Jennifer's Body & The Elyse Pahler Case

When Jennifer’s Body hit theaters in 2009, critics dismissed it as a quirky teen horror comedy. Years later, the film has gained cult status—not only for its feminist themes, but also for its chilling connection to real life. The story of a popular high school girl who becomes the victim of a satanic sacrifice echoes the tragic 1995 murder of 15-year-old Elyse Pahler in Arroyo Grande, California. Elyse was lured from her home by three teenage boys who thought they needed her life for a ritual sacrifice to help their heavy metal band succeed. In this episode, we break down the film’s plot, the true crime case that inspired it, and how horror and reality overlap in terrifying ways.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, y'all, welcome back to Mountain Murders Midweek.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm Heather and I'm Dylan.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's October and you know what that means, Dylan.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm gonna get scarred.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Scary stuff is afoot. Yes, all month long hour midweek
episodes will be dedicated to horror movies. But there's a little,
a little extra, Dylan. It's not just any horror movie.
It's horror movies that are based on true stories. Oh,
that's the best, that draw their inspiration from a true story,

(00:31):
very loosely inspired by true stories. Yes, but before we
get started, we had quite an interesting experience the other
day and we felt like we should share it with
you guys.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, and it kind of goes along with the theme.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well, Rocky Horror Picture Show is one of my all
time faves. I have a Rocky Horror tattoo. I've starred
in the play, in the stage show, actually more than one.
I've been in two different productions of like a stage
show of Rocky Horror. Nice, and I've seen Rocky Horror
just about every way you can imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, I mean, I know I've personally seen the movie
probably thirty times plus. But I have not had that
much experience seeing it live, and you described to me
almost every way I could imagine seeing people acting it out,
you know, the audience participation, the live play, the live play,
you know, all the what people all scream at this,

(01:25):
you know the extra stuff that only the people in
the no notes this, Yeah, things like that, and so, yeah,
you're you're a bit of a Rocky Horror officionado, So
it would be hard to top that, your Rocky Horror experience.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Like I'm a true Franky fan, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Believe that I don't know that we topped all your
other experiences, but we certainly added a new element.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
We sure did, Dylan. And it's the fiftieth anniversary of
the Rocky Horror.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Picture Show, which is kind of crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
It's kind of crazy, right, I mean, the fact that
it's got such a cult fall even all these years later.
I see that it's playing at a theater in a
nearby city, so I'm like, we should get tickets and
go see this in the theater. You know, it's the
fiftieth anniversary and it was described as being in four
d X, which I had no idea what that meant.
We get to the theater and The first thing we noticed.

(02:18):
The chairs are a little strange. Yes, they're new chairs,
which is nice because our local theater has horribly old
chairs that make your ass, hert and your back hurt
when you sit on them for like two hours. Right right,
I'd be like, my neck, my bet, everything aches when
I leave the movie theater.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Well, no, whether the degree we want to see a
movie is how much we want to go through being uncomfortable.
That's what the seats are like in this kind of
older theater.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
It's true. So we're like, Okay, these seats are a
little strange. They're kind of oddly shaped, and your feet
don't touch the grounds.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
You kind of climb up into it.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Right. The fabric was a little weird. And then I
noticed the button that says water on, water off.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
So I saw the same thing, and I'm like, does
this is this like a massaging chair? Does this like
a cool your Maybe.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
It was something to cool your keep your drink cold.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah. I was like, Okay, this is kind of weird.
So and we're still just like, have no idea what's
about to happen.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Just before the movie starts, it's like a welcome, like
an introduction. It's like an intro to forty X. And
all of a sudden, just out of nowhere, dude, our
chairs start rumbling. They're moving around like we're on a
roller coaster.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, they're tilting ford, yeah, lurching side to side. There's
a air blowing like fans. There's a flashes like lightning,
and all.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Of a sudden, then I just get spooged in a
face with water and.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Then it starts raining on us. Our seats are finishing
on our face apparently, yeah, and there's water, and we're
just like, what in the hell is going on the thing. So,
long story short, this is basically one of those immersive
sensory experiences.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Oh, it was an experience.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
And so we're like, okay.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
So we're not the only ones because other folks in theater.
I don't think they had an idea of what was coming,
because I could hear people like, oh God, what the hell?
You know, everybody's freaking out, right once the chairs start
like spinning around, right, it was a novelty. I mean
I appreciated the novelty, but I gave it the first
It was okay for about twenty minutes, right, and then

(04:32):
I was like over it.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Right, and then but then you had the rest of
the movie. Yeah, so does set the set like if
it's raining in the movie, or the wind's blowing, which
I thought was kind of the coolest element. And lightning striking.
You kind of had a.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Light over at the Fringing stun place.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
You had an in room experience that kind of outside
the screen that was kind of a cool.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
No, it was cool. I mean, don't get me wrong,
and I'm probably just an old fuddy duddy at this point,
but you know, all that jerking and like I was
starting to feel like a little motion sickness or something.
And then the smell from like the fog machine.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, really sure, no, there was a very significant, noticeable
chemical smell. I would liken it too. If you've ever
been around a fog machine and an enclosed building or room,
After a minute, it kind of gets old. It smells
very unnatural and chemically, and I actually felt like I
smelled like that after.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
I left the place, right. It was kind of making
me feel stuffy, like it was playing with my sinuses.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
So yeah, if you see a movie that is playing
in four DX, and some people may be laughing at us, like, oh,
we know what this is ha ha. We had no idea.
We were and we thought maybe it was like an
RFX theater with the you know, amplified sound system or
something to that of that nature. But no, it's totally different.
And I could not imagine watching like a Jurassic Park

(06:00):
or John Wick an action movie in this because the
little bit of action in Rocky Horror, which I mean,
you know, there's not a ton of action. There's not
a ton of action. And I really felt I also
felt like they were reaching trying to like make this
line operate.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
The technology with Rocky Horror.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yah, yeah, very much so. So anyway, well, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
So it's horror movie season. I don't know if you
consider Rocky Horror really a true horror movie. It's got
the horror, the sci fi elements, just a wacky zany film, right, musical.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
You know. I have to say some people would argue
charm Under that this is one of the original midnight
cult classics. Of course that really found you know, probably
had a bit of a splash when it came out.
It was different. It was in many ways pushing the envelope,

(06:56):
I think, but little taboo taboo. But I think a
lot of people thought it was weird or this and that,
and uh, but it truly gained fans and a true
cult following in the midnight showings that became so popular,
yeah worldwide.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
All right, Dylan, are you ready to get into today's
horror movie? We were discussing Jennifer's Body. Now, Dylan, you
are not a huge fan of this film. No, you
think it's ridiculous. No, I saw this in the movies, dude,
like you went to the theater to see this film.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yes, okay, Jennifer's body in the movies.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
I bet she was looking at Jennifer's body, and well, see.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
That was the thing. Even though I was not the
biggest Megan Fox fan. Honestly, the whole time, everybody's like,
oh my god, I'm Megan Fox. She's so hot because
she can't act a lick. She really can't act at all.
She's not good actor. And uh, but then you don't
even get to see because like only one thing can

(07:59):
say this movie experience. You don't get to see Jennifer's body.
You don't there's no nudity.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Oh well, that's too bad for you. I mean I
thought this movie was pretty mid Okay, I mean it's
like a fun horror film. It's not something I'm gonna
rewatch right like annually. But you know, if I haven't
seen it for a few years, I'm not poping on
just to be like, oh yeah, okay, yeah, I think
it's fine.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well maybe, you know, honestly, I didn't get a chance
to rewatch that before this episode, so maybe I need
to give it another try.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
I mean, I'm not gonna say it's like a It's
not a cult classic for me. It's not in my
top ten all time favorite horror films, right, But I
mean I can appreciate it for what it is, and
it's fine.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Uh No, And honestly, I don't think I realized at
the time that this was indeed inspired loosely inspired by
true events. So I'm very very excited to hear the
backstory on that.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Absolutely, let's get started. Jennifer's Body was written by Diablo
Cody and directed by Karen Kusama, so you have two
female contributors write this film, female director, female writer. It
was released in two thousand and nine. Diablo Cuddy was
fresh off her Oscar wind for writing the Juno script.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Oh Wow, which Juno was?

