October 6, 2025 • 45 mins
Max and Rob discuss and react to the games yesterday, specifically the ones in the division that benefited the black and gold with their results.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is in the locker room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one point fifty is the official truck of
the Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it
direct from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at
shop dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And thanks for being with us in the locker room
alongside Max Starks. I'm rock King Justin Miller at the
Patrols as we get you ready for the Steelers and
Browns this week and wrap up what happened this weekend.
And first of all, Max, I have to tell you
that I was in my car yesterday I listened to
I was driving back from Upstate New York. I took
the opportunity to go visit my mother in Upstate New York,
(00:50):
see some both high school friends, sixtieth birthday party for
an old pal of mine, and then you know, seeing
my mom, all good stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Listen to the game and then could not.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Could not find you in serious could not find you
in the ESPN app. Could not listen to your call
with Steve leeby right you said, yeah, yeah ESPN Radio right,
I couldn't find it.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah, ESPN Radio. It wasn't on serious it should it
wasn't on eighty serious, eighty four serious, eighty four.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I was looking at eighty one. They said eighty one
was the games. Oh eighty one. Oh the extra station.
I could, I couldn't find it.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
How how was that?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Man?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Heck of a game?
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah, it was a heck of a game. I mean
it was a dud for the first three quarters of it.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I mean Denver couldn't move the ball after the first
drive they could, they could even get back. They couldn't
even get to the thirty five yard line of Philadelphia
for the first three quarters of the game. And then
for all of a sudden and in the fourth quarter
they were able to put back to back drives in.
Once they got inside the red zone, they scored touchdowns
(02:01):
and Sean Payton seven and a half minutes left in
the fourth they're down one. It's sixteen to seventeen. Sean
Payton goes for two after scoring and they converted to
take a one point lead. That was crazy. That is crazy.
It was so crazy. And then they end up stopping
(02:22):
stopping the Eagles and then kicking a field goal to
make it a four point victory. So it was absolutely
just a crazy ending a game that everybody thought the
Eagles are going to be, you know, just going to
cruise through because the Broncos are two and two, and
you know, I said it at the beginning of the Broncos,
I said, they've lost two games by a combined total
(02:44):
of four points. I was like, and they came on
last second kicks. So they've never trailed in a fourth
quarter of a game before, and in this moment, they
trail and then they take the lead and that is it.
And so it was a fantastic finishing for Philly fans.
Heartbreaker two days in a row because the Phillies in
(03:05):
Game one right against the Dodgers, I mean, solid solid
for the beginning strikeout show, hey Otani. You know, they
had all of they had all of things going in
their way, and then all it took was one three run,
three run homer and the air out of that building
went out. And so to back to back days, Philadelphia
fans get served the hot l and there were fans
(03:28):
that were that came in doing the back to back
because the games were in consecutive days, so they were
double heartbroken as they left there wasn't a lot of
blotherly love as I was driving to the airport as
far as going through traffic, so I was like, oh, yeah,
Philly fans are back to being Philly fans once again.
But no, but it was. It was a great game,
so we I couldn't complain it was. I mean, considering
(03:51):
what happened, you know, it was I felt, the best
matchup of the week, but you know, obviously the greatest matchup,
you know, the greatest, the greatest games yesterday, Rich were
one thing and one thing only. All three AFC North teams.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Ye lost two weeks in a row, two weeks in
a row. They could not get the job done, and
that of the weekend.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I just take that solace because that was that was
the biggest one for me.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It was a day in which you didn't have to
play and you were able to pick up ground on
all three teams.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Incredible. I mean, two game lead minimum on the rest
of the division. That's that's wild.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And at this stage of the season, it's incredible. Now
you haven't played the division games yet. I understand that,
and I really I you know, I don't know what
to make of these of these teams. In the division
because you know, I think I don't know, Like, to me,
(05:08):
the Browns are kind of a they you can't take
them lightly because there's some things that they do well.
You know, they probably they're one and four. They probably
should be two and three. Maybe they shouldn't have beaten
Green Bay, but they definitely should have beaten Cincinnati. They
should have won yesterday's game in London against the Vikings.
(05:32):
You know, this could easily be a two and three
football team instead of one and four. And you can say, well,
there's the Browns, but you know they're trying to change
things there. They've got a lot of young players. It
looks like your draft class already is paying huge dividends.
They got a lot of young guys that looked pretty
good on that brown from that Browns draft. And then
you look at the Bengals, Max, I don't know whether
(05:52):
they're gonna have I feel like they have to do
something at the quarterback position. Browning has thrown you know,
six touch down passes, has eight interceptions. Uh, you know,
I I don't see I mean, I don't know how
that plays out. I mean, you're trying to You're you're
paying all these guys all this money to try to
(06:12):
get to the playoffs and win, and Burrow might be
back for the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And I mean, I think you got to take a swing.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
At a at a low cost pick up like a
Russell Wilson and then and I'm gonna let you, you know,
kind of handle all these And I look at the
Browns with all the injuries they have. No Lamar Jackson,
I don't know when he's going to be back.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Maybe this week.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
No Kyle Hamilton, no Ronnie Stanley, no Marlon Humphrey, no
ro Kwand Smith, no Patrick Recard. Mattabik is out for
the season. That is seven Pro bowlers, seven Pro bowlers
on the shelf. You have the you're one and four.
You have the Rams and the Bears before the buy
now out of the by and this is where I
still you know, people are you know, writing the the
(06:55):
death certificate out for the Browns or put they're ready
to put the toe tag on them. Uh, look, man,
you're one and four. Even if you split these next
two games. Let's say you go into the buy at
two and five, right, you split the Rams and Bears,
you get healthy. Now they've played five to seven games,
at home by that point. So they got some road
games coming up, but at Miami, at Minnesota, at Cleveland,
(07:18):
against the Jets, against the Bengals. That's five very winnable games.
You could go into the buy two and five if
you're the if you're the Ravens, get healthy and come
out and be seven and five or six and six,
and even at six and six, you're right in the
thick of things and you're going to be that team
(07:38):
where people are going to say, uh, oh, I don't
know if I want to play the Ravens at six
and six and desperate for a win. The one thing
that is underneath all that though, they got to straighten
out that defense because it is a mess. So Max,
I don't know how you want to handle these teams,
but let's start with Let's start with the Ravens and
your overall thoughts on a one in four Ravens team.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Uh, Cooper Rush not the answer at backup quarterback, just
like Jake Brewg's got the backup for the Cincinnati Bengals.
It was embarrassing yesterday that Ravens game. They got absolutely humiliated,
especially for a Houston Texans squad that has had a
(08:24):
lights out defense, but offense has struggled. Their offensive line
has been terrible for the Texans, and that's been the
liability for this Ravens team with all those injuries you mentioned,
and offensively, they just looked like they weren't in sync.
They were able to bottle up Dereck Henry once again,
(08:45):
and Cooper Rush looked rushed the entire game. And I
think that was just glaring. I mean, when's the last
time you've seen a Ravens team. I mean, now, the
defense has given up forty points. They gave up forty
points forty one one points to the Buffalo Bills in
the season opener, but that was a one point forty
one forty shootout. This was forty four to ten and
(09:08):
it was never close, right. They got blown out at
home at M and T Bank Stadium, a place that
they loved their home field advantage and they love, you know,
keeping keeping teams depressed when they play at home, defending
the home turf, and they got absolutely rated in that game.
(09:30):
And that was embarrassing. And so you know, if I'm
Lamar Jackson, I'm looking like, oh man, I need to
get healthy quick, or I need to ask for more money.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
Because this is what you got without me. So they
we are in trouble. They are four and ten without Lamar.
They have lost five games in a row without Lamar.
The thirty four point loss at home was the largest
home loss for Baltimore since twenty thirteen. It is only
(09:59):
the second time in the thirty year history the franchise
that they've begun one in four.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
The one hundred and seventy seven points allowed in the
first five games of the season a little rhetorical question
for the fans out there, do you know how many
times the Ravens have allowed one hundred and seventy seven
points over any five year stretch in the history of
their franchise. The answer is one you are looking at it.
(10:26):
They've never done.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
This this time ever.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
They are reeling, and you know, you look at Derrick Henry,
who came out of the blocks in that forty one
forty loss. You reference eighteen carries one hundred and sixty
nine yards. Since then against Cleveland eleven carries twenty three yards,
Detroit twelve carries fifty yards, Kansas City eight carries forty
(10:51):
two yards, Houston fifteen carries thirty three yards. They can't
get King Henry going now against Kansas City, you're behind,
you're throwing the football, you kind of take them out.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Of the game.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
But man, this is they are a confounding team right now,
even with the injuries right and again, to me, this underscores.
