September 7, 2025 • 55 mins
Here’s a 300-word iTunes/Podcast Apps summary for Episode 562:
What happens when your carefully planned vacation in France takes an unexpected turn? In Unexpected France: History, Nature, and a Bit of Chaos, host Annie Sargent talks with traveler Gregg Furey about a journey filled with breathtaking discoveries, surprising challenges, and a few classic French travel mishaps.
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Gregg’s trip took him to places most visitors overlook. He explored the prehistoric caves of Arcy-sur-Cure, where ancient paintings connect today’s traveler with humanity’s earliest stories. He visited the soaring cathedrals of Laon and Bourges, each one a masterpiece of Gothic architecture. At the battlefield of Alésia, Gregg learned how Julius Caesar defeated Vercingetorix and how that moment still shapes French identity. And in Colombey-les-Deux-Églises, he reflected on the life of General Charles de Gaulle at the Croix de Lorraine memorial and museum.
But not everything went according to plan. Gregg ended up in a hospital in Sarlat after unexpected health issues. Instead of panic, he found efficient doctors, affordable treatment, and an eye-opening look at how the French healthcare system really works. This detour disrupted his schedule but turned into one of the most memorable parts of the trip.
This conversation is about more than just sightseeing. It’s about handling the unpredictable. It’s about staying flexible, finding humor when things go wrong, and discovering that mishaps often make the best stories. Annie and Gregg remind us that France is more than Paris and the Riviera. Smaller towns, Roman ruins, and quiet villages hold just as much magic.
Subscribe to the Join Us in France Travel Podcast to hear more stories like this one. Learn how to plan smarter, travel deeper, and embrace the unexpected side of France.
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
This is Join Us in France, episode562, cinq-cent-soixante-deux.
Bonjour.
I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Us inFrance is the podcast where we take a
conversational journey to the beauty,culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withGregg Furey about exploring France's
(00:36):
hidden gems from small towns nearParis to Vézelay, ancient caves and
the legendary battlefield of Alésia.
Gregg shares unique travel stories,practical tips, and a dash of chaos,
including a hospital adventure,making this episode a must listen
(00:56):
for anyone seeking authentic,off-the-beaten-path French experiences.
It takes more than caffeine andchocolatine to make this podcast.
It takes you.
Many of you support the show by bookingitinerary consults, using my VoiceMap
tours, joining the boot camp, ridingin my EV, or contributing on Patreon.
(01:20):
Thank you for being part of it all.
If you want to keep the show ad-freeor see what else I offer, you'll
find the link in the show notesor at joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
For the magazine part of thepodcast, after my chat with Gregg
today, I'll discuss the announcedstrikes and political difficulties
(01:43):
starting on Monday, September 8th.
That's tomorrow if you listen to thepodcast as soon as it's released.
And just so you know, thepodcast is released every
Sunday at 6:00 PM Paris time.
I'll also discuss good news about airquality in Paris and also about the
ETIAS and EES requirements in France.
(02:06):
That should start soon.
I'm not sure how to say ETIAS,but I think that's how you say it.
It's E-T-I-A-S.
Stay tuned.
Lots of news, after mychat with Gregg today.
And if you'd like a handy summary ofthe conversation with all the useful
links, subscribe to the newsletterat joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
(02:28):
It is indeed the bestway to stay in the loop.
Bonjour, Gregg, and welcometo Join Us in France.
Bonjour, Annie.
Ca va?
Ca va tres bien.
Et vous?
Je me débrouille.
(02:52):
So, we are going to talk about a tripthat you took recently to places that
most people don't go to, which is whyI was interested in talking to you.
You did this évasion caninething that I've heard about.
I want to hear about that.
You went to Alesia, you went tosome caves in Arcey-sur-Cure.
(03:14):
Anyway, you did some interesting stuff.
So, let's talk about this.
When did this trip take place?
Well, it's actually, I'mgoing back like the last three
trips that I took to France.
Okay.
And in the very last trip that I tookto France I ended up in the hospital.
So I didn't get to do a lot ofwhat I wanted to do, and then
there was a death in the family,so I had to cut the trip short.
(03:36):
Ah-huh.
Yes.
Yeah.
But before we begin, I just wanted tomention that one of my most favorite
things to do when planning trips to Francenow is I just pick a sort of a small
town, maybe 30, 40 kilometers away fromParis, and I like to just go stay there
(03:57):
for two or three days and decompress,you know, get over the jet lag.
So two trips ago, was when I endedup going to Laon, where they have the
famous cathedral with the animals onthe outside, and things like that.
So that's kind of been mymodus operandi for the last...
That's an interesting way to do this.
And how do you make yourway to those places?
(04:20):
I rent a car and I drive superslow because I'm terrified of
getting a ticket in France.
And a lot of people honk atme, but I don't care, so...
Yeah.
So you try to just go maybe 100 kilometersaway from Paris, from wherever you land?
Yeah, yeah.
Something I can drive in less thantwo hours, and discover some place
(04:43):
where tourists don't normally go.
In the first episode that we didtogether, I found Château Thierry,
was a place kind of like that.
I mean, who goes toChâteau Thierry, you know?
Well, quite a few people,actually, I think.
Well, certainly a lot ofUnited States Marines go there.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Right.
It has an interest therefor military people.
(05:04):
Well, and then, other times,I went to Fontainebleau.
And then other times I went to Melun.
My friend warned me not togo there, but I went there
anyway.
What, spell that name?
M-E-L-U-N.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Melun.
Yes.
It's not the greatest of towns, butit's very easy to access Vaux-le-Vicomte
and Fontainebleau from there.
(05:26):
Right.
So what made it not so great?
Like it didn't look scenic or didn'thave much of a historical city center?
Yeah, yeah.
The most interesting thing I found inthe city of Melun, and anybody could
do this just driving through, was theNational Museum of the Gendarmerie.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
(05:46):
That was interesting.
That was very, very interesting.
Because you got to see the evolutionof the Gendarmerie from the time
of Napoleon until modern days.
And you know, the word comes from"les gens d'armes", which is something
they use in the Conciergerie in Paris.
I know this because I justdid some research about this
for my new Gothic Paris tour.
(06:08):
So in the Conciergerie the big roomthat you enter is called La Place
des Gens d'armes, but it's spelledin two words, les gens d'armes.
So the people of the weapons.
Right.
Armed people, yeah.
And then they use thatlater, Les Gendarmes.
But to French people, if you say theorigin of the word, we don't really know,
(06:31):
if you don't think about it, it's like,"Oh, yeah." But then when somebody tells
you, you go, "Oh, sure, Les Gens d'armes.
Yes, of course."
Yeah.
Yeah, both languages have a lotof words like that, you know.
They started off as compoundwords, and then they just
become a normal one-word word.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So I'm kind of curious aboutyour hospitalization thing.
(06:52):
If you don't mind, I would like togo into that to start with, because
this is not something that happens toa lot of people, but it can happen.
You can have accidents, youcan have infections, you can
have a variety of things.
And a lot of people who visit Franceare honestly over 50, and over
50 you tend to have more issues.
So what happened to you?
Okay.
I spent, probably almost a week inVézelay, and visited a lot of interesting
(07:16):
places near there I'd like to get into.
But anyway, our plan was to drive,there were four of us, was to drive
from Vézelay, stop one night inBourges, and then continue on to Sarlat.
And if you see a map, you seeyou're driving through nothing.
I mean, it's like inthe middle of nowhere.
Okay?
So, we stopped for lunch inSancerre, a beautiful town,
(07:37):
beautiful views from up there.
But I was starving, so I decidedto go into this really, kind
of like a dive of a restaurant.
And I think I ate something bad there.
Ah-huh.
Because by the time we were in Bourgesthat night, I knew something was wrong.
And I was sick.
In fact, I was so sick that the nextday, I couldn't drive from Bourges to
(07:59):
Sarlat, and my wife had to take over.
And she did wonderfully, even havingto deal with the roundabouts which
she had never driven in before.
So, by the time we get to Sarlat,I'm so sick that I can't see
or do anything around Sarlat.
I just stayed in the hotel room.
And after about three days of beingvery, very sick and it was, you know,
(08:19):
the GI problems, I thought I had somekind of food poisoning or something.
But it wasn't quite the same.
After about three days of that, a friendof mine says, "You need to go to a lab
and get your blood tested." And thatwas something completely unusual for me.
I'd never heard of that before.
Anybody in France can just go toa lab and say, "Test my blood."
Yes.
(08:39):
So, that's what I did.
I mean, it helps if you have aprescription from your doctor who says
exactly what the doctor wants tested.
But if you just say-
I did, I did.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
So I did that.
The results came back in aboutfour hours, and my doctor friend
says, "Go to the hospital."
So, I'm not going to ignore him and Igo to the local hospital, and Daniel,
(09:01):
the owner of the B&B in Sarlat, evenbefore I went to the hospital, he
starts apologizing to me about, "Well,this is a rural hospital. It's not
going to be anything that you're usedto." And it was raining the whole
time, so, I get to the hospital.
And no one can just walk into the ER.
You have to stand outside the ER andyou have to call the national number
(09:24):
and a screener comes on and theydidn't have anybody who spoke English.
This was when I knew all theseFrench lessons have been,
they're paying off now, right?
So, I had to explain to him, thescreener, in French, what my illness
was, what all of my symptoms were.
And then after that, a doctorcomes on the line and I had to
repeat myself again to the doctor.
(09:45):
So finally, the doctor who kind ofmaybe spoke English, he says, "Okay,
we'll let you in to see the screeningnurse." So, we stood out there for
another 20 minutes wondering what'shappening and then finally I rang the
intercom, and told them who I was andthe screening nurse says, "Oh, yes.
What's taking you so long?" And thenshe came out and she got me and then
back inside, we repeated the entireprocess again of being screened.
(10:09):
Mm-hmm.
I managed to show her my test results,and then she says, "Okay, we're going
to admit you, but first you have togo to the waiting room." So, we sat in
the waiting room for about four hours.
Yeah.
And then after that I got an MRI.
I understood what theywere doing with that.
But they kept explaining themselves tome in really rapid, local dialect French.
(10:32):
And I had to keep telling them in mypassable French, you know, "Will you
please slow down? I don't understand you."
Right.
Right.
Right.
So, this is not at all ... Wasthis in the middle of the night?
By the time I got into the hospital,into the waiting room, it was about
7:00 at night, on a Saturday night.
