December 16, 2025 • 56 mins
Retired law enforcement officers Dave Rich and Marianne Robb join host Martin Willis for a wide-ranging conversation on why first responders can be uniquely strong UAP/UFO witnesses—and why the professional fallout after reporting can be just as traumatic as the encounter itself. They break down how academy/scenario-based training shapes observation under stress, then pivot into major police-involved cases including the multi-agency “Lumberton” triangle flap (four nights of sightings across multiple counties), RCMP officer Jim Blackwood (flashlight interaction), Lonnie Zamora (Socorro), and Val Johnson (1979)—including the physical damage to his patrol car and the long-term consequences for witnesses who speak publicly. The discussion also highlights the mission of UAPD (UAP-PD): providing a confidential, “safe zone” for active and retired first responders to share UAP/paranormal/cryptid experiences without fear of ridicule or career impact. Dave recounts the 2017 incident that led to UAPD’s formation—an unexplained 911 call from an empty school, follow-up investigation steps (video, phone/line checks, audio analysis), and the pressure he faced afterward to stay silent. If you’re a first responder with an experience you’ve kept to yourself, you are not alone—and support exists.
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello, and welcome to the show of Martin Willis your host.
We have a couple of great guests coming up tonight.
We have a Dave Rich and mary Anne Rob. I
have met them several times at Marianne that's actually a
longtime friend and retired police officers that had had a
real interest in this topic of UFOs and have done
(00:36):
a lot of exploration. And Dave has actually had a
incident happen. We can touch on that I did last
time they were on, But anyway, I'm really excited to
have them on. Just a couple of things this coming
Thursday at a PM. I was hoping to have James Fox,
but it looks like he got pushed into the following week.
So I decided to do something I used to do
(00:58):
back with Lee Spiegel and other friends years ago, and
that is a year in review. So that's what we're
going to do on Thursday night starting at eight pm.
So far, I have Jack UFO. Jack is going to
be joining me as he did for the Age of
Disclosure Review. He's going to be on and a couple
of other people, so it should be a lot of fun.
(01:19):
So look for that this coming Thursday at eight pm.
This is a pre recorded show, and like I always say,
I'm too lazy to edit, So all my shows are
just like live shows, whether I am doing them live
or not. And I should be in the chat. I
am traveling Tuesday. That's why I'm doing it this way,
so hopefully I will be in the chat and see
(01:40):
you there. And without further ado, I'm bringing in my
two guests, and I just want to say one other thing.
So as you notice a lot of people here, notice
there are two different streams. One is for the phone,
which has really actually taken off for your smartphone or
tablet or whatever the way it's formatted. So when there
are two guests in the same it's a little tricky.
(02:01):
I have to do it a certain way, but anyway,
hopefully that'll work out this time. And you can always
tell which is the landscape regular stream on YouTube or
what is the phone, because they're gonna have little phone
icons next to the one that is for your smartphone.
So I do appreciate all of the people that watch
(02:21):
this show, also all the listeners. We're coming up on
the holiday, so I wish you all happy holidays, and
we're going to be giving away on Thursday, a couple
of T shirts and hats things like that to people
that participate live. So anyway, I'm looking forward to this show.
And oh one more thing, so the blog. I do
(02:43):
not have the title of the blog this week yet,
but it will be a new blog. You'll check out
check it out over at podcastsufo dot com. Those turn
into audio blogs are in our audio podcast feed. If
you are looking for an AD free experience, for only
two dollars a month, figure that less than a cup
of coffee, you can have an AD free experience and
(03:04):
you can get to Patreon and use the feed that
way if you are listening to the audio podcast. So,
without further Ado, welcome you too. Hey, as it goes,
it's good good, and so we have to squish together
to make this work. So it's been a pleasure meeting
(03:24):
you both. And of course Marian you we've been friends
for a long time and it's been really fun. It's
always great to get together. And anyway, I just have
to say, you know, I mean, we'll just start right out,
because I have had this conversation with people before, like,
for instance, I always bring them up Seth Shastak of SETI.
(03:49):
I said, well, don't you consider like police officers and
military and pilots, you know, better witnesses. And he said, no,
they're no more better than anyone else. That's exactly what
he said. And I want you to kind of argue
that point. Why are you, as a police officer a
better observer?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I would say that the reason why a police officer
or any first responder is a better observer is because
of the training that we receive in becoming a police officer.
They do a rather extensive psychological profile of you, looking
specifically for certain characteristics. And those characteristics that they really
are looking for are your ability to handle a high
stress situation and still remember your training or remember to
(04:33):
not kind of fly off the handle and kind of
rain everything in. Do you want to kind of control
that situation. So when you see something, whether it's a
robbery or a burglary, or a stolen vehicle, or a
light in the sky or a paranormal experience at a
house or something in the woods, both of those situations,
(04:53):
as a first responder, we're trained to go into those situations,
see something that is unexpected and then be able to
kind of gather that information and then impartial be the
best witness. They always say, be the best witness that
you can be situation, But we already have the advantage
of being basically grilled through the academy, through our training
(05:14):
classes to be thrown into these scenarios. They always do
this scenario based training, and so you're constantly getting thrown
into these scenarios where you really don't know what's going
to happen, and you like walk into a room and
then stuff happens, and it's designed to put you in
that scenario of Ooh, I wasn't expecting that. But I'm
still able to process this information, gathering this information because
(05:38):
at the end of each scenario, you're then put in
a room and be like, Okay, so tell us what happened,
what did you see? What did you not see? So
and I guess against what Seth was saying, I would
say anybody who has had that level of training is
going to just inherently be a more reliable witness, and
a witness is going to be able to control their
emotions a little bit better in those scenario. So I
(06:00):
would argue that.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Mary An, you ever youthink to add to that.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Not really, I mean, he just hit the nail on
the head. One thing is we go to a scene.
I've gone to accident scene, say, and I talked to
five different witnesses. Most of them again are just upset.
They are just rattled what they saw. And then you
(06:27):
ask them, Okay, what did you see? They might say
it was a blue car and a red car, and
this is what happened. This is what happened. Yet it
was say, a green car and a yellow car or
something like that. They're not going to be good witnesses.
They're not really paying attention like a police officers trained
(06:49):
to really pay attention to whatever situation is that they
come upon. Well.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And like a great example that we would give during
some of our talks, like which officer do you want
showing up at the scene when you have a car
accident you're bleeding out. Do you want the guy that
shows up and goes, Okay, you're gonna be fine, everything's good,
don't worry, we have help coming. I'm gonna put pressure
on the wound. We're gonna be good. We're gonna walk
through this together. Or do you want the guy that
(07:16):
comes up and goes, WHOA, that's a lot of blood, man,
What is going on? That's supposed to be attached. You don't.
Oh god, you're done, dude, what do you want showing up?
And as an officer, whether you're a firefighter or police officer,
any first responder, you're not gonna get it. The second guy,
he's not showing up. And that is all based off
(07:38):
of the training of you're going into a situation that
you don't know and may not have a lot of
control over, but you sare better look like you have
control because that's how you're going to save these lives
and how you're gonna win the day at the end.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And there are so many, so so many cases where
police officers were involved as witnesses. I mean you can
just historically and you know, I think I do believe
maybe it has been a blog of Charles Lear, but
if not, I'll remind him it would make a great
blog to do. Just oh yes he did, actually I
(08:13):
think no, no, that was about police officers becoming ufologists,
that's what he did. But anyway, I think it would
be a great, you know, story to write because there's
so many. I mean, I could just think of a
whole bunch of them right off the top of my head.
And one of the ones I always thought was really
amazing was the one who my good friend Lee Spiegel
(08:34):
I just mentioned down in North Carolina is in Lamberton.
That is such a great case. And do you know
about that case? I mean, when I bring up a
case like that, it probably should talk about it. I know.
Let me just tell you what I know and then
you can add to it. So Lee got a call
from Jay Allen Heinek and he said, hey, you know,
(08:58):
would you like to go investigate a UFO down in
North Carolina? And Li said, well, yeah, what's the details. Well,
this triangle UFO, it keeps showing up in Lumberton, I
think that's the name of it, and you know it's
being witnessed by police officers and everything else. And he says,
(09:19):
so you want me to go and investigate a flying dorrito?
That's what Lee said. His exact words were. So he
shows up and sure enough, this thing just they're all
standing together, this thing just shows right up, a triangle
UFO and it glides right over them and sends down
a beam of light between him and all these police officers.
(09:39):
I mean, it doesn't get better than that. And I
do believe there was another officer that was on the
road somewhere and actually pulled over with his flashlight and
shined it up at it. I don't know if you know.
Do you know any more details than that?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Oh, yeah, that's one of the stories. It takes I'm
not kidding. It probably takes about fifteen minutes to tell
the story. Yeah, there's about thirty officers, I want to say,
several counties, yeah, eleven different agencies. That it started in
Lumberton that one night, and I don't have the actual
(10:15):
date right now, but it started in Lumberton. Three officers
watch a thing go above a water tower and it
took off from there, and they tried to contact it,
you know, and just kind of drive up. It took
off to the next town. One of the officers radio
to that next town to talk to the officer. Hey,
(10:36):
get out there, there is this craft coming over your way.
There is no sound, you know, it has its lights.
There is absolutely no sound to this thing, and it's huge.
So again that officer went and he chased it to
another town and it just kept going from town to
town to town. Now what's interesting is that it would
(10:59):
disappear just as daylight was coming up, So say six
o'clock in the morning or five o'clock in the morning.
It would disappear as soon as about ten o'clock at night.
The next night, boom, it reappears and reappears in Lumberton again,
and that chases on. What's really cool is this dispatcher
(11:20):
that started this whole thing was what he was the
first one to get like ten or twenty phone calls
from citizens about this craft coming over. Well, he was
so on the ball that he's the one that called
the center of the UFO studies, which is doctor j
(11:41):
Ellen Heinek screw. He's the one that started that. And
then as all of these this craft was going over,
he was listening being in a I was a police
officer in a small town for a few years up
here in Arizona, and one of the things that we
had is we had scannered that we were able to
(12:04):
hear the Sheriff's office, the highway Patrol, other agencies, and
we all contacted each other through this inner agency radio,
you know, the scanner. And that's what was happening, is
that the dispatch was listening to all this stuff that
was going on. Then let's see, it's one officer would
(12:30):
catch it. You're talking about the officer that put the
light on two times. One it was a chief of
police at this one agency, White River, white Horse. It
was a city or a town, and he took a
light that's like a one of those airplane landing lights
that he had in his trunk and he set it up.
(12:53):
And that's what he did is he blinked his light
at this craft and the craft was blinking the light back.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
In it him.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
That dispatcher that was hearing all this a couple of
days later, it was his day off. So what did
he do. He wanted to go get into the action.
