January 5, 2025 • 57 mins
Planning a trip to France in 2025? Don’t miss France Logistics for 2025: What Visitors Need to Know. In this episode of Join Us in France, host Annie Sargent and guest Mike August discuss the key changes every traveler should know to navigate France like a pro.
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From updated Paris metro fares to cashless payment systems, Annie and Mike break it all down. Learn how the new flat-rate ticket system makes traveling across Paris and the Île-de-France region simpler. Whether you’re hopping on the metro to the Louvre or taking a train to Versailles, this episode covers it all. They also explain the best mobile apps for transit, tickets, and restaurant reservations, and share tips on using eSIMs to stay connected while in France.
If you’ve ever wondered about the shift away from cash or the best way to book tickets for the newly reopened Notre Dame Cathedral, Annie and Mike have you covered. They even touch on navigating France’s roadways and why bike lanes and reduced speed zones are changing the way we travel.
This episode is packed with practical advice, insider tips, and fun observations. Don’t get caught off guard by the changes in 2025—listen now to prepare for your next French adventure!
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Annie (00:15):
This is Join Us in France, episode 527, cinq cent vingt-sept.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withMike August about exciting changes
(00:36):
which are coming to France in 2025.
You don't want to be caught off guard,so join me and Mike August as we
unpack what visitors need to know,including major updates to Paris metro
travels which started on January 1st.
From cashless systems to smoothercommutes, this episode will ensure you're
(00:58):
prepared to navigate Paris like a pro.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my itineraryconsult service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that on myboutique, joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
(01:22):
And Patreon supporters get new episodesas soon as they are ready and ad-free.
If that sounds good to you, be likethem, follow the link in the show notes.
There will not be a magazinepart of the podcast today
because this recording ran long.
So, Happy New Year everyone!
It's a fresh start, but let's be real,some things never change, like my need for
(01:44):
your support to keep this podcast rolling.
If you love learning aboutFrance and enjoy my ramblings,
why not become a patron?
Join me on Patreon, it's likebuying me a croissant, but with
fewer calories, and heaven knows,I don't need any more calories.
To join this wonderful community ofFrancophiles, go to patreon.com/JoinUs.
(02:06):
That's P A T R E O N,JoinUs, no spaces or dashes.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/ElysArt.
E L Y S A R T.
And thank you very much.
(02:29):
Bonjour, Mike August, and welcomeback to Join Us in France.
Mike (02:33):
Bonjour Annie, thank you for having me.
Annie (02:35):
Oh, lovely to see you, this time we're recording seeing each other.
Last time it was so longago, I didn't use any video.
Nobody did.
Mike (02:42):
Yes, it's been quite a while.
And is right around the time ofanother interesting election.
Annie (02:48):
Oh, well, that's what happens.
That's what happens.
Okay.
So you took a trip to Francerecently and it had been a
while for you as well, right?
Mike (02:56):
My husband and I came to France at the end of September.
I ended up being therefor about two weeks.
The previous trip had been two years priorand then I think four years before that.
So I like to have a frequencyof about every 18 months, so it
had slowed down a little bit.
Annie (03:12):
Right.
Right.
And you didn't just go toParis this time, right?
Mike (03:17):
No, we were in Paris to run a 10 mile race between the
Eiffel Tower and Versailles.
But I also wanted to visit the townthat I lived in when I was a university
student and visiting some friendsnear La Rochelle, so spend a little
bit of time out in the countryside.
Annie (03:32):
Wonderful.
So today we're going to talk aboutthe logistics of planning a trip to
France, what has changed in the lastfew years since you were here, and also
some big changes for the transportationsystem, the public transportation
system in Paris specifically.
So why don't you tell us about some ofthe things that changed overall in France
(03:56):
in the time that you hadn't been here?
Mike (03:58):
So, when I was talking to you about my trip, I mentioned a few things
that were notable and particularly thisstemmed from, you know, in the past few
years, occasionally during the magazinesegment of the podcast, you'll talk
about this little thing, that littlething, and thought it might be useful
to have everything aggregated, becausehaving been a listener for nearly 10
years, if someone's going back andlistening to the back catalog, they're
(04:20):
going to hear things about creditcards that have completely changed.
They're going to hear things about cellphone use that have completely changed.
And what prompted my bringing thisup to you is that the fare system for
Paris Metro and all public transitin Paris is completely changing.
So it might be helpful for someonejoining the podcast for the first time,
(04:42):
or someone who's been listening for along time, but coming back to France
that they might want to pick up on someof these things that have changed, so...
Annie (04:50):
Absolutely, yes.
It's very, very helpful because it doeschange and people do talk to me about
things I said, you know, 10 years ago.
I'm like, Well, that has moved, Imean, okay, if we're talking about a
chateau, the Chateau de Chambord, thehistory has not changed, but if we're
talking about transportation and hotelsand things, yeah, things have changed.
All right, so what's the firstthing that you noticed that
(05:10):
you would like to bring up?
Mike (05:12):
So the first thing is about how you spend your money in France.
You know, obviously, people plantheir trips, they have everything
laid out, but then when they getto France, they're going to have
to pay for a lot of these things.
And I think that the thing that haschanged significantly, certainly
since I was living there eightyears ago, is the balance of how
you're using cash, how you're usingpayment cards, and mobile payments.
(05:36):
And so one of the most significant thingsthat I think has happened in France,
and I think has happened generally sincethe pandemic around the world, is that
tap-to-pay has become much more prevalent.
And when I lived there previously,or was a visitor to France, I was
using our American swipe creditcards, which were uncommon in France
(05:56):
and forced the merchants to haveto print up a little payment slip
that people would have to sign.
It sort of really signaled youas being an outsider, as an
inconvenience for everyone.
And with the advent of chip cards, thathas reduced some of it, but then now
pretty much everywhere I went I couldjust use tap-to-payment whether that
was in a restaurant at a merchant.
(06:17):
Or if I was using even the public toiletsthat you used to have to give a euro for,
I could just tap my phone to pay there.
And so it just madethings so much simpler.
It removed one of those points offriction that you would often have
with a merchant that was uncomfortable.
Annie (06:33):
And you even tap-to-pay if you want to buy a candle in a church.
There's a beggar in Pariswho takes credit cards.
He's a guy that I've seen around for yearsand he has, every year he changes dog,
Mike (06:46):
hmm.
Annie (06:46):
...which I don't like, but he does it because he wants
a young looking dog, right?
It works better.
And now he takes credit cards.
Mike (06:53):
Yep.
Yeah, and so, with this prevalence oftap-to-pay, you can use your credit
card, and most of the credit cardshave the tap implemented within the
chip, so you can just do that, but youcan also do that through your phone.
So whichever way is thebest way to do that.
I'd recommend that if people don'talready have their cards on their
(07:15):
phone, like through Apple Pay orGoogle Pay, Android Pay, that it's
a good safe way to do things becauseit actually generates a brand new
number for the card that's being used.
And so if you're to lose your phone,you still have your cards at the
hotel as a backup, or carry one cardwith you in addition to your mobile
payment, and then have your othercards back at the hotel so that you
(07:37):
have things in two separate places.
And if you lose one, youdon't lose everything.
Annie (07:41):
Exactly, amen, absolutely.
I mean, I use Apple Pay.
And occasionally, I leave my houseor apartment without my phone.
And you can still use Apple Pay justwith your watch if you have it set
up on your Apple Watch correctly.
So, just really, take the few minutes it'sgoing to take to set it up and it works
pretty much the same with Google Pay.
(08:02):
Please do that, it willsave you a lot of trouble.
Mike (08:05):
And I think one of the restrictions with some of the tap-to-pay in
the past was that France had veryspecific restrictions on how much
you could spend in a tap transaction.
And those seem to have been liftedbecause I could pay, yeah, a large payment
at a restaurant, no problem at all.
So there shouldn't beany restrictions there.
And then the other piece of the puzzleis about cash, and I know that that's
(08:27):
something that's often been debated onthe forums on Facebook, or people who've
come and talked on the podcast previously.
And cash is almost not needed at all.
If you wanted to get 40 or 60euros from an ATM after arriving,
either at the airport or atan ATM near your hotel, sure.
(08:48):
But I think that I probably didn'tspend more than a few euros in
cash during the entire time thatI was in France for two weeks.
So that's one thing that hasreally significantly changed.
Annie (08:59):
Absolutely, even if you want to buy things at an open air market, for example,
they take credit cards for the most part.
It's easier for them and it'svery unusual to have a place that
doesn't take credit cards anymore.
So, yeah, be prepared like that.
Mike (09:15):
And then the final thing to bring up is that there have often been
issues over the years, particularlybefore American Cards had payment
chips, is people would have issuesat toll booths on the autoroute, they
would have issues at gas stations.
And I was able to use my UScards fine on the toll roads.
And then at a gas station, I didhave an issue, but I pulled out every
(09:38):
single card that I had, includingmy French bank account because I
still have a French bank account.
I pulled out my Société Généralecard, and it didn't work for tap.
Ultimately, I ended up taking anAmerican card and inserting it into
the chip reader, and then it worked.
So I think that there is an issue withthe tap-to-pay on that specific device.
But ultimately, insertingthe card worked fine.
So I think that the issues that peoplehave had in the past, are largely gone.
Annie (10:02):
It's pretty much gone.
And if you're very worried aboutit, this is one case where you
could have if you have some coins.
You know, a coin, you need a eurocoin to unlock the carts in a lot
of places where you go shopping.
But that's the only coin that you musthave, is a euro coin for shopping.
And you get it back by the way.
But sometimes if you're not sureyour credit card is going to work,
(10:25):
if you have some cash, you canusually insert a 10 or a 20 and
it will give you some change back.
But credit cards work on thesetoll roads almost all of the time.
And now we're going to toll roadswithout payments where I'm not sure
how it's going to work, but as soon asthey implement that a little more, I
(10:46):
will go try one and see what happens.
Because I have one of these littleboxes that just pays by itself.
I'll hide it and see how I have topay at the end, because I'm going
to have to figure out how to pay.
Mike (10:57):
Yep.
So that's what I hadon the payments front.
I think maybe the next thing wecould discuss is mobile phones,
because that ends up being a veryimportant part of people's experience
in navigating their time in France.
You had asked me what some of theupdated tips would be, and about
using French eSIMs or whethervisitors should use their home plans.
(11:18):
So I did a little bit of research.
When I was traveling in France, I'vekept my Bouygues French phone number
from when I lived there previously.
It's an inexpensive thing, soI haven't had the experience
of purchasing an eSIM myself.
But if you are looking at getting aneSIM when traveling to France, what
you do is, in your phone settings,in the cellular settings, you can
(11:39):
go and search for adding a plan.
And you can do this through thefour main operators in France or you
could do it through an internationalprovider that offers service in France.
But if you're largely going to betraveling in France, I'd recommend using
one of the French providers becauseyou'll be able to get the highest speeds.
If you're using an international planyou may be throttled to a slower speed.
Annie (12:02):
Right, right.
So Orange would be a good one.
Free is another one, and wesay frr, frr, frr, and it's not
free, you have to pay for it, butit's the name of the company, F.
R.
E.
E.
You have Bouygues, like youmentioned, and who else, S.
F.
R., S.
F.
R., yeah.
Mike (12:18):
Right.
Right.
So I looked at all of them andalmost all of their eSIM options
for travelers, run from 15 to 50euros for a period of 15 to 30 days,
giving you different amounts of data.
Almost all of them let you roam intoother countries, so if you were pairing
France with a trip to Germany or theUK, for example, you would be able
(12:41):
to continue using your data whiletraveling to those other countries.
There's some variability, like whichplan you choose may give you 5G speeds,
they may give you 4G speeds, which aren'tgoing to be optimal, because some places
don't have quite as good throughputfor the lower, for the old networks.
(13:02):
So there's a little bit of variety there,but basically you can go to the Bouigues,
SFR, Orange or Free websites lookingfor their eSIM packages for tourists.
And for all of them except for Free, youcan just sign up online, they'll give
you a QR code, and then in your phone'scellular settings, you just flash that
(13:23):
QR code, it will load it into your phone,and then when you arrive in France,
it will activate the eSIM immediately.
And then you can just begin using allthat data, you can make calls as if
you were at home without incurringthe fees for your home phone plan as
long as you've turned off the littletoggle for your home phone plan.
Annie (13:41):
Right, and so it will ring, so if somebody calls your US
number, it will still ring, right?
You still have both.
