Pazuzu Algarad

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Dark Cast Network.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to the dark side of podcasting.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Have you ever wondered how in the hell did I
get here? You are not alone. My podcast is called
True Crime Connections with an advocacy podcast where I talk
with survivors of toxic relationships, abuse of marriages. We all
have one thing in common, How in that hell did

(00:33):
we get here? And how do we get out? How
do we find our self worth again? Well, if you
feel that way, come check out my podcast because not
only do you get actionable steps to take to help
you take your life back, but you can listen to
how others have dealt with their own situations including addiction,

(00:58):
suicidal aviation, and low self worth and respect. We can
get you on the right track. Make sure to check
out True Crime Connection.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Devil is on his way.

Speaker 1 (01:26):

Speaker 2 (01:28):

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Mother for God. The devil gonna make you pay foul
to your knees. Devil is on his way. Foul to
your knees. Devil gonna make you pay fall to your knees.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Devil.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Hey, y'all, welcome back to Mountain Murderers.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I'm Heather Dylan, y'all. In case you were wondering what
Dylan has done lately. Just a few moments ago, we
were discussing October. We can't believe Halloween is just around
the corner. And then Dylan said something about it's gonna

(02:09):
be September.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Soon, Yeah, next, next, right, Well, by just a moment ago,
she October.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Is followed by November.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
That's right. Yeah, yeah, by a moment ago. She meant,
like our fifth take for me to get it right.
I don't know. I'm just speaking out my ass. It's
what I do. It's my bread and butter. So here
we are, but we are wondering what the hell happened
to October. Those pooke month's already almost spent.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
We had discussed decorating the yard for Halloween. We were
going to get all into it this year, and now
it's just around the corner and the only thing we
have outside is an led hologram of Jason that shines
on our house.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah. Yeah, it was a quick install. It's all we got,
it's all we're gonna get.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
All we got any pumpkins out this year?

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Well, at one point I decided to go just like
low key, just very so I decided.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, that translates to Dylan, is too lazy to hang
any decorations.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
True, it is true. I don't even have a ladder,
so I just don't feel like getting all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
See exactly. Yeah, yeah, you make things really exciting in
our household, Dylan.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, I'm glad I can do that for you.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Other I have seen videos, viral videos of Halloween decorations.
I saw a home I believe it is in Malden
were someplace in South Carolina, in the upstate. This entire
yard is covered in clowns. Oh, they had to have
like one hundred and fifty clowns in this yard, all

(03:48):
these animatronics, creepy clowns.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Damn, they're going all out everywhere.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
It was quite a clown spread. It was too much.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
I saw a home that appeared to be on fire
was the Halloween decoration, and it was very realistic looking,
so much so that locals were calling emergency numbers to
report this house as Bernie.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, I know, that's kind of a weird one.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's definitely something for sure.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, some people really get into it, and you know,
really put their hearts and souls in Halloween and Christmas
as well.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
The decorations you mean, yeah, without further adodyl and we're
going to get into our case. And I have to say,
when we were discussing this episode, we both thought we
had already covered this story, right, actually had to go
back into our files and it's not listed, So we

(04:49):
did not cover this. We've probably discussed it a time
or two previously, yeah, but we've never launched a full episode.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
I even felt strongly that we had covered it. Heather
had to look and make sure we have not. But honestly,
it's one part dumb assery and two parts scary, right Yeah. Now,
I mean really, on the surface of it, you're like,
oh God, this person's whatever, But when you really dig

(05:19):
into it, it's quite a shocking crime. Well, I think you.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Get a sense of almost like a Manson type situation.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, yeah, which.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Makes it frightening when you have some charismatic leader who
can kind of get people to do their bidding.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Who might smell okay.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Moving along, Clemens, North Carolina, is located southwest of Winston
Salem in the Piedmont region of the state. Life and
Clemens could probably be described as low key. Many folks
who reside in the small town commute to jobs in Winston, say,
Greensboro States full.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
So it's a nice little piece of suburbia, right, it's
a suburban area.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
The town is known to be a bit conservative. There's
a lot of churches. It has that quote southern charm
if you will, Dylan. In recent years, it's seen quite
a bit of growth as migration into North Carolina continues.
I know a few years ago in North Carolina was
like number nine in migration. Yeah, folks are flocking to

(06:28):
the state. They've ruined their own states, so they want
to come ruin our state.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yes, they pushed us out. Yeah, that's all no longer
in North Carolina.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, they push us out, so we have to go
ruin someone else's community. Clintons made headlines a few years
ago when a man who called himself Pazuzu Algarad was
arrested for murder. Now, the headlines were sensational.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Dylan, Now what a name? Pazuzu algarag no Algaad? Yeah, wow,
Now where do you come up with something like that?

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Supposedly it's Arabico. We'll get into that.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah. The only time I've heard wasn't that The Demon
and the Exorcist?

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yes, Dylan, but you're jumping ahead, okay, all right. John
Alexander Lawson was born August twelfth of nineteen seventy eight
in San Francisco, California, to a young couple, Cynthia and
Timothy Lawson. When John is two years old, the family
moves to Clemens, which was Cynthia's hometown. She had actually
grown up in forthsythe County and attended Parkland High School.

(07:36):
John was primarily raised by his mother. His parents end
up splitting up. His father moves back to California, and
although he struggled with school, he had to repeat second
in ninth grade. John was considered a somewhat normal kid.
Cynthia and her son had a regular home wife, according
to her. When his parents split up he was around eight.

(07:58):
According to his mother, him was an alcoholic and a
drug addict. He was in and out of jail, couldn't
hold down a job, Not a good partner.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Right, No, that sounds like someone who's not going to
support you and help you with like upward mobility. Right,
You're supposed to continually improve your life as you grow. Right.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Tim moves back to California and seems to check out
of his son's life for the most part, has nothing
to do with his kid.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Has nothing to do with his kid.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
What a winner.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Cynthia works at probeland Chemical Company in Winston Salem as
a secretary. From an early age, John is interested in
horror movies. Now, in my experience, this leads to one
of two paths. Still and you become a serial killer
with sold down fangs, or you become a chunky, middle
aged podcaster who decorates their home with posters of leatherface.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Okay, so it's the only two choices.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah sure. Now, as a child, John allegedly liked wearing
a cape and vampire teeth around the house. Is this abnormal?

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Is going to say? Who does it? Right? I mean,
give me a good cape any day. I would wear
a cape. Right now?

Speaker 2 (09:07):
I have a cape. I know you'd actually have two capes.
I have like a costume cape, and then I have
a real cape that's wool black black wool cape.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Why aren't winter? Why are we not doing cape stuff?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
So you know what, I have three capes because then
I also have one that's like a sweater cape.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I could, Oh I need that one.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
What can I say?

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Because we have cool mornings, right now.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
It's called fashion. Dylan. John would say he really wanted
to be a vampire, and I say, dream big kid,
don't we all? Well?

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, I mean, who doesn't want to be the living undead?
You know it, existing off of the the souls and
sustenance of others, right right?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
My only issue is I wish someone to turn me
into a vampire when I was like in my twenties
so I could forever be young and thin and hot.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Like, I don't know if I don't want to be
a vampire, because then I would just be stuck like
forty five, right, swow you king? Yeah, thanks a lot, guys. However,
John was also a regular kid. He was described as happy, athletic.
He liked to play baseball and football. At some point,
John and his mom moved to Florida and then they

(10:19):
come back to North Carolina. According to his babysitter Carmen Duba,
John became violent around the age of eight. He was
physically abusing his mother. Cynthia took him in for a
psychiatric evaluation, but Carma said, I'm Carmen sorry, so that
she directly blames Cynthia for like being the problem that

(10:43):
her son's behavior was a reaction to his mother. Okay,
Cynthia was drinking heavily and quote going around with all
these guys oh Town, allegedly leaving her eight year old
son home alone while she was out chasing Dick.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Cynthia's out slanging it.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Right, So John was watching this play out night after night,
and it likely disturbed the young boy. Carmen said, he
really wasn't getting proper attention. Well, look, we're being a
lot of neglected, We're.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Being silly, but this is a terrible setting for a
child to be raised in.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Right, And though John will deny any kind of abuse,
I mean, we really don't know what he went through
during this time. Mom's got a string of fellas in
and out of the house. I mean, we know that
doesn't always turn into a bad situation, but it can
very easily. A lot of predators pray on single moms.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Well that's true, and you're you just short of a
full on predator. You just run the risk of personality conflicts,
abuse of any type emotional, sexual, physical, Right, all these
things go through the roof. Statistically when you bring a
non custodial parent, is that the right word, or just
personally a non biological parent into the household, right, and

(12:11):
of course biological parents that doesn't give you a pass.
There's plenty of you know, people who treat their own
kids like shit in various ways. But yeah, it was
just well.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
It's not even like she's bringing in a step dad
at this point. I mean, it's just like one night stands,
So that's not gonna play out.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Well, No, I think that's very unhealthy. I think even
if a child, even if someone can't remember back to
specific you know, incidents of abuse or anything like that,
I just think it really just gives them a feeling
of instability, which I think is very damaging for children.
And yeah, it's just an overall not good scene for

(12:52):
a kid to be raised like this. I mean it's not.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
As I mentioned, John repeated second grade and that's a
running theme throughout his academic career. If you want to
call it that he's a shitty student. He earns mostly f's.
He will admit to this. He has no problem with saying, yeah,
I don't make good grades.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Well, I mean he's not probably getting a lot of
support at home. So how do you expect a kid
to care about school if no one's helping them or
you know, giving them the proper I don't motivation.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
You know, it wasn't until she remarried that Cynthia noticed
a change in her son's behavior. Now this is according
to her, but others seem to have a different version
of events.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, and that seems to be a theme in this case.
You know, you have Cynthia's version what she thinks, But
I have to say, given the circumstance and the end
of the story which our listeners will see, I don't
know if I trust her version.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
More than one person has pointed to Cynthia and say,
like M, I directly blame her for most of what
went on. Cynthia noticed a change in her son's behavior.
As I mentioned, he didn't get along with his new stepfather,
Johnny James. The family moved into a house on knob
Hill Drive, which was an established neighborhood with what I

(14:16):
would call middle class brick homes. Yeah, manicured lawns, kids
playing in the streets.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
So it's a nice, normal, working class neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Right, Yeah, clean, nice neighborhood, safe, I mean, ideally, you know,
the kind of place I would say most families want
to live reminds me of like the neighborhood we live
in now. Johnny owned a small business. He was a
mechanic and owned some kind of like custom striping business.
So I'm assuming that means pin striping.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Right, like owned cars.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Right. Since Don did not get along with the stepfather,
he became withdrawn socially reclusive. Now Johnny myths that he
was hated by his step son. But here's the thing.
John was accustomed to being treated like this certain type
of way and being able to like bully his mom

(15:12):
or get what he wanted, manipulate his mom, right, and
it had just been the two of them. And of
course this new stepfather is not going to stand for this.
Johnny's more of a father figure. He's stern, He's got
you know, structure. There's gonna be rules followed in this household.
You're not gonna get in your mom's face, You're not
going to physically abuse your mom, You're not gonna talk

(15:32):
shit to your mom. So of course this boy is
not going to like this man in his home telling
him these things, because he's spent his whole life doing
what he wants to do.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, all this time, he's had no structure or you know,
kind of being put put in his place, if you will.
And then all of a sudden you have someone who
has a completely different idea of how children she should act.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, Johnny's not gonna let him rule the roost anymore,
and basically tells him like, you're not gonna be a
little shit under my roof. So a hatred blossomed pretty
quickly between the two of them, especially from John really
resented his stepfather did not care for him. Around the
age of thirteen, John starts drinking alcohol. He even shows

