August 19, 2025 • 57 mins
In this riveting interview, Martin Willis speaks with retired U.S. Air Force Captain Dave Schindele, a former Missile Launch Control Officer, who recounts a harrowing and long-suppressed incident from September 1966. While stationed at Minot Air Force Base, Schindele and his crew took over a missile site—only to discover that all 10 nuclear-tipped Minuteman ICBMs had been mysteriously rendered unlaunchable after a chilling encounter with a "flying object." Despite the severity of the breach, no one was ever questioned, and everyone involved was told to “forget it ever happened.” Now, after decades of silence, Schindele is sharing his story, the cover-up, and his deep insights into what this means for national security and the UFO/UAP phenomenon. 📘 David Schindele is the author of It Never Happened – a book that details this incredible and disturbing event.
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SHOW NOTES
Support the Show & Stay Connected!
🛸Did you have a UFO/UAP Encounter? Leave Us a Voicemail: https://podcastufo.com/ufo-sightings/ufo-encounter-voicemail
🧢 Podcast UFO Merch (Shirts, Hats & More): https://tinyurl.com/mrybmnwb 📬 FREE Sign Up for Our Weekly Newsletter — Get updates on upcoming guests, blog posts, and more:
http://eepurl.com/LPHKD
🌐 Our Website:
https://podcastufo.com
📱 Follow us on Social Media:
Twitter (X): https://x.com/PodcastUFO
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PodcastUFO
📺 Subscribe on YouTube (It’s Free!):
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Way, Hello, and welcome to the show of Martin Willshure host,
(00:30):
and we've got another great one for you this evening.
We have Dave Shinley and I met him out at
Contact in the Desert. I was sitting speaking with Bob
Sallas and he sat down and then I realized who
he was. And I remember seeing him years ago in Washington,
DC at a press club or whatever it was. I
(00:51):
can't remember quite what it was, but I do remember
him talking about it and thinking how similar his event
was prior actually to what happened with Bob Sallas. And
also the same thing ten you know, nukes went down. Anyway,
just a couple of things. I want to give a
shout out again for Jack who's helping me. You that.
(01:12):
Take a look at my YouTube channel. You see a
lot of changes. Jack is responsible for most of that
and is doing a great job putting up clips all
the time. Recently, I actually put this video up. You
can check it over. It's basically an interview with a
(01:32):
woman that everyone would come to in the Mount Shasta
area and talk to her about the UFO encounters. And
it's a great video. It's on the YouTube channel. It's
not as a audio podcast, but it is on the
YouTube channel, so do check that out. It's getting a
lot of us in just a couple of days, which
is always good. But so I want to thank Jack
(01:54):
for that and also a lot of the great people
that help out in the background. So, as I mentioned
last week, we're going to be going heading out to
a couple of events. One of them is out in
Sedona at Travis Walton's fiftieth anniversary. We're going to be
out there October seventeenth through the twentieth. Just coming up
(02:14):
in a couple of weeks. You that are interested in
Incident Exeter would happen in Exeter in New Hampshire. There's
a conference that's only twenty minutes away from me. It's
where Jack UFO. Jack that helps me out, he lives
right there. So that's going to be the UFO conference.
I'm going to be speaking there, going to be there
a couple of days. If you're at that festival, make
(02:36):
sure you look me up and we'll say hi. And
I have some T shirts and things that I may
give a couple away there. I'm not sure what I'm
going to do yet, but anyway, so that's coming up.
Then Shag Harbor again this year. I'm the MC up there.
I'm really looking forward to that. The speed my third
and fourth year. I believe in a row that I'm
(02:57):
going up there. Really love it. One of the best conferences.
Beautiful scenery up there. The blog this week is part
two Encounter in Detchmont Woods that's written by Charles Lear.
He's coming up as a guest in a little while,
maybe September sometime, so he's always a very welcome guest
(03:18):
here on this show. And this Thursday we have James Landolli.
He's going to be on the regular Thursday night show
at eight pm. So just heads up for all of
you that are watching live right now. Coming up September
second is our first switch here on Tuesday night. We're
(03:40):
switching from seven pm to nine pm. So I hope
I don't lose a lot of you that are here
every week in YouTube, in the chat, and I want
to have a shout out to all you in chat,
thanks so much for being here. Duckhead, Roger Murray, Dirkman, Steele, Chris, George,
Alexander Minneapolis sometimes joins us with great questions. Bobby, who
(04:04):
I've known met in twenty twelve at a UFO conference,
has been in here in chat ever since. So thank
you all for being here, and right now I'm going
to introduce our guests. He has an amazing background. He
was a captain at the time he was What were
you at the time that incident happened? What was your
(04:26):
position when is it happened? I was a first lieutenant,
first lieutenant. So welcome Dave, Welcome to the show. Thanks
very much, and it was great to meet you in California.
That was a fun time. You know, I say to
a lot of people, it's fun going to you know,
watching the speakers, but in the hallways, in the restaurants,
(04:48):
that's where the fun really is, you know, meeting all
these people with like interests.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah. Great, that was a great time, lots of fun,
and I was amazed at how big the event was.
There was really something else.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I couldn't believe it. Now. I heard there was twenty
five hundred people, but it seemed like more than that.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well I heard as many as four thousand.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. The person who said that
was Dan Harari, who was on last week, and I'm
not sure how where he got his numbers from, but yeah,
I would think within the whole event there had to
be about that total. But it was great. It was great,
and the great to see you and then all the people,
and sitting with Bob's always fun. He's such a nice
guy and so and I understand that you had not
(05:35):
heard of you know, you finally met Bob like years later,
and you had not told your wife. Let's let's talk
about the I guess we should start at the beginning
how this whole thing played out with you, if you would.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, I didn't hear about Bob until two thousand and one,
which was quite all after my incident was in September
nineteen sixty six, and my commander and I, Gordon Tolerande,
Major Gordon Tolroude, we're going out to November flight to
(06:12):
relieve the crew. It was on September twenty fifth, nineteen
sixty six, and we first went to Well. First of all,
I got up that morning. I lived in town in
the town of mine not and I was given a
special permission to live there because my wife was a
high school teacher there and mine not high school. So
(06:36):
got up in the morning and I heard on the
TV they had residents of Mohall, North Dakota saw strange
lights overnight and that peaud my interest and so I
got ready and got my car and drove to Mine
Air Force Base, which is about thirteen miles north of town.
(07:02):
And when I got to the base, I went to
the end of the base to wing headquarters and checked
in and prepared myself for the pre departure crew briefing.
We're all fifteen missile crews were gathered in room and
hear about latest world events, protocol and procedures and missile
(07:27):
status of the wing and that's about It was about
a half an hour briefing. And during the briefing it
was mentioned that some missiles that November flight went off alert.
Well that alerted me because I had heard the newscast
overnight and I was going to November flight to relieve
(07:49):
the crew there, my commander and I. So after the
crew beef briefing was over, about three or four missile
crews came up to Gordon tolerand and I and said,
they said, did you hear the news this morning? And
I said yes, and my commander said yes, and it
(08:14):
was about the sightings that people in the hall north
to Go. I had overnight, and so we thought about
that on our way to the launch facility, and we
passed through the small town of moe Hall, and the
way it took us about well, it was about thirty
five miles away, so it took us a little over
(08:38):
half an hour to get to the launch Launch Control facility,
which is one of fifteen launch Control Cities facilities in
the Minor the area. And these facilities were located from well,
November was about about the closest thirty five miles and
somewhere as far as seventy miles away. Anyway, we arrived
(09:01):
at the gate of November Flight and we gave them
the password and they opened the gate for us, and
we drove in and parked, and immediately my commander went
to the security section of the building, which was the
north end of the building, and I went ahead and
(09:23):
did my normal inspections of the grounds within the security fence,
and I had to inspect the various antennas that we
had there for communications, and then I went into the
back door and I met the site manager who was
the tech sergeant. He was there waiting for me at
(09:45):
the back door, and when I opened the door, he said,
did you hear what happened overnight, and I said, well, no,
not really, but I heard on TV that residence of
mall Hall north to go to south Strange lights overnight,
and Moholl was three miles east of town. The launch
(10:05):
facility was three miles west of town, and so it
wasn't too far away. He says, come follow me, and
he took me to the day room of the launch
control facility to the west facing windows, and he started
to explaining to me what they saw overnight. And he
held his hands outstretched toward the windows and he tried
(10:32):
to describe the object that was hovering just beyond the
security fence. And he said it had bright flashing lights.
