May 4, 2025 • 51 mins
What makes the Savoie department in France so special? In this episode of the Join Us in France Travel Podcast, titled Best of the Savoie Department: Courchevel, Chambéry, Albertville, etc., host Annie Sargent and co-host Elyse Rivin dive deep into the highlights of this beloved Alpine region.
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Savoie is famous for its majestic mountain views, ski resorts, and rich regional culture. Annie and Elyse talk about iconic destinations like Courchevel, a world-class ski resort that draws visitors from around the globe, and Chambéry, the historic capital of Savoie known for its charming old town and Italian-influenced architecture. They also cover Albertville, host of the 1992 Winter Olympics, and nearby attractions that are worth a visit even if you're not into winter sports.
Beyond the ski slopes, the episode explores the region’s food culture—think tartiflette, fondue, raclette, and delicious local wines. They talk about summer activities too: hiking, mountain biking, lake swimming, and exploring picturesque villages.
Whether you’re planning a ski trip, a summer vacation in the Alps, or just curious about French mountain culture, this episode gives you all the inspiration and practical tips you need. Annie and Elyse share personal stories, travel advice, and a genuine love for the region.
Subscribe to the Join Us in France Travel Podcast and never miss an episode full of French travel tips, cultural insight, and destination inspiration.
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
This is Join Us in France, Episode544, cinq cent quarante-quatre.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withElyse Rivin of Toulouse Guided Walks
(00:36):
about the hidden gems of the Savoiedepartment in France, which are about the
unique history, breathtaking landscapes,and charming villages that make this
department a year-round attraction.
This episode has something for skienthusiasts, hikers, or anyone who
loves French culture and cuisine.
(00:57):
We'll share our own experiences,and it's possible that you'll
want to pack your bags and explorethe Savoie department yourself.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
(01:19):
Southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that in myboutique, joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And remember, Patreon supporters get thepodcast ad-free as soon as it's ready.
Click on the link in the shownotes to enjoy this Patreon reward
for as little as $3 per month.
(01:40):
For the Magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Elyse today, I'll
discuss train and road work that happenevery summer and that you need to know
about, and also about the Place dela République in Paris, and whether
it's a good area for you to stay.
(02:07):
Bonjour, Elyse.
Bonjour, Annie.
Today we are going to talk about theSavoie department in France, a place that
you know well because you go very often.
And you were just pointing outto me that the Savoie is not
the same as the Haute-Savoie.
So let's start there.
Yeah, let's start there.
Well, there's the, this part of Francethat is basically the strip, that's
(02:30):
the eastern strip, that's the Alps,that used to be a separate kingdom
called the Kingdom of Savoie, or Savoy.
And it, in fact, for centuries, it was aseparate kingdom, and to make a very long
story very, very short, it was annexedto Italy, and then at the end of the
19th century, and this smacks of thingsthat are going on in the world right
(02:52):
now, there was a deal made between Franceand Italy, and it became part of France.
Welcome to France.
Welcome to France.
You know?
And for, of course, a very, very longtime, and my guess is still in tiny little
villages really hidden away in the deepvalleys will speak a dialect, that's
(03:12):
the Savoy dialect, which is somethinghalfway between Italian and French.
I've never heard it spoken.
I'm sure that there arestill people who do.
But anyway, of course, by that time,there were departments thanks to
Napoleon, we had departments everywherein France, and because it's such
a huge region, they divided it upinto three departments, actually.
So there's the Haute-Savoie, whichmeans it's the northernmost part,
(03:35):
which is actually where Mont Blancis situated, which, of course, is the
highest in Europe, it's over 14,000 feet.
And then you have the Savoie,which is just immediately south.
They chunk... you know, they madea line through the valleys, however
they did that, in the Savoie.
And then you have the Alpesde Haute-Provence, which
is the southernmost part.
So it's basically this long, longstretch, which is a big chunk of
(03:59):
France if you take a look at the map.
And I know the one in the middle themost because I have a stepson and his
family who live in one of the hamletsof Courchevel, which is a very famous,
very, very, very ritzy ski station,and it's dead center in the department.
We've done some visiting of thevalleys and the region around there.
(04:22):
And because I'm not a snow ski personat all, we go in the spring or in the
summer or in the fall, before the snowsfall, so that's, of course, when I like
it, because it is absolutely beautiful.
Right, but it's beautifulany time of year, really.
It's just that if you ski, thenyou would want to go in the winter.
(04:42):
Absolutely.
Courchevel is obviously a veryfamous, very popular ski resort.
So yeah, lots to do in the area.
Very, very popular.
What's interesting about this chunkcalled the Savoie, as opposed to the
Haute-Savoie... Now, the Haute-Savoie,just for people who might have not
been to any of this part of France,but who have heard of certain things,
(05:05):
the Haute-Savoie is basically where yougo if you want to visit and climb Mont
Blanc, or if you want to visit Chamonix.
The local people call itChamonix and Chamonix.
So this is... a bit south of there, butit's a region that's fabulous, and of
course, it is a major, major ski area.
Most of what I have to talk about,and what we really set up to talk
(05:27):
about is not during ski time.
And it turns out that in the Departmentof the Savoie, there is the largest
ski domain in Western Europe, andit's called the Three Valleys.
Mm-hmm.
There are three separate ski stationscalled Les Arcs, Tignes, and Méribel,
and you can literally, if you're agood skier, go from one to the other.
(05:49):
There are over 600 kilometers of skiruns, and you can work your way up
and down and in and out and wherever.
And those are the ones thatattract the most people, because
they're huge, and they havebasically something for everybody.
You don't have to be superrich, like in Courchevel, it's
(06:09):
basically really for the rich.
So just an anecdote, because I'm not sureif you're paying attention to this, but
last week, there was a huge rock slideon the road that is right where there's
this small city called Moutiers, whichI know very well, because it's the road
we take to get to the family house.
I've gone shopping there, I've gone tothe outdoor markets there and everything,
(06:31):
and it's in this very narrow valley.
When you come up from Grenoble, you takethis big, big highway, and you can come
from Albertville, or you can come fromChambéry, or you can come from Grenoble.
All of those three main cities meetin this area to go to Three Valleys.
And so there was this huge rock slidethat closed off the road, and there was
(06:51):
a backup of cars for over 100 kilometers.
And the pompiers, the firemen, andthe local police had to come and
save people, including families,because it's been snowing a lot.
So they were stuck in their cars becauseof this rock slide, and they had to
find places that were like emergencyplaces for people to spend two nights.
(07:14):
It took two nights and two daysfor them to clear out the rocks.
So this was the big news on thetelevision all the time because they
kept idiots going and interviewing thesepeople, asking them how they feel about
being stuck on those roads, you know.
But literally... it's... I mean, how doyou feel about being stuck on the road
when you're going away for your winterholiday, you know, you're in this car?
But it is the road, there are othersmall roads that go into these valleys,
(07:39):
but this was the major road thatliterally branches off at Moutiers and
goes into all of these three valleys.
Because skiing is such a big partof the economy in this region,
it was of course a big deal.
But unfortunately, a rock slideis a thing that you can't predict
ahead of time, you know, so...
Yeah, it's huge.
(07:59):
And speaking of news things, the OlympicGames, the 2030 Winter Games are going
to be in this area of the French Alps,and they will do events at Méribel, one
of the stations that you just mentioned.
Right.
There will be La Plagneas well, Courchevel.
(08:21):
Right.
And Bozel is where the VillageOlympique is going to be.
Yes, and that is where myfamily lives, basically.
They live in a hamlet.
My step-grandson goes tojunior high school in Bozel.
It's gorgeous.
It's a tiny little village.
I don't like narrow, deep valleys that...where you feel closed in, but this part
(08:41):
of the Alps is splendid any time of year.
They are very lucky because the demandfor housing is going to be unbelievable in
this area, and they have their own house,and they also have an apartment for rent.
And so it's going to be very interestingbecause they're predicting that, of
course, the price of real estate isgoing to go sky-high, you know, as a...
Right, right.
(09:02):
What I'm just hoping is that theydon't ruin the landscape, in the sense
that it's a very pretty village withvery typical houses with lots of wood
and wooden balconies, you know, allthe beautiful things that you can
do in the Alps, and this very nicelake and a very nice view everywhere.
So I'm hoping that they don't doanything like high-rise buildings
(09:23):
or anything that will ruin thewhole atmosphere of the place.
Right.
So this area has hadOlympic Winter Games before.
We've had the Grenoble in 1968.
Yes.
And then Albertville 1992.
That's correct.
That's the sort of place it is.
It's Winter Olympics kind of place.
(09:45):
It's a Winter Olympics kind of place.
It really is.
Amazingly, I was just back on,looking at some statistics, the
department is 90% mountain, so...
Wow.
It gives you an idea.
Well, you know, when they saymountain, of course, that includes
the valleys, because, you can't justbe floating around on the top like
the eagles, you know, floating fromone, mountain peak to the other.
(10:07):
But it is a region that isbasically, there's a slight flat
part where you come out of Grenoble,or you come out of Albertville
which is basically on the way.
And then you suddenly rise up, and youcan see the mountains all around you,
to the north, to the east, and then,of course, going to the south if you
turn your head back the other way.
(10:28):
And it's mostly snow-covered mountains.
There are such high mountains thateven in the summertime, you still
have snow all the way up on top.
But it's an area that is wonderfulfor anything outdoors all year
long, and that is, I think, one ofthe reasons why it would be fun,
it's just really fun to talk about.
The biggest city in the departmentis Chambéry, which is not that big
(10:50):
compared to some other parts of France.
It's, I think 70,000 people, at most.
It used to be, in fact, the capital ofthe Kingdom of Savoy, so there is a palace
that you can actually visit, although it'snot as fancy as some other places, but
it's kind of fun to visit it and to getan idea of what it was like at the time.
There's a tiny little old section thatyou can walk through with some medieval
(11:13):
houses that's very, very charming.
And basically, it becomes the gateway,there's the train you can take it,
that you can come up from the south.
You can take a train from Lyon.
