August 12, 2025 • 11 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So the redistricting battle has hit Indiana. We know what
the governor has to say about it. We know thus
for kind of what Republican leadership has to say about it.
What's the other side of the aisle have to say?
Let's find out. It's Kennell Casey Show and Rob Casey's
here join us now in studio. Mitch Gore, Democrat Representative
Mitch Hello, Hey, all right, So have you guys been
(00:22):
given any sort of I don't know, directive. I mean, look,
it's pretty obvious it's partisan politics. That's it, period, full stop.
And that's that's gross. It's a manipulation of the electoral system.
But have you guys been given any like in a
from a governmental perspective where they are they even trying
to sell it to you in terms of there's some
(00:44):
sort of necessity or are they just being honest that, hey,
we're going to do this because we want more more
seats in the Congress.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, I mean normally they're pretty good about spinning some
you know, uh lie into some reason why we have
to do something, or giving some practical reason why something
should be done, or they find some excuse to do things,
and everybody knows that. No, really, it's you know, it's
for political expediency this time. You know, we've heard nothing
because there's there's no way to spend this. It would
(01:13):
you know, when when Democrats vote forty percent or when
Hoosiers vote across Indiana, you know, forty percent of them
vote for a Democrat for Congress. Right with our nine seats,
that would be like three Democratic seats and one toss up,
but we actually only have two and the other seven
a Republican. You know, you can see that the fix
(01:34):
is in already. So to want to come back and
take the other two, it's it's you can't hide that well.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And this is what And I'm just curious that you know,
you're in the state House even though there's not a
session going on, you're talking to your colleagues. Look, they
just drew these was it two years ago? Three years ago?
You guys drew twenty one, Yeah, twenty one, So for
four years ago, time flies, right, but it wasn't that
long ago. And they just said these maps are fair,
and there's two Democrat seats and that's okay. They got
(02:00):
a little a little creative with the fifth Congressional district,
make that little more republican. But that happens. It's not like, yes,
wouldn't probably do the same thing if you were in power.
But how do you go from just four years ago saying, hey,
these maps are perfectly fair to boy, they're so screwed up.
Now we've got to redraw the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, and I mean, I think Simone Biles would have
a hard time with the level of gymnastics required to
kind of get there. And by the way, I'd like
to mention that, you know, we've been calling for an
independent redistricting commission for a long long time. So you
talk about what Democrats would do were they in power
here in Indiana, that's what we've been calling for.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
And it's similar, i to mean to cutch Off, but's
still by the way, Democrat Represative Mitch Gore is our guests,
we're talking about redistricting. Todd Rokeita, almost twenty years ago,
proposed what you guys are basically proposing, right. I mean,
he had proposed taking to a certain sent the human
element out of it and the partisanship out of it.
So it's not some extreme thing that you guys would
(02:55):
be saying, Hey, let's get the people and the partisanship
out of this.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, and the AG's position on it back then, he
was one hundred percent right Democrats in Indiana right about it.
Now we really need to get there that much more closely.
Adheres to kind of what Madison was talking about in
Federalist ten when he talks about the tyranny of the majority,
kind of take the politics out of it, adhere to
(03:20):
some of those constitutional constants or principles, and have an
independent redistricting commission. That's what we need. Of course, now
we're going to complete other direction and injecting, you know,
hyperpartisanship into the map drawing process. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And it's interesting because obviously our audience leans a little
more right, and some people are upset that I have
the position that I do. But my position on this is, look,
we have a census every ten years, you know, it's
sort of the gentleman's agreement that that's how we're going
to do our congressional distribution. And hey, if that favors Republicans, great,
(03:54):
If it favors Democrats, that's okay. I don't like California
doing it, I don't like Texas doing it. I don't
like Indiana doing it. It just seems very a very
dirty way to get elections in your favor if you
can't win them by governing.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, and you think about like George Washington giving up
power and sticking to it two terms, right, And now
you have a president who so desperately wants to cling
to power that he's willing to kind of throw out
all of these norms that we've had for two hundred
years for very good reasons, just for another two years
(04:31):
of being given carte blanche by the Congress. It doesn't
make sense. It feels very kind of anti the American
experiment to me.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
So, and I want to get to come back to
that in just a second, cause he said something interesting
that I think you guys the Democrats could do to
maybe bolster your case. Feel free to ignore it in
the order in which it's received. We'll come back to
that in a second. Though, has Braun or is there
any scuttle button in the state House, because Braun came
on these airwaves repeatedly during the property tax debacle debate
whatever you want to call it, and said, basically, yeah,
(05:07):
there's no point in calling a special session. It's totally pointless.
