September 25, 2025 • 56 mins
Coming up on the 50th anniversary of his November 5, 1975 encounter, Travis Walton joins host Martin Willis to reflect on five decades of scrutiny, support, and unanswered questions—and to preview the Skyfire Summit in Sedona, Arizona, October 17–20, 2025. We discuss the original events in the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest, the aftermath for the logging crew, polygraph tests and media storms, evolving interpretations over the years, and what Travis hopes researchers, experiencers, and the public will take away from this milestone gathering. We also cover Skyfire Summit programming, speakers, and how attendees can participate.
Topics:
• 1975 timeline & what holds up after 50 years
• Crew testimony, polygraphs, and persistent myths
• What to expect at Skyfire Summit (Sedona, Oct 17–20, 2025)
• Advice to experiencers & the next generation of researchers
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Topics:
• 1975 timeline & what holds up after 50 years
• Crew testimony, polygraphs, and persistent myths
• What to expect at Skyfire Summit (Sedona, Oct 17–20, 2025)
• Advice to experiencers & the next generation of researchers
SHOW NOTES
Support the Show & Stay Connected!
👉 Join us on Patreon — Get ad-free podcast episodes (for any media player) for as little as $2/month: https://www.patreon.com/MartinWillisPodcastUFO
🛸Did you have a UFO/UAP Encounter? Leave Us a Voicemail: https://podcastufo.com/ufo-sightings/ufo-encounter-voicemail
🧢 Podcast UFO Merch (Shirts, Hats & More): https://tinyurl.com/mrybmnwb
📬 FREE Sign Up for Our Weekly Newsletter — Get updates on upcoming guests, blog posts, and more:
http://eepurl.com/LPHKD
🌐 Our Website:
https://podcastufo.com
📱 Follow us on Social Media:
Twitter (X): https://x.com/PodcastUFO
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PodcastUFO
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello, and welcome to the show. I have a very
special guest tonight, Travis Walton. He's been on a number
of times before. The last time he was Hones when
I was celebrating my tenth anniversary, So that was back
in twenty twenty one in November. But anyway, I've seen
him at a few events and looking forward to going
to the summit coming up here. Let me just share
(00:37):
the screen here. This is coming up on the I
want to say, the seventeenth of October through the twentieth,
and so this page is shared in the show notes
down below, and we have David Childress, Ron James, Stacy Wright,
Melnda Leslie, Don Schmidt, Jennifer Sign and of course Travis
(01:00):
Walton all going to be there. And that is in Sedona,
the beautiful town of Sedona, Arizona. I'm really looking forward
to that. So I've had a lot of conversations with
Travis over the years, and I get to tell you,
I've always been impressed with him and I totally, you know,
believe his story. I've sat face to face to him.
(01:22):
He's a very intelligent man, very nice guy, and I've enjoyed,
you know, talking to him over the years and what
an event happened back in November fifth, nineteen seventy five.
So the Sedona Summit is, you know, a few weeks
earlier than that, but that's a celebration of fifty years.
So I'm going to be asking him, you know, for
(01:42):
a lot of reflecting on the last fifty years and
what it's been like for him. And anyway, it's without
further ado, I'm going to bring him in and we
can expect, we can expect expect a lot. And Sam Moronto,
thank you for coming in as a pitch hitter. I
see you down there. We did get Travis to come in,
but I do want to thank you and we'll be
(02:04):
I'll be getting back to you next time. Sam, thanks
so much for offering to be a pinchitter. And anyway,
let's bring Let's bring Travis in and welcome Travis. Good
to see you.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Good evening.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Hey, you know I like the beard now now you're
really looking like a lumberjack. It's a really good look
for you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Though I don't know, I get mixed reviews.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Oh no, I like it. I like it. So yeah,
So fifty years, it's it's so hard to believe, you
know that the time is I know, I just you know,
there's fifty year reviewnions I'm hearing of, you know, high
school reunion stuff like that. So yeah, I mean the
time has certainly gone by, and you know, you had
a in between, you had a professional career and now
(02:53):
you're retired. But I got to say, you looking forward
to the summit? Is this something you look forward to
these summits, anniversary summits.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, since it's in front of me, date wise, of course,
I'm looking forward to it. It's what's what's next. I
guess it's the big one.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, yeah, And I know you. I want to thank
you for being here. I know that you were traveling
and your tiet and I really do appreciate you, you know,
making an effort and being here. I do appreciate that
very much. And so right now in Arizona, are you
do you live anywhere near Snowflake where the event happened.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I am living in Snowflake right now. Oh you want
to actually happened south of Heber out in the forest.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, that's right, hebre right, I remember on your So
it was ten years ago. I talked to you at
the location on the anniversary night. I remember that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, But anyway that was at that time has just
flown by, And I know there's a lot of people
that have some questions for you. Someone just you know,
wrote me something just a couple of minutes ago that
made me think, I try to ask you some unusual
questions when I've had you on before. I thought, what
(04:15):
could I ask Travis that? No, when I asked them before,
And one of the things is food, do you remember
eating any food of any type?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
No? No, I was not fed. My conscious period was
pretty much dominated my hysteria.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I can understand that. To certainly understand that. And do
you remember anything at all like that? You know what
I mean as far as feeling hunger or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I felt injured and hypoxic, you know, I felt like
I was suffocating. If that was the atmosphere in that
particular craft at the moment, or if that was just
an effect of the injury of being hit by that
(05:09):
blast of.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Energy right now. I mean, if you really think about it,
for them to get like a level an oxygen level
right for another species just to say they are from
some other place, that would be really tricky to try
to figure all that out. But I remember you saying that,
you know, you walked through, you walked out into like
(05:31):
this big hangar. It seemed like that.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, was the.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Air still like that? Do you feel like the air
was still hard to breathe then?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
There? No, it seemed a lot fresher, a lot easier
in that department, but I was still felt pain and injury.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
And now you've reflecting on this over the years, I
know you've come to believe that you feel like it
was more of a rescue mission that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I just don't think that they intended to just fire
a weapon at me. I'm sure they would have easier
ways to render me controllable, right, something so destructive?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Now, let me ask, if we go back to November fifth,
nineteen seventy five, when you jump out of the truck
and you're running toward it, if you had that to
do all over again, In other words, would you do it?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
No? I wouldn't. I regret that. And you know it
was a life changing impulse, rather foolish impulse that derailed
my life, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And so how much. Let's see, I know when I
talked to you, I think the very first time you
told me that you had to step away from this
for some periods of time and people were attacking you,
and you know, now it's online and people can attack viciously.
But this is going way back, is it. Do you
(07:07):
still feel like you have to step away from the
whole situation at times?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, for the most part, anybody that thinks they're getting
to me online is they're failing miserably because I don't
follow it at all. I see what they want. I'll
never see it. But I think over time the evidence
has been analyzed and compiled in a way. Alongside of
(07:33):
the fact that much of the disparaging things, the negative comments,
have been disproved, some of some of the debunkers have
been totally discredited by telling outright lies, and so you know,
the situation is what it is. It's sort of more
(07:54):
of a steady state now because in the in the
realm of attacks, they've got nothing new to say and
most of it's been refuted already. Anyway, if you want
to say, well, it's impossible for there to be any
other life in the universe, but humans, you're entitled to
(08:16):
your little comfort belief. But it's not in keeping with
just common sense. Universe is far too big for that.
Wouldn't that be a miraculous coincidence for there to be
literally trillions and trillions of stars with planets going around
(08:40):
them and this is the only one with life. Some
of these people seem to think.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So, yeah, this is a great quote here, and I
keep it up on here because I really love it.
Arthur C. Clark made this quote, two possibilities exist. Either
we are alone in the universe or we are not.
Both are equally terrifying. I've always loved that quo. Yeah, yeah,
(09:08):
and it would be if we were totally alone. I
mean that would be pretty lonely and a lot of.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Well that was a kind of a wise way for
him to straddle the issue.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, yep, yeah, absolutely. So you know, I'm going to say,
ninety nine point nine percent of the people know about
your incident, but I would like to just walk through
it quickly. I know you've told it probably one hundred
thousand times already, but so nineteen seventy five, you're clearing
the lumber up, and well, I'll let you if you
can just do like a quick nutshell. Because there are
(09:39):
a lot of first time listeners to this show and
other shows.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, you know, they may have seen the movie, in
which things have been changed a bit. You know, it
was a crew of seven men, not five. They tried
to oversimplify some things in the movie just to make
it easier to tell. But seven of us leaving work
saw a glow coming through the trees, at first thinking
(10:05):
it maybe deer hunters camped out there, but very quickly
came through the trees to where we could see clearly
this spacecraft hovering there. I reacted to it much like
I would if I was reacting to sighting a deer
or something. You know, then it would take off and
(10:29):
be gone in a second. So I jumped out and
headed towards it, thinking it would just be gone, and
it didn't take off, and then I was because the
reaction of the crew and the things they were calling out.