Because, I mean, Sarlatis not a very large city.
(10:56):
They have just under 9,000 inhabitants.
So, I'm not surprised that they don'thave, you know, a full hospital.
But around Toulouse where I live,and unfortunately my husband is
prone to GI problems and so we'vehad very similar experiences.
But in Toulouse you don't have to gothrough this intercom kind of situation.
(11:19):
You walk in and you have a person infront of you, who then can manage.
The difficulty... I can't emphasize enoughthat French doctors may say that they
speak English, but I wouldn't count on it.
Because they've had school Englishjust like you've had school French
and when you get to France you'relike, "Oh, what is this?" Right?
(11:42):
Yeah.
Well, it's the same withFrench people and English.
If they've never lived outside of Francein an English-speaking country, they
never had a chance to really improvetheir English, and it complicates things.
But they got you sorted out, right?
After a few days you've
...Yeah.
They gave me an MRI.
They told me that it was in factan infection in my GI tract.
(12:03):
It wasn't food poisoning.
They insisted that I staythere for two nights.
They put me in a room with someguy that didn't speak standard
French, so I really couldn'tunderstand anything he was saying.
How do you know he didn'tspeak standard French?
Like, that's weird.
You mentioned that twice.
But I mean, Sarlat is not that ... Wedon't speak Occitan around here.
(12:25):
His family kept visiting, and I asked thenurses as well, you know, the nurses that
could speak the French that I understand.
I said, "How come I can't understandhim?" And she would say, "Oh, well,
he's just speaking the local dialect.
It's a very strong accent."
Okay.
A very strong accent, okay.
Wow.
The hospital was very run down, it waslike some place that was built in the
(12:47):
'50s and has never been remodeled ornever been upgraded except for the medical
machinery, and Daniel explained that thenational government is trying to force
the people of Sarlat to go to Bordeauxwhen they have major problems, because
they're trying to shut this hospital down.
Because, like you said, there's only a fewthousand people that live in Sarlat, so
(13:09):
...Right.
Right.
When people tell me that they wouldlike to move to France, I tell them,
"Look into this issue of désert médical,medical deserts," because the center
of France, kind of between Sarlatand all the way up to, when you get
into the Vosges and places like that,that diagonal there is just not a
(13:33):
lot of people, very, very few people.
That's why I like it.
Yeah, but when you're sick it'sa problem because you don't have
the and they would much ratheryou go to the regional hospital.
I assume this is aproblem in the US as well.
Like, you have regionalhospitals that are much better.
I'm in California now, and forinstance, the cities in the
(13:55):
very north of California, theydon't have hospitals anymore.
People have to drive all the way to SanFrancisco now because medical people
just don't want to work in these places.
In the United States theyhave no way to force them.
Right, and they don't in France either.
They incentivize them.
They give them tax breaks.
My nephew is a dentist, and he wentto work in a very small town near
(14:19):
Limoges, a little north of Limoges,for three years for tax breaks.
He was supposed to staythere for five years.
He couldn't make it.
He broke the contract.
He's going to pay the taxes, andhe bought a practice in Toulouse.
So, it's very difficult for youngpeople to settle in these places
because they have also a lot ofreally backwards type of people.
(14:40):
Like for the dentist, he was tellingme, "I can't believe these people. They
haven't seen a dentist in 20 years,"and then they're surprised that, you
know, there's a lot of work to be done.
And like, "Ugh, well,that's how it is," you know?
So it's hard to incentivize youngdoctors to go to these places.
They're trying to, but it didn't workin the case of my nephew, anyway.
(15:03):
I assume this did notcost you an arm and a leg.
I mean, you didn't pay very much for it.
At the end of my visit there, two nightsin the hospital, with everything, it was
a little over $2,000 cash, to check out,which was fine because my insurance in
the United States reimbursed me for that.
Okay.
Okay.
It all worked out, yeah.
(15:24):
Let's leave that behind and talk about thethings that you enjoyed the most on these
various trips that we want to talk about.
Well, Laon is a wonderful city.
I really, really enjoyed Laon.
I wrote to you earlier saying thatit was where Napoleon retreated to
after Waterloo, but I was incorrect.
Napoleon lost a battle in Laon, and ifyou go there you'll see exactly why.
(15:49):
Because it's a city up on a ... not somuch a hill as a... What do you call?
A mesa.
Okay.
Okay.
The sides of the hill are steep,so it's a town that's very easy
to defend, militarily speaking.
But it's a beautiful littletown, about 25,000 people.
And there's artwork all over town.
(16:09):
They've painted these murals ofFrench heroes, so if you're a fan
of French history, you can go seethese heroes all over the place.
And then, Monsieur Marquettecame from this town as well.
That's the guy that opened upa lot of Canada for France.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So Laon is about ... I don't know,it's a tiny bit north of Reims.
(16:34):
First of all you the name of the city,you spell L-A-O-N, and it's just a little
north of Reims, probably an hour and ahalf or something, perhaps just an hour
by car to the east, northeast of Paris.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So it would be fairly easy to getto from CDG, as a matter of fact,
(16:56):
because you don't even have to get onthe Paris belt route, or very little,
and then ... you're going northeast.
Yeah.
Oh, and that was the first time ... Iwanted to show this to you.
Maybe I'll send you a picture of it.
They have a beautiful, beautiful basilica.
That was the first timeI ever used one of these.
(17:17):
Oh, les disques.
Right.
Les disques de stationnement, yes.
So un disque de stationnement issomething you use when you are supposed
to indicate what time you arrived...
Exactly.
... because you can only stay therefor a certain number of time, and
so they will ... It might be twohours, it might be an hour, whatever.
(17:39):
How did that work in Laon?
Worked perfectly, but if you're as youknow, if you're out in rural, rural
France, they still use these things.
Yeah, they do.
... And so, if you're going tobe driving a car, you have
to go to a tabac and get one.
Your rental car didn't have one in it?
Oh, no.
No, no, no.
Huh.
Huh.
No, because I don't think they expectedme to go to the middle of nowhere, so...
(18:05):
Yeah, Laon has this beautiful cathedralwith a campanile and... so there's three
towers, as a matter of fact, and then youhave a beautiful, kind of the entryway
into the city, the old medieval entrywayinto the city is absolutely gorgeous.
It's famous, as a matter of fact.
Right.
Right.
So yeah, it would be alovely, a lovely place.
(18:28):
And the cathedral itself is veryunique because it has all the statuary
of the animals on the outs- I don'tthink any other cathedral has this.
Yeah, no, not that I can think of.
And then when I was in the cathedral, Ilearned about why they put the statuary of
the cows on the outside of the cathedral,because according to the legend, when
(18:50):
they were building the cathedral, thelocal cows came and volunteered their
labor, to help them haul the stonesup the hill to build the cathedral.
And then once the cathedralwas built, they quit.
So they see it as some kind of a miracle,you know, that they had these faithful
cows helping them build the cathedral.
(19:10):
In many ways, medieval people had a moreprogressive way of handling animals.
To them, first of all, it was ararity to own either a cow or a horse
or a large, or even a donkey, youknow, a large animal of that sort.
These were precious belongings, I guess,they were always belongings, but they were
(19:33):
precious because they were rare, and youcould do a lot of cool stuff with them.
And they did not eat them as a rule.
Like, they would not... in a famine,that was the last thing you would eat.
You would eat your chickens and yourducks, even your dogs and cats, but
not the horses and the cows because,well, they can give you milk, you know,
(19:56):
and you can make cheese out of that.
So it's really... They had a very, Ithink a very good type of relationship
with large animals, and they eventhought that they were answerable to God.
There's a very funny story of whenthe people said that this horse was
evil because it was kicking people,whatever, and the bishop refused to
(20:20):
condemn it to death, even though thetown had judged the horse to be evil-
Mm-hmm.
... and were trying to force his owner to putit to death, and the bishop said, "No,
we can't do that." But they thought ofanimals like having a agency, I guess.
Animals could be either evil or not.
(20:41):
well, that's great.
Laon looks like a lovely citythat perhaps people should put
on their radar for a visit.
And I wanted to add too that,every restaurant we ate in there,
at least all the ones near thecathedral, were just excellent, just
really excellent and not expensive.
That's another thing I love aboutgoing, you know, far away from Paris.
(21:02):
You get great hotel rooms at notmuch cost, and the food is half
the cost that it is in Paris.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Wonderful.
Great recommendation.
Yeah.
Another thing that I did in Laon was totake a tour of the underside of the city.
I think they called itthe Souterrain tour.
It's offered in English.
(21:23):
And there they show you how theymined the stone from underneath the
city in order to build the cathedral.
And that was very interesting.
I've never seen anything like thatanywhere in Paris, even though obviously
Paris was built the same way, you know?
They go underneath, get the solid rock,and then bring it up to the surface.
(21:44):
That was very, veryinteresting, tour well worth it.
Yep.
And they use these machines calledécureuil, which means squirrel.
It's a very hard word for Americansto say, écureuil, it's like a wheel...
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a human hamster wheel.
Yes.
It's used to lift stones, and veryheavy things out of quarry or to the
(22:07):
top of cathedrals as a matter of fact.
These were very common implements,just like we see cranes today, well,
they used to see écureuil all the time.
Yeah.
And don't forget, everyone isworking down there by candlelight.
That's true.
In the souterrain, yes, in thetunnels, that's how you would do it.
Yep.
Wow.
That sounds like a fun activity.
(22:28):
Do they have, like, localspecialties, food things that
you had never tried before?
I... No, I don't think so.
Nothing that came to mind.
Like I said, all the foodthere, though, was just great.
That's great.
All right, what else did youdo that you want to mention?
Let me see.
In Laon we stayed therefor about three days.
I'd say you could see itin two days, you know?
(22:50):
It's a city worth two days.
Yeah.
No, that's about it for that city, andthen this last trip, we went to Vézelay.
Aha.
Now that was where we found alot of interesting things to do.
First off, it was raining.
We were there in September.
And so the first thing we did, because itwas raining, was we decided to visit the
(23:13):
nearby caves, La Grotte d'Arcy-sur-Cure.
This was an unknown hidden gem,also out in the middle of nowhere.
It was about 20 minutes fromVézelay, it's privately owned.
I think the farmer owns the land on topof the cave, and the family owns the land
up there but it was a very interestingcave, and one thing that I learned while I
(23:36):
was there, I took a picture of the posteras well, I think I sent it to you, is
that, it's not just in the Dordogne wherethey have caves full of Neolithic art.
