HR1: Roster Construction

Max and Rob dissect the latest roster moves made my the Steelers as they cut down the roster to reach 53 by late Tuesday afternoon.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello and welcome inside the Locker Room with King and Stars,
presented by your neighborhood Ford Store on the Steerler's Audio
Network alongside Max Starks.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Rob King Max. How are you today, my friend?

Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm doing well. How are you doing today?

Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm great, beautiful day here in Western Pa, cool blue skies.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
What time?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
I always I asked you this the other day, but
I always forget. What time is it in Arizona?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Seven am?

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Right? And then in a little while it'll be eight am.
I mean in a couple months when they don't. Arizona
I think, still the loan state that does not either
spring back or fall forward.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
No spring ford or fall back.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
We are the only place where we just said no,
we're not changing our time. We're stubborn right out here
in Arizona, so everything else has to move around us.
I mean it's almost a semi like arrogant type statement,
I guess as a scene. But you know, I mean
we've also been talking about this, right, they've been they've
been reviewing it in government, whether to actually do the

(01:09):
daylight savings and and to actually review or just keeping
a standard time since obviously we're moving from a more
agrarian society. Yes, yeah, we don't really farm that much.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
So hey, man, when I grew up in I'm staying
New York, it was a thing, man, It was a
thing as farmers needed that extra that extra time. By
the way, you know, one of the things that I
thought long and hard about and will probably if I
ever get around and running for president, one of my
one of my sort of things that I will definitely
look at is that when you spring forward, like, falling

(01:43):
back is great. So I would either do one or
two things every every time you change the clock, you
fall back, so we get an extra hour of sleep.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
How great is that? Right? Springing forward?

Speaker 1 (01:52):
You always feel like, oh my gosh, I got robbed
out of an hour of sleep. What they should do,
and what I will make sure I do if I
become president, is to do that, like say three o'clock
on a Friday afternoon, and make it a thing. Now
everybody gets out an hour earlier. Right, Maybe maybe you
make a big national celebration, some happy hour deals and
everybody turns it into kind of like almost like a

(02:14):
semi vacation. Doesn't that sound a lot better than doing
it in the middle of the night when everybody gets
robbed out of an hour asleep.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
It just depends on the age demographic rob I guess
twenty one year olds don't mind it.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
They like the extra bar hour.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
When I was.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
I guess you're right, Yeah, bar closes, no bar stays open.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yay, another hour.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
I just lost every vote under twenty five, So maybe
I'll just maybe I won't run for president after all.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
So Max cutdown Day.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
This is a day we've been kind of looking forward
to in a way because it begins to set the
course for what the Steeler's final fifty three is going
to look like. Barring a tweak or two, who's going
to be on the the practice squad to help you
in the coming season. You know who the guys that
are gonna be. You know, there's probably a few guys
that are developmental guys. You know, a few guys that

(03:08):
you expect to be up and down kind of guys.
So we begin to get a sense of that. And
the Steelers, you know, they made a first round of
cuts over the weekend and that didn't I don't think
there was anybody there that was overly shocking. And then
they made another round of cuts yesterday, and I want
to get through those cuts with you and see if

(03:30):
there are any real surprises, and maybe I'll just go
player by player, because there were a couple of guys
that really surprised me. So let's start on defense. Defensive
lineman Kyler Baw he flashed, there were momentary flashed, but
but I felt he was just in a numbers game.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
Yeah, no, I completely agree. I think Kyler ball. There's
nothing he did wrong. It's just he was up against it, right.
I mean, you come into a very packed defensive line room,
you know, you think about this.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Cam Hayward said it. Forget it. You're not You're not.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
You're not releasing him like he was never on the
chopping block. Keanu Benen was never going to be on
the chopping block. You had young draft picks, right, and
Derek Harmon and Ya Black. You felt those guys weren't
gonna get cut. So already you're at four and when
you're trying to squeeze to six, there's only two spaces available,
and you you bring it in free agency. Daniel Aqualae, Well,

(04:26):
you'd like to say, for all intents and purposes, that's five.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Right.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
You wouldn't bring him in if you didn't plan on
wanting to keep him uh in the regular season. And
then you have that sixth hole, right, and that sixth
hole is crammed with Isaiah Loudermilk, Logan Lee right and
the field Dominique Davis who's been released now you also
had You also had Ezzie Out out of Maywoe who

(04:53):
was also in that group, and you also had Kyler Ball.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
So really you had about.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Five guys fighting for one spot, and so that's gonna
be tough. And Kyler Ball for the explosive and twitchiness
that he that he has. The only thing that was
working against him was genetics and height. He was a
shorter defensive lineman, and I think that also played a
role in it, especially when you're talking about these quarterbacks

(05:18):
and when you get pressure from the interior, being able
to put your hand up bat down passes, kind of
like what Ya Black's been doing on camp. You know
that skill is is very desirable, So you're gonna look
for some bigger guys.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
And like you said, you know, with.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
The way that Isaiah Laudermilk has played on special teams
as well as well as playing on the defensive line,
you look at Logan Lee and his utility and special
teams as a backup snapper, like there were other things
that you needed to have to fight for that sixth spot,
and Kyler just didn't have that skill set. He's a
very good defensive lineman, but that's what he is. He

(05:54):
is a defensive lineman. So that I think kind of
went into the cut nothing against it, and listen, I
talked about him, ka, I loved him. I thought I
thought he played really well. But when you're looking for
that second guy or that third guy, you have to
bring something else, something else has to be in that
side pocket to show hey, I could do this as well.

