Janelle Monáe & Nate Wonder

Janelle Monáe has had a lot to smile about this year. After a run of successful albums over the last decade, in June she released her fourth album, The Age of Pleasure. The album was just nominated for two Grammys including Album of the Year. This project is important—it signaled a big tone shift for Janelle whose past albums have centered in part around a recurring character named Cyndi Mayweather, an android who represents society’s new “other.”

Esthetically Janelle has always been buttoned up. For her first few album releases she made a point of always appearing in public in some iteration of a tuxedo. For The Age Of Pleasure though, she literally stripped down to almost nothing, flaunting a newfound freedom centered around Black joy and acceptance.

On today’s episode Justin Richmond talks to Janelle Monáe and her long time music partner Nate Wonder poolside, at their creative home base in the Hollywood Hills called Wondaland. Nate explains how The Age Of Pleasure album started with the simple conceit of making Janelle smile. Janelle also talks about why she decided to ditch a career in musical theater after college, and how THE Grace Jones ended up topless in Wondaland’s now-infamous pool.

You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite Janelle Monáe songs HERE.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Janelle Mona's had a lot to smile about this
year after a run of successful albums over the last decade,
and June she released her fourth album, The Age of Pleasure.
It's an important project. Not only was it just nominated
for two Grammys, including the Album of the Year, but

(00:36):
it's also signaled a big tone shift for Janelle, whose
past albums have centered in part around a recurring character
named Cindy Mayweather, an android who represents society's new other. Esthetically,
Janelle has also always been pretty buttoned up. For her
first few album releases, she made a point of always
appearing in public in some iteration of a tuxedo. But

(00:56):
for the Age of Pleasure, she literally stripped down to
almost nothing, flanting a newfound freedom centered around black joy, pleasure,
and acceptance. On today's episode on Poolside, having a conversation
with Jenemo and her longtime musical partner Nate Wonder, who
also co produced and co wrote this new record along
with her others, We're after a creative home base in

(01:17):
the Hollywood Hills called Wonderland. Nate explains how the Age
of Pleasure album started with the simple conceit of wanting
to make Janelle Monet smile. Jane also talks about why
she decided to ditch your career in musical theater after
college and how the Grace Jones ended up topless in
Wonderland's now infamous pool. This is broken record liner notes

(01:41):
for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation
with Nate Wonder and Janelle Monette. Happy birthday, Thank you
Rammy nomination.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yes, album of the Year.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, it's like two in a row.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Now, I know that's a big deal. I know it's
a big deal.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
I'm still just so humbled, very big.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Not just progressive R and B album, but like album
of the year, Like that's some crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
That's wild.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
I watched a lot of my here get it and
be on that stage, and like it's really a dream
to be able to not just shine light on the
work that I do. But you know, Nate's here as well.
He worked heavily on the music and production and writing
with me and everybody else who you know was a
part of the album. They get recognized too. So that's

(02:28):
the beautiful thing about being in that category.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, no, absolutely, Yeah. I wanted to ask about the
collaborative since I have the pleasure of both of you guys,
which is it feels special to me. So I was
curious about how you guys collaborate on it. I mean,
you guys been working together a long time.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
First of all, every project, every album since my EPs,
where I was selling them out of the trunk of
my car in Atlanta. We've been able to have, you know,
a creative bond and just like evolution together and it's
just been really a fun ride. Lots of fun things
happen in the studio. It feels like family, it feels intentional.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Where were you both at when you guys first met
in Atlanta?

Speaker 2 (03:15):
We met at Morehouse Janelle was she was living like
in the.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
Area, Parson Street, Yeah, boarding house next to Club Woody
in auc Club Woody is.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
The name of the library.

Speaker 5 (03:28):
Okay, you go there though, because it's in the middle
of all three campuses, it's kind of like a club.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
You never know in Atlanta what that could be exactly.

Speaker 5 (03:37):
It's actually actually the university library. And she would throw
shows on the steps. And I was just out of college.
I had lost my scholarship in my junior year of
college because I was writing music, And so after I graduated,
like I could really take the time to focus on
my music the way I wanted to.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
So in college you knew that like music was where
you were focused, That's where your attention was.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
But why did you lose it? What happened?

