Hit-Boy

Hip-hop super producer Hit-Boy has helped create some of the biggest hits of the last decade. His discography includes classic songs with Jay-Z and Kanye West, Travis Scott, Kendrick Lamar, Beyonce, and Rihanna. His crowning achievement however are the series of albums he's produced for Nas including King's Disease and Magic.

On today's episode Justin Richmond talks to Hit-Boy about how he recently introduced a new, but old, piece of equipment into his beat-making process. He also talks about the years-long process of making a beat on Beyonce's Renaissance, and he explains his creative process with Nas and how they have been able to lock in and create some of the best work of Nas's career.

You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite Hit-Boy songs HERE.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin for hit Boy, It's All in a Name, Niggas
in Paris by Jay Z and Kanye West, Sika Mode
by Travis Scott, Thick by Beyonce from her newest album Renaissance,
as well as songs from Frank Ocean, Rihanna, Kendrick Lamar,
and so many more. Hit Boy's production has powered some

(00:38):
of the biggest hits off the best projects over the
last decade, which makes it all the more remarkable that
his actual crowning achievement has nothing at all to do
with radio hits or the latest artists. But the thing
that ensures hit Boy's enshrinement and whatever hall of fame
exists twenty thirty years from now is dropping back to
back to back masterpieces with one of rap's most legendary figures,

(01:02):
Nas Nas just won his first Grammy a few years
back from his album King's Disease, a project that was
fully produced by hit Boy. Since then, they've gone on
to release together KD two, Magic and KD three, each
album better than the last. And as if all of
that in the span of a few years wasn't enough,

(01:22):
hit Boys also just released a new solo album as
a producer, rapper called Surf or Drown. I talked to
hit Boy on today's Broken Record about his new solo project,
how he's recently just introduced a new but old piece
of equipment into his beat making process, about growing up
in the ie just east of Los Angeles, and what

(01:42):
he learned from having an uncle in Troop, one of
the smoothest R and B groups of the eighties and nineties.
This is Broken Record liner notes for the Digital Age.
I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with hit Boy. How
you doing today, man, solid man.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, it's just on the move as usual. Yeah, you're busy,
It's non stop.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
How you keeping up? Man?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
I don't even know between being a dad and doing this.
It's just like you gotta just go push yourself. Man,
don't get burnt out like some I mean, you know,
it's just like just go.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah. Do you feel like you're in a creative zenith,
like at the top of your creative game at the moment, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
For sure, I'm taking it there. I'm definitely like. It's
just like I always wanted to be able to just
tap in and make pretty much any style of beat
that I wanted to at any given moment, and that's
like where I'm at now, Like I could just somebody
need a certain sound, or if I'm hearing something, I
could really like execute it a lot more than earlier

(02:48):
in my career. So that's exciting.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
But that was a goal early in the career.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Still, yeah, just like you know, I would get to
a certain point on my production and then kind of
get just stumped, don't what to do next. But now
it's like I made so many beats, so many songs,
it's just coming to me.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Can you think of something recently where before you might
have gotten stumped but you were able to move it forward.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Just beats in general, you know what I mean. I
can't think of a specific thing, but now and now
I also understand that you can build things over time.
They like before, like I used to overcrowd my beats,
and artists used to tell me, like, man, the beats
they dope. But at the same time, I don't know
where I could fit in because it's so much instrumentation,
a lot going on. So I just scaled it back

(03:31):
and now it's like, Okay, I can get a voice
on there that I could get inspired again and add
another sound and a breakdown and just something that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
At the right sound. Do you think I do that
your beats were maybe crowded for certain people before. Do
you think that maybe goes back to just when you
were just making beats just for yourself, Like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
For sure, definitely, you know. I mean I always made
beats with the intention of getting somebody on them, even
if it was just myself, because I was writing before
when you're learning to make beats, yeah, because I was
making songs before I was making beats. So I was
like trying to find something that made sense for me
or whoever else to get on, you know, but I
would so.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
You used to make a beats for you to get on. Yes,
you're tired of just wrapping over instrumentals from other people.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
I was in a group with a kid and he
made all the beats at first, so we did like
a few projects together. I'm like fourteen, fifteen years old,
you know what I mean. So by the time I
turned sixteen, we had made a couple of projects and
I just start playing with the fl studio at his
crib and was like, Yo, this is really like fun.
It's like a video game for me. Yeah, And I

(04:35):
just was like I just took a real liking to
it and kept pushing with it.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Did you do anything musically growing up and playing the
instruments or nah?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
But I was around a lot of music. Yeah. My
uncle Rodney B was in a group called Troop, And
I just saw the whole lifestyle, you know what I mean,
them being in the studio video shoots, the style, like
the music, the dance moves like it just the R
and B group. Yeah yeah, yeah, my uncle and my
my grandma started the group. She was managing them up

(05:05):
until they got signed, and like she really whipped them
into shape to like really like be focused on that level.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
She just always had a passion for music herself, and
well my uncle started getting to a certain age, she
just was like, you need to start a group, and
they started a group and they really went and had
a couple number ones and had some success.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
What was that like for you? Growing up? Seeing that crazy?

Speaker 2 (05:28):
It got me like on a focused level, I'm on now,
you know what I mean? Like I always just seen
like they it was doing it on a real level.
So I seen it. I seen everything, the whole lifestyle,
and I just was intrigued.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, for you at that time. Was hip hop the
thing where you were locked in on hip hop? Or
did you see that maybe even.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Think like, yeah, I mean what my uncle played all
type of music. So I heard Nwa, I heard Snoop,
I heard ice Cube, I heard just like all the
West Coast, you know, hip hop, but it was a
lot of R and B, B and played too, because
there was an R and B group. So just like
hearing them chord changes and just like really seeing the
musicality in it. That's kind of like what was hitting me.

