March 23, 2025 • 49 mins
Ever wondered how to plan a leisurely trip to France? In "How to Plan a Leisurely Trip to France with Carol Handel," host Annie Sargent explores the art of slow travel with guest Carol Handel from Sydney, Australia. Together, they dive into the joys of taking your time to explore France's charming destinations.
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Carol shares her journey from meticulous trip planning to creating her blog, French Views. She offers insights into selecting the perfect locations for a week-long stay, allowing travelers to immerse themselves in local culture. Discover tips for cycling through picturesque landscapes like Provence and the Pyrenees, and learn how to bring your own bike for a familiar, reliable ride.
Annie and Carol discuss the thrill of experiencing the Tour de France in person. Carol provides practical advice on finding the best viewing spots and enjoying local festivities. They also delve into the logistics of traveling with bikes, including renting a van and finding accommodations with essential amenities.
For those who love Paris, Carol reveals her favorite arrondissements and hidden gems. Her blog features detailed guides, offering a unique perspective on the city's allure. Throughout the episode, Annie and Carol emphasize the importance of slow travel, encouraging listeners to savor each experience and connect with France's culture and people.
Join Annie and Carol as they explore the hidden gems of France and the art of slow travel. Whether you're a seasoned traveler or planning your first trip, this episode offers valuable insights and inspiration. Subscribe to Join Us in France for more immersive travel experiences and tips on making the most of your French adventure.
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
This is Join Us in France, episode538, cinq cent trente-huit.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty culture and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Carol Handel about how to
plan a leisurely trip to France.
(00:39):
Carol shares her insights on startinga blog, selecting charming places to
visit, and the joys of slow travel.
Whether you're curious about thebest cycling route, enjoying French
markets, or practical tips for watchingthe Tour de France, this episode
is packed with valuable advice forplanning your next French adventure.
(00:59):
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that on myboutique: JoinUsinFrance.com/boutique.
(01:21):
And remember, Patreon supporters get thepodcast ad-free and as soon as it's ready.
Click on the link in the show notesto enjoy this Patreon reward for
as little as $3 per month For themagazine part of the podcast, after
my chat with Carol today, I'll discusssome fun walks you can take in Paris,
for those of you who like to roam.
(01:52):
Bonjour, Carol Handel, andwelcome to Join us in France.
And bonsoir, Annie, from Sydney.
It's seven o'clock in the evening here.
Very good.
Lovely to talk to you todayabout your blog and about how to
plan a leisurely trip in France.
So tell me about this blog thatyou started and why you decided
(02:17):
to start a blog about France.
Yeah, thank you, Annie.
So, I guess back in 2009, my husbandChris and I, took a long trip to France,
and I spent a lot of time researching,planning out our trip that was going
to take between three and six months.
And it was very difficultto find all the information.
(02:39):
So I made a lot of notes as Iwent and then that accumulated
into another long trip in 2015.
And then we thought, well, maybe I shoulddo something with this information.
Maybe I thought of about an e-bookand then e-books kind of came and
went and then it was about, well,what a blog post or a website, and
(03:02):
I kept looking at it and thinking,oh, it's too hard or the technical.
Then COVID came along and I guessI got presented with an opportunity
and also there were differentplatforms that had evolved.
So I chose a platform which isSquarespace and it was quite easy for
me, and I thought well I'll just dothis and I'll just record our past
(03:24):
trips, and you know, throw out someinformation and just see how I go.
And I guess it's evolved fromthere, in that I've also invited
people to be like guest writers.
I've thrown some interview questionsto them and they provided their photos
and just information, I suppose,to locally, here in Australia,
little markets that we've been to.
(03:45):
Right, so it's kind of like whatI do with Join Us, except in
a blog form, yeah, fantastic.
So, tell me about your trips and tell meabout why you enjoy traveling to France.
When was your last tripto France, for instance?
June - July 2024.
Alright.
Yeah so we hadn't been for a fewyears, for the obvious reasons of
(04:09):
COVID and then just getting back intothe rhythm of planning a longer trip.
Coming from Australia, it's, you know, forus we needed to be decent length of time
to, you know, offset that large airfareand also the long journey that it takes.
(04:29):
So, we started planning for that tripabout 12 months out, coming up with a
bit of an itinerary, places that we'vebeen to before that we'd like to revisit.
So yeah, we've sort of built up thistrip with mainly some one week stays
and then a few shorter stays in between.
So it was five weeks in total.
(04:50):
So you normally spend a week in eacharea that you're going to visit?
If we can now, because we've workedout that we'd like to be settled
into kind of our own place wherewe could have, you know, a kitchen,
washing machine, a parking area.
You know, a small town or a villagewhere we've got some facilities, and
(05:13):
we just like to try and slow down thepace and just move out from there.
And you stay how longin each of these places?
Well, if we can a week, but sometimesthat doesn't always work out.
And it depends on the type ofaccommodation that you can find.
If we can find somewhere that is,you know, we've got our own, that's
(05:34):
great, but sometimes if it's aB&B, we may not stay for as long,
it really just depends, Annie.
But a week is a really goodopportunity to really get to know
an area, that's what we find.
Right.
Right.
And how do you select theplaces where you're going to go?
Do you go, I mean,like, do you read books?
(05:56):
Do you read websites?
Do you, I suppose you listen toJoin Us in France a little bit too.
How do you decide?
Yeah, so look, a lot ofresearch that goes into that.
Definitely your blog posts, your podcast,lots of other information like that.
We watch YouTube videos,we've watched movies.
I read a lot of books about France,just getting little snippets of
(06:19):
ideas of what we would like to do.
We do like to do some cycling.
So if possible, we like to beable to take our bikes and we do
like to be able to go to areaswhere we can both do some cycling.
Oh, so you bring yourbikes from Australia?
That's correct, yes.
(06:39):
We've done it on a number of occasions.
So far, my husband took hison the first trip in 2009.
And then since then we've tried totake ours together, and so I let him
go on his adventures up mountains,but we do a lot of lovely countryside.
Very nice.
Is there a reason why you don'tjust rent a bike in France?
(07:02):
Over the years, I'velooked at various methods.
And I think what we've worked outis that if because we like to move
on to different regions and not justbe there in like one regional, one
accommodation for the full time, wehave seen that it could be quite pricey.
Plus, there is that confidence in yourown bike, especially for Chris, because
(07:27):
he's riding up mountains, and you wantto know that the, you know, the machine
that you're riding on top of it is, youknow, something that you can really,
really believe in, in that situation.
Wow.
So that must add to the complication.
I mean, if you've done it severaltimes, you know how by now.
Did you write a blog post about that?
(07:48):
I've got some information thereabout cycling, just some general
bits and pieces that we've done.
But what we've come about is that weactually fly with British Airways.
British Airways will allow us to bringour bicycles in a hard case box, and that
(08:08):
protects the bike, and it is a set price.
It's not a per kilo price.
So it actually works out quitecost effective to do it that way.
But then obviously we do have to then hirea van because we're not the cyclists that
cycle with panniers from place to place.
We are driving around and then wetake our bikes out as part of the
(08:32):
trip, it's not all consuming cycling.
So we've mentioned your blog, butwe didn't say what it's called.
It's called French Views, and so it'sfrenchviews.com.au is where you can find.
Yeah, where you can find it.
And on your front page, I see thatyou have a post about the Palais Idéal
(08:52):
du Facteur Cheval, which we've talkedabout on the podcast not too long ago.
You talk about Grignan in theDrĂ´me, the funicular to the
Fourvière, which is great.
Yeah.
So a lot of little snippets of thingsthat you do in France, which I think
is, really for people who like to readbecause there are people who enjoy
(09:13):
the podcast, which, you know, Join Usin France is a podcast and a website.
And I tried to make the blogposts as engaging as possible,
but I'm not a blogger per se,you know, I'm more of a talker.
Yes.
There are people who prefer to read.
Yes.
(09:33):
And I found that.
I found that I've hadquite a bit of interest.
People have reached out to me and thankedme and said it was very entertaining.
Which, you know, I'm really justdoing this out of a love of France
and our enjoyment of traveling there.
It's just sharing the experience andI guess showing people, you know, what
(09:53):
we've done just with a little bit ofresearch, and anyone really can do this
if you're willing to put in a littlebit of effort, and go off the beaten
track, you can find these nice placesand not just stick to the typical...
you know, that everybody goes to places.
Right.
Yeah.
And so on a practical level,how do you plan your trip?
(10:15):
Like, do you use an app?
Do you use a software?
Do you use, I don't know,an Excel sheet, a Word file?
How do you do it?
Yeah, so I guess it's very basic, really.
Yeah, just Word docsand I keep a calendar.
We keep a bit of a, like, we put thedates in where we're going and where we'll
stay, making sure that they all flow on.
(10:37):
And then we use it, we've used anExcel spreadsheet before as well.
It's just gathering all theinformation in the beginning.
And doing a lot of research and a lotlike what interests us, and then nutting
it down to, let's choose these places.
Then doing some research into like,weather, accommodation, as I said,
(10:58):
we've got a bit of criteria because wedo like to try to be self-sufficient,
so that we can then experience markets,go and buy fresh produce, you know,
try to interact with the people at themarkets and have that experience as well.