Speaker 1 (09:18):
I like that movie. I thought it was funny, it
was cute.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, I think that was a really kind of a
one of those indie indie movies that really, I think
a lot of times nowadays and after things like Juno,
Napoleon Dynamite, you see people trying really hard or Garden
State something like that. You see people trying to be
the quirky indie movie. But that's not how it works.

(09:43):
You just do this little movie, a passion project. Everybody's
on board, trying to do something different, something that feels fresh,
and it becomes a quirky indie movie, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right, I mean everybody loved Juno. She was like kind
of snarky, she had great comebacks. She was funny. I'm
a big Michaelson Aero fan, right I do. I will
admit I do love me some Michael Sarah. So, yeah,
it was a movie.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
I enjoyed.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
I liked it a lot.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
So fresh off of a surprise hit, right, Yeah, you
much acclaim.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
So that's Diabolo. Cuddy just kind of came out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
She has an interesting background, Dylan, she was. I mean,
I think she she has a degree in like journalism
or writing something like that. But she worked as a stripper.
She's from I believe, Minneapolis, and she worked as a
stripper in Minneapolis, and she's like, I'm not at all
like what you would consider the stripper type, you know,

(10:36):
but she went she got this job because she was,
you know, kind of struggling to make ends meet after
college and ended up writing a book and I think
it's called Candy Girl. If I recall, I've read it.
It's been years ago. But she wrote this book about
her experience as a stripper and kind of like not
being the class that like what you might think of
a classic stripper, Like she didn't have a dance background.
She what didn't really fit the mold at the time

(10:57):
of what strippers looked like. She kind of had the
alt thing going on. Oh okay, this was like kind
of maybe pre suicide Girls days, like late nineties, you know,
and like the al Chicks, that wasn't really mainstream like
it is today.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
So she was kind of ahead of her time in
many ways.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Right, So she wrote that book and you know it
was it was celebrated, I guess you could say, in
some circles. So you know, she had a little bit
of clout and then wrote this movie script. But she
kind of came out of nowhere, right, I mean she's
not like Hollywood pedigree, She's not an fo baby. She
was like a newcomer, right. So yeah, she writes the

(11:35):
script for Juno. It is wildly successful, and so she
gets the second film of Jennifer's Body. And although it's
a horror film, Jennifer's Body is nuanced. It's kind of
a take on female friendships, particularly daring adolescents. So if
you really want to like dive into the film, I
think there are more themes going on than it's just

(11:55):
your standard horror movie, right, And I think a lot
of female centric horror films do have kind of underlying themes.
The story centers on two girls who are unlikely friends.
You have Needy, her name is Anita, but Needy is
like I guess her nickname, played by Amanda Seyfried and

(12:16):
Jennifer is played by Megan Fox. And these two girls
are navigating the difficulties of high school relationships, sexuality, and empowerment.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
You know, I think my problem, well from one of
a kind of in a very lame male point of
viewway broke this movie down, or my my takeaway from
this movie. And honestly, I think I missed a lot
of the nuances.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
I think maybe you said some words I'm a man, right,
and I think a lot of times nuances just go
over your heads. Not to not to disparage men, but I.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Think I just had the wrong You know, sometimes when
you know a very little about a movie, you have
just started the wrong kind of expectations of what the
movie's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Okay, right, I get that, well, you know, Dylan. I
mean I always look at films from I guess a
certain perspective. I studied film. I've always been a movie buff.
I appreciate, uh, you know, the craft of filmmaking, all
the elements and symbolism underlying themes and films, that kind
of thing. And I think not everybody watches a movie

(13:30):
with all of that in mind, like this checklist. You
watch movies to be entertained to, you know, to just
enjoy the film, to the fantasy of the film or whatever.
So not everybody is like a I guess a critical
movie watcher.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
No, that's true. Now you have a broaden my horizons
with things like what's happened? What happened to Baby? Jane
and these movies. There's great movies, you know, really incredible,
well crafted, well richen and great characters, you know, perfectly performed.
And so you have opened my eyes kind of to
some of those things and movies.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Well, the movie is narrated by Needy and told from
her perspective. We learn that Needy is involuntarily committed to
a menstal a mental institution.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
A menstrual institution.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Maybe I need to be committed to a menstrual intuition,
I don't know. For some reason, those words escape me today.
Mental institution, okay, she is institutionalized where she is considered
a violent, dangerous patient. So that's how the story begins.
We get Needy in this mental hospital and she's gonna

(14:45):
tell you a story. And I'm immediately kind of picking
up Great Gatsby vibes. Okay, because the story opens much
the same. You have a character that's been hospitalized, institutionalized,
they're telling the story. I don't know if Diablo Cody
kind of did that intentionally, like as a nod to

(15:05):
the Great Gatsby or you know whatever. But we get Needy,
she's in a mental hospital, and we see her throne
into solitary confinement, and that's when Needy starts telling the
story of what happened a few months earlier. Now, Jennifer
is her best friend, and she's a beautiful, popular cheerleader
in the town of Devil's Kettle, Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
So we already have this rock and roll town name.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Now, Devil's Kettle.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Where you from? I'm from the Devil's Kettle.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
I was born in a devil's kettle.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Get back in your own devil's cattle. Okay. So she's
well aware of her physical assets and isn't afraid to
use those to get what she wants. She's flirty, she's
flawning it, which you know, my granny always said, if
you got it, flaunt.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Right right, shake that money maker.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Hell yeah. She's confident, sarcastic, a little cynical. Needy is
what we would call maybe like the classic wingman or
like wingwoman character. She's considered a little nerdy, straight laced
compared to her more adventurous best friend. Jennifer invites Needy
to a local music venue to hear an out of

(16:19):
town band she has her sight set on the lead singer.
Needy agrees to join Jennifer at Melody Lane, which is
this sort of shitty dive bar music venue.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Oh my gosh, would you go see a show at
Melody Lane?

Speaker 1 (16:35):
You know me, I'll go anywhere. I'll go to the
dud drop In, I'll go to Libby's. Okay, I'll go
wherever you go, wherever the show's at, I'll go the VFW.
I don't give fuck do.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
I've seen some really good acts at a VFW or
a Moose Lodge.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
I mean, hell, yeah, you go party at the most Yeah,
cheap drinks, absolutely, Dylan a lot. I'm not picky. I
don't discriminate. I'll go. I actually prefer a dive bar
to like a she shy, bougie cocktail bar. Now once again,
I don't need, you know, lavender on ice, you know,