It's totally useless. No, it doesn't matter. I'll just have
to sign whatever they do. Has there been any talk
about how they're going to square on his signature issue?
He said a special session was pointless, but then on
this totally partisan issue he says, sign me up for that.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, I mean the idea of a special session, it
almost makes it even worse, right, like people actually need
property tax relief. Right. I think there's more of an
argument to have a special session to fix the mess
that was made with Senate Bill one. To call a
special session instead and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars
(05:46):
in taxpayer dollars to what get two more seats in Congress?
You know, for two years? It's it's insane.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Okay again, Mitch Score is our guest Democrat represented. A
few minutes left with him. We're talking about redistricting. What
can you guys do? Is the Democrats? I mean, obviously
the Democrats I think learned a lesson, hard lesson years
ago about leaving. It wouldn't matter now anyway, because the
super majorities. What can you guys do? Do you feel
do you feel there's a coalision of the willing amongst
the Republicans to say, hey, this isn't right.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Or is this a fate of complete I mean, I
hear from a lot of you know, my district's very
you know, we're really in the middle. I got Beech Grove,
I got the East side of India. It's a really
interesting district. I hear from a lot of folks, and
I have a lot of Republican friends and family members,
and to them it feels gross too. And so I'm
hoping that you know, Indiana Democrats are just one in
(06:40):
a cacophony of voices that kind of reach out and
say this is this is really terrible. This is kind
of against all those those norms that we've had for
hundreds of years and maybe altogether because practically Indiana Democrats
can't do much of them, raise the issue as much
as possible, and then you know, come next year, maybe
(07:01):
Clabb or some Republicans with it in the elections.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Are they going to manipulate just the congressional districts, so
they talking about House and Senate districts too.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I mean, the Indiana Constitution is very clear and there's
established precedent on this matter. In an AG opinion from
a few decades ago that says you cannot do a
mid decade redistrict on the Indiana House and Senate maps.
It follows the discential census.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Do you think because there is some spirited debate, I've
seen it online and you know, the internet is never
wrong of course, about whether or not they can even
do And Nikki Kelly from the Indiana Capitol Chronicle was
on with us last week talk about this whether they
can even do this redistricting. Are you guys, the Democrats,
Are you guys going to raise those legal issues before
(07:50):
this is allowed to go forward?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, I mean, of course we will. And that's the
part that kind of irks me almost as much as
the issue itself, is the hypocrisy baked in right anytime
I have a bill because I'm the only cop in
the General Assembly, anytime I'm the only one, the only
currently serving. Yeah, we have some retired members. But anytime
I like when I had to address the issue of
(08:12):
machine gun switches because Indianapolis cops were getting outgunned on
the streets right the hoops, I had to jump through
because it strays kind of close to the Second Amendment.
You know, the phrase I heard from Republicans was well, no,
we know it doesn't. It doesn't actually impede upon like
the language of the Second Amendment, but it's a slippery slope. Well,
(08:35):
now we get to this conversation where the constitution is clear,
both the US and the Indiana Constitution. We do these
after the decential census, right, But now Republicans are like,
well technically, uh, you know, we could be a little creative.
And so it's the hypocrisy that irks me. Are we
are we sticking to the black and white? Are we not? Uh?
(08:57):
And they have no good answer because it's all about
political obediency for them. Do you think there's any way
to stop it from happening? Well? Uh, you know, just
like Madison warned against the tyranny of the majority, I
know some other founders talked about watering the tree of liberty.