And you know what, you got to be careful what
you wish for, because that's exactly what happened. He saw
the craft. He actually again got out of his car.
The craft was, you know, just suspended right next to him,
(13:26):
and he went in put his lights, flashed his head
lights at it. It flashed back at him, well neither,
and then it took off. And what the officer did
was or what the dispatcher he tried to follow, but
this thing just took off. Now what's interesting about this
case is, like I said, it was seven counties that
(13:47):
reported this. There were times that this craft started going
toward South Carolina, but it didn't. It didn't reach the border.
This thing could have went anywhere, but for four nights
it stayed in the Seven Counties. The first time it
was seen by a water tower. The last time, I
believe it was seen near a water tower. So what
(14:10):
are they getting Are they getting their energy? Are they
getting water from this water tower to you know, to
make the craft go? Is at their fuel? My analogy
on all this, which I thought was kind of funny,
is this craft one night went like one one city,
(14:31):
then came back to the other. They came back to
the other and people were just chasing it. It reminds
me of a Friday night with a bunch of teenagers
in mom and Dad's car that were, you know, playing
with the police department and just running back and forth,
and they were just they were just chasing this craft.
But the end of the the end of this four
(14:54):
day adventure, there was an off duty police officer that
was going to church. It was a Sunday morning and
he was going to church with his family and he
saw this craft which looks like it landed in a field.
So they got agencies to come I want to say
it was just either in lumber Ten or just outside
(15:15):
of lumber Ten, and they actually found these burnt circular spots.
Was a triangle. I apologize I don't have the story
front of me, but I believe in the triangle that
they found in a field behind this barn, and the
(15:35):
owners of the ranch came back or the farm and
said they weren't there when we left earlier. So whatever,
it was landed for a short time. But then but
after the four days, I don't believe that that was
ever seen again. And it was great. I you know,
I got the the Project blue Book, or at least
(15:58):
the the the information not from the Center of UFO Studies.
I don't think it was Project blue Book, but I
got all of the files that Lease Fegel had in
all these police agencies. It is just one of the
coolest stories that we've told as a historical case.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I love it. And I never knew about the landing.
I never heard that before. And you know, I have
to say, ever since I started this show, it's been
one of the biggest puzzles that I always ask opinions of,
is why do these sightings happen in the very same
place and what you said, the thing could go anywhere
(16:43):
it wants to. But for a continued time, this seems
to happen a lot. And recently I brought up Chase
Klutsky's you know, siting in Tennessee where the big triangle
was going over you know, this celebrity can't say who
it is, but over his you know, cornfields over and
(17:03):
over again. Sure enough it showed up right in front
of her and she went there to completely disprove it.
And yeah, so it just it's such a puzzle. Then,
you know, why on earth are they contained to a
certain area over and over again, sometimes just for days,
and then they're gone. You never see them again. It's
(17:24):
it's it's just as much of a mystery as the
rest of it.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Oh, no doubt. I just yeah, it would be great
to you know, capture.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
One uh one of the as the some questions perhaps.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Or whatever, and terrogate these guys.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
And yeah, that's right under the light. Yeah so yeah.
And another thing is the interaction with the flashlights that
happened the algash incident, that happened with Father Gill incident
in Papa now gandhi uh one am I trying to say.
I'm trying to remember where he was located. The Father
(18:02):
Gil case. That's a great case where the flashlight he
called it a torch and the thing was reacting to
the torch. That also happened at a case where someone
pulled over on the side of the road and I'm
trying to remember. I think it might have been Australia,
but I'm not sure where. They flashed up at a
UFO and it blinked, you know, back at them the interactions.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, flashlights, Yeah, Clarendon Nova Scotia. It was a Royal
Canadian Mounted Police officer. Jim Blackwood.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Oh, yes, that's right, I know all about that. Yes,
he's now the he's now the raccoon Whisperer. If you
look them up on YouTube. He lives in a cabin
and he has all these raccoons come to him every night.
Check it out on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But yeah, he talks about shining the flashlight at was
hovering over the water and then that's right, which takes off.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
But talking about that and being a raccoon whisper now
because of that's an incident that he had and that
the department basically forced him to talk to the press
that just totally ruined him, ruined his career and probably
psychologically just totally screwed him up.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, we can't. We can't leave that without talking about
Lonnie's a moura very similar thing. He would have never
if he could have gone back. He probably wishes he
never you know, he's no longer with us, but he
probably wished he never said anything. He actually said that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
No, yes, Blackwood said it as well. He literally was
quoted as saying it was the worst mistake I ever did,
was talking about it.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
But I think more was very important. I mean, think
of you know, that's when Jay Allen Heinech took his
turning point between the skepticism to realizing there was really
something to this with such a credible witness.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So yeah, another one. So if you're new to the
whole UFO thing, if you check out the Sikora incident,
s O c r O incident, you will see all
that information. Hopefully I spelled it right, But anyway, we
can put some of these things in the show notes,
so people can you know, click on a link and
(20:15):
actually see these different things. But yeah, I mean I
love police officer cases and I know you have done
so many investigations on this, and you looked into it historically.
So either one of you want to comment on what
do you think some of the better unknown ones are.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Well, well, yeah, if we're talking historical minds, Val.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Johnson, Yes, the cruiser still exists, right, I mean the
cruiser is somewhere.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
You know. It's interesting that was it. There was somebody
that I just oh, I don't want to say his names.
I don't know if he would mind that or not,
but he knows. Val Johnson now still around. I would
love to meet them. And that car is still at
the museum there in Minnesota, his car that this incident happened.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
This is a fascinating story.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, I don't know if you want to kind of
go into it a little.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Bit, Yeah, yeah, why don't we. Here's the here's pulling
up right now because my great blogger Charles lear jed
a story on this particular case. And look there he
is right there. This will again we'll be in the
show notes. But go right ahead, go right into it.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I love this, okay, Well, nineteen seventy nine, that was
on patrol. It was late at night in I believe
it was worn Minnesota and he was driving up a
highway and the highway came to a t intersection just
up the road, and he looked off to his left
and he noticed this large white tight ball that's just
(21:52):
hovering above the roadway. So he's thinking plane crash, car crash.
He has no idea what he has, So I made
the turn. He starts going down toward this light. All
of a sudden, this light goes crashes through his windshield,
hits him in the chest, and he said it felt
like a two hundred pound pillow hitting his chest. Well,
(22:15):
it knocked him out and his car kind of just
kind of drifted to the side, came to a stop
a few hundred yards from you know where he got hit.
Got on the radio and says, I don't know what
it was. I don't have no idea, but this thing
came through my windshield. Ams shows up, other officers show up.
(22:40):
They take val to the hospital. Now, doctor says they
examined his eyes. They says both eyes had burns like
they were arc welder burns on both eyes. His both
his jaw and his teeth were cracked at the gumlet line.
(23:01):
They were all raptured and they could figure out what
in the world this thing was. So they they take
the car and they have the GM guys come out
to inspect the car. They also have somebody from like
(23:21):
oh gosh, General Dynamics or whatever they had back there.
There was another organization that came out and they checked
his car out and the results, the official result was
it was something that's it just something hit his car.
Nobody could actually say what exactly hit his car. They
(23:46):
had no idea. So, and what was interesting if you
look at the picture of the car, whatever this thing
was that hit his car, it went up over the
front bumper, It broke the headlight on the driver's side,
It went up, it hit the driver's side window, it
(24:08):
hit the overhead emergency lights of his patrol car on
the driver's side, broke an antenna and went straight over. Now,
if it was a bird, if it was a some
kind of hard object, whether it was a rock, when
it hits that the front bumper, it's gonna go different ways.
(24:30):
It's gonna just ping off and it's gonna hit the
driver's side, or it's it's it's going to miss the
rest of the car. But like the picture you have
up there right there, is it actually went right up
and over just the driver's side, which was really unique.
So I now this one was Project blue Book. I
(24:53):
did look at all of the reports that came in
from doctor j Allen Heinek and everybody, everyone, every single person,
Jailen Heineck and everybody said, this guy is truthful. What
he is saying is truthful. Even his supervisor, his chief
of police, was on this guy's side. But I do
(25:17):
believe that he was another one that I think it
just kind of ended his career on this because I
think it was just there was a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
But basically I do believe that was I'm sorry, I
hate to correct you, but that was Kufo's because this
happened in nineteen seventy nine, right, okay, oh, not Project
Glue Book.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Then this was another one that I just found with
Heine's probably the investigation that he's done. Again, I'm sorry
about that. Probably not black Project blue Book. But I've
seen some of reports from doctor Jalen Heineck on this
and it's like, wow, this this was I think this
was an amazing story.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Absolutely. Yeah. So one of the better ones.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, and one of the things that I think a
lot of people forget about is kind of going off
of what when we first started the show talking about
Seth's comment about how police officers aren't any different than
any other witness. There is one aspect where first responders
aren't any different than any other witness, and that's the
fallout after the fact, because yeah, we're trained to go
(26:31):
into a situation and take control of the situation. But then,
like we're talking here, what happened to Jim blackwotot what
happened to Lanie Zamar, what happened to Vale Johnson and
all these other first responders that sees them when they
come forward and talk, the trauma that they see from
seeing this thing, the fallout that they have that they
have to face in some cases is even amplified because
(26:53):
of the career that they have. And that's kind of
a lot of what brought Marian and I together with
u APPD was to provide that safe environment. But I
think a lot of people forget about that. Like Lanie's
a more story, it's an amazing story, but very few
people know about what happened to Lannie after that's right,
And like Jim Blackwood's story, amazing story. Bil Johnson an
(27:16):
amazing story. Nobody ever asked, hey, what happened to this guy?
Like a week, a month, a year after the sighting?
And I think a lot of people kind of forget
about that. Part is that these are still people just
like every other witness, and in some cases, like I said,
the fallout is even more pronounced because of their chosen
career and the training that they have that allowed them
(27:37):
to enter into that situation and be such amazing witnesses.
Now there's a ramification.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I look at a situation like what Ryan Graves has
put together for pilots, you know that well they can
actually report without worrying about it. Now, have you ever
considered any type of organization or is this what are
you hope to have? This where people that are officers,
whether they're retired or active, can actually come to you
(28:06):
and say, look, this happened. I'd like to talk about it,
you know, in a way that.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Is exactly what we're trying to do with this.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
We started this because of Dave's incident that he had
back in twenty seventeen where he was ridiculed. He was
basically told by a supervisor that he was lying, he
needs to shut up or he'll lose his career. And
we know that there are so many officers out there
(28:35):
that this has happened to. And that's again why we
started now. We had to wait until he retired because
if we started this beforehand, good possibility he might have fired.
