August 28, 2025 • 55 mins
In this exclusive interview, Martin Willis speaks with Gene and Natalja Sticco about a mysterious set of Soviet-era UFO research papers that surfaced within their family. Originating from Natalja's father, who was a so called "plumber". The papers, translated and available online, show remarkable consistency with official Soviet research methods—yet carry no explicit markings of authenticity. Gene and Natalja recount their journey of safeguarding the originals through a legal trust, the family ties hinting at their father-in-law’s connection to rumored Soviet UFO programs, and the challenges of balancing preservation, transparency, and security. We’ll explore: The unusual scientific details found in the documents Why experts say the math and science appear valid How Soviet-era research culture shaped the work The Sticcos’ personal story of discovery and responsibility Join us as we dive into one of the most intriguing intersections of UFO history, Cold War secrecy, and family legacy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hello, and welcome to the show. Great one for you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Tonight we have Gene and Natalia Sico coming up talking
about Soviet documents that are pretty interesting. So just before
I bring them in, I want to say next week,
next Tuesday, we have Mitch Randall on UAP detection, some
type of device he has.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Been working on.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
He has been on to talk about AI in the past,
but this is all about UAP UFOs and we'll have
him on again. That's next Tuesday, and the time is
nine pm next week. And also on Thursday, we have
Katie Page and she's gonna be talking about things like
high strangeness UFOs and even Snippy the horse. She's done
(01:08):
research in that and if anyone's ever heard that name before,
it's the first type of mutilation that was ever documented
and it was actually a horse. But she'll be talking
about that and a lot more. And that's next Thursday.
So I'd like to bring in our great guests and
welcome you to Thank nice to be thanks so much
(01:30):
for being here. And so I was contacted by Eugene
and not Eugene, but you Gene, and about these documents.
But can you tell fill us in on or either
one of you. Let's follow us on the how. First
of all, how did you find them? And how long
ago all that? And was it a surprise right off
(01:53):
the bat when you started looking through them and translating.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
The Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the short of it
is that it was twenty nineteen. We had been back
for about a year, just a year actually living in
the US. So I grew up in the Greater Boston area.
Left at eighteen and that was in nineteen ninety and
never came back until twenty eighteen when I brought my
(02:18):
lovely bride here and our son so he could finish school.
And yeah, it was basically, you know, a conversation she
had with her dad, and he said he was going
to send some documents over that our son might enjoy.
And within you know, within weeks he had taken ill,
(02:41):
faded fast, and was gone before we ever even opened them.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Wow. Wow, that's sad.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And so eventually you got to open them, And what
did you think?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I mean, honestly, I was shocked because I always thought
my father is a plumber who just has a side
geek writing some scientific papers. So that was like amazing, right,
Like we were of mesmerized.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Best uh, now, would did these have anything to do
with the Soviet government at the time when he was
writing these?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So it seems it seems so, I mean, this is
this is the culmination of you know, four going on
five years of research, you know, to go back to
those first couple of days of flipping through them, of
seeing the schematics of a UFO, of me asking her, well,
what exactly does it say? What is it it says
(03:37):
the UFO, the UFO AU, you know, all of that,
and going through the process of just number one, trying
to find some help. Maybe you know, we're again, we're
here in the Boston area. You'd figure there had to
be a Russian Russian physicist hanging out somewhere, you know,
for a cup of coffee, would have taken a look
(03:58):
and let us know. But it became a really a
painstaking process, but one that you know, we've learned more
about her dad than she knew about him when he
was alive, and so many things as we'd go through
this would come back to her about him that in
(04:19):
the moment didn't seem like anything and now has a
whole new meaning.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, as I'm scrolling through with what you have that
I just brought up on the screen. It does look
very very interesting. And so how you know, what did
you find out when you were getting this had you
had the right person looked at it, I mean you
went through all translation and everything, right, I.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Mean yeah, So so we started me literally glancing and
just trying to figure out in general what it is,
right And as a Geno Eddy mentioned, it literally said
how to construct you flow right, like if you just
go page by page and just try to summarize it
all right. There were also some sections which we're talking
about the evolution of the society, right, about the similarities
(05:11):
between USSR between USA, so about these big civilizations that
there is a cycle how they go and how they
develop and how they decline. Then there is a portion
of that which is literally right, like how to make
fuel right, like the nuclear fluid?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:27):
For me, even though I'm a native Russian speaker, right,
it's my mother tongue. For me, it was very difficult
to try to translate because I just don't know the
terminology was. Yes, I did physics, I studied it in
Russian and Latin, but I never studied it in English.
So that's why some of the terminology for me was
just like a puzzle, right and then Gene. So there
(05:48):
is actually a person who helped us with translating. So
it's Mario Fiallo. It's a very good friend, family friend,
and he's an IT engineer and he created an AI
actual model. He built it for making sure right like,
we translated the proper way. So all I had to
do is just very fine proofriate how like gus as
far as I understood. And there we are. So let's
(06:10):
say we're blessed that AI got involved into such a stage.
We were able to actually use it to translate some
of the portions, which even my brilliant brain sorry I'm
considering myself, you know, but we're we are happy we
had this tool just and with the help of our
friend to be able to make sure it all makes
sense and it does.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, I know. AI.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It's definitely a tool for all kinds of things, you know,
when it comes to things like this.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
And there's this case where.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
They call the I'm trying to remember what the name
of the memo is from Roswell just slip in my
mind right now. But there's a memo where they've been
trying to figure it out. For years, there was a
guy in San Francisco that had all this you know,
you know, software and stuff to try to understand and
it was taking guesses way back before AI of what
(07:04):
these words were saying. Yeah, but it looked like I
said crash and you know, things like that. And so
but my wonder is AI going to be able to
crack all that and really figure out what it is?
I know, some of what AI does is guessing. Some
of it is hallucinating. You know, I've actually had it
(07:26):
hallucinate because I use it through appraisals and things like that,
and I've had some things happen that very very funny.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
But for the we definitely, you know, we and we
recognized all that upfront, you know, so we we had
a very disciplined approach. So you know, there's sort of
the first run through it, there's comparisons against other models,
so I used multiple models again just generally sense check it.
(07:54):
We had the human validation to a degree. But even
with all that, there were there were things that you know,
we still kind of got stuck on and had to
make word choices. You know, anything with translation, it's not
you know, it's never a one to one, and the
(08:14):
more technically you get, I think, the more difficult to get. So,
for example, there's a word and people it's often the
one thing. You know, Russian speakers will point out there's
a word that literally translates to lightning ball but can
also mean plasma, and when you know, people are like, oh,
(08:35):
this is lightning ball. Well, but again in the greater
context of the documents, lightning ball doesn't make sense when
you you know, when you read it. And we've run
into some other things. Somebody who was a master of
electrical engineering was looking at some of the engineering notations
in there, and he's, well, why does you know, why
(08:57):
does this calculation have a three? Why does it have
a I said, that might not be a three. It's
in cyrillic. It's all written in cyrillic. So and we
spent in our dissecting ten characters as to whether they
were numbers or letters and how they would be.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So, yeah, a lot of time, a lot of time evolved.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So I'm sure you've heard, you know, a lot of
talk about the possibility of crash retrievals and reverse engineering.
This sounds not like that, This sounds like kind to construct.
But I'm just going to throw this at you. Do
you think it's possible that it's a reconstruct how to
maybe perhaps something was reverse engineered and this is how
(09:41):
it should be put together type of thing. Is there
any possibility of something like that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I think so. One of the one of the early
things I did was try and you know, organize a
timeline or chronology of some sort. So based on again
what we knew and what we could we could safely
assume time frames were around the periods of his education
and his working and whatnot, try to reconstruct the time
(10:11):
frame and look for cases within the former Soviet Union
that fit particular windows of potential craft he would have
access to. And you know, I just sort of did
it as my own little benchmark, not to you know,
try and actually uncover was it a specific craft or
(10:31):
was it part of a specific story. But the one
that seemed most likely had to do with what's called Capustaignar,
And by the assessments I was doing, it seemed the
drawings that existed of the craft that are associated with
that closely resembled even internally, what my father in law
(10:53):
was detailing, and so I kind of just you know,
put set it aside, you know, and just move forward.
And it was not long after I'd actually published the
book another author out of Texas was doing research into
the technical aspects of UFO phenomenon and all the different
(11:18):
works that existed. He was very excited to find the
book and he was. He sent me an email he
had thirty pictures of the Capustannar. He's like, I think
this is the craft. I think, And we wound up
speaking on the phone. Well that's you know, it's good.
It's a little bit of a sense check. So that's
the closest I have. The documents themselves don't give any
(11:41):
reference point as to the origins of what it is
that is being examined and detailed.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
And we also found out last week from my dad's girlfriend,
I think the last one it was dating before he died, right,
so we became friends with her. So turn out to
be he actually lived with my mother, which I mean
she never mentioned she might have, but you know, it
got lost that he actually had been living in a
(12:11):
while and working in the so called era fifty one
of the Soviet Union. So they don't have like I mean,
it's called prayers.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So yeah, it is military.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, it is military city famous. Yeah, so it's close.
It's one of the analogs of Area fifty one. So
I mean this probably might also indicate that.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, you know, it's a uh, there's all these things
when it comes to you know, national security with no
matter what country it is from.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So i'd be you know, it's kind.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Of shocking that he would have these, you know, these
documents to begin with, you know, out away from where
they were. I mean, if they were classified, perhaps these
were not classified.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
So that's my again going back and really digging into
the time period. And I tell so many people that's
important because they'll often try and compare things to now, well,
this didn't happen. Now, this happened in the nineteen eighties,
and it didn't happen in the US, it happened in
(13:15):
the USSR, and therese stark differences, and so you know
that was definitely contextualizing and seeing if it was consistent, right.