It's got a very big train stationbecause it's very important, and from
there, I know a lot of people, theyeither rent a car or they... you can
take a bus, or you can even take asmall choo-choo train that takes you
(11:36):
all the way up to Moutiers, you know.
And basically, Moutiers is prettymuch where everything stops.
You can see that it's this kind ofstrange valley that goes off in sort
of in three different directions.
I should add briefly that, if you aregoing to go in this area, this is a
question somebody asked me recently,if you are going to rent a car and
(11:58):
drive in this part of the country,winter tires are mandatory, and you
may need chains, depending on whetherit... you have fresh snow or not.
If you're planning to rent acar, make sure you let them know
that you need winter tires toany mountainous areas in France.
Winter tires are mandatory.
(12:19):
For instance, when I go to Spain,from Toulouse to Barcelona,
normally, I take the mountainroads but in the winter, I don't.
Because I don't want to put winter tireson my car just to go through that little
you know, chunk of road in the Pyrenees.
But if that's where you're going,then you will need winter tires.
(12:41):
Yes, and in the last couple of years,they've started doing controls on the
roads where they stop, because I know,my stepson, he's a ski monitor, and so of
course he lives in the midst of all thisall the time, and they have two cars.
But they said, "Yeah, now it's, that's it.
They're really controlling,everybody has to have snow tires
and, you have to have winter tires.
And then eventually, if it'sreally, really bad and really deep,
(13:04):
you even need to put chains on.
But they will stop you.
I have no idea honestly, my guess is thatcar rental companies in this area know
that, but it's very good to make sure,before you take the car out, you know?
Definitely.
We've gone to this area, justto give people an idea because,
people who might want to visit theAlps, and it's such a beautiful,
(13:25):
beautiful area to spend some time.
And you can come up from the South,from the Marseille area, you can come
from Lyon which is just to northwesta little bit, you can come from
Paris, you can come from where we are,of course, which is from Toulouse.
You can go by car, you can go bytrain, or you can actually fly to Lyon.
And in Lyon, what a lot of people dois they fly to Lyon and then they rent
(13:47):
a car, if you're coming from far away.
So there is access knowing thatin the winter, of course, once
you get beyond a certain point,really, you have to have a car.
But in the summertime, there arebuses, even tour buses that go up
into some of these big, big valleys.
It just is a lot, you know, nicer ifyou can have a car rental and stop where
you want to, you know, along the way.
(14:09):
Yeah, well, it's rural.
I mean, you know, as soon as youleave the big cities, it's rural,
so you need a way to get around.
Absolutely.
So you know, I mean, basically thisis an area where, when you know that
the biggest city is Chambéry, thesecond-biggest is Albertville, which is
not very big, it's about 30,000 people.
And then you have these small townslike Moutier, which are really small,
(14:32):
except that they don't seem that smallbecause they have all of the activities,
all of the commercial activities, allof the... They have movie theaters,
you know, theater, all of theseactivities that are, because they become
sort of centers that attract people.
Then there's Brides-les-Bains, thereare two or three small towns very close
by that have thermal baths, and lotsof people go to those places for cures.
(14:56):
Brides-les-Bains, which is justabove Moutier, is known for being
a place that people go if theywant to deal with rheumatism or if
they want to try to lose weight.
Right, right.
Les cures, les cures.
Les cures, right.
That's very French.
It's very, very French.
Perhaps I should explain.
French healthcare has had a long traditionof letting people go to these places
(15:22):
for a couple of weeks to help them getbetter control of their weight or of their
diabetes or of their rheumatism or...
And it's usually reimbursed bysocial security, which is our,
it's not our retirement stuff.
Social security in Francemeans medical healthcare.
So people, especially in years past whereit was even more generous than it is
(15:49):
now, people would easily go, like everyyear, they would go to the mountains to
spend a week or two, to be, you know,taught good practices and to go do
thermal baths and do treatments and dosome physiotherapy or kinésithérapie, as
we call it in French, things like that.
(16:10):
And it's kind of old, when you say yougo to a cure, it sounds like you're
an old person, but you know what?
They still do it, likethey still offer it.
They still.
Yeah.
It's a normal kind of part of French life.
And if I understand correctly, nowto be completely reimbursed, it has
to be for a full three weeks, which
(16:33):
is a long time, you know.
A long time to... I think, a lot ofpeople, especially there are lots of
places you could do this also here in thePyrenees, I think a lot of times people
do it because they just want to get awayfor three weeks, you know, and just...
Right, yeah.
And also they're going to have classesabout good practices to manage their
disease, if they're going to loseweight, they're going to be... It's
(16:55):
like boot camp, like it's fat camp, man.
It's, absolutely, absolutely.
You get very hungry, very fast, you know?
Yes.
I've been offered fatcamp before and declined.
Yeah.
I actually did a, just a thermalweekend with my mom a bunch of years
ago in Luchon, which is the closeststation we have here to Toulouse.
(17:18):
They kind of whip you up with this,these water hoses and put you in
these mud baths and things like that.
It's a whole interesting experience.
Maybe we should doanother podcast about...
Yes.
... thermal baths one day.
You know, it's just, it's atotal other world, you know.
No, you're going to make me go.
I don't want to go.
You go.
I'm not going to those things.
Anyway, so, but you know, there'sso much to do in this area.
(17:41):
So just to give an idea of distances,because we're talking about this.
Basically it's 520 kilometers from Paris.
It's 87 kilometers fromLyon, which is nothing.
It's like 50 miles.
It's 85 kilometers from Geneva, becauseyou can take the road from Switzerland,
because this borders on Italy and itborders on Switzerland to the east.
It's 330 kilometers from Marseille.
(18:04):
And it's 45 kilometers from Grenoble,which means that it's like not
even an hour away from Grenoble.
It's really very, very close by.
Right, and the nearestTGV goes to Chambery.
Chambery.
There's actually... I've done theTGV several times to go there.
It's very strange because it, there'sa switch at Valence if you're coming
(18:25):
up from the south for some reason.
I don't know why.
And then it goes, they make youoften change trains in Valence
and then it goes to Chamberry.
Or I think it's because one goesto Chamberry and one goes to Lyon.
I think that's maybe why, but...
Oh, okay.
But yes, yeah, yeah.
There's some kind of switch on the line.
But yes, the train system isrelatively good until you get the
(18:45):
beginning of the valleys that reallygo up into the mountains and then,
of course, it changes everything.
But it is an area that theaverage altitude is 1,500
meters, which is over 4,000 feet.
It's healthy.
It's an area where theair is clean, obviously.
It gets rain, it gets snow.
(19:06):
As opposed to the Haute Savoie, thehighest peak is the Grande Casse, which
is 3,855 meters, which I calculatedas 12,300 and something feet.
Mm-hmm.
It's pretty high.
It's pretty high, and generally speaking,the average altitude is about 900 meters,
(19:28):
which means that you're in healthy air.
Even in the summer when it can getvery, very hot during the day, it
always is nice and cool, not necessarilycold, but cool in the evening.
It's not at all a place where youswelter at night, no matter what.
Right, but in the winter, Grenoblecan have inversions, so bad air due
(19:51):
to inversions, like any mountainareas, they're prone to that.
They're prone to that, absolutely.
So knowing that, in the wintertime,we have all of these ski stations.
You have many, many of them.
Aside from this famous ThreeValleys, there are others.
And most of these areas have nowstarted to convert so that once the
(20:14):
ski season is over, they have otheractivities to bring people in, in
the springtime and in the summer.
Right, yeah.
One of the things that they'vebeen doing is almost all of these
places have wonderful aqua parks,indoor/outdoor swimming pools,
where you have lots of activities.
They have skating rinks.
And it's filled with lakes.
(20:35):
This is the area that's filledwith lakes and it's filled with
hiking trails, with GrandesRandonnées and with national parks.
So you have the National Park of theVanoise, which is the one that I know
the best and which is just absolutelysplendid with many big, huge valleys,
and the trails are very well marked.
There are Auberge and little... in someof them, you have in the valley, you
(20:58):
have places where you can eat, but youalso have places where you can stay.
You have to reserve ahead of time,because most of these places fill up.
A lot of people will rent out a room,but some of them, particularly in
the Vanoise, this is a huge area.
And it's an area that has broughtin more and more people in the
summertime for doing hiking and forpicnicking and for rowing on the lakes.
(21:23):
Some people might wonder whether thereare lots of wild animals, because in
the United States at least, you know, ifyou go into the big national parks, you
have to worry about big, big animals.
In this area, actually, have been somesightings of wolves because they've
been coming... They're Italian wolves.
They actually speak Italian.
They come over across the mountains,they're probably tired of eating Italian,
(21:46):
whatever it is that they eat overthere, but of course there in certain
areas like the Vercours, which is avery, very mountainous area a little
further south where there are lotsof sheep herds, you know, that's the
reason that they're pretty much trapped.
That's what the wolves are after.
That's what they're after.
You know, so there's a lot of controversy,of course, about things like that.
But in general, there are no predatoryanimals of a big size, you know,
(22:11):
that you have to worry about...
Anymore.
... anymore.
Yeah, it used to beplenty, but not anymore.
Yeah, there used to be plenty.
Well, yeah, there used to be plenty,into the 19th century actually.
Yes, there used to be plenty.
So hiking is a wonderful thingto do and it's very family
oriented and family friendly.
(22:31):
And because this is France, you will findplaces along trails where you can stop.
And the Champagny and the Vanoisewhen we go up into these valleys.
Of course, once you get high up, youno longer have this, but you can go
in several miles on these trails, andthen all of a sudden find the kind
of little hut that serves coffee.
This is the wonderful thingabout France, you know?
(22:53):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And one great way to discover suchwonderful hikes is to go to the Komoot
site, K-O-M-O-O-T, and you enter Savoieor, I don't know, Courchevel or whatever
name you want to enter, and you can selecthikes, bike rides, all sorts of activities
(23:19):
and there are reviews, there are photos.
It would tell you the elevation,the level of difficulty.