(16:23):
up to school a few.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Times drunk at thirteen.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
At thirteen, damn, I remember girls coming to middle school
in like the seventh grade, so would probably be around
this age drunk in the morning. Really, I remember these
girls drinking vanilla flavoring because it had alcohol in it.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Oh yeah, did it make him tipsy? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
I just thought it was stupid. They smelled good, yeah,
because I was like, Eh, vanilla flavoring, that's gross.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
I'm not gonna get you hit it is.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
John doesn't shower very often, and he's smells. Other kids
bully him for being the gross smelly kid. A neighbor
recalled that his nickname was turd Boy because of the odor.
He smelled like shit.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Well, I mean that's kind of tricky. It's like kids
can be mean, but I mean as adults, we talk
about the person at work that smells right amongst ourselves.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Look, nobody wants to be around a smelly person.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
No, it's true.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Saturday, we went to a punk flea market and the
minute we walked in, I was like, Oh, the stench
hits me. Because anytime you're in a space like that,
a con festival market of some sort. Lord, you're always
gonna encounter body odor smells. And I don't know what
it is, but there's certain people who refuse to take

(17:57):
showers and apparently don't buy the odorant. And I know it,
soap and water is free.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
I've known people that have sure issues with hygiene. They
for you have very strong bo things like that.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
But dude, this is one thing to have strong bo dyling,
and it is another to smell like a fucking trash
dumpster because you have not washed your ass in a week.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Well no, but I was gonna I was gonna say
if I was one of those persons, I would shower
all the time. I would be fresh. I would, you know,
I would use products to try to help me manage this.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Smell, advanced clinical deodorant.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
But when you smell like this oniony, sweaty onion smell
that has nothing but but dussy, booty, dick and pussy, right,
and it is it is gross. And there's no way
I could walk around like that. Let alone go into

(18:55):
a top top top confine.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Right, I mean, if your armpits smell like a combination
of rotten feet and hot dog chili in a can,
you need to do something with yourself.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Ew All right, let's move on. So he's a third boy.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
He's third boy. He does not have the best hygiene.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
I just don't know how you do it. I really don't,
because I would be so itchy if I did not shower.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, okay. John begins his freshman year at high school
and he's off to a bad start. If high school
was any kind of opportunity for John to change his
ways or maybe try to focus more on academics, he
wasn't having it. He fails the ninth grade in his
order to repeat it. So by nineteen ninety five, John
is a seventeen year old freshman and he does not

(19:46):
want to be a freshman again.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, but I mean it's like you don't. It's not
bothering you enough to take your academics at least seriously
enough to pass right, Because pass I seen squeaking by.
It really does not take a ton of effort. Now,
is it. Does he have some kind of learning disabilities

(20:09):
undiagnosed or is it he truly just doesn't give a
damn to this point where he's not showing up, he's
not doing any work, not turning anything in. I mean,
it's I don't understand why you do that.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I will leave those questions to the experts, Dylan, I
do not know he drops out instead of barely passing by,
He's just like, yah, fuck it, I'm gonna quit school.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
So he drops out as freshman year and drives home
at seventeen.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
He would later tell doctors that it was around his
freshman year that he started experiencing quote phobia around people. Okay,
By his early teens, John traded in his blond locks
for shaved head. He abandoned the all American boy look
of his childhood. Or I guess what you would say

(21:02):
is a more alternative style. I'm not really sure what
you would call it? Kind of crust punk.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, he's crusty. He's a crusty punk.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Maybe kind of goth, kind of crust punk.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
He he grows out his hair, it starts to dread up.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
I'm sure it does, right, because that's what happens when
you don't wash your hair.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
According to his mom, he starts hanging out with quote
the wrong crowd. Friends describe John as being suicidal. He
would often mention his biological father and say things like
he doesn't want me. He would talk about Kurt Cobain's suicide,
how he would use a gun to take himself out,
or have other ideations about slitting his wrists, and would

(21:47):
say things like, do you know how fast you bleed
out if you switch your wrists to friends?

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Or you could just marry Courtney Cox. Do you mean
not friends, not Courtney Cox, Courtney Love.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, those jokes, don't like when you don't know what
you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
He could just married Courtney Loves. She'll take care of it.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, great joke telling.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Now, the excessive absences from school ended, like I said,
when he dropped out completely. And that's when John started
selling drugs to earn money. He began tattooing his face, neck, body,
and he kind of re emerges as a self proclaimed warlock,
although at the time he was just telling people, I'm
a male witch. Oh, because you know he's really educated

(22:31):
on being a male witch.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Well, no, I like how he's because he knows if
he says warlock, people are gonna bleck what's that? So
he's just leading with it. A male witch, I'm a wizard,
I'm the warlock.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
John is diagnosed as schizophrenic and agoraphobic by doctors. His
mother tried to get him help, but she says she
couldn't afford to do a lot of it on her
own because by now she's a single mom. We all
know that there's mental health care desert in our country,
crisis happening. A lot of people need psychiatric help.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
It's true.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
It's really hard for people to get in to see doctors, therapists, psychiatrists.
There's no like like impatient treatment programs, or at least
not enough.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Well, the programs aren't comprehensive enough, right, because I've seen
people really need help.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, that's the thing. People who need the most help
typically don't get it. For one reason or another, whether
it's like insurance finances, just a lack of availability.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
It's all those things mixed together. And it really is
a bad situation. And in a sad situation when you
see someone and I do think I think he has issues.
I think John had definitely does have some issues. Right.
He's having a lot of trouble, a lot of social
issue troubles with his peers during how's you know, he's

(23:56):
just now left high school. But all that time, it
is such an awkward and weird time for anyone, even
under the best of circumstances. And if you have this
other stuff going on, I mean, it can really be a.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Tough time, right, right, And so not only is John
a teenage alcoholic, but he starts abusing animals during this time.
He's torturing them actually, and we all know that's not
uncommon in psychopaths.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Oh it's not. And I think his whole I'm the dirty,
you know, dirt bag kind of whatever guy. I think
that might be a defense mechanism of sorts.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
I think it also is a sign of mental illness.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
And yeah, that too.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Now. The home on knob Hill Drive is a nice
two story brick home, with a well like maintained yard.
Neighbors such as Stephanie Sidel, recalled that the house was
kept meticulously clean by Cynthia. Johnny the stepfather, you know,
did all the yard work. It always looked really nice
by all accounts. Cynthia was a good housekeeper, the home

(24:55):
was well organized, spotless, and it just blends in lessly
with the rest of the neighborhood. So by the late nineties,
Johnny and Cynthia divorce, he moves out. They're no longer
happy couple, so Cynthia and her son remained behind at
the twenty seven to forty nine knob Hill Road residence.

(25:19):
It is also said that john really encouraged his mother
to like end things with the stepfather, and it's kind
of like the driving factor behind there split.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
He's never liked the guy and doesn't sound like he's
warmed up over the years.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right, Like, well, it's you know, it's near him, and
of course my mom's choosing her son, which is a
very strange ultimatum to give your mother. There's something kind
of like twisted about that, I guess, especially when there's
like not really a solid reason for it.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Well yeah, well, like.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
You know, your Stepdad's not like touching it, tickling your
buttthole in the closet or something like that.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
No, no, he's not. It doesn't sound like he's been
touched by stepdad. And it sounds like he just wants
to go back to it just being him and his mom. Yeah,
because he prefers it that way.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
And of course now we've got Johnny's dropped out of school.
He's selling drugs. He's essentially a grown man. He can't
be bothered to pay bills though, So Cynthia is keeping
up her adult son. He's just a big mooch, Dylan.
She's buying him cigarettes, She's buying all the food, providing
him with alcohol. John likes to party, so she's buying
him like a case of beer every day.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
There's no way, there's no way I'm going to keep
up my adult child, let alone one with all these vices.
I mean shit, I can barely points in my life.
I could barely afford my own vices. Right. He always
hit me up for a pack of smokes and some beer.
Hell no, no, there's no way you're at least going

(26:51):
to work part time and pay for your beer and cigarette.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
I mean when my daughter wanted Starbucks every day. I
was like, well, you know, there's a part time job
down the street just waiting for Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Well, it says one thing. I'll do whatever for my
kids when they were growing up. But once they get older,
and if there's this expectation that they're always going to
get their way, they're always going to have spending money, Yeah,
get to do what they want.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Kids get older, they have more expensive tastes and more
expensive needs.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
You're not kids anymore, right.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
And instead of you know, being happy with the forty
dollars pair of Nikes from off the rack at the
shoe store, they want the two hundred dollars pair of
custom Jordan's or something. Right, And by the time you're sixteen,
seventeen years old. I mean maybe some parents don't agree
with me, but I think a kid, it's fine for
a kid to have a part time job or even
just a summer job, but it teaches them some responsibility.

(27:48):
And also, if you want these nice, expensive things, you're
gonna have to do something to earn it, right. I mean,
I'm just not going to hand you money like an
atm every time you want to buy something or you
go out with your.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Friends, no, no, And I think that it builds. It
builds good uh life building skills, good adult skills for kids.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Now.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
I know some parents are like, oh, now you need
to help me with all these bills. I'm not gonna
say I'm.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Not gonna make my kids like pay the light bill
or anything.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
No, but I don't think there's anything wrong with picking
a very small bill, or you're gonna pay for your
own cell phone, or if you want to, you know,
pay the internet, just to teach them about.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Well, one thing that I did. I don't really expect
my kids to pay bills. But when my daughter was older,
you know, on the verge of like finishing up high
school and whatnot, and she wanted to get a new
phone her her the phone was fine, but you know,
she wants this fancy new phone, you know, like fifteen
hundred dollars phone or whatever. I said, Okay, well, if

(28:53):
you want this phone, then you need to pay for
the phone. So every month when we get the phone bill,
your phone's thirty dollars a month, you need to give
me thirty dollars a month toward this phone.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Right.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
And it wasn't making her pay like the actual cell
phone you know.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
She's paying the extra over call, the extra.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
For this brand new phone. And I really didn't see
anything wrong with that.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
No, there's no It teaches. It teaches young people that
you got a little skin in the game, right, even
if a small thing like that, Hey, it happens every month,
you need to think about it, you need to remember, right.
I mean, I think these are skills that are helpful
to young people.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
I agree. I mean, I really don't see anything wrong
with expecting your child to help out with something like
their car insurance. You know, when you get a new driver,
like a sixteen year old kid behind the wheel, that
jacks up your insurance costs a lot.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Well, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Not everybody can afford that extra four or five hundred
dollars a month tacked onto their insurance. So I don't
see anything wrong with the parents saying, well, you need
to get a part time job and like, help me
pay a little bit on this cost of your Insuran
runts or whatever.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Well, they're moving into adulthood and they need to have
these minor skills juggling or thinking about bills and stuff.
Like I said, some people, in my opinion, go overboard.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I mean, if you can afford to just you know,
throw money at your kids. They never have an expectation
to work.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Well, I mean that's great.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
All they need to do is go to school and
play golf for be on the cheerleading squad or whatever.
I mean, good for you, But I think a lot
of us out there can't really afford for our kids
to just live some lavish lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Well, now, that's good. Good for you, and people do
have different income brackets certainly, but I do think you're
missing opportunities of teaching your child a little bit of independence.
And you know, do you want to be solving issues
for them when they're thirty thirty five? You know what
I mean, you'll still.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Have that forty five year old liman in your well.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
I think you see these people and they'll come, they'll
get a traffic ticket and have to go to traffic court,
which is not the end of the world. It happens
to everybody. But they got to bring their mom or
dad with them. That's when they're all quite older, you
know what I mean. You see this sometimes and I
think it's weird. But I didn't grow up like that,
I guess.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, I definitely didn't. I was not coddled in that way.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
No, I was, No, I was.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
You know, it's basically what I'm getting at here is
that John is on a downward spiral. He has no education,
no plans for the future, is living off his mommy.
I mean, honestly, that's just embarrassing. If you're an adult,
able bodied adult, and you're living at home motioning off
your mom well, it is and it's kind of gross.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
After your parents have raised you up into adulthood, you know,
it's time for them to get a break, right. That's
when parents should be able to do more of what
they want. They'll, you know, their financial responsibility to their
children should lessen in my life, so they have more
of their own money to, you know, like I said,
do things they would like to do. And that's that's

(32:06):
how the cycle is supposed to work.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
When the events unfold on September eleventh, two thousand and one,
the world as we know it, I mean, it was
basically it a standstill. I think a lot of us
recall the exact moment when we saw planes hitting towers,
even though jet fuel doesn't really melt still.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Anyway, Wait, what towers are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, so in a small town like Clemens, North Carolina.
You can best believe people were shocked to see this
on television. That's when John decides he's gonna start dressing
like a Jehattist.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
So after nine to eleven, he starts heading out dressed
in a turban and other clothing that could be associated
with you know, like Arabic people.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
That makes total sense.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
We're wearing like Jehattist masks and stuff.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
He's like a shock jog, right, that's what he's like.
He like to shock people.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah, and he's really hoping that he stresses people out
when he dresses like this and goes out to Walmart
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Okay, so you get people like this, and I think
that stuff like this is attention seeking behavior, right, and
you know, they think they're edgy, they think they're like
freaking people out, but really a lot of times people
are just like what the hell, you know, just kind
of staring at you, like, what the hell are you doing?