So you know, I always say the documents themselves bear
a lot of hallmarks that would indicate they were part
(13:38):
of and they are structured as official research was done
during that period. There's certain notations that he makes in
references that he makes to other previous works, and when
he references those previous works, he's referencing that they were
They are in the possession of the Douma, which is
(14:01):
a Russian parliament. So whoever is reading this by default
should have access to these other documents which are in
the Douma, and you know it. And as you go through,
if you look at it, that whole collection sort of
(14:21):
in a you know, all one hundred and nineteen pages,
just even on a giant screenshot, you'll see some of
them are not the originals but carbon copies, which, again
in the eighties, very calm, and so the typing and
everything is bluish, which indicates that it's the carbon copy.
(14:41):
So I certainly think it was part of a much
larger body of work, and generally the system was you
did your work, it went up to a superior and
then that's the point at which anything that had to
do with classifications began to happen.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Now, has anyone you said you had different people look
at this. Has anyone looked at it and said, well,
you know, that would make sense for lyft, or that
would make sense for some type of motion. Has anyone
come up with any conclusions along those lines?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Oh, there's I mean, there are tons of people who
look at it and that they have said, yes, this
makes sense. I mean some of some of the science
that's in there, is the science that's coming out now,
particularly you know these particularly out of Russia interestingly enough,
plasma engines and things like that. So there is you know,
(15:36):
real world science that we see come out of it.
You know. You know, some people say, well I don't
agree with this or that. Some people say, well, that's
not proper physics. And my challenge is that's fine, but
if we you know, if we built a roller coaster
on the Moon and then brought it to Earth, would
it work? No, So if it wasn't you know. And
(15:59):
so to me, the fact that the physics are primarily
based on known and accepted physics, but then they're altered
in certain ways, to me, doesn't make it wrong. I
think it actually strengthens the case because now he had
to mathematically figure out how to make it work within
(16:21):
what our understanding of it is. Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
There, I was just looking. Now there's a physicist who
had a idea. I'm probably not gonna be able to
find it while we're live here, but who had this
beam ahead like technology that was that he has come
up with by supposedly by seeing some craft or race.
(16:51):
There's a researcher passed away recently. Ray Stanford was involved
in that, and I know his last name is Mirabeau,
and he's someone that I definitely will try to get
you two connected because that that may be another you know,
path that may help uh, you know, I mean he's
a physicist and he would know what he's looking at
(17:11):
if it was translator right.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Right well, and that's you know, that's the whole thing.
That's why we did it the way we did. We
have the scan, we have the English translation, we've we
actually have a couple of volunteers who have come forward
who were you know, again science backgrounds, Russian speakers, who
are like, hey, I can tighten some of this up. Great.
So we'll probably have a second edition with some tighter translation,
(17:35):
with some more scientific explanation by some of the people
who have you know, been taking a dive into it.
But in the you know, the the epilogue of the
book is simply an invitation to the scientific community to
examine it and to decide. And as I said, I've
had I had somebody who was involved in like nuclear research,
Who's like, I'm going to write a grant because for
(17:57):
you know, thirty or forty million dollars, we can build
actually a testing facility for some of this stuff and
have that it. Yeah, that's what that's what it's there for.
But the you know, there's only so much I can
do and what I've done with it, Again, as much
as I've tried to disprove it, I can't. And you know,
(18:20):
I've found that the science in the book is directly
reflects and mirrors research that the US government has done
from the nineteen eighties through now. I've assessed that the
US has created defense programs that could counter from a
(18:44):
technological standpoint, the technology described in the book. So it's
kind of like, well, you know, if you're not if
you don't acknowledge this, you know the science or these
crafts exist, how did you wind up developing like six
programs that could specifically defeat this kind of craft that's described.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Mm hmm, very interesting. Yeah, yeah, this is this is
really really fun. So, uh lost my train of thought
for just a second. But I I personally was in
Russia many number of times, maybe four or five. Some
of the people that are longtime listeners, remember that I
get up at like four in the morning and do.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
My show live from there.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
While I was there, but and I found it really difficult.
It was in no Versisque. I don't know if you
know where that is, no verssisk right in the black seat.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
In the port.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, you see the navy vessels or whatever they are
in there and all that. So anyway, that's that's basically
where I was for the most part, correctly, all right,
black seat, right in the black seat, yep, which I
swim you know often. But uh so, anyway, I tried
to find people in the Russian UFO world there and
(20:05):
I had to really I finally found a couple and
they said, you know, one person said my English is
not good enough or whatever, but a couple of things.
So I think of George Knapp. He went over there
and did some work in Moscow. But also before I
get too carried away, I didn't want to lose this thought,
which was the thought that I lost for a minute.
(20:26):
Your father passed away. Did anyone go to see if
there's more documents and papers?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
So from what I have heard and found out, his
girlfriend has everything, which is related to the work. So
we are now texting with her. So she said, whatever
is left, she's gone to DHL. So she's just gathering
it all end, just making.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Oh so there may be some there may be some.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Work, maybe some more. Yeah, this is what we are.
I mean, she says, like, yeah, She's like, I first
make pictures of that and send to you. I said, like,
we don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I just hope the men in black don't come up
and take.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
It away, right because I mean that the house where
he was leaving it there is actually another government that
really is there. But I'm not sure whether she has
anything or work because I never interacted with her. But luckily, yeah,
all the scientific work is with another girlfriend, so hopefully.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, well that's interesting. But as far as people over there,
have you tried to work with anyone? I mean, I
know it's disjointed because you don't have control of it,
but I mean, have you thought about having someone look
at what's there?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Or would you just rather get it over here?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
I just rather have it here.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
I mean, and now with the whole war situation right, like,
it's just.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
It's really until the ship. You can't ship, Yeah, you
can't ship to Russia. Now you have to ship to
like Turkey, and then Turkey from Turkey to here that.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
RCT and this becomes like whole nightmare, right, I mean
at least good because the papers are in Kazakhstan. So
that's why Kazakhstan is a little bit easier to ship to.
I mean they have the DHL office. I think they
were never involved right in all this conflict, but overall,
like if you mean collaborating with some Russian scientists, yeah,
just because of the world this deal, unless you know,
(22:21):
until there is the piece deal, just forget it, it becomes
a nightmare, yea.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, idea.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I just wouldn't I asked you that question. I wasn't
even thinking about the war, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, because people become too political and I would say
political both ways. Right, there is very few people who
are balancing it out. They're just going extremes. And this
is what yeah kind of that's for sure complicated. Yeah,
you don't want to get into a political debate. You
just want to make it work, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And again right, you know, bottom line, like the like
the original papers you sent these here too, they're they're
they're familys, you know, they're therefore you know, there'll be
for our son, for his you know, he doesn't have
a whole lot from his grandfather, so you know, there's
a very personal connection to them too.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Now, so before you receive these documents and you look
through them, had you had an interest in the UFO topic,
or have you just jumped right in?
Speaker 4 (23:20):
I think you were more because you were you were
once in.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I was really like, I
love the ghost hunting shows, and most of those I
just loved because I think most of the people, you know,
kind of tools that are on them and they're they're
they're funny. But I find that, you know, the science
all that fascinating. Yeah, I've bringe some ancient aliens, you know,
on a weekend as I'm sitting working on things. But
you know, my when when these first dropped and we
(23:47):
were first like, okay, this really looks like it might
be something, you know, the first part was all right, well,
is there anything that's you know, is it just old
work and it's a nice family heirloom. Is there something
that adds to the academic discourse that perhaps somebody would
you know, want to take them and have them somewhere.
And then when it was really you know, becoming more apparent.
(24:11):
It's like, well, this looks like it's you know, all
things are connected, and this government related UFO reverse engineering
work in getting into the UFO community. I would have
been happy to have passed him on to anybody and said,
have at it, run with it. If something comes of
(24:31):
it and there's a party, make sure you invite us.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Yeah, And I'll tell you honestly, like Gene's into that
way much more than me. He's normally at all the
podcasts and all the shows, right, Like my whole deal
and all that is, I just learned about my father
because he turned out to be completely different human being,
like aside from what I knew growing up, right, who
(24:57):
I knew growing up and from my side, right, it's
more of a family history because again, right, if it
wasn't about Gene, wouldn't find like the whole part right,
like and all the side of the family I didn't know, right,
like who my grandgrandfather was from that side or everything, Right,
it would just because this is what I'm saying, it's
probably I mean, here you're retired, so at least it's
(25:19):
here another project. You know, it's better you do that
than just on the couch, exactly on the couch and
you know, get bored. So that's what I'm saying, right,
And like if it can if it helps somebody to actually,
you know, make something totally new and makes the civilization
(25:39):
go on another level of development, I mean, that's amazing.
That's why I say, for me, it's more of yeah,
learning this side of the family. While yeah, if if
it goes and I hope it goes very very big,
then at least yeah, I mean I'm all for helping
the human society.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, and again for my part, ye know, it's it
then it then it sort of became well, if you're
going to you know, if you're going to ignore me
and you're going to keep saying stupid things that I
know are now contrary, then you know, then now I'm
going to get involved and and and a lot of
it too, Martin. They made me start asking questions and
(26:20):
I come out of an intel background, and the you know,
silence speaks volumes from a lot of these key figures.