There will be reviews from peoplesaying, "Oh, I did this with my kids.
It's fairly easy even with kids."Of course, you can also find very
difficult, very technical type of things.
If you use the filtering, you're going tofind fabulous things to do in these areas.
(23:41):
Some of them are loops, some of themare not, you know, all sorts of things.
And we can't possibly cover allof it, but Komoot is a very good
resource to find experienceslike that, and it's totally free.
It sounds great.
Yes.
There are lots of people now whorent electric bikes because then
you can go pretty high up into thevalleys, you know, and these trails
(24:04):
are really well taken care of.
Of course, there are lots of peoplewho still just do hikes by foot, you
know, you see people walking with theirpoles and with their little knapsack,
you know, and things like that.
It's healthy, and it'svery, very, very beautiful.
And a couple of things, forinstance, that are anecdotes, but
it's very interesting to know.
So the last time we were there was at theend of September, beginning of October,
(24:28):
there were still some wildflowers out.
They have special wildflowersthat come out that time of
the year up in the mountains.
And at one point, we werewalking along and I bent over.
I was looking at a flower, andI heard somebody, wasn't even a
ranger, it was just somebody elsewho obviously does these parks and
trails a lot, behind us yell out.
He scared the hell of me.
(24:49):
He, "Don't pick that flower!You're not allowed to pick
flowers in the park," you know?
So, people are very conscious of natureand ecology in these areas, you know?
And at some point, we said, "Oh, wewould like to find some blueberries."
And they said, "No, no, no, no, no.
You can't pick the blueberries." "You haveto go to places that are outside of the
national parks," and things like that.
And I thought, oh, that's interesting, youknow, there's- it's really a respect for
(25:12):
nature that you get in an area like that.
You have to leave them for the birds.
They need it more than we do.
Yes.
You have to leave them for the birds andthe few other animals that, you know,
you get foxes, and you have other nicelittle animals that are kind of fun.
Marmot, if you ever geta chance to see them.
They really do whistle, you know?
(25:33):
Well, how do you say marmot in English?
I think it's just an, I don't know,because it's another- it's a first
cousin of the prairie dog, so I'm notsure how you say marmot in English.
I think it's marmot.
I think?
No?
Because it- prairie dog, amountain prairie dog, that
sounds silly to say, you know?
They stand up on their hind legs andthey give out this whistle that's
(25:54):
unbelievable, and it's kind of like,"Everybody, go back in your hole."
Apparently, it is marmot.
It is marmot.
Yeah.
M-A-R-M-O-T.
Yeah, I've seen lots of them.
They're adorable, you know?
They are.
Actually, you know, it's oneof those things where it's
like, don't try to feed them.
They're not supposedto be tamed, you know?
They're not supposed to come up to you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(26:14):
There's also some beautifulvillages you can visit in this area.
Yes.
So I've listed some of them.
There's one called Bonneval-sur-Arc.
Yes.
It is one of the most beautifulvillages of France, full-time population
is about 250 to 300 residents.
So it's at 1,800 meters of altitudeat the mouth of the Iseran Pass,
(26:40):
which goes up to 9,000 feet.
So this village was not bombed duringWorld War II, so there are many
traditional houses left, with thickstone walls and, you know, sometimes
80 centimeters thick, which is 32inches just for the wall, the stone.
That's the stone, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
(27:01):
And they have roofs made oflauze which is flagstone.
Lauze is slate.
Oh, it's slate.
Okay.
Yeah.
There's the medieval villageabove Albertville called Conflans.
Conflans.
Yeah.
There's one Beaufort, whichis famous for the cheese.
(27:21):
We love that.
Love it.
Love the village, love the cheese,and I love their- the cows.
These are the special cows that producethe Beaufort cheese that you see usually
wandering around in the Vanoise Park.
They gather them up atvarious times of the year.
But if you go into two or three of thevalleys, that you can have easy access
(27:42):
to in the Vanoise, you see the herds,and there'll be signs along the way
saying, "These are the cows that producethe milk for Beaufort cheese." You know?
Yeah.
And sometimes, I've actually, at certaintimes of this year, you can see that
they come with a portable equipmentin these trucks to milk them there.
(28:05):
Oh.
So that they don't have to take them backdown, because this is an area of what
they call the transhumance, which doesnot exist in the United States, you know?
Right.
So transhumance is when you takeyour herds, whether they be sheep
or cows or, to higher pasture in thesummer, and then you bring them back
(28:26):
down in the winter to be in stables.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's usually a big deal.
Like, you can see, in my village,we have a transhumance that goes
by, it goes right by my house.
Right here?
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh.
You know, it's more of a show,because for the longest time, they
were moving the sheep using trucks,but now they are moving them, they're
(28:49):
walking them, and it's an event.
But they have to block off the roads,they have to warn people ahead.
People like me walktheir dogs all the time.
That day, the dogs aresupposed to be on leash.
You know, there's thingsthat they have to do.
Because they go through townswith lots of inhabitants.
Anyway, so yes, transhumance is a thing.
(29:09):
It's a thing, and in the Alpsand in the high Pyrenees, of
course, it's taken very seriously.
So one of the reasons why thisis a region of wonderful cheeses
is because of the summer milk.
Summer milk, it means the highgrasses from high up in the mountains.
So when you go to this area, which Imean, I've been there so many times, they
have a cooperative for cheeses in allthe different towns in the whole region.
(29:34):
And you get all of the differentvarieties, the most famous being,
of course, Beaufort and a coupleof the others, like the Tomme de
Bauges, which is very, very good.
Beaufort, I think, is the most well-known.
But they will tell you, "This is theone made with summer milk. This is
the one made with winter milk." Andyou know, if you like cheese, it's
just like you just salivate justwalking into these places, you know?
(29:55):
Yeah, and Beaufort isactually in high demand.
If you don't know what it is, it's likeComté, which is fairly easy to find.
Comté is a high production kind of cheese.
Beaufort is not produced in suchlarge quantities, and so there's
plenty of times in the yearwhere you can't find it to buy.
(30:16):
Right.
Whereas Comté, you can findComté year round in France,
and probably in the US as well.
They're high densely, they'repressed, what they call pressed
cheeses, these huge round wheels.
They're pressed and very, veryhard and very dense, and so
they keep for a long time.
Yes.
And they are really, reallydelicious and very specific.
(30:36):
It's kind of a funny test to do ifyou want to taste French cheese.
You buy some Comté and you buysome Beaufort, and you see if
whoever's with you can tellthe difference between the two.
It is slight, but it is avery important difference.
I love Beaufort.
I'm...
I love
Beaufort too.
I wish I could find it all the time.
(30:56):
Yes.
In fact, one of the things about goingup there is that, because the price
is so different from trying to get itin any place here, you know, even the
best of the cheese places here, it'sliterally half the price, and it's an
expensive, relatively expensive cheese.
We usually get two or three hugepieces that are packed in a vacuum
thing, and I will actually put acouple in the freezer, even though
(31:19):
it changes the texture a little bit.
But it's like the idea of havingall of that in the house just
makes me feel so good, you know?
But they have other cheeses that areactually delicious that come from there.
And one of them, my husband loves, isthis Tomme de Bauges, B-A-U-G-E-S, which
is one of the other valleys that you havenearby that I actually have not visited.
(31:40):
You can see the mountains of theValley of the Bauges, as you go
up towards Moutier and Courchevel.
But it's a delicious cheese that'smuch closer to a Saint-Nectaire, so if,
those of you out there who have an idea.
Mm, it's a softer cheese, then.
It's not super creamy and runny, butit's a softer cheese with a little bit
more of a, mm, bite, maybe you can say.
(32:00):
Very delicious.
And then a basic cheese that's just aTomme de Savoie, which is a hard cheese,
but not nearly as dense as the Beaufort.
But because this is a region of cheese,it's a region where people traditionally
have fondue, where they have raclette,because the two things that they
have, and of course, this goes back tothe ancient times, is they have lots
(32:23):
of cheese that can be preserved allwinter, and then they have dried meat.
You know, they have dried sausages,and they have dried meats.
And so this became the basicstaple of the diet up there.
And so you still have lots of places,including restaurants, that have this
as your fondue or just as your raclette.
And so if you don't eat cheese, it's alittle hard, it's a little bit f- You can
(32:46):
find, of course, other things to eat, andthere are normal stores everywhere, but
this is an area of really where they havejust the most wonderful cheeses, you know?
Yeah.
Cheese and potato dishes are aplenty.
Aplenty.
And then they have this pasta, calledcrozets, which is interesting because
it's made from buckwheat flour.
Right.
So if you are, if you eat gluten-free,buckwheat has no wheat in it.
(33:10):
Yep.
Yeah, no gluten in it.
No gluten.
I did make some.
You can buy them in the supermarket.
Yeah, they kind of stick together.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the trick is you have to eat itwith, they say the traditional way of
eating it was with melted cheese and thenwith a little bit of the local sausages
up there, which are these small, veryhard sausages called an Diot, D-I-O-T.
(33:33):
Yeah.
I think that you, if you don'tdo that, I'm not sure if, I'm
not sure how creative you can be.
It's a local dish.
We had it up there a few times, and thenI tried it once here and then I thought,
"Nah, I think I'll wait and go back thereand have it in the restaurant," you know.
If you eat gluten-free, crozetsare a good substitution.
Make sure, of course, on the packet thatit does not contain any wheat, but...
(33:54):
Exactly.
Usually when it's made withbuckwheat, there is no gluten in it.
There is a brand of foodstuffs likethat, which are really made up there
in the Savoy area, and so you can lookon the, you can see it on the label.
It's very often accessibleeven in other places.
And then, the thing that makes my heartbeat in the summertime is the blueberries.
(34:17):
Of course, you can't pick them in thenational parks, but because this is
an area where, in the mountains, it'strue also, of course, a little bit in
the Pyrenees, lots and lots and lots ofblueberries at the end of the summer.
So of course this is one of the thingsthat you find in the bakeries that are
very prevalent, the little blueberry tart,and this is, mm, and blueberry jam, and
(34:38):
this is one of those things, you know?