Mike (13:51):
You could do that, but your home plan from your home country may
charge you a daily rate for having thataccess, so that's the tricky thing.
Annie (13:59):
Aha, aha, okay, so if you're traveling, tell your friends and
family to contact you through WhatsApp,which is what Europeans do all the
time, because that's totally free, itgoes through WiFi anywhere you are.
And if you get used to talking toyour friends and family through
WhatsApp, they can always reach youno matter where you are in the world.
All they need to do is know that newnumber, or if I don't know if you
(14:22):
use Facebook, Facebook messaging,or, Instagram messaging, or yeah.
Mike (14:27):
The one caveat I would have about getting an eSIM through a French
operator is that Free has very generousplan of 350 gigabytes for a month, for
only 20 euros, which sounds amazing.
But Free requires you to go intoa store to subscribe to that plan.
So you would have to arrive in France,get to your hotel, figure out where
there's a Free store, go in and it addsan extra step that's very inconvenient.
(14:52):
For the other French operators, they letyou just purchase a subscription online,
you get that QR code by email, you flashit from your phone settings and you're
ready to go once you arrive in France.
Annie (15:03):
That would be better, I think, because going to a Free mobile store,
and there's going to be a line,because there's always a line in
those stores, so yeah, don't do that.
Mike (15:11):
The other option is that you could just travel in France using your home
internet plan through your mobile phone.
And that's often whatwe've done in the past.
There's a US bias herebecause I'm from the US.
I'm not sure, you know, what theexperience is with other countries,
but for example, I'm on Verizon inthe US and for many of their plans,
you just get charged $10 a dayfor your usage, and you get a nice
(15:37):
amount of usage for every single day.
I just moved to a new plan with themand I get 10 gigabytes a month now
outside of the US, which you have tobe very careful with how much internet
you're using, but that works out okay.
AT&T has a plan that's a littlebit more expensive, T-Mobile has a
plan that's less expensive but alsohas less data, so it's one of those
(15:58):
things of just researching in advance.
I see the expense of internet of, even ifit's $10 a day from your home provider to
roam in Europe, that's a minimal, minimalexpense for when you're traveling that
goes towards something that's incrediblyvaluable for you, because you need
access to information, to maps, all thesedifferent things when you're traveling
(16:18):
around, and 10 dollars, 10 euros, whateverit might be per day is, you know, a
small price to pay for convenience.
Annie (16:26):
I totally agree.
You should not travelwithout data anymore.
Like, done.
Like, we're done with this.
Everybody expects you tohave access, you know.
You'll need to book tickets.
You'll need to download,perhaps, information.
Yeah, you need data.
Mike (16:43):
Yeah, so if you're on your home plan and you're trying to conserve your
data, you just make sure that you useyour WiFi in your hotel or your Airbnb,
maybe at a public hotspot in orderto do some of those larger downloads.
Or because you're going to be usingmapping a lot on your mobile device, you
can do offline maps on both Google Mapsand Apple Maps, where you go into the
(17:05):
settings where your little picture is inApple Maps or in Google Maps, and there
will be an option for offline maps, andyou can define an area, so you could,
for example, search for Paris, choosethe greater Paris area, and will download
all the streets, all the differentbuildings, monuments onto your phone so
that you're not pulling that informationfrom your cell phone data plan.
(17:27):
So that's one way to help try toconserve things, and that's really where
you're going to be using a lot of data.
Annie (17:32):
Yeah.
And also for people are worried aboutsecurity, you know, phone security, which
is always a good thing to worry about,as long as you're browsing to an HTTPS
website, they can't spoof your data.
So it's safe, like if you need to browse,I mean, I try to avoid browsing to my
bank and things like that when I'm ona trip, but if you must, it's HTTPS.
(17:57):
You know, the odds are infinitesimalthat anybody's going to spoof your data.
Mike (18:03):
So that's what I have on phone use, do you have any other things
that maybe some of your previousguests have come across or...
?Annie: No, I think that was pretty thorough, it's just that you need
it, just don't try to go cheap.
I've had people say, Oh, but I'vetraveled to France plenty, just use a map.
No, not anymore.
Right, and even something that I'll discuss a little bit later is, plans
(18:23):
change, and things unexpectedly happen,and even if you may be using a paper map,
you may get to a destination and findthat some of the things on the ground
are different, and you need to pivot.
And so having that phoneaccess is invaluable.
Annie (18:39):
Definitely, yeah.
Mike (18:41):
Right, staying on the phone theme, you and I had also discussed
about mobile apps that travelersshould have on their phones, and
this is for a variety of differentthings, so be it for transit, travel,
mapping, reservations, and so forth.
So I thought that we could justdiscuss things that we found
helpful and that maybe some of yourprevious guests have brought up.
So as I just mentioned before,Google Maps and Apple Maps.
(19:02):
People may have theirpreferences for one or the other.
Apple Maps has gotten alot better over the years.
It has a lot more transit stuffin it, but I still fall back
to Google Maps for most things.
Annie (19:12):
It's whatever you're used to.
Like, if you prefer one over theother, use whatever you prefer.
In Paris, I like CityMapper, youknow, it just depends on your habits.
Mike (19:22):
And I think that the one that you're most familiar with is probably going to
be the most valuable, because being ina different location and having to use
something that's unfamiliar is goingto be another stumbling block for you.
So, as you said, what is easiest for you?
Another couple of apps that you canactually choose one or the other.
For Paris Transit, there's the BonjourRATP, R A T P, or the IDF Mobilité app.
(19:47):
You can choose one or the other.
They, I think, largely workthe same and that's where your
virtual Navigo card can be stored.
So that's something that you should haveon your phone, and it also will help for
some of the mapping within the transitnetwork in Paris, because they can provide
some different optimized routings for you.
Annie (20:07):
Yeah, this is personal preference, you know, I've
used them both, they're fine.
A couple days ago, I was talkingto someone at the RATP and I said,
Oh, so we should use the BonjourRATP app instead of IDF Mobilité?
And she's like, well, I work forthe RATP, so obviously I'm going
to tell you to use the RATP app.
I was like, yeah, you're right.
I should have thought of that.
(20:28):
But yeah, you know, it'swhatever you're happy with.
Try them both.
I don't know.
Mike (20:32):
Right.
And then going outside of Paris,another important app to have for
travel would be the SNCF Connect app.
And that's the one that has allthe national trains, so things
outside of the city networks,to get you in between cities.
And so you can search train fareson there, but you can also book
and then use that when your ticketis being validated on the train.
(20:53):
So, you know, I used to go through,buy everything in advance on my
computer, print up the printoutwith the barcode for them to scan.
You don't need any of that anymore.
Everything can just be done on your phone.
They make it easy to exchangeif you need to, so...
Annie (21:07):
It's actually much easier if you just buy your train
tickets from the app directly.
Then it's on the app, youhave the QR code on the app.
You will get notifications if there'sany delays or anything happening.
You will get links to cancel,change, blah, blah, blah.
It's all on the app.
So just use the app insteadof trying to navigate, buying
(21:28):
everything on the computer and thentransferring it to the app, etc.
Mike (21:32):
Another one for getting around and some of our discussion today is
probably a little bit more Paris based,just because so many more people do make
it to Paris on their trip, is gettingaround Paris, sometimes public transit
isn't the best option for you and youmight want to take a taxi on Uber.
So Uber is good for crosstown tripswhen public transit isn't feasible.
So having that, if you already use thatin your home country, is easy to have.
(21:55):
And then for taxi rides, I'drecommend the G7 taxi app.
And for instance TG7, but G7Taxi is the name of the app.
And this is a good one, particularlyif you want to go to the airport,
because taxis can take special lanesthrough the city and getting out to the
airport and will make it much faster.
They're terrific for booking ahead,so if I'm leaving for the airport at
(22:18):
5:45 the following morning, I can gointo the app, pre-schedule my taxi,
they show up early, let you know thatthey're there, and it's seamless.
It's very, very easy to use.
Annie (22:30):
Yeah, an excellent app.
G7 is an excellent app.
And you could also use Uber, but likeyou said, they can't use the bus lanes.
And for the airport, I avoidUber because there's too many
fights between taxis and Uber.
And I just like, Uber for meis to go cross town, it's not.
Or Bolt, there's a lot of Bolts aswell in Paris and in France in general.
(22:54):
So you could use that app as well.
Mike (22:57):
And I know that another app that you often recommend on the podcast
is The Fork, or Fourchette in French.
And that's a spinoff of TripAdvisor,it's sort of one of their sub-brands.
And they manage restaurant reservationsfor various restaurants in France.
So I don't use it all that often,but it sounds like it's something
(23:17):
that you use more frequently?
Annie (23:18):
I use it because it makes my life easy, but if I know exactly where I want
to go, I'm going to call and I'm going tofind the phone number, call them, reserve.
But if I don't know exactly whereI want to go, if I'm just looking,
I will often look on Google forthe reviews, just to see, because
I don't know these places anymore.
I mean, it's just that because I'mFrench, I don't have, you know...
(23:39):
And if I'm not there to lookat it, I don't have any idea.
So I just look on Google for a few reviewsand then if I want to book, I might
go do it on The Fork or sometimes youcan book directly from Google as well.
Mike (23:51):
Right, that's something that I experienced a lot during this visit was
searching for a restaurant on Google, andthen they already had the button there
to say Reserve, and it made it very, very
Annie (24:00):
Yeah, yeah.
And what's good about these is thatyou can also cancel your reservation
very easily if you need to.
Which, you know, is nice to do.
Don't make a booking thatyou don't show up at.
Mike (24:11):
Right.
Depending on visitor's language abilities,a translation app such as Google
Translate would be quite invaluable.
It's very good at, you can takepictures of things and then it
can translate the signs for you.
Looking at menus, that can be helpfulsometimes for decoding various things.
And some people have their preferredtranslation apps where they can just
pass the phone back and forth andhave a conversation with someone.
(24:34):
I haven't used that for France, butI'm sure that, you know, that is
something that wouldn't be unheardof for certain tourist destinations.
Annie (24:41):
You know, I experienced this when I go to Spain because I can't really speak
Spanish as well as I would like to yet.
But I've never gone toquite the app thing.
I just try it, you know, I just try totell them what I want to tell them, like.
Mike (24:55):
I think with certain language pairings, that works better.
Like, I was traveling in Japan severalyears ago, and they just handed the
phone back and forth, and he wouldspeak into it, and we would speak
into it, and it would provide, like, alittle transcript back and forth, so.
Annie (25:08):
Yeah, yeah.
With Japanese, I can see that.
Yes.
I would be in the same situation.
Mike (25:14):
Giving a plug for you, the VoiceMap app with Annie's tours would
be something to have on your phone.
Yep, so.
Annie (25:20):
They work well but they work best if you download the tours that
you want before you get there, oreven before you get to your hotel,
because hotels sometimes have wimpyWiFi, depending on the hotel, really.
So if you know which ones you want to do,just download them before you get there.
Mike (25:36):
And then the final mobile apps that would be useful for
visitors would be, certain touristattractions have time ticketing
available only through their apps.
So, looking ahead, having an ideaof what you might want to visit
and seeing if there are any specialapps that you should download.
So just this week was the announcementof the app for booking Notre Dame
(25:57):
tickets now that Notre Dame is reopening.
So, you have to go through the app,choose everything through there, make
your reservation, and that's going tobe very much site specific as to where
you want to go, but something that youshould also consider having on your phone.
Annie (26:10):
Yeah.
So every major site will tryto get you to download an app.
They really like that.
But I can't, I don't want tohave a million apps on my phone.
But for Notre Dame, anymore,you don't have a choice.
The app is called CathédraleNotre Dame de Paris in French.
It's a white and blue app.
It exists on both Android and iPhone.
(26:31):
I downloaded it yesterday, which wasthe first day that it was available.
We're recording this in December.
All tickets for December aregone already, but I knew that.
Not for all of December, it's for thefirst half of December, they're gone.
After the 15th, maybe people willbe able to book a few spots, but you
do need the app or you won't get in.
Mike (26:51):
I subscribed to the newsletter from this American expat who lives in Paris.
She has a newslettercalled Secrets of Paris.
She's lived in Paris for nearly 30 yearsand she does really good recap of, like,
what's going on in Paris this month,here are the things that are changing,
here are the things to see and do.
She does meetups forexpats who live in Paris.
One of the things that she said aboutthe Notre Dame, Bookings is that
(27:14):
they're only allowing reservations afew days in advance, they will always
be free, no group tours are going tobe permitted for the first six months.
