October 9, 2025 • 48 mins
Rob and Max focus on the Browns' defense and the matchup issues they will try to cause in the first divisional game for the Steelers.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is in the locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
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Shop at shop dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh, there we go. That is the sweet sound of Optimists.
But more importantly, it's the power hour.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
That's right our number two here inside the locker room,
and we are pushing forward towards Sunday after shure one o'clock.
Those browns of Putting Bay, Ohio are coming over to Pittsburgh.
And I call that Putting Bay affectionately because I think
(00:59):
that's probably the best part of Ohio outside of Columbus,
where my beautiful bride is from. That's the only part
in the Eastern Ohio I guess I should say that
I like especially Well, no, I take that back, because
I do like Warren. That's when my father was born,
you know, I do like Lima. My uncle was born there,
So you know, third best part of I guess Eastern
(01:21):
Ohio would be put In Bay. You know, as I
kind of think of this, I mean, you know, my distaste, disdain,
dis everything for things that are Cleveland, even when Lebron
was there, and I like Lebron. Lebron's an awesome guy,
really nice person. Has done a lot for the city
(01:44):
of Cleveland. You know, he's he's a he's a he's
a great humanitarian. But I didn't like him when he
was on the calves, you know, because he was in Cleveland.
So so I'll just go with that and we'll just
stay there with with with that one.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But you know, Putting Bay is way better than Cleveland.
Cleveland sucks.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
So we got we gotta, I gotta, I got a
couple as long as we're making, you know, good things,
because you've had some caveats for family members. Swenson's, I
don't know if you've ever been to a Swinson's US.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
We gotta know, yeah from Justin Milkers. Did that come
out over Justin?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Just hey, voice of God, Voice of God.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Justin just gave out a oh yeah, like the yeah
off the air Burgers shakes Fries.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
It's like a sort of a I don't know what
you'd call it, like a little bit it's like a
drive in versus a drive through. You park your car. There,
somebody comes out to take your order. They bring out
a hamburger, fries, and a and a milkshake. They're really good.
Swinston's really good. They have like great milkshakes and stuff.
I got turned on to those when I was doing
(02:52):
a basketball game and my color analysts had gone to
Akron and he's like, hey, have you ever been And
I said no.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
And he said, get in the car, let's go.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
So between the morning shoot around in the game that
night we went to the Swinton's. Swinton's is good, Tony Paco's,
and Toledo's if anyone's ever been there.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Klinger mentioned that.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
On Mash they have they have stuffed cabbage, incredible kind
of their sort of Toledo's version of Promantes is about
the closest I could say, even though it's not really
a sandwich.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
It's an imperfect connection. But local, really good.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And and you gotta at least give Cleveland the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Once again.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I can give them a building and a museum, all right,
but once again, most of America probably isn't saying, oh
my god, I can't wait to go to Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
To the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
You like, you end up in Cleveland, you say, oh yeah,
I'm gonna go to the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame because that's.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
What you're looking for in that moment.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like it's it's not
that destination. Pilger say, Hey, we're driving cross country.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We got to go through Cleveland. Well let's stop at
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on the way.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Say we got to gas up in Cleveland. You know
what I'm saying, Like, it's not You're not going to
Cleveland for Cleveland, you know, you have to find something
else associated And sure, frankly, I don't even know how
Cleveland got the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Let's
just be honest. Here is because it felt bad for them,
and you know, and.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
There's some sort of connection there. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It's the dirtiest of the Five Lakes, you know, the
Great Lakes, it's the dirtiest one. You know what I'm saying, Like,
there's not there's not a lot of appeal in that
city stand alone.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
I don't remember there's a story for it. I don't
remember why, you know, I think I think Mitch Ryder's
from there. I think there's some people.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I think there's the Cuyahoga River, like burn.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
The water literally in flames. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
It wasn't and it wasn't Greek fire, you know what
I'm saying, Like that's the mythological history thing, Like it
wasn't Greek fire that happened, Like it's literally that contaminy
that it could it could just burn at any moment,
you know, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
This wasn't Game of Thrones.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
This This was not you know, an old you know,
ancient battle like this. This is like recent history, like
you know, these are the type of things that come
to mind when I think of Cleveland outside of you know,
the Browns and yeah, so I so once again, I
get food is always going to be it. I mean,
food is your only solace when you live in a
(05:31):
place like that. So, yes, you know, I saw Jameis
Winston when he went to us Winston's and he lost
his mind there, couldn't believe how good the food was.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
But I can go I can go find Burgers anywhere,
you know what I'm saying, Like, it's.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Not there's also place. There's also a place in the don't.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
You have like a chipped beef for something like that?
I don't know it's or some type of yeah, or
there's some type of pastrami. There's something I know they
have good. But Bentley took me there.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
They have a sandwich at a friend of mine who's
from Cleveland, and she said that she claimed that there's
a place in the flats, the Cleveland Flats that had
a Primanny's type of sandwich and wanted to say.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
That it was that it was originally that it was first.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
And I was like, see, see, that's that's where we
got problems.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
That's stop trying to claim things that ain't yours exactly.
You know, it's just no no, uh, cease and desist.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Can I put a season desist out for you?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Could you could put assist?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
So uh Again. I always think of our buddy Craig
Wolf when we when we bring up the food. Wolf
was extremely passionate about football and food. He was he
was into it.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
So faith, family, football, then food. It was a strong football,
a strong third and football strong fourth and food. But
I would argue that football and food were like three
A and three B.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Right, yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
So you mentioned this the the offensive line for the
Steelers now, Aaron Rodgers. So you know, we've had a
couple of people come on and talk about the offensive
line being better. Jerry Dulac just the most recent saying
the Steelers offensive line improved in Minnesota against Minnesota in Dublin.
(07:30):
And I think they did, and I think they are
getting better. I also think that, you know, part of
that was Spencer Anderson getting a number of snaps and
being part of a jumbo package. It allows you to
run the ball better. And by the way, I don't
care what allows you to run the ball better. It
doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Just as long as you run the ball better.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
As long as you run the ball better, and hopefully
the offensive line, you know, as you've cautioned, Hey, give
these guys, you know, five six weeks to find their footing.
Roderick Jones knew it. Left tackle Troy Foultano new to
the NFL and also new to the right tackle position.
He played left tackle in college. I know we went
through it in camp last year and this year and
played a game last year in Denver before he got hurt.
(08:10):
But he's new to the position and communication and geling
on the offensive line. These things don't always happen immediately.
It's wonderful when they do, but they usually take some time.
But having said that, you know this Cleveland Brown's front
is really good. And you know, I know that, you know,
(08:30):
you can look at a score and say, jeez, they
really got you know, blown out in a game, you know,
against Baltimore, they have a punt block, they have an
interception return, you know, just costly. The offense was just awful,
absolutely awful. Couldn't give the defensive break. I think that
(08:52):
if you give this defensive break, it's a really good defense.
They are very difficult to run against. Their the number
one rush defense in the NFL. And when I look
at these names, you know, you have everyone knows about
Miles Garrett, who By the way, again I've told you
for people that are new to the program, I have
my own, you know, way of watching film, and I
(09:14):
like to keep the last couple of games till closer
to kickoff for my you know, for my own purposes.
But I've watched three other five games thus far, and
in the games that I've seen, Miles Garrett has been incredible.
I mean he is playing at a very he only
has four sacks, right, people look at that out for sacks.
In fact, he's playing at a extremely high level, and
(09:38):
that's probably having a trickle down effect on first rounder
Mason Graham, who I think has also looked very good
and disruptive. Malik Collins, who was assigning you know that
his career high in sacks is five. He's a veteran,
he's been around for a while, been a solid player.
He's got three and a half sacks this year. He
looks like a different guy, and Miles Garrett probably has
(10:01):
an effect on that. Graham was taking fifth overall, so
you're expecting big things out of him. Isaiah McGuire, Alex
Wright's been disruptive. Cameron Thomas has been good. Shelby Harris.
They like to rotate guys in there. Shelby Harris has
been solid, even guys like Aiden Huntington who don't play
a bunch of snaps. We'll see him on playing fullback
this week too. By the way, undrafted guy, he's got
(10:24):
an impact. I don't know whether it might call a
second round pick last year. He's been limited in practice
the last couple of weeks. He hasn't still hasn't made
his debut this year after sufferting a really suffering a
really nasty knee injury last year. He's still not made
it all the way back. But he could come back.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Max.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
What I'm saying is it's a formidable front four and
it's a four man front, and it's good. It's it's
very good.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
In fact, Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I think this is, you know, a team that you
can not overlook, you cannot take for granted. Seattle Seahawks,
you know, I'm just I'm still going back to the
rankings again. The Seattle Seahawks, you know, are a very
(11:16):
similar team.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
You want to run the ball effectively then use it
to set up the pass. That's what's gonna help Dylan Gabriel.
And one of the things we struggle with and week two,
or I should say the last time we were in
extra stadium was stopping the run. And this is a
team that's going to absolutely try and jam the ball
down your throas to eliminate or limit the exposure of
(11:39):
Dylan Gabriel to the pass rush. Right, because you don't
know what you have at left tackle. It's been it's
been a rotating door. Cam Robinson's trying to get up
to speed for you. You know, Jack Conklin's old, so
you know when you put TJ, you put Alex high
Smith potentially coming back, Jack Sawyer and Nate and Nick
Herbig on the end like that.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's a lot of stress.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
And now you've got to dedicate Harrol Fanin or David
and Joku to staying in chip blocking. Juckin's gonna have
to chip block before getting out. And then you still
got to deal with the interior defensive line of ours.
So you know, but Tonio and company, yep, they're good.
They'll have their moments, so you know, but you still
got to deal with Keanu Ben and Derek harmon Ya,
(12:22):
Black Logan, Lee and Company in the interior on top
of and Cam Heyward on top of what's going on
on the outside. So you're gonna want to run the
ball to try and quell some of that. You know,
I'd always talk about the tender riser, right, like how
do you stop a good pass rush run the ball effectively?