It's just...
And just blueberry, youcan eat it like candy.
It's lovely.
It's lovely.
It's also, in a world where we'rehaving more and more problems with
pesticides and there's problems withproduction of honey because bees are
being killed by a lot of the pesticides,interestingly enough, it's up here
in the mountains that you can stillfind some very, very delicious honey.
(35:02):
I usually bring back a coupleof jars because it's authentic.
It's not stuff that's been, youknow, diluted or anything like that.
Very cool.
Very cool.
So it, I would say that for a changeof pace with a few very lovely little
villages, the villages have thesebeautiful little churches very often
with this kind of bulb on the top.
(35:24):
It almost makes you think of somethingyou might have seen in Russia, but
it's not, it's not Orthodox churches.
It's just the traditionalarchitecture of the Savoy is these
little churches with a kind of bulbon the top of the church tower.
I think at the beginningthey were made out of wood.
I think that was how theywere able to do them.
But it's very typical of the architecturethere, these little churches that have
(35:48):
very thick walls that are made outof stone, and of, as you mentioned, a
few of these very beautiful villages.
But largely, you have lakes, and trailsand wonderful scenery, and most of the
lakes are so clean you can swim in them.
So that's another thing that you can do.
That's very cool.
Before we end, I would like tomention a couple more villages.
(36:10):
There's one calledSaint-Martin-de Belleville.
It's in the Trois Vallées area.
It has a lot of Savoy charm.
It has chalets, a historic church like youwere just mentioning, peaceful atmosphere.
It's a beautiful...
And you know, it feels moreauthentic than some of the more
touristy places in the area.
(36:32):
Near the Méribel ski area, there'ssomething called Les Allues, you
know, it's a little quieter and moretraditional than the bustling ski resorts.
It has stone houses and some narrowstreets and some beautiful views.
Anyway, there are some very cutevillages to visit in this area as well.
If we want to recommend it for aspecific kind of visitors, obviously
(36:55):
it would appeal to anybody who'sinterested in the Olympics coming up.
It would be interesting to peoplewho want to hike and bike and
ski and enjoy an active vacation.
There are no museums in this areathat we, you know, no art museums,
it's not that sort of place.
(37:17):
But it's a place where a familycould easily spend a week and
not run out of anything to do.
Like, it's very fun.
It's very fun and very, verybeautiful, and nice clean air.
Beautiful.
Thank you very much, Elyse.
You are welcome, Annie.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
(37:41):
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get many exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them atpatreon.com/joinus, P-A-T-R-E-O-N,
joinus, no spaces or dashes.
And a special shoutout this week to Ellen,who signed up again as a yearly patron.
(38:03):
Would you join her too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, it would
be wonderful to have you pledge moreso you can have access to more rewards.
Go to patreon.com/joinus,and to support Elyse, go to
patreon.com/elysart, E-L-Y-S-A-R-T.
(38:25):
This week, I'm not going toread any reviews of my tours,
even though there were a few.
I just want to tell you that if youwant to read the reviews for my VoiceMap
tours, you go to joinusinfrance.com/vmr.
And podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website.
It's best for me as well, becauseI get to keep more of what you pay,
(38:49):
instead of giving it to Apple or Google.
But if you buy from my boutique, it'sa manual process, so don't expect it
to be instant like it would be if youwere buying it directly from VoiceMap.
I know most of you listening plan yourtrips at least a few days, perhaps weeks,
perhaps months, perhaps years in advance,so you're probably not in a big rush.
(39:13):
To use your codes, open the VoiceMap app.
On the bottom right, it saysTour Code, tap on it, enter
the code, download the tour.
And this is a digital productthat you own forever, even if
you change phones, for example.
You log into your VoiceMap accountagain, and you can download all
the tours that you own forever.
(39:36):
VoiceMap tours also work even if youhave no data, because you've downloaded
the audio, the images, and the maps,and your phone always has access to
GPS, even if you're in the middleof the desert with no cell towers.
The GPS feature on your phone usessatellites and not cell towers.
(39:57):
And best of all, for those of youwho can't go to Paris as often as
you'd like, you can listen in virtualplayback from anywhere in the world.
You can take me in yourpocket with my VoiceMap tours.
If you're planning a trip to France andyou need personalized advice, you can
hire me as your itinerary consultant.
It's been a busy time for theseconsults, so book your spot early by
(40:21):
going to joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
Most of the time, you'll find a spotwithin a month, but this time of year,
it's more like two or three months.
And I should also say that I'vebeen sending out newsletters again.
If you would like to sign upfor the weekly newsletter, go to
joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
(40:43):
And you should get a newsletter oneither Monday or Tuesday every week,
depending on where you are in the world.
These machines havegotten very, very fancy.
Okay, let's talk about train and roadwork during summer travels in France.
If you're visiting France this summeror any summer really, especially by
(41:05):
train, there's something you shouldplan for: major renovation work on
public transportation, not just inParis, but all over the country.
This is especially common during thesummer months and school vacations
when the French try to limitdisruptions to the regular work week.
A good example of that is the RER Cline in Paris, which will again shut
(41:30):
down large parts of its service betweenJuly 15th and August 23rd, 2025.
This is part of a longstandingmodernization effort that's been going
on for, wait for it, over 30 years.
During this six-week stretch, therewill be no service between Paris and
(41:54):
Versailles on the RER C. You can go toVersailles using the train as well, and
that train goes from Gare Saint-Lazare.
Other affected routes include AvenueHenri-Martin to Ermont-Eaubonne, and
Massy-Palaiseau to Pont de Rungis.
Service within Paris intra muros, as wecall it, which means Paris city proper,
(42:19):
will be almost entirely suspended.
Over 540,000 passengers use the RERC daily, and while some travelers,
like school staff, might be on break,many others will need to find an
alternative routes, so you may face anextra 30 minutes of commute each way.
(42:42):
And to find out what runs andwhat doesn't, go to the transit
authority Ile-de-France Mobilités.
They are the ones who justify the work asessential to bring the line back to the
performance levels of the 1990s and tomake up for decades of underinvestment.
In 2024, four billion was budgetedand another 200 million is planned for
(43:05):
2025 to upgrade the trains, modernizethe infrastructure, and adjust service
to better meet passenger needs.
They report a seven-point improvementin punctuality over the past year.
Nice.
Punctuality is always good, but somecritics wonder why it's taking so long.
In an interview with the press, ArnaudBertrand of the group Plus de Trains asked
(43:30):
why the RER C needs such massive workevery summer when the other lines like the
RER A were renovated in just five years?
So yeah, that's a good question.
The bottom line, if you are comingto France in summer, expect transport
projects especially around major citiesand popular destinations like Versailles.
(43:51):
The same applies to roadworkand regional train lines.
This is all normal in France and part ofkeeping infrastructure working long term.
Plan ahead and double check transitroutes before you go with an app like
Ile-de-France Mobilités or Bonjour RATPor Citymapper, whichever you like to use.
(44:13):
And people are bound to ask about thestrikes that are announced with the SNCF.
There are several announced early inMay, and so far they haven't called
them off yet, so, we never know ifthey're going to happen until 24 hours
before the date that they announce, butso far they haven't called them off.
So, you know, if you are in France,when there's a big strike like
(44:37):
that one of, it's going to bethe 6th, 7th, and possibly 8th of
May, it's best to have a plan B.
And I've asked all the peoplewho are coming to the boot camp,
which starts on May 9th, to havea plan B because, you never know.
Plan B that works well is forinstance a FlixBus reservation.
(44:58):
That's a bus that will, it takesa long time, takes longer than the
train, but it'll get you there.
Or perhaps reserve a car rental that youcan cancel if you're not going to use
it, and some FlixBus tickets you can alsoget your money back if you don't use it.
Let's talk about Place de laRépublique and its graffiti issue.
(45:21):
So I want to give you a quick heads up ifyou're planning to stay near Place de la
République in Paris, it's a lively areawith lots going on but also where many
protests and demonstrations take place.
Most days, it's not a big deal,but if you're the kind of traveler
who prefers predictability, itmight not be the ideal base.
(45:43):
The statue at the center of thesquare called the Monument à la
République has become a magnet forgraffiti, especially during protests.
And every major demonstration, the baseof the statue is often covered in slogans,
political messages, and anti-police tags.
It's a symbolic spot and manypeople feel very strongly about it.
(46:07):
Now, not everyone seesthe graffiti as a problem.
Some locals feel like it's a form ofexpression that fits the square's history.
Others think it's justdisrespectful and messy.
One woman quoted in a recent articlesaid, "I don't think it's respectful.
It's dirty. I might be turning into agrumpy old lady, but it bothers me."
(46:31):
And a friend of hers said, "Ilike that the place feels alive.
The graffiti gives it meaning."
The city, however, isgetting really fed up.
Ariel Weil, the mayor of Paris City Centersays he's tired of seeing the statue
and the square defaced at every protest.
It costs Paris about six million eurosa year to clean up the 650 square
(46:56):
meters of tags every single day.
The city is considering new protectivemeasures that might include raising
the platform around the statue, addingbarriers like the ones around the
Bastille or Place Vendome columns, oreven planting greenery around and blocking
access temporarily during certain events.
(47:18):
Critics say that fencing off thestatue will not solve the problem.
It could even encourage moregraffiti, especially from people
who see the barriers as a challengeto freedom and expression.
And let's face it, graffitiartists are very resourceful
and some of them do a nice job.
I got to say.
Some graffiti is better than others.
Local officials also emphasized thatprofessional cleaners are on it constantly
(47:43):
using high pressure water and minimalsolvents to avoid damaging the stone and
they're pressing charges when they can,especially when they identify repeat
offenders through surveillance footage.
So the bottom line is that thePlace de la République is one
of Paris's major public spaces.
It's full of life, meaning, andactivity but it also reflects
(48:06):
the city's political energy,sometimes literally in spray paint.
So if you're staying in the area,just be aware you might walk into a
peaceful demonstration or see thisstatue half covered in graffiti.
