March 2, 2025 • 53 mins
Have you ever dreamed of exploring France beyond the usual tourist spots? In Exploring France’s Hidden Gems: An Anniversary Adventure, host Annie Sargent chats with Gina Angelillo about her unforgettable trip through Normandy, Saint-Malo, and Paris.
Get the podcast ad-free
Gina, from New York, shares the highlights of her journey, from walking the historic ramparts of Saint-Malo to visiting the moving D-Day beaches with Overlord Tours. She describes the beauty of Honfleur’s marina, enjoying fresh oysters with a view, and experiencing the grandeur of the Bayeux Tapestry. In Paris, she embraced café culture, visited smaller museums like the Rodin Museum and the Conciergerie, and even took a wine and cheese tasting at Ô Chateau.
Gina also discusses the benefits of renting a car in Normandy versus using France’s efficient high-speed trains. She explains why she prefers hotels over Airbnbs, and how she planned her itinerary to make the most of her time without feeling rushed.
This episode is packed with practical travel tips, personal stories, and hidden gems that will inspire your next trip to France. Tune in to hear all about Gina’s anniversary adventure and get ideas for your own unforgettable journey!
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Annie (00:16):
This is Join Us in France, episode 535, cinq cent trente cinq.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withGina Angelillo about her unforgettable
(00:36):
anniversary adventure in France.
Join us as we explore the charmingstreets of Saint Malo, savor
delicious French cuisine, strollthrough smaller museums, and dive
into the rich history of Normandy.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
(01:00):
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that at myboutique joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And remember, Patreon supportersget the podcast ad-free
and as soon as it is ready.
Click on the link in the shownotes to enjoy this Patreon reward
(01:22):
for as little as $3 per month.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Gina today,
I'll discuss something very strangehappening with population shifts.
I wonder if you know how bigsome of these French cities are.
(01:47):
Bonjour Gina Angelillo andwelcome to join us in France.
Gina (01:52):
Bonjour, happy to be here.
Annie (01:53):
Wonderful to talk to you today.
We are going to talk aboutyour anniversary adventure.
You explored Normandy,Saint-Malo and Paris.
So this was which anniversary for you?
Gina (02:05):
It was our 23rd.
Annie (02:07):
Fun.
Okay.
And have you been to Francea lot or was this new?
Gina (02:11):
So my husband and I both went separately when we graduated college.
So that was a million years ago.
And then I actually went withmy girlfriends when we turned
50 last year in November.
And we had such a great time.
We were in Paris for a week, and so thisyear, in October, I went with my husband.
Annie (02:30):
Fun.
Okay.
So feel free to mentionboth of those trips.
Obviously, you know, it's a different,but you know, if you have good
recommendations for people, I'm surethey'll be happy to hear it, even if
it wasn't on your anniversary trip.
All right.
So I asked you, like I doeverybody, to tell me what they
liked most about their trip.
(02:51):
The first thing you mentioned iswalking the ramparts in Saint-Malo.
Gina (02:54):
We loved Saint-Malo.
I did read 'All the Light We CannotSee', so I was kind of excited
to go there, and it's way morebeautiful than I even expected, and
we just had a great day walking.
It was very sunny and warm, we hadcoffee down at the beach, there were
people taking out kayaks, and we just,you know, took a lot of pictures, and
(03:15):
I just loved how laid back it was.
We didn't really do anything special,but it was just a beautiful day.
Annie (03:20):
Right.
And if the weather cooperates, which isnot always a given in Saint-Malo, but if
the weather is good, that's fantastic.
Yeah, it's a beautiful place.
And it's just full of atmosphere, I guess.
It's one of these cities that it wasrebuilt after, it was mostly rebuilt
after World War II, but they rebuiltit in the same way it had been before.
(03:41):
And I think it looks glorious.
Gina (03:43):
It's beautiful.
It had so much charm.
It exceeded my expectations entirely.
We, you know, the little cafes outsidewhere you can have a coffee or a drink.
After that day walking the ramparts, wesat, I don't remember what it's called,
but it's, there's that strip where it'sall of these restaurants and cafes,
really pretty right by the Ramparts,like on and built against the wall there.
And we went somewhere and I had musselsand French fries and it was beautiful.
(04:08):
It was gorgeous.
We were lucky to have her.
Yeah.
Annie (04:11):
So this was in early October, so it wasn't too busy, I assume.
I mean, I'm sure there werepeople out, but not lots and lots.
Gina (04:19):
No, I thought it was perfect.
There was a lot of people, so you didn'tfeel like, you know, it was a ghost
town or anything, but we had no troublegetting into restaurants and finding a
table at a cafe or anything like that.
It was nice.
Annie (04:31):
Fantastic.
Fantastic.
All right.
So the second thing you mentionedis trolling around beautiful streets
of each city, finding charmingspots, ducking into churches.
So you enjoy visiting churches as well?
Gina (04:43):
Yes, we went into almost every church we passed, you know, just
to pop in and just take a look.
You know, it's just, we don'thave that kind of majesty in
the US, so it was special.
Just kind of walking around,light a candle, you know, take
some pictures and back out.
Annie (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they're free in France, so you don't need a
ticket or you don't need anything.
You can just, if it's open, whichis sometimes it's not, but if
it's open, you can enjoy lookingaround the church and doing some
contemplation if you're so inclined.
Fantastic.
Gina (05:17):
And sometimes it was really funny.
We were walking in the Latin Quarter andwe turned this corner, it was the day
that it was like teeming rain, you know,and I'm standing there and I look and
I was like, that's the church from thatmovie, Midnight in Paris, and I could
recognize the stairs and everything.
It was like so exciting.
And they were having a little likeevent inside with music that night.
Annie (05:37):
So that church is called Saint Étienne du Mont, and it's right by the
Pantheon for people who want to do this.
And it is totally the steps, it's on theside of the church, those are the steps
that if you watch Midnight in Paris, hewent to wait for the taxi every night.
It's epic.
Epic.
Gina (05:55):
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
And it was it looks just likefrom the movie, obviously it
does, but it was kind of fun.
We turned the cornerand I was like: Stop!!
Annie (06:05):
That's great.
That's great.
You enjoy French food, it sounds like,because that's the third thing you listed.
And eating fabulous foods in gorgeoussettings like mussels I had in
Saint-Malo or the oysters in Honfleur.
Gina (06:19):
Yes, I'm Italian.
My parents are from Italy andwe grew up eating everything.
So, we love food and definitelysampling French cuisine is top of
the list and it did not disappoint.
Honfleur is just such a beautifulcity and sitting there by the water,
again, we had amazing weather everysingle day, except that one day
in Paris, which was unbelievable.
(06:39):
It teemed the entire day, butother than that, it was beautiful.
And just sitting in Honfleur inthe marina and having oysters,
you know, we just felt so lucky.
It was wonderful.
Annie (06:50):
Right.
Most of these cities, really, allyou have to do is just go to the city
center, go to the historical city center,or the waterfront in the case of a
place like Honfleur that has a beach.
And typically, you will findall sorts of wonderful things.
Did, I assume you droveyourselves to these locations?
Gina (07:11):
Yes, we rented a car.
We landed in Paris super early, it waslike 6am when we landed, and so we rented
a car from the airport and drove rightto, I'm going to say this wrong... Rouen?
Annie (07:24):
Rouen.
Rouen.
Gina (07:27):
Our lovely tour guide when we went to the D-Day beaches taught us how to say
it correctly, but it's so hard to say.
Annie (07:33):
Yeah, it's difficult because you have Ou-en, Ou-en, Rouen, and
you have the French r as well.
So that one, you know, I don'tfault you for not being able to
say it, it's really very specific.
Gina (07:47):
That was the hardest.
Yeah.
And it's very different from Italian.
I speak Italian.
It doesn't help me at allwith the French, so, anyway.
Yes, we drove first to Rouen andwe were there for the entire day.
We had a full day becausewe got there so early.
Loved it!
And then we drove to Honfleur andBayeux, Mont Saint Michel, Saint-Malo.
Annie (08:10):
In Rouen, did you have a thing planned or did you just show
up and started looking around?
Gina (08:17):
We just showed up and started looking around because I didn't
know how we were going to feel,you know, whether we'd be really
tired or I didn't really know whatto expect to be perfectly honest.
Our first day I would try tokeep it like kind of light.
I loved it there.
We got there, like I said, so early in ourhotel room was ready, so that was great.
We got rid of the car and droppedoff our stuff, freshened up a
(08:37):
little bit and had a full day.
We started to get a little tiredin the afternoon and we were just
like walking around and havingcoffee and taking it all in.
The shopping is, the stores are, Ithink it's the best shopping anywhere.
Yeah.
I feel like they took all of the cuteshops from Marais and Saint Germain and
(08:57):
all of the goods department stores andcondensed it into this like small area.
I was disappointed that I didn'ttake my girlfriends there.
It was our first day, so I wasn't goingto, I didn't want to go shopping and then
have to carry stuff around all the wholetrip, you know, so I didn't buy anything.
This is very disappointing, but westarted to get tired in the afternoon,
(09:19):
so we took that train ride that goesaround, you know, it's very touristy.
Annie (09:23):
Right.
The little train.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gina (09:25):
Yeah, and you listen to like an audio, but we loved it.
It gave us like a lot of history.
It told us about the museumsthere, which are all free.
So when we finished the trainride, we went over to the Beau
Arts Museum, which we loved.
We really like the smaller museums,they're just a lot more manageable.
Anyway, so we went to a beautifuldinner there that night.
(09:45):
That was just unbelievable.
And yeah, we just loved it.
All the cathedrals andthe history was great.
Annie (09:53):
So I want to mention that all, you listed all the hotels where you stayed,
you mentioned that you prefer hotels thanAirbnbs, and I want you to tell me why.
But so you've listed all the hotelswhere you stayed and also several
restaurants where you ate, soI'll put that in the show notes.
But do tell me why do youprefer hotels versus Airbnbs?
(10:13):
Because lots of people wonderwhich one should I book?
Gina (10:17):
Well, you know, definitely I prefer hotels for the ability to
drop off your bags, because a lot oftimes you get to somewhere and you
can't check in until four o'clock.
You know, I don't want to be stuckwith my suitcases and I felt
like France was very, very safe.
I mean, Italy is very safe too, but Iwouldn't really encourage anyone to leave
their suitcases in your car in Italyfor any prolonged period of time, that's
(10:43):
you're asking for trouble if you do that.
So, I prefer staying at hotels whereI could just drop off my stuff, drop
off the car, and I like also havinga front desk that can recommend,
you know places to go for dinneror, excursions that kind of thing.
I just prefer it.
Annie (10:59):
Yeah, it simplifies your life greatly, honestly, because some
Airbnbs are very good about givingyou suggestions about meeting you
earlier, about things like that.
But some are just not, like,honestly, and there's no way to tell
because the reviews on Airbnb, Idon't know, I just don't trust them.
(11:21):
Even places where I've gone to stay,it seems like people don't mention
half of the stuff that they should,like, why didn't anybody say that the
elevator it's teeny tiny, you can onlygo in with one suitcase at a time.
Like, why didn't anybody mention that?
Because it's a big deal.
Like, you know!
And so I think people tryto be nice to the host.
(11:41):
Like if the host was nice to them,then they want to reciprocate.
They want to be nice.
They just don't mentionthings that they should.
Gina (11:49):
I agree.
And I, you know, especially a triplike this, where we kind of, we stayed
at a number of different hotels.
I don't want to bebothered with an Airbnb.
Like, I just want to check in,drop off my stuff, move along, you
know, like I don't need a kitchen.
I don't need anything like that.
Yeah, it was good.
Annie (12:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
On a short trip it's great.
Airbnb has its good points, you know,if you're traveling with family or
with a big group of people, perhapsyou'll have better luck with Airbnb.