Speaker 4 (04:05):
You need to tell him exactly a moment that will
let you know how serious you.

Speaker 5 (04:09):
I mean, I had I had two full scholarships to school,
and I lost both of them because I.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
How do you have to how do you get two.

Speaker 5 (04:20):
NASA gave me a scholarship and the school gave me
a scholarship separately, and I just had both of them.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
I had one like as a backup, I guess idea.

Speaker 5 (04:29):
But I was in a math test and I was
doing well on the test except for like in the
middle of the test, I had this song come to
me and I just felt compelled to get up, and
I went to my dorm room and I wrote the
song and I did not finish the test, and it
caused my GPA to crater.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
And that's why I lost my scholarship.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yay was that And that's how we got to make music.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
I mean, thank god he lost his NaSTA and scholarship.
I mean, in any other scenario, that's a tragedy. Yeah,
but it seems to have been the right path.

Speaker 5 (05:07):
It tragic at the time too. After I realized that happened.
In the moment, it felt like, this is what you're
supposed to be doing. You need to just listen to this.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Was that common for you to just up and leave
whatever you were doing, wherever you were at, whoever you
were with, YO, get an idea.

Speaker 5 (05:22):
Yeah, but not a test. It had not happened like
that was something that cost me so much.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, in the movie of your life was a pretty
high stake, you know.

Speaker 5 (05:32):
What I mean, it was, and it felt like a
big mistake afterwards. For a little while, it felt like, wow,
that was crazy.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah. Yeah. My dad was like, you're crazy. You absolutely
lost your mind.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Were your parents academically folks, like, I mean, I don't
know how you get a scholarship.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
My dad has a doctorate in music.

Speaker 5 (05:49):
Actually, wow, And he wasn't active in music in that
kind of way.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
He's a professor, so he's yes, he's.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, you grew up with a lot of theory and things.

Speaker 5 (06:00):
I grew up watching him write music composed and like
he was writing operas and all that kind of stuff,
and like, so I saw that growing up, and I
learned a lot of instruments kind of I got introduced
to a lot of instruments early on, and I got
introduced to the idea of composition very early.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
But he was not. He was like that it is dumb,
just so we could be clear, that's dumb.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Did you know him at the time.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
I didn't know. You didn't know each other.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
That was you know, I met him after he probably
did some healing from the traumatic experience of losing your scholarships.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
I learned how to focus. That's what I learned from that.

Speaker 5 (06:41):
I always hold that as like a lesson in focus
what it takes.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Focus on the thing at hand, or focus on the
creativity that's taking away.

Speaker 5 (06:50):
Actually, you know, you know it's interesting, like it's just
pick something and do that thing. So the idea of
the multitasking and all that kind of stuff, I understood
how detrimental that could be to whatever the dream that
I had was. So if it was music, like I
know that, Like the feeling I had when I was
in the class asked, was, hey, you're not pursuing the

(07:12):
thing that you're supposed to be pursuing right now, and
you are going to feel sick about that at some
point in time. Right now, you feel sick, so you
need to go write that song. Later on, I felt like, okay,
I but I made a commitment and so you know,
it's about just commitment, focus not being distracted. And when
I finished college, I was like, Okay, now I'm going
to focus and I wanted to do that.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
You did finish, yes, and you paid.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, I had to pay my last year.

Speaker 5 (07:38):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Hey, last year, I got a scholarship for part of it.
I got a scholarship to go live in Spain, so
they paid me to go.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
I did get another scholarship too, smart man, But I.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
And tell them what you know what?

Speaker 4 (07:56):
Tell them what you got that scholarship in Spanish, which
I suck it. I failed Spanish high.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
School year, but major Spanish class.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Major in Spanish.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, did you study any music Spanish music while you
were in Spain?

Speaker 2 (08:12):
No?