You know, people, look, I understand the Steelers and the
Steelers the Steelers stated a joke goal and the fans
expectations meshed to the point that ten and seven, nine
(11:26):
and eight getting the playoffs, losing the first round is
not what they want. But look what they've done with
you know, Duck Hodges and others at the quarterback position
and being able to find ways to win and not
get worked at home. Well, they got worked a few times,
but still managed to find a way to get themselves
(11:48):
into the playoffs and be relevant. You know, you look
around the league and teams with injury problems, they look
to be in serious trouble. Now as we know, one
week later, you know, Jake Browning goes out, throws three touchdowns,
one interception, Bengals win. Now we're looking at a three
and three Bengals team and we're thinking, oh, you know, hey,
they righted the ship and they're a good thing. They
(12:09):
got off to a fast start for the first time ever.
So these things change week from week. But as we
sit right now, you know, the rest of the division
is in trouble, Max.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
They are. They are for the vaunted and very skilled
division that we had, it's been long standing, one of
the toughest divisions in the NFL. Yeah, it's crumbling. It
crumbled in the month of September for all around us
except us, of course, right because we're the Steelers. So
(12:41):
let's just make sure we continually note that we are
in first place. We're firmly in first place. But we
do have you know, two of the next three weeks,
we do have division games coming up, So we have
the Browns coming up this weekend, we have Thursday night
football in since Natty coming up in mid October. So
(13:04):
that's where it's to put up or shut up time
for us because then absolutely that and then from there
that's where we show if we have true dominance. So
it's good at the moment, right because you know, as
Mike Tom will always say, you know, nobody's gonna feel
sorry for us, and you know, nobody wants to woe
is me about our problems. They're happy we have them.
(13:26):
But right now we don't have that problem. We are
sitting in control of our own destiny, which is something
we haven't had the most opportune time in the last
four or five years to actually be in this position,
right to actually control and be in the driver's seat
of the AFC North. It's usually been we've had we've
(13:49):
been neck and neck, or we've had a street fight
to get to it. But this time, as we sit
here starting in October, we now sit in a position
where we can try roll our own destiny and and
and on that path of the ultimate goal of getting
into the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And again I would caution people, uh fans who want
to look at this stretch and think five and one man,
we're going to be five and one. Uh when we
turn off the TV set, actually, yeah, flip off the
radio after Mike Projuda's postgame show with Charlie Batch on
(14:27):
Thursday night.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Of course.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
Is it.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Don't turn it off before that, don't turn it off.
Turn that sound down in the TV. You know, it's
it's very very tempting Max to say, man, five and one,
let's rub the hands together. Man, here we go, you know,
and that and listen that could very well happen, and
that would be a that would be a remarkable place
(14:52):
to be. I still believe that you need to just win.
This is still it's always just win. But this is
really just win part of the season. Still, Oh, let's
see some I think we saw some pieces of the puzzle,
you know, falling in place. But again, to me, I
don't see the team that peaks in Week seven is
(15:16):
usually not going to win the super Bowl. You want
to have that build up, that crescendo as you reach
the playoffs. So it's still just about winning games and
finding a way to win games and hopefully finding beginning
to find more and more of an identity over this
next four or five game stretch. But boy, even though
I'm saying, don't think of five and one, man, that
(15:38):
would be a good place to be with two to
zero in the division, I just said not to do that.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Max, and I went there, what am I doing? What
am I doing?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Hey? Hey, let's just focus on being four and one
one another division? How about that? Okay?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That sounds good to me.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And look just real quick about the Bengals before we
get to break Max, Because this is our AFC cap
presented by UPMC, the official healthcare provider and the health
plan of the Pittsburgh's and we will we will look deeper,
but right now we're starting with this AFC North. We'll
continue this discussion after the break. But I look at
(16:13):
the Bengals man, and I just I don't know, you know,
Jake Browning had some success a couple of years ago
when Burrow got hurt, you know, looked to be solid.
But six touchdowns, eight interceptions, you don't have a great defense.
Even though they keep investing picks there, it just hasn't
paid off for him. I don't know whether you you know,
(16:37):
wait a week or two and then you know, you know,
throw into towel and say, let's make a bunch of moves,
and you know, you know, maybe trade Trey Hendrickson, think
about next year, or whether you go out now, or
maybe you do both. Maybe go out now and get
a low cost you know, I don't know what their
salary cap situations, but maybe go out and get a
Russell Wilson and think, hey, he can rest of all
(17:00):
down the field to our targets. He gives us a
chance to squeeze into the playoffs where maybe by that
time we can turn things back over to Joe Burrow.
I just don't know how they can let another season
go and not do something.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
No, and it's time that you've attacked your offensive backups.
Like they put so much money into their front line
guys that left no money for themselves on the back end,
and we're seeing it kind of live and in action that.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
This is.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
A what if Joe does not make it type of situation.
And Joe is is not that guy. He's not healthy consistently.
He can't help you. He can't help you when he's
injured and the guys behind him. Because you spend so
(17:56):
much money on Joe, Jamar and t you left nothing
for your for your backup covers, no emergency rations, right,
you know, And I think that is it's nice to
have one of everything, but sometimes you want a redundancy
for the for the and we always talk about this.
It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
(18:18):
And you know, for the Steelers, like right, we dealt
with adversity right at the beginning of the season, but
we had the best depth that we've ever had, and
that's why we were able to lose a Joey Porter
for an extended amount of time, but Deshaun Elliott for
an extended amount of time and Alice high Smith for
an extended amount of time, right because we had quality depth.
(18:42):
And that's what you're seeing being the issue around this
league and why teams are in these positions that they're
in is because they put so much money up front. Now, granted,
we're gonna come to a day where we're gonna have
to have a high paid quarterback, right you know, and
you're gonna have to deal with the haircut you'll have
to take for that. But for right now, while you
(19:03):
have an opportunity to do this, you can you can
build up everybody else because your quarterbacks don't cost as much.
And that's why a lot of teams get really you know,
over the top about man, when we draft a quarterback
in the first round, make sure you get that fifth
year option and everything else, and so you could keep
your salary low so you could build the rest of
the team. But these quarterbacks now they're like, nope, I
(19:25):
don't want the fifth year option. Those extensions are starting
to come faster. So what's the incentive to getting that
guy so early? Because you're gonna end up having to
cut elsewhere to make sure that you keep that top
flight quarterback in check if you want them for four, five,
six years down the road. And that's what the Bengals
(19:47):
are dealing with. But the Bengals wun on paid two
wide receivers, which I you know, I get it, you
like them a whole lot, but there's only one football
on the field at the end of the day's and
they're feeling it.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, you know, their roster construction, you know, and some
of the picks. You know, when you think about you know,
you spend first round picks on Miles Murphy, he hasn't
really done it yet. Shamar Stewart will See was a
first round pick this year, Chris Jenkins was a second
round pick, and you know, you're trying to find these
(20:20):
guys up front to be disruptive factors, and it's it's
still feels like it comes down to Trey Hendrickson and
they're trying to find that. They're trying to find the
balance in the in the middle of the fields. You
go out and sign a TJ. Slayton, But you know,
they're they're they just the defense isn't very good and
(20:41):
hasn't been very good. And you know, it got better
last year. You know, when they when they try to
switch things up a little bit or they're trying to
get better about it. I don't know how much better
they really were. They talked about getting better. It really
comes down to that team, just to me, really comes
down to Joe Burrow and the offense. And if you
(21:02):
don't have Joe Burrow, I'm sure they thought Jake Browning
was was was able to come in and do a
decent job. But he did a really good job that
the game Burrow got hurt. I suppose, you know, Max,
most teams are really not built to win without their
starting quarterback. Your starting quarterback goes down and you're in
(21:24):
a world of hurt. You're you're in big trouble, you know.
And again you look at you look at the job
the Steelers have done now that the I think that's
a mixture of the coaching staff and a better team
around you. You know, they've had Kenny Pickett, who's on
his you know whatever team now, and Duck Hodges and
(21:44):
other players who have not been established NFL starters. I
think a team can withstand a three or four game stretch,
but I think it's very difficult for the Bengals or
anybody to withstand a stretch in which you are out
quarterback is out for the long haul.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Yeah now, I mean, now you get a Sam Darnold situation, right,
that's the Golden Goose situation with a JJ McCarthy. But
those type of seasons don't happen a Nick Foles with
a Carson Wentz. Right, there's very specific moments and time,
but it's not a consistency and it's not guaranteed, and
you have to dig through the bargain pile to try
(22:24):
and find that one moonshot year. Right, Geno Smith when
he came to Seattle, it was not the vaunted guy.