They're all over France.
There are 76 of them on that poster andmost of them are Monuments Nationaux.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, they're protected by the governmentand the government makes sure that
(24:00):
people don't go in there and tagit or, in general, hurt anything.
So we arrived there and we managedto get in on a tour which was only
in French, but the guide was so nice.
At the end of every littlepresentation, he would try to explain
to us a little bit in English.
It was very nice.
So, the Neolithic art in there, is almostas old as the art in the caves down south,
(24:23):
and of course it's the same style, andyou can see things in there like, little
children's hand prints on the wall.
It's just amazing.
This cave goes back, I would say itgoes back for a good third of a mile,
maybe half a kilometer, and theyalso discovered music in this cave,
and if you go on YouTube and youlook up, there was this group that
(24:46):
did a concert in there, ASA, A-S-A.
You just look it up on YouTube.
You can see the concertthat they did in the cave.
Another interesting thing about thiscave is that it is one of the few caves
in France where there are also Romanremains because there's a small lake in
this cave, and in there they have foundartifacts from Roman pagan worship.
(25:10):
The Romans used to go in thereand make offerings to their gods.
Interesting.
Yeah, so, like you mentioned,there are painted caves all over
Europe, as a matter of fact.
It's just that the paint has fadedbecause they have been exposed
to the elements, and some ofthem are still to be discovered.
There has to be an incident at somepoint that closed off the entrance.
(25:35):
Otherwise, all of this work disappearsbecause, I mean, we're talking, you
know, some of these are centuries old.
Yeah.
Thousands, thousands of years old.
The guide for this particularcave was saying that they think
these are around 30,000 years old.
Right, so that makes them quite old.
Yeah.
During the last Ice Age, this is wherepeople holed up and managed to survive.
(25:59):
Yeah.
And they don't really know what theydid in these places, that's why doing
music in them is interesting, becausethe acoustics is usually pretty good, at
least in some parts of them, and so theywonder if these were places that were
used for religious ceremonies of somesort, or ... they don't have remnants that
(26:21):
show that people lived in the caves longterm, which makes sense because caves is,
you know, we say caveman, but you can'tlive in a cave if you're not a mountain
lion or a bear or an animal like that.
These are the animals that wouldgo hibernate in the caves, and
you did not want to disturb them.
People typically lived in shallowshelters, so still kind of holes
(26:46):
in the wall, but shallow walls thatthey could just cover the front of,
and be protected from the elements.
The caves of Arcy-sur-Cure soundslike a really fun thing to visit,
and it's not far from Vézelay.
So I didn't tell you where Vézelayis, and this is not a town that
most people will have heard of.
(27:08):
So that's southeast of Paris, butquite a long way, the nearest big city,
it's between Dijon and Bourges....and a little bit to the north of that.
So, you know, middleof nowhere, definitely.
Yeah.
The claim to fame of Vézelay, and oneof the reasons I wanted to see it,
(27:29):
was because in their basilica is whereRichard the Lionheart met his troops,
and the pope joined him there too.
And the pope gave him the blessingto go away on the second crusade.
Uh-huh.
And so when you go there you can seethat the opening of the basilica is,
the doors are big enough that you canride your horse into the courtyard.
(27:52):
It's much different than most churches.
And around the courtyard is a balcony.
And you can imagine the pope up there,you know, doing his thing, and Richard
the Lionheart telling his troops aboutall the wonderful things they're going
to do once they get to Jerusalem.
Wow.
Very interesting.
And then on top of it, the basilicawas destroyed during the revolution of
(28:14):
1789 by overzealous revolutionaries.
And it wasn't restoreduntil the mid-1850s.
I think it was during the reign ofNapoleon III who was very big on
restoring a lot of the things thatwere destroyed during the revolution.
It's very well restored, andthere it sits awaiting your eyes
(28:34):
out in the middle of nowhere.
Wow.
That's got to be... It looks stunning.
I'm looking at photos.
It looks beautiful.
And it too, Vézelayit's smaller than Laon.
I think the population is lessthan 1,000 people, but it's a
beautiful little hilltop town,again, for defensive purposes.
It's good to have hilltop towns.
(28:56):
Yeah, so I'm looking on Wikipedia,it says that the municipal population
is 464 inhabitants in 2022.
Sounds about right.
Yeah.
So that's very, very small.
And with a surprisinglybeautiful, beautiful church.
It's another one of these beautifultop of the hill type of village,
(29:17):
with a very gorgeous cathedral, orbasilica, and a few stately buildings.
It looks like it's very nice.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Beautiful little town.
Excellent.
So if you are visiting that partof France, which I fully intend
to visit more myself, this isprobably the part of France by now
(29:39):
that I know the least because itjust seems to be out of the way.
But, you know, sometimes I thinkI should stop doing so many
activities, like writing VoiceMaptours and just go visit France.
Like, just go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know?
That's... You guys have tempted meso long, I might just go do that.
(30:01):
Well, Vézelay is really worthit, and beautiful hotels there.
You know, Vézelay still alsoattracts, at least according to the
people I spoke to in the town, itstill attracts religious pilgrims.
Not a lot, not like, youknow, La Compostelle or those
other famous pilgrimages.
Because there was an abbey thereas well, it's still considered an
(30:22):
important religious historical site.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
Fantastic.
You went to Alesia.
Now, another one I don'tknow anything about.
I want to hear about that.
Alesia.
Okay.
I wanted to visit this because I'ma fan of Roman history, and as you
(30:42):
know, I'm a fan of military history.
So Alesia supposedly, at least accordingto all the experts of the time, and very
few have managed to disprove them, thatis where Julius Caesar, I think it was
around 32 BC, finally conquered the Gauls.
And basically turned most ofEastern France and Southern
(31:05):
France into Rome, Roman territory.
So this was a very famous battle sitewhere Vercingetorix, chief of the Gauls,
holed himself up on another hilltop town,and Julius Caesar said, "Oh, okay, no
big deal. We'll just surround the townwith a wall and we're just going to
stay here until you starve to death."
(31:26):
And that worked out fine until thebuddies of Vercingetorix showed up,
according to Roman historians, 250,000of them, all these mad Gauls, you know.
And so Julius Caesar says, "No,we're not going to leave here. We're
going to build a second wall toprotect us from the other Gauls."
(31:46):
So there they sat and they foughtseveral battles back and forth, and
finally the Gauls on the outside gave up.
And eventually Vercingetorix fromthe inside gave up and surrendered
himself to Julius Caesar.
Julius Caesar hauls him off toRome, lets him sit in prison
there I think for six years, andeventually publicly executes him.
(32:07):
And the Romans have throw a big party likethey like to do after they conquer people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Vercingetorix is a very famous name.
I mean, you've told me moreabout him than I ever knew.
So you know, it's so long ago.
But if you read Asterix, thecartoons, you'll hear the name.
But Alésia is not a town, is it?
(32:28):
Is it just a battlefield?
It's just a battlefield, but atthe top of the hill, aside from the
statue of Vercingetorix, there'sRoman ruins up on top of the hill.
So apparently after Julius Caesar won,as they were known to do, he parceled out
the land to his soldiers, and they builtthis fully functional town on top of the
(32:53):
hill, which you can go visit the ruins of.
All right.
So this Alésia that we're talkingabout is just northwest of Dijon.
It's not a town.
The town is called Venarey-les-Laumes,but there's a Muséoparc d'Alésia,
so there's a museum there, andthat's probably what you visited.
(33:17):
Yes, yes.
There's three big things to seethere, the statue of Vercingetorix,
the hilltop ruins of the Roman townthat was there, which are very well
preserved, and then also the Muséo...
Muséoparc d'Alésia.
Yeah, yeah.
This looks cool.
It is cool.
(33:37):
That is one of the coolestmuseums I've ever visited.
You can go in there and playwith Gaulish and Roman weapons.
Yeah, you can put themon and pick up swords.
And it's in the middle of nowherebecause it's surrounded by little
villages that nobody's ever heard of.
Right, right, not even villages,they're like little hamlets
(34:01):
of a couple of hundred people.
Beautiful countryside.
So, it's on the D905 betweenMontbard and Vitteau.
Wow.
This is definitely off thebeaten track here, Gregg.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's not too far from Dijon.
If you're visiting Dijon, and you havea car, is that where you were staying
(34:24):
in Dijon when you visited this place?
No, no, we were staying in Vézelay.
Oh, you were staying in Vézelay.
Okay.
Yeah, which is not very far,let's see Vézelay, from this
Muséoparc is just an hour, a littlemore than an hour to the west.
Yeah, you just zip down, I think it's theA6 that'll take you most of the way there.
(34:48):
But then you have to get off and onceagain drive through the middle of nowhere.
The people at the museum, they weresurprised to see Americans there.
And they also said that, more or less,the only visitors they get are busloads
full of schoolchildren that are thereon trips to learn about French history.
Right, right.
That would have been cool, man.
I would have loved to do that as a kid.
(35:09):
I think I would love to do it now.
And if you go there during thesummer, they have battle reenactments
between Gauls and Romans.
You can go and see them.
Yeah, yeah, fight it out.
Pretending to slaughtereach other, you know.
Fun.
These guys have fun.
That's great fun.
No, no actual blood please.
Right.
(35:31):
All right.
We have time to talk aboutone more place, and then we're
going to have to stop chatting.
What's the last place you want to sharewith us that you particularly enjoyed?
This is another place offthe beaten path, and that is
Colombey-les, Les Deux Églises.
Ah, yes.
Okay.
I know more about that one.
Okay.
Have you been there?
No, I have not.
(35:51):
Oh, okay.
But I have heard about itbecause of De Gaulle, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay, do tell.
Okay.
This was the place where De Gaulledecided to buy a home and settle, I
think in the late 40s after he finally,I guess retired, I think he called
it withdrawing from public life.
(36:13):
Correct.
Yes, because there was a referendum,and he lost the referendum,
and so he said, "Okay, I quit."
Yeah.
So, he bought a house overthere, which you can still visit.
It's a very modest house.
I have to tell you, I'm a fan of Charlesde Gaulle insofar as I see zero evidence
that he was ever tempted by corruption.
(36:33):
Yes.
Just nothing.
You know, the man had France atheart, and that was it for him.
If he could just workfor France, he's fine.
None of his children died rich.
He didn't die rich.
He had this very modest houseout in the middle of nowhere.
again, there's another museumthere which is a very good museum.
