31):
and we will be back with more. We got Jim
Wexel on the other end, Mike Cambell always got to
make a stop buy on a Wednesday. We'll be back
with more here inside of the locker room with King
of Starks and Euler here on the Steelers Audio Network
This is in the locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at shop
dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
All right, good morning, and welcome inside the locker room
with King and Starks. Let's been a little bracket around that,
and say and Euler. We have Wesley Euler sitting in
for Rob King as he still has duties with the
baseball world, So it is good. How you doing this morning, Wes?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
You know, I think that I think that Rob King
gave me the sniffles or something, Max, because you know,
my nose is a little runny, throats, throats a little scratchy,
or I don't know. Maybe maybe it was just all
that hooting and holler and I did down in Morgantown
on saturd But I'm good, Max, always, uh, you know,
I always always enjoy the opportunities to get to to
fill in and chop it up with you for a
little bit here.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's right, a little backyard brawl. Fever, never hurt anybody, right,
especially Buddy way to do it.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
That's a either I'm not going to recover from for
a long time partner.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well he at least four years, right, you.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Get the obviously, Yeah, I was just gonna say, obviously.
You know, if I could, like you know, wave my
wand and and and Pitt and w V would play
every year, and college football would just go back to
being a regional sport. Imagine that you wouldn't have U C.
L A And Rutgers playing in the same conference. But
if there was ever a time, if there was ever
(01:46):
a time for the backyard Brawl to take a four
year hiatus off, the back of Saturday certainly would be
the perfect time that I would choose as well.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh absolutely, Man. That was my first brawl and it
was It was a dandy, you know. And I think
that's what you missing rivalry games because you can't just
predict just because one team lost the previous week, the
other team's been steamrolling the other team for the for
you know, for the past couple of weeks. You can't.
You can't predict that type of stuff, like when it's
a rivalry and like you said, the close proximity of
(02:16):
these schools. Probably a lot of players that came from
ones you know that that used to be teammates in
high school all of a sudden become enemies. And you know,
that's the fun part of this game. And yeah, you're right,
we've lost that regionality in those moments, but glad that
we'll get it. And then once it does come back
in four years, it'll be an eight year stint. It'll
(02:37):
be eight year agreement, which is awesome.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yes, so yes, and as you know, as you know too,
in that time period, there will be more conference realignment.
There will be more conference moving and shaking. That's just
gonna be the nature of the beast of college football.
I think the Big Ten and the SEC are only
gonna you know, add a couple more massive brands here
in the in the next you know, handful of years.
(02:59):
And so I'm hopeful by the time you know, that
eight year series runs out that West Virginia and pitt
will be in the same conference again as the Good
Lord intended. And maybe we'll be playing that game over
Thanksgiving like it like the Good Lord intended, you know,
instead of the third week in September. But yeah, certainly
was a heck of a scene and I think a
reminder of what we all love about football and college football.
(03:21):
And I'm obviously thrilled that you were there to take
it in as well.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yes, no, absolutely no. I had a blast calling that game,
and you know it, it was everything you felt. I mean,
for me, I felt like I walked in probably the
most prepared I've walked into a college football game, you know,
in any season, because I had Pitt the very previous week,
and then I had WVU to open the season, so
(03:48):
that you get Pitt WVU. It's like I've done over
half of my work before I've even started, because I've
literally seen and experienced and notated the game. So it
made for a very fun broadcast on my side. And
also it was not a horrific travel weekend as well
like it was the previous week. Try to get to
(04:09):
New Jersey.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yes, I think Morgan, Morgantown and Pittsburgh much easier than Raleigh,
Durham to New York City to New Church.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Correct. Oh my gosh, that was that was so miserable.
I'm so glass behind me. But any who, we are,
we are tuned in. That's a little bit of the Shenanigans.
We got out of the way. From the college side,
I'm sure pitt fans don't want to hear this, and
you know that they're they're probably still sulking. But the
WVU contingent that are still Steeler fans are very happy.
So we're it's like it's like a broadcast divided, you know,
(04:39):
as far as the people listening. Uh so, but no.
But I mean, you know, Wes, obviously we had coach
Tom would talk yesterday. Obviously no football are practices to
note today. We will we will get the first practice
of everybody and figuring out how you know, how to
how to write the ship from what happened on Sunday.
(05:03):
And you know, then I got sent a clip of
a kid talking about the same cover one they blew
two weeks in a row. And I'm just like, so
the world knows about all these things that you're getting
a more sophisticated football fan that is able to kind
of explain and do and figure out all this stuff.