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Right? He wants the people of Clemens to like believe
he's a terrorist, okay, blue white, blonde terrorist. In two
thousand and two, John changes his name to Puzuzu Algarad.
It was during a visit to his father's hometown in California,
and I've heard that changing your name is easier there.

(33:50):
I know in North Carolina it's like a whole process.
You have to go through courts and like you have
to post that you want your name change, and then.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Like see if anybody objects.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, I mean it's like a whole thing.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
You have to post the new name and everything like that.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, I think, so, oh that's cool. It was like that.
So I don't know. I guess maybe some states all
you have to do is just go say like, hey,
I want to change my name, and they're.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Like, okay, change my name to winger boy.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Well you can change your name to winger boy. So
he changes his name to Pazuzu. Again, I mean, are
we to assume he's an exorcist fan. Pazuzu is a
reference to a Mesopotamium demon. Adopting this demonic persona Pazuzu
further changes his appearance. He files his teeth down into
sharp points.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Oh my gosh, he's.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Already covered himself at a number of what I would
call prison.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Tattoos high quality.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
They're pretty shitty tattoos. Yeah, they're you know, like, I
don't know, if he did them at home, or he
lets some person off the street come over and tattoo him, like, hey,
I've got a machine, you want to dry this out,
But he's got a lot of shitty tattoos. Pazuzu was
still not practicing the best hygiene habits. He will later
tell a psychiatrist that he only bathes once a year.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
His friends call him Pupoo Poo.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Pazzusu also never brushes his teeth. There were rumors that
he had split his tongue to mimic a snake. Others
say that's not true, so I'm not really sure if
he had the split tongue or not.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Gosha so he's he's doing the low level body mods allegedly,
but it sounds like he's probably doing like the cheap
version at home version. Yeah, Like he can't even afford
to go somewhere and get these things.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
He can't even get the TMU version.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
No, No, he's getting the Clemens version version.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
It was as if Pazuzu was willing to do anything
that would make himself seem scary or evil to people
in town, like he just really wanted to freak people out.
He has a gigantic Satan tattoo across his forearm.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
It is spelled correctly, it is.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
I would given props for that. Also, Pazuzu has started
using myth, which we all know makes everything work out
like extra special for you. It's always a great idea
to throw in some myth into a situation.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Well really, uh gosh, what's the right word I'm looking for.
It really improves a person's personality, right, it makes them
the life of the party, especially.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
When they're struggling with a mental illness. Yeah. Yeah, Pazuzu
would make claims that he could control the weather like
the Assyrian god Pazuzu. He also started this new religion
which kind of mixed Lusiffarian beliefs and like theistic Satanism

(36:40):
with Islam, which makes no sense to me.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
But what ever, oh damn okay.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Right, Well, you know, forever he was just like a Satanist.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Because I've never heard of an Islamic as Satanist.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
But then, you know, I guess after the shock of
being like a you know, a leve Satanist just wasn't
enough anymore. He needs to step up his game. Yeah,
well with this religion, I mean he feels like he
has to make some animal sacrifices, blood sacrifices. He starts

(37:12):
drinking blood, animal blood and sometimes practicing like a blood
letting with others where they drink each other's blood. It's
very sanguinistic, right. Others have described this religion as more
of like a Sumerian religion, and that there was some

(37:33):
kind of monthly moon sacrifice that he started practicing.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
You know, with everything that you're describing, poor personal hygiene
really doesn't seem like it's going to help this situation,
because I feel like you should be cleaning up a
lot if you're doing blood sacrifices and you're like handling
dead animals.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
See, Pauzuzu does not agree with you, Dylan, because he
thinks that by nash showering, you're protecting your body from
infection and disease. You've got like natural defenses. And when
you're shower, you're watching, you're watching all that away.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Oh is that how some people think?

Speaker 2 (38:13):
You think? That's what he thinks.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Now, I imagine this is a good way to get
like mites, you know what I mean. I've always been,
you know, scared to death of messing with like dead
birds and stuff because I've always heard you could get mites.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Okay, yeah, I'm just saying like mites.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
You can't see them random mites, Yeah, just a bird mites,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
So along with like multiple Satanic tattoos. I mean he's
got stuff like six six sicks tattooed on his body.
He's got the big Satan tattoo images of demons. He
also has a Nazi tattoo.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Well, I was wondering if he was to leave that out,
that symbolism, but no, he needed it because it's almost
like he'll do something and then people are just like
at first like oh God, and then they're just kind
of like, oh, and there's that guy, and it's like
he has to keep one uping the shock value, right,
has to keep adding stuff.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Right. Around two thousand and six, Pazuzu begins treatment for
his mental health issues and substance abuse problems. During this time,
he's prescribed Zoloft, but he didn't continue with the medication
because he would say it made him feel like a
zombie as opposed to meth, which made him feel like
a prom queen.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Over a period of time, Pazuzu manages to turn his
mother's nice home into a quote house of horrors. Cynthia
was aware that her son was conducting dark rituals, which
included animal sacrifice. She didn't like it, but she did
nothing to stop him. Although Pazuzu desperately wanted to be
an outcast and make people afraid of him, he also

(39:57):
has like a happening friend group. Oh really he also Yeah,
he has this sort of Manson like following of people.
They call themselves the family. But really what this is, Dylan,
is it's a bunch of drug addicts who were hanging
out and partying with them.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Right.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
There's a documentary that was one of our resources for
this case, The Devil, The.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Devil, you know the Devil you smelled.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Right, Yeah, it's a Vice documentary. It's like a multi
part series on this case. And I would say it's
not the best documentary because I think it's like five
percent about Puzuzu and his crimes, and then like the
other ninety five percent is like these people who hung
out with him that are addicts, heroin addicts, just complaining

(40:49):
about their life and like their shitty choices, right, yeah, Like,
oh I hit a man and now he's a paraplegic.
But poor me, I can't get an of Heroin today
stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, I watched a little bit of that with you,
and it does seem to be kind of like that.
But you know, I'm kind of surprised, but I think
it's maybe something his mom's always done. So her home
goes from when she had a husband, a husband that
a nice home, you know, meticulous. You know when someone

(41:22):
describes a home as meticulously clean, that is you know,
that's next level clean, right, everything's always in order, everything's perfect,
and that takes a lot of work and effort to
keep a home like that.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, it would be nice to have a home like that,
but I'm married to a man who thinks it's okay
to just throw his belt down wherever he takes it off.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Right, But at least I do wash my ass. But
then she goes from that, you know, her husband's out
of the picture and it's just her and her son
to letting her son do whatever he wants. And I
have to say, the state of this home in the end,
when after all these crimes come out out and the
police do walk throughs and stuff, mind boggling, mind boggling.

(42:06):
How disgusting. It is.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, I mean it's a property that should be condemned.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
They literally do. I'm pretty sure they rit the house down,
but it is to the point of it's like hoarders.
It's on the level of the worst hoarders.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
We're gonna get into that, but yeah, I just don't trash, feces,
graffiti on the wall, my childish shit, it's just nasty.
There's like an altar.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Room, but it looked like a trap. I mean it
didn't even look like an altar anything to me. It
looked like where you fling open a door and just
fling trash in there.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
And I just don't get grown as people doing a
house like that, like it's something like twelve year olds
would do. No, not even twelve years old.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Well, Dylan, I think you're forgetting there's a deeply disturbed
person who suffers from mental illness and is not being
treated properly. And he's also, i mean, for lack of
a better word, he's a drunk junkie. I mean, right,
this is what addicts do. They don't mind to live
in squalor.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
We know, I'm saying, And even being in a friend
group and going in a hand.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
That's the thing that kills me. How the fuck you
go hang out you because you gotta be high as hell,
You gotta be on heroin or meth or completely like
fucked out of your mind to go sit in this
house that has literal shit in the floor.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
And want to hang out there.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
And want to hang out there, and it smells horrible.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
You can smell this house through the TV.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
We're just gonna call it the toilet house. Okay, So
there were people willing to hang out with Pazzuzu. As
I said in an interview with Vice Nate Anderson, a
form a former friend described Pazzuzu as having a twisted
kind of charisma, like he wasn't everyone's cup of tea,
but to those who were misfits, outcasts kind of living

(43:54):
in like the fringes of society, uh, he was cool
because a lot of these folks, I guess, kind of
have their own darkness, whether that's addiction or they have
their own like mental illness or whatever trauma, and then
they see him as like this dark person, they kind
of gravitate to him because it seems kind of cool

(44:17):
and whatever. Right, I mean, I don't understand that, but no, I.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Don't, but I think it is what you're described.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I also think that you know, when you get drug
addicts and there's a house where you can go and
party and use drugs and there's no limits to what
you can do there, you're probably going to go hang
out there, right, not maybe not because you like the homeowner,
but just because you know it's a place to go
shoot up.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Well, no, you see, and it's a situation like this.
The drugs are really the center of this friend group
because what you would find if one a person wants
to get clean or something like that, all of a sudden,
all these people who were your quote unquote friends, they're
nowhere to be seen. They're not there to help you.
They're not in any way real friends. Like they just

(45:08):
hang out and do drugs together. That's the main thing.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Pazzuzu's home was always open for a party. People liked
hanging around the house because there was boos and drugs.
As I mentioned, I mean, it was just a free
for all. There were no rules, there was no judgment.
Everybody could party. You could just hang out. Oddly enough,
despite his terrible hygiene, Pazuzu was quite popular with women.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
He had a number of girlfriends, a number of women
who would sleep with him, hook up with him, wanted
to have sex with him.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
I can taste you, Pazuzu.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Hey, devil man, wyn't you dick me down.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
I knew you was here. I smelled you for I
seen you.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Like I said. He had a lot of girlfriends. He
even had women who described themselves as his fiances.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
He called it the old Sticky Dick. That was a
movie known for.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
That literally makes me want to vomit now. One of
those women was Amber Birch. She was from rock Hill,
South Carolina, and had just graduated from high school when
she met Pazzuzu. Now I'm not really sure how this
meeting happened.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
I'm gonna guess Ambro was trying to piss her dad off,
and she's like, I'm dating a guy named Pazzuzu.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Amber's life became unrecognizable to friends and family. She grew distant.
Amber followed Pazuzu like anything he wanted or said. You know,
she's part of this religion. He starts referring to her
as his wife. She dreads her hair, she shaves her eyebrows,
files down her teeth, she doesn't shower anymore and starts

(46:51):
practicing whatever bastardized version of Satanism, Islam, Sumerian devil worship,
whatever uh that's going on up at knob Hill.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Tew much. You better not wash my love off of you, girl.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Like now you got two stanky.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Motherfuckers and their own knob Hill. I mean, can we
think about that for a second.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Wash your knob? Eh? I feel like that knob's got
an infection?