Outside of that, I have no no, I don't know practically,
uh in Indiana. What we can do that we have
(09:20):
to return to a system where there are political consequences
for doing things like this.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Okay, you mentioned political consequences.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
What other consequences do you see coming out of this? Well,
I mean hopefully they'd lose in court. Uh, first, I mean, yeah,
I can't think of any other consequences other than holding
them accountable than The.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Problem can happen to them is they just lose in
court because they've gerrymandered the House and Senate districts to
where they can't they can't really lose, they either.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, ideally they would not
be targeting Indiana House and Senate raises, but.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I think they've already the currently have Oh.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Well, yeah, I mean you have that. But hey, I mean,
you know they're Democrats can break the supermajority in the House.
That's step one. You know, they do enough next year's
midterm year. It was already looking bad, which is why
they have to do this whole you know, mid district,
mid decade redistricting thing, and you know, maybe they get clobbered.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Hey, real quick, before we let you go. One of
the selling points that Republicans are trying to make on
this is we don't want to go through another impeachment
with Trump, and if we lose the House, well it'll
be another impeachment. Should the Democrats take that off the
table by just publicly declaring, look, this guy's term limited.
He can't run again. We're not going to impeach him
and just take that away from people.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, I would. I would if I were in leadership
in the you know, in the Federal Congress, i'd i'd
say something like unless it's something really you know, right
obvious in your face, and yeah, we're not gonna go
for that.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
All right, Well, good luck, because you know, I think
we've kind of taken the right l radio guy wished
me good luck. Right, my life is forever better. But
I think, like I said, I think reasonable people look
at this and see it kind of for what it is.
And some people are just gonna be with, okay with
it because it helps their team. But I think, you know,
if you look at what this is about, because some
day it'll happen to your side. Right, if you do
(11:17):
it to their side, some day it'll happen to your side.
Your side learned that on the Supreme Court stuff, right
with the judges, and so so good luck, we're all
we're all counting on you.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You're listening to Kendall and Casey on ninety three WIBC
So the redistricting battle has hit Indiana. We know what
the governor has to say about it. We know thus
for kind of what Republican leadership has to say about it.
What's the other side of the aisle have to say?
Let's find out. It's Kennell Casey Show and Rob Casey's
here join us now in studio. Mitch Gore, Democrat Representative
Mitch Hello, Hey, all right, So have you guys been
(00:22):
given any sort of I don't know, directive. I mean, look,
it's pretty obvious it's partisan politics. That's it, period, full stop.
And that's that's gross. It's a manipulation of the electoral system.
But have you guys been given any like in a
from a governmental perspective where they are they even trying
to sell it to you in terms of there's some
(00:44):
sort of necessity or are they just being honest that, hey,
we're going to do this because we want more more
seats in the Congress.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, I mean normally they're pretty good about spinning some
you know, uh lie into some reason why we have
to do something, or giving some practical reason why something
should be done, or they find some excuse to do things,
and everybody knows that. No, really, it's you know, it's
for political expediency this time. You know, we've heard nothing
because there's there's no way to spend this. It would
(01:13):
you know, when when Democrats vote forty percent or when
Hoosiers vote across Indiana, you know, forty percent of them
vote for a Democrat for Congress. Right with our nine seats,
that would be like three Democratic seats and one toss up,
but we actually only have two and the other seven
a Republican. You know, you can see that the fix
(01:34):
is in already. So to want to come back and
take the other two, it's it's you can't hide that well.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And this is what And I'm just curious that you know,
you're in the state House even though there's not a
session going on, you're talking to your colleagues. Look, they
just drew these was it two years ago? Three years ago?
You guys drew twenty one, Yeah, twenty one, So for
four years ago, time flies, right, but it wasn't that
long ago. And they just said these maps are fair,
and there's two Democrat seats and that's okay. They got
(02:00):
a little a little creative with the fifth Congressional district,
make that little more republican. But that happens. It's not like, yes,
wouldn't probably do the same thing if you were in power.
