September 8, 2025 • 47 mins
Join Cameron and Katie K on "The DINKside," where they explore the joys and challenges of living a child-free life. In this episode, they dive into societal expectations, the freedom of choice, and the financial and personal benefits of being a DINK (Double Income, No Kids) couple. With humor and honesty, they share their top reasons for choosing this lifestyle and discuss the misconceptions they face. Whether you're child-free by choice or curious about the lifestyle, this podcast offers a refreshing perspective on living life on your own terms.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
There's a new term buzzing on the Internet, Dick.
Dual income? No, kid, you probably have an
opinion on these people or an opinion on people who have an
opinion on these people. America's birth rate has hit its
lowest point in more than a century.
Some are blaming it on infertility.
Others say the state of the world is causing couples to
think twice about having children.
(00:21):
Childless marriages could be a good thing if they were a result
of God's sovereign providential work.
Oh my God, can't even hear you. They like avocado toast and
brunches out and going to plays and having sweet vacations.
Yeah, you're probably super selfish.
Kids are better than brunch. Wrong.
And then there's another group of young couples that want the
(00:43):
lifestyle of childless households and the lifestyle it
brings with it. Welcome to The DINK Side, the
podcast about life, laughs and living child free.
We're a double income, no kids couple navigating the UPS, downs
and hilarious in betweens of choosing a different path in the
world that won't stop asking. So when are you having kids?
(01:10):
I love that because it's so true.
I'm Cameron. That is my wife KDK.
Hi. So there might be some friends
of ours out there who are listening to this podcast.
And for some of you, it is a reminder of who we are and what
we do. And to some of you, it is an
introduction to us. But this is the DINK side.
(01:30):
It's a new podcast where we're going to step through our life
as a DINK couple. And DINK, of course, stands for,
as you said, babe, double income, no kids.
Or some people say dual income, no kids.
Whatever double duel, it means more money.
It means more money and in our opinion, more laughter and and
(01:51):
fun and enjoyable life. More freedom, but we have
friends that podcast listeners and friends in real life, IRL,
if you will, that have children or having children or are
pregnant or want to get pregnant.
And we send you love. And we're not, you know, popular
(02:12):
opinion might be that we're justgonna shit on children and
parents during this podcast. And you'd be wrong.
Because I would like. And to those people, I would say
I invite you to listen to this whole episode.
And our last segment is in fact positive.
What? I know, I know, I know what I
(02:36):
know. It's new for us.
We used to. We used to finish off the pod
with rage, and that's not to saythat there won't be plenty of
rage, but there's. Going to be some rage in there.
We're going to leave you. Rage in there.
We're going to leave you with a twinkle in your eye at the end
of the UPS, OK? Amen, Amen.
A twinkle in the eye. That's yeah, 'cause there's
(02:58):
twinkles in our eyes. So I, I, I guess I think it's
important to like tell people very quickly about how we'd
mutually decided to not have children because this is
something that I'm asked about on a weirdly like a very common,
it's very often that people ask me why, who was the one that
(03:22):
decided to not have kids? Yeah.
Is your wife aware? Do people think that I pressured
you into this decision? I think that probably 95% of
people assume that you pressuredme into this decision.
Which is weird because I'm the woman and most people when they
(03:45):
ask me, they're like, oh, when are you having kids?
Not are you choosing to have children.
They just say, oh, when are you like popping out babies?
And I'm like, oh, oh, first of all, get out of my womb.
Remove yourself from inside of me.
Thank you for that assumption. And then also it's usually the
(04:06):
woman that's quote UN quote maternal and born to bear
children and not as often the man that's like born to be a
dad. Right.
So I I find that surprising, butwhatever.
No, I think it's, to be honest, I think it's 95% of people who
know us personally think that you pressured me into it.
(04:28):
But people who don't, people whodon't know us, assume that I
pressured you into it. Because I also think that
there's, like you said, there's people who just assume that the
man doesn't want the kids and whatever.
Point being, I think it's hilarious that people assume
that we don't talk to one another about it.
And that it wasn't very mutual. And to be clear, the origin
(04:52):
story of this decision was on our second date.
I brought it up because I moved to LA from Arkansas.
You moved from Saint Louis. In the Midwest, it is common for
people to be 22 popping out their second or third child.
So I was like, you know, what ifthis Saint Louis guy that I like
(05:13):
that I'm going on dates with wants to settle down and have
kids, I should probably tell himbefore we like each other too
much that I'm not into that. So I think on our second date, I
was like, hey, whoa, sorry if this is a lot, but just so you
know, I don't want to have kids.And you were like.
(05:35):
Nah, me neither. I think you said, my memory of
it is that you said, oh, thank God.
Yeah, it was something along those lines.
And I feel like even in even in that moment when we talked about
it, like there was still part ofme that was like, it's going to
(05:55):
take a while for people to understand that this is a
genuine decision. Because also, I think people
think that we're in that stage that early on in dating that I'm
just trying to please you or you're just trying to please me,
but will actually reveal our true feelings a year after or
something. But no, that's not the case.
I would also venture to say let me know if this is too bold,
(06:18):
that every single day of our relationship after date #2 we
have wanted kids less than when we talked about it. 100%, 100%.
It hasn't got, it's not that we've ever faltered in the
decision, it's that we've cemented deeper into the
decision. Every breath that I take,
basically, Yeah. Yeah.
(06:40):
And it's OK that we're like thisbecause there's a lot of times
when I'm like, have you seen me,met me or talked to me?
Do you think I should create life?
I listen, I have said it many times.
I think that you would be a great mom.
You would be an incredible mom. Do do I want you to be a mom?
(07:00):
God, no. Hell no.
It's better for the world if you're not.
I can't tell if I'm flattered bythat or irritated, so we'll just
let it ride as both, but. Yeah, we'll let it be there.
We'll let it be there. I love you, I love you, I love
you. I'm listening.
(07:22):
You would not be a good dad. That's not true.
I would be an excellent dad. I would be an excellent dad.
I fully believe that. You think so?
Yeah, I fully believe that 100%.Honey, you have verbally, not
physically verbally threaten to murder the cats like 3 * a week.
(07:46):
Yeah, but that is a normal like listen, you're telling.
What if it was a? Child Yeah, it's threatening
their lives, but not making goodon it is part of parenting.
Yeah, but cats can't speak English, but kids can.
If you teach them English, yeah,that's true.
I. Love you.
And I think in other ways, like other ways you would make a good
(08:10):
dad, but like in the main way that you need patience to be a
dad. That's good.
I don't know. Well.
Listen, there's a good good newsis we'll never find out Good.
News is, I didn't pick you for that reason.
I picked you for many other reasons.
We. Never.
It's, it's not going to be a bitlike we'll do some bits.
It won't be a bit We're we're never going to do it for the
(08:33):
Vine. In terms of having a kid.
Oh my. God, I digress.
You know what? Well, there's people out there
that have kids that basically they they want to use them as
kid fluencers and stuff, you know what I mean?
Those for the content. Who?
Yes that's so funny. Every time there's a kid on
(08:53):
TikTok I scroll so I don't. You're not getting views from
me. I it's that should be a whole
episode of kids that we watched on TikTok and skipped over and
kids that we watched on TikTok that we stopped and we were
like, oh, wait a second. That's a whole episode.
We should write that down. Also, you've threatened A
(09:15):
vasectomy so many times and it'slike make good on it already.
And should we just do it live onthe podcast?
That I will do a bit out of for sure.
We can do that. It's not like I stop talking
about it and be about it, you know, get the vasectomy.
Yeah, I get it. I get it.
(09:35):
I got to make good on the promise.
So I do think it's funny though,and I have an idea.
You actually brought it up before the pod and we'll do it
in a second. But I do think it's funny that
like we established this early on in our relationship, but then
there were also stages where people were just assuming that
we were going to change our minds.
When we first got together, it was, well, when you get married,
(09:55):
you're going to want to have kids.
We got married. Then when we were married,
people were like, oh, wait, about a year, then you're going
to want to have kids. That also didn't happen.
And then people were like, well,you're buying a house.
Once you buy a house and nest inthat house, yeah, you're going
to want to put a kid in that extra bedroom.
That also didn't happen. And that leads me to this
question. Why is it that people can't
(10:19):
accept it? People can accept that you want
to live in a different state. People can accept that you want
to drive a different car, go to a different university.
This, for whatever reason, seemsto be a choice that a lot of
people have a hard time wrappingtheir head around, you know?
What I actually think people would be, would be more apt to
accept if we told everyone, hey,you know what, we're voting for
(10:42):
Trump. Yes 100% I weirdly.
Think they'd be like, well, I respect your I respect your
right to vote even though it's different than my beliefs.
I respect your right to vote forTrump.
To be clear, just to, to say it on public platform, we
absolutely did not vote for thatmonster.
But like, it's weird how our decision to not have kids is
(11:03):
somehow harder for people to accept.