Who are you know, proponents and champions and if you
have evidence, come forward if you have anything, and there
were a lot of I felt inconsistencies in the well,
(26:47):
just in the basic communications, let's say, of that messaging
for somebody who was just you know, authentically reaching out
and saying, hey, I've got this thing. It looks kind
of strange, it looks related to this. You're the expert
on to talking about this every five minutes. Yet you know,
out of all of them, one wrote back to me,
(27:09):
who was quite honest and says, well, I can't you know,
I wish I knew, and I don't know anyone who
can help. And and the other one again, somebody had
a back channel and they sent me a screenshot and
this thing was, well, it's just over my head. Well,
so much for what you put out publicly about your
(27:30):
your experiences. If this is over your head, this should
be very consistent with anything you've seen. So they made
me start asking questions and now it's you know, now
it's kind of a personal thing for me in that sense. Again,
(27:51):
you know, I think I think all the disclosure movement,
I agree. Listen, there's there's people whose lives were ruined
over things they saw, what they were told. You know,
you can go through that and nauseum. And I think
if there are things, like Natalia said, that are able
(28:14):
to benefit humanity. Why are we not more actively pursuing
those things? And it's sort of to a point now
you're you know, we're being told you don't see what
you don't see. And and again I come from an
intel background, right, so I see patterns, I understand counter narratives,
(28:36):
I understand counterintelligence. I you know, everything I see starts
making me ask more and more questions. And that's why
I'm sort of into this so much. Plus just feeling
the responsibility. Well, I put a book out there, we
got to promote it. We got to you know, make
things accessible to people, and we've got to make the
information accessible. But again, if again I could, I could
(29:04):
walk away from it tomorrow and I'm just going to
go back to Yeah, but nothing I was doing, just
justsed to say, what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (29:16):
I said nothing time. This is what I'm saying. I'm
being honest with your mine. Right. It's not his first project.
I mean it's the first whole one, right, But whenever
he like emerges himself into understanding the root causes, right like,
he uncovers so much dirty stuff which you could never
imagine existed, right, and probably.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Right like, because I ruined since you've known.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
No, the thing is right like before, I mean, it's
probably a little bit of off tops. I don't want to
take the show time off right like, but when Jane,
I mean, my second career is opera singing, right. And
when he actually emerged in that from the perspective of
how to make it work, he uncovered blood the truth
of all that. It's like, you know, it's not that
(30:05):
it's told, it's not what makes it's not what people
think it is right, It's like, yes, it's a mafia.
It's like lots of like and he found it out.
You know, he actually had it mapped out. Who's connected
to who? You know, how somebody got casted? How somebody
I'm like, it's pretty impressive. And this is what I'm saying,
you know, whatever he actually does, he does like he
(30:27):
just emerges himself on one hundred percent and he just
falls all in.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
And with the background too, I mean, with your background.
I mean I think you know, I talked to a
number of police officers for one of the detectives and
things that have looked into the UFO topic, and I
like to hear their perspective because you know, they know
bs when they see it in so many ways. For
the most part, I want to say, and then they know,
(30:54):
you know what, you know how to dig the proper
ways to dig to get somewhere.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Thats why I say the whole, the whole crux is now,
you know, with especially the things that you know I
started putting together and you know, tried sending the conger
to the UAP Caucus and all the rest of it.
You know, I'm like, you're just asking the wrong questions.
You're asking the questions in the wrong way if you
change the line of questioning. And she can you know,
(31:23):
she can tell you our son when he was twelve,
you know, I had I had to asked him some
questions and he wasn't being truth. Well, I said, all right,
now we're going to do this the difficult way. And
by the end of it, when I got the truth,
I was laughing. I said. I followed that same path
with with organized crime figures, with terrorists, with murderers, I said,
(31:44):
And I said, now a twelve year old boy, I said.
You know the funny thing, I get the same amount
of satisfaction breaking a twelve year old boy as I
did break in any gangster, you know, just getting the
truth out of him.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yeah, that's what you know. Like again, right, I'm not
that much emergence genius, right, but from what I hear,
from what I see, right, whatever makes it to the news,
it's just whatever they want you to see and they
want you to believe it in right, because I assume
there is, yes, there is lots of right, lots of
other information out there like this book, and like there
(32:20):
are other researchers like ballaries, research and everything, right, which
doesn't make the news. And this is my biggest question,
just because there are some moderators or some gate keepers, right,
who don't want it to be public and to be discovered, right,
Because yeah, it's very similar to me, what's going on
in the opera world, right, Like I know in person
(32:41):
like great singers, and they're not just not getting any work, right,
That's what I'm just wondering, Right, is it a similar
situation here?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So there you can you can find parallels through through
from everything you're familiar with.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
But you know, as far as what I see, you.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Know, I'm a little confused because sometimes I think, you know,
there's like, for instance, there's another hearing coming up September ninth.
Unfortunately I've made the last two, but I can't make
this one. I've already had plans on Cape Cod and
all that. Pardon me, so, but you know, people are
saying they want more, you know, they want what do
(33:23):
they call it, They want the receipts.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
You know, we haven't had that.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Supposedly we're going to be having first hand witnesses. I'd
like to see what that is and and what happens.
But yeah, I do believe there is there's definitely some control.
There always has been control on the media and this
topic of UFOs for sure, you know, and where for
(33:45):
one thing, you know, there could be a lot of
explaining to do if they had to admit that, you know,
these things have been, that they're aware of these things,
you know, and that you know they know something about them.
I say on this show all the time, I think
it's possible that our government, the US government, knows more
(34:06):
than we do as a UFO community or anyone that's
researching this. But I don't think they have the full picture.
I really don't.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
No, Yeah, I agree, I agree, And you know, when
it comes to the whole the media aspect and the
whistle you know, what, what do I expect from the whistleblowers.
We're still going to have. We're going to have a
bunch more good stories. That's just going to generate a
bunch of you know, continued circular reporting about which reporter
reported it and what reporter wants to say? What about
the reporter that reported it? And you know, because that's
(34:35):
that's the mechanism that's that's been set up. And and
that's why I say, you know, I took I stepped
back and did the you know, two hundred thousand foot
view of all of that. It is. It is a
text book counter intelligence narrative structure. So you know, the
problem now where you know, the last few months, maybe
(34:58):
even you know, through the last g people ah, they're
losing interest, oh this and that, you know, and there's
these and now we're seeing all these kind of public conflicts.
This is because the initial approach, the counterintelligence narrative approach,
was focused on what's popularly called controlled disclosure that they're
going to you know, drip out over time. There's pressure valves,
(35:21):
you know, in the media and in the amplifiers. There
are dampeners, people who throw in the poo poos, they're
all you know, they're all in there, and then they
are tweaked accordingly to keep it, you know, try and
keep it balanced and keep the flow consistent. The problem
is it's become more popular, there's much faster flow of information.
(35:46):
There's less ability to control that flow of information in
the exchange of information, and so controlled disclosure began to
reach its its maximum capacity, so to speak. What's been happening,
I'd say, you know, really really deep down over the
last two months is they've begin and it's indicative in
(36:14):
the proposed the UAP Disclosure Act and that structure of it,
and everybody's going crazy about, oh, it's going to do this,
it's going to do that.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
That is a a.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
That's a new trigger for the government. So the controlled
disclosure has reached capacity. Now they have to transition to
what's called UH or move into what's called transition by design.
So the the plan now is greater institutional strength and
(36:47):
coordination on their ability to control the narrative, to roll
out the narrative, and it's all geared toward that this
idea of you know, they've got to take society on
this transitional journey for whatever the the moment is if
(37:09):
there is, I think it will be less of a
moment and more of a number of realizations that are
confirmed scientifically, you know, and things like that. But essentially
this period we're going into now is all about more
normalizing the attitudes, in normalizing the possibility for the very strict,
(37:35):
let's say, non believers.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, I've often thought like, if there was like all
of a sudden, a president doesn't matter current administration, past administration,
the next administration, whoever it is, said oh yes we
have you know, alien life wherever it is, or time
(37:58):
traveling or inter dimensional whatever it is, they are visiting us.
How many people would actually believe that? You know, there's
still a big fraction of people that wouldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Well exactly, I mean. And then you've got, you know,
you've got the factions that are just gonna say, oh,
it's demons and you know, it's yea and things like that.
You know, when it comes to the this is why
I try to stress when it comes to the political
side of this, and you know, the disclosure issue, what
you got to remember is nothing is going to happen
(38:29):
unless it's politically beneficial or expedient to whoever it is
that's that's in charge.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I hate to say it, but I agree.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah, I think we're in a good window now because
and I think a lot of this twenty twenty seven
talk though, I can say again based on my father
in law's work, that I believe the idea of there
being an undeniable realization would will happen from the second quarter,
(39:02):
you know, after the second quarter twenty twenty seven. But
I think all things are falling in line to also
give the political win to all of this. And what
that political win is is the if you recall the
nineteen fifty two Washington d c UFO incident. Now a
(39:24):
lot of that was to classified as part of Project
Blue Book, but it's also suspected and you know, high
confidence that there's a lot more to it that was
just classified under other things, and it wasn't captured in
the Project bluepoot piece twenty twenty seven mark seventy five years,
(39:44):
so we have the seventy five year automatic disclosure rule.
So when I started seeing Vance and Gabbard, and you know,
you see senior officials that are now addressing it or
drop dripping the that could be well, I've seen some stuff. Yeah, maybes,
I think again, this is all part of the setup.
(40:06):
So as we get into twenty twenty seven and those
records that would normally be declassified anyway, now there's a
political win. Now the president can say I the classified them,
I'm the guy, fancy is the guy whoever, whoever the
(40:26):
heir apparent becomes going into twenty twenty eight. But to
even get there, we still got to get through twenty
twenty six, which means all of this is going to
drop off the radar again. But if they've solidified the
Defense Act or the UAP Disclosure Act, then at least
they can sit back and say, well we've done something.
It brings it more into the public domain of potential
(40:49):
interests outside the core community. So it's a it's a
little bit political theater, it's a little bit expediency, but
it's you know, nothing's going to happen unless there's a
win in it.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I've had interesting people like you on the show. You know,
I had uh x c I ah John Carriaco before,
and I have had him on actually two times. But
I I have an opportunity now with your background to
ask you this question, and that is with your experience.
Do you see anyone maybe I shouldn't say anyone, do
(41:25):
you see uh markers of disinformation when it comes to
this top topic?