It tracks both the history of Franceduring his lifetime and his life.
(36:58):
So you get to see just everything,you know, if you're a fan of World
War II in the French perspective,it really brings it to life.
You know, him having to flee toEngland and the broadcasts and then
what he did, you know, once D-Daywas launched and things like that.
Do you remember what the museum is called?
Ooh, good question.
(37:18):
I'll try and find it andput it in the show notes.
You can't miss it when you'redriving towards it, because there's
that humongous Cross de Lorraine.
La Cross de Lorraine, yes.
Yes.
Right.
He is buried there, right?
Yes, he's buried there.
I visited his grave.
I think I sent you apicture of that as well.
Extremely modest grave,just him and his family.
(37:38):
Yeah, normal French grave.
Normal French grave, but the reallyimpressive thing, aside from his house
and the museum, the thing that impressedme the most were if you go into the
graveyard next to the church are all theplaques from all these groups of people
in France thanking him for what he did.
(37:59):
And that was very, very moving.
Well, you know, I mean, if we can talkpolitics for just a second, de Gaulle
wasn't wrong about a lot of things.
I know he pissed off a lot of English andAmerican generals because he was so dead
set on keeping them away from France.
Yeah, yeah.
(38:19):
But recent events have shown usthat you have to be self-sustained
when it comes to your defense.
You just have to.
When I'm practicing French with Frenchfriends, and they complain about
American things kind of invading Frenchculture, the thing I say to them in
French is, "De Gaulle was right. TheAmericans are the new imperialists, but
(38:44):
they're doing it culturally. They'renot doing it, you know, by marching
into your country, they're doing itby selling you Levi's 501s, you know?"
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Which French people are all too happyto purchase because there is a lot
of ... there is a lot of you know,they're great products made in ... I
mean, like, right now there is thiskind of movement, nascent movement
(39:08):
to buy EU, and it's really hard toreplace a lot of American both platforms
and products with EU-based ones.
Because we have just relied onAmerican-made goods and, you know,
software, kind of cloud thingiesthat are really well done and at a
(39:31):
good price, and we just use them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it ... We'll see how this leads us.
But, yeah, I have greatadmiration for De Gaulle myself.
Obviously, he was out of powerbefore I was born, so bit too
young to have seen him in action.
I love his sense of humor.
Yeah.
If you ever see him in actionwith journalists, his sense of
(39:54):
humor is just so dry, you know?
You really have to be in tune with whathe's saying in order to get his jokes.
Yes, yes.
And he was this kind of stick of aman, really tall and really thin and
striking in that way as well because hestood out one head above most people.
(40:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, interesting.
Well, this has been a very wonderfulconversation because I appreciate
that you've given me the desireto go see places that I genuinely
had never really considered, anda lot of them are around Dijon.
It's interesting.
I think I need to spend some time in thatarea because I just don't know it, like,
(40:38):
you know, around Vézelay and all that.
And probably Vézelay would be a goodplace to base yourself out of, right, if
you want a more of a rural place to stayrather than the city of Dijon, obviously.
Colombey has quite a few hotels in it too.
Colombey-les-Deux-Églises.
I got the distinct impression that that'sanother place where French schoolchildren
get bused to in order to ... You know?
(41:00):
"Look, here's our history." You know?
"You have to learn this."
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Fantastic.
Well, Gregg, thank you somuch for talking to me again.
Yes, this is your secondtime on the podcast.
I hope you have many moregreat trips to France.
Are you ever coming south, though?
You have this habit ofstaying to the north a lot.
You know, one thing that Idon't like is hot weather.
(41:22):
I think I will visit the south,but I'll do it in the wintertime.
Yes, yes.
Wonderful.
Well, Gregg, thank you so much,and wishing you many more happy
trips to France and no morevisits to any French hospitals.
At least not rural hospitals.
Merci beaucoup.
(41:43):
Okay.
Thank you, Annie.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
(42:09):
And a special shout out this week to mynew Join Us in France champions, Trish,
and thank you, Elizabeth Parks andBeverly Brown for editing your pledge up.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 a month,but if you can afford it, of course, I
would love to have you pledge more so youcan have access to more of the rewards.
(42:32):
Go to patreon.com/joinus and to supportElyse, go to patreon.com/elysart.
This week I published the rerunof my Zoom meeting with patrons.
Always a lot of fun.
Thank you to the many of you who show up.
It's always wonderful talking to you.
(42:53):
Somebody left this reviewof my tour this week.
That's the one I've chosento read, there's been many,
but this person wrote, "Wow.
I just finished the audiotour for The Marais.
I truly enjoyed every minute of it.
I would have missed so manyhistoric sites if I just walked
around looking and shopping.
Annie was very informative and thedirections were so easy to follow.
(43:15):
I usually cannot follow Google walkingmaps, so I was impressed that Annie
kept me on track with her directions.
I will definitely do somemore of her audio tours."
Well, thank you very much whoever you are.
And podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website,
and it's best for me as well, becauseI get to keep more of what you pay
(43:36):
instead of giving it to Apple or Google.
To use your code, open VoiceMap,tap Tour Codes at the bottom right,
enter the code and download the tour.
You don't have to use yourtour credit immediately.
It just sits in youraccount until you're ready.
Want to use it on a different device?
You can also do that.
(43:57):
Log into your account.
And you can also listen in virtualplayback from anywhere in the
world, so that's perfect if Parisis not in your immediate plan.
Take me in your pocket with VoiceMap.
If you're planning a trip to France,you know your vacation time is precious
and you don't want to waste timechasing tips and outdated information.
(44:19):
That's where my itineraryconsults come in.
Run your ideas by me, and I'll helpsteer you in the right direction for you.
You'll spend less time worrying aboutyour trip and more time enjoying France.
If you want to learn more, you goto joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
All right, let's talk aboutthose strikes coming up.
(44:40):
Usually I'm pretty cool cucumberabout strikes, but I think
these are going to be a bit big.
So heads up, if you're planning tobe in France the week of September
8th, again, that starts tomorrow,keep an eye on your calendar and on
transit apps because there's a majorround of strikes to be expected with
(45:01):
widespread discontent bubbling over.
And while it's hard to predictexactly who will join in, the
mood feels sour this time around.
So what can you expect?
There's going to beuncertainty ahead of time.
No one knows in advance exactlyhow many people will strike.
(45:22):
Strike participation often becomes clearonly the day before or sometimes even
the morning of, that's why websiteslike cestlagreve.fr are helpful.
But keep in mind they're often based ondeclarations and plans, not final numbers.
The second thing you can expectis delays, not total shutdown.
(45:46):
Even during major strikes, notall services grind to a halt.
Some trains may run, certain metrolines will run, some RERs will run, but
they might operate on reduced schedule.
Buses often still run.
Expect delays, cancellations,crowding, that sort of thing.
(46:07):
For high-risk travelers, just stay put.
If you're really risk-averse or on atight schedule, your safest bet is to
stay in the city you are already in ratherthan attempting long distance travel.
What you can do instead?
Well, obviously monitor the appsyou used to book flights, trains or
(46:30):
ferries, they typically send real-timeupdates if your travel is disrupted.
You can check cestlagreve.fr eachevening for an idea of where walkouts
are planned, but remember, plans canand do change on very short notice.
Plan for flexibility.
(46:50):
If your journey is nonessential orreschedulable, I guess, consider
postponing or rearranging, especiallyif you'll be traveling between cities.
Stay calm and informed, strikes can beinconvenient, but seldom catastrophic.
Alert apps, official transport websites,and your lodgings will help you navigate.
(47:15):
And if you really must get from A toB that day, rent a car, reserve a car.
You can drive, okay?
And there's also apolitical twist this time.
Adding to the uncertainty, theprime minister, the French prime
minister, obviously, has announceda vote of confidence in parliament,
(47:35):
which she is expected to lose.
That could trigger snap elections,meaning that even if you make it through
flustered train platforms and packedmetros, the broader political shifts
could ripple through public servicesand schedules over the coming weeks.
(47:56):
So let me recap.
Number one, expect delays, butnot everything will be shut down.
Number two, use your bookingapps for real-time alerts.
Number three, check c'estlagreve.frbut understand it's not a guarantee.
Number four, consider stayingput if you're very risk averse.
(48:18):
And number five, political developmentsmay add more uncertainty for the
next few weeks I would think.
So easy travels is not guaranteed thisweek, but with a bit of flexibility
and attention, you can ride it out.
Safe travels and, you know, haveyour croissant apps ready, I guess.
(48:40):
That's what I do is just, ugh, grabanother croissant and a bottle of
water and hopefully it'll pass.
Air quality in Paris.
This is great news.
According to a new study byAirparif, the city's air has become
much cleaner over the past decade.
Between 2012 and 2022, air pollutiondropped by nearly 40%, an improvement
(49:06):
the mayor of Paris calls unprecedented.
How did this happen?
Well, it's a mix of European rulesrequiring cleaner cars, Paris's low
emission zones, and policies thatreduce space for cars in the city.
Add in cleaner heating systemsand industrial improvements,
(49:27):
and the results are clear.
Less nitrogen dioxide, fewerfine particles, and better
air for Parisians to breathe.
The health impact is huge.
Air pollution is linked to respiratoryand heart disease, and Paris used to
see about 1,800 premature deaths a yearfrom dirty air, but Airparif reports
(49:53):
that deaths linked to fine particleshave dropped by nearly a third.
That means thousands of lives saved.
And the best part, expertssay this is not the limit.
Pollution levels in Paris are stillabove World Health Organization
guidelines, but there's room toimprove even more before 2030 when
(50:17):
tougher European standards kick in.
In other words, the policiesare working and Paris could cut
another 40% in the next decade.
So while the City of Light still haswork to do, the air Parisians breathe
is cleaner, healthier, and heading inthe right direction, which is wonderful.
(50:37):
Let's talk about the EES and
ETIAS in France because there'sbeen a lot of confusion, a
lot of questions about this.
So first, EES, that'sthe entry exit system.
You don't need to doanything or pay anything.
The first time you arrive,they'll take your fingerprints
and link them to your passport.
(50:58):
After that, it's all automated.
I noticed the machines werealready installed at CDG
recently, though not in use yet.
I expect they'll be switched on verysoon and there's been systems like
that going into the US for a long time.
So this is just something we'reimplementing in France, that
(51:19):
has been around for a long time.
Now, the ETIAS, E-T-I-A-S,that's different.
That one will require actionahead of time and a small fee.