Yeah, it's really difficult for people to wrap their heads
around, but we are in the stage of our life where we've part of
the reason we want to do this podcast is to promote like it's
OK, it's OK to to make that choice.
It's. OK, to not live the cookie
cutter American dream that people sell you as a child
(11:23):
because we owned a house for five years.
We owned a townhouse and then a single family home.
And you know what we put in thatextra bedroom?
Retro games, the retro games that I guess a kid would have
loved, but they were technicallyfor you as an adult man.
(11:44):
Yeah. They were not.
For kids to play with and we. Recently made the decision that
owning a house is a scam in LA. Well, in in some respect, yeah.
We just your point is accurate in that there's like the
American Dream and the American Dream was built during a
different America. It's OK to have a different
(12:06):
version of it now. Yeah, we just decided if we had
the kinds of careers where, yes,we're home by 5:00 PM every day
and like we spend a lot of time in our home, then we could be a
homemaker and spend a lot of time taking care of our property
and cleaning and improving it and doing all these things.
(12:27):
But we're both in entertainment.We're both barely home.
It makes sense to be central. It makes sense to stop
commuting. It doesn't make sense to have a
giant mortgage and a pool and all these random ass bills and
fire insurance and property tax that pops up that's oh, somehow
three times bigger than last year.
Why? Because half of LA burnt down.
(12:50):
Yeah, it's. Just an ass pain now.
Your commute was two hours both ways.
Like no, no I it does. Make me think of that when you
think of that reality it it really if you decide to
introduce a child into that, my brain explodes.
I I do have to say I don't understand how people do it.
(13:12):
I don't understand how people doit.
I I read an article earlier thisweek.
I guess technically we are we'reI know we said we're Dinks,
we're technically dink wads and this is a whole what does the.
Wad stand for. Double income, no kids with a
dog. Oh my.
Wait wait, it's episode 1? Should we change the name of the
(13:34):
podcast to Dinkwads? It's tempting.
It's tempting, funny, I know it's tempting, but I was, I was
reading this and it's like, and we should do a whole episode on
comparing things that you do foryour dog versus the cost of
doing it for a kid, like going to the doctor, vaccinations,
(13:54):
food, all that. Like I would really know how
want to know how the numbers stack up.
But like health, health insurance, clothes, health
insurance. Like it, it is a it's expensive
having the dogs. And I think to myself like, OK,
it was expensive for us to own ahouse and have dogs.
I can't imagine adding a kid to that just.
To dip a toe in. What is the dog health
(14:15):
insurance? You said it went up again, So
what is it at now? $230 a month for.
Two dogs. Yeah, and.
Now what do you think health insurance would cost for a
child? A whole ass human.
If I had to guess, like all in costs between employer and
employee contributions, it wouldprobably be 400 bucks a kid a
(14:38):
month. That would be my estimate.
Jesus. Yeah.
And by the way, that doesn't even cover when you have the
kid. When you have a baby it's like
$20,000 minimum with insurance. I'm Googling it.
We paid $70.00 for one of our dogs, you know what I mean.
(15:03):
What are you Googling? How much is child health
insurance? Yeah, I really have no idea.
I mean, I think the latest number on total cost because
every year they do like an indexon how much it cost to have a
kid in America from age 0 to 18 and total all in cost is like
(15:24):
half $1,000,000 or something. Yeah.
The current average is $336 per month to cover a child under the
age of 15. The average cost for an 18 year
old is 397 a month. So that's just from Forbes
Advisors analysis. That's a lot.
(15:45):
That's. Per.
Kid per. Kid, I mean we can dive deeper
on other items, but that's crazyit's.
Crazy when when you think about it like that will snowball.
That will really add up very quickly.
Yeah. Should we?
Ping some back and forth of our actual.
I mean, I don't want to call them the 10 commandments, but in
every sense they hold value in my life as though they're the 10
(16:09):
commandments. A few reasons why we decided to
be child free. Yeah, let's do it.
I mean, I'll kick us off with Sensiderio was born.
I don't resonate with children. I I don't.
I've met maybe one out of every 100 children that I resonate
(16:29):
with and that one out of 100 doesn't make me want to birth
one. It just makes it it may.
The one out of 100 makes me realize I'm not a serial killer
sociopath. It makes me realize that I have
a heart, it's in there somewhere, and one in 100 melts
my heart and the other 99 need to stay away from my body.
(16:51):
Accurate. I would add to that list and
this is similar quiet. So #2 is we value our we value
quiet time. Yes, I.
Think about it all the time, whenever I get home after a long
day and sometimes you're here, sometimes you're not.
(17:14):
When I get home, I've been so over inundated with the world
and you know how it is now. Like yes, work is stressful, but
then you also are on your phone and you're hearing music in the
car and people are honking and people are talking to you all
day and calling you and texting you and FaceTime and voice
notes. By the time I finish my day, I
there's no way I would keep my insanity.
(17:39):
If I heard a child screaming in my house.
I I just wouldn't be able to do it.
You would keep your SO number. 2for me is is the quiet Yeah.
I would say #3 is I don't want to give up my career.
I think that yes, there are comedians that make it work that
(17:59):
are parents, but there is definitely a sacrifice.
So you're either sacrificing time with your kid, which is not
great, or you're sacrificing theamount of gigs you can say yes
to to be with your kid, which I also just don't want to do.
Yeah. That's a good one.
(18:20):
I just can't imagine having to make career choices based on
anything other than what I want my career to be like.
It it's, and I respect people todo it, that that make the hard
choice to support the family andeverything.
I just don't want to do that. Let's see #4I, this is a weird
(18:41):
one, but it's one I think about a lot and I think you'll
understand it. You don't have to be friends
with people who you would no like, not normally be friends
with. What do I mean by that?
You don't have to have the parents of your of your kids
friend in your life if you don'twant to be friends with them.
(19:05):
Right. It's like forced parent
friendships, yes. Forced parent friendship?
That's a better way of putting it.
Yeah, I, I actually never reallyconsidered that because my brain
doesn't get as far as like having one, you know, So that,
but that is a good, that's a good thing.
(19:26):
It's a good choice #5 is IA corevalue is I want to travel and
see the world. And yes, you can travel with a
kid. It costs a lot of money and it
does affect where you go. There's a lot of places that are
adults only that I want to go. And I specifically, we pick out
(19:49):
resorts that are adults only 21 plus because we want that.
And I want to be able to go and not pay for a kid to go or have
to deal with lugging a child around a city or having a kid
complain that we're walking too much or blah, blah blah,
depending on what age it is. But.
(20:09):
You know what I mean? So traveling is a priority, and
that's harder with a child. It's harder with a child for so
many reasons. It's harder financially, it's
harder time wise because you gotto work around a school
schedule. It's as you said, it's harder to
to make choices on what you're doing based on you have a kid
with you. You also have to bring way more
(20:31):
shit. You have to worry about the
stroller and the diaper bag and the, you know, and you have to
get on an airplane with a child.Oh my God, that.
Alone, that should be its own number six.
Yeah, it could be. It could be.
You never have to be on an airplane with a child that
you're responsible for. Yeah.
(20:53):
That's a good one. Should that should I put that as
its own or is that just part of travel?
I mean, number six could be you don't have to be in on public
transport with a child. OK #7 this is kind of similar,
but I think it's a big one because you and I are very pro
small car people. You don't have to get a big ass
(21:16):
car. You don't.
Need a minivan? How nice is that?
Like you, you currently drive a Fiat 500.
I want to get a Fiat 500 becauseI love yours so much.
It's the most impractical car for fitting a a stroller, you're
telling. Me, I couldn't put a car seat in
the back of that thing. I'm telling you, you could, but
(21:39):
it would be the biggest pain in the ass to get the baby in and
out because it's a 2 door car. Yeah, you.
Know that would just be. That would be awful.
You're right, I would have to. Give up.
I would have to give up my car that.
That would be so shitty. Yeah, that would suck. #8 I
don't want to have to explain myself to a child I.
(21:59):
Don't want, I don't. Want to have to explain the
world to a child or myself or myactions or how to do anything or
teach it anything. Yeah, that's a good one.
That's a really good one, because naturally kids are
growing up, their brains are expanding and they ask a lot of
questions. And that's how I was as a kid.
(22:21):
Hate questions so much, even if there's days when you ask me too
many questions, I'm like we got to stop with the questions.
I can't you. Can you imagine?
I can imagine because that's thetype of kid I was.
Everything that happened throughout a day, if we were in
(22:42):
the car, I'd be like, Dad, why is that doing that?
Dad, what does this mean? Dad, what is how do I do that?
Where is this? What is that out the window?
What color? It's just like constant,
constant. It's over.
Stimulating. It's I, yeah, absolutely.
It's way over stimulating. That's a good one.
Number 9, I'm a person that catastrophizes.