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean and it's you know,
I ran a little experiment myself using uh, you know,
web analytics and the social media, and I said things
intentionally to draw out some of those you know people
online let's say, but yes, there's a there there are,
(41:58):
I mean, there is a sophisticated's I mean, it's not
exclusive to this issue, it's just how it goes. But yes,
there there are people who are again set what I
said earlier, dampeners that when a message gets too big,
there are sudden, subtle dampeners who sort of put the
(42:19):
you know, or would otherwise call them trolls. And then
there are the people who sit in between. But I
can still that benefit from being a dampener one way,
you know, one way or another. So the old saying,
you know, follow the money is very true in this
(42:40):
case too. Right, where in for that information flow and
where it comes from and what the output of that
would be begins to tell you what the motivation. You know,
people's actions tell you what the motivations are after all
of it, and and so you know, there's always the
(43:02):
there's always the purse string aspect of it, depending on
you know, where where where they get that from that.
You know, there's always leverage. And it's a little bit
why I'm a wild card in all of this, you
know when I come out and try and talk to
the government, because there's no there's no leverage. There's nothing
(43:26):
you're going to give me. There's nothing you can take
from me. Hm hm. You know this isn't this is again.
If I wasn't doing this, I'd be you know, organizing
my cigars. I just got nothing better to do.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Okay, So the tell you have a question for you?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Uh did your your father you say you really had
no idea that he was involved in this type of
work that he was obviously doing. Do you what was
his background? Lai'd have this physics and all that. How
did he h Yeah, I'm interested to know how he
(44:06):
went that path and was able to do what he
was doing.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
Yeah, I'll be honest with you. Right, as a little girl,
I had suspicions. But back in the days, right, I
didn't watch right like James Bond. I was too young
and didn't read spy books. Right. So there were a
couple of weird moments which I remember as a kid. Right.
For example, Yeah, my father's official job was plumbing. However, right,
(44:34):
he used to be away for certain weeks, for certain
periods of times. Right, he used to take me to
his friends place and friends his friends were like, oh,
this was the daughter of diplom like of like an
diplomat like to France or something. So there were people
right like an ordinary plumber would not encounter depends yes,
(44:58):
and then yes and the final this is what which
which really showed me right, like I actually found a
pass to the Russian Dumo, which is literally their parliament, right,
and this was my right, like, this was my question
number one. I mean even as a kid, I understood, right,
like they don't need a plumber who they fly over
right from the Latria by playing right, like just to
(45:22):
do some plumbing. So this, this for me was always
there is something going on there. Of course he never told.
Of course he was very secret about that and very discrete. Right.
And then yeah, when I married Jin and yeah, he said,
this is probably how people who do some secret stuff
they operate. They should have a job.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
It's called told the story about when you were there
in twenty fifteen. Well, well, I was saying, I sent
you the CIA.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
Yeah, there was like there was I mean, there was
like lots of stuff, which is very, very weird. Right,
So it was back in twenty fifteen when actually, yeah,
I came to visit. He was a fifteen I think
it was a summer of sixteen, for summer of sixteen, right,
and and he was like, oh, you know, I signed
over like a CIA guy to watch over you. Is
(46:11):
it like your CIA guy who paid for all the
strip here? And this is before he met him. Yeah,
I was dating, but not close to say trust. It's
just so that's what I'm saying, right, So there were
like some moments with him which were very like, right,
like very I would say alarming, however, right like if
(46:31):
you ask about his education. So actually, this is something
we also learned last week based on the conversation with
his girlfriend. So it turned out to be all the
slave for physics, right. It came to him due to
an excellent teacher who he had in high school, right,
and turned out to be that this teacher. I mean
(46:52):
even they named the street after him in Alma Tip.
So that was like a very very big deal, right,
and yeah, turned out to be. My father dreamed of
being a pilot, but he didn't pass the medical So yeah,
he went into science and he after he graduated high school,
he entered that prestigious aircraft academy. So it was the
(47:14):
Civilian Aircraft Academy of the us SI. There were only
two of them, which were very very famous in the USSR.
Was one in Kharkiv, Ukraine, and another and wasn't regolatus.
So yeah, he graduated from there. I think he was
like engineering aircraft or something like that, like if you
ask about the exact major he had and then yeah,
and then this is what I also learned thanks to
(47:37):
his girlfriend. Yeah, he somehow landed in this area fifty
one like he was working there so and.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
The Russian equivalent of very fifty one.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
Russian and sorry, yeah I had at the time. At
the time, there were yeah, there were there are multiple, right,
like zones like that, and yeah, and the thing was
right like when USSR fell apart, right, all this, I
assume his hard work it vanished, right because the government changed. Right,
there were literally people who got lost, and they got
(48:10):
lost just because of the switch in the mindsets, right,
and what I'm talking about is right, it's just a
completely new life or majority of them, and this is
why lots of them died, lots of them drank their
minds off, you know, the whole like nineties in the
form former USA which was Russia ized that there were
people who became gangsters and just you know, went and
(48:31):
shot everyone. So yeah, this is what probably drove him
mental in sense of like, yes, all the ideas he had,
all the great work like he did, like nobody needed it,
right because again nobody knew it all fell apart, and
it all fell apart literally in a couple of years,
(48:51):
if not less, right, and he was such a person
that he wanted right like to do the work for
the government and for the benefit of that and then yeah,
and then he led it right after right and latter
was an independent country, so it was no longer matched
his values. And this is why, Yeah, I assume this
(49:16):
is how right like, this was probably a huge striategy
and it wasn't a huge strategy not only for him
but other millions and millions people who get who got
just lost because of this change.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, big change.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Right, I've talked to people about that over there, and uh,
you know it's funny how you know we think of
that was not so good. But there are a lot
of people that did not want that change to happen
for many reasons.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Her dad was one of them.
Speaker 4 (49:43):
I mean one of them.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
That's why we say, you know, I think he might
have felt initially if he's working in consacs on these
countries have fallen apart. He's like, all right, I'm going
to hold onto this and once everybody gets their minds
back and we have the party back in charge, you know,
I'm going to pick up work again. And it just
never happened.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
I think that's pretty interesting that Duma and Doma are
so close. They sound so much alike. That's basically a
home or a house and then a place as you
changed that little.
Speaker 4 (50:15):
That's right, yeah, the same lodging behind right.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, So we got about five minutes. So I think
it's fascinating. I hope that now. I do, remember, Gene,
when you initially contacted me, you did mention George Knapp
was he has he not been responsive to any of this?
Speaker 1 (50:36):
No, that's puzzling, you.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Told me, and again you know he you know, he Okay,
say it's very I think, very very disingenuous, to be
honest with you. You know, he finally threw a assistant
(51:02):
offered me an interview after again, the two times he
reached out to me were the two times I called
him out online.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
I've had to do the same thing. I've done the
same thing.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
That's all.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
We shouldn't get into it. But yeah, I've had some issues.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
And so he had an assistant offer me a to
go on the radio show with them they do. Was
it the you know, one am my time? I'm not
that into the subject. I don't need to sell any
books that I need to get up at one am.
But you know, I reply back, well, again a little
(51:40):
bit past my you know, my bedtime and whatnot, but
I'd be happy to pre record. And really, from throughout
the years, the number of times I've reached out, my
only question was this, is it consistent with what you've seen? Yeah,
that's I don't want to be on the show. I
(52:01):
don't want to sit down with Corbell. I don't want
to you know, I don't need a whole thing. That
was all I was seeking. Yeah, and and and so
that's why I say again, and you know, I could
go on for another hour about dissecting again. They made
me start asking questions. I'll just leave it at that,
(52:22):
So don't stand on a soapbox and tell the world
you are the champion of disclosure. You were going to
bring the truth out, you were gonna do all this,
and that they're not. They won't, they can't. And the
one who said it was over his head was napped.
(52:45):
So that's fine. I was happy to have a conversation
again just to this is what I've got. What can
you tell me about it? They made me start having
time to ask questions and then to offer me a
one am slot when I said, well, can we pre record?
Can we you know? Or can you just kind of
answer what I'm asking you and continue to get ignored?
(53:09):
You know again, maybe it means something different in Vegas,
but in Boston that speaks. That tells me you think
you're being a smart guy, and I'll put it out
I'm not the guy to be a smart guy with. MH.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Yeah, I've done too much in my life and too
much in my career. I'm not the guy to be
a smart guy with and think you're gonna out maneuver
and outflank me mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Well, it's been totally fascinating, this whole this whole thing.
I hope that, well, I will be in touch with
you and try to connect you to that physicist I
was talking to you about.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
I appreciate that, and I understand you might be up
at Exeter in a couple of weekends. I was thinking
that taking a ride up there.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Oh yeah, it's actually this coming weekend. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
this coming Sunday. I should have announced it Sunday. I'm
going to be actually a speaker at that conference Sunday afternoon.
But yeah, that's this this coming uh this coming weekend.
That'd be great to meet you.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Yeah, we have another friend who's going to be uh
be speaking as well there. So I think we're gonna
we'll take a ride up and she likes going to
sig hour and got to bring her to the I
gotta bring her to the rain so she can shoot
her machine guns and stuff.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
So oh wow, it's.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Not alone home country, right, Well, we don't will have
that far apart live right in ports with New Hampshire
and that this year really close. Yeah all right, well,
thank you both so much. It's been a real pleasure
and I really wish you luck. I hope you can
you know, get somewhere with this, uh, with these documents,
and I hope what's coming. You know, we may be
(54:42):
having another conversation, right, you know.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
Absolutely, And you know, and again to me, this is
this is out there for the community. I can't there's
really nothing I can do with any of this. And
you know, I've made it, made it as accessible as possible,
trying to show people how to use it, but it's
(55:05):
really out there for everybody, I mean, and that's what
we just want people to really, you know, learn to
use it because it has the answers.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
I think that's great. You're doing it that way, very good.