Speaker 5 (08:12):
I studied Spanish art and architecture actually, And so when
I went to Spain, I was like, let me not
pursue music right now, let me focus. I'm not going
to bring any of my instruments, like I would never
not have a guitar in my hand. And so I
was like, I'm going to go to Spain. I'm not
going to have any instruments. I'm going to focus and
I'm going to just do what I'm here to do.

(08:33):
And I went there, and what was crazy is that
the place that I lived was directly next to a
music conservatory. So I would wake up and this girl
would play the flute every morning. It would wake me
up every morning. I would hear musicians playing all day,
and I was like, man, I got so I was there.
I bought a flute and like taught myself to play

(08:53):
the flute, but that was it. I was like, let
me just that's small enough.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, that's more of a hobby than a real pstick pursuit. Similarly,
you early on were kind of like possessed by creativity, right,
I like that possessed.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
Yes, there was never a time where I wasn't singing.
I don't remember like singing, acting, partying, doing exactly what
it is that I'm doing. I was talking to a
friend and she reminded me, she was like, remember in
sixth grade when we used to throw these parties and
you would charge a dollar for people to get in,
and I skipped school to hand out flyers.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
It was a whole thing.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
But at that same time, I was on every talent
show stage in Kansas City, in every musical theater production.
And you know, it's morphed into concerts now and the
age of pleasure album and being driven by by just
the things that I love. I'm so thankful that I
still can do that. And for me when I went

(09:54):
to school in New York after you know, after high school,
went to school in New York, and I thought, oh,
I want to do musical theater. As soon as I
got out there and started going to sea plays and stuff,
I was like, man, ugh, I'm not excited about any
of the roles that they're offering.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
You know, people that look like me.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
What were you What kind of roles were you getting?

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Well, we couldn't really audition, but like there was no
there was maybe one strong black woman leading something there
was not right now, Broadway has changed, like it' it's
it's a lot more diverse, a lot more stories, a
lot more uniqueness. And the only thing, because I'm from Kansas,
the only thing I think people saw me doing was

(10:35):
the Whiz, and the Whiz wasn't on Broadway, and I'm
just like, I love the Whiz, but where is the
new energy, the new stories? And I had so much
bubbling because I'm a writer as well, and I decided that,
you know, I was going to quit. So I quit
school in New York. Everybody thought I was crazy too.
That was my like you're crazy moment, because coming from Kansas,
such a small town, They're like.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Wow, You're in New York. You're living the dream.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
And little do they know, I was sleeping in the
same bed as my cousin because I could not afford
housing there, and so I was commuting from like a
hundred and forty of an Amsterdam the like seventy second
and Broadway every single day, Monday through Friday. Wow, I mean,
I learned a lot about surviving. And I was just like,
you know, poor, but excited about the arts and excited

(11:22):
about finally figuring out what did Janelle Robinson have to say?
Because I wasn't even going by Janelle mone I had
not tapped into the center the core of what I
had to say because I was spending so much time
singing everybody else's songs.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Why the transition of Janell Moe then from Janelle Robinson.
What about that felt more like the authentic place to
create farm.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
Well, I knew about the painter mone and I always
thought like, that's that's a great artist name, and it
just so happens to be my real name. My middle
name is none. My aunt actually she was like Janelle Monet,
Janelle Monee. She calls me that all the time, like
when she sees me, and it just it sucks.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Even before, so it wasn't like I was a kid
like your family and where you come from, none.

Speaker 4 (12:08):
Of I just thought Monnette felt like an artist's name
and it was my name, and it was like, yeah, okay,
I get to reinvent you know who, what I can be,
how I can say it, how I see myself.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
And it was so great.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
So that's when I moved to Atlanta, and that's when
I met Nate Rocket Wonder, I met Chuck Lightning, I
met Michael Moore, who were all still working together. They
were at Morehouse. They ran this arts collective called the
Dark Tower Project, and they would bring musicians, poets to
Morehouse and I was one of the people who performed
that night, and I just saw this kind of black

(12:44):
cosmopolitan in Atlanta, Like it was just this melting pot
of just excellence and creativity and freedom of expression. I
had never seen anything like it, and I wanted to
be around that, and I wanted to make music for them.
That's who I wanted to make music for. And so
when I started to write, I would sit out, like
Nate was saying, I would sit on the library steps

(13:05):
of Club Woody and I would just play guitar, sing
my songs. People will walk by, some would stop and listen,
some would keep moving.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
I would go to dorm lounge.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
And sit on the couch and give before like to
anybody that would listen. I was, I was like, I
don't give a damn. I have to know.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Is this for me?