The B&Bs are great and we've alsohad some wonderful meals at some of
(11:21):
those table d'hĂ´te, where, you know,you can share that experience with
people having meal in the host's home.
Yeah, so there's so many differentexperiences, but just bringing it all
together into sort of one document thatthen, you know, I can keep track of it
and make sure that we've got all thecorrectly and we haven't made a mistake.
(11:45):
But basically, I'm doing this all, youknow, myself from booking the flights and
accommodation, and researching, even downto some special restaurants that we've
gone to on the last trip, particularly.
Right, have you found that you needto reserve those restaurants in
advance or can you do that just, youknow, when you arrive or whatever?
(12:09):
Hmm.
To be honest, I think in past trips,we've mainly just winged it, if you like.
Sometimes that doesn't always work though.
There has been times whenwe've been turned away.
I mean, we've learned a little bit aboutthe timing, the French timing of meals.
But in the last trip, there were afew places that we have booked in
(12:31):
advance, then there's some others thathave just come our way, which have
been absolutely wonderful experiences.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it just depends on whatyou're looking for, I think.
And some of the places we'vebeen to have been very small.
And therefore, if you wanted a particularday to fit in with your itinerary,
you do need to probably have a lookat that in as much advance as you can.
(12:55):
Yes, and also you never know, theymight be closed that day and you
just, you wouldn't know unless you tryto reserve and then they, oh, we're
closed that day for whatever reason.
You know, these are very small businesses.
There's this lady in thevillage next to mine.
She has a small Ă©picerie.
She sells beautiful cheeses, a fewwines, some fruits and vegetables.
(13:19):
She has some tables up front.
Anyway, it's a lovely little placeand she just procures things locally.
So it's all locally produced things.
But she's open or closed at very odd timesbecause she's a young mom and so you never
know if it's going to be open or closed.
Places like that, I mean, she doesn'toffer food, but places like that,
(13:43):
if it's just a mom and pop shop,sometimes it's best to call them
or send an email to make sure thatthey're going to be open at that time.
Absolutely.
How do you decide how longto stay in a given place?
Because one of the problems with planninga trip, based on what you read, what you
hear is that there are a lot of bloggerswho are very good at hyping a place.
(14:07):
For instance the  PalaisIdéal du Facteur Cheval,
well, that's a two three hour experience.
Is there enough to do around thereto spend a week, is the question.
How do you figure out where youcan spend just two days and where
you're going to spend a week?
I think that this last trip,majority of it we were looking
(14:28):
at in terms of cycling, Annie.
So, you know, we arrived in Lyon andwe were only there for a couple of
days and we were staying in a hotel.
Certainly no cycling there, but wewere just zoned in on, you know,
having a look at the city, we focusedon the silk tour that was really
interesting, and obviously the food.
(14:49):
But then the next stop was Provence,and we knew that even a week is not
enough, because we've been before.
And so the cycling wasthe main thrust of that.
But obviously we then did some otherbits and pieces around there as well.
There is so much, if you startlooking into an area, realistically
there is so much that you can do.
(15:11):
If it's hot or if it's cold or if it'sraining, you know, but just trying
to make it go around market days.
A French market is a great place to go.
There are plenty on every dayof the week and, you know, they
could just be within 30 minutesof the place where you're staying.
There could be 10 different places to go.
So I just think that, yeah, some placeswe could stay easily for two weeks and
(15:37):
have, you know, more than enough to do.
But then other places, likewe went down to the Pyrenees.
We've been there for a good few times,but we went there specifically for the
Tour de France last year, and actuallyjust for a particular couple of stages.
So we were based in the area, wefocused on the Tour de France,
(15:59):
we had a bit of cycling ourselvesand we just had an enjoyable time.
It really just depends.
So if you have your bikes withyou, you mentioned a van, so
you rent a vehicle large enoughto keep your bikes in the van?
Is that how it works?
Yeah, that's... that's correct, Annie.
So not always easy because oftenwhen you're renting a vehicle, you
(16:24):
can rent a particular of vehicle,but you can't be very specific.
And so you take a chance.
We do all the measurements.
So we know that we're arriving with twosuitcases and two hard case bike boxes.
As long as we can get to the first venueand then we unpack the bikes and assemble
(16:46):
them, but the idea is to try to keepeverything together in the van so that
we can be flexible and just, you know,go for a drive and pull out the bikes.
We're obviously leaving outthe suitcases until it's time
to move on to the next place.
It does become a bit more expensivethan a small vehicle, obviously,
and just driving around the place.
(17:08):
And what rental agencieshave you had good luck with?
Well, the one that we've beenusing mostly in the last few
years is called Auto Europe.
They have variousagencies around the world.
We've used them inFrance, I think in the UK.
And also, we've had acouple of trips to Hawaii.
So we've used the same company.
(17:28):
Yeah, you can just use various locations.
They outsource to the differentactual rental company.
Because Auto Europe iskind of an aggregator.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
So, it just depends on the price and thetype of vehicle that you are choosing.
Vans are not as easy because sometimeswhen they say van, it's actually a very
(17:52):
small, like, SUV and you can't reallyfit all of our luggage into that.
So, yeah.
Yeah, that's a problem.
We had the same issue in the U.S. Wewanted something big enough for four
people and a wheelchair and our luggage.
And they wanted to give us a suburban.
So that's a massive car, but youcan't fit four people comfortably
(18:14):
and a wheelchair and luggage.
We requested a van.
We just want a, just a simplefamily van where we can put the
seats down and we have more room.
They tend to be morespace efficient, I think.
Exactly.
Yeah, you worry about your stuffgetting stolen in your van like
when you're sleeping, or you parksomewhere and you leave your bikes and
(18:36):
your stuff, do you worry about that?
I guess mostly we haven't, we'venever had an issue, touch wood.
I guess if we're staying in accommodation,we've left the majority of our things
there, and we may put our bikes in thevan and then drive to a certain place
and then go cycling, you know, so thenwe've got the bikes out of the van.
(18:56):
But yeah, we may have someother things in the van.
Like Chris, I've mentioned to youis a photographer and so he'll often
have his photography gear with us.
Oh, wow!
And he's not carrying a big heavycameras when we're out and about on
the bikes, but we might bring thebikes back to the van and then we'll
go off and he'll take some, you know,photos and... yeah, so touch wood.
(19:21):
No, no problem so far.
But obviously we are cautious.
We do lock up and we do try to makesure that things aren't obvious when
you're looking through the window.
You know, it's, it hasn'treally been a problem
.Yeah, I don't think France has big problem with cars getting broken into,
especially of late, but you never know.
(19:43):
I mean, there are people, I'masking because I know there are
people who are going to think,Oh no, no, no, you can't do that.
Your stuff's going to begone when you come back.
Yeah.
Well, after numerous trips so far,we haven't had any issues at all.
Yeah, that's good to know.
What are your favorite placesto go cycling and visiting
(20:06):
and spending a leisurely time?
Well, I guess first up,I'll have to say Provence.
We tend to visit in June, July, and thelast visit we started off in June and
we headed to much straight to Provencebecause we obviously, we don't really
like cycling when it's too hot either.
We tend to try and hit off early, makethe most of that morning and then get
(20:30):
back and, you know, relax, go sightseeor hop in, you know, in the pool.
So, Provence obviously allowsthat kind of, it's got a
bit of a mixture of cycling.
There's things that I can do and thenChris could go and conquer Mont Ventoux
and, you know, some other places.
So that's always been,you know, a bit of a hit.
(20:53):
Also, I mean, we have donesome cycling in the Pyrenees.
Again, me, you know, something moresimple, but Chris is, there's numerous
places in the Pyrenees where you can,you know, go and ride up a mountain.
We've also, this time, we spentsome time in Gascony, the Gers,
which was a bit more rolling hill.
(21:14):
We had never been there before.
It was very hot by the time we got therein July, but well worth all the beautiful
sunflowers, and the vineyards andlittle villages to cycle around as well.
The Gers is beautiful andit's, yeah, it's not very long,
steep hills, but it's hilly.
(21:35):
It's not flat.
Yeah.
Hillier than I thought it was going to be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've taken my ownbike to The Gers a couple of times
and it's fun, but it can get it,well, mine's an electric bike, so I
don't have any... and just turn onthe assistance and I'm okay, you know.
Well, when it was high 30 degrees,you know, 30 degrees centigrade,
(21:59):
you know, probably between 35and 39, the day we went cycling,
yeah, that was a bit of a shock.
Yeah, so it's interesting because you,I mean, you sound like someone who
enjoys mostly rural places and to beoutside, and biking and things like that.
But on your blog, you alsohave quite a bit of stuff
about Paris, by arrondissement.
(22:21):
Tell me about that.
Why do you do that?
Do you spend a lot of time in Paris?
We haven't been for a good few years,but we've really loved Paris and I think
it's definitely still on the agenda foranother visit, because there's much more
I've learned about Paris in the lastcouple of years that making a long list.
So yeah, we had a couple of one weekstays in Paris, and we've stayed quite
(22:46):
close to the River Seine, both sides,and it's just been nice to be able to
walk out and just walk, and walk, andgo and visit all sorts of different
places, take your time, just lookaround, not have a huge agenda each day.