But yeah, I hear you.
Gina (12:21):
I love it when somebody makes me a cup of coffee in the
morning too, when I'm on vacation.
Annie (12:26):
Yeah, exactly.
It's very true that it gives you morefreedom and more time to enjoy what you
came here for rather than go shopping,although going shopping for groceries
can be interesting in France as well.
Gina (12:40):
Yeah, we did enjoy the market.
Annie (12:41):
So, you mentioned in your fourth thing is you enjoy cafe culture.
Like you just mentioned thecoffee, the outside seating,
especially in Saint-Malo in Paris.
These are things you can't get in the US.
That's what I love, I mean, some placesin the US, I'm sure you can get these
things, but not everywhere, right?
Where's home for you?
Gina (12:59):
New York, and we're right outside of the city, so we go into the city all the
time, and we were just there last weekend.
We went to the Met, to see anexhibit there, and afterwards,
you know, we were still in amindset of, you know, cafe culture.
Let's stop and have a coffee,and like a little cafe, and you
really can't do that in New York.
You can't sit, I listened to yourpodcast, let me just say, and I learned
(13:22):
a lot about café culture from thatepisode, and I listened to it a few
times, because I had several tripsplanned to France, one that got cancelled
in 2020, but I had prepared for it.
But in any case, you can't in NewYork just sit at like a cafe with
service and just order a coffee,you like, you can't do that.
You have to order a meal.
(13:42):
They don't let you just havean espresso, like you have to
go to a coffee shop for that.
And then you get it like in a papercup and there's no outside seating
or anything like it's to go, youknow, so we just loved that whole
cafe culture of just being able, likethe day that it was teeming rain in
Paris, we did a wine and cheese lunch.
It was like a class.
(14:03):
And that was really fun.
And then afterwards we werewalking and we do everything
outside, even in the pouring rain.
But, like, it eventually started rainingso hard, we just pulled over and just
had a coffee someplace so pretty.
I don't know where we were.
It was in Marais somewhere.
And I just love that just beingable to pull over, have a glass
of wine or have a coffee, andthen get up and leave, you know.
(14:26):
And I learned from you that ifthe table isn't set, you can
sit and just have a coffee.
If it's set, then, youknow, that's for a meal.
Yeah.
I wish we had that in New York.
I really do.
Annie (14:39):
So, the episode you mentioned, Cafe Culture, is episode 228 of the podcast.
It's an oldie, but goodie becausethings don't change you know, I
mean, it's still the same thing.
And at the Met, I was there, recently aswell, and at the Met, there is a little
cafe at the very top, but it's like,there's hardly anywhere to sit, it's lots
of people, and everything is 20 bucks.
Gina (15:02):
And the coffee wasn't good.
I couldn't really drink it.
It wasn't good.
Annie (15:07):
I didn't order coffee there.
What did I order?
I don't remember what Igot, but I got something.
Gina (15:12):
I got a coffee and a chocolate croissant.
I was trying to, like, recreate it.
I was like, this isn't working.
Annie (15:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, but I hear you.
It's not the same cafe culture.
The other thing you saidis you can pull over.
You weren't in a car.
Were you in Paris?
Gina (15:26):
No, No,
Annie (15:27):
Oh, I
Gina (15:27):
meant on foot.
Annie (15:28):
On foot.
Okay.
So yeah, you just stop what you'redoing and go into, duck into a cafe and
warm up and enjoy that for a moment.
Yeah.
Gina (15:37):
Right, just, you know, take a little lube off and then walk.
Annie (15:40):
Yeah.
And when you do that, you should,that's also the time, you should use
the bathroom, and wash your handsand also fill your water bottle.
This is a thing I have about people whowalk around with a giant water bottle
because they want enough for the wholeday, you really don't need to do that.
You can walk with some, I mean, you shouldhave some water with you just in case you,
I don't know if you choke on a pretzelor something, but you can just have a
(16:03):
little bottle and then refill it when yougo to a cafe, you know, that's the way.
Gina (16:07):
That's what I did.
I just had a disposable water bottle thatI would carry in the morning and then,
you know, just like refill it and thenif I lose it along the way, whatever...
Annie (16:16):
It's fine.
Yeah, it's fine.
You mentioned visiting smallermuseums like the ones in Honfleur.
So do tell about that one.
I haven't been to that one,so I want to hear about it.
Gina (16:27):
I don't even remember what they were called, but there was this
really old building right off themarina there in the main part of town.
And it was dedicated to their sea history.
And you know, everything wasin French, so I couldn't really
read it or, but it was beautiful.
And just walking around this old,very old, original, it had been
(16:49):
a church and they renovated it tobe this little museum, just cute.
That's what we like to do.
And then it was like a buy one.
So we ended up going into another littlemini museum there, which was like the
history of life in Honfleur at that time.
And they, you know, justshowed like a real house.
There was a prison.
(17:09):
Yeah, it was just, it's nice tojust get that little glimpse.
It was all like, you know, periodpieces and stuff like that inside.
Annie (17:16):
That's a really good point because, there are a lot of places where you
can't, I mean, it's not like you canknock on people's house door and ask if
you can see the inside of their house.
But if you, if there's a public museumor something that you can go into,
sometimes they are decorated reallywell, a period kind of decoration
decor that, and of course nowadayspeople don't live like that, but
(17:40):
it's still really interesting to see.
And most of these little museums,they don't take very long and
they don't cost very much.
So why not?
Pop in, see, you might findsomething extraordinary.
Gina (17:51):
It was fun.
Annie (17:51):
Yeah.
You went to the Tapestry Museum in Bayeux?
Gina (17:55):
Yes, and I had low expectations of that too.
You know, I don't know tapestries,but and I've been on your podcast
Facebook group for a very long time.
So, I knew to go there and Iknew people talked about it.
But again, I didn't reallyknow what to expect.
It was great.
And I love how the museum doesit with the audio, explaining
each frame as you go along.
(18:16):
It was very impressive.
We really, really liked that.
My husband's really into history, andso he sort of filled in some of the
gaps that I, that I missed, and itbecame like an ongoing story, like the
Normans and the British and whatever,you know, the whole history there.
Kind of like throughout ourwhole trip, you know, kind of
carried through the whole trip.
And so, yeah, I would highly recommendanyone who visits Bayeux to see that.
(18:41):
I got a lot out of it.
It was great.
Annie (18:43):
Yes, and if you go with children, I think it's the BBC that
has a really good series, or, not justfor children, for anybody, but they
have a series that explains the Bayeuxtapestry to children, especially.
And so they explain a little bit of theNorman Conquest, which, you know, it
was a major step in Britain's history.
(19:04):
So, a really interesting thingto see with, and it, I mean,
it really looks fabulous.
I'm not even into tapestry, orneedlepoint, or anything like
that, but dang, it's beautiful.
Like, I respect the people who made this.
Gina (19:20):
It's so old too and the way it survived all the way
it was handled and everything.
It's very impressive.
It's really a work of art, yeah.
Annie (19:29):
Yeah, and then you also did a half day tour through Overlord tours.
They get recommended all the time.
What was it like?
Gina (19:36):
It was great.
So it was a van and we met, we stayed,you know, in Bayeux right in town.
We had a good location there.
And so it was just like around the corner,8:30 in the morning was the pickup.
And it turned out we were the only peoplethat booked a half day tour that day.
So we had a private tour witha driver, which, you know,
couldn't have been better.
And our driver was very,very well informed.
(19:58):
He was a real historybuff and knew everything.
You know, my husband is a bighistory buff and certainly World
War II, and I have a lot of friendswho are really into that too.
But there's something to besaid for going on a tour.
You know, he gives these inside storiesthat you don't know from the books.
And just little things that werereally interesting and cool.
(20:18):
Like, at one point, he took us to thespot where it was like the side of, it
looked like maybe a barn or, you know,just like a building, and there was a
huge photograph in black and white ofwhat that area looked like during World
War II when the US tanks were coming by,and there were like tanks in the picture.
And like, he parked the car exactlylike where the tank was, and so
(20:41):
you could imagine yourself in thescene, and it looked exactly like,
you know, how it did back then.
Annie (20:47):
Wow.
Gina (20:48):
So just those little things and like little inside stories about some of
the, you know, the rangers from the US.
It really adds a lot.
Annie (20:55):
It makes it unforgettable really, when you get a good tour guide
that puts everything into context.
And context is everything like, you know,you can tell somebody facts all day long,
but if they don't understand the context,it's not going to mean much to them.
Whereas if they get some context,especially some physical context
(21:17):
like this, it's really very cool.
Gina (21:20):
And our driver had a real passion for the subject and he was from the area.
And so, you know, every time you couldtell that every time he told the story,
he was telling the story of his homeland.
It was an emotional experience to, youknow, hear these stories and everything.
You're standing there on the beachand he's talking about what happened
and, you know, it's really a lot.
(21:41):
It's beautiful.
And then he took us to the Americancemetery too, which was very,
very beautiful and very moving.
Annie (21:48):
That's wonderful.
And a half a day is not very long, youknow, sometimes, because they also do
day long tours, they do two day tours.
For me, that would be overload,you know, like too much of a good
thing, but a half a day tour...
Gina (22:03):
Yeah, I feel like we saw a lot and I guess the people,
the full day tour is very long.
It's 8:30 to 6:30.
I struggled with that.
I thought we were going to dothe full day tour, but I assumed
we would be done at like 4.
You know 6:30, I was like, wow,that's really the entire day, I don't
know if I could do all that WWII.
And my husband was like... Idon't... he saw the list of what
(22:26):
we were going to see for the halfday and he felt that was enough.
And he is a real history buff too.
And he doesn't feelshortchanged in any way.
But I'm sure a full daywould have been really great.
Annie (22:37):
Yeah.
Gina (22:37):
But the half day was enough.
Annie (22:38):
Yep.
Yep.
You have to find what suitsyou and both are just fine.
One of the good things about the goodtour companies like this one is that they
hire very good guides because they aresuccessful and they can afford to pay.
They don't have to shortchangeJohnny come lately guides.
They can have really serious guideswho know the history and all that.
(23:01):
Then back to Paris, you enjoyedyour visit to the Conciergerie, and
this is one that most people skip.
So should they not skip?
Gina (23:09):
I don't think they should skip it.
I liked it.
And they have like tablets.
I kind of found that a little annoying.
At first I thought it was great,and then I was like, Oh, I want
to carry this around all the time.
But you can point it at thesekiosks and then hold it up and
it'll show you what the Conciergerielooked like back in the day.
So that was kind of cool, butlike I said, it got a little
(23:31):
bit, like, okay, that's fine.
Annie (23:33):
Yeah.
After a while, you're done with that one.
Gina (23:35):
My husband loves the history, and when you're with somebody that
really likes whatever it is thatthey like right, it rubs off on you.
So then I started getting like reallyinto it and everything it was fun.
Yeah, we had a goodtime going through that.
That was really nice.
And you know, I'm a real plannerand if I showed you my itinerary,
you would be like... I'm, you know!
(23:56):
We had this wine lunch planned andso we stayed in the Latin Quarter,
so I had planned it perfectly that wewere going to pass the Conciergerie
on our way to the wine tour.
So it was very efficientgoing through everything.
So it was definitely worth stoppingcause we had to walk through anyway.
Annie (24:12):
Sure.
Yeah.
And it takes about, I guess ifyou're a history buff and you really
want to read everything, look ateverything, they have some videos and
things like that, that you can watch.
It would take a couple of hours,but you can really get a good feel
for it in about an hour, I think.
And there's a nice area dedicated to MarieAntoinette as well, that people love.
(24:36):
And so, yeah, I think it's a veryworthwhile museum to go into.
Gina (24:41):
Yes.
I think it definitely...it definitely was.
Annie (24:45):
You went to the Rodin Museum, which is also a favorite for a lot of people.
