The Dayton Strangler Part Two

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Three more women and one man are the latest victims of the Dayton Strangler in part two. 

Intro music by Joe Buck Yourself
Hosts Heather and Dylan Packer


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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Dark Cast Network indie pods with adark side. I'm Down and I'm call

(00:21):
and Scottish Murders is a true crimepodcast dedicated to people from or living in
Scotland. Just like anywhere else inthe world, these murders can be truly
horrific and shocking, and we wantto shine more light upon them. Join
us every two weeks on Scottish Murders, where we'll bring you cases both solved
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(00:43):
Find us wherever you stream your podcasts, as well as on social media.
Join us therebye. Devil is onhis way. Devil is on his way.

(01:15):
Devil is on his way. MotherForger, The Devil gonna make you
pay Fall to your knees. Devilis on his way. Fall to your
knees. Devil gonna make you payfall to your knees, Devil. Mountain
Murders is an Appalachian true crime podcast. Some content may not be suitable for

(01:37):
all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. We say funck a lot, Hey
y'all, welcome back to Mountain Murders. I'm Heather and I'm Dylan. Hey
you with me as always, Dylan, you can't get rid of me.
I swear you was trying to shakeme when we is in the store the
other day and I found you.He just trying to get me lost.

(01:59):
I don't have to try. Ijust look up and you're like someplace else
would no you you you move quicklyamongst the aisles. You'll you'll cut left
when I think you're going right,and I think you're doing counter surveillance moves
because I'm pretty sure that you're tryingto lose me, and you do it

(02:19):
very well, because I get lostwell. I do have certain maneuvers that
work for me. So secret Service. If you need a better employee,
call me. Yeah. I'm reallygood at you know, strategicy. She's
good at strategy, tactical stuff.She is. She can lose her husband
and a heartbeat wal Mart. Yeah, i'mla. Meet me by the toilet

(02:42):
paper still keep my own. Ilike, meet me by the paper products.
I'm gonna go grab this, Yougo grab that. Meet me by
the paper products, and I getback there and you're nowhere in that area.
But then while I'm looking for you, okay, okay, panically panicked,
panically panically looking for you. You'repanically looking for me. You're just
you pop up out of nowhere likeyou've been watching me look for you.

(03:07):
This bullshit. It's a fun gamewe played, Dylan. But enough of
that. We are here to distractyou. Yeah, from all that is
happening in the world. Trap.I can't. I can't watch anything these
days, Dylan. It makes myhead hurt. No, no, and
it's not just the recent event,it's all of it. I can't this
cern reality we leave in. Idon't like it. I did read an

(03:30):
article earlier about global warming and howit is speeding up time. Okay,
Well that explains it, because Itold you I've been losing weeks at a
time. Well it's only like amillisecond or something. Oh, I see,
but I don't believe it. Sookay, because it seems like time's
going by very quickly. Yeah,no, it's going by way faster than

(03:53):
a millisecond. And I will offera. I want you to explain to
me how global warmings affect Why Isent you the article, But what happened
you read? How does at worklook? This job expects me to work
the whole time. Job is ruiningour lives. It's ridiculous. I've never
had a job where I'm expected towork the entire time. I mean,
it's ridiculous. I mean it reallyis. All Right, Dylan, I'm

(04:16):
here to distract you with some truecrime away from your complaining. Are you
ready? Okay, get into thesecond installment of The Dayton Strangler. Yes,
yes, remind us where we're pickingup. Okay, Well, I
will remind you. But first wehave some business to take care of,
Dylan. Oh, we have somepatrons who sponsored today's episode and we have

(04:39):
to give them a big shout out. Hi. We have Beth Hey,
Bath, Buffy, Buffy and fancyPants. Fancy Pants. Great great names.
Yes, so thank you for sponsoringtoday's episode. Thank you so much.
And thank you to all the otherlisteners and patrons. You guys are
our world. You really are Facebookprofile. I would be like Mount Murders

(05:01):
listeners and patrons are my world witha heart. Yeah, all right,
and like a little Globe icon ofcourse. Oh that's cute. Well,
Dylan With Donna's murderer at large,the city of Dayton remained on edge.
Moses Markowitz, age sixty one,and his forty nine year old wife,

(05:23):
Mary, moved from Covington, Kentucky, to Dayton in June of nineteen oh
seven, despite the murders of youngwomen in the area. They were fully
aware these crimes were happening, butthey needed to get to a new spot.
They were looking for, you know, work, the American dream.

(05:45):
Yeah, and these these it doesn'tsurprise me. These types of murders have
really has the entire area on edgebecause they are so brutal. Well.
The Markowitz had three daughters, oneof which had already been in t with
the law due to unruly behavior.Moses was offered a job and living arrangements,
making the move to Dayton worth itfor his family. Moses and Mary

(06:11):
had met in Poland around eighteen seventyone, then immigrated to the United States.
Three older children lived independently, sothree younger daughters were the only ones
remaining in the home. Yiddish wasspoken in the house, but the girls
could speak English, but Moses andMary mostly spoke Yiddish. Yeah, and
I think that's common in these whatwould you call it, first generation,

(06:32):
yeah, immigrant homes. You havethe child. The children oftentimes are the
interpreters for their parents, and notonly in language and you know, just
simple business throughout their day, butalso to the culture. You know,
they helped them understand the culture better. Is that? Is that? So
that's what I think? Is that? Don't know? Is that your explanation?

(06:53):
Yeah? I think I think itmakes sense. And then the little
the kids could translate that to theirYiddish parents and tell them what I said.
While Moses worked, Mary stayed hometo tend to their daughters. However,
she suffered from a variety of illnesses, including hysteria at times. You
know, def Leppard was singing abouthysteria. Now, is is that a

(07:15):
real thing? Or is that someone of those made up things that they
used to just say women had whenthey didn't want to hear what they said.
Yeah, there's pretty much how youtreat me. No, tell me
that I am suffering from hysteria.Well, no, you fucked up,
and then I'm getting on to youabout it, and then you're like,
oh, that's just you're just historical, that's your histrionics acting up. Yeah.
See, No, I don't dothat. I don't gaslight you about

(07:35):
your emotional state. Yeah you do. No. I set responsibility for my
actions and I quietly listened to youas you admonish me. Yes, hysteria
is one of those kind of madeup illnesses that I think was placed or
put in place to a cover varietyof things, whether it be like depression,
or maybe some sort of mental illnessor just simple you know, frustrations.

(08:01):
Maybe yeah, it is for somereason. Only women could catch you.
They could catch hysteria. Yes.She had little stamina and often left
chores to the daughters. Maggie attendedschool while Bertha, having completed school,
was seeking work. Anna, whowas the older daughter, remained at home
to cook and clean for the family. She cared for their mother Mary.