(23:06):
I think way too far ahead and this one is when I think about
regularly I am not responsible for my kids actions.
I'm not responsible if they become a murderer.
I'm not responsible if they become a criminal, a, you know,
tax fraudist, whatever you want to I I'm not responsible for
(23:30):
their imprint on the world because I'm not having one.
There's. OK, first of all, there's
parents. Every serial killer has a
parent. So what happened there?
And what and what and what did you fuck up that this happened?
Also, when you said I'm catastrophizing, I thought you
were going to say that you wouldconstantly be worried that it
(23:52):
would kill itself on accident. I mean that.
Too, Yeah. But I guess that didn't even
make the list. It didn't make the list because
it's kind of like AI guess I kind of put it in there with
responsibility. It's kind of a general thought,
but that would be the other thing is I, you know, people
(24:14):
shit on helicopter parents. I think that we would be
helicopter parents if we had a damn kid, yeah.
Because it's like every time we're in grocery stores and
there's one crawling on the ground licking the wall, I'm
like, EW, it's going to get the plague.
Disgusting. I don't know #10 I was going to
(24:40):
say it. I think that money has played a
part in all of these. That we don't like, that we've
like having money and that we would prefer not to be poor
because at the current state of our lives we have, we have a
perfect amount of money for us and our dogs.
We don't have the perfect amountof money to have a kid.
So there's that. It would just eat up all our
(25:02):
money. But I think if because that's
kind of been in all of them. So my #10 can be that I don't
think that kids shows or kids playing with stuff or kids music
is cute. I would kill myself.
So I. So no kidz bop is what you're
saying if I. Had to sit and watch the Wiggles
(25:24):
or like any kids show. What is it Bluey or any?
If I had to, if I had to consumekids content, you would be a
widower. I I believe you.
It's hard enough. To get you to watch an adult
movie, let alone you know, let alone a goo goo.
Gaga Bing Bing bong bong thing. Especially now, because when we
(25:47):
were kids, there was like quieter television on.
It was like Mr. Rogers going, here's how to feel a feeling.
And now it's like. Mr. Just.
Constant noise, Mr. Rogers was. So Zen and calming compared to
the shit that's on now. He's a St.
(26:08):
Anyway. He's he's basically a St. for
kids. But anyway, yeah, that's a good
list. And I do agree, I think money is
the all-encompassing one. It's the idea that we don't have
to pay for a child. It's the idea that we can save.
It's the idea that we can do what we want when we want.
You want to go to dinner tonight?
Yeah, let's go because we want to.
(26:28):
We don't have to call. A babysitter, not the
babysitter, and thinking that ifyou want to order dessert, that
dessert is not a $15 dessert. It's actually a $65 dessert
because you have to pay an extrahour of the babysitter if you
don't get home right away. Wait, that's a that we should
make that another future app of just like what all these
(26:50):
activities would cost with Babysitter included.
Think about like. A week long vacation?
Yeah, that is a very tough one. Or an.
Au pair or a nanny because yeah,you want to be so successful
when you're popping out a kid that you could have a nanny or
an au pair when you're travelingor whatever.
That's a whole ass other person you have to fly everywhere and
(27:12):
house and get a hotel for and pay hourly and get them meals.
They don't. It's So then you're basically
paying for two extra human beings, and that's if you have
one kid I. Can't God I'm.
Actually like giving myself a panic attack thinking about
this, so I know. How I don't?
So basically, how do people do it?
(27:34):
Do people that have kids, if they didn't have them, would
they just be filthy rich becausethey're just spending so much
money on this kid? Yes, I actually, so I think it
was the Wall Street Journal did a thing where it said that the
the people that are able to hit $1,000,000 net worth by the age
(27:55):
of 30, the majority of them don't have children because it
is, it's like a statistic impossibility because how much
money you're shelling out for soccer practice and diapers and
activities and babysitters and you name it, you know?
Yeah. And listen, you could say that
this sounds materialistic, but I'm not using that money.
(28:18):
And I could, you know, no shade on the people that do.
I'm not using that money to go buy designer bags.
I'm just using that money to invest in my career and my
experiences, which, you know, ifyou want a designer bag and you
don't want to pay for a kid, that's also a choice.
That's fine. Yeah.
That's. Chill but.
(28:39):
That's up to you any who. Those are our top 10
commandments of why we chose to be child free.
The list is approximately 117 reasons longer, but we won't
bore you with the minutia. I, I do think that I'm going to
keep track of it though, becausewe should add to it every time
we do a, an episode because I, I, we're only going to uncover
(29:00):
new thoughts of like, Oh my God,this would be so much different
if we had a child. But I do want to go into next
something we're going to do in every episode, our cancelled kid
of the week. And this should go really with
no explanation. It is our real life experience,
a real life reminder as to why we don't want kids and kind of
(29:23):
how much parents suck in the real world.
And there was one that hit us over the face last weekend.
What was it? Yeah.
We went to the Studio City Farmers Market for the first
time 'cause it's right by our new place.
And there was this stand I was really looking forward to seeing
because I saw it on TikTok. And it's this fresh fruit stand
(29:44):
where they have tons of different like produce, fruits,
vegetables, etcetera. And they're all in season and
they cut up little samples of them.
And you can sample all of these different kinds that you've
never had before and like different types of nectarines,
like they had like 6 different types of nectarines and Peaches
and all this stuff. And you can sample them all and
(30:06):
then decide which fresh fruit you want to get.
Whatever. And it was ruined.
It went down in flames. And I actually no longer felt
welcome there or happy there because immediately upon trying
to sample something with a little, Oh my God, I almost
called AQ tip. What the hell?
Toothpick? I was trying to sample something
(30:28):
with a toothpick and a child. I don't know.
I don't understand children's ages.
How old do you think it was, 2? Three, probably like three.
Yeah, it it was. Walking on its own, but I don't
really know when that happens either.
I think it was around 3:00 because it was also kind of
blabbering some words. Also I understand that I'm
(30:49):
calling it it. However I don't feel safe
gendering a child anymore because it's 2025.
What if they identify as they them?
OK so it started grabbing with open palm, bear palm, shitty ass
snotty ass germy ass palm. Started palming all of the
nectarine samples with an open hand and just shoving them
(31:13):
towards its face slash, not eveneating them just touching it was
at. Face level It was literally nose
and mouth were a centimeter awayfrom the container and the.
Dad runs over after it touched like 5 different pots of samples
that now no one else knows are contaminated.
(31:35):
So the poor strangers coming after me to sample nectarines
don't know that they're touchingshit ass baby hand nectarines.
So it ended up just being so disgusting and that I didn't
want to sample anything or buy anything or be near them because
I was just like, well now I'm just getting pissed off because
he also wasn't like Oh no. And he didn't tell the guy whose
(31:57):
stand it was who didn't see it happen.
He just took the kid away and goes oh silly, you got to share.
Let other people sample the OK. Well your kid just ruined 100
samples with his gross ass handsand you're not going to tell him
that that's not OK. You just go.
We have to share. OK, can we, can we stop?
(32:18):
Can we? This is a plea to all parents.
Can we please stop doing the thing where it's let's pretend
to be cute because my kids trying to do something, it's
it's disruptive, it's disgustingand it's performative.
And I don't give a fuck. It's so.
Performative. It's.
So performative. I don't care that you, oh,
you're going to share. No, get your fucking kids hands
(32:40):
off my nectarines. Now, I'm not saying that I need
you to grab him aggressively or like abuse your child in front
of me for me to be happy, but a stern voice and a grabbing of
the hand and leading him away and saying, hey, we don't do
that. Throwing the sample, pull away.
If he would have taken the thingand said, now we have to throw
(33:02):
these out, 'cause you touched all of them, you wasted them.
You wasted the samples. And then offering, offering to
the guy whose stand it was, hey,I'll buy a nectarine.
Since he just ruined all your samples, I'll buy a couple
nectarines so that you can cut new ones.
Common decency and. General overall awareness.
(33:22):
Right. Make it right for the business
owner who you just now that guy has to cut 4 new sample things
because your kid just ruined them and they're all germy now.
You know where I always see thisis at the soda fountain when
we're at like a restaurant, Panda Express, California Fish
(33:43):
Grill, Chipotle. When you go up to the soda
fountain, there's a there's a parent there with their child.
And the child who is like 3 foottall is reaching as high up as
they can to get soda out of the thing.
And they're just pressing all kinds of things trying to figure
it out. And the parents like, oh, you
already got that one. Oh, which one do you want?
Just can we skip that, please? Just choose for them or have
(34:08):
them choose and you get them because it's taking about 17
hours and they're also getting their grubby little paws over
everything. Yeah, it's.
You're right, it's performative.Performative parenting really is
the source of all childhood anxieties.
It really is. Yeah, Yeah, that's a good one.