And that's what they're going to try and do. So
last time an aftersure you didn't have a great outing.
But yet you know you've learned from those mistakes because
(12:45):
the next the next two games after that, you did
really well. So hopefully they continue on that same type
of slide. But that's what you're combating. I mean, the
both defensive lines in this game are the true strong
points in the offensive lines, there's still questions until you've
quelled that fire. I always said this, once you put
it on tape, you have you have the next month
to deal with it. And this is still in that
(13:06):
month from the fallout from the Seattle game. So you
must do everything in your power to minimize the exposure
of quin Son Juckets, to minimize the exposure of what
Miles Garrett can do, to minimize what these guys do well.
And I think Mason Graham's playing well because he's been
he's been paired mostly opposite Miles Garrett. Guess who gets
the double team of the two, It's going to always
(13:28):
be Miles Garrett. And I think the same thing happened
in college with Mason Gren. The reason why Mason Graham
looks so good and why I wasn't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Too high on him, he never got the double team
because his partner.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah, Grant got all of the double teams that he
got the single blocks. So the similar system that he
thrived in in Michigan's what he's dealing with now in Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
So that's what makes him look even better.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
You put a double team on him, he goes poop
kuputs And that's what you have to figure out.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You like that, you like that.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
I don't know what that means, but I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Hey, it's not good. It's not good.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's like a lemon car, you know what I'm saying.
When you try and turn the car over, you.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Just poop kaputtz. It's done. It's dead.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
That's when you have to go find a new engine.
But that's what you're that's what you're dealing with. That's
what you're gonna have to work on. And however the
scheme goes, you know, whether you're running two miles with
a double team, whether you're running away from them, whether
you're using Spencer Anderson, whether you're using Darnold Washington, however,
you're gonna do it whatever you can do to minimize
that and keep two double teams in this game, whether
(14:32):
run or pass. That's going to be key to the
success for the Steelers.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
So I agree. I think everything starts there for both teams.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Since I kind of started in that direction, let's begin
this discussion, which I think is the most vital part
of the game on in the trenches on both sides.
I mean, it's usually obviously important, but I think it's
extra important in this game for both teams. You know,
when you look at at this front for Cleveland, you've
(15:04):
got and to me, I agree with you. I think
that Mason Graham versus h Mason McCormick is is going
to be the battle of the Masons is going to
be really interesting. And I think on the other side,
ciamalo on Malie Collins, Malie Collins has.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Been really good.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I think if you if you watched the games and
didn't know that Malie Collins had a long track record
of being more solid than anything else, you might think
he's the second best player on the on the defense.
By the way, Sweesterns is really good too, the rookie,
but Malie Collins has been a disruptive for three and
(15:45):
a half sacks and so and the other guys you
know McGuire on the outside of Alex Right and the
other guy's opposite for Miles Garrett clearly, and and the
whole line benefiting from the fact that they're not getting doubled.
Miles Garrett is going to be the guy who gets doubled. Then,
by the way, has still been uh, just very very
difficult to deal with. But I have noticed one thing
(16:07):
that those two guys in the middle. This is something
I wanted to ask you about. Max Malik Collins and
Mason Graham do a lot of twists.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
I think you call those T T twists. Correct?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
The two tier is T T or T or what
we call a ton or a nut. It depends on
if there's a nut actually at the nose position.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Yeah, well we see.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
You know, Garrett has also done some looping around to
the inside. But it seems like they get those guys moving.
So what what makes that difficult? When when when guys
do a stunt, And by the way, if you catch
guys in one of those stunts and you call a
running play, you might have a hole the size of
(16:47):
you know, Rhode Island to run through if you're catching
them in the twist.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
But in passing.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Situations, what makes that difficult when you have a twist
is it communication, Well.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It's communication, and then also the direction of the twist right.
Say you're running left and the front side guy that's
on that left A or B gap stunts to the inside,
the natural inclination. If you're working a double team, you
turn back and then there's a guy looping over the top.
Now you've created this gap, right because say your left
guard goes to try and take that three technique, but
(17:19):
then he comes down and you're trying to pass him
off to the center and you have a guy looping
right over your shoulder. Your job's normally going up to
the backer, but now this D lineman is now in
your way and you're and you're trying to catch him.
And also you don't know, and that's what creates those gaps.
So either the linebacker comes through or that D tackle
comes free in the A or B gap. That's the
(17:41):
biggest thing. Now when flow is to you, say the
three technique is slanning, you know, or is looping backwards,
and the backside guy is the one that's knifing. It
makes it a little bit easier because now that guard
and center block now becomes a center and backs guard block,
and that guy's looping away from the action, So now
(18:02):
you create a free lane for that guard to go
up and get the backer. So it can work either way.
That's where the confusion is. Depending on how they run
the stunt can determine success or failure or the quandary.
The quandary becomes on the defense when they loop away.
It becomes a quandary on the offense when they loop
towards and they guess correct. So like I say, oh,
(18:24):
they guess right on the twist, you know, because they
played it into the run properly. Those are the things
that you get into. And that's the biggest that's the
biggest right off the top situation or issue you have
to deal with.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
How about in a straight shotgun situation, it's third and eight.
You know you're probably going to pass the ball, so
you're in a shotgun. You might even go empty set.
And now they run that twist, so you know you
got Miles Garrett coming on the outside right. So now
the left tackle, Roderick Jones, got to deal with him.
(18:57):
You're not gonna leave him alone. You're probably going to him.
I don't know whether you're gonna ask for help from
your guard.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
Or what. You're gonna do.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
And I don't know whether that you know, maybe that's
one of the reasons that they twist if the guard
goes out there to help them, But usually I think
would be a tight end giving him a chip or
running back, backing up or chipping or helping behind that
tackle to block a guy like Miles Garrett. So you
got Miles Garrett coming from that side, you're Broderick Jones.
Now you have Cimalow, you have Frasier, and you have
(19:29):
McCormick to block Collins and Graham right, and then the
right tackle is going to be on Foutown is going
to be on say Isaiah.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Maguire on that side.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
What makes that twist difficult for those three guys in
the middle, the tackle tackle twist, because again we've seen
them run some of these twists, and these are guys
Collins and Graham can both move. So what makes that
difficult to pick up? And why has it been effective
for Cleveland and why would it be effective for any team?
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Well, I think I think when you look at that
twist in a passing situation, it changed, it redistributes or
redictates the terms on how you're going to attack somebody
so you know that becomes now, okay, can we can
we pass this off? Usually in a passing situation, it
(20:23):
but you know you want to say this, and I
say this very gingerly when I make this assessment. But
it becomes a little bit easier in those moments because
you're backing up. So therefore things are happening in front
of you. As long as you give yourself space on
the twist, that's what happens. The problem where a twist
(20:46):
becomes good is when you get on different levels.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So say it's an et stunt, So.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Roderick Jones has Miles Garrett on the outside, he sets
Miles Garrett takes his two set nuts gets out to
a forty five to figure out the intersection point. Well,
Miles immediately takes an inside move. Your tackle's moving at depth.
Your guard has a tackle right on him, so he's
going to go on a phone booth fight. So now
he's further on the line of scrimmage. That separation between
(21:16):
the garden tackle, that lane that's created because of the
separation is what is what makes us tough. Because if
that three technique is looping to the outside, so your
defensive end is crashing to the inside that three technique
that the guard is setting on the line of scrimmage.
For loops, that's what we call a pick because when
a defensive end takes that half, he's trying to hit
(21:37):
the hip of the guard. He's not focused on the
tackle at all. He's trying to create a salad board
for the guard to kind of squeeze off the point,
almost like when you try and squeeze off a garden
hose that's at full blast. If I can, if I
can pinch it and prevent that guard from from getting
square with me and getting two hands on me, and
I catch the corner of the guy, I catch either
(21:58):
near shoulder or the hit of the guard. He can't
block me. It's like pinning your arm in when you're
sitting in the window seat of an airplane, right, you know,
it's like, hey, can you get this? Ah?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Now, I'm kind of pinned.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
There's a guy in the middle seat that's kind of
pushing me into the window and the windows there, and
I can't move outside the window. That's what they're trying
to create, that pinch point. And that's when you get
two different levels and you get two guys blocking none
because the tackle is now turned the inside. He's given
away his high hip and he's now had to turn
(22:31):
on an angle. Well, guess what, when you turn on angle,
you give a free lane to the inside, and then
the guard gets picked off. And now even if you
do imagine you could actually repinch Miles Garrett off. Well,
guess what, Mason Graham, Malik Williams, whoever is coming on
the loop, is now scott free because now you've got
two guys occupying one and the second guy is running
(22:52):
scott free. That's where you get the issue. But if
in a passing play you kind of see it, you
understand what the ques are. Okay, Miles tilted a little
bit further inside. You know his inside hand is back
versus his outside hand. Okay, that changes the angle. So
now he can leave, you know, a lot quicker and
make that move to the inside. You could just both
set off the ball equally, and now you create a
(23:14):
wall so you can see that twist happening in real time,
and now you're better served to keep a two for
two blocking angle. So I know they got a little
bit high level there in my explanation, Rob, but you
asked for it, so I gave it to you.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
No, because we're gonna see it. Max, We're gonna see it.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
We're gonna see it with Miles Garrett, We're gonna see
it with Graham and Collins, particularly if they have trouble
you know, getting you know, getting to the quarterback. So listen,
man I, it's keep an eye on that people. We're
gonna listen. We're gonna continue to break down. I think
we'll probably need to spend the rest of this program
(23:49):
talking about the Browns defense and what they what they
can do, and what the students can do to combat them,
because they've got some talented players on that. First, we
want to remind you that you can gear up with
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Get the latest Sideline apparel, jerseys, Terrible towels, authentic memorabilia,
(24:10):
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Visit one of the official Students Pro shops located at
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Get it direct from the team at the Steelers Pro
shop at shop dot Steelers dot com. Back with more
(24:32):
in the Locker Room presented by your neighborhood Ford Store
and the Steelers Pro Shop on Steelers Nation Radio apart
of the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
This is in the Locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at Shop
down Steelers dot com.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
And thanks very much for being with us inside the
locker room alongside Max Starks. I'm Rob King. Max.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
We are kind of breaking down this Browns defense, which
is the number one rushing defense in the NFL.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
This is a stingy team and.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Will provide a stern test for the students who are
looking to improve on a running game that look the
best it has all season really in London against the Vikings.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, it's it's a group that's going to be a challenge.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You know, they do they do a couple of things
really well, and you know, running and blocking against the
run is kind of their hallmark and for a young
team that's trying to figure it out, that's moved on
from their veteran quarterback and is now going with the
Dylan Gabriel experience. You've got to be ready for the unknown.