You're not looking for any riches for yourself, just to
get the information out there.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
So I like that.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
And anyway, thank you both, And so everyone remember we'll
be back on next Tuesday, and keep your eyes to
this
Hello, and welcome to the show. Great one for you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Tonight we have Gene and Natalia Sico coming up talking
about Soviet documents that are pretty interesting. So just before
I bring them in, I want to say next week,
next Tuesday, we have Mitch Randall on UAP detection, some
type of device he has.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Been working on.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
He has been on to talk about AI in the past,
but this is all about UAP UFOs and we'll have
him on again. That's next Tuesday, and the time is
nine pm next week. And also on Thursday, we have
Katie Page and she's gonna be talking about things like
high strangeness UFOs and even Snippy the horse. She's done
(01:08):
research in that and if anyone's ever heard that name before,
it's the first type of mutilation that was ever documented
and it was actually a horse. But she'll be talking
about that and a lot more. And that's next Thursday.
So I'd like to bring in our great guests and
welcome you to Thank nice to be thanks so much
(01:30):
for being here. And so I was contacted by Eugene
and not Eugene, but you Gene, and about these documents.
But can you tell fill us in on or either
one of you. Let's follow us on the how. First
of all, how did you find them? And how long
ago all that? And was it a surprise right off
(01:53):
the bat when you started looking through them and translating.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
The Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the short of it
is that it was twenty nineteen. We had been back
for about a year, just a year actually living in
the US. So I grew up in the Greater Boston area.
Left at eighteen and that was in nineteen ninety and
never came back until twenty eighteen when I brought my
(02:18):
lovely bride here and our son so he could finish school.
And yeah, it was basically, you know, a conversation she
had with her dad, and he said he was going
to send some documents over that our son might enjoy.
And within you know, within weeks he had taken ill,
(02:41):
faded fast, and was gone before we ever even opened them.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Wow. Wow, that's sad.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And so eventually you got to open them, And what
did you think?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I mean, honestly, I was shocked because I always thought
my father is a plumber who just has a side
geek writing some scientific papers. So that was like amazing, right,
Like we were of mesmerized.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Best uh, now, would did these have anything to do
with the Soviet government at the time when he was
writing these?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So it seems it seems so, I mean, this is
this is the culmination of you know, four going on
five years of research, you know, to go back to
those first couple of days of flipping through them, of
seeing the schematics of a UFO, of me asking her, well,
what exactly does it say? What is it it says
(03:37):
the UFO, the UFO AU, you know, all of that,
and going through the process of just number one, trying
to find some help. Maybe you know, we're again, we're
here in the Boston area. You'd figure there had to
be a Russian Russian physicist hanging out somewhere, you know,
for a cup of coffee, would have taken a look
(03:58):
and let us know. But it became a really a
painstaking process, but one that you know, we've learned more
about her dad than she knew about him when he
was alive, and so many things as we'd go through
this would come back to her about him that in
(04:19):
the moment didn't seem like anything and now has a
whole new meaning.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, as I'm scrolling through with what you have that
I just brought up on the screen. It does look
very very interesting. And so how you know, what did
you find out when you were getting this had you
had the right person looked at it, I mean you
went through all translation and everything, right, I.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Mean yeah, So so we started me literally glancing and
just trying to figure out in general what it is,
right And as a Geno Eddy mentioned, it literally said
how to construct you flow right, like if you just
go page by page and just try to summarize it
all right. There were also some sections which we're talking
about the evolution of the society, right, about the similarities
(05:11):
between USSR between USA, so about these big civilizations that
there is a cycle how they go and how they
develop and how they decline. Then there is a portion
of that which is literally right, like how to make
fuel right, like the nuclear fluid?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (05:27):
For me, even though I'm a native Russian speaker, right,
it's my mother tongue. For me, it was very difficult
to try to translate because I just don't know the
terminology was. Yes, I did physics, I studied it in
Russian and Latin, but I never studied it in English.
So that's why some of the terminology for me was
just like a puzzle, right and then Gene. So there
(05:48):
is actually a person who helped us with translating. So
it's Mario Fiallo. It's a very good friend, family friend,
and he's an IT engineer and he created an AI
actual model. He built it for making sure right like,
we translated the proper way. So all I had to
do is just very fine proofriate how like gus as
far as I understood. And there we are. So let's
(06:10):
say we're blessed that AI got involved into such a stage.
We were able to actually use it to translate some
of the portions, which even my brilliant brain sorry I'm
considering myself, you know, but we're we are happy we
had this tool just and with the help of our
friend to be able to make sure it all makes
sense and it does.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, I know. AI.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
It's definitely a tool for all kinds of things, you know,
when it comes to things like this.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
And there's this case where.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
They call the I'm trying to remember what the name
of the memo is from Roswell just slip in my
mind right now. But there's a memo where they've been
trying to figure it out. For years, there was a
guy in San Francisco that had all this you know,
you know, software and stuff to try to understand and
it was taking guesses way back before AI of what
(07:04):
these words were saying. Yeah, but it looked like I
said crash and you know, things like that. And so
but my wonder is AI going to be able to
crack all that and really figure out what it is?
I know, some of what AI does is guessing. Some
of it is hallucinating. You know, I've actually had it
(07:26):
hallucinate because I use it through appraisals and things like that,
and I've had some things happen that very very funny.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
But for the we definitely, you know, we and we
recognized all that upfront, you know, so we we had
a very disciplined approach. So you know, there's sort of
the first run through it, there's comparisons against other models,
so I used multiple models again just generally sense check it.
(07:54):
We had the human validation to a degree. But even
with all that, there were there were things that you know,
we still kind of got stuck on and had to
make word choices. You know, anything with translation, it's not
you know, it's never a one to one, and the
(08:14):
more technically you get, I think, the more difficult to get. So,
for example, there's a word and people it's often the
one thing. You know, Russian speakers will point out there's
a word that literally translates to lightning ball but can
also mean plasma, and when you know, people are like, oh,
(08:35):
this is lightning ball. Well, but again in the greater
context of the documents, lightning ball doesn't make sense when
you you know, when you read it. And we've run
into some other things. Somebody who was a master of
electrical engineering was looking at some of the engineering notations
in there, and he's, well, why does you know, why
(08:57):
does this calculation have a three? Why does it have
a I said, that might not be a three. It's
in cyrillic. It's all written in cyrillic. So and we
spent in our dissecting ten characters as to whether they
were numbers or letters and how they would be.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So, yeah, a lot of time, a lot of time evolved.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So I'm sure you've heard, you know, a lot of
talk about the possibility of crash retrievals and reverse engineering.
This sounds not like that, This sounds like kind to construct.
But I'm just going to throw this at you. Do
you think it's possible that it's a reconstruct how to
maybe perhaps something was reverse engineered and this is how
(09:41):
it should be put together type of thing. Is there
any possibility of something like that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I think so. One of the one of the early
things I did was try and you know, organize a
timeline or chronology of some sort. So based on again
what we knew and what we could we could safely
assume time frames were around the periods of his education
and his working and whatnot, try to reconstruct the time
(10:11):
frame and look for cases within the former Soviet Union
that fit particular windows of potential craft he would have
access to. And you know, I just sort of did
it as my own little benchmark, not to you know,
try and actually uncover was it a specific craft or
(10:31):
was it part of a specific story. But the one
that seemed most likely had to do with what's called Capustaignar,
And by the assessments I was doing, it seemed the
drawings that existed of the craft that are associated with
that closely resembled even internally, what my father in law
(10:53):
was detailing, and so I kind of just you know,
put set it aside, you know, and just move forward.
And it was not long after I'd actually published the
book another author out of Texas was doing research into
the technical aspects of UFO phenomenon and all the different
(11:18):
works that existed. He was very excited to find the
book and he was. He sent me an email he
had thirty pictures of the Capustannar. He's like, I think
this is the craft. I think, And we wound up
speaking on the phone. Well that's you know, it's good.
It's a little bit of a sense check. So that's
the closest I have. The documents themselves don't give any
(11:41):
reference point as to the origins of what it is
that is being examined and detailed.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
And we also found out last week from my dad's girlfriend,
I think the last one it was dating before he died, right,
so we became friends with her. So turn out to
be he actually lived with my mother, which I mean
she never mentioned she might have, but you know, it
got lost that he actually had been living in a
(12:11):
while and working in the so called era fifty one
of the Soviet Union. So they don't have like I mean,
it's called prayers.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So yeah, it is military.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, it is military city famous. Yeah, so it's close.
It's one of the analogs of Area fifty one. So
I mean this probably might also indicate that.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, you know, it's a uh, there's all these things
when it comes to you know, national security with no
matter what country it is from.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So i'd be you know, it's kind.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Of shocking that he would have these, you know, these
documents to begin with, you know, out away from where
they were. I mean, if they were classified, perhaps these
were not classified.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
So that's my again going back and really digging into
the time period. And I tell so many people that's
important because they'll often try and compare things to now, well,
this didn't happen. Now, this happened in the nineteen eighties,
and it didn't happen in the US, it happened in
(13:15):
the USSR, and therese stark differences, and so you know
that was definitely contextualizing and seeing if it was consistent, right.
So you know, I always say the documents themselves bear
a lot of hallmarks that would indicate they were part
(13:38):
of and they are structured as official research was done
during that period. There's certain notations that he makes in
references that he makes to other previous works, and when
he references those previous works, he's referencing that they were
They are in the possession of the Douma, which is
(14:01):
a Russian parliament. So whoever is reading this by default
should have access to these other documents which are in
the Douma, and you know it. And as you go through,
if you look at it, that whole collection sort of
(14:21):
in a you know, all one hundred and nineteen pages,
just even on a giant screenshot, you'll see some of
them are not the originals but carbon copies, which, again
in the eighties, very calm, and so the typing and
everything is bluish, which indicates that it's the carbon copy.