I was sort of into an embarrassing situation where, you know,
(10:49):
I needed to around and head back to the truck immediately,
but I did not, and the craft started to move louder,
and I jumped for cover behind a log and then
you know, follow through with the effort to stand up
run back to their truck. But that brought me to
(11:13):
the closest point near the craft. And that's when that
blast of energy hit me. I think it was some
kind of an accidental discharge, but I didn't see the beam.
The crew described it, some of them describing it as
(11:33):
a foot wide beam, Some describe it as a long
blue flame, but incredibly blindingly bright and powerful, sort of
almost an explosion that threw me through the air. And
they say they were yelling at each other. It killed me.
He's dead. So you know, I don't find fault with
(11:56):
my crewmates for leaving the scenes that because they just
thought they saw somebody get killed and they could be next,
so they weren't. There was no point in trying to
rescue me. It was over for me. In the movie
(12:17):
when Mike pulls over and everybody's arguing, just keep going,
let's not go back. They in the movie they had
Mike said, well, whoever doesn't want to go with us
can wait here and we'll pick you up when we
come back. That really happened, But in real life, nobody
(12:37):
got out of the truck and to wait alone in
the dark. Well, well, everybody else went back. Mike and
all of the crew went back to see if they
could help or or find me alive, at which they did.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Not Wow, yep, and then did as far as the
different things in the movie up in the sky besides
what you just mentioned, I know, I believe you told
me at one point that you know, there was no
such thing as like that cocoon thing that they had
(13:12):
going on in the movie. It's been a long time
since I've watched the movie, but I remember you saying that,
you know, there was some there were some definitely some
things that were in the movie that you that did
not happened.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah. When I was provided with a copy of the script,
they left out the part aboard the craft probably, I think,
knowing that I would be object most vehemently about that
great departure from what happened. But we're working on a
remake and it'll be a whole new deal, not going
(13:47):
to focus in on the you know, the fear factor,
the invaling aliens sort of thing, to what I think
is more aligned with what really happened there. I think
(14:09):
that the accidental zustards injured or nearly killed me, and
that they took me aboard in order to repair something
that only they could do.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Mm hmmm. When you think back on the the beings themselves,
do you remember thinking that there they did they show
any type of emotion or anything that you could actually detect.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, they didn't, you know, And you know, as humans,
when we don't see any facial expression, we interpret that
as hostility. But it came to me after a number
of years that if there's truly telepathic, as everybody seems
to know they are, the facial expressions are obsolete, so
(15:06):
they would not make smiles or frowns or any sort
of reassuring expressions because between themselves it's all telepathic and
probably richer and more complete than any animated expressions like
smiles and whatnot would provide.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Now, did you feel as though they may be Possibly?
I don't know what other way to put it, but
reading your mind.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I've heard much lore on the subject that they are
telepathic in that sense, But it's possible that in this case,
the energy had scrambled my brains to the extent that
wasn't working. They were unable to send any message or
(16:02):
control me telepathically. So that required the assistance of some
entity that I would accept help from with something that
looked human, and if it was people, a person could
(16:23):
be you know, some earth based agency assisting them. I
was only too eager to cooperate with what I thought
was a rescue, and this human looking individual got me
out of that craft. But whether it was a simulation
(16:47):
or a species of beings that look very much like humans,
I don't know, but I couldn't get any verbal response
at all. At first, I accepted that because the first
individual was wearing a helmet, but when he took me
(17:08):
to some others of his group that were not wearing helmets,
I continued my raving, ranting and screaming, you know, for
an explanation about this ors some experience I just had,
and I wasn't getting any there. So I started to
resist them too, but I was in a very injured
(17:32):
and weakened condition, and they were able to overpower me
and render me unconscious with some kind of a gas.
I think.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I remember you said they were extraordinarily beautiful looking features too.
They had striking looking people or whatever they were.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Right looking, very healthy, very perfect. So you know that
is furthering suggesting that perhaps it was something that they created, hmmm,
in order to get my cooperation.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Mm hmmm. Wow. You know when I've I've talked to
Alan Bean, he was the fourth man on the moon
and walked on the moon, and I asked him a question,
like I try to empathize with what it would be
like in a situation like that. And I said to him,
if I were you, the whole time I was looking
up at the big blue ball or marble, what if
(18:25):
you want to call it, I'd be thinking I want
to get back there. I mean I can't. I just
want to be back on the ground, you know. And
he said, no, you just do you know, do with
the tasks that are set in front of you, and
you know, you just do that, and then you know
you in the back of your mind, you know that
you're going to get back. I mean, that's the only
(18:45):
way you can do something like that. But did you
have the feeling the whole time you were in the
craft or whatever it was that am I ever going
to get back?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Well? I was definitely totally terrified and totally unfamiliar environment
and mostly in a panic about what had just happened
to me and what was going on. So I didn't
have any time to sort of reminisce or philosophize about
(19:18):
my situation. I was just wanting to know, what are
you doing to me? What is this all about?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
M Yeah, I mean fearing for your life times ten. Basically,
I would imagine, so here's a question, did they seem
biological or drone.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Like they were?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
They seemed biological, and you know, I mean that's a
lot of times you'll hear people like I'm going to say,
like when I interviewed Seth Shawstak from SETI, he would say, like,
there's no way something biolog logical get here. Of course
he's thinking on the terms of physics that we know
(20:04):
for space travel and all that.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But yeah, that's why that's one of the big mistakes
people judge this whole thing by in terms of our
level our knowledge. I mean, you know, humans have been
here for a few hundred years, and obviously it's possible
for there to be planets where the intelligent beings have
been there for thousands or millions of years. I mean,
(20:27):
think about it. The dinosaurs dominated the planet for hundreds
of millions, hundreds of millions of years with no humans,
and then we come along. We're here for a blip,
and we have the arrogance to presume that, well, there
couldn't be anything more advanced than what we can conceive
of when a few hundred years ago, the best we
(20:48):
knew was fire. That was the most technological thing we had.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
That's right, Yeah, yeah, we're always thinking that we're on
the pinnacle of knowledge, and you know, I mean it's
it is particular.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Modern, right they use the word modern. Well, they call
this modern one hundred years from now. I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So someone wrote this question. I thought it was pretty interesting.
If you had been in their place, an advanced species
abducting a human, what do you think the questions about
you might have been.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Well, if it was an abduction, they would wonder all
kinds of things, And as a matter of fact, they
even use that in one of the trailers for the movies.
You know, what is it? You know, what what is
it like? You know? What does it do? You know?
These are the questions you might ask about a human
being if you'd never seen one before. Well, I think
(21:47):
that that's really not the situation we are in with
these beings. I think they've been observing us, interacting for
a long time. This is just my own private thinking.
They tell me anything about that, But you know, hundreds
of years or many many years of watching and interacting,
(22:13):
and yet this desire to try to paint them as
invading monsters just doesn't hold water. I think with that
level of technology they could have, it would have been
an overnight thing and we didn't never know what hit us. Obviously,
(22:36):
they're not going to even make overt contact. I think
with that level of technology they could do everything they're
doing here and remain undetected. So they're not landing on
(22:56):
the White House lawn or making open contact of any kind.
Yet continual sightings, you know, things that make us aware
that they're there, but just on the edge of causing
whitespread panic or anything of that nature. And that's probably
(23:22):
constructive if people could just absorb it for what it
truly means. They've been here. They're not taking over. We're
not the end all be all of the universe.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Right. I tell a story. I've told it a number
of times in the show, but I'll just in a nutshell,
I talked to someone years ago before I was really
looking into this topic, in the nineties, and you know, basically,
he told me they worked for the government, part of
the Air Force, that was, you know, looking at at
(24:01):
UFOs during the Vietnam War type of thing. And when
I asked them, what does the government think that they
want from us? Or what are they doing or whatever,
and he just said that we're a petri dish. That's
what they' that's what That's what according to him in
the in the early seventies when he was in that
task force or late sixties, that's supposedly what the government
(24:25):
had relieved them.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
That is their opinion. And you know, it might be
as good as any or it could be right or wrong.
It's still, you know, just like my opinion is just
an opinion.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah. Yeah, Let's see, when you regained consciousness inside the craft,
do you remember what the very first sensory detail you recall,
like sound, touch or something else.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Just a light above me, just pain, out of focused vision,
just gradually, you know, trying to focus my eyes. The
light wasn't very bright, but it still hurt my eyes,
and I could make out the forms of what I
took to be doctors. At first, I knew I was hurt.