The good news is that there'sa six-month rollout period.
So if you forget to do it atfirst, you won't be denied entry.
And honestly, since this program hasbeen delayed again and again, the
(51:42):
latest pushback is to the end of 2026.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
When it does launch, don't stress,I've done similar electronic
entry permits in places like theUK, the US for French citizens.
Both took only a few minutes.
You just download the official app, scanyour passport, pay the fee, usually get
(52:05):
an email confirmation in 5-10 minutes.
So the bottom line is EES will happenautomatically and ETIAS will require a
little prep, but nothing dramatic andneither one should ruin your trip, okay?
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan,
(52:27):
who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, an episodeabout boot camp 2025 with a few of the
wonderful people who attended this year,and announcements about boot camp 2026.
So that's going to be exciting.
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
can look around France together.
(52:48):
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode562, cinq-cent-soixante-deux.
Bonjour.
I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Us inFrance is the podcast where we take a
conversational journey to the beauty,culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withGregg Furey about exploring France's
(00:36):
hidden gems from small towns nearParis to Vézelay, ancient caves and
the legendary battlefield of Alésia.
Gregg shares unique travel stories,practical tips, and a dash of chaos,
including a hospital adventure,making this episode a must listen
(00:56):
for anyone seeking authentic,off-the-beaten-path French experiences.
It takes more than caffeine andchocolatine to make this podcast.
It takes you.
Many of you support the show by bookingitinerary consults, using my VoiceMap
tours, joining the boot camp, ridingin my EV, or contributing on Patreon.
(01:20):
Thank you for being part of it all.
If you want to keep the show ad-freeor see what else I offer, you'll
find the link in the show notesor at joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
For the magazine part of thepodcast, after my chat with Gregg
today, I'll discuss the announcedstrikes and political difficulties
(01:43):
starting on Monday, September 8th.
That's tomorrow if you listen to thepodcast as soon as it's released.
And just so you know, thepodcast is released every
Sunday at 6:00 PM Paris time.
I'll also discuss good news about airquality in Paris and also about the
ETIAS and EES requirements in France.
(02:06):
That should start soon.
I'm not sure how to say ETIAS,but I think that's how you say it.
It's E-T-I-A-S.
Stay tuned.
Lots of news, after mychat with Gregg today.
And if you'd like a handy summary ofthe conversation with all the useful
links, subscribe to the newsletterat joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
(02:28):
It is indeed the bestway to stay in the loop.
Bonjour, Gregg, and welcometo Join Us in France.
Bonjour, Annie.
Ca va?
Ca va tres bien.
Et vous?
Je me débrouille.
(02:52):
So, we are going to talk about a tripthat you took recently to places that
most people don't go to, which is whyI was interested in talking to you.
You did this évasion caninething that I've heard about.
I want to hear about that.
You went to Alesia, you went tosome caves in Arcey-sur-Cure.
(03:14):
Anyway, you did some interesting stuff.
So, let's talk about this.
When did this trip take place?
Well, it's actually, I'mgoing back like the last three
trips that I took to France.
Okay.
And in the very last trip that I tookto France I ended up in the hospital.
So I didn't get to do a lot ofwhat I wanted to do, and then
there was a death in the family,so I had to cut the trip short.
(03:36):
Ah-huh.
Yes.
Yeah.
But before we begin, I just wanted tomention that one of my most favorite
things to do when planning trips to Francenow is I just pick a sort of a small
town, maybe 30, 40 kilometers away fromParis, and I like to just go stay there
(03:57):
for two or three days and decompress,you know, get over the jet lag.
So two trips ago, was when I endedup going to Laon, where they have the
famous cathedral with the animals onthe outside, and things like that.
So that's kind of been mymodus operandi for the last...
That's an interesting way to do this.
And how do you make yourway to those places?
(04:20):
I rent a car and I drive superslow because I'm terrified of
getting a ticket in France.
And a lot of people honk atme, but I don't care, so...
Yeah.
So you try to just go maybe 100 kilometersaway from Paris, from wherever you land?
Yeah, yeah.
Something I can drive in less thantwo hours, and discover some place
(04:43):
where tourists don't normally go.
In the first episode that we didtogether, I found Château Thierry,
was a place kind of like that.
I mean, who goes toChâteau Thierry, you know?
Well, quite a few people,actually, I think.
Well, certainly a lot ofUnited States Marines go there.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Right.
It has an interest therefor military people.
(05:04):
Well, and then, other times,I went to Fontainebleau.
And then other times I went to Melun.
My friend warned me not togo there, but I went there
anyway.
What, spell that name?
M-E-L-U-N.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Melun.
Yes.
It's not the greatest of towns, butit's very easy to access Vaux-le-Vicomte
and Fontainebleau from there.
(05:26):
Right.
So what made it not so great?
Like it didn't look scenic or didn'thave much of a historical city center?
Yeah, yeah.
The most interesting thing I found inthe city of Melun, and anybody could
do this just driving through, was theNational Museum of the Gendarmerie.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
(05:46):
That was interesting.
That was very, very interesting.
Because you got to see the evolutionof the Gendarmerie from the time
of Napoleon until modern days.
And you know, the word comes from"les gens d'armes", which is something
they use in the Conciergerie in Paris.
I know this because I justdid some research about this
for my new Gothic Paris tour.
(06:08):
So in the Conciergerie the big roomthat you enter is called La Place
des Gens d'armes, but it's spelledin two words, les gens d'armes.
So the people of the weapons.
Right.
Armed people, yeah.
And then they use thatlater, Les Gendarmes.
But to French people, if you say theorigin of the word, we don't really know,
(06:31):
if you don't think about it, it's like,"Oh, yeah." But then when somebody tells
you, you go, "Oh, sure, Les Gens d'armes.
Yes, of course."
Yeah.
Yeah, both languages have a lotof words like that, you know.
They started off as compoundwords, and then they just
become a normal one-word word.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So I'm kind of curious aboutyour hospitalization thing.
(06:52):
If you don't mind, I would like togo into that to start with, because
this is not something that happens toa lot of people, but it can happen.
You can have accidents, youcan have infections, you can
have a variety of things.
And a lot of people who visit Franceare honestly over 50, and over
50 you tend to have more issues.
So what happened to you?
Okay.
I spent, probably almost a week inVézelay, and visited a lot of interesting
(07:16):
places near there I'd like to get into.
But anyway, our plan was to drive,there were four of us, was to drive
from Vézelay, stop one night inBourges, and then continue on to Sarlat.
And if you see a map, you seeyou're driving through nothing.
I mean, it's like inthe middle of nowhere.
Okay?
So, we stopped for lunch inSancerre, a beautiful town,
(07:37):
beautiful views from up there.
But I was starving, so I decidedto go into this really, kind
of like a dive of a restaurant.
And I think I ate something bad there.
Ah-huh.
Because by the time we were in Bourgesthat night, I knew something was wrong.
And I was sick.
In fact, I was so sick that the nextday, I couldn't drive from Bourges to
(07:59):
Sarlat, and my wife had to take over.
And she did wonderfully, even havingto deal with the roundabouts which
she had never driven in before.
So, by the time we get to Sarlat,I'm so sick that I can't see
or do anything around Sarlat.
I just stayed in the hotel room.
And after about three days of beingvery, very sick and it was, you know,
(08:19):
the GI problems, I thought I had somekind of food poisoning or something.
But it wasn't quite the same.
After about three days of that, a friendof mine says, "You need to go to a lab
and get your blood tested." And thatwas something completely unusual for me.
I'd never heard of that before.
Anybody in France can just go toa lab and say, "Test my blood."
Yes.
(08:39):
So, that's what I did.
I mean, it helps if you have aprescription from your doctor who says
exactly what the doctor wants tested.
But if you just say-
I did, I did.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
So I did that.
The results came back in aboutfour hours, and my doctor friend
says, "Go to the hospital."
So, I'm not going to ignore him and Igo to the local hospital, and Daniel,
(09:01):
the owner of the B&B in Sarlat, evenbefore I went to the hospital, he
starts apologizing to me about, "Well,this is a rural hospital. It's not
going to be anything that you're usedto." And it was raining the whole
time, so, I get to the hospital.
And no one can just walk into the ER.
You have to stand outside the ER andyou have to call the national number
(09:24):
and a screener comes on and theydidn't have anybody who spoke English.
This was when I knew all theseFrench lessons have been,
they're paying off now, right?
So, I had to explain to him, thescreener, in French, what my illness
was, what all of my symptoms were.
And then after that, a doctorcomes on the line and I had to
repeat myself again to the doctor.
(09:45):
So finally, the doctor who kind ofmaybe spoke English, he says, "Okay,
we'll let you in to see the screeningnurse." So, we stood out there for
another 20 minutes wondering what'shappening and then finally I rang the
intercom, and told them who I was andthe screening nurse says, "Oh, yes.
What's taking you so long?" And thenshe came out and she got me and then
back inside, we repeated the entireprocess again of being screened.
(10:09):
Mm-hmm.
I managed to show her my test results,and then she says, "Okay, we're going
to admit you, but first you have togo to the waiting room." So, we sat in
the waiting room for about four hours.
Yeah.
And then after that I got an MRI.
I understood what theywere doing with that.
But they kept explaining themselves tome in really rapid, local dialect French.
(10:32):
And I had to keep telling them in mypassable French, you know, "Will you
please slow down? I don't understand you."
Right.
Right.
Right.
So, this is not at all ... Wasthis in the middle of the night?
By the time I got into the hospital,into the waiting room, it was about
7:00 at night, on a Saturday night.
Because, I mean, Sarlatis not a very large city.
(10:56):
They have just under 9,000 inhabitants.
So, I'm not surprised that they don'thave, you know, a full hospital.
But around Toulouse where I live,and unfortunately my husband is
prone to GI problems and so we'vehad very similar experiences.
But in Toulouse you don't have to gothrough this intercom kind of situation.
(11:19):
You walk in and you have a person infront of you, who then can manage.
The difficulty... I can't emphasize enoughthat French doctors may say that they
speak English, but I wouldn't count on it.
Because they've had school Englishjust like you've had school French
and when you get to France you'relike, "Oh, what is this?" Right?
(11:42):
Yeah.
Well, it's the same withFrench people and English.
If they've never lived outside of Francein an English-speaking country, they
never had a chance to really improvetheir English, and it complicates things.
But they got you sorted out, right?
After a few days you've
...Yeah.