And I think that's one of the mainthrust of like how we travel now, we
(23:08):
don't try to cram 20 things into a day,we just really pace ourself, and have
those pauses where you just stop andwatch the world go by a little bit.
But yeah, I think Paris is one ofthose places where you can certainly
spend an awful lot of time justabsorbing it all as well as the doing.
(23:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I, for Paris, I think, if you arethe type of person who wants to take
it easy, then perhaps you should planon doing something around 10 in the
morning and then something aroundthree or four in the afternoon.
And that's it.
Don't plan anything else, likeso in the morning you go visit
(23:51):
one of the magnificent churches.
There's many, pick one, any one.
And then in the afternoon yougo to a museum, or something.
And then you have time in betweento get places, to stop at a cafe,
to have some lunch, to see things.
If you plan more than two things in aday, really you're going to rush, I think.
We've definitely done that in the past,too much, but now, certainly not so much.
(24:16):
We've learned our lesson.
So, do you have a favorite of all these,so you said you've stayed on both sides of
the river, which is a very good thing to,and that's a very good way to approach it.
You know, stay close to the riveron either side in the central
arrondissement and you'll be walkingdistance to a lot of wonderful things.
(24:36):
Now, the question is, are you going toknow about the places that you should
go to, or... because there's a lotof very small little places that only
take half an hour, you know, but theymight be the delight of your trip.
I don't know.
Some people, they run into some store likeSennelier or Deyrolle or places like that.
(24:58):
And for years to come, they willtalk about this store because it
was such a enchanting place, butthey only spent half an hour there.
Whereas they spend five hours inthe Louvre and they're like, Oh,
get me out of here, you know?
Yes.
Exactly!
I mean often it's the places that youreally weren't expecting, that are the
(25:19):
places that really stay in your mind.
Near the mosque and there'sa lovely little tea room...
Yeah.
It was just really delightful to comeacross that on a hot afternoon after
walking through the gardens there,and then we crossed the road and we
found that, and it was like a lovelylittle haven to just spend some time.
(25:40):
Right.
So that's the Jardin des Plantesand the mosque, I've included
that in my Latin Quarter Tour.
And in the tour I suggest people stopand go enjoy some pastries at the mosque.
Well, I mean, it's not, it's a bigbuilding, part of it is religious,
but the rest of it is gardens andthe tea shop and things like that.
(26:02):
It's delightful.
And that whole area is wonderful.
Like, you know, spending time at theJardin des Plantes is never a bad idea.
Totally agree.
Yeah.
So you tend to come in summer forFrance and winter for Australia.
Why do you do that?
Well, not that our winter isterrible but my husband Chris
(26:24):
likes to particularly escape.
And obviously, like the Tour de Franceis a big draw card which is drawn us
to France many times, but even likelast year, we hardly touched upon it
to be honest, we saw it in the Pyreneesand we managed to see it in a lovely
little village in the Burgundy area.
(26:45):
But it's just, I think it's justlovely in the, particularly the early
summer there, I think we've reallyloved it in June, and early July.
Just, yeah, it gives us a reprievefrom the colder weather here.
Yeah.
We can have two summers.
Right.
That's right.
Yeah, and I mean, most years youcan expect things to get pretty hot
(27:08):
by the middle of July, some yearsit was very hot in May as well.
It's hard to know.
And of course, what I consider veryhot might not be the same as what
you consider very hot because to me,as soon as you hit 30, it's too hot.
I think it is sometimes abit more of a challenge.
One of the things that we tryto look for is air conditioning.
(27:31):
Because even if you have a poolon a property, it's the sleeping
at night that sometimes can be alittle bit more challenging if you
don't have the air conditioning.
Not always easy to find, so, and itwon't stop us from staying somewhere.
We haven't actually done much travelinglater in the year, like, say, in August.
Yeah, because I believeit can get quite hot then.
(27:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's one of the advantagesof picking hotels for people
who are not here so long.
Most hotels have air conditioning by now,and you can definitely pick hotels that
have air conditioning, that's one of thecriteria that you find easily with hotels
(28:13):
and not necessarily with apartments.
Because even if they tell you theyhave air conditioning, maybe we
still, we rented an Airbnb oncewhere they had air conditioning,
but it was in the kitchen area.
The bedrooms didn't have AC.
Well, but like you mentioned,that's where you need it.
(28:33):
You know, I mean, I don't tendto sleep in my kitchen, so
yeah...
I understand.
Can you share some tipsabout how to plan a trip?
If you want to make your tripcoincide with the Tour de
France, how do you plan that?
How do you select a place, andhow do you arrange all of that?
(28:56):
Okay, well, firstly, you obviously need todo a little bit of research about the Tour
de France, look at their website and findthe dates, look at a map, and try to plan
out where you would maybe like to see it.
So if you see it in the mountains,it's quite often good because it's
a slower pace, than one of theflatter stages where it's just racing
(29:20):
through at a million miles an hour.
Great experience, but you know, blinkand you miss it, so it's all the
build up that goes with it as well.
But if it's on a mountain stageand you can find a parking spot, or
you're going to have to walk a longway because we've done both of those,
then you do get to experience aslower pace of the cyclists coming up.
(29:42):
But you do experience, I guessa slower pace to the whole day.
Planning how to get there, you do needto do this a long way in advance usually,
because accommodation can be limited,particularly in those rural areas.
Everybody wants to stay there,particularly the cyclists you know,
(30:02):
there'll be a fair bit of competition.
So the dates are usually released,you know, in October and you really
should jump onto it straight awayand start looking at it then.
Yeah.
Right.
Because typically, if you can stay nottoo far from where the tour is going to
be, I mean, you know which roads, becausethey're going to be closed off to traffic.
(30:25):
It can be a challenge if theystart closing too many of the
roads, because then you do have toprepare yourself to walk a long way.
Yeah, right.
Yes.
So you walk, and there are people,I guess you could take your
bikes to make it a little faster.
You can definitely, if you've got bikes,you can definitely get through far
(30:45):
more than you can if you're taking acar, because they will block the roads.
I don't know, I've never seen a mountainstage, but around Toulouse, where I live,
I've seen it come through a few timesin villages around where I live, and
whatever, and it's not very difficult forus because it's just two villages over.
So I just get as close as I can,and then I park, and then I walk to
(31:09):
the road where they're going to be.
Now, the question is what timeis it going to come through?
That's another question.
You have to be kind of used toTour de France stages and see,
okay, they're leaving from here,they're likely to be in this village
around this time, more or less.
That's true.
And you can find more up to dateinformation on their website, and
(31:32):
sometimes locally, they'll have someinformation that they'll put out that, you
know, they know exactly it's going to comehere at this time and here at that time.
And you may have a couple of opportunitiesin that local area to see them.
So they'll have the caravan comingthrough with all the different floats.
So, you know, the merchandisethat they're throwing out.
(31:55):
And then there's usually a quitea bit of a pause between, and
then the cyclists coming through.
And if it's in a small area,like I said, we to a village in
Burgundy, we did actually cyclefrom our accommodation to that.
So that was a bit of a buzz,because I'd never done that before.
And it was a lovely little village andthen there's usually lots of activities
(32:18):
going on, food and of course wine andyou know, there was a little exhibition
by the local kids and their bike club.
And then we all sort ofgathered for the caravan.
And then that went through, and thenwe went back to what we were doing, and
then we came again to see the cyclists.
And then it was over and everybodyjust, you know, either left or
(32:39):
kept enjoying the festivities.
Whereas on a mountain, there's a lot moreinvolved because you've got to get there
and, you know, getting on and off themountain with, you know, a lot of people
is, you know, a full day event really.
Right.
So in Burgundy, how long did you spend?
Was it a half a day?
Probably just a couple of hoursof that and then it was off,
(33:01):
and then we went again, yeah.
Yeah, that's how it is forus in not mountain stages.
You just go and spend an hour, or two.
Enjoy it, and then go home.
You enjoy the atmosphere and, I mean,when they zoom past, it's pretty fast.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, if you can go where there'sa bit of a curve or something,
it might slow them down a bit.
(33:23):
But if you're on a stretch ofstraight road, they go fast.
They certainly do.
Blink it, you miss it.
They're gone.
Bullets.
Very good.
So what have you learned aboutFrance over all of these trips?
Are there tips that youwant to share with people?
Things that always work inFrance, no matter where you are.
(33:45):
Well, markets always work.
Okay.
So, yeah, top of the list.
I think you need to really startto be observant of pleasantries.
You know, a 'Bonjour' anda 'Merci' go a long way.
Particularly when you're entering smallshops, to say hello and to thank them,
(34:06):
even if you're not buying anything, butjust have that in that small interaction.
I think also observant of maybe mealtimes, and restaurant times, again,
particularly in smaller areas that, youknow, you really need to be thinking
about being there for 12 o'clock.
If you haven't made a reservation,particularly, you may not get a seat.
(34:31):
You can't arrive like, you know, inAustralia and probably in the US and the
UK, you know, lunch can just go on, andon, and you can just expect that service.