(25:16):
I felt injured, and I thought that I must have
been taken to a hospital. But when I could finally focus,
I could see this was definitely not a hospital, and
these weren't doctors.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So scary now, I know when you showed back up,
you just couldn't believe that it had been five days.
But do you think your perception of time during those
five days was altered? I mean, did it feel continuous
or did it feel pragniced?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
The conscious period was continuous, so you know, that's possible
that there was some sort of time dilation effect, but
easily possible that I was simply unconscious or dead all
that time and came to, you know, during the revival.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Mm hmmm. And do you think I know you you
underwent regression hypnotherapy at one time, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Pardon? Yeah, I underwent a regressive hypnosis.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And do you think that's possible that you still may
have some memories blocked?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
That's possible. That seemed to be all that he was
able to reveal, and I'm grateful that he did it
in the way that he did. It was to place
me there as a as a spectator sort of speak,
(26:51):
observing what was happening, rather than re experiencing it. I
think that would have been too traumatic. You know, one
of the guys on the crew underwent hypnosis in which
the technique was to have him relive it, and it
was extremely traumatic.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
For him, I bet. I mean, I can't even imagine,
you know, going through it the first time. But you know,
I mean he wasn't He was reliving the part where
you know, they were basically thinking that you were gone
in debt, right, I mean, that's what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Well, no, I don't know. I wasn't there, but you know,
I understand he was bucking up and down and you know,
practically nauseus, you know, just totally in tears and all that. No,
(27:48):
I wasn't there, but that's what I'm.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Told right now.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
He's not gonna want that out there. You know, he
read in my book that he was among those on
the crew who were crying. And at first, you know,
he came with me and participated in talks and whatnot,
but then his cousin started teasing him about being a
(28:18):
cry baby. So he demanded that I reprint the book
and eliminate that and say that he never cried. He
was strong and tough the whole time.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Terrible.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So I can't. I can't say for sure, but you
know I'm wrong crying. I cried might cry you know
the trauma. Oh yeah, that anybody's ashamed.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Of, right, right, And do you what do you remember?
I know that as far as I recall, you remember
just seeing like the craft lifting up when you were
brought back. Do you remember anything else? What was what
did it feel like? Did you feel like you're waking
(29:04):
up at that time?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Well? Yeah, I came regained consciousness pretty quickly and my
senses were pretty sharp. Immediately it was the pavement was cold.
I felt that immediately. The air around me was cold.
I could tell I hadn't been in that position more
than a few seconds. And the light above me drew
(29:27):
my attention. I looked to see where it was coming from,
but it went off before I was fully turned in
that direction. But I could still see a craft with
no light take off into the sky. From where I was,
I could recognize the town down below and went down
(29:49):
there to get help.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
And do you would you say that your clothing seemed
exactly like the same as it was when.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yes, it was. And my brother, you know, I guess
he had had some advice from some of the researchers
on site while I was missing, But he took all
of my clothing. I changed my clothes and he took
it all and sealed it up in a new plastic
trash bag with the idea of having it examined later.
(30:22):
But due to all of the incredible stuff that was
going on, some things got thrown in to the trunk.
On top of that, the bag was torn open and
it was considered you know, contaminated evidence at that point,
and so there was no follow through there.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Now, did you feel as if there were any point
afterwards that you may have changed in some type of way,
you know, through your perceptions or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Well, it definitely had a huge psychological effect on me.
I was very apprehensive about you know, a repeat or
maybe lingering after effects of health things popping up later.
But in spite of the fact that I was a
(31:18):
workaholic for a number of years in order to suppress
the memory, working seven days a week, and you know,
I never got sick from it. I was expecting to,
you know, maybe something something would come wrong, But in
all those years afterwards, I never called in sick one time.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
M hmm. There's a question that's a little tricky because
because I had some interactions and I think I'm going
to ask it anyway, because I just wonder how you
feel about it, And I hate bringing some one else
(32:00):
into this this type of way. But you know, I
saw that Mike Rogers was kind of attacking the whole story.
And has that ever been resolved, do you know?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Or well, that's that's resolved. I mean, he was developing diabetes.
His blood sugar was out of control. He wound up
being hospitalized a number of times on account of it.
So you know, the one single tape that was made
of him saying that was being sort of dragged out
(32:33):
of him by the so called interviewer who had lied
and said that, come on, tell us it never really happened,
because Travis is willing to do it, but we just
can't meet his price. Lie. He was lying flat out.
Oh my god, it was wise enough to record my
(32:56):
conversation with this guy. I never said anything of the sort,
but he deceived. Mike tricked him into feeling like, here's
an opportunity to you know, get paid for saying it
didn't happen. Well, well, you know, nobody's paying me to
(33:16):
talk about what did happen. I'll I'll say it didn't happen,
if you maybe. I mean, throughout that conversation with that guy,
he was Mike was making reference after reference to buy
me dinner. See this is I think it's a symptom
(33:37):
of his diabetes. His blood sugar was dropping, his speech
was halting and vague, and it was really kind of strange.
He's one minute he's saying, I'm setting my saw on
a stump. In the next minute he's telling the guy that.
But Mike uh denies that that was the case at all,
(34:02):
That he was speaking a kind of as if thing
that was fed to him. That's not on the tape
from this so called investigator that you know, Mike stands
by it, and he's done interviews about it since then.
That doesn't fit that scenario that he's going to fess
(34:24):
up that it was all. It's really strange, though, don't
you think that if somebody got that out of somebody,
then they wouldn't follow up and say, oh yeah, how's that?
How do you know? You know, give me some detail.
Nothing more was ever done. It was just dropped. So
you know, I think the guy knew that wasn't a
(34:46):
real confession. He was just gonna sell it as one.
That's what he was interested in doing instead of getting something.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
It's not surprising because you look all the way back
to when Philip Klass tried to who was it? He
tried to was it sieves?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
See Pearce offered him ten thousand dollars to say it
didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I mean, isn't that incredible right there? You know, they
say follow the money. I wonder where that money if
you were to follow that offer, where that would lead?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, especially since when he concluded his pursuit of this issue,
he turned the whole investigation over to the CIA. It
turns out after Filip Class passed away that someone had
filed a FOYA Freedom of Information Act request of the
(35:40):
FBI's investigation of Philip Class. He was under extensive investigation,
apparently for selling secrets that he acquired in his role
as editor of Aviation Week in Space Technology. So you know,
I've got a copy of that file that was sent
to me, you know, probably twenty five pages, much of
(36:03):
it blacked out. I'd love to see what they had
on him. But just the fact that they were investigating
him for betraying the United States Defense secrets says.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
That's espionage, really right, I mean, that sounds like an
espionage case to me.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Well, another thing that was really strange. That seems so
psychological about it to me was the Mike and I
were on the Larry King Show and Larry brought Philip
Class in on a monitor. You've never been in my present. Ever.
That was the closest he ever came. And he leveled
(36:46):
everything at Mike Rogers. He didn't say anything to be
didn't acknowledge anything. And yet although he devoted parts of
several books to attacking the case on the base of
basis of what he was said to Mike and whatnot,
(37:06):
he never attempted to contact me. Ever. Now here's his
number one case, his main thing that he's devoted parts
of several books, and he never attempted to call me
at all. I'm not in trying to insinuate anything. I
find it puzzling. Why world would he just let that go?
You wouldn't. You would think that'd be the guy you
(37:26):
could corner and trip him up and get him to
say something you know didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Okay, So now it's the fifty year mark. I mean,
it's so hard to believe the fifty year mark. And
when you look back now, do you see anything besides
the rescue thing, which I think is something you've come
up with in the last I don't know how many years.
But do you see things differently in any type of way?
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, I speculate, you know, I've thought, well, know, we
are government, our military has satellites that are observing things
from up there, and maybe they saw the whole thing,
they knew what happened. But aside from that, it seems
(38:23):
that that, you know, there's a reason for this sort
of allowing their presence to be perceived, but not in
the kind of a way that would totally disrupt everything.
(38:46):
M hmm.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah. You know, people have asked me a number of times, well,
why do UFOs have lights? You know what I mean.
It's kind of a bizarre thing, you know, like, uh,
you know, so do they want to be detected? Some
people say, well, maybe that's the way, something to do
with their propulsion or something like that.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
But there's you know, some of both. You know, the
one that dropped me off, it turned the light off.
