August 10, 2025 • 35 mins
Martin Willis talks with Nick Pope about a startling question: If we mishandled COVID-19, can we handle UFO Disclosure? From lab leak debates to political divides, the pandemic exposed flaws in how governments manage sudden, world-changing events. Using his insider experience as a government UAP investigator, Nick Pope explores what this means for the moment humanity faces the truth about UFOs—and why it might not go smoothly.
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Martin Willis, Host Podcast UFO Est. 2011 Shows Every Tuesday & Thursday
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Martin Willis, Host Podcast UFO Est. 2011 Shows Every Tuesday & Thursday
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
H m.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
H Nick. It's great to have you back again, to
be back on and always good to see you in person.
And here we are in contact in the desert, as
you can see in the background. H So were you
here last? Have you been here to this before?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yes, I think I've been to letter every contact in
the desert since it's started, except one side. We have
already accepted some other conference in Europe. Obviously I couldn't
yeah that commitment. So yeah, now compact in the desert.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
No, they getting really quick, and yeah, they asked me pretty.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Soon after the one finishes to do the next.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
And of course it's pretty much in a fixed placesly calendar.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So yeah, I know it's.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Well, I think I heard you say this is like
the do you say it was like the Burning Man
of UFO cover? What did you say? The rock concert?
I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The woodstock.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
The woodstock, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I not take any credit for that. It was some
journalists ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I came with that. Oh I see you stop.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, it's useful to describe it, and it is. I mean,
it is huge ause you know, yeah, I don't know
filming speakers, they are like fifty one hundred.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
And there's like six going at the same time. You
got to choose, pick and choose who you want to see.
And I can't imagine what it would be to put
on something like this. I mean, having put on some
type of events in the past myself. This is just crazy.
But what do you think someone from England? What do
you think of this beautiful landscape here? Isn't it amazing?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Oh? I want it?
Speaker 5 (01:54):
But of course I've lived in the US now yes twelve,
and I live in You saw it.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So it's not that much different.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
It's actually quite similar. I'd won very few people here
in idiot Wales Spraint, however, you describe where we are,
for whom it's probably in as hot at home as
it is here.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, I think it was ninety seven in Tuson yesterday
and maybe yes, wow, worldly equivalent. I'm used to it.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, as this is a little side thing, but I
thought it'd be fun to announce this just a few
minutes away from here. I did MERV. Griffin's estate appraisal
of all his properties. But it has a beautiful had
a beautiful Moroccan style ranch, fifty two thousand square foot
home only about ten or fifteen minutes from here, and
(02:47):
I just fell in love with the area. I spent
some time there, so but it's just just gorgeous people,
don't you know. You wouldn't know it's such a gem
unless you actually visited here.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
But I mean, so many celebrities from the Golden.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Europe, that's right, the radit hags yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
well yep, sa GENI try yeah, carry grands. Yeah yeah.
You can understand why the winter here, you know. And
but anyway, so the I guess I want to ask you,
first of all, what are you doing your talk on here?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Well, I'm bean to upset everyone with oh goods. It's
a very controversial and completely new presentation, and it stems
from a throwaway remark that I may in a totally
different presentation last year. And I are saying, yeah, are
we ready for disclosure and conventional wisdom, particularation like this courses? Yes,
(03:47):
we are breed on Yeah, And I said, imagine in
j twelve or whoever we gave keepers of the secret,
if indeed there is the secret and the gates, imagine
I'm sitting around the table saying, okay, it's twenty three five,
(04:07):
shall we disclose, and all the people say, yeah, yeah, Okay,
it's about time. It's been eighty years, let's just get
it back. And then somebody pipes up and says, well,
wait a minute, do we have a good model for
how it's going to go down? And everyone kind of
looks blank, and then the person pushes the point home
(04:29):
and says, well, do we have an example of something
else that came suddenly and unexpectedly from left field and
upended everyone's lives? And someone's going to put their hang
up and say, well, here, I'm telling it, And then
the person's going to go and how's that go? Then
the amount will be oh yeah. And so my point
(04:53):
that the presentation the title.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
Is Disclosure Lessons from the Pandemic, and my central thesis
is that because we got the response to COVID so wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
In a situation where we had contingency plans, very global pandemic,
and yet pretty much all the big courts were wrong,
the authorities bet the farm, and all sorts of things
that didn't work for a setsible liberties. Fact that leads
to the generation people descended into screaming hysteria over vaccines
(05:30):
and masks and lockdowns. And they've shut down the world.
If we give that for a global pandemic which was
hardly new or I anticipated, what the heck is going
to happen if we suddenly disclose aliens or a non
Cuban intelligence, particularly if it comes with a dark tide.
(05:54):
So I am going to be explaining now because I've
now either now in the rear view mirror, people forget
how crazy those were. One that lived, no one that
didn't live through it. We'll haven't believe it.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
That's right. You know, I said a number of times,
we'll think of life as before the pandemic and after
the pandemic. That's kind of how we judge things or
how like, oh, do you remember what it was like before,
you know, when people actually worked in offices and they
looked at and now it's like they just swarmed all
over the country in different you know, locations, real estate
(06:34):
went up in rural areas. You know, there's a lot
of things that changed. But but I know what you're
also talking about, like closing of schools and things like that.
I'm wondering if it would be that dramatic though, you know,
because we seem to be like hinting along it seems
like the general public may have an idea. But again
(06:55):
a lot of people don't pay attention to this type
of niche either, so they may be blind insided, like
all of a sudden, if we see there's life, you
know that we've been visited by and we're in an
anto chamber here.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I mean, of course, if I say, you know who's
renting with this twosure, are you at both aren't fence?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
But this is not indicative of society. It's not representative
really in any way. People here are deep specialists, they're
passionate about it, knowledgeable about it. But the average person.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
In the street I think might well descend into the
kind of screaming history. And we saw during COVID with
literally I mean people you know, dwagged on ver aplane.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
It's a two year old put a man skill, keep
one on. Yeah, you know, children sent clone from school
when they were statistically more likely to die in a
cart bridge and the way to school of COVID at
school and people forget all this.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, and so I think this is here to be
the central thesis.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But I'm going to use it. I'm going to expand
it to me a couple of mother points which you're
all kind of bleed into each other.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
One is that the government can take away your freedoms
very very quickly if.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
People are angry and scared.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
That's right.