(08:24):
Bertha had become a problem for thefamily. She liked to quote roam the
streets. Oh gosh, Bertha waspretty and got a lot of attention from
men, which she devoured. Atfifteen years old, she had eloped with
an eighteen year old whose friend hadpretended to be her father. Oh so
he gave permission? Yes. Wow. The Markowitz family hired an attorney to

(08:48):
have the marriage annulled. Bertha wasthen placed in a home for girls,
enlabeled an incorrigible child by the courts. Wow, so they were able to
get her back and a nullify annulan annullyment. Well, they stopped the
wedding, yeah, or they annulledit. Well, I'm assuming they nullified
the marriage been the correct term.So they've they've gotten the uh the un

(09:15):
Well, gosh, you are justa mushmouth bitch today. Yeah, I'm
a sol mushy mouth bitch. Theyso they got they got her back,
They got her back, they gother back. Let's just leave it at
that for now. Let my braincatch up. Anna was shy but dreamed
of meeting a nice man to marry, settle down, have a family.
Birth was happy to take Anna aroundtown to meet young men. One of

(09:37):
their favorite spots was the Lake SideAmusement Park. It was during a visit
to the park that the sisters meta young man named Abe Cohen, a
traveling shoe salesman, and his realname was actually Abe Gordon, but he
was going by the name Cohen.And I'm not sure why do you think
that sounds cooler? Maybe? Ithink Gordon's all right? I think Abe

(10:00):
Froeman would have been a great name, and he could have told people he
was the sausage King of Chicago.Abe Froeman. Yeah, Okay, I'm
a I don't know the reference,but I still Harris Feelers. Oh okay,
taking it back in the day onme. Yeah, yeah, okay.
So anyway, a traveling shoe salesman, now, I wonder how that
works. Do you have a catalogand you go around showing the shoe,

(10:24):
because you would you have a suitcasefull of shoes. I bet he has
a sample case, right, Yeah, I mean that commonly. Uh,
you know, it was common forsalesmen back then to have actual samples,
you know, not a nice littlecase. They kind of unfold and do
the little presentation. You know.I remember even when you went in the
shoe store, people they helped you. They would size your feet, they

(10:46):
would help. I mean, itwas quite a bit more. It was
almost more like Al Bundy being ashoe salesman than what you have nowadays,
where they kind of just sometimes arehelpful. Sometimes they're not want to be
left alone in the shoe store.But yeah, I mean they would take
you, they would fit you.I don't need someone to size my feet.
But you know, if your mamatells you you're gonna get shoes,
you gotta go in there. Youdon't get to tell, see, back

(11:07):
then, kids didn't give their opinionon anything that was happening. Now you
know, you know you you look, I was thinking about this. Look,
I gave my opinion on what washappening when it came to shoes.
Okay, from a very young age, I had a lot of opinions dealing
on the shoes. I was planningto have my parents purchase for me.

(11:28):
Right. So I was at asplash pad the other day with my step
son because he loves the water inthe hot sun, and uh I saw
this these parents asking the children ifthey were ready to go, right,
are you ready? And the kidsare like, nah, five more minutes.
And their parents, you could tellthey probably had things to do or
you know, Errand's or dinner,and it's like, okay, we'll give

(11:50):
you a few more minutes. Nota single time did my mom ever ask
me if I was if A wantedto go somewhere, if I be wanted
was ready to go? I wastold these things. Yeah, I look
how you turned out. I turnedout. I'm a fairly functional, almost
an adult, right, almost barelyfunctional adult? Yees? Yeah, together,

(12:11):
me and you are almost a functionaladult. Yes, yeah, we're
like two thirds, but a functionaladult ask my child, are you ready
to go? Yeah? See,if you're having a good time, we
can stay. I mean, ifwe have to get on someplace, I'll
be like, hey, Bud,we got to wrap it up, we
got to be out of here.So you will direct them if it Yeah.
But if we're just you know,having a casual afternoon out, I'm

(12:33):
gonna ask, hey, are youready to go? Are you still having
fun? Yeah? I'm not tryingto tear you away from a good time.
I like to shoot them down.I like to dash their dreams.
Yeah, right when they're really gettinginto it, I'm just like, let's
go, and then we go andwe don't even do anything. I just
shot on their dreams, bro,And I'm preparing them for life. Yeah.
That's kind of how our marriage workstoo. Well, I'm preparing having

(12:56):
a good time. You just onit. That's not true. It's totally
true. I'm not like it usuallyjust you shitting on it because you get
drunk and like act like a buffoonor something. Well that happened before in
the past, that may have happeneda time or two. Man, if
you feel embarrassed, if you feelembarrassed about just thinking back on the evening

(13:16):
before, like the next day.Yeah, you gotta chill out a little
bit, because that's it's not agood it's not a good look, you
know what I'm saying. And I'veheard of people that felt that way before.
Yeah, I've never felt that waymyself. Okay, it's time for
you to shut up and get inthe car, Deil and we're leaving.
See you didn't ask me no more. I don't drink like that anymore.
We're not talking about you. Whyyou gotta make it about you? And

(13:39):
we're talking about the Dayton Strangler.Can we get back to this? You
just wake up every day look inthe mirror and think, how can I
make this about myself? I doknow I'm not a narcissist. See you
got me talking about me again.See you look at you. I allow
you to continue with the story.On Sunday, August eleventh of nineteen oh
seven, after dinner, the triowent on a walk at nearby mckayb Park.

(14:03):
So this is Anna Abe Cohen,not to be confused with Abe froman
Hey are you Abe Gordon? Ohno, some Abe Cohen and little sister
Bertha so they go to McKay Park, which had a reputation for being a
rough and rowdy spot. As youremember in episode one of The Dayton Strangler

(14:24):
we talked about Ada Lance. Thepark was just a few blocks from her
home. Yeah, a lot ofdrunken shenanigans. Sounds like a pretty dope
ass park, Dylan getting rowdy.Maybe some gun shots, you know,
guns, people firing their guns,like their ac DC, some public urination,
probably kay shenanigans, just all aroundshenanigans. Right. Well, they

(14:46):
just said they're going to go ona walk at this park. Abe reassured
Anna they would be safe. Shehad reservations about going to the park.
She'd heard about this park before.Yeah, and she's kind of shy be
not the most adventurous Bertha. Onthe other hand, she's the outgoing sister.
She's down for adventure, down toa lope, down to be an

(15:11):
unruly child, she's down with thesickness. Yeah, exactly. So Aby
sure's Anna, they're gonna be safe. And he led the sisters to a
dark, secluded spot near a grassyarea where there was a large beech tree.
After sitting down, Abe started toembrace and uh, well, just
do some general smooching with Anna.Oh man, who wants to be the

(15:33):
third wheel alone for that, Well, he's trying to get fresh, as
the kids say, have you everbeen in this situation? I've never really
been the third wheel, but Idon't think I would like it. Oh
I've been a third wheel before?You really? Yeah? Yeah? Did
you enjoy it? I made myselfscarce? Oh you just oh by like,

(15:54):
well look at this, it's dark, but look you can see a
bug over here. I mean,you know, I'm gonna go check it
out. I don't know who juststarts like making out like right beside people,
people gosh fluts. I can neverdo it with someone else in their
room. Floody friends know it's gonnawork for me. I don't want to

(16:15):
hear smell smell, well, lookit's all the senses. I don't want
to touch. I don't want tofeel none of that. I don't want
to know what your damn your fuckface looked like? What pardon my french.
I don't want to hear any ofthat that you managed to ratches that
up, didn't you? Shit justgot real well, while they're over here,

(16:36):
you know, getting some smooches.It sounds more like maybe Anna was
just kind of being awkward and thisdude was trying to like, you know,
sniffer neck or something. Now Icould watch somebody crash and burn.
That's fun. So Bertha is sulkingbecause she's the third wheel. So as
she said, you know, she'snot happy about this. She was kind
of hoping maybe she would get smoochedup. Maybe it's making her hot.

(16:56):
Maybe she's a voyeur. Gotta beweird. I don't notice how humans are,
baby, this is real life.This is real life. You're telling
us about Well, if you'll shutup, I'll say tell us about it.
Suddenly they heard a loud crack.Bertha said, someone shooting a gun.

(17:17):
This old, wily bark Ape stoodup, looked around, but didn't
hear anything else. He told thegirls it was not a gun shot,
but no. Sooner than he hadspoken, another shot was fired. Ape
started running down the path with Berthabehind him. See he was trying to
downplay it so he could keep tryingto smooch it. He's trying to get
some smooches. Yeah, Anna,sensing someone was behind her, turned around.