Maybe it was a hatch closing, but at that point
it was not glowing. It was just very shiny, metallic
and shot up into the sky.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
H wow. Now I will ask you something I don't
think I've ever asked you before. Are there any other
UFO cases that you think are really intriguing. I mean,
is do you have like a case that you think
other than your own, that you think really is, you know,
very spectacular.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I've refused to pass judgment on any other cases because
I haven't investigated any And that was what my main
objection to the criticism I was getting. People didn't even
have the basic facts of the case, and they were
talking about all kinds of things, and it was just
(40:06):
so far off. It was silly. How can they pass
judgment on some people and they don't even know what
actually happened. They didn't have any documentation for the things
that they were lodging against us. But so I've you know,
(40:27):
I can tell you that there are cases that I
consider to be exceptional, but I can't name them because
that's a slippery slope. You know pretty soon that people
are going to be wondering, well, how about this one?
What do you think of that one? I'm not going
to be judging Jerry on a bunch of cases that
I have not investigated.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Have you followed at all any of the Washington DC hearings?
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Actually I didn't. I've heard that they're looking into it,
but I expected it would be unrevealing and the secrecy
would be maintained. But I don't resent the government for
doing that. I think that's necessary. They have to keep
(41:15):
the secrets that they have. People words, come on, throw
open the files. Let's just see what you got. Well,
if there's anything of a technological nature that could be
useful in terms of our enemies on the planet. There's
(41:35):
a couple of other big nations that would love to
have the information that we might have recovered. They probably
have information they recovered. But if we said, okay, we'll
throw open our files, if you'll open yours, would we
really get everything they had? Now? I think it serves
(41:57):
as a sort of a break on aggression because they
don't know what kind of technology we might have to
defend ourselves with. And so, you know, everybody keeping their
secrets is probably a good thing.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I understand. I get a lot of what you're saying,
and I agree because unfortunately, it's human nature.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
We love to know what they have. Come on, come
out with it.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
You know, well, human nature is also what way can
we kill you? You know, what is the better way
to kill someone?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Everything's going to get weaponized, and you know that would happen,
and I'm sure they know that, and it could very
quickly accelerate into the deteriorating situation almost immediately.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Right whoever holds some of the most cards. Uh yeah,
I mean, you know, you think about Also my own
opinion of this is that I don't think the government
knows everything about them, and because of that, they're not
going to they can't.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Say the embarrassment for them too. Of course, in order
to justify their interest in the subject, they have to
sort of classify it as a threat. But on the
other hand, even if they knew there is no threat,
they can't be embarrassed by basically saying we don't know.
(43:32):
That would read a lot of dissatisfaction with them who
are supposed to be serving our needs and satisfying our curiosity.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Right and also protecting you know, that's another thing, you know,
they if they don't know, that means they don't know
what it is, they don't know how to protect us.
If that's if need be really.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Well people, if people want to assume that it's a threat.
But I don't, like I said, I've been doing this
for decades, many many years, and so if they had
sinister plans we never know what hit us. We'd be
gone in a day overnight. Ah.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, I believe that. I believe one. And you know,
I mean there's been a few cases where it might
seem like there's been aggression, and some of that may
very well be, but some of that might be exactly
what you feel happened to you as well.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Add or misunderstood. But you have to think that being
super advanced in intelligence would make you more moral, I mean,
(44:55):
because evil is stupid. Yeah. Evil is a man festation
of ignorance in some way. And I don't see how
you can be in possession of massive amounts of technology
and understanding this kind of stuff because if they were evil,
(45:15):
they would have destroyed each other before getting to us.
I mean, that's the nature of you know, weaponizing everything.
I don't I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah. I mentioned this before on my show, but I
had Jeffrey Bennett who was a visiting scientists astrophysicist at NASA,
and he said the water cooler talk was, you know,
if a society can get through the bottleneck of technology
without blowing themselves up, they'll be traveling the stars. I
always thought that was one of my favorite lines I
(45:50):
heard someone say on my show.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah, yeah, and it makes sense. You know, the early
Europeans come into the less developed primitive nations in South
America Africa. You know, the contact was destructive. In almost
every case. You disrupted things that had been in place
(46:17):
for a very long period of time.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Another question someone asked me to ask you, did you
experience any unusual dreams, perceptions, or a heightened awareness in
the years after the incident.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah? I did. I had some dreams that I thought,
could this be other memories that I'm coming back spontaneously?
So I asked Tracy Tormae, who had researched the case
and written the book Firing the Sky about my case,
if he thought that this could be memories coming back
(46:53):
to me, and he says, no, They're probably just dreams.
But then a few years later I asked him the
same question and he seemed to forget his earlier opinion
and said, oh, yeah, those could be memories coming back.
But I never pursued it, and I haven't pursued additional hypnosis,
(47:14):
especially after hearing about Steve's traumatic hypnosis.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
This has this incident. You said you were a workaholic,
working sevent days a week. Did it ever affect your
work life in any type of way. I mean, people
obviously must recognize you a lot over the years.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
I mean like I worked very hard to get there
and regain some credibility and have them see me strictly
for what I for what I could do in the
job and perform. And and I think I won that
because you know, I got some respect on the job.
(47:58):
You know, I became the head of maintenance at the
first corporation and and also positions of higher responsibility in
the second one. So apparently they appreciated my grounded, groundedness,
(48:23):
if we can call it that.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Uh huh great. Someone wants to know if you could
talk a little bit more about the The Fire in
the Sky movie that might be coming out. Do you
have any other details in that.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
I don't want to talk too much about the new movie.
The script was undertaken. It starts in a different position.
It's later in the series of events. I thought it
was wrong in the original movie to start where it did.
It's out of sequence. I think audience needs to be
(49:02):
grounded in where what things were like before everything went crazy.
But this script is not complete, and that comes first.
You don't. You don't get any sort of production company.
You don't get any commitment from studios or anything until
(49:24):
they have a completed script.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Right, yep, I totally get that. Someone wanted to know,
did you see an orb? I never heard about this before,
but was there an orb underneath the craft?
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah? I've seen in my life an orb. I was
with a large group of people headed to Phoenix to go.
I think we were going there for a movie or
for there was a I think it might have been
a movie. But anyway, this u glow glowing thing. It
(50:03):
was overcast, we can see the clouds were lit up.
But what happened was this giant, it was huge sphere,
glowing sphere, came down through the clouds, moved across and
went back up into the clouds. My future wife's sister said,
(50:26):
is it the end of the world? I mean, it
was that scary, but that was it. It was just
a sighting, very huge, dramatic, you know the you know,
but when you're looking at a sphere or something object
in the sky, you can only you can't. You don't
(50:48):
have any measurements to compare it to. So the angle
subtended judges the size, the size of this sphere was many, many,
many times what the the moon or the sun or
anything like that would be. So it was huge.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Wow, is that something? And you know the term you
just said about the end of the world type of thing.
So many people have said that they felt like it
was the end of the world when they when they
saw their sighting. Was there any part of that incident
where you thought they're back.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Well, it was so you know, standing by itself kind
of a thing. Heck, even after that, I had a
sighting of one of the giant black triangles. Really yeah.
(51:47):
Jan Harzan had a move on. Was giving a speech
in Burbank, California, and Tracy Tormay, the writer of the
movie script the Travis the Fire in the Sky movie,
had given a talk that night and my son and
(52:09):
I and my girlfriend were leaving Burbank driving north up
to the freeway across to Arizona when we saw this
light in the distance. But it came at us so
quickly that it very very almost immediately was visible as
three lights, and it was a gigantic black triangle that
(52:33):
moved quicker than any You know, when you see a
jet plane coming in for a landing at the airport.
It looks like it's just crawling through the sky. When
you know that if it wasn't going a couple hundred
miles an hour, at least it'd fall out of the sky. Well,
this thing was moving many many times faster than that,
and it was huge. It was, you know, I thought
(52:53):
maybe a quarter of a mile across. It was gigantic
and very low, so low, But there was a light
on each point of the triangle. And it seemed that
these lights, if they were lights, because they had a
sort of a shimmering glow to them, I think they
might have been something that had to do with what
(53:17):
was supporting it.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
You know, what about in the center? Was there anything?
Did you see a light in the center as well?
Speaker 2 (53:23):
And you know, I've heard many reports that there have
been lights in the center. I saw none in this case.
And my girlfriend could look straight up through the back
window and see the surface of it. It was a
sort of a mat semi gloss textured black surface. But
(53:46):
it's huge. And the point of the triangle that was
towards us when it arrived turned to its right ninety
degrees and then shot off impossibly quickly towards the Pacific Ocean.
Now I wouldn't have even reported this because there was
only US three witnesses, but turned out that a website
(54:13):
called ufostocker dot com was taking reports and more than
a dozen people reported seeing the same thing. It was
set up on a sort of a Google Maps kind
of a thing, a circle with numbers, And each of
these people were people who didn't even know each other.