(06:10):
But I didn't know exactly what it was, but it
was the emotion of the coors and the emotion of
the drum patterns and the groove and the feeling that
just was like I was downloading into my DNA and
downloading that DNA.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
And so now that you're making music, you started to
realize the things that you're attracted to and making music.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Somewhat come from that. Oh yeah, change for sure. I
mean me being able to do a music soul child album.
We just dropped Victims and Villains. That's literally because my
uncle used to play his first album over and over
and over, so I just like already knew kind of
where to take it, what I would want to hear
personally with just updating it to where it's at now.
But saw a lot of time when I'm making music,

(06:51):
I just like tap into that original emotion that I
would feel before I knew what it was.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
What was your first meeting with music?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Like? It was dope because he already had reached out
telling me he loved what I was doing with knaves, so.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
He just showed what NAS project had come at that
point when he reached out.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Magic, it was all all Katie won KT two and
Magic had come out, not KT three yet. Matter of fact, no,
Magic hadn't even come out. Magic was about to come out.
And because I remember playing him some of the music
and he was just like, Yo, this is crazy. Nobody
even knew he was doing it. But uh, when he
pulled up, it just was respect, you know. Yeah, And

(07:31):
I just had so many beats that fit into where
he wanted to go. It kind of was like an
easy process.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
But the intention wasn't necessarily to do a full record
together or what nah.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
He just was like, we need to tap in and
you know, work, see what happened, And after a while
you start getting eight, nine, ten, songs. It's like, nah,
this got to be the album.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
But that's probably happened before, right.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
No, I mean with Nas, I didn't plan on making
I mean four albums with him. I didn't even know
I was gonna make one album with him. He just
was coming to get some beats and we just kept working,
you know what I mean, he just kept pulling up.
It's something about the spot I'm in and just the
zone I'm in personally that makes artists want to keep
coming back. For the most part, the physical spot really

(08:13):
just physical spot work in childish studios.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, where is that?

Speaker 2 (08:19):
What's Hollywood? Not far from here? Like five minutes and
you just lock it out. Yeah. I've been there going
on five years and now, yeah, this is August, it'll
be five years. I've been in that studio and I've
just been making a lot of progress. It's kind of
like a homey type of situation, Like it kind of
reminds me of me making beats in my bedroom at

(08:39):
my mom crib. And I feel like that's what is
attractive about it, Like it's not like some to my
three year old, see three, it just makes it real
comfortable to come record, yeah, versus like this big room
that's got the lights all on and it's all stero.
It's like, nah, you're coming in. It's like man, it's

(09:00):
like almost like being at somebody crib.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah. Right, that's taking taking a back, yeah for sure.
So surfer drown First of all, what's the title surfer DROWND?

Speaker 2 (09:11):
I mean, I had went through some heavy stuff just
in the game, you know what I mean, just in life.
You know, we all got to figure out whether we're
gonna surf for drown, but just especially the music industry,
I feel like I've been to the mountaintop. I've been
around the amazing artists and like, you know, getting that
respect and then the flip side, you know, trying to

(09:32):
figure it out. Like you know, I could have literally
drowned and just like either quit music or like I've
been in situations to where some people wouldn't even wanted
to be alive no more, you know what I mean,
just like kind of felt like you lost it all
and not getting the respect, not getting the replies from people,
not getting the same you know energy you was, And
I really like pulled myself about it at you know

(09:53):
what I mean. I used to have a hundred people
around me. Then it flipped to having nobody around the
day that I found out I had like zero dollars
in my account, which was like six years ago after
having millions, nobody was there. Nobody was around, you know
what I mean. This was like, Wow, when you get
into it, they gonna be there, and when you not,

(10:13):
they not gonna be there. So it's like you gotta
look inside yourself. And that's where the whole Surf for
Drown concept came from. Like in surf Club is my
that's my label, that's my click. That's since I was
seventeen years old, been pushing surf Club And that's just
kind of a play on that too.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, how did you get surf Club out of it? Were
you in Fontana on that?

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I was in Fontana, Yeah, it was. It's crazy because
I was at the Ontario Mills with the Homie Chili
Chill with be Care and a couple other people this
like two thousand and five, went to the Hollister store
at Ontario Mills at the mall bought these all. We
all bought that these kind of like matching similar sweaters
and mindset surf Club on it, and we all kind

(10:54):
of collectively was like, Yo, that should be the click
name surf Club. It just sounded hard. So we just
ran with it from there, and you know, it's like
we've always gotten respect as far as that name goes. Man.
Like you can hear like Drake shouting it out on
multiple songs and just people that like really they understand
like the legacy of it that if you really tapped
in on it.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Tapp into your vibe. Even hearing no shout out like
the ie after the like what crazy far it's crazy?

Speaker 2 (11:23):
People hit me at me on ig and be like, yo,
hit I love this. I E Weather. I'm like, that's crazy, y'all.
Now just put that in the spectrum somebody from Queens,
New York, Queen's Bridge, just like you just never know
how it's gonna come together.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Man, It's insane. Man. Yeah, did you ever feel like
quitty like that point when you're at zero.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Dollars that and before that and so many times, man,
just like dealing with the game and getting to know yourself,
knowing how this works, like knowing who you got around you, Like, yeah,
it all can be like emotionally like heavy, but I
love music so much.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Well, what's the part of it that's like the unintended
stuff that something in it for the music.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
But it's like, like, so I signed a publishing deal
when I was one year out of high school with
you know, by this time, you know, my uncle was
popping late eighties, early nineties. This is two thousand and six,
two thousand and seven. He can't really give me the guidance.
I don't really have that many people that I can,
you know, get so like I signed a deal that
I'm still into this day right now. So I'm talking

(12:25):
about I'm thirty five, about to be thirty six next month,
and I've been in the deal since I was nineteen,
So that alone, it's been like a mental thing. It's
been just like you know, I got to see so
many people like who didn't sign you know, crazy deal
come up after me and be kind of like looked
at in a different light, revered in a different light

(12:46):
when it's like I actually got the discography just the
way things been structured, Like you know, I'm still waiting
to get out that deal and even just like live
on the level that I should be living on, you
know what I mean, which I'm living great, I'm living beautiful.
I'm blessed all that, but there's more like I see,
you know what it's gonna be, what it can be?

Speaker 1 (13:04):
How much longer does that deal run?

Speaker 2 (13:07):
I mean, it's supposed to be an earn out deal now,
which just got renegotiated. And when you say so versus
like me having to have, like I had an MDRC deal,
which is like, you know, it's percentages and once you
add up, they'll find some other way to make it
not really count as what it's supposed to be in
black and white and that's just all contractual just you know,

(13:30):
wordage and stuff like that. But yeah, now it's like,
I mean, I should have hopefully two years in this
deal left.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
You know, and it's a publishing deal.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Publishing deal, right, yeah, yeah, So that's like, you know,
that's just like a part of what can weigh you
down at times when you talking to lawyers and they're like, yo,
this is the worst contract I've ever seen. That. That's
not something as a creative you want to hear, especially
when you did that deal so premature, so young, so
just new to everything going on, Like I didn't expect

(14:00):
me to still be in a deal that I signed
from then, you know, It's like I didn't even find
out that it was a bad deal until I made
a hit, which was I got signed oh seven. I
didn't make a real, real hit, top radio hit until
like twenty eleven in Paris. Yeah, exactly. I found out
after Niggas in Paris dropped and I was like, okay,
so where's the real, real money. And they're like, oh, well,

(14:23):
you signed to this contract, so you know it's not
gonna be the way you thought it was gonna be.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
So who was getting the money?