And so I asked him a crazy question. I said, well,
it was it a helicopter? Yeah? He wasn't too pleased
with that. He said, no, it is an object I
(10:54):
had never seen before, or that we had never seen before,
because by then a couple of security guards joined us
to join the conversation. And he said, no, it's not
a helicopter. It had bright flashing lights, it made no
(11:15):
noise and was just hovering there. And I knew helicopters
didn't fly at night quite often they would take us
to the various launch control facilities that we went to
in the mornings to relieve crews. But November flight was
so close we used the standard blue station Air Force
(11:38):
station wagon. He further tried to describe this thing, but
the lights were so bright he couldn't adequately see the
object itself or the structure of the object. He thought, well,
it was elongated. It was He thought maybe he was
(11:58):
a saucer h because he had never seen anything like
this in his life, and the only thing he could
think it was a flying saucer. Anyway, after a while,
this this thing started started uh heading toward the north
end of the facility, uh on the other side of
(12:20):
the security fence. And it has solely moved and settled
just behind the main gate and a little bit to
the right of the main gate. And in that position
position the on site garage, which was inside the security fence,
partly partly blocked the view from the security people, but
(12:41):
they saw the majority of the object just hovering there.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Now, if I pull this up right now, does that
help you in any type of way of describing where
it was located? This is of course for video only.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yes, you can see the facility that the elongated long
object there in the square facility fence. You can see
the garage. They are just sidely above the main facility
and the security gate. And then I have outlined there
the the direction the object moved around the cilly and
(13:20):
settled behind the main gate. Mm hmm. That looks a
little bit like an old rendition or a newer rendition
the facility.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
But oh, it's a newer rendition that it changed.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to do it.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Oh that's okay, Yeah, it might be too difficult to
find something. But but but anyway, so it's it's it's
similar to to that, and you did draw something on that,
and that's that's an old image of when you did
that talk way back. You know, I'm the citizens hearing there.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Okay, yeah, that's right. Anyway, that the object head there
hovered quite some time and then pretty soon and everybody
was out watching it. We had a cook on site,
like I said, the site manager and six security guards
(14:21):
and they're all looking at this thing. But they didn't
want to go outside and confront this thing at all.
In fact, they were they were shaken in their roosts.
This thing frightened them because they had never seen such
a thing in all their life, and they had a
feeling that this thing was not friendly. Anyway, they watched.
(14:45):
As they're watching it, the thing took off, and it
took off and just a flash. It just it was
gone in a second or two, just out of sight.
And that shook them up a bit. But at least
the thing wasn't there anymore.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And made no noise when it took off either, right.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Made no noise whatsoever. And the whole time they were
in communication with the the crew commander below ground sixty
feet below ground, and the deputy commander, so.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Awesome, Well we we talked about this before the show.
He tried to unplug the phone and could not unplug
it and uh, yeah, just uh tell all your friends
to stop calling.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Well seriously from my wife, So.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Oh okay, all right, well I'm telling us to stay
on the phone with someone.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But anyway, where were we the thing took off and flash,
he just was gone. And uh and then later on
my commander and I arrived and we're the first people
the top side people had seen. And we got there
(16:05):
probably about ken or ten thirty in the warning after
nine o'clock crew briefing. The briefing left about a half
an hour, so that was probably a little after ten
o'clock that we arrived there. And like I said, my
commander directly went into the security part to the building
(16:27):
and to interview security guards that came to the back
end of the building. And then I had heard enough
and went into the security section of the building and
they issued us thirty caliber revolvers that we strapped on
our holsters into our holsters, and then we took the
elevator below ground sixty feet below ground. We had to
(16:51):
open a large blast door after we left the elevator,
and then we were left with another blast doore to
go through, which was into the launch control capsule, and
the deputy commander had already opened that blast of horse
to walk in. As we walked in, we both took
(17:13):
a look at the launch control console the opposite end
of the room. By the way, this room was suspended
within this capsule by four shock isolators on each corner
of the room, and so we didn't we couldn't see
the capsule sell but the launch control console was in
this room at far in and we saw all red
(17:34):
lights across the face of the console and we had
never seen anything like that in all our life. We
might see possibly one or two missiles down or off
alert because of regular maintenance that had to be done
on these missiles. And the wing command post was very
(17:58):
proud of the fact that we had more than ninety
five percent uptime, which was a sack strate strategic care
command requirement that to be a successful outstanding unit they
had to have ninety percent uptime. Of all these missiles. Well,
we could see on the console that all ten of
(18:19):
more down and when we corried versa, the voice signal
recording assembly voice recording signal simply yeah, each missile would
talk to us, and each each missile said guidance. The
control system malfunk function and we had never seen anything
or hurt anything like that in our lives. But they
(18:41):
have all ten of them give us the same message.
Was just unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Now, I just want to interrupt, yeah, just for a
second here, because you know, I was unaware. You know,
I talked to people like Mario Woods and of course
Bob Sallas over the years, and I had no idea
that these missiles was so far apart. But I heard
your say earlier that thirty five miles, maybe seventy miles.
(19:09):
How far of a distance are these waves.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
There's fifteen launch control centers, and each launched control center
would control ten missiles, and each of these missiles were
five to fifteen miles away in all directions from lost
control facility. Now, with fifteen lost control centers lost control facilities,
that made one hundred and fifty missiles that were surrounding
(19:36):
mine on North Dakota.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Wow, amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So that's a lot of missiles spread out in a large,
large area. And so November flight had control of ten
missiles and they were all all alert, and they were
you could say, they're spread maybe the furthest thirty five
(20:00):
miles away, just five miles away.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Now these all there's obviously some type of cables, underground cables,
or some type of underground conduits to each one of
these from that launch facility.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yes, each one of these were connected by a thick
round cables and underground and there all these missiles were
separated from each other. The missiles that we saw in
the launch control console, all their wires and connections came
(20:37):
right to the launch control center. When a key would
if the key was turned to the launch control center.
It would launch all ten of those missiles are the
ones that we had armed.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, we have a question here, but I know you're
going to get to that later after debriefing about We'll
talk about that later when it comes to debriefing. So,
I guess the puzzle is what would what is something
that could do this that you were aware of at
(21:12):
the time, could shut these things down.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Well, we had long discussion with an outgoing crew about
that and to find out exactly what happened and so forth,
But the only thing we had ever heard of was
an e m F or MP pulse that we had
to be aware of. We wanted to get missiles launched
(21:37):
before an atomic bomb would hit us from Russia or wherever,
and we were warned that peoples could disable our missiles,
and so we talked about a possible im F pulse.
So somehow taking these missiles off alert. But and yeah,
(22:01):
F pulse would have taken out our lights in the
facility and all the electronics in the capsule, so.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And your vehicles and everything.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, So we discussed this quite a bit. We decided, well,
it wasn't any EMF pulse, but it was some kind
of signal that went to those missiles and all those
independent missiles, they were independent from each other. How they
received this signal, it was a mystery.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Now, someone just over on Facebook wanted to know if
there was any solar storm activity at that time, that
would have to be major solar storm because these are
aren't these insulated conduits as well? I mean they're I
think they were wrapped with something to protect them against
(22:52):
saying things like empiece.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, I'm not too familiar with those cables, and I
know that they're, like I said, quite large. Uh, and
they were covered I think with some kind of rubber
covering of some sort. But yeah, there were big cables. Uh.
But they're far underground too, right, And.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And there was if there was solar activity again, same
thing as we talked about before, like a pulse, everything
would be affected, all the electronics, the vehicles, and.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And we had emergency We had another capsule just to
the west of US underground that supplied emergency electronics, electronic electricity,
and air conditioning. So uh. But we of course we
had blast air blast bels too for any kind of
(23:49):
atomic explosion nearby. So yeah, we and the outgoing crew
discussed this at length, but they were anxious to get away.
They were out of They wanted to get out of there,
and they did, and then we were my commander and
I were left with ten unlaunchable missiles that we had
(24:11):
the monitor. Wow, we had the monitor because maintenance crews
are coming out to bring them back to alert, and
security crews also to each far flung missile site silo,
So we were somewhat busy trying to bring these missiles
up alert. Now, one thing I can't remember is how
long that took. I'm not sure. I really cannot remember
(24:37):
if if they even got one missile up during the
time we were there.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
And did they ever like pinpoint what the issues were
why they went down, you know what I mean? What
did they fix to make and go back?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Bob Sallis said he's looked into that quite a bit,
and evidently Boeing was able to figure out what cir
a burrow board or something in the God's control system
that went bad, and I guess they had to replace those.
I never heard anything. For one thing. The crew that
(25:15):
we replaced were told not to talk about this incident
ever again, and my commander and I were also told
the same thing.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Never to talk about. Now. How strong was that wording?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It was very strong, actually, my commander told me, and
he had gotten a call overnight from the Air Force
Office Special Investigation. I was on a rest break below ground,
and he forgot to tell me. When I got up,
(25:52):
and when we were relieved by another crew the next
morning and went topside, I attempted to query the flight
security control that they had security guard upstairs. And as
soon as I started asking my question, he says, I'm sorry, sir,
but I can't talk about that subject subject anymore. And
(26:13):
then my commander turned to me and says, oh, I
forgot to tell you. The Air Force Office of Special
Visation has called me overnight, and they told my commanders.
They said, as far as you're concerned, it never happened.
And that's what my commander told me. And then he
said we were never supposed to talk about the incident again.