(17:41):
A stranger in the darkness grabbed Annaby the neck and threw her to
the ground. She began screaming.After a struggle, the assailant finally overpowered
Anna. She was beaten, strangled, and raped. Oh my god,
Abe had been shot, so ashe's running away, Bertha following him.

(18:02):
She finally catches up to him andrealizes he's been shot in the chest.
She starts crying for help until neighborsgather under a street light to tend to
him. Seconds later, Bertha runsback to tell Anna what happened, only
to find her body lying face downin a slight ravine next to a bridge,
not too far from where they hadbeen sitting. My god, what

(18:23):
a crazy scenario, you know,she could see Anna's face was beaten and
bruised. Crying out, Bertha gotthe attention of a nearby crowd, who
then called police. In a matterof minutes, a patrolman had arrived carrying
a lantern. By now, acrowd had gathered around Bertha and Anna.
Anna's clothing was ripped, her dressraised above her hips, and her face

(18:45):
was bleeding from multiple cuts and scratches. Bertha had to be pulled away from
her sister's body. I mean shewas hysterical. Well, I mean,
how could you not be. Oneminute, you're just kind of you know,
Bertha's probably like half you know,they're you know, dudes trying to
put the moves on her, onAnna and all that, and just the
next minute, your whole world's beentorn apart and he shot, She's been

(19:10):
raped and Mr strangled to death.I mean, gosh, in the enda's
dark and it's just a matter ofYeah, it doesn't seem like it's very
long at all, Like just amatter of a few minutes, right,
I mean, gosh, Now howtraumatic would that be. Ape's body was
loaded onto a trolley and ushered awayto Saint Elizabeth Hospital. In the meantime,
Mary Markowitz returned home from dinner.They had been having dinner with their

(19:33):
landlord, and she found that herdaughters had not returned home. Their curfew
was ten pm. They were supposedto be back from the park at ten.
She went to her sons, Harryand Jacob, and asked if they
would go fetch their sisters. Sothe two older boys, you know,
they're grown men, they don't liveat home anymore. But Mom's asking,
hey, will you go find yoursisters? So they go out trying to

(19:56):
search around in the dark, thinkingthey're gonna their sister's smoochin. We have
to remember the time period that,you know, everything's not illuminated at night.
There's basically darkness everywhere. So theMarkowitz brothers took a trolley to Lakeside
Park, which was about a thirtyminute ride. On the way, they
overheard a conversation about a shooting atMcKay Park. When the men arrived at

(20:18):
Lakeside Amusement Park, they walked overto McKay Park to join the crowd that
had gathered there. Harry Markowitz sawhis sister Bertha sitting alone in the police
wagon, and since the worst bynow, Jacob had elbowed his way down
to where a body was lying inthe weeds. He could see it was
his sister Anna. Bertha was takeninto custody while the brothers hurried back home

(20:41):
to tell their parents what had happened. Moses didn't want to upset his wife
Mary, so instead he joined Harryand Jacob on a trolley to head to
the police station. As Moses spokea little English, his sons did most
of the talking. Harry and Jacobwere placed under arrest immediately. Why.
I don't know, Dylan. It'sa strange turn of events, and this

(21:03):
is the last thing the parents probablyexpected, you know, you know,
I'm sure they were aggravated that theirdaughters weren't home at Stark outside. Well,
the mother, Mary doesn't even knowwhat's going on, right, No
one's told her, God, it'shappening. She has no idea what's happened.
No. Wow, So three ofthe Markowitz siblings sat in jail under
suspicion of murdering their sister. Thatdoesn't make sense at all. No,

(21:27):
they were held in separate areas,unable to communicate with one another. Shortly
after midnight, the coroner G.R. Schuster, and a newly elected
sheriff named John Bowes, who wasa former Dayton police officer and a court
bailiff, arrived at the crime scene. Donna Gilman's case was still open and
unsolved, which reflected poorly on thecorner and the sheriff's department. The sheriff

(21:48):
ordered Lakeside Park's private guards be stationedaround to protect the crime scene. Someone
suggested bringing in bloodhounds, but thesheriff said that could wait until morning,
not knowing that within a few minutesrain would begin and continue throughout the evening
or racing any sense the hounds mighthave detected. Man, Why and if
you have the resources available, whyin the world would you ever wait for

(22:14):
hound bloodhounds? Well, the sheriffwould be criticized for not acting quickly.
Yeah, I mean, especially giventhe circumstances of the attack and all you
know where it happened at, right, It's not like you're wondering where it
happened or if this is really thecrime scene. You know all these facts.
Think it just shows how ill preparedeven though they have had two murders.

(22:36):
Yeah, they still don't really knowhow to get a handle on investigating
or getting ConTroll of the crime scene, or what the next steps should be
now. And this could just beinexperienced from the new sheriff elect right.
Anna's clothing was wet, muddy,and torn. Her dress was pulled to
the waist, underwear pulled down,and her tights were shredded. Her face

(23:00):
was bruised as she had been hitby the assailant. The skin around her
neck had numerous cuts and tears.The results of fingernail cuts and choking her
hat was missing, as were afew undergarments. It appeared she had fought
her attacker, and they could notfind any bullet wounds on Anna's body.
I agree with an assumption that wasmade early on in this case that the

(23:22):
attacker is very strong individual. Immediatelythe press began drawing connections between the Gilman
case and Anna's murder. A mannamed Frank Allen, who lived within a
short distance of the crime scene,told authorities that he'd heard four gunshots.
One bullet was found lodged in thebeach tree where Anna had been sitting with
Cohen, and one was found ina fence near McKay Park. Two bullets

(23:48):
were lodged in abe Cohen's chest andstomach. Alan claimed to see a black
man in the vicinity that night,walking along the path, so that's like,
you know, we've had multiple witnessesreport seeing a black man in and
around the crime scenes. Cohen wasinterviewed as he was being prepped for surgery.
He claimed not to see the man'sface, but only noted that the

(24:11):
shooter was wearing a black suit ofclothing and a black hat. Surgeons removed
a thirty eight caliber bullet from Cohen'sback, the shoulder where it lodged after
passing through his nipple. Damn,the second bullet was lodged in his intestines.
Surgeons informed law enforcement that Coed wouldnot survive, They would be unable

(24:32):
to remove the bullet in his intestines, and that it was going to kill
him. Yeah, I would say, even nowadays, in the modern era,
that's probably a difficult surgery. WhenSchuster arrived at the Marko with Tome,
he realized that Moses had not informedhis wife about Anna's death. The
three siblings were not faring well injail at all. Bertha was refusing to

(24:55):
eat, Harry appeared to be onthe verge of a breakdown. Jacob was
the only sibling that seemed to kindof have control of himself while incarcerated.
And here's poor Moses. He goesdown to the police station with his sons,
you know, to kind of figureout, try to figure out what's
happening, and they throw them injail. He doesn't really speak the language

(25:15):
right, and he's probably just ata loss as to what to do.
And then he gets back home andrealizes his wife she doesn't even know,
doesn't even know that her daughter's beenkilled and her other children have been all
been put in jail. Yes,I mean, what the hell, what
a turn of events. And theydon't really understand English well enough ye know

(25:36):
why or why or to ask questions. And I'm sure they didn't. You
know, nowadays they have interpreters available, usually speak, you know, multiple
languages. You're you're more than likelysomeone can help you along. A little
bit. Back then, I wouldsay they don't even give it a second
thought. Harry didn't understand why theywere being held in their sister's murder.
He kept telling police, like,just go talk to Bertha and she can