(34:29):
Also at. This farmer's market, just like
a side note, they had a Titanic blow up slide and it was in the
slide was of the Titanic sinking.
Yeah, guys, hundreds of people died when the Titanic sank and
(34:51):
now the Titanic sinking is a blow up slide.
Wow, I I don't often fall for the bait of like, well, what you
were you were learn to normalizethis as a kid in this nursery
rhyme and it affected you. I'm like how that can't possibly
be true, but I think this is real LifeProof of that being a
(35:13):
thing. You're literally teaching kids
that sliding down the sinking Titanic is fun.
Yeah. It it, it's it's weird that in
2025 people think that's OK, butother things aren't right.
Like we can't make fun of 911 but we can have a blow up
Titanic ship. Like you're, yeah, you you can't
(35:34):
have a drag queen read a, a, a story to your child, but you can
have them slide down the the side of a sinking ship.
It's it's just weird where we draw the line.
Yeah. Anywho.
Anyway. Even this out?
Should we karmically even this out with a better story about a
(35:54):
child? Sure.
And then I have one more thing to wrap us out from Reddit.
But yeah, let's do that. Our faith in humanity.
Faith in humanity segment where there's a child that restores
our faith in humanity. Aren't you glad I explained it?
Yeah, I think it. Yeah, I think it's important
too. This week, again, we live in a
(36:18):
more populated area in Studio City now, and there were
children, I think six of them, that there was quite a.
Few. Yeah, they.
Rang our doorbell, knocked on the door.
I answered it against my better judgement.
And they were like, hi, do you have a dog?
(36:39):
And I was holding our dog. So I had to say yes instead of
lie. And I was like, yeah.
And then they were like, OK, well, we're going around
walking, asking if people want us to walk their dogs.
Like they were little entrepreneur hustlers trying to
(37:00):
go around and walk people's dogs.
And separately, there were kids that asked to wash my car.
So there's kids in this neighborhood that are trying to
fucking hustle, earn money, start their careers early.
You. Know here's the reason I here's
the reason I love this you're, you're so right it's kids who
are hustling and I think that's cool I think it's also cool that
(37:23):
the parents made the kids come ask themselves Oh yeah.
Because it's you teach them a couple things #1 socially, they
get used to like uncomfortable things.
That's a good thing for them to learn.
And #2 you teach them how to do a quick little elevator pitch
for business and learn how to earn their own way.
(37:43):
Now, and also these are kids that are, you know, I assume
they live in the neighborhood inStudio City and they're
probably, you know, coming from upper middle class families if
they can afford to live in that area.
So it's cool that their parents are still showing them the value
of earning an allowance or earning money.
And did I say absolutely not? No, thank you.
(38:09):
Yes. Did I say I would never be
comfortable handing you 8 year old a leash to my dog?
That I would. Never, I would never ever trust
you with my dog, but thank you so much for asking.
I said no thank you and then oneof the kids went because which I
(38:31):
thought was hilarious because I think I was probably the 10th or
12th person to say no because also who is going to trust a
random 8 year old with their dog?
Like I I question how much you love your dog if you would just
give a random kid your dog. I agree.
I completely agree. So I don't think it's a
(38:51):
questionable choice. I.
Don't think this business venture is going to get them
very far. I think they should stick to
washing cars. But yeah, I admire them for
doing it. So it did.
It did restore my faith in humanity that day.
Yeah, I did. I think so too.
I think it was. It was a little cute.
(39:11):
Like when they came up, I was like, oh, that's cute.
Yeah, and. That's who we were as kids, you
know? Yeah, and usually I get mad when
someone rings the doorbell because I'm like, there is no
really need for anyone to ever ring a doorbell.
I don't think I kind of I would.I think I would die on that
hill. So I was initially off the RIP,
(39:37):
pretty pissed. And then when I opened the door
and saw the actual intention of what was happening, I softened,
if you can believe it. You did soften.
I witnessed it. I wish I was filming it.
I would have sent it in to Guinness.
You softened with a child, by the way, What was what was your
(39:57):
little like neighborhood job when you were a kid?
I I just sewed pillows and stufflike I sewed and and tried to
sell products instead of lemonade.
I didn't. I didn't like cut anyone's grass
or do anything like that. I Do you still have any of those
(40:20):
pillows? No, because they were out of
stock constantly because everyone wanted one.
I So I did many, many different weird things, but I think the
most common thing I tried to do was mow lawns, but it wasn't
very practical for me because number one, I wasn't strong
enough to start the lawn mower. So every time I did a lawn, my
(40:45):
dad or my brother or my grandpa would have to come pull the cord
and start the mower For me is. It that hard to start a mower?
For a weak little Cameron, it was and you know, you have to
prime the motor and then RIP that cord several times and I
just didn't really understand how to do it.
But then I I didn't last very long because I ruined a lot of
(41:10):
lawns. I ruined them.
I like what did. You do?
Oh. My God, I didn't know where the
limitations for the mower deck was, so I used to chop people's
flowers up. I used to accidentally mow ruts
into their yards. I would I I I knocked over and
cut through several garden hosesand.
You expected people to pay you for this?
(41:33):
Yeah, I mean, that was the bold move is I would finish and go to
their front door and go, I'm finished, can I have my money
and. Then they would look outside and
be like the horror. Like Oh my God.
And that there was one neighbor one time that asked me if next
time my brother could come instead.
And I I think that was the last time that I mowed a lawn.
(41:55):
Oh my God, that's yeah, that'll that'll knock yourself esteem
down. Yeah, it really.
Did that was that was kind of the that was the end for me.
That was the end for me. OK, real quick before we go, I'm
going to, I'm going to bring up Reddit quite a bit on this
podcast because there are quite a few threads that are both
(42:18):
inspiring and frankly kind of depressing, but we'll go through
them from time to time. One of the main ones is, yeah,
there's there's Child Free. That's a great one.
There's, there's another one that we're not going to bring up
today, but we will eventually. It's reddit.com/regretful
Parents and it's stories about people who have kids really wish
(42:41):
they didn't have them. And it doesn't come from a place
of like, we don't love our kids or anything like that.
It's, it's the stories of, well,we went on this vacation with
our child and this is what happened.
So we'll spend a lot of time going through these things.
But I did want to bring up from the, from the child free thread
(43:02):
somebody posted, what have you done with your DINK lifestyle?
And I thought this would be kindof be a good thing to end on so
you can hammer home the theme ofthe DINK side this podcast.
So just to bring up a few here, somebody wrote a few times a
year, my husband and I literallywill sit around and say, where
do you want to go? Then we look on the computer and
(43:23):
we just book it. We just book it.
Sometimes. It's a weekend at a remote hotel
in the Catskills. Sometimes it's a 16 hour flight
to Hong Kong. It rules.
But some of the times it's honestly just buying that
overpriced cocktail or coffee because we want to.
And I love that, I think and, and, and you know, is, is it
(43:46):
materialistic? To some extent, sure.
But also we're not here for a long time.
We're here for a good time, so as much as I would like to be a
financially responsible person, at the same time, if you want
that coffee, get that coffee. If you want that avocado toast,
go get get some avocado toast. Get it?
(44:07):
This is an interesting one too. Somebody else wrote on this
child free Reddit. What have you done with your
DINK lifestyle? My husband and I have been all
over the world, but we dedicate ourselves to education.
So she goes on to say that everycouple of months they'll do like
a a new series on an app or likethe Rosetta Stones or what's
(44:28):
that other language learning onethat people use?
It's a phone app. I forget the name.
Duolingo. Duolingo yeah.
So basically they're just sayingwe sometimes use that extra time
and money to learn new things. And I think that that's a pretty
interesting one that I don't think about often.
It's like we right now you're taking an acting class and you
(44:52):
we have the time and money to dothat because we're not paying
for actual classes for our children.
So yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people saying that they
travel. That's definitely a common
thread. And then one more.
Somebody else said, by the way, that their husband's getting
their PhD, not going to go that far, but he'll learn a new
(45:14):
language or something. The last thing that somebody
said was my partner and I volunteer a lot.
For me, a child free life is about seeing a broader picture
of what my legacy is. Not just my blood legacy, but
the legacy I'm leaving on the world.
I thought that was a beautiful thing.
Yeah. Because we volunteer.
(45:34):
We volunteer and so many people think about like, I want to
continue the family bloodline orI want to whatever, but there's
other ways to like leave something behind and I think
that that's really cool. Oh, so it's always like what?
Bloodline? Who cares?
Oh my God, the famous Wolschlager and Kusiel
bloodlines. Oh no, it's a.
(45:56):
It's a dynasty. It's a dynasty.
Yeah. Well, I think that about does it
for F1, yeah. Yeah, hopefully, you know,
hopefully you're still with us. And if not dink you very much, I
(46:18):
don't know. Is there?
I just want to know, like if anybody listening is finding out
for the first time that we're not having kids.