(26:35):
In fact, we were never supposed to talk to each
other about the incident again, although I did talk to
him once, and I'll never forget it, and it gave
me a really a guilt feeling to bring up the subject.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
And when you talked to him, can you explain what
you did talk about once again that.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Well, two weeks later, we had a F one of
six go down in our area responsibility. We're at UH
at Mike Flight at the time. This incident that I
talked to you about, have been talking to you about,
was that November flight. But Mike Flight, Uh, the the
(27:19):
F one of six went down and I was piloted
by the commander of the F one of sixth Squadron. Well,
this aircraft came down in the farmers field and we
went there, my commander and I after we relieved the
next morning by another crew, and we found that it
(27:41):
had made a long furrow in the ground and it
sort of made us soft landing, if you will. But
the cockpit was cracked in front where the cockpit was
so it was the nose of the plane and uh,
the commander that squadron didn't make it, but it looked
(28:05):
like a soft landing wheels up landing. And I've had
other pilot of salg It wheels up, you know, that's
sort of unheard of. When you're an approach to Mina
Air Force Base, you usually got your wheels down. So
I had asked my commander. I mentioned to my commander
(28:27):
during the night after I'd gotten over my rest break,
and I says, and we're sending security guards out to
find this plane. And I happened to mention to my commander.
I said, I wonder for you IFOE had something to
do with this. Oh my god, I mentioned the subject.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
So, I mean, it's quite remarkable that it's it was
that much of a taboo thing to talk about. And
and let me ask you this at the time. Were
you thinking it had more to do with the shutdown
than that there was a UFO involved or did you
think it was like an an equal thing.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I'm sure what you mean.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Okay, The reason why they didn't want you to talk
about it were was the reason more? Do you think
because of the nukes shutting down unexplainably, or that there
was a UFO scene over the facility or do you
think it was both.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I'll tell you neither. My commander and I were ever
questioned about this thing. When we got to base, everything
was like it was normal. We were never retrained on
this thing. The crew that we relieved when they got
back to base, they had the sign of non disclosure agreement,
(29:55):
both of them, and they were told never to talk
about the since it ever again. So when the crew
we relieved got the base, when I came nder and
I got the base, everything was like normal. None of
the other crews were aware or instant. My commander, I
(30:16):
couldn't tell them. Wow, this told us something. Yeah, it
had happened many times before, and the Air Force didn't
want us talking about it, and they never questioned They
never questioned us because they didn't have to. Wow and
so and so this told us that, hey, this instant
(30:39):
happened many times before the one that we were involved.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
With crazy, and that's something which is really crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
And we didn't feel comfortable about this at all because
we didn't want other crews to have to go through
what the crew we relieved did. H and the fact
that we were never trained to what to do if
another such an instance should happen again really really bothered us.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Right, I bet now did you? Were you ever able to,
like years later, talk with anyone that was involved in
this service. Everyone kind of kept quiet and went their
own way and all that.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, In fact, there's quite a few people. I got
some names here. Let me get my glasses on all right.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
In the meantime, I'm going to put up a picture
of you back during the day, right.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yes, this was about a year after and I had
been promoted to captain. Yeah, I had my own crew.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Pretty sharp looking like the uniform you've already mentioned.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Robert Sallis. Yep. But Val Smith had an instant on
December nineteenth, nineteen sixty six. It was about a month
before mine. Larry Manner that innocent Paul Johnson had an instant,
and that is really something. Paul Johnson met me at
(32:08):
Wing headquarters after he got off duty and I was
still there, and Paul Johnson was a good friend of mine.
I'm a godparent to one of his children. And Paul
Johnson said that as they were going out the keel
of Light the day before, there was a UFO came
(32:30):
and follow the aircraft. On one side of the aircraft.
Another UFO was in front of them, and then their
engine quit and they started auto rotating down to the ground.
But before they reached the ground, they just started and
(32:51):
they were able to continue on the keel of light.
So that was my first clue that someone else will
probably involved with the UFOs. Then there was Milton Hathaway
and he had an instant where all missiles went down,
(33:18):
but he will not talk about it because of his
non disclosure agreement, and he's retired from the Air Force
and he spent ten years in the Pentagon after leaving
wy Not.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Oh yep, So how comfortable did you feel talking about
this the first time when you did?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Well? Like I said, I heard about Robert Sallas's instant
in two thousand and one, and I read about it
on the internet. I've been looking for several years for
any Air Force people talking about this stuff. Of course,
the interric net came up in the late nineties sometime,
(34:03):
and that's when I started looking. But in two thousand
and one I found out about Robert Sallas's incident and
I thought, oh my god, it's true, it's real. Right
away I told my new wife about this, and in fact,
(34:25):
I was sitting in the same chair i'm sitting right now,
and I said, hey, I found something on the internet
that you need to know about, and so I told her,
and I was so relieved to find out that Robert
Sallas had spilled the beans, and I felt, at least
I can tell my wife. And in two and five
(34:52):
rolled up a website and I broadcast this on my
website because well, it's more of a family website. I
want my family to know about this, and I decided
I'm going to do this, so I let them know.
But I really didn't tell many people about it. I'm
(35:14):
more or less kept it quiet. At least I want
my family to know. And then in twenty ten, Robert
Hastings interviewed me and he had found out about my website. Yeah.
Well I told Robert Hastings about that, and then that's
when things hit the ground and started running. The citizens
(35:38):
Hearing a disclosure was on in May of twenty thirteen,
and that's when I finally met Robert Salladson. Was they
able to talk to him?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
And the two people that you mentioned that actually witnessed
this thing but wouldn't go outside, did you ever get
a chance to speak to them again about the whole.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Situation managing the security people you're talking about, right, Yeah,
I saw the site manage a few times, so that
I never did talk to them.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, I mean, because you were afraid to talk about
it basically, right.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Well, it's a little strange. The officers and they are men.
There are two separate entities and you saw them around
the squad on a few times, but you didn't necessarily
strike up conversations. And no, I never talked to them
about well I wouldn't have anyway.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, yeah, I understand. So I got to ask you, what,
first of all, what did this in your life change?
Because how much you feel like your life totally changed
because of this one incident.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, I always say I held my tongue for forty years.
Actually was after thirty five years that met Robert Salice.
But I stayed pretty quiet even then, even after telling
my wife and some of our relatives. I didn't go
and make the presentation, presentations or anything. I kept pretty quiet.
(37:18):
So my life, I kept this in the back of
my mind. Really, I shoved it away and and uh
so I could live my life. I didn't want to
keep thinking about this stuff, and I didn't. But when
I saw Robert Sallie my wife, my life changed. Yeah,
(37:41):
and especially the last few years when all these whistleblowers
that come out, these new whistleblowers that come out and
starting to tell their stories. My story is an old story. Yeah,
I started laughing, snicker at these people are coming out
and telling them their stories now, because this is old
(38:03):
stuff to me and I'm made you five years old now,
and hey, this should have been let out years ago.
I feel whistleblowers, thank God for them that they're coming out,
and David Rush and so forth at talking about this stuff,
and I'm very thankful for them coming out. But I
(38:23):
had kept this out of my mind for so long,
and I was happy then. But my life has changed
in the last few years with these Wilson blowers going
out and going to contact in the desert in different places,
and and I you know, I had tried to stay
a little sort of out of sight. I didn't want
to talk about this stuff. As soon as Robisals came
(38:46):
out of Okay, I'm going to talk.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, well, I'm glad you did. And this person is
basically saying the same, thank you for speaking out about this.
Do you think that more people like you will speak out?
You know, you mentioned that there's possibly many times that
this has happened, and I agree. I mean, you know
from you hear little bits and pieces here and there,
(39:11):
and Robert Hastings has done a great job with what
you know, looking into this and interviewing people like you.
But I guess I'm going to ask you kind of
a philosophical question, that is, why do you think if
it was, let's just say extraterrestrial, we'll just go there.
(39:31):
I'm not saying it is, because I really don't know,
but let's just say that it's extra trustrial, something non
human that came here and shut down the nukes. What
do you think, Why do you think they did it?
What do you think the purpose was?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I don't know, but a lot of people now have
come up to me since I've come out and made
presentations and so forth, and many of these people it's
hard to believe, but maybe these people are people who
have been abducted. And when you when you have somebody
(40:11):
coming up who's well educated and it tells you a
story like that, you think, I've got to have an
open mind, and I have, and I listened to their stories,
and like I said, many of these people are well educated,
(40:32):
knowledgeable people, people, people who didn't want to talk to anybody,
but trusted me enough to tell me their story. I
felt originally that these must be extraterrestrial, because nothing had
(40:52):
the physics involve physics to perform these these fast maneuvers
flash out of sight in seconds, going thousand miles an hour.
I guess shape like they could and hover in mid
air without making a noise. Yeah, I knew we didn't
have the physics for this stuff. So where else could
(41:14):
it come from? Yeah? Not from us humans. Now that
this was fifty nine years ago, So now people are
talking about, well, aerospace companies have manufactured these things and
are back engineering these things and so forth. I said,
I think things to myself a great but I don't
(41:36):
think they're human made.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, I mean especially that's a very good point which
I have to bring up to a lot of people
outside of the show that we'll say, oh, these are
you know, man made, you know, technology or whatever. What
about fifty nine years ago, did we have that technology then?
I don't think so, no way, no way, there's no way,
And it couldn't have been kept under wraps all that
(41:59):
time we happen to have anything like that.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
So supersonic aircraft was sort of unheard of then too.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I mean, you know, the good point is like you
can't have a car before you invent the wheel, you
know what I mean. It's it's just any progress takes steps.