Can you tell us about that?
Gina (24:52):
It's beautiful.
The grounds are beautiful.
His sculptures are reallymoving and interesting.
What was it?
The gates of hell.
That is very impressive to lookat and then all like them, you
know, when they take it all apart.
Oh, you know what I loved?
The statue of the men that were...
Annie (25:10):
The burglers of Calais.
Gina (25:12):
Yes, yes.
And then afterwards, Iwas so moved by that.
I had read about them and the wholehistory of what happened there
and it was, you know, kind of apolitical time when I was there.
It was October, before our ownelections and it was just sort of
like kind of moving to see them andthat history, and really loved that.
Yeah, and that's really a lovely museumto walk through like everybody says I'm
(25:34):
not the first person to say it but it'sso manageable and... we walked there
right from seeing Napoleon's tomb whichI also recommend and that was nice.
So it was great little area.
Annie (25:47):
Yeah.
So, the Les Invalides, Napoleon's tombis not very far from the Rodin Museum.
So it's good to, youknow, do those together.
And you know, if you are from a largecity like you are from New York City,
Rodin was a very prolific sculptor.
He made castings and his workswere reproduced, they were made
(26:09):
not just once, but many times.
And so it's possible that you are froma city that already has a version of the
Gates of Hell or the Burglers of Calais,and in that case, perhaps you don't want
to prioritize the Rodin Museum, but seeingit in person is really quite a different
experience than looking at photos.
(26:32):
And for my patrons, I did a wholelong, it was several years ago,
but I did a whole thing about theBurglers of Calais and the history.
If you're a new patron you have tolook through the older stuff, there's
some oldies but goodies down there.
At any rate, you also went to thePantheon and the Carnavalet Museum.
So tell us about those.
Gina (26:52):
The Pantheon, we went down into the crypts and that was, you
know, I think it was like Voltaire,he's buried there or was that in?
Annie (26:59):
No, he's there.
Gina (27:00):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And who else?
Annie (27:03):
Oh,
Gina (27:04):
Rousseau?
Yeah.
Annie (27:06):
Recent ones.
Gina (27:07):
Right.
I mean, but like some philosophers.
Annie (27:10):
Oh, philosophers.
Gina (27:11):
They were buried right near each other.
So that was, kind of reminded meof like England where you have
Mary, Queen of Scots and QueenElizabeth buried next to each other.
It was sort of like that inthe crypts of the Pantheon.
So I enjoyed that and yeah, therewas Marie Curie and that was kind
of interesting to walk throughand see all the people there.
Annie (27:29):
Louis Braille is one that I admire greatly, that is also in the Pantheon.
Gina (27:34):
And I loved the Pantheon at night.
We stayed in the Latin Quarter, so wehad passed it a few times at night.
At night, all of these young peoplesit out on the steps and there's
some tables on the side or like...even like traffic things, whatever.
And they sit on them andeveryone's just like hanging
around and it was really nice.
It was lit up at night, so beautiful.
Annie (27:53):
So it's a university area, and it's also where the library Saint Geneviève
is, and that's a very popular library.
It probably closes at seven.
But it's an area where young people meet,because it's, I mean, you can't miss it.
If you tell your friends, let's meet atPantheon, you know, that's probably why
he was waiting for the taxi there, becausethere's many people coming through.
Gina (28:17):
Yeah, and it's all lit up.
It's all white.
It's beautiful.
It's all lit up at night and theyhave the beautiful French flag lit
up flying, and we had great weather.
So it was just beautiful to walk through.
Annie (28:28):
I'm interested in the fact that you put Saint-Malo much higher, you
ranked it much higher than the MontSaint Michel, which is what comes next.
Can you tell us your impressionsof both and why you liked
one over the other better?
Gina (28:42):
Mont Saint Michel was more crowded, it was like exercise, I
mean, it was like a mile and a halfwalk just to get there, which was,
you know, like, what is it called?
Like, it was like our journey.
Annie (28:53):
It's a hike up there, yes.
Gina (28:54):
There's buses that'll take you, and we're walkers, so it was fine, but,
you know, so we walked all the way there.
There are buses
Annie (29:00):
that will take you?
Gina (29:01):
Yeah.
Like, from the parking lot, you can waitin line for a bus and it'll take you.
Annie (29:05):
Right, but that's just the bus that takes you to the bottom of the hill.
Gina (29:08):
Right, right, right.
Annie (29:09):
Then you have to hoof it up.
Gina (29:10):
It's like a mile at least to Mont St. Michel.
We didn't take the bus.
So we were like already, you know,exercised before we got there.
And then you have to walk all theway up, which, you know, it was fun,
it was an adventure and everything.
But, you know, I feel like itwas a little bit, I don't want
to say that it was touristy.
Annie (29:28):
But it is.
Gina (29:29):
But it's not that, because Saint-Malo is touristy too, you know,
but it's just like a different kind oftouristy, like it's not, for me it wasn't
the kind of place that I would spend thatmuch time, like we walked all the way to
the top, you know, went into the cryptsand stuff there, took a bunch of pictures.
We had some lunch on the way backdown, my husband bought a gargoyle
thing, you know, and then we left.
Annie (29:51):
Yeah.
Gina (29:52):
There wasn't, you know, it wasn't the kind of place I was going to like
luxury because everything is like ata 45 degree angle, so... it's not like
You can just walk around and like hangout, you know, like you just slide down.
Annie (30:05):
Did you stay the night, or what did you do?
Gina (30:08):
No, no, we just drove.
So we left Bayeux early and we droveto Mont Saint Michel in the morning.
We got there like by 9, I guess we walkedover and got in around 10, and then
just we left by like 2 or 3 and thendrove to Saint-Malo because it's only
50 minutes to Saint-Malo from there.
Annie (30:28):
Yeah, it's not very far, yeah.
Gina (30:30):
No, it was like the perfect stop in between Bayeux and Saint-Malo.
If you were doing my trip, I wouldn'tmiss it because it's right on the way.
You should definitely stop there.
I wouldn't... Yeah, and so atSaint-Malo, I guess you could drive in
town, but we didn't feel comfortablewith that, so we parked in the public
parking right outside of the ramparts.
(30:51):
Our hotel was close, youknow, from where we parked.
So we had our suitcases, and we kind ofwalked through, like, you know how there's
like that little gate you get through,like where the harbor is, there's the
ramparts and it's like a gate, right?
Like, I don't know whatelse you would call it.
You walk through and as soon aswe walked through and we were in
(31:11):
like the old section, I just feltlike dropping my bags and being
like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing.
Look at this.
There are cobblestone streetsare like, cobblestones are
huge, you know, really hard.
Don't wear high heels.
That's for sure.
And it just was so charming and everybodywas outside and it was like a fairy land.
(31:32):
I loved it.
Annie (31:34):
That's fantastic.
That's great.
Gina (31:35):
There was really good shopping in, if you're interested in shopping, which I
am, but for the ladies, whatever, there'sreally good shopping in Saint-Malo, too.
It's not Rouen, but like Bayeux,I would say... is not like
your shopping destination.
Annie (31:52):
No... even I can tell.
Gina (31:53):
Yeah, they have, like, cute things in Bayeux, like take home
souvenirs and stuff like that, butnot, like if you wanted to go fashion
shopping or anything like that.
But, like, if you askme, Saint-Malo has it all.
Annie (32:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, Saint-Malo, Saint-Malo isa place with plenty of money.
It's old money.
It's people who, I have a dear friendwho's from there, her mother lived
there and she grew up there anddefinitely old money in that area.
Gina (32:21):
It felt really upscale.
And so did Rouen.
It felt very upscale.
Like, if you're from New York,you know, think of Saint-Malo
like you think of the Hamptons.
It's upscale.
Annie (32:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that sort of thing.
That's great that you love shoppingbecause I don't pay attention to
shopping, but I could have told youthat Bayeux was not a place to go
shopping because it's like older stores.
It's not, yeah, they probably havea nice kind of mall outside of
the city, but their city center isnot geared towards people who like
(32:52):
boutiques and things like that.
Gina (32:54):
Yeah, no, it's just touristy things that they had.
I mean, I liked it andeverything, I just...
Annie (33:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You enjoyed visitingsome open air markets.
Did you plan that or didyou just happen upon them?
Gina (33:07):
I happened upon it in, I guess it was probably Bayeux.
Yeah.
In Bayeux, I happened upon it.
It was still going on when wegot home from the Overlord tour.
So we were ready for lunch.
So we walked through and I ended upbuying, I shouldn't say this because
will I get in trouble with the TSA, but Ibought dried smoked sausage to bring home.
(33:31):
You know, we're Italians who alwayswant to try that, and the lady didn't
speak any English, so I didn't evenknow what I was buying, and I was
like, you know, we eat everything.
Give me one of each.
We'll just try it.
And they were, they were delicious.
I brought them to my parents house and Ishared with my sister and my mom and dad.
Annie (33:49):
And they didn't confiscate them at the border?
Um... you know, they didn't ask.
I didn't tell.
I had it in my suitcase.
Uh huh.
Uh huh.
Yeah, that's all right.
Gina (33:59):
I was ready to lose it if I needed to.
Annie (34:01):
Sure, sure.
Yeah, good for you.
Very good.
You did a wine and cheesetasting lunch in Paris.
You mentioned it earlier.
Do you remember the name of the company?
Gina (34:10):
Yeah, I have it here.
Let me see.
Ô Chateau.
Annie (34:14):
Ô Chateau.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
I've been there several times.
It's excellent.
I'll put a link in the show notes.
An excellent place.
Gina (34:22):
Yeah, it was fun.
It was a good experience.
We met some nice people,which was kind of fun.
Our leader, whatever, theteacher was a lot of fun.
That was nice.
We were soaking wet.
That was the day of the teeming rain.
So it was nice to just be someplacewarm and nice drinking some wine.
Yeah.
So that was really good.
I would say that, you know,definitely have something to eat
(34:46):
before you go because it, it wasn'tlike generous with the wine issues.
We even ordered the charcuterie to gowith, you know, it's like two and a half
hours with a little cheese and breadand so if you're expecting to be full
after this, you're not going to be.
Annie (35:00):
Yes.
Gina (35:00):
You know, maybe just have brunch that morning.
Annie (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, the servings of wine are generous, so you
might get drunk a little bit.
Unless you drink a lot, all the time,then you, it's going to be a lot.
But I mean, it's pleasant,and you're just walking, so...
Gina (35:17):
Oh, it's, I would recommend it, just don't go on an empty stomach.
Annie (35:20):
Right, right.
And if you type in your browser: joinusinfrance.com/wine1 the number one, (35:21):
undefined
it'll take you right to Ô Chateau becauseI use that link all the time, I've gone
many times, so I made myself a link.
Gina (35:35):
And I think it's a wine bar.
I think you could just go there, youdon't have to take the class, you
could just go and sample wine there.
There is a very pretty bar there.
Annie (35:43):
Yeah.
Upstairs is a nice wine bar as well, butI mean, anywhere in Paris, you can go
up to a bar and order a glass of wine.
You don't need to go to a winebar to enjoy some wine in Paris.
You can just go to any cafe orbar and ask for a bottle of wine,
or a glass of wine, or whatever.
Wonderful.
You enjoyed the LuxembourgGarden and a boat trip down
(36:05):
the Seine and the catacombs.
We don't have that much time.
So which one did you want to talk about?
Gina (36:09):
You know, they're all, I feel like those go without saying, right?
They're nothing really unique.
One thing, if you wanted to talkabout something unique that I did
with my girlfriends, we did a MakeYour Own Perfume class at Candora.
And that was really fun.
We learned a lot about thehistory of perfume and how it even
started, and how, you know, Parisbecame the epicenter of perfume.
(36:33):
And then we got to make our ownperfume, which was a lot of fun.
It was really a good time.