Now he's looking like the same guy from the Las
Vegas Raiders as well. Right, So we've had these examples,
but these examples are few and far between, and these
are you know, the best record, you know that the
Minnesota Vik's ever had in their team history. The Eagles
(22:47):
win a Super Bowl, right with Nick Fole, Like I'm
talking about like crazy things. The Seahawks after Russell Wilson
make it to the playoffs like three straight years, Like
these are things that don't happen normally and and it's
tough to do that. Like you said, when you put
so much into the quarterback position, this is what you get.
And the reason why we've been able to win games
(23:08):
with those other guys and our team is because things
weren't disproportionate. You could go find a quality back up.
And also Duck Hodges, you didn't know what you were
gonna get with Duck Mason. You knew you spent a
third round pick on Mason, and Mason was able to
just be around and be the serviceable guy. Spot duty
has been great. And I think that's why you go
and you bring a guy like that back, because I
(23:30):
would rather have a proven guy, a known guy, than
an X factor guy where you don't know what you're getting.
And so that's why the Steelers have been able to
kind of use the carousel of guys. And also you
had the personnel around you to support that guy. They
don't have that personnel to support that guy. Like Joe Burrow,
even though he was paid all that money, they still
(23:52):
never really fix their offensive line. It was still crappy.
And so now you put a lesser quarterback in there,
and this is what the reality looks like. Realize how bad.
You know, you've been with your offensive line management and
you haven't been able to get the right group in there,
because a good offensive line covers all those ills. So
it is, it is, this is but this is the
(24:13):
league we live in. This is the era we live in.
For for the NFL is the age of the quarterback.
Something else has to give.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And I agree all the way. I mean, they went
out and signed Dalton Reisner and they were hoping that
he was gonna, you know, be able to as a
long time starter for the Vikings, you know, solid football player.
They spent a first round pick on a Marius Mimes
at right tackle left to Orlando Brown. It feels like
they're just trying to, Hey, if we can solidify this
offensive line, get Chase Brown, going have Joe Burrow. But
(24:45):
when you have all that money, you know, tied up
in the quarterback position, something's gonna give. And the frankly,
the roster management just it just hasn't been great for him.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
It just has not.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
The defense with all the picks that they put into it,
you know, the first round picks, all the and second
round picks, the DJ Turners, the Dax Hills, the Cam
Taylor Britz and some of these guys are good football
players Demetrius Knight this year, you know, we mentioned Murphy
and Stewart. When you put that many first round picks
into a defense, you expect that defense to be a
(25:18):
heck of a lot better than the Bengals defense. You
expect them to be able to go out and maybe
win you a game or two, and that just hasn't happened.
So anyway, listen, we have much more in depth to
get to, but we are we're getting a little tardy
here and want to remind people also that they can
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Speaker 3 (25:45):
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Speaker 1 (26:14):
This is in the Locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
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Speaker 2 (26:35):
And we're continuing our AFC recap presented by UPMC, the
official healthcare provider and health plan of.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
The Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So, Max, we've been kind of diving into the AFC
North and we can get back into that a little bit,
but I did want to get around the rest of
the AFC. The Colts just worked over the Raiders. Now
we have seen so first of all, tell me about that.
What did you are the Colts for real?
Speaker 4 (27:06):
I think, until otherwise noted, you have to take him
at face value. They are for real. Daniel Jones Indiana
Jones has been his nickname as of late, has done
his job. He's done exactly what the Colts have wanted.
He knows how to distribute the football around to the
different players. Jonathan Taylor has been playing out of his mind.
(27:27):
He had a heck of a game yesterday. But this
team is playing complimentary football. And when you look at
the AFC South, let's think about this. You know where
they stack up. They're leading their division right now. The
Texas had that great win yesterday, but the Texas have
been a mess all season so far. So that's your
(27:50):
stiffest competition. Jacksonville. We don't know what Jacksonville is. Jacksonville
is probably the next one pushing it, but Jacksonville has
not really impressed. You just kind of like, oh they won,
not like oh man, they won, you know type of deal. So,
and then Tennessee is Tennessee. I mean they got their
first victory of the season yesterday against the Cardinals, you know,
(28:12):
at the last second, by one point. And so when
you look at that division, I mean, Indianapolis is the
only team that looks put together and looks comparable and
looks competent as a team. So I say, as of
right now until otherwise noted, you know, take them at
phase value. That is, that is a good team that's
(28:32):
threatening to push for the AFC South crown.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
And you know you mentioned Jonathan Taylor. Uh you know,
terrific player obviously. And also look they're leading receiver right
now and they've got you know, they've got Pittman and
they've got some other guys, but they're leading receivers. Tyler
Warren first round pick tight end. I mean, that's it.
That's winding up looking like a really good pick.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah it is. I mean, well, we knew who he
was for Pitt State. I mean that's right. Yeah, I
mean he was the guy last year on that playoff run,
like I mean, he could be triple covered and Tyler
Warren was still going to get the ball from Drew Roller, right.
He was just that dude. I mean, the most powerful,
you know, most I would say dominant tight end since
(29:19):
brock Bowers. And that's that's the ilk that Tyler Warren
comes from. And you know he's he's still proving it
right now. He doesn't have the numbers like brock Bowers
did his rookie year, but when you talk about being clutch,
got to have a moment, Tyler Warren's has been that
guy and has been stepping up in that position. Well.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The other thing I think about the about the Colts,
which is what I why I think this could be
sustainable is that. You know, Look, they lost Ryan Kelly
and they lost Will Fryes in free agency, but they've
been drafting to replace those guys, and you know, guys
have stepped in against Solves at right, Ard Bordolini at center.
(30:02):
You know, and you know, so Gonsalves is a guy
that obviously we we know about here in in in
Pittsburgh as a former Panther. You know, look, they've got
the offensive line and if Daniel Jones can show him something,
you know, Alec Pierce, you know, Michael Pittman. They've got
(30:23):
you know, they've got a decent, you know, core of guys.
But I think they can sustain what they're doing. Look,
not forty points a game, but you know, you get
a good offensive line, you get a quarterback with first
round pedigree who suddenly gets dropped behind a good offensive line,
unlike what Daniel Jones had in New York. You know,
we're seeing quarterbacks kind of on that second team, uh,
(30:47):
you know, whether it's or third or fourth team. Baker Mayfield,
Sam Darnold, other guys that have you know, Geno Smith,
that have found success a little bit later on in
their career. And maybe Daniel Jones is going to be
the latest guy. But he's got a good offense to line,
a very good offensive line, a great running back, an
outstanding rookie tight end, and a solid receiving corps.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
And that's what you and it goes to show you
that solid roster construction, competent roster construction can yield good results.
You don't have to have the splash. And I think
everybody gets so overly concerned with the splash guys, the
big guys. Those guys are great and you always want
(31:31):
to have them, and you hope that you draft them
versus going out in free agency and acquiring them, because
that's when the rest of the team suffers when you
have to go make that type of big time play. Now,
for the Steelers, when we went and got DK, we
were in a position because because our salary cap was
(31:51):
at a very good place where we could do that,
right because we hadn't had to pay that quarterback since
been retired, and we've had a lot of young guys.
One year, your guy rentals that we able to put
a bunch of them together, right, you know. Last year,
you know you package a Russell Wilson and a Justin
Fields well, up until two weeks ago. Both those guys
(32:12):
left the team and were starting for their respective teams.
They started a season for their respective teams, right, and
we were able to get them for what less than
twelve million dollars. I want to say, So, you found
the deal, the bargain in that situation, and that doesn't
happen all the time because normally you want a draft
(32:32):
the guy, you want to groom him through and as
he's depressed, build the other things. Sign, Sign your sign
your deals, get your guys in place for the long haul,
and now you can go get a DK Metcalf and
free agency, right, and then you can find a late
round trade opportunity and tag on a little bit for
(32:52):
Jalen Ramsey. You know, you find a good deal on
Darius Slay Kenneth Gainwell, right, you find these guys at
the Juan Thornhill. You know you re sign Deshaun Elliott
for a good contract, not a ridiculous contract. That's the way,
that's the nature of the game, and that's what Omar
Khan does really well. When you talk about numbers and
(33:14):
putting the puzzle together, He's he's a master ace. He's
putting on a master classes. He's taken over his GM
with being able to turn over a roster get great talent.
Between him and Andy Widel and Sheldon White and company,
they've been able to construct this roster and find the
value in the guys who fit the scheme right, find
(33:36):
the right puzzle piece, find the round peg for the
round hole, find the square peg for the square hole,
not vice versa. You don't switch those pieces up. And
I think that's what's been so good about the Steelers
and why we could say that because we have layered contracts.
We didn't just bring in a whole new squad. Remember
when the Browns did that five or six years ago,
they bought the number one roster, they won the offseason, right,
(34:01):
Daniel Sider, It was every every brand new car off
the lot was shiny, beautiful and everything else. And then
they end up being lemons. They're in the shop more
than they're out on the road. And that's and that's
what I will tip my cap to for the Steelers
not only finding those players, but those players being fits
(34:23):
and for more often than not, health being on their side.