They were all in that area at that time, at
that date, and I saw the same thing. So this
(54:37):
is something that many people see in report. Sometimes there's
a light in the center of the triangle. I if
it was if it was aliens, it was them saying hello,
we're still here. Because one of the odds that it
would stop right over the top of us in a
(54:57):
highly populated area in the sanity of Los Angeles. If
it was the government wanted to get me to report
it as a UFO, that would fit too. But where
would they park such a gigantic thing. It's it's so
(55:18):
huge you couldn't hide it.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
I've often said that I don't they can't build a
hangar that big. When people are talking about something being
you know, a mile wide or whatever, it's just impossible.
But I can't believe our time is up. I want
to thank you so much and I'll be seeing you
just a couple of weeks down the road.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
See you then.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, thank you very much. I really do appreciate you
coming on. I know how tired you. I hope you
get some good rest and all right, take care, all
right everyone, So we'll be back next week with Nugent
Cantleano and Jensine Anderson. Thanks again and keep your eyes
(56:02):
to the sky.
Hello, and welcome to the show. I have a very
special guest tonight, Travis Walton. He's been on a number
of times before. The last time he was Hones when
I was celebrating my tenth anniversary, So that was back
in twenty twenty one in November. But anyway, I've seen
him at a few events and looking forward to going
to the summit coming up here. Let me just share
(00:37):
the screen here. This is coming up on the I
want to say, the seventeenth of October through the twentieth,
and so this page is shared in the show notes
down below, and we have David Childress, Ron James, Stacy Wright,
Melnda Leslie, Don Schmidt, Jennifer Sign and of course Travis
(01:00):
Walton all going to be there. And that is in Sedona,
the beautiful town of Sedona, Arizona. I'm really looking forward
to that. So I've had a lot of conversations with
Travis over the years, and I get to tell you,
I've always been impressed with him and I totally, you know,
believe his story. I've sat face to face to him.
(01:22):
He's a very intelligent man, very nice guy, and I've enjoyed,
you know, talking to him over the years and what
an event happened back in November fifth, nineteen seventy five.
So the Sedona Summit is, you know, a few weeks
earlier than that, but that's a celebration of fifty years.
So I'm going to be asking him, you know, for
(01:42):
a lot of reflecting on the last fifty years and
what it's been like for him. And anyway, it's without
further ado, I'm going to bring him in and we
can expect, we can expect expect a lot. And Sam Moronto,
thank you for coming in as a pitch hitter. I
see you down there. We did get Travis to come in,
but I do want to thank you and we'll be
(02:04):
I'll be getting back to you next time. Sam, thanks
so much for offering to be a pinchitter. And anyway,
let's bring Let's bring Travis in and welcome Travis. Good
to see you.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Good evening.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Hey, you know I like the beard now now you're
really looking like a lumberjack. It's a really good look
for you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Though I don't know, I get mixed reviews.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Oh no, I like it. I like it. So yeah,
So fifty years, it's it's so hard to believe, you
know that the time is I know, I just you know,
there's fifty year reviewnions I'm hearing of, you know, high
school reunion stuff like that. So yeah, I mean the
time has certainly gone by, and you know, you had
a in between, you had a professional career and now
(02:53):
you're retired. But I got to say, you looking forward
to the summit? Is this something you look forward to
these summits, anniversary summits.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, since it's in front of me, date wise, of course,
I'm looking forward to it. It's what's what's next. I
guess it's the big one.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, yeah, And I know you. I want to thank
you for being here. I know that you were traveling
and your tiet and I really do appreciate you, you know,
making an effort and being here. I do appreciate that
very much. And so right now in Arizona, are you
do you live anywhere near Snowflake where the event happened.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I am living in Snowflake right now. Oh you want
to actually happened south of Heber out in the forest.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, that's right, hebre right, I remember on your So
it was ten years ago. I talked to you at
the location on the anniversary night. I remember that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, But anyway that was at that time has just
flown by, And I know there's a lot of people
that have some questions for you. Someone just you know,
wrote me something just a couple of minutes ago that
made me think, I try to ask you some unusual
questions when I've had you on before. I thought, what
(04:15):
could I ask Travis that? No, when I asked them before,
And one of the things is food, do you remember
eating any food of any type?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
No? No, I was not fed. My conscious period was
pretty much dominated my hysteria.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I can understand that. To certainly understand that. And do
you remember anything at all like that? You know what
I mean as far as feeling hunger or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I felt injured and hypoxic, you know, I felt like
I was suffocating. If that was the atmosphere in that
particular craft at the moment, or if that was just
an effect of the injury of being hit by that
(05:09):
blast of.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Energy right now. I mean, if you really think about it,
for them to get like a level an oxygen level
right for another species just to say they are from
some other place, that would be really tricky to try
to figure all that out. But I remember you saying that,
you know, you walked through, you walked out into like
(05:31):
this big hangar. It seemed like that.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, was the.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Air still like that? Do you feel like the air
was still hard to breathe then?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
There? No, it seemed a lot fresher, a lot easier
in that department, but I was still felt pain and injury.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
And now you've reflecting on this over the years, I
know you've come to believe that you feel like it
was more of a rescue mission that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I just don't think that they intended to just fire
a weapon at me. I'm sure they would have easier
ways to render me controllable, right, something so destructive?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Now, let me ask, if we go back to November fifth,
nineteen seventy five, when you jump out of the truck
and you're running toward it, if you had that to
do all over again, In other words, would you do it?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
No? I wouldn't. I regret that. And you know it
was a life changing impulse, rather foolish impulse that derailed
my life, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And so how much. Let's see, I know when I
talked to you, I think the very first time you
told me that you had to step away from this
for some periods of time and people were attacking you,
and you know, now it's online and people can attack viciously.
But this is going way back, is it. Do you
(07:07):
still feel like you have to step away from the
whole situation at times?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, for the most part, anybody that thinks they're getting
to me online is they're failing miserably because I don't
follow it at all. I see what they want. I'll
never see it. But I think over time the evidence
has been analyzed and compiled in a way. Alongside of
(07:33):
the fact that much of the disparaging things, the negative comments,
have been disproved, some of some of the debunkers have
been totally discredited by telling outright lies, and so you know,
the situation is what it is. It's sort of more
(07:54):
of a steady state now because in the in the
realm of attacks, they've got nothing new to say and
most of it's been refuted already. Anyway, if you want
to say, well, it's impossible for there to be any
other life in the universe, but humans, you're entitled to
(08:16):
your little comfort belief. But it's not in keeping with
just common sense. Universe is far too big for that.
Wouldn't that be a miraculous coincidence for there to be
literally trillions and trillions of stars with planets going around
(08:40):
them and this is the only one with life. Some
of these people seem to think.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So, yeah, this is a great quote here, and I
keep it up on here because I really love it.
Arthur C. Clark made this quote, two possibilities exist. Either
we are alone in the universe or we are not.
Both are equally terrifying. I've always loved that quo. Yeah, yeah,
(09:08):
and it would be if we were totally alone. I
mean that would be pretty lonely and a lot of.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Well that was a kind of a wise way for
him to straddle the issue.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, yep, yeah, absolutely. So you know, I'm going to say,
ninety nine point nine percent of the people know about
your incident, but I would like to just walk through
it quickly. I know you've told it probably one hundred
thousand times already, but so nineteen seventy five, you're clearing
the lumber up, and well, I'll let you if you
can just do like a quick nutshell. Because there are
(09:39):
a lot of first time listeners to this show and
other shows.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Well, you know, they may have seen the movie, in
which things have been changed a bit. You know, it
was a crew of seven men, not five. They tried
to oversimplify some things in the movie just to make
it easier to tell. But seven of us leaving work
saw a glow coming through the trees, at first thinking
(10:05):
it maybe deer hunters camped out there, but very quickly
came through the trees to where we could see clearly
this spacecraft hovering there. I reacted to it much like
I would if I was reacting to sighting a deer
or something. You know, then it would take off and
(10:29):
be gone in a second. So I jumped out and
headed towards it, thinking it would just be gone, and
it didn't take off, and then I was because the
reaction of the crew and the things they were calling out.
I was sort of into an embarrassing situation where, you know,
(10:49):
I needed to around and head back to the truck immediately,
but I did not, and the craft started to move louder,
and I jumped for cover behind a log and then
you know, follow through with the effort to stand up
run back to their truck. But that brought me to
(11:13):
the closest point near the craft. And that's when that
blast of energy hit me. I think it was some
kind of an accidental discharge, but I didn't see the beam.
The crew described it, some of them describing it as
(11:33):
a foot wide beam, Some describe it as a long
blue flame, but incredibly blindingly bright and powerful, sort of
almost an explosion that threw me through the air. And
they say they were yelling at each other. It killed me.