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Is your your knob swoow up?

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Why has your knob got dirt on it? Is there
a mushroom growing on your knob?

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Why's my knob hurt?

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Why is there mold on my knob? Amber's best friend,
Katie Wagner Davis, who also appears in that Vice documentary,
shared that Amber and Pazzuzu would cut each other and
then like, drink do a blood exchange? Drink blood? Oh
my god, so edgy. Although Katie thought this was all
whacked out, she agreed to finally meet Pazzuzu in late

(47:50):
two thousand and nine. Katie arrived at the knob Hill
home and was in dismay at the condition of this place.
As soon as she walked in the door. She described
being quote punched in the face by a horrible smell.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Damn.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
When Katie told Pazuzu, like, bro, your house stinks like death,
He's like, well, that's the Boddy's in the boosement.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Oh man, whoa, he's so cute.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
I mean, honestly, the house like becomes its own character
in this story for real.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
I just I mean, and his mom's just setting up
in her room just like like like there's not a
fucking hoarder house all around her full of like dead shit.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Those glade plugins do they do wonders.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
She's just going around like a for Breeze commercial.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
She went to Back and Body and got some like
apple cinnamon scented oil.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
No, because even her room was basically normal, right, But
then the whole rest of the house, well.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
I mean, well it's more normal than the rest of
the house.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
But I mean that goes a show that.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
I mean, compared to the rest of the house, it
was like a fucking showroom.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, but that goes to show that she was literally
just letting him do all this to the rest of
the house. It's I just I don't know even our
self preservation. I just don't know how you do this.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
I you know, in this entire story, everybody wants to
talk about like Pazuzu, and I think we should be
talking about his fucking mom. Dude. I think she's got
some serious issues.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Well, I mean you're I think you've got a mixture
here of him having some real mental health problems untreated
for the most part. And one of these situations where
a kid grows up doing whatever the fuck they want,
never being told no, and what happens is they turn
into an adult who really starts bullying their parent to

(49:52):
where it's just easier for her probably to you know,
scurry away to her room and kind of just hide
out there and just stay away from him and let
him do whatever the hell he wants. And this is
what you end up with. I mean, this can be
what you end up with, or at the very least,
like a braddy adult who just doesn't think they have

(50:13):
to listen to rules or anything. They don't have to
pay attention to them.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
The house would, as I mentioned, become almost like its
own character in this story. While Pazuzu reigned as demon king,
the house fell into disarray. No one took out the trash.
It was hoarded with trash. As I mentioned, there's urine
feces throughout. I mean, nobody's cleaning, No one's washing the dishes,
and we know at least two members of the household

(50:38):
are not showering, right. Yeah. Friends like the fact that
there were no rules in this house. Like, for example,
people said, well, if you wanted to go take a
piss on the carpet, nobody's gonna stop you. If you
started destroying the how or the couch, nobody's gonna do
anything about it. You can throw beer bottles at the wall,
draw graffiti on the walls, and all the while Cynthia,

(51:01):
as you mentioned, is just still residing in this turd
of a house hold up in her bedroom while all
this chaos is happening.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Sounds literally going to make a joke like how man,
I like going over here and hanging out because you
can just piss wherever you want. But that's like literally true.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Pazuza's friends are using math, heroin and other drugs. They're drinking,
they party, they fuck, they fight, they take a shit
in the bed if they feel like it. Just do
whatever you want, man.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
We call that the old amber Herd.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
You can take a amber Herd house if you want.
To absolutely now, as long as everyone stayed out of
Cynthia's room, she didn't seem to care what was going on.
And again, this is just so wild to me, considering
that the house smells like a rotting corpse turd, right,
Pazuza would often entertain visitors by killing rabbits and birds.

(51:54):
He would cut himself then drink down the blood. And
let's be honest, you'd need to be out of your
fuck mind on drugs to be able to tolerate this
awful house and just sitting around watching somebody kill animals
and drink their blood or drink their own blood. I mean.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
I've been and done some I've been to some weird places.
I've seen some things, Dylan, I've done some things, but
I've never set around watching my friend drink his or
her blood. And I've never watched people killing animals for fun.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
No, this is this goes beyond being high as hell,
because and I'm not necessarily done what they're doing. But
I've partied. I've partied down in my life. I've hung
out in some places, some of them might not been
the cleanest places, but nothing to this degree. I could
not stay in a place like that, and it don't
matter how high or whatever I was or drunk or

(52:53):
any of that shit.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Maybe you just weren't high on the right substance dealing.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Nah. This is people that are trying so hard to
be like almost a gg Allen level of shocking and
uh subverb subversive.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah, I don't know, just a new level of depravity.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Well they're yeah, I mean they're just because they describe
what they're seeing and doing it this place to other people,
and I'm sure the other people are like, what the fuck,
And it's like, I don't know, it's almost like they're
getting off on the fact of just being around this
insanity because I can't I imagine some of these people were
just into a certain aesthetic and you know, people go

(53:39):
through phases or growing up when you know, you maybe
dress a certain way or hang out with some wild people.
They couldn't have all been like mentally ill and crazy
and stuff like that. I don't know. This is very
interesting in a way that people would actually come around

(53:59):
and hang around this guy when he's doing this kind
of stuff.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Some friends say Pezuzu was truly schizophrenic. His behavior would
change like depending on who he was around, Like one
moment he'd be really cool, and then it's like somebody
would walk in a room and he'd get really keyed
up and just change completely okay, almost like hallucinating or
checking out reality. He would just start acting outrageous, which

(54:30):
a lot of people were like, Okay, he does this
shit for shock value. But other people are like, nah,
I think that he's I think he's got some issues.
And then others are saying, you know, like he was
doing it for shock value and that he was a
good actor and really knew how to play up, like
like maybe he was kind of faking schizophrenia right, that

(54:51):
he knew how to play the part and act.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (54:57):
I don't know, bro, I think it's hard to say.
I mean, I honestly think that he really did have
something going on, because this is just this is so
abnormal and like far out there right, the obsession with
you know, demons and devil worship and thinking you get
in power from sacrificing birds and rabbits. I mean that

(55:19):
just all seems a little nutty to me or like
not like that. Even if you're like an edgy person,
like you're probably not going to take it that far.
Coupled with like the not showering and the willingness to
live and this kind of squalor and be so nasty.
I mean, to me, that's like a sign of something.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
A right, right, I think it's a mixture of both
of all the things he likes to shock people. He
likes to you know, gets to some kind of uh,
it makes him feel, i don't know, like the big
man on campus, maybe to be the weirdest of the
weird boy.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Well, I mean he did have like agoraphobia, Like he
did have a crippling anxiety when it came to leaving
the house. I mean, he was essentially like a prisoner
in this house.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
So he was a prisoner to his.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Social anxiety and agoraphobia. Like he didn't go play I
mean for the most part, like he's just stayed at home.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
So everybody came there to see him.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah, I mean it wasn't like he was out and
about in the community really.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
So yeah, it sounds like he definitely had some true
issues and he also liked to be in like the
weird guy or whatever.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
So we gotta talk some more about this. I mean,
in addition to like bodily fluids being all over the house.
There's empty beer bottles, which stink. I mean, all my
bartenders know what.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
I'm talking about, stale beer, but like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Even if you have a gathering and people leave solo
cups around or beer bottles or cans, and you get
up the next morning and there's just twenty or thirty
of those in your house, it stinks already. Right.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
There was like blood smeared on the walls, needles, garbage.
The basement was fucking horrible. I mean there's really no
telling what all was buried underneath these trash heaps.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
I don't know how these people weren't just infected constantly.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Maybe he really did build up, is me.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
I'm saying, maybe he's onto something.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
The walls, as I mentioned, were done with graffiti, satanic posters, symbols.
One reporter described it as like hot topic Satanism that
he had the house decorated with like little incense burners
from Spencer's and like little demonic statues and grim reapers
that you would get it like some novelty, you know,
touristy spot.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
See that's the thing about it, just seeing them, you know,
video the house and going through it is it's one
part what the fuck and two parts someone trying way
too hard to be cool.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
It put up this no trispassing stone on the kitchen window.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
And it's also very uh, has a very childish element.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
To the whole, like the front doors painted black and
has like some Halloween skull decorations hanging up.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Yeah, and it's just it's like the graffiti and stuff
like you're going to color on the walls. It's like,
what are you doing? You know?

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Cynthia and Pazzuzu also lived in the house with five dogs,
so we got five dogs in the mix.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
See, these are the first people I feel.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Bad for us say that in the dishwasher. Pazuzu kept weapons.
He would often tell friends and newbies to the pad
about how he would kill homeless people for sport. Maybe
get out a bonnet or whatever. Okay, this is the
sword I stabbed him with. He would brag about shooting
and stabbing people. Most of his friends didn't believe him. Again,

(58:44):
he's the edge lord. Everything's for shock value. He's high,
he's drunk, he's rambling, just trying to get a rise
out of people. And we have seen this kind of
thing before Dylan, when somebody makes a joke or says
something like, yeah, I've got a body buried my basement,
most people are just.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Like ha ha ha, right right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
A woman named Bianca had lived with Pazzuzu for a month,
and during this time she overheard him discussing murders and cannibalism.
Pazuzu boasted that he'd killed two sex workers and eaten
their flesh. To dispose of the bodies, he burned them
in the backyard in a fire pit. Bianca just assumed
he was lying.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Well, yeah, because that's that's that's so outlandish.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
And that's the thing with Pazuzu. These rumors are out there,
but they're just not taken seriously because they are kind
of so outrageous.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Well yeah, and he's always saying something right.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Sometimes, Pazuzu would threaten friends. A guy in Crazy Dave
told Weis that he had once been threatened with a knife.
Pazuzu told him, quote, you'll help me dig this hole.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Or I'm going to kill you, Crazy Dave.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Another lady named Sylvia LaBelle, who considered herself to be,
you know, like a Christian. Her father was a minister
she was somehow lured into Pazzuzu's home in two thousand
and nine. I don't know how you could get lord
into this toilet house, but she goes inside by turd Boy,
and she said that Pazuzu forced her to watch this

(01:00:22):
highly disturbing homemade porno video and that he told her
he was the gate keeper to Hell. I wonder if
he asked, like, are you the key moster, I'm the
good keeper. Pazuzu had mostly steered clear of the law
even with this toilet house. In two thousand and eight,
he was convicted of larceny. Pazuzu received a year of probation.