So we waited until everything was safe and he was
able to retire, and then we started an organization. Now
(28:57):
he had to suffer for for six years by keeping
it inside. It's stressed. I mean I've known this guy
for over twenty five years and I could see the
stress on him. I know it stressed out his family
and stressed out his career when he was working. So
(29:18):
we don't want officers to wait till they retired to
come forward and talk to us like unfortunately Dave had
to do. That's why we started UAPPD is that this
is a what I call a safe zone that they
can come to us now, right now and share their
experience with us. Get it off your chest, get that
(29:40):
stress out, whether you know so, and it's it's safe
to where even if you're working, you're on duty, you
won't be identified.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, we're not going to say who you are.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Yeah, we just want you to know that you are
not crazy. Stuff like this does happen, and we are
here to help. We are here to listen to you
and to make you understand that you know what you
saw is you saw it. I mean, there's no two
ways about it. Can we explain it? No, but you
(30:12):
did see something, and no, you don't keep it inside.
We don't want you.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
To do that. And that's one of the things that
we kind of push is like, it's not just UFO's
settings site. My incident had nothing to do with the
UFOs is paranormal, but we have stories. Since we've started
this thing about two and a half years ago, we've
now gathered somewhere close to about ninety original stories, so
stories that most people have never heard of, in everything
(30:39):
from UFO to cryptids to paranormal encounters, demonic encounters. We
as an organization don't care what you saw because our
focus is the first responder. We want to hear your
story because the first step towards recovery or first step
towards healing is to find somebody that's safe, that you
can talk, who's not going to judge you, who's not
(31:01):
going to criticize you, and you can feel safe and
comfortable telling knowing that we're not going to run back
to your agency and be like, oh, and just so
you know, so and so came up to us on
Saturday and told us that they saw bigfoot. We're not
going to say any of that stuff. And they can't
make us say that. There's no leverage and agency can't
come out and say, well, you need to tell us
what this guy talking about. No, we don't. They have
(31:24):
no leeway or no leverage to try and force us
to talk about anything. But what we want to do
is we want to make sure that the officers, the firefighters, whoever,
game wargans, park rangers corrections, they know that they can
come to us and talk. We will help them, and
in some cases we've even helped them find other specialists
(31:45):
in the field that can help them as far as
therapists or counselors or people that have had similar incidents
that can help them negotiate it. Because again, at the
end of the day, yeah, we would love to come
up with all the answers and what these things are,
and we love doing investigations into things when we get
these stories, but at the end of the day, our
(32:05):
main focus is to help first responders recover from whatever
it was that they've encountered, and that first step is
to just come forward, be able to talk in a
safe environment where you're not going to be judging, and
you're not going to be looked at this crazy. In fact,
we're going to have you walk out of there realizing
that you're not crazy. And there's a lot of stuff
in this world that nobody really understands exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I say that I wonder about reality sometimes, you know,
in general. But let's see, I would like for you
to tell you a story. I know you did last
time you were on, but I'd still like you to
repeat it if you would. But before you do that,
is there any is there any outstanding UFO cases that
(32:48):
you have been told that you could tell us now
that would not you know, you know, endanger anyone's privacy.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Probably well Australia. I vote to tell them about the
Australia case. We got a story. Gosh, it's probably only
been like maybe three months ago that this story came in.
So since we've started, we've been on thanks to the
people like you, we have been on a number of
different podcasts and so our organization is finally starting to
(33:18):
reach some pretty far areas. We get called by a
police constole. She's now a retired police constable from Australia,
from the the Golden Coaster, like north of Sydney, Australia.
And she basically tells us that like for most of
her life that she can remember, she has had these
(33:40):
weird encounters with extraterrestrial craft and entities. We'll say, so
it really like she gave us three specific incidents that
happened in her life, one of which she actually sent
us video that she took with her cell phone. That
part is really cool because she's in her lip room working.
(34:02):
She's an artist now now that she's retired from police work.
She does artwork, and she's in her living room kind
of just drawing and stuff. There's this big window. She
looks out the window and she sees this white object
very similar to what they talk about when they say
the tic tac. She's like, it's white, it had no
wings on it, and it's just kind of humming along
in the sky. So she runs outside, pulls out her
(34:24):
cellphone and she's able to get a little maybe six
second clip of it. But the thing that was interesting
is you look at this and you can clearly see
that there's no wings on it, and it's cruising along
and then all of a sudden, it's almost at first
it has to come into focus, but once it's in focus,
it goes along and then all of a sudden it
kind of flickers and then vanishes like and when I
(34:45):
say it vanishes, like you're watching it. It's there, and
then it flickers and it's gone, like you don't see
it jet off in a direction, it just is gone.
And so she saw that from her backyard. But then
she told us that she's had like when she was
in her so ten or twelve, her dad and mom
and siblings were in a boat and there was another
(35:07):
boat next to them that had a neighbor in it
that they were fishing, and some craft just kind of
came down and hovered over the water, like right in
front of them. So they're all like looking at this
craft like no idea what it is. It's just hovering
over the water and then it zips off. Very short encounter.
But because of these encounters, she started remembering like this
(35:28):
recurring dream and a lot of people who have had
either abductions or encounters like that will remember these dreams.
From previously, and so she has this recurring dream and
in the dream, it's when she was five years old,
and she remembers waking up in this room and she
describes this room as being very clinical, like steel, table
(35:52):
like very like a white light over them, and she
remembers that there were four individuals in the room standing
around the table, and she sees the two that I believe,
she said, around like her left side. She knows that
there's two more on the right side, but she doesn't
remember what they looked like, but she describes them that
like one was male, one was female, and the female
(36:15):
is trying to communicate with her telepathically, like she doesn't
see her lips moving, but she can hear them talking,
and she did not for some reason. She's like, I
did not like the woman. I didn't like her, and
she the woman was very mad about that, was angry
that she didn't like her, but she felt okay about
the guy. And so she described the two entities as
(36:38):
looking very Nordic. They had blonde hair, blue eyes, very
very she described it being an artist, she said, she
described it as being they were very symmetrical, and she's like,
when something is very symmetrical. It looks very esthetically pleasing.
So she said they were very attractive, the woman and
the man, and she's like, and they were very She's
(37:00):
she described as being very symmetrical, and she actually gave
us a drawing of what the two look like. But
she remembered like specific things about Like she says she
remembers being embarrassed because she wasn't wearing any clothes on
the table, and she remembered, at five years old, she's like,
this isn't right. I shouldn't be here without clothes on
with these people. I don't know who these people are,
(37:20):
And she remembers that she could overhear the conversation between
the two entities that again, like, I said that the
female entity was very angry that she didn't like her,
but the guy was like, well, it's no big deal,
she likes me sort of thing. And then that's pretty
much where the dream ends. But you look at a
situation like that and it's like, here we have somebody
(37:43):
who's a training police constable who's now retired, and she
has given us three incidents that has happened, one in
which she literally gave us a video that happened as
an adult while she's looking out her back window, one
while she was in her adolescence, and one when she
was And so to me, it's like a fascinating like
(38:04):
kind of like how long has she been encountering these things?
How long have they? Are they all related? All three
of these visits of her. Could they all be the
same individuals or same entities coming back to visit her
three times? Are they separate? Why are they coming? Like?
It opens up a ton of questions about it, But
(38:26):
the one thing that we can't escape is here you
have somebody who is trained to handle these emotional situations
and not be upset and be a good witness, and
she's giving us literal physical evidence of videos of stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Well that is that's a really amazing story. And you
often hear about people thinking that they're having a dream,
and I mean, that's one of the most common things
you hear about when people are having the so called experiences. So,
did she give you permission to share that clip?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Not really yet, We're kind of still talking with her
about it. And again our organization, we will only share
what the person is willing to let us share. At
that I understand, but that doesn't mean at some point
down the road is she sees more of what we're
doing and she becomes a little bit more comfortable with
it that she might be willing to because we have
(39:22):
had some people that have been like, oh no, I
don't want anything, and then after a while they're like, yeah, okay,
I'm okay if you use my name in the stage
presentation or you use the video and like a stage
presentation or something like that. So we have like different
levels of what they'll let us do. Sure, and when
they get more comfortable with us and get more and
understand that, we are adamant that we are only going
(39:44):
to go as far as they let us go. And
that's how we gain our credibility. Because if ifoy said, hey,
I don't want you doing that, then we do it anyways,
then we're never going to get anybody to trust us.
So we definitely let them dictate how far we can go.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Sure, I understand in that. Thank you. So we have
about fifteen minutes left now, Marianne, if you don't mind
telling your story, and then we'd like to go back
to you Dave, to tell us you know your your situation,
what happened.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
To you you Unfortunately, I don't have a story.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Oh okay, I thought no. I thought you said you
had when I asked if there was a story.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
That someone Okay, I was gonna say that.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
That's what I meant. I didn't mean your own story.
I meant I was.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Gonna say, you know, it's kind of funny that Dave has.
You know, that's why we started because of Dave. And
I have never seen anything. I've never felt no. Yeah,
but you know, but definitely I know people have had.
Case happened on up in Indian Reservation. And we had
an officer who was working night shift and as he
(40:48):
was out in this one area, all of a sudden,
he saw four different lights that were just flying in
the sky and they were kind of following each other.
They were kind of going away from each other, but
they were just like they were playing tag with each other,
says where he said it, And they were just all busy.
All of a sudden, one of those lights shut down
(41:10):
to ground level about maybe a half mile or so
in front of him, and all of a sudden, this
it was a blue light, bright blue light that came
and totally lit up the area. Well, he got out
of his patrol car, and he's like, you know, he
(41:30):
was fumbling around. He didn't know what to do, and
he's like he couldn't believe this was happening right in
front of him. So he wasn't able to put on
his body came right away, but he was smart enough
to grab his phone and he started taking pictures of
this thing that was on the ground, covering above the
ground and making that blue light. As he was taking
(41:51):
the pictures, you could see a fire hydrant, you could
see a I think it was a telephone pole, and
all that's illuminated from whatever this light was coming from.
Now he looked up and three of those other little crafts,
of those little lights that were flying around. They were
(42:14):
kind of hovering in the area. They never came down,
but they were just kind of hovering and just going
flying around right in that area where that fourth one
came down and hovered. I'd say, I think he said,
maybe twenty seconds, thirty seconds or so. All of a sudden,
that blue light went off and it shot back up
(42:38):
into the sky. The four of them pretty much got
together and that just shot off and the sky were gone.
And he had no idea what in the world this was.
And again he met with us, he gave us the
photos that he took, but he was bewildered on he
(43:00):
just saw.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
And there's a couple other things that are really interesting
about the story. So, first of one, as he told
us that it's a blue light, but in the picture
it looks green on his cell phone. He's like, I
don't know why, but it looks green on the cell phone.
