December 5, 2025 • 6 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Casey.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
We discussed this yesterday.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah, you know, we had a little love little seminar
on our insurance here at work.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Because it's open enrollment season with health.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Insurance and across the entire country. Well, it's a mess. Yeah,
and there's a good chance it's going to cost you
a lot more money than the Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And just earlier this week, the Senate held a hearing
and it was called making Healthcare Affordable Again, Healing a
broken System. And during that hearing, our senator, Indiana's Jim Banks,
said that the five hospital systems controlled most of Indiana's hospitals,
and he asked how that lack of competition is raising
prices and causing higher health insurance premiums which we're experiencing.
(00:41):
And the director of research from Civatas Institute, Michael Toath,
he wrote an op ed and it was featured in
the Washington Times and he pretty much made the exact
same point. So let's get with Michael and ask him
some questions. Michael, you said that if we don't fix
competition and within healthcare, especially within hospital markets, families and employers,
(01:05):
they're going to be paying more and Congress will keep
fighting over the budget and that all could lead to
more shutdowns like we experienced earlier a few months ago.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, Casey, good morning. Great to be with you guys,
Great to be with your listener. I'll try to bring
like a little bit of good news to the conversation,
because I know when the conversation gets to healthcare is
just like, oh my gosh, you know, one bad news
cycle after the next. But if there's one silver lining
is the fact that we're having this conversation and you've
got leaders like Jim Banks who are really driving this issue.
(01:39):
Because the fact of the matter is healthcare costs in
the United States are outrageously high, and they're going up
into the right and we need an all hands on
deck moment to really fix the various parts of the
system that are driving these costs through the roof, for employees,
for employers, I mean, everybody across the border. And so yeah,
(02:01):
my piece gets that one aspect of that Senator Banks
was raising that issue we need more competition, we need
more consumer choice across the board.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well, yeah, here's the problem. Here's the the show I
think people have though we've heard this from the Republicans
for fifteen years, right, they ran on the twenty ten
minu terms that we're gonna fix obamac or the sphinx,
and they never do anything about it. Who is preventing
them from doing something about it?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
It's a great question, you know, I think now's the time.
I mean, I think after multiple shutdowns, you know, this
issue has become so problematic, and you're absolutely right. But
what I will say is, you know the issues on
how to reform the system, because that's what we need.
And obviously Obamacare didn't do what it was promised. I
mean I went back and looked at it, and you know,
(02:47):
then Senator Obama, running for president in two thousand and eight,
talking about Obamacare, said it was going to lower premiums
by two five hundred dollars per family per year. The
cost of insurance on the Obamacare exchanges has gone up
ten thousand dollars for a family for so we've gone
in exactly the opposite direction. But what I think the
(03:10):
Republicans in Congress are starting to realize is that we
need systematic reform. Right. It's not just a matter of
putting a band aid on a broken system. We've got
to look holistically at how can we inject price transparency, competition,
and consumer choice all throughout the system, right, And so
(03:31):
we've got to look at the rules that are driving
prices up into the right. And so I think there's
conversations that are happy now that weren't really happening in
twenty seventeen. Weren't really happening in twenty ten, you know.
And you've got leaders like Brian Blaize from Paragon Health
Institute Orick Roy Senator Banks on the consolidation issues that
(03:53):
we need to address. So I feel like we're getting
the critical mass of folks. But you know, nothing in
Washington is a given. So you know, let's keep the
pressure on.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Michael Toth is joining us from the Civitas Institute. He's
the research director there. So Rob and I were curious
you mentioned giving consumers more choice. What would that look
like in a real world example.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah, I mean I think I think it's got to
look you know, it's got there's got to be consumer
choice at various parts of the system. So I'll just
mention a few things. First of all, you know, more hsas, right,
So if we look at HSA's you're putting you're putting
healthcare choice in the pocketbook of the consumer, right, So
that's one aspect of it. Another aspect of it, And
this gets to the shutdown is you know we were
(04:36):
giving one hundred cents on the dollar to insurance companies,
you know, for these Obamacare premiums. You know, that's not
priss competition. If somebody is getting one hundred cents on
the dollar, they have no incentive to bring those costs down.