(01:00:45):
In twenty ten, he was convicted on a misdemeanor assault
charge for strangling his mother. He had placed her in
a choke hold so tightly that she passed out. Then
Amber joined in and was like slapping Cynthia. And they
are at actually several cases of domestic violence where Cynthia
is being attacked by her son or by Amber, and

(01:01:09):
she calls the police. She'll file charges and then not
show up to court, drop the charges or cause police,
but then doesn't want to follow through with having them
removed from the house.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Or whatever, and then there's nothing the authorities can do
in a situation like that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
On August third of two thousand and nine, a woman
named Karina Billings met with law enforcement after hearing a
disturbing story. Her father, Alan Billings, made a startling confession.
One night, she said two weeks earlier. It was around
July seventeenth. Her father had been visiting the knob Hill
home during this time. Pazuzu showed Billings a body in

(01:01:47):
the basement. The victim was hidden under a tarp. Pazuzu
explained that he had shot the victim ten times with
an assault rifle because quote, he was a snitch. The
victim had been dead for three days. Pazuzu referred to
the victim as, quote the fat motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Oh, we don't know his name. He's just calling him
a snitch and a fat motherfucker. Using chlorine and cat litter,
Pazuzu and Amber had attempted to cover up the smell
of decomposition. Pazuzu then dismembered the body and directed Alan
Billings to help him bury the remains. Law enforcement listened
to Tarina's story, but did little else. An officer was

(01:02:26):
sent out to the knob Hill home. He observed an
in ground swimming pool and several cats, which could account
for the chlorine and cat litter. Like nothing else is
really done this matter.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
I mean they got a pull in some cats.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
It's okay, yeah, I mean, just they don't want to
believe the story is real, right, it sounds so out there.
A few weeks later, on September twenty fourth of two
thousand and nine, Winston Salem Police Department received a tip
via their crime Stoppers line. The anonymous tipster said that
a man named Tazuzu with a t Tazuzu had killed

(01:03:02):
a tall, fat guy and buried him in the backyard
of the knob Hill home. The victim had been missing
for a month. But we don't have a victim's name.
All we have is that he.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Was a tall, fat guy killed by Tazuzu. Tazuzu which
not to be confused with Budzuzu.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Right, Egregious errors are being committed by law enforcement. I mean,
little effort has been done to connect these dots. They're
getting these calls, and yes they do seem twisted, but
a little bit of investigation. It's just very frustrating. All
they would have to do is kind of look into like,
oh wait, there are missing persons reports on some folks.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Yeah, look at this guy's description.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Fast follow up with us, right right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
But okay, so from their perspective, you got these people
who likely have you know, jackets, well their issues.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
Like they don't seem like credible witnesses. Now, Terina Billings,
she is a credible witness. She's got her shit together.
She's a professional, educated, very intelligent young woman, you know,
has her life in order. So when she goes to
law enforcement, you know, she's really expecting, well, they'll take
me seriously, right right, But even they even dismissed her.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Well, we've seen this time and again. You know, cops
just don't don't take these people seriously. They're not to
be bothered with it. And of course these are just accusations,
and they do have to have a certain amount of
probable calls to get search warrants. And I'm not going
to defend the cops in this situation, but you know,

(01:04:46):
I'm just trying to play Devil's advocate.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
I understand to a degree, see Pazuzu has infiltrated you.
Now you're the devil.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
I'm not washing my ass for the rest of the week.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Wow, big surprise.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Oh oh ay, spreading rumors on our podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
You do like to be lazy, so no.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
But I'll be clean and lazy. Why don't even have
time to be lazy? What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
You're in your pajama pants and it's four in the
aftress that's because I will worked all night, slept, woke
up now here we are podcasting. You woke up a
couple hours ago. Now Whinston Saylon police received another anonymous
email on February ninth of twenty ten. The email referenced
Pazzuzu having picked up a homeless man at a gas station.

(01:05:35):
The victim had been shot and buried in the backyard
at Pazzuzu's house.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Okay, so yet again, another strong accusation.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Another strong accusation. A year earlier, on February fifteenth of
two thousand and nine, a woman named Stacy Carter filed
a missing persons report on her ex partner, Joshua Wetzler.
According to Carter, she had spoken to a friend named
Alison Stitzer, who had recently attended a concert in Asheville,

(01:06:05):
North Carolina. So While Allison is at this concert, she
hears a rumor that Pazzuzu has killed Josh Wetsler. He
was then buried in the backyard of Pazzuzu's Clemens residence. Now,
when Stitzer contacts Pazuzu regarding the rumor, she asks about
Josh Wexler and he told her quote not to worry

(01:06:28):
about fat Josh anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Carter informed law enforcement that Wetsler was last seen on
June or in June of two thousand and eight. Sorry,
and at the time Wetsler was on probation. He had
recently lost custody of their son due to a lack
of running water or electricity at his home. Joshua suffered
from depression and abused drugs. Described as a hippie, Joshua

(01:06:54):
had been known to follow like the Grateful Dead and
hang out in the drug scene.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Right, and once people get to the point where their
utilities are cut off, you know, they don't have running water,
they only have lights. You're in You're in a very
late stage, a bad place as far as your addiction goes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Right, with no job, no money, and failure to keep
utilities paid, he was asked to move out by the landlord.
Joshua had a history of disappearing for extended periods of time,
but he usually kept in touch with his mother. She
lived in New York. He would call her despite his problems.
Carter said that Joshua was a great father to their
five year old son, and it was unusual for Joshua

(01:07:37):
to go like no contact with the child. Right, even
if he went on a binge or whatever, disappeared for
weeks at a time, he would still maintain contact with
their child with his mom.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
So now he's not been seen at all.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Right, Joshua's nineteen eighty nine Buick had been recovered from
an apartment complex parking lot near Brookline Street. This was
in Winston Salem on July twenty six of two thousand
and nine. So that's several months after he's reported missing.
I mean, that's almost a year, a year and a

(01:08:12):
month since he's last been seen.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
That's when his car's found, yeah, missing in.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
June of two thousand and eight. That's the last contact
anybody had with him. And they don't find this car
until July two thousand and nine.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
So I wonder how they handle the car when they
do discover it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
The car had been parked illegally. When police arrived, they
found the windows down, Key's in the ignition, there was
no sign of Joshua. Carter complains in the documentary The
Vice document docuseries that she was not contacted about the car,
even though she'd file this missing person's report. And just
to play devil's advocate, as you said before, Dylan.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
She's not his wife.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
She's not his wife, she's not his next of ken.
So the likelihood that police are gonna reach out.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
To you, an estranged girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Right and give you any information, it's it's probably not
going to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Well, no, how would they even know? You know what
I'm saying. How could they even reach out to you? Now?
Did she file the missing person's report?

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
She did in February?

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
Okay, well, I mean I guess I understand a bit
from her point of view, but yeah, I mean, yeah,
that's how it works. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
Well, yeah, I mean we know time and time again,
adult missing person cases are not taken seriously. Law enforcement
is not going to go to some great length to
find find a missing adult.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
No, No, we went over this last week, right and
that story and uh so, yeah, it's uh now when
they find his car, do they take it, they take
possession of it as evidence, or do they just have
it towed off to a yard.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
They just have it towed off to a yard.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
They don't think it's strange that it's been a year
since this guy was reported missing and then his car
is found abandoned somewhere, parked oddly, key of windows down,
keys in the ignition. Most people don't do that, and
they just they're just like, all right, cool. They don't

(01:10:15):
search it, they don't do a proper breakdown of the vehicle.
They don't have crime you know, forensics even take a
look at it. Even a homicide detective take a glance.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
I might no Winston Salem police officer don but maybe
they thought there was no evidence of a crime.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
They don't want to take the time and energy and
resources to investigate this car when the guy could pop up,
like in two days. I was staying at this apartment
the whole time, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Okay, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
I don't have these answers. Early February of twenty ten,
law enforcement were granted a search warrant for Pezuzu's home.
At the time, police had contacted an anthropology professor about
possibly using some ground penetrating radar equipment in the search.
Law enforcement was told they would need to put off

(01:11:10):
the search for several weeks in order to utilize this
equipment and have like the anthropologists come out help with
the you know, dig a search.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Now, you know, that's one of the one of the
latest advancements in technology that anthropologists actually use ground penetrating
radar because used to all they had was guesswork. You know,
when they were say, going over a site or something

(01:11:41):
they wanted to excavate, they just had to do it
painstakingly millimeters at a time. But yeah, this is a
big advancement in anthropoblem. Sorry, I was just listening to
a guy an anthropologists carry on about how this was
the biggest advancement in ground penetrating radar in the field
for many years, right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
Right, But feeling a sense of urgency in the matter,
law enforcement conducted the search without the equipment. They didn't
want to put off the search, Okay, for several weeks, right,
I understand where they're coming from. They brought in canaver
dogs to search the property, but the dogs didn't alert
due to the condition of the property. I mean, it's

(01:12:22):
littered with dead animals, garbage piles. It's likely they couldn't
smell anything else.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
The dog's like, look, the dog gets out of the
cars out, look, come here, let me talk to you, smoking.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
Like the dog gets out of the car and then
immediately just jumps back in the car, like, please take
me away.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
It's like, no, there's nothing good here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
I have very sensitive smell here. The search team found
no signs of foul play and did not locate a
body on the property. They didn't find any evidence of
a crime.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
But again, like, it's so such a strange scene the home,
and I'm going to assume the property's probably gross too.
Let's be honest at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
No, the property is totally gross, Like the out the
outdoor pool they have an ing ground pool is empty,
it's been vandalized, spray painted, just shit dumped in it,
piles of crap everywhere. I know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
It's just it's a hard place to do a proper search, really.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
And it just looks like dirt, like if there had
been grass back there. I don't know what happened to it. Damn.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
I bet the neighbors talk about this place.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
You know it, You know it. In twenty ten, a
murder put Pazuzu on law enforcements radar once again. The
body of thirty year old Joseph Chandler was found near
the Yadkin River at Donaha Park. This was on June seventh.
Chandler had been reported missing by his mother, Sheila. He
had only recently moved to the area. He was thirty

(01:13:55):
years old and legally blind. The victim had been shot
to death. Now Pazuzu frequented this location near the Yadkin River.
Supposedly it was a place where he did rituals, tortured
and killed animals. In October of twenty ten, about eight
months after they had failed to find anything at the

(01:14:19):
property the search, a man named Nicholas Rizzy was arrested
and charged with murder. Pazzuzu was also arrested and charged
with accessory after the fact of involuntary manslaughter because he
had allowed Rizzy to hide out at the Nasty House.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
So the first time they finally got a search warrant
in search of property, and now that that was in
the connection with Josh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Yes okay, or just the reports of there's a body bear.

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
Okay, The kind of anonymous reports.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Yeah, we don't really know it's Josh. They're just describing
him and remembers like a tall, fat guy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Okay, so it's not direct. It wasn't in direct connection
to Josh, me and mixing. Right, and so now he's
been linked or brought up in another murder by the
river at a place where he frequents.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Right, So let's get into this. Chandler's mother, Sheila, told
Weiss that she did not believe the murder was accidental. Quote,
he was chosen to be killed that night. She didn't
know how her son had come to meet Rizzi or Algarad.
Her son had walked to a convenience store and somehow
engaged in a conversation with these two men. Chandler was

(01:15:38):
invited for a ride. She's assuming he gets in the
car with Pazzuzu and this guy Rizzy. The three go
out to this park. While Pazuzu sat by the lake,
Rizzy pulls out a shotgun and tries to shoot it,
but it jammed.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
He goes back to the car to fetch another gun.
Of this Chandler guy, I mean, he's just hanging out.
He tries to light a cigarette and before he could
even get it lit, Rizzy shot Chandler in the head.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
Now is he aware that that's God just tried to
shoot him with a shotgun.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
I don't know, because again he's legally blind, so I'm
not really sure. I don't know the details. And nobody,
I mean, there really wasn't anybody there to tell us
that the.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
True truth, right, right, Okay, so maybe he didn't realize
what was happening.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
Apparently they did not call police and just left the scene.
But they're going to describe this as being an accident.
Sheila states, No, they murdered my son. She does not
any way believe this was an accident.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
I think I agree with Sheila.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Yeah, So Rizzie's arrested for shooting this man and Pezuza's
arrested as an accessory. He's ordered to Dorothea Dix Hospital
in Raleigh, North Carolina for a psychiatric evaluation. There, he's
diagnosed with anxiety, given some medication for that. Doctors affirm
the schizophrenia and agoraphobia diagnosis. The report stated that Pezuzu

(01:17:07):
had a long history of mental illness and psychotic symptoms.
The report also noted signs of a schizo typal, schizo
typal personality, schizotypal I don't know how to say that, sorry,
personality disorder, which again goes along with like, he's psychotic. Right,

(01:17:28):
he has symptoms of you know, he has psychosis. They
recommended further mental health treatment and substance abuse treatment. As
a shower well yeah, yeah, they note in the report
that he hasn't showered in a year. They recommend that,
you know, he needs substance abuse treatment, mental health treatment,

(01:17:48):
and that should be a mandatory part of whatever sentence
he's given.