But how do you go from just four years ago saying, hey,
these maps are perfectly fair to boy, they're so screwed up.
Now we've got to redraw the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, and I mean, I think Simone Biles would have
a hard time with the level of gymnastics required to
kind of get there. And by the way, I'd like
to mention that, you know, we've been calling for an
independent redistricting commission for a long long time. So you
talk about what Democrats would do were they in power
here in Indiana, that's what we've been calling for.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
And it's similar, i to mean to cutch Off, but's
still by the way, Democrat Represative Mitch Gore is our guests,
we're talking about redistricting. Todd Rokeita, almost twenty years ago,
proposed what you guys are basically proposing, right. I mean,
he had proposed taking to a certain sent the human
element out of it and the partisanship out of it.
So it's not some extreme thing that you guys would
(02:55):
be saying, Hey, let's get the people and the partisanship
out of this.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, and the AG's position on it back then, he
was one hundred percent right Democrats in Indiana right about it.
Now we really need to get there that much more closely.
Adheres to kind of what Madison was talking about in
Federalist ten when he talks about the tyranny of the majority,
kind of take the politics out of it, adhere to
(03:20):
some of those constitutional constants or principles, and have an
independent redistricting commission. That's what we need. Of course, now
we're going to complete other direction and injecting, you know,
hyperpartisanship into the map drawing process. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And it's interesting because obviously our audience leans a little
more right, and some people are upset that I have
the position that I do. But my position on this is, look,
we have a census every ten years, you know, it's
sort of the gentleman's agreement that that's how we're going
to do our congressional distribution. And hey, if that favors Republicans, great,
(03:54):
If it favors Democrats, that's okay. I don't like California
doing it, I don't like Texas doing it. I don't
like Indiana doing it. It just seems very a very
dirty way to get elections in your favor if you
can't win them by governing.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, and you think about like George Washington giving up
power and sticking to it two terms, right, And now
you have a president who so desperately wants to cling
to power that he's willing to kind of throw out
all of these norms that we've had for two hundred
years for very good reasons, just for another two years
(04:31):
of being given carte blanche by the Congress. It doesn't
make sense. It feels very kind of anti the American
experiment to me.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
So, and I want to get to come back to
that in just a second, cause he said something interesting
that I think you guys the Democrats could do to
maybe bolster your case. Feel free to ignore it in
the order in which it's received. We'll come back to
that in a second. Though, has Braun or is there
any scuttle button in the state House, because Braun came
on these airwaves repeatedly during the property tax debacle debate
whatever you want to call it, and said, basically, yeah,
(05:07):
there's no point in calling a special session. It's totally pointless.
It's totally useless. No, it doesn't matter. I'll just have
to sign whatever they do. Has there been any talk
about how they're going to square on his signature issue?
He said a special session was pointless, but then on
this totally partisan issue he says, sign me up for that.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, I mean the idea of a special session, it
almost makes it even worse, right, like people actually need
property tax relief. Right. I think there's more of an
argument to have a special session to fix the mess
that was made with Senate Bill one. To call a
special session instead and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars
(05:46):
in taxpayer dollars to what get two more seats in Congress?
You know, for two years? It's it's insane.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Okay again, Mitch Score is our guest Democrat represented. A
few minutes left with him. We're talking about redistricting. What
can you guys do? Is the Democrats? I mean, obviously
the Democrats I think learned a lesson, hard lesson years
ago about leaving. It wouldn't matter now anyway, because the
super majorities. What can you guys do? Do you feel
do you feel there's a coalision of the willing amongst
the Republicans to say, hey, this isn't right.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Or is this a fate of complete I mean, I
hear from a lot of you know, my district's very
you know, we're really in the middle. I got Beech Grove,
I got the East side of India. It's a really
interesting district. I hear from a lot of folks, and
I have a lot of Republican friends and family members,
and to them it feels gross too. And so I'm
hoping that you know, Indiana Democrats are just one in
(06:40):
a cacophony of voices that kind of reach out and
say this is this is really terrible. This is kind
of against all those those norms that we've had for
hundreds of years and maybe altogether because practically Indiana Democrats
can't do much of them, raise the issue as much
as possible, and then you know, come next year, maybe
(07:01):
Clabb or some Republicans with it in the elections.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Are they going to manipulate just the congressional districts, so
they talking about House and Senate districts too.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I mean, the Indiana Constitution is very clear and there's
established precedent on this matter. In an AG opinion from
a few decades ago that says you cannot do a
mid decade redistrict on the Indiana House and Senate maps.