So I know folks on Capitol Hill, on both sides
of the aisle, are looking at addressing that issue. Another
issue on choice is making sure that there's choice in
(04:59):
the marketplace, and that's part of what my op ed
got into in the Washington Times. That's what Senative Banks
got into. When we look at a major driver of
healthcare costs, it's the hospitals, over a trillion dollars of
spending and we're seeing more and more consolidation. We need
more competition in the marketplace. Competition on the private side
is what bring cost down. So I think we need
(05:19):
to basically stack choice on top of choice, choice and competition,
and that force is going to do what it's done
across other markets, which is bring cost down. One last
thing case here health care is not completely broken. There
are parts of the healthcare industry where costs are going down.
It's things like LASiS where people are spending their own
(05:40):
money on services. There's lots of competitions bring the cost down.
So we can do this. We just have to reform
the system.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
How long do you think consumers would see any savings
if any of these proposed reforms actually were put into place.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
You know, these things do take some time to turn around.
But I know with what's going on in Washington now,
there's conversations that are happening right now. And let's be
honest too. I mean, we've seen prices move quickly in
the opposite direction. So these rules, these regulations, they do
make a difference. I mean year one of Obamacare, the
premiums went up forty seven percent. Okay, I mean that
(06:18):
just goes to show what changes can do to people's pocketbooks, right,
And so I think, you know, consumers are smart. People
know that the system is broken, and once our leaders
in Washington sort to get the right points in place
and fix it, I think consumers will respond like they
always do and make the decisions that make the most
sense for them and their families.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Well, we appreciate your time. You can find that article
in the Washington Times, and it's making healthcare more affordable again.
Thank you, Michael for your consideration.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
They see my pleasure. Let's do it again.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It is Kindily Casey. It's ninety three WIBC.
Casey.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
We discussed this yesterday.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah, you know, we had a little love little seminar
on our insurance here at work.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Because it's open enrollment season with health.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Insurance and across the entire country. Well, it's a mess. Yeah,
and there's a good chance it's going to cost you
a lot more money than the Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And just earlier this week, the Senate held a hearing
and it was called making Healthcare Affordable Again, Healing a
broken System. And during that hearing, our senator, Indiana's Jim Banks,
said that the five hospital systems controlled most of Indiana's hospitals,
and he asked how that lack of competition is raising
prices and causing higher health insurance premiums which we're experiencing.
(00:41):
And the director of research from Civatas Institute, Michael Toath,
he wrote an op ed and it was featured in
the Washington Times and he pretty much made the exact
same point. So let's get with Michael and ask him
some questions. Michael, you said that if we don't fix
competition and within healthcare, especially within hospital markets, families and employers,
(01:05):
they're going to be paying more and Congress will keep
fighting over the budget and that all could lead to
more shutdowns like we experienced earlier a few months ago.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, Casey, good morning. Great to be with you guys,
Great to be with your listener. I'll try to bring
like a little bit of good news to the conversation,
because I know when the conversation gets to healthcare is
just like, oh my gosh, you know, one bad news
cycle after the next. But if there's one silver lining
is the fact that we're having this conversation and you've
got leaders like Jim Banks who are really driving this issue.
(01:39):
Because the fact of the matter is healthcare costs in
the United States are outrageously high, and they're going up
into the right and we need an all hands on
deck moment to really fix the various parts of the
system that are driving these costs through the roof, for employees,
for employers, I mean, everybody across the border. And so yeah,
(02:01):
my piece gets that one aspect of that Senator Banks
was raising that issue we need more competition, we need
more consumer choice across the board.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well, yeah, here's the problem. Here's the the show I
think people have though we've heard this from the Republicans
for fifteen years, right, they ran on the twenty ten
minu terms that we're gonna fix obamac or the sphinx,
and they never do anything about it. Who is preventing
them from doing something about it?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
It's a great question, you know, I think now's the time.