But it definitely was blue naturally when I saw it.
But in one of the pictures, you can see the
hood of his patrol car and you can actually see
(43:22):
a reflection of the light in the hood of the
patrol car. So a lot of people ask us, well,
what do you think. Do you think you could be
faking it? No, because there's so many details in this picture.
You see a reflection in the hood of the patrol car.
You see the light on the side of the telephone pole.
There's a little shack out there that you can see
the light bouncing off. But the other part that's kind
of cool about this is after the four lights shoot
off in the distance, he says he gets a call
(43:45):
from another unit that is north the direction it went.
He's like, Hey, did you see these lights that just
shot out of your district and he's like, yeah, I
actually got a picture of him. So we as first responders,
as police officer, love that because now you're talking, not
only do you have eight police officers that witness it,
you have another police officer that can confirm that they
(44:08):
saw something flying off that this guy has pictures of.
So we always love that redundant witness. And when your
redundant witness is another first responder, it makes it even
better in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Absolutely, So I hate to put you on the spot,
but like I say, I record live. But did he
give you a permission to share those pictures?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:30):
I think he said to be good, Yeah we could.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
We can send you.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
All right, so you can look up the listener can
look into the show notes. We'll we'll pop those in there.
Thank you. All right, So Dave, we got about ten
minutes left, so let's yet to do the version of
what happened to you?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Okay. Things to keep in mind. Back in twenty seventeen,
I was working as a school resource officer at one
of the high schools here. So my career was interesting.
I started in patrol, like everybody went to detective. I
was a homicide detective, sex crimes detective, Narcotics and vice detective.
I ended my career in SROs. I was assigned to
(45:11):
this high school. It was April of twenty seventeen, and
I remember because it was the day of prom. At
this point in my life, I was I was pretty
much you could call me a skeptic. I didn't believe
in ghosts or UFOs or big for any of that stuff.
I was sure there was a rational explanation for everything
that we encountered. So it's a Saturday, the school is
(45:33):
not open that evening. I had to go to prom.
So I go to prom that evening. And when I
get to prom, which wasn't at the schools at a
different off site, the principal looks at me and goes, hey,
did you hear about the nine one one call at
the school today? And I'm looking at him and I'm like,
why would there be a nine one one called the school.
It's a Saturday, there's nobody there, and he kind of
just laughs and says, you should probably call dispatch, and
(45:55):
I was like, okay, So I called dispatch and I'm like, hey,
was there a nine one one call it school today?
Dispatcher starts laughing and says, hey, you need to talk
to this officer. And I'm like, okay, I'm like, why
won't anybody tell me what the heck happened? So I sent,
actually send him a text message and was like, hey, dude,
did you go to my school today? And his response was, dude,
your school is bank haunted the F word. I'm cleaning
(46:20):
it up for the story. And I'm like what, And
so I call him. I'm like, what the heck are
you talking about? And he proceeds to tell me this.
And now keep in mind percent skeptic at this point
in my life. At just before noon, they get a
nine to one one call that comes in from the
front desk of the school. Sounds like a woman and
(46:42):
it sounds like it says I'm scared. So the dispatcher
answers the phone that they do and they're like, nine
one one, what is your emergency? And it sounds like
a woman whispering that says. Dispatchers says, what was that
and it says, She's like, you're scared, and then it
says and then you hear the phone get dropped on
the countertop. So because they have a voice at the school.
(47:05):
They end up dispatching two officers to go check it.
During the time that they're waiting for the officers to
get there, there's what's called an open line because that
phone is still connected to nine oh one and still recording.
It's not just that a countertop. So while it's on
the countertop, the dispatcher is like trying to get somebody
to answer. So she said, hello, Hello, pick up the phone, Hello,
are you there. Fourteen minutes goes by, and the two
(47:27):
officers arrive at the school. So the school is obviously
locked because it's not open, But we have this thing
called a knoxbox, which a key that every patrol officer has,
and then there's a little lock box on the side
of the school that you can unlock it and it
has a master key for the building. So they unlock it,
they go inside. They walk into the front door of
the school and there's the reception that's where the phone
(47:50):
call came from. One of the officers goes over, picks
up the phone, and it's still an open line, so
he picks it up and has a conversation with a dispatcher. Hey,
how's it going, This is who I am. We're here
we're inside the school. This has to be the phone
that it's coming that the phone call came from, because
it's literally laying on the countertop and it's an open
line to you guys. So we're gonna check. So he
(48:10):
hangs up the phone and they do a search. Now,
this building at the school was what was called the
admin building. So the only things that we're in it
was were the principal's office, the assistant principal's office, the
counseling area, a bookstore in the nurse's office. So it's
not a huge building, so they search it pretty quickly.
They don't find anyone in there. The last place that
(48:32):
they search is the nurse's office. Now, the nurse's office
is off of the main hallway. You open the door,
and you can't really tell by looking at the door,
like which way the room goes. Is it go just
to one direction? Both directions? How does it do? So
whenever as a police officer, we come up to one
of these doors where we don't know really what the
makeup or the structure of the room is behind it,
you'll try to kind of enter almost like right next
(48:55):
to each other. So one will appeal to the right
one will appeal to the left, so you kind of
get in there as quick as you and kind of
establish where everything is. So they unlock the door and
they go in like that, kind of next each other,
and as they start to separate, something that neither of
them could see pushes past them, literally bumping their shoulders
and knocking them aside. So they spin around and run
(49:17):
out of the room looking and there's nothing there, and
so they're like, holy God. So they leave. So now
I'm listening to the story on the phone and I'm like, right, okay, sure,
I don't think much of it. I'm just gonna let
it go because I'm like, well, I don't believe in
ghosts or anything like that. Fine, whatever. So I go
(49:38):
to work on Monday after the rest of the weekend
and my sergeant comes up to me and he's like, hey,
that call at your school and I'm like yeah. He's like,
you need to investigate it. And I'm like why do
I need to investigate it? And he tells me because
it's misuse of nine to one one And I'm like, yeah,
but what are we gonna do. We don't have a suspect.
(49:59):
And he's like, well, well, you still need to investigate.
What I didn't know at the time was my sergeant
there at the time was a huge paranormal freak. He
loved the stuff. So really what he was doing is
he knew that I didn't believe in this stuff, and
he's like, I want this guy who is a homicide detective,
sex chrit all the training and investigation. I'm going to
(50:20):
make him investigate this because he doesn't believe that this
stuff is real. So he comes back and says, hey,
I don't know what it is. Hey, that's a great story,
is what he's doing behind the scenes. So because I'm
ordered investigator, I do this investigation. So I started digging
and I tracked down every possible lead. I can we
(50:40):
take the recording of the nine one one send it
for analysis. I pulled the security footage from the front
desk of the school. There's a camera that's right above
the front door that when you look at it, the
phone in question is almost dead center of the screen.
It's not detailed enough because of the distance for you
to see the phone itself, but it is way more
(51:02):
than detailed enough to see that there is nobody around
it when the phone call comes in. So they end up.
You see, when I pull the video, you can see
that at the time that that phone call comes in,
there's nobody staying there. I took the video all the
way back to six o'clock in the morning, watched it
from six o'clock in the morning till after the phone
call came in, which was just before noon, and only
(51:22):
one person enters that building, and that's a security guard
that enters way at the back, goes nowhere near the phone,
and that's at like seven and she's back out like
five minutes later. She just grabbing something from the supply closet.
So at the time that that phone call comes in,
nobody's there. And there's motion detector lights, so you can
see like, yeah, I mean it's daylights. You can see
that there's nobody in there anyways, but you can see
(51:43):
when the lights pop on if somebody moves in around.
At about ten o'clock in the morning, the lights just
over the desk popped on, but there was nobody there,
and so it's like that's kind of odd. And then
when the two officers come in, the ones on the
front of the desk pop on, and then he gets
to the desk and the ones over the desk pop on,
and when they do the search behind the desk, the
lights pop on. So basically, long story short is, they
(52:05):
do an entire search, they don't find anybody, and I
watch on video of them doing it. I see the
two of them go into the nurse's office. I see
the two of them run right out of the nurse's office,
but I don't see anything come out before him. We
ended up doing and I'm going to speed it up
because I know we're getting short because Marianne keeps hitting me.
I tracked down everything we ended up pulling. We pulled
(52:29):
the we had the phone people from the school come
out and check the phone box to see if there
was anybody that was tapped into the phone line. No.
We ran down every possible lead, could not figure out
where this phone call came from. Went into the nurse's
office to talk to the nurse because she that's where
this thing was that they ran into. She initially told
(52:50):
me nothing happened, but it was weird the way that
she told me. Eventually I ended up running into her
after my third attempt to try and get her to talk.
I knew something was nub. She ended up admitting that
she had been haunted her entire life by a ghost
that would follow her whenever she moved from house to house.
(53:10):
Now that she was at the school, she believes that
it was an entity from her house that came to
the school because three weeks before this happened, everything at
her house stopped. Now that I'm poking around now everything's
happening at the school yet or at her house again.
When I did a premise history of the school, we
ended up finding out that we started receiving nine one
one calls the same time that the ghosts or the
(53:32):
entity left her house and showed up at the school.
And I'm speeding things up because it's actually we're running
shorter time here. But the long story short is, we
had no idea what it was. But the important thing
was we had the phone call analyzed, and when they
did the analysis, the guy comes back. He's like, I
don't know what you have here, but it's not a
(53:53):
human voice. He's like, I can tell it to you,
and I can tell if it's a computer generated voice.
I don't know what this is. But he's like, more importantly,
you know, it's not saying I'm scared, And I'm like well,
what is it saying? And he says it actually says
I scare. So when the dispatcher says you're scared, it
says no and then slams the phone down. So the
reason that UAPPD formed is after I do this whole investigation,
(54:16):
I have audio evidence, I have video evidence, I can't
come up with a possible explanation of what this is.
I get called upstairs by a different supervisor who looks
at me, has the video, has the audio, plays it
all for me and says, you expect me to believe
this and accused me of lying, accuse me of making
it all up, trying to pull some sort of prank
on everybody, and basically, in as many words, said you're
(54:39):
not going to talk about this, you're not going to
write up a report, you're not even going to approach
the subject again, or you know what will happen, basically
indicating that I'll be fired. So that's basically what happened
to me, and that's why we ended up creating UAPPD.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Wow, I can't believe you you finished on time. That's yeah,
I know the quick version, but yeah, I remember that
story is just amazing. So but I want to thank
you both so much. Where can someone find you, know,
get a hold of you, Like, where can a police
officer if someone is watching right now, how can they
reach out to you?