So if you're, and there were menin taking this class too, so, you
know, good for all ages, but peopleare always looking for things to do
with their teenagers or whatever.
This is fun.
Annie (36:48):
Good.
Gina (36:48):
I would definitely recommend it.
Annie (36:50):
Yeah, that sounds excellent.
What else did you do that wasexciting with your girlfriends?
Besides shopping, I'm sureyou did plenty of shopping.
Gina (36:58):
We did.
We did do shopping and we took awine tour, and we did it through
a company called Wine Tours Paris.
We took it to Burgundy, which was,this was really great, because our
guide whose name was Louis, he pickedus up in Paris with a van and we left
(37:18):
really early, like 7:30 in the morning.
And I think we weredrinking wine by 10:30.
I like, it wasn't that far,like kind of slept in the van.
And then he took us to three differentwine chateaus, and he was very
knowledgeable and that came witha lunch, lunch was included with
that, and the lunch was generous.
It was cheese and charcuterie andeverything, but very generous.
(37:41):
And that was lovely.
We learned so much.
We had such a good time.
He is a phenomenal host.
Knows so much about wine and thenhe drove us back to Paris, we
were back to Paris by like 7:30.
So it was a great guide.
Annie (37:52):
So you're going to have to send me the link to his service
because I don't think you includedit in what you sent me already.
So do send me that and I'll link it inthe show notes, so people who want to do
that, because that, that's a great daytrip from Paris I mean, it's an early
morning, but if you're with friends...
Gina (38:09):
It's a great day trip, especially if someone's like, you know, nervous
about having to catch the train.
He has one tour like the Champagneregion too, but you have to take
the train and he picks you up fromthere, but this one, he drives you
right from town, so that was good.
And another thing I did with mygirlfriends that everybody like kind of
talked about, we did go to Citi Pharma,for the whole skin care experience.
Annie (38:31):
For the Caudalie products, are you Caudalie people,
or are you other products?
Gina (38:36):
I'm everything people.
Annie (38:37):
Okay.
Gina (38:39):
I did buy the Caudalie.
I bought that this time with my husband,but yeah, so that's a lot of fun.
If you kind of like, you know, cosmeticsand skincare and that kind of thing.
I didn't know what to expect.
I always get a little nervousof, you know, looking foolish,
whatever, in a foreign countrywhere you don't speak the language.
But everyone's so friendly and youknow, you just walk in and start walking
(39:01):
around and then these lovely salesladies approach you and they're there
to help and you just tell them whatyou're interested in or what problems
you're trying to solve, and they'vegot all kinds of suggestions for you.
It's just a lot of fun.
I would definitely go.
Annie (39:13):
So how do people find this?
Gina (39:15):
How do they find it?
It is in St. Germain.
Annie (39:18):
So you just search for it, right?
Citi Pharma in Saint Germain.
It's CITI, like C I T I, and there's,I was told that there's a line to get
in, so we got there like really earlyso you'd avoid the line, but I was there
with my husband in October and with mygirlfriend in November, and I didn't
experience any trouble with lines.
(39:38):
Yeah, there is one in Toulouse aswell, most cities probably have a
Citi Pharma, it's on 26 Rue du Four,and it closes today at 9 pm, but
right now is a very busy time to go.
It's big enough that Google tellsyou how many people are there.
It's crazy, the things theyknow, but yeah, go ahead.
Gina (40:01):
Well, I just want to say that the prices are cheaper at Citi Pharma.
My daughter really wanted that Nax... Nux?
Is that how you say it?
The lip oil, the honey lip oil.
And so I figured I would, it's likea thing that teenage girls here like.
So I figured, let me, youknow, just buy it for her.
So I bought it for her at Citi Pharma.
And then I sort of noticed it atother pharmacies and at the airport.
(40:23):
And it was significantly cheaper atCiti Pharma than it was elsewhere.
So I do think you get good prices there.
Annie (40:29):
It's a popular place.
Lots of ladies on the Join us inFrance Facebook group mention it.
It's a big one.
So that's great.
All right.
Gina, so wonderful to talk to you,really, I think a lot of people
are going to want to go on thistrip and it's great that you did.
You kept it... like you wentto Paris and to Normandy.
(40:50):
The end.
You didn't try to do allof France in two weeks.
How long was this trip for you?
Was it 10 days or a week?
Gina (40:57):
I think it was like 11 days.
Annie (41:00):
And it's reasonable, you have time to sleep in, you have time to enjoy
your vacation, some of the days anyway,you know, which is really important.
Especially, you know, itwas your anniversary trip.
You got to take it easy a little bit.
Gina (41:12):
We did.
We wanted to have a nice time andnot push ourselves to do too much.
Although I think we did a lot, butwe still had lots of time to sit in
the Contrescarpe and have a coffee.
Annie (41:23):
You sure did, but there's people, who in 11 days, they will
try to see all of France and...
Gina (41:28):
No, that's just not possible.
And you know, I developed, I don'tknow if it's your Facebook group
and your podcast or what, but I'vedeveloped quite a little love of France.
So, I'm pretty sure my husbandand I will be coming back and
see a little bit more of France.
That's good.
Yeah, because there's plentyof Italians who love France and
French people who love Italy.
You know, they're both great countries.
(41:49):
They're very different, butvery great, both of them.
They are very different, but like yousaid, very great, each in their own way.
You know, you can't compare Paris andRome, like it's two different things.
Annie (41:59):
Two different things.
The Italians beat the crap outof us when it comes to art and
how they do their churches.
Oh my goodness.
Those churches in Rome,ah, out of this world.
In France, they're good, butin Rome, it's incredible.
Gina (42:13):
Yeah, I feel like Paris is more urban.
It's more modern.
There's a lot to see, whereas likeRome is like antiquity and romantic.
It's two different things.
Annie (42:25):
Yeah, two different things.
Gina (42:27):
Yeah, I can't compare.
One thing I just want to say,though, is we did have the car,
and we drove it to Saint-Malo.
When we got to Saint-Malo, we gotrid of the car and we took the
high speed train back to Paris.
That was so smart.
Instead of driving all the way back,four and a half hours, and then
having to deal with getting rid ofthe car when we got to Paris, we
just got rid of it in Saint-Malo.
(42:47):
And then we took the train, which was Ithink 25 Euro for the first class seat
and we were there in two and a half hours.
So I would definitely recommend thatif you're going back to Paris, just
lose the car and travel by train.
It's so easy.
I bought my train tickets in advance.
Everything just wasreally, really seamless.
Annie (43:07):
Fantastic.
Yes.
And definitely, if you don't needto drive the car back all the way to
Paris, just arrange to drop it off.
It'll cost you a little bit more probablyto do a pickup somewhere and a drop
off somewhere else, but probably notthat much and saves you a lot of time.
And I mean, taking the highspeed train is fun in of itself.
Like it's a fun experience, I think.
Gina (43:27):
It was, and it was easy, so it's not something to stress about.
Annie (43:31):
Thank you so much, and I wish you many more wonderful trips to France, Gina.
Gina (43:36):
Thank you.
Annie (43:36):
Merci.
Au revoir.
Gina (43:38):
Au revoir.
Annie (43:46):
Again, I want to thank my patrons for giving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
I don't have any new Join Us in Francechampions to thank this week because
(44:06):
I'm recording this early, but let methank the 10 patrons who've contributed
the most over the years, and some ofthem have been patrons since 2017:
Ann Berzin, Paul Trainer Ray Pierantoni,Shannon Kitchen, Delores McNair,
Nancy Colyar, Tracy Gillespie, EricaLuhr, Shelley Rohrer, and Michelle
(44:32):
Olander, who is also a podcaster andproduces the Plant Based Podcast.
Thank you so much, you can't imaginehow much your support means to me.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as threebucks a month and it will add up.
But if you can afford it, I wouldlove to have you pledge more so you
can have more access to more rewards.
(44:54):
And one of the big perks of beinga patron is that if you have any
questions about an upcoming trip, youcan message me from within Patreon
and I will see it and I will respond.
And also to support Elyse,go to patreon.com/ElysArt.
If you're planning a trip to France, youneed personalized advice, hire me as your
(45:17):
itinerary consultant, of course, choosethe Bonjour service or the VIP service,
and when you're ready to start, go tojoinusinfrance.com/boutique and follow
the instructions, it's pretty simple.
And if you don't need a one on oneconsultation, you can still make your
trip to Paris better by taking mealong with you using my self-guided
(45:41):
GPS tours on the VoiceMap app.
These tours lead you through thevery best of Paris, I update them
as soon as necessary and I'll beheading back to Paris to write one
more, maybe I'll do two more, we'llsee, if I'm feeling really, really
motivated, because it's a lot of work.
Somebody left this review of my Montmartretour today: ' This tour was excellent.
(46:04):
Everything worked flawlessly withdirections, very informative, it was
like having your own personal guidewalking with you.' That's what I aim for.
I aim for very good, precise direction.
So you're not lost.
And also, I know my listeners, okay?
I've been talking to you for 11 years now.
(46:25):
So I know what the people who listento this podcast want to hear about.
And I make sure to include thosethings in the tours, because most
people would write a tour with justtidbits that get shared constantly and
they're not that interesting, really.
So I think I know my country, andI know my listeners and I think
(46:46):
I strive for very good tours.
All right, let's talk aboutsomething strange happening in
France with population shifts.
Toulouse is on track to becomethe third largest city in
France, possibly overtaking Lyon.
This is big news.
And as someone born and raised inToulouse, I find it fascinating
(47:09):
how my hometown keeps growing.
And when I was growing up, wewere neck and neck with Bordeaux
as population size was concerned.
Bordeaux was left in thedust a long time ago.
I'll tell you in a moment.
As of 2022, Toulouse had about511,000 residents, while Lyon
was just ahead with 520,000.
(47:30):
But here's the key, Toulouseis growing much faster.
Over the last few years, it has gainedmore residents than Lyon, thanks to
strong job opportunities, especially inthe aerospace industry and an overall
great quality of life in Toulouse.
The Greater Toulouse metropolitan areais now home to 1.8 million people.
(47:52):
And it is the fastest growing urban areain France with over 500,000 residents.
Meanwhile, Lyon's metroarea has 1.43 million.
And if this trend continues, it won'tbe long before Toulouse officially
takes that number three spot.
Living near Toulouse today,I see the changes firsthand.
(48:14):
More housing, more infrastructureprojects, more people
choosing to settle here.
And honestly, I get it.
Toulouse has so much to offer.
And here's another reason to visit.
Lonely Planet just named Toulousethe number one city to visit in 2025.
They highlight its vibrantculture, historic charm,
and booming culinary scene.
(48:37):
With major events plannedfor the next year, it's clear
Toulouse is having a moment.
And by the way, I have four seats leftfor the Bootcamp 2025, where you'll
spend 10 days in Toulouse with me.
So that's starting on May 10th,the morning of May 10th, and
ending the evening of May 19th.
It's not too late for you tojoin us in France for real.
(49:00):
What do you think?
Could Toulouse really surpass Lyon?
Let me know and stay tuned formore updates on life in France.
But since I'm on this topic, let mealso share the population numbers
for the largest cities in France.
Now, I'm not including the wholemetropolitan area here, just the cities
proper, and those numbers are for 2022.
(49:21):
Number one was Paris with 2.2 million.
Marseille with 900,000.
Three is Lyon with 520,000.
Four is Toulouse with 511,000.
Five is Nice with 353,000.
Six is Nantes with 325,000.
(49:43):
Seventh is Montpellier with 307,000.
Number eight is Strasbourg with 291,000.
Bordeaux left in the dustat number nine with 265,000.
And number 10, Lille with 238,000.
Now, of course, France is a mostly ruralcountry as you can see, I mean, the
(50:08):
biggest city, Paris has 2.2 million.
And then way after thatis Marseille with 900,000.