He's dead. So you know, I don't find fault with
(11:56):
my crewmates for leaving the scenes that because they just
thought they saw somebody get killed and they could be next,
so they weren't. There was no point in trying to
rescue me. It was over for me. In the movie
(12:17):
when Mike pulls over and everybody's arguing, just keep going,
let's not go back. They in the movie they had
Mike said, well, whoever doesn't want to go with us
can wait here and we'll pick you up when we
come back. That really happened, But in real life, nobody
(12:37):
got out of the truck and to wait alone in
the dark. Well, well, everybody else went back. Mike and
all of the crew went back to see if they
could help or or find me alive, at which they did.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Not Wow, yep, and then did as far as the
different things in the movie up in the sky besides
what you just mentioned, I know, I believe you told
me at one point that you know, there was no
such thing as like that cocoon thing that they had
(13:12):
going on in the movie. It's been a long time
since I've watched the movie, but I remember you saying that,
you know, there was some there were some definitely some
things that were in the movie that you that did
not happened.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah. When I was provided with a copy of the script,
they left out the part aboard the craft probably, I think,
knowing that I would be object most vehemently about that
great departure from what happened. But we're working on a
remake and it'll be a whole new deal, not going
(13:47):
to focus in on the you know, the fear factor,
the invaling aliens sort of thing, to what I think
is more aligned with what really happened there. I think
(14:09):
that the accidental zustards injured or nearly killed me, and
that they took me aboard in order to repair something
that only they could do.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Mm hmmm. When you think back on the the beings themselves,
do you remember thinking that there they did they show
any type of emotion or anything that you could actually detect.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, they didn't, you know, And you know, as humans,
when we don't see any facial expression, we interpret that
as hostility. But it came to me after a number
of years that if there's truly telepathic, as everybody seems
to know they are, the facial expressions are obsolete, so
(15:06):
they would not make smiles or frowns or any sort
of reassuring expressions because between themselves it's all telepathic and
probably richer and more complete than any animated expressions like
smiles and whatnot would provide.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Now, did you feel as though they may be Possibly?
I don't know what other way to put it, but
reading your mind.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I've heard much lore on the subject that they are
telepathic in that sense, But it's possible that in this case,
the energy had scrambled my brains to the extent that
wasn't working. They were unable to send any message or
(16:02):
control me telepathically. So that required the assistance of some
entity that I would accept help from with something that
looked human, and if it was people, a person could
(16:23):
be you know, some earth based agency assisting them. I
was only too eager to cooperate with what I thought
was a rescue, and this human looking individual got me
out of that craft. But whether it was a simulation
(16:47):
or a species of beings that look very much like humans,
I don't know, but I couldn't get any verbal response
at all. At first, I accepted that because the first
individual was wearing a helmet, but when he took me
(17:08):
to some others of his group that were not wearing helmets,
I continued my raving, ranting and screaming, you know, for
an explanation about this ors some experience I just had,
and I wasn't getting any there. So I started to
resist them too, but I was in a very injured
(17:32):
and weakened condition, and they were able to overpower me
and render me unconscious with some kind of a gas.
I think.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I remember you said they were extraordinarily beautiful looking features too.
They had striking looking people or whatever they were.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Right looking, very healthy, very perfect. So you know that
is furthering suggesting that perhaps it was something that they created, hmmm,
in order to get my cooperation.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Mm hmmm. Wow. You know when I've I've talked to
Alan Bean, he was the fourth man on the moon
and walked on the moon, and I asked him a question,
like I try to empathize with what it would be
like in a situation like that. And I said to him,
if I were you, the whole time I was looking
up at the big blue ball or marble, what if
(18:25):
you want to call it, I'd be thinking I want
to get back there. I mean I can't. I just
want to be back on the ground, you know. And
he said, no, you just do you know, do with
the tasks that are set in front of you, and
you know, you just do that, and then you know
you in the back of your mind, you know that
you're going to get back. I mean, that's the only
(18:45):
way you can do something like that. But did you
have the feeling the whole time you were in the
craft or whatever it was that am I ever going
to get back?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Well? I was definitely totally terrified and totally unfamiliar environment
and mostly in a panic about what had just happened
to me and what was going on. So I didn't
have any time to sort of reminisce or philosophize about
(19:18):
my situation. I was just wanting to know, what are
you doing to me? What is this all about?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
M Yeah, I mean fearing for your life times ten. Basically,
I would imagine, so here's a question, did they seem
biological or drone.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Like they were?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
They seemed biological, and you know, I mean that's a
lot of times you'll hear people like I'm going to say,
like when I interviewed Seth Shawstak from SETI, he would say, like,
there's no way something biolog logical get here. Of course
he's thinking on the terms of physics that we know
(20:04):
for space travel and all that.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
But yeah, that's why that's one of the big mistakes
people judge this whole thing by in terms of our
level our knowledge. I mean, you know, humans have been
here for a few hundred years, and obviously it's possible
for there to be planets where the intelligent beings have
been there for thousands or millions of years. I mean,
(20:27):
think about it. The dinosaurs dominated the planet for hundreds
of millions, hundreds of millions of years with no humans,
and then we come along. We're here for a blip,
and we have the arrogance to presume that, well, there
couldn't be anything more advanced than what we can conceive
of when a few hundred years ago, the best we
(20:48):
knew was fire. That was the most technological thing we had.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
That's right, Yeah, yeah, we're always thinking that we're on
the pinnacle of knowledge, and you know, I mean it's
it is particular.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Modern, right they use the word modern. Well, they call
this modern one hundred years from now. I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
So someone wrote this question. I thought it was pretty interesting.
If you had been in their place, an advanced species
abducting a human, what do you think the questions about
you might have been.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Well, if it was an abduction, they would wonder all
kinds of things, And as a matter of fact, they
even use that in one of the trailers for the movies.
You know, what is it? You know, what what is
it like? You know? What does it do? You know?
These are the questions you might ask about a human
being if you'd never seen one before. Well, I think
(21:47):
that that's really not the situation we are in with
these beings. I think they've been observing us, interacting for
a long time. This is just my own private thinking.
They tell me anything about that, But you know, hundreds
of years or many many years of watching and interacting,
(22:13):
and yet this desire to try to paint them as
invading monsters just doesn't hold water. I think with that
level of technology they could have, it would have been
an overnight thing and we didn't never know what hit us. Obviously,
(22:36):
they're not going to even make overt contact. I think
with that level of technology they could do everything they're
doing here and remain undetected. So they're not landing on
(22:56):
the White House lawn or making open contact of any kind.
Yet continual sightings, you know, things that make us aware
that they're there, but just on the edge of causing
whitespread panic or anything of that nature. And that's probably
(23:22):
constructive if people could just absorb it for what it
truly means. They've been here. They're not taking over. We're
not the end all be all of the universe.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Right. I tell a story. I've told it a number
of times in the show, but I'll just in a nutshell,
I talked to someone years ago before I was really
looking into this topic, in the nineties, and you know, basically,
he told me they worked for the government, part of
the Air Force, that was, you know, looking at at
(24:01):
UFOs during the Vietnam War type of thing. And when
I asked them, what does the government think that they
want from us? Or what are they doing or whatever,
and he just said that we're a petri dish. That's
what they' that's what That's what according to him in
the in the early seventies when he was in that
task force or late sixties, that's supposedly what the government
(24:25):
had relieved them.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
That is their opinion. And you know, it might be
as good as any or it could be right or wrong.
It's still, you know, just like my opinion is just
an opinion.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah. Yeah, Let's see, when you regained consciousness inside the craft,
do you remember what the very first sensory detail you recall,
like sound, touch or something else.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Just a light above me, just pain, out of focused vision,
just gradually, you know, trying to focus my eyes. The
light wasn't very bright, but it still hurt my eyes,
and I could make out the forms of what I
took to be doctors. At first, I knew I was hurt.
(25:16):
I felt injured, and I thought that I must have
been taken to a hospital. But when I could finally focus,
I could see this was definitely not a hospital, and
these weren't doctors.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So scary now, I know when you showed back up,
you just couldn't believe that it had been five days.