Speaker 8 (08:23):
We saw it after nine eleven, and then we had
the pat and we saw it with COVID when when
were were asonine.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Kind of statements during the rounds like your freedoms doesn't
matter in a pandemic, when my point is that's when
they matter almost more than any other time, because that's
precisely when you're overreaches and steps into your light. So
I'm drawing this parallel between COVID and disclosure in terms
(08:59):
of government control, fear and anger, manipulation, propaganda, and also
the idea that some conspiracies and conspiracy theories to them
be true.
Speaker 9 (09:16):
Case in point, Loudly, the accepted wisdom for years, a
couple of years during the point of the pandemic was
that Loudly it was a crazy conspiracy theory, just put
down a quare handful of.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Right wing maga jobs and the web market theory.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
If you even kind of said Landly on old Twitter,
you would be shadowed by our own It would be
kind of false information, medical misinformation. You would be garon
vo to all of them.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
And now, of course it is truly the accepted position
of the ux saliment that it was a lately. And
if you go into the difference intelligence agencies when they
last published anything, some said lightly, some said natural, pseudoptic emergence.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Some word sure. But again the truth tends to be
more compact and nuanced them. Then we might lead from
very codized social media. So, yeah, I'm new, my up
sent a few people.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I'm sure that's okay. Now you just brought up the
word social media. Now that is where it just things
just get carried away, no matter what it is. And
like you said, conspiracies, and you know, there's great division
on everything that I attribute to social media because it
just seems like someone will have an opinion they're right
(10:53):
in their mind, and if you don't buy it, then
you're wrong. You know that that type of thing. And
so I think if we all of a sudden we
found out that we are being visited by a non
human intelligence and it was all documented and everything, it's
gonna be a lot of people that won't believe that,
no matter what is said, no matter who says it.
So it's gonna be I think it's gonna be like
(11:13):
a slow you know, even if there's evidence. I'll just
give you a case some point. And I mentioned this
recently on one of my shows. I was very busy
in the auction business living in Maine, you know, several
years ago when the alien autopsy film came out. Now
that was on the news. I'm walking through. I'm super busy.
I walked through the living room. There it is on
(11:34):
the TV. I stop and I wasn't into UFOs at
the time. I never had a sighting at that point.
So I stop and I look at it, and I go,
oh my god, isn't that something? Okay? Now back to work,
you know, And I'm wondering how many people might do
that instead, like.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh my, but those people will be driven out because
you know, since they'll be flat ones, it's loud ones.
You need to watch out.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
True.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
What we will see is the politicization of all this. Sure,
and just as we saw with camera, so imagine President
Trump the Nobel Office saying, my fellow Americans, people of
the world, we are not alone. A lot of the
very vocal Democrats will immediately condemn it. As faith news.
(12:24):
Even if they do believe it, they will think the
truth that's been manipulated, twisted for political ends. I'm not
saying that the Republicans willn't try to get benefit from
it themselves anyway. But then fast forward to when the
Democrats next get in, it's a Democratic president that announces disclosure,
(12:50):
then the.
Speaker 10 (12:50):
Republicans or a lot Yes, I leave it, and you're right,
the quiet ones will just walk on by, but the
keyboard warriors will will be each other's throats.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Of course, in all of this we should not forget
that a lot of this division has been deliberately stirred up.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Structuring China absolutely part of pan grid warfare. There's a
total or near total ignorance firstly about what hybrid warfare
is and secondly how backing individually influences and interest groups
(13:32):
on social media is something that is deliberately done. And
people people say, oh, do you mean, for example, that
China is stirring things up by supporting the transsu to
pick one, very polarized, they are support me. Both sides
(13:54):
of that are given to serve the plot. They probably
don't care either way, but they see that it's very
even why invite people and they fun people both sides.
Same with Russia.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, it's just crazy. I know what the Lincoln's famous saying.
I'm sure you heard A divided house will fall or
something like that. I mean it's teraphrasing. Yeah, a house
divided will fall.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
A house divided against itself, you won't spend That's it?
Is it the other way around?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It's yeah, but the gist of it as yes, it
weakens us, you know, I mean these things, But anyway,
I want to ask you, how do you because I've
been to now three or four maybe even more of
your talks in person, and I really really enjoy them,
all so well thought out, and I want to ask you,
(14:46):
how do you come up with these topics that because
every one of them that I've listened to, and I'm
mostly ninety nine percent I'm agreeing with everything you say
when you're doing these things, So, but how do you
come up with the ideas?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I try to find questions that aren't generally being asked,
or points of view that are not generally explored.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I mean, anyone can try to an event like this
and give a general talk about UFOs or in aduction's
crop service.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I like to go deep and narrow and take a
very specific position and really think it through. So last
year it was the idea that disclosure comes to the
dark side, running through what that dark side might be.
This year it is the idea that we actually in
(15:43):
COVID do have probably the beast single.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Model of how society would react to disclosure, in that
it is a big, unanticipated, left field event.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
That will deeply, in profoundly everyone lives. We don't know
exactly now, but that makes it the best small and
that yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, So I just take the position like.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Mans and think, well, let's play the wine.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Get Yeah.
Speaker 10 (16:14):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's a really great way to come up with it.
And when it comes to the pandemic, I I kind
of give a break to whatever it is people are saying, oh,
you know, they shouldn't have done they shouldn't have done that,
because we were even though we did have like a playbook,
as you mentioned, we're still in the uncharged waters. We
didn't know exactly how this thing was going to act.
(16:35):
So I kind of give a break to the people.