Speaker 2 (14:29):
I mean, it's just like not that I'm not getting
the money from that song, it's just more so like
you know how some people are making hit and it's
like going viral or whatever the case, they'll go be
able to negotiate a new deal or something, get five
ten million dollars or something like that. But I've never
been able to do that with you know, even after

(14:50):
making hits that should have allowed me to hit in exactly.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
That's crazy. Yeah, given you've been locked into something that's
felt so I mean beyond restrictive felt, it's felt.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah. Even just talking about this right now, though, like
that brought me to this place, because you know, you
get to a point where you want to do this.
You want to just like get the singles and you
want to like be have every song just be niggas
in pairs perform at ten twelve times, Like it's not
gonna all be that. So I got to this point
where it's like I got to find out how to
get my respect in another way, which was like it's

(15:25):
a blessing to work with nas And so.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Was that intentional or do you think that just happened?

Speaker 2 (15:29):
It was a mixture of both, you know what I mean,
was just like trying to figure it out and then
understanding like Okay, if I somebody like Benny the Butcher,
Big Sean, Naves Music, Soul Child, one of them come through,
I gotta lock in on a different level. I can't
let them leave. I gotta like have so much heat
that it's like, nah, bro, I'm rocking with you.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, it just took me.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
To that level.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Did did anyone guide you to that thinking? Or like did
you kind of have to get.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Through watching the game seeing just it was more so
just watching.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
You feel like early on you had mentors in the
production game.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, of course, Like I got signed to Polo to
Don and he was doing big pop records and doing
big R and B songs and rap songs too, and
got to see the game at a high level. And
even though even if he like didn't directly tell me
exactly ABC what to do, I watched it. I watched him,
I watched his ups in his downs. Just like even

(16:21):
learning from my interaction with people. Gotta just like treat
everybody decently because you don't know who's gonna become who's
going to listen. I knew so many people, Drake, Frank Ocean, Tyler,
the Creator, Kendrick Lamar, like knew these people before they
blew up. So it's like you just gotta, like you

(16:42):
you gotta understand that anybody it can turn up for them.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
So did you have good relationships with them?

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah, for sure, show Yeah, but just in general, you know,
just like just like learning and uh, that got me
to this place where it's like I feel like I
get more respect for doing these albums than doing a
big giant single. People look at me different now, people
understand like, oh, he's he's not one of those you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
He Like, seriously, it's really hard to get people to
concentrate on a project like a full project, man, and
to have multiple now like the two out this year.
The not I mean like just to have so now
like a whole body of just like actual projects. It's
not just like Niggas in Paris or Click, which are
great records, but like to actually now have like this,

(17:27):
it puts you in a in my mind, and a
different stature of producer, you know.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
One million percent. Man, It just makes people respect what
you do more. I feel like, man, cause like I've
had big radio songs and didn't get nowhere near this revered, respected, honor,
you know what I mean like, And that's like it's
just a mental thing too, Like you can't really get
caught up in thinking that the name or the massive

(17:54):
success of something that's going really lock people into what
exactly who you are and what your brand is. You
got to just make them waves and make them plays
that make them respecting on a different level. It's not
always going to be the like I put out an
artist a song, a big name artist this year, and
then I put out a song with Alchemists, and a
song with Alchemist who is a less you know, lesser

(18:15):
no name than this guy. Blew that shit out the water.
So it's like you know, you just you know, you
can't get caught up in just none of the industry
tactics and thinking that, oh it's gonna be this way,
Oh it's.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Gonna be think with this person just because that's this song.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Gonna be successful just because you know it's it. Don't
work like that.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
You can't game it like that. How much of you
going from like you know you at a high school.
You sound like a deal. You're still locked into bad
deal to now been around nos like, have you picked
up on some of his the way he thinks about
his team too.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, for sure, I pick up on just like how
to be a solid person, you know what I mean.
He ain't never the loudest in the room. He ain't
never gotta make itself seem like something like he just
is who he is. So it's like I'm already personally
that type of person too, But I learned even more, like, bro,
just be humble, do what you do. You're gonna get
the respect you deserve when you work for it, you

(19:06):
know what I mean? So I just learned just like
on some life shit being around him, and obviously business too,
like he's doing his thing and it's just like you
have no choice. If you're really there and being attentive
and you want to learn, you're gonna pick up on it.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah. Man, we have to pause for a quick break.
When we're back, you'll hear all about hit boys beat
making philosophy. We're back with more of my conversation with
hit Boy. When you started making beats on FL studio,
which you still use, right.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
I do. Yeah, that's why I just implemented NPC live
and to I still use FL. I just record what
I'm doing on live into FL and that's like been
making my process even easier with making beats because it's
funny because FL is like a lot of people that
use it know that, like sometimes you have latency problems.
So I really have been working with latency for ten

(20:00):
twelve years.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Like little working with that lag for yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
So it's like I'm kind of like better than I
even think I am, because now that I want a
NPC and am feeling stuff in real time, I'm just like,
oh man, it's just so much easier.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
So how did you account for the latency for the
lag all those years?

Speaker 2 (20:16):
I just did it so much that it just kind
of became regular to me, normal to me?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Did it impact or sound? You think?

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Who knows? This put me in his own where it's like,
you know, I'm really working on this beat, Like I'm
putting work into this beat.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
You know when did you decide to start incorporating the NPC.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Just like four months ago? It's like recently I got
the Supreme NPC Live NAS actually bought it for me,
and I was just one day like me, I need
to crack this open, matter of fact. No, my homeboy,
James Fauntleroy, writer extraordinary legendary artists all that he was,
came by and played me some beats that he had

(20:56):
made on the NPC Live and he was like, bro,
you gotta get on this. And then that's when I
cracked it up. And maybe a week later or a
few days later, and I'm like, yo, this is fun.
It makes the process way more even fun, you know
what I mean? I already have fun while I'm making beats.
But that's like make it almost like a cheat.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Cold did not give it to you for you to
make beats on or was it sort of just like hey, you're.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Just like it's a dope piece, Like even if I
never opened it like I probably could have sold it
for however much, you know what I mean, But I'm like, nah,
I gotta, I gotta get it in.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
So have you made anything yet with NPC that you
feel like is gonna make it to a project.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah? Yeah, for sure already, Yeah for sure. Like I
don't play like my I look at myself like a
department store, like a just like a store for real,
Like when you come through, you're gonna find something, whether
it's the jacket, the shirt, maybe the whole outfit, the shoes, something,
You're gonna find something that works for what you're doing.
Nine times out of ten are just like kind of like,