(06:17):
And I think that was where the limitations kind of
kind of caught up with him not being a little bit.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
More versatile in some other areas.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I've been having discussions with
people about, you know, what makes the last guys in
the roster, you know, and I think mostly you point
to special teams. But again, and I don't know where,
so a lot of you know, a lot of fans
are doing their mock rosters, and you know, so there
becomes a question like, hey, Corey Trice has been injured,

(06:46):
what do we do with Corey Trice. Well, to me,
there's there's the exception of a guy who if he
makes the roster, it's because you believe a lot of
those guys and the end of the roster might not
have the upside of being a starting player at a
valuable position.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
I think he would be. He would be an exception.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
He would be a guy who you'd look at and say,
we're keeping him because he's a guy that can be
a starting NFL cornerback, you know what I mean. So
there's always little bits of sliding scales as to, you know,
the importance level of certain things to keeping a player.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
On the roster.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
I'm just bringing that up, as you know, so fans
get the idea that there's a lot that goes into this,
including probably can I sneak a guy through waivers And
if a guy has less than four years in the NFL,
he has to go through waivers. If a guy has
more than four years, you can say, hey, listen, we
want to bring you back on the practice squad as

(07:45):
long as nobody else claims you or whatever. You kind
of kind of have a little deal with a guy.
So there's a lot of different factors that go into
making up these rosters.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
No, there's a lot of thoughtfulness, and I think that's
where you know, for fans, I hope that they kind
of this and you know, you're gaining that trust in
Omar Kahn and the way that he goes about his
business and using of course Andy Widel and Sheldon White
in this process, and they're pro scouting staff. Are the

(08:14):
pro player personnel staff, I should say, because there's the
college personnel and there's pro personnel. So right now in
this kind of decision making process, you're utilizing your pro
staff because they're the ones that are also weeding and
sifting through all of the other teams that are doing
their cuts as well, and you're weighing against the field
about what you think if you could slide something in

(08:36):
and then let that guy clear waivers and then bring
them right back, that's what you're hoping for. And I
think that's what the really appealing thing is when you're
going through this process. You're trying to hope that you
can get a guy through clear waivers and then boom
sign them right back immediately because you have to hold
you know, those other fifty three. You know, you don't

(08:56):
want it, but in reality they're a little bit more value.
You're still valuable, but there's not room and they feel
like there's still some development that needs to go on
as well for them to take that next step, like
you said, getting to the starter capable status, whereas it's
like you don't want to say, ah, just just just
to back up, you know. And of course in the

(09:18):
pre draft process, they give all these crazy rankings on
this scale.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
That go for like six point zero below.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
I can't remember exactly what it is, but no, it's
a point scale, and they ranked the guys before they
come out in their career about what they're what their
value is, you know.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Pre draft wise in a holistic sense.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
Then you want to see if those guys can meet
or exceed those those things that they've been graded at.
And it's you know, it's a very intricate process, I mean,
and I would say this year a lot tougher than
in other years because there was.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Such good depth at camp.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
You didn't really see significant drop offs, And I thought
that was something that was just eye popping from the
moment we started camp than when we got the pads.
It was like, wow, there's a lot of good talent
out here. I mean we talked about it on numerous occasions. Yep,
just how good the talent pool was that Omar Kahn
and company was able to amass here for this year's

(10:18):
for this year's training camp, and of course going into
this season.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, as Mike Tomlin said, if you want to have
a good fifty three, it starts with a good ninety,
you know, because injuries are gonna happen and you want
that competition. And the students certainly had an intriguing ninety.
And but you know, before we let go of this
evaluation process, you know, me, I'm going to try to
put it this way to fans who were you know,
either playing along at home or newer to I don't

(10:43):
want to insult you know, you know, diehard football fans
out there, but maybe there's some fans that are kind
of getting into football, you know, when you're starting to
make those decisions. At one point, Miles Killerbrew is probably
one of those guys that they were making a decision on. Well,
now he's an All Pro Special teamer teamer. He is
elite at special teams, right, so he's kind of on

(11:05):
one end of the scale. You know, again, if a
player is And I'm just using Corey Trice as an example.
I don't know what the status is. I don't know
what they're gonna do, but you know, you look at
him and you say, hey, here's a guy who can
be a quality starting NFL cornerback. That's maybe on the
other end of his scale. Most of the guys that
they're gonna be making decisions on are in between. Right,

(11:28):
Does he lean more toward a guy we think can
be regular? Does he lean toward being a guy that
we can definitely count on for special teams? Are there
other guys we can count on for special teams? It's
not you're not making that decision in a vacuum, because
even if one player is closer to being a really
good special teamer, well, you may have a really good
special teamer who's also a really good linebacker for you.