We don't have a super bigmetropolis kind of places.
And we have thousands, andthousands, and thousands of villages.
But it's good to see a thrivingcity, and it's good to live in one.
Although I don't live in Toulouse,technically, from my house to the Toulouse
(50:32):
Metro it's about 20 minutes by car.
And I kind of like it that way, I like,I'm a country girl, what can I tell you?
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan
who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, an episodewith Elyse about the lovely city of
Béziers and why that city is full ofhistory and is making big strides today.
(50:54):
It's one of the ones that are growing.
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
can look around France together.
Au revoir!
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
(51:18):
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode 535, cinq cent trente cinq.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withGina Angelillo about her unforgettable
(00:36):
anniversary adventure in France.
Join us as we explore the charmingstreets of Saint Malo, savor
delicious French cuisine, strollthrough smaller museums, and dive
into the rich history of Normandy.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
(01:00):
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that at myboutique joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And remember, Patreon supportersget the podcast ad-free
and as soon as it is ready.
Click on the link in the shownotes to enjoy this Patreon reward
(01:22):
for as little as $3 per month.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Gina today,
I'll discuss something very strangehappening with population shifts.
I wonder if you know how bigsome of these French cities are.
(01:47):
Bonjour Gina Angelillo andwelcome to join us in France.
Gina (01:52):
Bonjour, happy to be here.
Annie (01:53):
Wonderful to talk to you today.
We are going to talk aboutyour anniversary adventure.
You explored Normandy,Saint-Malo and Paris.
So this was which anniversary for you?
Gina (02:05):
It was our 23rd.
Annie (02:07):
Fun.
Okay.
And have you been to Francea lot or was this new?
Gina (02:11):
So my husband and I both went separately when we graduated college.
So that was a million years ago.
And then I actually went withmy girlfriends when we turned
50 last year in November.
And we had such a great time.
We were in Paris for a week, and so thisyear, in October, I went with my husband.
Annie (02:30):
Fun.
Okay.
So feel free to mentionboth of those trips.
Obviously, you know, it's a different,but you know, if you have good
recommendations for people, I'm surethey'll be happy to hear it, even if
it wasn't on your anniversary trip.
All right.
So I asked you, like I doeverybody, to tell me what they
liked most about their trip.
(02:51):
The first thing you mentioned iswalking the ramparts in Saint-Malo.
Gina (02:54):
We loved Saint-Malo.
I did read 'All the Light We CannotSee', so I was kind of excited
to go there, and it's way morebeautiful than I even expected, and
we just had a great day walking.
It was very sunny and warm, we hadcoffee down at the beach, there were
people taking out kayaks, and we just,you know, took a lot of pictures, and
(03:15):
I just loved how laid back it was.
We didn't really do anything special,but it was just a beautiful day.
Annie (03:20):
Right.
And if the weather cooperates, which isnot always a given in Saint-Malo, but if
the weather is good, that's fantastic.
Yeah, it's a beautiful place.
And it's just full of atmosphere, I guess.
It's one of these cities that it wasrebuilt after, it was mostly rebuilt
after World War II, but they rebuiltit in the same way it had been before.
(03:41):
And I think it looks glorious.
Gina (03:43):
It's beautiful.
It had so much charm.
It exceeded my expectations entirely.
We, you know, the little cafes outsidewhere you can have a coffee or a drink.
After that day walking the ramparts, wesat, I don't remember what it's called,
but it's, there's that strip where it'sall of these restaurants and cafes,
really pretty right by the Ramparts,like on and built against the wall there.
And we went somewhere and I had musselsand French fries and it was beautiful.
(04:08):
It was gorgeous.
We were lucky to have her.
Yeah.
Annie (04:11):
So this was in early October, so it wasn't too busy, I assume.
I mean, I'm sure there werepeople out, but not lots and lots.
Gina (04:19):
No, I thought it was perfect.
There was a lot of people, so you didn'tfeel like, you know, it was a ghost
town or anything, but we had no troublegetting into restaurants and finding a
table at a cafe or anything like that.
It was nice.
Annie (04:31):
Fantastic.
Fantastic.
All right.
So the second thing you mentionedis trolling around beautiful streets
of each city, finding charmingspots, ducking into churches.
So you enjoy visiting churches as well?
Gina (04:43):
Yes, we went into almost every church we passed, you know, just
to pop in and just take a look.
You know, it's just, we don'thave that kind of majesty in
the US, so it was special.
Just kind of walking around,light a candle, you know, take
some pictures and back out.
Annie (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they're free in France, so you don't need a
ticket or you don't need anything.
You can just, if it's open, whichis sometimes it's not, but if
it's open, you can enjoy lookingaround the church and doing some
contemplation if you're so inclined.
Fantastic.
Gina (05:17):
And sometimes it was really funny.
We were walking in the Latin Quarter andwe turned this corner, it was the day
that it was like teeming rain, you know,and I'm standing there and I look and
I was like, that's the church from thatmovie, Midnight in Paris, and I could
recognize the stairs and everything.
It was like so exciting.
And they were having a little likeevent inside with music that night.
Annie (05:37):
So that church is called Saint Étienne du Mont, and it's right by the
Pantheon for people who want to do this.
And it is totally the steps, it's on theside of the church, those are the steps
that if you watch Midnight in Paris, hewent to wait for the taxi every night.
It's epic.
Epic.
Gina (05:55):
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
And it was it looks just likefrom the movie, obviously it
does, but it was kind of fun.
We turned the cornerand I was like: Stop!!
Annie (06:05):
That's great.
That's great.
You enjoy French food, it sounds like,because that's the third thing you listed.
And eating fabulous foods in gorgeoussettings like mussels I had in
Saint-Malo or the oysters in Honfleur.
Gina (06:19):
Yes, I'm Italian.
My parents are from Italy andwe grew up eating everything.
So, we love food and definitelysampling French cuisine is top of
the list and it did not disappoint.
Honfleur is just such a beautifulcity and sitting there by the water,
again, we had amazing weather everysingle day, except that one day
in Paris, which was unbelievable.
(06:39):
It teemed the entire day, butother than that, it was beautiful.
And just sitting in Honfleur inthe marina and having oysters,
you know, we just felt so lucky.
It was wonderful.
Annie (06:50):
Right.
Most of these cities, really, allyou have to do is just go to the city
center, go to the historical city center,or the waterfront in the case of a
place like Honfleur that has a beach.
And typically, you will findall sorts of wonderful things.
Did, I assume you droveyourselves to these locations?
Gina (07:11):
Yes, we rented a car.
We landed in Paris super early, it waslike 6am when we landed, and so we rented
a car from the airport and drove rightto, I'm going to say this wrong... Rouen?
Annie (07:24):
Rouen.
Rouen.
Gina (07:27):
Our lovely tour guide when we went to the D-Day beaches taught us how to say
it correctly, but it's so hard to say.
Annie (07:33):
Yeah, it's difficult because you have Ou-en, Ou-en, Rouen, and
you have the French r as well.
So that one, you know, I don'tfault you for not being able to
say it, it's really very specific.
Gina (07:47):
That was the hardest.
Yeah.
And it's very different from Italian.
I speak Italian.
It doesn't help me at allwith the French, so, anyway.
Yes, we drove first to Rouen andwe were there for the entire day.
We had a full day becausewe got there so early.
Loved it!
And then we drove to Honfleur andBayeux, Mont Saint Michel, Saint-Malo.
Annie (08:10):
In Rouen, did you have a thing planned or did you just show
up and started looking around?
Gina (08:17):
We just showed up and started looking around because I didn't
know how we were going to feel,you know, whether we'd be really
tired or I didn't really know whatto expect to be perfectly honest.
Our first day I would try tokeep it like kind of light.
I loved it there.
We got there, like I said, so early in ourhotel room was ready, so that was great.
We got rid of the car and droppedoff our stuff, freshened up a
(08:37):
little bit and had a full day.
We started to get a little tiredin the afternoon and we were just
like walking around and havingcoffee and taking it all in.
The shopping is, the stores are, Ithink it's the best shopping anywhere.
Yeah.
I feel like they took all of the cuteshops from Marais and Saint Germain and
(08:57):
all of the goods department stores andcondensed it into this like small area.
I was disappointed that I didn'ttake my girlfriends there.
It was our first day, so I wasn't goingto, I didn't want to go shopping and then
have to carry stuff around all the wholetrip, you know, so I didn't buy anything.
This is very disappointing, but westarted to get tired in the afternoon,
(09:19):
so we took that train ride that goesaround, you know, it's very touristy.
Annie (09:23):
Right.
The little train.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gina (09:25):
Yeah, and you listen to like an audio, but we loved it.
It gave us like a lot of history.
It told us about the museumsthere, which are all free.
So when we finished the trainride, we went over to the Beau
Arts Museum, which we loved.
We really like the smaller museums,they're just a lot more manageable.
Anyway, so we went to a beautifuldinner there that night.
(09:45):
That was just unbelievable.
And yeah, we just loved it.
All the cathedrals andthe history was great.
Annie (09:53):
So I want to mention that all, you listed all the hotels where you stayed,
you mentioned that you prefer hotels thanAirbnbs, and I want you to tell me why.
But so you've listed all the hotelswhere you stayed and also several
restaurants where you ate, soI'll put that in the show notes.
But do tell me why do youprefer hotels versus Airbnbs?
(10:13):
Because lots of people wonderwhich one should I book?
Gina (10:17):
Well, you know, definitely I prefer hotels for the ability to
drop off your bags, because a lot oftimes you get to somewhere and you
can't check in until four o'clock.
You know, I don't want to be stuckwith my suitcases and I felt
like France was very, very safe.
I mean, Italy is very safe too, but Iwouldn't really encourage anyone to leave
their suitcases in your car in Italyfor any prolonged period of time, that's
(10:43):
you're asking for trouble if you do that.
So, I prefer staying at hotels whereI could just drop off my stuff, drop
off the car, and I like also havinga front desk that can recommend,
you know places to go for dinneror, excursions that kind of thing.
I just prefer it.
Annie (10:59):
Yeah, it simplifies your life greatly, honestly, because some
Airbnbs are very good about givingyou suggestions about meeting you
earlier, about things like that.
But some are just not, like,honestly, and there's no way to tell
because the reviews on Airbnb, Idon't know, I just don't trust them.
(11:21):
Even places where I've gone to stay,it seems like people don't mention
half of the stuff that they should,like, why didn't anybody say that the
elevator it's teeny tiny, you can onlygo in with one suitcase at a time.
Like, why didn't anybody mention that?
Because it's a big deal.
Like, you know!
And so I think people tryto be nice to the host.
(11:41):
Like if the host was nice to them,then they want to reciprocate.
They want to be nice.
They just don't mentionthings that they should.
Gina (11:49):
I agree.
And I, you know, especially a triplike this, where we kind of, we stayed
at a number of different hotels.
I don't want to bebothered with an Airbnb.
Like, I just want to check in,drop off my stuff, move along, you
know, like I don't need a kitchen.
I don't need anything like that.
Yeah, it was good.
Annie (12:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
On a short trip it's great.
Airbnb has its good points, you know,if you're traveling with family or
with a big group of people, perhapsyou'll have better luck with Airbnb.
But yeah, I hear you.
Gina (12:21):
I love it when somebody makes me a cup of coffee in the
morning too, when I'm on vacation.
Annie (12:26):
Yeah, exactly.
It's very true that it gives you morefreedom and more time to enjoy what you
came here for rather than go shopping,although going shopping for groceries
can be interesting in France as well.
Gina (12:40):
Yeah, we did enjoy the market.
Annie (12:41):
So, you mentioned in your fourth thing is you enjoy cafe culture.
Like you just mentioned thecoffee, the outside seating,
especially in Saint-Malo in Paris.
These are things you can't get in the US.