So it's been it's been great to watch and that's
why we sit here today, you know, you get a
value on Aaron Rodgers when nobody else really saw the
value we did. And man, it's paying dividends. And now
this team's starting to meld together. You're starting to see
them all come together. And I told you it's gonna
take time, right, I said, Rob, I was saying, what
(34:45):
first six weeks of the season, right, then I can
give you my assessment right, well, just on.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
The team in general in general. You also mentioned that
about the old line, which I think I.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Brought that up. Well, the line has to meld. O
line has to meld, and I think we saw we're
seeing them mature. So they're moving. Because as your O
line goes, so shall your team. So the old line,
you know, is the heartbeat of the entire squad because
what the old line does trickles to the defense, right
Because if you're sustaining drives, guess what your defense is
(35:17):
doing sitting on the bench. And if your old line
is protecting guess what balls driving down field to your receivers.
Lanes are opening up for your running back. And so
the offensive line is very critical. I always said they're
the heartbeat, or they're the cadence drum for for a team.
Remember you know back of military terry times, right, the
(35:39):
little drummer boys, right, they kept the pace when the
when the when the soldiers were marching. Yep, that's what
the office is up. Up the bump bump, bump, right,
that's the beat and the pace left left, left, right, left.
You want to have that, and that's what the old
line provides. So the O line coming together brings the
(36:01):
rest of the team together as well. And so that's
what you're seeing now. And you know, our last board
meeting before I give an assessment comes this Sunday at
Aforsure against the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Right, and you've you've brought up what I think is
an absolutely fascinating topic, one that interests me a great deal,
and one which we will get to after the break,
because we got to take a break. You're in the
Locker Room presented by your neighborhood Ford Store and the
Steelers Pro Shop on Steelers Nation Radio, part of the
Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
This is in the Locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
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dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
All right, well, thank you very much for being with
us in the locker room.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
And you know, Max, you're talking about the quarterback position
and talking about roster construction, and this is one that
I think is always interesting in that, by and large,
if you are picking high in a draft and can
and can select that franchise quarterback, you are by definition
(37:25):
a bad football team, or you certainly had a bad year.
Every once in a while you have a team that
you know, everything goes wrong, you have a bad record,
and hey, this is a great year to be picking eighth.
We're not really that bad of a team. But when
you pick high, you you have a bad team around
(37:45):
that young quarterback. And so if you draft Baker Mayfield
or Sam Darnold or another quarterback, you're probably not very good.
Now if you get a Sea or Bryce Young for example,
so you get C. J. Straft to get Jayden Daniels.
Now are those guys lifting a team up or are
they getting into a better situation than you would expect.
(38:08):
This whole notion that you have to tank to get
one of those guys. I think we saw the Chiefs
for twelve and four and traded up and got Patrick Mahomes.
The Bills were nine to seven, they traded up and
got Josh Allen. So what was happening was that those
players Mahomes and Allen, when they were ready to play,
(38:29):
they had a good team around them. And the best
thing you can probably possibly be in the NFL is
a good roster with a young quarterback who is ready
to play and ready to compete at the highest level.
Because that guy's not cost you anything. Four years from now,
he's going to cost you fifty five million dollars a year.
Right now, he's not costing you. He's only costing you
(38:50):
a couple million dollars a season. So this when to
get the quarterback? How to get him? I mean, if
you're a lousy team and you think that quarterbacks the
next Ben Rossisburger or Tom Brady, you have to pick them, right.
But man, it just seems to me to be a
much better situation to have a young quarterback trade up
(39:10):
and get him, give up what you got to give up,
and now that young quarterback comes into a position kind
of like Ben Roethlisberger. Even though the Steelers were coming
off a bad year.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
He stepped in.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
He didn't have to do it all. There was a
good team already in place.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Yeah, And I think when you look at Ben, Ben
is one of those classes of things where you built
the rest of the team around them and sert quarterback
here right, drop him into a good system. And also,
I don't need Ben throwing the ball thirty five times
a game. I need him to be twenty to twenty five.
(39:48):
Use the run game, stay balanced, Let the run game
free up the options for Ben to go up against
single high man coverages, not dropping into creative zone packages.
You know, cover two was prevalent back when he was there,
Cover two man quarters, Cover three wasn't really as big,
(40:08):
and so you can play with that. You know, Tampa
two was huge, right. You know, Mike backers dropped to
the middle of the field, like all these defensive structures
that you know would frustrate most young quarterbacks. Because you
have a good, solid run game and you had a
great offensive line in front of you, you negated most
of that because teams needed to play with the eighth
man in the box, because you had Duce Staley and
(40:30):
you had your own medics in the backfield, right right.
I mean that as a heck of a duo. And
if you play too high on on the Steelers, they're
gonna run it down your throat. And so that all
helped the maturation for Ben in his process. And now
we're coming in and we're saying, well, we're drafting number
one overall because we are crap, or we're number two
(40:51):
overall we're crap. And now we have to like dump
dump this young guy in the middle of a bad
team that hasn't been properly constructed. We probably would wouldn't
need a quarterback if we had a better offensive line
at times, right, or if we have better weapons, but
we don't. And now we're asking you to do everything.
We're asking you to be superman. That's why duel threat
quarterbacks are so desirable, right, because they can run in
(41:13):
pass and they can make up for the deficiencies on
your offense if you don't have a good run game.
That was not the case with Kansas City. Like you said,
with Patrick Mahomes, you had Alex Smith, you had a
solid run game. Travis Kelce was young, vibrant, He was
the only receiver that could actually find the end zone.
On Kansas City's team, it felt like. But they were
(41:34):
a good team and they traded up and they said, no,
we need something to enhance this even further. For the
good base that we have, let's add to that base
with dropping in the quarterback. I'd rather have it and
not need it than to need it and not have it.
And for Josh Allen as well, Right, you still had EJ. Manual.
He was still solid, serviceable. You're an okay team, but
(41:56):
you were that five hundred flirting with five hundred team
and you needed a boost, and so you inserted Josh Allen.
And it takes about a year. But then from year
one to year two there's a jump, and then year
two to year three there's an even bigger jump. And
you already had the old line in place, you already
had the running backs in place, you had receivers in place.
(42:17):
Then you started acquiring some guys and now you're now
the Buffalo Bills that we know today. That's how it
that's how it's supposed to work. But when you do
like the Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold or Zach Wilson
or Mac Jones or Bryce Shaw. Now the list can
go on in all right, I mean of failed quarterback experiments.
(42:40):
When you have a bad team and you're expecting the
quarterback to be the band aid for everything on a team,
it usually doesn't work. Exception being a c. J. Stroud,
But a CJ. Stroud, Remember also had a Will Anderson
drafted the top five. So you drafted a top a
number one quarterback right, and a number one the best
(43:01):
defensive player in the draft. And those two together with
a brand new coach and an overhauled roster that got
decimated by Bill O'Brien before he left, and just absolutely
they were a dumpster fire down there. Right, it's solidified itself.
Jade and Daniels. You had a decent roster, but Jane
(43:21):
Daniels made that roster better. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
And he might be the next guy, right, Yeah, he
might be the wonder kid. Right, he might be the
next superstar. And and that's why you have to take
those guys. But you just wonder how many guys were ruined.
I mean, it's it's just a fascinating position to me.
It's a fascinating you know, So Baker Mayfield, can he
(43:45):
win it all?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
We don't know that yet about Baker Mayfield. We don't
know that yet about Sam Darnold. Are they the kind
of teams that can the kind of players that can
elevate a team into the playoffs, into the super Bowl
and win it. Not every quarterback who wins the Super
Bowl is of that caliber. I think there's a lot
of people that that are that wonder. Hey, you know,
(44:08):
Jalen Hurts, is he really of that Patrick mahomes uh,
Josh Allen type of caliber? You might you might ask
that question about Lamar even with winning the MVPs, because
he hasn't been able to do it in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Can you and what are you win it?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
For some franchises, Max, we know would be delighted to
win some games, get into the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Woohoo.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's a it's a cause of celebration. In Pittsburgh. Super
Bowls are celebrated.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
You go to the playoffs, nobody's throwing a parade for you.
You go to other cities, hey man, they might start saying, hey,
here's where the parade route starts and ends. We made
the playoffs, so expectations are different. You know what, We
have to pick up this discussion on the other side
of the break, because it's a it's one that has
fascinated me for years, and I really want to hear
what you had to say about it, but we can't
(45:00):
do it now because we have to go to break.
You're in the Locker Room, presented by your neighborhood Ford
Store and the Steelers Pro Shop on Steelers Nation Radio,
a part of the Steelers Audio Network.