It's not a dangerous area, but that'sdefinitely part of the vibe, and if
(48:28):
you're the kind of traveler who prefersquiet, tidy squares with no surprises, you
should really pick another neighborhood.
My thanks to podcast editors Anneand Christian Cotovan who produced
the transcripts and the audio.
Next week on the podcast,we'll explore the Southwest
of France with Dawn Fairchild.
(48:50):
Dawn will share tales of herincredible solo journey through
Toulouse to the historic depths ofprehistoric caves and much more.
It's an adventure filled withunique experiences, delightful
encounters, and stunninglandscapes and it's the Southwest.
It's amazing, what can I tell you?
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
(49:12):
can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, Episode544, cinq cent quarante-quatre.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withElyse Rivin of Toulouse Guided Walks
(00:36):
about the hidden gems of the Savoiedepartment in France, which are about the
unique history, breathtaking landscapes,and charming villages that make this
department a year-round attraction.
This episode has something for skienthusiasts, hikers, or anyone who
loves French culture and cuisine.
(00:57):
We'll share our own experiences,and it's possible that you'll
want to pack your bags and explorethe Savoie department yourself.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
(01:19):
Southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that in myboutique, joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And remember, Patreon supporters get thepodcast ad-free as soon as it's ready.
Click on the link in the shownotes to enjoy this Patreon reward
for as little as $3 per month.
(01:40):
For the Magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Elyse today, I'll
discuss train and road work that happenevery summer and that you need to know
about, and also about the Place dela République in Paris, and whether
it's a good area for you to stay.
(02:07):
Bonjour, Elyse.
Bonjour, Annie.
Today we are going to talk about theSavoie department in France, a place that
you know well because you go very often.
And you were just pointing outto me that the Savoie is not
the same as the Haute-Savoie.
So let's start there.
Yeah, let's start there.
Well, there's the, this part of Francethat is basically the strip, that's
(02:30):
the eastern strip, that's the Alps,that used to be a separate kingdom
called the Kingdom of Savoie, or Savoy.
And it, in fact, for centuries, it was aseparate kingdom, and to make a very long
story very, very short, it was annexedto Italy, and then at the end of the
19th century, and this smacks of thingsthat are going on in the world right
(02:52):
now, there was a deal made between Franceand Italy, and it became part of France.
Welcome to France.
Welcome to France.
You know?
And for, of course, a very, very longtime, and my guess is still in tiny little
villages really hidden away in the deepvalleys will speak a dialect, that's
(03:12):
the Savoy dialect, which is somethinghalfway between Italian and French.
I've never heard it spoken.
I'm sure that there arestill people who do.
But anyway, of course, by that time,there were departments thanks to
Napoleon, we had departments everywherein France, and because it's such
a huge region, they divided it upinto three departments, actually.
So there's the Haute-Savoie, whichmeans it's the northernmost part,
(03:35):
which is actually where Mont Blancis situated, which, of course, is the
highest in Europe, it's over 14,000 feet.
And then you have the Savoie,which is just immediately south.
They chunk... you know, they madea line through the valleys, however
they did that, in the Savoie.
And then you have the Alpesde Haute-Provence, which
is the southernmost part.
So it's basically this long, longstretch, which is a big chunk of
(03:59):
France if you take a look at the map.
And I know the one in the middle themost because I have a stepson and his
family who live in one of the hamletsof Courchevel, which is a very famous,
very, very, very ritzy ski station,and it's dead center in the department.
We've done some visiting of thevalleys and the region around there.
(04:22):
And because I'm not a snow ski personat all, we go in the spring or in the
summer or in the fall, before the snowsfall, so that's, of course, when I like
it, because it is absolutely beautiful.
Right, but it's beautifulany time of year, really.
It's just that if you ski, thenyou would want to go in the winter.
(04:42):
Absolutely.
Courchevel is obviously a veryfamous, very popular ski resort.
So yeah, lots to do in the area.
Very, very popular.
What's interesting about this chunkcalled the Savoie, as opposed to the
Haute-Savoie... Now, the Haute-Savoie,just for people who might have not
been to any of this part of France,but who have heard of certain things,
(05:05):
the Haute-Savoie is basically where yougo if you want to visit and climb Mont
Blanc, or if you want to visit Chamonix.
The local people call itChamonix and Chamonix.
So this is... a bit south of there, butit's a region that's fabulous, and of
course, it is a major, major ski area.
Most of what I have to talk about,and what we really set up to talk
(05:27):
about is not during ski time.
And it turns out that in the Departmentof the Savoie, there is the largest
ski domain in Western Europe, andit's called the Three Valleys.
Mm-hmm.
There are three separate ski stationscalled Les Arcs, Tignes, and Méribel,
and you can literally, if you're agood skier, go from one to the other.
(05:49):
There are over 600 kilometers of skiruns, and you can work your way up
and down and in and out and wherever.
And those are the ones thatattract the most people, because
they're huge, and they havebasically something for everybody.
You don't have to be superrich, like in Courchevel, it's
(06:09):
basically really for the rich.
So just an anecdote, because I'm not sureif you're paying attention to this, but
last week, there was a huge rock slideon the road that is right where there's
this small city called Moutiers, whichI know very well, because it's the road
we take to get to the family house.
I've gone shopping there, I've gone tothe outdoor markets there and everything,
(06:31):
and it's in this very narrow valley.
When you come up from Grenoble, you takethis big, big highway, and you can come
from Albertville, or you can come fromChambéry, or you can come from Grenoble.
All of those three main cities meetin this area to go to Three Valleys.
And so there was this huge rock slidethat closed off the road, and there was
(06:51):
a backup of cars for over 100 kilometers.
And the pompiers, the firemen, andthe local police had to come and
save people, including families,because it's been snowing a lot.
So they were stuck in their cars becauseof this rock slide, and they had to
find places that were like emergencyplaces for people to spend two nights.
(07:14):
It took two nights and two daysfor them to clear out the rocks.
So this was the big news on thetelevision all the time because they
kept idiots going and interviewing thesepeople, asking them how they feel about
being stuck on those roads, you know.
But literally... it's... I mean, how doyou feel about being stuck on the road
when you're going away for your winterholiday, you know, you're in this car?
But it is the road, there are othersmall roads that go into these valleys,
(07:39):
but this was the major road thatliterally branches off at Moutiers and
goes into all of these three valleys.
Because skiing is such a big partof the economy in this region,
it was of course a big deal.
But unfortunately, a rock slideis a thing that you can't predict
ahead of time, you know, so...
Yeah, it's huge.
(07:59):
And speaking of news things, the OlympicGames, the 2030 Winter Games are going
to be in this area of the French Alps,and they will do events at Méribel, one
of the stations that you just mentioned.
Right.
There will be La Plagneas well, Courchevel.
(08:21):
Right.
And Bozel is where the VillageOlympique is going to be.
Yes, and that is where myfamily lives, basically.
They live in a hamlet.
My step-grandson goes tojunior high school in Bozel.
It's gorgeous.
It's a tiny little village.
I don't like narrow, deep valleys that...where you feel closed in, but this part
(08:41):
of the Alps is splendid any time of year.
They are very lucky because the demandfor housing is going to be unbelievable in
this area, and they have their own house,and they also have an apartment for rent.
And so it's going to be very interestingbecause they're predicting that, of
course, the price of real estate isgoing to go sky-high, you know, as a...
Right, right.
(09:02):
What I'm just hoping is that theydon't ruin the landscape, in the sense
that it's a very pretty village withvery typical houses with lots of wood
and wooden balconies, you know, allthe beautiful things that you can
do in the Alps, and this very nicelake and a very nice view everywhere.
So I'm hoping that they don't doanything like high-rise buildings
(09:23):
or anything that will ruin thewhole atmosphere of the place.
Right.
So this area has hadOlympic Winter Games before.
We've had the Grenoble in 1968.
Yes.
And then Albertville 1992.
That's correct.
That's the sort of place it is.
It's Winter Olympics kind of place.
(09:45):
It's a Winter Olympics kind of place.
It really is.
Amazingly, I was just back on,looking at some statistics, the
department is 90% mountain, so...
Wow.
It gives you an idea.
Well, you know, when they saymountain, of course, that includes
the valleys, because, you can't justbe floating around on the top like
the eagles, you know, floating fromone, mountain peak to the other.
(10:07):
But it is a region that isbasically, there's a slight flat
part where you come out of Grenoble,or you come out of Albertville
which is basically on the way.
And then you suddenly rise up, and youcan see the mountains all around you,
to the north, to the east, and then,of course, going to the south if you
turn your head back the other way.
(10:28):
And it's mostly snow-covered mountains.
There are such high mountains thateven in the summertime, you still
have snow all the way up on top.
But it's an area that is wonderfulfor anything outdoors all year
long, and that is, I think, one ofthe reasons why it would be fun,
it's just really fun to talk about.
The biggest city in the departmentis Chambéry, which is not that big
(10:50):
compared to some other parts of France.
It's, I think 70,000 people, at most.
It used to be, in fact, the capital ofthe Kingdom of Savoy, so there is a palace
that you can actually visit, although it'snot as fancy as some other places, but
it's kind of fun to visit it and to getan idea of what it was like at the time.
There's a tiny little old section thatyou can walk through with some medieval
(11:13):
houses that's very, very charming.
And basically, it becomes the gateway,there's the train you can take it,
that you can come up from the south.
You can take a train from Lyon.
It's got a very big train stationbecause it's very important, and from
there, I know a lot of people, theyeither rent a car or they... you can
take a bus, or you can even take asmall choo-choo train that takes you
(11:36):
all the way up to Moutiers, you know.
And basically, Moutiers is prettymuch where everything stops.
You can see that it's this kind ofstrange valley that goes off in sort
of in three different directions.
I should add briefly that, if you aregoing to go in this area, this is a
question somebody asked me recently,if you are going to rent a car and
(11:58):
drive in this part of the country,winter tires are mandatory, and you
may need chains, depending on whetherit... you have fresh snow or not.