So there's no way that a touroperator can get you tickets.
You know, particularly those listeningin early 2025, don't try to fall for
any schemes of people promising youspecial tours of Notre Dame because
there's no way that anyone can setit up until the second half of 2025.
Annie (27:35):
No skip the lines.
Don't go for that.
You're not really skippingthe line in France.
Doesn't work.
I mean, you'll skip the ticket line.
The end.
You'll have to go through the other lines.
Mike (27:46):
All right, so I think on the mobile phone front, we're all covered.
Annie (27:50):
I think we're good.
Yep.
Mike (27:51):
What really kicked off my proposal about having this discussion today was
in September, the Authority for PublicTransit and the Parisian area announced
that they were going to be changingthe fare system for all the transport
throughout Paris and the suburbs.
(28:12):
And since so many people coming toParis are relying upon public transit
for getting around, this is a rathersignificant change, so I thought it would
be useful to provide an update so thatit's not a surprise when people show up.
Annie (28:25):
Definitely.
Mike (28:26):
One of the changes that's happened in Paris in the past few
years is they've moved away fromhaving paper tickets to contactless
payment through the Navigo cards.
And in the past six months, theNavigo cards have been extended to
all mobile phones, except for a coupleexceptions with a couple of Androids.
So you can now have your Navigo cardon your iPhone or on your Android
(28:48):
phone, and you can just tap thatat the fare gates to get through.
So providing a little guide forpeople who've not done this before.
For iPhone users, You can go into thewallet app on your iPhone and in the
upper right corner there's a plus sign.
And you'll be given different options ofthings that you can add to your wallet.
(29:09):
You can click on transit card.
And then scroll down toFrance, Paris, Navigo.
And when you click on the Navigo, it willprovide you different types of tickets
that you can load onto your phone.
So we'll discuss what those differentticket types are in a moment and how
you would choose which type of ticketsyou would like to add to your phone.
This works great if everyone in yourparty has their individual iPhones.
(29:31):
You can just go, everyone has their.
Navigo cards on their separate phones.
Every person can just tap themselves inwith whatever fares they've purchased.
However, there are the weird situationsthat you might be traveling with a
nine year old who doesn't have a phone,or with a senior citizen who may not
want to load things on their phone.
So, if you have multiple peoplein your group, what you can
(29:55):
use is the Bonjour RATP app.
And in there, the app lets you createmultiple virtual Navigo cards, so
you could have three or four or five,however many cards you want in there.
You can add the fares to each of thoseindividual cards, and then when you're
at the fare gates, you can tap one personin, they go through, change to the other
(30:16):
virtual card, tap the next person in.
So it's a way to have multiple cardson your phone for those situations.
Because most of the time you're goingto be able to get by with each person
having their own phone, but this wouldbe a way to get if you had other people.
The other option would be that you canget a Navigo Easy Card and Metro Stations.
(30:37):
Costs you 2 euros, and then youcan load fares onto a physical card
that's being tapped at the gate.
Annie (30:42):
Right.
I have several of those because that'swhat you had to do up until now.
So I assume several listenerswill have some Navigo Easy
cards or other Navigo cards.
I'm not sure what all of them willdo, but I know that the Navigo Easy
cards that you already have, you canuse them, and you can actually use
the tickets that you have because Ihave a bunch of tickets left on mine.
(31:06):
You can use them all theway through 2025 at least.
The lady wasn't sure.
She was like, I'm not sureif it'll extend after that.
Mike (31:13):
Yeah, I had heard through December 31st, 2025.
Any pre-existing fares that youhave on your card, you can use up
through 2025, but then that's it.
And then for Android users, I'm notan Android user, so just speaking from
what I could read online, is you caneither use the Bonjour RATP app or the
IDF Mobilité app, which largely work thesame, and you can load tickets on there,
(31:37):
and then you tap your phone at the gates,it loads the fares onto your phone.
And you don't even have to open theapp, it's just stored in your wallet,
and you can just tap through that way.
There are a couple of Android phones,including Google Pixel and Huawei phones,
that aren't compatible with the ticketing.
And so, in this case, you would haveto just get your Navigo Easy card and a
metro station to load the fares onto that.
Annie (31:58):
Yes, and my husband's a nerd and he really wanted it to
work on his Google phone and fail.
Mike (32:06):
Yeah.
Annie (32:07):
I was like, well, don't get a Google phone, you fool.
Mike (32:12):
Alright, so now the important thing, now that you have the ability
to add fares onto your phone, eitherthrough the Apple Wallet or through
the Bonjour RATP app, is a questionof what fares can you load on there.
So, the fare system for the ParisMetro, RER, and Transilien network,
and buses, and trams has nowchanged to a flat rate ticketing
(32:34):
price that's independent of any...
Annie (32:37):
Zone.
Mike (32:38):
...other factors.
So, in the past, there were fivegeographic zones, there were various
discount schemes based on one thing oranother, different prices based on type
of transport, whether you're buyingone ticket or ten tickets at a time,
if you had a monthly pass, and more.
So, the RATP was estimating thatthere were over 50,000 different
fare possibilities within thegreater Ile de France region based
(33:01):
on all these different factors.
And it was just incredibly complicated.
And it was also a little bitunequal for people who lived in
the suburbs coming into the city.
The price of transit was prohibitivelymore expensive than people living
within Paris and traveling within Paris.
So they're also seeking to equalizethe price burden for people within
(33:22):
Paris and outside the Paris region whoare relying upon coming into Paris.
Annie (33:26):
Right, so IDF is Ile de France.
It's the region.
So it's a much smaller regionthan say Aquitaine or Occitanie,
but it is its own region.
Mike (33:38):
So, the fare changes that they are implementing will result in an increase
in transit prices for visitors of about10-25 percent per ticket for most trips.
So if you're traveling just withincentral Paris, it's going to
be a little bit more expensive.
But overall, Paris transit is enormouslyless expensive than other European cities.
(33:59):
So it's still a very good deal.
But the new pricing applies to theentire region, and so transit costs
will actually drop by half for some ofthe places you might be going, so if
you're going to Disneyland, Versailles,Fontainebleau, places that were previously
much further out, they've capped the faresa few years ago, so I think it was like
five and a half euros was the maximumfare within the Ile de France region.
(34:23):
Well, now it'll be the same priceas if you're just going within
Paris, say from Notre Dame to theLouvre, you know, very short trip.
It's going to be the same priceif you're going all the way across
the region, so that's going to be asignificant cost savings for visitors.
Annie (34:40):
So it's 2.50, 2.50 euros for now, no matter where you're
going in the Ile de France.
Mike (34:47):
For Metro, RER and Transilien trains.
So this is something that we werediscussing a little bit before as
we were preparing the show, as the,transit authorities are using a
strange nomenclature that makes ita little bit confusing for visitors.
So they have this 2.50 euroticket for Metro, RER, and
(35:07):
what they say is the train.
Well, more specifically, the train thatit's valid for are the Transilien commuter
trains, and those are trains that goout into the suburbs that may sort of
go out a little bit further than whatthe RER trains are, but they're still
considered trains for within the region.
And you can recognize whichlines you can use the train.
(35:33):
RER metro tickets on.
Because metro lines all have anumber, currently 1 through 14.
They're going to be in the next fewyears opening lines 15 through 18.
So numbered lines in a circle witha color, those are metro lines.
And then there are lettered lines that arein a square with a color and those are A,
B, C, D, E, which are RER or Transilienwhich are H, J, K, L, N, P, R, U, V.
(35:59):
So if you're boarding a rail type oftrain that has a circle with a number or
a square with a letter, you can use this2 euro 50 ticket on any of those lines.
And Annie was speaking to, youmentioned that you called the RATP
the other day and said, Oh, I caneven take this to Fontainebleau.
And she said, yes, you cantake it to Fontainebleau.
(36:21):
The trick is that there areTransilien trains, which it's line
T, I believe, that goes out there.
You can use your 2 euro 50 ticket toget all the way out to Fontainebleau,
Annie (36:31):
On the T.
Mike (36:32):
Yes, but there are also regional trains, the TER trains that go out there,
and that is not part of this ticketingsystem, so just make sure that if you're
boarding a train with your 2 euro 50ticket, that it's a circle with a number
or a square with a letter and your fareis valid for those means of transport.
Annie (36:50):
That's an excellent point, because I was a little bit confused,
I was like, you can take thetrain like that's a SNCF train.
How does that work?
Mike (36:59):
Right.
I think this is a legacy.
When I lived in Paris eight yearsago, they were trying to define
all the train means of transportin the area as just The Train.
Whether it was a metro or anRER or a Transilien, they just
wanted to call it The Train.
Well, it seems like they've nowcalled the Transilien, The Train, but
then it does get confusing becausethere are so many other train means
(37:22):
of transport throughout France.
And so if it's a OuiGo or a inOUI oranother type of TGV or a TER, the regional
trains, this is not valid for those.
So it's only for the commuterlines and the suburban lines and
the metro lines within Paris.
Annie (37:41):
But it also means that if you are just like you mentioned, if you're
just going two metro stops over, you payexactly the same price as if you were
going between Versailles and Disneyland.
You know, which is, it's going totake you an hour, two hours almost.
So yeah, it seems weird, but it'sbetter for French people because
(38:04):
it'll be cheaper for the peoplewho live in the suburban areas.
Mike (38:07):
But even in my experience living in Paris previously, is that if I wanted
to go to Versailles, if I wanted togo to Disneyland, if I wanted to go to
Fontainebleau, it became a challengegoing into a station and then having to
buy a special ticket that was a differentprice than everything else and having to
queue at a ticketing machine and all that.
This eliminates all those hasslesthat you previously would have.
Annie (38:30):
And it used to be that you couldn't add your train to Versailles
to your Navigo card, but now you can.
I mean, it'll just be the same ticket.
Mike (38:39):
Yeah.
Annie (38:39):
It's silly for me to say you can't, because it'll be the
same ticket, so it won't matter.
Mike (38:43):
Right.
The only exception with the trains isthat if you want to access the airports,
there will now be a special airportaccess ticket, and that's 13 euros.
And so instead of the 2.50 flat ratefor the overall region on train means of
transport, if you want to take Orly viaMetro Line 14 or get to Orly via the Orly
(39:06):
Val train, which connects the RERB, orif you want to go to Charles de Gaulle
Airport via RERB, if you're exitingat the airport, it will be 13 euros.
So you will need to add that 13euro airport access ticket to your
virtual wallet or to your Navigo card.
Annie (39:21):
So I think the Orly Val might be more expensive by a couple of euros.
Mike (39:26):
No I checked, all airport means are going to be 13 euros.
Annie (39:30):
I think eventually they will do away with the Orly Val, I think
eventually they want people, becauseLine 14 goes there now, of the metro,
so most people will just take Line 14.
And it's very good, veryfast, very clean, very good.
Mike (39:44):
That's it for the train system.
The other part of the fare changesin Paris is that there is now a
cheaper ticket for travel on busesor trams in the greater Paris region.
So there are many, many bus linesthroughout Paris and the suburbs.
And about a dozen different tramlines that run on the periphery
(40:07):
of Paris and out into the suburbs.
And if you're taking the bus ortram anywhere in the Paris region,
then it's a 2 euro flat rate.
So it's cheaper than taking ametro in RER or a Transilien train.
So I think this lower price isto try to encourage some of these
other surface means of transport.
I think a lot of people may haveavoided doing that in the past, but...
Annie (40:29):
It's a little cheaper now...
Mike (40:30):
Yeah, with Google Maps or some of these other transit mapping
things, if they're giving you busoptions, it's a wonderful experience.
It's a great way to seethe city from up above.
You get to go through some differentneighborhoods that normally, if you're
underground, you wouldn't get to see.
So I find it kind of fun to take thebus and the tram in different places.
Annie (40:49):
The only problem with that is that it used to be that it was the
exact same metro ticket that you tookeither on the bus or on the metro.
Now they're different.
So I'm going to have to loadbus tickets on my Navigo card,
whereas I could just use up mytickets in the same way everywhere.
(41:09):
So, just remember that if you planon taking the bus or the tram, metro
tickets will not be valid at all.
Even though they're moreexpensive, so I told them, I
said, but it's more expensive.
What do you care, if the personwants to pay 50 cents more, let them?
And she's like, no, they're not valid,you will get a ticket if they catch you,
(41:31):
with, you know, a metro ticket on the bus.
Okay.