I do think people went too far, and a lot
of it, especially the children and all that, But I
also give them a break because it was you know,
they were they didn't know what to do, and I
get that, I give them a break for the month.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Often not so much. He is white.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
A couple of things, honestly, Yeah, right at the there
was a lot that we didn't know the rate, the
case fatality ratio, all those different pieces of data.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But it very quickly did become clear that almost all
of the fatalities were at the our bringing of the spectrum.
And I mean, you know it was. This is part
of the problem, of course, with censorship.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
It was very difficult to find if you searched on
more into the Median age OVID death right and in many.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Western countries the antswer turns out to eat.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
And they had more morbidity problems as well, a lot
of them did.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And yet so very quickly it should have been a way,
it should have been obvious that it was only really
affecting the elderly, people with pre existing health conditions and
people with obesity, and very often all of those states.
Now I get a huge trouble for this, but I
(18:07):
mean not you know, throwing insults at people and pointing
the fact. I'm saying, if you've ever watched the early
obesie person starting to climb the stairs.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
You will understand. Everyone will understand why they will be
disportionately affected by our restitutions, right, I mean, it's just
common sense. But we weren't aware to have that conversation. Yeah,
because of a sort of politically correct sension with fat shape. Yeah. Oh,
we shouldn't do that, right, Yeah, how many a national
(18:41):
conversation about that would have enabled people to maybe take action.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
To do the one thing that they could have done
to leverage the odds, or one of a handful of
things to leverage the odds, banking their vapor natural immunity
another one. And yeah, again it was treated as the
right way, dogless, and so I think, yeah, I'll give
you people a break for the first month.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
But yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
After that it should have been obvious who was affected
and who wasn't. And then we should have basically shielded
those people at risk and basically in the great part
into decoration and basically said, you know, let's let's let
(19:31):
it because the point is that it was so transmissible,
was never any stopping it. Yeah, And that being the case,
the best way to deal with that, the best way
to accelerate. The almost inevitable mutation to less leap would
have been just you know, to let it spread. Now
(19:56):
this was dishonestly portrayed in the media and let it
rip when when actually a great decoration. But they there
we are, I mean, yeah, this this is you still
divides people. So I'm not trying. I'm not trying to
give up popular at all. And that goes to your
(20:17):
other point about how do we can work with these ideas.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Anyone can give a talk that's going to ingratiate themselves
with the audience. Yes, that's easy because the audience a
lot of people went lead them all and Steve Basett
and it's it's a friendly crowd.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
It's a friendly crowd for me too. But I am
deliberately going to upset people plause that's the only way
to get some really interesting and important issues is to
challenge people.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yea, I will say, you know, I agree with a
lot of what you're saying, but I also you know,
I know someone pretty well who passed away and he
didn't get the vaccine, and he passed away and he
was in good shape, and you know, so there are
those outliers, but a high percentage are what you were saying.
They had other issues and that's why they passed away.
(21:11):
But but there were you know, just to be clear,
there were some people that you know, absolutely there was
a thirty year old mother, you know that.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
You know, don't anyone is saying that everyone who dyed was.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Eighty bucks, But the median age in many western countries
was around about eighty.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And when the median age of COVID deaths it's higher
than the average life expectancy, then then it should be
telling as some about the ratio who's at rice and
you know you can.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
It's always emotive because you could say, well, young people
dying every day in true incidents, you know, how are
we get back the Well, let's.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Let's mandate seats, let's let's build a strong coasts. And
that's fine. But with COVID, we had this kind of
absolutism that people were trying to get down to zero
and and you know, the equivalent there.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Would be seeing let's find mok. Yeah then yeah, sure
if you had been milk cop those.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
The young people will die. But the costs, you know,
just in terms of economic costs, social costs and whatever
onto hight nobody would do that.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And yeah, that's what we did with COVID.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, you know, there was a thing that came up,
I don't know, maybe it was five or six years
ago where they were thinking that, you know, the cell
phone was causing brain tumors, and would you give up
your cell phone if you knew you were going to
die of a brain tumor? And most of the people said,
I don't think so that they wouldn't, you know, they
didn't want to give up the convenience. I'll hold it
away from me or something.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
They would say, you know, and choose their own level
of risk.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yes, And and this this is why one of the
lilitariats and jury pandemic was choose your own fear.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Don't let the government choose your.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Fear for you.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And yet we let the old doormis choose off for us.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That's something that's really at the thought. So I'd like
to tell you quickly about I had a professor on
a couple of weeks ago. It was fascinating guy. His
name is Rob Hanson and he's a stattician, but he
also he worked for Noah. He was He's got an
amazing background award winning and he has uh six thousand
(23:41):
citations that he's written in white papers and everything really interesting,
really interesting. He thinks, his thoughts, thought experiment is that
we're being sort of controlled by uh not to expand out,
by some alien species that's just beyond our where we
can see him. But he thinks with you know, the UFOs.
(24:02):
He goes into the county, thinks, you know, there's something
to the UFOs. It's possible, this, impossible, that, and he
goes all through that. I just wanted to have you
ever heard of any type of theory in that we're
being like watched and possibly controlled?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Oh?
Speaker 11 (24:17):
Yeah, absolutely, And the idea there are various lapping theories,
but this, for example, the simulation theory and the various.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Variations on simulation theory, which.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Would tlead with this idea that holds the actually there
are secal civilizations that would be obvious to us if
we can see them.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
But what would be presented with is a simulation that
the universe as we perceive it is not how it
actually is. So I think those those ideas are similar.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's fascinating. I mean it's a
fascinating theory and you know, some people think that they're
the ghosts are related. Everything's related in some type of way.
And so I'm just going to ask you this, Uh,
do you think there's you know, the shock LA's theory
is that there's that's a lot of different things going on.
(25:18):
Do you kind of agree with that? Like interdimensional possibly
and possibly time travels possibly? Uh, you know, all these
different type of theories. Do you think that they're all
possibilities or some of it is all possible?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I think they are. And of course they're all mutually exclusive.