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Like, do you guys like what I have to say?
Like can I make my purpose and passion and also
career aligne.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, that's a scary time because you don't you don't
really know that. And we have the confidence to not
necessarily care, but you don't at times don't really know.
You don't know.

Speaker 5 (13:39):
Like one of the reasons why we really connected was because,
like I know it sounds very basic, but.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
We love art.

Speaker 5 (13:48):
And I think that we were inspired by meeting other
people who loved art, like really would just like fall
in love.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
With art, you know, just be obsessed over it.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
Just sit up all day and think about something that
they read or a painting that they.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Saw, or just a song, just sit and cry to
a song. And just like.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
I know that Janelle and I have a very spiritual
connection that music, it really is like the catalyst for
that and it catalyzes it all the time. It's something
that I know that we can always tap into. Like
besides being like good thought partners and like you know,

(14:35):
there are wonderful myriad things about Janelle that make her
a great like human being. But on a musical level,
she is very passionate about music, Like if I play
certain chords, it can make her cry. And that is
something that also happens to me, Like I can hear
certain songs certain chords, and it doesn't have to do

(14:56):
it necessarily the lyrics. Always sometimes the lyrics, yes, and
poetry is beautiful and that's another you know, but just
like music and just being really just emotionally brought to
your knee ease over how good music can be. And
we've shared so many of those moments, and that was

(15:17):
like the beginning of that time where we got to
really just pass music back and forth and be shocked
and just sit in awe with.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Each other as we would just listen to what could
be done.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
I think one of the things that I loved early on,
and the reason why I think we've worked so well
together musically, is because Nate is a student of music,
and so when it comes to like anything that I
want to do, there's nothing we can't do, from string
arrangements to core progressions, horn arrangements, melodies, Like there's no genre.

(15:57):
We've been genres with each album. You know, it's all
about how do we create our own musical language.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
And I love that.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
I always have to feel pushed and stretched, and I
think that's what is the exciting thing, because it's like
we literally have the the mind and the student heart,
Like we never stop.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Being student, always at the beginning.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
Always it's always a new whiteboard, you know, the ideas
ready to be put down.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
It sounds to me like you guys are just always
creating things, regardless of like there's an album, dude, or
you know, or it's been a minute or you know,
it's like, it's just that's how you guys are inhabiting life.
It's just creating every day or you know, the days
that it feels right to do. Right.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
Yeah, I mean I didn't get into music because of
awards or because of you know, recognition or anything like that.
Music is truly healing. I need music like I need
a song in my darkest hours. I need a song
in my most celebratory stage. I need a song when
you know, I want to communicate something that my own

(17:04):
words can't say, and I need to be able to
write when I'm feeling frustrated or when I'm like it's
a way. It has helped my mental health so much, Yeah,
so much.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
You know, when I was listening again for like the
umpteenth time this morning on a wat to the Age
of Pleasure, I was wondering listening to it, it might
be a possible question to answer, but whether these songs
were for you or for other people, because I in
a way I've realized as I've been listening to it,
I've been taking it as like you giving mantras to me.