Mike (41:35):
Yeah, and so on the topic of transfers is you can transfer among
bus and tram lines for 90 minutes.
So if you're, you know, you can continuegoing from one bus to another bus
to a tram, to a different tram, toanother bus over a 90 minute period.
And you'll continue to be ableto transfer for 90 minutes.
With the train, RER metro ticket, you havetwo hours, during which you can use that
(41:59):
same ticket to continue making transfers.
But you can't, as you said, transfer fromthe bus tram ticket to a metro RER train
ticket without using a brand new ticket.
Annie (42:11):
Right.
So for people who think they wantto try the bus or the tram, but the
tram would only be if you're in theperiphery, but even if you're in central
Paris, if you want to use the bus,then you have to buy a few bus tickets.
Add your Navigo card.
Mike (42:28):
You had also brought up the topic of reduced fares.
I had a little bit of difficultyfinding information about reduced fares.
They've had different prices in the past.
A lot of them are really set asidefor people who live in the Paris
region and who have already likemonthly passes or annual passes.
So I think this is a topic thatwon't be relevant to a lot of people.
(42:50):
The one that will pop up is that theydo list discount fares on the website
and basically it's half the price.
So 1.25 for the train ticketsor 1 euro for the bus tickets.
And that would be for children fromfour through nine years old inclusive.
So if you have a four year old, if youhave a nine year old, they can get a
(43:11):
half price ticket and we can't see yeton the Navigo pages how this will work.
But currently, with the way that the oldtickets work, if you're in your wallet
and you're adding a full fare ticket,you can just choose a full fare ticket.
You could, in this case, choose a reducedfare ticket for your child and then tap
(43:33):
them in using the reduced fare ticket.
But just make sure not to purchasereduced fare tickets for yourself
because they do have ticket controlsin stations and on buses and if
you're using a reduced fare ticket foryourself and you're not eligible for
that then you're going to get a fine.
Annie (43:49):
Yes.
And the enforcement inParis is not friendly, okay?
They will ask you to pay thefine immediately on the spot.
And people get mad and, but veryoften it's people who they bought
the cheapest ticket they could findon a machine because they figured
it would open the gates, and thenthey get caught and then they just.
(44:10):
It wasn't my fault!
Mike (44:11):
And they've announced that they're going to step up
enforcement of fare controls nowthat they're changing the system.
So they're going to have even moreticket controls in the future.
So don't put yourself in a situation justin order to save a euro here and there.
Annie (44:25):
And that's another reason why you should use your app to have your
tickets on, because when people used tohave paper tickets, they sometimes got
off the train and threw out the ticketand then didn't realize that they needed
it until they were at the surface.
So like, just because you'veexited the train didn't mean you
didn't need the ticket anymore.
(44:46):
There might be people controlling,you know, 200 meters further
before you are on the street.
But if you are using the app,then you have them in your pocket.
Mike (44:56):
And then the final topic on the evolution of the fares
in Paris are special passes.
And so this is the Navigo Daily pass,the Navigo Jour, the Paris Visite Pass,
and then one other that I will address.
So the Navigo Day pass is going to be12 euros, and that will allow access to
every mode of transport from 12:01 amto 11:59 pm except for airport access.
(45:23):
So you can pay 12 euros and then thatwill let you be on a train and a tram and
a bus and a metro and an RER, whateveryou want throughout the day for 12 euros.
It's a great option if you're takingmore than five total trips in one day
or if you just don't want to reallythink about your tickets all that much.
So you would buy it late in the evening,it would then activate for the following
(45:46):
day, and then you can just use thatdaily pass for 12 euros for the 24 hour
period from 12:01 am until 11:59 pm.
So that's one option for visitors.
Annie (45:58):
That's a good option, yeah..
Mike (45:59):
Yeah, the other option is the Paris Visite Pass, and this pass lets you choose
one, two, three, or five days of validity.
It starts at about 30 euros per day, andthen each day gets a little bit cheaper.
So if you were to buy a five-daypass, it's about 75 euros, I believe.
It gets you unlimited use oftransport, including airport access.
(46:19):
And it gets you discounts for a fewtourist sites, but it really, it's like
a few euros off at the Musée Grévin,it's a few euros off at the Château
de Vincennes, and things like that.
Annie (46:31):
Places where people don't go very much.
Mike (46:33):
Yeah, I tend to find the Paris Visite Pass to not be a very good deal.
The price has gone up quite a bitfrom what it used to be, so I think
that it's probably one to avoid.
You can maybe do a little bit ofresearch and figure out if it works for
your specific situation, but I thinkon the whole, the best situation is
either buying your individual dailytickets or the Navigo Jour Day Pass.
Annie (46:54):
Agreed.
Mike (46:54):
And as you're looking at fares, there's going to be another
one called Navigo Liberté Plus, andthis is something that is reserved
for locals, so it's not going to beof interest for the regular tourist.
It's basically, you sign up, you add yourbank account to your Navigo account, and
then they charge you at the end of themonth for all the trips you've taken.
(47:14):
It cuts 20 percent off of your travelcost, so it may come across your, as
you're doing your research, trying toset up things, you may see something
about the Navigo Liberté Plus.
Just ignore it because basically youhave to be a local and use a French
bank account to link everything.
So just ignore that.
Annie (47:30):
Right, yeah.
Because there are locals who willuse the yearly Navigo or the Navigo,
which will still exist, I think.
But if you only taketransportation on occasion, this
Liberté Plus is a good deal.
Mike (47:42):
Right.
So, that's it for our main topics,and then you had asked me also
what other things I found newin France during this visit.
So, in discussing with my husband, wecame up with a couple of just funny little
things that may, you know, help one ortwo or three of your listeners out there.
One of the things is for those of youwho've competed in sporting events in
France in the past, such as a runningrace or a triathlon, it used to be...
Annie (48:05):
That's right, it's changed.
Mike (48:06):
It used to be you had to get a doctor's note
approving your participation.
Your doctor had to write this lettersaying that you've suffered from no
physical ailments and that you are ableto compete in this event and so forth.
That one changed in the middle ofthis year with a new online tool
called the Parcours PréventionSanté, the Health Prevention Pathway.
(48:27):
And it's basically a quick littlefive minute thing that you do online.
They do a little video about differentexercise related health topics.
They give you a couple little quizquestions, and then that generates a
certificate for you that you present whenyou're competing in this athletic event.
So it's sort of removed one ofthose like little annoyances.
You still have to do something, butyou don't have to go get special
(48:48):
paperwork from your doctor andhave all this stuff signed off on.
Annie (48:51):
Yeah, French doctors complained bitterly about this
because people would come in to geta certificate for their kid, but then
would also bring up this and this.
And so, so the doctor wouldsay, Oh, this is a fast visit.
You know, this is a 12 year oldwho's going to sign up for soccer,
you know, five minutes is fine.
But then the mom or the dad wouldjust bring up this and this and
(49:12):
this, and they ended up spending alot of time on these minor things.
And so they just, they, yeah, last, lasttime there was a negotiation about the,
how much you pay for doctor's visit,they said no more certificates for health
stuff, like, unless the person, I mean,if you're signing up for if you've had
a health issue, that's different, but...
Mike (49:33):
Another thing that was, of note that may be interesting to some
visitors, is just the way in whichtraffic flows in Paris and outside
of Paris has changed quite a bit.
In Paris, bikes have become a much biggerpart of life, and so there are bike
lanes, some different street closuresto make things available only to bikes,
such as the Rue de Rivoli in Paris.
(49:54):
And so that will make things a little bitmore tricky as you're trying to navigate,
because places where there might have beenbuses before, or where there might have
been taxis, it's a little bit, you have tosort of work around some of these changes
that have happened with the traffic flow.
But as I drove outside of Paris andspent a bit of time in the countryside,
different cities and even small towns outin very rural areas have made changes to
(50:16):
the way traffic flows in order to slowdown traffic and to make things safer.
When I lived in France 30 years ago asa university student, the death toll on
French roads was enormously high and ithas dropped precipitously because a lot
of different things have been implemented.
So as I was driving into small towns,there would be little bump outs that
force you to drive around a planterand then driving around another
(50:39):
planter and then people in the oppositedirection had to stop themselves
in order to go around in their way.
So there are a lot of different things
Annie (50:47):
To slow people down, yeah.
Mike (50:48):
Yeah to keep people more alert and being more mindful
of what the speeds were.
And you often talk aboutthe speed cameras, and those
are obviously everywhere.
So there are a lot of things that, youknow, as a driver, you might find, oh,
wait a minute, why are they doing this?
And it's out of the interest oftrying to slow down traffic and
make things safer for people.
Annie (51:07):
Yeah, my village went to 30 kilometers per
hour in much of the village.
And it's it feels really really slow.
But I try to stick to itbecause it's for good reason.
There are cats crossing the street.
Even if there's no people, I don't,I do not want to crush a cat, okay?
(51:27):
So I'd rather go a littleslower and yeah, be done.
Yeah.
Mike (51:32):
Final two observations.
One rather silly is that Inoticed that cocktail menus
have taken the country by storm.
When we lived in Paris eightyears ago, it was rather rare to
find a cocktail menu anywhere.
You might be able to get anaperitif here and there, a Kir
Royal or something like that.
But every restaurant in Paris,every restaurant in Angers, every
restaurant in the small town wheremy friends live in the suburbs of
(51:54):
La Rochelle has a cocktail menu.
And so that's just afunny observation that
Annie (51:59):
Yes.
Mike (51:59):
you can get all these spritzes and Palomas and special gin and tonics
and all the bespoke thing of thesmall restaurant in the small town.
Annie (52:10):
Yeah.
And French people aredrinking less and less wine.
It's surprising, if you see thecurve, it's like, it's like,
we're not drinking any wine.
And wine consumption went up alittle bit during the pandemic.
I think it was becauseof stress or whatever.
And since the pandemic is goingdown steadily, but people do drink
cocktails and things like that.
Mike (52:29):
And the final observation I have is sort of the overarching theme of our
discussion today is, this is an attemptto try to catch up on a lot of the
logistics issues of the past 10 years.
You know, things that haveevolved over the time that
you've been doing the podcast.
But despite all the information that'sout there, everything that we've talked
about today, there's going to be hiccups.
And so we can try to be themasters of logistics, but sometimes
(52:50):
things won't work out as planned.
And so we just need to make sure thatwe are as flexible as possible and
understanding of the changes that pop up.
I tried to go to the Musée deCluny one day that it was open.
I showed up and there's a sign infront saying, Oh, we're closed today.
And I heard someone walk by and saysomething about grève, you know, a strike.
And so there is unexpectedly a strike.
(53:11):
I wanted to go out into the suburbsto visit the Cité Internationale de la
Langue Française, a special museum aboutthe history of the French language.
I planned weeks ahead.
I had everything all laid out.
I, sort of scoped out the tickets.
And then the night before, I wasjust confirming the operating hours
and there was a special banner onthere saying, Oh, we're going to
be closed this week, exceptionally,because we have some foreign
(53:32):
dignitaries who are visiting, so...
Annie (53:34):
And I want to get the guy who started it on the podcast.
I keep forgetting to reach out to him.
But I would like to get him becausethis is an interesting place, right,
language kind of displays, yeah.
Mike (53:47):
And during this trip, I went out to Chartre for the first time,
because I wanted to visit the cathedral.
I was looking at a website thatwas called cathedrale-chartres.org,
to get all my information.
And so I planned what I was going todo tour wise, audio guide, all those
different things, And then it turnsout there's a different website that's
run by The National Center of Monumentsthat's called chartres-cathedrale.fr,
(54:11):
and it also has information, but theinformation isn't completely in sync.
One is run by the cathedral, and oneis run by The National Center that is
in charge of the national cathedrals.
And the information didn't quite lineup about when tours available, when you
could visit the treasury, the cryptsabout Visio guides and stuff like that.
(54:32):
So you can try your best, butsometimes you just have to be
flexible and understand that youcan't have perfect information.
Annie (54:40):
Yes, yes.
And don't try to planeverything to the minute.
You'll drive yourself crazy with that.
Wow, that was a lot of information.
Mike, you're awesome.
You did a lot of research for this.
I did a little bit, but you did a lot.
There's some things you explained that Iwas like, Oh, I wasn't sure about that.
So thank you so much.
That's really wonderful.
And I'm sorry we didn't havetime to talk about your trip.
(55:02):
You went to lot of fun places.
Let's see...
Mike (55:05):
In Paris for the first time.
I visited the Chateau Vincennes and Iwent out to Chartres for the first time.