If you're planning to rent acar, make sure you let them know
that you need winter tires toany mountainous areas in France.
Winter tires are mandatory.
(12:19):
For instance, when I go to Spain,from Toulouse to Barcelona,
normally, I take the mountainroads but in the winter, I don't.
Because I don't want to put winter tireson my car just to go through that little
you know, chunk of road in the Pyrenees.
But if that's where you're going,then you will need winter tires.
(12:41):
Yes, and in the last couple of years,they've started doing controls on the
roads where they stop, because I know,my stepson, he's a ski monitor, and so of
course he lives in the midst of all thisall the time, and they have two cars.
But they said, "Yeah, now it's, that's it.
They're really controlling,everybody has to have snow tires
and, you have to have winter tires.
And then eventually, if it'sreally, really bad and really deep,
(13:04):
you even need to put chains on.
But they will stop you.
I have no idea honestly, my guess is thatcar rental companies in this area know
that, but it's very good to make sure,before you take the car out, you know?
Definitely.
We've gone to this area, justto give people an idea because,
people who might want to visit theAlps, and it's such a beautiful,
(13:25):
beautiful area to spend some time.
And you can come up from the South,from the Marseille area, you can come
from Lyon which is just to northwesta little bit, you can come from
Paris, you can come from where we are,of course, which is from Toulouse.
You can go by car, you can go bytrain, or you can actually fly to Lyon.
And in Lyon, what a lot of people dois they fly to Lyon and then they rent
(13:47):
a car, if you're coming from far away.
So there is access knowing thatin the winter, of course, once
you get beyond a certain point,really, you have to have a car.
But in the summertime, there arebuses, even tour buses that go up
into some of these big, big valleys.
It just is a lot, you know, nicer ifyou can have a car rental and stop where
you want to, you know, along the way.
(14:09):
Yeah, well, it's rural.
I mean, you know, as soon as youleave the big cities, it's rural,
so you need a way to get around.
Absolutely.
So you know, I mean, basically thisis an area where, when you know that
the biggest city is Chambéry, thesecond-biggest is Albertville, which is
not very big, it's about 30,000 people.
And then you have these small townslike Moutier, which are really small,
(14:32):
except that they don't seem that smallbecause they have all of the activities,
all of the commercial activities, allof the... They have movie theaters,
you know, theater, all of theseactivities that are, because they become
sort of centers that attract people.
Then there's Brides-les-Bains, thereare two or three small towns very close
by that have thermal baths, and lotsof people go to those places for cures.
(14:56):
Brides-les-Bains, which is justabove Moutier, is known for being
a place that people go if theywant to deal with rheumatism or if
they want to try to lose weight.
Right, right.
Les cures, les cures.
Les cures, right.
That's very French.
It's very, very French.
Perhaps I should explain.
French healthcare has had a long traditionof letting people go to these places
(15:22):
for a couple of weeks to help them getbetter control of their weight or of their
diabetes or of their rheumatism or...
And it's usually reimbursed bysocial security, which is our,
it's not our retirement stuff.
Social security in Francemeans medical healthcare.
So people, especially in years past whereit was even more generous than it is
(15:49):
now, people would easily go, like everyyear, they would go to the mountains to
spend a week or two, to be, you know,taught good practices and to go do
thermal baths and do treatments and dosome physiotherapy or kinésithérapie, as
we call it in French, things like that.
(16:10):
And it's kind of old, when you say yougo to a cure, it sounds like you're
an old person, but you know what?
They still do it, likethey still offer it.
They still.
Yeah.
It's a normal kind of part of French life.
And if I understand correctly, nowto be completely reimbursed, it has
to be for a full three weeks, which
(16:33):
is a long time, you know.
A long time to... I think, a lot ofpeople, especially there are lots of
places you could do this also here in thePyrenees, I think a lot of times people
do it because they just want to get awayfor three weeks, you know, and just...
Right, yeah.
And also they're going to have classesabout good practices to manage their
disease, if they're going to loseweight, they're going to be... It's
(16:55):
like boot camp, like it's fat camp, man.
It's, absolutely, absolutely.
You get very hungry, very fast, you know?
Yes.
I've been offered fatcamp before and declined.
Yeah.
I actually did a, just a thermalweekend with my mom a bunch of years
ago in Luchon, which is the closeststation we have here to Toulouse.
(17:18):
They kind of whip you up with this,these water hoses and put you in
these mud baths and things like that.
It's a whole interesting experience.
Maybe we should doanother podcast about...
Yes.
... thermal baths one day.
You know, it's just, it's atotal other world, you know.
No, you're going to make me go.
I don't want to go.
You go.
I'm not going to those things.
Anyway, so, but you know, there'sso much to do in this area.
(17:41):
So just to give an idea of distances,because we're talking about this.
Basically it's 520 kilometers from Paris.
It's 87 kilometers fromLyon, which is nothing.
It's like 50 miles.
It's 85 kilometers from Geneva, becauseyou can take the road from Switzerland,
because this borders on Italy and itborders on Switzerland to the east.
It's 330 kilometers from Marseille.
(18:04):
And it's 45 kilometers from Grenoble,which means that it's like not
even an hour away from Grenoble.
It's really very, very close by.
Right, and the nearestTGV goes to Chambery.
Chambery.
There's actually... I've done theTGV several times to go there.
It's very strange because it, there'sa switch at Valence if you're coming
(18:25):
up from the south for some reason.
I don't know why.
And then it goes, they make youoften change trains in Valence
and then it goes to Chamberry.
Or I think it's because one goesto Chamberry and one goes to Lyon.
I think that's maybe why, but...
Oh, okay.
But yes, yeah, yeah.
There's some kind of switch on the line.
But yes, the train system isrelatively good until you get the
(18:45):
beginning of the valleys that reallygo up into the mountains and then,
of course, it changes everything.
But it is an area that theaverage altitude is 1,500
meters, which is over 4,000 feet.
It's healthy.
It's an area where theair is clean, obviously.
It gets rain, it gets snow.
(19:06):
As opposed to the Haute Savoie, thehighest peak is the Grande Casse, which
is 3,855 meters, which I calculatedas 12,300 and something feet.
Mm-hmm.
It's pretty high.
It's pretty high, and generally speaking,the average altitude is about 900 meters,
(19:28):
which means that you're in healthy air.
Even in the summer when it can getvery, very hot during the day, it
always is nice and cool, not necessarilycold, but cool in the evening.
It's not at all a place where youswelter at night, no matter what.
Right, but in the winter, Grenoblecan have inversions, so bad air due
(19:51):
to inversions, like any mountainareas, they're prone to that.
They're prone to that, absolutely.
So knowing that, in the wintertime,we have all of these ski stations.
You have many, many of them.
Aside from this famous ThreeValleys, there are others.
And most of these areas have nowstarted to convert so that once the
(20:14):
ski season is over, they have otheractivities to bring people in, in
the springtime and in the summer.
Right, yeah.
One of the things that they'vebeen doing is almost all of these
places have wonderful aqua parks,indoor/outdoor swimming pools,
where you have lots of activities.
They have skating rinks.
And it's filled with lakes.
(20:35):
This is the area that's filledwith lakes and it's filled with
hiking trails, with GrandesRandonnées and with national parks.
So you have the National Park of theVanoise, which is the one that I know
the best and which is just absolutelysplendid with many big, huge valleys,
and the trails are very well marked.
There are Auberge and little... in someof them, you have in the valley, you
(20:58):
have places where you can eat, but youalso have places where you can stay.
You have to reserve ahead of time,because most of these places fill up.
A lot of people will rent out a room,but some of them, particularly in
the Vanoise, this is a huge area.
And it's an area that has broughtin more and more people in the
summertime for doing hiking and forpicnicking and for rowing on the lakes.
(21:23):
Some people might wonder whether thereare lots of wild animals, because in
the United States at least, you know, ifyou go into the big national parks, you
have to worry about big, big animals.
In this area, actually, have been somesightings of wolves because they've
been coming... They're Italian wolves.
They actually speak Italian.
They come over across the mountains,they're probably tired of eating Italian,
(21:46):
whatever it is that they eat overthere, but of course there in certain
areas like the Vercours, which is avery, very mountainous area a little
further south where there are lotsof sheep herds, you know, that's the
reason that they're pretty much trapped.
That's what the wolves are after.
That's what they're after.
You know, so there's a lot of controversy,of course, about things like that.
But in general, there are no predatoryanimals of a big size, you know,
(22:11):
that you have to worry about...
Anymore.
... anymore.
Yeah, it used to beplenty, but not anymore.
Yeah, there used to be plenty.
Well, yeah, there used to be plenty,into the 19th century actually.
Yes, there used to be plenty.
So hiking is a wonderful thingto do and it's very family
oriented and family friendly.
(22:31):
And because this is France, you will findplaces along trails where you can stop.
And the Champagny and the Vanoisewhen we go up into these valleys.
Of course, once you get high up, youno longer have this, but you can go
in several miles on these trails, andthen all of a sudden find the kind
of little hut that serves coffee.
This is the wonderful thingabout France, you know?
(22:53):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And one great way to discover suchwonderful hikes is to go to the Komoot
site, K-O-M-O-O-T, and you enter Savoieor, I don't know, Courchevel or whatever
name you want to enter, and you can selecthikes, bike rides, all sorts of activities
(23:19):
and there are reviews, there are photos.
It would tell you the elevation,the level of difficulty.
There will be reviews from peoplesaying, "Oh, I did this with my kids.
It's fairly easy even with kids."Of course, you can also find very
difficult, very technical type of things.
If you use the filtering, you're going tofind fabulous things to do in these areas.
(23:41):
Some of them are loops, some of themare not, you know, all sorts of things.
And we can't possibly cover allof it, but Komoot is a very good
resource to find experienceslike that, and it's totally free.
It sounds great.
Yes.
There are lots of people now whorent electric bikes because then
you can go pretty high up into thevalleys, you know, and these trails
(24:04):
are really well taken care of.
Of course, there are lots of peoplewho still just do hikes by foot, you
know, you see people walking with theirpoles and with their little knapsack,
you know, and things like that.