That's what I love, I mean, some placesin the US, I'm sure you can get these
things, but not everywhere, right?
Where's home for you?
Gina (12:59):
New York, and we're right outside of the city, so we go into the city all the
time, and we were just there last weekend.
We went to the Met, to see anexhibit there, and afterwards,
you know, we were still in amindset of, you know, cafe culture.
Let's stop and have a coffee,and like a little cafe, and you
really can't do that in New York.
You can't sit, I listened to yourpodcast, let me just say, and I learned
(13:22):
a lot about café culture from thatepisode, and I listened to it a few
times, because I had several tripsplanned to France, one that got cancelled
in 2020, but I had prepared for it.
But in any case, you can't in NewYork just sit at like a cafe with
service and just order a coffee,you like, you can't do that.
You have to order a meal.
(13:42):
They don't let you just havean espresso, like you have to
go to a coffee shop for that.
And then you get it like in a papercup and there's no outside seating
or anything like it's to go, youknow, so we just loved that whole
cafe culture of just being able, likethe day that it was teeming rain in
Paris, we did a wine and cheese lunch.
It was like a class.
(14:03):
And that was really fun.
And then afterwards we werewalking and we do everything
outside, even in the pouring rain.
But, like, it eventually started rainingso hard, we just pulled over and just
had a coffee someplace so pretty.
I don't know where we were.
It was in Marais somewhere.
And I just love that just beingable to pull over, have a glass
of wine or have a coffee, andthen get up and leave, you know.
(14:26):
And I learned from you that ifthe table isn't set, you can
sit and just have a coffee.
If it's set, then, youknow, that's for a meal.
Yeah.
I wish we had that in New York.
I really do.
Annie (14:39):
So, the episode you mentioned, Cafe Culture, is episode 228 of the podcast.
It's an oldie, but goodie becausethings don't change you know, I
mean, it's still the same thing.
And at the Met, I was there, recently aswell, and at the Met, there is a little
cafe at the very top, but it's like,there's hardly anywhere to sit, it's lots
of people, and everything is 20 bucks.
Gina (15:02):
And the coffee wasn't good.
I couldn't really drink it.
It wasn't good.
Annie (15:07):
I didn't order coffee there.
What did I order?
I don't remember what Igot, but I got something.
Gina (15:12):
I got a coffee and a chocolate croissant.
I was trying to, like, recreate it.
I was like, this isn't working.
Annie (15:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, but I hear you.
It's not the same cafe culture.
The other thing you saidis you can pull over.
You weren't in a car.
Were you in Paris?
Gina (15:26):
No, No,
Annie (15:27):
Oh, I
Gina (15:27):
meant on foot.
Annie (15:28):
On foot.
Okay.
So yeah, you just stop what you'redoing and go into, duck into a cafe and
warm up and enjoy that for a moment.
Yeah.
Gina (15:37):
Right, just, you know, take a little lube off and then walk.
Annie (15:40):
Yeah.
And when you do that, you should,that's also the time, you should use
the bathroom, and wash your handsand also fill your water bottle.
This is a thing I have about people whowalk around with a giant water bottle
because they want enough for the wholeday, you really don't need to do that.
You can walk with some, I mean, you shouldhave some water with you just in case you,
I don't know if you choke on a pretzelor something, but you can just have a
(16:03):
little bottle and then refill it when yougo to a cafe, you know, that's the way.
Gina (16:07):
That's what I did.
I just had a disposable water bottle thatI would carry in the morning and then,
you know, just like refill it and thenif I lose it along the way, whatever...
Annie (16:16):
It's fine.
Yeah, it's fine.
You mentioned visiting smallermuseums like the ones in Honfleur.
So do tell about that one.
I haven't been to that one,so I want to hear about it.
Gina (16:27):
I don't even remember what they were called, but there was this
really old building right off themarina there in the main part of town.
And it was dedicated to their sea history.
And you know, everything wasin French, so I couldn't really
read it or, but it was beautiful.
And just walking around this old,very old, original, it had been
(16:49):
a church and they renovated it tobe this little museum, just cute.
That's what we like to do.
And then it was like a buy one.
So we ended up going into another littlemini museum there, which was like the
history of life in Honfleur at that time.
And they, you know, justshowed like a real house.
There was a prison.
(17:09):
Yeah, it was just, it's nice tojust get that little glimpse.
It was all like, you know, periodpieces and stuff like that inside.
Annie (17:16):
That's a really good point because, there are a lot of places where you
can't, I mean, it's not like you canknock on people's house door and ask if
you can see the inside of their house.
But if you, if there's a public museumor something that you can go into,
sometimes they are decorated reallywell, a period kind of decoration
decor that, and of course nowadayspeople don't live like that, but
(17:40):
it's still really interesting to see.
And most of these little museums,they don't take very long and
they don't cost very much.
So why not?
Pop in, see, you might findsomething extraordinary.
Gina (17:51):
It was fun.
Annie (17:51):
Yeah.
You went to the Tapestry Museum in Bayeux?
Gina (17:55):
Yes, and I had low expectations of that too.
You know, I don't know tapestries,but and I've been on your podcast
Facebook group for a very long time.
So, I knew to go there and Iknew people talked about it.
But again, I didn't reallyknow what to expect.
It was great.
And I love how the museum doesit with the audio, explaining
each frame as you go along.
(18:16):
It was very impressive.
We really, really liked that.
My husband's really into history, andso he sort of filled in some of the
gaps that I, that I missed, and itbecame like an ongoing story, like the
Normans and the British and whatever,you know, the whole history there.
Kind of like throughout ourwhole trip, you know, kind of
carried through the whole trip.
And so, yeah, I would highly recommendanyone who visits Bayeux to see that.
(18:41):
I got a lot out of it.
It was great.
Annie (18:43):
Yes, and if you go with children, I think it's the BBC that
has a really good series, or, not justfor children, for anybody, but they
have a series that explains the Bayeuxtapestry to children, especially.
And so they explain a little bit of theNorman Conquest, which, you know, it
was a major step in Britain's history.
(19:04):
So, a really interesting thingto see with, and it, I mean,
it really looks fabulous.
I'm not even into tapestry, orneedlepoint, or anything like
that, but dang, it's beautiful.
Like, I respect the people who made this.
Gina (19:20):
It's so old too and the way it survived all the way
it was handled and everything.
It's very impressive.
It's really a work of art, yeah.
Annie (19:29):
Yeah, and then you also did a half day tour through Overlord tours.
They get recommended all the time.
What was it like?
Gina (19:36):
It was great.
So it was a van and we met, we stayed,you know, in Bayeux right in town.
We had a good location there.
And so it was just like around the corner,8:30 in the morning was the pickup.
And it turned out we were the only peoplethat booked a half day tour that day.
So we had a private tour witha driver, which, you know,
couldn't have been better.
And our driver was very,very well informed.
(19:58):
He was a real historybuff and knew everything.
You know, my husband is a bighistory buff and certainly World
War II, and I have a lot of friendswho are really into that too.
But there's something to besaid for going on a tour.
You know, he gives these inside storiesthat you don't know from the books.
And just little things that werereally interesting and cool.
(20:18):
Like, at one point, he took us to thespot where it was like the side of, it
looked like maybe a barn or, you know,just like a building, and there was a
huge photograph in black and white ofwhat that area looked like during World
War II when the US tanks were coming by,and there were like tanks in the picture.
And like, he parked the car exactlylike where the tank was, and so
(20:41):
you could imagine yourself in thescene, and it looked exactly like,
you know, how it did back then.
Annie (20:47):
Wow.
Gina (20:48):
So just those little things and like little inside stories about some of
the, you know, the rangers from the US.
It really adds a lot.
Annie (20:55):
It makes it unforgettable really, when you get a good tour guide
that puts everything into context.
And context is everything like, you know,you can tell somebody facts all day long,
but if they don't understand the context,it's not going to mean much to them.
Whereas if they get some context,especially some physical context
(21:17):
like this, it's really very cool.
Gina (21:20):
And our driver had a real passion for the subject and he was from the area.
And so, you know, every time you couldtell that every time he told the story,
he was telling the story of his homeland.
It was an emotional experience to, youknow, hear these stories and everything.
You're standing there on the beachand he's talking about what happened
and, you know, it's really a lot.
(21:41):
It's beautiful.
And then he took us to the Americancemetery too, which was very,
very beautiful and very moving.
Annie (21:48):
That's wonderful.
And a half a day is not very long, youknow, sometimes, because they also do
day long tours, they do two day tours.
For me, that would be overload,you know, like too much of a good
thing, but a half a day tour...
Gina (22:03):
Yeah, I feel like we saw a lot and I guess the people,
the full day tour is very long.
It's 8:30 to 6:30.
I struggled with that.
I thought we were going to dothe full day tour, but I assumed
we would be done at like 4.
You know 6:30, I was like, wow,that's really the entire day, I don't
know if I could do all that WWII.
And my husband was like... Idon't... he saw the list of what
(22:26):
we were going to see for the halfday and he felt that was enough.
And he is a real history buff too.
And he doesn't feelshortchanged in any way.
But I'm sure a full daywould have been really great.
Annie (22:37):
Yeah.
Gina (22:37):
But the half day was enough.
Annie (22:38):
Yep.
Yep.
You have to find what suitsyou and both are just fine.
One of the good things about the goodtour companies like this one is that they
hire very good guides because they aresuccessful and they can afford to pay.
They don't have to shortchangeJohnny come lately guides.
They can have really serious guideswho know the history and all that.
(23:01):
Then back to Paris, you enjoyedyour visit to the Conciergerie, and
this is one that most people skip.
So should they not skip?
Gina (23:09):
I don't think they should skip it.
I liked it.
And they have like tablets.
I kind of found that a little annoying.
At first I thought it was great,and then I was like, Oh, I want
to carry this around all the time.
But you can point it at thesekiosks and then hold it up and
it'll show you what the Conciergerielooked like back in the day.
So that was kind of cool, butlike I said, it got a little
(23:31):
bit, like, okay, that's fine.
Annie (23:33):
Yeah.
After a while, you're done with that one.
Gina (23:35):
My husband loves the history, and when you're with somebody that
really likes whatever it is thatthey like right, it rubs off on you.
So then I started getting like reallyinto it and everything it was fun.
Yeah, we had a goodtime going through that.
That was really nice.
And you know, I'm a real plannerand if I showed you my itinerary,
you would be like... I'm, you know!
(23:56):
We had this wine lunch planned andso we stayed in the Latin Quarter,
so I had planned it perfectly that wewere going to pass the Conciergerie
on our way to the wine tour.
So it was very efficientgoing through everything.
So it was definitely worth stoppingcause we had to walk through anyway.
Annie (24:12):
Sure.
Yeah.
And it takes about, I guess ifyou're a history buff and you really
want to read everything, look ateverything, they have some videos and
things like that, that you can watch.
It would take a couple of hours,but you can really get a good feel
for it in about an hour, I think.
And there's a nice area dedicated to MarieAntoinette as well, that people love.
(24:36):
And so, yeah, I think it's a veryworthwhile museum to go into.
Gina (24:41):
Yes.
I think it definitely...it definitely was.
Annie (24:45):
You went to the Rodin Museum, which is also a favorite for a lot of people.
Can you tell us about that?
Gina (24:52):
It's beautiful.
The grounds are beautiful.
His sculptures are reallymoving and interesting.
What was it?
The gates of hell.
That is very impressive to lookat and then all like them, you
know, when they take it all apart.
Oh, you know what I loved?
The statue of the men that were...
Annie (25:10):
The burglers of Calais.
Gina (25:12):
Yes, yes.
And then afterwards, Iwas so moved by that.
I had read about them and the wholehistory of what happened there
and it was, you know, kind of apolitical time when I was there.
It was October, before our ownelections and it was just sort of
like kind of moving to see them andthat history, and really loved that.