(05:25):
But I think the biggest thing is just the injury front,
like still kind of not knowing. And you know, there's
no Isaiah louder Milk right now, there's no Alex Higsmith
right now, Derek Harmon, Deshaun Elliott still TBD, and we're hoping,
you know, Joey Porter is available this week and can
come back and kind of help the secondary and you
(05:47):
can kind of get back to that group that you
that we intended it to be. You know, It's just
it's it's unfortunate. I mean, any any big nugget that
you took away from the press conference yesterday.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah, I think just max they are, They're gonna have
to figure out some i think very clear cut issues
on defense, the injuries that they are dealing with right now,
and in the face of those kind of how it
is only two games, but I think a very clear
cut game plan from the Jets and the Seahawks about
(06:23):
how they are attacking the Steelers defense currently being a
ton of over the field, middle of the field usage
in the pass game. I believe that number was slightly
over forty percent for Seattle on Sunday middle of the
field targets in the pass game, which is a massive
number by NFL standards. And then I'm sure you've seen
the charts as well too. The Jets and the Seahawks
they're just running left, man, they are just running away
(06:45):
from TJ.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Watt.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Over ninety percent of the time runs are to the
left side of the offense's line of scrimmage. When you
combine I think those two clear cut areas that teams
have chosen through the first two games to attack this defense.
With a defense that is dealing with some significant injuries,
you just laid it out there. You're already down to
Shaun Elliott and Joey Porter Junior coming into this game.
(07:09):
Then you lose high Smith and Loudermilk Early Patrick Queen
and Peyton Wilson both miss snaps and series at different
portions of time with injuries as well too. I mean Max,
the Steelers played five defensive backs against Seattle on Sunday.
All five of them were not on the team last year,
and if they go to a sixth it's probably gonna
(07:30):
be jabro Peppers. He was not on the team last year.
He just got added. Even a guy like Chuck Clark
was not with the team at the start of prese
or at the start of training camp. Part of me
he had to hop on that moving train in the
middle of training camp. So it as you have been dealt,
I think the worst hand possible with the defense. Your
first round pick hasn't played. Cam Hayward needed a little
(07:51):
bit more time to get up the speed with just
his age and the lack of work that he did
understandably in training camp in the preseason. Teams are now
staying away from TJ. Watt. You've got a secondary where
your only two returning starters have both been out. I
think the issues are you know that. That's the good
part of it, Max, is there's I don't think it
(08:13):
like you don't need to go to the doctor and
talk about your symptoms and figure out what the diagnosis is.
I think all of that is pretty clear in front
of you. But now it's just time to attack it
and start to figure out some solutions this week.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Oh, you're You're absolutely right, and and that's one to
really think on. And I think Q on is that
your entire secondary was not here a year ago right
now as it stands. And the guys you're asking to
kind of man the ship or man the traditions, they
don't know the traditions, right, They're not a part of that.
(08:46):
They don't understand and like you said, they're just trying
to play. And I think communication is also key when
you haven't spent that physical time with guys, the communication,
the feel for what guys do just becomes that much harder.
And so I think that's where you kind of have
to be a little more flexible, and you really need
to scheme your weaknesses, you know, in those moments, and
(09:10):
I think you're absolutely right running left the entire time.
I mean, let's not even you know, I just I
still get PTSD from that Kenneth Walker just toss crack.
They were admitting defeat and say, hey, we're just gonna
settle for three here, and they get a touchdown off
of the toskind you untouched unabated to the end zone.
(09:35):
And that's just a backbreaker mentally to know that we
just we can't guard that quote unquote right defensive side,
but left offensive side of the line. And of course
who gets injured on that side? Alex high Smith, who
would be your other defender for that, who plays to
run really well, and you know I left to Nick Herbig,
who Nick Herbig is best suited when you're in sub
(09:58):
package and you you know he is a depth pass rusher,
but at the point he can get tossed up, you know,
with a double team and he can get blocked and
that that's that's where that's where it becomes an issue.