(25:59):
clear things up, right, Andthat's a good point. Police thought,
well, he knows something that he'snot telling us because the sister, if
he knows, the sister knows somethingwise and he telling you know, right,
But he really didn't know. Andhe was saying, my sister was
with you, she should be ableto clear this up. Like nobody's really
understanding what's going on, mass confusion. The autopsy concluded that Anna had been

(26:23):
criminally assaulted, which meant raped.Crime reporters concluded that the same person who
had killed Donna Gilman was responsible forthe murder of Anna Markowitz and maybe Ada
Lance newspapers led readers to believe thata monster was loose in southwestern Ohio,
though the term serial killer had notbeen coined yet. Jacob and Harry Markowitz

(26:48):
were brought to the hospital so thata heavily sedated Cohen could say if either
man had shot him, which hedenied. But again, he's under anesthesia.
He's been in surgery, in terriblepain. And they're bringing these two
guys, like, hey, isthis the do too shot you? Who?
Is this a guy who you didn'tget a good look at in the
dark that shot you dressed all inblack? Is this him? And by

(27:12):
the way, you're probably gonna dieAnd he probably has like very limited,
if any pain meds in him.Oh my god, just a shit showeddn't
one. It's like alkyhol was allthey had for anesthetics back then. The
Markowitz family had to hire an attorneyto represent their three children. Theories emerged
from the Dayton community. One wasthat the brothers followed Abe Cohen to the

(27:34):
park with the sisters. Cohen rapedand strangled Anna, and seeing this,
the brother shot him. The othertheory was that Jacob had been responsible for
Anna's murder after catching her with Cohen, that the brother shot Cohen. Things
had gone too far with Anna andshe was accidentally killed, meaning that the

(27:56):
brother had like roughed her up aftercatching her in sight. Scenario with this
man, this is pure conjecture.Yes, I mean, my gosh,
but there was no real proof togo with these theories at all. This
is just what they out here sayingdoing. Jeez. The area surrounding McKay

(28:18):
Park became known in the press asdeath Lane. Someone carved a skull and
crossbones on the beach tree where Annaand Abe had sat together on the night
of the murder. Despite public proteststhat the Markowitz brothers and Bertha were guilty,
they were eventually released from custody withoutcharges being filed, in time to
attend their sister's funeral. The sheriffannounced, quote, we are satisfied that

(28:41):
there is not sufficient reason told themany longer. There wasn't sufficient reason to
take them into custody in the firstplace. Exactly. Oh gosh, this
is terrible. I mean, itreally is. I know, I mean,
it just makes no sense. Idon't know what they thought they were
accomplishing by taking the sister, who'salso a victim in the situation, yeah,

(29:04):
into custody, and the brothers,who were completely across the town and
had an alibi somehow are being accusedof murdering their sister. Now, I've
always thought about that. You know, when you're in a situation like this
and you have a loved one who'sbeen killed or you know, assaulted or
brutalized or whatever, and you comeunder the cloud of suspicion for whatever reason,

(29:26):
and now you've got to worry aboutthat at the same time while you're
trying to process and grieve for yourloved one. Yes, what a terrible
predicament. With no leads and nosuspects, the murders in Dayton and in
Cincinnati continue to produce fear among womenof the community, particularly those who worked
outside the home or traveled alone.A suspect emerged when Cassius Rush, a

(29:51):
trolley conductor, told detectives a blackman had been in the area of McCabe
Park on the night of the shooting. He was known as Hike, though
his real name was Leyton Hines.Hines worked at the at Atna Paper Company
and had no criminal record. Hecouldn't recall much of an alibi before the

(30:11):
evening of August eleventh, other thanhe had been at home with his family.
He had not been on the trolleyor near McKay park. Man.
If they asked me what I didlike yesterday or anything, I wouldn't have
any answers for him. They'll probablytake me straight into custody. Well,
while he was being interrogated, policereturned to his home and conducted a search
with his permission, and they locateda thirty eight caliber revolver, a nice

(30:36):
black suit, and pictures of nakedwhite women found inside a trunk. Oh
god, Heines, I'm sorry,Yeah, Hines, that's his last name.
Hike is like what people call him, but Hines is his last name.
He eventually admitted to killing Anna andAbe. Heines will later say he
was intimidated into falsely confessing to thecrime. Disregarding his statements, Heine was

(30:57):
still convicted of the double murder,but spared the death penalty. Later authorities
will admit they had doubts about hisconviction and he would eventually be released from
jail. Tom He's lucky to getthat back out, and we can't forget
there's pressure on everyone involved to solvethis case, and that is the perfect

(31:19):
atmosphere, the perfect environment for coercedconfessions. Yes January of nineteen oh nine,
a fifteen year old named Mary Forschnerhad joined hordes of children working in
factories. Their income, of course, needed to support their families. Mary
worked at Kling's cigar factory, whichwas an entry level job for many young

(31:41):
girls in Dayton at the time.Mary had been gifted a garnet ring by
her sisters for her birthday, whichwas expensive but not overly, so she
was really proud to show it offto her work friends. She kind of
went around the next day showing everyoneher new ring. Yeah, bragging.
I bet they talked about her whenshe left, like who she thinks she

(32:01):
is with that old rain, thatold big emerald rain. It's a garnet,
garnet. It's grain, ain't it? No? Oh, garnets are
like red, baby? Are theyred? Like a ruby? I'm pretty
sure they're like a red, Areyou sure? Well? I don't know,
look it up. Maybe it's blue. I don't know. Maybe it
looked like a topain. Maybe youstupid. I don't know. My damn

(32:22):
semi precious gems, damn it.Mary was described as a capable worker who
relished newfound independence. Though she didn'tmind the work at clings, Mary kept
an eye out for other jobs.She might be interested in working things that,
you know, might pay a littlebit more money, maybe get her
out of the cigar factory. Yeah, she was ambitious and thought she might

(32:42):
like a clerical job where she coulddress up nicely. It's called upward mobility,
and I appreciate everyone that has it. Mary came from a large,
blended family. Her biological father haddied when she was quite young. Her
mother had remarried a man who hadthree daughters from a marriage. Then they
added two more children. So therewere a lot of people living in this

(33:06):
house. Neighbors reported there were oftenfights over money and because there were eight
women living under one roof, whichproved to be trouble at times, because
the sister's fault over wash basins andthe one toilet. Yeah, I mean
I could I could see that.I can see that we've been We've went
from three bathrooms to one. Okay, so this is not something that's exclusive

(33:31):
to women. I missed my bathroomand I miss my uninterrupted bathroom time.
Okay, and I know you dotoo. Don't look at me like that.
You're the one that takes the longestto get ready or anything, because
intern at you, because you're theone, you're the problem. I don't

(33:51):
know what to say. You know, why can't I be properly coddled in
the bathroom? Even if I gotto coddle myself? Isn't that a word
coddled? Yeah? I want tobe coddled? Yeah? What you always
what? I'm firing you? Youcan't fire me? What you can because

(34:12):
I have no idea how to doany of the stuff you do. All
I do is sit here and thinkand say, dumb ship, you want
to be coddled in the bathroom.What does that even mean? I don't
know. But I be embraced whileyou're in the bathroom. Oh is that
what coddle? Is you want tobe? Uh? Maybe I'm coddling myself.

(34:34):
Are you sure you're still sober?Yeah? This is a this is
sober Dylan. Yeah, you won'tgo ahead and go on public record to
saying maybe you should use substances sometimes? Can I get back to my story
without you talking about being coddled?On the toilet or whatever you're over here
rambling about makes no sense, hasnothing to do with our story. Yes,

(34:55):
you can go ahead, but Iunderstand their pain on fighting over the
water. Okay, yeah, that'sall I'm saying. Well, eight women
under one room fighting over the washpace, and let's not forget that there.
You know they line up, sothere could be some bad moods going around
at certain times, you know whatI'm saying. Mood, But we know

(35:15):
that's true. Did make that upsure enough to put a woman in a
bad mood, baby, But thenI make her happy later when I leave.
You need to work some overtime,oh I wish. Now. Four
daughters were helping supplement income while theirstepfather worked long hours as a butcher.