(17:15):
lavender flavored ice for my cocktail.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
No, once again, an authentic dive bar, not one that
sets out its grand opening as a dive bar. That's
just not how it works with dove bar.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
No. Man, I want a jukebox. It's got like all
the Hank songs on it. I want this place to
maybe maybe has questionable cleanliness.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Oh yeah, it's got to be just a little dare
I say.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
I have not been wiped down for a while.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Everything's sticky, a little bit sticky, questionable patrons who you
may or may not be safe the entire time you're there.
But what's funny about a real authentic dive bar like that,
Once you become kind of a regular there and are
accepted in kind of into the click or the crowd,
you have the best time made. You have.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
The bartender hooks you up when they recognize you as
a regular, till they start to hook you up with.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Dreams, strong, cheap dreams.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
They know you're a good tipper. You know. It's kind
of like where everybody knows your name.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
It's several high five.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh hey, Bud, I'm glad to see you here. Yeah, hey,
you're gonna sing some okie for us to not doing
you know.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Well, yeah, people you don't know their name, you've never
actually had a full on conversation.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
You have like a nickname for them, you still, Yeah,
like Charles Manson wearing the Coonskin cap.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, Coonskin cap guy.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, so there is I mean, we're not even kidding
when we say this. There's a guy and we've seen
him at like several dive bars. Around our town.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
He's a dive bar fixture.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
He's a fixture. So we've seen him in a couple
of different places, and he's always wearing a coonskin cap,
which props to him, but he also looks like Charles
Manson wearing a coonskin cap.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think he looks like if Charles Manson and Walter
White full on bald head had a baby. That's what
I think he looks exactly. He's not bald well, no
he's not, but I'm just saying just the something about
his face.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Remind you of Walter White and Manson him. I think
this dude looks just like Manson, And if he had
a cult, I might have to go like to a
meeting because I just dig his look.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Right, you're gonna let Manson mk ultrue.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, I'm probably gonna wear my coonskin cap too, because
I have one and I don't wear it that often, so.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
You're gonna be twinsies.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
But I might just wear you know, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I think a guy in a coonskin cap or gal
is going to take offence to someone else trying to
be the coonskin cap person.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Right, I'm going to fight him for coonskin cap like supremacy. Okay,
you're gonna dominate. I'm gonna be the only one in
a coonskin cap from now on. Take that, Charles Manson.
So Jennifer uses her feminine wiles to attract the lead
singer the band. His name is Nikolai. He's played by
Adam Brody. She orders some a special drink which is

(20:06):
called the nine to eleven Tribute Shooter.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Okay, very odd.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Though she's underage, she's able to procure this drink for him.
Nikolai is a bit of a knucklehead from some other
small town, but for whatever reason, he thinks he's super
cool because he is a singer in a band and
brags that you know are bands from Brooklyn.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Oh wow, But you know, he's just.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Some dope from Middle America who moved to New York
and so he thinks that's impressive to other small towners.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Well no, but that's true, and people really ride that
well they do.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
And I'm just like cool. I mean, it's cool you
moved to New York, but that's the same for me
as like saying I moved to Ohio or I moved
to like Connecticut. I'm just like okay, but for whatever reason,
people who moved to New York City really think they're
doing something. Well.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think that's true for like New York City or
like La. Yeah, yeah, it's like a big deal just
because they were okay.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
I mean, if you want to go ride a pissy
subway where you may or may not get stabbed and
pay four thousand dollars for a six floor walk up,
I'm good for you.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I'm sure there's pros and cons to being in a
big city like that, but it's funny when people who
aren't from that city move there and in like a
month or two, they have like the satitude.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
They act like yeah right, and I think we've all
seen that right. So here we've got this like ultra
hip singer. He's from Brooklyn, he's too cool for school,
and though he flirts with Jennifer, the viewers hear him
make some unflattering comments about her, uh like to his bandmates,
you know, kind of inferring that she's a groupie, and like, oh,
she's just here to offer up her virginity. Eh, she's

(21:47):
just trying to get dicked down by me. The lead
singer from Brooklyn.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Tonight, So he's a bit of a dick.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Well, yeah, I guess you could say that. During the set,
we see Jennifer squeez Needy's hand to the point that
she even like kind of leaves red marks on her hand,
like she's super excited to be in the presence of
this Vand. But then suddenly a fire mysteriously breaks out
in the rafters of the club. NiTi pulls Jennifer to safety.

(22:17):
They're able to escape through the bathroom. Everyone is running
out of the venue, screaming, fires engulfing the building, so
we kind of see this chaos unfolding. Jennifer seems a
bit out of it, and while they're in the parking
lot trying to escape, the girls bump into Nikolai and
he offers them safety in the Vand's van. Okay, come inside, girls,

(22:42):
I have free candy.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yes, come inside the van and see what I can
offer you.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, come inside the van and see what's gonna happen
to my biggest van. I don't know, but he invites
someone into the van. Nity declines this offer, you know,
she realizes it's like, you don't get into a creeper van,
But Jennifer willingly goes again, she's sort of starstruck. Got
the hots for the lead singer.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Right, she's hot for the guy, and she's throwing her
better judgment aside.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Nikolay offers her a drink while you know, she sits
down in the van. He's offering her a drink, and
that's when we see Needy kind of like watch her
friend leave in this van, and she shares that she
has a really bad feeling that something awful is about
to happen. I mean, like the fire wasn't awful enough.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Right, It's like you're at a White Straps concert. You
mean White Snake, Well, yeah, that one too, White Snake concert.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, that was White Snake. Honey. Now something does happen.
We learn through a flashback, kind of within a flashback
later that Jennifer is violently abused by the bandmates.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
So he gets this, you know, attractive woman in there
who's obviously into him, and like, your next thought is
to you all should just to abuse and beat her.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Well, it seems this band has an idea that if
they sacrifice a virgin, that it's going to like to
the devil, it's going to give them fame and power
and glory.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
They're thinking like the sacrifice is going to make it,
you know, like a deal with a devil, like a
Robert Johnson type of thing. Okay, right now, after the fire,
Needy returns home. She's alone because her mother works nights,
and we get Jennifer showing up disheveled, covered in blood
and wounded. She's she's acting kind of funny, Dylan like,

(24:38):
almost like she's in some sort of trance. Her behavior
is really unsettling. She doesn't say anything, but Jennifer goes
straight into the kitchen and starts devouring a roasted chicken,
like just tearing into this chicken, eating and you just
see like meat and sinewy bun, you know, just gross. Yeah,

(24:58):
it's gross.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Easy.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, So, after primitively eating this chicken, she chokes, vomits
all over the place and then roars like some kind
of animal. I mean, it's not every day your best
friend does this. No, I mean, my best friend only
does this on Thursdays.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
At first, you're obviously going to be worried, But I mean,
at what point are you just like totally freaked out?

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Well, yeah, absolutely, Jennifer Puke's black blood filled with some
kind of gross scoop. Of course, Anity is just like horrified, like,
doesn't know what's happening. Don't see black, bloody vomit very often? No,
I don't think I've ever seen that. So there's that now. Afterwards,

(25:43):
she kisses Needy on the neck and leaves. Needy is
left wondering WTF. The next day, Jennifer shows up to
class like normal, Everything seems to be okay. Their teacher
discusses eight students who lost their lives the night before
in the fire. After class, Needy tells her boyfriend Chip

(26:05):
about the strange encounter with Jennifer in the kitchen, but
he kind of blows her off, and he suggests that
Needy should see the school psychologist. You were at the fire,
You're probably traumatized.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
So he doesn't give a lot of weight to her
description of Jennifer. Really, he's more worried about her. Needy.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah, like, go get some help girl. Well, after school,
we see Jennifer flirting with a varsity football player named Jonas.
She lures them into the woods. The pair of undress
and while I say, she undresses, and then she sort
of rips his clothes off, right, very very fantastical then
we see her attack him with what appears to be

(26:45):
this like finged mouth. And here's the thing about Jennifer's
body I never quite understood. Is she like a demon?
Is she a vampire? Is she a zombie? Right, it's
kind of left open for interpretation.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, but you certainly know she's some type of creature.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah, and that she famed mouth gives it away, and
that she's definitely not all right, right Jonas, So he's murdered, right,
and this goes unsolved. Jennifer continues praying upon other male classmates.
The entire school is in mourning, yet Jennifer seems to
carry on as if nothing has happened. This troubles Needy.