(26:01):
You've got to be ready for the challenge that they're
going to bring in. You know, they they pride themselves
and being tough, They pride themselves and being physical. Well,
now now they got to go out and prove it.
They got to go and put up in this moment.
So it's going to be no walk in the park.
It's not going to be a cake walk by any
stretch of the imagination. So you've got to be on
your p's and q's. Your run game has to be sound,
(26:24):
and everybody has to kick in. This is this is
all hands on deck type of a situation dealing with
this run, this run defense for the Browns.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
You know, we know who Miles Garrett is.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
He is.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
He is the animal that he is and you're going
to have to deal with that. And the guys around
him rally and they run to the ball.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
And they are physical at the point.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
So you know, when I'm thinking about this, I'm like, hey,
you know, this is this is you know, we like
to call buttholes and elbows like type of approach you're
gonna have to take if you want to put this
team away.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
So I think that you know, we've sort of been
investigated a very good deep unit.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
It'll be interesting.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Toe if Mike Hall, who's a second round pick last year,
a bit undersized, but a you know, a productive player
at Ohio State, second round pick a year ago, he
has been out with a knee injury. I don't know
he you know, he practiced a little bit last week.
Don't know whether he'll be effective or available and effective
this week. If he is, he adds another rotational piece
(27:25):
to what's already a good deep defensive line. That's the
first part of the problem, and I think Max, as
you've pointed out the biggest part of the problem.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
If you can.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Handle that, that part of the defense block those guys,
win your share of those battles, You're going to be
in good shape behind them.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
You know they play a four to two alignment.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
They'll bring Grant dealt with Down out of a strong
safety position into the box. It can be aggressive with him,
but you have Bush and you have Carson Swessinger. Now
Swesssinger again, we've talked about this rookie class for the Browns.
Mason Graham was a first round pick fifth overall. You know,
they had a couple of second round picks that he's
(28:10):
one of them on Carson Sweeshinger and he has been
the green dot guy. He's the leader on the defense.
He rarely comes off the field. The only guy playing
a higher percentage of snaps is Ronnie Hickman, who's never
left the field. Hickman has played all two hundred and
ninety eight defensive snaps for the Browns this year. Right
(28:32):
behind him is Carson Swashinger. That's not easy man in
that middle linebacker position. When you're ranging from sideline to sideline,
you've got two linebackers, you got a lot of ground
to cover. He's only missed seven snaps all year, so
he's been and he played by the way. He like Hickman,
plays special teams. They've actually had the both amount of
(28:52):
snaps the same amount of snaps because Swassinger's played a
little bit more on special teams. But he's been an
impressive young player. You know, it's a team that I
don't know whether their expectation is that Jeremiahwastu Cormo will
ever come back. He suffered a neck injury after collision
with Derrick Henry last year. Really nice player, uh j okay,
(29:17):
And I don't know if he'll be back. I don't
know if they're hoping he's gonna come back next year.
He's not gonna be back this year. Uh So, Carson
swash has become the guy. Uh Diabate gives him a
little bit of depth, Baker gives him a little bit
of depth. But clearly Swashinger and Bush are playing almost
all the snaps at the middle linebacker position for those
(29:39):
two for that team.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, And I mean, you know, we we know who
Devin Bush is. He he is a he is a
known guy to the Steelers organization, and he just he
keeps finding opportunities to play and be a difference maker.
And you're gonna you're gonna have You're gonna have to
fight Devin. You know, Devin's playing with the with the
chip on his shoulder. Probably felt like he shouldn't have
(30:02):
left the team, but you know, injuries played a big
role in that decision. So he's gonna he's gonna be
playing with a chip on his shoulder. So you got
to make sure that you you stamp that out very
early because he's gonna be on a mission and if
you give him any type of success, he is going
to run with it. So for the Steelers, the big
job is, you know, allowing allowing your your offensive line
(30:25):
to not be muddled up with the line of scrimmage
and make sure they can get up to that second
level and block those linebackers because like you said, they've
been playing a heavy amount of staff, so they've seen
a lot of ball and they're gonna be ready to go.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
So uh, as we get into the secondary now, I
want to make a doll for the Cap to Donovan McMillan,
who really is more of a special teams guy than
anything else. Peters Township went to University of Florida before
he transferred to pitt but a local guy, he's uh
it was. It was a big time recruit coming out
(30:57):
of Peter's Township. And uh, good for him that he
was kind of a you know, he was an undrafted
free agent, but he was one of those priority guys,
kind of like Beanie Bishop was last year. For this year,
there's a guy that you wanted to go out and
get because you thought he had a real good chance
to make the team even though he wasn't drafted.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
But really it is.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
It's the top five guys now with Greg Newsom being
traded and Tyson Chandler coming in in case he just
joined us. Tyson Chandler picked up along with a seventh
round pick from Jacksonville for Greg Newsom and a sixth
round pick. Interesting trade. Chandler had three and a half
(31:39):
years left on his deal. You know, he's a Newsom's
in his last year. It was a first round pick
in twenty twenty one, has been a staple for the
Browns and their secondary Chandler was a second round pick
but assigned to a contract extension for three and a
half more years. So Chandler's going to be presumed semably
(32:01):
starting opposite of Denzel Ward. I mean, I imagine they're
going to try to get him up there and up
to speed as quickly as possible because they have not
really played a whole lot of other guys. It's been
Denzel Ward, it's been Greg Newsom, it's been Miles Harden,
seventh round pick a year ago. That's basically been the
(32:22):
guys they've played at corner, and then it's safety. They
have Delpit, Hickman and Rayshawn Jenkins will play them as well.
But it's not a defense that has They've Cameron Mitchell
in there before then released him after he had some struggles.
It's not a defense that rotates a lot of guys
in that secondary Max, So you know the guys we're
(32:43):
talking about. Hickman hasn't missed a snap. Grant Delpit is
third on the team in sacks snaps that those are
your two safeties. They'll run some you know, some occasional
big nickel with Rayshawn Jenkins, but basically those starters are the.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Ones that are gonna be out there playing.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, and you know, I think the addition of Tyson
Campbell was going to help, you know, ease some of
that because he is a younger player and it seems
like they're just trying to get younger and they didn't
have a desire to re sign.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Greg Newsom.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
You know, he's he's had an up and down career
his time in Cleveland, So I think that kind of
plays into the role that they're like, hey, you know
you're good in all, but you know you're not what
we're looking for long term. So you kind of see
the momentum shifting in that type of fashion. So I
(33:40):
would imagine that you're gonna get him in some situational things.
You know, you do have some other guys who've played
on the season avery on the back end. You imagine
he'll probably get some burn. He was in the game
last week, had two tackles. Converse, who's Denzel wars backup?
You wonder if you can flip him as well, just
to minimize some of that learning curve for Tyson Campbell
(34:03):
until he is fully up to speed. But you imagine,
like I said, he's been playing all season, He's been
making plays. He understands what a defense coverage is. It's
just going to be that communication and the group getting
comfortable with him.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
That's really the only thing I see.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
So I mean, I don't expect that, but like you said,
if you have a run game, run stuff and a
good defensive line playing in your front seven, that minimizes that.
But at the same time, the way that they play
so aggressive, I imagine he'll get some rotational burn early and
then how he handles that will determine how much later
he plays in the game.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
You know, and I will say this, like you can
see where the Browns feel, you know, pretty good about
what they're trying to put together on defense. And again
we're talking about this game, but you know, we're also
this is a Browns team. You know, we're going to
see you know, year in and year right. They're they're
(35:02):
a team that you know, you see twice a year.
And where are they? Are they a team that's on
an upward trajectory? Are they a team that's you know,
it's just so easy to kind of dismiss him because
they've been bad for a while. But when you look
at the elements that make up this team, you know,
(35:23):
I think we've identified the defensive line as a strength
on this team. That's a good defensive line. They have
good players. Miles Garrett's a great player. Like him or not,
he's a great player. And you know Graham and Collins
who signed for another season. You know, Shelby Harris is
a rotational guy. At some point they figured to get
might call back Swessinger and middle linebacker. If you get
(35:45):
Jok back, so much the better all of a sudden,
you know, you're really good there in the middle of
the field. And Denzel Ward is a legit top corner
he's a four time Pro Bowler. He signed through twenty
twenty seven. And so as you start to think about, hey,
we have linebackers, especially get j ok back. You've got
linebackers that are that are solid behind a very very
(36:07):
good defensive line. You've got yourself a legit number one corner,
you know, Tyson Chan that I think gives you a
solid option as a second corner. You feel decent about
the guys you have at safety with Delpit and Ronnie Hickman.
There's you know, you look at this team. They need
to add depth, but they've got a slew of draft picks.
(36:29):
It is a solid defense that and I think has
some of the elements you need to be better than
solid to be upper echelon. Now they're lacking some things
as well, for sure, particularly depth, maybe a position or
two that's a weakness. Uh, but it's a you could
see where they would feel pretty good about this. Hey
if we get some pass rush on you, uh and
(36:50):
and give you know, Denzel Ward a fighting chance out there.