Yeah, and that's really a lovely museumto walk through like everybody says I'm
(25:34):
not the first person to say it but it'sso manageable and... we walked there
right from seeing Napoleon's tomb whichI also recommend and that was nice.
So it was great little area.
Annie (25:47):
Yeah.
So, the Les Invalides, Napoleon's tombis not very far from the Rodin Museum.
So it's good to, youknow, do those together.
And you know, if you are from a largecity like you are from New York City,
Rodin was a very prolific sculptor.
He made castings and his workswere reproduced, they were made
(26:09):
not just once, but many times.
And so it's possible that you are froma city that already has a version of the
Gates of Hell or the Burglers of Calais,and in that case, perhaps you don't want
to prioritize the Rodin Museum, but seeingit in person is really quite a different
experience than looking at photos.
(26:32):
And for my patrons, I did a wholelong, it was several years ago,
but I did a whole thing about theBurglers of Calais and the history.
If you're a new patron you have tolook through the older stuff, there's
some oldies but goodies down there.
At any rate, you also went to thePantheon and the Carnavalet Museum.
So tell us about those.
Gina (26:52):
The Pantheon, we went down into the crypts and that was, you
know, I think it was like Voltaire,he's buried there or was that in?
Annie (26:59):
No, he's there.
Gina (27:00):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And who else?
Annie (27:03):
Oh,
Gina (27:04):
Rousseau?
Yeah.
Annie (27:06):
Recent ones.
Gina (27:07):
Right.
I mean, but like some philosophers.
Annie (27:10):
Oh, philosophers.
Gina (27:11):
They were buried right near each other.
So that was, kind of reminded meof like England where you have
Mary, Queen of Scots and QueenElizabeth buried next to each other.
It was sort of like that inthe crypts of the Pantheon.
So I enjoyed that and yeah, therewas Marie Curie and that was kind
of interesting to walk throughand see all the people there.
Annie (27:29):
Louis Braille is one that I admire greatly, that is also in the Pantheon.
Gina (27:34):
And I loved the Pantheon at night.
We stayed in the Latin Quarter, so wehad passed it a few times at night.
At night, all of these young peoplesit out on the steps and there's
some tables on the side or like...even like traffic things, whatever.
And they sit on them andeveryone's just like hanging
around and it was really nice.
It was lit up at night, so beautiful.
Annie (27:53):
So it's a university area, and it's also where the library Saint Geneviève
is, and that's a very popular library.
It probably closes at seven.
But it's an area where young people meet,because it's, I mean, you can't miss it.
If you tell your friends, let's meet atPantheon, you know, that's probably why
he was waiting for the taxi there, becausethere's many people coming through.
Gina (28:17):
Yeah, and it's all lit up.
It's all white.
It's beautiful.
It's all lit up at night and theyhave the beautiful French flag lit
up flying, and we had great weather.
So it was just beautiful to walk through.
Annie (28:28):
I'm interested in the fact that you put Saint-Malo much higher, you
ranked it much higher than the MontSaint Michel, which is what comes next.
Can you tell us your impressionsof both and why you liked
one over the other better?
Gina (28:42):
Mont Saint Michel was more crowded, it was like exercise, I
mean, it was like a mile and a halfwalk just to get there, which was,
you know, like, what is it called?
Like, it was like our journey.
Annie (28:53):
It's a hike up there, yes.
Gina (28:54):
There's buses that'll take you, and we're walkers, so it was fine, but,
you know, so we walked all the way there.
There are buses
Annie (29:00):
that will take you?
Gina (29:01):
Yeah.
Like, from the parking lot, you can waitin line for a bus and it'll take you.
Annie (29:05):
Right, but that's just the bus that takes you to the bottom of the hill.
Gina (29:08):
Right, right, right.
Annie (29:09):
Then you have to hoof it up.
Gina (29:10):
It's like a mile at least to Mont St. Michel.
We didn't take the bus.
So we were like already, you know,exercised before we got there.
And then you have to walk all theway up, which, you know, it was fun,
it was an adventure and everything.
But, you know, I feel like itwas a little bit, I don't want
to say that it was touristy.
Annie (29:28):
But it is.
Gina (29:29):
But it's not that, because Saint-Malo is touristy too, you know,
but it's just like a different kind oftouristy, like it's not, for me it wasn't
the kind of place that I would spend thatmuch time, like we walked all the way to
the top, you know, went into the cryptsand stuff there, took a bunch of pictures.
We had some lunch on the way backdown, my husband bought a gargoyle
thing, you know, and then we left.
Annie (29:51):
Yeah.
Gina (29:52):
There wasn't, you know, it wasn't the kind of place I was going to like
luxury because everything is like ata 45 degree angle, so... it's not like
You can just walk around and like hangout, you know, like you just slide down.
Annie (30:05):
Did you stay the night, or what did you do?
Gina (30:08):
No, no, we just drove.
So we left Bayeux early and we droveto Mont Saint Michel in the morning.
We got there like by 9, I guess we walkedover and got in around 10, and then
just we left by like 2 or 3 and thendrove to Saint-Malo because it's only
50 minutes to Saint-Malo from there.
Annie (30:28):
Yeah, it's not very far, yeah.
Gina (30:30):
No, it was like the perfect stop in between Bayeux and Saint-Malo.
If you were doing my trip, I wouldn'tmiss it because it's right on the way.
You should definitely stop there.
I wouldn't... Yeah, and so atSaint-Malo, I guess you could drive in
town, but we didn't feel comfortablewith that, so we parked in the public
parking right outside of the ramparts.
(30:51):
Our hotel was close, youknow, from where we parked.
So we had our suitcases, and we kind ofwalked through, like, you know how there's
like that little gate you get through,like where the harbor is, there's the
ramparts and it's like a gate, right?
Like, I don't know whatelse you would call it.
You walk through and as soon aswe walked through and we were in
(31:11):
like the old section, I just feltlike dropping my bags and being
like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing.
Look at this.
There are cobblestone streetsare like, cobblestones are
huge, you know, really hard.
Don't wear high heels.
That's for sure.
And it just was so charming and everybodywas outside and it was like a fairy land.
(31:32):
I loved it.
Annie (31:34):
That's fantastic.
That's great.
Gina (31:35):
There was really good shopping in, if you're interested in shopping, which I
am, but for the ladies, whatever, there'sreally good shopping in Saint-Malo, too.
It's not Rouen, but like Bayeux,I would say... is not like
your shopping destination.
Annie (31:52):
No... even I can tell.
Gina (31:53):
Yeah, they have, like, cute things in Bayeux, like take home
souvenirs and stuff like that, butnot, like if you wanted to go fashion
shopping or anything like that.
But, like, if you askme, Saint-Malo has it all.
Annie (32:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, Saint-Malo, Saint-Malo isa place with plenty of money.
It's old money.
It's people who, I have a dear friendwho's from there, her mother lived
there and she grew up there anddefinitely old money in that area.
Gina (32:21):
It felt really upscale.
And so did Rouen.
It felt very upscale.
Like, if you're from New York,you know, think of Saint-Malo
like you think of the Hamptons.
It's upscale.
Annie (32:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that sort of thing.
That's great that you love shoppingbecause I don't pay attention to
shopping, but I could have told youthat Bayeux was not a place to go
shopping because it's like older stores.
It's not, yeah, they probably havea nice kind of mall outside of
the city, but their city center isnot geared towards people who like
(32:52):
boutiques and things like that.
Gina (32:54):
Yeah, no, it's just touristy things that they had.
I mean, I liked it andeverything, I just...
Annie (33:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You enjoyed visitingsome open air markets.
Did you plan that or didyou just happen upon them?
Gina (33:07):
I happened upon it in, I guess it was probably Bayeux.
Yeah.
In Bayeux, I happened upon it.
It was still going on when wegot home from the Overlord tour.
So we were ready for lunch.
So we walked through and I ended upbuying, I shouldn't say this because
will I get in trouble with the TSA, but Ibought dried smoked sausage to bring home.
(33:31):
You know, we're Italians who alwayswant to try that, and the lady didn't
speak any English, so I didn't evenknow what I was buying, and I was
like, you know, we eat everything.
Give me one of each.
We'll just try it.
And they were, they were delicious.
I brought them to my parents house and Ishared with my sister and my mom and dad.
Annie (33:49):
And they didn't confiscate them at the border?
Um... you know, they didn't ask.
I didn't tell.
I had it in my suitcase.
Uh huh.
Uh huh.
Yeah, that's all right.
Gina (33:59):
I was ready to lose it if I needed to.
Annie (34:01):
Sure, sure.
Yeah, good for you.
Very good.
You did a wine and cheesetasting lunch in Paris.
You mentioned it earlier.
Do you remember the name of the company?
Gina (34:10):
Yeah, I have it here.
Let me see.
Ô Chateau.
Annie (34:14):
Ô Chateau.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
I've been there several times.
It's excellent.
I'll put a link in the show notes.
An excellent place.
Gina (34:22):
Yeah, it was fun.
It was a good experience.
We met some nice people,which was kind of fun.
Our leader, whatever, theteacher was a lot of fun.
That was nice.
We were soaking wet.
That was the day of the teeming rain.
So it was nice to just be someplacewarm and nice drinking some wine.
Yeah.
So that was really good.
I would say that, you know,definitely have something to eat
(34:46):
before you go because it, it wasn'tlike generous with the wine issues.
We even ordered the charcuterie to gowith, you know, it's like two and a half
hours with a little cheese and breadand so if you're expecting to be full
after this, you're not going to be.
Annie (35:00):
Yes.
Gina (35:00):
You know, maybe just have brunch that morning.
Annie (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, the servings of wine are generous, so you
might get drunk a little bit.
Unless you drink a lot, all the time,then you, it's going to be a lot.
But I mean, it's pleasant,and you're just walking, so...
Gina (35:17):
Oh, it's, I would recommend it, just don't go on an empty stomach.
Annie (35:20):
Right, right.
And if you type in your browser: joinusinfrance.com/wine1 the number one, (35:21):
undefined
it'll take you right to Ô Chateau becauseI use that link all the time, I've gone
many times, so I made myself a link.
Gina (35:35):
And I think it's a wine bar.
I think you could just go there, youdon't have to take the class, you
could just go and sample wine there.
There is a very pretty bar there.
Annie (35:43):
Yeah.
Upstairs is a nice wine bar as well, butI mean, anywhere in Paris, you can go
up to a bar and order a glass of wine.
You don't need to go to a winebar to enjoy some wine in Paris.
You can just go to any cafe orbar and ask for a bottle of wine,
or a glass of wine, or whatever.
Wonderful.
You enjoyed the LuxembourgGarden and a boat trip down
(36:05):
the Seine and the catacombs.
We don't have that much time.
So which one did you want to talk about?
Gina (36:09):
You know, they're all, I feel like those go without saying, right?
They're nothing really unique.
One thing, if you wanted to talkabout something unique that I did
with my girlfriends, we did a MakeYour Own Perfume class at Candora.
And that was really fun.
We learned a lot about thehistory of perfume and how it even
started, and how, you know, Parisbecame the epicenter of perfume.
(36:33):
And then we got to make our ownperfume, which was a lot of fun.
It was really a good time.
So if you're, and there were menin taking this class too, so, you
know, good for all ages, but peopleare always looking for things to do
with their teenagers or whatever.
This is fun.
Annie (36:48):
Good.
Gina (36:48):
I would definitely recommend it.
Annie (36:50):
Yeah, that sounds excellent.
What else did you do that wasexciting with your girlfriends?
Besides shopping, I'm sureyou did plenty of shopping.
Gina (36:58):
We did.
We did do shopping and we took awine tour, and we did it through
a company called Wine Tours Paris.
We took it to Burgundy, which was,this was really great, because our
guide whose name was Louis, he pickedus up in Paris with a van and we left
(37:18):
really early, like 7:30 in the morning.