Speaker 3 (55:16):
Well, they can contact us. Please go to our website
at uapdashpd dot com and at the score at the
bottom and it has contact us. Please it'll come to
our email and we'll contact you right away. Also, get
on our Facebook page UAP dash pd and just come
on there, send us a message and I'll get back
(55:37):
with you right away.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Excellent. Thank you both so much. It was really as usual.
It was absolutely great and I really appreciate it, all right, everyone,
so thank you. So we'll be back Thursday night with
the year in review with a few other people. Thanks
so much, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.
Hello, and welcome to the show of Martin Willis your host.
We have a couple of great guests coming up tonight.
We have a Dave Rich and mary Anne Rob. I
have met them several times at Marianne that's actually a
longtime friend and retired police officers that had had a
real interest in this topic of UFOs and have done
(00:36):
a lot of exploration. And Dave has actually had a
incident happen. We can touch on that I did last
time they were on, But anyway, I'm really excited to
have them on. Just a couple of things this coming
Thursday at a PM. I was hoping to have James Fox,
but it looks like he got pushed into the following week.
So I decided to do something I used to do
(00:58):
back with Lee Spiegel and other friends years ago, and
that is a year in review. So that's what we're
going to do on Thursday night starting at eight pm.
So far, I have Jack UFO. Jack is going to
be joining me as he did for the Age of
Disclosure Review. He's going to be on and a couple
of other people, so it should be a lot of fun.
(01:19):
So look for that this coming Thursday at eight pm.
This is a pre recorded show, and like I always say,
I'm too lazy to edit, So all my shows are
just like live shows, whether I am doing them live
or not. And I should be in the chat. I
am traveling Tuesday. That's why I'm doing it this way,
so hopefully I will be in the chat and see
(01:40):
you there. And without further ado, I'm bringing in my
two guests, and I just want to say one other thing.
So as you notice a lot of people here, notice
there are two different streams. One is for the phone,
which has really actually taken off for your smartphone or
tablet or whatever the way it's formatted. So when there
are two guests in the same it's a little tricky.
(02:01):
I have to do it a certain way, but anyway,
hopefully that'll work out this time. And you can always
tell which is the landscape regular stream on YouTube or
what is the phone, because they're gonna have little phone
icons next to the one that is for your smartphone.
So I do appreciate all of the people that watch
(02:21):
this show, also all the listeners. We're coming up on
the holiday, so I wish you all happy holidays, and
we're going to be giving away on Thursday, a couple
of T shirts and hats things like that to people
that participate live. So anyway, I'm looking forward to this show.
And oh one more thing, so the blog. I do
(02:43):
not have the title of the blog this week yet,
but it will be a new blog. You'll check out
check it out over at podcastsufo dot com. Those turn
into audio blogs are in our audio podcast feed. If
you are looking for an AD free experience, for only
two dollars a month, figure that less than a cup
of coffee, you can have an AD free experience and
(03:04):
you can get to Patreon and use the feed that
way if you are listening to the audio podcast. So,
without further Ado, welcome you too. Hey, as it goes,
it's good good, and so we have to squish together
to make this work. So it's been a pleasure meeting
(03:24):
you both. And of course Marian you we've been friends
for a long time and it's been really fun. It's
always great to get together. And anyway, I just have
to say, you know, I mean, we'll just start right out,
because I have had this conversation with people before, like,
for instance, I always bring them up Seth Shastak of SETI.
(03:49):
I said, well, don't you consider like police officers and
military and pilots, you know, better witnesses. And he said, no,
they're no more better than anyone else. That's exactly what
he said. And I want you to kind of argue
that point. Why are you, as a police officer a
better observer?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I would say that the reason why a police officer
or any first responder is a better observer is because
of the training that we receive in becoming a police officer.
They do a rather extensive psychological profile of you, looking
specifically for certain characteristics. And those characteristics that they really
are looking for are your ability to handle a high
stress situation and still remember your training or remember to
(04:33):
not kind of fly off the handle and kind of
rain everything in. Do you want to kind of control
that situation. So when you see something, whether it's a
robbery or a burglary, or a stolen vehicle, or a
light in the sky or a paranormal experience at a
house or something in the woods, both of those situations,
(04:53):
as a first responder, we're trained to go into those situations,
see something that is unexpected and then be able to
kind of gather that information and then impartial be the
best witness. They always say, be the best witness that
you can be situation, But we already have the advantage
of being basically grilled through the academy, through our training
(05:14):
classes to be thrown into these scenarios. They always do
this scenario based training, and so you're constantly getting thrown
into these scenarios where you really don't know what's going
to happen, and you like walk into a room and
then stuff happens, and it's designed to put you in
that scenario of Ooh, I wasn't expecting that. But I'm
still able to process this information, gathering this information because
(05:38):
at the end of each scenario, you're then put in
a room and be like, Okay, so tell us what happened,
what did you see? What did you not see? So
and I guess against what Seth was saying, I would
say anybody who has had that level of training is
going to just inherently be a more reliable witness, and
a witness is going to be able to control their
emotions a little bit better in those scenario. So I
(06:00):
would argue that.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Mary An, you ever youthink to add to that.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Not really, I mean, he just hit the nail on
the head. One thing is we go to a scene.
I've gone to accident scene, say, and I talked to
five different witnesses. Most of them again are just upset.
They are just rattled what they saw. And then you
(06:27):
ask them, Okay, what did you see? They might say
it was a blue car and a red car, and
this is what happened. This is what happened. Yet it
was say, a green car and a yellow car or
something like that. They're not going to be good witnesses.
They're not really paying attention like a police officers trained
(06:49):
to really pay attention to whatever situation is that they
come upon. Well.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And like a great example that we would give during
some of our talks, like which officer do you want
showing up at the scene when you have a car
accident you're bleeding out. Do you want the guy that
shows up and goes, Okay, you're gonna be fine, everything's good,
don't worry, we have help coming. I'm gonna put pressure
on the wound. We're gonna be good. We're gonna walk
through this together. Or do you want the guy that
(07:16):
comes up and goes, WHOA, that's a lot of blood, man,
What is going on? That's supposed to be attached. You don't.
Oh god, you're done, dude, what do you want showing up?
And as an officer, whether you're a firefighter or police officer,
any first responder, you're not gonna get it. The second guy,
he's not showing up. And that is all based off
(07:38):
of the training of you're going into a situation that
you don't know and may not have a lot of
control over, but you sare better look like you have
control because that's how you're going to save these lives
and how you're gonna win the day at the end.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And there are so many, so so many cases where
police officers were involved as witnesses. I mean you can
just historically and you know, I think I do believe
maybe it has been a blog of Charles Lear, but
if not, I'll remind him it would make a great
blog to do. Just oh yes he did, actually I
(08:13):
think no, no, that was about police officers becoming ufologists,
that's what he did. But anyway, I think it would
be a great, you know, story to write because there's
so many. I mean, I could just think of a
whole bunch of them right off the top of my head.
And one of the ones I always thought was really
amazing was the one who my good friend Lee Spiegel
(08:34):
I just mentioned down in North Carolina is in Lamberton.
That is such a great case. And do you know
about that case? I mean, when I bring up a
case like that, it probably should talk about it. I know.
Let me just tell you what I know and then
you can add to it. So Lee got a call
from Jay Allen Heinek and he said, hey, you know,
(08:58):
would you like to go investigate a UFO down in
North Carolina? And Li said, well, yeah, what's the details. Well,
this triangle UFO, it keeps showing up in Lumberton, I
think that's the name of it, and you know it's
being witnessed by police officers and everything else. And he says,
(09:19):
so you want me to go and investigate a flying dorrito?
That's what Lee said. His exact words were. So he
shows up and sure enough, this thing just they're all
standing together, this thing just shows right up, a triangle
UFO and it glides right over them and sends down
a beam of light between him and all these police officers.
(09:39):
I mean, it doesn't get better than that. And I
do believe there was another officer that was on the
road somewhere and actually pulled over with his flashlight and
shined it up at it. I don't know if you know.
Do you know any more details than that?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Oh, yeah, that's one of the stories. It takes I'm
not kidding. It probably takes about fifteen minutes to tell
the story. Yeah, there's about thirty officers, I want to say,
several counties, yeah, eleven different agencies. That it started in
Lumberton that one night, and I don't have the actual
(10:15):
date right now, but it started in Lumberton. Three officers
watch a thing go above a water tower and it
took off from there, and they tried to contact it,
you know, and just kind of drive up. It took
off to the next town. One of the officers radio
to that next town to talk to the officer. Hey,
(10:36):
get out there, there is this craft coming over your way.
There is no sound, you know, it has its lights.
There is absolutely no sound to this thing, and it's huge.
So again that officer went and he chased it to
another town and it just kept going from town to
town to town. Now what's interesting is that it would
(10:59):
disappear just as daylight was coming up, So say six
o'clock in the morning or five o'clock in the morning.
It would disappear as soon as about ten o'clock at night.
The next night, boom, it reappears and reappears in Lumberton again,
and that chases on. What's really cool is this dispatcher
(11:20):
that started this whole thing was what he was the
first one to get like ten or twenty phone calls
from citizens about this craft coming over. Well, he was
so on the ball that he's the one that called
the center of the UFO studies, which is doctor j
(11:41):
Ellen Heinek screw. He's the one that started that. And
then as all of these this craft was going over,
he was listening being in a I was a police
officer in a small town for a few years up
here in Arizona, and one of the things that we
had is we had scannered that we were able to
(12:04):
hear the Sheriff's office, the highway Patrol, other agencies, and
we all contacted each other through this inner agency radio,
you know, the scanner. And that's what was happening, is
that the dispatch was listening to all this stuff that
was going on. Then let's see, it's one officer would
(12:30):
catch it. You're talking about the officer that put the
light on two times. One it was a chief of
police at this one agency, White River, white Horse. It
was a city or a town, and he took a
light that's like a one of those airplane landing lights
that he had in his trunk and he set it up.
(12:53):
And that's what he did is he blinked his light
at this craft and the craft was blinking the light back.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
In it him.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
That dispatcher that was hearing all this a couple of
days later, it was his day off. So what did
he do. He wanted to go get into the action.
And you know what, you got to be careful what
you wish for, because that's exactly what happened. He saw
the craft. He actually again got out of his car.
The craft was, you know, just suspended right next to him,
(13:26):
and he went in put his lights, flashed his head
lights at it. It flashed back at him, well neither,
and then it took off. And what the officer did
was or what the dispatcher he tried to follow, but
this thing just took off. Now what's interesting about this
case is, like I said, it was seven counties that
(13:47):
reported this. There were times that this craft started going
toward South Carolina, but it didn't. It didn't reach the border.