We got a four time Pro Bowl We can match
up with your top receiver.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Well, you have a guy who can match up with
your receiver.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
You have some tenacity as well, and like you said,
Denzel Ward being kind of a guy that's been a
staple for that defense along with Miles Garrett, that has
fit the mold of what they're looking for. They just
haven't found the additional resources that can combat that. And
I think that's where you insert a Mason Graham, Right,
(37:24):
It's like, how do we help Denzel Ward out? Well,
you put a pass rush up there, and now all
of a sudden, our life gets a little bit easier, Right,
We start to be able to do more things, We
can figure more stuff out, and we as a unit
can can start moving forward.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And I think that's.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Where you worry a little bit about, Okay, what are
they going to do is what is going to be
their modus operandi for this season? Like how are they
going to combat a lot of these other teams and
stay in these games. It's got to be from the
run perspective. The run perspective has to be your calling card,
(38:07):
and you have to be able to do one thing
really really well.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
And they're doing that. They're they're showing that, Yep.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Our run game is you know, our run defense is
what we're gonna hang our hat on this season. Like,
that's what we're going to do, and then we're going
to build the other aspects later.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah, Max, it's a it's a it's a simplistic formula, right,
but it's it's a Disney movie, a story as old
as time, Beauty and the Beast.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
So anyway, you know, you stop the run.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Yeah, I'm a Disney Dad.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
Oh, I know, man, I know I'm out of the
Disney Dad mode.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
But they're good years.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
So it is stop the run, then have a pass
rusher and then have somebody in the back end who
can who can you know with the aid of a
pass right, because it's very difficult for any defensive back
to stick with any top receiver. But so stop the run,
have an elite pass rush, whether or at least elite
(39:10):
pass rusher, have a guy in the back end that
can that can slow down the other team's top receiver.
The Browns have those elements. It takes more than that,
but they've got. Those are difficult things to get. You
want a top corner that's gonna cost you a very
high pick in the draft.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
You want a top pass rusher that should cost you.
Although TJ. Watt obviously was was late in the first round.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
That's generally gonna cost you a very high pick, you know,
and then you know be so being able to stop
the run allows you to unleash those elements.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
But you have to have those elements. The Browns have them.
You know.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
Again, I'm not trying to paint them as some kind
of juggernaut unbeatable team. I'm trying to paint them as
a team that that fans should not be taking lightly.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Well, and they're closer than a lot of people want
to give them creditor exactly. That that that's really what
it comes down to, Like, this team is not the
team of old where they're just you know, completely inept
and they can't figure things out.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Now they're still inept, they're just not.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Completely Yes, and and there and there's still it's still
it's still possible they could take all these puzzle pieces
and toss them in the fire, you know what I mean.
It's still possible they could take what they've got and
not finished the job.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah, I mean it's very plausible because history has said
as much.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yes, it's just said we still don't quite know what
we have.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
We know we have something, but we don't know exactly
what that something is. That is that Jona, you know
of of what we have, and so you.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Want to sit there, you want you And I tried.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
I'm trying to give them credit because I don't want
to overlook them. But many they just do boneheaded stuff
that goes against traditional knowledge.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
And that's where.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
It's just like, as much as things are different, things
are still the same.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
You know what I'm saying, Like, it's.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Still it's just like, ugh, you guys, you guys frustrate
me because I love a good challenge, but every once
in a while I don't I don't mind an easier
way of getting there. If a team is going to
shoot themselves in the foot, I'm just gonna add, ammo,
you know what I'm saying, Like, I agree, I am
not trying to trying to put up a warning label
that says please do not shoot yourself in the foot,
(41:36):
especially when comes of Cleveland. As you've heard my soliloquy
of how much I love all things Cleveland. But but
they are a team that if they do figure it out,
you know, it could be challenging for the future.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Well, I'll you know again, we got French, we got
a little bit of singing. We really kind of got
it all from Max Stark's It's a variety show.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
This is hit, it is now.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
So we're gonna be back to wrap things up as
we get you ready for the Cleveland Browns. And again
we just have to remember last year snow Globe game
Thursday night did not turn out well for the Steelers.
So again, are we trying to scare you? Yes, yes,
we're trying to scare you just a little bit. We
don't want you to be totally frightened. It is Halloween month,
(42:24):
just a little scared of this this game coming up
on Sunday. We'll continue with more in the Locker Room
presented by your neighborhood Ford Store and the Steelers Pro
Shop on Steelers Nation Radio, a part of the Steelers
Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
This is in the Locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop shop dot
Steelers dot com.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
All Right, I believe at the end of Rocky three,
was it you know Pollo Creed is sitting you know, well,
Pollo Creed and Rocky get into the ring. They want
to do a little sparring session. They want to figure out,
you know, hey, who's the best. And right before the
end of it, and you get that iconic pause scene
of the overhand right and the body hook, Apollo Creed
(43:25):
goes ding ding ding. That's right, it's the bell lap,
that's right.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
I had to change up the way we can do it.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Well, you know, Kiger, because you know, Wolf would always
get on me, and you know, I always had this
thing about Cluver Lang, the great American philosopher.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
What's the podcast for? You know, what's your prediction for
this fight?
Speaker 5 (43:46):
Pain?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Right? So I would I.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Figured I needed to reprise it a little bit and
give it a little bit of a judging. So now boom,
that's how I gave the bell lap in here. Remember, everybody,
go out there. This is your early lunch warning system. Yes,
seven minutes to find your spot if you're on that noon,
that noon lunch clock hour. I know I'm gonna be
digging into some leftovers today.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
That's what today is. Today. Thursday is leftover day.
Speaker 5 (44:11):
All right.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
So that's what I'm gonna be doing for my quote
unquote lunch today. But uh, but yeah, King, I mean
we've been talking about it. We've been talking about how
this Cleveland Brown's defense, because really that's that's the most
known of these.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Hang On, I want to end. I want I want
you to end on defense. I want you to end
on the I want you to end of the brunch.
But I have to Now you've just brought up the
question because you and I don't quite see eye to eye.
Uh and and now i'd have to stand in the
stepstool to see I'd eye with you, but we don't
see eye to eye. On on on Raiders of the
Lost Arc, which is the best movie?
Speaker 5 (44:46):
I picked one? You picked three? The Rocky movies. There's
it's one and everything else? Correct? Or do you like
three with Clever Lang?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Well? I like three with Clever Lang just because I
mean it just it was entertaining.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
They're all entertaining. I mean obviously you had to start
with one.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
I mean, like I enjoy Rocky four as well, right,
I mean Evan Dragov.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Like that exactly if he dies, he dies, You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
There's a lot of quotables and in Rocky four. You know,
Rocky three was one that kind of resonated. You know,
I was a huge Mister T fan back in the day,
so you know, I have a special place in my
heart is reserved for Rocky three. But listen, I'm not
gonna fight you on the original because you had to
start somewhere. Those Apollo Creed and and Rocky matchups, Rocky loses.
(45:42):
I think that's also the significance of you know, what
one brought to the table, so you know, and then
after that he never found a way to lose. It
felt like really, I mean, he would lose a match
but then come back in the end and end up
beating the guy, just like in Rocky three. So I'm
with thank you on one. You had to start somewhere.
You had to start the boxing soap opera so to speak.
(46:04):
That was Rocky One's a classic. The others are good movies,
That's what I would say. The others are entertaining movies.
One's a great movie anyway, So I digress. Give us
in the next thirty seconds or so your thumbnail of
what we discussed and what we're looking forward to from
the Browns defense coming up on Sunday, talented group that's
(46:25):
going to be tenacious, is going to be aggressive at
the gate because you've got to do something to change
things up against a team and the Steelers that has
all the momentum going in their favor, So you've got
to do something to make a splash. And so that's
what I really expect from this Browns defense. They're going
to be aggressive, They're going to blitz, They're going to
(46:46):
try and do a lot of different things to really
confuse what the Steelers want to do. And Jim Schwartz
a guy who's very familiar with with Aaron Rodgers and
his prowess and capabilities. So expects of creativity from Jim
Schwarz sports to activate and get Miles Garrett, going to
get Mason Graantle to get this pass rush going, and
to really try and minimize. You know, what the Steelers
(47:08):
run game is going to look like. They're going to
have to figure out how to do it against a
sixth lineman. Then really I would say a seventh lineman actually,
because Darneld Washington technically is are sixth line when.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
He's in there.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
So you know, how how do you stop a team
that employees seven quote unquote offensive line body types to
run at you for a team that you know has
has their depth concerns. You know, as a team that
operates from a four to two nickel base that they
kind of masquerade and move around to pretend to be
(47:39):
a you know, a a three down team, but you know,
for the most part they're operating from a four down,
four to two nickel type of alignment. And you know,
because that means more big personnel. Do you bring a
fifth lineman in? Do you bring a third linebacker? How
do you get to that? And then dropping that safety
in right, because your four two nickels not going to
get you very far ringing against seven guys that's a
(48:02):
jumbo personnel in any other category. So how they deploy that?
You know, is this something where Alex Right bumps in
a little bit more Cam Thomas? Do you bring in
a bigger body? Does Shelby Harris come in? That's gonna
be the question.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
Yeah, it's gonna be a fun little chess match to
watch one final in case you're just joining us.
Speaker 5 (48:19):
A trade.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Greg Newsom, a former first round picked the cornerback for
the Browns, traded for Tyson Chandler with some swap.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Of Campbell going on at cornerback, Tyson Campbell.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
Tyson Campbell, I said Chandler, Tyson Campbell, thank you from Jacksonville.
So interesting, interesting stuff as they make a move after
having traded Joe Flack already.
Speaker 5 (48:41):
It's been an interesting week. Should be an interesting game.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
One more day to get you ready for that game
tomorrow for Justin Miller, our producer for Max Stark, Tom
Rob King, we thank you for being in the Locker Room,
presented by your neighborhood Forward Stour and the Steers Pro
Shop on Stether's Nation Radio, a part of the Steelers
Audio Network.
This is in the locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
The F one P fifty is the.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Official truck of the Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop.
Get it direct from the team at the Steelers Pro
Shop at shop dot Steelers dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh, there we go. That is the sweet sound of Optimists.