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
See, here's the thing. You have someone who sounds like
he's got issues that are affecting him. Adversely, I'm sure
it's not fun. Two. I've often wondered what it would
be like. I guess Schizophrenia is always kind of fascinated
me and scared me at the same time, because there

(01:18:15):
are elements of it in my family.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
Well, I was gonna say you, it's not uncommon in
your family, right, I mean no, there have been no,
there's so several members of your family who have been diagnosed.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Yes, And as you look through the family history, especially
on the one side, my mother's side, of some very prevalent,
very significant mental health issues, and it seems, uh, how
scary that would be to have these episodes, these breaks

(01:18:48):
from reality and to think they're real. It's almost like
dreaming while you're awake.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
If apersonation, Yeah, the voices, Yeah, very unsettling and scary.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
But what's so tricky about it is you often hear
the case after case is the people that are having
these issues and then you try they try to force
them to get help. Is a lot of times they
will not continue. They will not They will get them
on a that's what happens. When they go to a hospital.
They'll get them medicated, and yes, a lot of the

(01:19:21):
medications are heavy. They they change you, They make you
feel weird, maybe not like yourself, often described as that.
But they won't continue. But it makes you stable, right,
it helps make you stable. But a lot of times
these people will quit the regiment of medicines and then

(01:19:44):
go right back into their these spirals of psychosis and
things like that. So it's really like it's like, what
do you even do in this situation to help to
truly help a person when it's almost like they don't
have the capacity to help themselves, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
Well, it's true. And then it gets tricky because a
lot of states like you can't just involuntarily commit a
loved one, No, And then there's always the argument about
you know, personal freedom and human rights and should you
be able to involuntarily commit a person who you know,

(01:20:23):
who's just out on the streets.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Like, definitely, yeah, and you can't. But at the same time,
you have people.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
Who are very sick, and you combine that with you know,
they've got schizophrenia, but they're also using methamphetamine or using heroin,
PCP whatever, fentanyl, and they're having these breaks from reality
and they can be dangerous, they can harm themselves or others,

(01:20:53):
and we're just told like, oh, well, we need to
just like let these people be. We'll do a little
hour reach, make sure they got some clean needles, and
that's it. They are free to roam around. And I
don't know, I find I mean, I get both sides
of the argument. And there was a point where I
very much felt like, oh, you know, we need to

(01:21:14):
do harm reduction and like help these folks. But I
also think, you know, at some point we have a
responsibility to society in general to you know, get these people,
help like by letting them be out on the streets
using drugs, hurting.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Themselves, possibly hurting other people.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
I mean, it's not good, you know. I think that's
cruel in itself, right, are letting these folks who are
incredibly mentally ill just be out there suffering.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
And I don't think sometimes I think they don't have
they can't consent to they can't I don't stick with
the program, they can't help themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
Well, that's the thing. I feel like a lot of
these people can't really consent to treatments or they refuse it.
But I don't think they are fully like, they don't
really have the capacity to make those decisions for themselves, right, So,
I mean it's a really tricky situation.

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
No, but it is so. And you're making the point
that I was the kind of the where I was
going with this. At what point do you say, Hey,
in the most compassionate way, we're going to force you
to get help. We're going to put you in this
place where you will be forced to take part of

(01:22:37):
the medicine and stuff, and we're also going to do
that to keep everyone else that's around you safe.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
Well, it keeps them safe.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
And it keeps them in a safer condraction.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
I have listened to interviews and watch documentaries. For example,
today I saw a documentary this young woman he's living
on the streets. She has a significant mental illness. You
can see her pacing around like kind of in a

(01:23:08):
you know, different world, if you will. And the guy
who's you know, making this documentary, he's talking about like
she he thinks she's been a victim of something, you know.
He's like, anytime like a male approaches her, she gets
really upset. And he's like, I think she's been trafficked
and that she's being harmed. And he's like, they pick
up the you know, oftentimes pick up these young women

(01:23:32):
who are homeless and who are experiencing like a mental
health issue or addiction, and they traffic them, right, And
he's like, I think she's been trafficked because she seems
really terrified of men. But she's just left to wander
around and we're told we're supposed to just like let
that be. And I in the end, I find that
to be very cruel.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
No, I think that's way more cruel.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
Than putting her in a safe place, in a safe
place with the hospital professional is being tended to and
she's getting help and treatment. Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
It's such a tough I mean, it's just really a
tough issue. I don't know, I don't know the answers.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
Well, I agree with you. The moral choice is maybe
what we're describing, even if it's hard to put into practice.
But I don't think just leaving that person to their
own devices on the street, in the grips of addiction,
or you know, all these ways they can be exploited.

(01:24:33):
I think that's a more in moral choice than forcing
them somewhere and just keeping them there.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
I agree, I really do. And I mean we're not
going to solve problems today. But I just think as
much money as we generate here in the United States,
as much money as we send overseas to help other people,
and we don't take care of our own citizens, Like,
why are we not investing into mental health care and rehabilitation.

(01:25:04):
We obviously have an addiction crisis right across America. We've
been having it, Homelessness has spiked. I mean, there's just
so many things that need to be addressed. Why are
we not spending money to build rehab places, mental health facilities,

(01:25:27):
hiring and training like the best people to aid these people,
instead of spending all this money on these nonprofits where
half the time that you've never seen an outreach worker.
You can, you know, talk to homeless people and say
when's the last time you saw an outreach worker, and
they're just like, hmmm. No, it's like the homeless industrial complex.

(01:25:51):
You have all these nonprofits and shit, and they just
keep making money off of it. So yeah, they don't
want to like solve the problem.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
No. Well, I think there's a lot of good, harded
people that work in that industry, but I think at
the heart of it is, uh, they're putting band aids
on a gaping wound. It's never gonna be it's never
go Look, if housing first and harm reduction, all these
things worked, we wouldn't have any homeless people or anybody

(01:26:17):
with problems.

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
We've spent billions.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
Right, it's not worthing. It's not working, clearly.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
I mean, it's kind of like worse now than it
has been, you know ever before. So throwing money at it,
however we're doing it right now, is not the answer.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
It's not because because if you take someone that like
we're describing, and you say hey, here's you a tiny home.
They can't take care of it. They can't take care
of themselves. They're gonna trash it. They're gonna, you know,
continue to have all these bad habits and stuff happening
and still opening themselves up to harm and exploitation and

(01:26:53):
all that stuff because they're not capable of taking care
of themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
There's a guy, Kevin Dalgren. He has with media accounts
and then we'll get back to our story. But he
has been like an outreach worker for years. He's helped
the homeless, he's worked with the homeless. Seems like a
pretty genuine guy, and now he has started sort of
documenting what's happening. He lives in Portland and just the

(01:27:17):
issues there.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
I've seen that guy and.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
He's like, look, you know, we're spending billions of dollars,
but things are getting worse. And I mean he's absolutely right,
you know. And he will point out, like here's a
lady sleeping on the sidewalk, and he's like, she was
given an apartment, Like she has an apartment, Like she
lives in this building. She's been given an apartment, but
she still comes out here and sleeps on the.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
Sidewalk, right. No, I've watched that guy's videos, and my
heart breaks for these people. And he's not your typical
I'm gonna go around and film these homeless, you know,
mental health patients.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
No, I mean, I think he's.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
Truly, truly compassionate.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
He like really wants attention to this matter.

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
Yeah, and my heart breaks for those poor, poor people
that are just left to right in those circumstances. There's
got to be another way.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
So this conversation that we've you know, taken this detour
dealing this side quest to discuss all these problems in
the world, brings us back to Pozuzu, because you know,
by the time this unfolded, he'd been in several mental
hospitals going back to childhood. He had not been employed
in several years. He was receiving Social Security disability because

(01:28:25):
of his problems with being nervous and paranoid. But like
it's evident he's not getting proper treatments and this is
someone who definitely needs to be treated. And even the
Dorothea Dix Hospitals like, okay, we'll evaluate him and then
we're like sending him out back out into the streets.

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
Yeah, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
That there's nobody here is trying to help, truly help
this man.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
Right, And if you're not going to help yourself, we're
going to help you. I mean that seems to be
the only course of action in some of these cases
in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:29:04):
Some ways, with this case, I see a system failure
because I feel this could have, in my brain been
this could have been prevented if he had early on
received proper treatment for his issues, right, and was receiving
proper treatment, he would not have gone down this path.

(01:29:30):
So I just see this whole thing is like there
were chances for you to for the state or whatever
to do something, and they just yeah, we're diagnosing him,
and then we're just sending him in all his way,
you know, like go have a nice life.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
How can you diagnose somebody with some of these heavy
things like schizophrenia and top this and that personality and
just be like all right, we'll see you later.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
Well, and you see this man and he hasn't showered,
and he's filed his teeth down, and he's covered in
these tattoos. And I mean, I have nothing against tattoos,
but I mean, come on, these are not these are
not works of arts. I mean they're shitty tach like
he looks he looks scary because he's got this like
shitty ink on his body. I mean, the guy looks
like a freak. Let's be for real with these filed

(01:30:14):
down teeth and shit, if.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
He did split his tongue at home.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
He smells like a turd and has not showered and
doesn't brush his teeth, and is telling you he worships
some Assyrian god that he can control the weather and whatever. Like,
how are you sending this person back out on the streets.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
He's not The kids are not al right like this.

Speaker 2 (01:30:34):
Yeah, I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
He describes to doctors that he's practicing the Sumerian religion
that he made up, and that he and his wife
are the only two practitioners in the world. Pazuzu told
the doctors he needed to be released in order to
make an animal sacrifice, otherwise his anxiety would continue. That
making the animal sacrifice was the only thing to cure
his anxiety, his mother said. Anthea told the psychiatrist she

(01:31:01):
was afraid her son would kill himself if he was
not allowed to perform an animal sacrifice. Yet, despite the
fact that the report paints a picture of this very
sick and troubled young man. He is found competent to
stand trial, he's released. He ends up taking a plea
deal on May twenty eighth of twenty ten, and perceives

(01:31:21):
five years of probation for his involvement in this man's murder.

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
For the cessory of murder.

Speaker 2 (01:31:28):
This you know, this accident when you shot a man
in the head, when your buddy shot a man in
the head, if he was standing there watching, and then
you took the guy to your house and let him
stay there so police couldn't find it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
I mean, yeah, I mean if I've ever heard of
a case that needs no follow up and some probably
unsupervised probation at that. Let's be honest. This is what
you get, is what I'm talking about. This is not
good for him, and this is not good for.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
The community because he's right back out he's in Clemmings
using drugs, drinking alcohol as if nothing happened. It's very frustrating.

Speaker 1 (01:32:08):
And what about the poor animals. Let's be honest, what
about this.

Speaker 2 (01:32:11):
Poor man who's lost his life? These two idiots, and
then the criminal justice system wants to say, oh, well,
it was an accident. I mean, I'm sorry, but that's bullshit.
And if I were that young man's mother, I mean,
miss Chandler, she's a lot nicer than I am, because
I would be oh my god, I'd be through the roof.

Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
Now did they nail the other guy?

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
Nicholas Rizzy pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter on March or
in March of twenty eleven, and he was only sentenced
to thirteen months in prison for shooting a man in
the fucking head.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
But from going out of his way and one gun
jams when he goes back and gets another gun. This
is premeditated murder these two guys.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
I just don't know how you can shoot somebody in
the fucking head and then tell police as an accident
and you run from the scene, and then you're like
on the lamb because his mom said, if it was
an accident, why didn't you call the police? Why didn't
you call nine to one one.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
Yeah, I don't understand how that worked out like that.
That's not justice for that.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
Poor guy, not at all. I mean, very frustrating. Finally,
after years of enduring the toilet house and of course
her son's behavior. Cynthia goes to law enforcement on November
eighth of twenty eleven. She claimed to be witnessed to
a murderer that had taken place in the house a
few years earlier.