This thing could have went anywhere, but for four nights
it stayed in the Seven Counties. The first time it
was seen by a water tower. The last time, I
believe it was seen near a water tower. So what
(14:10):
are they getting Are they getting their energy? Are they
getting water from this water tower to you know, to
make the craft go? Is at their fuel? My analogy
on all this, which I thought was kind of funny,
is this craft one night went like one one city,
(14:31):
then came back to the other. They came back to
the other and people were just chasing it. It reminds
me of a Friday night with a bunch of teenagers
in mom and Dad's car that were, you know, playing
with the police department and just running back and forth,
and they were just they were just chasing this craft.
But the end of the the end of this four
(14:54):
day adventure, there was an off duty police officer that
was going to church. It was a Sunday morning and
he was going to church with his family and he
saw this craft which looks like it landed in a field.
So they got agencies to come I want to say
it was just either in lumber Ten or just outside
(15:15):
of lumber Ten, and they actually found these burnt circular spots.
Was a triangle. I apologize I don't have the story
front of me, but I believe in the triangle that
they found in a field behind this barn, and the
(15:35):
owners of the ranch came back or the farm and
said they weren't there when we left earlier. So whatever,
it was landed for a short time. But then but
after the four days, I don't believe that that was
ever seen again. And it was great. I you know,
I got the the Project blue Book, or at least
(15:58):
the the the information not from the Center of UFO Studies.
I don't think it was Project blue Book, but I
got all of the files that Lease Fegel had in
all these police agencies. It is just one of the
coolest stories that we've told as a historical case.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I love it. And I never knew about the landing.
I never heard that before. And you know, I have
to say, ever since I started this show, it's been
one of the biggest puzzles that I always ask opinions of,
is why do these sightings happen in the very same
place and what you said, the thing could go anywhere
(16:43):
it wants to. But for a continued time, this seems
to happen a lot. And recently I brought up Chase
Klutsky's you know, siting in Tennessee where the big triangle
was going over you know, this celebrity can't say who
it is, but over his you know, cornfields over and
(17:03):
over again. Sure enough it showed up right in front
of her and she went there to completely disprove it.
And yeah, so it just it's such a puzzle. Then,
you know, why on earth are they contained to a
certain area over and over again, sometimes just for days,
and then they're gone. You never see them again. It's
(17:24):
it's it's just as much of a mystery as the
rest of it.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Oh, no doubt. I just yeah, it would be great
to you know, capture.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
One uh one of the as the some questions perhaps.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Or whatever, and terrogate these guys.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
And yeah, that's right under the light. Yeah so yeah.
And another thing is the interaction with the flashlights that
happened the algash incident, that happened with Father Gill incident
in Papa now gandhi uh one am I trying to say.
I'm trying to remember where he was located. The Father
(18:02):
Gil case. That's a great case where the flashlight he
called it a torch and the thing was reacting to
the torch. That also happened at a case where someone
pulled over on the side of the road and I'm
trying to remember. I think it might have been Australia,
but I'm not sure where. They flashed up at a
UFO and it blinked, you know, back at them the interactions.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, flashlights, Yeah, Clarendon Nova Scotia. It was a Royal
Canadian Mounted Police officer. Jim Blackwood.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Oh, yes, that's right, I know all about that. Yes,
he's now the he's now the raccoon Whisperer. If you
look them up on YouTube. He lives in a cabin
and he has all these raccoons come to him every night.
Check it out on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
But yeah, he talks about shining the flashlight at was
hovering over the water and then that's right, which takes off.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
But talking about that and being a raccoon whisper now
because of that's an incident that he had and that
the department basically forced him to talk to the press
that just totally ruined him, ruined his career and probably
psychologically just totally screwed him up.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, we can't. We can't leave that without talking about
Lonnie's a moura very similar thing. He would have never
if he could have gone back. He probably wishes he
never you know, he's no longer with us, but he
probably wished he never said anything. He actually said that.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
No, yes, Blackwood said it as well. He literally was
quoted as saying it was the worst mistake I ever did,
was talking about it.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
But I think more was very important. I mean, think
of you know, that's when Jay Allen Heinech took his
turning point between the skepticism to realizing there was really
something to this with such a credible witness.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So yeah, another one. So if you're new to the
whole UFO thing, if you check out the Sikora incident,
s O c r O incident, you will see all
that information. Hopefully I spelled it right, But anyway, we
can put some of these things in the show notes,
so people can you know, click on a link and
(20:15):
actually see these different things. But yeah, I mean I
love police officer cases and I know you have done
so many investigations on this, and you looked into it historically.
So either one of you want to comment on what
do you think some of the better unknown ones are.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Well, well, yeah, if we're talking historical minds, Val.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Johnson, Yes, the cruiser still exists, right, I mean the
cruiser is somewhere.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
You know. It's interesting that was it. There was somebody
that I just oh, I don't want to say his names.
I don't know if he would mind that or not,
but he knows. Val Johnson now still around. I would
love to meet them. And that car is still at
the museum there in Minnesota, his car that this incident happened.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
This is a fascinating story.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah, I don't know if you want to kind of
go into it a little.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Bit, Yeah, yeah, why don't we. Here's the here's pulling
up right now because my great blogger Charles lear jed
a story on this particular case. And look there he
is right there. This will again we'll be in the
show notes. But go right ahead, go right into it.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I love this, okay, Well, nineteen seventy nine, that was
on patrol. It was late at night in I believe
it was worn Minnesota and he was driving up a
highway and the highway came to a t intersection just
up the road, and he looked off to his left
and he noticed this large white tight ball that's just
(21:52):
hovering above the roadway. So he's thinking plane crash, car crash.
He has no idea what he has, So I made
the turn. He starts going down toward this light. All
of a sudden, this light goes crashes through his windshield,
hits him in the chest, and he said it felt
like a two hundred pound pillow hitting his chest. Well,
(22:15):
it knocked him out and his car kind of just
kind of drifted to the side, came to a stop
a few hundred yards from you know where he got hit.
Got on the radio and says, I don't know what
it was. I don't have no idea, but this thing
came through my windshield. Ams shows up, other officers show up.
(22:40):
They take val to the hospital. Now, doctor says they
examined his eyes. They says both eyes had burns like
they were arc welder burns on both eyes. His both
his jaw and his teeth were cracked at the gumlet line.
(23:01):
They were all raptured and they could figure out what
in the world this thing was. So they they take
the car and they have the GM guys come out
to inspect the car. They also have somebody from like
(23:21):
oh gosh, General Dynamics or whatever they had back there.
There was another organization that came out and they checked
his car out and the results, the official result was
it was something that's it just something hit his car.
Nobody could actually say what exactly hit his car. They
(23:46):
had no idea. So, and what was interesting if you
look at the picture of the car, whatever this thing
was that hit his car, it went up over the
front bumper, It broke the headlight on the driver's side,
It went up, it hit the driver's side window, it
(24:08):
hit the overhead emergency lights of his patrol car on
the driver's side, broke an antenna and went straight over. Now,
if it was a bird, if it was a some
kind of hard object, whether it was a rock, when
it hits that the front bumper, it's gonna go different ways.
(24:30):
It's gonna just ping off and it's gonna hit the
driver's side, or it's it's it's going to miss the
rest of the car. But like the picture you have
up there right there, is it actually went right up
and over just the driver's side, which was really unique.
So I now this one was Project blue Book. I
(24:53):
did look at all of the reports that came in
from doctor j Allen Heinek and everybody, everyone, every single person,
Jailen Heineck and everybody said, this guy is truthful. What
he is saying is truthful. Even his supervisor, his chief
of police, was on this guy's side. But I do
(25:17):
believe that he was another one that I think it
just kind of ended his career on this because I
think it was just there was a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
But basically I do believe that was I'm sorry, I
hate to correct you, but that was Kufo's because this
happened in nineteen seventy nine, right, okay, oh, not Project
Glue Book.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Then this was another one that I just found with
Heine's probably the investigation that he's done. Again, I'm sorry
about that. Probably not black Project blue Book. But I've
seen some of reports from doctor Jalen Heineck on this
and it's like, wow, this this was I think this
was an amazing story.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Absolutely. Yeah. So one of the better ones.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, and one of the things that I think a
lot of people forget about is kind of going off
of what when we first started the show talking about
Seth's comment about how police officers aren't any different than
any other witness. There is one aspect where first responders
aren't any different than any other witness, and that's the
fallout after the fact, because yeah, we're trained to go
(26:31):
into a situation and take control of the situation. But then,
like we're talking here, what happened to Jim blackwotot what
happened to Lanie Zamar, what happened to Vale Johnson and
all these other first responders that sees them when they
come forward and talk, the trauma that they see from
seeing this thing, the fallout that they have that they
have to face in some cases is even amplified because
(26:53):
of the career that they have. And that's kind of
a lot of what brought Marian and I together with
u APPD was to provide that safe environment. But I
think a lot of people forget about that. Like Lanie's
a more story, it's an amazing story, but very few
people know about what happened to Lannie after that's right,
And like Jim Blackwood's story, amazing story. Bil Johnson an
(27:16):
amazing story. Nobody ever asked, hey, what happened to this guy?
Like a week, a month, a year after the sighting?
And I think a lot of people kind of forget
about that. Part is that these are still people just
like every other witness, and in some cases, like I said,
the fallout is even more pronounced because of their chosen
career and the training that they have that allowed them
(27:37):
to enter into that situation and be such amazing witnesses.
Now there's a ramification.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I look at a situation like what Ryan Graves has
put together for pilots, you know that well they can
actually report without worrying about it. Now, have you ever
considered any type of organization or is this what are
you hope to have? This where people that are officers,
whether they're retired or active, can actually come to you
(28:06):
and say, look, this happened. I'd like to talk about it,
you know, in a way that.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Is exactly what we're trying to do with this.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
We started this because of Dave's incident that he had
back in twenty seventeen where he was ridiculed. He was
basically told by a supervisor that he was lying, he
needs to shut up or he'll lose his career. And
we know that there are so many officers out there
(28:35):
that this has happened to. And that's again why we
started now. We had to wait until he retired because
if we started this beforehand, good possibility he might have fired.
So we waited until everything was safe and he was
able to retire, and then we started an organization. Now
(28:57):
he had to suffer for for six years by keeping
it inside. It's stressed. I mean I've known this guy
for over twenty five years and I could see the
stress on him. I know it stressed out his family
and stressed out his career when he was working. So
(29:18):
we don't want officers to wait till they retired to
come forward and talk to us like unfortunately Dave had
to do. That's why we started UAPPD is that this
is a what I call a safe zone that they
can come to us now, right now and share their
experience with us. Get it off your chest, get that
(29:40):
stress out, whether you know so, and it's it's safe
to where even if you're working, you're on duty, you
won't be identified.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, we're not going to say who you are.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Yeah, we just want you to know that you are
not crazy. Stuff like this does happen, and we are
here to help. We are here to listen to you
and to make you understand that you know what you
saw is you saw it. I mean, there's no two
ways about it. Can we explain it? No, but you
(30:12):
did see something, and no, you don't keep it inside.