(17:36):
I love that, but it occurred to me to the
I'm like, maybe you needed to write this for you too,
and I don't know how you were approaching.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
That, but it's for all of us.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
It's for us, and that means a lot to hear
you say that, because I think one of the most
important things as an artist is your ability to communicate.
And as much as I can, you know, say like, oh,
I just want to do an album and I want
this just for myself and I me to listen to it.
That's not my truth. I actually want everybody to feel

(18:06):
like this is their soundtrack to their life. This is
curating their thoughts and their feelings. They are part of
my community. We're a part of each other's community, and
all of us are growing and healing and moving together
and sharing something that they can tap into anytime they
want to. And it's funny because you're here. This is
exactly what inspired the album, this space, having this space

(18:30):
filled with black and brown and you know, just beautiful
people across the diaspora here, seeing them smiling, seeing the
joy and their spirits and their hearts. During the time
where everybody thought the world was ending, I mean every dayandemic.
We created Wonderland West during the pandemic. It was one

(18:51):
of the most scary things ever because I grew up
my parents didn't own a home. We were either in
like a duplex or you know, we live with my
grandmother and they were working class, like making ends meet,
but live in check to check. So when it was
time for all of us to contribute and figure out
where we were going to migrate with Wonderland, it was like, okay,

(19:13):
are we ready to all? Am I ready to invest
in our next creative endeavor?

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yes? I am, But we're in the middle of a pandemic.
What does that mean?

Speaker 4 (19:23):
And luckily we knew the person who was trying to
sell the space, and they were just like, there's nobody
else I want to have this space.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
And it worked out and it came right to you. Yeah,
it did.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
But it was also scary because a lot of things
were being canceled For me. My job is to go
out into the world and travel and you know, try
to heal people through music.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
But I couldn't do that.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
So you come from growing up a certain amount of insecurity. Yeah,
and it's you know, the successful career you've had, it's
hard to imagine that. But you know, as soon as
you start to feel that a little bit insecurity again.
I know from my own life, like all of a sudden, Yeah,
I mean, where was your mind that?

Speaker 2 (20:07):
With all of that, I.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
Think the pandemic reminded me just how much music means
to me as a person, not as a career path,
not as you know, the artists that people know and
come to the concerts and see, but as a human
android having this Earth experience.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
I need music. I need to create.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
During that time, not only were we working on music,
but I also wrote a book called The Memory Librarian.
I was just doing anything creative that would would help
me feel better, because to go from moving around so
much to just being still it was tough.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
It was tough for me. How was it for you, Nate?

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (20:45):
You know, art has this weird responsibility of trying to
document and explain the human experience a little bit more
and kind of just like on Earth, a little bit
more about what it means to be human. And I
think that so many of us were finding out a
lot more about what it meant to be human, Yeah,
like a lot about the mortality of it, even though

(21:07):
we weren't necessarily in or didn't consider ourselves vulnerable in
that kind of way. I think a lot of us
looked at ourselves as more vulnerable to death. And I
think that that was a very real consideration that we
all kind of had to deal with it differently. And
I think that human experience is a very unique one

(21:30):
that kind of felt like okay, so what is the
response to that, and how do you talk about this
in healthy ways? And how do you explore and understand
more about it? So I think that like part of
what we were trying to do was just face that
in an honest way. When you talk about like the affirmations,

(21:53):
I mean that was very intentional, because part of just
confronting death is like being able to turn your head
and be like not today, and then you kind of
are like okay, so then what does that mean? And
it's kind of like, okay, live and so then how
do you live in a way that honors the life experience?

(22:15):
And it's like, hey, okay, I'm here, I'm here now,
you know. And you hear these stories about the Roaring
twenties when people are kind of like getting through the depressions.
It's so much going on and they're like you and
they've made it through a pandemic, right, and you have
the guilt and so much of that goes into just

(22:35):
just your human experience, and it's those affirmations were like
just the small attempts to just undergird just the everyday
thing that's kind of like pushing you down and kind
of be like, all right, I'm.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Gonna get back up.