So and I often say that people, you know, it's
not only they're all yeah, you can have extraterrestrial visitation
and travels through the future and intrusion from all the
mad shoots and all sorts of other things. I mean,
(25:55):
it's it's not like, you know one you don't have
the other.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Right. Here's another question that people ask me that I'd
just like to get your opinion on. They'll say, well, okay,
you know, I saw UFO and the one that I
my citing did not have lights on it, but it
had an overall like a blue glow on it. But
still a lot of people say, why on earth do
they have lights.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
So I lead this all the time and I say, well,
look it's you know, people think they'd be para answering
that question, but actually it can kind of the question
itself contains a very unpha percent of assumption, which is
that the lights we see on UFOs are length the
lights we see on the aircraft, i e. They are
(26:39):
anticleision liliots and navigation lines and peace like that, whereas
the lions could be the bank one up of the
propulsion system and the lights couldn't signify you know, information,
and really they could be tanceruptive. We don't know. Yeah,
(27:00):
the lights are on the UFOs, but it's very unlike
they are any lots.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, yeah, I would say, I would say now, last
time that you were actually on my show, it was
a great talk. When we were talking, I was during
the drone flap, if you recall from what I understand,
and your Mark Antonio joined us, where all three of
us were on it's still according to some people, it's
still ongoing. So my question is what do you think
(27:31):
of the FAA's declaration that, oh, yes we know these
were being tested, when previously they said we have no
idea what they are, what do you think of that.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, I think there's a bit of bureaucratic confusion. I mean,
want to fall the research drive is, you know, the grabs.
I think the new administration just wanted this because that
Trump got asked about it literally on the first day
(28:04):
of the second term in the overal office. So somebody
did you see it?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
And it was champ a question, you know, hew, you
went about drones and the President said, well, I'll get
an answer for you within twenty four hours.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And they think they were then under such pressure that
they kind of did that theme whereby it's like, Okay,
some of the drones are ply cobbyist drones and commercial
drones and all all sorts, and then they presented them
as the answer, whereas I think everyone always accepted that, yeah,
(28:39):
sure some of them are drones, but some are and
what about those?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah. And the problem with that is that this whole
question is just really part of the way in UAP debate.
And the problem with the UAP issue at the moment
in government.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
Is that we are in a bit of a the
four point time because House Oversight Committee has been effectively
leading on this in Congress, I mean, other committees are involved.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Send it on Services Committee, but generally it's an House
Oak Saying Committee and they very much kind of bet
the farm or Lewis all lows and that's fine as
long as they can come up with the goods and
then the problems. But now we have the Task Force
(29:32):
on the Decrassification of Federal Secrets, and obviously that's headed
up by Anolina Luna who also said someone else over
Saying Committee Chance is involved a number of other people,
so there's there's a little bit of bureaucratic overlap and
(29:53):
confusion about what exactly is.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Going to happen going forward. And this is this is
put to the drone because of course this is really
where this is the forum in which it.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Should be discussed. And yet at the moment we're not
we're not really quite sure whether the House was like
Mania is, you know, take things for where they can
sit back and let the task Force do it.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Howld or two again we interface and so it's it's
all really frustrating that mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Right. So the last question I'd like to ask you is,
I don't know if you watched any of the videos
with like Matthew Brown about Amatulet constellation and a few
other people. So I'm just I get And then there's
the skywatchers I think they're called. So it's like there's
(30:47):
like a new movement, new blood into us if you will,
into the whole UFO topic. Do you think it's any
of that is possibly moving the needle forward? Or do
you think it's some more of this?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I think it is moving. On the other hand, it's
it's complicating the situation. Even people that keep track on it,
I can't push to to keep up with Oh wait,
which which whistle? Though it was this was this this
intelligence agency? That intelligence agency? Has this person testified? Yet?
(31:25):
Are they going to testify who else is going through?
For so? I think it is going to be confusing.
I think that Jay's Tracken's upcoming book should help because
I hope that he will kind of make it clear
who was only you ain't he tasked force with him?
(31:47):
And who wasn't.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And I mean, obviously we know that they've brushed Watts,
you like they brushed warts the person who Jay Toll.
Go to all the different parts of the military and
the indulgence community, Go find who knows what, Go find
who the point man is and make sure that we
(32:10):
have a representative in every agency, which is wine, the
no Golts and many at least.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
People from four because people are the same. Yeah, I was,
I was on the top. I was the representative from
from you you know this, three letter agents, three latter agents.
So I hope Jay's look will help.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
I think it's still going through dop sir, thanks getting
for its security variance, But I am I have not
spoken to Jane for a while.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I know he's in the recent the film that's coming
out at some point that people are talking about, and
I have a friend that watched that in Texas at
the what's it called, uh.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
So the film festival. Yeah, and then this is the
age of disclosure.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Of this, yes, so I understand Jay makes some revelations
in that film too, which will be interesting to see. Now.
I've been told this by a filmmaker, and I asked
James Fox about it. He's he heard a rumor two
that Amazon is no longer going to be featuring any
type of UFO films. I don't know if you've heard
that or not, but that would I don't understand what
(33:10):
that's about that, which I think is pretty strange.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, I mean, at the moment, I don't think that's
true because I think you ain't got a couple of
upcoming films or one early recent one, which is I
think on it and Amazon. On the other hand, there
are so many of these other streaming platforms around, whether
(33:33):
it's it's iTunes or qub or Vimeo or or whatever
it is. I mean, if you make a film, it's
available somewhere, yes, but that's sad. Yeah, it will be
disappointed if Amazon get out of that game. And I
don't know why they didn't do that. It is content absolutely,
(33:55):
and unless something violates quantent policy, Yeah, I don't see
why why they will do that. You know, they may
maybe the rumor is more that they're not fund their
own make their own films, yeah, say Netflix sign it
(34:16):
off like basically doing DVDs. Oh yeah, but then got
into making their own content, yes, and so maybe it's
maybe it's more question generating the content.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
That very well could be because I know that's what
Netflix did decide on when it came to something like
any type of series. They wanted to create their own
series and not take one that was already in the
can you know. According to another filmmaker, But anyway, Nick,
has been such a pleasure, and I'll be seeing you
again in a couple of days up at Pride Bush.