What else did I say?
Oh, we visited the new Collection Pinot,which is a new museum near Les Halles.
And in Angers, I went to a Michelinstarred restaurant and La Rochelle,
visited some things with friendsin the area for the first time.
(55:26):
So it was a nice opportunity tocatch up on some new things and
see some old things that, you know,are always part of the itinerary.
Annie (55:35):
Fantastic.
Thank you so much, Mike.
And, uh, please come back on the podcast.
Hopefully not in eight years.
Certainly.
Thank you, Annie.
Merci beaucoup.
Merci.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
(55:55):
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode 527, cinq cent vingt-sept.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withMike August about exciting changes
(00:36):
which are coming to France in 2025.
You don't want to be caught off guard,so join me and Mike August as we
unpack what visitors need to know,including major updates to Paris metro
travels which started on January 1st.
From cashless systems to smoothercommutes, this episode will ensure you're
(00:58):
prepared to navigate Paris like a pro.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my itineraryconsult service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that on myboutique, joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
(01:22):
And Patreon supporters get new episodesas soon as they are ready and ad-free.
If that sounds good to you, be likethem, follow the link in the show notes.
There will not be a magazinepart of the podcast today
because this recording ran long.
So, Happy New Year everyone!
It's a fresh start, but let's be real,some things never change, like my need for
(01:44):
your support to keep this podcast rolling.
If you love learning aboutFrance and enjoy my ramblings,
why not become a patron?
Join me on Patreon, it's likebuying me a croissant, but with
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To join this wonderful community ofFrancophiles, go to patreon.com/JoinUs.
(02:06):
That's P A T R E O N,JoinUs, no spaces or dashes.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/ElysArt.
E L Y S A R T.
And thank you very much.
(02:29):
Bonjour, Mike August, and welcomeback to Join Us in France.
Mike (02:33):
Bonjour Annie, thank you for having me.
Annie (02:35):
Oh, lovely to see you, this time we're recording seeing each other.
Last time it was so longago, I didn't use any video.
Nobody did.
Mike (02:42):
Yes, it's been quite a while.
And is right around the time ofanother interesting election.
Annie (02:48):
Oh, well, that's what happens.
That's what happens.
Okay.
So you took a trip to Francerecently and it had been a
while for you as well, right?
Mike (02:56):
My husband and I came to France at the end of September.
I ended up being therefor about two weeks.
The previous trip had been two years priorand then I think four years before that.
So I like to have a frequencyof about every 18 months, so it
had slowed down a little bit.
Annie (03:12):
Right.
Right.
And you didn't just go toParis this time, right?
Mike (03:17):
No, we were in Paris to run a 10 mile race between the
Eiffel Tower and Versailles.
But I also wanted to visit the townthat I lived in when I was a university
student and visiting some friendsnear La Rochelle, so spend a little
bit of time out in the countryside.
Annie (03:32):
Wonderful.
So today we're going to talk aboutthe logistics of planning a trip to
France, what has changed in the lastfew years since you were here, and also
some big changes for the transportationsystem, the public transportation
system in Paris specifically.
So why don't you tell us about some ofthe things that changed overall in France
(03:56):
in the time that you hadn't been here?
Mike (03:58):
So, when I was talking to you about my trip, I mentioned a few things
that were notable and particularly thisstemmed from, you know, in the past few
years, occasionally during the magazinesegment of the podcast, you'll talk
about this little thing, that littlething, and thought it might be useful
to have everything aggregated, becausehaving been a listener for nearly 10
years, if someone's going back andlistening to the back catalog, they're
(04:20):
going to hear things about creditcards that have completely changed.
They're going to hear things about cellphone use that have completely changed.
And what prompted my bringing thisup to you is that the fare system for
Paris Metro and all public transitin Paris is completely changing.
So it might be helpful for someonejoining the podcast for the first time,
(04:42):
or someone who's been listening for along time, but coming back to France
that they might want to pick up on someof these things that have changed, so...
Annie (04:50):
Absolutely, yes.
It's very, very helpful because it doeschange and people do talk to me about
things I said, you know, 10 years ago.
I'm like, Well, that has moved, Imean, okay, if we're talking about a
chateau, the Chateau de Chambord, thehistory has not changed, but if we're
talking about transportation and hotelsand things, yeah, things have changed.
All right, so what's the firstthing that you noticed that
(05:10):
you would like to bring up?
Mike (05:12):
So the first thing is about how you spend your money in France.
You know, obviously, people plantheir trips, they have everything
laid out, but then when they getto France, they're going to have
to pay for a lot of these things.
And I think that the thing that haschanged significantly, certainly
since I was living there eightyears ago, is the balance of how
you're using cash, how you're usingpayment cards, and mobile payments.
(05:36):
And so one of the most significant thingsthat I think has happened in France,
and I think has happened generally sincethe pandemic around the world, is that
tap-to-pay has become much more prevalent.
And when I lived there previously,or was a visitor to France, I was
using our American swipe creditcards, which were uncommon in France
(05:56):
and forced the merchants to haveto print up a little payment slip
that people would have to sign.
It sort of really signaled youas being an outsider, as an
inconvenience for everyone.
And with the advent of chip cards, thathas reduced some of it, but then now
pretty much everywhere I went I couldjust use tap-to-payment whether that
was in a restaurant at a merchant.
(06:17):
Or if I was using even the public toiletsthat you used to have to give a euro for,
I could just tap my phone to pay there.
And so it just madethings so much simpler.
It removed one of those points offriction that you would often have
with a merchant that was uncomfortable.
Annie (06:33):
And you even tap-to-pay if you want to buy a candle in a church.
There's a beggar in Pariswho takes credit cards.
He's a guy that I've seen around for yearsand he has, every year he changes dog,
Mike (06:46):
hmm.
Annie (06:46):
...which I don't like, but he does it because he wants
a young looking dog, right?
It works better.
And now he takes credit cards.
Mike (06:53):
Yep.
Yeah, and so, with this prevalence oftap-to-pay, you can use your credit
card, and most of the credit cardshave the tap implemented within the
chip, so you can just do that, but youcan also do that through your phone.
So whichever way is thebest way to do that.
I'd recommend that if people don'talready have their cards on their
(07:15):
phone, like through Apple Pay orGoogle Pay, Android Pay, that it's
a good safe way to do things becauseit actually generates a brand new
number for the card that's being used.
And so if you're to lose your phone,you still have your cards at the
hotel as a backup, or carry one cardwith you in addition to your mobile
payment, and then have your othercards back at the hotel so that you
(07:37):
have things in two separate places.
And if you lose one, youdon't lose everything.
Annie (07:41):
Exactly, amen, absolutely.
I mean, I use Apple Pay.
And occasionally, I leave my houseor apartment without my phone.
And you can still use Apple Pay justwith your watch if you have it set
up on your Apple Watch correctly.
So, just really, take the few minutes it'sgoing to take to set it up and it works
pretty much the same with Google Pay.
(08:02):
Please do that, it willsave you a lot of trouble.
Mike (08:05):
And I think one of the restrictions with some of the tap-to-pay in
the past was that France had veryspecific restrictions on how much
you could spend in a tap transaction.
And those seem to have been liftedbecause I could pay, yeah, a large payment
at a restaurant, no problem at all.
So there shouldn't beany restrictions there.
And then the other piece of the puzzleis about cash, and I know that that's
(08:27):
something that's often been debated onthe forums on Facebook, or people who've
come and talked on the podcast previously.
And cash is almost not needed at all.
If you wanted to get 40 or 60euros from an ATM after arriving,
either at the airport or atan ATM near your hotel, sure.
(08:48):
But I think that I probably didn'tspend more than a few euros in
cash during the entire time thatI was in France for two weeks.
So that's one thing that hasreally significantly changed.
Annie (08:59):
Absolutely, even if you want to buy things at an open air market, for example,
they take credit cards for the most part.
It's easier for them and it'svery unusual to have a place that
doesn't take credit cards anymore.
So, yeah, be prepared like that.
Mike (09:15):
And then the final thing to bring up is that there have often been
issues over the years, particularlybefore American Cards had payment
chips, is people would have issuesat toll booths on the autoroute, they
would have issues at gas stations.
And I was able to use my UScards fine on the toll roads.
And then at a gas station, I didhave an issue, but I pulled out every
(09:38):
single card that I had, includingmy French bank account because I
still have a French bank account.
I pulled out my Société Généralecard, and it didn't work for tap.
Ultimately, I ended up taking anAmerican card and inserting it into
the chip reader, and then it worked.
So I think that there is an issue withthe tap-to-pay on that specific device.
But ultimately, insertingthe card worked fine.
So I think that the issues that peoplehave had in the past, are largely gone.
Annie (10:02):
It's pretty much gone.
And if you're very worried aboutit, this is one case where you
could have if you have some coins.
You know, a coin, you need a eurocoin to unlock the carts in a lot
of places where you go shopping.
But that's the only coin that you musthave, is a euro coin for shopping.
And you get it back by the way.
But sometimes if you're not sureyour credit card is going to work,
(10:25):
if you have some cash, you canusually insert a 10 or a 20 and
it will give you some change back.
But credit cards work on thesetoll roads almost all of the time.
And now we're going to toll roadswithout payments where I'm not sure
how it's going to work, but as soon asthey implement that a little more, I
(10:46):
will go try one and see what happens.
Because I have one of these littleboxes that just pays by itself.
I'll hide it and see how I have topay at the end, because I'm going
to have to figure out how to pay.
Mike (10:57):
Yep.
So that's what I hadon the payments front.
I think maybe the next thing wecould discuss is mobile phones,
because that ends up being a veryimportant part of people's experience
in navigating their time in France.
You had asked me what some of theupdated tips would be, and about
using French eSIMs or whethervisitors should use their home plans.
(11:18):
So I did a little bit of research.
When I was traveling in France, I'vekept my Bouygues French phone number
from when I lived there previously.
It's an inexpensive thing, soI haven't had the experience
of purchasing an eSIM myself.
But if you are looking at getting aneSIM when traveling to France, what
you do is, in your phone settings,in the cellular settings, you can
(11:39):
go and search for adding a plan.
And you can do this through thefour main operators in France or you
could do it through an internationalprovider that offers service in France.
But if you're largely going to betraveling in France, I'd recommend using
one of the French providers becauseyou'll be able to get the highest speeds.
If you're using an international planyou may be throttled to a slower speed.
Annie (12:02):
Right, right.
So Orange would be a good one.
Free is another one, and wesay frr, frr, frr, and it's not
free, you have to pay for it, butit's the name of the company, F.
R.
E.
E.
You have Bouygues, like youmentioned, and who else, S.
F.
R., S.
F.
R., yeah.
Mike (12:18):
Right.
Right.
So I looked at all of them andalmost all of their eSIM options
for travelers, run from 15 to 50euros for a period of 15 to 30 days,
giving you different amounts of data.
Almost all of them let you roam intoother countries, so if you were pairing
France with a trip to Germany or theUK, for example, you would be able
(12:41):
to continue using your data whiletraveling to those other countries.
There's some variability, like whichplan you choose may give you 5G speeds,
they may give you 4G speeds, which aren'tgoing to be optimal, because some places
don't have quite as good throughputfor the lower, for the old networks.
(13:02):
So there's a little bit of variety there,but basically you can go to the Bouigues,
SFR, Orange or Free websites lookingfor their eSIM packages for tourists.
And for all of them except for Free, youcan just sign up online, they'll give
you a QR code, and then in your phone'scellular settings, you just flash that
(13:23):
QR code, it will load it into your phone,and then when you arrive in France,
it will activate the eSIM immediately.
And then you can just begin using allthat data, you can make calls as if
you were at home without incurringthe fees for your home phone plan as
long as you've turned off the littletoggle for your home phone plan.
Annie (13:41):
Right, and so it will ring, so if somebody calls your US
number, it will still ring, right?
You still have both.
Mike (13:51):
You could do that, but your home plan from your home country may
charge you a daily rate for having thataccess, so that's the tricky thing.
Annie (13:59):
Aha, aha, okay, so if you're traveling, tell your friends and
family to contact you through WhatsApp,which is what Europeans do all the
time, because that's totally free, itgoes through WiFi anywhere you are.
And if you get used to talking toyour friends and family through
WhatsApp, they can always reach youno matter where you are in the world.
All they need to do is know that newnumber, or if I don't know if you
(14:22):
use Facebook, Facebook messaging,or, Instagram messaging, or yeah.