We don't want you.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
To do that. And that's one of the things that
we kind of push is like, it's not just UFO's
settings site. My incident had nothing to do with the
UFOs is paranormal, but we have stories. Since we've started
this thing about two and a half years ago, we've
now gathered somewhere close to about ninety original stories, so
stories that most people have never heard of, in everything
(30:39):
from UFO to cryptids to paranormal encounters, demonic encounters. We
as an organization don't care what you saw because our
focus is the first responder. We want to hear your
story because the first step towards recovery or first step
towards healing is to find somebody that's safe, that you
can talk, who's not going to judge you, who's not
(31:01):
going to criticize you, and you can feel safe and
comfortable telling knowing that we're not going to run back
to your agency and be like, oh, and just so
you know, so and so came up to us on
Saturday and told us that they saw bigfoot. We're not
going to say any of that stuff. And they can't
make us say that. There's no leverage and agency can't
come out and say, well, you need to tell us
what this guy talking about. No, we don't. They have
(31:24):
no leeway or no leverage to try and force us
to talk about anything. But what we want to do
is we want to make sure that the officers, the firefighters, whoever,
game wargans, park rangers corrections, they know that they can
come to us and talk. We will help them, and
in some cases we've even helped them find other specialists
(31:45):
in the field that can help them as far as
therapists or counselors or people that have had similar incidents
that can help them negotiate it. Because again, at the
end of the day, yeah, we would love to come
up with all the answers and what these things are,
and we love doing investigations into things when we get
these stories, but at the end of the day, our
(32:05):
main focus is to help first responders recover from whatever
it was that they've encountered, and that first step is
to just come forward, be able to talk in a
safe environment where you're not going to be judging, and
you're not going to be looked at this crazy. In fact,
we're going to have you walk out of there realizing
that you're not crazy. And there's a lot of stuff
in this world that nobody really understands exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I say that I wonder about reality sometimes, you know,
in general. But let's see, I would like for you
to tell you a story. I know you did last
time you were on, but I'd still like you to
repeat it if you would. But before you do that,
is there any is there any outstanding UFO cases that
(32:48):
you have been told that you could tell us now
that would not you know, you know, endanger anyone's privacy.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Probably well Australia. I vote to tell them about the
Australia case. We got a story. Gosh, it's probably only
been like maybe three months ago that this story came in.
So since we've started, we've been on thanks to the
people like you, we have been on a number of
different podcasts and so our organization is finally starting to
(33:18):
reach some pretty far areas. We get called by a
police constole. She's now a retired police constable from Australia,
from the the Golden Coaster, like north of Sydney, Australia.
And she basically tells us that like for most of
her life that she can remember, she has had these
(33:40):
weird encounters with extraterrestrial craft and entities. We'll say, so
it really like she gave us three specific incidents that
happened in her life, one of which she actually sent
us video that she took with her cell phone. That
part is really cool because she's in her lip room working.
(34:02):
She's an artist now now that she's retired from police work.
She does artwork, and she's in her living room kind
of just drawing and stuff. There's this big window. She
looks out the window and she sees this white object
very similar to what they talk about when they say
the tic tac. She's like, it's white, it had no
wings on it, and it's just kind of humming along
in the sky. So she runs outside, pulls out her
(34:24):
cellphone and she's able to get a little maybe six
second clip of it. But the thing that was interesting
is you look at this and you can clearly see
that there's no wings on it, and it's cruising along
and then all of a sudden, it's almost at first
it has to come into focus, but once it's in focus,
it goes along and then all of a sudden it
kind of flickers and then vanishes like and when I
(34:45):
say it vanishes, like you're watching it. It's there, and
then it flickers and it's gone, like you don't see
it jet off in a direction, it just is gone.
And so she saw that from her backyard. But then
she told us that she's had like when she was
in her so ten or twelve, her dad and mom
and siblings were in a boat and there was another
(35:07):
boat next to them that had a neighbor in it
that they were fishing, and some craft just kind of
came down and hovered over the water, like right in
front of them. So they're all like looking at this
craft like no idea what it is. It's just hovering
over the water and then it zips off. Very short encounter.
But because of these encounters, she started remembering like this
(35:28):
recurring dream and a lot of people who have had
either abductions or encounters like that will remember these dreams.
From previously, and so she has this recurring dream and
in the dream, it's when she was five years old,
and she remembers waking up in this room and she
describes this room as being very clinical, like steel, table
(35:52):
like very like a white light over them, and she
remembers that there were four individuals in the room standing
around the table, and she sees the two that I believe,
she said, around like her left side. She knows that
there's two more on the right side, but she doesn't
remember what they looked like, but she describes them that
like one was male, one was female, and the female
(36:15):
is trying to communicate with her telepathically, like she doesn't
see her lips moving, but she can hear them talking,
and she did not for some reason. She's like, I
did not like the woman. I didn't like her, and
she the woman was very mad about that, was angry
that she didn't like her, but she felt okay about
the guy. And so she described the two entities as
(36:38):
looking very Nordic. They had blonde hair, blue eyes, very
very she described it being an artist, she said, she
described it as being they were very symmetrical, and she's like,
when something is very symmetrical. It looks very esthetically pleasing.
So she said they were very attractive, the woman and
the man, and she's like, and they were very She's
(37:00):
she described as being very symmetrical, and she actually gave
us a drawing of what the two look like. But
she remembered like specific things about Like she says she
remembers being embarrassed because she wasn't wearing any clothes on
the table, and she remembered, at five years old, she's like,
this isn't right. I shouldn't be here without clothes on
with these people. I don't know who these people are,
(37:20):
And she remembers that she could overhear the conversation between
the two entities that again, like, I said that the
female entity was very angry that she didn't like her,
but the guy was like, well, it's no big deal,
she likes me sort of thing. And then that's pretty
much where the dream ends. But you look at a
situation like that and it's like, here we have somebody
(37:43):
who's a training police constable who's now retired, and she
has given us three incidents that has happened, one in
which she literally gave us a video that happened as
an adult while she's looking out her back window, one
while she was in her adolescence, and one when she
was And so to me, it's like a fascinating like
(38:04):
kind of like how long has she been encountering these things?
How long have they? Are they all related? All three
of these visits of her. Could they all be the
same individuals or same entities coming back to visit her
three times? Are they separate? Why are they coming? Like?
It opens up a ton of questions about it, But
(38:26):
the one thing that we can't escape is here you
have somebody who is trained to handle these emotional situations
and not be upset and be a good witness, and
she's giving us literal physical evidence of videos of stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Well that is that's a really amazing story. And you
often hear about people thinking that they're having a dream,
and I mean, that's one of the most common things
you hear about when people are having the so called experiences. So,
did she give you permission to share that clip?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Not really yet, We're kind of still talking with her
about it. And again our organization, we will only share
what the person is willing to let us share. At
that I understand, but that doesn't mean at some point
down the road is she sees more of what we're
doing and she becomes a little bit more comfortable with
it that she might be willing to because we have
(39:22):
had some people that have been like, oh no, I
don't want anything, and then after a while they're like, yeah, okay,
I'm okay if you use my name in the stage
presentation or you use the video and like a stage
presentation or something like that. So we have like different
levels of what they'll let us do. Sure, and when
they get more comfortable with us and get more and
understand that, we are adamant that we are only going
(39:44):
to go as far as they let us go. And
that's how we gain our credibility. Because if ifoy said, hey,
I don't want you doing that, then we do it anyways,
then we're never going to get anybody to trust us.
So we definitely let them dictate how far we can go.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Sure, I understand in that. Thank you. So we have
about fifteen minutes left now, Marianne, if you don't mind
telling your story, and then we'd like to go back
to you Dave, to tell us you know your your situation,
what happened.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
To you you Unfortunately, I don't have a story.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Oh okay, I thought no. I thought you said you
had when I asked if there was a story.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
That someone Okay, I was gonna say that.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
That's what I meant. I didn't mean your own story.
I meant I was.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Gonna say, you know, it's kind of funny that Dave has.
You know, that's why we started because of Dave. And
I have never seen anything. I've never felt no. Yeah,
but you know, but definitely I know people have had.
Case happened on up in Indian Reservation. And we had
an officer who was working night shift and as he
(40:48):
was out in this one area, all of a sudden,
he saw four different lights that were just flying in
the sky and they were kind of following each other.
They were kind of going away from each other, but
they were just like they were playing tag with each other,
says where he said it, And they were just all busy.
All of a sudden, one of those lights shut down
(41:10):
to ground level about maybe a half mile or so
in front of him, and all of a sudden, this
it was a blue light, bright blue light that came
and totally lit up the area. Well, he got out
of his patrol car, and he's like, you know, he
(41:30):
was fumbling around. He didn't know what to do, and
he's like he couldn't believe this was happening right in
front of him. So he wasn't able to put on
his body came right away, but he was smart enough
to grab his phone and he started taking pictures of
this thing that was on the ground, covering above the
ground and making that blue light. As he was taking
(41:51):
the pictures, you could see a fire hydrant, you could
see a I think it was a telephone pole, and
all that's illuminated from whatever this light was coming from.
Now he looked up and three of those other little crafts,
of those little lights that were flying around. They were
(42:14):
kind of hovering in the area. They never came down,
but they were just kind of hovering and just going
flying around right in that area where that fourth one
came down and hovered. I'd say, I think he said,
maybe twenty seconds, thirty seconds or so. All of a sudden,
that blue light went off and it shot back up
(42:38):
into the sky. The four of them pretty much got
together and that just shot off and the sky were gone.
And he had no idea what in the world this was.
And again he met with us, he gave us the
photos that he took, but he was bewildered on he
(43:00):
just saw.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
And there's a couple other things that are really interesting
about the story. So, first of one, as he told
us that it's a blue light, but in the picture
it looks green on his cell phone. He's like, I
don't know why, but it looks green on the cell phone.
But it definitely was blue naturally when I saw it.
But in one of the pictures, you can see the
hood of his patrol car and you can actually see
(43:22):
a reflection of the light in the hood of the
patrol car. So a lot of people ask us, well,
what do you think. Do you think you could be
faking it? No, because there's so many details in this picture.
You see a reflection in the hood of the patrol car.
You see the light on the side of the telephone pole.