(14:41):
So I certainly think it was part of a much
larger body of work, and generally the system was you
did your work, it went up to a superior and
then that's the point at which anything that had to
do with classifications began to happen.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Now, has anyone you said you had different people look
at this. Has anyone looked at it and said, well,
you know, that would make sense for lyft, or that
would make sense for some type of motion. Has anyone
come up with any conclusions along those lines?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Oh, there's I mean, there are tons of people who
look at it and that they have said, yes, this
makes sense. I mean some of some of the science
that's in there, is the science that's coming out now,
particularly you know these particularly out of Russia interestingly enough,
plasma engines and things like that. So there is you know,
(15:36):
real world science that we see come out of it.
You know. You know, some people say, well I don't
agree with this or that. Some people say, well, that's
not proper physics. And my challenge is that's fine, but
if we you know, if we built a roller coaster
on the Moon and then brought it to Earth, would
it work? No, So if it wasn't you know. And
(15:59):
so to me, the fact that the physics are primarily
based on known and accepted physics, but then they're altered
in certain ways, to me, doesn't make it wrong. I
think it actually strengthens the case because now he had
to mathematically figure out how to make it work within
(16:21):
what our understanding of it is. Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
There, I was just looking. Now there's a physicist who
had a idea. I'm probably not gonna be able to
find it while we're live here, but who had this
beam ahead like technology that was that he has come
up with by supposedly by seeing some craft or race.
(16:51):
There's a researcher passed away recently. Ray Stanford was involved
in that, and I know his last name is Mirabeau,
and he's someone that I definitely will try to get
you two connected because that that may be another you know,
path that may help uh, you know, I mean he's
a physicist and he would know what he's looking at
(17:11):
if it was translator right.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Right well, and that's you know, that's the whole thing.
That's why we did it the way we did. We
have the scan, we have the English translation, we've we
actually have a couple of volunteers who have come forward
who were you know, again science backgrounds, Russian speakers, who
are like, hey, I can tighten some of this up. Great.
So we'll probably have a second edition with some tighter translation,
(17:35):
with some more scientific explanation by some of the people
who have you know, been taking a dive into it.
But in the you know, the the epilogue of the
book is simply an invitation to the scientific community to
examine it and to decide. And as I said, I've
had I had somebody who was involved in like nuclear research,
Who's like, I'm going to write a grant because for
(17:57):
you know, thirty or forty million dollars, we can build
actually a testing facility for some of this stuff and
have that it. Yeah, that's what that's what it's there for.
But the you know, there's only so much I can
do and what I've done with it, Again, as much
as I've tried to disprove it, I can't. And you know,
(18:20):
I've found that the science in the book is directly
reflects and mirrors research that the US government has done
from the nineteen eighties through now. I've assessed that the
US has created defense programs that could counter from a
(18:44):
technological standpoint, the technology described in the book. So it's
kind of like, well, you know, if you're not if
you don't acknowledge this, you know the science or these
crafts exist, how did you wind up developing like six
programs that could specifically defeat this kind of craft that's described.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Mm hmm, very interesting. Yeah, yeah, this is this is
really really fun. So, uh lost my train of thought
for just a second. But I I personally was in
Russia many number of times, maybe four or five. Some
of the people that are longtime listeners, remember that I
get up at like four in the morning and do.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
My show live from there.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
While I was there, but and I found it really difficult.
It was in no Versisque. I don't know if you
know where that is, no verssisk right in the black seat.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
In the port.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, you see the navy vessels or whatever they are
in there and all that. So anyway, that's that's basically
where I was for the most part, correctly, all right,
black seat, right in the black seat, yep, which I
swim you know often. But uh so, anyway, I tried
to find people in the Russian UFO world there and
(20:05):
I had to really I finally found a couple and
they said, you know, one person said my English is
not good enough or whatever, but a couple of things.
So I think of George Knapp. He went over there
and did some work in Moscow. But also before I
get too carried away, I didn't want to lose this thought,
which was the thought that I lost for a minute.
(20:26):
Your father passed away. Did anyone go to see if
there's more documents and papers?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
So from what I have heard and found out, his
girlfriend has everything, which is related to the work. So
we are now texting with her. So she said, whatever
is left, she's gone to DHL. So she's just gathering
it all end, just making.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Oh so there may be some there may be some.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Work, maybe some more. Yeah, this is what we are.
I mean, she says, like, yeah, She's like, I first
make pictures of that and send to you. I said, like,
we don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I just hope the men in black don't come up
and take.
Speaker 5 (21:03):
It away, right because I mean that the house where
he was leaving it there is actually another government that
really is there. But I'm not sure whether she has
anything or work because I never interacted with her. But luckily, yeah,
all the scientific work is with another girlfriend, so hopefully.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, well that's interesting. But as far as people over there,
have you tried to work with anyone? I mean, I
know it's disjointed because you don't have control of it,
but I mean, have you thought about having someone look
at what's there?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Or would you just rather get it over here?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
I just rather have it here.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
I mean, and now with the whole war situation right, like,
it's just.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
It's really until the ship. You can't ship, Yeah, you
can't ship to Russia. Now you have to ship to
like Turkey, and then Turkey from Turkey to here that.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
RCT and this becomes like whole nightmare, right, I mean
at least good because the papers are in Kazakhstan. So
that's why Kazakhstan is a little bit easier to ship to.
I mean they have the DHL office. I think they
were never involved right in all this conflict, but overall,
like if you mean collaborating with some Russian scientists, yeah,
just because of the world this deal, unless you know,
(22:21):
until there is the piece deal, just forget it, it becomes
a nightmare, yea.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, idea.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I just wouldn't I asked you that question. I wasn't
even thinking about the war, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Yeah, because people become too political and I would say
political both ways. Right, there is very few people who
are balancing it out. They're just going extremes. And this
is what yeah kind of that's for sure complicated. Yeah,
you don't want to get into a political debate. You
just want to make it work, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
And again right, you know, bottom line, like the like
the original papers you sent these here too, they're they're
they're familys, you know, they're therefore you know, there'll be
for our son, for his you know, he doesn't have
a whole lot from his grandfather, so you know, there's
a very personal connection to them too.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Now, so before you receive these documents and you look
through them, had you had an interest in the UFO topic,
or have you just jumped right in?
Speaker 4 (23:20):
I think you were more because you were you were
once in.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I was really like, I
love the ghost hunting shows, and most of those I
just loved because I think most of the people, you know,
kind of tools that are on them and they're they're
they're funny. But I find that, you know, the science
all that fascinating. Yeah, I've bringe some ancient aliens, you know,
on a weekend as I'm sitting working on things. But
you know, my when when these first dropped and we
(23:47):
were first like, okay, this really looks like it might
be something, you know, the first part was all right, well,
is there anything that's you know, is it just old
work and it's a nice family heirloom. Is there something
that adds to the academic discourse that perhaps somebody would
you know, want to take them and have them somewhere.
And then when it was really you know, becoming more apparent.
(24:11):
It's like, well, this looks like it's you know, all
things are connected, and this government related UFO reverse engineering
work in getting into the UFO community. I would have
been happy to have passed him on to anybody and said,
have at it, run with it. If something comes of
(24:31):
it and there's a party, make sure you invite us.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Yeah, And I'll tell you honestly, like Gene's into that
way much more than me. He's normally at all the
podcasts and all the shows, right, Like my whole deal
and all that is, I just learned about my father
because he turned out to be completely different human being,
like aside from what I knew growing up, right, who
(24:57):
I knew growing up and from my side, right, it's
more of a family history because again, right, if it
wasn't about Gene, wouldn't find like the whole part right,
like and all the side of the family I didn't know, right,
like who my grandgrandfather was from that side or everything, Right,
it would just because this is what I'm saying, it's
probably I mean, here you're retired, so at least it's
(25:19):
here another project. You know, it's better you do that
than just on the couch, exactly on the couch and
you know, get bored. So that's what I'm saying, right,
And like if it can if it helps somebody to actually,
you know, make something totally new and makes the civilization
(25:39):
go on another level of development, I mean, that's amazing.
That's why I say, for me, it's more of yeah,
learning this side of the family. While yeah, if if
it goes and I hope it goes very very big,
then at least yeah, I mean I'm all for helping
the human society.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, and again for my part, ye know, it's it
then it then it sort of became well, if you're
going to you know, if you're going to ignore me
and you're going to keep saying stupid things that I
know are now contrary, then you know, then now I'm
going to get involved and and and a lot of
it too, Martin. They made me start asking questions and
(26:20):
I come out of an intel background, and the you know,
silence speaks volumes from a lot of these key figures.
Who are you know, proponents and champions and if you
have evidence, come forward if you have anything, and there
were a lot of I felt inconsistencies in the well,
(26:47):
just in the basic communications, let's say, of that messaging
for somebody who was just you know, authentically reaching out
and saying, hey, I've got this thing. It looks kind
of strange, it looks related to this. You're the expert
on to talking about this every five minutes. Yet you know,
out of all of them, one wrote back to me,
(27:09):
who was quite honest and says, well, I can't you know,
I wish I knew, and I don't know anyone who
can help. And and the other one again, somebody had
a back channel and they sent me a screenshot and
this thing was, well, it's just over my head. Well,
so much for what you put out publicly about your
(27:30):
your experiences. If this is over your head, this should
be very consistent with anything you've seen. So they made
me start asking questions and now it's you know, now
it's kind of a personal thing for me in that sense. Again,
(27:51):
you know, I think I think all the disclosure movement,
I agree. Listen, there's there's people whose lives were ruined
over things they saw, what they were told. You know,
you can go through that and nauseum. And I think
if there are things, like Natalia said, that are able
(28:14):
to benefit humanity. Why are we not more actively pursuing
those things? And it's sort of to a point now
you're you know, we're being told you don't see what
you don't see. And and again I come from an
intel background, right, so I see patterns, I understand counter narratives,
(28:36):
I understand counterintelligence. I you know, everything I see starts
making me ask more and more questions. And that's why
I'm sort of into this so much. Plus just feeling
the responsibility. Well, I put a book out there, we
got to promote it. We got to you know, make
things accessible to people, and we've got to make the
information accessible. But again, if again I could, I could
(29:04):
walk away from it tomorrow and I'm just going to
go back to Yeah, but nothing I was doing, just
justsed to say, what are you doing?