Speaker 1 (01:33:32):
Oh yeah, so in a few years out in I
can't live with this anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
Yeah, okay, so this is this is how it went
down at the time, Cynthia, here's a gunshot. When she
goes out into the living room, she sees Amber Birch
holding a rifle. Amber is standing next to an unresponsive
man who's kind of slumped over on the couch. Cynthia
calls this man Tommy and says Tommy had been partying
with the couple, meaning Amber and her son. Unsure of

(01:34:02):
what to do, Cynthia returned to her bedroom. A few
moments later, she emerges, telling her son, I'm going to
work and just leaves the house.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:34:12):
Later that evening, from the bathroom window, Cynthia views Amber
and a woman named Dixie burying a body in the backyard.

Speaker 1 (01:34:24):
Now so, she and all seriousness goes to police and
recounts the story in this manner and doesn't feel bad
about it. I mean, what's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (01:34:36):
Yeah. I mean, like I said, I think Cynthia is
a big part of the problem here. Well, of course,
law enforcement needs some concrete evidence. They can't just simply
take this woman in her word. So they asked her, well,
do we have permission to go search the home?

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
She refuses, Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
She doesn't. Then she's like, you know, I don't want
to cooperate and leaves. So law enforcement doesn't act.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
Well, they can't because they're like.

Speaker 2 (01:35:02):
Okay, Now, at the time, all police needed to do
really was investigate missing persons cases because a man named
Tommy Welch had gone missing on October four of two
thousand and nine.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
So again, now here it is they were just a
little bit of follow up, just a little bit of
actual police work. They may have been like.

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
Wait a minute, we have this fellow named Tommy who's missing,
and supposedly they killed a man named Tommy.

Speaker 1 (01:35:29):
Hmmm huh. And this area is not that big of
an area.

Speaker 2 (01:35:33):
Again, let's connect the dots or not. Yeah, So Tommy
was last seen at the Colonial Arms apartments, where he
was visiting his brother. At some point, Tommy told his
family he was going home to his apartment on Brewer Avenue,
but was set to return like he had plans with
his family, Like I think he was meeting up with

(01:35:54):
his brother, sister in law, maybe his mom. They were
going to go, you know, do something together. He was,
I guess, a real family oriented guy who was described
as as being like a blue collar guy, regular dude,
you know, worked a job, just local guy, you know whatever.
So he takes off walking to his apartment. You know,

(01:36:16):
I'm gonna be back in a few minutes or whatever.
It doesn't sound like the apartments that far off from
like where his brother lived. But he was never seen again.

Speaker 1 (01:36:23):
Okay, just spanishes.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
In August of twenty fourteen, a guy named Daniel Pilcher,
who resided in Lexington, North Carolina, reached out to police
in Winston Salem. He told them he had resided at
the knob Hill home with Pazzuzu for three months and
that during that time, Pazzuzu told him about a quote
fat motherfucker buried under a tarp in the backyard. Crime

(01:36:48):
stoppers received another report from an Army veteran named Matthew
Flowers on September twenty sixth of twenty fourteen. Flowers had
known Pazzuzu for about eight years. At this time, he
became concerned. This all takes place back in two thousand
and nine. Matt becomes concerned and this was, you know,

(01:37:09):
years earlier, when he had an ex girlfriend named Dixie Ross.
Apparently they were kind of like rekindling I guess maybe
their relationship or whatever. And she tells him that she
helped bury a body on Puzuzu's property at the time, Dick.
She shared that she was part of the family.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
And so he's telling police this, yeah, so wow, And
then I got this mom in here, tell me that
a girl named Dixie and was it Amber right.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
So one of the reasons I think Flowers didn't come
forward until twenty fourteen, although he's heard the story like
five years four or five years you know earlier, is
he was in the army and he was stationed on
the West Coast. So by twenty fourteen, he's out of
the army and he's back living in his hometown in
Winston's say, okay, So that's when he's like, Harry, so

(01:38:04):
let me get into this, because he's like knows the story.
But then he's hearing other broomers and gossip. Yeah, Flowers,
like I said, had known Pozzuzo. His ex girlfriend had
apparently helped bury a body on the property now at
the time, back in two thousand and nine, Dixie shared
she was part of this family, this cult like kind

(01:38:25):
of group that Pazuzu had formed. Dixie admitted that she
had done some quote weird things with Pazuzu and Amber
participated in some rituals. Oh, who knows what else. Maybe
she had dirty We haven't washed our body in a year. Sex,
I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (01:38:43):
Three way, three stinky way.

Speaker 2 (01:38:48):
Throw up in my mouth. When Dixie shared this information,
Flowers was very concerned about her safety. He was stationed
in Washington at the time, and he paid to fly
Dixie to the West Coast to be with him. I mean,
you hear the story.

Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
He's getting her the hell out of the off.

Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
I feel like this Sun's not like a good situation
to be in, right. Well, yeah, So when she arrives,
Dixie shared that Pazuzu had shot a man in the
back of the head with a twenty two rifle. Pazuzu
was unable to bury the body because he had injured
himself jumping up and down on the victim. Shouting you
fucked up, motherfucker, and had rolled an ankle.

Speaker 1 (01:39:24):
Wow, that's a hell of a way to roll an ankle.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
Amber had texted Dixie asking her to come over to
help with something. At first, Pazuzu seemed angry that Amber
might have told Dixie about the murder. Amber seemed excited
sharing with her friend.

Speaker 1 (01:39:38):
I just did my first So Amber's the one that
killed him.

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
That is what we assume, yes, right now. The pair
of grabbed two shovels to dig a hole in the backyard.
The hole wasn't deep enough when they tried to dump
the body. They ended up covering it partially with a tarp.
Pazuzu joins the women outside. The three begin bashing the
victim's legs with shovels in order to break them so
that he could fit into the hall because they didn't

(01:40:06):
dig it deep enough. So after Matt hears the story,
I mean like he just does not know what to believe, right,
He's like, what the fuck? Well, about a month or
two after hearing this story from Dixie, he receives a
phone call from Pazuzu. Pazuzu calls Dixie a bitch and
a snitch, and is like, she's out here telling, you know,
telling people everything. Now, Matt took leaf from the army

(01:40:33):
and goes home and confronts Pazzuzu and apparently says something like,
I'm the one who turned you in and I'm not
afraid of you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
Oh wow, Matt, don't give a damn.

Speaker 2 (01:40:44):
So in the search warrant, Matt tells law enforcement that
he's not afraid to testify. By now, at this point
twenty fourteen, Dixie's living in Winston Salem. She's dating a
guy named Cameron Myers. At the time. Law enforcement need
to track her down, so they start like looking into
the boy boyfriend just to like figure out where she is,
you know, where she stay.

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):
Right Dixie.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
Finally they are able to reach her, so police contact her.
They want to interview her. They're like, look, we've spoken
with Matt. He told us the deal. Do you want
to come down here and talk to us. She agrees
to meet with investigators. On September twenty ninth of twenty fourteen,
Dixie fully admitted that she had been friends with Amber
Birch and spend a lot of time hanging out at

(01:41:27):
the house on knob Hill Road. During an encounter in
September of two thousand and nine, Amber asked Dixie if
she could keep a secret. Amber then leaned into Dixie's ear,
saying quote, I'm going to do my first. When Dixie
pressed her for more information because she took the statement
to mean like premeditated murder, She's not a dummy, right right,

(01:41:48):
Amber just said, you know, like paz Puzuzu. I guess,
but she wouldn't further explain the meaning behind it. It
was three days later, on Octobercober third of two thousand
and nine, that Dixie received a text from Amber to
come over right away. When she arrived, Amber was sitting
outside on the porch again. She told Dixie, I did

(01:42:10):
my first. According to Dixie, Amber and Pazuzu had picked
up a hitchhiker and that he was in the backyard deceased.

Speaker 1 (01:42:20):
Now, and this is the gentleman that walked away from
his brother's house to go to his apartment.

Speaker 2 (01:42:26):
The hitchhiker. We're assuming that's this, yes, right, that's Tommy.
Once Dixie joined Amber in the backyard, there was a
black tarp, presumably there was a body underneath. Amber asks,
do you want to see it?

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
God? What is wrong with these people.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
That's when Amber lifts the tarp up to reveal the
arm and partial torso of a white male. The two
begin digging, but Amber is wearing sandals or I'm sorry,
Dixie's wearing sandals. So she described the ground being really hard,
and that when she jumped on the shovel to drive
it to the ground, her shoes kept falling off.

Speaker 1 (01:43:02):
These people have never ever dug a hole with a shovel.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
Look, if my friend calls me like I need you
to come over here and then like all of a sudden,
here we're gonna like bury a body, I'm not gonna
do that with you. I'm sorry. No, I'm actually not sorry.
I'm just not gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:16):
No, I'm not only not gonna do it. I'm going
to go straight and tell police. And who the hell
tries to dig a hole with sandals flip flops on.

Speaker 2 (01:43:25):
Look, people seem like the best and brightest to you.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
First thing I would do is go put on some.

Speaker 2 (01:43:31):
Bo These are not Ivy League brainiacs, Dylan. These people
are this is They're not in my t students.

Speaker 1 (01:43:39):
They do seem to be low i Q I must say,
and it's just their uh. The fact that you would
call a friend and tell them this, have them come
over and show them something like that is just I
don't know, I don't even know what to say.

Speaker 2 (01:43:56):
At some point, Amber puts on a pair of shoes
that Dixie does not recognize, and then she starts making
jokes about wearing a dead man's shoes. Pazzuzu joins them
at the burial site in the backyard. He told the
women that they needed to put the victim in the
holl Dixie tells him, like, it's too shallow, and he says, quote, bitch,

(01:44:17):
there's plenty of room for you in this yard too.

Speaker 1 (01:44:20):
I buck, you can't even dig this hole. What are
you talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
How you rolled your ankle, you little puss. He's you
got girls out here, and flip Flop is digging for you.
The three then dragged the body over to the hole.
Dixie said the victim was a white male. She estimated
he weighed around two hundred pounds and was only wearing
a pair of boxer shorts. She describes seeing a gunshot
wound in the back and side of the victim's head.

(01:44:46):
When Pazuzu realized they wouldn't be able to fit the
body into the hole. That's when he orders them to
break the legs or the arms and legs using shovels.

Speaker 1 (01:44:56):
This is insane, Like if.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
You just start bashing, eventually your break is li leg
or arm. Yeah. Afterwards, Dixie and Amber cover the body
with the dirt because this doesn't really work. Now, while
they're covering this body with dirt, Cynthia James comes outside
and is acting like she's pulling weeds. Now, you gotta
remember this is like middle of the night, early morning hours,

(01:45:21):
my gode hours of the morning. Then she's just out
here pulling weeds. And that's when Pazzuzu told his mother
a quote, get the funk back inside. Okay, the body
wasn't fully covered once they put dirt on top of it.
It seems like the fella's the victim's knee was kind
of sticking about the dirt. They've got this really shallow hole.

(01:45:46):
Pazuza grabs the tarp, places it on top, and then
he piles several junk items on the tarp to kind
of secure it into place. Amber suggests they clean the
shovels by dipping them into the swimming pool. There's no
in the pool, but Pazuzu does keep like just chlorine
water in the pool like a very little bit. Who

(01:46:06):
knows why. So they dipped the shovels in there to
clean to clean them. Then the shovels were hidden behind
some junk in the garage. Dixie joined Pazuzu and Amber
upstairs where the shooting had occurred in the living room.
They both tell her about how they had picked up
this hitchhiker. He had been sitting right there on the couch.
Amber went and grabbed a gun and shot him. Quote

(01:46:29):
he didn't see it coming, Pazuzu said, And they laughed
and left and left.