But more importantly, it's the power hour.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
That's right our number two here inside the locker room,
and we are pushing forward towards Sunday after shure one o'clock.
Those browns of Putting Bay, Ohio are coming over to Pittsburgh.
And I call that Putting Bay affectionately because I think
(00:59):
that's probably the best part of Ohio outside of Columbus,
where my beautiful bride is from. That's the only part
in the Eastern Ohio I guess I should say that
I like especially Well, no, I take that back, because
I do like Warren. That's when my father was born,
you know, I do like Lima. My uncle was born there,
So you know, third best part of I guess Eastern
(01:21):
Ohio would be put In Bay. You know, as I
kind of think of this, I mean, you know, my distaste, disdain,
dis everything for things that are Cleveland, even when Lebron
was there, and I like Lebron. Lebron's an awesome guy,
really nice person. Has done a lot for the city
(01:44):
of Cleveland. You know, he's he's a he's a he's
a great humanitarian. But I didn't like him when he
was on the calves, you know, because he was in Cleveland.
So so I'll just go with that and we'll just
stay there with with with that one.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But you know, Putting Bay is way better than Cleveland.
Cleveland sucks.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
So we got we gotta, I gotta, I got a
couple as long as we're making, you know, good things,
because you've had some caveats for family members. Swenson's, I
don't know if you've ever been to a Swinson's US.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
We gotta know, yeah from Justin Milkers. Did that come
out over Justin?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Just hey, voice of God, Voice of God.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Justin just gave out a oh yeah, like the yeah
off the air Burgers shakes Fries.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
It's like a sort of a I don't know what
you'd call it, like a little bit it's like a
drive in versus a drive through. You park your car. There,
somebody comes out to take your order. They bring out
a hamburger, fries, and a and a milkshake. They're really good.
Swinston's really good. They have like great milkshakes and stuff.
I got turned on to those when I was doing
(02:52):
a basketball game and my color analysts had gone to
Akron and he's like, hey, have you ever been And
I said no.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
And he said, get in the car, let's go.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
So between the morning shoot around in the game that
night we went to the Swinton's. Swinton's is good, Tony Paco's,
and Toledo's if anyone's ever been there.
Speaker 5 (03:09):
Klinger mentioned that.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
On Mash they have they have stuffed cabbage, incredible kind
of their sort of Toledo's version of Promantes is about
the closest I could say, even though it's not really
a sandwich.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
It's an imperfect connection. But local, really good.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
And and you gotta at least give Cleveland the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Once again.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I can give them a building and a museum, all right,
but once again, most of America probably isn't saying, oh
my god, I can't wait to go to Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
To the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
You like, you end up in Cleveland, you say, oh yeah,
I'm gonna go to the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame because that's.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
What you're looking for in that moment.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like it's it's not
that destination. Pilger say, Hey, we're driving cross country.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We got to go through Cleveland. Well let's stop at
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on the way.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Say we got to gas up in Cleveland. You know
what I'm saying, Like, it's not You're not going to
Cleveland for Cleveland, you know, you have to find something
else associated And sure, frankly, I don't even know how
Cleveland got the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Let's
just be honest. Here is because it felt bad for them,
and you know, and.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
There's some sort of connection there. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It's the dirtiest of the Five Lakes, you know, the
Great Lakes, it's the dirtiest one. You know what I'm saying, Like,
there's not there's not a lot of appeal in that
city stand alone.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
I don't remember there's a story for it. I don't
remember why, you know, I think I think Mitch Ryder's
from there. I think there's some people.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I think there's the Cuyahoga River, like burn.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
The water literally in flames. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
It wasn't and it wasn't Greek fire, you know what
I'm saying, Like that's the mythological history thing, Like it
wasn't Greek fire that happened, Like it's literally that contaminy
that it could it could just burn at any moment,
you know, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
This wasn't Game of Thrones.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
This This was not you know, an old you know,
ancient battle like this. This is like recent history, like
you know, these are the type of things that come
to mind when I think of Cleveland outside of you know,
the Browns and yeah, so I so once again, I
get food is always going to be it. I mean,
food is your only solace when you live in a
(05:31):
place like that. So, yes, you know, I saw Jameis
Winston when he went to us Winston's and he lost
his mind there, couldn't believe how good the food was.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
But I can go I can go find Burgers anywhere,
you know what I'm saying, Like, it's.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Not there's also place. There's also a place in the don't.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
You have like a chipped beef for something like that?
I don't know it's or some type of yeah, or
there's some type of pastrami. There's something I know they
have good. But Bentley took me there.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
They have a sandwich at a friend of mine who's
from Cleveland, and she said that she claimed that there's
a place in the flats, the Cleveland Flats that had
a Primanny's type of sandwich and wanted to say.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
That it was that it was originally that it was first.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
And I was like, see, see, that's that's where we
got problems.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
That's stop trying to claim things that ain't yours exactly.
You know, it's just no no, uh, cease and desist.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Can I put a season desist out for you?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Could you could put assist?
Speaker 4 (06:39):
So uh Again. I always think of our buddy Craig
Wolf when we when we bring up the food. Wolf
was extremely passionate about football and food. He was he
was into it.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
So faith, family, football, then food. It was a strong football,
a strong third and football strong fourth and food. But
I would argue that football and food were like three
A and three B.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Right, yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
So you mentioned this the the offensive line for the
Steelers now, Aaron Rodgers. So you know, we've had a
couple of people come on and talk about the offensive
line being better. Jerry Dulac just the most recent saying
the Steelers offensive line improved in Minnesota against Minnesota in Dublin.
(07:30):
And I think they did, and I think they are
getting better. I also think that, you know, part of
that was Spencer Anderson getting a number of snaps and
being part of a jumbo package. It allows you to
run the ball better. And by the way, I don't
care what allows you to run the ball better. It
doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Just as long as you run the ball better.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
As long as you run the ball better, and hopefully
the offensive line, you know, as you've cautioned, Hey, give
these guys, you know, five six weeks to find their footing.
Roderick Jones knew it. Left tackle Troy Foultano new to
the NFL and also new to the right tackle position.
He played left tackle in college. I know we went
through it in camp last year and this year and
played a game last year in Denver before he got hurt.
(08:10):
But he's new to the position and communication and geling
on the offensive line. These things don't always happen immediately.
It's wonderful when they do, but they usually take some time.
But having said that, you know this Cleveland Brown's front
is really good. And you know, I know that, you know,
(08:30):
you can look at a score and say, jeez, they
really got you know, blown out in a game, you know,
against Baltimore, they have a punt block, they have an
interception return, you know, just costly. The offense was just awful,
absolutely awful. Couldn't give the defensive break. I think that
(08:52):
if you give this defensive break, it's a really good defense.
They are very difficult to run against. Their the number
one rush defense in the NFL. And when I look
at these names, you know, you have everyone knows about
Miles Garrett, who By the way, again I've told you
for people that are new to the program, I have
my own, you know, way of watching film, and I
(09:14):
like to keep the last couple of games till closer
to kickoff for my you know, for my own purposes.
But I've watched three other five games thus far, and
in the games that I've seen, Miles Garrett has been incredible.
I mean he is playing at a very he only
has four sacks, right, people look at that out for sacks.
In fact, he's playing at a extremely high level, and
(09:38):
that's probably having a trickle down effect on first rounder
Mason Graham, who I think has also looked very good
and disruptive. Malik Collins, who was assigning you know that
his career high in sacks is five. He's a veteran,
he's been around for a while, been a solid player.
He's got three and a half sacks this year. He
looks like a different guy, and Miles Garrett probably has
(10:01):
an effect on that. Graham was taking fifth overall, so
you're expecting big things out of him. Isaiah McGuire, Alex
Wright's been disruptive. Cameron Thomas has been good. Shelby Harris.
They like to rotate guys in there. Shelby Harris has
been solid, even guys like Aiden Huntington who don't play
a bunch of snaps. We'll see him on playing fullback
this week too. By the way, undrafted guy, he's got
(10:24):
an impact. I don't know whether it might call a
second round pick last year. He's been limited in practice
the last couple of weeks. He hasn't still hasn't made
his debut this year after sufferting a really suffering a
really nasty knee injury last year. He's still not made
it all the way back. But he could come back.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Max.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
What I'm saying is it's a formidable front four and
it's a four man front, and it's good. It's it's
very good.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
In fact, Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I think this is, you know, a team that you
can not overlook, you cannot take for granted. Seattle Seahawks,
you know, I'm just I'm still going back to the
rankings again. The Seattle Seahawks, you know, are a very
(11:16):
similar team.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
You want to run the ball effectively then use it
to set up the pass. That's what's gonna help Dylan Gabriel.
And one of the things we struggle with and week two,
or I should say the last time we were in
extra stadium was stopping the run. And this is a
team that's going to absolutely try and jam the ball
down your throas to eliminate or limit the exposure of
(11:39):
Dylan Gabriel to the pass rush. Right, because you don't
know what you have at left tackle. It's been it's
been a rotating door. Cam Robinson's trying to get up
to speed for you. You know, Jack Conklin's old, so
you know when you put TJ, you put Alex high
Smith potentially coming back, Jack Sawyer and Nate and Nick
Herbig on the end like that.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's a lot of stress.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
And now you've got to dedicate Harrol Fanin or David
and Joku to staying in chip blocking. Juckin's gonna have
to chip block before getting out. And then you still
got to deal with the interior defensive line of ours.
So you know, but Tonio and company, yep, they're good.
They'll have their moments, so you know, but you still
got to deal with Keanu Ben and Derek harmon Ya,
(12:22):
Black Logan, Lee and Company in the interior on top
of and Cam Heyward on top of what's going on
on the outside. So you're gonna want to run the
ball to try and quell some of that. You know,
I'd always talk about the tender riser, right, like how
do you stop a good pass rush run the ball effectively?
And that's what they're going to try and do. So
last time an aftersure you didn't have a great outing.