You can't expect that.
You know, there are obviously placesin bigger cities that you can, but
smaller places, it's quite limited.
(34:52):
So reservations can obviously bein your favor if that's something
that you really want to be at thatrestaurant, it's worth doing it.
Other things, just that appreciation,I guess, of lovely bread at bakeries,
which we don't have that much here.
Do you speak French?
Un petit peu, Annie.
(35:14):
Yeah.
It's never enough.
So that hasn't been a kind of adifficulty for you, you make do, right?
Even though you don't speak,I mean, you go to rural places
and you don't speak French.
How does that work out?
Usually absolutely fine.
We just try and as I said,we always use a pleasantries.
You know, we have our basicphrases, we come unstuck when it
(35:37):
starts to become a conversation.
If someone starts to think wecan speak more than we can.
But you know, we can get throughwith a bit of mime and, you know, I
haven't really resulted to the GoogleTranslate backwards and forwards.
It's really been we'll..we'll get through this.
And between us, you know, fluffing ourway through it, and I find the French
(35:58):
usually very quite accommodating.
Yeah, so if you're smiley and pleasant,and you're making effort, you know, you're
like, oh, it's obvious that you're makingan effort to understand, they love it.
Never a problem.
Yeah, the one thing people don'tlike is demanding tourists.
(36:18):
You know, if you show up and youthrow a fit because you can't get
ice, as much ice as you're used toat home, that's not going to go well.
I think you just have to, you know, youhave to blend in to some degree, and
just, you know, just remember where youare and that things are different, and
that if you want what's at home, then,well, you probably need just stay there,
(36:41):
and not get out in the world as much.
Yeah, and be curious, you know,and in France, if you want French
people to be sweet to you, bekind to you, is ask them for help.
Just say, oh, I need helpwith something, anything.
I need help finding this, or Ineed help buying this, or whatever,
and they will help you typically.
That's just how it goes.
(37:02):
All right.
Well, thank you so much.
I think, anything else you wantto bring up before we say goodbye?
You've shared a lot of good stuff,and especially about the importance
of just take it easy, like, you don'ttry to rush through your vacation.
Yes, and like, I know that's, it canbe a bit difficult coming from me who,
(37:23):
you know, I've just had five weeksthere, and obviously not everybody
can do that, it depends where you'recoming from in the world, it could
be a week or it could be two weeks.
But yeah, I think it's often better justto see fewer things and really appreciate
them, than to try and cram in everything.
Yeah, if you just have aweek, spend it in one place.
(37:43):
Decide, I have a week, I'm going to gospend a week in Normandy, or I'm going
to go spend a week in the Dordogne,or I'm going to go spend a week in
Provence, just spend that week there.
Don't try to do, I want to do abit of Paris, and I want to do a
bit of Provence, and I want to be abit of Normandy, that doesn't work.
It just doesn't work.
(38:04):
You'll make yourself miserable.
I think that there, whilst there'smany beautiful different areas of
France and obviously different climatesand different countryside, I think
ultimately you can enjoy yourself, andhave that experience in a village in
Normandy, and a village in Provence, or avillage, you know, down in the Pyrenees.
(38:28):
You don't have to, you know, thinkthat you have to go everywhere,
you can experience thosethings in all parts of France.
And just enjoy it.
Yeah.
And the Pyrenees, typically theplace where people spend the most
time is going to be either the farwest side, you know, the Basque
(38:49):
country where there's plenty to do.
You could spend a whole week easily in theBasque country, and not see everything.
And the other side around Perpignanand the Cathar country, all of that.
But then in between, those are notplaces where you probably want to
spend a week, because there isn't thatmuch to do, unless you are going to be
(39:13):
hiking and biking and enjoying nature.
If that's why you're coming, then perfect.
But if you're coming to visit,because there are plenty of villages
in the Pyrenees, but they're notthat quaint, most of them, you know.
Quite rustic, really.
They're very rustic.
Yeah, they're very rustic.
Yeah.
But yes, if you want a mixture of thetowns that are going to offer you more
(39:37):
culture, perhaps museums, art galleries,restaurants, and things like that, then
yes, you probably need to base yourself,you know, either side, as you say, in that
area, particularly, to get that mixture.
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Carol, you've been adelight to talk to, and I recommend your
(39:57):
website again, it's frenchviews.com.au.
Some very interesting blog poststhere about different things
that you've done, and you've donequite a bit, it's impressive!
Thank you very much, Annie.
And thanks to everyone for listening.
Merci beaucoup.
Merci beaucoup.
Au revoir.
(40:21):
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so.
You can see them at Patreon.com/joinus.
A special shout out this weekto my one new Join Us in France
champion Sandra Klein, who joinedat the Groupie du podcast tier.
(40:41):
Would you join her too?
Lots of things for you todiscover when you become a patron.
And this week, since I've been in Paris,I have posted some videos and chatted
with my patrons about some things thatthey can visit when they come to Paris.
And also my thanks to Jay Preston Turnerfor his one-time donation, using any
(41:02):
green button on JoinUsinFrance.Comthat says 'Tip your guide'.
Preston wrote (41:06):
'Thank you for your lovely podcast.
Also purchased three tours.
Merci!'
Well, thank you very much, Preston.
And about those tours, you know,on Facebook travel groups and in my
own Join Us in France email, I readposts from people who sound very
stressed because they're going toParis, they're not sure what to do.
(41:28):
Their husband, their kids, theirfriends, expect them to know what to
do, sometimes because they were inParis years ago, or sometimes because
it was their idea to come to Paris.
And I mean, these people did whatthey could, they've read all these
things, they can't remember much of it.
The trip is next week,and they are overwhelmed.
If that's you, get some VoiceMap tours!
(41:52):
You want a food tour, you want tovisit Notre Dame, you want to see
all the cool stuff in Montmartre,get a bundle of my tours.
You can take me in your pocketand I'll whisper in your ear
where you need to go next.
I'll also tell you what you're looking atand why it's so popular, and I'll briefly
give you the context and the historicalsignificance of these wonderful places.
(42:16):
Travel should be fun and if you'vegot someone who knows Paris well,
taking you around, it's a lot easier.
This week my sister-in-law joinedme in Paris for a few days.
She was born in Paris, but moved away.
Moved around quite a bit as a kid.
And settled in Touluse years ago.
She studied architecture and she lovesto watch the French History Channel.
(42:40):
She's been back to Parisa few times and enjoys it.
And since I'm spending a couple ofweeks in Paris writing my new VoiceMap
tour, I'm calling it Gothic Jewelsof Paris, Notre Dame, Saint Chapelle
and the Conciergerie, she decidedto come spend a weekend with me.
I asked her, well, whatdo you want to see?
And she said, you decide!
(43:00):
I don't know, you decide!
Oh, great!
But you know, I can really do this.
So on day one, we only had a partialday that day, I took her to Notre
Dame and the Latin Quarter, plus anice dinner with a view of Notre Dame.
Not La Tour d'Argent, we don'thave that kind of budget, or time.
On day two, we went to LeMarais, and we saw the best of
(43:23):
the area, did some shopping.
And day three, which was also apartial day, we went to the Opera area,
the covered passages in Les Halles.
She couldn't believe how much she got tosee in such a short time, because I knew
exactly where to take her, so she couldsee the best of each neighborhood quickly.
(43:44):
There are a lot of people whosay in Paris, be a flanneur.
Just walk without givingit another thought.
They don't realize that there are over400 miles of streets in Paris proper.
So telling people that they shouldjust walk is not very helpful.
If you have the rest of your life, byall means, walk all the streets in Paris!
(44:08):
Wonderful thing to do, indeed.
But if you are only there for a few days,it's best to know which streets to walk,
and which ones to forget about for now.
So here's a great walkyou can take in Paris.
And of course my VoiceMap tours dosimilar things, but you can write it
down and do it all by your lonesome.
(44:29):
I'll share the map and some moredetails with my lovely patrons,
but I will tell you about it aswell, so you can do it on your own.
This walk starts at the top ofRue de Martyrs, so it would work
very well walking down the hillafter a visit to Montmartre.
So Rue de Martyrs it's a fabulousstreet full of mom and pop
(44:51):
kind of stores, a lot of foods.
There's a whole book written aboutthis street, it's called, The Only
Street in Paris, by Elaine Sciolino.
A great book that I read while back,but I remember it was a great book.
When you get to Notre Dame de Lorette,which is a church at the bottom of
the hill, it's an interesting church.
(45:11):
Go in.
And then you go left untilyou get to Rue Cadet, another
wonderful commercial street.
I mean, it's not full of highfashion, but it's a great place
where regular people go shopping.
And at the bottom of Rue Cadet you'llfind a great store called À la Mère de
Famille where they sell all sorts ofsweet things, it's a favorite of mine.
(45:36):
Then you go to the Passage Verdeauand you can look at all the stores.
I think the  Verdeau is the onewith all the stamp collector stuff.
Then you cross the street and go intoPassage Jouffroy, and at the end of that
one there's a third passage de Panorama.
So you have three of them right in a row.
It's very easy to find them.
(45:58):
Then you can set your GPS tothe Sentier Metro Station.