But do you think your perception of time during those
five days was altered? I mean, did it feel continuous
or did it feel pragniced?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
The conscious period was continuous, so you know, that's possible
that there was some sort of time dilation effect, but
easily possible that I was simply unconscious or dead all
that time and came to, you know, during the revival.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Mm hmmm. And do you think I know you you
underwent regression hypnotherapy at one time, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Pardon? Yeah, I underwent a regressive hypnosis.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And do you think that's possible that you still may
have some memories blocked?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
That's possible. That seemed to be all that he was
able to reveal, and I'm grateful that he did it
in the way that he did. It was to place
me there as a as a spectator sort of speak,
(26:51):
observing what was happening, rather than re experiencing it. I
think that would have been too traumatic. You know, one
of the guys on the crew underwent hypnosis in which
the technique was to have him relive it, and it
was extremely traumatic.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
For him, I bet. I mean, I can't even imagine,
you know, going through it the first time. But you know,
I mean he wasn't He was reliving the part where
you know, they were basically thinking that you were gone
in debt, right, I mean, that's what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Well, no, I don't know. I wasn't there, but you know,
I understand he was bucking up and down and you know,
practically nauseus, you know, just totally in tears and all that. No,
(27:48):
I wasn't there, but that's what I'm.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Told right now.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
He's not gonna want that out there. You know, he
read in my book that he was among those on
the crew who were crying. And at first, you know,
he came with me and participated in talks and whatnot,
but then his cousin started teasing him about being a
(28:18):
cry baby. So he demanded that I reprint the book
and eliminate that and say that he never cried. He
was strong and tough the whole time.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Terrible.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
So I can't. I can't say for sure, but you
know I'm wrong crying. I cried might cry you know
the trauma. Oh yeah, that anybody's ashamed.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Of, right, right, And do you what do you remember?
I know that as far as I recall, you remember
just seeing like the craft lifting up when you were
brought back. Do you remember anything else? What was what
did it feel like? Did you feel like you're waking
(29:04):
up at that time?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Well? Yeah, I came regained consciousness pretty quickly and my
senses were pretty sharp. Immediately it was the pavement was cold.
I felt that immediately. The air around me was cold.
I could tell I hadn't been in that position more
than a few seconds. And the light above me drew
(29:27):
my attention. I looked to see where it was coming from,
but it went off before I was fully turned in
that direction. But I could still see a craft with
no light take off into the sky. From where I was,
I could recognize the town down below and went down
(29:49):
there to get help.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
And do you would you say that your clothing seemed
exactly like the same as it was when.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Yes, it was. And my brother, you know, I guess
he had had some advice from some of the researchers
on site while I was missing, But he took all
of my clothing. I changed my clothes and he took
it all and sealed it up in a new plastic
trash bag with the idea of having it examined later.
(30:22):
But due to all of the incredible stuff that was
going on, some things got thrown in to the trunk.
On top of that, the bag was torn open and
it was considered you know, contaminated evidence at that point,
and so there was no follow through there.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Now, did you feel as if there were any point
afterwards that you may have changed in some type of way,
you know, through your perceptions or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Well, it definitely had a huge psychological effect on me.
I was very apprehensive about you know, a repeat or
maybe lingering after effects of health things popping up later.
But in spite of the fact that I was a
(31:18):
workaholic for a number of years in order to suppress
the memory, working seven days a week, and you know,
I never got sick from it. I was expecting to,
you know, maybe something something would come wrong, But in
all those years afterwards, I never called in sick one time.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
M hmm. There's a question that's a little tricky because
because I had some interactions and I think I'm going
to ask it anyway, because I just wonder how you
feel about it, And I hate bringing some one else
(32:00):
into this this type of way. But you know, I
saw that Mike Rogers was kind of attacking the whole story.
And has that ever been resolved, do you know?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Or well, that's that's resolved. I mean, he was developing diabetes.
His blood sugar was out of control. He wound up
being hospitalized a number of times on account of it.
So you know, the one single tape that was made
of him saying that was being sort of dragged out
(32:33):
of him by the so called interviewer who had lied
and said that, come on, tell us it never really happened,
because Travis is willing to do it, but we just
can't meet his price. Lie. He was lying flat out.
Oh my god, it was wise enough to record my
(32:56):
conversation with this guy. I never said anything of the sort,
but he deceived. Mike tricked him into feeling like, here's
an opportunity to you know, get paid for saying it
didn't happen. Well, well, you know, nobody's paying me to
(33:16):
talk about what did happen. I'll I'll say it didn't happen,
if you maybe. I mean, throughout that conversation with that guy,
he was Mike was making reference after reference to buy
me dinner. See this is I think it's a symptom
(33:37):
of his diabetes. His blood sugar was dropping, his speech
was halting and vague, and it was really kind of strange.
He's one minute he's saying, I'm setting my saw on
a stump. In the next minute he's telling the guy that.
But Mike uh denies that that was the case at all,
(34:02):
That he was speaking a kind of as if thing
that was fed to him. That's not on the tape
from this so called investigator that you know, Mike stands
by it, and he's done interviews about it since then.
That doesn't fit that scenario that he's going to fess
(34:24):
up that it was all. It's really strange, though, don't
you think that if somebody got that out of somebody,
then they wouldn't follow up and say, oh yeah, how's that?
How do you know? You know, give me some detail.
Nothing more was ever done. It was just dropped. So
you know, I think the guy knew that wasn't a
(34:46):
real confession. He was just gonna sell it as one.
That's what he was interested in doing instead of getting something.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
It's not surprising because you look all the way back
to when Philip Klass tried to who was it? He
tried to was it sieves?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
See Pearce offered him ten thousand dollars to say it
didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I mean, isn't that incredible right there? You know, they
say follow the money. I wonder where that money if
you were to follow that offer, where that would lead?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, especially since when he concluded his pursuit of this issue,
he turned the whole investigation over to the CIA. It
turns out after Filip Class passed away that someone had
filed a FOYA Freedom of Information Act request of the
(35:40):
FBI's investigation of Philip Class. He was under extensive investigation,
apparently for selling secrets that he acquired in his role
as editor of Aviation Week in Space Technology. So you know,
I've got a copy of that file that was sent
to me, you know, probably twenty five pages, much of
(36:03):
it blacked out. I'd love to see what they had
on him. But just the fact that they were investigating
him for betraying the United States Defense secrets says.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
That's espionage, really right, I mean, that sounds like an
espionage case to me.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Well, another thing that was really strange. That seems so
psychological about it to me was the Mike and I
were on the Larry King Show and Larry brought Philip
Class in on a monitor. You've never been in my present. Ever.
That was the closest he ever came. And he leveled
(36:46):
everything at Mike Rogers. He didn't say anything to be
didn't acknowledge anything. And yet although he devoted parts of
several books to attacking the case on the base of
basis of what he was said to Mike and whatnot,
(37:06):
he never attempted to contact me. Ever. Now here's his
number one case, his main thing that he's devoted parts
of several books, and he never attempted to call me
at all. I'm not in trying to insinuate anything. I
find it puzzling. Why world would he just let that go?
You wouldn't. You would think that'd be the guy you
(37:26):
could corner and trip him up and get him to
say something you know didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Okay, So now it's the fifty year mark. I mean,
it's so hard to believe the fifty year mark. And
when you look back now, do you see anything besides
the rescue thing, which I think is something you've come
up with in the last I don't know how many years.
But do you see things differently in any type of way?
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, I speculate, you know, I've thought, well, know, we
are government, our military has satellites that are observing things
from up there, and maybe they saw the whole thing,
they knew what happened. But aside from that, it seems
(38:23):
that that, you know, there's a reason for this sort
of allowing their presence to be perceived, but not in
the kind of a way that would totally disrupt everything.
(38:46):
M hmm.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah. You know, people have asked me a number of times, well,
why do UFOs have lights? You know what I mean.
It's kind of a bizarre thing, you know, like, uh,
you know, so do they want to be detected? Some
people say, well, maybe that's the way, something to do
with their propulsion or something like that.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
But there's you know, some of both. You know, the
one that dropped me off, it turned the light off.
Maybe it was a hatch closing, but at that point
it was not glowing. It was just very shiny, metallic
and shot up into the sky.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
H wow. Now I will ask you something I don't
think I've ever asked you before. Are there any other
UFO cases that you think are really intriguing. I mean,
is do you have like a case that you think
other than your own, that you think really is, you know,
very spectacular.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I've refused to pass judgment on any other cases because
I haven't investigated any And that was what my main
objection to the criticism I was getting. People didn't even
have the basic facts of the case, and they were
talking about all kinds of things, and it was just
(40:06):
so far off. It was silly. How can they pass
judgment on some people and they don't even know what
actually happened. They didn't have any documentation for the things
that they were lodging against us. But so I've you know,
(40:27):
I can tell you that there are cases that I
consider to be exceptional, but I can't name them because
that's a slippery slope. You know pretty soon that people
are going to be wondering, well, how about this one?
What do you think of that one? I'm not going
to be judging Jerry on a bunch of cases that
I have not investigated.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Have you followed at all any of the Washington DC hearings?