This is in the locker room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one point fifty is the official truck of
the Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it
direct from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at
shop dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And thanks for being with us in the locker room
alongside Max Starks. I'm rock King Justin Miller at the
Patrols as we get you ready for the Steelers and
Browns this week and wrap up what happened this weekend.
And first of all, Max, I have to tell you
that I was in my car yesterday I listened to
I was driving back from Upstate New York. I took
the opportunity to go visit my mother in Upstate New York,
(00:50):
see some both high school friends, sixtieth birthday party for
an old pal of mine, and then you know, seeing
my mom, all good stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Listen to the game and then could not.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Could not find you in serious could not find you
in the ESPN app. Could not listen to your call
with Steve leeby right you said, yeah, yeah ESPN Radio right,
I couldn't find it.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah, ESPN Radio. It wasn't on serious it should it
wasn't on eighty serious, eighty four serious, eighty four.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I was looking at eighty one. They said eighty one
was the games. Oh eighty one. Oh the extra station.
I could, I couldn't find it.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
How how was that?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Man?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Heck of a game?
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah, it was a heck of a game. I mean
it was a dud for the first three quarters of it.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
I mean Denver couldn't move the ball after the first
drive they could, they could even get back. They couldn't
even get to the thirty five yard line of Philadelphia
for the first three quarters of the game. And then
for all of a sudden and in the fourth quarter
they were able to put back to back drives in.
Once they got inside the red zone, they scored touchdowns
(02:01):
and Sean Payton seven and a half minutes left in
the fourth they're down one. It's sixteen to seventeen. Sean
Payton goes for two after scoring and they converted to
take a one point lead. That was crazy. That is crazy.
It was so crazy. And then they end up stopping
(02:22):
stopping the Eagles and then kicking a field goal to
make it a four point victory. So it was absolutely
just a crazy ending a game that everybody thought the
Eagles are going to be, you know, just going to
cruise through because the Broncos are two and two, and
you know, I said it at the beginning of the Broncos,
I said, they've lost two games by a combined total
(02:44):
of four points. I was like, and they came on
last second kicks. So they've never trailed in a fourth
quarter of a game before, and in this moment, they
trail and then they take the lead and that is it.
And so it was a fantastic finishing for Philly fans.
Heartbreaker two days in a row because the Phillies in
(03:05):
Game one right against the Dodgers, I mean, solid solid
for the beginning strikeout show, hey Otani. You know, they
had all of they had all of things going in
their way, and then all it took was one three run,
three run homer and the air out of that building
went out. And so to back to back days, Philadelphia
fans get served the hot l and there were fans
(03:28):
that were that came in doing the back to back
because the games were in consecutive days, so they were
double heartbroken as they left there wasn't a lot of
blotherly love as I was driving to the airport as
far as going through traffic, so I was like, oh, yeah,
Philly fans are back to being Philly fans once again.
But no, but it was. It was a great game,
so we I couldn't complain it was. I mean, considering
(03:51):
what happened, you know, it was I felt, the best
matchup of the week, but you know, obviously the greatest matchup,
you know, the greatest, the greatest games yesterday, Rich were
one thing and one thing only. All three AFC North teams.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Ye lost two weeks in a row, two weeks in
a row. They could not get the job done, and
that of the weekend.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I just take that solace because that was that was
the biggest one for me.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It was a day in which you didn't have to
play and you were able to pick up ground on
all three teams.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Incredible. I mean, two game lead minimum on the rest
of the division. That's that's wild.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And at this stage of the season, it's incredible. Now
you haven't played the division games yet. I understand that,
and I really I you know, I don't know what
to make of these of these teams. In the division
because you know, I think I don't know, Like, to me,
(05:08):
the Browns are kind of a they you can't take
them lightly because there's some things that they do well.
You know, they probably they're one and four. They probably
should be two and three. Maybe they shouldn't have beaten
Green Bay, but they definitely should have beaten Cincinnati. They
should have won yesterday's game in London against the Vikings.
(05:32):
You know, this could easily be a two and three
football team instead of one and four. And you can say, well,
there's the Browns, but you know they're trying to change
things there. They've got a lot of young players. It
looks like your draft class already is paying huge dividends.
They got a lot of young guys that looked pretty
good on that brown from that Browns draft. And then
you look at the Bengals, Max, I don't know whether
(05:52):
they're gonna have I feel like they have to do
something at the quarterback position. Browning has thrown you know,
six touch down passes, has eight interceptions. Uh, you know,
I I don't see I mean, I don't know how
that plays out. I mean, you're trying to You're you're
paying all these guys all this money to try to
(06:12):
get to the playoffs and win, and Burrow might be
back for the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
And I mean, I think you got to take a swing.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
At a at a low cost pick up like a
Russell Wilson and then and I'm gonna let you, you know,
kind of handle all these And I look at the
Browns with all the injuries they have. No Lamar Jackson,
I don't know when he's going to be back.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Maybe this week.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
No Kyle Hamilton, no Ronnie Stanley, no Marlon Humphrey, no
ro Kwand Smith, no Patrick Recard. Mattabik is out for
the season. That is seven Pro bowlers, seven Pro bowlers
on the shelf. You have the you're one and four.
You have the Rams and the Bears before the buy
now out of the by and this is where I
still you know, people are you know, writing the the
(06:55):
death certificate out for the Browns or put they're ready
to put the toe tag on them. Uh, look, man,
you're one and four. Even if you split these next
two games. Let's say you go into the buy at
two and five, right, you split the Rams and Bears,
you get healthy. Now they've played five to seven games,
at home by that point. So they got some road
games coming up, but at Miami, at Minnesota, at Cleveland,
(07:18):
against the Jets, against the Bengals. That's five very winnable games.
You could go into the buy two and five if
you're the if you're the Ravens, get healthy and come
out and be seven and five or six and six,
and even at six and six, you're right in the
thick of things and you're going to be that team
(07:38):
where people are going to say, uh, oh, I don't
know if I want to play the Ravens at six
and six and desperate for a win. The one thing
that is underneath all that though, they got to straighten
out that defense because it is a mess. So Max,
I don't know how you want to handle these teams,
but let's start with Let's start with the Ravens and
your overall thoughts on a one in four Ravens team.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Uh, Cooper Rush not the answer at backup quarterback, just
like Jake Brewg's got the backup for the Cincinnati Bengals.
It was embarrassing yesterday that Ravens game. They got absolutely humiliated,
especially for a Houston Texans squad that has had a
(08:24):
lights out defense, but offense has struggled. Their offensive line
has been terrible for the Texans, and that's been the
liability for this Ravens team with all those injuries you mentioned,
and offensively, they just looked like they weren't in sync.
They were able to bottle up Dereck Henry once again,
(08:45):
and Cooper Rush looked rushed the entire game. And I
think that was just glaring. I mean, when's the last
time you've seen a Ravens team. I mean, now, the
defense has given up forty points. They gave up forty
points forty one one points to the Buffalo Bills in
the season opener, but that was a one point forty
one forty shootout. This was forty four to ten and
(09:08):
it was never close, right. They got blown out at
home at M and T Bank Stadium, a place that
they loved their home field advantage and they love, you know,
keeping keeping teams depressed when they play at home, defending
the home turf, and they got absolutely rated in that game.
(09:30):
And that was embarrassing. And so you know, if I'm
Lamar Jackson, I'm looking like, oh man, I need to
get healthy quick, or I need to ask for more money.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
Because this is what you got without me. So they
we are in trouble. They are four and ten without Lamar.
They have lost five games in a row without Lamar.
The thirty four point loss at home was the largest
home loss for Baltimore since twenty thirteen. It is only
(09:59):
the second time in the thirty year history the franchise
that they've begun one in four.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
The one hundred and seventy seven points allowed in the
first five games of the season a little rhetorical question
for the fans out there, do you know how many
times the Ravens have allowed one hundred and seventy seven
points over any five year stretch in the history of
their franchise. The answer is one you are looking at it.
(10:26):
They've never done.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
This this time ever.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
They are reeling, and you know, you look at Derrick Henry,
who came out of the blocks in that forty one
forty loss. You reference eighteen carries one hundred and sixty
nine yards. Since then against Cleveland eleven carries twenty three yards,
Detroit twelve carries fifty yards, Kansas City eight carries forty
(10:51):
two yards, Houston fifteen carries thirty three yards. They can't
get King Henry going now against Kansas City, you're behind,
you're throwing the football, you kind of take them out.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Of the game.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
But man, this is they are a confounding team right now,
even with the injuries right and again, to me, this underscores.