(11:51):
Maybe you know, like for example, just throwing it out there,
Malie Harrison a good special teams player, good linebacker, right,
so he kind of maybe maybe that ability makes you
make different decisions. Hey we're gonna take a more of
a chance on a guy we can think think can
be a starter, or hey, we don't want him on
special team. If we want to rest him for defense

(12:11):
because we think he's got a potentially really help us there,
Let's keep another guy on special teams who's a special
So there's just so much that goes into these decisions at.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
The end of the roster.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, And I think that that
that's the right mindset and the right way to kind
of look at it, to frame the mind of those
out there is like you have to weigh, you know,
a bird in the hand versus a bird in the bush, right, right, Yeah,
you need some Yeah, you need somebody that's already got
those skills versus somebody that might be able to develop

(12:43):
them because the time is not on your side when
you get to the regular season, right, every week, it's
a new problem, it's a new adjustment, it's a new challenge,
it's a it's a new opportunity, and you need guys
who are already kind of you know, as Mike Time
was said, on the moving train, you want somebody trying
to run to catch up you get on that train.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
And so that's what makes it tough.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
And like you said, in years past, you probably could
have taken that guy that was fringe and worked him
into it and allowed the reps to kind of teach him.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
But this year you have the luxury of having ready made.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
Guys, right, So it's so that that's what makes it
a lot tougher for that younger, inexperienced guy.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
And there's nothing wrong with it. And I think here's
the other thing. You could always circle back. You can always,
as we call it, spin the block.

Speaker 4 (13:33):
You can come back around, you know, and you can
still see you know, that guy in the future, because
maybe he gets on another team's practice squad boom, you
could pull him if you need him on the active
roster because of injury, you could pull him off that
practice squad right or if he is going to go
to another team, another team might not be as deep
as we were, so that guy can.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Be more immediate there.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
You also don't want to stop their progress, you know,
as a professional athlete as well, if there's another team
that has a more glaring need and more immediate need
right now, you know, and as we kind of go
through this, we'll kind of talk about what that looks like.
Because also there's cuts around the league. There's been other
other teams and teams that we played that have actually
cut guys. So it's like, is that guy intriguing or not?

(14:17):
So I think, you know, as we get this program,
we'll kind of understand. And of course, you know, the
cuts will happen after our show, so we'll definitely bring
all the final cuts tomorrow. But since we did have
another round of them to kind of make today a
little bit I guess less of a laundry list. That's
why we're kind of going through this process and also
giving guys another opportunity to put themselves out there that

(14:38):
might have displayed themselves. Is also a respecting to give
them an opportunity.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
To go to go get a job somewhere, and one
other thing or a couple other things to throw into
that decision making process again to let people know it's
just it doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
There are a lot of factors in play. Let's say
you are a new coach.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
On a team and you are all about rebuilt, right,
you don't have a very good team you want to rebuild.
You might be looking for for different things. You might
keep a veteran just because he brings a leadership element
that you want more than his ability to play. But
you might also get rid of. If it comes down

(15:18):
to a veteran or a young guy, you might say, hey,
it's a sixty to forty thing. The veteran's a better player,
but you know what, let's take the forty because there
are other veterans we can get next year after we
sift through and let's look for a diamond in the rough.
You know, maybe you're a team that's just looking for
veteran guys to plug in. You're in win now mode.

(15:39):
You're not totally sure about a starter certain positions, so
you want to have a quality back up there. It's
just it's endless what goes into these decisions, the nuances
involved in making these decisions, and so the students have
made some of those decisions now, and it's so so
as we look at the defensive line physician Max, let's

(16:01):
let's go through who's left by my count Derek Harmon,
Keanu Benton cam Hayward, Isaiah Laudermilk, Daniel laquale, Y a Black,
Logan Lee and.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Assese Odam Maywell.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
So that's eight guys, and frankly I like them all,
but I don't think I think seven is probably the
maximum you're going to keep there.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
Yeah, at the absolute most, that's the most cube. So
somebody is getting released you know, later today, and like
you said, and it's not going to be for the
lack of the you know, the team trying to figure
it out. It's just you only have so you have
a finite amount of spaces, right, you know, this isn't
a college roster.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
We can keep fighting guys, right, you know, like there's
fifty three that you're allowed. Now.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
Granted, I would I would always argue and push back
that the roster should be bigger, you know, because you're
playing more games and you're eventually going to get to
eighteen games here, why not make that decision. But of
course we know in the UH, in the world that
we live in, you know, profits always want to get maximized.
So with larger with larger rosters, comes larger overhead so

(17:19):
to speak, or contracts. So you know, there is very
stringent to to expand that even though you're expanding you know,
games and opportunities and you're taking away more of the
developmental process in the preseason, you're taking those opportunities away.
So you would think, Okay, I'd like to have a

(17:41):
bigger roster, if if we're going to be taking these
games away where I get to actually see what these
guys can do versus having to guess and then I'm
stuck with the small amount of guys.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
And I have this long season ahead of me. So
you know, you do not arguely that.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, here's my here's my mac starts rule chains that
I like. And I understand what you're saying. And they
have expanded the they have expanded the practice rosters and
maybe the practice squad, and maybe they'll tweak those rules
a little bit so there's more up and down movement,
so it'll be like a de facto larger roster, which
it kind of is now. But I like your idea