Mike (14:27):
The one caveat I would have about getting an eSIM through a French
operator is that Free has very generousplan of 350 gigabytes for a month, for
only 20 euros, which sounds amazing.
But Free requires you to go intoa store to subscribe to that plan.
So you would have to arrive in France,get to your hotel, figure out where
there's a Free store, go in and it addsan extra step that's very inconvenient.
(14:52):
For the other French operators, they letyou just purchase a subscription online,
you get that QR code by email, you flashit from your phone settings and you're
ready to go once you arrive in France.
Annie (15:03):
That would be better, I think, because going to a Free mobile store,
and there's going to be a line,because there's always a line in
those stores, so yeah, don't do that.
Mike (15:11):
The other option is that you could just travel in France using your home
internet plan through your mobile phone.
And that's often whatwe've done in the past.
There's a US bias herebecause I'm from the US.
I'm not sure, you know, what theexperience is with other countries,
but for example, I'm on Verizon inthe US and for many of their plans,
you just get charged $10 a dayfor your usage, and you get a nice
(15:37):
amount of usage for every single day.
I just moved to a new plan with themand I get 10 gigabytes a month now
outside of the US, which you have tobe very careful with how much internet
you're using, but that works out okay.
AT&T has a plan that's a littlebit more expensive, T-Mobile has a
plan that's less expensive but alsohas less data, so it's one of those
(15:58):
things of just researching in advance.
I see the expense of internet of, even ifit's $10 a day from your home provider to
roam in Europe, that's a minimal, minimalexpense for when you're traveling that
goes towards something that's incrediblyvaluable for you, because you need
access to information, to maps, all thesedifferent things when you're traveling
(16:18):
around, and 10 dollars, 10 euros, whateverit might be per day is, you know, a
small price to pay for convenience.
Annie (16:26):
I totally agree.
You should not travelwithout data anymore.
Like, done.
Like, we're done with this.
Everybody expects you tohave access, you know.
You'll need to book tickets.
You'll need to download,perhaps, information.
Yeah, you need data.
Mike (16:43):
Yeah, so if you're on your home plan and you're trying to conserve your
data, you just make sure that you useyour WiFi in your hotel or your Airbnb,
maybe at a public hotspot in orderto do some of those larger downloads.
Or because you're going to be usingmapping a lot on your mobile device, you
can do offline maps on both Google Mapsand Apple Maps, where you go into the
(17:05):
settings where your little picture is inApple Maps or in Google Maps, and there
will be an option for offline maps, andyou can define an area, so you could,
for example, search for Paris, choosethe greater Paris area, and will download
all the streets, all the differentbuildings, monuments onto your phone so
that you're not pulling that informationfrom your cell phone data plan.
(17:27):
So that's one way to help try toconserve things, and that's really where
you're going to be using a lot of data.
Annie (17:32):
Yeah.
And also for people are worried aboutsecurity, you know, phone security, which
is always a good thing to worry about,as long as you're browsing to an HTTPS
website, they can't spoof your data.
So it's safe, like if you need to browse,I mean, I try to avoid browsing to my
bank and things like that when I'm ona trip, but if you must, it's HTTPS.
(17:57):
You know, the odds are infinitesimalthat anybody's going to spoof your data.
Mike (18:03):
So that's what I have on phone use, do you have any other things
that maybe some of your previousguests have come across or...
?Annie: No, I think that was pretty thorough, it's just that you need
it, just don't try to go cheap.
I've had people say, Oh, but I'vetraveled to France plenty, just use a map.
No, not anymore.
Right, and even something that I'll discuss a little bit later is, plans
(18:23):
change, and things unexpectedly happen,and even if you may be using a paper map,
you may get to a destination and findthat some of the things on the ground
are different, and you need to pivot.
And so having that phoneaccess is invaluable.
Annie (18:39):
Definitely, yeah.
Mike (18:41):
Right, staying on the phone theme, you and I had also discussed
about mobile apps that travelersshould have on their phones, and
this is for a variety of differentthings, so be it for transit, travel,
mapping, reservations, and so forth.
So I thought that we could justdiscuss things that we found
helpful and that maybe some of yourprevious guests have brought up.
So as I just mentioned before,Google Maps and Apple Maps.
(19:02):
People may have theirpreferences for one or the other.
Apple Maps has gotten alot better over the years.
It has a lot more transit stuffin it, but I still fall back
to Google Maps for most things.
Annie (19:12):
It's whatever you're used to.
Like, if you prefer one over theother, use whatever you prefer.
In Paris, I like CityMapper, youknow, it just depends on your habits.
Mike (19:22):
And I think that the one that you're most familiar with is probably going to
be the most valuable, because being ina different location and having to use
something that's unfamiliar is goingto be another stumbling block for you.
So, as you said, what is easiest for you?
Another couple of apps that you canactually choose one or the other.
For Paris Transit, there's the BonjourRATP, R A T P, or the IDF Mobilité app.
(19:47):
You can choose one or the other.
They, I think, largely workthe same and that's where your
virtual Navigo card can be stored.
So that's something that you should haveon your phone, and it also will help for
some of the mapping within the transitnetwork in Paris, because they can provide
some different optimized routings for you.
Annie (20:07):
Yeah, this is personal preference, you know, I've
used them both, they're fine.
A couple days ago, I was talkingto someone at the RATP and I said,
Oh, so we should use the BonjourRATP app instead of IDF Mobilité?
And she's like, well, I work forthe RATP, so obviously I'm going
to tell you to use the RATP app.
I was like, yeah, you're right.
I should have thought of that.
(20:28):
But yeah, you know, it'swhatever you're happy with.
Try them both.
I don't know.
Mike (20:32):
Right.
And then going outside of Paris,another important app to have for
travel would be the SNCF Connect app.
And that's the one that has allthe national trains, so things
outside of the city networks,to get you in between cities.
And so you can search train fareson there, but you can also book
and then use that when your ticketis being validated on the train.
(20:53):
So, you know, I used to go through,buy everything in advance on my
computer, print up the printoutwith the barcode for them to scan.
You don't need any of that anymore.
Everything can just be done on your phone.
They make it easy to exchangeif you need to, so...
Annie (21:07):
It's actually much easier if you just buy your train
tickets from the app directly.
Then it's on the app, youhave the QR code on the app.
You will get notifications if there'sany delays or anything happening.
You will get links to cancel,change, blah, blah, blah.
It's all on the app.
So just use the app insteadof trying to navigate, buying
(21:28):
everything on the computer and thentransferring it to the app, etc.
Mike (21:32):
Another one for getting around and some of our discussion today is
probably a little bit more Paris based,just because so many more people do make
it to Paris on their trip, is gettingaround Paris, sometimes public transit
isn't the best option for you and youmight want to take a taxi on Uber.
So Uber is good for crosstown tripswhen public transit isn't feasible.
So having that, if you already use thatin your home country, is easy to have.
(21:55):
And then for taxi rides, I'drecommend the G7 taxi app.
And for instance TG7, but G7Taxi is the name of the app.
And this is a good one, particularlyif you want to go to the airport,
because taxis can take special lanesthrough the city and getting out to the
airport and will make it much faster.
They're terrific for booking ahead,so if I'm leaving for the airport at
(22:18):
5:45 the following morning, I can gointo the app, pre-schedule my taxi,
they show up early, let you know thatthey're there, and it's seamless.
It's very, very easy to use.
Annie (22:30):
Yeah, an excellent app.
G7 is an excellent app.
And you could also use Uber, but likeyou said, they can't use the bus lanes.
And for the airport, I avoidUber because there's too many
fights between taxis and Uber.
And I just like, Uber for meis to go cross town, it's not.
Or Bolt, there's a lot of Bolts aswell in Paris and in France in general.
(22:54):
So you could use that app as well.
Mike (22:57):
And I know that another app that you often recommend on the podcast
is The Fork, or Fourchette in French.
And that's a spinoff of TripAdvisor,it's sort of one of their sub-brands.
And they manage restaurant reservationsfor various restaurants in France.
So I don't use it all that often,but it sounds like it's something
(23:17):
that you use more frequently?
Annie (23:18):
I use it because it makes my life easy, but if I know exactly where I want
to go, I'm going to call and I'm going tofind the phone number, call them, reserve.
But if I don't know exactly whereI want to go, if I'm just looking,
I will often look on Google forthe reviews, just to see, because
I don't know these places anymore.
I mean, it's just that because I'mFrench, I don't have, you know...
(23:39):
And if I'm not there to lookat it, I don't have any idea.
So I just look on Google for a few reviewsand then if I want to book, I might
go do it on The Fork or sometimes youcan book directly from Google as well.
Mike (23:51):
Right, that's something that I experienced a lot during this visit was
searching for a restaurant on Google, andthen they already had the button there
to say Reserve, and it made it very, very
Annie (24:00):
Yeah, yeah.
And what's good about these is thatyou can also cancel your reservation
very easily if you need to.
Which, you know, is nice to do.
Don't make a booking thatyou don't show up at.
Mike (24:11):
Right.
Depending on visitor's language abilities,a translation app such as Google
Translate would be quite invaluable.
It's very good at, you can takepictures of things and then it
can translate the signs for you.
Looking at menus, that can be helpfulsometimes for decoding various things.
And some people have their preferredtranslation apps where they can just
pass the phone back and forth andhave a conversation with someone.
(24:34):
I haven't used that for France, butI'm sure that, you know, that is
something that wouldn't be unheardof for certain tourist destinations.
Annie (24:41):
You know, I experienced this when I go to Spain because I can't really speak
Spanish as well as I would like to yet.
But I've never gone toquite the app thing.
I just try it, you know, I just try totell them what I want to tell them, like.
Mike (24:55):
I think with certain language pairings, that works better.
Like, I was traveling in Japan severalyears ago, and they just handed the
phone back and forth, and he wouldspeak into it, and we would speak
into it, and it would provide, like, alittle transcript back and forth, so.
Annie (25:08):
Yeah, yeah.
With Japanese, I can see that.
Yes.
I would be in the same situation.
Mike (25:14):
Giving a plug for you, the VoiceMap app with Annie's tours would
be something to have on your phone.
Yep, so.
Annie (25:20):
They work well but they work best if you download the tours that
you want before you get there, oreven before you get to your hotel,
because hotels sometimes have wimpyWiFi, depending on the hotel, really.
So if you know which ones you want to do,just download them before you get there.
Mike (25:36):
And then the final mobile apps that would be useful for
visitors would be, certain touristattractions have time ticketing
available only through their apps.
So, looking ahead, having an ideaof what you might want to visit
and seeing if there are any specialapps that you should download.
So just this week was the announcementof the app for booking Notre Dame
(25:57):
tickets now that Notre Dame is reopening.
So, you have to go through the app,choose everything through there, make
your reservation, and that's going tobe very much site specific as to where
you want to go, but something that youshould also consider having on your phone.
Annie (26:10):
Yeah.
So every major site will tryto get you to download an app.
They really like that.
But I can't, I don't want tohave a million apps on my phone.
But for Notre Dame, anymore,you don't have a choice.
The app is called CathédraleNotre Dame de Paris in French.
It's a white and blue app.
It exists on both Android and iPhone.
(26:31):
I downloaded it yesterday, which wasthe first day that it was available.
We're recording this in December.
All tickets for December aregone already, but I knew that.
Not for all of December, it's for thefirst half of December, they're gone.
After the 15th, maybe people willbe able to book a few spots, but you
do need the app or you won't get in.
Mike (26:51):
I subscribed to the newsletter from this American expat who lives in Paris.
She has a newslettercalled Secrets of Paris.
She's lived in Paris for nearly 30 yearsand she does really good recap of, like,
what's going on in Paris this month,here are the things that are changing,
here are the things to see and do.
She does meetups forexpats who live in Paris.
One of the things that she said aboutthe Notre Dame, Bookings is that
(27:14):
they're only allowing reservations afew days in advance, they will always
be free, no group tours are going tobe permitted for the first six months.
So there's no way that a touroperator can get you tickets.
You know, particularly those listeningin early 2025, don't try to fall for
any schemes of people promising youspecial tours of Notre Dame because
there's no way that anyone can setit up until the second half of 2025.
Annie (27:35):
No skip the lines.
Don't go for that.
You're not really skippingthe line in France.
Doesn't work.
I mean, you'll skip the ticket line.
The end.
You'll have to go through the other lines.
Mike (27:46):
All right, so I think on the mobile phone front, we're all covered.
Annie (27:50):
I think we're good.
Yep.