(35:37):
Mary was tasked with going to theDayton Savings and Trust Company with nine dollars
to pay on the loan for propertiesher stepfather had purchased. Mary had done
this before and felt quite proud tobe trusted with such an important chore.
It would also give her the chanceto windows shop downtown and maybe explore a

(35:57):
job opportunity. Mary left that houseat six fifteen pm and walked three blocks
from their home to a trolley stopat Webster, where the city's boundary began.
Her mother told Mary to come homeright after making the deposit, as
she was worried about her young daughterbeing alone after dark, especially with you
know, everything that had been happening. Yeah, and you can't blame her.

(36:21):
Saturday night was a time to beseen in downtown Dayton, as young
men dressed handsomely and young women wereoften spotted wearing their best dresses. Mary
was wearing one of her nicest outfitsand a hat from her large collection.
She had a thing for hats,okay, and she spent a lot of
her salary on them, more thanshe would admit to anyone. So it's

(36:42):
like you and shoes. Yes,she loved hats. And there were actually
a few pictures of her where she'swearing large hats, some of these big
ornate hats. She loved a bighat, okay, Yeah, it was
her favorite. Three Robert left thebutcher shop at eight thirty pm, stopped
in for a haircut at the barbershop, which took longer than usual,

(37:02):
then had a beer at a localsaloon. Arriving home around ten pm,
he was greeted at the door byhis wife, asking if he had seen
Mary. Robert assured his wife thatMary had likely joined her sister Maggie at
the Buckeye Club, which was adance hall for young people downtown. Frederica,
Mary's mother, felt ill at ease. Mary was never late. It

(37:27):
was beginning to sleep outside as well. Just after midnight, Mary's sister Maggie
arrived home in a carriage with herdate and three other girls. Maggie told
her mother and Mary had not beenwith her at the Buckeye Club, but
she didn't seem to be too concernedabout her sister. I mean, you
know, she's just had a greattime. She's been out dancing, having
fun. So her head's not reallyin the game as far as worrying about

(37:51):
where her sister might be. No, no, and that's something parents,
do you know what I mean.Frederica woke her husband, Robert, who
rest quickly. He listened to Maggietell the story of the evening that Mary
had not yet come home and noone knew where she was. Now Robert
was troubled. He's got his wifeand stepdaughter telling him we've not seen Mary.

(38:15):
Yeah, and it's getting later andlater as they you know, to
discuss it. He tried to makesense of the situation, offering up some
different scenarios about where she might be, but of course none of them really
made sense. And he knew hewas at Haim, and he kind of
knew, like, this doesn't reallymake sense, but maybe she went't here.
Maybe she's doing this just trying to, you know, ease everyone's mind.

(38:38):
Finally, Maggie called a friend downthe street, who agreed to bring
a lantern and they could go searchfor Mary. Maggie and the friend return
saying they'd quote looked everywhere and couldnot find Mary. That's when Robert threw
on a coat and went to searchfor his stepdaughter. Half an hour later,
he returned saying he had had noluck. The trolleys were no longer

(38:59):
running, and perhaps Mary was strandeddowntown. Robert thought surely that if this
was the case, his stepdaughter wouldhave called. He decided to phone the
police and report her missing. However, teenagers who were out late on a
Saturday night didn't particularly interest the officerwho answered the phone, explaining, quote,
they all eventually come home. We'dnever heard that before. The officer

(39:22):
agreed to alert the night patrol aboutMary. So Robert grabs a lantern and
goes out searching once again. Hereturned to say he needed help, and
then went on to call several neighborhoodmen who might be able to spread out
and offer a better look in caseMary was injured. But you know,
they could cover more ground. Howis it the cops have literally been saying

(39:45):
that for centuries? Reckon in medievaltime, someone disappeared from the coustlor,
like, oh, they've probably runaway to another village. Yes, yeah,
what the hell, they'll eventually comeback home. You'll come back home
like they never do. Two friendshad become six with men asking what they

(40:06):
could do to help, So morepeople are joining the search party. By
now Maggie and her brother Peter hadjoined the party as well. The group
found out retracing the steps that Marywould have taken near Webster Street by the
Grafton Kennedy estate. A hat andglove were located. Robert recognized the hat.
None of the searchers spoke because everyonefeared what they might find next.

(40:30):
And like I said, Mary wasreally into hats and this was kind of
a was described as a big brownhat with a brass buckle on it,
right, Everyone that knows Mary prettydistinct hat that everyone that knows or knows
she loves the big hats. Yes, So the discovery of the hat is
making people nervous now because who knowswhat else they'll see. That's literally what

(40:52):
you just said. Yeah, yeah, still, thank you for the recap.
You're welcome. I like a macaw, a couple of you just breaking
down in a simple man's Yeah.I'm Joe six pack. I'm here to
let you know what Heather's really talkingabout. I'm like a big, fat,
sassy macaw. I just repeat whatmy wife says. I'm most ship

(41:14):
bird. Am I a ship bird? Yeah? Oh my gosh you I
think that to myself at least threetimes a day. No, I feel
like I could have maybe been aship bird and not hurting anyone else.
I just hurt myself, you know, financially doing dumb shit. Let me
shut up and let me finish this. Okay, see again, always thinking
about yourself. Now you're gonna tellme about the big hat you bought last

(41:37):
week. I can't. I don'twear big hats because I have a big
head. And that's only going tosentuate that aspect of my body. I
wish hats would make a comeback.Ye fancy hat. Oh well, church
lady, I love a big,fucking extravagant hat. They've never went completely
away. I mean some circles.I want a hat. It's got like

(41:57):
a bird. Maybe like a birdand some fruit. Really yeah, like
a marinette. You are like acenterpiece hat. Fuck? Yeah, like
a bell in it? Oh?Okay, has a bell? Yeah?
Like I can hear that bitch cominglike twinkles when I walk to Dan laying
bit. Yeah, jankly bitch iscoming in the house right now. Who

(42:20):
she think he is without that damnbell tower on her head? I know
that would be fucking awesome. Youcould have maybe a clock, oh a
clock built in Okay? Yeah,Tomo's time for getting another hat, That's
all I know. See, lookat you. You really want these big
hats, don't you. Yeah,I do ridiculous all right. So someone

(42:42):
in the crowd tells Robert to checkout a broken fence rail and some footprints
nearby. They follow the footprints toa barn on this property by this Grafton
Kennedy estate. This man, misterMorris, his farm kind of backed up
to the estate. So they areable to follow these footprints to a barn.

(43:02):
There's a gate. It's locked,but they're managed. They somehow managed
to open it and enter the barn. They find Mary lying face down on
the dirt floor of the stable,partially covered with sand, as if someone
had purposely tried to cover her bodyup. Oh my gosh. Her face,
lit by lantern, appeared to bepurple and bruised. Her jacket was

(43:25):
torn, her dress was a muddymess, and there appeared to be bloody
vomit by her mouth. Robert orderedsomeone to call the police. She was
still warm, but he knew shewasn't breathing, but she was warm to
the touch, and so there willbe questioned later about her time of death.
Well, I mean it had tobeen recently, you know. Well

(43:46):
the corner wants to say it happenedat like six to seven pm, and
this is, you know, aftermidnight, so oh yeah, and it's
it's it's like wintertime, yeah yeah, oh yeah. So a neighbor plotted
through the frozen mud three blocks awayto call the police. Maggie and Peter
ran home to tell their mother thatMary had quote been hurt real bad.