(18:17):
about make all fifty three guys eligible on game day.
I've pondered that since you said it, and I can't
see the downside of that.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Yeah, no, and and you know here here I'll play
Devil's advocate. Here's what the downside RISKK is for certain
teams they don't have fifty three guys available, and also
they don't want to make fifty three guys available because
guess what if you have fifty three guys available and
those guys dress that counts towards they're vesting, and and

(18:47):
there and and them becoming accruing an NFL season by
that when you don't dress, it's it's a lot tougher
when you're inactive. So if you're active, you get that credit.
If you're inactive, you don't, So you can kind of
play with those numbers a little bit.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
And that's where that would be a lot.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
Tougher, right, So you know you're saying that you're gonna
add essentially seven more guys that could move towards becoming.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Vested football players.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
So that's where because and that's by thirty two teams, right,
seven more guys by thirty And then also here's the
other thing. Not everybody has fifty three available and some time,
and and some guys are stringent about moving up and down.
This would force them to move up and move down
to make sure that you get to fifty three so
that you're not going out there with fifty two or
fifty one.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
But that's also the gamesmanship, right, That's.

Speaker 4 (19:45):
That's that's they liked that type of advantage, and I
would I would press against it as a former player,
like no, make all if he's on the active roster,
make him active like that, that's what's the point. Make
it a forty six man roster if that's the case,
you know, and then you're up and down, and it
gives your team more versatility, you can do more things.
You can keep guys fresher by just adding those extra

(20:08):
seven guys, right, because that's an extra offensive lineman, that's
an extra defensive lineman. That's that's an extra core four
special team or that's a linebacker or defensive back right
or both. Like you can now take a guy who's
probably a fringe or consistent rotational guy in the in
the defensive or offensive structure that you can now add.

(20:31):
You can have that dedicated punt returner. Now that doesn't
necessarily have to be a receiver or a dB. You
can actually have a guy that's just strictly put returner,
and you can have strictly two kick returners and it
not have to be your running back or somebody else.
You can actually add and play with those numbers, and
that would also allow for the more advancements of skills.
You know, we talked about the fringe guy versus the

(20:52):
ready guy. Like now you eliminate that fringe guy, you know,
for a favor of a ready guy, now you can.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Have both of them.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
So I think that's where it would make more sense
to have that in place. But because the rules are
the rules, and every organization thinks differently, you know, you
can't get consensus on it. And that's what makes this
so tough.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
By the way, I agree with everything you just said,
and it's it is an interesting topic to me because
there's a lot of other factors involved, and thank you
for shedding light on those, some of them that I
had not thought of, So thank.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
You for that.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
I'll also say this about the active roster and and
figuring out who's going to be on your roster. You know,
last year they changed kickoff rules, and I think what
we've seen is that in the past you might put
a wide receiver back there right as a as a
kickoff returner, and your your punt returner is still probably

(21:52):
more likely to be a defensive back or a wide receiver, right,
you know, like a Calvin Austin type of guy.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Shift year guys like that. It's it's like.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
A long physical running play with guys now like Isaiah
Laudermilk running down on kickoff. You don't want little guys
out there. You want running backs out there. So man,
that does that force teams to think about carrying a
fourth running back on their roster because you don't have
fifty three guys to go to. You don't have that

(22:23):
one extra running back that you can put out there
on kickoff return to try to preserve your starters. So
you know, that's that's one of you know, we talk
about the nuances that go into the fifty three man roster.
That's one I hadn't really thought about until, you know,
thinking about that kickoff return position and how that might
change things a little bit and who is kept on

(22:45):
a roster and who is not.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
Yeah, and this is all about versatility, right when you
look at your second wave guys, that's what you have
to look at.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
What's the utility? Like, what else does he offer outside of.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Being just an inside linebacker? What is the offer instead
of just being a nickel? What is the offer instead
of just being a tight end, a running back, a
wide receiver, an offensive lineman in defensive right, that's what
you're looking for, Like can this guy play multiple positions?

Speaker 3 (23:16):
First?

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Right, if you're gonna be a second line guy, can
you play more than one position. Okay, can you also
play special teams? Are you a core for special teams guy?
Or are you just a kicking you know, a field
goal and field goal block guy?

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Right? Do all those things kind of get weighted? Can
you long snap? Right? You know? Can you play gunner
as well?

Speaker 4 (23:37):
So you look at what the guys offer behind, because
that also determines what your what your value is come
game day because you only have forty six positions that
you can slate or a lot on a team, and
you have to do that ninety minute non dress you know,
that gets turned into the referees, guys who cannot play
in the game, you know, not able to participate. Like,

(24:00):
there's a lot of that decision making and that's why
when you get to k you have to put your
best foot forward. But also you have to be willing
to just raise your hand. Hey, I need somebody, I'll
do it. I'll do it me right here, right, set
seven eight?