And you know, you'd like to think you had an
insurance policy with a Bilik Harrison, who would be a
bigger guy who could bludgeon that that that end of
the line. He's out as well. We don't have him,
(10:21):
so you're left with that or Jack Sawyer and Jack
is you know, playing a lot of t J. Watts
break time stuff, and we also went we also went
three outside backers a number of times in that game
as well. I don't know if you knew that. So
you know, we did have cam with Nick, Jack and
TJ on the field at the same time and some
of the sub packs of just trying to change it
(10:41):
up for the pass rush and trying to get some smaller, faster,
lighter guys out there, and you know, we had marginal
success with that. It's a couple of incompletions when they
were out there. And then of course there was one
where it was the crossing route in the middle of
the field at forty percent, you're talking about getting attacked. Uh,
you know Cooper Cup you know he feasted in the
(11:04):
middle of the field last week you know, just when
we thought, okay, Jackson Smith and Jig was gonna get
sixty five percent of the targets because that's what he
got week one against San Francisco, then it was it
was the Cooper Cup, Elijah or Royo a j. Barner
show because Jackson Smith and Jigbulb was kind of it
was taken up and and on that on that touchdown
(11:24):
to Horton, that was the safety and the corner both
trying to bracket Jackson Smith and Jigball on the crosser
going to the offensive left defensive right, yes, and the
and Jalen was manned on Horton going across the other way,
(11:44):
and Horton had the inside track, so you were never
gonna beat him. The safety needed to come just to
blunt that. Uh, in that situation couldn't because we were
single high and we were manned up everywhere else. And guys,
when you know in cover one, when guys block, they
add right your linebackers and your man coverage guys your nickel,
and so that that put tremendous stretch on us. And
(12:07):
that's two weeks in a row. So you have to
figure out an answer for that. I mean, I would like
to think that cover three is probably that answer in
that moment, or you know, or running some type of
three man concept to to try and help that and
not bring in that blitch, just kind of manning and
if they block you zone, so you have that center
fielder or that you know, that traffic cop so to speak,
(12:29):
that could that could at least carry the guy if
they tried and throw underneath and then create, you know,
an opportunity where you create that three man fence along
the goal line or at depth, and then you carry
a guy late and you're keeping everything in front of
you and not behind you in those moments because it's
tough when you run a two man concept you have
three guys out there, you still lose, right because you're
(12:50):
force of that safety to make a decision in the
middle of the field, and the safety is going to
go with the known assailant, which is number eleven, and
you let Horden just creep through underneath because who who
is he right? And so is he ends up coming
back to hurts you. So it's a tough situation. And
you know, I kind of talked about this with Rob
on our show Wes, So I'll bring you up to speed.
(13:11):
It was more so the fact that you know, the
team was was in a position where they were down.
It was hot, and like you said, communication was at
a premium, and we didn't really get the communication. And
that's one thing, you know, I kind of look at it.
If we're gonna id the easiest thing, the easiest thing
is communication. Because I could go back to another play
(13:35):
that the Seahawks ran twice in the same drive. You
know it was it was a little it was a
little seam curl by the tight end and they were
running They're running twins concept on either side, so two
receivers on each side, and you know, Patrick Queen has
that running back that's on the left, but the tight
end comes over in motion and sits in the other wing.
(13:58):
He switches it off with Jack to say, Jack, here
take this to try and create his own concept. But
then he keeps his eyes on the running back at
the last second to make sure that Jack, who's a rookie,
has actually taken the assignment, and he's late to his
own assignment. And that's the touchdown. Just a little scene
curl right there booth because he looks right and then
(14:19):
he tries to come back left. He's about six inches
you know, off because he looked off to the right.
And so that's it's like those little things where it's
communication and trust and that's only built over time in
game time situations. And you know, hopefully now he'll realize
now I have to trust him. I gave him a call,
he acknowledged it. Let the rookie do the rookie right,
(14:39):
and let me do my job because I can't. I
can't be both places at once. It's too much field
to cover, right, And you don't want to get into
the guessing game. You just want to do your concept,
run your position, and man your area and not have
to do that. I think that and that's what the
Steels are struggling with so many new faces, so many
(15:00):
new people. The trust and the chemistry is not there.
And you know, I don't harp on it as much
as I do offensive line chemistry because usually you know,
athleticism outweighs it. But like you said, rib injury for
pat uh Peyton Peyton, you know, at some type of
shoulder thing. So they were playing hobbled, you know, and
(15:21):
compromise the whole game, and all you had was Cole
Holkom and Carson Brunner left.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Right, and Max they had to change they had to
change the green dot guy the green dot helmet multiple times.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Oh gosh, yeah, it was telephone.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
It was it was like a ring ring ring banana phone.
Who's got the helmet here? And you know Deshaun Elliott
is a huge communicator for that secondary as well too,
and you're down him already, and then you're switching green
dot helmets. And that's a real tangible thing.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Max.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I mean, I don't want to sound like we're making excuses,
but it is also a reality. Now, if this is
week ten and we're having a conversation about communication, it's
a completely different story, right it is. It is still
just week two and you are dealing with a ton
of moving parts. So there is some there is some
(16:12):
rhyme to that reason. It's not a complete blanket excuse.