Speaker 5 (22:50):
You know when Janelle says like I used to walk
into the room head down, you know, it's just that
feeling of I used to walk into the room head
down and being like that's I'm leaving that and now
I'm onto this next stage of myself.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
I think in the I think it was a priva
to be still because during that time, I mean, as
we know, a lot of people were getting laid off
from work, a lot of people were losing their families
passing away. And as much as it was sad that
I couldn't go and be the artist that I wanted
to be out into the world, there were so many
other people who had it worse than us. In that stillness,

(23:29):
I said, well, what can I do. I know, we
were in LA and we got the opportunity to feed
and give out over thirty five thousand meals throughout Won
to Lunch program, and so we did that for like months,
and months and months, and I think that connectivity back
to humanity really let us know what kind of affirmations

(23:50):
are people needed and what I needed as well. And
I think to answer your question, we were very intentional
about that, and I think Float really kicked it off.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Like I used to.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
Walk into the room head down out on walk Now
if Float, I got an opportunity in that stillness to
deal with childhood trauma that I had not help with
that because because I was moving around so much, I didn't.
It was like, Okay, you know something's not right, but
I don't have time to deal with it. And in

(24:21):
that discovering and peeling back the layers of the rejection
and abandonment that I felt early on get into the
root of it, my spirit started to get lighter because
I knew. I was like, oh, okay, so I can
become better and more evolved as a person now. And

(24:41):
I feel so empowered now that I know.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
What was going on with me.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
And when you heal as a as a person, all
of that seeks into your music and your art. My
art is a reflection of who I am, and I'm
so thankful for that, because all I wanted to do
was give more people affirmations because I know I wouldn't
only want When I would have conversations with people, they
would say the same thing, like, man, I have to

(25:08):
let go of this. I have to let go of that,
you know, And so float was that thing. It was
like once you let go of the heaviness that you've
been carrying on your back that you didn't didn't have
to carry, and you just find you're finding out like, oh,
I have a way to get all of this off
of me now. It felt like I wanted to celebrate
as a new person, like I feel like I definitely,

(25:29):
you know, shed a lot of skin, turned a new leaf.
And obviously it's a constant, you know, journey, But once
I tapped into it, I got really inspired to write
about it.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
After a quick break, we'll come back with more of
my conversation with Jennel Monet and Nate Wonder. We're back
with Jennel mone and Nate Wonder. Once you put the
album out, how did you guys feel about the response
to it. You know, obviously we're very vulnerable, and I
feel like that was like a big point of conversation

(26:06):
around that. But was it Sometimes you do things feeling
like that's the right thing to do, and then it's like,
oh shit, I got to talk about this, Like how
was the process of going out and talking about the
album and getting people's responses to the project?

Speaker 4 (26:21):
You know, I think it's a beautiful thing that when
people see themselves reflected, that was the most beautiful thing.
I think a lot of people coming up to me,
some of them whispering, some of them more vocal about it,
like thank you so much, you know, for sharing more
of who you are. There's this quote by betha and
Hardest and this as you know, people don't change that

(26:42):
become more of who they are. And what I got
an opportunity to do is become more of who I
am and write about it and write about it with
other people who were discovering more about who they were
and us having a safe space that was really important.
I think with an album called The Age of Pleasure,
there is no pleasure without safety. When we don't feel

(27:03):
safe and taking care of you cannot be free in
the way that you move or express yourselves.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
At least from me to your point earlier about unpacking
a lot of the dramas and stuff, just feeling safe
within yourself too exactly, you know what I mean exactly.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
I feel a lot more. Mmm, how do I put it?
I did put it. I see a float. I feel
like I've like floated in anything that used to bother me.
It doesn't touch me to say. It's kind of scary
and also really really awesome.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, how was it writing on this record with Janelle?
With given the just the way the songs were coming out,
it was.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
A real blessing.

Speaker 5 (27:43):
Before we started working on that album, I remember I
told my management team that I really wanted to focus
this time that I have right now on making music
for black women and black non binary folks. I want
to make music that makes them smile, Like, I want

(28:04):
to make music for them specifically, like I really just
want to be of service to that community. And there's
so many reasons why. But one reason is because when
I go to the grocery store as like a little
side I.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Do it. I love it.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
This is great.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
I love it because I do not like going used
to have me in the grocery store way too long.
It's like I'm ready to go home.

Speaker 5 (28:37):
So anyway, but when I would go and I see
like black women at the grocery store smiling.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
It just makes me feel a certain way.