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Gotcha? Gotcha? I'm good?

Speaker 2 (24:16):
You know, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
But there's so much that goes into it. And we're
just starting to talk about the rosters, which you're down
to what maybe sixty five or so, maybe another dozen
cuts it up to be made, and of course some
of these guys will be invited back onto the practice squad.
Sixteen guys can be on the practice squad International exemption
with Julius Welshoff.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
We'll talk about him in a moment.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Lots to get to and we continue on here inside
the locker Room with King and Starks, presented by your
neighborhood Forward Store here on the Steelers Audio Network. Welcome
back inside the locker Room with King and Starks, presented
by your neighborhood Ford Store on the Steelers Audio Network.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Getting to the roster moves.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
The Steelers have already made the roster moves coming up
between now and four pm when the Steelers need to
get down to the mandatory fifty three. You know, keep
in mind too that this number of fifty three could
really be fifty five, because with a couple of injured guys,
you could put them on short term i R if
you wanted to, they'd have to miss the first four weeks.
So it's possible that the amount of roster reductions is

(25:28):
smaller than we think, and a larger number at fifty
not fifty three, but fifty five could be sort of
de facto on the roster now that haven't been said.
We have gone through the defensive lineman Kyler Baugh was
released by the team yesterday, so that leaves eight defensive

(25:49):
linemen outside linebackers Julius Welshoff who Max, I would expect
Julius Welschoff is going to be back on the team
as part of the Internet national exemption. Would that be
a reasonable guess?

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yeah, I would.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
I would say that would be very very reasonable to
assess that.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Okay, and then the other outside linebacker just happening this morning.
Reports out confirmed that to Marvin Leal, who was you know,
making some noise to possibly be a fifth outside linebacker
for this team, you know, as sort of an elephant end.
He has also been released. And again if you're you know,

(26:32):
year zero through four, you go through waivers, so he
has been placed on waivers. Your thoughts on de Marvin
Leal because in that last preseason game, Max, he was
everywhere and some of it was good and unfortunately some
of it was you know, penalties and other things. But
he was definitely noticeable on Thursday night in Carolina.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
No very noticeable.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
He showed up you know a lot, and you know,
for better or for worse. I think, you know, when
you're talking about competition, right, it comes down to you know,
how you present yourself and this is a last impression
that you get to leave on teams, which hopefully you
make the decision a little bit tougher. And I think

(27:15):
you could say made it tougher than I'm sure initially was.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
But when you look at the room, it's where's their space?
You know what I'm saying, Like like.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
There is no space in that room. It's jam packed,
and so it's tough, you know, for some of these
but like you said, some of them, you're just trying
to clear waivers to get him back.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
And I think you know, when you look at it,
I mean, these would.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Be some intriguing guys to try and consider bringing back
and have them being kind of up up and down,
two way type of guy.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
I agree, And I think he's a prime guy that
you would Again, you know, I'm not privy to the
Steelers decision making process, no idea, but I do think
he sounds like an intriguing guy, a guy that maybe
you know, maybe even is you know, a guy you
bring up for a certain game if somebody's dinged up,
maybe you like him in a certain look, in a

(28:06):
certain you know, hey, we think he could provide us
with a mismatch in a game like this. Now, of course,
there needs to be an opportunity for him to be activated.
You can't just pluck him off and decide when to
play him, because you know, you have to make room
for a guy to be able to do that. But
you know, because of the injury history and because they
are largely playing him at that outside linebacker position when

(28:28):
I think his first year or two was larger years. Yeah,
on the defensive line. To me, he's still you know,
we talk about guys that you'd want, you know, guys
who yesterday we were talking on the show, maybe guys
who mature late for whatever reason, either they're drafted young
or they're just look, not every human being goes through

(28:50):
the same exact We don't. Also, you know, think about
you know, being in seventh grade, one kid shaving most
of the class isn't right. There's some guys that are
still not shaving in tenth grade. You know, everybody matures
at a little bit different rate, and so maybe he's
one of those guys that, even though he's not a rookie,
is still a developmental sort of guy, and maybe his
best football still ahead of him. To me, he's intriguing.

(29:13):
I'd love to see him on the practice squad, but
you know, we'll see. First he has to clear waivers
and then he has to the Steelers have to decide
he's he's the type of player that I'm describing.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, And I think that's the thing.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
But you know, the other thing is he's had He's
had a couple of he's had years here.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
You know.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
That's the other thing, right, right, He's not new to this.
He's not new to the staff. He's not new to
the defensive side of the ball. That staff has seen him.
And you know, trying to make a position switch during
your career is already a tough task, right. But I
think the other thing you have to consider is, you know,

(29:50):
and I'm going to be frank here, less than desirable
actions for a experienced player in that Tampa Bay game.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Mm hmm, I said, Carr in Carolina mean or Tampa Bay?