You know, we're all new guys out here, We're losing
our communicators, We're changing green dot helmets. Like you know
this better than anybody. That's just the reality of the
National Football League. You're gonna have a lot of Sundays
where nothing is going your way, where nothing's going according
to plan, and that's when you just got to ma
gui for it and figure it out and find a
(16:32):
way to get it done. But it is more understandable
when this happens in week two, in the face of
a ton of injuries, having some communication issues. It just
can't be happening in week ten, week twelve, you know,
as we get into October here and closer to Halloween
and all these things, that that is understandable in some ways.
(16:53):
It's not excusable, but it's understandable. But it needs to
get ironed out. It needs to get moving in the
right direction this week because hey, newsflash, you know you
mentioned it. We heard the injury update from Mike Tomlin yesterday.
It doesn't sound like they're getting a ton of reinforcements
anytime soon. They got to kind of they got to
work with what they got at this.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Point, absolutely, And I think that's where it gets really
frustrating when you're thinking, when you're thinking about that, because
it's like, man, this depth that we've touted, that we've
depended on for so long is now tested. It's now
(17:35):
being pushed to the brink, and you know, it's a
tough situation, you know, to deal with, but everybody's gonna
have to do it. And I can tell you this,
I would rather it happened at the beginning of the
season than the end of the season like it has
in years past. Right, if we're going to have a
mea culpa moment here, let's go ahead, fallow on the
sword and say let's get it out the way now.
(17:56):
You know, it's different if we if we were the
La Chargers right now, right where you have three divisional
games to start the season. He's a bad place to be,
right right. You know, it's like, oh crap, But we don't.
We're not in that situation. You know, we had the
Jets to come off the beginning. We take the victory there,
(18:17):
and then this is essentially the extra game, the seventeenth
game I call it because it's a non common, non
conference opponent that we're playing that's a one off, so
there's no direct measurement against the rest of your division,
like Cincinnati's not playing them, Cleveland's not playing them, and
(18:38):
Baltimore's not playing them. So when it comes down to it,
it only matters in the win lost column and it
doesn't get into your December tie breakers that you had
this type of game, and let's face it, it was
a matchup nightmare because it was back to back weeks
where you had a team that had a good run
defense and loves to run the ball because of what
(19:01):
their quarterback situations are. So you look at that, don't.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Look don't look now, don't look now, Max, But you're
about to see that for the third straight week in
New England on Sunday exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
That's the other thing. But New England actually has it
has a pretty good pass rush. Like they went and
got Mandy Williams, they went and got Harold Perkins, so
you have that to deal with as well. You know,
those are two very skilled pass rushers that you're going
to be going up against. So I look at that
and I'm like, oh man, okay, so we're we're so
you've got to stomp this out. You've got to figure
(19:33):
out a way to make this not an issue for
three weeks in a row, because once you've put it
on tape, it takes a month to wipe that away,
and teams that might not even be that good at
rushing are going to try and rush on you. So,
you know, we look at that. The Patriots are up
this week another team that really wants to run the
football and wants to establish the run early, and they
(19:54):
want to play tight defense. It's a Mike Rabel signature,
and it's a team that, or I should say it
a coach at a philosophy that Mike Tomlin and company
should be used to. Right, Yes and yes, and you've
you just you've got to have some new schemes. You've
got to you've got to freshen some things up offensively
(20:14):
and defensively to get that done. But I digress. We're
gonna go ahead, step aside and take a break, and
we're gonna come back with more you just got to
talk about. We'll turn our attention to the offensive side
of the ball. We come back here inside the locker
room with King of Starks here on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
This is in the locker room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at shop
dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Oh, right back inside the locker room, and I have
to tell you. You know, it's it's always awkward on
a Wednesday, right, It's already the middle of the week.
We're just getting practices in. We start a little bit
early in the show and you just you kind of
wonder where you kind of sit because we've talked about,
(21:18):
we've postulated and we've broken down kind of what went
wrong in the game on Sunday and you're waiting for
the preview of the week, but you have to see, hey,
who's participating. You know, what is the first round of
the looks going to be, what is the game plan?