Speaker 4 (29:16):
I said nothing time. This is what I'm saying. I'm
being honest with your mine. Right. It's not his first project.
I mean it's the first whole one, right, But whenever
he like emerges himself into understanding the root causes, right like,
he uncovers so much dirty stuff which you could never
imagine existed, right, and probably.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Right like, because I ruined since you've known.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
No, the thing is right like before, I mean, it's
probably a little bit of off tops. I don't want to
take the show time off right like, but when Jane,
I mean, my second career is opera singing, right. And
when he actually emerged in that from the perspective of
how to make it work, he uncovered blood the truth
of all that. It's like, you know, it's not that
(30:05):
it's told, it's not what makes it's not what people
think it is right, It's like, yes, it's a mafia.
It's like lots of like and he found it out.
You know, he actually had it mapped out. Who's connected
to who? You know, how somebody got casted? How somebody
I'm like, it's pretty impressive. And this is what I'm saying,
you know, whatever he actually does, he does like he
(30:27):
just emerges himself on one hundred percent and he just
falls all in.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
And with the background too, I mean, with your background.
I mean I think you know, I talked to a
number of police officers for one of the detectives and
things that have looked into the UFO topic, and I
like to hear their perspective because you know, they know
bs when they see it in so many ways. For
the most part, I want to say, and then they know,
(30:54):
you know what, you know how to dig the proper
ways to dig to get somewhere.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Thats why I say the whole, the whole crux is now,
you know, with especially the things that you know I
started putting together and you know, tried sending the conger
to the UAP Caucus and all the rest of it.
You know, I'm like, you're just asking the wrong questions.
You're asking the questions in the wrong way if you
change the line of questioning. And she can you know,
(31:23):
she can tell you our son when he was twelve,
you know, I had I had to asked him some
questions and he wasn't being truth. Well, I said, all right,
now we're going to do this the difficult way. And
by the end of it, when I got the truth,
I was laughing. I said. I followed that same path
with with organized crime figures, with terrorists, with murderers, I said,
(31:44):
And I said, now a twelve year old boy, I said.
You know the funny thing, I get the same amount
of satisfaction breaking a twelve year old boy as I
did break in any gangster, you know, just getting the
truth out of him.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yeah, that's what you know. Like again, right, I'm not
that much emergence genius, right, but from what I hear,
from what I see, right, whatever makes it to the news,
it's just whatever they want you to see and they
want you to believe it in right, because I assume
there is, yes, there is lots of right, lots of
other information out there like this book, and like there
(32:20):
are other researchers like ballaries, research and everything, right, which
doesn't make the news. And this is my biggest question,
just because there are some moderators or some gate keepers, right,
who don't want it to be public and to be discovered, right,
Because yeah, it's very similar to me, what's going on
in the opera world, right, Like I know in person
(32:41):
like great singers, and they're not just not getting any work, right,
That's what I'm just wondering, Right, is it a similar
situation here?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So there you can you can find parallels through through
from everything you're familiar with.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
But you know, as far as what I see, you.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Know, I'm a little confused because sometimes I think, you know,
there's like, for instance, there's another hearing coming up September ninth.
Unfortunately I've made the last two, but I can't make
this one. I've already had plans on Cape Cod and
all that. Pardon me, so, but you know, people are
saying they want more, you know, they want what do
(33:23):
they call it, They want the receipts.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
You know, we haven't had that.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Supposedly we're going to be having first hand witnesses. I'd
like to see what that is and and what happens.
But yeah, I do believe there is there's definitely some control.
There always has been control on the media and this
topic of UFOs for sure, you know, and where for
(33:45):
one thing, you know, there could be a lot of
explaining to do if they had to admit that, you know,
these things have been, that they're aware of these things,
you know, and that you know they know something about them.
I say on this show all the time, I think
it's possible that our government, the US government, knows more
(34:06):
than we do as a UFO community or anyone that's
researching this. But I don't think they have the full picture.
I really don't.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
No, Yeah, I agree, I agree, And you know, when
it comes to the whole the media aspect and the
whistle you know, what, what do I expect from the whistleblowers.
We're still going to have. We're going to have a
bunch more good stories. That's just going to generate a
bunch of you know, continued circular reporting about which reporter
reported it and what reporter wants to say? What about
the reporter that reported it? And you know, because that's
(34:35):
that's the mechanism that's that's been set up. And and
that's why I say, you know, I took I stepped
back and did the you know, two hundred thousand foot
view of all of that. It is. It is a
text book counter intelligence narrative structure. So you know, the
problem now where you know, the last few months, maybe
(34:58):
even you know, through the last g people ah, they're
losing interest, oh this and that, you know, and there's
these and now we're seeing all these kind of public conflicts.
This is because the initial approach, the counterintelligence narrative approach,
was focused on what's popularly called controlled disclosure that they're
going to you know, drip out over time. There's pressure valves,
(35:21):
you know, in the media and in the amplifiers. There
are dampeners, people who throw in the poo poos, they're
all you know, they're all in there, and then they
are tweaked accordingly to keep it, you know, try and
keep it balanced and keep the flow consistent. The problem
is it's become more popular, there's much faster flow of information.
(35:46):
There's less ability to control that flow of information in
the exchange of information, and so controlled disclosure began to
reach its its maximum capacity, so to speak. What's been happening,
I'd say, you know, really really deep down over the
last two months is they've begin and it's indicative in
(36:14):
the proposed the UAP Disclosure Act and that structure of it,
and everybody's going crazy about, oh, it's going to do this,
it's going to do that.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
That is a a.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
That's a new trigger for the government. So the controlled
disclosure has reached capacity. Now they have to transition to
what's called UH or move into what's called transition by design.
So the the plan now is greater institutional strength and
(36:47):
coordination on their ability to control the narrative, to roll
out the narrative, and it's all geared toward that this
idea of you know, they've got to take society on
this transitional journey for whatever the the moment is if
(37:09):
there is, I think it will be less of a
moment and more of a number of realizations that are
confirmed scientifically, you know, and things like that. But essentially
this period we're going into now is all about more
normalizing the attitudes, in normalizing the possibility for the very strict,
(37:35):
let's say, non believers.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, I've often thought like, if there was like all
of a sudden, a president doesn't matter current administration, past administration,
the next administration, whoever it is, said oh yes we
have you know, alien life wherever it is, or time
(37:58):
traveling or inter dimensional whatever it is, they are visiting us.
How many people would actually believe that? You know, there's
still a big fraction of people that wouldn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Well exactly, I mean. And then you've got, you know,
you've got the factions that are just gonna say, oh,
it's demons and you know, it's yea and things like that.
You know, when it comes to the this is why
I try to stress when it comes to the political
side of this, and you know, the disclosure issue, what
you got to remember is nothing is going to happen
(38:29):
unless it's politically beneficial or expedient to whoever it is
that's that's in charge.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
I hate to say it, but I agree.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah, I think we're in a good window now because
and I think a lot of this twenty twenty seven
talk though, I can say again based on my father
in law's work, that I believe the idea of there
being an undeniable realization would will happen from the second quarter,
(39:02):
you know, after the second quarter twenty twenty seven. But
I think all things are falling in line to also
give the political win to all of this. And what
that political win is is the if you recall the
nineteen fifty two Washington d c UFO incident. Now a
(39:24):
lot of that was to classified as part of Project
Blue Book, but it's also suspected and you know, high
confidence that there's a lot more to it that was
just classified under other things, and it wasn't captured in
the Project bluepoot piece twenty twenty seven mark seventy five years,
(39:44):
so we have the seventy five year automatic disclosure rule.
So when I started seeing Vance and Gabbard, and you know,
you see senior officials that are now addressing it or
drop dripping the that could be well, I've seen some stuff. Yeah, maybes,
I think again, this is all part of the setup.
(40:06):
So as we get into twenty twenty seven and those
records that would normally be declassified anyway, now there's a
political win. Now the president can say I the classified them,
I'm the guy, fancy is the guy whoever, whoever the
(40:26):
heir apparent becomes going into twenty twenty eight. But to
even get there, we still got to get through twenty
twenty six, which means all of this is going to
drop off the radar again. But if they've solidified the
Defense Act or the UAP Disclosure Act, then at least
they can sit back and say, well we've done something.
It brings it more into the public domain of potential
(40:49):
interests outside the core community. So it's a it's a
little bit political theater, it's a little bit expediency, but
it's you know, nothing's going to happen unless there's a
win in it.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
I've had interesting people like you on the show. You know,
I had uh x c I ah John Carriaco before,
and I have had him on actually two times. But
I I have an opportunity now with your background to
ask you this question, and that is with your experience.
Do you see anyone maybe I shouldn't say anyone, do
(41:25):
you see uh markers of disinformation when it comes to
this top topic?