(44:07):
By now, nearly one hundred individualsgathered near the barn as police arrived.
Chief Aliback you may remember him fromThe Dayton Strangler Part one. He ordered
the crowd please move away from thebody. He told people, you know,
don't touch anything. He wanted tokind of keep the crime scene integrity,
since the first two crime scenes hadbeen contaminated. Yeah, quit taking

(44:31):
souvenirs. We need to figure outwho's killing these poor women. Well,
this warning was futile, as thecrowd had already trampled any footprints that might
be evident. They had already rifledthrough the barn for any evidence that might
be taken as a souvenir. Ohmy god, I was kidding. Well,
you're not funny. Done Well,these people are out of control with

(44:53):
their lucky lowin and rubberneck and theirdark tourism. Okay, I mean they
don't even let the body get cold. Literally before they're fucking up the crime
scene. Bruises on Mary's neck ora telltale sign of strangulation. By morning,
news of the murderer was a topheadline at the breakfast table. Mary's
purse had been located across the roadby a telephone pole, which eliminated robbery

(45:17):
as a motive. The police visitedthe Morris home, which was across the
street from the crime scene. Andas I mentioned, the Morris farm backed
up to this estate where her bodywas found. Right. Missus Morris heard
a scream the night before, sometimebetween six and seven pm. Mister Morris

(45:37):
thought it was one of their sonswho was back from delivering newspapers. When
he stepped outside, he saw aman leaning over something in the mud.
Mister Morris confronted the man, askinglike, what are you doing on my
property? And that's when the strangerthreatened to shoot the homeowner. Damn.
He was like, get back inthe house where I'm gonna shoot you,

(46:00):
to which I would answer, okay, mister Morris. He said he went
back in to grab a shotgun,and by the time he came back outside,
the man was gone. He didfind a bank book with cash kind
of enclosed in the bank book,and it was on his property, but
closer to the street like down wherehe saw this man. Okay, and

(46:24):
you know, so he went hegets the bank book. It's belonging to
Mary's parents. Remember she was goingto pay the banknote yeah. A search
of Morris's home led them to apair of muddy boots and corduroy pants,
so they arrested him. These copswill arrest anyone who tries to help.

(46:45):
They will. Mary's family also hada border who lived in their home named
Charles Snyder. He rented a roomand they're upstairs. A barber who had
been questioned had told police that Snyderhad come in to wash his hands on
the evening that Mary was murdered,and that they were bloody. Snyder's room

(47:05):
was littered with bottles and girly pictures, which the police noted. They placed
him under arrest because his alibi hadgaps in it. Okay, well,
I mean if you're by yourself,it's kind of hard to have firm alibi,
wouldn't you say. And he wasclaiming that he didn't have blood on
his hands, and the barber wasjust out to get him because of the

(47:27):
one time he cut his hair andhe said it looked like shit. I
guess the barber's like, one day, son, one day, I'll have
my come up. It's on you. So a woman named missus Chef came
forward and claimed that she'd gotten offa train car near the same spot where
they were able to find Mary's hat, gloves, purse that same area,

(47:49):
and that a man appeared out ofthe darkness. Afraid, she ran home
while the man chased her, Shewas able to get inside the house and
lock the door. Another woman namedMissus Powers was attacked by a man who
attempted to strangle her, but herhusband was able to fight off the attacker.
She was standing in the doorway ofher home when the bold perpetrator appeared

(48:10):
and seized her damn and then herhusband was able to run out of the
home and help see the sky away. So this all they believe happened within
just you know, probably minutes ofMary being attacked. Wow, so this
perpetrator likely tried to attack other womenthe same night. Three more attacks on

(48:31):
women happened within forty eight hours,right out in the open and in the
presence of men. So it wasclear that these women were targets of opportunity
and that the predator was prowling thestreets looking for a victim. So not
only did these two attacks happen aroundthe same time Mary was killed, but
within forty eight hours after more womenwere claiming to be attacked. Damn,

(48:54):
it's almost like a cooling off periodsshortening. The City of Dayton proposed better
life in the downtown area, statingthat the action would help the image of
the city. Women were urged toprotect themselves. There were calls for women
to keep boxes of pepper in theirpurses. Umbrellas were also considered weapons of
defense. Chief Alaback discouraged women fromcarrying guns. He was very worried that

(49:17):
hysterical women would be out with gunsin the street shooting random men. Look.
I know it's gonna sound crazy,but you just get you a little
bottle at missus dash and if hetries to grab you, you just blow
it in his eyes and say howyou like that? You some batch,
But don't get a gun. No, no, we'll hold on to have
guns. Hold on a saga.You can use your umbrella. I remember

(49:40):
one time they had it was anactive shooter seminar where I worked, and
uh, you know, they giveyou the whole you try to run.
If you can't run, you knowwhatever, and then the final things fight,
you know, and I'm just like, well, could we like maybe
get some more arms. Can wearm security that's hit on present already.

(50:01):
You know the system you already havein place, Can you bolster it?
Make it better, more effective?And they're like, no, no,
that's ridiculous. But you know,I was like, what are you supposed
to fight with? You know ifthey active shooter, like, well,
you know, you can grab likea fire extinguisher. And I was like,
what is this a Stevensagall movie?What the hell are you talking about?
Somebody's got a gun and I'm gonnahave a fire extinguisher, like spraying

(50:23):
it all over the place and shit, or throwing it at them. What
are you talking about as a weapon. If you're properly motivated doing well,
we know that you'll kill. You'llkill with anything in arms reach, if
it's me or them. Well,if it's me or you, I don't
have to like fight the guy orany of that. All I gotta do
is run faster from my coworker.Yeah. Yeah, it's like a bear's

(50:45):
chasing this. That's why you needto do cardio. Well back then i'd
have been the one dead all thatweightlifting, But you gotta do some cardio
doing I got I got wind,I get I got wind. You got
about four second. It's a goodWin, didn't you? I got thirty
five of all my life had thirtyseconds of greatness in me. But then

(51:05):
I might have to sit down andsmoke a cigarette. But I don't even
smoke cigarettes anymore. Man, thisis what clean living looks like. Are
we back to talking about you again? Yep? I guess let's talk about
the story instead. Well, I'mjust saying I don't understand why they don't
want women to have guns. Butnow I'm starting to, Oh, gosh,

(51:27):
you getting the history onics or something. You're catching it. I'm curious
if they can just like take outyour voice block? Can they remove so
I don't have to listen to youtalk? They do it to dogs.
Eighteen year old Elizabeth Fullhart live withher parents in Vandalia, Ohio. She
wanted out of her parents' house.John and Amelia full Heart were poor and

(51:47):
frail. They'd become kind of weak. So she's not only having to kind
of like do the work, butshe's having to take care of her parents
too, and she's just over it. That would be all hard life.
Lizzie had been working as a domesticservant known for her impeccable cleaning, but
she had recently gotten a job atthe Typica No cigar factory. Lizzie had

(52:09):
been dating a guy named Albert Wilkiewho lived in Dayton, and she thought
they would be married. She plannedto move to Dayton so she could get
a better job and eventually settle downand raise a family. On December twenty
fourth of nineteen oh eight, Lizzietold her mother she was planning to travel
to Dayton to spend the holidays withher aunt and uncle. While there,

(52:30):
she wanted to check out some jobopportunities. Working in the cigar factory.
Lizzie kind of kept a cough thatwould clear up on the weekends when she
wasn't working, but the second shereturned to the factory, she would become
sick again. Oh wow, likedust from the cigar factory. Well,
I could imagine it's probably like atobacco does she didn't like her hands were