Speaker 1 (01:46:35):
God, these people are sick.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
Then Dixie was warned out to tell anyone, including her
boyfriend at the time, Nate Anderson. He's appeared in the
Dice the Vice documentary. As we've discussed earlier, if she told,
Dixie would be their second or third victim, so they're
threatening her. Two days later, Dixie returns to the house.
She says she does this so Amber would think everything

(01:46:57):
was normal. At the time, every body in the house
was drunk and partying. Dixie took out her phone and
started snapping photos she had wanted to get a picture
of the tarp in the backyard. She was hoping to
get a picture of the body, but then chickened out.
Two weeks later, Dixie described there was another gathering in
the house. During this party, Amber asked Dixie to help

(01:47:18):
with the body again because it was starting to smell.
Dixie tells her there's too many people around, like, you
have a house full of people. I'm not going to
go back there and fuck with his body. What are
you talking about. Amber's like, oh, well, it's fine. Pazuzu
will make sure nobody bothers us. He'll keep everybody inside.

Speaker 1 (01:47:37):
Okay, So Dixie.

Speaker 2 (01:47:38):
Goes outside with her again what are you doing. At
some point, her boyfriend Nate peers out the window. That's
when Pazuzu comes outside and tells Dixie, like, you need
to go check on Nate. So by the time she
gets back in the house, she finds her boyfriend sitting
on the front porch. He's intoxicated. He asked if she

(01:47:58):
was participating in one of their quote weird rituals, and
she's like yeah, and she's really glad that he didn't
know about the body.

Speaker 1 (01:48:06):
Okay, So everything's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
Everything's okay, what the fuck, dude, this is what she's
selling police. Okay, look, Dixie, I don't know which situation
is pulled directly from the search warrant. Okay, Yeah, Dixie's
story was enough to get a search warrant for Puzuzu's house,
so on October fourth, a judge signed the order. Investigators
spent the day sifting through the rubble of the home

(01:48:30):
and digging up the backyard. The house was so terrible
that investigators had to use self contained breathing apparatuses just
to go inside.

Speaker 1 (01:48:38):
Now, it can't take long to find the body in
the backyard, right, it's literally like under a tarb yeah,
and a depression not even a hole. Yeah yeah, so yeah,
apparently the altar room was the stinkiest of all the rooms. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:48:58):
It was on October fifth of two thousand and fourteen
that investigators unearthed two bodies. Pazuzu, Augarad and Amber Birch
were arrested. They had been at the house when investigators
found the victims. So while police are searching the home,
they're just like chilling.

Speaker 1 (01:49:13):
Okay, they'll never find it.

Speaker 2 (01:49:14):
Hanging out.

Speaker 1 (01:49:16):
I'm gonna have Satan glamour their eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:49:18):
Satan is protecting me.

Speaker 1 (01:49:20):
Toy, can't they can't see the power of the devil.
But Roses and like Daisies.

Speaker 2 (01:49:25):
Both were charged with one count of murderer and accessory
After the fact, they were placed in Forsyth County Detention
Center without bond. Now, once Amber Birch is in custody,
she just starts singing like a canary man. She tells
them everything that includes how she killed a man and
buried his body in the backyard. Sometime between October second

(01:49:46):
and October fifth of two thousand and nine, which is
almost five years to the day that this happened, is
when the bodies are found and they're arrested.

Speaker 1 (01:49:55):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:49:56):
The remains found on the property were taken to Wake
Forest Baptist Medical Center for autopsy and examination. And this
story was big news. People gathered for days outside the
house watching authorities work. It's making you know, national headlines.
You got these sensational story cannibal killer, Satanists and suburbs.

Speaker 1 (01:50:20):
Well, yeah, this guy's name is Pazuzu. Yeah, so I
mean that alone, you have the sleepy little suburban town
and stuff like this just doesn't happen there.

Speaker 2 (01:50:30):
Afterwards, Cynthia James receives notice that she has to clean
up her property, but eventually the house was sold back
to the bank three different times.

Speaker 1 (01:50:39):
Banks like we don't want it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
Neighbors erupted in Cheers on the morning of April twenty fifth,
I'm sorry April twenty fourth, twenty fifteen, as they watched
the home demolition. The house was flattened, They brought in
equipment and just tore the motherfucker down.

Speaker 1 (01:50:54):
Yeah. I don't even I don't think there was any
save in that home.

Speaker 2 (01:50:57):
It was so far gone as Yeah. I mean, when
you've got to wear like special hazmat suits to just
go in the house, you know, it's bad.

Speaker 1 (01:51:08):
No, And I think a place like that should be
torn down, torn down, Yeah, because it's the place where
these poor victims were treated like trash. Right, They were
you know, attacked, murdered for it. Sounds like they didn't
even do anything, you know what I'm saying. It wasn't
even like a fight or wasn't over anything. It's just

(01:51:30):
pure senseless violence. Yeah, it's really ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:51:33):
Yeah, just absolutely no sense, no reasoning.

Speaker 1 (01:51:39):
I'm just just to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:41):
Yeah, just because you're a sick fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:51:44):
I guess, well, no, this is one of those. God,
their behavior is so strange. They weren't even like really
trying to hide it, you know what I'm saying, No,
not at all. And it's like you get a guy
and a girl like this together and they both she
has to have issues too, let's be honest, and then
together they're dangerous.

Speaker 2 (01:52:04):
Yeah what is that philea do or whatever? Like the
folly of two? Yeah, whatever that phrases. So in the meantime,
Pazuzu had attempted suicide while he was in the county jail,
so they transferred him to Central Prison in Raleigh, North Carolina,
for safekeeping. During this time, Pazuzu wrote letters to his mother.

(01:52:25):
In the last letter, dated October twenty six, twenty fifteen,
Pazzuzu wrote quote, I should get a medal for murdering
these stupid explicit explicative. I don't know what he said, explicit, exploitive.

Speaker 1 (01:52:40):
It's why does he think he needs? Guy?

Speaker 2 (01:52:44):
Again? I have no words. I mean, you're writing this
to your mother while you're incarcerated.

Speaker 1 (01:52:53):
They should have put his mom in murder. They should
have rested her too. Dude, I agree own some.

Speaker 2 (01:52:58):
A lot of people think that. Yeah, because people think
Mom should have gotten some time out of this.

Speaker 1 (01:53:06):
Yeah, because I mean, you're going way beyond just not
the fact, you're just not saying anything.

Speaker 2 (01:53:11):
What about this Dixie chick?

Speaker 1 (01:53:12):
Well yeah, well that's uh gosh, what you got tampering
with a corpse? How is she not accessory after the recession?

Speaker 2 (01:53:21):
Not an accessory?

Speaker 1 (01:53:22):
You got tampering with evidence? You got multiple charges easily.

Speaker 2 (01:53:29):
Two days later, Pazzuzu committed suicide in his prison cell.
According to reports, he suffered blood loss from a deep
wound on his arm. However, no weapon or item was
found in a cell. Rumors spread that he had bitten
into his forearm causing this injury.

Speaker 1 (01:53:45):
Oh damn, I don't know, Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (01:53:51):
There would be no trial for Pazuzu. Amber Birch took
a plee deal. She would spend thirty to forty years
in prison for secondary murder, armed robbery, and accessory after
the fact.

Speaker 1 (01:54:03):
How to give her second degree?

Speaker 2 (01:54:05):
Another woman named Crystal Matlock pleaded guilty to conspiracy to
accessory after the fact of first murder. She received thirty
eight to fifty eight months in prison with credit for
time served, which was two hundred and forty two days.
And I'm not really sure how Crystal Matlock fit into this.

(01:54:26):
I mean, we've got Dixie. I was like, are they
the same person? But I don't think they are?

Speaker 1 (01:54:32):
Okay, Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:54:33):
I'm not sure. So why are some people charged and
others or not? Why is this fucking mama allowed to
be out and about?

Speaker 1 (01:54:40):
Maybe Dixie is Crystal because I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:54:44):
I don't think so, but I'm just confused, like who's Crystal?
And then we have Terina Billings father Allan. I mean
supposedly he was there and knew what had gone down. Yeah,
he passed away. I guess before all this happened, so
what a shit show. Otherwise he might've been in jail.

(01:55:06):
I don't know. The community was shocked by the gruesome
turn of events. A childhood neighbor told Fox eight, quote,
everyone knew little Johnny just ain't right.

Speaker 1 (01:55:16):
God, that's a great quote.

Speaker 2 (01:55:18):
Cynthia James keeps her son's ashes in an urn.

Speaker 1 (01:55:22):
Oh, I'm glad she's able to keep them close. And honestly,
to a degree, I feel like the system he was
failed as well. I do think he was. I don't
think he was acting. I think he was sick. I
think he had serious mental health problems. He didn't have

(01:55:42):
a parent that had the guts or the grit to
buckle down and get their child help. He could, like
you said, he could have had helped very early on.
He had issues from eight years old. You know what
I'm saying, And that is a the community, these innocent

(01:56:02):
victims suffered because his mom did not nut up and
do what a parent should do in a situation like
that and get her son under control and get her
son proper help for his sake as well. So she's
I mean, how could you not put responsibility on her
in this story.

Speaker 2 (01:56:22):
My resources for today were the vice docu sries, the
WO newspaper reports. Since this is a recent case, there's
a lot of information out there, and legal documents. Once
the search warrants were finally released, we got a trove
of information about how they brought down Pazuzu. But we
also see how the system not only failed by you know,

(01:56:49):
treating Pazuzu, getting him some mental help or whatever, but
that they also failed to investigate properly these accusations, these rumors.

Speaker 1 (01:56:58):
Yeah, because they they were not criminal masterminds.

Speaker 2 (01:57:02):
Well, I mean that's like five years of people coming
to you telling you the same story. Yeah, I know,
it's gonna keep like ignoring it.

Speaker 1 (01:57:10):
Oh yoh yo, Toto on his foots won't believe them.
At what point do you say, wait a second, you know,
maybe there's something to this is if people are feeling
strongly enough about to come tell you, they'll likely you know,
swear out in Affidavid right, and you would think that
some of that could lead to search warrants and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:57:32):
Yeah, that's a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:57:33):
Gosh, it's terrible innocent victims caught up in this insanity.

Speaker 2 (01:57:37):
Yeah, I mean that's the part I think we get
so wrapped up in discussing Pozuzu. You know, we forget
that there were two men who lost their lives, two
men who had families and people who loved them.

Speaker 1 (01:57:48):
And uh, some of his associates were quoted as saying
they felt like he you know, maybe harmed or killed
other people. Yes, and I would not be surprised if
that was true.

Speaker 2 (01:58:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:58:03):
Oh my gosh, it's just.

Speaker 2 (01:58:05):
A very troubling story altogether.

Speaker 1 (01:58:08):
It is so thank you for that, Heather, You're welcome, Dylan,
thank you for all your hard work on that, and
uh can't wait till see what we get to next.
I'm ready can't wait for another installment. Heather's got a
heavy workload right now. Another installment of the West Memphis
three deep Dive on Patreon. That has been a blast.

Speaker 2 (01:58:28):
Yeah, we have two episodes out so far. I'm working
on getting the third released. We're just we're crawling all
over that story. Yeah, like I'm a mite with.

Speaker 1 (01:58:38):
A mot on a bird and then calt Mitts bird
might a little heather mite. All right, So until next time,
we hope everybody stays safe. And uh, you know what,
keep it spooky, keep it spooky. Let's uh rock into November.
I know that's the month that comes after October September,
and uh yeah, let's make the last week of October,

(01:59:00):
want to remember.

Speaker 2 (01:59:00):
Yeah, throw a spider web on it it. It's gonna
be fun by doing Bye

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