They gave me an MRI.
They told me that it was in factan infection in my GI tract.
(12:03):
It wasn't food poisoning.
They insisted that I staythere for two nights.
They put me in a room with someguy that didn't speak standard
French, so I really couldn'tunderstand anything he was saying.
How do you know he didn'tspeak standard French?
Like, that's weird.
You mentioned that twice.
But I mean, Sarlat is not that ... Wedon't speak Occitan around here.
(12:25):
His family kept visiting, and I asked thenurses as well, you know, the nurses that
could speak the French that I understand.
I said, "How come I can't understandhim?" And she would say, "Oh, well,
he's just speaking the local dialect.
It's a very strong accent."
Okay.
A very strong accent, okay.
Wow.
The hospital was very run down, it waslike some place that was built in the
(12:47):
'50s and has never been remodeled ornever been upgraded except for the medical
machinery, and Daniel explained that thenational government is trying to force
the people of Sarlat to go to Bordeauxwhen they have major problems, because
they're trying to shut this hospital down.
Because, like you said, there's only a fewthousand people that live in Sarlat, so
(13:09):
...Right.
Right.
When people tell me that they wouldlike to move to France, I tell them,
"Look into this issue of désert médical,medical deserts," because the center
of France, kind of between Sarlatand all the way up to, when you get
into the Vosges and places like that,that diagonal there is just not a
(13:33):
lot of people, very, very few people.
That's why I like it.
Yeah, but when you're sick it'sa problem because you don't have
the and they would much ratheryou go to the regional hospital.
I assume this is aproblem in the US as well.
Like, you have regionalhospitals that are much better.
I'm in California now, and forinstance, the cities in the
(13:55):
very north of California, theydon't have hospitals anymore.
People have to drive all the way to SanFrancisco now because medical people
just don't want to work in these places.
In the United States theyhave no way to force them.
Right, and they don't in France either.
They incentivize them.
They give them tax breaks.
My nephew is a dentist, and he wentto work in a very small town near
(14:19):
Limoges, a little north of Limoges,for three years for tax breaks.
He was supposed to staythere for five years.
He couldn't make it.
He broke the contract.
He's going to pay the taxes, andhe bought a practice in Toulouse.
So, it's very difficult for youngpeople to settle in these places
because they have also a lot ofreally backwards type of people.
(14:40):
Like for the dentist, he was tellingme, "I can't believe these people. They
haven't seen a dentist in 20 years,"and then they're surprised that, you
know, there's a lot of work to be done.
And like, "Ugh, well,that's how it is," you know?
So it's hard to incentivize youngdoctors to go to these places.
They're trying to, but it didn't workin the case of my nephew, anyway.
(15:03):
I assume this did notcost you an arm and a leg.
I mean, you didn't pay very much for it.
At the end of my visit there, two nightsin the hospital, with everything, it was
a little over $2,000 cash, to check out,which was fine because my insurance in
the United States reimbursed me for that.
Okay.
Okay.
It all worked out, yeah.
(15:24):
Let's leave that behind and talk about thethings that you enjoyed the most on these
various trips that we want to talk about.
Well, Laon is a wonderful city.
I really, really enjoyed Laon.
I wrote to you earlier saying thatit was where Napoleon retreated to
after Waterloo, but I was incorrect.
Napoleon lost a battle in Laon, and ifyou go there you'll see exactly why.
(15:49):
Because it's a city up on a ... not somuch a hill as a... What do you call?
A mesa.
Okay.
Okay.
The sides of the hill are steep,so it's a town that's very easy
to defend, militarily speaking.
But it's a beautiful littletown, about 25,000 people.
And there's artwork all over town.
(16:09):
They've painted these murals ofFrench heroes, so if you're a fan
of French history, you can go seethese heroes all over the place.
And then, Monsieur Marquettecame from this town as well.
That's the guy that opened upa lot of Canada for France.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So Laon is about ... I don't know,it's a tiny bit north of Reims.
(16:34):
First of all you the name of the city,you spell L-A-O-N, and it's just a little
north of Reims, probably an hour and ahalf or something, perhaps just an hour
by car to the east, northeast of Paris.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So it would be fairly easy to getto from CDG, as a matter of fact,
(16:56):
because you don't even have to get onthe Paris belt route, or very little,
and then ... you're going northeast.
Yeah.
Oh, and that was the first time ... Iwanted to show this to you.
Maybe I'll send you a picture of it.
They have a beautiful, beautiful basilica.
That was the first timeI ever used one of these.
(17:17):
Oh, les disques.
Right.
Les disques de stationnement, yes.
So un disque de stationnement issomething you use when you are supposed
to indicate what time you arrived...
Exactly.
... because you can only stay therefor a certain number of time, and
so they will ... It might be twohours, it might be an hour, whatever.
(17:39):
How did that work in Laon?
Worked perfectly, but if you're as youknow, if you're out in rural, rural
France, they still use these things.
Yeah, they do.
... And so, if you're going tobe driving a car, you have
to go to a tabac and get one.
Your rental car didn't have one in it?
Oh, no.
No, no, no.
Huh.
Huh.
No, because I don't think they expectedme to go to the middle of nowhere, so...
(18:05):
Yeah, Laon has this beautiful cathedralwith a campanile and... so there's three
towers, as a matter of fact, and then youhave a beautiful, kind of the entryway
into the city, the old medieval entrywayinto the city is absolutely gorgeous.
It's famous, as a matter of fact.
Right.
Right.
So yeah, it would be alovely, a lovely place.
(18:28):
And the cathedral itself is veryunique because it has all the statuary
of the animals on the outs- I don'tthink any other cathedral has this.
Yeah, no, not that I can think of.
And then when I was in the cathedral, Ilearned about why they put the statuary of
the cows on the outside of the cathedral,because according to the legend, when
(18:50):
they were building the cathedral, thelocal cows came and volunteered their
labor, to help them haul the stonesup the hill to build the cathedral.
And then once the cathedralwas built, they quit.
So they see it as some kind of a miracle,you know, that they had these faithful
cows helping them build the cathedral.
(19:10):
In many ways, medieval people had a moreprogressive way of handling animals.
To them, first of all, it was ararity to own either a cow or a horse
or a large, or even a donkey, youknow, a large animal of that sort.
These were precious belongings, I guess,they were always belongings, but they were
(19:33):
precious because they were rare, and youcould do a lot of cool stuff with them.
And they did not eat them as a rule.
Like, they would not... in a famine,that was the last thing you would eat.
You would eat your chickens and yourducks, even your dogs and cats, but
not the horses and the cows because,well, they can give you milk, you know,
(19:56):
and you can make cheese out of that.
So it's really... They had a very, Ithink a very good type of relationship
with large animals, and they eventhought that they were answerable to God.
There's a very funny story of whenthe people said that this horse was
evil because it was kicking people,whatever, and the bishop refused to
(20:20):
condemn it to death, even though thetown had judged the horse to be evil-
Mm-hmm.
... and were trying to force his owner to putit to death, and the bishop said, "No,
we can't do that." But they thought ofanimals like having a agency, I guess.
Animals could be either evil or not.
(20:41):
well, that's great.
Laon looks like a lovely citythat perhaps people should put
on their radar for a visit.
And I wanted to add too that,every restaurant we ate in there,
at least all the ones near thecathedral, were just excellent, just
really excellent and not expensive.
That's another thing I love aboutgoing, you know, far away from Paris.
(21:02):
You get great hotel rooms at notmuch cost, and the food is half
the cost that it is in Paris.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Wonderful.
Great recommendation.
Yeah.
Another thing that I did in Laon was totake a tour of the underside of the city.
I think they called itthe Souterrain tour.
It's offered in English.
(21:23):
And there they show you how theymined the stone from underneath the
city in order to build the cathedral.
And that was very interesting.
I've never seen anything like thatanywhere in Paris, even though obviously
Paris was built the same way, you know?
They go underneath, get the solid rock,and then bring it up to the surface.
(21:44):
That was very, veryinteresting, tour well worth it.
Yep.
And they use these machines calledécureuil, which means squirrel.
It's a very hard word for Americansto say, écureuil, it's like a wheel...
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a human hamster wheel.
Yes.
It's used to lift stones, and veryheavy things out of quarry or to the
(22:07):
top of cathedrals as a matter of fact.
These were very common implements,just like we see cranes today, well,
they used to see écureuil all the time.
Yeah.
And don't forget, everyone isworking down there by candlelight.
That's true.
In the souterrain, yes, in thetunnels, that's how you would do it.
Yep.
Wow.
That sounds like a fun activity.
(22:28):
Do they have, like, localspecialties, food things that
you had never tried before?
I... No, I don't think so.
Nothing that came to mind.
Like I said, all the foodthere, though, was just great.
That's great.
All right, what else did youdo that you want to mention?
Let me see.
In Laon we stayed therefor about three days.
I'd say you could see itin two days, you know?
(22:50):
It's a city worth two days.
Yeah.
No, that's about it for that city, andthen this last trip, we went to Vézelay.
Aha.
Now that was where we found alot of interesting things to do.
First off, it was raining.
We were there in September.
And so the first thing we did, because itwas raining, was we decided to visit the
(23:13):
nearby caves, La Grotte d'Arcy-sur-Cure.
This was an unknown hidden gem,also out in the middle of nowhere.
It was about 20 minutes fromVézelay, it's privately owned.
I think the farmer owns the land on topof the cave, and the family owns the land
up there but it was a very interestingcave, and one thing that I learned while I
(23:36):
was there, I took a picture of the posteras well, I think I sent it to you, is
that, it's not just in the Dordogne wherethey have caves full of Neolithic art.
They're all over France.
There are 76 of them on that poster andmost of them are Monuments Nationaux.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, they're protected by the governmentand the government makes sure that
(24:00):
people don't go in there and tagit or, in general, hurt anything.
So we arrived there and we managedto get in on a tour which was only
in French, but the guide was so nice.
At the end of every littlepresentation, he would try to explain
to us a little bit in English.
It was very nice.
So, the Neolithic art in there, is almostas old as the art in the caves down south,
(24:23):
and of course it's the same style, andyou can see things in there like, little
children's hand prints on the wall.
It's just amazing.
This cave goes back, I would say itgoes back for a good third of a mile,
maybe half a kilometer, and theyalso discovered music in this cave,
and if you go on YouTube and youlook up, there was this group that
(24:46):
did a concert in there, ASA, A-S-A.
You just look it up on YouTube.