It's not like a leap, you know, It's not like
a leap into something like that when and then us
not using it at all? Would That's silly to think
of anything like that.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yeah, One thing I must say is that we had
outer security alarms and inner security alarms at these missile sites.
Outer security alarm would be like a jack rabbit jumping
across the surface of the earth in an air missile site. Yeah,
inner security alarm would be like a truck driving by
(42:52):
outside the front gate. Whenever we had one of these
security alarms that we couldn't reset and launch control cans
of pushing a button, and we'd try pushing it several
times and wait a few minutes and push it again.
If they wouldn't reset, we'd have to send a strike
(43:14):
team out, a security team to visit that missile site
and manually reset those alarms. Moved the obstruction that was
cossing the alarm. Sometimes they couldn't do it. Sometimes they
had to bring maintenance people out and extra security guards
to guard the sight while they got the alarm reset. Well,
(43:37):
some of these security teams were traumatized. But what they
saw when they got to the missile sites really you
know what I'm talking about. They would see these objects
hovering over the site, or they'd be on site and
one of these objects would suddenly be hovering over them. Well,
(43:59):
these guys, these guys came out with PTSD. Some of
these guys are just were really shaken up. And I
know the names of several of them.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
One is uh? I got these names here? One is
is uh? Well, you mentioned Mario Woods. Mario Woods had
a very traumamatic experience.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
The first time. The first time I talked to him,
he was in tears at one point when he was
talking about this, that incident. I mean it really, he's
very emotional about it.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
That was at Elsworth Air Force Base, and he's got
a right to be emotional about that. There's a what's
his name? Trying to read that saw my glasses. I
(45:07):
can't remember that any I can't can't see them. Let's
see there I mentioned Barbra was there was wilber Gunther.
I found this guy on the Internet and he heard
people at Oscar Flight security guards screaming over the of
the radios about this thing hovering over side seven. I
(45:32):
found Stephen du Bois, who is out Alpha Flight and
might not the security guard who was on the site
to reset a security alarm and found this object hovering
over him. And his description is on the internet, Darryl
Stephen du Bois, and he after he left the Air Force,
(45:53):
he went to work for the State Department and he
just recently retired from the State Department. He's got a
story that it amazing. So and there's a lot of
these security guards who who I have deep feelings for
now because I sent them out to to receps on
these security alarms and they met with some horrible experiences.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Wow. Just amazing to think about how many times has
this happened. I mean, I wonder if you know there's
an accurate account of it, and then probably it's probably
known by the Air Force, and.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
They have got no help from the Air Force. They've
gotten no help from the VA on this stuff. Yeah,
and I know there's many of these security guards who
have received no help whatsoever. And in my later years,
(46:52):
I've been starting to feel for these guys because I
sent them out there. M you set these alarms and
they could There's many stories on the internet from these guys.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, I mean, I remember years ago when I had
Robert Hastings on one of the first questions, I asked
why do you think there's an interest you know, your
his opinion, and I remember him answering me something along
the lines of that, you know, we could destroy the world,
and they just showing us say no that you know,
(47:28):
trying to give us a warning, some type of warning
of some some type of that you know to you know,
I mean, you think about it's not just missiles, it's
also nuclear power plants and things like that. They've been
known to be over which is another strange thing. It
makes you wonder why.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yep, yeah, those tell me energy plants that had their
share of flying objects that they've had to deal with.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Right, yeah, right, there was a really great case. Trying
to remember where it was, but it was coming up
the river and hovering right over you know, the cooling out,
past the cooling of the plant, and then just hovering there.
It happened, I think repeatedly. There nothing shut down or anything.
Here's it looks like more of a opinion from doctor
(48:25):
Richard Fourier was enacted in sixty six. Condo Committee began
work in sixty six two threats to cover up? What
if the missile shutdown was an ET warning? Keep covering
up and we'll destroy your missile defenses. That's an interesting opinion.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Well, that's what Robert Sallie says. You know that, that's
what these egs are trying to tell us. That's what
the UFOs are trying to tell us, shut down these
missile sites. I don't know what Robert Salas says at all.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean look at you know,
I don't want to get into it, but you know,
look how many times we can destroy the earth, you know,
I mean, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
It's just well, people just don't understand how powerful these
things are. I was in the with the Atlas missile
system before the Mini Man. I was a Fair Channel
Air Force base and we had nine missiles there. I said,
I helped deactivate the last Atlas missile there at the
time in nineteen sixty five. And the weapon that they
(49:30):
had on top of that missiles missile was three point
seven mega tons. That's one hundred and twenty eight times
more powerful than the drop bomb dropped on Nagasaki. If
you can imagine the power, if you.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
If you think of just twice as powerful, never mind
one hundred somewha powerful, one.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Hundred and eighty seven Yeah, terrible.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
It really is. Here's another question here from Tony. Did
you ever meet someone that you felt knew something that
you did and felt you were being observed? I'm not
sure exactly what he means by that, you know, like
another someone in the military wondered, possibly, did you ever
feel like you were being watched to make sure you're
(50:17):
keeping quiet about it?
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Or I've always been looking behind my back now after
forty years and coming out, but I can't say that
I've had problems with my computer, but I can't prove
that somebody was involved in messing it up. But that's
really the only thing.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
But yeah, have you ever heard from anyone, Has anyone
ever called you and say, you know, why are you
talking about this or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Well, I've heard from Robert Hastings many times that he's
been harassed by people.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, yeah, but you've never been harassed in any.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Type of way, not in any series, not yet.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
But no, I hope I know it never happens. But
and you also wrote, did you write a book on
this topic or something else?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yes? I did.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Well my as well. Give that a little bit of
a plug. Since you're here, I should show it, show
it to the I did link it. I did, remember,
I did link it in the show notes and down below,
so anyone wants to check it out.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
I don't have a copy of it right here with me,
but it's called it never Happened.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Yeah, that's a greats.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
My commander and I were told, as far as you're concerned,
it never happened. Yeah, And it's got a missile uh
midiman miss on the front cover.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Did you ever wonder how far up that came from
that command came from the what the the wording? You know,
it never happened? How far up the chain that went?
Speaker 2 (51:54):
But it's a famous air force saying that that a
lot of people have been told that, Yeah, as far
as you're concerned, it never happened. Yeah, and it just
seems to be sort of air force parlance.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Well so I guess I want to ask you this.
You said you felt better after you talked to your
wife and you had someone to talk to about it.
Do you feel better when you talk about this or
is it a little traumatizing? What's it like to talk
about it?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Commatizing is a good word. I get quite emotional times,
especially thinking about the security guards sent I sent out there,
and hearing their stories. And then after coming out and
giving presentations at McMinnville and contacting the desert and other
places and having people come up to me to tell
(52:51):
me their stories. I know that the stuff is not uncommon.
The average American person doesn't realize. But those people who
have had experiences and want to tell somebody who will
believe them. There are many of those people, and I've
(53:14):
talked to so many of them.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Well, you know, it's really good you listen. There are
a few that do presentations that I'm aware of, that
will not listen to other people talk about their their issues,
and I think it's great. I think it's you know,
people are there and it helps them to talk about it,
and that's great that you do let them talk about it.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Well, I feel that the American people need to know.
And I thank God for a Robert Sallason having the
guts to come out and talk about this stuff, because
this started me thinking that hey, I should be talking
to and pretty soon I was. I was convinced. And
then I wrote a book about my experience and the
(53:59):
Air Force cover Europe that went on to up to
a Project Blue book. And now I've read read in
the second volume. I'm going to publish it next year,
and it's all about Blue Book and Captain Rupelt. Now,
Captain Rupel wrote his book in nineteen fifty six, very
(54:19):
very good book.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
I have it.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yeah. He then the year that he died, nineteen sixty.
I think someone else wrote the last three chapters that
were added to his book. The whole flavor of the
book changed, and it's like it contradicts the previous that's right,
(54:48):
eighteen chapters that he wrote.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
People have talked about that and like it almost like
he changed his mind on the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
You know, it's just I mean, it sucks someone else
wrote the book to me when you read it, read
the last three chapters, but all the book that came
out in nineteen fifty six, I mean, that is something else.
And after you read the whole thing, you realize that
that Captain rupevilt knew the real story. Yeah, and he
(55:23):
didn't want to lose his job. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Now we only got a couple of minutes left. And
I usually don't like leaving on a negative note, but
I have to bring it up. The Wall Street Journal,
The Wall Street Journal, what did you think of that article?
Speaker 2 (55:38):
The two articles I saw it, but I refused to
read it. I didn't good for you. I knew right
away just by the title of it it was farce.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
You know what really upset me about that is when
I talked to Robert about it and he said, oh, yeah,
he was talking about that. That reporter was talking to
me all the time and like your best buddies and
all this, and then he turned around and did that.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
To him, you know, storry and so forth. Yeah, yeah,
totally nonsense.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, it's that was that was rather sad. But but
it's been a real pleasure. You're a fine gentleman, and
I'm so glad that I got to meet you in
California and you agreed to do this show. It's funny thing.