How are you going to fix the problems? And you
(21:38):
realize they're not going to you know, today's the first
day to do that. This is the first day of
New England and kind of figuring out kind of what
the rundown is, and we talked about, you know, offensively,
there were some issues as well, and I think you
know a lot of people point to one specific play,
but there was a host of plays. There was a
(22:00):
host of bus in this game because you know, you
don't want to waste some of the some of the
Aaron Rodgers magic so to speak, wes you know, and
they want to talk about that play where he's rolling
to his right and just absolutely throws a cold rope
to Pat Fryer move down the field. Oh a thing
of beauty. Right, So we hadn't seen and the effortless
(22:23):
nature of it, you know, and I think for a
lot of people like, ah, he's old, he can't. But
he was moving around pretty well. Now, granted he did
walk into a couple of those sacks when he's trying
to climb the pocket, and you know, thinking that that's
a safe that's a safe place, and for most pocket quarterbacks,
that's supposed to be the safe place. Right, your center
and your two guards, yeah, are responsible for the depth
of the pocket, and your tackles are responsible for the
(22:46):
width of the pocket. How wide can he move left
to right? And the center and two guards are responsible
how far he can step up? And you know, as
a traditional quarterback, you naturally think step up and in
and you can deliver it because everything's around you, right,
it's a picket fence. And we're still working on that
picket fence for our offense, offensive line, and these guys
(23:10):
are you know, just like we've talked about all the
issues on the defense, you know, there's new, there's new
faces on an offensive line. I mean, granted that Fate
the names aren't new, but their positions are new. And yeah,
you know you're you're dealing with a rookie plus in
Troy Fatano. Let's just call it what it is, right,
he did not play a significant amount of time a
(23:30):
year ago. UH could have, but injury sidelined him. Progerc
Jones playing a brand newnes I thought project actually played
a lot better. You know, a lot of people wanted to,
you know, wanted to crucify him after week one. But
week two I saw a punch I saw, I saw,
I saw tenacity. I saw a willingness to just fight
with the guy. And that's one thing that's a step
(23:52):
up for week one to week two. And I said,
you know, it's gonna be five weeks before I can
really give you an assessment on him. But I felt
like Arrow pointed back up for Progerc Joneses and his protection.
You know. But I have to say the interior was
the struggle this time, and this is where the front
liners were right for for Seattle, they had some known
guys on the edge. A little long in the tooth
(24:13):
was still very effective. In Leonard Williams and DeMarcus Lawrence.
But you know, Jaron Reid can go, Derreck Hall can go. Right,
you know, we byran Murphy, the second high round draft
pick that can go. So when you're talking about where
this is going to be the strength of this defense
and the teeth of this defense was going to be
in its front four and its front seven, and Ernest
(24:34):
Jones can go, Terrese Knight can go. Young dude very aggressive.
So yeah, oh I forgot boy a mafe as well.
That that was your second wave guy. So you had
a good internal rotation and that's that's that's one where
you're like, man, you know, it was a challenge and
it was a good challenge for this young group. But man,
(24:56):
you know some of the victories, I mean some of
the stuff it was like, man, and it looked good,
then all of a sudden it didn't. And as soon
as you've made a decision to pick a hole those
guys and learned how to you know, they disengaged and
offensive line has had some tough duties and I get
in and some of the blocks were tough in the concepts,
but man, that was that was that was a tough
(25:18):
affair when you saw what they did against like a
Quinn Williams and were able to create some opportunities. But
Aaron just you know, didn't have the time that you
would want him to have. Offensive line was you know,
handling a lot of the stuff. It just wasn't enough
of it in the key moments. And that run game
has to keep coming along, it has to keep coming along.
(25:40):
I'm gonna stress this until they do it or this
season is over, Wes, But I don't want to see
two point stances by the entire offensive line minus the center.
He kind of has to have his hand in the
ground since he has the football with the guy under center.
It's just it's a it's a schematic leverage disagreement that
(26:05):
I have philosophically. And listen, I know a lot of
these guys come from come from programs where gun gun
gun is life. Right. You know, we're in shot gun,
we're in pistol, and you need to be in two
point because a guy can see it better than you can.
He knows that he has a better probability of success
when you're under center. And I've talked to numerous defensive guys,
(26:26):
I've played its numerous defensive guys. It is way more
confusing when a quarterback is under center and a back
is in the eye formation or directly behind him, because
all all of their keys are open like that. Like
it's it's like picking a piano and telling you to
play what was that third note in Beethoven's Knife Symphony? Right,
(26:49):
They're like, uh uh, whack oh?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Was that the seventh?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Was that the seventh or the ninth? I don't remember.