It's a little bit on the oblique,it's not quite straight down, and
you can keep going down the hillto Rue Montorgueil and Les Halles.
And so that would make for awonderful afternoon stroll in Paris.
You'll do a lot of shopping and you'llhave a fantastic time just looking at
(46:20):
streets that are truly worth a look.
This week in Paris has been alot of fun, but a lot of work.
I can't tell you, I am exhausted.
When I go home, I'm going to have tojust not do very much, and go back to
watching some silly TV in the evenings.
That would be very nice.
My thanks to podcast editors Anneand Christian Cotovan who produce
(46:43):
the audio and the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, a tripreport with Vanessa Christman.
She will take us through afascinating journey of memories,
achievements, and much more.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir!
(47:04):
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode538, cinq cent trente-huit.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty culture and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Carol Handel about how to
plan a leisurely trip to France.
(00:39):
Carol shares her insights on startinga blog, selecting charming places to
visit, and the joys of slow travel.
Whether you're curious about thebest cycling route, enjoying French
markets, or practical tips for watchingthe Tour de France, this episode
is packed with valuable advice forplanning your next French adventure.
(00:59):
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that on myboutique: JoinUsinFrance.com/boutique.
(01:21):
And remember, Patreon supporters get thepodcast ad-free and as soon as it's ready.
Click on the link in the show notesto enjoy this Patreon reward for
as little as $3 per month For themagazine part of the podcast, after
my chat with Carol today, I'll discusssome fun walks you can take in Paris,
for those of you who like to roam.
(01:52):
Bonjour, Carol Handel, andwelcome to Join us in France.
And bonsoir, Annie, from Sydney.
It's seven o'clock in the evening here.
Very good.
Lovely to talk to you todayabout your blog and about how to
plan a leisurely trip in France.
So tell me about this blog thatyou started and why you decided
(02:17):
to start a blog about France.
Yeah, thank you, Annie.
So, I guess back in 2009, my husbandChris and I, took a long trip to France,
and I spent a lot of time researching,planning out our trip that was going
to take between three and six months.
And it was very difficultto find all the information.
(02:39):
So I made a lot of notes as Iwent and then that accumulated
into another long trip in 2015.
And then we thought, well, maybe I shoulddo something with this information.
Maybe I thought of about an e-bookand then e-books kind of came and
went and then it was about, well,what a blog post or a website, and
(03:02):
I kept looking at it and thinking,oh, it's too hard or the technical.
Then COVID came along and I guessI got presented with an opportunity
and also there were differentplatforms that had evolved.
So I chose a platform which isSquarespace and it was quite easy for
me, and I thought well I'll just dothis and I'll just record our past
(03:24):
trips, and you know, throw out someinformation and just see how I go.
And I guess it's evolved fromthere, in that I've also invited
people to be like guest writers.
I've thrown some interview questionsto them and they provided their photos
and just information, I suppose,to locally, here in Australia,
little markets that we've been to.
(03:45):
Right, so it's kind of like whatI do with Join Us, except in
a blog form, yeah, fantastic.
So, tell me about your trips and tell meabout why you enjoy traveling to France.
When was your last tripto France, for instance?
June - July 2024.
Alright.
Yeah so we hadn't been for a fewyears, for the obvious reasons of
(04:09):
COVID and then just getting back intothe rhythm of planning a longer trip.
Coming from Australia, it's, you know, forus we needed to be decent length of time
to, you know, offset that large airfareand also the long journey that it takes.
(04:29):
So, we started planning for that tripabout 12 months out, coming up with a
bit of an itinerary, places that we'vebeen to before that we'd like to revisit.
So yeah, we've sort of built up thistrip with mainly some one week stays
and then a few shorter stays in between.
So it was five weeks in total.
(04:50):
So you normally spend a week in eacharea that you're going to visit?
If we can now, because we've workedout that we'd like to be settled
into kind of our own place wherewe could have, you know, a kitchen,
washing machine, a parking area.
You know, a small town or a villagewhere we've got some facilities, and
(05:13):
we just like to try and slow down thepace and just move out from there.
And you stay how longin each of these places?
Well, if we can a week, but sometimesthat doesn't always work out.
And it depends on the type ofaccommodation that you can find.
If we can find somewhere that is,you know, we've got our own, that's
(05:34):
great, but sometimes if it's aB&B, we may not stay for as long,
it really just depends, Annie.
But a week is a really goodopportunity to really get to know
an area, that's what we find.
Right.
Right.
And how do you select theplaces where you're going to go?
Do you go, I mean,like, do you read books?
(05:56):
Do you read websites?
Do you, I suppose you listen toJoin Us in France a little bit too.
How do you decide?
Yeah, so look, a lot ofresearch that goes into that.
Definitely your blog posts, your podcast,lots of other information like that.
We watch YouTube videos,we've watched movies.
I read a lot of books about France,just getting little snippets of
(06:19):
ideas of what we would like to do.
We do like to do some cycling.
So if possible, we like to beable to take our bikes and we do
like to be able to go to areaswhere we can both do some cycling.
Oh, so you bring yourbikes from Australia?
That's correct, yes.
(06:39):
We've done it on a number of occasions.
So far, my husband took hison the first trip in 2009.
And then since then we've tried totake ours together, and so I let him
go on his adventures up mountains,but we do a lot of lovely countryside.
Very nice.
Is there a reason why you don'tjust rent a bike in France?
(07:02):
Over the years, I'velooked at various methods.
And I think what we've worked outis that if because we like to move
on to different regions and not justbe there in like one regional, one
accommodation for the full time, wehave seen that it could be quite pricey.
Plus, there is that confidence in yourown bike, especially for Chris, because
(07:27):
he's riding up mountains, and you wantto know that the, you know, the machine
that you're riding on top of it is, youknow, something that you can really,
really believe in, in that situation.
Wow.
So that must add to the complication.
I mean, if you've done it severaltimes, you know how by now.
Did you write a blog post about that?
(07:48):
I've got some information thereabout cycling, just some general
bits and pieces that we've done.
But what we've come about is that weactually fly with British Airways.
British Airways will allow us to bringour bicycles in a hard case box, and that
(08:08):
protects the bike, and it is a set price.
It's not a per kilo price.
So it actually works out quitecost effective to do it that way.
But then obviously we do have to then hirea van because we're not the cyclists that
cycle with panniers from place to place.
We are driving around and then wetake our bikes out as part of the
(08:32):
trip, it's not all consuming cycling.
So we've mentioned your blog, butwe didn't say what it's called.
It's called French Views, and so it'sfrenchviews.com.au is where you can find.
Yeah, where you can find it.
And on your front page, I see thatyou have a post about the Palais Idéal
(08:52):
du Facteur Cheval, which we've talkedabout on the podcast not too long ago.
You talk about Grignan in theDrĂ´me, the funicular to the
Fourvière, which is great.
Yeah.
So a lot of little snippets of thingsthat you do in France, which I think
is, really for people who like to readbecause there are people who enjoy
(09:13):
the podcast, which, you know, Join Usin France is a podcast and a website.
And I tried to make the blogposts as engaging as possible,
but I'm not a blogger per se,you know, I'm more of a talker.
Yes.
There are people who prefer to read.
Yes.
(09:33):
And I found that.
I found that I've hadquite a bit of interest.
People have reached out to me and thankedme and said it was very entertaining.
Which, you know, I'm really justdoing this out of a love of France
and our enjoyment of traveling there.
It's just sharing the experience andI guess showing people, you know, what
(09:53):
we've done just with a little bit ofresearch, and anyone really can do this
if you're willing to put in a littlebit of effort, and go off the beaten
track, you can find these nice placesand not just stick to the typical...
you know, that everybody goes to places.
Right.
Yeah.
And so on a practical level,how do you plan your trip?
(10:15):
Like, do you use an app?
Do you use a software?
Do you use, I don't know,an Excel sheet, a Word file?
How do you do it?
Yeah, so I guess it's very basic, really.
Yeah, just Word docsand I keep a calendar.
We keep a bit of a, like, we put thedates in where we're going and where we'll
stay, making sure that they all flow on.
(10:37):
And then we use it, we've used anExcel spreadsheet before as well.
It's just gathering all theinformation in the beginning.
And doing a lot of research and a lotlike what interests us, and then nutting
it down to, let's choose these places.
Then doing some research into like,weather, accommodation, as I said,
(10:58):
we've got a bit of criteria because wedo like to try to be self-sufficient,
so that we can then experience markets,go and buy fresh produce, you know,
try to interact with the people at themarkets and have that experience as well.
The B&Bs are great and we've alsohad some wonderful meals at some of
(11:21):
those table d'hĂ´te, where, you know,you can share that experience with
people having meal in the host's home.
Yeah, so there's so many differentexperiences, but just bringing it all
together into sort of one document thatthen, you know, I can keep track of it
and make sure that we've got all thecorrectly and we haven't made a mistake.
(11:45):
But basically, I'm doing this all, youknow, myself from booking the flights and
accommodation, and researching, even downto some special restaurants that we've
gone to on the last trip, particularly.
Right, have you found that you needto reserve those restaurants in
advance or can you do that just, youknow, when you arrive or whatever?