(52:51):
always stained. Yeah, she smelledlike you know, tobacco and tobacco shit,
you know, and that can thatlike burns the hair off your arms.
You know. I've heard that.I've known people that picked tobacco back
in the day and they say it'sjust like I guess kind of that brown
stuff. My grandparents, great grandparentsgrew. I mean, they were tobacco

(53:13):
farmers. That was a big partof their cash crop. And you know,
so my grandma, my mom,my aunts, my uncles put the
baccer up, worked the tobacco,and so I've heard stories. Yeah,
it seems pretty, uh rough work, pretty rough, pretty rough work.
Yeah. Instead of staying with heraunt, Lizzie met Albert and they rented
a room together. So they spentChristmas Eve together. No one knew her

(53:37):
whereabouts. On Christmas Day, shearrived at her aunt's home. By Monday,
Lizzie was out searching for work.She called her mother at eight pm
to say she wasn't having much luckfinding a job. On Tuesday, December
twenty ninth, she went to afew job interviews, including and opening at
a rug factory. The manager toldher that business would not pick up for

(53:58):
another week and that she could returnthen and he would hire her. That
was a strip club, the rugfactory. Yeah, I be a great
name, her strip club, don'tyou think? Yes? Okay, the
rug factory. I like it.I like it too. When Lizzie left,
the manager noticed a tall gentleman witha long coat and a Derby hat

(54:20):
met her outside the gate. Lizzieplanned to fill out a job application and
then meet Al afterwards. When Alshowed up at her relative's home around eight
pm, Lizzie wasn't there. Hestayed until nine thirty pm and expressed that
he was worried about her before departing. On Wednesday, December thirtieth, Lizzie
still had not arrived home to Vandeliaas she had promised her parents, so

(54:45):
they were quite concerned. They eventuallycalled her aunt's house and learned that Lizzie
had not been back since the nightbefore. So she's been missing for you
know, almost two days. Damnright. They call police to report he
missing. Two weeks passed without wordfrom Lizzie. The consensus was that Lizzie

(55:05):
had eloped with her boyfriend Al.A few reports had come into police about
Lizzie Like. She had been spottedaround town with a tall woman and they
had gotten their shoes repaired, andthey were also seen going into what was
called a resort, which basically wasa brothel. Oh wow, yeah,

(55:27):
but the woman, you know,the tall woman, and then the one
that was supposedly Lizzy Like matched herdescription had on the same outfit Lizzie had
been wearing that her aunt and unclehad seen her in that kind of thing.
On February fifth, a father andson carpentry team were doing a remodel
job on a house on North Jefferson. They wanted to open a cistern outside

(55:47):
to get some water. When theydid, they found a body inside.
Oh my god. It was partiallywrapped in a gunnysack, the kind used
at the A and P. Coffeepurveyor and shipper, which was located just
across the alley. The body wasstuffed into the sack from head down to
the thighs. They could tell thebody was female by the clothing. Of

(56:09):
course, they puned the police immediately. Rumors began swirling about Lizzie's death,
including that she died from poisoning,an illegal abortion, a drug overdose suicide,
or that she had just fallen inwith a bad crowd. There was
no notable choking features on the neckto suggest she'd been strangled, and she
did not appear to have been beateneither. The skull had no injuries,

(56:32):
so just from looking at her,she looked normal, just deceased and in
this cistern, So no telltale signsof beatings and all that. Yeah,
like the other victims. Right.Lizzie's death certificate was signed with the exact

(56:52):
date unknown and exact cause of deathunknown, probably homicide. Inquest pending,
it said. Article in the journaldescribed the dead girl as quote a girl
whose love drove her to a recklessnesswhich ended in her death. She is
Dayton's latest lesson victim shamy. Theyjust said whatever they wanted back then,

(57:14):
didn't they. I mean, thisis almost worse than it is nowadays.
Gosh, they just make stuff upand it's like taking his fact by the
public. So in the days followingLizzie's body being discovered, two more attacks
were reported, with both victims beingable to scream for help and scare the
assailant away. It was determined thatLizzie did not die from poisoning. On

(57:37):
February twenty fifth, an official inquestbegan, though her cause of death was
still unannounced. Later they will sayon her death certificates that she died from
strangulation. Law enforcement tried to sayLizzie's murder was not directly linked to the
others, and this did seem towork. Quote. All major cities saw
murders committed. These murders were merelya major cities growing pains. One editorial

(58:01):
STADU, yeah, yeah, Imean, you know, as the city
gets bigger, more people move in, people's gonna get keeled. I mean,
it just it's just part of it. It really did not want to
group Lizzie's murder in with the others, because then they would have to admit
we do have a problem. Butmy gosh, there's been, you know,
quite a few of the other murders. I mean, at what point

(58:21):
is it just that one more thatis gonna tip the scales? I mean,
you should have already came to thatconclusions what I'm trying to say.
Law enforcement was divided, though,because some believe the murders were committed by
one person. A pattern seemed toshow a straight line when drawn through the
crime scenes. The line passing throughthe downtown area following the trolley lines to

(58:43):
McCabe and Lakeside Parks, So itwas almost as if somebody was murdering along
the trolley line. That's interesting.On Friday, February fourth of nineteen ten,
a woman named Bessie Stickford was foundbarely able to walk. She had
been attacked. The assailant had punchedBessie, held a knife to her throat,
choked her, and raped the womaninside a synagogue off of Jefferson Street.

(59:08):
Later, Bessie will describe the perpetratoras a tall black man with huge
hands. Damn. She had encounteredhim at the candy building where there was
a job opening. However, whenshe arrived, the office was vacant.
The janitor told her he would takeher to a synagogue where there was a
similar job being offered. This manwas a janitor, and he said he

(59:30):
also worked at the synagogue and thathe could take her there and introduce her
to the rabbi help her get ajob. Once they arrived, he violently
attacked her. What the hell do? She told police he had a set
of keys which he used to unlockthe synagogue door. A few phone calls
determined the janitor was a man namedSmith White. He went by Hick.

(59:52):
Oh my gosh was his nickname.Okay, Hick White, Hick White.
He was arrested at home, andwhen they went to arrest him, he
was found trying to hide behind theparlor stove. Okay, an extra large
set of handcuffs had to be usedbecause this guy had ginormous hands. So

(01:00:16):
this is a black dude with ginormoushands. Yeah, who thinks he can
hide behind a parlor stove, yes, which I'm gonna assume is a rather
small stove. Yeah. I'm imaginingit's probably like a woodstove, right,
Yeah, probably like one of thoselittle pot belly stoves. Yeah, that's
what I was thinking, And I'mlike, how are you going to hide
behind that? All they sees thesebig ass hands sticking out. Bessie was

(01:00:36):
able to identify her attacker, andWhite was charged with criminal assault. Frank,
Bessie's father, threatened to bring alynch mob back to take care of
White. Chief Aliback tried to alleviatethe man's anger by saying the justice system
would take care of Smith White.Now, don't do anything too crazy.
Yeah, So he's like, justhold on, we're going to take care

(01:00:59):
of this base. Back in Springfield, which was Bessie's hometown, Frank Stickford
tried to rally a mob to lynchWhite, with people saying that he had
gone insane, like he was runningthrough the streets, knocking on doors,
trying to rally people to go toDayton with him. Come on, let's
go. It's a lynch mob.Yeah, yeah, he's playing oce Cuban
shit, Like what's all. Theinvestigation uncovered that White worked at the Canby

(01:01:22):
Building as a janitor and had workedas a synagogue at the synagogue as well
as a janitor. The side doorat the synagogue was seventy five feet from
the cistern where Lizzie Fullher had beenfound the previous year. In nineteen hundred,
White was arrested for trying to pulla twelve year old girl through the
grandstand seats at the Montgomery Fairgrounds.Oh, I remember that we talked about