Are we in the treble cliff line or were reading
the base left alone? I don't know. Is this a
minor or a major? I can't guess, right, But when
you're in shotgun and a back makes a declaration to
either side of him, they know they could cut Okay, well,
(27:16):
it's not any of these white keys, so it's got
to be the black keys. And what are these what
are these black keys? You know on the left side
of the piano. I've got, so you're able to like
cut stuff down mentally, But when you're under center, it's
the whole piano. And when you go on a two point,
you're giving up your leverage in that moment. And so
(27:40):
that's the frustrating part when we're talking about not getting
pushed getting knocked back. Simple fix. Put your hand in
the dirt. Put your hand in the dirt. That's it.
Three points of contact in the ground pre snap. That
is what Seattle did. That is what the Jets did,
and we could all argue all of them had successful
(28:01):
running games. Right.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Oh, yeah, so that's where you're frustrated.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Yeah, and so that's where I get frustrated. And yes,
you cut down the rushing yardage number defensively from week
one to week two, but you still had one hundred
yard rusher. So it's like, you know, six and one hand,
half a dozen in the other. But for us, we're
still looking. We're still searching for that first one hundred
ard rusher. Now, now I will say this, Jaalen Warren
(28:28):
all purpose yards one hundred and thirty three. So yeah,
they figured out ways to get the ball in his
hands because they knew that he's a problem when he
gets in the open field. And of course that's sixty
five yard and the longest of his career was a
thing of beauty. But it shouldn't be so sparsely in between.
You should have a solid run game that gets you
four yards to carry consistently so that you don't put
(28:51):
stress on your quarterback when it comes to the third
media or second and medium, and you can make that
a third and short, and now the whole playbook still
available to you. Now you're dealing in a place of advantage.
But when you're at third and eight, third and eleven,
third and seven, third and twelve, it's tough because there's
only so many plays you can run and there's only
(29:12):
so many options that they're not going to start getting
a beat on you. And that happened way too often
in this game. And it started out at the beginning.
Remember we had we had to convert a lot of
a lot of long and long third downs to get
the field goal to start the game. So that's where
it's a problem for me. And it kind of like,
what what did you see offensively? Wes?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Well, A couple things for you, Max, I think everything
you're saying there is spot on. And let me let
me be the dork who gives you some numbers to
back it up.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Okay, nothing wrong with that. We love we love dorks
and numbers.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I still haven't found the number from this week, but
the number from week one against the Jets. Jalen Warren
his first contact faced was an average of negative point
three yards, so he is not even getting back to
the line of scrimmage before he faces his average contact
negative point three yards, whereas for brese Hall, his average
(30:10):
first contact was one point six yards past the line
of scrimmage. Max, I'm not great at math. Okay, I
went to WVU. We do moonshine and Pepperoni rolls and
beaten the pit Panthers. Okay, we don't do math, but
even I can figure out an add up. That's nearly
a two yard difference. That is massive over the course
of the game, one team's running back having nearly two
(30:32):
yards in aggregate more of space before he's facing his
first contact from the defense. Again, that's from the Jets game.
I've been trying to find that number for Seattle. Haven't
found it yet, but if I had to guess, i'd
imagine it was pretty similar. And Max, you talk about that,
you know those starts on first down, Like I can,
I can hear our brother, Craig Woofley's voice echoing in
(30:52):
my mind. You gotta get four yards on first down,
four yards on first down, and we're ahead of schedule.
Baby right. Wolf used to say that all the time.
You know the NFL Next Gen Stats. They here's how
they kind of break down and describe a successful play.
First down, a successful play is four yards or more, Okay,
that's that's a success. Second down, it's half the yardage
(31:15):
of second down. So if it's second and six, if
you get three or more yards, that's a success. If
it's second and eight, you get four or more yards,
that's a success. So four yards on first down or
more is a success than half or more of the
yards on second down as a success. And then obviously
NFL Next Gen Stats, it just defines a successful third
(31:35):
down as did you convert or not, did you extend
the drive or not. It doesn't matter if it's third
in inches or if it's third and fifteen. A successful
third down by their metrics is converting and moving the sticks.
The Steelers offense on Sunday against Seattle Max had a
thirty three percent offensive success rate that was fourth worst
(31:55):
in the National Football League. That just shows you that
far too often they are getting behind the sticks on
first down, behind the sticks on second down, and then
in very difficult situations to convert on third down. And
there is obviously a ton that goes into that. But
I think you and I I know you do with
your background and listen, I've been molded in this industry
(32:18):
by you and Wolf and Touch and a lot of
offensive linemen. Okay, that it all starts in the trenches.