I highly doubt it. If they've listened before, I
think it's pretty clear. I like to think it's crystal
clear. I'll leave you with one more
thing. It is my dink tip of the week.
(46:39):
OK. And.
I part you by saying just because it's back to school
season doesn't mean that summer is over if you don't have kids.
There's a new term buzzing on the Internet, Dick.
Dual income? No, kid, you probably have an
opinion on these people or an opinion on people who have an
opinion on these people. America's birth rate has hit its
lowest point in more than a century.
Some are blaming it on infertility.
Others say the state of the world is causing couples to
think twice about having children.
(00:21):
Childless marriages could be a good thing if they were a result
of God's sovereign providential work.
Oh my God, can't even hear you. They like avocado toast and
brunches out and going to plays and having sweet vacations.
Yeah, you're probably super selfish.
Kids are better than brunch. Wrong.
And then there's another group of young couples that want the
(00:43):
lifestyle of childless households and the lifestyle it
brings with it. Welcome to The DINK Side, the
podcast about life, laughs and living child free.
We're a double income, no kids couple navigating the UPS, downs
and hilarious in betweens of choosing a different path in the
world that won't stop asking. So when are you having kids?
(01:10):
I love that because it's so true.
I'm Cameron. That is my wife KDK.
Hi. So there might be some friends
of ours out there who are listening to this podcast.
And for some of you, it is a reminder of who we are and what
we do. And to some of you, it is an
introduction to us. But this is the DINK side.
(01:30):
It's a new podcast where we're going to step through our life
as a DINK couple. And DINK, of course, stands for,
as you said, babe, double income, no kids.
Or some people say dual income, no kids.
Whatever double duel, it means more money.
It means more money and in our opinion, more laughter and and
(01:51):
fun and enjoyable life. More freedom, but we have
friends that podcast listeners and friends in real life, IRL,
if you will, that have children or having children or are
pregnant or want to get pregnant.
And we send you love. And we're not, you know, popular
(02:12):
opinion might be that we're justgonna shit on children and
parents during this podcast. And you'd be wrong.
Because I would like. And to those people, I would say
I invite you to listen to this whole episode.
And our last segment is in fact positive.
What? I know, I know, I know what I
(02:36):
know. It's new for us.
We used to. We used to finish off the pod
with rage, and that's not to saythat there won't be plenty of
rage, but there's. Going to be some rage in there.
We're going to leave you. Rage in there.
We're going to leave you with a twinkle in your eye at the end
of the UPS, OK? Amen, Amen.
A twinkle in the eye. That's yeah, 'cause there's
(02:58):
twinkles in our eyes. So I, I, I guess I think it's
important to like tell people very quickly about how we'd
mutually decided to not have children because this is
something that I'm asked about on a weirdly like a very common,
it's very often that people ask me why, who was the one that
(03:22):
decided to not have kids? Yeah.
Is your wife aware? Do people think that I pressured
you into this decision? I think that probably 95% of
people assume that you pressuredme into this decision.
Which is weird because I'm the woman and most people when they
(03:45):
ask me, they're like, oh, when are you having kids?
Not are you choosing to have children.
They just say, oh, when are you like popping out babies?
And I'm like, oh, oh, first of all, get out of my womb.
Remove yourself from inside of me.
Thank you for that assumption. And then also it's usually the
(04:06):
woman that's quote UN quote maternal and born to bear
children and not as often the man that's like born to be a
dad. Right.
So I I find that surprising, butwhatever.
No, I think it's, to be honest, I think it's 95% of people who
know us personally think that you pressured me into it.
(04:28):
But people who don't, people whodon't know us, assume that I
pressured you into it. Because I also think that
there's, like you said, there's people who just assume that the
man doesn't want the kids and whatever.
Point being, I think it's hilarious that people assume
that we don't talk to one another about it.
And that it wasn't very mutual. And to be clear, the origin
(04:52):
story of this decision was on our second date.
I brought it up because I moved to LA from Arkansas.
You moved from Saint Louis. In the Midwest, it is common for
people to be 22 popping out their second or third child.
So I was like, you know, what ifthis Saint Louis guy that I like
(05:13):
that I'm going on dates with wants to settle down and have
kids, I should probably tell himbefore we like each other too
much that I'm not into that. So I think on our second date, I
was like, hey, whoa, sorry if this is a lot, but just so you
know, I don't want to have kids.And you were like.
(05:35):
Nah, me neither. I think you said, my memory of
it is that you said, oh, thank God.
Yeah, it was something along those lines.
And I feel like even in even in that moment when we talked about
it, like there was still part ofme that was like, it's going to
(05:55):
take a while for people to understand that this is a
genuine decision. Because also, I think people
think that we're in that stage that early on in dating that I'm
just trying to please you or you're just trying to please me,
but will actually reveal our true feelings a year after or
something. But no, that's not the case.
I would also venture to say let me know if this is too bold,
(06:18):
that every single day of our relationship after date #2 we
have wanted kids less than when we talked about it. 100%, 100%.
It hasn't got, it's not that we've ever faltered in the
decision, it's that we've cemented deeper into the
decision. Every breath that I take,
basically, Yeah. Yeah.
(06:40):
And it's OK that we're like thisbecause there's a lot of times
when I'm like, have you seen me,met me or talked to me?
Do you think I should create life?
I listen, I have said it many times.
I think that you would be a great mom.
You would be an incredible mom. Do do I want you to be a mom?
(07:00):
God, no. Hell no.
It's better for the world if you're not.
I can't tell if I'm flattered bythat or irritated, so we'll just
let it ride as both, but. Yeah, we'll let it be there.
We'll let it be there. I love you, I love you, I love
you. I'm listening.
(07:22):
You would not be a good dad. That's not true.
I would be an excellent dad. I would be an excellent dad.
I fully believe that. You think so?
Yeah, I fully believe that 100%.Honey, you have verbally, not
physically verbally threaten to murder the cats like 3 * a week.
(07:46):
Yeah, but that is a normal like listen, you're telling.
What if it was a? Child Yeah, it's threatening
their lives, but not making goodon it is part of parenting.
Yeah, but cats can't speak English, but kids can.
If you teach them English, yeah,that's true.
I. Love you.
And I think in other ways, like other ways you would make a good
(08:10):
dad, but like in the main way that you need patience to be a
dad. That's good.
I don't know. Well.
Listen, there's a good good newsis we'll never find out Good.
News is, I didn't pick you for that reason.
I picked you for many other reasons.
We. Never.
It's, it's not going to be a bitlike we'll do some bits.
It won't be a bit We're we're never going to do it for the
(08:33):
Vine. In terms of having a kid.
Oh my. God, I digress.
You know what? Well, there's people out there
that have kids that basically they they want to use them as
kid fluencers and stuff, you know what I mean?
Those for the content. Who?
Yes that's so funny. Every time there's a kid on
(08:53):
TikTok I scroll so I don't. You're not getting views from
me. I it's that should be a whole
episode of kids that we watched on TikTok and skipped over and
kids that we watched on TikTok that we stopped and we were
like, oh, wait a second. That's a whole episode.
We should write that down. Also, you've threatened A
(09:15):
vasectomy so many times and it'slike make good on it already.
And should we just do it live onthe podcast?
That I will do a bit out of for sure.
We can do that. It's not like I stop talking
about it and be about it, you know, get the vasectomy.
Yeah, I get it. I get it.
(09:35):
I got to make good on the promise.
So I do think it's funny though,and I have an idea.
You actually brought it up before the pod and we'll do it
in a second. But I do think it's funny that
like we established this early on in our relationship, but then
there were also stages where people were just assuming that
we were going to change our minds.
When we first got together, it was, well, when you get married,
(09:55):
you're going to want to have kids.
We got married. Then when we were married,
people were like, oh, wait, about a year, then you're going
to want to have kids. That also didn't happen.
And then people were like, well,you're buying a house.
Once you buy a house and nest inthat house, yeah, you're going
to want to put a kid in that extra bedroom.
That also didn't happen. And that leads me to this
question. Why is it that people can't
(10:19):
accept it? People can accept that you want
to live in a different state. People can accept that you want
to drive a different car, go to a different university.
This, for whatever reason, seemsto be a choice that a lot of
people have a hard time wrappingtheir head around, you know?
What I actually think people would be, would be more apt to
accept if we told everyone, hey,you know what, we're voting for
(10:42):
Trump. Yes 100% I weirdly.
Think they'd be like, well, I respect your I respect your
right to vote even though it's different than my beliefs.
I respect your right to vote forTrump.
To be clear, just to, to say it on public platform, we
absolutely did not vote for thatmonster.
But like, it's weird how our decision to not have kids is
(11:03):
somehow harder for people to accept.
Yeah, it's really difficult for people to wrap their heads
around, but we are in the stage of our life where we've part of
the reason we want to do this podcast is to promote like it's
OK, it's OK to to make that choice.