It's healthy, and it'svery, very, very beautiful.
And a couple of things, forinstance, that are anecdotes, but
it's very interesting to know.
So the last time we were there was at theend of September, beginning of October,
(24:28):
there were still some wildflowers out.
They have special wildflowersthat come out that time of
the year up in the mountains.
And at one point, we werewalking along and I bent over.
I was looking at a flower, andI heard somebody, wasn't even a
ranger, it was just somebody elsewho obviously does these parks and
trails a lot, behind us yell out.
He scared the hell of me.
(24:49):
He, "Don't pick that flower!You're not allowed to pick
flowers in the park," you know?
So, people are very conscious of natureand ecology in these areas, you know?
And at some point, we said, "Oh, wewould like to find some blueberries."
And they said, "No, no, no, no, no.
You can't pick the blueberries." "You haveto go to places that are outside of the
national parks," and things like that.
And I thought, oh, that's interesting, youknow, there's- it's really a respect for
(25:12):
nature that you get in an area like that.
You have to leave them for the birds.
They need it more than we do.
Yes.
You have to leave them for the birds andthe few other animals that, you know,
you get foxes, and you have other nicelittle animals that are kind of fun.
Marmot, if you ever geta chance to see them.
They really do whistle, you know?
(25:33):
Well, how do you say marmot in English?
I think it's just an, I don't know,because it's another- it's a first
cousin of the prairie dog, so I'm notsure how you say marmot in English.
I think it's marmot.
I think?
No?
Because it- prairie dog, amountain prairie dog, that
sounds silly to say, you know?
They stand up on their hind legs andthey give out this whistle that's
(25:54):
unbelievable, and it's kind of like,"Everybody, go back in your hole."
Apparently, it is marmot.
It is marmot.
Yeah.
M-A-R-M-O-T.
Yeah, I've seen lots of them.
They're adorable, you know?
They are.
Actually, you know, it's oneof those things where it's
like, don't try to feed them.
They're not supposedto be tamed, you know?
They're not supposed to come up to you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(26:14):
There's also some beautifulvillages you can visit in this area.
Yes.
So I've listed some of them.
There's one called Bonneval-sur-Arc.
Yes.
It is one of the most beautifulvillages of France, full-time population
is about 250 to 300 residents.
So it's at 1,800 meters of altitudeat the mouth of the Iseran Pass,
(26:40):
which goes up to 9,000 feet.
So this village was not bombed duringWorld War II, so there are many
traditional houses left, with thickstone walls and, you know, sometimes
80 centimeters thick, which is 32inches just for the wall, the stone.
That's the stone, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
(27:01):
And they have roofs made oflauze which is flagstone.
Lauze is slate.
Oh, it's slate.
Okay.
Yeah.
There's the medieval villageabove Albertville called Conflans.
Conflans.
Yeah.
There's one Beaufort, whichis famous for the cheese.
(27:21):
We love that.
Love it.
Love the village, love the cheese,and I love their- the cows.
These are the special cows that producethe Beaufort cheese that you see usually
wandering around in the Vanoise Park.
They gather them up atvarious times of the year.
But if you go into two or three of thevalleys, that you can have easy access
(27:42):
to in the Vanoise, you see the herds,and there'll be signs along the way
saying, "These are the cows that producethe milk for Beaufort cheese." You know?
Yeah.
And sometimes, I've actually, at certaintimes of this year, you can see that
they come with a portable equipmentin these trucks to milk them there.
(28:05):
Oh.
So that they don't have to take them backdown, because this is an area of what
they call the transhumance, which doesnot exist in the United States, you know?
Right.
So transhumance is when you takeyour herds, whether they be sheep
or cows or, to higher pasture in thesummer, and then you bring them back
(28:26):
down in the winter to be in stables.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's usually a big deal.
Like, you can see, in my village,we have a transhumance that goes
by, it goes right by my house.
Right here?
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh.
You know, it's more of a show,because for the longest time, they
were moving the sheep using trucks,but now they are moving them, they're
(28:49):
walking them, and it's an event.
But they have to block off the roads,they have to warn people ahead.
People like me walktheir dogs all the time.
That day, the dogs aresupposed to be on leash.
You know, there's thingsthat they have to do.
Because they go through townswith lots of inhabitants.
Anyway, so yes, transhumance is a thing.
(29:09):
It's a thing, and in the Alpsand in the high Pyrenees, of
course, it's taken very seriously.
So one of the reasons why thisis a region of wonderful cheeses
is because of the summer milk.
Summer milk, it means the highgrasses from high up in the mountains.
So when you go to this area, which Imean, I've been there so many times, they
have a cooperative for cheeses in allthe different towns in the whole region.
(29:34):
And you get all of the differentvarieties, the most famous being,
of course, Beaufort and a coupleof the others, like the Tomme de
Bauges, which is very, very good.
Beaufort, I think, is the most well-known.
But they will tell you, "This is theone made with summer milk. This is
the one made with winter milk." Andyou know, if you like cheese, it's
just like you just salivate justwalking into these places, you know?
(29:55):
Yeah, and Beaufort isactually in high demand.
If you don't know what it is, it's likeComté, which is fairly easy to find.
Comté is a high production kind of cheese.
Beaufort is not produced in suchlarge quantities, and so there's
plenty of times in the yearwhere you can't find it to buy.
(30:16):
Right.
Whereas Comté, you can findComté year round in France,
and probably in the US as well.
They're high densely, they'repressed, what they call pressed
cheeses, these huge round wheels.
They're pressed and very, veryhard and very dense, and so
they keep for a long time.
Yes.
And they are really, reallydelicious and very specific.
(30:36):
It's kind of a funny test to do ifyou want to taste French cheese.
You buy some Comté and you buysome Beaufort, and you see if
whoever's with you can tellthe difference between the two.
It is slight, but it is avery important difference.
I love Beaufort.
I'm...
I love
Beaufort too.
I wish I could find it all the time.
(30:56):
Yes.
In fact, one of the things about goingup there is that, because the price
is so different from trying to get itin any place here, you know, even the
best of the cheese places here, it'sliterally half the price, and it's an
expensive, relatively expensive cheese.
We usually get two or three hugepieces that are packed in a vacuum
thing, and I will actually put acouple in the freezer, even though
(31:19):
it changes the texture a little bit.
But it's like the idea of havingall of that in the house just
makes me feel so good, you know?
But they have other cheeses that areactually delicious that come from there.
And one of them, my husband loves, isthis Tomme de Bauges, B-A-U-G-E-S, which
is one of the other valleys that you havenearby that I actually have not visited.
(31:40):
You can see the mountains of theValley of the Bauges, as you go
up towards Moutier and Courchevel.
But it's a delicious cheese that'smuch closer to a Saint-Nectaire, so if,
those of you out there who have an idea.
Mm, it's a softer cheese, then.
It's not super creamy and runny, butit's a softer cheese with a little bit
more of a, mm, bite, maybe you can say.
(32:00):
Very delicious.
And then a basic cheese that's just aTomme de Savoie, which is a hard cheese,
but not nearly as dense as the Beaufort.
But because this is a region of cheese,it's a region where people traditionally
have fondue, where they have raclette,because the two things that they
have, and of course, this goes back tothe ancient times, is they have lots
(32:23):
of cheese that can be preserved allwinter, and then they have dried meat.
You know, they have dried sausages,and they have dried meats.
And so this became the basicstaple of the diet up there.
And so you still have lots of places,including restaurants, that have this
as your fondue or just as your raclette.
And so if you don't eat cheese, it's alittle hard, it's a little bit f- You can
(32:46):
find, of course, other things to eat, andthere are normal stores everywhere, but
this is an area of really where they havejust the most wonderful cheeses, you know?
Yeah.
Cheese and potato dishes are aplenty.
Aplenty.
And then they have this pasta, calledcrozets, which is interesting because
it's made from buckwheat flour.
Right.
So if you are, if you eat gluten-free,buckwheat has no wheat in it.
(33:10):
Yep.
Yeah, no gluten in it.
No gluten.
I did make some.
You can buy them in the supermarket.
Yeah, they kind of stick together.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the trick is you have to eat itwith, they say the traditional way of
eating it was with melted cheese and thenwith a little bit of the local sausages
up there, which are these small, veryhard sausages called an Diot, D-I-O-T.
(33:33):
Yeah.
I think that you, if you don'tdo that, I'm not sure if, I'm
not sure how creative you can be.
It's a local dish.
We had it up there a few times, and thenI tried it once here and then I thought,
"Nah, I think I'll wait and go back thereand have it in the restaurant," you know.
If you eat gluten-free, crozetsare a good substitution.
Make sure, of course, on the packet thatit does not contain any wheat, but...
(33:54):
Exactly.
Usually when it's made withbuckwheat, there is no gluten in it.
There is a brand of foodstuffs likethat, which are really made up there
in the Savoy area, and so you can lookon the, you can see it on the label.
It's very often accessibleeven in other places.
And then, the thing that makes my heartbeat in the summertime is the blueberries.
(34:17):
Of course, you can't pick them in thenational parks, but because this is
an area where, in the mountains, it'strue also, of course, a little bit in
the Pyrenees, lots and lots and lots ofblueberries at the end of the summer.
So of course this is one of the thingsthat you find in the bakeries that are
very prevalent, the little blueberry tart,and this is, mm, and blueberry jam, and
(34:38):
this is one of those things, you know?
It's just...
And just blueberry, youcan eat it like candy.
It's lovely.
It's lovely.
It's also, in a world where we'rehaving more and more problems with
pesticides and there's problems withproduction of honey because bees are
being killed by a lot of the pesticides,interestingly enough, it's up here
in the mountains that you can stillfind some very, very delicious honey.
(35:02):
I usually bring back a coupleof jars because it's authentic.
It's not stuff that's been, youknow, diluted or anything like that.
Very cool.
Very cool.
So it, I would say that for a changeof pace with a few very lovely little
villages, the villages have thesebeautiful little churches very often
with this kind of bulb on the top.