You can see the concertthat they did in the cave.
Another interesting thing about thiscave is that it is one of the few caves
in France where there are also Romanremains because there's a small lake in
this cave, and in there they have foundartifacts from Roman pagan worship.
(25:10):
The Romans used to go in thereand make offerings to their gods.
Interesting.
Yeah, so, like you mentioned,there are painted caves all over
Europe, as a matter of fact.
It's just that the paint has fadedbecause they have been exposed
to the elements, and some ofthem are still to be discovered.
There has to be an incident at somepoint that closed off the entrance.
(25:35):
Otherwise, all of this work disappearsbecause, I mean, we're talking, you
know, some of these are centuries old.
Yeah.
Thousands, thousands of years old.
The guide for this particularcave was saying that they think
these are around 30,000 years old.
Right, so that makes them quite old.
Yeah.
During the last Ice Age, this is wherepeople holed up and managed to survive.
(25:59):
Yeah.
And they don't really know what theydid in these places, that's why doing
music in them is interesting, becausethe acoustics is usually pretty good, at
least in some parts of them, and so theywonder if these were places that were
used for religious ceremonies of somesort, or ... they don't have remnants that
(26:21):
show that people lived in the caves longterm, which makes sense because caves is,
you know, we say caveman, but you can'tlive in a cave if you're not a mountain
lion or a bear or an animal like that.
These are the animals that wouldgo hibernate in the caves, and
you did not want to disturb them.
People typically lived in shallowshelters, so still kind of holes
(26:46):
in the wall, but shallow walls thatthey could just cover the front of,
and be protected from the elements.
The caves of Arcy-sur-Cure soundslike a really fun thing to visit,
and it's not far from Vézelay.
So I didn't tell you where Vézelayis, and this is not a town that
most people will have heard of.
(27:08):
So that's southeast of Paris, butquite a long way, the nearest big city,
it's between Dijon and Bourges....and a little bit to the north of that.
So, you know, middleof nowhere, definitely.
Yeah.
The claim to fame of Vézelay, and oneof the reasons I wanted to see it,
(27:29):
was because in their basilica is whereRichard the Lionheart met his troops,
and the pope joined him there too.
And the pope gave him the blessingto go away on the second crusade.
Uh-huh.
And so when you go there you can seethat the opening of the basilica is,
the doors are big enough that you canride your horse into the courtyard.
(27:52):
It's much different than most churches.
And around the courtyard is a balcony.
And you can imagine the pope up there,you know, doing his thing, and Richard
the Lionheart telling his troops aboutall the wonderful things they're going
to do once they get to Jerusalem.
Wow.
Very interesting.
And then on top of it, the basilicawas destroyed during the revolution of
(28:14):
1789 by overzealous revolutionaries.
And it wasn't restoreduntil the mid-1850s.
I think it was during the reign ofNapoleon III who was very big on
restoring a lot of the things thatwere destroyed during the revolution.
It's very well restored, andthere it sits awaiting your eyes
(28:34):
out in the middle of nowhere.
Wow.
That's got to be... It looks stunning.
I'm looking at photos.
It looks beautiful.
And it too, Vézelayit's smaller than Laon.
I think the population is lessthan 1,000 people, but it's a
beautiful little hilltop town,again, for defensive purposes.
It's good to have hilltop towns.
(28:56):
Yeah, so I'm looking on Wikipedia,it says that the municipal population
is 464 inhabitants in 2022.
Sounds about right.
Yeah.
So that's very, very small.
And with a surprisinglybeautiful, beautiful church.
It's another one of these beautifultop of the hill type of village,
(29:17):
with a very gorgeous cathedral, orbasilica, and a few stately buildings.
It looks like it's very nice.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Beautiful little town.
Excellent.
So if you are visiting that partof France, which I fully intend
to visit more myself, this isprobably the part of France by now
(29:39):
that I know the least because itjust seems to be out of the way.
But, you know, sometimes I thinkI should stop doing so many
activities, like writing VoiceMaptours and just go visit France.
Like, just go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know?
That's... You guys have tempted meso long, I might just go do that.
(30:01):
Well, Vézelay is really worthit, and beautiful hotels there.
You know, Vézelay still alsoattracts, at least according to the
people I spoke to in the town, itstill attracts religious pilgrims.
Not a lot, not like, youknow, La Compostelle or those
other famous pilgrimages.
Because there was an abbey thereas well, it's still considered an
(30:22):
important religious historical site.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
Fantastic.
You went to Alesia.
Now, another one I don'tknow anything about.
I want to hear about that.
Alesia.
Okay.
I wanted to visit this because I'ma fan of Roman history, and as you
(30:42):
know, I'm a fan of military history.
So Alesia supposedly, at least accordingto all the experts of the time, and very
few have managed to disprove them, thatis where Julius Caesar, I think it was
around 32 BC, finally conquered the Gauls.
And basically turned most ofEastern France and Southern
(31:05):
France into Rome, Roman territory.
So this was a very famous battle sitewhere Vercingetorix, chief of the Gauls,
holed himself up on another hilltop town,and Julius Caesar said, "Oh, okay, no
big deal. We'll just surround the townwith a wall and we're just going to
stay here until you starve to death."
(31:26):
And that worked out fine until thebuddies of Vercingetorix showed up,
according to Roman historians, 250,000of them, all these mad Gauls, you know.
And so Julius Caesar says, "No,we're not going to leave here. We're
going to build a second wall toprotect us from the other Gauls."
(31:46):
So there they sat and they foughtseveral battles back and forth, and
finally the Gauls on the outside gave up.
And eventually Vercingetorix fromthe inside gave up and surrendered
himself to Julius Caesar.
Julius Caesar hauls him off toRome, lets him sit in prison
there I think for six years, andeventually publicly executes him.
(32:07):
And the Romans have throw a big party likethey like to do after they conquer people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Vercingetorix is a very famous name.
I mean, you've told me moreabout him than I ever knew.
So you know, it's so long ago.
But if you read Asterix, thecartoons, you'll hear the name.
But Alésia is not a town, is it?
(32:28):
Is it just a battlefield?
It's just a battlefield, but atthe top of the hill, aside from the
statue of Vercingetorix, there'sRoman ruins up on top of the hill.
So apparently after Julius Caesar won,as they were known to do, he parceled out
the land to his soldiers, and they builtthis fully functional town on top of the
(32:53):
hill, which you can go visit the ruins of.
All right.
So this Alésia that we're talkingabout is just northwest of Dijon.
It's not a town.
The town is called Venarey-les-Laumes,but there's a Muséoparc d'Alésia,
so there's a museum there, andthat's probably what you visited.
(33:17):
Yes, yes.
There's three big things to seethere, the statue of Vercingetorix,
the hilltop ruins of the Roman townthat was there, which are very well
preserved, and then also the Muséo...
Muséoparc d'Alésia.
Yeah, yeah.
This looks cool.
It is cool.
(33:37):
That is one of the coolestmuseums I've ever visited.
You can go in there and playwith Gaulish and Roman weapons.
Yeah, you can put themon and pick up swords.
And it's in the middle of nowherebecause it's surrounded by little
villages that nobody's ever heard of.
Right, right, not even villages,they're like little hamlets
(34:01):
of a couple of hundred people.
Beautiful countryside.
So, it's on the D905 betweenMontbard and Vitteau.
Wow.
This is definitely off thebeaten track here, Gregg.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's not too far from Dijon.
If you're visiting Dijon, and you havea car, is that where you were staying
(34:24):
in Dijon when you visited this place?
No, no, we were staying in Vézelay.
Oh, you were staying in Vézelay.
Okay.
Yeah, which is not very far,let's see Vézelay, from this
Muséoparc is just an hour, a littlemore than an hour to the west.
Yeah, you just zip down, I think it's theA6 that'll take you most of the way there.
(34:48):
But then you have to get off and onceagain drive through the middle of nowhere.
The people at the museum, they weresurprised to see Americans there.
And they also said that, more or less,the only visitors they get are busloads
full of schoolchildren that are thereon trips to learn about French history.
Right, right.
That would have been cool, man.
I would have loved to do that as a kid.
(35:09):
I think I would love to do it now.
And if you go there during thesummer, they have battle reenactments
between Gauls and Romans.
You can go and see them.
Yeah, yeah, fight it out.
Pretending to slaughtereach other, you know.
Fun.
These guys have fun.
That's great fun.
No, no actual blood please.
Right.
(35:31):
All right.
We have time to talk aboutone more place, and then we're
going to have to stop chatting.
What's the last place you want to sharewith us that you particularly enjoyed?
This is another place offthe beaten path, and that is
Colombey-les, Les Deux Églises.
Ah, yes.
Okay.
I know more about that one.
Okay.
Have you been there?
No, I have not.
(35:51):
Oh, okay.
But I have heard about itbecause of De Gaulle, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay, do tell.
Okay.
This was the place where De Gaulledecided to buy a home and settle, I
think in the late 40s after he finally,I guess retired, I think he called
it withdrawing from public life.
(36:13):
Correct.
Yes, because there was a referendum,and he lost the referendum,
and so he said, "Okay, I quit."
Yeah.
So, he bought a house overthere, which you can still visit.
It's a very modest house.
I have to tell you, I'm a fan of Charlesde Gaulle insofar as I see zero evidence
that he was ever tempted by corruption.
(36:33):
Yes.
Just nothing.
You know, the man had France atheart, and that was it for him.
If he could just workfor France, he's fine.
None of his children died rich.
He didn't die rich.
He had this very modest houseout in the middle of nowhere.
again, there's another museumthere which is a very good museum.
It tracks both the history of Franceduring his lifetime and his life.
(36:58):
So you get to see just everything,you know, if you're a fan of World
War II in the French perspective,it really brings it to life.
You know, him having to flee toEngland and the broadcasts and then
what he did, you know, once D-Daywas launched and things like that.
Do you remember what the museum is called?
Ooh, good question.
(37:18):
I'll try and find it andput it in the show notes.
You can't miss it when you'redriving towards it, because there's
that humongous Cross de Lorraine.
La Cross de Lorraine, yes.
Yes.
Right.
He is buried there, right?
Yes, he's buried there.
I visited his grave.
I think I sent you apicture of that as well.
Extremely modest grave,just him and his family.
(37:38):
Yeah, normal French grave.
Normal French grave, but the reallyimpressive thing, aside from his house
and the museum, the thing that impressedme the most were if you go into the
graveyard next to the church are all theplaques from all these groups of people
in France thanking him for what he did.