Mike (27:51):
What really kicked off my proposal about having this discussion today was
in September, the Authority for PublicTransit and the Parisian area announced
that they were going to be changingthe fare system for all the transport
throughout Paris and the suburbs.
(28:12):
And since so many people coming toParis are relying upon public transit
for getting around, this is a rathersignificant change, so I thought it would
be useful to provide an update so thatit's not a surprise when people show up.
Annie (28:25):
Definitely.
Mike (28:26):
One of the changes that's happened in Paris in the past few
years is they've moved away fromhaving paper tickets to contactless
payment through the Navigo cards.
And in the past six months, theNavigo cards have been extended to
all mobile phones, except for a coupleexceptions with a couple of Androids.
So you can now have your Navigo cardon your iPhone or on your Android
(28:48):
phone, and you can just tap thatat the fare gates to get through.
So providing a little guide forpeople who've not done this before.
For iPhone users, You can go into thewallet app on your iPhone and in the
upper right corner there's a plus sign.
And you'll be given different options ofthings that you can add to your wallet.
(29:09):
You can click on transit card.
And then scroll down toFrance, Paris, Navigo.
And when you click on the Navigo, it willprovide you different types of tickets
that you can load onto your phone.
So we'll discuss what those differentticket types are in a moment and how
you would choose which type of ticketsyou would like to add to your phone.
This works great if everyone in yourparty has their individual iPhones.
(29:31):
You can just go, everyone has their.
Navigo cards on their separate phones.
Every person can just tap themselves inwith whatever fares they've purchased.
However, there are the weird situationsthat you might be traveling with a
nine year old who doesn't have a phone,or with a senior citizen who may not
want to load things on their phone.
So, if you have multiple peoplein your group, what you can
(29:55):
use is the Bonjour RATP app.
And in there, the app lets you createmultiple virtual Navigo cards, so
you could have three or four or five,however many cards you want in there.
You can add the fares to each of thoseindividual cards, and then when you're
at the fare gates, you can tap one personin, they go through, change to the other
(30:16):
virtual card, tap the next person in.
So it's a way to have multiple cardson your phone for those situations.
Because most of the time you're goingto be able to get by with each person
having their own phone, but this wouldbe a way to get if you had other people.
The other option would be that you canget a Navigo Easy Card and Metro Stations.
(30:37):
Costs you 2 euros, and then youcan load fares onto a physical card
that's being tapped at the gate.
Annie (30:42):
Right.
I have several of those because that'swhat you had to do up until now.
So I assume several listenerswill have some Navigo Easy
cards or other Navigo cards.
I'm not sure what all of them willdo, but I know that the Navigo Easy
cards that you already have, you canuse them, and you can actually use
the tickets that you have because Ihave a bunch of tickets left on mine.
(31:06):
You can use them all theway through 2025 at least.
The lady wasn't sure.
She was like, I'm not sureif it'll extend after that.
Mike (31:13):
Yeah, I had heard through December 31st, 2025.
Any pre-existing fares that youhave on your card, you can use up
through 2025, but then that's it.
And then for Android users, I'm notan Android user, so just speaking from
what I could read online, is you caneither use the Bonjour RATP app or the
IDF Mobilité app, which largely work thesame, and you can load tickets on there,
(31:37):
and then you tap your phone at the gates,it loads the fares onto your phone.
And you don't even have to open theapp, it's just stored in your wallet,
and you can just tap through that way.
There are a couple of Android phones,including Google Pixel and Huawei phones,
that aren't compatible with the ticketing.
And so, in this case, you would haveto just get your Navigo Easy card and a
metro station to load the fares onto that.
Annie (31:58):
Yes, and my husband's a nerd and he really wanted it to
work on his Google phone and fail.
Mike (32:06):
Yeah.
Annie (32:07):
I was like, well, don't get a Google phone, you fool.
Mike (32:12):
Alright, so now the important thing, now that you have the ability
to add fares onto your phone, eitherthrough the Apple Wallet or through
the Bonjour RATP app, is a questionof what fares can you load on there.
So, the fare system for the ParisMetro, RER, and Transilien network,
and buses, and trams has nowchanged to a flat rate ticketing
(32:34):
price that's independent of any...
Annie (32:37):
Zone.
Mike (32:38):
...other factors.
So, in the past, there were fivegeographic zones, there were various
discount schemes based on one thing oranother, different prices based on type
of transport, whether you're buyingone ticket or ten tickets at a time,
if you had a monthly pass, and more.
So, the RATP was estimating thatthere were over 50,000 different
fare possibilities within thegreater Ile de France region based
(33:01):
on all these different factors.
And it was just incredibly complicated.
And it was also a little bitunequal for people who lived in
the suburbs coming into the city.
The price of transit was prohibitivelymore expensive than people living
within Paris and traveling within Paris.
So they're also seeking to equalizethe price burden for people within
(33:22):
Paris and outside the Paris region whoare relying upon coming into Paris.
Annie (33:26):
Right, so IDF is Ile de France.
It's the region.
So it's a much smaller regionthan say Aquitaine or Occitanie,
but it is its own region.
Mike (33:38):
So, the fare changes that they are implementing will result in an increase
in transit prices for visitors of about10-25 percent per ticket for most trips.
So if you're traveling just withincentral Paris, it's going to
be a little bit more expensive.
But overall, Paris transit is enormouslyless expensive than other European cities.
(33:59):
So it's still a very good deal.
But the new pricing applies to theentire region, and so transit costs
will actually drop by half for some ofthe places you might be going, so if
you're going to Disneyland, Versailles,Fontainebleau, places that were previously
much further out, they've capped the faresa few years ago, so I think it was like
five and a half euros was the maximumfare within the Ile de France region.
(34:23):
Well, now it'll be the same priceas if you're just going within
Paris, say from Notre Dame to theLouvre, you know, very short trip.
It's going to be the same priceif you're going all the way across
the region, so that's going to be asignificant cost savings for visitors.
Annie (34:40):
So it's 2.50, 2.50 euros for now, no matter where you're
going in the Ile de France.
Mike (34:47):
For Metro, RER and Transilien trains.
So this is something that we werediscussing a little bit before as
we were preparing the show, as the,transit authorities are using a
strange nomenclature that makes ita little bit confusing for visitors.
So they have this 2.50 euroticket for Metro, RER, and
(35:07):
what they say is the train.
Well, more specifically, the train thatit's valid for are the Transilien commuter
trains, and those are trains that goout into the suburbs that may sort of
go out a little bit further than whatthe RER trains are, but they're still
considered trains for within the region.
And you can recognize whichlines you can use the train.
(35:33):
RER metro tickets on.
Because metro lines all have anumber, currently 1 through 14.
They're going to be in the next fewyears opening lines 15 through 18.
So numbered lines in a circle witha color, those are metro lines.
And then there are lettered lines that arein a square with a color and those are A,
B, C, D, E, which are RER or Transilienwhich are H, J, K, L, N, P, R, U, V.
(35:59):
So if you're boarding a rail type oftrain that has a circle with a number or
a square with a letter, you can use this2 euro 50 ticket on any of those lines.
And Annie was speaking to, youmentioned that you called the RATP
the other day and said, Oh, I caneven take this to Fontainebleau.
And she said, yes, you cantake it to Fontainebleau.
(36:21):
The trick is that there areTransilien trains, which it's line
T, I believe, that goes out there.
You can use your 2 euro 50 ticket toget all the way out to Fontainebleau,
Annie (36:31):
On the T.
Mike (36:32):
Yes, but there are also regional trains, the TER trains that go out there,
and that is not part of this ticketingsystem, so just make sure that if you're
boarding a train with your 2 euro 50ticket, that it's a circle with a number
or a square with a letter and your fareis valid for those means of transport.
Annie (36:50):
That's an excellent point, because I was a little bit confused,
I was like, you can take thetrain like that's a SNCF train.
How does that work?
Mike (36:59):
Right.
I think this is a legacy.
When I lived in Paris eight yearsago, they were trying to define
all the train means of transportin the area as just The Train.
Whether it was a metro or anRER or a Transilien, they just
wanted to call it The Train.
Well, it seems like they've nowcalled the Transilien, The Train, but
then it does get confusing becausethere are so many other train means
(37:22):
of transport throughout France.
And so if it's a OuiGo or a inOUI oranother type of TGV or a TER, the regional
trains, this is not valid for those.
So it's only for the commuterlines and the suburban lines and
the metro lines within Paris.
Annie (37:41):
But it also means that if you are just like you mentioned, if you're
just going two metro stops over, you payexactly the same price as if you were
going between Versailles and Disneyland.
You know, which is, it's going totake you an hour, two hours almost.
So yeah, it seems weird, but it'sbetter for French people because
(38:04):
it'll be cheaper for the peoplewho live in the suburban areas.
Mike (38:07):
But even in my experience living in Paris previously, is that if I wanted
to go to Versailles, if I wanted togo to Disneyland, if I wanted to go to
Fontainebleau, it became a challengegoing into a station and then having to
buy a special ticket that was a differentprice than everything else and having to
queue at a ticketing machine and all that.
This eliminates all those hasslesthat you previously would have.
Annie (38:30):
And it used to be that you couldn't add your train to Versailles
to your Navigo card, but now you can.
I mean, it'll just be the same ticket.
Mike (38:39):
Yeah.
Annie (38:39):
It's silly for me to say you can't, because it'll be the
same ticket, so it won't matter.
Mike (38:43):
Right.
The only exception with the trains isthat if you want to access the airports,
there will now be a special airportaccess ticket, and that's 13 euros.
And so instead of the 2.50 flat ratefor the overall region on train means of
transport, if you want to take Orly viaMetro Line 14 or get to Orly via the Orly
(39:06):
Val train, which connects the RERB, orif you want to go to Charles de Gaulle
Airport via RERB, if you're exitingat the airport, it will be 13 euros.
So you will need to add that 13euro airport access ticket to your
virtual wallet or to your Navigo card.
Annie (39:21):
So I think the Orly Val might be more expensive by a couple of euros.
Mike (39:26):
No I checked, all airport means are going to be 13 euros.
Annie (39:30):
I think eventually they will do away with the Orly Val, I think
eventually they want people, becauseLine 14 goes there now, of the metro,
so most people will just take Line 14.
And it's very good, veryfast, very clean, very good.
Mike (39:44):
That's it for the train system.
The other part of the fare changesin Paris is that there is now a
cheaper ticket for travel on busesor trams in the greater Paris region.
So there are many, many bus linesthroughout Paris and the suburbs.
And about a dozen different tramlines that run on the periphery
(40:07):
of Paris and out into the suburbs.
And if you're taking the bus ortram anywhere in the Paris region,
then it's a 2 euro flat rate.
So it's cheaper than taking ametro in RER or a Transilien train.
So I think this lower price isto try to encourage some of these
other surface means of transport.
I think a lot of people may haveavoided doing that in the past, but...
Annie (40:29):
It's a little cheaper now...
Mike (40:30):
Yeah, with Google Maps or some of these other transit mapping
things, if they're giving you busoptions, it's a wonderful experience.
It's a great way to seethe city from up above.
You get to go through some differentneighborhoods that normally, if you're
underground, you wouldn't get to see.
So I find it kind of fun to take thebus and the tram in different places.
Annie (40:49):
The only problem with that is that it used to be that it was the
exact same metro ticket that you tookeither on the bus or on the metro.
Now they're different.
So I'm going to have to loadbus tickets on my Navigo card,
whereas I could just use up mytickets in the same way everywhere.
(41:09):
So, just remember that if you planon taking the bus or the tram, metro
tickets will not be valid at all.
Even though they're moreexpensive, so I told them, I
said, but it's more expensive.
What do you care, if the personwants to pay 50 cents more, let them?
And she's like, no, they're not valid,you will get a ticket if they catch you,
(41:31):
with, you know, a metro ticket on the bus.
Okay.
Mike (41:35):
Yeah, and so on the topic of transfers is you can transfer among
bus and tram lines for 90 minutes.
So if you're, you know, you can continuegoing from one bus to another bus
to a tram, to a different tram, toanother bus over a 90 minute period.
And you'll continue to be ableto transfer for 90 minutes.
With the train, RER metro ticket, you havetwo hours, during which you can use that
(41:59):
same ticket to continue making transfers.
But you can't, as you said, transfer fromthe bus tram ticket to a metro RER train
ticket without using a brand new ticket.
Annie (42:11):
Right.