(27:24):
I mean, she's like feeling the impacts of these, you know,
the loss of her classmates, this missing football player. She
knows something strange is happening. And Needy also notices Jennifer's
increasingly like alarming behavior, and as the killings continue, Needy
experiences visions that show her Jennifer is responsible for the

(27:45):
deaths of these classmates.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
So she's getting a front row seat to all this, right, Yeah,
and she just knows it's getting worse and worse. Yeah,
so it's so, okay, let me stop you for a second.
Is this like a description of like feminism attacking the patriarchy?
I mean, does it get you.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Could interpret it that way.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Maybe, okay, yea, okay, I like it.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, Like she's chewing them up, spin them out, because
some of these guys are not like they're portrayed in
unsavory ways, like Jonas the football player. I mean, you know,
it's like he's a dick and whatnot. So while men
in the movie only want Jennifer's body, she seeks cannibalistic revenge.
And this is where I think it's like a feministic

(28:34):
or like feminist movie. I don't know if you say femistic,
but feminist movie is that it's like a classic revenge film.
I think of like I Spit on.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Your grave, right, an entire genre of movies.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, there are these women like these I guess you
could say pro women. There are these women horror films,
revenge films. It's a whole genre where the woman, the
female character is raped or brutal in some way, and
then she comes back with a vengeance, hell bent on
you know, hunting down her captors or her rapists or

(29:08):
tortures and like pick them off one by one.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah. And now movies like The Burning Bed, things like that.
Would you put that in that category?

Speaker 1 (29:17):
I think I would put the Burning Bed into that category.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
I guess that's more of a like a domestic.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Violence I like Pretty Young Thing, the classic I Spent
on Your Grave. I mean, there's a lot of these
types of movies. There's like an Australian film I can't
think of what it's called, where a woman is brutal,
like brially assaulted and then she goes on a killing spree.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
There's modern day versions like Becky. Yeah, what's Becky? Becky? Yeah?
They she I mean it's the same thing, revenge story.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
I don't know who Becky is.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yeah, well, we will have to check it out.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
I ain't no Becky. All right. So Jennifer's Body is
based on a real true crime case, and that's we're
gonna get into that, Dylan, the murder of Elise Pauler, now.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
That I had no idea of. So this is this
is how I'm very interested in.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
And I say it's based on a real true Crump case.
It draws inspiration from this case. Our case begins on
July twenty second of nineteen ninety five, fifteen year old Elise,
who was born three days after me, was a freshman
at Arroyo Grande High School in California. On this particular evening,
Elise had spent time watching television with her family. The

(30:30):
evening had been pleasant by all accounts. Elise decided she
was going to turn in for the night, so she
told her parents, like, I'm going to go to bed.
As she's walking into a room, she calls out, you know,
I love you guys, going to bed? Right, Her parents
assume she's going to bed. I think when our kids
tell us they're tired and they're going to sleep, we

(30:53):
kind of just take their word for it, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
But they could be sneaking out the window.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Well, what they didn't know is that Alice was piling
pillows into the bed, covering them up kind of, you know,
making it look like she's asleep, like staging, like there's
a body under the covers.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, it's a classic technique.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Classic kid moved, teenage move. Did you ever do this?

Speaker 2 (31:15):
No, I would be terrified of being found out.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
She said. Your sister would sneak out though.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Right, Yeah, But and plus I didn't really want to
go anywhere.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Did your sister do something like this, Yeah, it was
to sneak out or do you know like where her
methods were.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
I don't know the exact method, but you know, maybe
something similar. I think maybe Actually one time I had
to check with my mom that she actually attempted something
of that nature. Okay, the pillows and the you know,
just making it look like you're in bed in some form,
or just you know, acting real tire, like, Oh, it's
it's been such a long day, I'm so pooped. You know,

(31:53):
I'm gonna go to bed, you know, almost being too
too obvious of it, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
I never one, I would have never been sneaking out
of the house because that just wasn't me. But two,
I never really had a bedroom where I had an
opportunity to sneak out of the house, if that makes sense. Okay,
the first part of my teenage years, I was in
a second story bedroom of this old house.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Was pretty pretty high up off the ground, be hard
to get into that.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah, I didn't really have any way to get in
or out. I didn't have a ladder, There's no if
I had to dropped out of the window. I probably
would have broken a bone.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
There's no conveniently play super sturdy lattice, no coming down
the side of the house.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
There's no tree nearby. Right, there's no way I'm getting
off this window unless I grow wings and fly out
and so magic carpet.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
If you were to get out and down, you'd never
get back up right.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
And then later years, I had a bedroom that was
in the downstairs and there was a sliding glass door
where I probably could have made my way out. But
I had a dog, a little dog that barked everything.
Oh god, So anytime I opened the door, she was barking.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
That's the best security.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
So there was no way I was getting past herning
with Squeaky. There's no way I was gonna get past
Squeaky because she was a very squeaky dog. She like
to bark. And also, my bedroom window was located right
underneath my parents, like my mom's window nice you know,
so it's like it's kind of hard to sneak out
and make a bunch of noise right under their window.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Right, and surely you would be a terrified of being
found out.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Well, there's that, you know. I didn't want to be
like a beaten within an inch of my life or whatever.
Alise had plans to go out that night. Alise had
French doors in her bedroom, so it seems like she
didn't really have any trouble sneaking out. She just opened
the door marched right out. Recently, Elise had become a
bit rebellious. I mean, it doesn't seem like she was

(33:53):
doing anything too crazy in my opinion, sneaking out of
the house. I'd say that's kind of fairly common for
a lot of kids. It is, but I think that's like,
I mean, it's dangerous and I don't recommend doing it,
but I think a lot of kids do that at
some point.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Well, and of course they have no idea how truly
dangerous that is. For one, anything could happen, you know,
depending on who you're going around or what situations you're
going getting into. And then the second part of that is,
if something does happen, your parents, loved ones, friends, everybody
has no idea where you are or who you went with,

(34:32):
absolutely so they can do nothing. They can do nothing
to help you.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
So, like I said, I think a lot of kids
did this. Maybe it was just back in the nineties,
when we were young. I don't know if kids today
are still sneaking out. Parents have like ring cameras, nest
you know, all that, so it might be a little
more difficult for kids to sneak out today. Plus kids
today don't seem like they really want to leave the
house at all, really, or maybe that's just our kids.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Well, they don't have to sneak out. They have their
phones and they can bring the world in to their room.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, they don't even want to, like go anywhere. She
had been experimenting with marijuana at school.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Like alcohol, some laboratory tests with the marijuana.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yes, she was just making sure it didn't have fin on.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
It, because she traveled over to this beaker this five
hundred here.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
No, Dylan, she's taken a toke under the bleachers before
p class. That kind of stuff you goofy, I.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Say, I always wondered about that because I couldn't imagine.
Of course, I didn't try anything untill I was a
little older in all, but I couldn't imagine being hot
at school.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
No, No, I never smell.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, it seems like a very uh like something I
wouldn't want to do, And I.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Remember kids doing it like there were certain spots they
would sneak off during certain class periods, or go down
with the parking lot, get into their car and smoke.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
I mean, you know, get high, then go do english.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
It happens. And again like experimenting with like pot and alcohol,
it doesn't seem in my opinion, like that's just completely
unheard of. Is it rebellious? Yes? Is it the worst
thing your kids can do? Eh? I mean, I don't
think it's like out there.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
No, And I'm sure people have varying opinions on how
bad that is, but it's certainly not out of the
ordinary or you've at least heard of someone doing it right.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Right, But she did get in trouble at school. School
officials contacted her parents to say that a Lease seemed
to be under the influence while she was in class.
Alise had smoked weed and drink some alcohol before school
that day. Oops, not good thing, so she was suspended.
Her parents, Lisa Anne and Dave Poller, did not take

(36:50):
the situation lightly. They immediately placed Elise in a drug
treatment program. When they tried to address her recent attitude
and behavior, she told them everything was fine, nothing was
going on with her, but you know at that age, Dylan,
the last thing teenagers want to do most of the
time is have an honest conversation with their parents, right.
I remember fifteen, I would have rather died than tell

(37:13):
my parents like anything that was happening in my life.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Well, and I think a lot of young people feel
that way to a certain degree.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
You know, I was definitely like nothing. I've tried to
speak as few words to my parents as possible. I'm fine, Yeah, gosh,
leave me alone. You know, up until this point at
least had been a really good kid. She was an
excellent soccer player, lots of friends, popular. I mean, you know,