(12:09):
Hmm.
To be honest, I think in past trips,we've mainly just winged it, if you like.
Sometimes that doesn't always work though.
There has been times whenwe've been turned away.
I mean, we've learned a little bit aboutthe timing, the French timing of meals.
But in the last trip, there were afew places that we have booked in
(12:31):
advance, then there's some others thathave just come our way, which have
been absolutely wonderful experiences.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it just depends on whatyou're looking for, I think.
And some of the places we'vebeen to have been very small.
And therefore, if you wanted a particularday to fit in with your itinerary,
you do need to probably have a lookat that in as much advance as you can.
(12:55):
Yes, and also you never know, theymight be closed that day and you
just, you wouldn't know unless you tryto reserve and then they, oh, we're
closed that day for whatever reason.
You know, these are very small businesses.
There's this lady in thevillage next to mine.
She has a small Ă©picerie.
She sells beautiful cheeses, a fewwines, some fruits and vegetables.
(13:19):
She has some tables up front.
Anyway, it's a lovely little placeand she just procures things locally.
So it's all locally produced things.
But she's open or closed at very odd timesbecause she's a young mom and so you never
know if it's going to be open or closed.
Places like that, I mean, she doesn'toffer food, but places like that,
(13:43):
if it's just a mom and pop shop,sometimes it's best to call them
or send an email to make sure thatthey're going to be open at that time.
Absolutely.
How do you decide how longto stay in a given place?
Because one of the problems with planninga trip, based on what you read, what you
hear is that there are a lot of bloggerswho are very good at hyping a place.
(14:07):
For instance the  PalaisIdéal du Facteur Cheval,
well, that's a two three hour experience.
Is there enough to do around thereto spend a week, is the question.
How do you figure out where youcan spend just two days and where
you're going to spend a week?
I think that this last trip,majority of it we were looking
(14:28):
at in terms of cycling, Annie.
So, you know, we arrived in Lyon andwe were only there for a couple of
days and we were staying in a hotel.
Certainly no cycling there, but wewere just zoned in on, you know,
having a look at the city, we focusedon the silk tour that was really
interesting, and obviously the food.
(14:49):
But then the next stop was Provence,and we knew that even a week is not
enough, because we've been before.
And so the cycling wasthe main thrust of that.
But obviously we then did some otherbits and pieces around there as well.
There is so much, if you startlooking into an area, realistically
there is so much that you can do.
(15:11):
If it's hot or if it's cold or if it'sraining, you know, but just trying
to make it go around market days.
A French market is a great place to go.
There are plenty on every dayof the week and, you know, they
could just be within 30 minutesof the place where you're staying.
There could be 10 different places to go.
So I just think that, yeah, some placeswe could stay easily for two weeks and
(15:37):
have, you know, more than enough to do.
But then other places, likewe went down to the Pyrenees.
We've been there for a good few times,but we went there specifically for the
Tour de France last year, and actuallyjust for a particular couple of stages.
So we were based in the area, wefocused on the Tour de France,
(15:59):
we had a bit of cycling ourselvesand we just had an enjoyable time.
It really just depends.
So if you have your bikes withyou, you mentioned a van, so
you rent a vehicle large enoughto keep your bikes in the van?
Is that how it works?
Yeah, that's... that's correct, Annie.
So not always easy because oftenwhen you're renting a vehicle, you
(16:24):
can rent a particular of vehicle,but you can't be very specific.
And so you take a chance.
We do all the measurements.
So we know that we're arriving with twosuitcases and two hard case bike boxes.
As long as we can get to the first venueand then we unpack the bikes and assemble
(16:46):
them, but the idea is to try to keepeverything together in the van so that
we can be flexible and just, you know,go for a drive and pull out the bikes.
We're obviously leaving outthe suitcases until it's time
to move on to the next place.
It does become a bit more expensivethan a small vehicle, obviously,
and just driving around the place.
(17:08):
And what rental agencieshave you had good luck with?
Well, the one that we've beenusing mostly in the last few
years is called Auto Europe.
They have variousagencies around the world.
We've used them inFrance, I think in the UK.
And also, we've had acouple of trips to Hawaii.
So we've used the same company.
(17:28):
Yeah, you can just use various locations.
They outsource to the differentactual rental company.
Because Auto Europe iskind of an aggregator.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
So, it just depends on the price and thetype of vehicle that you are choosing.
Vans are not as easy because sometimeswhen they say van, it's actually a very
(17:52):
small, like, SUV and you can't reallyfit all of our luggage into that.
So, yeah.
Yeah, that's a problem.
We had the same issue in the U.S. Wewanted something big enough for four
people and a wheelchair and our luggage.
And they wanted to give us a suburban.
So that's a massive car, but youcan't fit four people comfortably
(18:14):
and a wheelchair and luggage.
We requested a van.
We just want a, just a simplefamily van where we can put the
seats down and we have more room.
They tend to be morespace efficient, I think.
Exactly.
Yeah, you worry about your stuffgetting stolen in your van like
when you're sleeping, or you parksomewhere and you leave your bikes and
(18:36):
your stuff, do you worry about that?
I guess mostly we haven't, we'venever had an issue, touch wood.
I guess if we're staying in accommodation,we've left the majority of our things
there, and we may put our bikes in thevan and then drive to a certain place
and then go cycling, you know, so thenwe've got the bikes out of the van.
(18:56):
But yeah, we may have someother things in the van.
Like Chris, I've mentioned to youis a photographer and so he'll often
have his photography gear with us.
Oh, wow!
And he's not carrying a big heavycameras when we're out and about on
the bikes, but we might bring thebikes back to the van and then we'll
go off and he'll take some, you know,photos and... yeah, so touch wood.
(19:21):
No, no problem so far.
But obviously we are cautious.
We do lock up and we do try to makesure that things aren't obvious when
you're looking through the window.
You know, it's, it hasn'treally been a problem
.Yeah, I don't think France has big problem with cars getting broken into,
especially of late, but you never know.
(19:43):
I mean, there are people, I'masking because I know there are
people who are going to think,Oh no, no, no, you can't do that.
Your stuff's going to begone when you come back.
Yeah.
Well, after numerous trips so far,we haven't had any issues at all.
Yeah, that's good to know.
What are your favorite placesto go cycling and visiting
(20:06):
and spending a leisurely time?
Well, I guess first up,I'll have to say Provence.
We tend to visit in June, July, and thelast visit we started off in June and
we headed to much straight to Provencebecause we obviously, we don't really
like cycling when it's too hot either.
We tend to try and hit off early, makethe most of that morning and then get
(20:30):
back and, you know, relax, go sightseeor hop in, you know, in the pool.
So, Provence obviously allowsthat kind of, it's got a
bit of a mixture of cycling.
There's things that I can do and thenChris could go and conquer Mont Ventoux
and, you know, some other places.
So that's always been,you know, a bit of a hit.
(20:53):
Also, I mean, we have donesome cycling in the Pyrenees.
Again, me, you know, something moresimple, but Chris is, there's numerous
places in the Pyrenees where you can,you know, go and ride up a mountain.
We've also, this time, we spentsome time in Gascony, the Gers,
which was a bit more rolling hill.
(21:14):
We had never been there before.
It was very hot by the time we got therein July, but well worth all the beautiful
sunflowers, and the vineyards andlittle villages to cycle around as well.
The Gers is beautiful andit's, yeah, it's not very long,
steep hills, but it's hilly.
(21:35):
It's not flat.
Yeah.
Hillier than I thought it was going to be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've taken my ownbike to The Gers a couple of times
and it's fun, but it can get it,well, mine's an electric bike, so I
don't have any... and just turn onthe assistance and I'm okay, you know.
Well, when it was high 30 degrees,you know, 30 degrees centigrade,
(21:59):
you know, probably between 35and 39, the day we went cycling,
yeah, that was a bit of a shock.
Yeah, so it's interesting because you,I mean, you sound like someone who
enjoys mostly rural places and to beoutside, and biking and things like that.
But on your blog, you alsohave quite a bit of stuff
about Paris, by arrondissement.
(22:21):
Tell me about that.
Why do you do that?
Do you spend a lot of time in Paris?
We haven't been for a good few years,but we've really loved Paris and I think
it's definitely still on the agenda foranother visit, because there's much more
I've learned about Paris in the lastcouple of years that making a long list.
So yeah, we had a couple of one weekstays in Paris, and we've stayed quite
(22:46):
close to the River Seine, both sides,and it's just been nice to be able to
walk out and just walk, and walk, andgo and visit all sorts of different
places, take your time, just lookaround, not have a huge agenda each day.
And I think that's one of the mainthrust of like how we travel now, we
(23:08):
don't try to cram 20 things into a day,we just really pace ourself, and have
those pauses where you just stop andwatch the world go by a little bit.
But yeah, I think Paris is one ofthose places where you can certainly
spend an awful lot of time justabsorbing it all as well as the doing.
(23:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I, for Paris, I think, if you arethe type of person who wants to take
it easy, then perhaps you should planon doing something around 10 in the
morning and then something aroundthree or four in the afternoon.
And that's it.
Don't plan anything else, likeso in the morning you go visit
(23:51):
one of the magnificent churches.