(21:53):
let me just keep cranking out product and it's like
the latest stuff I do. I make sure I play
it for the artist that's coming to work with me,
and it just kind of always connects some ow.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Are the artists that you ever make something for where
you feel like you you seek them out to show
them some certific like this could really work for this person.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, I mean, especially more early in my career like now,
I mean, well, if I know I'm not locked in
with Knaves, I'm gonna getting that zone. Like after we
do three four records. Like it's like, okay, some switches
in my brain where it's like I know where to
take it for the rest of the time on to
keep it in this linear thing but still be dynamic.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
So you still locked in with knas.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
I'm super locked in. We was in the studio last night,
probably gonna be in the studio after we're done with
this podcast. Man, it's just like we're just like it's honestly,
I feel like we're still working on the first album.
Like it's just been like a progressive thing. Like I've
seen people work on albums for five six years, and
if we were just now about to come out the album,
people would just like be even more mind blown because

(22:55):
the progress. But it was good that we, you know,
have been just making the projects, dropping them. We're getting
this live feedback, we getting all this support, all this respect.
He's up my respect level just in music in general.
And people look at him it's like, you know, like, Wow,
you can age gracefully. You could still keep it hip hop,

(23:16):
you can still keep it fresh, still cutting edge, modern
at you know what I'm saying. Whatever age, And it's
not even about that, It's just about what.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
You guys are doing is timeless. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Man, It's crazy. I gotta say, like, I think jay
Z did that similar thing with four four four made
it feel like you don't have to be the newest
the artist to make something that that resonats, impacts and vibrates,
but you guys did it. KD, KD two, Magic, KD three,
And to have every project be flawless really a point

(23:53):
where it's like like those are just so next level incredible,
Like how to you even choose one? That's like it's
like it's like having three ematics, you know.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Man. Yeah, I just seen somebody on Twitter say something
about the first KD and I'm like, damn, we have
some on there. It was like a different And I
feel like we every song we make is like a
real song with some type of structure, some type of
you know, it might be a new way of thinking
about it, but it's just like something that's gluing it
together as an actual song, you know what I mean.

(24:23):
And I feel like we've progressed into like really him
just digging into that bag of just getting raps off,
but still keeping a structure to where people can enjoy
the song and it's not just three minutes are rapping
like you still got to hook you still. But he
just like just flashed back like and took it to
a place that people of what people really want to
hear from him?

Speaker 1 (24:43):
How are the concepts coming up? Like I'm thinking off
this newer phone like Michael and Quincy like that, that's
just a concept.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
He actually uh had that idea for a little minute,
like for probably like some months, and he would just
talk about it. I didn't know exactly what because I
feel like most people would have just sampled either some
off thriller or off the wall or just something that
kind of like was a similar aesthetic to those. But

(25:09):
we took it left field and had like the break
beat with the dirty acoustic bass and then the horns
and chord changes and just like you know, really having
fun with it.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
So we had the concept for a minute, but there
wasn't a beat attached.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
To it or yeah, because I was thinking about how
they approach it, Like I never want to be surface
level and just be like, Okay, cool, I'm gonna go
sample a quincy.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
So easy thing to do, just sample body heat or something.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Right, Yeah, No, it's like just come with a new
wave Damn.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, did you grow up a NAS fan? Like growing
up on the West Coast. I grew up on the
West Coast. NAS was respected. I respected NAS always, but
it wasn't the thing that I was always hearing coming right.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
You know, man, that's funny because I just was having
this conversation with somebody just about how like things are
marketed in the way people look at things, you know
what I mean. I always had a super major respect
for NAS, but working with him and digging into his discography,
listening to how the albums was sequenced, Like I listened

(26:15):
to all his intros, like just back to back to
back to back, just trying to capture that that energy,
and I really got more of an appreciation for who
he really is and what he's contributed to music in general,
you know what I mean. So I always had major
respect for him, but I just like grew to really
understand like, oh, this this dude is, you know what
I mean? Because I was on the West Coast, so

(26:36):
it wasn't as much other than the hits I following
with the world and stuff like that will play on
the radio all the time, you know what I mean.
But I didn't like, you know, my family super West Coast,
so they didn't just have his albums on repeat. But
I did have friends who, you know, you know, if
I was the jay Z guy, I got a homeboy
who was the NAS guy, and we've back and forth

(26:56):
takeover ether or whatever, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
And that's just like, I don't know, like probably sounds
like for you too. For me, that like both of
them didn't enter my my world as like beloved beloved
artists until like that that beef time, like eat and
take a ri et cetera. But like you know, like
Ellmatic when you talk to anyone from New York, that's
just like hands down easily. But it's like for me,
it's like, I.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Mean, ninety four death Row was going insane out here,
so it's no rially like swallowing that up. Yeah, you know,
but I get it now though, I get it. And
his longevity just speaks to you know what he's always
been like he been doing this since he was sixteen seventeen.
For him to be forty nine, it's just like still

(27:37):
rapping at a high level, projecting his voice at the
highest levels.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
His voice sounds I think the best it's ever sounded crazy.
So when when you guys are in sessions, will you
guys discuss his approach on the song, like the way
he's attacking a song a beat or his kick.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Like yeah, I mean it's both ways. Sometimes I'll come
in and you know, I might be like, yo, you
should you should start rapping at this bar, like it
might not it might not be the one, or it
might be just like a off place, and then I
just let him just take get from there, and he
usually spark another idea for me, like like sometimes with
the hooks, he'll record something and I'll just take the

(28:16):
last word or what he said or last line, the
way he said fly back and kind of just structure
a hook and then let him finish it out and
it just makes it easy wherever he going, I'm going,
and we just making it work.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
So you'll structure a hook out of something that he
may be intended as a verse exactly. I heard stories
about Dre doing that for like Snoop back on, like
the chronic and doggy style, Like Snooper would just freestyle
something be like but it intended like that's the verse,
but it'd be like.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
It's about that pocket the way it's hitting the pocket.
Just like as a producer or whoever, if you're a songmaker,
you will just hear certain things that maybe the artists
not paying attention to. And it's like, I'm trying to
take advantage of all this shit. This is not like.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
That's your job to hear what they're looking to it.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
He opened to my ideas, so and that's that's that's
where I'm empowered, just like him being able to see
my vision when it when I play a beat, it
the beating, I might not even be all the way done.
But if I'm excited about something and I got a
chord structure or some drums and put it together, and
like he down to write to it, he down to
wrap on it.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Just that baseline like unfinished. Yeah, kernel of an idea.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
That's it because most you know, especially now in the
New age, they if it don't sound like the top
of rap Caviard the number one song, some like artists
won't even pay attention to it. They don't want to
build and really like make a song. Most a lot,
not most, but a lot of artists.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, I mean that's probably that's a real vulnerable place
for you to be as a producer.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, earlier in my career, like I'll sit there and
just go through as many beats as it took. But
now it's like, man, if we gotta go past maybe
five beats, we probably you just go find another producer. Well,
we'll reconvene. Just come pull back up on me and
we'll lock in when it's time, you know, Because I
feel like, if if I'm gonna have an artist come in,