I mean, I think after multiple shutdowns, you know, this
issue has become so problematic, and you're absolutely right. But
what I will say is, you know the issues on
how to reform the system, because that's what we need.
And obviously Obamacare didn't do what it was promised. I
mean I went back and looked at it, and you know,
(02:47):
then Senator Obama, running for president in two thousand and eight,
talking about Obamacare, said it was going to lower premiums
by two five hundred dollars per family per year. The
cost of insurance on the Obamacare exchanges has gone up
ten thousand dollars for a family for so we've gone
in exactly the opposite direction. But what I think the
(03:10):
Republicans in Congress are starting to realize is that we
need systematic reform. Right. It's not just a matter of
putting a band aid on a broken system. We've got
to look holistically at how can we inject price transparency, competition,
and consumer choice all throughout the system, right, And so
(03:31):
we've got to look at the rules that are driving
prices up into the right. And so I think there's
conversations that are happy now that weren't really happening in
twenty seventeen. Weren't really happening in twenty ten, you know.
And you've got leaders like Brian Blaize from Paragon Health
Institute Orick Roy Senator Banks on the consolidation issues that
(03:53):
we need to address. So I feel like we're getting
the critical mass of folks. But you know, nothing in
Washington is a given. So you know, let's keep the
pressure on.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Michael Toth is joining us from the Civitas Institute. He's
the research director there. So Rob and I were curious
you mentioned giving consumers more choice. What would that look
like in a real world example.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah, I mean I think I think it's got to
look you know, it's got there's got to be consumer
choice at various parts of the system. So I'll just
mention a few things. First of all, you know, more hsas, right,
So if we look at HSA's you're putting you're putting
healthcare choice in the pocketbook of the consumer, right, So
that's one aspect of it. Another aspect of it, And
this gets to the shutdown is you know we were
(04:36):
giving one hundred cents on the dollar to insurance companies,
you know, for these Obamacare premiums. You know, that's not
priss competition. If somebody is getting one hundred cents on
the dollar, they have no incentive to bring those costs down.
So I know folks on Capitol Hill, on both sides
of the aisle, are looking at addressing that issue. Another
issue on choice is making sure that there's choice in
(04:59):
the marketplace, and that's part of what my op ed
got into in the Washington Times. That's what Senative Banks
got into. When we look at a major driver of
healthcare costs, it's the hospitals, over a trillion dollars of
spending and we're seeing more and more consolidation. We need
more competition in the marketplace. Competition on the private side
is what bring cost down. So I think we need
(05:19):
to basically stack choice on top of choice, choice and competition,
and that force is going to do what it's done
across other markets, which is bring cost down. One last
thing case here health care is not completely broken. There
are parts of the healthcare industry where costs are going down.
It's things like LASiS where people are spending their own
(05:40):
money on services. There's lots of competitions bring the cost down.
So we can do this. We just have to reform
the system.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
How long do you think consumers would see any savings
if any of these proposed reforms actually were put into place.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
You know, these things do take some time to turn around.
But I know with what's going on in Washington now,
there's conversations that are happening right now. And let's be
honest too. I mean, we've seen prices move quickly in
the opposite direction. So these rules, these regulations, they do
make a difference. I mean year one of Obamacare, the
premiums went up forty seven percent. Okay, I mean that
(06:18):
just goes to show what changes can do to people's pocketbooks, right,
And so I think, you know, consumers are smart. People
know that the system is broken, and once our leaders
in Washington sort to get the right points in place
and fix it, I think consumers will respond like they
always do and make the decisions that make the most
sense for them and their families.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Well, we appreciate your time. You can find that article
in the Washington Times, and it's making healthcare more affordable again.
Thank you, Michael for your consideration.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
They see my pleasure. Let's do it again.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It is Kindily Casey. It's ninety three WIBC.
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