I left your card down in the card you gave
me down in South carolinam up in New Hampshire now
and but Robert was kind enough to give me your information.
(56:30):
But thanks so much, and I really appreciate you. Thank you,
thank you for your service back then, and most of all,
I want to thank you for actually getting up the
courage to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yeah, it's been a real privilege to talk with you,
so thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Thanks a lot. Okay, take care all right everyone, so
don't forget to come back with us on Thursday night.
James Landolly, I'm still doing these two a week. We'll
see how it goes. It's been quite a bit of
extra work, but a lot of fun. I enjoy this
and thanks so much everyone, and remember, oh yeah, check
out our merchandise over at podcastufo dot com. And thanks
(57:09):
so much, and remember to keep your eyes to this
Way, Hello, and welcome to the show of Martin Willshure host,
(00:30):
and we've got another great one for you this evening.
We have Dave Shinley and I met him out at
Contact in the Desert. I was sitting speaking with Bob
Sallas and he sat down and then I realized who
he was. And I remember seeing him years ago in Washington,
DC at a press club or whatever it was. I
(00:51):
can't remember quite what it was, but I do remember
him talking about it and thinking how similar his event
was prior actually to what happened with Bob Sallas. And
also the same thing ten you know, nukes went down. Anyway,
just a couple of things. I want to give a
shout out again for Jack who's helping me. You that.
(01:12):
Take a look at my YouTube channel. You see a
lot of changes. Jack is responsible for most of that
and is doing a great job putting up clips all
the time. Recently, I actually put this video up. You
can check it over. It's basically an interview with a
(01:32):
woman that everyone would come to in the Mount Shasta
area and talk to her about the UFO encounters. And
it's a great video. It's on the YouTube channel. It's
not as a audio podcast, but it is on the
YouTube channel, so do check that out. It's getting a
lot of us in just a couple of days, which
is always good. But so I want to thank Jack
(01:54):
for that and also a lot of the great people
that help out in the background. So, as I mentioned
last week, we're going to be going heading out to
a couple of events. One of them is out in
Sedona at Travis Walton's fiftieth anniversary. We're going to be
out there October seventeenth through the twentieth. Just coming up
(02:14):
in a couple of weeks. You that are interested in
Incident Exeter would happen in Exeter in New Hampshire. There's
a conference that's only twenty minutes away from me. It's
where Jack UFO. Jack that helps me out, he lives
right there. So that's going to be the UFO conference.
I'm going to be speaking there, going to be there
a couple of days. If you're at that festival, make
(02:36):
sure you look me up and we'll say hi. And
I have some T shirts and things that I may
give a couple away there. I'm not sure what I'm
going to do yet, but anyway, so that's coming up.
Then Shag Harbor again this year. I'm the MC up there.
I'm really looking forward to that. The speed my third
and fourth year. I believe in a row that I'm
(02:57):
going up there. Really love it. One of the best conferences.
Beautiful scenery up there. The blog this week is part
two Encounter in Detchmont Woods that's written by Charles Lear.
He's coming up as a guest in a little while,
maybe September sometime, so he's always a very welcome guest
(03:18):
here on this show. And this Thursday we have James Landolli.
He's going to be on the regular Thursday night show
at eight pm. So just heads up for all of
you that are watching live right now. Coming up September
second is our first switch here on Tuesday night. We're
(03:40):
switching from seven pm to nine pm. So I hope
I don't lose a lot of you that are here
every week in YouTube, in the chat, and I want
to have a shout out to all you in chat,
thanks so much for being here. Duckhead, Roger Murray, Dirkman, Steele, Chris, George,
Alexander Minneapolis sometimes joins us with great questions. Bobby, who
(04:04):
I've known met in twenty twelve at a UFO conference,
has been in here in chat ever since. So thank
you all for being here, and right now I'm going
to introduce our guests. He has an amazing background. He
was a captain at the time he was What were
you at the time that incident happened? What was your
(04:26):
position when is it happened? I was a first lieutenant,
first lieutenant. So welcome Dave, Welcome to the show. Thanks
very much, and it was great to meet you in California.
That was a fun time. You know, I say to
a lot of people, it's fun going to you know,
watching the speakers, but in the hallways, in the restaurants,
(04:48):
that's where the fun really is, you know, meeting all
these people with like interests.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah. Great, that was a great time, lots of fun,
and I was amazed at how big the event was.
There was really something else.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I couldn't believe it. Now. I heard there was twenty
five hundred people, but it seemed like more than that.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well I heard as many as four thousand.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. The person who said that
was Dan Harari, who was on last week, and I'm
not sure how where he got his numbers from, but yeah,
I would think within the whole event there had to
be about that total. But it was great. It was great,
and the great to see you and then all the people,
and sitting with Bob's always fun. He's such a nice
guy and so and I understand that you had not
(05:35):
heard of you know, you finally met Bob like years later,
and you had not told your wife. Let's let's talk
about the I guess we should start at the beginning
how this whole thing played out with you, if you would.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, I didn't hear about Bob until two thousand and one,
which was quite all after my incident was in September
nineteen sixty six, and my commander and I, Gordon Tolerande,
Major Gordon Tolroude, we're going out to November flight to
(06:12):
relieve the crew. It was on September twenty fifth, nineteen
sixty six, and we first went to Well. First of all,
I got up that morning. I lived in town in
the town of mine not and I was given a
special permission to live there because my wife was a
high school teacher there and mine not high school. So
(06:36):
got up in the morning and I heard on the
TV they had residents of Mohall, North Dakota saw strange
lights overnight and that peaud my interest and so I
got ready and got my car and drove to Mine
Air Force Base, which is about thirteen miles north of town.
(07:02):
And when I got to the base, I went to
the end of the base to wing headquarters and checked
in and prepared myself for the pre departure crew briefing.
We're all fifteen missile crews were gathered in room and
hear about latest world events, protocol and procedures and missile
(07:27):
status of the wing and that's about It was about
a half an hour briefing. And during the briefing it
was mentioned that some missiles that November flight went off alert.
Well that alerted me because I had heard the newscast
overnight and I was going to November flight to relieve
(07:49):
the crew there, my commander and I. So after the
crew beef briefing was over, about three or four missile
crews came up to Gordon tolerand and I and said,
they said, did you hear the news this morning? And
I said yes, and my commander said yes, and it
(08:14):
was about the sightings that people in the hall north
to Go. I had overnight, and so we thought about
that on our way to the launch facility, and we
passed through the small town of moe Hall, and the
way it took us about well, it was about thirty
five miles away, so it took us a little over
(08:38):
half an hour to get to the launch Launch Control facility,
which is one of fifteen launch Control Cities facilities in
the Minor the area. And these facilities were located from well,
November was about about the closest thirty five miles and
somewhere as far as seventy miles away. Anyway, we arrived
(09:01):
at the gate of November Flight and we gave them
the password and they opened the gate for us, and
we drove in and parked, and immediately my commander went
to the security section of the building, which was the
north end of the building, and I went ahead and
(09:23):
did my normal inspections of the grounds within the security fence,
and I had to inspect the various antennas that we
had there for communications, and then I went into the
back door and I met the site manager who was
the tech sergeant. He was there waiting for me at
(09:45):
the back door, and when I opened the door, he said,
did you hear what happened overnight, and I said, well, no,
not really, but I heard on TV that residence of
mall Hall north to go to south Strange lights overnight,
and Moholl was three miles east of town. The launch
(10:05):
facility was three miles west of town, and so it
wasn't too far away. He says, come follow me, and
he took me to the day room of the launch
control facility to the west facing windows, and he started
to explaining to me what they saw overnight. And he
held his hands outstretched toward the windows and he tried
(10:32):
to describe the object that was hovering just beyond the
security fence. And he said it had bright flashing lights.
And so I asked him a crazy question. I said, well,
it was it a helicopter? Yeah? He wasn't too pleased
with that. He said, no, it is an object I
(10:54):
had never seen before, or that we had never seen before,
because by then a couple of security guards joined us
to join the conversation. And he said, no, it's not
a helicopter. It had bright flashing lights, it made no
(11:15):
noise and was just hovering there. And I knew helicopters
didn't fly at night quite often they would take us
to the various launch control facilities that we went to
in the mornings to relieve crews. But November flight was
so close we used the standard blue station Air Force
(11:38):
station wagon. He further tried to describe this thing, but
the lights were so bright he couldn't adequately see the
object itself or the structure of the object. He thought, well,
it was elongated. It was He thought maybe he was
(11:58):
a saucer h because he had never seen anything like
this in his life, and the only thing he could
think it was a flying saucer. Anyway, after a while,
this this thing started started uh heading toward the north
end of the facility, uh on the other side of
(12:20):
the security fence. And it has solely moved and settled
just behind the main gate and a little bit to
the right of the main gate. And in that position
position the on site garage, which was inside the security fence,
partly partly blocked the view from the security people, but
(12:41):
they saw the majority of the object just hovering there.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Now, if I pull this up right now, does that
help you in any type of way of describing where
it was located? This is of course for video only.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yes, you can see the facility that the elongated long
object there in the square facility fence. You can see
the garage. They are just sidely above the main facility
and the security gate. And then I have outlined there
the the direction the object moved around the cilly and
(13:20):
settled behind the main gate. Mm hmm. That looks a
little bit like an old rendition or a newer rendition
the facility.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
But oh, it's a newer rendition that it changed.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to do it.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Oh that's okay, Yeah, it might be too difficult to
find something. But but but anyway, so it's it's it's
similar to to that, and you did draw something on that,
and that's that's an old image of when you did
that talk way back. You know, I'm the citizens hearing there.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Okay, yeah, that's right. Anyway, that the object head there
hovered quite some time and then pretty soon and everybody
was out watching it. We had a cook on site,
like I said, the site manager and six security guards
(14:21):
and they're all looking at this thing. But they didn't
want to go outside and confront this thing at all.