(35:24):
It almost makes you think of somethingyou might have seen in Russia, but
it's not, it's not Orthodox churches.
It's just the traditionalarchitecture of the Savoy is these
little churches with a kind of bulbon the top of the church tower.
I think at the beginningthey were made out of wood.
I think that was how theywere able to do them.
But it's very typical of the architecturethere, these little churches that have
(35:48):
very thick walls that are made outof stone, and of, as you mentioned, a
few of these very beautiful villages.
But largely, you have lakes, and trailsand wonderful scenery, and most of the
lakes are so clean you can swim in them.
So that's another thing that you can do.
That's very cool.
Before we end, I would like tomention a couple more villages.
(36:10):
There's one calledSaint-Martin-de Belleville.
It's in the Trois Vallées area.
It has a lot of Savoy charm.
It has chalets, a historic church like youwere just mentioning, peaceful atmosphere.
It's a beautiful...
And you know, it feels moreauthentic than some of the more
touristy places in the area.
(36:32):
Near the Méribel ski area, there'ssomething called Les Allues, you
know, it's a little quieter and moretraditional than the bustling ski resorts.
It has stone houses and some narrowstreets and some beautiful views.
Anyway, there are some very cutevillages to visit in this area as well.
If we want to recommend it for aspecific kind of visitors, obviously
(36:55):
it would appeal to anybody who'sinterested in the Olympics coming up.
It would be interesting to peoplewho want to hike and bike and
ski and enjoy an active vacation.
There are no museums in this areathat we, you know, no art museums,
it's not that sort of place.
(37:17):
But it's a place where a familycould easily spend a week and
not run out of anything to do.
Like, it's very fun.
It's very fun and very, verybeautiful, and nice clean air.
Beautiful.
Thank you very much, Elyse.
You are welcome, Annie.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
(37:41):
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get many exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them atpatreon.com/joinus, P-A-T-R-E-O-N,
joinus, no spaces or dashes.
And a special shoutout this week to Ellen,who signed up again as a yearly patron.
(38:03):
Would you join her too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, it would
be wonderful to have you pledge moreso you can have access to more rewards.
Go to patreon.com/joinus,and to support Elyse, go to
patreon.com/elysart, E-L-Y-S-A-R-T.
(38:25):
This week, I'm not going toread any reviews of my tours,
even though there were a few.
I just want to tell you that if youwant to read the reviews for my VoiceMap
tours, you go to joinusinfrance.com/vmr.
And podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website.
It's best for me as well, becauseI get to keep more of what you pay,
(38:49):
instead of giving it to Apple or Google.
But if you buy from my boutique, it'sa manual process, so don't expect it
to be instant like it would be if youwere buying it directly from VoiceMap.
I know most of you listening plan yourtrips at least a few days, perhaps weeks,
perhaps months, perhaps years in advance,so you're probably not in a big rush.
(39:13):
To use your codes, open the VoiceMap app.
On the bottom right, it saysTour Code, tap on it, enter
the code, download the tour.
And this is a digital productthat you own forever, even if
you change phones, for example.
You log into your VoiceMap accountagain, and you can download all
the tours that you own forever.
(39:36):
VoiceMap tours also work even if youhave no data, because you've downloaded
the audio, the images, and the maps,and your phone always has access to
GPS, even if you're in the middleof the desert with no cell towers.
The GPS feature on your phone usessatellites and not cell towers.
(39:57):
And best of all, for those of youwho can't go to Paris as often as
you'd like, you can listen in virtualplayback from anywhere in the world.
You can take me in yourpocket with my VoiceMap tours.
If you're planning a trip to France andyou need personalized advice, you can
hire me as your itinerary consultant.
It's been a busy time for theseconsults, so book your spot early by
(40:21):
going to joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
Most of the time, you'll find a spotwithin a month, but this time of year,
it's more like two or three months.
And I should also say that I'vebeen sending out newsletters again.
If you would like to sign upfor the weekly newsletter, go to
joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
(40:43):
And you should get a newsletter oneither Monday or Tuesday every week,
depending on where you are in the world.
These machines havegotten very, very fancy.
Okay, let's talk about train and roadwork during summer travels in France.
If you're visiting France this summeror any summer really, especially by
(41:05):
train, there's something you shouldplan for: major renovation work on
public transportation, not just inParis, but all over the country.
This is especially common during thesummer months and school vacations
when the French try to limitdisruptions to the regular work week.
A good example of that is the RER Cline in Paris, which will again shut
(41:30):
down large parts of its service betweenJuly 15th and August 23rd, 2025.
This is part of a longstandingmodernization effort that's been going
on for, wait for it, over 30 years.
During this six-week stretch, therewill be no service between Paris and
(41:54):
Versailles on the RER C. You can go toVersailles using the train as well, and
that train goes from Gare Saint-Lazare.
Other affected routes include AvenueHenri-Martin to Ermont-Eaubonne, and
Massy-Palaiseau to Pont de Rungis.
Service within Paris intra muros, as wecall it, which means Paris city proper,
(42:19):
will be almost entirely suspended.
Over 540,000 passengers use the RERC daily, and while some travelers,
like school staff, might be on break,many others will need to find an
alternative routes, so you may face anextra 30 minutes of commute each way.
(42:42):
And to find out what runs andwhat doesn't, go to the transit
authority Ile-de-France Mobilités.
They are the ones who justify the work asessential to bring the line back to the
performance levels of the 1990s and tomake up for decades of underinvestment.
In 2024, four billion was budgetedand another 200 million is planned for
(43:05):
2025 to upgrade the trains, modernizethe infrastructure, and adjust service
to better meet passenger needs.
They report a seven-point improvementin punctuality over the past year.
Nice.
Punctuality is always good, but somecritics wonder why it's taking so long.
In an interview with the press, ArnaudBertrand of the group Plus de Trains asked
(43:30):
why the RER C needs such massive workevery summer when the other lines like the
RER A were renovated in just five years?
So yeah, that's a good question.
The bottom line, if you are comingto France in summer, expect transport
projects especially around major citiesand popular destinations like Versailles.
(43:51):
The same applies to roadworkand regional train lines.
This is all normal in France and part ofkeeping infrastructure working long term.
Plan ahead and double check transitroutes before you go with an app like
Ile-de-France Mobilités or Bonjour RATPor Citymapper, whichever you like to use.
(44:13):
And people are bound to ask about thestrikes that are announced with the SNCF.
There are several announced early inMay, and so far they haven't called
them off yet, so, we never know ifthey're going to happen until 24 hours
before the date that they announce, butso far they haven't called them off.
So, you know, if you are in France,when there's a big strike like
(44:37):
that one of, it's going to bethe 6th, 7th, and possibly 8th of
May, it's best to have a plan B.
And I've asked all the peoplewho are coming to the boot camp,
which starts on May 9th, to havea plan B because, you never know.
Plan B that works well is forinstance a FlixBus reservation.
(44:58):
That's a bus that will, it takesa long time, takes longer than the
train, but it'll get you there.
Or perhaps reserve a car rental that youcan cancel if you're not going to use
it, and some FlixBus tickets you can alsoget your money back if you don't use it.
Let's talk about Place de laRépublique and its graffiti issue.
(45:21):
So I want to give you a quick heads up ifyou're planning to stay near Place de la
République in Paris, it's a lively areawith lots going on but also where many
protests and demonstrations take place.
Most days, it's not a big deal,but if you're the kind of traveler
who prefers predictability, itmight not be the ideal base.
(45:43):
The statue at the center of thesquare called the Monument à la
République has become a magnet forgraffiti, especially during protests.
And every major demonstration, the baseof the statue is often covered in slogans,
political messages, and anti-police tags.
It's a symbolic spot and manypeople feel very strongly about it.
(46:07):
Now, not everyone seesthe graffiti as a problem.
Some locals feel like it's a form ofexpression that fits the square's history.
Others think it's justdisrespectful and messy.
One woman quoted in a recent articlesaid, "I don't think it's respectful.
It's dirty. I might be turning into agrumpy old lady, but it bothers me."
(46:31):
And a friend of hers said, "Ilike that the place feels alive.
The graffiti gives it meaning."
The city, however, isgetting really fed up.
Ariel Weil, the mayor of Paris City Centersays he's tired of seeing the statue
and the square defaced at every protest.
It costs Paris about six million eurosa year to clean up the 650 square
(46:56):
meters of tags every single day.
The city is considering new protectivemeasures that might include raising
the platform around the statue, addingbarriers like the ones around the
Bastille or Place Vendome columns, oreven planting greenery around and blocking
access temporarily during certain events.
(47:18):
Critics say that fencing off thestatue will not solve the problem.
It could even encourage moregraffiti, especially from people
who see the barriers as a challengeto freedom and expression.
And let's face it, graffitiartists are very resourceful
and some of them do a nice job.
I got to say.
Some graffiti is better than others.
Local officials also emphasized thatprofessional cleaners are on it constantly
(47:43):
using high pressure water and minimalsolvents to avoid damaging the stone and
they're pressing charges when they can,especially when they identify repeat
offenders through surveillance footage.
So the bottom line is that thePlace de la République is one
of Paris's major public spaces.
It's full of life, meaning, andactivity but it also reflects
(48:06):
the city's political energy,sometimes literally in spray paint.
So if you're staying in the area,just be aware you might walk into a
peaceful demonstration or see thisstatue half covered in graffiti.
It's not a dangerous area, but that'sdefinitely part of the vibe, and if
(48:28):
you're the kind of traveler who prefersquiet, tidy squares with no surprises, you
should really pick another neighborhood.
My thanks to podcast editors Anneand Christian Cotovan who produced
the transcripts and the audio.
Next week on the podcast,we'll explore the Southwest
of France with Dawn Fairchild.
(48:50):
Dawn will share tales of herincredible solo journey through
Toulouse to the historic depths ofprehistoric caves and much more.
It's an adventure filled withunique experiences, delightful
encounters, and stunninglandscapes and it's the Southwest.
It's amazing, what can I tell you?
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
(49:12):
can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
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