Speaker 3 (30:04):
No, Tampa Bay.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Oh okay, yeah, Carrol car Well.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
Actually, I take that back. I'm sorry. You're right. It
was the Carolina game. I take that back.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
It wasn't care it was a Carolina game, right, Two
big plays that could have happened that were not that
were neicated.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Right, lined up off and that's actually three you line
up off side.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, uh, face mask, face mask, and then had a sack.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
We're right there for a sack.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
And and and I think that I think that wound
up being an interception anyway. But still for yourself, you know,
you'd like to have that sack on your resume too.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah, you'd like to have that sack of your resume.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
So the two penalties was just too much, you know,
and I think for your lasting impression, that was what
it was. It was that he was he had the opportunity,
he flashed, but he ended up penalizing and hurting your team.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
And that's what I think.

Speaker 4 (30:54):
And we'll get to a couple more of these, uh
that I think those things also played into it. But
that was just very glaring, right because you know, one
of them, great play to start the game momentum. And
now it's first and five, right, the face mask you
have the guy in the backfield now is a fifteen
yard penalty that kept their drive alive. Right, you know,

(31:15):
it wasn't like, ah, you know, it's a harmor effort file.
It's different if you're in the clutches and accidentally, incidentally,
I mean it was a glaring face mask.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Right on that one. Yeah, it was just a personal foul, right,
no doubt, Yeah it was.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
It was a true personal foul, not not in that
gray area. And so I think that's ultimately what hurt
it because you don't you shouldn't have those things from experience, guys,
And especially when we talk about just the amount of
penalties that was in that Carolina game alone. I mean
you're talking about twenty two accepted penalties in that game.
That's a high margin, and the Steelers had more than

(31:48):
the Panthers, right, So yeah, because I believe the Steelers
ended up with thirteen of those.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
So that's so.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
And we talked about in the pregame of you know,
talking about what would make Mike tom gonna feel.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
Good, you know, leaving this game, Yes, and maybe tough.
It was penalties the very first thing.

Speaker 4 (32:07):
So then when you are the guy that commissed the
thing that he's trying to see cleaned.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
Up, makes it easy, makes it easy you cut yourself
in those problems?

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, yes, And unfortunately that's an unfortunate truth. So now
as we take a look at the Steelers outside linebackers,
so still eight defensive linemen by our count on the roster.
Five outside linebackers TJ. Watt, Jack Sawyer, Alex high Smith,
Nick Herbig, Akuliota.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, that's your five. So so right now.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
We have thirteen players on defense who are still being considered.
Then we go to inside linebacker and this was one
of the ones I think as I was two guys
came to mind for me when I was sifting through
this roster that I thought, oh, wow, you know not well,
and we'll get to some of the offensive guys that

(33:04):
at least intrigued me.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Actually hold up, rob one second.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
One second, I do want to say this with Julius Welshoff, right,
I think, because we were kind of in the middle
of all this, Julius Welshoff still has the international player exemption, right,
so there is that opportunity right if the Steelers choose
to exercise that. So I want to make sure people
kind of know that as well. Because Julius, being a

(33:27):
German born player and came through the IPP program, he
technically still has one year of international exemption left. Thanks,
So that's something to consider as well when we're looking
at this. Yes, he can go in clear waivers, but
if he doesn't clear, he does still get that exemption
protection if.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
He's not picked up.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
And by the way, to make sure we kind of
knew that, yes, thank you, because I meant to infer that,
but you're right, I didn't actually say it. So he's
an exemption guy. So you have your you have your
sixteen spots on the practice squad, and then a seventeen
should you choose to keep an international player?

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Was it fifteen and sixteen or sixteen? I think sixteen
and seventeen?

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Right, sixteen to seventeen, Yes.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Sevent he is seventeen. He does.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
He does not count against he's free your practice. In
a way, he's a free player to a degree. Yes,
he's still paying out. Yeah, he's still get out. He's
not free to the team. He's free as far as
as far as the count goes.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
And by the way, you're talking about another interesting developmental guy,
guy from Germany, a guy who started playing football. He
was visiting family in Orlando. I think the story is,
and his uh, you know, family members like, hey man,
you should you should start playing this American football thing.
So it's not like he played it from a pee
wee Ahe I think he was maybe just pre teen,

(34:46):
started to play, started at Charlotte, you know, is considered
a very good athlete and probably still a little raw.
So so a guy that I think, you know, I
think on his own merits, he'd be worthy of a
practice squad.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
I don't even think.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
I think if if he wasn't available for the international program,
I think he still might make the practice squad max.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Yeah, And this is what that opportunity is right now,
right when you release him.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
This is to.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
Clear waivers because somebody else could potentially if somebody else
wants to take him and actually count against their practice
squad designation, they can do so or sign him to
the active roster. But if he does clear, then you
can bring him back.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
And use the international exemption.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Right, So let's get quickly to the guy that surprised me?
Or should we wait? Let's wait for that after the break.
Let's wait, Yeah, yeah, let's wait for that after the bak.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, because this one did make me. As I was
reading down.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
The list, I said, oh uh, and we'll tell you
who that is as we continue on looking at the
Steers as they begin to shape their roster for the
twenty twenty five season. When we continue inside the Locker
Room with King and Starks, presented by your neighborhood Ford
Store here on the Steelers Audio Network. And welcome back