(34:54):
But thank you so much. It's been a lot of fun.
I've always always enjoy our conversations. Thank you all right,
H m.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
H Nick. It's great to have you back again, to
be back on and always good to see you in person.
And here we are in contact in the desert, as
you can see in the background. H So were you
here last? Have you been here to this before?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yes, I think I've been to letter every contact in
the desert since it's started, except one side. We have
already accepted some other conference in Europe. Obviously I couldn't
yeah that commitment. So yeah, now compact in the desert.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
No, they getting really quick, and yeah, they asked me pretty.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Soon after the one finishes to do the next.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
And of course it's pretty much in a fixed placesly calendar.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So yeah, I know it's.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Well, I think I heard you say this is like
the do you say it was like the Burning Man
of UFO cover? What did you say? The rock concert?
I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The woodstock.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
The woodstock, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I not take any credit for that. It was some
journalists ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I came with that. Oh I see you stop.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, it's useful to describe it, and it is. I mean,
it is huge ause you know, yeah, I don't know
filming speakers, they are like fifty one hundred.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
And there's like six going at the same time. You
got to choose, pick and choose who you want to see.
And I can't imagine what it would be to put
on something like this. I mean, having put on some
type of events in the past myself. This is just crazy.
But what do you think someone from England? What do
you think of this beautiful landscape here? Isn't it amazing?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Oh? I want it?
Speaker 5 (01:54):
But of course I've lived in the US now yes twelve,
and I live in You saw it.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So it's not that much different.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
It's actually quite similar. I'd won very few people here
in idiot Wales Spraint, however, you describe where we are,
for whom it's probably in as hot at home as
it is here.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, I think it was ninety seven in Tuson yesterday
and maybe yes, wow, worldly equivalent. I'm used to it.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, as this is a little side thing, but I
thought it'd be fun to announce this just a few
minutes away from here. I did MERV. Griffin's estate appraisal
of all his properties. But it has a beautiful had
a beautiful Moroccan style ranch, fifty two thousand square foot
home only about ten or fifteen minutes from here, and
(02:47):
I just fell in love with the area. I spent
some time there, so but it's just just gorgeous people,
don't you know. You wouldn't know it's such a gem
unless you actually visited here.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
But I mean, so many celebrities from the Golden.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Europe, that's right, the radit hags yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
well yep, sa GENI try yeah, carry grands. Yeah yeah.
You can understand why the winter here, you know. And
but anyway, so the I guess I want to ask you,
first of all, what are you doing your talk on here?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Well, I'm bean to upset everyone with oh goods. It's
a very controversial and completely new presentation, and it stems
from a throwaway remark that I may in a totally
different presentation last year. And I are saying, yeah, are
we ready for disclosure and conventional wisdom, particularation like this courses? Yes,
(03:47):
we are breed on Yeah, And I said, imagine in
j twelve or whoever we gave keepers of the secret,
if indeed there is the secret and the gates, imagine
I'm sitting around the table saying, okay, it's twenty three five,
(04:07):
shall we disclose, and all the people say, yeah, yeah, Okay,
it's about time. It's been eighty years, let's just get
it back. And then somebody pipes up and says, well,
wait a minute, do we have a good model for
how it's going to go down? And everyone kind of
looks blank, and then the person pushes the point home
(04:29):
and says, well, do we have an example of something
else that came suddenly and unexpectedly from left field and
upended everyone's lives? And someone's going to put their hang
up and say, well, here, I'm telling it, And then
the person's going to go and how's that go? Then
the amount will be oh yeah. And so my point
(04:53):
that the presentation the title.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
Is Disclosure Lessons from the Pandemic, and my central thesis
is that because we got the response to COVID so wrong.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
In a situation where we had contingency plans, very global pandemic,
and yet pretty much all the big courts were wrong,
the authorities bet the farm, and all sorts of things
that didn't work for a setsible liberties. Fact that leads
to the generation people descended into screaming hysteria over vaccines
(05:30):
and masks and lockdowns. And they've shut down the world.
If we give that for a global pandemic which was
hardly new or I anticipated, what the heck is going
to happen if we suddenly disclose aliens or a non
Cuban intelligence, particularly if it comes with a dark tide.
(05:54):
So I am going to be explaining now because I've
now either now in the rear view mirror, people forget
how crazy those were. One that lived, no one that
didn't live through it. We'll haven't believe it.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
That's right. You know, I said a number of times,
we'll think of life as before the pandemic and after
the pandemic. That's kind of how we judge things or
how like, oh, do you remember what it was like before,
you know, when people actually worked in offices and they
looked at and now it's like they just swarmed all
over the country in different you know, locations, real estate
(06:34):
went up in rural areas. You know, there's a lot
of things that changed. But but I know what you're
also talking about, like closing of schools and things like that.
I'm wondering if it would be that dramatic though, you know,
because we seem to be like hinting along it seems
like the general public may have an idea. But again
(06:55):
a lot of people don't pay attention to this type
of niche either, so they may be blind insided, like
all of a sudden, if we see there's life, you
know that we've been visited by and we're in an
anto chamber here.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I mean, of course, if I say, you know who's
renting with this twosure, are you at both aren't fence?
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
But this is not indicative of society. It's not representative
really in any way. People here are deep specialists, they're
passionate about it, knowledgeable about it. But the average person.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
In the street I think might well descend into the
kind of screaming history. And we saw during COVID with
literally I mean people you know, dwagged on ver aplane.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
It's a two year old put a man skill, keep
one on. Yeah, you know, children sent clone from school
when they were statistically more likely to die in a
cart bridge and the way to school of COVID at
school and people forget all this.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, and so I think this is here to be
the central thesis.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But I'm going to use it. I'm going to expand
it to me a couple of mother points which you're
all kind of bleed into each other.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
One is that the government can take away your freedoms
very very quickly if.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
People are angry and scared.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
That's right.