(37:59):
And that was very, very moving.
Well, you know, I mean, if we can talkpolitics for just a second, de Gaulle
wasn't wrong about a lot of things.
I know he pissed off a lot of English andAmerican generals because he was so dead
set on keeping them away from France.
Yeah, yeah.
(38:19):
But recent events have shown usthat you have to be self-sustained
when it comes to your defense.
You just have to.
When I'm practicing French with Frenchfriends, and they complain about
American things kind of invading Frenchculture, the thing I say to them in
French is, "De Gaulle was right. TheAmericans are the new imperialists, but
(38:44):
they're doing it culturally. They'renot doing it, you know, by marching
into your country, they're doing itby selling you Levi's 501s, you know?"
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Which French people are all too happyto purchase because there is a lot
of ... there is a lot of you know,they're great products made in ... I
mean, like, right now there is thiskind of movement, nascent movement
(39:08):
to buy EU, and it's really hard toreplace a lot of American both platforms
and products with EU-based ones.
Because we have just relied onAmerican-made goods and, you know,
software, kind of cloud thingiesthat are really well done and at a
(39:31):
good price, and we just use them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it ... We'll see how this leads us.
But, yeah, I have greatadmiration for De Gaulle myself.
Obviously, he was out of powerbefore I was born, so bit too
young to have seen him in action.
I love his sense of humor.
Yeah.
If you ever see him in actionwith journalists, his sense of
(39:54):
humor is just so dry, you know?
You really have to be in tune with whathe's saying in order to get his jokes.
Yes, yes.
And he was this kind of stick of aman, really tall and really thin and
striking in that way as well because hestood out one head above most people.
(40:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, interesting.
Well, this has been a very wonderfulconversation because I appreciate
that you've given me the desireto go see places that I genuinely
had never really considered, anda lot of them are around Dijon.
It's interesting.
I think I need to spend some time in thatarea because I just don't know it, like,
(40:38):
you know, around Vézelay and all that.
And probably Vézelay would be a goodplace to base yourself out of, right, if
you want a more of a rural place to stayrather than the city of Dijon, obviously.
Colombey has quite a few hotels in it too.
Colombey-les-Deux-Églises.
I got the distinct impression that that'sanother place where French schoolchildren
get bused to in order to ... You know?
(41:00):
"Look, here's our history." You know?
"You have to learn this."
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Fantastic.
Well, Gregg, thank you somuch for talking to me again.
Yes, this is your secondtime on the podcast.
I hope you have many moregreat trips to France.
Are you ever coming south, though?
You have this habit ofstaying to the north a lot.
You know, one thing that Idon't like is hot weather.
(41:22):
I think I will visit the south,but I'll do it in the wintertime.
Yes, yes.
Wonderful.
Well, Gregg, thank you so much,and wishing you many more happy
trips to France and no morevisits to any French hospitals.
At least not rural hospitals.
Merci beaucoup.
(41:43):
Okay.
Thank you, Annie.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
(42:09):
And a special shout out this week to mynew Join Us in France champions, Trish,
and thank you, Elizabeth Parks andBeverly Brown for editing your pledge up.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 a month,but if you can afford it, of course, I
would love to have you pledge more so youcan have access to more of the rewards.
(42:32):
Go to patreon.com/joinus and to supportElyse, go to patreon.com/elysart.
This week I published the rerunof my Zoom meeting with patrons.
Always a lot of fun.
Thank you to the many of you who show up.
It's always wonderful talking to you.
(42:53):
Somebody left this reviewof my tour this week.
That's the one I've chosento read, there's been many,
but this person wrote, "Wow.
I just finished the audiotour for The Marais.
I truly enjoyed every minute of it.
I would have missed so manyhistoric sites if I just walked
around looking and shopping.
Annie was very informative and thedirections were so easy to follow.
(43:15):
I usually cannot follow Google walkingmaps, so I was impressed that Annie
kept me on track with her directions.
I will definitely do somemore of her audio tours."
Well, thank you very much whoever you are.
And podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website,
and it's best for me as well, becauseI get to keep more of what you pay
(43:36):
instead of giving it to Apple or Google.
To use your code, open VoiceMap,tap Tour Codes at the bottom right,
enter the code and download the tour.
You don't have to use yourtour credit immediately.
It just sits in youraccount until you're ready.
Want to use it on a different device?
You can also do that.
(43:57):
Log into your account.
And you can also listen in virtualplayback from anywhere in the
world, so that's perfect if Parisis not in your immediate plan.
Take me in your pocket with VoiceMap.
If you're planning a trip to France,you know your vacation time is precious
and you don't want to waste timechasing tips and outdated information.
(44:19):
That's where my itineraryconsults come in.
Run your ideas by me, and I'll helpsteer you in the right direction for you.
You'll spend less time worrying aboutyour trip and more time enjoying France.
If you want to learn more, you goto joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
All right, let's talk aboutthose strikes coming up.
(44:40):
Usually I'm pretty cool cucumberabout strikes, but I think
these are going to be a bit big.
So heads up, if you're planning tobe in France the week of September
8th, again, that starts tomorrow,keep an eye on your calendar and on
transit apps because there's a majorround of strikes to be expected with
(45:01):
widespread discontent bubbling over.
And while it's hard to predictexactly who will join in, the
mood feels sour this time around.
So what can you expect?
There's going to beuncertainty ahead of time.
No one knows in advance exactlyhow many people will strike.
(45:22):
Strike participation often becomes clearonly the day before or sometimes even
the morning of, that's why websiteslike cestlagreve.fr are helpful.
But keep in mind they're often based ondeclarations and plans, not final numbers.
The second thing you can expectis delays, not total shutdown.
(45:46):
Even during major strikes, notall services grind to a halt.
Some trains may run, certain metrolines will run, some RERs will run, but
they might operate on reduced schedule.
Buses often still run.
Expect delays, cancellations,crowding, that sort of thing.
(46:07):
For high-risk travelers, just stay put.
If you're really risk-averse or on atight schedule, your safest bet is to
stay in the city you are already in ratherthan attempting long distance travel.
What you can do instead?
Well, obviously monitor the appsyou used to book flights, trains or
(46:30):
ferries, they typically send real-timeupdates if your travel is disrupted.
You can check cestlagreve.fr eachevening for an idea of where walkouts
are planned, but remember, plans canand do change on very short notice.
Plan for flexibility.
(46:50):
If your journey is nonessential orreschedulable, I guess, consider
postponing or rearranging, especiallyif you'll be traveling between cities.
Stay calm and informed, strikes can beinconvenient, but seldom catastrophic.
Alert apps, official transport websites,and your lodgings will help you navigate.
(47:15):
And if you really must get from A toB that day, rent a car, reserve a car.
You can drive, okay?
And there's also apolitical twist this time.
Adding to the uncertainty, theprime minister, the French prime
minister, obviously, has announceda vote of confidence in parliament,
(47:35):
which she is expected to lose.
That could trigger snap elections,meaning that even if you make it through
flustered train platforms and packedmetros, the broader political shifts
could ripple through public servicesand schedules over the coming weeks.
(47:56):
So let me recap.
Number one, expect delays, butnot everything will be shut down.
Number two, use your bookingapps for real-time alerts.
Number three, check c'estlagreve.frbut understand it's not a guarantee.
Number four, consider stayingput if you're very risk averse.
(48:18):
And number five, political developmentsmay add more uncertainty for the
next few weeks I would think.
So easy travels is not guaranteed thisweek, but with a bit of flexibility
and attention, you can ride it out.
Safe travels and, you know, haveyour croissant apps ready, I guess.
(48:40):
That's what I do is just, ugh, grabanother croissant and a bottle of
water and hopefully it'll pass.
Air quality in Paris.
This is great news.
According to a new study byAirparif, the city's air has become
much cleaner over the past decade.
Between 2012 and 2022, air pollutiondropped by nearly 40%, an improvement
(49:06):
the mayor of Paris calls unprecedented.
How did this happen?
Well, it's a mix of European rulesrequiring cleaner cars, Paris's low
emission zones, and policies thatreduce space for cars in the city.
Add in cleaner heating systemsand industrial improvements,
(49:27):
and the results are clear.
Less nitrogen dioxide, fewerfine particles, and better
air for Parisians to breathe.
The health impact is huge.
Air pollution is linked to respiratoryand heart disease, and Paris used to
see about 1,800 premature deaths a yearfrom dirty air, but Airparif reports
(49:53):
that deaths linked to fine particleshave dropped by nearly a third.
That means thousands of lives saved.
And the best part, expertssay this is not the limit.
Pollution levels in Paris are stillabove World Health Organization
guidelines, but there's room toimprove even more before 2030 when
(50:17):
tougher European standards kick in.
In other words, the policiesare working and Paris could cut
another 40% in the next decade.
So while the City of Light still haswork to do, the air Parisians breathe
is cleaner, healthier, and heading inthe right direction, which is wonderful.
(50:37):
Let's talk about the EES and
ETIAS in France because there'sbeen a lot of confusion, a
lot of questions about this.
So first, EES, that'sthe entry exit system.
You don't need to doanything or pay anything.
The first time you arrive,they'll take your fingerprints
and link them to your passport.
(50:58):
After that, it's all automated.
I noticed the machines werealready installed at CDG
recently, though not in use yet.
I expect they'll be switched on verysoon and there's been systems like
that going into the US for a long time.
So this is just something we'reimplementing in France, that
(51:19):
has been around for a long time.
Now, the ETIAS, E-T-I-A-S,that's different.
That one will require actionahead of time and a small fee.
The good news is that there'sa six-month rollout period.
So if you forget to do it atfirst, you won't be denied entry.
And honestly, since this program hasbeen delayed again and again, the
(51:42):
latest pushback is to the end of 2026.
I wouldn't hold my breath.
When it does launch, don't stress,I've done similar electronic
entry permits in places like theUK, the US for French citizens.
Both took only a few minutes.
You just download the official app, scanyour passport, pay the fee, usually get
(52:05):
an email confirmation in 5-10 minutes.
So the bottom line is EES will happenautomatically and ETIAS will require a
little prep, but nothing dramatic andneither one should ruin your trip, okay?
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan,
(52:27):
who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, an episodeabout boot camp 2025 with a few of the
wonderful people who attended this year,and announcements about boot camp 2026.
So that's going to be exciting.
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
can look around France together.
(52:48):
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
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