In fact, they were they were shaken in their roosts.
This thing frightened them because they had never seen such
a thing in all their life, and they had a
feeling that this thing was not friendly. Anyway, they watched.
(14:45):
As they're watching it, the thing took off, and it
took off and just a flash. It just it was
gone in a second or two, just out of sight.
And that shook them up a bit. But at least
the thing wasn't there anymore.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
And made no noise when it took off either, right.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Made no noise whatsoever. And the whole time they were
in communication with the the crew commander below ground sixty
feet below ground, and the deputy commander, so.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Awesome, Well we we talked about this before the show.
He tried to unplug the phone and could not unplug
it and uh, yeah, just uh tell all your friends
to stop calling.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Well seriously from my wife, So.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Oh okay, all right, well I'm telling us to stay
on the phone with someone.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
But anyway, where were we the thing took off and flash,
he just was gone. And uh and then later on
my commander and I arrived and we're the first people
the top side people had seen. And we got there
(16:05):
probably about ken or ten thirty in the warning after
nine o'clock crew briefing. The briefing left about a half
an hour, so that was probably a little after ten
o'clock that we arrived there. And like I said, my
commander directly went into the security part to the building
(16:27):
and to interview security guards that came to the back
end of the building. And then I had heard enough
and went into the security section of the building and
they issued us thirty caliber revolvers that we strapped on
our holsters into our holsters, and then we took the
elevator below ground sixty feet below ground. We had to
(16:51):
open a large blast door after we left the elevator,
and then we were left with another blast doore to
go through, which was into the launch control capsule, and
the deputy commander had already opened that blast of horse
to walk in. As we walked in, we both took
(17:13):
a look at the launch control console the opposite end
of the room. By the way, this room was suspended
within this capsule by four shock isolators on each corner
of the room, and so we didn't we couldn't see
the capsule sell but the launch control console was in
this room at far in and we saw all red
(17:34):
lights across the face of the console and we had
never seen anything like that in all our life. We
might see possibly one or two missiles down or off
alert because of regular maintenance that had to be done
on these missiles. And the wing command post was very
(17:58):
proud of the fact that we had more than ninety
five percent uptime, which was a sack strate strategic care
command requirement that to be a successful outstanding unit they
had to have ninety percent uptime. Of all these missiles. Well,
we could see on the console that all ten of
(18:19):
more down and when we corried versa, the voice signal
recording assembly voice recording signal simply yeah, each missile would
talk to us, and each each missile said guidance. The
control system malfunk function and we had never seen anything
or hurt anything like that in our lives. But they
(18:41):
have all ten of them give us the same message.
Was just unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Now, I just want to interrupt, yeah, just for a
second here, because you know, I was unaware. You know,
I talked to people like Mario Woods and of course
Bob Sallas over the years, and I had no idea
that these missiles was so far apart. But I heard
your say earlier that thirty five miles, maybe seventy miles.
(19:09):
How far of a distance are these waves.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
There's fifteen launch control centers, and each launched control center
would control ten missiles, and each of these missiles were
five to fifteen miles away in all directions from lost
control facility. Now, with fifteen lost control centers lost control facilities,
that made one hundred and fifty missiles that were surrounding
(19:36):
mine on North Dakota.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Wow, amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So that's a lot of missiles spread out in a large,
large area. And so November flight had control of ten
missiles and they were all all alert, and they were
you could say, they're spread maybe the furthest thirty five
(20:00):
miles away, just five miles away.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Now these all there's obviously some type of cables, underground cables,
or some type of underground conduits to each one of
these from that launch facility.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yes, each one of these were connected by a thick
round cables and underground and there all these missiles were
separated from each other. The missiles that we saw in
the launch control console, all their wires and connections came
(20:37):
right to the launch control center. When a key would
if the key was turned to the launch control center.
It would launch all ten of those missiles are the
ones that we had armed.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, we have a question here, but I know you're
going to get to that later after debriefing about We'll
talk about that later when it comes to debriefing. So,
I guess the puzzle is what would what is something
that could do this that you were aware of at
(21:12):
the time, could shut these things down.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Well, we had long discussion with an outgoing crew about
that and to find out exactly what happened and so forth,
But the only thing we had ever heard of was
an e m F or MP pulse that we had
to be aware of. We wanted to get missiles launched
(21:37):
before an atomic bomb would hit us from Russia or wherever,
and we were warned that peoples could disable our missiles,
and so we talked about a possible im F pulse.
So somehow taking these missiles off alert. But and yeah,
(22:01):
F pulse would have taken out our lights in the
facility and all the electronics in the capsule, so.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And your vehicles and everything.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, So we discussed this quite a bit. We decided, well,
it wasn't any EMF pulse, but it was some kind
of signal that went to those missiles and all those
independent missiles, they were independent from each other. How they
received this signal, it was a mystery.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Now, someone just over on Facebook wanted to know if
there was any solar storm activity at that time, that
would have to be major solar storm because these are
aren't these insulated conduits as well? I mean they're I
think they were wrapped with something to protect them against
(22:52):
saying things like empiece.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, I'm not too familiar with those cables, and I
know that they're, like I said, quite large. Uh, and
they were covered I think with some kind of rubber
covering of some sort. But yeah, there were big cables. Uh.
But they're far underground too, right, And.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And there was if there was solar activity again, same
thing as we talked about before, like a pulse, everything
would be affected, all the electronics, the vehicles, and.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And we had emergency We had another capsule just to
the west of US underground that supplied emergency electronics, electronic electricity,
and air conditioning. So uh. But we of course we
had blast air blast bels too for any kind of
(23:49):
atomic explosion nearby. So yeah, we and the outgoing crew
discussed this at length, but they were anxious to get away.
They were out of They wanted to get out of there,
and they did, and then we were my commander and
I were left with ten unlaunchable missiles that we had
(24:11):
the monitor. Wow, we had the monitor because maintenance crews
are coming out to bring them back to alert, and
security crews also to each far flung missile site silo,
So we were somewhat busy trying to bring these missiles
up alert. Now, one thing I can't remember is how
long that took. I'm not sure. I really cannot remember
(24:37):
if if they even got one missile up during the
time we were there.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
And did they ever like pinpoint what the issues were
why they went down, you know what I mean? What
did they fix to make and go back?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Bob Sallis said he's looked into that quite a bit,
and evidently Boeing was able to figure out what cir
a burrow board or something in the God's control system
that went bad, and I guess they had to replace those.
I never heard anything. For one thing. The crew that
(25:15):
we replaced were told not to talk about this incident
ever again, and my commander and I were also told
the same thing.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Never to talk about. Now. How strong was that wording?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It was very strong, actually, my commander told me, and
he had gotten a call overnight from the Air Force
Office Special Investigation. I was on a rest break below ground,
and he forgot to tell me. When I got up,
(25:52):
and when we were relieved by another crew the next
morning and went topside, I attempted to query the flight
security control that they had security guard upstairs. And as
soon as I started asking my question, he says, I'm sorry, sir,
but I can't talk about that subject subject anymore. And
(26:13):
then my commander turned to me and says, oh, I
forgot to tell you. The Air Force Office of Special
Visation has called me overnight, and they told my commanders.
They said, as far as you're concerned, it never happened.
And that's what my commander told me. And then he
said we were never supposed to talk about the incident again.
(26:35):
In fact, we were never supposed to talk to each
other about the incident again, although I did talk to
him once, and I'll never forget it, and it gave
me a really a guilt feeling to bring up the subject.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
And when you talked to him, can you explain what
you did talk about once again that.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Well, two weeks later, we had a F one of
six go down in our area responsibility. We're at UH
at Mike Flight at the time. This incident that I
talked to you about, have been talking to you about,
was that November flight. But Mike Flight, Uh, the the
(27:19):
F one of six went down and I was piloted
by the commander of the F one of sixth Squadron. Well,
this aircraft came down in the farmers field and we
went there, my commander and I after we relieved the
next morning by another crew, and we found that it
(27:41):
had made a long furrow in the ground and it
sort of made us soft landing, if you will. But
the cockpit was cracked in front where the cockpit was
so it was the nose of the plane and uh,
the commander that squadron didn't make it, but it looked
(28:05):
like a soft landing wheels up landing. And I've had
other pilot of salg It wheels up, you know, that's
sort of unheard of. When you're an approach to Mina
Air Force Base, you usually got your wheels down. So
I had asked my commander. I mentioned to my commander
(28:27):
during the night after I'd gotten over my rest break,
and I says, and we're sending security guards out to
find this plane. And I happened to mention to my commander.