(30:01):
I'm gonna play them something that I can hear them
on and if we not on the same wavelength, and
that just is what it is.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, the Rihanna joint you did on Anti, that one,
that was one that it took a while, right, I did.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Two on Anti po's and the song Woo, and that
was that was a build, that was a process. I
had the basis of it though. When we sat down.
I was in a room with Travis Scott the Weekend
Tire Dollar Sign and the Dream and I just had
my UH had to contact UH sort of NPC and

(30:33):
I was just playing with them guitar stabs and just
came up with that pattern and everybody in the room
just when crazy start humming melodies and writing to it,
and it just got built out progressively.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
That's got to be a hell of feeling to have
that room start vibing on what's your play?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah? I just remember like weekend seeing melodies, Travis coming
up with his wave and it came together.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
But it wasn't Rihanna session, so you knew whatever was
for that project for sure. Okay, Okay, a couple of
songs from the last few Nods records I want to
talk about just to having Premiere cut on Wave, Guys.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
That was ill. That's because it was like a collective thing.
Like when Rocky came through to do his verse, he
was like, Yo, we should get Premiere to scratch on this,
and it was like yo, me and Nas was low
key already kind of thinking like that. So it just
made sense.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Who hit Premiere?

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Oh that had to be. Nas just tapped in with
him and he did it off the love you know
what I mean, just went in and made it sound
like authentic Premiere vibes.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Did you have any notes on it? Nah? Then it
was solid one take. So you do E p m D.
How did the epm D concept for the Ryan Coogler
film Judas and Juice. Yeah, Judas a Black Man sida,
how did how did that concept come up? For that?

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I just had to beat and uh Nas walking the
stew I was playing it loud and he just start
coming up with flows and then set the EPM D
line and just went from there. We just built it
out and uh it was four or Kate King's Disease too,
like that was supposed to be a record on there.
It ended up being a remix on King's Disease Too,

(32:16):
but the original was just it was supposed to be
for the album. And uh I was involved in Judis
and the Black messide kind of like heavily on the
executive production side. So I actually put a record on
my own with me rapping on their call broad Day.
They was just like, yo, we need more records. I'll
just start submitting joints and EPMD. They was like this
is perfect and they ended up doing the video and

(32:39):
all that.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
That's amazing, But to them, when did you guys decide
do you want to still keep it for the record.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
We just love the joint and uh Nas I guess
was uh I forgot how the eminem thing came about,
but he just was like, man, we should throw eminem on.
It reached out to him. He did the joint quick,
you know what I mean, hopped on it. Uh EPMD
didn't even know that Eminem was on it until it

(33:05):
was about to drop, you know what I mean. So
that was an ill moment, just like it all coming
together and everybody from their own air just getting they respect.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's one of those records man, where it's like, again,
that's why these projects are so incredible. Man, like just
getting premiere on that magic joint. But when you have.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Warren Hill on KD two, yeah, you know what I mean,
that's something like Okay, as a producer, you just like,
don't first of all, she don't even like rap like
that much, no.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
More, don't anythings.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Just like for me to like have a premiere Lauren
Hill rap verse on one of my beats, that's just ill.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, when's the last time you heard of Lauren Hill verse?
Like a new Lauren Hill.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
She went in, she went in and for bars, bars,
like she was like two verses put in the one.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
How did that come up?

Speaker 2 (33:51):
They just cool Nas and Lauren Hill. So through them talking,
I guess they they wanted to do a joint and uh,
when we made the song, Nas was like this this
is the one. We gotta put Lauren on it.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Did he have his verse already?

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah he did, he did, He had his verse and
sent it over and she literally did. She did it
within days.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Like did you think it was really gonna happen?

Speaker 2 (34:14):
I didn't personally, but it just like came together. Man.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
It was ill again, even the resisting the temptation to
do the obvious, which would be to do like if
I ruled the world too.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
You know that concept was dope for her too, because
she do be on her you know, nobody was just
like out the way type vibe as far as I
can see. And yeah, it just brought the concept all the.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Way home, did she? And she recorded it, She recorded.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
In her own space but sent the vocals in and yeah,
it was just a moment. What about Death Row East,
Death Row East? That was the first song we did
for KD too. Man, that set the tone, Like that
concept is powerful. It's a moment that a lot of people,
a lot of Internet talk, a lot of podcasts, people
telling their recollection of what happened at Brian Park between

(35:04):
Knaves and Park and Death Row and Na's click and
he just beha was straight like POV of what really happened.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
How much was death Row and POC and Johnny J.
And how much is that like all part of your consciousness?

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, I downloaded that DNA from just hearing it all
the time. Like that was like massive on a commercial
level in underground like everybody rock with the Death Row
stuff like Snoop Pop all that, and doing that song,
I just was like, man, I need to like tap
into as much as I can as far as like
pot producers go. And then I just like already watched

(35:38):
like documentaries and stuff on Johnny J. And I was like,
that's the producer I need to channel the most on
this song.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
What made you feel that?

Speaker 2 (35:45):
Because it just reminded me of a Tupac beat like
death Row type of vibe, like that melodic kind of
guitar stuff with the groove over it. It just yeah,
it had that energy.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
It's an incredible beat. Man. Appreciate the locking in with
NAS for those records you locked in with Soul Child.
It's really rare these days, and it's funny, like I
guess it maybe it goes back to even el Maati
when like Not's having all those incredible producers. This first
record really kind of seemed to popularize like having a
bunch of different producers on your record, but yeah, what

(36:17):
you're doing now is rare.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Man appreciate that, yeah, I mean yeah, it just that's
the flip side of that. Now it's like he started
off working with just all different bunch of different producers.
Now you've been locked in with me for three years,
and it's like, don't seem like we stopping no time soon?
Like we really having fun with it.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
So where are you finding the time? Then? So you know,
within thirteen months, it's Katie two, it's Magic, It's Kati three,
and now you're out with your own record right surf
for Drunks and the soul child record music, so Child record, Like,
how like where are you finding the time?