(37:42):
her parents are thinking, well, she's probably trying to like
just kind of figure out who she is. She's testing boundaries.
Some kids like to do risky things, you know, to rebel,
to feel cool, to try to fit in, you know,
being a good girl or a goodie goodie that could
be considered workie by your classmates, right, peer pressure, And

(38:04):
I just I don't really know what was going on
with Alase. Alas had tried to sneak out before but
had been caught. So the next morning, Lisa Ann and
Dave realize their daughter is gone and she's lied to them,
Alis didn't go to bed, she had stuffed the bed
with pillows, and I'm sure by now they're freaking off
and probably a little pissed off as well. Well, yeah,
freaking out.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
You know, that's one of those deals in freaking off too,
just like duddy.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Oh maybe I don't know, so.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, it's one of those deals where you're scared mad
at the same time as a parent.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Her parents reach out to police, and of course law
enforcement isn't taking her disappearance too seriously given her age
and recent behavior. They think she's a runaway. And honestly,
I mean I can kind of understand that sentiment a
little bit, to be like, well, you know, she's been
giving you trouble. She's been you know, she's been using drugs.
She put her in drug rehab, Like she's probably just

(38:56):
taken off for the evening or a few days.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Well yeah, but I mean that still is not going
to stop them from like maybe looking at least in
the local area.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
We mean, I get that her parents don't buy the
runaway theory. They know their daughter and although she had
recently been a little shit, they knew she was not
a runaway. I mean, we all know our kids. They
felt something more sinister had happened. Again, I mean, we're parents,
We know our kids best, right, we know what they're like,
and you know, a lot of times law enforcement doesn't

(39:27):
really take the parent's word for it. Yeah, but at
least had a lot of exciting things happening in her
life at the time. She was playing soccer again. She
has a lot of friends, she's really popular, and her
family is planning to move to another town. Alist had
been looking forward to this move because she thought Royal Grande,
the town where they lived, She's like, this place sucks

(39:50):
and it seemed to be kind of One of the
big reasons that they wanted to move was to get
at Lease into a different school system, because you know,
she's been having some trouble making some bad choices, maybe
not hanging out with the best people, and she was
very outgoing. She didn't have any trouble making new friends,
so they knew that a fresh start would be fine

(40:11):
for her.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Right And I'm sure they're hoping that maybe if she's
in with the wrong crowd now, maybe she can get
some new friends who will motivate her in better ways
to kind of get her act together.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Right, And Alisa's the youngest of I'm sorry, she's the oldest,
said youngest. She's the oldest of four siblings, and she
loved her younger siblings and there's no way she would
leave them. Like she was a great big sister and
really adored her you know, her siblings. So that was
another thing. They're like, she would not take off. She
loves these kids too much. Alisa's missing person case made headlines.

(40:47):
I mean again, you know, you got a fifteen year
old girl goes missing. It's a big story. Tips and
leads start rolling in. Reports say she's been seen in
San Luis Apispo, California. Police search that, but they can't
find her. Her family is hopeful because people have claimed
to see her, so maybe she's just hiding out. She'll

(41:09):
come home.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Well yeah, they're probably hoping that maybe she'll see herself
in papers or on TV and know that this is
kind of blown out of proportion and she better just
get her butt home.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Elisa's grandmother also named Elise. She was it's her namesake
she was named for. Her grandmother made a heartfelt plea
for her to return home, but then days turn into weeks,
and then months and there is no sign of Elise.
Not a good feeling for these folks. Nine months later,
there is a bizarre turn of events. A boy named

(41:43):
Royce Casey walks into a police station and makes a
startling confession quote, I killed Elise Pauler the words that
come out of his mouth so.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Here his cases kind of went cold, and I'm sure
the investigators at that point were very surprised for him
to show up and basically make a full confession.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Royce Casey tells law enforcement everything. He spares no details.
Royce explains that he, along with two other teenagers fifteen
year old Jacob de Lashmutt and fourteen year old Joseph Fierrella,
were also responsible. That the three of them had killed
the lease. Okay, these three boys have reputations for being

(42:28):
like burnouts, kind of losers, outcasts.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Well, it's not a good reputation.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
And when I say burnout, I don't mean like they
were just smoking weed. They were using meth.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Oh I thought you was. You were going to say
they felt stagnated in their career, Well they yeah, and
they were just burnout.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
They felt like accounting just wasn't for them anymore. They
don't want to be in the finance department.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Right, they're like paramedics, hot turnover, how burnout? Right?

Speaker 1 (42:57):
No, they're using meth and they're I mean there are
fourteen fifth teen, that's pretty young. Well yeah, I mean
I don't know a lot about meth, but I assume
that's that's fairly young to get started.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
I have to wonder where the hell of dem kids?
Where kids that age even get math at?

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Well, I don't know, but they do. And it is
California in the nineties, Okay, I'll have been a little
maybe more accessible than.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Well, I mean it's everywhere now, so I guess it's
not that big of a surprise, right.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
These guys had stop going to school. They spent their
days using speed, cocaine, acid, sniffing glue, huffing paint, just
like all the gross stuff to get you know, to
get a high.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Damn. It's like cheap drugs there, and that literally is
the stuff that will just have you acting.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Like snorting you know, canda air, like you've killed all your.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Brain cells, millions of brain cells.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
The boys would spend a time at a place they
called the Pipe of Death. I mean, it's just like
old drainage pipe. But they like to go there and
hang out. Kick Rocks do the drugs.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Yeah, but the pop up death sounds metal, well, I
mean it does.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Now, these three little edge lords had recently become acquainted
with Satan. They were into Satanism. Okay, okay, they claim
to be members of the Church of Satan. And these
idiots had even ordered membership cards at a whopping one
hundred dollars apiece just so they could like walk around
like I'm a Satanist. Look, I'm a card carrying member.

(44:36):
Oh my gosh, you know, like they're in the club.
But they're not real Satanists. They completely bastardized the beliefs uh.
I mean, you know a lot of people I think
misunderstand Satanism.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Well, they definitely as.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
A religion, if you will, there's Luciferian Satanists, and that's
vastly different from like the Church of Satan followers or
the Satanic Temple.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, I mean that can the Church of Satan or
the Satanic Temple, as far as I know, can basically
be considered more of a political affiliation, more like atheists,
more like atheists, because they truly don't believe in God
or the devil in the classical or the traditional.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Frail like the Satanic Temple is.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
It's more in a nutshell. It's more like, if you
get to have freedom of religion, I'm going to say
this is my religion and publicly, you know, publicly show
my point of view.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
Right like in time of as Church of Satan. It's
very if you read the Satanic Bible, it's very like me, me, me,
I put me first, put yourself first, believe in yourself.
And they did like rituals and black masses and stuff,
but it was definitely more for the flair and presentation

(46:05):
more so than actual acts of like worshiping the devil
and believing that like some supernatural creature was gonna rise
up from hell and like show reveal himself to you.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah. Yeah, it's more for like the shock factors, like
rich theater kids.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah, I mean, was like a Carnival Barker, right, he's
a showman. So while these boys are playing Satanist, the
three of them become obsessed with this idea that they
need to sacrifice a virgin. They talk about a NonStop.
I mean, it got to the point that people around
them started questioning, like did they really kill a virgin?

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Oh my gosh, have they done this? You know?