It's. OK, to not live the cookie
cutter American dream that people sell you as a child
(11:23):
because we owned a house for five years.
We owned a townhouse and then a single family home.
And you know what we put in thatextra bedroom?
Retro games, the retro games that I guess a kid would have
loved, but they were technicallyfor you as an adult man.
(11:44):
Yeah. They were not.
For kids to play with and we. Recently made the decision that
owning a house is a scam in LA. Well, in in some respect, yeah.
We just your point is accurate in that there's like the
American Dream and the American Dream was built during a
different America. It's OK to have a different
(12:06):
version of it now. Yeah, we just decided if we had
the kinds of careers where, yes,we're home by 5:00 PM every day
and like we spend a lot of time in our home, then we could be a
homemaker and spend a lot of time taking care of our property
and cleaning and improving it and doing all these things.
(12:27):
But we're both in entertainment.We're both barely home.
It makes sense to be central. It makes sense to stop
commuting. It doesn't make sense to have a
giant mortgage and a pool and all these random ass bills and
fire insurance and property tax that pops up that's oh, somehow
three times bigger than last year.
Why? Because half of LA burnt down.
(12:50):
Yeah, it's. Just an ass pain now.
Your commute was two hours both ways.
Like no, no I it does. Make me think of that when you
think of that reality it it really if you decide to
introduce a child into that, my brain explodes.
I I do have to say I don't understand how people do it.
(13:12):
I don't understand how people doit.
I I read an article earlier thisweek.
I guess technically we are we'reI know we said we're Dinks,
we're technically dink wads and this is a whole what does the.
Wad stand for. Double income, no kids with a
dog. Oh my.
Wait wait, it's episode 1? Should we change the name of the
(13:34):
podcast to Dinkwads? It's tempting.
It's tempting, funny, I know it's tempting, but I was, I was
reading this and it's like, and we should do a whole episode on
comparing things that you do foryour dog versus the cost of
doing it for a kid, like going to the doctor, vaccinations,
(13:54):
food, all that. Like I would really know how
want to know how the numbers stack up.
But like health, health insurance, clothes, health
insurance. Like it, it is a it's expensive
having the dogs. And I think to myself like, OK,
it was expensive for us to own ahouse and have dogs.
I can't imagine adding a kid to that just.
To dip a toe in. What is the dog health
(14:15):
insurance? You said it went up again, So
what is it at now? $230 a month for.
Two dogs. Yeah, and.
Now what do you think health insurance would cost for a
child? A whole ass human.
If I had to guess, like all in costs between employer and
employee contributions, it wouldprobably be 400 bucks a kid a
(14:38):
month. That would be my estimate.
Jesus. Yeah.
And by the way, that doesn't even cover when you have the
kid. When you have a baby it's like
$20,000 minimum with insurance. I'm Googling it.
We paid $70.00 for one of our dogs, you know what I mean.
(15:03):
What are you Googling? How much is child health
insurance? Yeah, I really have no idea.
I mean, I think the latest number on total cost because
every year they do like an indexon how much it cost to have a
kid in America from age 0 to 18 and total all in cost is like
(15:24):
half $1,000,000 or something. Yeah.
The current average is $336 per month to cover a child under the
age of 15. The average cost for an 18 year
old is 397 a month. So that's just from Forbes
Advisors analysis. That's a lot.
(15:45):
That's. Per.
Kid per. Kid, I mean we can dive deeper
on other items, but that's crazyit's.
Crazy when when you think about it like that will snowball.
That will really add up very quickly.
Yeah. Should we?
Ping some back and forth of our actual.
I mean, I don't want to call them the 10 commandments, but in
every sense they hold value in my life as though they're the 10
(16:09):
commandments. A few reasons why we decided to
be child free. Yeah, let's do it.
I mean, I'll kick us off with Sensiderio was born.
I don't resonate with children. I I don't.
I've met maybe one out of every 100 children that I resonate
(16:29):
with and that one out of 100 doesn't make me want to birth
one. It just makes it it may.
The one out of 100 makes me realize I'm not a serial killer
sociopath. It makes me realize that I have
a heart, it's in there somewhere, and one in 100 melts
my heart and the other 99 need to stay away from my body.
(16:51):
Accurate. I would add to that list and
this is similar quiet. So #2 is we value our we value
quiet time. Yes, I.
Think about it all the time, whenever I get home after a long
day and sometimes you're here, sometimes you're not.
(17:14):
When I get home, I've been so over inundated with the world
and you know how it is now. Like yes, work is stressful, but
then you also are on your phone and you're hearing music in the
car and people are honking and people are talking to you all
day and calling you and texting you and FaceTime and voice
notes. By the time I finish my day, I
there's no way I would keep my insanity.
(17:39):
If I heard a child screaming in my house.
I I just wouldn't be able to do it.
You would keep your SO number. 2for me is is the quiet Yeah.
I would say #3 is I don't want to give up my career.
I think that yes, there are comedians that make it work that
(17:59):
are parents, but there is definitely a sacrifice.
So you're either sacrificing time with your kid, which is not
great, or you're sacrificing theamount of gigs you can say yes
to to be with your kid, which I also just don't want to do.
Yeah. That's a good one.
(18:20):
I just can't imagine having to make career choices based on
anything other than what I want my career to be like.
It it's, and I respect people todo it, that that make the hard
choice to support the family andeverything.
I just don't want to do that. Let's see #4I, this is a weird
(18:41):
one, but it's one I think about a lot and I think you'll
understand it. You don't have to be friends
with people who you would no like, not normally be friends
with. What do I mean by that?
You don't have to have the parents of your of your kids
friend in your life if you don'twant to be friends with them.
(19:05):
Right. It's like forced parent
friendships, yes. Forced parent friendship?
That's a better way of putting it.
Yeah, I, I actually never reallyconsidered that because my brain
doesn't get as far as like having one, you know, So that,
but that is a good, that's a good thing.
(19:26):
It's a good choice #5 is IA corevalue is I want to travel and
see the world. And yes, you can travel with a
kid. It costs a lot of money and it
does affect where you go. There's a lot of places that are
adults only that I want to go. And I specifically, we pick out
(19:49):
resorts that are adults only 21 plus because we want that.
And I want to be able to go and not pay for a kid to go or have
to deal with lugging a child around a city or having a kid
complain that we're walking too much or blah, blah blah,
depending on what age it is. But.
(20:09):
You know what I mean? So traveling is a priority, and
that's harder with a child. It's harder with a child for so
many reasons. It's harder financially, it's
harder time wise because you gotto work around a school
schedule. It's as you said, it's harder to
to make choices on what you're doing based on you have a kid
with you. You also have to bring way more
(20:31):
shit. You have to worry about the
stroller and the diaper bag and the, you know, and you have to
get on an airplane with a child.Oh my God, that.
Alone, that should be its own number six.
Yeah, it could be. It could be.
You never have to be on an airplane with a child that
you're responsible for. Yeah.
(20:53):
That's a good one. Should that should I put that as
its own or is that just part of travel?
I mean, number six could be you don't have to be in on public
transport with a child. OK #7 this is kind of similar,
but I think it's a big one because you and I are very pro
small car people. You don't have to get a big ass
(21:16):
car. You don't.
Need a minivan? How nice is that?
Like you, you currently drive a Fiat 500.
I want to get a Fiat 500 becauseI love yours so much.
It's the most impractical car for fitting a a stroller, you're
telling. Me, I couldn't put a car seat in
the back of that thing. I'm telling you, you could, but
(21:39):
it would be the biggest pain in the ass to get the baby in and
out because it's a 2 door car. Yeah, you.
Know that would just be. That would be awful.
You're right, I would have to. Give up.
I would have to give up my car that.
That would be so shitty. Yeah, that would suck. #8 I
don't want to have to explain myself to a child I.
(21:59):
Don't want, I don't. Want to have to explain the
world to a child or myself or myactions or how to do anything or
teach it anything. Yeah, that's a good one.
That's a really good one, because naturally kids are
growing up, their brains are expanding and they ask a lot of
questions. And that's how I was as a kid.
(22:21):
Hate questions so much, even if there's days when you ask me too
many questions, I'm like we got to stop with the questions.
I can't you. Can you imagine?
I can imagine because that's thetype of kid I was.
Everything that happened throughout a day, if we were in
(22:42):
the car, I'd be like, Dad, why is that doing that?
Dad, what does this mean? Dad, what is how do I do that?
Where is this? What is that out the window?
What color? It's just like constant,
constant. It's over.
Stimulating. It's I, yeah, absolutely.
It's way over stimulating. That's a good one.
Number 9, I'm a person that catastrophizes.
(23:06):
I think way too far ahead and this one is when I think about
regularly I am not responsible for my kids actions.
I'm not responsible if they become a murderer.
I'm not responsible if they become a criminal, a, you know,
tax fraudist, whatever you want to I I'm not responsible for
(23:30):
their imprint on the world because I'm not having one.