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Man? I just got to just go just like don't
don't don't not to say don't think, but just like
really any type of energy that I can put into
being in the studio and just progressing with my sound
and just helping other artists. I'm on that. You know,
this is what I worked for to have artists trusted

(37:13):
me on this level. Now that I got that, it's
like I gotta like really hold that up high and
take advantage of this, like these opportunities.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
How natural does rhyming still come to? Does writing and performing?

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Man, this is like getting so much easier, I would say,
just because I've been in the studio with people like
Big Sean, like with you know what I'm saying. I
executive produced Detroit two for Big Sean, did a project
called what You Expect a ep whim. I mean being
around Benny the Butcher, I produced you know, his album
Burdening Proof in twenty twenty that was like, you know,

(37:50):
just kind of heavy on the underground and working with
nas Man, I'm working with some top tiered artists.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Some of the most premier.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
I'm like, you know, they watching and being fans and studying,
you know, just as far as what I'm doing on
the production, and I'm doing the same on the artist,
And so that's just helping me cultivate a whole just
next level with myself.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Have you always been writing on the side.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, for sure. I always been dropping projects, dropping singles,
just like you know, That's always been my passion. But
it's like the beat making aspect of it is so
much fun to me that I just took a liking
to it. You know what I mean. I feel like
if I would have been chasing trying to be an
artist all these years, who knows, you know, it could
have worked out, couldn't have. But now it's like I

(38:37):
have an ultimate cheat code, Like I could see the
studentmate and make songs all day. As soon as one
of the greatest artists living, you know, lead a studio,
whoever that may be. You know what I mean, I'm
able to start recording my own stuff. They didn't left
that energy in the studio. I watched them put bars
and lines together, and you know, it's just like it's
just helping me with my own structure.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
That's incredible, man, that you that you're able to sit
there and watch the people at the best of the best.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, and having just like the mind to want to,
you know, look at it a different way, like I'm
in there really trying to learn. I'm trying to get
better every day, like I ain't wasting no time.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
We're gonna take one last quick break and then come
back with the rest of my conversation with hit Boy.
We're back with hit Boy. How is it being around
as a producer MC? How is it being around yay
in the in your good music years.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
When I first moved to Atlanta after that sign I
did with Polo that was like my college years, and
like the years with Kanye was like the Oh, I
got a job that's at a high level, but I
gotta still learn, you know what I mean. I still
got a lot of learning to do, like understanding like
this thing moves quick, and you have to move fast.
You gotta be efficient. You gotta be on top of

(39:55):
it at all times. And that's really what that taught me,
Like you gotta be putting like he was sleeping in
the stool, like wake up, saying close, start recording, start whatever,
like chopping up samples. I'm just like that's the level.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah, It's almost like yeah, seen, I haven't watched that
Genius documentary and just seeing some footage or yeah in
the studio almost reminds you, like when you see those
little clips of like Poc in the studio, like it's
just the energies on on a hundred, like there's there's
work to do, Like let's do the world.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Like he ain't he's not in there playing and he
ain't gonna be nice about it. He's not gonna be
polite talking softly. He's gonna let you know, like you
fucking up, like like do this shit the right way
type shit? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Did you ever catch that wrath?

Speaker 2 (40:38):
The first time I sat down to make a beat
with him was the song lift Off. I watched the Throne.
He had me trying some drums and some other instrumentations.
This is when I don't think I had ever really
got a session from nobody, and they told me to
basically rework it and strip things away. Like he kept
telling me to strip these these drums away, but I

(40:58):
couldn't really understand exactly how he was saying it. So
he started kind of firing up on me to where
I had to really look at them. I'm like, we
just met, homie, you know what I mean. Like so
it's like yeah, but that just like taught me, like nah, Broy,
I remember his exact words. I just kept forgetting to
mute the drums or something was going on, and he
was like, these drums are gonna be the death of me.

(41:21):
Like I just remember. I'm like, it's that series broke.
I'm like that's crazy, you know what I mean? But
you know that's his passion. That's why he got twenty
something Grammys or however many and his respected on that
level is because he don't he not playing.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
You don't seem like the kind of person that ever
like be like that. But have you moved from that time?
Have you moved closer on the spectrum of like just
sort of more relaxed to like.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Oh, yeah, for sure we didn't have our We've been
super cool. I mean we ain't in contact like that
right now, but I.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Mean, like creatively for you, like, have you moved closer
towards that like kind of almost perfectionist kind of vibe
in his studio way?

Speaker 2 (42:00):
In all way, I'm just like a much more chill
personality than he is. Yeah, even though we both geminis,
he a June Jemina may be and Biggie got the
same birthday. Wow, And yeah, but I definitely like, you know,
shit gotta get done.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, when Niggas and Paris became what it became, Yeah,
what was that feeling like for you?

Speaker 2 (42:21):
It was ill because Kanye had been telling me like
through emails because I was the one song I didn't
hear off the album. I had heard most of them songs,
and I had heard like the song I had did
other songs that I was excited about that I'm thinking
gonna be on Watch the Throne. None of them may
made it anywhere, and Niggas in Paris was the one
random beat out of maybe sixty seventy beats I had

(42:43):
sent Kanye through email and he somehow pulled it up
when it was in Paris and they must have been
lit vibing and played it and it just turned them up.
So yeah, but he was I hadn't linked back with him,
like for like a month and a half, two months.
I was out in Cali, he was in Paris and wherever.
And when I went to they had the listening party

(43:04):
at the Observatory in New York, crazy like stars on
the ceiling and all that, playing the album super loud.
He brought in some crazy speakers and I just like
the first two songs played got to Niggas in Paris.
Everybody in observatory stood up. DJ Kyler was next to
me and just everybody was vibe and just like, oh,
this is the one right right. So I'm like, man, yeah,

(43:29):
it just worked out. Damn yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
As a young producer at the time, that really being
your first, like you called it, earlier, first real big hit.
Did that put pressure on you? On? Do pressure on you?
Or did it make you feel like now everything's going
to be hit? Or what? Did it?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Man? It's all that all the above, you know what
I mean, That's how I got to that point to
where you know, I had to had that surfer drown moment.
I was from niggas in pairis to that. I was
twenty eleven to twenty seventeen, just was like this all
the way until it got you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Really feel that way?