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Actually I didn't. I've heard that they're looking into it,
but I expected it would be unrevealing and the secrecy
would be maintained. But I don't resent the government for
doing that. I think that's necessary. They have to keep
(41:15):
the secrets that they have. People words, come on, throw
open the files. Let's just see what you got. Well,
if there's anything of a technological nature that could be
useful in terms of our enemies on the planet. There's
(41:35):
a couple of other big nations that would love to
have the information that we might have recovered. They probably
have information they recovered. But if we said, okay, we'll
throw open our files, if you'll open yours, would we
really get everything they had? Now? I think it serves
(41:57):
as a sort of a break on aggression because they
don't know what kind of technology we might have to
defend ourselves with. And so, you know, everybody keeping their
secrets is probably a good thing.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I understand. I get a lot of what you're saying,
and I agree because unfortunately, it's human nature.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
We love to know what they have. Come on, come
out with it.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
You know, well, human nature is also what way can
we kill you? You know, what is the better way
to kill someone?
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Everything's going to get weaponized, and you know that would happen,
and I'm sure they know that, and it could very
quickly accelerate into the deteriorating situation almost immediately.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
Right whoever holds some of the most cards. Uh yeah,
I mean, you know, you think about Also my own
opinion of this is that I don't think the government
knows everything about them, and because of that, they're not
going to they can't.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Say the embarrassment for them too. Of course, in order
to justify their interest in the subject, they have to
sort of classify it as a threat. But on the
other hand, even if they knew there is no threat,
they can't be embarrassed by basically saying we don't know.
(43:32):
That would read a lot of dissatisfaction with them who
are supposed to be serving our needs and satisfying our curiosity.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Right and also protecting you know, that's another thing, you know,
they if they don't know, that means they don't know
what it is, they don't know how to protect us.
If that's if need be really.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Well people, if people want to assume that it's a threat.
But I don't, like I said, I've been doing this
for decades, many many years, and so if they had
sinister plans we never know what hit us. We'd be
gone in a day overnight. Ah.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, I believe that. I believe one. And you know,
I mean there's been a few cases where it might
seem like there's been aggression, and some of that may
very well be, but some of that might be exactly
what you feel happened to you as well.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Add or misunderstood. But you have to think that being
super advanced in intelligence would make you more moral, I mean,
(44:55):
because evil is stupid. Yeah. Evil is a man festation
of ignorance in some way. And I don't see how
you can be in possession of massive amounts of technology
and understanding this kind of stuff because if they were evil,
(45:15):
they would have destroyed each other before getting to us.
I mean, that's the nature of you know, weaponizing everything.
I don't I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah. I mentioned this before on my show, but I
had Jeffrey Bennett who was a visiting scientists astrophysicist at NASA,
and he said the water cooler talk was, you know,
if a society can get through the bottleneck of technology
without blowing themselves up, they'll be traveling the stars. I
always thought that was one of my favorite lines I
(45:50):
heard someone say on my show.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah, yeah, and it makes sense. You know, the early
Europeans come into the less developed primitive nations in South
America Africa. You know, the contact was destructive. In almost
every case. You disrupted things that had been in place
(46:17):
for a very long period of time.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Another question someone asked me to ask you, did you
experience any unusual dreams, perceptions, or a heightened awareness in
the years after the incident.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah? I did. I had some dreams that I thought,
could this be other memories that I'm coming back spontaneously?
So I asked Tracy Tormae, who had researched the case
and written the book Firing the Sky about my case,
if he thought that this could be memories coming back
(46:53):
to me, and he says, no, They're probably just dreams.
But then a few years later I asked him the
same question and he seemed to forget his earlier opinion
and said, oh, yeah, those could be memories coming back.
But I never pursued it, and I haven't pursued additional hypnosis,
(47:14):
especially after hearing about Steve's traumatic hypnosis.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
This has this incident. You said you were a workaholic,
working sevent days a week. Did it ever affect your
work life in any type of way. I mean, people
obviously must recognize you a lot over the years.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
I mean like I worked very hard to get there
and regain some credibility and have them see me strictly
for what I for what I could do in the
job and perform. And and I think I won that
because you know, I got some respect on the job.
(47:58):
You know, I became the head of maintenance at the
first corporation and and also positions of higher responsibility in
the second one. So apparently they appreciated my grounded, groundedness,
(48:23):
if we can call it that.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Uh huh great. Someone wants to know if you could
talk a little bit more about the The Fire in
the Sky movie that might be coming out. Do you
have any other details in that.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
I don't want to talk too much about the new movie.
The script was undertaken. It starts in a different position.
It's later in the series of events. I thought it
was wrong in the original movie to start where it did.
It's out of sequence. I think audience needs to be
(49:02):
grounded in where what things were like before everything went crazy.
But this script is not complete, and that comes first.
You don't. You don't get any sort of production company.
You don't get any commitment from studios or anything until
(49:24):
they have a completed script.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Right, yep, I totally get that. Someone wanted to know,
did you see an orb? I never heard about this before,
but was there an orb underneath the craft?
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah? I've seen in my life an orb. I was
with a large group of people headed to Phoenix to go.
I think we were going there for a movie or
for there was a I think it might have been
a movie. But anyway, this u glow glowing thing. It
(50:03):
was overcast, we can see the clouds were lit up.
But what happened was this giant, it was huge sphere,
glowing sphere, came down through the clouds, moved across and
went back up into the clouds. My future wife's sister said,
(50:26):
is it the end of the world? I mean, it
was that scary, but that was it. It was just
a sighting, very huge, dramatic, you know the you know,
but when you're looking at a sphere or something object
in the sky, you can only you can't. You don't
(50:48):
have any measurements to compare it to. So the angle
subtended judges the size, the size of this sphere was many, many,
many times what the the moon or the sun or
anything like that would be. So it was huge.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Wow, is that something? And you know the term you
just said about the end of the world type of thing.
So many people have said that they felt like it
was the end of the world when they when they
saw their sighting. Was there any part of that incident
where you thought they're back.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
Well, it was so you know, standing by itself kind
of a thing. Heck, even after that, I had a
sighting of one of the giant black triangles. Really yeah.
(51:47):
Jan Harzan had a move on. Was giving a speech
in Burbank, California, and Tracy Tormay, the writer of the
movie script the Travis the Fire in the Sky movie,
had given a talk that night and my son and
(52:09):
I and my girlfriend were leaving Burbank driving north up
to the freeway across to Arizona when we saw this
light in the distance. But it came at us so
quickly that it very very almost immediately was visible as
three lights, and it was a gigantic black triangle that
(52:33):
moved quicker than any You know, when you see a
jet plane coming in for a landing at the airport.
It looks like it's just crawling through the sky. When
you know that if it wasn't going a couple hundred
miles an hour, at least it'd fall out of the sky. Well,
this thing was moving many many times faster than that,
and it was huge. It was, you know, I thought
(52:53):
maybe a quarter of a mile across. It was gigantic
and very low, so low, But there was a light
on each point of the triangle. And it seemed that
these lights, if they were lights, because they had a
sort of a shimmering glow to them, I think they
might have been something that had to do with what
(53:17):
was supporting it.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
You know, what about in the center? Was there anything?
Did you see a light in the center as well?
Speaker 2 (53:23):
And you know, I've heard many reports that there have
been lights in the center. I saw none in this case.
And my girlfriend could look straight up through the back
window and see the surface of it. It was a
sort of a mat semi gloss textured black surface. But
(53:46):
it's huge. And the point of the triangle that was
towards us when it arrived turned to its right ninety
degrees and then shot off impossibly quickly towards the Pacific Ocean.
Now I wouldn't have even reported this because there was
only US three witnesses, but turned out that a website
(54:13):
called ufostocker dot com was taking reports and more than
a dozen people reported seeing the same thing. It was
set up on a sort of a Google Maps kind
of a thing, a circle with numbers, And each of
these people were people who didn't even know each other.
They were all in that area at that time, at
that date, and I saw the same thing. So this
(54:37):
is something that many people see in report. Sometimes there's
a light in the center of the triangle. I if
it was if it was aliens, it was them saying hello,
we're still here. Because one of the odds that it
would stop right over the top of us in a
(54:57):
highly populated area in the sanity of Los Angeles. If
it was the government wanted to get me to report
it as a UFO, that would fit too. But where
would they park such a gigantic thing. It's it's so
(55:18):
huge you couldn't hide it.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
I've often said that I don't they can't build a
hangar that big. When people are talking about something being
you know, a mile wide or whatever, it's just impossible.
But I can't believe our time is up. I want
to thank you so much and I'll be seeing you
just a couple of weeks down the road.
Speaker 2 (55:38):
See you then.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, thank you very much. I really do appreciate you
coming on. I know how tired you. I hope you
get some good rest and all right, take care, all
right everyone, So we'll be back next week with Nugent
Cantleano and Jensine Anderson. Thanks again and keep your eyes
(56:02):
to the sky.
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