And I think we weredrinking wine by 10:30.
I like, it wasn't that far,like kind of slept in the van.
And then he took us to three differentwine chateaus, and he was very
knowledgeable and that came witha lunch, lunch was included with
that, and the lunch was generous.
It was cheese and charcuterie andeverything, but very generous.
(37:41):
And that was lovely.
We learned so much.
We had such a good time.
He is a phenomenal host.
Knows so much about wine and thenhe drove us back to Paris, we
were back to Paris by like 7:30.
So it was a great guide.
Annie (37:52):
So you're going to have to send me the link to his service
because I don't think you includedit in what you sent me already.
So do send me that and I'll link it inthe show notes, so people who want to do
that, because that, that's a great daytrip from Paris I mean, it's an early
morning, but if you're with friends...
Gina (38:09):
It's a great day trip, especially if someone's like, you know, nervous
about having to catch the train.
He has one tour like the Champagneregion too, but you have to take
the train and he picks you up fromthere, but this one, he drives you
right from town, so that was good.
And another thing I did with mygirlfriends that everybody like kind of
talked about, we did go to Citi Pharma,for the whole skin care experience.
Annie (38:31):
For the Caudalie products, are you Caudalie people,
or are you other products?
Gina (38:36):
I'm everything people.
Annie (38:37):
Okay.
Gina (38:39):
I did buy the Caudalie.
I bought that this time with my husband,but yeah, so that's a lot of fun.
If you kind of like, you know, cosmeticsand skincare and that kind of thing.
I didn't know what to expect.
I always get a little nervousof, you know, looking foolish,
whatever, in a foreign countrywhere you don't speak the language.
But everyone's so friendly and youknow, you just walk in and start walking
(39:01):
around and then these lovely salesladies approach you and they're there
to help and you just tell them whatyou're interested in or what problems
you're trying to solve, and they'vegot all kinds of suggestions for you.
It's just a lot of fun.
I would definitely go.
Annie (39:13):
So how do people find this?
Gina (39:15):
How do they find it?
It is in St. Germain.
Annie (39:18):
So you just search for it, right?
Citi Pharma in Saint Germain.
It's CITI, like C I T I, and there's,I was told that there's a line to get
in, so we got there like really earlyso you'd avoid the line, but I was there
with my husband in October and with mygirlfriend in November, and I didn't
experience any trouble with lines.
(39:38):
Yeah, there is one in Toulouse aswell, most cities probably have a
Citi Pharma, it's on 26 Rue du Four,and it closes today at 9 pm, but
right now is a very busy time to go.
It's big enough that Google tellsyou how many people are there.
It's crazy, the things theyknow, but yeah, go ahead.
Gina (40:01):
Well, I just want to say that the prices are cheaper at Citi Pharma.
My daughter really wanted that Nax... Nux?
Is that how you say it?
The lip oil, the honey lip oil.
And so I figured I would, it's likea thing that teenage girls here like.
So I figured, let me, youknow, just buy it for her.
So I bought it for her at Citi Pharma.
And then I sort of noticed it atother pharmacies and at the airport.
(40:23):
And it was significantly cheaper atCiti Pharma than it was elsewhere.
So I do think you get good prices there.
Annie (40:29):
It's a popular place.
Lots of ladies on the Join us inFrance Facebook group mention it.
It's a big one.
So that's great.
All right.
Gina, so wonderful to talk to you,really, I think a lot of people
are going to want to go on thistrip and it's great that you did.
You kept it... like you wentto Paris and to Normandy.
(40:50):
The end.
You didn't try to do allof France in two weeks.
How long was this trip for you?
Was it 10 days or a week?
Gina (40:57):
I think it was like 11 days.
Annie (41:00):
And it's reasonable, you have time to sleep in, you have time to enjoy
your vacation, some of the days anyway,you know, which is really important.
Especially, you know, itwas your anniversary trip.
You got to take it easy a little bit.
Gina (41:12):
We did.
We wanted to have a nice time andnot push ourselves to do too much.
Although I think we did a lot, butwe still had lots of time to sit in
the Contrescarpe and have a coffee.
Annie (41:23):
You sure did, but there's people, who in 11 days, they will
try to see all of France and...
Gina (41:28):
No, that's just not possible.
And you know, I developed, I don'tknow if it's your Facebook group
and your podcast or what, but I'vedeveloped quite a little love of France.
So, I'm pretty sure my husbandand I will be coming back and
see a little bit more of France.
That's good.
Yeah, because there's plentyof Italians who love France and
French people who love Italy.
You know, they're both great countries.
(41:49):
They're very different, butvery great, both of them.
They are very different, but like yousaid, very great, each in their own way.
You know, you can't compare Paris andRome, like it's two different things.
Annie (41:59):
Two different things.
The Italians beat the crap outof us when it comes to art and
how they do their churches.
Oh my goodness.
Those churches in Rome,ah, out of this world.
In France, they're good, butin Rome, it's incredible.
Gina (42:13):
Yeah, I feel like Paris is more urban.
It's more modern.
There's a lot to see, whereas likeRome is like antiquity and romantic.
It's two different things.
Annie (42:25):
Yeah, two different things.
Gina (42:27):
Yeah, I can't compare.
One thing I just want to say,though, is we did have the car,
and we drove it to Saint-Malo.
When we got to Saint-Malo, we gotrid of the car and we took the
high speed train back to Paris.
That was so smart.
Instead of driving all the way back,four and a half hours, and then
having to deal with getting rid ofthe car when we got to Paris, we
just got rid of it in Saint-Malo.
(42:47):
And then we took the train, which was Ithink 25 Euro for the first class seat
and we were there in two and a half hours.
So I would definitely recommend thatif you're going back to Paris, just
lose the car and travel by train.
It's so easy.
I bought my train tickets in advance.
Everything just wasreally, really seamless.
Annie (43:07):
Fantastic.
Yes.
And definitely, if you don't needto drive the car back all the way to
Paris, just arrange to drop it off.
It'll cost you a little bit more probablyto do a pickup somewhere and a drop
off somewhere else, but probably notthat much and saves you a lot of time.
And I mean, taking the highspeed train is fun in of itself.
Like it's a fun experience, I think.
Gina (43:27):
It was, and it was easy, so it's not something to stress about.
Annie (43:31):
Thank you so much, and I wish you many more wonderful trips to France, Gina.
Gina (43:36):
Thank you.
Annie (43:36):
Merci.
Au revoir.
Gina (43:38):
Au revoir.
Annie (43:46):
Again, I want to thank my patrons for giving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
I don't have any new Join Us in Francechampions to thank this week because
(44:06):
I'm recording this early, but let methank the 10 patrons who've contributed
the most over the years, and some ofthem have been patrons since 2017:
Ann Berzin, Paul Trainer Ray Pierantoni,Shannon Kitchen, Delores McNair,
Nancy Colyar, Tracy Gillespie, EricaLuhr, Shelley Rohrer, and Michelle
(44:32):
Olander, who is also a podcaster andproduces the Plant Based Podcast.
Thank you so much, you can't imaginehow much your support means to me.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as threebucks a month and it will add up.
But if you can afford it, I wouldlove to have you pledge more so you
can have more access to more rewards.
(44:54):
And one of the big perks of beinga patron is that if you have any
questions about an upcoming trip, youcan message me from within Patreon
and I will see it and I will respond.
And also to support Elyse,go to patreon.com/ElysArt.
If you're planning a trip to France, youneed personalized advice, hire me as your
(45:17):
itinerary consultant, of course, choosethe Bonjour service or the VIP service,
and when you're ready to start, go tojoinusinfrance.com/boutique and follow
the instructions, it's pretty simple.
And if you don't need a one on oneconsultation, you can still make your
trip to Paris better by taking mealong with you using my self-guided
(45:41):
GPS tours on the VoiceMap app.
These tours lead you through thevery best of Paris, I update them
as soon as necessary and I'll beheading back to Paris to write one
more, maybe I'll do two more, we'llsee, if I'm feeling really, really
motivated, because it's a lot of work.
Somebody left this review of my Montmartretour today: ' This tour was excellent.
(46:04):
Everything worked flawlessly withdirections, very informative, it was
like having your own personal guidewalking with you.' That's what I aim for.
I aim for very good, precise direction.
So you're not lost.
And also, I know my listeners, okay?
I've been talking to you for 11 years now.
(46:25):
So I know what the people who listento this podcast want to hear about.
And I make sure to include thosethings in the tours, because most
people would write a tour with justtidbits that get shared constantly and
they're not that interesting, really.
So I think I know my country, andI know my listeners and I think
(46:46):
I strive for very good tours.
All right, let's talk aboutsomething strange happening in
France with population shifts.
Toulouse is on track to becomethe third largest city in
France, possibly overtaking Lyon.
This is big news.
And as someone born and raised inToulouse, I find it fascinating
(47:09):
how my hometown keeps growing.
And when I was growing up, wewere neck and neck with Bordeaux
as population size was concerned.
Bordeaux was left in thedust a long time ago.
I'll tell you in a moment.
As of 2022, Toulouse had about511,000 residents, while Lyon
was just ahead with 520,000.
(47:30):
But here's the key, Toulouseis growing much faster.
Over the last few years, it has gainedmore residents than Lyon, thanks to
strong job opportunities, especially inthe aerospace industry and an overall
great quality of life in Toulouse.
The Greater Toulouse metropolitan areais now home to 1.8 million people.
(47:52):
And it is the fastest growing urban areain France with over 500,000 residents.
Meanwhile, Lyon's metroarea has 1.43 million.
And if this trend continues, it won'tbe long before Toulouse officially
takes that number three spot.
Living near Toulouse today,I see the changes firsthand.
(48:14):
More housing, more infrastructureprojects, more people
choosing to settle here.
And honestly, I get it.
Toulouse has so much to offer.
And here's another reason to visit.
Lonely Planet just named Toulousethe number one city to visit in 2025.
They highlight its vibrantculture, historic charm,
and booming culinary scene.
(48:37):
With major events plannedfor the next year, it's clear
Toulouse is having a moment.
And by the way, I have four seats leftfor the Bootcamp 2025, where you'll
spend 10 days in Toulouse with me.
So that's starting on May 10th,the morning of May 10th, and
ending the evening of May 19th.
It's not too late for you tojoin us in France for real.
(49:00):
What do you think?
Could Toulouse really surpass Lyon?
Let me know and stay tuned formore updates on life in France.
But since I'm on this topic, let mealso share the population numbers
for the largest cities in France.
Now, I'm not including the wholemetropolitan area here, just the cities
proper, and those numbers are for 2022.
(49:21):
Number one was Paris with 2.2 million.
Marseille with 900,000.
Three is Lyon with 520,000.
Four is Toulouse with 511,000.
Five is Nice with 353,000.
Six is Nantes with 325,000.
(49:43):
Seventh is Montpellier with 307,000.
Number eight is Strasbourg with 291,000.
Bordeaux left in the dustat number nine with 265,000.
And number 10, Lille with 238,000.
Now, of course, France is a mostly ruralcountry as you can see, I mean, the
(50:08):
biggest city, Paris has 2.2 million.
And then way after thatis Marseille with 900,000.
We don't have a super bigmetropolis kind of places.
And we have thousands, andthousands, and thousands of villages.
But it's good to see a thrivingcity, and it's good to live in one.
Although I don't live in Toulouse,technically, from my house to the Toulouse
(50:32):
Metro it's about 20 minutes by car.
And I kind of like it that way, I like,I'm a country girl, what can I tell you?
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan
who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, an episodewith Elyse about the lovely city of
Béziers and why that city is full ofhistory and is making big strides today.
(50:54):
It's one of the ones that are growing.
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
can look around France together.
Au revoir!
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
(51:18):
no derivatives license.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com