You know, people, look, I understand the Steelers and the
Steelers the Steelers stated a joke goal and the fans
expectations meshed to the point that ten and seven, nine
(11:26):
and eight getting the playoffs, losing the first round is
not what they want. But look what they've done with
you know, Duck Hodges and others at the quarterback position
and being able to find ways to win and not
get worked at home. Well, they got worked a few times,
but still managed to find a way to get themselves
(11:48):
into the playoffs and be relevant. You know, you look
around the league and teams with injury problems, they look
to be in serious trouble. Now as we know, one
week later, you know, Jake Browning goes out, throws three touchdowns,
one interception, Bengals win. Now we're looking at a three
and three Bengals team and we're thinking, oh, you know, hey,
they righted the ship and they're a good thing. They
(12:09):
got off to a fast start for the first time ever.
So these things change week from week. But as we
sit right now, you know, the rest of the division
is in trouble, Max.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
They are. They are for the vaunted and very skilled
division that we had, it's been long standing, one of
the toughest divisions in the NFL. Yeah, it's crumbling. It
crumbled in the month of September for all around us
except us, of course, right because we're the Steelers. So
(12:41):
let's just make sure we continually note that we are
in first place. We're firmly in first place. But we
do have you know, two of the next three weeks,
we do have division games coming up, So we have
the Browns coming up this weekend, we have Thursday night
football in since Natty coming up in mid October. So
(13:04):
that's where it's to put up or shut up time
for us because then absolutely that and then from there
that's where we show if we have true dominance. So
it's good at the moment, right because you know, as
Mike Tom will always say, you know, nobody's gonna feel
sorry for us, and you know, nobody wants to woe
is me about our problems. They're happy we have them.
(13:26):
But right now we don't have that problem. We are
sitting in control of our own destiny, which is something
we haven't had the most opportune time in the last
four or five years to actually be in this position,
right to actually control and be in the driver's seat
of the AFC North. It's usually been we've had we've
(13:49):
been neck and neck, or we've had a street fight
to get to it. But this time, as we sit
here starting in October, we now sit in a position
where we can try roll our own destiny and and
and on that path of the ultimate goal of getting
into the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
And again I would caution people, uh fans who want
to look at this stretch and think five and one man,
we're going to be five and one. Uh when we
turn off the TV set, actually, yeah, flip off the
radio after Mike Projuda's postgame show with Charlie Batch on
(14:27):
Thursday night.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Of course.
Speaker 6 (14:30):
Is it.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Don't turn it off before that, don't turn it off.
Turn that sound down in the TV. You know, it's
it's very very tempting Max to say, man, five and one,
let's rub the hands together. Man, here we go, you know,
and that and listen that could very well happen, and
that would be a that would be a remarkable place
(14:52):
to be. I still believe that you need to just win.
This is still it's always just win. But this is
really just win part of the season. Still, Oh, let's
see some I think we saw some pieces of the puzzle,
you know, falling in place. But again, to me, I
don't see the team that peaks in Week seven is
(15:16):
usually not going to win the super Bowl. You want
to have that build up, that crescendo as you reach
the playoffs. So it's still just about winning games and
finding a way to win games and hopefully finding beginning
to find more and more of an identity over this
next four or five game stretch. But boy, even though
I'm saying, don't think of five and one, man, that
(15:38):
would be a good place to be with two to
zero in the division, I just said not to do that.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Max, and I went there, what am I doing? What
am I doing?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Hey? Hey, let's just focus on being four and one
one another division? How about that? Okay?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That sounds good to me.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And look just real quick about the Bengals before we
get to break Max, Because this is our AFC cap
presented by UPMC, the official healthcare provider and the health
plan of the Pittsburgh's and we will we will look deeper,
but right now we're starting with this AFC North. We'll
continue this discussion after the break. But I look at
(16:13):
the Bengals man, and I just I don't know, you know,
Jake Browning had some success a couple of years ago
when Burrow got hurt, you know, looked to be solid.
But six touchdowns, eight interceptions, you don't have a great defense.
Even though they keep investing picks there, it just hasn't
paid off for him. I don't know whether you you know,
(16:37):
wait a week or two and then you know, you know,
throw into towel and say, let's make a bunch of moves,
and you know, you know, maybe trade Trey Hendrickson, think
about next year, or whether you go out now, or
maybe you do both. Maybe go out now and get
a low cost you know, I don't know what their
salary cap situations, but maybe go out and get a
Russell Wilson and think, hey, he can rest of all
(17:00):
down the field to our targets. He gives us a
chance to squeeze into the playoffs where maybe by that
time we can turn things back over to Joe Burrow.
I just don't know how they can let another season
go and not do something.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
No, and it's time that you've attacked your offensive backups.
Like they put so much money into their front line
guys that left no money for themselves on the back end,
and we're seeing it kind of live and in action that.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
This is.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
A what if Joe does not make it type of situation.
And Joe is is not that guy. He's not healthy consistently.
He can't help you. He can't help you when he's
injured and the guys behind him. Because you spend so
(17:56):
much money on Joe, Jamar and t you left nothing
for your for your backup covers, no emergency rations, right,
you know, And I think that is it's nice to
have one of everything, but sometimes you want a redundancy
for the for the and we always talk about this.
It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
(18:18):
And you know, for the Steelers, like right, we dealt
with adversity right at the beginning of the season, but
we had the best depth that we've ever had, and
that's why we were able to lose a Joey Porter
for an extended amount of time, but Deshaun Elliott for
an extended amount of time and Alice high Smith for
an extended amount of time, right because we had quality depth.
(18:42):
And that's what you're seeing being the issue around this
league and why teams are in these positions that they're
in is because they put so much money up front. Now, granted,
we're gonna come to a day where we're gonna have
to have a high paid quarterback, right you know, and
you're gonna have to deal with the haircut you'll have
to take for that. But for right now, while you
(19:03):
have an opportunity to do this, you can you can
build up everybody else because your quarterbacks don't cost as much.
And that's why a lot of teams get really you know,
over the top about man, when we draft a quarterback
in the first round, make sure you get that fifth
year option and everything else, and so you could keep
your salary low so you could build the rest of
the team. But these quarterbacks now they're like, nope, I
(19:25):
don't want the fifth year option. Those extensions are starting
to come faster. So what's the incentive to getting that
guy so early? Because you're gonna end up having to
cut elsewhere to make sure that you keep that top
flight quarterback in check if you want them for four, five,
six years down the road. And that's what the Bengals
(19:47):
are dealing with. But the Bengals wun on paid two
wide receivers, which I you know, I get it, you
like them a whole lot, but there's only one football
on the field at the end of the day's and
they're feeling it.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, you know, their roster construction, you know, and some
of the picks. You know, when you think about you know,
you spend first round picks on Miles Murphy, he hasn't
really done it yet. Shamar Stewart will See was a
first round pick this year, Chris Jenkins was a second
round pick, and you know, you're trying to find these
(20:20):
guys up front to be disruptive factors, and it's it's
still feels like it comes down to Trey Hendrickson and
they're trying to find that. They're trying to find the
balance in the in the middle of the fields. You
go out and sign a TJ. Slayton, But you know,
they're they're they just the defense isn't very good and
(20:41):
hasn't been very good. And you know, it got better
last year. You know, when they when they try to
switch things up a little bit or they're trying to
get better about it. I don't know how much better
they really were. They talked about getting better. It really
comes down to that team, just to me, really comes
down to Joe Burrow and the offense. And if you
(21:02):
don't have Joe Burrow, I'm sure they thought Jake Browning
was was was able to come in and do a
decent job. But he did a really good job that
the game Burrow got hurt. I suppose, you know, Max,
most teams are really not built to win without their
starting quarterback. Your starting quarterback goes down and you're in
(21:24):
a world of hurt. You're you're in big trouble, you know.
And again you look at you look at the job
the Steelers have done now that the I think that's
a mixture of the coaching staff and a better team
around you. You know, they've had Kenny Pickett, who's on
his you know whatever team now, and Duck Hodges and
(21:44):
other players who have not been established NFL starters. I
think a team can withstand a three or four game stretch,
but I think it's very difficult for the Bengals or
anybody to withstand a stretch in which you are out
quarterback is out for the long haul.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Yeah now, I mean, now you get a Sam Darnold situation, right,
that's the Golden Goose situation with a JJ McCarthy. But
those type of seasons don't happen a Nick Foles with
a Carson Wentz. Right, there's very specific moments and time,
but it's not a consistency and it's not guaranteed, and
you have to dig through the bargain pile to try
(22:24):
and find that one moonshot year. Right, Geno Smith when
he came to Seattle, it was not the vaunted guy.