So for people who think they wantto try the bus or the tram, but the
tram would only be if you're in theperiphery, but even if you're in central
Paris, if you want to use the bus,then you have to buy a few bus tickets.
Add your Navigo card.
Mike (42:28):
You had also brought up the topic of reduced fares.
I had a little bit of difficultyfinding information about reduced fares.
They've had different prices in the past.
A lot of them are really set asidefor people who live in the Paris
region and who have already likemonthly passes or annual passes.
So I think this is a topic thatwon't be relevant to a lot of people.
(42:50):
The one that will pop up is that theydo list discount fares on the website
and basically it's half the price.
So 1.25 for the train ticketsor 1 euro for the bus tickets.
And that would be for children fromfour through nine years old inclusive.
So if you have a four year old, if youhave a nine year old, they can get a
(43:11):
half price ticket and we can't see yeton the Navigo pages how this will work.
But currently, with the way that the oldtickets work, if you're in your wallet
and you're adding a full fare ticket,you can just choose a full fare ticket.
You could, in this case, choose a reducedfare ticket for your child and then tap
(43:33):
them in using the reduced fare ticket.
But just make sure not to purchasereduced fare tickets for yourself
because they do have ticket controlsin stations and on buses and if
you're using a reduced fare ticket foryourself and you're not eligible for
that then you're going to get a fine.
Annie (43:49):
Yes.
And the enforcement inParis is not friendly, okay?
They will ask you to pay thefine immediately on the spot.
And people get mad and, but veryoften it's people who they bought
the cheapest ticket they could findon a machine because they figured
it would open the gates, and thenthey get caught and then they just.
(44:10):
It wasn't my fault!
Mike (44:11):
And they've announced that they're going to step up
enforcement of fare controls nowthat they're changing the system.
So they're going to have even moreticket controls in the future.
So don't put yourself in a situation justin order to save a euro here and there.
Annie (44:25):
And that's another reason why you should use your app to have your
tickets on, because when people used tohave paper tickets, they sometimes got
off the train and threw out the ticketand then didn't realize that they needed
it until they were at the surface.
So like, just because you'veexited the train didn't mean you
didn't need the ticket anymore.
(44:46):
There might be people controlling,you know, 200 meters further
before you are on the street.
But if you are using the app,then you have them in your pocket.
Mike (44:56):
And then the final topic on the evolution of the fares
in Paris are special passes.
And so this is the Navigo Daily pass,the Navigo Jour, the Paris Visite Pass,
and then one other that I will address.
So the Navigo Day pass is going to be12 euros, and that will allow access to
every mode of transport from 12:01 amto 11:59 pm except for airport access.
(45:23):
So you can pay 12 euros and then thatwill let you be on a train and a tram and
a bus and a metro and an RER, whateveryou want throughout the day for 12 euros.
It's a great option if you're takingmore than five total trips in one day
or if you just don't want to reallythink about your tickets all that much.
So you would buy it late in the evening,it would then activate for the following
(45:46):
day, and then you can just use thatdaily pass for 12 euros for the 24 hour
period from 12:01 am until 11:59 pm.
So that's one option for visitors.
Annie (45:58):
That's a good option, yeah..
Mike (45:59):
Yeah, the other option is the Paris Visite Pass, and this pass lets you choose
one, two, three, or five days of validity.
It starts at about 30 euros per day, andthen each day gets a little bit cheaper.
So if you were to buy a five-daypass, it's about 75 euros, I believe.
It gets you unlimited use oftransport, including airport access.
(46:19):
And it gets you discounts for a fewtourist sites, but it really, it's like
a few euros off at the Musée Grévin,it's a few euros off at the Château
de Vincennes, and things like that.
Annie (46:31):
Places where people don't go very much.
Mike (46:33):
Yeah, I tend to find the Paris Visite Pass to not be a very good deal.
The price has gone up quite a bitfrom what it used to be, so I think
that it's probably one to avoid.
You can maybe do a little bit ofresearch and figure out if it works for
your specific situation, but I thinkon the whole, the best situation is
either buying your individual dailytickets or the Navigo Jour Day Pass.
Annie (46:54):
Agreed.
Mike (46:54):
And as you're looking at fares, there's going to be another
one called Navigo Liberté Plus, andthis is something that is reserved
for locals, so it's not going to beof interest for the regular tourist.
It's basically, you sign up, you add yourbank account to your Navigo account, and
then they charge you at the end of themonth for all the trips you've taken.
(47:14):
It cuts 20 percent off of your travelcost, so it may come across your, as
you're doing your research, trying toset up things, you may see something
about the Navigo Liberté Plus.
Just ignore it because basically youhave to be a local and use a French
bank account to link everything.
So just ignore that.
Annie (47:30):
Right, yeah.
Because there are locals who willuse the yearly Navigo or the Navigo,
which will still exist, I think.
But if you only taketransportation on occasion, this
Liberté Plus is a good deal.
Mike (47:42):
Right.
So, that's it for our main topics,and then you had asked me also
what other things I found newin France during this visit.
So, in discussing with my husband, wecame up with a couple of just funny little
things that may, you know, help one ortwo or three of your listeners out there.
One of the things is for those of youwho've competed in sporting events in
France in the past, such as a runningrace or a triathlon, it used to be...
Annie (48:05):
That's right, it's changed.
Mike (48:06):
It used to be you had to get a doctor's note
approving your participation.
Your doctor had to write this lettersaying that you've suffered from no
physical ailments and that you are ableto compete in this event and so forth.
That one changed in the middle ofthis year with a new online tool
called the Parcours PréventionSanté, the Health Prevention Pathway.
(48:27):
And it's basically a quick littlefive minute thing that you do online.
They do a little video about differentexercise related health topics.
They give you a couple little quizquestions, and then that generates a
certificate for you that you present whenyou're competing in this athletic event.
So it's sort of removed one ofthose like little annoyances.
You still have to do something, butyou don't have to go get special
(48:48):
paperwork from your doctor andhave all this stuff signed off on.
Annie (48:51):
Yeah, French doctors complained bitterly about this
because people would come in to geta certificate for their kid, but then
would also bring up this and this.
And so, so the doctor wouldsay, Oh, this is a fast visit.
You know, this is a 12 year oldwho's going to sign up for soccer,
you know, five minutes is fine.
But then the mom or the dad wouldjust bring up this and this and
(49:12):
this, and they ended up spending alot of time on these minor things.
And so they just, they, yeah, last, lasttime there was a negotiation about the,
how much you pay for doctor's visit,they said no more certificates for health
stuff, like, unless the person, I mean,if you're signing up for if you've had
a health issue, that's different, but...
Mike (49:33):
Another thing that was, of note that may be interesting to some
visitors, is just the way in whichtraffic flows in Paris and outside
of Paris has changed quite a bit.
In Paris, bikes have become a much biggerpart of life, and so there are bike
lanes, some different street closuresto make things available only to bikes,
such as the Rue de Rivoli in Paris.
(49:54):
And so that will make things a little bitmore tricky as you're trying to navigate,
because places where there might have beenbuses before, or where there might have
been taxis, it's a little bit, you have tosort of work around some of these changes
that have happened with the traffic flow.
But as I drove outside of Paris andspent a bit of time in the countryside,
different cities and even small towns outin very rural areas have made changes to
(50:16):
the way traffic flows in order to slowdown traffic and to make things safer.
When I lived in France 30 years ago asa university student, the death toll on
French roads was enormously high and ithas dropped precipitously because a lot
of different things have been implemented.
So as I was driving into small towns,there would be little bump outs that
force you to drive around a planterand then driving around another
(50:39):
planter and then people in the oppositedirection had to stop themselves
in order to go around in their way.
So there are a lot of different things
Annie (50:47):
To slow people down, yeah.
Mike (50:48):
Yeah to keep people more alert and being more mindful
of what the speeds were.
And you often talk aboutthe speed cameras, and those
are obviously everywhere.
So there are a lot of things that, youknow, as a driver, you might find, oh,
wait a minute, why are they doing this?
And it's out of the interest oftrying to slow down traffic and
make things safer for people.
Annie (51:07):
Yeah, my village went to 30 kilometers per
hour in much of the village.
And it's it feels really really slow.
But I try to stick to itbecause it's for good reason.
There are cats crossing the street.
Even if there's no people, I don't,I do not want to crush a cat, okay?
(51:27):
So I'd rather go a littleslower and yeah, be done.
Yeah.
Mike (51:32):
Final two observations.
One rather silly is that Inoticed that cocktail menus
have taken the country by storm.
When we lived in Paris eightyears ago, it was rather rare to
find a cocktail menu anywhere.
You might be able to get anaperitif here and there, a Kir
Royal or something like that.
But every restaurant in Paris,every restaurant in Angers, every
restaurant in the small town wheremy friends live in the suburbs of
(51:54):
La Rochelle has a cocktail menu.
And so that's just afunny observation that
Annie (51:59):
Yes.
Mike (51:59):
you can get all these spritzes and Palomas and special gin and tonics
and all the bespoke thing of thesmall restaurant in the small town.
Annie (52:10):
Yeah.
And French people aredrinking less and less wine.
It's surprising, if you see thecurve, it's like, it's like,
we're not drinking any wine.
And wine consumption went up alittle bit during the pandemic.
I think it was becauseof stress or whatever.
And since the pandemic is goingdown steadily, but people do drink
cocktails and things like that.
Mike (52:29):
And the final observation I have is sort of the overarching theme of our
discussion today is, this is an attemptto try to catch up on a lot of the
logistics issues of the past 10 years.
You know, things that haveevolved over the time that
you've been doing the podcast.
But despite all the information that'sout there, everything that we've talked
about today, there's going to be hiccups.
And so we can try to be themasters of logistics, but sometimes
(52:50):
things won't work out as planned.
And so we just need to make sure thatwe are as flexible as possible and
understanding of the changes that pop up.
I tried to go to the Musée deCluny one day that it was open.
I showed up and there's a sign infront saying, Oh, we're closed today.
And I heard someone walk by and saysomething about grève, you know, a strike.
And so there is unexpectedly a strike.
(53:11):
I wanted to go out into the suburbsto visit the Cité Internationale de la
Langue Française, a special museum aboutthe history of the French language.
I planned weeks ahead.
I had everything all laid out.
I, sort of scoped out the tickets.
And then the night before, I wasjust confirming the operating hours
and there was a special banner onthere saying, Oh, we're going to
be closed this week, exceptionally,because we have some foreign
(53:32):
dignitaries who are visiting, so...
Annie (53:34):
And I want to get the guy who started it on the podcast.
I keep forgetting to reach out to him.
But I would like to get him becausethis is an interesting place, right,
language kind of displays, yeah.
Mike (53:47):
And during this trip, I went out to Chartre for the first time,
because I wanted to visit the cathedral.
I was looking at a website thatwas called cathedrale-chartres.org,
to get all my information.
And so I planned what I was going todo tour wise, audio guide, all those
different things, And then it turnsout there's a different website that's
run by The National Center of Monumentsthat's called chartres-cathedrale.fr,
(54:11):
and it also has information, but theinformation isn't completely in sync.
One is run by the cathedral, and oneis run by The National Center that is
in charge of the national cathedrals.
And the information didn't quite lineup about when tours available, when you
could visit the treasury, the cryptsabout Visio guides and stuff like that.
(54:32):
So you can try your best, butsometimes you just have to be
flexible and understand that youcan't have perfect information.
Annie (54:40):
Yes, yes.
And don't try to planeverything to the minute.
You'll drive yourself crazy with that.
Wow, that was a lot of information.
Mike, you're awesome.
You did a lot of research for this.
I did a little bit, but you did a lot.
There's some things you explained that Iwas like, Oh, I wasn't sure about that.
So thank you so much.
That's really wonderful.
And I'm sorry we didn't havetime to talk about your trip.
(55:02):
You went to lot of fun places.
Let's see...
Mike (55:05):
In Paris for the first time.
I visited the Chateau Vincennes and Iwent out to Chartres for the first time.
What else did I say?
Oh, we visited the new Collection Pinot,which is a new museum near Les Halles.
And in Angers, I went to a Michelinstarred restaurant and La Rochelle,
visited some things with friendsin the area for the first time.
(55:26):
So it was a nice opportunity tocatch up on some new things and
see some old things that, you know,are always part of the itinerary.
Annie (55:35):
Fantastic.
Thank you so much, Mike.
And, uh, please come back on the podcast.
Hopefully not in eight years.
Certainly.
Thank you, Annie.
Merci beaucoup.
Merci.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
(55:55):
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
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