Speaker 8 (08:23):
We saw it after nine eleven, and then we had
the pat and we saw it with COVID when when
were were asonine.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Kind of statements during the rounds like your freedoms doesn't
matter in a pandemic, when my point is that's when
they matter almost more than any other time, because that's
precisely when you're overreaches and steps into your light. So
I'm drawing this parallel between COVID and disclosure in terms
(08:59):
of government control, fear and anger, manipulation, propaganda, and also
the idea that some conspiracies and conspiracy theories to them
be true.
Speaker 9 (09:16):
Case in point, Loudly, the accepted wisdom for years, a
couple of years during the point of the pandemic was
that Loudly it was a crazy conspiracy theory, just put
down a quare handful of.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Right wing maga jobs and the web market theory.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
If you even kind of said Landly on old Twitter,
you would be shadowed by our own It would be
kind of false information, medical misinformation. You would be garon
vo to all of them.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
And now, of course it is truly the accepted position
of the ux saliment that it was a lately. And
if you go into the difference intelligence agencies when they
last published anything, some said lightly, some said natural, pseudoptic emergence.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Some word sure. But again the truth tends to be
more compact and nuanced them. Then we might lead from
very codized social media. So, yeah, I'm new, my up
sent a few people.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
I'm sure that's okay. Now you just brought up the
word social media. Now that is where it just things
just get carried away, no matter what it is. And
like you said, conspiracies, and you know, there's great division
on everything that I attribute to social media because it
just seems like someone will have an opinion they're right
(10:53):
in their mind, and if you don't buy it, then
you're wrong. You know that that type of thing. And
so I think if we all of a sudden we
found out that we are being visited by a non
human intelligence and it was all documented and everything, it's
gonna be a lot of people that won't believe that,
no matter what is said, no matter who says it.
So it's gonna be I think it's gonna be like
(11:13):
a slow you know, even if there's evidence. I'll just
give you a case some point. And I mentioned this
recently on one of my shows. I was very busy
in the auction business living in Maine, you know, several
years ago when the alien autopsy film came out. Now
that was on the news. I'm walking through. I'm super busy.
I walked through the living room. There it is on
(11:34):
the TV. I stop and I wasn't into UFOs at
the time. I never had a sighting at that point.
So I stop and I look at it, and I go,
oh my god, isn't that something? Okay? Now back to work,
you know, And I'm wondering how many people might do
that instead, like.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh my, but those people will be driven out because
you know, since they'll be flat ones, it's loud ones.
You need to watch out.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
True.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
What we will see is the politicization of all this. Sure,
and just as we saw with camera, so imagine President
Trump the Nobel Office saying, my fellow Americans, people of
the world, we are not alone. A lot of the
very vocal Democrats will immediately condemn it. As faith news.
(12:24):
Even if they do believe it, they will think the
truth that's been manipulated, twisted for political ends. I'm not
saying that the Republicans willn't try to get benefit from
it themselves anyway. But then fast forward to when the
Democrats next get in, it's a Democratic president that announces disclosure,
(12:50):
then the.
Speaker 10 (12:50):
Republicans or a lot Yes, I leave it, and you're right,
the quiet ones will just walk on by, but the
keyboard warriors will will be each other's throats.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Of course, in all of this we should not forget
that a lot of this division has been deliberately stirred up.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Structuring China absolutely part of pan grid warfare. There's a
total or near total ignorance firstly about what hybrid warfare
is and secondly how backing individually influences and interest groups
(13:32):
on social media is something that is deliberately done. And
people people say, oh, do you mean, for example, that
China is stirring things up by supporting the transsu to
pick one, very polarized, they are support me. Both sides
(13:54):
of that are given to serve the plot. They probably
don't care either way, but they see that it's very
even why invite people and they fun people both sides.
Same with Russia.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, it's just crazy. I know what the Lincoln's famous saying.
I'm sure you heard A divided house will fall or
something like that. I mean it's teraphrasing. Yeah, a house
divided will fall.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
A house divided against itself, you won't spend That's it?
Is it the other way around?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It's yeah, but the gist of it as yes, it
weakens us, you know, I mean these things, But anyway,
I want to ask you, how do you because I've
been to now three or four maybe even more of
your talks in person, and I really really enjoy them,
all so well thought out, and I want to ask you,
(14:46):
how do you come up with these topics that because
every one of them that I've listened to, and I'm
mostly ninety nine percent I'm agreeing with everything you say
when you're doing these things, So, but how do you
come up with the ideas?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I try to find questions that aren't generally being asked,
or points of view that are not generally explored.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I mean, anyone can try to an event like this
and give a general talk about UFOs or in aduction's
crop service.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I like to go deep and narrow and take a
very specific position and really think it through. So last
year it was the idea that disclosure comes to the
dark side, running through what that dark side might be.
This year it is the idea that we actually in
(15:43):
COVID do have probably the beast single.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Model of how society would react to disclosure, in that
it is a big, unanticipated, left field event.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
That will deeply, in profoundly everyone lives. We don't know
exactly now, but that makes it the best small and
that yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, So I just take the position like.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Mans and think, well, let's play the wine.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Get Yeah.
Speaker 10 (16:14):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's a really great way to come up with it.
And when it comes to the pandemic, I I kind
of give a break to whatever it is people are saying, oh,
you know, they shouldn't have done they shouldn't have done that,
because we were even though we did have like a playbook,
as you mentioned, we're still in the uncharged waters. We
didn't know exactly how this thing was going to act.
(16:35):
So I kind of give a break to the people.
I do think people went too far, and a lot
of it, especially the children and all that, But I
also give them a break because it was you know,
they were they didn't know what to do, and I
get that, I give them a break for the month.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Often not so much. He is white.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
A couple of things, honestly, Yeah, right at the there
was a lot that we didn't know the rate, the
case fatality ratio, all those different pieces of data.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
But it very quickly did become clear that almost all
of the fatalities were at the our bringing of the spectrum.