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Joe Fiorella was more invested in the idea, like it
was kind of like his thing. He's the one that
chattered about it NonStop, really into it, kept kind of
pushing this idea that we need to sacrifice a virgin.
He had been reading a lot of Alice Crowley books.
He even participated in some of these rituals. I guess
Crowley's weird rituals, right, I don't know. There's a lot

(47:09):
of butt stuff and Crowley's weird rituals.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
There's a lot of fluids. Butt stuff is a musking.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
To play with some feces and semen.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
So if you're not into that, you're not going to
get very far. And now, these rituals, I think a
lot of people don't realize it's not something a lot
of times what they consider these true rituals. It's not
something you do like in an hour, right, right, some
of these can go over the course of days or

(47:38):
even months to go the full through the entire ritual,
to do all the things, line everything up to get
I guess, a reward or get some kind of power
from the.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
Ritual, some sort of intention with the ritual, right, Well,
I mean, let's be honest, these kids are probably like
drawing a weird assigil and then just like jerking off
on it or something.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Well, and this is dear at the end of the
era known as the Satanic Panic, and a lot of
things were misunderstood and bastardized by everyone, including people who
claim to be Satanists.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Well, now there is this thing that Joe did, Dylan,
he participated in this certain ritual where you would like
kill a frog, almost crucify a frog, and then eat it.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Okay, Okay, I'm just.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Wondering did he use an air fryer? Like whose kitchen
is he using to prepare the frog? Are his parents
in all this? I don't know. I just think like
my mother would have been furious if I had sacrificed
a frog and then use some of her like good
you know cast iron panda saltee?

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Right right?

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Is he eating the frog raw? Like? I don't know
this information, but you know he thinks that somehow by
sacrificing a frog and eating it, like yes, I'm becoming powerful.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
So he would make like a tiny cross.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
I guess to hog two it's like a little arts
and craft project.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, like some popsicle students.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yes, yes, Now, it seems the boys wanted power, which
they believed Satan would provide them. The boys had dreamed
of becoming rock stars, so instead of hard work, you know,
learning to play instruments and practicing and dedicating themselves, you know,
like a like Metallica did. I mean they were pretty
young when they hit it big, but they were very talented.

(49:33):
They spent a lot of years practicing, you know, practice
makes perfect. They didn't want to have to go through
all that, so they just thought, well, Satan will make
our sucky ass band famous, like all of a sudden,
if I worship the devil, he's gonna give me magic fingers.
I'm gonna play some you know, amazing power ballads, and
I'm gonna be all over him TV.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
They'll be the metal version of Robert Johnson exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
So they had this shitty band and it's called Hatred,
along with another kid named Travis Williams. These boys practice Satanism,
at least their own odd version of it, you know,
like eating frog ass. Hatred was modeled after Slayer allegedly.
I mean, we all know Slayer rocks, but these little

(50:19):
guys are never going to be Slayer.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
I want to start a band called stink Fist.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
I think that's already been started, is it really? Yeah?
I think there's already a band called that one. Damn
like a daily and a dollar short stink Ass. Maybe
there's a stink Ass and you look that one up.
I don't know why you would want to call.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Your band, not because it's edgy. It makes people think.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
No, it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yeah. Yeah, my first hit off of our first LP
would be called smell my Finger. Like smell my Finger.
You know, you get it.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
I want a divorce. There is something very very wrong
with you. I don't disagree with that if they spilled
the blood of a virgin, they will be able to
grind their axes better. I mean, you know this all
makes sense to me. I know that. I often think
if only I were sacrificing frogs, this podcast would be

(51:17):
number one on the True crime charts.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Well, if you were allowing a frog oftentimes known as
the you know, Satan's Familiar or something like that, you
let you already got a third nipple, right, so you
let that frog suckle your teat. Oh I don't know
about that your third nipple, your little teat and uh yeah,
what's funny is I don't even think they even put

(51:42):
in any kind of study or deep dives into what
they were actually trying to copy. And I think a
lot of this is just they assume this is how
it works. Stupid as kids, you know what I mean,
And it's really a dumb way to go about something.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
They scheme to find the perfect virgin. Joe had this
idea that the perfect virgin would have blonde hair and
blue eyes. Okay, again, I don't know why. Joe already
kind of had what has been described as an obsession
with Elise. Joe thought she would be the ultimate sacrifice,

(52:22):
a true sin against God, like killing this beautiful blonde,
blue eyed girl.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Jacob and Elise had taken a substance abuse class together.
They went to the same school when Jacob would go
to school, so I don't know if they were like
friendly with each other, but it does seem while they
were in the substance abuse class they kind of got
to know each other, or that's kind of what got
them talking a little bit. He devises his plan to

(52:50):
get Aalise alone, like he knew from being in that
drug treatment program that Alise liked to smoke pot. Alise
had been known to hang out with these older boys
who would get her high. Jacob was like, dude, this
is what we do. We get some weed and we
invite her to smoke with us. Okay, and that is
how we lure the virgin to the Pipe of Death.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Hey, Virgin, you wont hit this dude.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Yeah, pretty much like that. After chatting and making a
Lease feel comfortable, they invited her to smoke pot at
the Pipe of Death where the boys like to hang out.
A few times, Elise joined them to smoke weed, and
now that they had kind of earned her trust, they
made further plans. You know, in this plot, this murder plot,

(53:34):
the boys attempted to murder Elise with a brilliant plan, Dylan,
but it failed. Travis Williams, this guy who kind of
hung out with them sometimes. They would have him fall
down an embankment and then he thought Elise would be like,
oh here, let me help you and try to come
pull him up or whatever, and that he would have
a knife and get her. But when they tried this plan,

(53:59):
a last sees them and the boys start chanting do it,
do it, do it, and she's just like.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Huh, what a stupid plan?

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Right, Well, it seems at least thought they were joking,
like playing some kind of prank on her. She definitely
did not take it seriously. I don't know why she
continued to hang out with them after this. Maybe she
thought they were cool. I mean, they're in a band,
they're worshiping Satan. Or like, maybe she just thought they
were goofy and she could get weed from them.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Yeah, I mean, who knows what was going through her mind,
but yeah, it could be she thought that they were
edge Lord's and she wanted to be part of it.
Or maybe she thought they were ridiculous and you know,
just to I can.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Take advantage of these dumbasses.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Yeah, and it was just entertainment, immy weed entertainment on
her part, you know, by just being around them.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Right. Alice had also been described as a very trusting person.
I mean, I'm sure she's knives. She's fifteen. We're all
naive at fifteen. I would say most of us are
naive at fifteen. Uh, No young person is thinking like, hey,
my new friend group wants to sacrifice me to Satan.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Right. I don't think anybody thinks that.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Honestly, unless they come hang out with us, and then
they might wonder.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
No, we're not. We're not endorsing Satan or worshiping him
on this podcast, even though my wife hisses very.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Well, I don't know what you're talking about. The day
before Elise went missing, she had been hanging around with
another group of friends. Some resources imply that it was
a bit of a party. There was like music and
a keg. I mean lots of people. That sounds like
a party to me. Jacob attended this party, and while
they're there, he tells Elise that he got some chronic

(55:39):
and acid. Okay, got that boumonic chronic that make you choke.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
So let's go down that bank again, and this time
we're going to have chronic an.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Acid he would be happy to share with her. That's
when Jacob and Elise exchange phone numbers. The next evening,
Jacob calls Elise two different times. He invites her out,
telling her like where they should meet. Alise knows she's
gonna have to you know, she's gonna need to sneak out,
like her parents are probably not gonna let her go

(56:08):
out after dark with this strange boy that they don't know,
right right, I mean, sounds like you're up to no good.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Like most parents would feel the same way. I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Well, yeah, once Alise knows the details of where to meet,
she tells her parents she's going to bed, and then
she you know, she goes, stacks all the pillows up,
she sneaks out, she meets the boys. Travis Williams did
not hang out that night because he'd been arrested for
shooting an elderly woman.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
My god, so he's in.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Jail on another murder. Okay, the boys. They smoke weed
with the lease. It was pretty casual. Some reports say
they dropped acid. I can't confirm this, Like, I'm not
really sure if they smoked weed and dropped acid or
if they were just smoking weed. The boys then suggested
that they go to a eucalyptus grove to smoke some
more pot, because you know, you need to travel. Well, yeah,