(36:11):
inside the Locker Room with King and Starks, presented by
our neighborhood Ford Store here on the Steelers' Audio Network
alongside Max Stark. Sound rob came beginning to see the Steelers'
roster really take shape period, kind of a ninety man
lump of clay getting down to a fifty three man
vessel ready to sail into the twenty twenty five season.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
Max.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
I mentioned this before we went to break.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
The one guy that really did surprise me, that really
stood out to me because I thought he was going
to make the roster was Mark Robinson, an inside linebacker.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yeah, no, this was a tough one. This was a
tough one.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
And you know for Mark rob Right, you said, former
seventh round pick, had been around for three years and
made the conversion from running back three years in college
at Ole miss to see you being a linebacker getting
drafted off the potential and then showing the flashes, right,

(37:06):
he showed flashes, but still not the experience that you
would like to see at this The dude was a hammer.
I'm not lie he was. He was the closest incarnation
we had to landon Roberts once the land and Roberts
moved on to the Raiders, and so you were like, Okay,
there's a possibility. But when you bring in a Malie Harrison, right,

(37:31):
you draft a Carson Brunner, that makes it a lot
tougher for your crew.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
And to find it.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
And then you get Cole Holcomb back from injury. It
made it a lot tougher for Mark Robb to make
this team. You can only carry four maybe five at
the most at the inside linebacker position. So it was
one of those things where the potential versus the experience
kind of kind of you know, was not greater in

(37:59):
this moment, and Mark Robb had had a number of
years to kind of catch up.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
But still you're behind.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
The eight ball.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
You're not only switching positions, you're switching sides of the ball,
which also means you're switching mentalities, you know, with how
you play, And I think that was one of the
things that you know, for Mark rob he kept making
those moments and you know, kept wanting to see the growth,
and he gave growth.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
It was incremental growth.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
But I think they wanted to see these this gigantic
leap and I just don't think that leap was there yet.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Now here's to.

Speaker 4 (38:31):
Say, I don't think that, you know, for a guy
like Mark Rob his career is done. I think he
has a lot of value and he will go somewhere
and be very effective. Or you try and get him
the clear waivers and you bring them back on your
practice squad because you know him so well and there
is a potential if there's an injury or anything, because
you know that just happens as a part of this game.

(38:53):
He would be a quality guy that you would want
to have stashed just for those type of occasions. Plus
he's a he's a really good guy special teams, really
good at what he does.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
On sprite teams, and I thought that might make the
difference for him because you know, last year he was
tied with with Peyton Wilson for the fourth most or
the third most snaps on special teams for this Teelers,
only two behind Connor Hayward and Miles Kilbro. You know,
they each had three hundred and three snaps on special teams.
Peyton Wilson and Mark Robinson had three to ZH one.

(39:24):
And you know you're looking at Peyton Wilson and thinking, well,
I mean, uh, you know, maybe fewer uh you know,
regular season special team snaps might be good, you know,
as a guy's probably gonna be starting for you. So
you know, those are kind of the reasons that I
was that I was thinking about for that. So now
as we take a look at the inside linebacker position,

(39:47):
you're looking at Patrick Queen, Peyton Wilson, Malik Harrison, Cole Holcombe,
and Carson Brunner.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
So that's your five right now.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
So again to recap eight defensive linemen, eight outside linebackers,
five inside linebackers. That makes us at eighteen before we
get to the secondary. Not all eighteen of these guys
are going to be kept. But how are you sort
of sizing up that inside linebacker position because I could
see all five of those guys being kept.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
No, So let's make sure you said, because you did
say eight outside line I will say make sure.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Five, No, eight defense.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
I'm sure eight defensive linemen, five outside linebackers, five inside linebackers.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
So because we're all about integrity.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Here, yes, absolutely, and act like Craig Wolfley would say,
we're all about integrity here. So for transparency's sake, that's
how we got to eighteen. Everybody, we do know how
to count. We are adults, I promise you.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:41):
So we have ten total linebackers, five and five inside
and outside, eight on the D line.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
So I just want to make sure we say that
thank you.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
I know we will get text messages or we will
get we will get you know, Twitter messages X.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
I guess X messages.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
I'm still working on this, trying to call it over Twitter.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Everyone knows that. But again, that could come down to
the integrity thing. So let's let's reta social media messaging.
Let's get the numbers.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Eight defensive linemen, five outside linebackers, five inside linebackers. Now,
let me also point out that Malik Harrison last year
was second on the Ravens in special teams snapcounts, And
a big reason for I think bringing him in is
because he brings that versatility. He is a guy forget size,

(41:33):
He's a guy that you like on defense, you know.
So he played about a third of the snaps for
the Ravens very good defense.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Last year.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
He was out there about a third of the time
on the field, So he's bringing you that value while
also bringing you premier special teams value.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
So he does.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
He is a guy you know, you talk about strengthening
the top of the roster, and everybody talks about you know, rightly,
so J Jalen Ramsey, DK Metcalf, Aaron Rodgers, Darius Slay
you know in the past, Patrick Queen and others big
time additions to this roster. Well, Malie Harrison is one