Like we can talk about all of the Steeler's symptoms,
but the diagnosis is on both sides of the ball.
They're not winning in the trenches enough, and a lot
of other things have to change and get better too.
But I think it's the same church, different pew of
(32:39):
the conversation we were just having about the defense for
the Steelers offense. So many of your woes begin in
the trenches, and so much of what you need to
do better will, I think start to fall in place
whenever those five get moving in the right direction.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, I'm a complete agree, And so I think you
know you have to you have to be in a
position where you can you can at least re establish
the line of scrimmage. I think that's where the biggest
part of this was was that they weren't able to
re establish this line of scrimmage like you would expect
them to, and so that's where the frustration kind of
(33:18):
kind of looms large in this moment because you're like, man,
these guys, I know they could do it like I
see these see I've seen these guys do it in
a multitude of different ways, and it's just it's not
clicking just yet. They're just half a second off here,
(33:39):
a foot to the left here, or to the right
in the other direction. And the tightness of this run game,
they allow too many things to like bounce to the
outside because they're not covering up the inside guys, or
they're slipping off too suit because they're getting nervous about
the flow of the backers. And it's it's little technical things.
(34:00):
And I could sit there and I can get into
the weeds and tell you about some of the footwork
things that need to be done. But really the biggest
thing is time on the job with each other. Time
on the job with each other, spending time outside of
the job with each other. The one thing you could
always say about our offensive line when I played, we
were thick as thieves, right, we rolled over. If one went,
(34:22):
we all went. And that's just how our group evolved. Now,
early on, it was talent, right my first couple of years,
the most talented, studious dudes, because Marvel Smith kept the
most intricate notebook of notes I've ever seen in my life.
And it was written and like it felt like size
two font Like he would write two things per line
(34:46):
on college ruled paper. That's what his notebook was. So
just imagine the meticulous nature to fill that whole notebook
in a season. Then you had Alan Fan who was
a genius, Jeff Hardings brilliant, and these dudes. You have
to remember early on in Bisical they called the defense
(35:07):
for Ben. They set the mic, we we and we
and we changed the hots for Ben our first three
years in the league. That's how smart this offensive line was.
And Kendall Simmons and I were quote unquote the younger
guys on the line, and we were the hammers, you know,
we when we did when there was an analysis that
was done by the NFL. This is pre PFF. I know,
(35:29):
I'm going back to the dark ages, right, uh, pre PFF,
pre analytics. But the NFL, you know, had a report
we were the number three side of the ball in
all of the NFL and rushing Kendall Simmons, so the
right side of our offensive line number three out of
the entire league, and we think about all those backs
(35:51):
in the league back then, the Shawn Alexanders of the world.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Right, oh yeah, almost like a glory day of running.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
William Green. I mean, you know it was you know,
everybody had somebody that that was a hammer and l
tam Man, yo El Ladany and Tom. I mean there
was there was dudes all over the place. Fred Taylor, right.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Not not not too far away from Adrian Peterson as
well too. It's coming to a lead.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Was Ap wasn't far behind, but yes, Stephen Jackson for
the Rams, right, I mean there was a lot of
there was a lot of good dude.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Priest Priest Holmes, Priest.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Holmes for the Kansas City. I mean, you could just
keep we could keep going. And I think that's and
so there was there was that dichotomy. And then as
it shifted as I became an older guy, because I
was I was a second year guy with all those vets,
then it became our unit was young, and you know
(36:48):
when Jeff retired, you know, we had Sean Mayhon for
a year, then we got Justin Hartwick and so when
Justin came, Willie's coming online, Chris Kublano's coming on, and
we were a younger, feistier group that wanted to fight everybody.
So it was like it was like, okay, all right,
(37:09):
every fight's the street fight, got it? Every snap is
you know, elbows and and and other parts of the body. Anyways,
I'm not gonna say that adage goes, but you know,
but what we did so well. We weren't the most
technically sound, and we weren't. We weren't the most like.
(37:30):
We weren't we and when I say smartest relative right,
we weren't a group. But because we knew each other
and we had good FBI football intelligence, we worked well together.
We spent a lot of time, so we knew what
each other's idiosyncrasies were. We knew what our little traits were,
We knew what our quirks were. We knew what we
could change in our terminology because it was so basic
(37:53):
that the defense knew knows what a double, a triple
and a single block is. They know they know what
a slip is. That you know, they they know what
these trade blocks are. They know all of this terminology.