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, I do personally just on just just for this.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
You're still making good records and all that exactly.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Still making records like you know, Sorry even came out
twenty fifteen sixteen off Lemonade, and you know, I'm working
with these people, but I'm seeing the way I'm not
getting the respect I'm not getting I'm getting. You know,
I look on Twitter, I watched I pay attention to socials.
I pay attention. I'm looking at what people saying, like
where hit boy, Yeah, hey boy fell off? Here boy?
This hey boy? That mind you? It was like I
got records that's been recorded with you know, jay Z

(44:29):
and Beyonce on them and I've you know, got stuff
with Travis Scott and all that, but it's like the
niggas in pair of situation definitely, like just like was
a crazy ride because like I attracted you know, different
label deals and stuff like that that I was able
to get a lot of money from but didn't know
what to do with it, didn't know how to move,
didn't know I had to have the right infrastructure in

(44:50):
the right you know, just team around me and all that.
And that's what was the learning curve. That was the
you're gonna have to give this back to the game
to get it back triple, you know what I mean.
And UH just kind of programmed myself to you know,
cause it's like after that, you want to chase that,
and then you start to feel like, damn, this song
being performed ten times, this song ain't played all day

(45:11):
on the radio, so I fell off or whatever the
case is. You want to chase that feeling, but you
can't do that. You gotta understand that everything is gonna
have his space. Like me and NAS and granted we
haven't really pushed for this. We ain't had no giant
you know, radio record or nothing like that, but I
get way more respect off of anything I ever did
on radio, off this not all.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Those things feel so much bigger than any like radio play, crazy,
like bigger than any of that. It's insane. Yeah, or
other rappers from Naz's era, are they looking at you
in any way to thinking that they can replicate?

Speaker 2 (45:48):
So, I mean, oh yeah, I had a few people
reach out, but it's like it gotta be right, you
know what I mean. Like I worked on I mean,
even Game is like after NAS obviously, but just like
from that era of like real super hardcore rap. I
did like six songs on Dramatic for Game. Yeah, just
like I feel like that was a I mean it's

(46:08):
like he based kind of Dramatic off Illmatic, So it's
like he definitely was inspired by Bro and I was
just able to, like, you know, have it all come
full circle because I had worked with him before in
the past.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Do you want to do more R and B?

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (46:22):
For sure?

Speaker 2 (46:22):
I mean Bro, I mean, I don't know what a
like playlist they'll be putting, like Don Tyler Wrenn, But
I gotta look at him as a singer, you know
what I mean. I did two songs on his album,
did a single on his last album as well. So
you know, I'm doing these projects, but I'm also still
getting my joints off and working with different artists. Did
something on the Beyonce album. Even though I was like electronics,

(46:43):
she still is like, you know on some Queen R
and B.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Hey, Danny, can you play play Thick.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
In the car and take you back to them?

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Are you in the studio Beyonce when she's recording this.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
I was in the studio to play her to beat
and I heard some early ideas. But this song was
made and what the beat was made in twenty fourteen,
so it went through a whole transformations. I don't even
remember what the original concept. I don't even know if
it was the thick concept, but she flushed it out
and turned it into a joint. And I actually got

(47:23):
the link with her before the album came out, heard
some joints, heard she played me this final version, and
I was like, man, it's just like crazy that you
know it took eight years for this to become what
it is now?

Speaker 1 (47:35):
All right, man, I was just gonna say because from
the time I've heard that, I was trying to imagine you.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Like watching her record.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Jay be in the room, Like, yeah, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Watch I didn't watch her record that, but I have
seen her record.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Before I was watching Beyond record.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
It is what you're think it is. This is you
know what I mean, like real genius level, real thought
out getting a song and just like doing it the
exact way that the person you know might have gave
it to her eyes like she gonna flip something and
move parts around and really like she gets like a producer, writer,
artists all that.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah, so that was so you made that twenty fourteen.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Right, I made the beat twenty fourteen with the bridge
and all that, with the chord changes I played and yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
And back then, did you know it was going to
be more of like a dance oriented.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
No, that was that was that was way back because
we had recorded a lot of songs back then. That
was the one that saw the light of day eight
years later.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Wow, that's that's wild.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, it wasn't like definitely not no electronic or like
you know that type of way back then.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
But it's incredible that you also, like, I mean, you've
talked about it a couple of times here, and it's
it's something it's actually something I didn't think about too
much until I was listening to your new record and
I was listening to Slipping in the Darkness, which again
I thought was gonna be a sample Slipping in the Darkness, Right,
you don't go for the obvious, but remember I think,
all right, that's gonna be that sample. Put an on

(49:04):
belts not and then the beat flips. That's the different beat.
Later I realized it is Alchemist and you I don't
know if it's on some friendly shit or like what
you call out a couple of producers. Right, But in
a way, that to me was like interesting, like you're like, yeah,
you could, you could do this, but can you chop soul?
You could do? I heard you without eight away.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Just asked questions and said what I personally haven't heard,
Like these dudes could have one hundred boomback beats in
the stash that I just ain't heard. But I just
made a statement saying that, you know, that's the sound
I haven't heard from them. But look at Magic, look
at or go to Travis Scott, go to Kanye West.
You're gonna hear every sound for me. You know.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
The questioning though, it was brilliant because it really made
me think about I was like that, like you really
can do so many different things, Like I guess I
knew it.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
It was more so like kind of like that too,
like just promoting my versatility, promoting you know, and just
kind of like carving a laying out for myself, like
y'all gotta really pay attention. And that's what's been so
tough for me, is like making a song like Troe
for Drake and then making something for you know whoever.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
It's just like it's one train for a sex.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
It's hard for you to connect that just generally, you
know what I mean, Just and just on a human level,
it's just like not easy to keep up with a
lot of shit. So if I'm all over the place,
it's like, you know, hit Boy isn't the household name
because of that, And that's what I feel like, you
know what I mean. And now it's like getting more
to that point. But I had to create a linear thing,