And I mean, you know it was. This is part
of the problem, of course, with censorship.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
It was very difficult to find if you searched on
more into the Median age OVID death right and in many.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Western countries the antswer turns out to eat.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
And they had more morbidity problems as well, a lot
of them did.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And yet so very quickly it should have been a way,
it should have been obvious that it was only really
affecting the elderly, people with pre existing health conditions and
people with obesity, and very often all of those states.
Now I get a huge trouble for this, but I
(18:07):
mean not you know, throwing insults at people and pointing
the fact. I'm saying, if you've ever watched the early
obesie person starting to climb the stairs.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
You will understand. Everyone will understand why they will be
disportionately affected by our restitutions, right, I mean, it's just
common sense. But we weren't aware to have that conversation. Yeah,
because of a sort of politically correct sension with fat shape. Yeah. Oh,
we shouldn't do that, right, Yeah, how many a national
(18:41):
conversation about that would have enabled people to maybe take action.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
To do the one thing that they could have done
to leverage the odds, or one of a handful of
things to leverage the odds, banking their vapor natural immunity
another one. And yeah, again it was treated as the
right way, dogless, and so I think, yeah, I'll give
you people a break for the first month.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
But yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
After that it should have been obvious who was affected
and who wasn't. And then we should have basically shielded
those people at risk and basically in the great part
into decoration and basically said, you know, let's let's let
(19:31):
it because the point is that it was so transmissible,
was never any stopping it. Yeah, And that being the case,
the best way to deal with that, the best way
to accelerate. The almost inevitable mutation to less leap would
have been just you know, to let it spread. Now
(19:56):
this was dishonestly portrayed in the media and let it
rip when when actually a great decoration. But they there
we are, I mean, yeah, this this is you still
divides people. So I'm not trying. I'm not trying to
give up popular at all. And that goes to your
(20:17):
other point about how do we can work with these ideas.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Anyone can give a talk that's going to ingratiate themselves
with the audience. Yes, that's easy because the audience a
lot of people went lead them all and Steve Basett
and it's it's a friendly crowd.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
It's a friendly crowd for me too. But I am
deliberately going to upset people plause that's the only way
to get some really interesting and important issues is to
challenge people.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yea, I will say, you know, I agree with a
lot of what you're saying, but I also you know,
I know someone pretty well who passed away and he
didn't get the vaccine, and he passed away and he
was in good shape, and you know, so there are
those outliers, but a high percentage are what you were saying.
They had other issues and that's why they passed away.
(21:11):
But but there were you know, just to be clear,
there were some people that you know, absolutely there was
a thirty year old mother, you know that.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
You know, don't anyone is saying that everyone who dyed was.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Eighty bucks, But the median age in many western countries
was around about eighty.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
And when the median age of COVID deaths it's higher
than the average life expectancy, then then it should be
telling as some about the ratio who's at rice and
you know you can.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
It's always emotive because you could say, well, young people
dying every day in true incidents, you know, how are
we get back the Well, let's.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Let's mandate seats, let's let's build a strong coasts. And
that's fine. But with COVID, we had this kind of
absolutism that people were trying to get down to zero
and and you know, the equivalent there.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Would be seeing let's find mok. Yeah then yeah, sure
if you had been milk cop those.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
The young people will die. But the costs, you know,
just in terms of economic costs, social costs and whatever
onto hight nobody would do that.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And yeah, that's what we did with COVID.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, you know, there was a thing that came up,
I don't know, maybe it was five or six years
ago where they were thinking that, you know, the cell
phone was causing brain tumors, and would you give up
your cell phone if you knew you were going to
die of a brain tumor? And most of the people said,
I don't think so that they wouldn't, you know, they
didn't want to give up the convenience. I'll hold it
away from me or something.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
They would say, you know, and choose their own level
of risk.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yes, And and this this is why one of the
lilitariats and jury pandemic was choose your own fear.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Don't let the government choose your.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Fear for you.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And yet we let the old doormis choose off for us.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
That's something that's really at the thought. So I'd like
to tell you quickly about I had a professor on
a couple of weeks ago. It was fascinating guy. His
name is Rob Hanson and he's a stattician, but he
also he worked for Noah. He was He's got an
amazing background award winning and he has uh six thousand
(23:41):
citations that he's written in white papers and everything really interesting,
really interesting. He thinks, his thoughts, thought experiment is that
we're being sort of controlled by uh not to expand out,
by some alien species that's just beyond our where we
can see him. But he thinks with you know, the UFOs.
(24:02):
He goes into the county, thinks, you know, there's something
to the UFOs. It's possible, this, impossible, that, and he
goes all through that. I just wanted to have you
ever heard of any type of theory in that we're
being like watched and possibly controlled?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Oh?
Speaker 11 (24:17):
Yeah, absolutely, And the idea there are various lapping theories,
but this, for example, the simulation theory and the various.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Variations on simulation theory, which.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Would tlead with this idea that holds the actually there
are secal civilizations that would be obvious to us if
we can see them.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
But what would be presented with is a simulation that
the universe as we perceive it is not how it
actually is. So I think those those ideas are similar.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's fascinating. I mean it's a
fascinating theory and you know, some people think that they're
the ghosts are related. Everything's related in some type of way.
And so I'm just going to ask you this, Uh,
do you think there's you know, the shock LA's theory
is that there's that's a lot of different things going on.
(25:18):
Do you kind of agree with that? Like interdimensional possibly
and possibly time travels possibly? Uh, you know, all these
different type of theories. Do you think that they're all
possibilities or some of it is all possible?
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I think they are. And of course they're all mutually exclusive.