It follows the discential census.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Do you think because there is some spirited debate, I've
seen it online and you know, the internet is never
wrong of course, about whether or not they can even
do And Nikki Kelly from the Indiana Capitol Chronicle was
on with us last week talk about this whether they
can even do this redistricting. Are you guys, the Democrats,
Are you guys going to raise those legal issues before
(07:50):
this is allowed to go forward?
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, I mean, of course we will. And that's the
part that kind of irks me almost as much as
the issue itself, is the hypocrisy baked in right anytime
I have a bill because I'm the only cop in
the General Assembly, anytime I'm the only one, the only
currently serving. Yeah, we have some retired members. But anytime
I like when I had to address the issue of
(08:12):
machine gun switches because Indianapolis cops were getting outgunned on
the streets right the hoops, I had to jump through
because it strays kind of close to the Second Amendment.
You know, the phrase I heard from Republicans was well, no,
we know it doesn't. It doesn't actually impede upon like
the language of the Second Amendment, but it's a slippery slope. Well,
(08:35):
now we get to this conversation where the constitution is clear,
both the US and the Indiana Constitution. We do these
after the decential census, right, But now Republicans are like,
well technically, uh, you know, we could be a little creative.
And so it's the hypocrisy that irks me. Are we
are we sticking to the black and white? Are we not? Uh?
(08:57):
And they have no good answer because it's all about
political obediency for them. Do you think there's any way
to stop it from happening? Well? Uh, you know, just
like Madison warned against the tyranny of the majority, I
know some other founders talked about watering the tree of liberty.
Outside of that, I have no no, I don't know practically,
uh in Indiana. What we can do that we have
(09:20):
to return to a system where there are political consequences
for doing things like this.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Okay, you mentioned political consequences.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
What other consequences do you see coming out of this? Well,
I mean hopefully they'd lose in court. Uh, first, I mean, yeah,
I can't think of any other consequences other than holding
them accountable than The.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Problem can happen to them is they just lose in
court because they've gerrymandered the House and Senate districts to
where they can't they can't really lose, they either.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, ideally they would not
be targeting Indiana House and Senate raises, but.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I think they've already the currently have Oh.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Well, yeah, I mean you have that. But hey, I mean,
you know they're Democrats can break the supermajority in the House.
That's step one. You know, they do enough next year's
midterm year. It was already looking bad, which is why
they have to do this whole you know, mid district,
mid decade redistricting thing, and you know, maybe they get clobbered.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Hey, real quick, before we let you go. One of
the selling points that Republicans are trying to make on
this is we don't want to go through another impeachment
with Trump, and if we lose the House, well it'll
be another impeachment. Should the Democrats take that off the
table by just publicly declaring, look, this guy's term limited.
He can't run again. We're not going to impeach him
and just take that away from people.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, I would. I would if I were in leadership
in the you know, in the Federal Congress, i'd i'd
say something like unless it's something really you know, right
obvious in your face, and yeah, we're not gonna go
for that.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
All right, Well, good luck, because you know, I think
we've kind of taken the right l radio guy wished
me good luck. Right, my life is forever better. But
I think, like I said, I think reasonable people look
at this and see it kind of for what it is.
And some people are just gonna be with, okay with
it because it helps their team. But I think, you know,
if you look at what this is about, because some
day it'll happen to your side. Right, if you do
(11:17):
it to their side, some day it'll happen to your side.
Your side learned that on the Supreme Court stuff, right
with the judges, and so so good luck, we're all
we're all counting on you.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You're listening to Kendall and Casey on ninety three WIBC
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