But yet you know you've learned from those mistakes because
(12:45):
the next the next two games after that, you did
really well. So hopefully they continue on that same type
of slide. But that's what you're combating. I mean, the
both defensive lines in this game are the true strong
points in the offensive lines, there's still questions until you've
quelled that fire. I always said this, once you put
it on tape, you have you have the next month
to deal with it. And this is still in that
(13:06):
month from the fallout from the Seattle game. So you
must do everything in your power to minimize the exposure
of quin Son Juckets, to minimize the exposure of what
Miles Garrett can do, to minimize what these guys do well.
And I think Mason Graham's playing well because he's been
he's been paired mostly opposite Miles Garrett. Guess who gets
the double team of the two, It's going to always
(13:28):
be Miles Garrett. And I think the same thing happened
in college with Mason Gren. The reason why Mason Graham
looks so good and why I wasn't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Too high on him, he never got the double team
because his partner.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah, Grant got all of the double teams that he
got the single blocks. So the similar system that he
thrived in in Michigan's what he's dealing with now in Cleveland.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
So that's what makes him look even better.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
You put a double team on him, he goes poop
kuputs And that's what you have to figure out.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You like that, you like that.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
I don't know what that means, but I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Hey, it's not good. It's not good.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
It's like a lemon car, you know what I'm saying.
When you try and turn the car over, you.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Just poop kaputtz. It's done. It's dead.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
That's when you have to go find a new engine.
But that's what you're that's what you're dealing with. That's
what you're gonna have to work on. And however the
scheme goes, you know, whether you're running two miles with
a double team, whether you're running away from them, whether
you're using Spencer Anderson, whether you're using Darnold Washington, however,
you're gonna do it whatever you can do to minimize
that and keep two double teams in this game, whether
(14:32):
run or pass. That's going to be key to the
success for the Steelers.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
So I agree. I think everything starts there for both teams.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Since I kind of started in that direction, let's begin
this discussion, which I think is the most vital part
of the game on in the trenches on both sides.
I mean, it's usually obviously important, but I think it's
extra important in this game for both teams. You know,
when you look at at this front for Cleveland, you've
(15:04):
got and to me, I agree with you. I think
that Mason Graham versus h Mason McCormick is is going
to be the battle of the Masons is going to
be really interesting. And I think on the other side,
ciamalo on Malie Collins, Malie Collins has.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Been really good.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
I think if you if you watched the games and
didn't know that Malie Collins had a long track record
of being more solid than anything else, you might think
he's the second best player on the on the defense.
By the way, Sweesterns is really good too, the rookie,
but Malie Collins has been a disruptive for three and
(15:45):
a half sacks and so and the other guys you
know McGuire on the outside of Alex Right and the
other guy's opposite for Miles Garrett clearly, and and the
whole line benefiting from the fact that they're not getting doubled.
Miles Garrett is going to be the guy who gets doubled. Then,
by the way, has still been uh, just very very
difficult to deal with. But I have noticed one thing
(16:07):
that those two guys in the middle. This is something
I wanted to ask you about. Max Malik Collins and
Mason Graham do a lot of twists.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
I think you call those T T twists. Correct?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
The two tier is T T or T or what
we call a ton or a nut. It depends on
if there's a nut actually at the nose position.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Yeah, well we see.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
You know, Garrett has also done some looping around to
the inside. But it seems like they get those guys moving.
So what what makes that difficult? When when when guys
do a stunt, And by the way, if you catch
guys in one of those stunts and you call a
running play, you might have a hole the size of
(16:47):
you know, Rhode Island to run through if you're catching
them in the twist.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
But in passing.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
Situations, what makes that difficult when you have a twist
is it communication, Well.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
It's communication, and then also the direction of the twist right.
Say you're running left and the front side guy that's
on that left A or B gap stunts to the inside,
the natural inclination. If you're working a double team, you
turn back and then there's a guy looping over the top.
Now you've created this gap, right because say your left
guard goes to try and take that three technique, but
(17:19):
then he comes down and you're trying to pass him
off to the center and you have a guy looping
right over your shoulder. Your job's normally going up to
the backer, but now this D lineman is now in
your way and you're and you're trying to catch him.
And also you don't know, and that's what creates those gaps.
So either the linebacker comes through or that D tackle
comes free in the A or B gap. That's the
(17:41):
biggest thing. Now when flow is to you, say the
three technique is slanning, you know, or is looping backwards,
and the backside guy is the one that's knifing. It
makes it a little bit easier because now that guard
and center block now becomes a center and backs guard block,
and that guy's looping away from the action, So now
(18:02):
you create a free lane for that guard to go
up and get the backer. So it can work either way.
That's where the confusion is. Depending on how they run
the stunt can determine success or failure or the quandary.
The quandary becomes on the defense when they loop away.
It becomes a quandary on the offense when they loop
towards and they guess correct. So like I say, oh,
(18:24):
they guess right on the twist, you know, because they
played it into the run properly. Those are the things
that you get into. And that's the biggest that's the
biggest right off the top situation or issue you have
to deal with.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
How about in a straight shotgun situation, it's third and eight.
You know you're probably going to pass the ball, so
you're in a shotgun. You might even go empty set.
And now they run that twist, so you know you
got Miles Garrett coming on the outside right. So now
the left tackle, Roderick Jones, got to deal with him.
(18:57):
You're not gonna leave him alone. You're probably going to him.
I don't know whether you're gonna ask for help from
your guard.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
Or what. You're gonna do.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
And I don't know whether that you know, maybe that's
one of the reasons that they twist if the guard
goes out there to help them, But usually I think
would be a tight end giving him a chip or
running back, backing up or chipping or helping behind that
tackle to block a guy like Miles Garrett. So you
got Miles Garrett coming from that side, you're Broderick Jones.
Now you have Cimalow, you have Frasier, and you have
(19:29):
McCormick to block Collins and Graham right, and then the
right tackle is going to be on Foutown is going
to be on say Isaiah.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Maguire on that side.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
What makes that twist difficult for those three guys in
the middle, the tackle tackle twist, because again we've seen
them run some of these twists, and these are guys
Collins and Graham can both move. So what makes that
difficult to pick up? And why has it been effective
for Cleveland and why would it be effective for any team?
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Well, I think I think when you look at that
twist in a passing situation, it changed, it redistributes or
redictates the terms on how you're going to attack somebody
so you know that becomes now, okay, can we can
we pass this off? Usually in a passing situation, it
(20:23):
but you know you want to say this, and I
say this very gingerly when I make this assessment. But
it becomes a little bit easier in those moments because
you're backing up. So therefore things are happening in front
of you. As long as you give yourself space on
the twist, that's what happens. The problem where a twist
(20:46):
becomes good is when you get on different levels.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So say it's an et stunt, So.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Roderick Jones has Miles Garrett on the outside, he sets
Miles Garrett takes his two set nuts gets out to
a forty five to figure out the intersection point. Well,
Miles immediately takes an inside move. Your tackle's moving at depth.
Your guard has a tackle right on him, so he's
going to go on a phone booth fight. So now
he's further on the line of scrimmage. That separation between
(21:16):
the garden tackle, that lane that's created because of the
separation is what is what makes us tough. Because if
that three technique is looping to the outside, so your
defensive end is crashing to the inside that three technique
that the guard is setting on the line of scrimmage.
For loops, that's what we call a pick because when
a defensive end takes that half, he's trying to hit
(21:37):
the hip of the guard. He's not focused on the
tackle at all. He's trying to create a salad board
for the guard to kind of squeeze off the point,
almost like when you try and squeeze off a garden
hose that's at full blast. If I can, if I
can pinch it and prevent that guard from from getting
square with me and getting two hands on me, and
I catch the corner of the guy, I catch either
(21:58):
near shoulder or the hit of the guard. He can't
block me. It's like pinning your arm in when you're
sitting in the window seat of an airplane, right, you know,
it's like, hey, can you get this? Ah?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Now, I'm kind of pinned.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
There's a guy in the middle seat that's kind of
pushing me into the window and the windows there, and
I can't move outside the window. That's what they're trying
to create, that pinch point. And that's when you get
two different levels and you get two guys blocking none
because the tackle is now turned the inside. He's given
away his high hip and he's now had to turn
(22:31):
on an angle. Well, guess what, when you turn on angle,
you give a free lane to the inside, and then
the guard gets picked off. And now even if you
do imagine you could actually repinch Miles Garrett off. Well,
guess what, Mason Graham, Malik Williams, whoever is coming on
the loop, is now scott free because now you've got
two guys occupying one and the second guy is running
(22:52):
scott free. That's where you get the issue. But if
in a passing play you kind of see it, you
understand what the ques are. Okay, Miles tilted a little
bit further inside. You know his inside hand is back
versus his outside hand. Okay, that changes the angle. So
now he can leave, you know, a lot quicker and
make that move to the inside. You could just both
set off the ball equally, and now you create a
(23:14):
wall so you can see that twist happening in real time,
and now you're better served to keep a two for
two blocking angle. So I know they got a little
bit high level there in my explanation, Rob, but you
asked for it, so I gave it to you.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
No, because we're gonna see it. Max, We're gonna see it.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
We're gonna see it with Miles Garrett, We're gonna see
it with Graham and Collins, particularly if they have trouble
you know, getting you know, getting to the quarterback. So listen,
man I, it's keep an eye on that people. We're
gonna listen. We're gonna continue to break down. I think
we'll probably need to spend the rest of this program
(23:49):
talking about the Browns defense and what they what they
can do, and what the students can do to combat them,
because they've got some talented players on that. First, we
want to remind you that you can gear up with
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Get the latest Sideline apparel, jerseys, Terrible towels, authentic memorabilia,
(24:10):
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shop at shop dot Steelers dot com. Back with more
(24:32):
in the Locker Room presented by your neighborhood Ford Store
and the Steelers Pro Shop on Steelers Nation Radio apart
of the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
This is in the Locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Forward Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop at Shop
down Steelers dot com.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
And thanks very much for being with us inside the
locker room alongside Max Starks. I'm Rob King. Max.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
We are kind of breaking down this Browns defense, which
is the number one rushing defense in the NFL.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
This is a stingy team and.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Will provide a stern test for the students who are
looking to improve on a running game that look the
best it has all season really in London against the Vikings.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, it's it's a group that's going to be a challenge.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You know, they do they do a couple of things
really well, and you know, running and blocking against the
run is kind of their hallmark and for a young
team that's trying to figure it out, that's moved on
from their veteran quarterback and is now going with the
Dylan Gabriel experience. You've got to be ready for the unknown.