There's many, pick one, any one.
And then in the afternoon yougo to a museum, or something.
And then you have time in betweento get places, to stop at a cafe,
to have some lunch, to see things.
If you plan more than two things in aday, really you're going to rush, I think.
We've definitely done that in the past,too much, but now, certainly not so much.
(24:16):
We've learned our lesson.
So, do you have a favorite of all these,so you said you've stayed on both sides of
the river, which is a very good thing to,and that's a very good way to approach it.
You know, stay close to the riveron either side in the central
arrondissement and you'll be walkingdistance to a lot of wonderful things.
(24:36):
Now, the question is, are you going toknow about the places that you should
go to, or... because there's a lotof very small little places that only
take half an hour, you know, but theymight be the delight of your trip.
I don't know.
Some people, they run into some store likeSennelier or Deyrolle or places like that.
(24:58):
And for years to come, they willtalk about this store because it
was such a enchanting place, butthey only spent half an hour there.
Whereas they spend five hours inthe Louvre and they're like, Oh,
get me out of here, you know?
Yes.
Exactly!
I mean often it's the places that youreally weren't expecting, that are the
(25:19):
places that really stay in your mind.
Near the mosque and there'sa lovely little tea room...
Yeah.
It was just really delightful to comeacross that on a hot afternoon after
walking through the gardens there,and then we crossed the road and we
found that, and it was like a lovelylittle haven to just spend some time.
(25:40):
Right.
So that's the Jardin des Plantesand the mosque, I've included
that in my Latin Quarter Tour.
And in the tour I suggest people stopand go enjoy some pastries at the mosque.
Well, I mean, it's not, it's a bigbuilding, part of it is religious,
but the rest of it is gardens andthe tea shop and things like that.
(26:02):
It's delightful.
And that whole area is wonderful.
Like, you know, spending time at theJardin des Plantes is never a bad idea.
Totally agree.
Yeah.
So you tend to come in summer forFrance and winter for Australia.
Why do you do that?
Well, not that our winter isterrible but my husband Chris
(26:24):
likes to particularly escape.
And obviously, like the Tour de Franceis a big draw card which is drawn us
to France many times, but even likelast year, we hardly touched upon it
to be honest, we saw it in the Pyreneesand we managed to see it in a lovely
little village in the Burgundy area.
(26:45):
But it's just, I think it's justlovely in the, particularly the early
summer there, I think we've reallyloved it in June, and early July.
Just, yeah, it gives us a reprievefrom the colder weather here.
Yeah.
We can have two summers.
Right.
That's right.
Yeah, and I mean, most years youcan expect things to get pretty hot
(27:08):
by the middle of July, some yearsit was very hot in May as well.
It's hard to know.
And of course, what I consider veryhot might not be the same as what
you consider very hot because to me,as soon as you hit 30, it's too hot.
I think it is sometimes abit more of a challenge.
One of the things that we tryto look for is air conditioning.
(27:31):
Because even if you have a poolon a property, it's the sleeping
at night that sometimes can be alittle bit more challenging if you
don't have the air conditioning.
Not always easy to find, so, and itwon't stop us from staying somewhere.
We haven't actually done much travelinglater in the year, like, say, in August.
Yeah, because I believeit can get quite hot then.
(27:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's one of the advantagesof picking hotels for people
who are not here so long.
Most hotels have air conditioning by now,and you can definitely pick hotels that
have air conditioning, that's one of thecriteria that you find easily with hotels
(28:13):
and not necessarily with apartments.
Because even if they tell you theyhave air conditioning, maybe we
still, we rented an Airbnb oncewhere they had air conditioning,
but it was in the kitchen area.
The bedrooms didn't have AC.
Well, but like you mentioned,that's where you need it.
(28:33):
You know, I mean, I don't tendto sleep in my kitchen, so
yeah...
I understand.
Can you share some tipsabout how to plan a trip?
If you want to make your tripcoincide with the Tour de
France, how do you plan that?
How do you select a place, andhow do you arrange all of that?
(28:56):
Okay, well, firstly, you obviously need todo a little bit of research about the Tour
de France, look at their website and findthe dates, look at a map, and try to plan
out where you would maybe like to see it.
So if you see it in the mountains,it's quite often good because it's
a slower pace, than one of theflatter stages where it's just racing
(29:20):
through at a million miles an hour.
Great experience, but you know, blinkand you miss it, so it's all the
build up that goes with it as well.
But if it's on a mountain stageand you can find a parking spot, or
you're going to have to walk a longway because we've done both of those,
then you do get to experience aslower pace of the cyclists coming up.
(29:42):
But you do experience, I guessa slower pace to the whole day.
Planning how to get there, you do needto do this a long way in advance usually,
because accommodation can be limited,particularly in those rural areas.
Everybody wants to stay there,particularly the cyclists you know,
(30:02):
there'll be a fair bit of competition.
So the dates are usually released,you know, in October and you really
should jump onto it straight awayand start looking at it then.
Yeah.
Right.
Because typically, if you can stay nottoo far from where the tour is going to
be, I mean, you know which roads, becausethey're going to be closed off to traffic.
(30:25):
It can be a challenge if theystart closing too many of the
roads, because then you do have toprepare yourself to walk a long way.
Yeah, right.
Yes.
So you walk, and there are people,I guess you could take your
bikes to make it a little faster.
You can definitely, if you've got bikes,you can definitely get through far
(30:45):
more than you can if you're taking acar, because they will block the roads.
I don't know, I've never seen a mountainstage, but around Toulouse, where I live,
I've seen it come through a few timesin villages around where I live, and
whatever, and it's not very difficult forus because it's just two villages over.
So I just get as close as I can,and then I park, and then I walk to
(31:09):
the road where they're going to be.
Now, the question is what timeis it going to come through?
That's another question.
You have to be kind of used toTour de France stages and see,
okay, they're leaving from here,they're likely to be in this village
around this time, more or less.
That's true.
And you can find more up to dateinformation on their website, and
(31:32):
sometimes locally, they'll have someinformation that they'll put out that, you
know, they know exactly it's going to comehere at this time and here at that time.
And you may have a couple of opportunitiesin that local area to see them.
So they'll have the caravan comingthrough with all the different floats.
So, you know, the merchandisethat they're throwing out.
(31:55):
And then there's usually a quitea bit of a pause between, and
then the cyclists coming through.
And if it's in a small area,like I said, we to a village in
Burgundy, we did actually cyclefrom our accommodation to that.
So that was a bit of a buzz,because I'd never done that before.
And it was a lovely little village andthen there's usually lots of activities
(32:18):
going on, food and of course wine andyou know, there was a little exhibition
by the local kids and their bike club.
And then we all sort ofgathered for the caravan.
And then that went through, and thenwe went back to what we were doing, and
then we came again to see the cyclists.
And then it was over and everybodyjust, you know, either left or
(32:39):
kept enjoying the festivities.
Whereas on a mountain, there's a lot moreinvolved because you've got to get there
and, you know, getting on and off themountain with, you know, a lot of people
is, you know, a full day event really.
Right.
So in Burgundy, how long did you spend?
Was it a half a day?
Probably just a couple of hoursof that and then it was off,
(33:01):
and then we went again, yeah.
Yeah, that's how it is forus in not mountain stages.
You just go and spend an hour, or two.
Enjoy it, and then go home.
You enjoy the atmosphere and, I mean,when they zoom past, it's pretty fast.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, if you can go where there'sa bit of a curve or something,
it might slow them down a bit.
(33:23):
But if you're on a stretch ofstraight road, they go fast.
They certainly do.
Blink it, you miss it.
They're gone.
Bullets.
Very good.
So what have you learned aboutFrance over all of these trips?
Are there tips that youwant to share with people?
Things that always work inFrance, no matter where you are.
(33:45):
Well, markets always work.
Okay.
So, yeah, top of the list.
I think you need to really startto be observant of pleasantries.
You know, a 'Bonjour' anda 'Merci' go a long way.
Particularly when you're entering smallshops, to say hello and to thank them,
(34:06):
even if you're not buying anything, butjust have that in that small interaction.
I think also observant of maybe mealtimes, and restaurant times, again,
particularly in smaller areas that, youknow, you really need to be thinking
about being there for 12 o'clock.
If you haven't made a reservation,particularly, you may not get a seat.
(34:31):
You can't arrive like, you know, inAustralia and probably in the US and the
UK, you know, lunch can just go on, andon, and you can just expect that service.
You can't expect that.
You know, there are obviously placesin bigger cities that you can, but
smaller places, it's quite limited.
(34:52):
So reservations can obviously bein your favor if that's something
that you really want to be at thatrestaurant, it's worth doing it.
Other things, just that appreciation,I guess, of lovely bread at bakeries,
which we don't have that much here.
Do you speak French?
Un petit peu, Annie.
(35:14):
Yeah.
It's never enough.
So that hasn't been a kind of adifficulty for you, you make do, right?
Even though you don't speak,I mean, you go to rural places
and you don't speak French.
How does that work out?
Usually absolutely fine.
We just try and as I said,we always use a pleasantries.
You know, we have our basicphrases, we come unstuck when it
(35:37):
starts to become a conversation.