(50:35):
which is now me just doing albums for people. None
of the beats sound the same on the albums, but
you know I did them, so it just connects with
the brain a lot more.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
And that's one thing that also makes I think you
doing a full album work also is that it doesn't
necessarily sound like one producer like from Like it doesn't
sound like the same bag of tricks every song you
know or whatever. It's like, oh, every song sounds varied.
It sounds like there's a lot of movement musically throughout
the records.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Having fun, man taking advantage and just like I said,
like I always tapping my younger self, like, man, if
I had this opportunity, however long ago before I got on,
like I would have wanted to mash out. So I
need to keep that same energy.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
That has got to be crazy for your younger self
to be for records and with NAS many collaborations with
Beyonce and Drake and.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yeah, I was on beyonce last three albums. It's like, man,
whatever she's seeing me like, I appreciate it because it's
like she'd been she'd pulled me in, like Beyonce album,
the Lemonade album and then the Renaissance.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
And these are records that people are gonna be not
just listening to, but like studying for decades. Yeah you
know what I mean. They're not like fly by Night records.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Right, Yeah, it's beautiful man for show. Shout out to her.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
When people go back and look at Prince Records and
analyze every little thing, and Michael records.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
My son three years old, Like I get in the card.
He like play kids songs. I'm like, what you want
to hear Michael Jackson like he thinks as kids music like,
but that's how good it is. It's resonating with like
a kid all the way to a gangster, to a politician,
to a lawyer, anybody. For the most part, you could
feel Michael Jackson music. So it's like I want to,

(52:21):
you know, be able to contribute something to the game
on that similar level. And I take a lot of
work that take a lot of locking in.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
If you had like a vision for like what artistically
I mean maybe career wise too, but where you're at
five years from now.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Man man, just like really uh giving back, you know
what I mean, and create more opportunities for where music
is going. And for kids that's like trying to do
their thing, you know what I mean. I see my
homeboys James far Leroy and Lawrence with fifteen hundred, they
got a whole academy, they got to school. That's something
that I want to, you know, lock in and be
able to teach and just like really inspire the next generation.

(53:02):
It's like the game is getting crazy, Like I've been
seeing it. I've been saying it for years. That is
getting easier and easier to make beats. And now they
got the artificial intelligence. You could type in the sound
of vibe and it'll make the be for you. I
feel like it's only gonna get better. Anybody gonna be
able to just have music at the tip of their
fingers now and just like make it sound quality somehow.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
So does that make you worry?

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Nah? That just like I need to I need to
like link with some AI people and see how I
can incorporate that into what I'm doing. It's just like
that's where the world is going. It is what it is. Like.
I don't never like try to be anti what's going on.
It's like I want to implement it and see how
I can use my personal style along with some AI shit.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
You know. Yeah, speaking of the way like things have
changed in production over the years, I mean you kind
of even say it too. So for Drown, it's like
I haven't really seen you without a bunch of like
co producers, Like the way that there's a bunch of
The generous way of saying it is it's more collaborative
process for you know. The other way of looking at
it is it's a lot of people getting points or whatever.

(54:08):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
I mean, yeah, like I said, it's like getting easier
and easier to like make music, and then like you know,
some people are finesse's that's that specific line though, was
for one person kind of attacked me out of nowhere,
and I'm just like, I never seen one credit from
you without a co producer, like go, look me up,
you know what I mean, Like you trying to downplay
what I do. And that's just all that was. But

(54:31):
I understand like Quincy might not even touch the drums
or keys on any thriller songs. Nah, you know what
I mean. But we still revere him and respect him,
and we know his genius. We know that he contributed
something that really mattered to that project to be the
producer on every song and to be the executive producer.
But you got Greg feeling games, you got the guy

(54:51):
who is programming the drums and all that, But that
don't make him anything less. So it's like I'm not
saying that it's not cool to work with other musicians.
I do that I got credits. You know, I'd be
generous with letting my homies come in. And if I
hear something, it's like, yo, add a part to this,
maybe try some drums here, Like you know, I'm still
I'm still there conducting it though, you know what I mean,

(55:13):
Like if you give me some pieces, I don't. I
don't really just let people just freely do their thing,
like I kind of just like kind of still got it.
And that's what the genius part is. So you know,
I understand that's part of the game.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Some of the younger, young young artists. Are you enticed
by working with them? Oh, for sure, I'll be down
to the like you know something, I'm like, man, I
can hear her.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
That's funny. Now, it's crazy because before a month just
before like her like you know, following Drake and Drake,
following her all this, Like I literally DMed her and
she came to LA and when she hit me up,
like I just was kind of just moving around, probably
doing too much and wasn't able to link. And I
was about to link her before the fame, before like

(55:57):
the real pop off and ship, like I've seen the vision.
I knew it was coming.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Did you see it from off that off the Busted
Down Challenge or what would you see?

Speaker 2 (56:05):
This is way back, bro. I just seen like the
way she looks. She had a look and like you know,
she like just had some tour the video for the
Red Fro. This is this is some time ago. Like
I mean, I just was like I hit her up
and gave her my number when she came in, when
she came out, we just never linked.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
It's got to happen, man, crazy, that's got to happen,
because she was sounding real nice on your beats for sure. Man, Well,
thanks so much for being gracious with your time, man,
for sure for all the music.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Man, appreciate y'all having me. Man, it was set up.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Before you go. I got acol because it's important. Man.
How good NAS is sounding or on.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Your shout out to David kim our engineer. He mixed
all four projects, my home boy. He makes a lot
of other stuff, mixed most of my music. But it's
kind of like a perfect triangle offense, you know what
I mean, between me and him and Nas as far
as sonics and getting you know, everybody putting it all
into what's going on, like David is gonna go to

(57:07):
extra mile to just make sure the music is pumping
in the vocals, just like sitting in a proper place.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Sitting perfect. Man. Whatever people was hearing in the day
where they felt like they couldn't lay their voice into
your beats because it's too crowded, It's like, whatever's going
on now? Man, it's like sonically.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Perfect, yeah, not for show, And that's what I'm working on.
I just like want the music. I'm trying to get
to that thriller level where it's like just like going
into your ears perfectly and just hitting the veins and
the soul. You know what it does.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
And I'm telling you like having nas At thirty years
later sounding better than his every time, that's like having
a Whitney ten years ago coming out with her best record.
You know, like you got someone with an iconic voice
sounding the best that they've ever sounded.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
That's why I'll be telling you too. I'm like, Bro,
you could say ABC one two three on the beat
and your voice is so cold that it's gonna sound ill.
So I'm like the words and the way you putting
it together, that's just like the mind blowing shit.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Yeah, yeah, man, We must respect man.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Appreciate you, Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Thanks to hit Boys for breaking down his production process
and inspiration. You can hear all of our favorite hit
Boy produced tracks on a playlist at broken record podcast
dot com. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at
YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you can
find all of our new episodes. Broken Record is produced

(58:29):
with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ven Talliday, Nisha Venkat,
Jordan McMillan, and Eric Sandler. Our editor is Sophie Crane.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to
Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription service that

(58:50):
offers bonus content and uninterrupted ad free listening for only
four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on
Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you like the show, remember
to share, rate, and review us on your podcast daft
our Keumus Expecting Beats, I'm justin Richmond's What the pu