There's. OK, first of all, there's
parents. Every serial killer has a
parent. So what happened there?
And what and what and what did you fuck up that this happened?
Also, when you said I'm catastrophizing, I thought you
were going to say that you wouldconstantly be worried that it
(23:52):
would kill itself on accident. I mean that.
Too, Yeah. But I guess that didn't even
make the list. It didn't make the list because
it's kind of like AI guess I kind of put it in there with
responsibility. It's kind of a general thought,
but that would be the other thing is I, you know, people
(24:14):
shit on helicopter parents. I think that we would be
helicopter parents if we had a damn kid, yeah.
Because it's like every time we're in grocery stores and
there's one crawling on the ground licking the wall, I'm
like, EW, it's going to get the plague.
Disgusting. I don't know #10 I was going to
(24:40):
say it. I think that money has played a
part in all of these. That we don't like, that we've
like having money and that we would prefer not to be poor
because at the current state of our lives we have, we have a
perfect amount of money for us and our dogs.
We don't have the perfect amountof money to have a kid.
So there's that. It would just eat up all our
(25:02):
money. But I think if because that's
kind of been in all of them. So my #10 can be that I don't
think that kids shows or kids playing with stuff or kids music
is cute. I would kill myself.
So I. So no kidz bop is what you're
saying if I. Had to sit and watch the Wiggles
(25:24):
or like any kids show. What is it Bluey or any?
If I had to, if I had to consumekids content, you would be a
widower. I I believe you.
It's hard enough. To get you to watch an adult
movie, let alone you know, let alone a goo goo.
Gaga Bing Bing bong bong thing. Especially now, because when we
(25:47):
were kids, there was like quieter television on.
It was like Mr. Rogers going, here's how to feel a feeling.
And now it's like. Mr. Just.
Constant noise, Mr. Rogers was. So Zen and calming compared to
the shit that's on now. He's a St.
(26:08):
Anyway. He's he's basically a St. for
kids. But anyway, yeah, that's a good
list. And I do agree, I think money is
the all-encompassing one. It's the idea that we don't have
to pay for a child. It's the idea that we can save.
It's the idea that we can do what we want when we want.
You want to go to dinner tonight?
Yeah, let's go because we want to.
(26:28):
We don't have to call. A babysitter, not the
babysitter, and thinking that ifyou want to order dessert, that
dessert is not a $15 dessert. It's actually a $65 dessert
because you have to pay an extrahour of the babysitter if you
don't get home right away. Wait, that's a that we should
make that another future app of just like what all these
(26:50):
activities would cost with Babysitter included.
Think about like. A week long vacation?
Yeah, that is a very tough one. Or an.
Au pair or a nanny because yeah,you want to be so successful
when you're popping out a kid that you could have a nanny or
an au pair when you're travelingor whatever.
That's a whole ass other person you have to fly everywhere and
(27:12):
house and get a hotel for and pay hourly and get them meals.
They don't. It's So then you're basically
paying for two extra human beings, and that's if you have
one kid I. Can't God I'm.
Actually like giving myself a panic attack thinking about
this, so I know. How I don't?
So basically, how do people do it?
(27:34):
Do people that have kids, if they didn't have them, would
they just be filthy rich becausethey're just spending so much
money on this kid? Yes, I actually, so I think it
was the Wall Street Journal did a thing where it said that the
the people that are able to hit $1,000,000 net worth by the age
(27:55):
of 30, the majority of them don't have children because it
is, it's like a statistic impossibility because how much
money you're shelling out for soccer practice and diapers and
activities and babysitters and you name it, you know?
Yeah. And listen, you could say that
this sounds materialistic, but I'm not using that money.
(28:18):
And I could, you know, no shade on the people that do.
I'm not using that money to go buy designer bags.
I'm just using that money to invest in my career and my
experiences, which, you know, ifyou want a designer bag and you
don't want to pay for a kid, that's also a choice.
That's fine. Yeah.
That's. Chill but.
(28:39):
That's up to you any who. Those are our top 10
commandments of why we chose to be child free.
The list is approximately 117 reasons longer, but we won't
bore you with the minutia. I, I do think that I'm going to
keep track of it though, becausewe should add to it every time
we do a, an episode because I, I, we're only going to uncover
(29:00):
new thoughts of like, Oh my God,this would be so much different
if we had a child. But I do want to go into next
something we're going to do in every episode, our cancelled kid
of the week. And this should go really with
no explanation. It is our real life experience,
a real life reminder as to why we don't want kids and kind of
(29:23):
how much parents suck in the real world.
And there was one that hit us over the face last weekend.
What was it? Yeah.
We went to the Studio City Farmers Market for the first
time 'cause it's right by our new place.
And there was this stand I was really looking forward to seeing
because I saw it on TikTok. And it's this fresh fruit stand
(29:44):
where they have tons of different like produce, fruits,
vegetables, etcetera. And they're all in season and
they cut up little samples of them.
And you can sample all of these different kinds that you've
never had before and like different types of nectarines,
like they had like 6 different types of nectarines and Peaches
and all this stuff. And you can sample them all and
(30:06):
then decide which fresh fruit you want to get.
Whatever. And it was ruined.
It went down in flames. And I actually no longer felt
welcome there or happy there because immediately upon trying
to sample something with a little, Oh my God, I almost
called AQ tip. What the hell?
Toothpick? I was trying to sample something
(30:28):
with a toothpick and a child. I don't know.
I don't understand children's ages.
How old do you think it was, 2? Three, probably like three.
Yeah, it it was. Walking on its own, but I don't
really know when that happens either.
I think it was around 3:00 because it was also kind of
blabbering some words. Also I understand that I'm
(30:49):
calling it it. However I don't feel safe
gendering a child anymore because it's 2025.
What if they identify as they them?
OK so it started grabbing with open palm, bear palm, shitty ass
snotty ass germy ass palm. Started palming all of the
nectarine samples with an open hand and just shoving them
(31:13):
towards its face slash, not eveneating them just touching it was
at. Face level It was literally nose
and mouth were a centimeter awayfrom the container and the.
Dad runs over after it touched like 5 different pots of samples
that now no one else knows are contaminated.
(31:35):
So the poor strangers coming after me to sample nectarines
don't know that they're touchingshit ass baby hand nectarines.
So it ended up just being so disgusting and that I didn't
want to sample anything or buy anything or be near them because
I was just like, well now I'm just getting pissed off because
he also wasn't like Oh no. And he didn't tell the guy whose
(31:57):
stand it was who didn't see it happen.
He just took the kid away and goes oh silly, you got to share.
Let other people sample the OK. Well your kid just ruined 100
samples with his gross ass handsand you're not going to tell him
that that's not OK. You just go.
We have to share. OK, can we, can we stop?
(32:18):
Can we? This is a plea to all parents.
Can we please stop doing the thing where it's let's pretend
to be cute because my kids trying to do something, it's
it's disruptive, it's disgustingand it's performative.
And I don't give a fuck. It's so.
Performative. It's.
So performative. I don't care that you, oh,
you're going to share. No, get your fucking kids hands
(32:40):
off my nectarines. Now, I'm not saying that I need
you to grab him aggressively or like abuse your child in front
of me for me to be happy, but a stern voice and a grabbing of
the hand and leading him away and saying, hey, we don't do
that. Throwing the sample, pull away.
If he would have taken the thingand said, now we have to throw
(33:02):
these out, 'cause you touched all of them, you wasted them.
You wasted the samples. And then offering, offering to
the guy whose stand it was, hey,I'll buy a nectarine.
Since he just ruined all your samples, I'll buy a couple
nectarines so that you can cut new ones.
Common decency and. General overall awareness.
(33:22):
Right. Make it right for the business
owner who you just now that guy has to cut 4 new sample things
because your kid just ruined them and they're all germy now.
You know where I always see thisis at the soda fountain when
we're at like a restaurant, Panda Express, California Fish
(33:43):
Grill, Chipotle. When you go up to the soda
fountain, there's a there's a parent there with their child.
And the child who is like 3 foottall is reaching as high up as
they can to get soda out of the thing.
And they're just pressing all kinds of things trying to figure
it out. And the parents like, oh, you
already got that one. Oh, which one do you want?
Just can we skip that, please? Just choose for them or have
(34:08):
them choose and you get them because it's taking about 17
hours and they're also getting their grubby little paws over
everything. Yeah, it's.
You're right, it's performative.Performative parenting really is
the source of all childhood anxieties.
It really is. Yeah, Yeah, that's a good one.
(34:29):
Also at. This farmer's market, just like
a side note, they had a Titanic blow up slide and it was in the
slide was of the Titanic sinking.
Yeah, guys, hundreds of people died when the Titanic sank and
(34:51):
now the Titanic sinking is a blow up slide.