Now he's looking like the same guy from the Las
Vegas Raiders as well. Right, So we've had these examples,
but these examples are few and far between, and these
are you know, the best record, you know that the
Minnesota Vik's ever had in their team history. The Eagles
(22:47):
win a Super Bowl, right with Nick Fole, Like I'm
talking about like crazy things. The Seahawks after Russell Wilson
make it to the playoffs like three straight years, Like
these are things that don't happen normally and and it's
tough to do that. Like you said, when you put
so much into the quarterback position, this is what you get.
And the reason why we've been able to win games
(23:08):
with those other guys and our team is because things
weren't disproportionate. You could go find a quality back up.
And also Duck Hodges, you didn't know what you were
gonna get with Duck Mason. You knew you spent a
third round pick on Mason, and Mason was able to
just be around and be the serviceable guy. Spot duty
has been great. And I think that's why you go
and you bring a guy like that back, because I
(23:30):
would rather have a proven guy, a known guy, than
an X factor guy where you don't know what you're getting.
And so that's why the Steelers have been able to
kind of use the carousel of guys. And also you
had the personnel around you to support that guy. They
don't have that personnel to support that guy. Like Joe Burrow,
even though he was paid all that money, they still
(23:52):
never really fix their offensive line. It was still crappy.
And so now you put a lesser quarterback in there,
and this is what the reality looks like. Realize how bad.
You know, you've been with your offensive line management and
you haven't been able to get the right group in there,
because a good offensive line covers all those ills. So
it is, it is, this is but this is the
(24:13):
league we live in. This is the era we live in.
For for the NFL is the age of the quarterback.
Something else has to give.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And I agree all the way. I mean, they went
out and signed Dalton Reisner and they were hoping that
he was gonna, you know, be able to as a
long time starter for the Vikings, you know, solid football player.
They spent a first round pick on a Marius Mimes
at right tackle left to Orlando Brown. It feels like
they're just trying to, Hey, if we can solidify this
offensive line, get Chase Brown, going have Joe Burrow. But
(24:45):
when you have all that money, you know, tied up
in the quarterback position, something's gonna give. And the frankly,
the roster management just it just hasn't been great for him.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
It just has not.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
The defense with all the picks that they put into it,
you know, the first round picks, all the and second
round picks, the DJ Turners, the Dax Hills, the Cam
Taylor Britz and some of these guys are good football
players Demetrius Knight this year, you know, we mentioned Murphy
and Stewart. When you put that many first round picks
into a defense, you expect that defense to be a
(25:18):
heck of a lot better than the Bengals defense. You
expect them to be able to go out and maybe
win you a game or two, and that just hasn't happened.
So anyway, listen, we have much more in depth to
get to, but we are we're getting a little tardy
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Speaker 1 (26:14):
This is in the Locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
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Speaker 2 (26:35):
And we're continuing our AFC recap presented by UPMC, the
official healthcare provider and health plan of.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
The Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
So, Max, we've been kind of diving into the AFC
North and we can get back into that a little bit,
but I did want to get around the rest of
the AFC. The Colts just worked over the Raiders. Now
we have seen so first of all, tell me about that.
What did you are the Colts for real?
Speaker 4 (27:06):
I think, until otherwise noted, you have to take him
at face value. They are for real. Daniel Jones Indiana
Jones has been his nickname as of late, has done
his job. He's done exactly what the Colts have wanted.
He knows how to distribute the football around to the
different players. Jonathan Taylor has been playing out of his mind.
(27:27):
He had a heck of a game yesterday. But this
team is playing complimentary football. And when you look at
the AFC South, let's think about this. You know where
they stack up. They're leading their division right now. The
Texas had that great win yesterday, but the Texas have
been a mess all season so far. So that's your
(27:50):
stiffest competition. Jacksonville. We don't know what Jacksonville is. Jacksonville
is probably the next one pushing it, but Jacksonville has
not really impressed. You just kind of like, oh they won,
not like oh man, they won, you know type of deal. So,
and then Tennessee is Tennessee. I mean they got their
first victory of the season yesterday against the Cardinals, you know,
(28:12):
at the last second, by one point. And so when
you look at that division, I mean, Indianapolis is the
only team that looks put together and looks comparable and
looks competent as a team. So I say, as of
right now until otherwise noted, you know, take them at
phase value. That is, that is a good team that's
(28:32):
threatening to push for the AFC South crown.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
And you know you mentioned Jonathan Taylor. Uh you know,
terrific player obviously. And also look they're leading receiver right
now and they've got you know, they've got Pittman and
they've got some other guys, but they're leading receivers. Tyler
Warren first round pick tight end. I mean, that's it.
That's winding up looking like a really good pick.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah it is. I mean, well, we knew who he
was for Pitt State. I mean that's right. Yeah, I
mean he was the guy last year on that playoff run,
like I mean, he could be triple covered and Tyler
Warren was still going to get the ball from Drew Roller, right.
He was just that dude. I mean, the most powerful,
you know, most I would say dominant tight end since
(29:19):
brock Bowers. And that's that's the ilk that Tyler Warren
comes from. And you know he's he's still proving it
right now. He doesn't have the numbers like brock Bowers
did his rookie year, but when you talk about being clutch,
got to have a moment, Tyler Warren's has been that
guy and has been stepping up in that position. Well.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
The other thing I think about the about the Colts,
which is what I why I think this could be
sustainable is that. You know, Look, they lost Ryan Kelly
and they lost Will Fryes in free agency, but they've
been drafting to replace those guys, and you know, guys
have stepped in against Solves at right, Ard Bordolini at center.
(30:02):
You know, and you know, so Gonsalves is a guy
that obviously we we know about here in in in
Pittsburgh as a former Panther. You know, look, they've got
the offensive line and if Daniel Jones can show him something,
you know, Alec Pierce, you know, Michael Pittman. They've got
(30:23):
you know, they've got a decent, you know, core of guys.
But I think they can sustain what they're doing. Look,
not forty points a game, but you know, you get
a good offensive line, you get a quarterback with first
round pedigree who suddenly gets dropped behind a good offensive line,
unlike what Daniel Jones had in New York. You know,
we're seeing quarterbacks kind of on that second team, uh,
(30:47):
you know, whether it's or third or fourth team. Baker Mayfield,
Sam Darnold, other guys that have you know, Geno Smith,
that have found success a little bit later on in
their career. And maybe Daniel Jones is going to be
the latest guy. But he's got a good offense to line,
a very good offensive line, a great running back, an
outstanding rookie tight end, and a solid receiving corps.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
And that's what you and it goes to show you
that solid roster construction, competent roster construction can yield good results.
You don't have to have the splash. And I think
everybody gets so overly concerned with the splash guys, the
big guys. Those guys are great and you always want
(31:31):
to have them, and you hope that you draft them
versus going out in free agency and acquiring them, because
that's when the rest of the team suffers when you
have to go make that type of big time play. Now,
for the Steelers, when we went and got DK, we
were in a position because because our salary cap was
(31:51):
at a very good place where we could do that,
right because we hadn't had to pay that quarterback since
been retired, and we've had a lot of young guys.
One year, your guy rentals that we able to put
a bunch of them together, right, you know. Last year,
you know you package a Russell Wilson and a Justin
Fields well, up until two weeks ago. Both those guys
(32:12):
left the team and were starting for their respective teams.
They started a season for their respective teams, right, and
we were able to get them for what less than
twelve million dollars. I want to say, So, you found
the deal, the bargain in that situation, and that doesn't
happen all the time because normally you want a draft
(32:32):
the guy, you want to groom him through and as
he's depressed, build the other things. Sign, Sign your sign
your deals, get your guys in place for the long haul,
and now you can go get a DK Metcalf and
free agency, right, and then you can find a late
round trade opportunity and tag on a little bit for
(32:52):
Jalen Ramsey. You know, you find a good deal on
Darius Slay Kenneth Gainwell, right, you find these guys at
the Juan Thornhill. You know you re sign Deshaun Elliott
for a good contract, not a ridiculous contract. That's the way,
that's the nature of the game, and that's what Omar
Khan does really well. When you talk about numbers and
(33:14):
putting the puzzle together, He's he's a master ace. He's
putting on a master classes. He's taken over his GM
with being able to turn over a roster get great talent.
Between him and Andy Widel and Sheldon White and company,
they've been able to construct this roster and find the
value in the guys who fit the scheme right, find
(33:36):
the right puzzle piece, find the round peg for the
round hole, find the square peg for the square hole,
not vice versa. You don't switch those pieces up. And
I think that's what's been so good about the Steelers
and why we could say that because we have layered contracts.
We didn't just bring in a whole new squad. Remember
when the Browns did that five or six years ago,
they bought the number one roster, they won the offseason, right,
(34:01):
Daniel Sider, It was every every brand new car off
the lot was shiny, beautiful and everything else. And then
they end up being lemons. They're in the shop more
than they're out on the road. And that's and that's
what I will tip my cap to for the Steelers
not only finding those players, but those players being fits
(34:23):
and for more often than not, health being on their side.