(57:02):
we smoked it here, but we should smoke it over
there too.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Why would you want to just like relax and hang
out in the same spot.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
They're like, well, you know this eucalypsus grub, there's like
a field there. It's gonna give us more privacy. We
can smoke and hang out. We don't have to worry
about anyone seeing us. There's koalas, Yeah, yeah, a couple
kangaroos in California that might punch you in the face.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
You know. Koalas are mean right how they are, and
people could get out of me.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
But you're cool.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Well, they think they're cute, but they have like these
terrible claws and like a very shitty disposition.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
I love it, and I wonder I like them so much. Now,
out of nowhere, one of the boys pulls a Lease
by her hair with such force that she's like not
to the ground or kind of like thrown to the ground.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
The boys then grab her by the feet and hair
and are forcing her onto her back. Jacob takes off
his belt, wraps it around her neck and tries to
strangle her. Royce Casey holds her down. Joe pulls out
a knife. He stabs it into Alisa's throat, then he
passed it around so the other two boys could stab
her in the throat as well.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Damn. So just poor girls hanging out with these goobers
having a you know, I guess a good time because she,
you know, continues to hang out with them, and just
out of nowhere they attack her like this.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
They had even like planned this murder, like premeditated this
murder to the point that they had chosen this knife
and like ordered it. Oh my god, had it shipped,
you know, just in time.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
The special dagger. Yeah, probably had like a snake handle.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
He did not. I mean, this is terrible. We're kind
of making fun of it, but this is terrible.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
No, it's horrible.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
And I can only cause are a bunch of dipshits, and.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
I can only imagine what's going through her mind when
they start attacking her for real.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Well, what's so sad dying is that one of the
boys will say Elise was crying out for her mom
while this was happening, and that she was praying damn.
I mean, that just breaks my heart to think she's
calling out for her mom. She wasn't dying fast enough,
in their opinion, so they began to stomp her body
after she was dead. The three boils boils, the three boys,

(59:15):
We'll call them boils because they're basically a big fucking
gross boil. They defiled her corpse and I'm not going
to go into great detail about what they did to her,
but I'm gonna guess you can imagine.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Yeah, just unsavory thing. Oh you've already killed her. I
mean that's terrible in its own but then desecrating her remains, well, I.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Don't even like to talk about necrophilia, but that's been
suggested Jesus or Yeah, and there's some evidence to suggest
that they went back on multiple occasions to do it again.
Gee days after man. In the months after a Lisa's murder,

(01:00:03):
Royce stopped hanging out with Joe and Jacob. He started
going to church. I'm sure he had a guilty conscience
and he felt like he needed to be able to
forgive himself. He knew what he had done was wrong.
He wants to repent. He would later say that he
was being haunted by a last he was having these
visions of her, these flashbacks. I mean, at least we

(01:00:25):
know this little monster has a soul.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Well, when you have some young people like this, I
think it's one of those situations where you know, when
you get certain people together and they get called up
in kind of their own bullshit and they do something
that is in reality very serious and horrible, and they
don't understand how. I mean, it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
The ramifications of what they've done well, yeah, that they
literally can't live with it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Right. You're not, oh yeah, you're not resting, even though
you're a piece of shit and you don't deserved arrest,
but you're you can't get over it, right. I mean,
I guess you got some PTSD of sorts going on,
and some people realize they just can't live with what
they've done well, right, I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Mean, you know, you're fantasizing, you're talking about this like,
oh yeah, that sounds cool, but when it comes down
to brass tacks, like you know, I think people in
many of these crime cases get themselves into these situations
and like, once it's really happening, right, they can't even

(01:01:33):
believe it's happening. And then afterwards they're like, what the
fuck did I just do? Like it kind of hits
them all at once. Is this terrible thing? Well?

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Yeah, because this horrible event's going to involve all your senses.
You're gonna have sensations and experiences that you probably never
had before. Smells, things like that, and I'm sure it
would be unless you're just a full on psychopath, sociopath
with absolutely no empathy or feelings or conscience or guilty conscience.

(01:02:07):
And most people aren't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
That, right, Yeah, I mean, it seems like Royce Casey
is not exactly that. You know, he's feeling remorseful, He's
feeling really bad about what he did, guilty. Royce had
considered Joe and Jacob might even try to kill him
once he stopped being their friend. When he saw a
missing poster for a lease, that's when he decided it
was time to go to police and you know, just

(01:02:29):
tell them everything. Royce Casey first made a confession to
a clergyman who urged him, you need to go talk
to police. So he was like reaching out, like he
wants some help with this. On March sixteenth of nineteen
ninety six, Royce went to the police to make a
full confession. After admitting what he had done, he took
police to the field where they had abandoned Elisa's body

(01:02:51):
eight months earlier, damn and though her body was badly
decomposed and autopsy would reveal some interesting details like, for example,
people at last did not die from the stab wounds.
She died from blood loss at last had been stabbed
twelve times, she had been strangled, and there was evidence
matching Royce's story that they had stomped on her body,

(01:03:11):
like even her neck area at least was likely alive
but dying when the three had sexually assaulted her.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
That's horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
The last moments of this poor girl's life was just
hell on earth. And the whole time she's crying out
for her mom. I mean, like just reading when I
was researching and like reading that, it like almost made
me cry. My god. Right now, I feel like it's
just so sad.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Well, no, it's so senseless and dumb and horrible and
violent all at the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Joe and Jacob were arrested quickly after. The boys didn't
deny any of it as a matter of fact, they
admitted that what they had, you know, they had done
this and we've been planning it. We premeditated it, like
this isn't something new. We'd actually spent you know, week planning,
ordered a knife, had even tried to kill her one time.

(01:04:05):
It didn't work. We tried to kill her again. Joe
took full responsibility for being the idea man. He was like, yeah,
it is my idea. To kill a virgin, But I
mean the other boys were equally as invested and involved,
but it's almost like he was proud or wanted to
take credit, like he was the ringleader of this. The

(01:04:25):
boys were charged with murder, conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy
to commit rape, and kidnapping. Authorities tried to pursue torture
and rape charges, but those eventually were like dropped from
I guess the charges.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Well they shouldn't have been because all that certainly happened.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Court records said the murder was one of the worst
in San Luis e Pizbo County. All three boys went
to trial and each was convicted. They were sentenced to
twenty five to twenty six years in prison. When Casey
was asked by the prosecutor, why did they commit the murder,
he said, quote, it was to receive power from the

(01:05:05):
devil to help them play guitar better.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Geez, and they still can't play guitar.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Joe admitted that he was the first to stab Elise,
but denied most of Royce Casey's like version of events.
He kind of had his own story where you know,
he wants to like, he wants to take credit, but
also deny that he was really involved in the murder.
You know what I mean, he's a coward.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Yeah, he wants to take credit, but he wants to
distance himself I'm sure from the worst elements of the
crime exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
After the murder convictions, the Polers fight filed a lawsuit
against the Man Slayer, claiming their songs post Mortem and
Dead Skin Mask were an instructional guide which led to
Elisa's murder. The lawsuit was filed in nineteen ninety six,
but didn't go to court until two thousand, after the
murder trials. A judge threw the case out of court,

(01:06:03):
basically saying, like, you can't blame the artists. They're protected
by free speech.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Well, and also, I think another reason you can't blame
the artist in a situation like this is because if
there was no Slayer, it would be some other inspiration
for these dumb ass kids there. It would be something,
you know what I mean. Once they set their mind
they were going to do this. I think it was inevitable, right,
it was going to happen one way or the other.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
The Polers launched a second lawsuit claiming that Slayer knowingly
distributed harmful material to miners. Another judge dismissed this suit,
saying that the music was not harmful to miners, and also,
like who can say definitively, like what's harmful? What's obscene?