(42:14):
of those guys that you know, he provides quality at
linebacker and quality at special teams. He's not an either
or guy. He's a both guy. And that you have
a guy like that, you know, quote unquote towards the
end of your roster, that's a really nice guy to have.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
And let's just put it this way.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
He's Mark rob two point zero, right, He's further along
the process. He is a true linebacker. He's not transitioning
the linebacker still. And like you said, he outpaces Mark
Rob and in the uh in the special teams game.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
So it's a it's it's it's.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
A matured version of what Mark Rob can be essentially
and that guy happens to be on your roster versus
you looking for that guy.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
So that's what makes that decision a little bit.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
You know, easier when you're trying to pick an either
or you know he had he brings that cachet with him.
So that's also another reason why when you're thinking about,
you know, Mark Robinson being released or being put out
for waivers, it's it's that I would say he would
be one of the key ones. Him and Cole Holkum
would probably be the two that probably said, okay, Mark

(43:23):
rob You know, the special teams component kind of goes
back to nil. Right, it's an equal proposition. Now what
do they offer in the position experience wise? And both
those guys kind of outpace Mark Robin that as well.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Right, then defensive backs, and let's get to this before
we head to a break. Toshawn Jamison and Daryl Porter.
I don't think anything's earth shattering here, but I will
say this, you know, in another year on another team,
Daryl Porter every time every.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Time he looked up. This is just through my lens.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Max.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I
thought he looked good. I just I thought, wow, another
tackle by Daryl Porter. Another break up by Daryl Porter.
Thought he showed some things, but you know, big and
we'll get to this in a moment, but a big
time numbers issue at defensive back for the.

Speaker 4 (44:08):
Steelers logjam logjam and also for some of our more
casual Steelers listeners out there. This is Daryl Porter Junior,
not Joey Porter Junior. I saw a couple of things
yesterday when this release was somebody really.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Oh, how can they cut Joey Porter. I was like,
that's not even his name. I was like, are you
And I was like, you're casual, You're casual. I get it,
I get it. You don't. You don't watch sports.

Speaker 4 (44:35):
You saw a last name and you just assumed that
it had to have been some kin to Joey Porter
Senior with Joey Porter Junior. And I get this, Darryl
Porter Junior, but yeah, you're just looking at Porter Junior.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Come on, come on, let's let's let's let's be real.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
You didn't watch any of the preseason and you have
not listened to any commentary that we've done. Joey Porter
Junior is a starter. Daryl Porter Junior was brought in
later in a training camp, and you're right, this was
just he came into a numbers game that was not
gonna he was not gonna win. But the but the
beauty of that is because you said so many of
those dbs, he at least got an opportunity to get

(45:12):
tape out there, and like you said, he put up
good tape.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
So when you're.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Talking about a guy that could potentially get poached and
brought onto another team that's not as deep in their
secondary as the Steelers, he would be a fine addition.
And I think he's a guy that Also, the Steelers
aren't gonna forget right. You know, they keep long memories
and they will circle the wagons on you and come
back if there's an opportunity to bring you back in.
So I mean he put his best foot forward. So

(45:38):
nothing negative there, I think, And I think in the
case of Deshaun Jamison, can't can't can't hit.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
The kicker, can't hit the kicker, gotcha?

Speaker 4 (45:46):
So that was that was That was the Tampa Bay
one where I was like, oh man, he just he
just he.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
Just lost lost an opportunity there.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
Yeah, that was that was a tough that was a
tough one, even though he did make plays on special teams.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
I was like, nah, tdr penalty that led to a touchdown. Now,
so what's gonna be tough?

Speaker 2 (46:05):
So here you go.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Now with your defensive backs, corner Darius Slay, Corey Trice,
Joey Porter, Junior, Brandon Eccles, James Pierre, Jalen Ramsey, Beanie Bishop,
Dante Kent. Now Kent and Trice have both been nursing injuries.
That is eight cornerbacks currently.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
On the roster.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Remember Beanie Bishop had something too, did I did?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
I not as far as Nick Dupp, but yeah, so
he's one.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Of Nick Nick nicked up. Yeah, he's rather uph Then you.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Have Deshaun Elliott, Juan Thornhill, Chuck Clark, Miles Killebrew, Sebastian
Castro at safety, eight corners, five safeties. Again, uh, for
integrity's sake, we're going to count. Okay, I almost need
count from Sesame Street. I got eight defensive eight defensive
linemen very good max. Five outside linebackers, fives, eight cornerbacks,

(47:01):
five safeties. The Steelers will not be the first team
in NFL history, to the best of my knowledge, to
carry thirty one defensive players on a fifty three man roster.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
Cuts are gonna have to be made.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, a minimum of five, probably six guys that we mentioned,
and I think we like them all and we like
guys that have been cut. And again, this is what
we talk about when we talk about, you know, sort
of this depth of the Steelers' roster and how difficult
this cut down day is going to be. Today at
four o'clock, we're through the defense. We're not through the offense,

(47:33):
We're not through the special teams. If more cuts come up,
interesting news happens around the league, We're going to fill
you in inside the Locker Room with King and Starks,
presented by our neighborhood Ford Store here on the Steelers
Audio Network