I said, I wonder for you IFOE had something to
do with this. Oh my god, I mentioned the subject.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
So, I mean, it's quite remarkable that it's it was
that much of a taboo thing to talk about. And
and let me ask you this at the time. Were
you thinking it had more to do with the shutdown
than that there was a UFO involved or did you
think it was like an an equal thing.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I'm sure what you mean.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Okay, The reason why they didn't want you to talk
about it were was the reason more? Do you think
because of the nukes shutting down unexplainably, or that there
was a UFO scene over the facility or do you
think it was both.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I'll tell you neither. My commander and I were ever
questioned about this thing. When we got to base, everything
was like it was normal. We were never retrained on
this thing. The crew that we relieved when they got
back to base, they had the sign of non disclosure agreement,
(29:55):
both of them, and they were told never to talk
about the since it ever again. So when the crew
we relieved got the base, when I came nder and
I got the base, everything was like normal. None of
the other crews were aware or instant. My commander, I
(30:16):
couldn't tell them. Wow, this told us something. Yeah, it
had happened many times before, and the Air Force didn't
want us talking about it, and they never questioned They
never questioned us because they didn't have to. Wow and
so and so this told us that, hey, this instant
(30:39):
happened many times before the one that we were involved.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
With crazy, and that's something which is really crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
And we didn't feel comfortable about this at all because
we didn't want other crews to have to go through
what the crew we relieved did. H and the fact
that we were never trained to what to do if
another such an instance should happen again really really bothered us.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Right, I bet now did you? Were you ever able to,
like years later, talk with anyone that was involved in
this service. Everyone kind of kept quiet and went their
own way and all that.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, In fact, there's quite a few people. I got
some names here. Let me get my glasses on all right.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
In the meantime, I'm going to put up a picture
of you back during the day, right.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yes, this was about a year after and I had
been promoted to captain. Yeah, I had my own crew.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Pretty sharp looking like the uniform you've already mentioned.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Robert Sallis. Yep. But Val Smith had an instant on
December nineteenth, nineteen sixty six. It was about a month
before mine. Larry Manner that innocent Paul Johnson had an instant,
and that is really something. Paul Johnson met me at
(32:08):
Wing headquarters after he got off duty and I was
still there, and Paul Johnson was a good friend of mine.
I'm a godparent to one of his children. And Paul
Johnson said that as they were going out the keel
of Light the day before, there was a UFO came
(32:30):
and follow the aircraft. On one side of the aircraft.
Another UFO was in front of them, and then their
engine quit and they started auto rotating down to the ground.
But before they reached the ground, they just started and
(32:51):
they were able to continue on the keel of light.
So that was my first clue that someone else will
probably involved with the UFOs. Then there was Milton Hathaway
and he had an instant where all missiles went down,
(33:18):
but he will not talk about it because of his
non disclosure agreement, and he's retired from the Air Force
and he spent ten years in the Pentagon after leaving
wy Not.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Oh yep, So how comfortable did you feel talking about
this the first time when you did?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Well? Like I said, I heard about Robert Sallas's instant
in two thousand and one, and I read about it
on the internet. I've been looking for several years for
any Air Force people talking about this stuff. Of course,
the interric net came up in the late nineties sometime,
(34:03):
and that's when I started looking. But in two thousand
and one I found out about Robert Sallas's incident and
I thought, oh my god, it's true, it's real. Right
away I told my new wife about this, and in fact,
(34:25):
I was sitting in the same chair i'm sitting right now,
and I said, hey, I found something on the internet
that you need to know about, and so I told her,
and I was so relieved to find out that Robert
Sallas had spilled the beans, and I felt, at least
I can tell my wife. And in two and five
(34:52):
rolled up a website and I broadcast this on my
website because well, it's more of a family website. I
want my family to know about this, and I decided
I'm going to do this, so I let them know.
But I really didn't tell many people about it. I'm
(35:14):
more or less kept it quiet. At least I want
my family to know. And then in twenty ten, Robert
Hastings interviewed me and he had found out about my website. Yeah.
Well I told Robert Hastings about that, and then that's
when things hit the ground and started running. The citizens
(35:38):
Hearing a disclosure was on in May of twenty thirteen,
and that's when I finally met Robert Salladson. Was they
able to talk to him?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
And the two people that you mentioned that actually witnessed
this thing but wouldn't go outside, did you ever get
a chance to speak to them again about the whole.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Situation managing the security people you're talking about, right, Yeah,
I saw the site manage a few times, so that
I never did talk to them.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, I mean, because you were afraid to talk about
it basically, right.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Well, it's a little strange. The officers and they are men.
There are two separate entities and you saw them around
the squad on a few times, but you didn't necessarily
strike up conversations. And no, I never talked to them
about well I wouldn't have anyway.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, yeah, I understand. So I got to ask you, what,
first of all, what did this in your life change?
Because how much you feel like your life totally changed
because of this one incident.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, I always say I held my tongue for forty years.
Actually was after thirty five years that met Robert Salice.
But I stayed pretty quiet even then, even after telling
my wife and some of our relatives. I didn't go
and make the presentation, presentations or anything. I kept pretty quiet.
(37:18):
So my life, I kept this in the back of
my mind. Really, I shoved it away and and uh
so I could live my life. I didn't want to
keep thinking about this stuff, and I didn't. But when
I saw Robert Sallie my wife, my life changed. Yeah,
(37:41):
and especially the last few years when all these whistleblowers
that come out, these new whistleblowers that come out and
starting to tell their stories. My story is an old story. Yeah,
I started laughing, snicker at these people are coming out
and telling them their stories now, because this is old
(38:03):
stuff to me and I'm made you five years old now,
and hey, this should have been let out years ago.
I feel whistleblowers, thank God for them that they're coming out,
and David Rush and so forth at talking about this stuff,
and I'm very thankful for them coming out. But I
(38:23):
had kept this out of my mind for so long,
and I was happy then. But my life has changed
in the last few years with these Wilson blowers going
out and going to contact in the desert in different places,
and and I you know, I had tried to stay
a little sort of out of sight. I didn't want
to talk about this stuff. As soon as Robisals came
(38:46):
out of Okay, I'm going to talk.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, well, I'm glad you did. And this person is
basically saying the same, thank you for speaking out about this.
Do you think that more people like you will speak out?
You know, you mentioned that there's possibly many times that
this has happened, and I agree. I mean, you know
from you hear little bits and pieces here and there,
(39:11):
and Robert Hastings has done a great job with what
you know, looking into this and interviewing people like you.
But I guess I'm going to ask you kind of
a philosophical question, that is, why do you think if
it was, let's just say extraterrestrial, we'll just go there.
(39:31):
I'm not saying it is, because I really don't know,
but let's just say that it's extra trustrial, something non
human that came here and shut down the nukes. What
do you think, Why do you think they did it?
What do you think the purpose was?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I don't know, but a lot of people now have
come up to me since I've come out and made
presentations and so forth, and many of these people it's
hard to believe, but maybe these people are people who
have been abducted. And when you when you have somebody
(40:11):
coming up who's well educated and it tells you a
story like that, you think, I've got to have an
open mind, and I have, and I listened to their stories,
and like I said, many of these people are well educated,
(40:32):
knowledgeable people, people, people who didn't want to talk to anybody,
but trusted me enough to tell me their story. I
felt originally that these must be extraterrestrial, because nothing had
(40:52):
the physics involve physics to perform these these fast maneuvers
flash out of sight in seconds, going thousand miles an hour.
I guess shape like they could and hover in mid
air without making a noise. Yeah, I knew we didn't
have the physics for this stuff. So where else could
(41:14):
it come from? Yeah? Not from us humans. Now that
this was fifty nine years ago, So now people are
talking about, well, aerospace companies have manufactured these things and
are back engineering these things and so forth. I said,
I think things to myself a great but I don't
(41:36):
think they're human made.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, I mean especially that's a very good point which
I have to bring up to a lot of people
outside of the show that we'll say, oh, these are
you know, man made, you know, technology or whatever. What
about fifty nine years ago, did we have that technology then?
I don't think so, no way, no way, there's no way,
And it couldn't have been kept under wraps all that
(41:59):
time we happen to have anything like that.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
So supersonic aircraft was sort of unheard of then too.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I mean, you know, the good point is like you
can't have a car before you invent the wheel, you
know what I mean. It's it's just any progress takes steps.
It's not like a leap, you know, It's not like
a leap into something like that when and then us
not using it at all? Would That's silly to think
of anything like that.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yeah, One thing I must say is that we had
outer security alarms and inner security alarms at these missile sites.
Outer security alarm would be like a jack rabbit jumping
across the surface of the earth in an air missile site. Yeah,
inner security alarm would be like a truck driving by
(42:52):
outside the front gate. Whenever we had one of these
security alarms that we couldn't reset and launch control cans
of pushing a button, and we'd try pushing it several
times and wait a few minutes and push it again.