(26:01):
You've got to be ready for the challenge that they're
going to bring in. You know, they they pride themselves
and being tough, They pride themselves and being physical. Well,
now now they got to go out and prove it.
They got to go and put up in this moment.
So it's going to be no walk in the park.
It's not going to be a cake walk by any
stretch of the imagination. So you've got to be on
your p's and q's. Your run game has to be sound,
(26:24):
and everybody has to kick in. This is this is
all hands on deck type of a situation dealing with
this run, this run defense for the Browns.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
You know, we know who Miles Garrett is.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
He is.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
He is the animal that he is and you're going
to have to deal with that. And the guys around
him rally and they run to the ball.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
And they are physical at the point.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
So you know, when I'm thinking about this, I'm like, hey,
you know, this is this is you know, we like
to call buttholes and elbows like type of approach you're
gonna have to take if you want to put this
team away.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
So I think that you know, we've sort of been
investigated a very good deep unit.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
It'll be interesting.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Toe if Mike Hall, who's a second round pick last year,
a bit undersized, but a you know, a productive player
at Ohio State, second round pick a year ago, he
has been out with a knee injury. I don't know
he you know, he practiced a little bit last week.
Don't know whether he'll be effective or available and effective
this week. If he is, he adds another rotational piece
(27:25):
to what's already a good deep defensive line. That's the
first part of the problem, and I think Max, as
you've pointed out the biggest part of the problem.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
If you can.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Handle that, that part of the defense block those guys,
win your share of those battles, You're going to be
in good shape behind them.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
You know they play a four to two alignment.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
They'll bring Grant dealt with Down out of a strong
safety position into the box. It can be aggressive with him,
but you have Bush and you have Carson Swessinger. Now
Swesssinger again, we've talked about this rookie class for the Browns.
Mason Graham was a first round pick fifth overall. You know,
they had a couple of second round picks that he's
(28:10):
one of them on Carson Sweeshinger and he has been
the green dot guy. He's the leader on the defense.
He rarely comes off the field. The only guy playing
a higher percentage of snaps is Ronnie Hickman, who's never
left the field. Hickman has played all two hundred and
ninety eight defensive snaps for the Browns this year. Right
(28:32):
behind him is Carson Swashinger. That's not easy man in
that middle linebacker position. When you're ranging from sideline to sideline,
you've got two linebackers, you got a lot of ground
to cover. He's only missed seven snaps all year, so
he's been and he played by the way. He like Hickman,
plays special teams. They've actually had the both amount of
(28:52):
snaps the same amount of snaps because Swassinger's played a
little bit more on special teams. But he's been an
impressive young player. You know, it's a team that I
don't know whether their expectation is that Jeremiahwastu Cormo will
ever come back. He suffered a neck injury after collision
with Derrick Henry last year. Really nice player, uh j okay,
(29:17):
And I don't know if he'll be back. I don't
know if they're hoping he's gonna come back next year.
He's not gonna be back this year. Uh So, Carson
swash has become the guy. Uh Diabate gives him a
little bit of depth, Baker gives him a little bit
of depth. But clearly Swashinger and Bush are playing almost
all the snaps at the middle linebacker position for those
(29:39):
two for that team.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, And I mean, you know, we we know who
Devin Bush is. He he is a he is a
known guy to the Steelers organization, and he just he
keeps finding opportunities to play and be a difference maker.
And you're gonna you're gonna have You're gonna have to
fight Devin. You know, Devin's playing with the with the
chip on his shoulder. Probably felt like he shouldn't have
(30:02):
left the team, but you know, injuries played a big
role in that decision. So he's gonna he's gonna be
playing with a chip on his shoulder. So you got
to make sure that you you stamp that out very
early because he's gonna be on a mission and if
you give him any type of success, he is going
to run with it. So for the Steelers, the big
job is, you know, allowing allowing your your offensive line
(30:25):
to not be muddled up with the line of scrimmage
and make sure they can get up to that second
level and block those linebackers because like you said, they've
been playing a heavy amount of staff, so they've seen
a lot of ball and they're gonna be ready to go.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
So uh, as we get into the secondary now, I
want to make a doll for the Cap to Donovan McMillan,
who really is more of a special teams guy than
anything else. Peters Township went to University of Florida before
he transferred to pitt but a local guy, he's uh
it was. It was a big time recruit coming out
(30:57):
of Peter's Township. And uh, good for him that he
was kind of a you know, he was an undrafted
free agent, but he was one of those priority guys,
kind of like Beanie Bishop was last year. For this year,
there's a guy that you wanted to go out and
get because you thought he had a real good chance
to make the team even though he wasn't drafted.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
But really it is.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
It's the top five guys now with Greg Newsom being
traded and Tyson Chandler coming in in case he just
joined us. Tyson Chandler picked up along with a seventh
round pick from Jacksonville for Greg Newsom and a sixth
round pick. Interesting trade. Chandler had three and a half
(31:39):
years left on his deal. You know, he's a Newsom's
in his last year. It was a first round pick
in twenty twenty one, has been a staple for the
Browns and their secondary Chandler was a second round pick
but assigned to a contract extension for three and a
half more years. So Chandler's going to be presumed semably
(32:01):
starting opposite of Denzel Ward. I mean, I imagine they're
going to try to get him up there and up
to speed as quickly as possible because they have not
really played a whole lot of other guys. It's been
Denzel Ward, it's been Greg Newsom, it's been Miles Harden,
seventh round pick a year ago. That's basically been the
(32:22):
guys they've played at corner, and then it's safety. They
have Delpit, Hickman and Rayshawn Jenkins will play them as well.
But it's not a defense that has They've Cameron Mitchell
in there before then released him after he had some struggles.
It's not a defense that rotates a lot of guys
in that secondary Max, So you know the guys we're
(32:43):
talking about. Hickman hasn't missed a snap. Grant Delpit is
third on the team in sacks snaps that those are
your two safeties. They'll run some you know, some occasional
big nickel with Rayshawn Jenkins, but basically those starters are the.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
Ones that are gonna be out there playing.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, and you know, I think the addition of Tyson
Campbell was going to help, you know, ease some of
that because he is a younger player and it seems
like they're just trying to get younger and they didn't
have a desire to re sign.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Greg Newsom.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
You know, he's he's had an up and down career
his time in Cleveland, So I think that kind of
plays into the role that they're like, hey, you know
you're good in all, but you know you're not what
we're looking for long term. So you kind of see
the momentum shifting in that type of fashion. So I
(33:40):
would imagine that you're gonna get him in some situational things.
You know, you do have some other guys who've played
on the season avery on the back end. You imagine
he'll probably get some burn. He was in the game
last week, had two tackles. Converse, who's Denzel wars backup?
You wonder if you can flip him as well, just
to minimize some of that learning curve for Tyson Campbell
(34:03):
until he is fully up to speed. But you imagine,
like I said, he's been playing all season, He's been
making plays. He understands what a defense coverage is. It's
just going to be that communication and the group getting
comfortable with him.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
That's really the only thing I see.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
So I mean, I don't expect that, but like you said,
if you have a run game, run stuff and a
good defensive line playing in your front seven, that minimizes that.
But at the same time, the way that they play
so aggressive, I imagine he'll get some rotational burn early and
then how he handles that will determine how much later
he plays in the game.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
You know, and I will say this, like you can
see where the Browns feel, you know, pretty good about
what they're trying to put together on defense. And again
we're talking about this game, but you know, we're also
this is a Browns team. You know, we're going to
see you know, year in and year right. They're they're
(35:02):
a team that you know, you see twice a year.
And where are they? Are they a team that's on
an upward trajectory? Are they a team that's you know,
it's just so easy to kind of dismiss him because
they've been bad for a while. But when you look
at the elements that make up this team, you know,
(35:23):
I think we've identified the defensive line as a strength
on this team. That's a good defensive line. They have
good players. Miles Garrett's a great player. Like him or not,
he's a great player. And you know Graham and Collins
who signed for another season. You know, Shelby Harris is
a rotational guy. At some point they figured to get
might call back Swessinger and middle linebacker. If you get
(35:45):
Jok back, so much the better all of a sudden,
you know, you're really good there in the middle of
the field. And Denzel Ward is a legit top corner
he's a four time Pro Bowler. He signed through twenty
twenty seven. And so as you start to think about, hey,
we have linebackers, especially get j ok back. You've got
linebackers that are that are solid behind a very very
(36:07):
good defensive line. You've got yourself a legit number one corner,
you know, Tyson Chan that I think gives you a
solid option as a second corner. You feel decent about
the guys you have at safety with Delpit and Ronnie Hickman.
There's you know, you look at this team. They need
to add depth, but they've got a slew of draft picks.
(36:29):
It is a solid defense that and I think has
some of the elements you need to be better than
solid to be upper echelon. Now they're lacking some things
as well, for sure, particularly depth, maybe a position or
two that's a weakness. Uh, but it's a you could
see where they would feel pretty good about this. Hey
if we get some pass rush on you, uh and
(36:50):
and give you know, Denzel Ward a fighting chance out there.