(01:01:45):
this in part one. Yeah.In nineteen oh two, he was arrested
for prying shutters off of property wherehe had seen a woman sitting alone on
a couch. Hick White's picture wasprinted in the newspaper, which provoked nearly
a dozen women to come forward andsay he had offered to help them find
a job when he tried to lurethem into the synagogue. Several of the

(01:02:06):
women since something was a miss andfled. White had worked as a train
car washer for the Cincinnati Hamilton DaytonRailroad line, where a German woman had
been sexually assaulted. Unfortunately, herfamily had left the country before she was
able to testify against him. Mentionedthis in Part one, It's All Coming

(01:02:27):
to Fruition. A man named WilliamGooks told police that White had insisted on
selling him a Cravenet coat, whichwas reportedly seen worn by this black man
on the trolley before the Donna Gilmanmurder and had been similarly described at the
Markowitz crime scene as well, thisspecific type of coat. So two witnesses,

(01:02:50):
two different crime scenes have seen thecoat, and then this other guy's
like, hey, he sold methis coat. You just randomly asked someone
they want to buy a coat.The week of April eighteenth, the grand
jury was held. More than onehundred and sixty individuals, including sixty women,
testified that Hick White had aggressively approachedtheir wives, girlfriends, or female

(01:03:12):
friends and offered help finding them ajob. Hick White pled not guilty for
criminally assaulting Bessie Stickford, but onMay seventh, he changed his plea to
guilty. He was sentenced to nineteenyears at hard labor, just nineteen years
for the criminal assault on Bessie Stickford. What yeah, but that's rape.

(01:03:32):
Basically, yeah, yeah, wellthat's not en Less than three years into
a sentence, he escaped the OhioPenitentiary. He was not found. Three
more women disappeared or died between nineteenfifteen and nineteen twenty one in Cincinnati while
White was on the loose. Aneleven year old was bludgeoned and raped,
while two nine year olds disappeared.On May eighth of nineteen twenty two,

(01:03:58):
a girlfriend with whom White had beenliving turned him into police after he left
her for another woman. That's whenhe was finally returned to prison. So
she's okay with everything he's done untilhe scorns her and then then two does
it? And how brazen you're runningfrom the law. You're with this lady
and then you're gonna leave her forsomebody else. Gosh all while you're on

(01:04:20):
the run. You out here,Dayton Black? What's your job? Black?
I'm an escape ee? What youjust okay with that? Instead of
looking over your shoulder? You're lookingfor love and all the wrong places.
But don't worry about it. Ain'tnobody gonna hurt you unless I do it.
Police were convinced it was White whohad murdered Lizzie Fulhart. He was

(01:04:41):
also suspected in the Donna Gilman,the Markowitz, and the Ada Lance murders.
Once White was imprisoned for the secondtime, the crimes dramatically dropped in
Cincinnati and Dayton. He was releasedin nineteen thirty one at the age of
seventy one and lived with his brotherin Madisonville, which was a suburb of
Cincinnati. And I should also mentionthat during the murders that were taking place

(01:05:04):
in Cincinnati, the coming Cumminsville Ripper, Yeah, murders, he had family
that lived in that area of Cincinnatiand traveled back and forth between Dayton and
Cincinnati. Dude, so this isthe guy you think? This is the
guy? I think possibly. Imean, it sounds like he's certainly a

(01:05:25):
sexual deviant and uh that he hasissues. I mean, it's one thing,
you know, especially about then beinga black man. You know how
that goes. Uh, you know, he could have been being railroaded.
But this seems like an awful lotof different cases, different witnesses in different
accounts, from husband's boyfriends who havescared this guy away, you know,

(01:05:47):
and stuff like that, and allthese different women claiming that he has approached
them either weirded them out, triedto, in their uh, in their
words, lure them somewhere right,and his very quick to act. The
one woman they did get to goto the synagogue with him for a quote

(01:06:08):
unquote job, he instantly attacked herlike he'd been waiting to do this to
someone if he could just get himwhere he wanted them. So I think
they may have. If he's notthe guy, he is one of the
guys, you know what I'm saying. He's certainly someone who doesn't mind.
He's certainly a predator. He's apredator and he doesn't mind hurting women,
which makes him a ship bird,a big old, big wing shit bird.

(01:06:33):
But it is interesting, as youmentioned the cooling off period, because
there were some you know, therewere some pretty significant periods of time that
passed without an attack. But thenit seems there at the end, whoever
the perpetrator was did start kind ofattacking, you know, didn't have such

(01:06:55):
a cooling off period. There was, the attacks were closer together. You
had three within a forty eight hourperiod. After one woman's found dead,
three more women are attacked. Soit definitely seems like the perpetrator was like
amping things up, right, theywere losing control to their dark passengers.
Yes, yeah, it's like TedBundy. So the Dayton strangler is an

(01:07:16):
unsolved case, but many believe thatWhite was responsible for the murders. Well,
it's one of those cases. Eitherthe true killer saw that they had
kind of penneded on someone and eithermoved away or stopped, which I'm not
sure that a person like this canjust stop, you know, and just
never do it again, or hetruly was the perpetrator. And then I

(01:07:42):
think you have to question whether theattacks in Cincinnati and Dayton were connected or
could it have been two separate killerswith the same mo Well, yeah,
I mean it's not blood, youknow, beating, brutalizing and strangling a
victim as your assault, raping themfor lack of a better word, God

(01:08:05):
is so terrible. It's not.It's not the most original thing. I
mean, it's been done a lotby a bunch of different people, you
know, and it's not that oddballspecific, you know, as far as
ritualistic or any kind of you know, taking souvenirs or doing some very specific

(01:08:25):
thing biting them in a certain place. It's not very Uh it's not as
what am I trying to you knowwhat I'm saying, Like, it doesn't
stick out, It doesn't stand outyes qualities, it doesn't have enough unique
qualities to be like a true mO because I guess I'm saying a lot
of monsters have done this very thingto women, should beat them and strangle

(01:08:49):
them and rape them, you knowwhat I'm saying. Well, yeah,
but I'm you know, it's notlike there's something so different and unique to
be like a calling card. Okay, do you sometimes you know what I
mean? When I don't need toknow what I think, I get a
daling, they get it, Youget it out there, you know what
I mean? Okay. A lotof people consider this case, or the

(01:09:14):
two cases kind of like America's Jackthe Ripper. Yeah, I could see
that because that had been such amajor story in the late eighteen hundreds and
so a lot of the headlines werecalling it like Dayton's Jack, Everybody's Jack.
Yeah, I mean, that's that'sgot to be one of the most
notorious crimes ever, maybe top three, because every area, no matter the

(01:09:38):
time period or decade, has hadyou know, coined to someone of the
Ripper. Right, yeah, gosh, all right, Dylan, Well,
that has been part two of theDayton Strangler. Thanks for sitting down with
me to discuss well, thanks forhaving me and dealing with me. You
know what I'm saying. Don't forgetto stop by our merch store. We'll

(01:10:00):
have plenty of awesome things for youthere. Check it out. I'm gonna
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(01:10:21):
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(01:10:41):
and matter of fact, I believewe might lay one down next. Thank
you, Beth, Buffy and fancyPants. I was trying I can remember
fancy Pants and Buffy. I justBeth, no offense, I couldn't remember
you. Thank you, Beth,Buffy and fancy Pants and yeah, Heather's
a cranking out some great content hintand uh for just exclusively for the patrons.

(01:11:02):
So yeah, thank you very much, Thank you, Mushma bitch.
I'm tired, Bye doing Bye,