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Right? You get into that whole discussion about the subjective
nature of what's obsceeding.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
In July twenty sixteen, Royce Casey had his first parole hearing,
but was denied release. In December of twenty seventeen, Jacob
was denied parole, and in October of twenty eighteen, Joe
Fierrolla filed a habeas corpus petition challenging his continued incarceration.
He argued that his trial attorney did not challenge his
mental fitness for trial back in nineteen ninety five. Royce

(01:07:18):
and Jacob testified at the twenty twenty one hearing, saying
that Joe knew exactly what he was doing at the
time of the murder, damn that he had been with it,
He planned it like he knew exactly what he was doing,
and despite whatever mental challenges he says he has or faced,

(01:07:39):
he was fully involved in this.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
So in no way was he mentally deficient or out
of control of his own actions.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Right. Royce Casey was granted parole in March of twenty
twenty one. Now, during this time, he you know, actually
kind of turned his life around. The parole bar considered
he had twenty years of being considered a model prisoner
good behavior, including completing a series of rehabilitation programs. He
earned his ged. He served as a mentor to other

(01:08:12):
inmates and had been working towards a bachelor's degree in psychology.
His plans after prison were to relocate to the Los
Angeles area and work as a substance abuse counselor. Dave
Pollard didn't oppose Royce's release from prison. He thought Royce
was suitable for parole and was not really a public risk,

(01:08:34):
like a public safety risk at this point. Right, Yeah,
so they didn't really fight his release from prison.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
What do you think in a situation like this do
you think?

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Well, I think it takes a lot of forgiveness. And
I don't know if I want to say it takes
a big person to I I'm trying to figure out
how to say, Like, I guess it takes a big
person to have forgiveness and to be able to to
know like you killed my child, But I'm going to
forgive you, and I recognize that you've made strides to

(01:09:07):
be better and do better, right, and that when you
are released, you want to go out in the world
and help people and sort of you know, pay like
give back to society, you know, for what you had done,
that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
Right, Yeah, I mean, I truly believe, as I've said before,
that forgiveness is for the benefit more so of the
families of victims and things like that, so they're not
carrying this weight or this hatred with them. But I mean,
I admire doing that, but I just don't know if
I would be capable of something like that, just letting

(01:09:43):
go of all that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
But well, right, I mean, I think that would be
challenging for every like any of us that had to
make that decision. We're not in his shoes like we
you know, we don't really know what he's going through
as a parent you've lose your loved one. I mean,
I guess you just never really know. And you know,
they say time heals all wounds, though I don't know

(01:10:06):
if having a child murdered ever really heals or goes away.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
But I mean, he's seeing them get degrees and have
these pursuits and try to kind of grow and change
and do good things. Will be hard for me to
stomach just knowing that all that was taken away from
my daughter or my family member.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Well I get that, but I guess you have to
look on the other side of it and say, well,
you know, this young man has turned his life around.
He is sorry for what he did, he's repented, he's
served his time, like he's paid his dues in prison.
And you know, if anything, my daughter, you know, my

(01:10:50):
daughter had some impact on him because she was this beautiful,
amazing person, and he realizes the absolute tragedy of what
he's done, gravesty of what he's done really and can
recognize like he's taken this life and so now I
need to be somebody better.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
I mean, I don't know, right, hopefully no one will
have to None of us would ever have to deal
with something like that. It's just it's just so terrible,
so horrible to lose someone and to know that they
went through that horrible, horrific stuff before they passed.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
No, it's really terrible. So that delashmut Jacob, that's an
interesting last name. De Lashmunt. He was granted parole from
a correctional training facility in Solidad, California, and was released
from prison. But then he was you know, so this
was in twenty twenty three that he was granted parole,

(01:11:52):
but then it was overturned by Governor Gavin Newsom. He
was granted parole again in May, and knew some sentate
to the full parole Board for review in June, and
the board upheld the parole. So he was freed from
prison in July twenty to twenty three. Wow, the parole Board,
as we know, granted Casey's parole. So it seems that

(01:12:14):
Joe Fierilla is the only one that is still incarcerated
that I can find.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Okay, so one of the three is still in jail. Yeah,
which leads me to believe that they're maybe not showing
remorse in as obvious a way, or they're not a
model prisoner. They have had other issues, right perhaps.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
But anyway, you know, this very tragic case, the death,
the murder of Alice Poller, especially by these three dumbasses
who thought they were going to sacrifice her and become
rock stars. Yeah, it's just so stupid. No, it is
so stupid, stupidest senseless things I've ever heard. So interestingly,

(01:12:59):
it inspired the movie Jennitor's Body.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Yeah, and in a way you can see the inspiration
just from the point of view of it is like
a revenge story, right right. It's almost like, in a
weird way, the Jennifer character is given.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
The power that at least never had, that at.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Least never had to do these bad things to other
people who may have tried to take advantage of her. Yeah,
that's pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
It's interesting for writers just to see where they get
their inspiration from, right, because there are times when I
come across a story, even a crime story, and think,
you know, wow, that you could really make that into
an interesting novel or movie, right right, I mean you
draw on inspiration, I guess from what's all around you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
And honestly, like I said, I did not get a
chance to re screen Jennifer's Body. I'm certainly going to
try to do better before our next spooky installment along
these lines. But I'm going to rewatch the movie. And
I think because I had no idea that it was
based at all on a you know, a real life event,

(01:14:20):
and I think it will certainly change my perspective in
watching the movie, and I just think it's some you know,
silly kind of own.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Yeah. I mean I think when you know the story
and then see that, Okay, this kind of inspired the movie,
it does make the movie seem like, Okay, well, maybe
Jennifer's kind of about us. You know, she's getting revenge.
She's taken out these guys who were you know, just
sexual predators and or you know, only want her body

(01:14:51):
and don't really care about her.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
You know, I don't know, they can't hurt her now. Yeah,
she's the one doling out.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
The punishments, the just desserts.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Right, all right, Yeather, well, thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
That's our first installment during this spooky season, and I
look forward to our other midweeks and we'll try to
make them more towards the midweek if life allows it.
And yeah, I can't wait for what's next? Or are
you gonna tease us which one's up next? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
I was gonna tell you guys if you want to
watch ahead so that you can listen next week. Our
movie that we will be watching for next week's episode
is a haunting in Connecticut. Okay, we the Haunting in Connecticut.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
I don't know that I've ever seen that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
I have to say, when I first saw this movie,
I mean, now I'm like, okay, maybe is a little cheesy,
but when I first watched it, I was kind of
freaked out. Oh really, Yeah, but it is loosely based
on a true story, so it'll be fun to talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Okay, I'll certainly have to screen that one, and I
cannot wait till the next time. And right quick. Really
enjoyed our first installment of the West Memphis three deep
Dive on a Patreon. Hope the patrons are enjoying that.
Can't wait for the second part of that to continue
the conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
We'll begin that released here fairly soon.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Yeah, and look forward to this week's episode. I know
Heather has us a great story. As usual, We're.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
Gonna discuss a serial killer on this upcoming episode. We
haven't had a we haven't really talked about like a
serial killer in a minute. We haven't discussed a serial
killer for a minute, all right, and this guy is
It's like one of those stories where you're like, how
the fuck is this guy not like known like a

(01:16:41):
household name because he was fucked up right and did
horrific things.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Damn literally. Yeah, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
I'm like, how's this guy not like a gaycy or something.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Cannot wait for that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
All right, Dylan, until next time. Also, if you have
a Halloween inspired story for us, something you want to share.
It can be you know, a ghost story, some real
life experience you saw UFO, some little naked munchkin showed
up in your bathroom window and told you the world

(01:17:14):
was coming to an end.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
Whatever, a weird treat experience.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Yeah. You can send us an email to Mountain Murders
Podcast at gmail dot com and become part of our
October Listeners Story episode.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Oh man, I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
We have gotten some good ones, Dylan.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
I love listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
Collecting them, so hopefully we'll have a really good, big, fit,
juicy episode. Oh, just sink your little vampire teeth into it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
I love listener story episodes. Always have such a blest
with those.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
All right, guys, We'll see in a couple of days
with our weekly episode.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
Bye Dylan, Bye,