We got a four time Pro Bowl We can match
up with your top receiver.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Well, you have a guy who can match up with
your receiver.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
You have some tenacity as well, and like you said,
Denzel Ward being kind of a guy that's been a
staple for that defense along with Miles Garrett, that has
fit the mold of what they're looking for. They just
haven't found the additional resources that can combat that. And
I think that's where you insert a Mason Graham, Right,
(37:24):
It's like, how do we help Denzel Ward out? Well,
you put a pass rush up there, and now all
of a sudden, our life gets a little bit easier, Right,
We start to be able to do more things, We
can figure more stuff out, and we as a unit
can can start moving forward.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And I think that's.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Where you worry a little bit about, Okay, what are
they going to do is what is going to be
their modus operandi for this season? Like how are they
going to combat a lot of these other teams and
stay in these games. It's got to be from the
run perspective. The run perspective has to be your calling card,
(38:07):
and you have to be able to do one thing
really really well.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
And they're doing that. They're they're showing that, Yep.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Our run game is you know, our run defense is
what we're gonna hang our hat on this season. Like,
that's what we're going to do, and then we're going
to build the other aspects later.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah, Max, it's a it's a it's a simplistic formula, right,
but it's it's a Disney movie, a story as old
as time, Beauty and the Beast.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
So anyway, you know, you stop the run.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Yeah, I'm a Disney Dad.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
Oh, I know, man, I know I'm out of the
Disney Dad mode.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
But they're good years.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
So it is stop the run, then have a pass
rusher and then have somebody in the back end who
can who can you know with the aid of a
pass right, because it's very difficult for any defensive back
to stick with any top receiver. But so stop the run,
have an elite pass rush, whether or at least elite
(39:10):
pass rusher, have a guy in the back end that
can that can slow down the other team's top receiver.
The Browns have those elements. It takes more than that,
but they've got. Those are difficult things to get. You
want a top corner that's gonna cost you a very
high pick in the draft.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
You want a top pass rusher that should cost you.
Although TJ. Watt obviously was was late in the first round.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
That's generally gonna cost you a very high pick, you know,
and then you know be so being able to stop
the run allows you to unleash those elements.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
But you have to have those elements. The Browns have them.
You know.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
Again, I'm not trying to paint them as some kind
of juggernaut unbeatable team. I'm trying to paint them as
a team that that fans should not be taking lightly.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Well, and they're closer than a lot of people want
to give them creditor exactly. That that that's really what
it comes down to, Like, this team is not the
team of old where they're just you know, completely inept
and they can't figure things out.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Now they're still inept, they're just not.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Completely Yes, and and there and there's still it's still
it's still possible they could take all these puzzle pieces
and toss them in the fire, you know what I mean.
It's still possible they could take what they've got and
not finished the job.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah, I mean it's very plausible because history has said
as much.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yes, it's just said we still don't quite know what
we have.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
We know we have something, but we don't know exactly
what that something is. That is that Jona, you know
of of what we have, and so you.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Want to sit there, you want you And I tried.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
I'm trying to give them credit because I don't want
to overlook them. But many they just do boneheaded stuff
that goes against traditional knowledge.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
And that's where.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
It's just like, as much as things are different, things
are still the same.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
You know what I'm saying, Like, it's.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Still it's just like, ugh, you guys, you guys frustrate
me because I love a good challenge, but every once
in a while I don't I don't mind an easier
way of getting there. If a team is going to
shoot themselves in the foot, I'm just gonna add, ammo,
you know what I'm saying, Like, I agree, I am
not trying to trying to put up a warning label
that says please do not shoot yourself in the foot,
(41:36):
especially when comes of Cleveland. As you've heard my soliloquy
of how much I love all things Cleveland. But but
they are a team that if they do figure it out,
you know, it could be challenging for the future.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Well, I'll you know again, we got French, we got
a little bit of singing. We really kind of got
it all from Max Stark's It's a variety show.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
This is hit, it is now.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
So we're gonna be back to wrap things up as
we get you ready for the Cleveland Browns. And again
we just have to remember last year snow Globe game
Thursday night did not turn out well for the Steelers.
So again, are we trying to scare you? Yes, yes,
we're trying to scare you just a little bit. We
don't want you to be totally frightened. It is Halloween month,
(42:24):
just a little scared of this this game coming up
on Sunday. We'll continue with more in the Locker Room
presented by your neighborhood Ford Store and the Steelers Pro
Shop on Steelers Nation Radio, a part of the Steelers
Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
This is in the Locker Room with King and Starks
on Steelers Nation Radio, presented by your neighborhood Ford Store.
The F one fifty is the official truck of the
Pittsburgh Steelers and by Steelers Pro Shop. Get it direct
from the team at the Steelers Pro Shop shop dot
Steelers dot com.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
All Right, I believe at the end of Rocky three,
was it you know Pollo Creed is sitting you know, well,
Pollo Creed and Rocky get into the ring. They want
to do a little sparring session. They want to figure out,
you know, hey, who's the best. And right before the
end of it, and you get that iconic pause scene
of the overhand right and the body hook, Apollo Creed
(43:25):
goes ding ding ding. That's right, it's the bell lap,
that's right.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
I had to change up the way we can do it.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Well, you know, Kiger, because you know, Wolf would always
get on me, and you know, I always had this
thing about Cluver Lang, the great American philosopher.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
What's the podcast for? You know, what's your prediction for
this fight?
Speaker 5 (43:46):
Pain?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Right? So I would I.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
Figured I needed to reprise it a little bit and
give it a little bit of a judging. So now boom,
that's how I gave the bell lap in here. Remember, everybody,
go out there. This is your early lunch warning system. Yes,
seven minutes to find your spot if you're on that noon,
that noon lunch clock hour. I know I'm gonna be
digging into some leftovers today.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
That's what today is. Today. Thursday is leftover day.
Speaker 5 (44:11):
All right.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
So that's what I'm gonna be doing for my quote
unquote lunch today. But uh, but yeah, King, I mean
we've been talking about it. We've been talking about how
this Cleveland Brown's defense, because really that's that's the most
known of these.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Hang On, I want to end. I want I want
you to end on defense. I want you to end
on the I want you to end of the brunch.
But I have to Now you've just brought up the
question because you and I don't quite see eye to eye.
Uh and and now i'd have to stand in the
stepstool to see I'd eye with you, but we don't
see eye to eye. On on on Raiders of the
Lost Arc, which is the best movie?
Speaker 5 (44:46):
I picked one? You picked three? The Rocky movies. There's
it's one and everything else? Correct? Or do you like
three with Clever Lang?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Well? I like three with Clever Lang just because I
mean it just it was entertaining.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
They're all entertaining. I mean obviously you had to start
with one.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
I mean, like I enjoy Rocky four as well, right,
I mean Evan Dragov.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Like that exactly if he dies, he dies, You know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
There's a lot of quotables and in Rocky four. You know,
Rocky three was one that kind of resonated. You know,
I was a huge Mister T fan back in the day,
so you know, I have a special place in my
heart is reserved for Rocky three. But listen, I'm not
gonna fight you on the original because you had to
start somewhere. Those Apollo Creed and and Rocky matchups, Rocky loses.
(45:42):
I think that's also the significance of you know, what
one brought to the table, so you know, and then
after that he never found a way to lose. It
felt like really, I mean, he would lose a match
but then come back in the end and end up
beating the guy, just like in Rocky three. So I'm
with thank you on one. You had to start somewhere.
You had to start the boxing soap opera so to speak.
(46:04):
That was Rocky One's a classic. The others are good movies,
That's what I would say. The others are entertaining movies.
One's a great movie anyway, So I digress. Give us
in the next thirty seconds or so your thumbnail of
what we discussed and what we're looking forward to from
the Browns defense coming up on Sunday, talented group that's
(46:25):
going to be tenacious, is going to be aggressive at
the gate because you've got to do something to change
things up against a team and the Steelers that has
all the momentum going in their favor, So you've got
to do something to make a splash. And so that's
what I really expect from this Browns defense. They're going
to be aggressive, They're going to blitz, They're going to
(46:46):
try and do a lot of different things to really
confuse what the Steelers want to do. And Jim Schwartz
a guy who's very familiar with with Aaron Rodgers and
his prowess and capabilities. So expects of creativity from Jim
Schwarz sports to activate and get Miles Garrett, going to
get Mason Graantle to get this pass rush going, and
to really try and minimize. You know, what the Steelers
(47:08):
run game is going to look like. They're going to
have to figure out how to do it against a
sixth lineman. Then really I would say a seventh lineman actually,
because Darneld Washington technically is are sixth line when.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
He's in there.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
So you know, how how do you stop a team
that employees seven quote unquote offensive line body types to
run at you for a team that you know has
has their depth concerns. You know, as a team that
operates from a four to two nickel base that they
kind of masquerade and move around to pretend to be
(47:39):
a you know, a a three down team, but you know,
for the most part they're operating from a four down,
four to two nickel type of alignment. And you know,
because that means more big personnel. Do you bring a
fifth lineman in? Do you bring a third linebacker? How
do you get to that? And then dropping that safety
in right, because your four two nickels not going to
get you very far ringing against seven guys that's a
(48:02):
jumbo personnel in any other category. So how they deploy that?
You know, is this something where Alex Right bumps in
a little bit more Cam Thomas? Do you bring in
a bigger body? Does Shelby Harris come in? That's gonna
be the question.
Speaker 4 (48:14):
Yeah, it's gonna be a fun little chess match to
watch one final in case you're just joining us.
Speaker 5 (48:19):
A trade.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Greg Newsom, a former first round picked the cornerback for
the Browns, traded for Tyson Chandler with some swap.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Of Campbell going on at cornerback, Tyson Campbell.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
Tyson Campbell, I said Chandler, Tyson Campbell, thank you from Jacksonville.
So interesting, interesting stuff as they make a move after
having traded Joe Flack already.
Speaker 5 (48:41):
It's been an interesting week. Should be an interesting game.
Speaker 4 (48:44):
One more day to get you ready for that game
tomorrow for Justin Miller, our producer for Max Stark, Tom
Rob King, we thank you for being in the Locker Room,
presented by your neighborhood Forward Stour and the Steers Pro
Shop on Stether's Nation Radio, a part of the Steelers
Audio Network.
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