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean and it's you know,
I ran a little experiment myself using uh, you know,
web analytics and the social media, and I said things
intentionally to draw out some of those you know people
online let's say, but yes, there's a there there are,
(41:58):
I mean, there is a sophisticated's I mean, it's not
exclusive to this issue, it's just how it goes. But yes,
there there are people who are again set what I
said earlier, dampeners that when a message gets too big,
there are sudden, subtle dampeners who sort of put the
(42:19):
you know, or would otherwise call them trolls. And then
there are the people who sit in between. But I
can still that benefit from being a dampener one way,
you know, one way or another. So the old saying,
you know, follow the money is very true in this
(42:40):
case too. Right, where in for that information flow and
where it comes from and what the output of that
would be begins to tell you what the motivation. You know,
people's actions tell you what the motivations are after all
of it, and and so you know, there's always the
(43:02):
there's always the purse string aspect of it, depending on
you know, where where where they get that from that.
You know, there's always leverage. And it's a little bit
why I'm a wild card in all of this, you
know when I come out and try and talk to
the government, because there's no there's no leverage. There's nothing
(43:26):
you're going to give me. There's nothing you can take
from me. Hm hm. You know this isn't this is again.
If I wasn't doing this, I'd be you know, organizing
my cigars. I just got nothing better to do.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Okay, So the tell you have a question for you?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Uh did your your father you say you really had
no idea that he was involved in this type of
work that he was obviously doing. Do you what was
his background? Lai'd have this physics and all that. How
did he h Yeah, I'm interested to know how he
(44:06):
went that path and was able to do what he
was doing.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
Yeah, I'll be honest with you. Right, as a little girl,
I had suspicions. But back in the days, right, I
didn't watch right like James Bond. I was too young
and didn't read spy books. Right. So there were a
couple of weird moments which I remember as a kid. Right.
For example, Yeah, my father's official job was plumbing. However, right,
(44:34):
he used to be away for certain weeks, for certain
periods of times. Right, he used to take me to
his friends place and friends his friends were like, oh,
this was the daughter of diplom like of like an
diplomat like to France or something. So there were people
right like an ordinary plumber would not encounter depends yes,
(44:58):
and then yes and the final this is what which
which really showed me right, like I actually found a
pass to the Russian Dumo, which is literally their parliament, right,
and this was my right, like, this was my question
number one. I mean even as a kid, I understood, right,
like they don't need a plumber who they fly over
right from the Latria by playing right, like just to
(45:22):
do some plumbing. So this, this for me was always
there is something going on there. Of course he never told.
Of course he was very secret about that and very discrete. Right.
And then yeah, when I married Jin and yeah, he said,
this is probably how people who do some secret stuff
they operate. They should have a job.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
It's called told the story about when you were there
in twenty fifteen. Well, well, I was saying, I sent
you the CIA.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
Yeah, there was like there was I mean, there was
like lots of stuff, which is very, very weird. Right,
So it was back in twenty fifteen when actually, yeah,
I came to visit. He was a fifteen I think
it was a summer of sixteen, for summer of sixteen, right,
and and he was like, oh, you know, I signed
over like a CIA guy to watch over you. Is
(46:11):
it like your CIA guy who paid for all the
strip here? And this is before he met him. Yeah,
I was dating, but not close to say trust. It's
just so that's what I'm saying, right, So there were
like some moments with him which were very like, right,
like very I would say alarming, however, right like if
(46:31):
you ask about his education. So actually, this is something
we also learned last week based on the conversation with
his girlfriend. So it turned out to be all the
slave for physics, right. It came to him due to
an excellent teacher who he had in high school, right,
and turned out to be that this teacher. I mean
(46:52):
even they named the street after him in Alma Tip.
So that was like a very very big deal, right,
and yeah, turned out to be. My father dreamed of
being a pilot, but he didn't pass the medical So yeah,
he went into science and he after he graduated high school,
he entered that prestigious aircraft academy. So it was the
(47:14):
Civilian Aircraft Academy of the us SI. There were only
two of them, which were very very famous in the USSR.
Was one in Kharkiv, Ukraine, and another and wasn't regolatus.
So yeah, he graduated from there. I think he was
like engineering aircraft or something like that, like if you
ask about the exact major he had and then yeah,
and then this is what I also learned thanks to
(47:37):
his girlfriend. Yeah, he somehow landed in this area fifty
one like he was working there so and.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
The Russian equivalent of very fifty one.
Speaker 4 (47:48):
Russian and sorry, yeah I had at the time. At
the time, there were yeah, there were there are multiple, right,
like zones like that, and yeah, and the thing was
right like when USSR fell apart, right, all this, I
assume his hard work it vanished, right because the government changed. Right,
there were literally people who got lost, and they got
(48:10):
lost just because of the switch in the mindsets, right,
and what I'm talking about is right, it's just a
completely new life or majority of them, and this is
why lots of them died, lots of them drank their
minds off, you know, the whole like nineties in the
form former USA which was Russia ized that there were
people who became gangsters and just you know, went and
(48:31):
shot everyone. So yeah, this is what probably drove him
mental in sense of like, yes, all the ideas he had,
all the great work like he did, like nobody needed it,
right because again nobody knew it all fell apart, and
it all fell apart literally in a couple of years,
(48:51):
if not less, right, and he was such a person
that he wanted right like to do the work for
the government and for the benefit of that and then yeah,
and then he led it right after right and latter
was an independent country, so it was no longer matched
his values. And this is why, Yeah, I assume this
(49:16):
is how right like, this was probably a huge striategy
and it wasn't a huge strategy not only for him
but other millions and millions people who get who got
just lost because of this change.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, big change.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Right, I've talked to people about that over there, and uh,
you know it's funny how you know we think of
that was not so good. But there are a lot
of people that did not want that change to happen
for many reasons.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Her dad was one of them.
Speaker 4 (49:43):
I mean one of them.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
That's why we say, you know, I think he might
have felt initially if he's working in consacs on these
countries have fallen apart. He's like, all right, I'm going
to hold onto this and once everybody gets their minds
back and we have the party back in charge, you know,
I'm going to pick up work again. And it just
never happened.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
I think that's pretty interesting that Duma and Doma are
so close. They sound so much alike. That's basically a
home or a house and then a place as you
changed that little.
Speaker 4 (50:15):
That's right, yeah, the same lodging behind right.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, So we got about five minutes. So I think
it's fascinating. I hope that now. I do, remember, Gene,
when you initially contacted me, you did mention George Knapp
was he has he not been responsive to any of this?
Speaker 1 (50:36):
No, that's puzzling, you.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Told me, and again you know he you know, he Okay,
say it's very I think, very very disingenuous, to be
honest with you. You know, he finally threw a assistant
(51:02):
offered me an interview after again, the two times he
reached out to me were the two times I called
him out online.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
I've had to do the same thing. I've done the
same thing.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
That's all.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
We shouldn't get into it. But yeah, I've had some issues.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
And so he had an assistant offer me a to
go on the radio show with them they do. Was
it the you know, one am my time? I'm not
that into the subject. I don't need to sell any
books that I need to get up at one am.
But you know, I reply back, well, again a little
(51:40):
bit past my you know, my bedtime and whatnot, but
I'd be happy to pre record. And really, from throughout
the years, the number of times I've reached out, my
only question was this, is it consistent with what you've seen? Yeah,
that's I don't want to be on the show. I
(52:01):
don't want to sit down with Corbell. I don't want
to you know, I don't need a whole thing. That
was all I was seeking. Yeah, and and and so
that's why I say again, and you know, I could
go on for another hour about dissecting again. They made
me start asking questions. I'll just leave it at that,
(52:22):
So don't stand on a soapbox and tell the world
you are the champion of disclosure. You were going to
bring the truth out, you were gonna do all this,
and that they're not. They won't, they can't. And the
one who said it was over his head was napped.
(52:45):
So that's fine. I was happy to have a conversation
again just to this is what I've got. What can
you tell me about it? They made me start having
time to ask questions and then to offer me a
one am slot when I said, well, can we pre record?
Can we you know? Or can you just kind of
answer what I'm asking you and continue to get ignored?
(53:09):
You know again, maybe it means something different in Vegas,
but in Boston that speaks. That tells me you think
you're being a smart guy, and I'll put it out
I'm not the guy to be a smart guy with. MH.
Speaker 4 (53:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
Yeah, I've done too much in my life and too
much in my career. I'm not the guy to be
a smart guy with and think you're gonna out maneuver
and outflank me mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Well, it's been totally fascinating, this whole this whole thing.
I hope that, well, I will be in touch with
you and try to connect you to that physicist I
was talking to you about.
Speaker 3 (53:49):
I appreciate that, and I understand you might be up
at Exeter in a couple of weekends. I was thinking
that taking a ride up there.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Oh yeah, it's actually this coming weekend. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
this coming Sunday. I should have announced it Sunday. I'm
going to be actually a speaker at that conference Sunday afternoon.
But yeah, that's this this coming uh this coming weekend.
That'd be great to meet you.
Speaker 3 (54:07):
Yeah, we have another friend who's going to be uh
be speaking as well there. So I think we're gonna
we'll take a ride up and she likes going to
sig hour and got to bring her to the I
gotta bring her to the rain so she can shoot
her machine guns and stuff.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
So oh wow, it's.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Not alone home country, right, Well, we don't will have
that far apart live right in ports with New Hampshire
and that this year really close. Yeah all right, well,
thank you both so much. It's been a real pleasure
and I really wish you luck. I hope you can
you know, get somewhere with this, uh, with these documents,
and I hope what's coming. You know, we may be
(54:42):
having another conversation, right, you know.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
Absolutely, And you know, and again to me, this is
this is out there for the community. I can't there's
really nothing I can do with any of this. And
you know, I've made it, made it as accessible as possible,
trying to show people how to use it, but it's
(55:05):
really out there for everybody, I mean, and that's what
we just want people to really, you know, learn to
use it because it has the answers.
Speaker 1 (55:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
I think that's great. You're doing it that way, very good.
You're not looking for any riches for yourself, just to
get the information out there.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
So I like that.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
And anyway, thank you both, And so everyone remember we'll
be back on next Tuesday, and keep your eyes to
this
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