If they wouldn't reset, we'd have to send a strike
(43:14):
team out, a security team to visit that missile site
and manually reset those alarms. Moved the obstruction that was
cossing the alarm. Sometimes they couldn't do it. Sometimes they
had to bring maintenance people out and extra security guards
to guard the sight while they got the alarm reset. Well,
(43:37):
some of these security teams were traumatized. But what they
saw when they got to the missile sites really you
know what I'm talking about. They would see these objects
hovering over the site, or they'd be on site and
one of these objects would suddenly be hovering over them. Well,
(43:59):
these guys, these guys came out with PTSD. Some of
these guys are just were really shaken up. And I
know the names of several of them.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
One is uh? I got these names here? One is
is uh? Well, you mentioned Mario Woods. Mario Woods had
a very traumamatic experience.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
The first time. The first time I talked to him,
he was in tears at one point when he was
talking about this, that incident. I mean it really, he's
very emotional about it.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
That was at Elsworth Air Force Base, and he's got
a right to be emotional about that. There's a what's
his name? Trying to read that saw my glasses. I
(45:07):
can't remember that any I can't can't see them. Let's
see there I mentioned Barbra was there was wilber Gunther.
I found this guy on the Internet and he heard
people at Oscar Flight security guards screaming over the of
the radios about this thing hovering over side seven. I
(45:32):
found Stephen du Bois, who is out Alpha Flight and
might not the security guard who was on the site
to reset a security alarm and found this object hovering
over him. And his description is on the internet, Darryl
Stephen du Bois, and he after he left the Air Force,
(45:53):
he went to work for the State Department and he
just recently retired from the State Department. He's got a
story that it amazing. So and there's a lot of
these security guards who who I have deep feelings for
now because I sent them out to to receps on
these security alarms and they met with some horrible experiences.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Wow. Just amazing to think about how many times has
this happened. I mean, I wonder if you know there's
an accurate account of it, and then probably it's probably
known by the Air Force, and.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
They have got no help from the Air Force. They've
gotten no help from the VA on this stuff. Yeah,
and I know there's many of these security guards who
have received no help whatsoever. And in my later years,
(46:52):
I've been starting to feel for these guys because I
sent them out there. M you set these alarms and
they could There's many stories on the internet from these guys.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, I mean, I remember years ago when I had
Robert Hastings on one of the first questions, I asked
why do you think there's an interest you know, your
his opinion, and I remember him answering me something along
the lines of that, you know, we could destroy the world,
and they just showing us say no that you know,
(47:28):
trying to give us a warning, some type of warning
of some some type of that you know to you know,
I mean, you think about it's not just missiles, it's
also nuclear power plants and things like that. They've been
known to be over which is another strange thing. It
makes you wonder why.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yep, yeah, those tell me energy plants that had their
share of flying objects that they've had to deal with.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Right, yeah, right, there was a really great case. Trying
to remember where it was, but it was coming up
the river and hovering right over you know, the cooling out,
past the cooling of the plant, and then just hovering there.
It happened, I think repeatedly. There nothing shut down or anything.
Here's it looks like more of a opinion from doctor
(48:25):
Richard Fourier was enacted in sixty six. Condo Committee began
work in sixty six two threats to cover up? What
if the missile shutdown was an ET warning? Keep covering
up and we'll destroy your missile defenses. That's an interesting opinion.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Well, that's what Robert Sallie says. You know that, that's
what these egs are trying to tell us. That's what
the UFOs are trying to tell us, shut down these
missile sites. I don't know what Robert Salas says at all.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean look at you know,
I don't want to get into it, but you know,
look how many times we can destroy the earth, you know,
I mean, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
It's just well, people just don't understand how powerful these
things are. I was in the with the Atlas missile
system before the Mini Man. I was a Fair Channel
Air Force base and we had nine missiles there. I said,
I helped deactivate the last Atlas missile there at the
time in nineteen sixty five. And the weapon that they
(49:30):
had on top of that missiles missile was three point
seven mega tons. That's one hundred and twenty eight times
more powerful than the drop bomb dropped on Nagasaki. If
you can imagine the power, if you.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
If you think of just twice as powerful, never mind
one hundred somewha powerful, one.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Hundred and eighty seven Yeah, terrible.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
It really is. Here's another question here from Tony. Did
you ever meet someone that you felt knew something that
you did and felt you were being observed? I'm not
sure exactly what he means by that, you know, like
another someone in the military wondered, possibly, did you ever
feel like you were being watched to make sure you're
(50:17):
keeping quiet about it?
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Or I've always been looking behind my back now after
forty years and coming out, but I can't say that
I've had problems with my computer, but I can't prove
that somebody was involved in messing it up. But that's
really the only thing.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
But yeah, have you ever heard from anyone, Has anyone
ever called you and say, you know, why are you
talking about this or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Well, I've heard from Robert Hastings many times that he's
been harassed by people.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, yeah, but you've never been harassed in any.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Type of way, not in any series, not yet.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
But no, I hope I know it never happens. But
and you also wrote, did you write a book on
this topic or something else?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yes? I did.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Well my as well. Give that a little bit of
a plug. Since you're here, I should show it, show
it to the I did link it. I did, remember,
I did link it in the show notes and down below,
so anyone wants to check it out.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
I don't have a copy of it right here with me,
but it's called it never Happened.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Yeah, that's a greats.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
My commander and I were told, as far as you're concerned,
it never happened. Yeah, And it's got a missile uh
midiman miss on the front cover.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Did you ever wonder how far up that came from
that command came from the what the the wording? You know,
it never happened? How far up the chain that went?
Speaker 2 (51:54):
But it's a famous air force saying that that a
lot of people have been told that, Yeah, as far
as you're concerned, it never happened. Yeah, and it just
seems to be sort of air force parlance.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
Well so I guess I want to ask you this.
You said you felt better after you talked to your
wife and you had someone to talk to about it.
Do you feel better when you talk about this or
is it a little traumatizing? What's it like to talk
about it?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Commatizing is a good word. I get quite emotional times,
especially thinking about the security guards sent I sent out there,
and hearing their stories. And then after coming out and
giving presentations at McMinnville and contacting the desert and other
places and having people come up to me to tell
(52:51):
me their stories. I know that the stuff is not uncommon.
The average American person doesn't realize. But those people who
have had experiences and want to tell somebody who will
believe them. There are many of those people, and I've
(53:14):
talked to so many of them.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Well, you know, it's really good you listen. There are
a few that do presentations that I'm aware of, that
will not listen to other people talk about their their issues,
and I think it's great. I think it's you know,
people are there and it helps them to talk about it,
and that's great that you do let them talk about it.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Well, I feel that the American people need to know.
And I thank God for a Robert Sallason having the
guts to come out and talk about this stuff, because
this started me thinking that hey, I should be talking
to and pretty soon I was. I was convinced. And
then I wrote a book about my experience and the
(53:59):
Air Force cover Europe that went on to up to
a Project Blue book. And now I've read read in
the second volume. I'm going to publish it next year,
and it's all about Blue Book and Captain Rupelt. Now,
Captain Rupel wrote his book in nineteen fifty six, very
(54:19):
very good book.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
I have it.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yeah. He then the year that he died, nineteen sixty.
I think someone else wrote the last three chapters that
were added to his book. The whole flavor of the
book changed, and it's like it contradicts the previous that's right,
(54:48):
eighteen chapters that he wrote.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
People have talked about that and like it almost like
he changed his mind on the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (54:57):
You know, it's just I mean, it sucks someone else
wrote the book to me when you read it, read
the last three chapters, but all the book that came
out in nineteen fifty six, I mean, that is something else.
And after you read the whole thing, you realize that
that Captain rupevilt knew the real story. Yeah, and he
(55:23):
didn't want to lose his job. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Now we only got a couple of minutes left. And
I usually don't like leaving on a negative note, but
I have to bring it up. The Wall Street Journal,
The Wall Street Journal, what did you think of that article?
Speaker 2 (55:38):
The two articles I saw it, but I refused to
read it. I didn't good for you. I knew right
away just by the title of it it was farce.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
You know what really upset me about that is when
I talked to Robert about it and he said, oh, yeah,
he was talking about that. That reporter was talking to
me all the time and like your best buddies and
all this, and then he turned around and did that.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
To him, you know, storry and so forth. Yeah, yeah,
totally nonsense.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, it's that was that was rather sad. But but
it's been a real pleasure. You're a fine gentleman, and
I'm so glad that I got to meet you in
California and you agreed to do this show. It's funny thing.
I left your card down in the card you gave
me down in South carolinam up in New Hampshire now
and but Robert was kind enough to give me your information.
(56:30):
But thanks so much, and I really appreciate you. Thank you,
thank you for your service back then, and most of all,
I want to thank you for actually getting up the
courage to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Yeah, it's been a real privilege to talk with you,
so thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Thanks a lot. Okay, take care all right everyone, so
don't forget to come back with us on Thursday night.
James Landolly, I'm still doing these two a week. We'll
see how it goes. It's been quite a bit of
extra work, but a lot of fun. I enjoy this
and thanks so much everyone, and remember, oh yeah, check
out our merchandise over at podcastufo dot com. And thanks
(57:09):
so much, and remember to keep your eyes to this
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