So we had to get creative, and we couldn't say
those things. So the defense didn't get a beat on
us because we knew if we gave each other a
certain look. You heard the play call, we already know
(38:14):
what our assignment is. We could get a little I,
little nod, little grunt, you know, little grunt. We start
using different languages, you know, we I mean, we we
all took intro to Spanish and you know, and it
kind of knew intro to French, you know, so we
could use some words there that that could throw throw
them off. We had a thing we called sugar. Nobody
(38:36):
knows what sugar is, and that just meant, hey, if
it's looking confusing or we think we're about to get
a twist, take two sets off the ball and let
it clear up for you. Because a defensive lineman, if
they're running a TE or an E T or an
NT game, call it nut ton and TE and E
T twists. We we knew what they were going to do,
(38:56):
but we didn't know how it was going to call.
If the tackle was coming first, the noses first, the
end of the tach. You know, we're trying to figure
it out. So we just say sugar and get off
the ball and let it let it play out in
front of us and then we'd attack because we knew
all of it, all of us. We all worked out together,
so we all had to do handgripper exercises, We all
had to do stuff together, and we and we hung
out together outside of work. We pick a house every Thursday,
(39:20):
watch films like these are the things that kind of
fast tracked us and what allowed us to be a
good unit. And that's where I think they just have
to spend that time together. They just haven't had that
requisite time. It's a lot different now to hang out
versus when I was younger, we could hang out. You know,
every phone was not TMZ on demand, you know, with
a recorder and a video camera and everything. So you know,
(39:43):
it was like we got to actually be normal to
a degree in a city where you have all these
professional teams. So you know, I'm not making excuses for them.
I'm just simply saying it takes more than what people think.
You can't just put five people together and expect them
to get along immediately. Because I could, I could say, hey,
let's let's go into every every one of those buildings downtown.
(40:06):
Let's just let's just go run through the cubicles. See
how close. You know your neighbor. Yep, that's essentially what
it is. It takes time, it takes effort, so you know,
not to make any excuses, but I'm gonna go ahead.
We're gonna step aside one more time so we can
get this next little short segment. And of course you know,
you know what Wednesday is, and you know it the
second hour.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Oh can't wait for wex baby.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
That's right, So we'll be back here with more inside
of the locker room. Here are Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
This is in the locker room with King and Stars
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at shop
dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
All right, back inside the locker room here, and we
have some Steeler roster moves and some new news from
the Steelers and Wes Steeler take it away.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Yeah, so some changes to the active roster and to
the practice squad. I think we probably all expected this
coming with some of the injury news, but here's what
the Steelers just announced. Minutes ago. Isaiah Loudermilk has been
placed on IR. With that, Demarvin Leal has been called
up to the active roster, so Loudermilk to IR lel
(41:27):
from the practice squad up to the active roster, and
then the Steelers have also terminated from the practice squad
rakeem Jarrett the wide receiver, and JJ Gallbreath the rookie
tight end. They have added to the practice squad linebacker
Juwan Bentley, who is also a former Patriot. They added
(41:47):
wide receiver Isaiah Hodgens, who's a former New York Giant.
Those reports were out there yesterday that that was coming.
And they also added Matt Sokell, a second year tight
end out of Michigan State. Know some some movement there
to the active roster and to the practice squad.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, and that that's that's a lot of a lot
of new faces once again, and I think it just
kind of goes with kind of where where we're at
as a team with the health of guys. The Marvin
Leal obviously a guy who knows the the organization, knows
the way of of doing things, the Steeler way. The
(42:25):
Marvin Leel you know, was pressed into service a year
ago and did well until he got injured. So he's
a guy who could provide that outside linebacker slash interior
defensive line support. He can play both to play out
of two point play out of three point stance, you know,
Juwan Bentley, I think is a corresponding move for Malie Harrison,
(42:47):
knowing that you need some need some experienced guys that
could that could that could step in and play if
we have you know, the the green dot carousel like
we did last week, three different guys or the green
dot during the game. Uh So, so you kind of
look at that, you understand why, and there being not
a not a ton of injuries to the offensive side,
(43:08):
that's why you could kind of risk some of those
offensive guys for right now to get more defensive help
because we are in need. So kind of look at
those and you know, they all make sense. Nothing's out
of left field, nothing's like stockpiling at that moment. This
is all necessity at this point for the team, right
I think that's how we kind of look at it
to yep. So with that, we're going to step aside
(43:31):
and we will be back with more. We got Jim
Wexel on the other end, Mike Cambell always got to
make a stop buy on a Wednesday. We'll be back
with more here inside of the locker room with King
of Starks and Euler here on the Steelers Audio Network
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