If someone starts to think wecan speak more than we can.
But you know, we can get throughwith a bit of mime and, you know, I
haven't really resulted to the GoogleTranslate backwards and forwards.
It's really been we'll..we'll get through this.
And between us, you know, fluffing ourway through it, and I find the French
(35:58):
usually very quite accommodating.
Yeah, so if you're smiley and pleasant,and you're making effort, you know, you're
like, oh, it's obvious that you're makingan effort to understand, they love it.
Never a problem.
Yeah, the one thing people don'tlike is demanding tourists.
(36:18):
You know, if you show up and youthrow a fit because you can't get
ice, as much ice as you're used toat home, that's not going to go well.
I think you just have to, you know, youhave to blend in to some degree, and
just, you know, just remember where youare and that things are different, and
that if you want what's at home, then,well, you probably need just stay there,
(36:41):
and not get out in the world as much.
Yeah, and be curious, you know,and in France, if you want French
people to be sweet to you, bekind to you, is ask them for help.
Just say, oh, I need helpwith something, anything.
I need help finding this, or Ineed help buying this, or whatever,
and they will help you typically.
That's just how it goes.
(37:02):
All right.
Well, thank you so much.
I think, anything else you wantto bring up before we say goodbye?
You've shared a lot of good stuff,and especially about the importance
of just take it easy, like, you don'ttry to rush through your vacation.
Yes, and like, I know that's, it canbe a bit difficult coming from me who,
(37:23):
you know, I've just had five weeksthere, and obviously not everybody
can do that, it depends where you'recoming from in the world, it could
be a week or it could be two weeks.
But yeah, I think it's often better justto see fewer things and really appreciate
them, than to try and cram in everything.
Yeah, if you just have aweek, spend it in one place.
(37:43):
Decide, I have a week, I'm going to gospend a week in Normandy, or I'm going
to go spend a week in the Dordogne,or I'm going to go spend a week in
Provence, just spend that week there.
Don't try to do, I want to do abit of Paris, and I want to do a
bit of Provence, and I want to be abit of Normandy, that doesn't work.
It just doesn't work.
(38:04):
You'll make yourself miserable.
I think that there, whilst there'smany beautiful different areas of
France and obviously different climatesand different countryside, I think
ultimately you can enjoy yourself, andhave that experience in a village in
Normandy, and a village in Provence, or avillage, you know, down in the Pyrenees.
(38:28):
You don't have to, you know, thinkthat you have to go everywhere,
you can experience thosethings in all parts of France.
And just enjoy it.
Yeah.
And the Pyrenees, typically theplace where people spend the most
time is going to be either the farwest side, you know, the Basque
(38:49):
country where there's plenty to do.
You could spend a whole week easily in theBasque country, and not see everything.
And the other side around Perpignanand the Cathar country, all of that.
But then in between, those are notplaces where you probably want to
spend a week, because there isn't thatmuch to do, unless you are going to be
(39:13):
hiking and biking and enjoying nature.
If that's why you're coming, then perfect.
But if you're coming to visit,because there are plenty of villages
in the Pyrenees, but they're notthat quaint, most of them, you know.
Quite rustic, really.
They're very rustic.
Yeah, they're very rustic.
Yeah.
But yes, if you want a mixture of thetowns that are going to offer you more
(39:37):
culture, perhaps museums, art galleries,restaurants, and things like that, then
yes, you probably need to base yourself,you know, either side, as you say, in that
area, particularly, to get that mixture.
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Carol, you've been adelight to talk to, and I recommend your
(39:57):
website again, it's frenchviews.com.au.
Some very interesting blog poststhere about different things
that you've done, and you've donequite a bit, it's impressive!
Thank you very much, Annie.
And thanks to everyone for listening.
Merci beaucoup.
Merci beaucoup.
Au revoir.
(40:21):
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so.
You can see them at Patreon.com/joinus.
A special shout out this weekto my one new Join Us in France
champion Sandra Klein, who joinedat the Groupie du podcast tier.
(40:41):
Would you join her too?
Lots of things for you todiscover when you become a patron.
And this week, since I've been in Paris,I have posted some videos and chatted
with my patrons about some things thatthey can visit when they come to Paris.
And also my thanks to Jay Preston Turnerfor his one-time donation, using any
(41:02):
green button on JoinUsinFrance.Comthat says 'Tip your guide'.
Preston wrote (41:06):
'Thank you for your lovely podcast.
Also purchased three tours.
Merci!'
Well, thank you very much, Preston.
And about those tours, you know,on Facebook travel groups and in my
own Join Us in France email, I readposts from people who sound very
stressed because they're going toParis, they're not sure what to do.
(41:28):
Their husband, their kids, theirfriends, expect them to know what to
do, sometimes because they were inParis years ago, or sometimes because
it was their idea to come to Paris.
And I mean, these people did whatthey could, they've read all these
things, they can't remember much of it.
The trip is next week,and they are overwhelmed.
If that's you, get some VoiceMap tours!
(41:52):
You want a food tour, you want tovisit Notre Dame, you want to see
all the cool stuff in Montmartre,get a bundle of my tours.
You can take me in your pocketand I'll whisper in your ear
where you need to go next.
I'll also tell you what you're looking atand why it's so popular, and I'll briefly
give you the context and the historicalsignificance of these wonderful places.
(42:16):
Travel should be fun and if you'vegot someone who knows Paris well,
taking you around, it's a lot easier.
This week my sister-in-law joinedme in Paris for a few days.
She was born in Paris, but moved away.
Moved around quite a bit as a kid.
And settled in Touluse years ago.
She studied architecture and she lovesto watch the French History Channel.
(42:40):
She's been back to Parisa few times and enjoys it.
And since I'm spending a couple ofweeks in Paris writing my new VoiceMap
tour, I'm calling it Gothic Jewelsof Paris, Notre Dame, Saint Chapelle
and the Conciergerie, she decidedto come spend a weekend with me.
I asked her, well, whatdo you want to see?
And she said, you decide!
(43:00):
I don't know, you decide!
Oh, great!
But you know, I can really do this.
So on day one, we only had a partialday that day, I took her to Notre
Dame and the Latin Quarter, plus anice dinner with a view of Notre Dame.
Not La Tour d'Argent, we don'thave that kind of budget, or time.
On day two, we went to LeMarais, and we saw the best of
(43:23):
the area, did some shopping.
And day three, which was also apartial day, we went to the Opera area,
the covered passages in Les Halles.
She couldn't believe how much she got tosee in such a short time, because I knew
exactly where to take her, so she couldsee the best of each neighborhood quickly.
(43:44):
There are a lot of people whosay in Paris, be a flanneur.
Just walk without givingit another thought.
They don't realize that there are over400 miles of streets in Paris proper.
So telling people that they shouldjust walk is not very helpful.
If you have the rest of your life, byall means, walk all the streets in Paris!
(44:08):
Wonderful thing to do, indeed.
But if you are only there for a few days,it's best to know which streets to walk,
and which ones to forget about for now.
So here's a great walkyou can take in Paris.
And of course my VoiceMap tours dosimilar things, but you can write it
down and do it all by your lonesome.
(44:29):
I'll share the map and some moredetails with my lovely patrons,
but I will tell you about it aswell, so you can do it on your own.
This walk starts at the top ofRue de Martyrs, so it would work
very well walking down the hillafter a visit to Montmartre.
So Rue de Martyrs it's a fabulousstreet full of mom and pop
(44:51):
kind of stores, a lot of foods.
There's a whole book written aboutthis street, it's called, The Only
Street in Paris, by Elaine Sciolino.
A great book that I read while back,but I remember it was a great book.
When you get to Notre Dame de Lorette,which is a church at the bottom of
the hill, it's an interesting church.
(45:11):
Go in.
And then you go left untilyou get to Rue Cadet, another
wonderful commercial street.
I mean, it's not full of highfashion, but it's a great place
where regular people go shopping.
And at the bottom of Rue Cadet you'llfind a great store called À la Mère de
Famille where they sell all sorts ofsweet things, it's a favorite of mine.
(45:36):
Then you go to the Passage Verdeauand you can look at all the stores.
I think the  Verdeau is the onewith all the stamp collector stuff.
Then you cross the street and go intoPassage Jouffroy, and at the end of that
one there's a third passage de Panorama.
So you have three of them right in a row.
It's very easy to find them.
(45:58):
Then you can set your GPS tothe Sentier Metro Station.
It's a little bit on the oblique,it's not quite straight down, and
you can keep going down the hillto Rue Montorgueil and Les Halles.
And so that would make for awonderful afternoon stroll in Paris.
You'll do a lot of shopping and you'llhave a fantastic time just looking at
(46:20):
streets that are truly worth a look.
This week in Paris has been alot of fun, but a lot of work.
I can't tell you, I am exhausted.
When I go home, I'm going to have tojust not do very much, and go back to
watching some silly TV in the evenings.
That would be very nice.
My thanks to podcast editors Anneand Christian Cotovan who produce
(46:43):
the audio and the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, a tripreport with Vanessa Christman.
She will take us through afascinating journey of memories,
achievements, and much more.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir!
(47:04):
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
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