So and I often say that people, you know, it's
not only they're all yeah, you can have extraterrestrial visitation
and travels through the future and intrusion from all the
mad shoots and all sorts of other things. I mean,
(25:55):
it's it's not like, you know one you don't have
the other.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Right. Here's another question that people ask me that I'd
just like to get your opinion on. They'll say, well, okay,
you know, I saw UFO and the one that I
my citing did not have lights on it, but it
had an overall like a blue glow on it. But
still a lot of people say, why on earth do
they have lights.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
So I lead this all the time and I say, well,
look it's you know, people think they'd be para answering
that question, but actually it can kind of the question
itself contains a very unpha percent of assumption, which is
that the lights we see on UFOs are length the
lights we see on the aircraft, i e. They are
(26:39):
anticleision liliots and navigation lines and peace like that, whereas
the lions could be the bank one up of the
propulsion system and the lights couldn't signify you know, information,
and really they could be tanceruptive. We don't know. Yeah,
(27:00):
the lights are on the UFOs, but it's very unlike
they are any lots.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, yeah, I would say, I would say now, last
time that you were actually on my show, it was
a great talk. When we were talking, I was during
the drone flap, if you recall from what I understand,
and your Mark Antonio joined us, where all three of
us were on it's still according to some people, it's
still ongoing. So my question is what do you think
(27:31):
of the FAA's declaration that, oh, yes we know these
were being tested, when previously they said we have no
idea what they are, what do you think of that.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, I think there's a bit of bureaucratic confusion. I mean,
want to fall the research drive is, you know, the grabs.
I think the new administration just wanted this because that
Trump got asked about it literally on the first day
(28:04):
of the second term in the overal office. So somebody
did you see it?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
And it was champ a question, you know, hew, you
went about drones and the President said, well, I'll get
an answer for you within twenty four hours.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And they think they were then under such pressure that
they kind of did that theme whereby it's like, Okay,
some of the drones are ply cobbyist drones and commercial
drones and all all sorts, and then they presented them
as the answer, whereas I think everyone always accepted that, yeah,
(28:39):
sure some of them are drones, but some are and
what about those?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah. And the problem with that is that this whole
question is just really part of the way in UAP debate.
And the problem with the UAP issue at the moment
in government.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
Is that we are in a bit of a the
four point time because House Oversight Committee has been effectively
leading on this in Congress, I mean, other committees are involved.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Send it on Services Committee, but generally it's an House
Oak Saying Committee and they very much kind of bet
the farm or Lewis all lows and that's fine as
long as they can come up with the goods and
then the problems. But now we have the Task Force
(29:32):
on the Decrassification of Federal Secrets, and obviously that's headed
up by Anolina Luna who also said someone else over
Saying Committee Chance is involved a number of other people,
so there's there's a little bit of bureaucratic overlap and
(29:53):
confusion about what exactly is.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Going to happen going forward. And this is this is
put to the drone because of course this is really
where this is the forum in which it.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Should be discussed. And yet at the moment we're not
we're not really quite sure whether the House was like
Mania is, you know, take things for where they can
sit back and let the task Force do it.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Howld or two again we interface and so it's it's
all really frustrating that mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Right. So the last question I'd like to ask you is,
I don't know if you watched any of the videos
with like Matthew Brown about Amatulet constellation and a few
other people. So I'm just I get And then there's
the skywatchers I think they're called. So it's like there's
(30:47):
like a new movement, new blood into us if you will,
into the whole UFO topic. Do you think it's any
of that is possibly moving the needle forward? Or do
you think it's some more of this?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
I think it is moving. On the other hand, it's
it's complicating the situation. Even people that keep track on it,
I can't push to to keep up with Oh wait,
which which whistle? Though it was this was this this
intelligence agency? That intelligence agency? Has this person testified? Yet?
(31:25):
Are they going to testify who else is going through?
For so? I think it is going to be confusing.
I think that Jay's Tracken's upcoming book should help because
I hope that he will kind of make it clear
who was only you ain't he tasked force with him?
(31:47):
And who wasn't.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And I mean, obviously we know that they've brushed Watts,
you like they brushed warts the person who Jay Toll.
Go to all the different parts of the military and
the indulgence community, Go find who knows what, Go find
who the point man is and make sure that we
(32:10):
have a representative in every agency, which is wine, the
no Golts and many at least.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
People from four because people are the same. Yeah, I was,
I was on the top. I was the representative from
from you you know this, three letter agents, three latter agents.
So I hope Jay's look will help.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
I think it's still going through dop sir, thanks getting
for its security variance, But I am I have not
spoken to Jane for a while.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I know he's in the recent the film that's coming
out at some point that people are talking about, and
I have a friend that watched that in Texas at
the what's it called, uh.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
So the film festival. Yeah, and then this is the
age of disclosure.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Of this, yes, so I understand Jay makes some revelations
in that film too, which will be interesting to see. Now.
I've been told this by a filmmaker, and I asked
James Fox about it. He's he heard a rumor two
that Amazon is no longer going to be featuring any
type of UFO films. I don't know if you've heard
that or not, but that would I don't understand what
(33:10):
that's about that, which I think is pretty strange.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, I mean, at the moment, I don't think that's
true because I think you ain't got a couple of
upcoming films or one early recent one, which is I
think on it and Amazon. On the other hand, there
are so many of these other streaming platforms around, whether
(33:33):
it's it's iTunes or qub or Vimeo or or whatever
it is. I mean, if you make a film, it's
available somewhere, yes, but that's sad. Yeah, it will be
disappointed if Amazon get out of that game. And I
don't know why they didn't do that. It is content absolutely,
(33:55):
and unless something violates quantent policy, Yeah, I don't see
why why they will do that. You know, they may
maybe the rumor is more that they're not fund their
own make their own films, yeah, say Netflix sign it
(34:16):
off like basically doing DVDs. Oh yeah, but then got
into making their own content, yes, and so maybe it's
maybe it's more question generating the content.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
That very well could be because I know that's what
Netflix did decide on when it came to something like
any type of series. They wanted to create their own
series and not take one that was already in the
can you know. According to another filmmaker, But anyway, Nick,
has been such a pleasure, and I'll be seeing you
again in a couple of days up at Pride Bush.
(34:54):
But thank you so much. It's been a lot of fun.
I've always always enjoy our conversations. Thank you all right,
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