Wow, I I don't often fall for the bait of like, well, what you
were you were learn to normalizethis as a kid in this nursery
rhyme and it affected you. I'm like how that can't possibly
be true, but I think this is real LifeProof of that being a
(35:13):
thing. You're literally teaching kids
that sliding down the sinking Titanic is fun.
Yeah. It it, it's it's weird that in
2025 people think that's OK, butother things aren't right.
Like we can't make fun of 911 but we can have a blow up
Titanic ship. Like you're, yeah, you you can't
(35:34):
have a drag queen read a, a, a story to your child, but you can
have them slide down the the side of a sinking ship.
It's it's just weird where we draw the line.
Yeah. Anywho.
Anyway. Even this out?
Should we karmically even this out with a better story about a
(35:54):
child? Sure.
And then I have one more thing to wrap us out from Reddit.
But yeah, let's do that. Our faith in humanity.
Faith in humanity segment where there's a child that restores
our faith in humanity. Aren't you glad I explained it?
Yeah, I think it. Yeah, I think it's important
too. This week, again, we live in a
(36:18):
more populated area in Studio City now, and there were
children, I think six of them, that there was quite a.
Few. Yeah, they.
Rang our doorbell, knocked on the door.
I answered it against my better judgement.
And they were like, hi, do you have a dog?
(36:39):
And I was holding our dog. So I had to say yes instead of
lie. And I was like, yeah.
And then they were like, OK, well, we're going around
walking, asking if people want us to walk their dogs.
Like they were little entrepreneur hustlers trying to
(37:00):
go around and walk people's dogs.
And separately, there were kids that asked to wash my car.
So there's kids in this neighborhood that are trying to
fucking hustle, earn money, start their careers early.
You. Know here's the reason I here's
the reason I love this you're, you're so right it's kids who
are hustling and I think that's cool I think it's also cool that
(37:23):
the parents made the kids come ask themselves Oh yeah.
Because it's you teach them a couple things #1 socially, they
get used to like uncomfortable things.
That's a good thing for them to learn.
And #2 you teach them how to do a quick little elevator pitch
for business and learn how to earn their own way.
(37:43):
Now, and also these are kids that are, you know, I assume
they live in the neighborhood inStudio City and they're
probably, you know, coming from upper middle class families if
they can afford to live in that area.
So it's cool that their parents are still showing them the value
of earning an allowance or earning money.
And did I say absolutely not? No, thank you.
(38:09):
Yes. Did I say I would never be
comfortable handing you 8 year old a leash to my dog?
That I would. Never, I would never ever trust
you with my dog, but thank you so much for asking.
I said no thank you and then oneof the kids went because which I
(38:31):
thought was hilarious because I think I was probably the 10th or
12th person to say no because also who is going to trust a
random 8 year old with their dog?
Like I I question how much you love your dog if you would just
give a random kid your dog. I agree.
I completely agree. So I don't think it's a
(38:51):
questionable choice. I.
Don't think this business venture is going to get them
very far. I think they should stick to
washing cars. But yeah, I admire them for
doing it. So it did.
It did restore my faith in humanity that day.
Yeah, I did. I think so too.
I think it was. It was a little cute.
(39:11):
Like when they came up, I was like, oh, that's cute.
Yeah, and. That's who we were as kids, you
know? Yeah, and usually I get mad when
someone rings the doorbell because I'm like, there is no
really need for anyone to ever ring a doorbell.
I don't think I kind of I would.I think I would die on that
hill. So I was initially off the RIP,
(39:37):
pretty pissed. And then when I opened the door
and saw the actual intention of what was happening, I softened,
if you can believe it. You did soften.
I witnessed it. I wish I was filming it.
I would have sent it in to Guinness.
You softened with a child, by the way, What was what was your
(39:57):
little like neighborhood job when you were a kid?
I I just sewed pillows and stufflike I sewed and and tried to
sell products instead of lemonade.
I didn't. I didn't like cut anyone's grass
or do anything like that. I Do you still have any of those
(40:20):
pillows? No, because they were out of
stock constantly because everyone wanted one.
I So I did many, many different weird things, but I think the
most common thing I tried to do was mow lawns, but it wasn't
very practical for me because number one, I wasn't strong
enough to start the lawn mower. So every time I did a lawn, my
(40:45):
dad or my brother or my grandpa would have to come pull the cord
and start the mower For me is. It that hard to start a mower?
For a weak little Cameron, it was and you know, you have to
prime the motor and then RIP that cord several times and I
just didn't really understand how to do it.
But then I I didn't last very long because I ruined a lot of
(41:10):
lawns. I ruined them.
I like what did. You do?
Oh. My God, I didn't know where the
limitations for the mower deck was, so I used to chop people's
flowers up. I used to accidentally mow ruts
into their yards. I would I I I knocked over and
cut through several garden hosesand.
You expected people to pay you for this?
(41:33):
Yeah, I mean, that was the bold move is I would finish and go to
their front door and go, I'm finished, can I have my money
and. Then they would look outside and
be like the horror. Like Oh my God.
And that there was one neighbor one time that asked me if next
time my brother could come instead.
And I I think that was the last time that I mowed a lawn.
(41:55):
Oh my God, that's yeah, that'll that'll knock yourself esteem
down. Yeah, it really.
Did that was that was kind of the that was the end for me.
That was the end for me. OK, real quick before we go, I'm
going to, I'm going to bring up Reddit quite a bit on this
podcast because there are quite a few threads that are both
(42:18):
inspiring and frankly kind of depressing, but we'll go through
them from time to time. One of the main ones is, yeah,
there's there's Child Free. That's a great one.
There's, there's another one that we're not going to bring up
today, but we will eventually. It's reddit.com/regretful
Parents and it's stories about people who have kids really wish
(42:41):
they didn't have them. And it doesn't come from a place
of like, we don't love our kids or anything like that.
It's, it's the stories of, well,we went on this vacation with
our child and this is what happened.
So we'll spend a lot of time going through these things.
But I did want to bring up from the, from the child free thread
(43:02):
somebody posted, what have you done with your DINK lifestyle?
And I thought this would be kindof be a good thing to end on so
you can hammer home the theme ofthe DINK side this podcast.
So just to bring up a few here, somebody wrote a few times a
year, my husband and I literallywill sit around and say, where
do you want to go? Then we look on the computer and
(43:23):
we just book it. We just book it.
Sometimes. It's a weekend at a remote hotel
in the Catskills. Sometimes it's a 16 hour flight
to Hong Kong. It rules.
But some of the times it's honestly just buying that
overpriced cocktail or coffee because we want to.
And I love that, I think and, and, and you know, is, is it
(43:46):
materialistic? To some extent, sure.
But also we're not here for a long time.
We're here for a good time, so as much as I would like to be a
financially responsible person, at the same time, if you want
that coffee, get that coffee. If you want that avocado toast,
go get get some avocado toast. Get it?
(44:07):
This is an interesting one too. Somebody else wrote on this
child free Reddit. What have you done with your
DINK lifestyle? My husband and I have been all
over the world, but we dedicate ourselves to education.
So she goes on to say that everycouple of months they'll do like
a a new series on an app or likethe Rosetta Stones or what's
(44:28):
that other language learning onethat people use?
It's a phone app. I forget the name.
Duolingo. Duolingo yeah.
So basically they're just sayingwe sometimes use that extra time
and money to learn new things. And I think that that's a pretty
interesting one that I don't think about often.
It's like we right now you're taking an acting class and you
(44:52):
we have the time and money to dothat because we're not paying
for actual classes for our children.
So yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people saying that they
travel. That's definitely a common
thread. And then one more.
Somebody else said, by the way, that their husband's getting
their PhD, not going to go that far, but he'll learn a new
(45:14):
language or something. The last thing that somebody
said was my partner and I volunteer a lot.
For me, a child free life is about seeing a broader picture
of what my legacy is. Not just my blood legacy, but
the legacy I'm leaving on the world.
I thought that was a beautiful thing.
Yeah. Because we volunteer.
(45:34):
We volunteer and so many people think about like, I want to
continue the family bloodline orI want to whatever, but there's
other ways to like leave something behind and I think
that that's really cool. Oh, so it's always like what?
Bloodline? Who cares?
Oh my God, the famous Wolschlager and Kusiel
bloodlines. Oh no, it's a.
(45:56):
It's a dynasty. It's a dynasty.
Yeah. Well, I think that about does it
for F1, yeah. Yeah, hopefully, you know,
hopefully you're still with us. And if not dink you very much, I
(46:18):
don't know. Is there?
I just want to know, like if anybody listening is finding out
for the first time that we're not having kids.
I highly doubt it. If they've listened before, I
think it's pretty clear. I like to think it's crystal
clear. I'll leave you with one more
thing. It is my dink tip of the week.
(46:39):
OK. And.
I part you by saying just because it's back to school
season doesn't mean that summer is over if you don't have kids.
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