There's a little shack out there that you can see
the light bouncing off. But the other part that's kind
of cool about this is after the four lights shoot
off in the distance, he says he gets a call
(43:45):
from another unit that is north the direction it went.
He's like, Hey, did you see these lights that just
shot out of your district and he's like, yeah, I
actually got a picture of him. So we as first responders,
as police officer, love that because now you're talking, not
only do you have eight police officers that witness it,
you have another police officer that can confirm that they
(44:08):
saw something flying off that this guy has pictures of.
So we always love that redundant witness. And when your
redundant witness is another first responder, it makes it even
better in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Absolutely, So I hate to put you on the spot,
but like I say, I record live. But did he
give you a permission to share those pictures?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:30):
I think he said to be good, Yeah we could.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
We can send you.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
All right, so you can look up the listener can
look into the show notes. We'll we'll pop those in there.
Thank you. All right, So Dave, we got about ten
minutes left, so let's yet to do the version of
what happened to you?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Okay. Things to keep in mind. Back in twenty seventeen,
I was working as a school resource officer at one
of the high schools here. So my career was interesting.
I started in patrol, like everybody went to detective. I
was a homicide detective, sex crimes detective, Narcotics and vice detective.
I ended my career in SROs. I was assigned to
(45:11):
this high school. It was April of twenty seventeen, and
I remember because it was the day of prom. At
this point in my life, I was I was pretty
much you could call me a skeptic. I didn't believe
in ghosts or UFOs or big for any of that stuff.
I was sure there was a rational explanation for everything
that we encountered. So it's a Saturday, the school is
(45:33):
not open that evening. I had to go to prom.
So I go to prom that evening. And when I
get to prom, which wasn't at the schools at a
different off site, the principal looks at me and goes, hey,
did you hear about the nine one one call at
the school today? And I'm looking at him and I'm like,
why would there be a nine one one called the school.
It's a Saturday, there's nobody there, and he kind of
just laughs and says, you should probably call dispatch, and
(45:55):
I was like, okay, So I called dispatch and I'm like, hey,
was there a nine one one call it school today?
Dispatcher starts laughing and says, hey, you need to talk
to this officer. And I'm like, okay, I'm like, why
won't anybody tell me what the heck happened? So I sent,
actually send him a text message and was like, hey, dude,
did you go to my school today? And his response was, dude,
your school is bank haunted the F word. I'm cleaning
(46:20):
it up for the story. And I'm like what, And
so I call him. I'm like, what the heck are
you talking about? And he proceeds to tell me this.
And now keep in mind percent skeptic at this point
in my life. At just before noon, they get a
nine to one one call that comes in from the
front desk of the school. Sounds like a woman and
(46:42):
it sounds like it says I'm scared. So the dispatcher
answers the phone that they do and they're like, nine
one one, what is your emergency? And it sounds like
a woman whispering that says. Dispatchers says, what was that
and it says, She's like, you're scared, and then it
says and then you hear the phone get dropped on
the countertop. So because they have a voice at the school.
(47:05):
They end up dispatching two officers to go check it.
During the time that they're waiting for the officers to
get there, there's what's called an open line because that
phone is still connected to nine oh one and still recording.
It's not just that a countertop. So while it's on
the countertop, the dispatcher is like trying to get somebody
to answer. So she said, hello, Hello, pick up the phone, Hello,
are you there. Fourteen minutes goes by, and the two
(47:27):
officers arrive at the school. So the school is obviously
locked because it's not open, But we have this thing
called a knoxbox, which a key that every patrol officer has,
and then there's a little lock box on the side
of the school that you can unlock it and it
has a master key for the building. So they unlock it,
they go inside. They walk into the front door of
the school and there's the reception that's where the phone
(47:50):
call came from. One of the officers goes over, picks
up the phone, and it's still an open line, so
he picks it up and has a conversation with a dispatcher. Hey,
how's it going, This is who I am. We're here
we're inside the school. This has to be the phone
that it's coming that the phone call came from, because
it's literally laying on the countertop and it's an open
line to you guys. So we're gonna check. So he
(48:10):
hangs up the phone and they do a search. Now,
this building at the school was what was called the
admin building. So the only things that we're in it
was were the principal's office, the assistant principal's office, the
counseling area, a bookstore in the nurse's office. So it's
not a huge building, so they search it pretty quickly.
They don't find anyone in there. The last place that
(48:32):
they search is the nurse's office. Now, the nurse's office
is off of the main hallway. You open the door,
and you can't really tell by looking at the door,
like which way the room goes. Is it go just
to one direction? Both directions? How does it do? So
whenever as a police officer, we come up to one
of these doors where we don't know really what the
makeup or the structure of the room is behind it,
you'll try to kind of enter almost like right next
(48:55):
to each other. So one will appeal to the right
one will appeal to the left, so you kind of
get in there as quick as you and kind of
establish where everything is. So they unlock the door and
they go in like that, kind of next each other,
and as they start to separate, something that neither of
them could see pushes past them, literally bumping their shoulders
and knocking them aside. So they spin around and run
(49:17):
out of the room looking and there's nothing there, and
so they're like, holy God. So they leave. So now
I'm listening to the story on the phone and I'm like, right, okay, sure,
I don't think much of it. I'm just gonna let
it go because I'm like, well, I don't believe in
ghosts or anything like that. Fine, whatever. So I go
(49:38):
to work on Monday after the rest of the weekend
and my sergeant comes up to me and he's like, hey,
that call at your school and I'm like yeah. He's like,
you need to investigate it. And I'm like why do
I need to investigate it? And he tells me because
it's misuse of nine to one one And I'm like, yeah,
but what are we gonna do. We don't have a suspect.
(49:59):
And he's like, well, well, you still need to investigate.
What I didn't know at the time was my sergeant
there at the time was a huge paranormal freak. He
loved the stuff. So really what he was doing is
he knew that I didn't believe in this stuff, and
he's like, I want this guy who is a homicide detective,
sex chrit all the training and investigation. I'm going to
(50:20):
make him investigate this because he doesn't believe that this
stuff is real. So he comes back and says, hey,
I don't know what it is. Hey, that's a great story,
is what he's doing behind the scenes. So because I'm
ordered investigator, I do this investigation. So I started digging
and I tracked down every possible lead. I can we
(50:40):
take the recording of the nine one one send it
for analysis. I pulled the security footage from the front
desk of the school. There's a camera that's right above
the front door that when you look at it, the
phone in question is almost dead center of the screen.
It's not detailed enough because of the distance for you
to see the phone itself, but it is way more
(51:02):
than detailed enough to see that there is nobody around
it when the phone call comes in. So they end up.
You see, when I pull the video, you can see
that at the time that that phone call comes in,
there's nobody staying there. I took the video all the
way back to six o'clock in the morning, watched it
from six o'clock in the morning till after the phone
call came in, which was just before noon, and only
(51:22):
one person enters that building, and that's a security guard
that enters way at the back, goes nowhere near the phone,
and that's at like seven and she's back out like
five minutes later. She just grabbing something from the supply closet.
So at the time that that phone call comes in,
nobody's there. And there's motion detector lights, so you can
see like, yeah, I mean it's daylights. You can see
that there's nobody in there anyways, but you can see
(51:43):
when the lights pop on if somebody moves in around.
At about ten o'clock in the morning, the lights just
over the desk popped on, but there was nobody there,
and so it's like that's kind of odd. And then
when the two officers come in, the ones on the
front of the desk pop on, and then he gets
to the desk and the ones over the desk pop on,
and when they do the search behind the desk, the
lights pop on. So basically, long story short is, they
(52:05):
do an entire search, they don't find anybody, and I
watch on video of them doing it. I see the
two of them go into the nurse's office. I see
the two of them run right out of the nurse's office,
but I don't see anything come out before him. We
ended up doing and I'm going to speed it up
because I know we're getting short because Marianne keeps hitting me.
I tracked down everything we ended up pulling. We pulled
(52:29):
the we had the phone people from the school come
out and check the phone box to see if there
was anybody that was tapped into the phone line. No.
We ran down every possible lead, could not figure out
where this phone call came from. Went into the nurse's
office to talk to the nurse because she that's where
this thing was that they ran into. She initially told
(52:50):
me nothing happened, but it was weird the way that
she told me. Eventually I ended up running into her
after my third attempt to try and get her to talk.
I knew something was nub. She ended up admitting that
she had been haunted her entire life by a ghost
that would follow her whenever she moved from house to house.
(53:10):
Now that she was at the school, she believes that
it was an entity from her house that came to
the school because three weeks before this happened, everything at
her house stopped. Now that I'm poking around now everything's
happening at the school yet or at her house again.
When I did a premise history of the school, we
ended up finding out that we started receiving nine one
one calls the same time that the ghosts or the
(53:32):
entity left her house and showed up at the school.
And I'm speeding things up because it's actually we're running
shorter time here. But the long story short is, we
had no idea what it was. But the important thing
was we had the phone call analyzed, and when they
did the analysis, the guy comes back. He's like, I
don't know what you have here, but it's not a
(53:53):
human voice. He's like, I can tell it to you,
and I can tell if it's a computer generated voice.
I don't know what this is. But he's like, more importantly,
you know, it's not saying I'm scared, And I'm like well,
what is it saying? And he says it actually says
I scare. So when the dispatcher says you're scared, it
says no and then slams the phone down. So the
reason that UAPPD formed is after I do this whole investigation,
(54:16):
I have audio evidence, I have video evidence, I can't
come up with a possible explanation of what this is.
I get called upstairs by a different supervisor who looks
at me, has the video, has the audio, plays it
all for me and says, you expect me to believe
this and accused me of lying, accuse me of making
it all up, trying to pull some sort of prank
on everybody, and basically, in as many words, said you're
(54:39):
not going to talk about this, you're not going to
write up a report, you're not even going to approach
the subject again, or you know what will happen, basically
indicating that I'll be fired. So that's basically what happened
to me, and that's why we ended up creating UAPPD.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Wow, I can't believe you you finished on time. That's yeah,
I know the quick version, but yeah, I remember that
story is just amazing. So but I want to thank
you both so much. Where can someone find you, know,
get a hold of you, Like, where can a police
officer if someone is watching right now, how can they
reach out to you?
Speaker 3 (55:16):
Well, they can contact us. Please go to our website
at uapdashpd dot com and at the score at the
bottom and it has contact us. Please it'll come to
our email and we'll contact you right away. Also, get
on our Facebook page UAP dash pd and just come
on there, send us a message and I'll get back
(55:37):
with you right away.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Excellent. Thank you both so much. It was really as usual.
It was absolutely great and I really appreciate it, all right, everyone,
so thank you. So we'll be back Thursday night with
the year in review with a few other people. Thanks
so much, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.
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