So it's been it's been great to watch and that's
why we sit here today, you know, you get a
value on Aaron Rodgers when nobody else really saw the
value we did. And man, it's paying dividends. And now
this team's starting to meld together. You're starting to see
them all come together. And I told you it's gonna
take time, right, I said, Rob, I was saying, what
(34:45):
first six weeks of the season, right, then I can
give you my assessment right, well, just on.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
The team in general in general. You also mentioned that
about the old line, which I think I.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Brought that up. Well, the line has to meld. O
line has to meld, and I think we saw we're
seeing them mature. So they're moving. Because as your O
line goes, so shall your team. So the old line,
you know, is the heartbeat of the entire squad because
what the old line does trickles to the defense, right
Because if you're sustaining drives, guess what your defense is
(35:17):
doing sitting on the bench. And if your old line
is protecting guess what balls driving down field to your receivers.
Lanes are opening up for your running back. And so
the offensive line is very critical. I always said they're
the heartbeat, or they're the cadence drum for for a team.
Remember you know back of military terry times, right, the
(35:39):
little drummer boys, right, they kept the pace when the
when the when the soldiers were marching. Yep, that's what
the office is up. Up the bump bump, bump, right,
that's the beat and the pace left left, left, right, left.
You want to have that, and that's what the old
line provides. So the O line coming together brings the
(36:01):
rest of the team together as well. And so that's
what you're seeing now. And you know, our last board
meeting before I give an assessment comes this Sunday at
Aforsure against the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Right, and you've you've brought up what I think is
an absolutely fascinating topic, one that interests me a great deal,
and one which we will get to after the break,
because we got to take a break. You're in the
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Steelers Pro Shop on Steelers Nation Radio, part of the
Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
This is in the Locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
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dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
All right, well, thank you very much for being with
us in the locker room.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
And you know, Max, you're talking about the quarterback position
and talking about roster construction, and this is one that
I think is always interesting in that, by and large,
if you are picking high in a draft and can
and can select that franchise quarterback, you are by definition
(37:25):
a bad football team, or you certainly had a bad year.
Every once in a while you have a team that
you know, everything goes wrong, you have a bad record,
and hey, this is a great year to be picking eighth.
We're not really that bad of a team. But when
you pick high, you you have a bad team around
(37:45):
that young quarterback. And so if you draft Baker Mayfield
or Sam Darnold or another quarterback, you're probably not very good.
Now if you get a Sea or Bryce Young for example,
so you get C. J. Straft to get Jayden Daniels.
Now are those guys lifting a team up or are
they getting into a better situation than you would expect.
(38:08):
This whole notion that you have to tank to get
one of those guys. I think we saw the Chiefs
for twelve and four and traded up and got Patrick Mahomes.
The Bills were nine to seven, they traded up and
got Josh Allen. So what was happening was that those
players Mahomes and Allen, when they were ready to play,
(38:29):
they had a good team around them. And the best
thing you can probably possibly be in the NFL is
a good roster with a young quarterback who is ready
to play and ready to compete at the highest level.
Because that guy's not cost you anything. Four years from now,
he's going to cost you fifty five million dollars a year.
Right now, he's not costing you. He's only costing you
(38:50):
a couple million dollars a season. So this when to
get the quarterback? How to get him? I mean, if
you're a lousy team and you think that quarterbacks the
next Ben Rossisburger or Tom Brady, you have to pick them, right.
But man, it just seems to me to be a
much better situation to have a young quarterback trade up
(39:10):
and get him, give up what you got to give up,
and now that young quarterback comes into a position kind
of like Ben Roethlisberger. Even though the Steelers were coming
off a bad year.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
He stepped in.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
He didn't have to do it all. There was a
good team already in place.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Yeah, And I think when you look at Ben, Ben
is one of those classes of things where you built
the rest of the team around them and sert quarterback
here right, drop him into a good system. And also,
I don't need Ben throwing the ball thirty five times
a game. I need him to be twenty to twenty five.
(39:48):
Use the run game, stay balanced, Let the run game
free up the options for Ben to go up against
single high man coverages, not dropping into creative zone packages.
You know, cover two was prevalent back when he was there,
Cover two man quarters, Cover three wasn't really as big,
(40:08):
and so you can play with that. You know, Tampa
two was huge, right. You know, Mike backers dropped to
the middle of the field, like all these defensive structures
that you know would frustrate most young quarterbacks. Because you
have a good, solid run game and you had a
great offensive line in front of you, you negated most
of that because teams needed to play with the eighth
man in the box, because you had Duce Staley and
(40:30):
you had your own medics in the backfield, right right.
I mean that as a heck of a duo. And
if you play too high on on the Steelers, they're
gonna run it down your throat. And so that all
helped the maturation for Ben in his process. And now
we're coming in and we're saying, well, we're drafting number
one overall because we are crap, or we're number two
(40:51):
overall we're crap. And now we have to like dump
dump this young guy in the middle of a bad
team that hasn't been properly constructed. We probably would wouldn't
need a quarterback if we had a better offensive line
at times, right, or if we have better weapons, but
we don't. And now we're asking you to do everything.
We're asking you to be superman. That's why duel threat
quarterbacks are so desirable, right, because they can run in
(41:13):
pass and they can make up for the deficiencies on
your offense if you don't have a good run game.
That was not the case with Kansas City. Like you said,
with Patrick Mahomes, you had Alex Smith, you had a
solid run game. Travis Kelce was young, vibrant, He was
the only receiver that could actually find the end zone.
On Kansas City's team, it felt like. But they were
(41:34):
a good team and they traded up and they said, no,
we need something to enhance this even further. For the
good base that we have, let's add to that base
with dropping in the quarterback. I'd rather have it and
not need it than to need it and not have it.
And for Josh Allen as well, Right, you still had EJ. Manual.
He was still solid, serviceable. You're an okay team, but
(41:56):
you were that five hundred flirting with five hundred team
and you needed a boost, and so you inserted Josh Allen.
And it takes about a year. But then from year
one to year two there's a jump, and then year
two to year three there's an even bigger jump. And
you already had the old line in place, you already
had the running backs in place, you had receivers in place.
(42:17):
Then you started acquiring some guys and now you're now
the Buffalo Bills that we know today. That's how it
that's how it's supposed to work. But when you do
like the Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold or Zach Wilson
or Mac Jones or Bryce Shaw. Now the list can
go on in all right, I mean of failed quarterback experiments.
(42:40):
When you have a bad team and you're expecting the
quarterback to be the band aid for everything on a team,
it usually doesn't work. Exception being a c. J. Stroud,
But a CJ. Stroud, Remember also had a Will Anderson
drafted the top five. So you drafted a top a
number one quarterback right, and a number one the best
(43:01):
defensive player in the draft. And those two together with
a brand new coach and an overhauled roster that got
decimated by Bill O'Brien before he left, and just absolutely
they were a dumpster fire down there. Right, it's solidified itself.
Jade and Daniels. You had a decent roster, but Jane
(43:21):
Daniels made that roster better. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
And he might be the next guy, right, Yeah, he
might be the wonder kid. Right, he might be the
next superstar. And and that's why you have to take
those guys. But you just wonder how many guys were ruined.
I mean, it's it's just a fascinating position to me.
It's a fascinating you know, So Baker Mayfield, can he
(43:45):
win it all?
Speaker 4 (43:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
We don't know that yet about Baker Mayfield. We don't
know that yet about Sam Darnold. Are they the kind
of teams that can the kind of players that can
elevate a team into the playoffs, into the super Bowl
and win it. Not every quarterback who wins the Super
Bowl is of that caliber. I think there's a lot
of people that that are that wonder. Hey, you know,
(44:08):
Jalen Hurts, is he really of that Patrick mahomes uh,
Josh Allen type of caliber? You might you might ask
that question about Lamar even with winning the MVPs, because
he hasn't been able to do it in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
Can you and what are you win it?
Speaker 2 (44:25):
For some franchises, Max, we know would be delighted to
win some games, get into the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Woohoo.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's a it's a cause of celebration. In Pittsburgh. Super
Bowls are celebrated.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
You go to the playoffs, nobody's throwing a parade for you.
You go to other cities, hey man, they might start saying, hey,
here's where the parade route starts and ends. We made
the playoffs, so expectations are different. You know what, We
have to pick up this discussion on the other side
of the break, because it's a it's one that has
fascinated me for years, and I really want to hear
what you had to say about it, but we can't
(45:00):
do it now because we have to go to break.
You're in the Locker Room, presented by your neighborhood Ford
Store and the Steelers Pro Shop on Steelers Nation Radio,
a part of the Steelers Audio Network.
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