Speaker 5 (28:46):
And sometimes it'll be like when a certain song would
come on, it would be like you see them singing
their song and it's like, man, so good. And Janelle,
of course, has like done so much work as a
leading voice in terms of activism, in terms of being
on the right side of history, in terms of speaking

(29:07):
up for marginalized people, early to early always it's been herself.
But I also was thinking about how much that can
weigh on a person, And I told you now, I said,
I really like for your next time, I would really
love I would love to see you smile more like

(29:29):
I would love to just see you smile, Like it
really would mean so much. I think that you smiling
is a really special thing. I love when I see
you smile, and I would love to see what that
energy is to like really put that into a space.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
And I hadn't really considered that. And I looked at
all my album covers and I was like, I'm really
not smiling.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Kind of fuck with you for a second, Yeah, I was.

Speaker 4 (29:53):
Like, what what is going on? Like from the Arcandroid
to Electric Lady to Dirty Computer, And if you look
at the cover for the Age of Pleasure. I am
writing this pool swimming topless and smiling.

Speaker 5 (30:13):
Yeah, you know, it's a layered idea, but I do
think that giving somebody something that makes them want to
smile is its own resistance. It's its own protest, it's
its own like giving people affirmations is its own version.
It's a certain form of work, it's a certain type

(30:36):
of healing.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
And so it's pleasure like yeah, you like it's like
I want you to smile. It's like to your point
then too, it's like only I smile, like I want
top in this pool right and smiled, And it's like
both of those things are can be subversive, can't be
absolutely you know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (30:53):
Absolutely it is to make an album called The Age
of Pleasure in the middle of a pandemic is a
subversive piece of art because it is just kind of
being like, no, it's just like because there's been you know,
when you're dealing with so much trauma from elections to
it's so much that happens, and it feels like your

(31:15):
energy when you wake up is going to be stolen
from you.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, yeah, it feels like, yeah, you're dolen, right, It's
not yours.

Speaker 5 (31:24):
Exactly, and so it was like a big like, no,
you cannot have all of my day.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, you cannot have all of my time.

Speaker 5 (31:33):
I'm going to take some time to enjoy life as
best as I can under whatever the circumstances that I
have are. I'm going to try my best to do
what I can to appreciate this moment, as simple as
it may be. And what I think that we were
finding in the writing process was that just having time

(31:56):
to hang out with your friends was the thing that
we needed the most. Just seeking time to appreciate each other,
to smile at each other, to laugh with each other,
to do like the simple stuff with each other felt
like this is like worth my time way more than
whatever that other thing was that was driving me and

(32:18):
decentering my joy.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
Yeah, I mean that's what that stuff does, right, Like
when you think about racism, when you think about sexism,
when you think about homophobia, all of it. It literally,
in addition to just being you know, pure evil work,
it distracts you from living your life because you spend
so much time fighting. And I definitely found myself and
I know I'm not the only one. There were so

(32:42):
many of my friends and people who were out marching.
You know, you have to understand George Floyd had been murdered.
It was so much. Breonna Taylor, it was so much.
And I was working with say her name and I
put out you know, protest music. It was so heavy, man,
and I was like, somebody has to do the work.
But I think balance is important, and what I was
realizing is I was not getting the balance that I needed.

(33:06):
And so once we made a decision to not center
white supremacy, to not center you know, all all of
the things that again come to distract and destroy and
stop us from just living our lives as humans, having
this earth experience and be clear and stand on that.
That's when I feel like the songwriting got focused. And

(33:27):
with this project, I said, I want to make music
for that community, for that community of folks who suffer
time poverty, Like they don't have time.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
It's a great phrase.

Speaker 4 (33:37):
It's a real thing in our community. People don't have
the time or the leisure time to just be you
know what I'm saying, to just be one with their
friends or their families, because you spend so much time working,
you spending so much time fighting, and it's like when
do we say, Okay, well we're going to carve out
this little space for us. And so I said, I
want to create music that we can all listen to

(34:00):
take with us whole with us. That is the balance
in everything that we're dealing with. And if the people
that I invite or are not dancing to these songs,
if they are not moving, if they're not trying to shazam,
if they're not asking who is that, then it's not working.
It's not like I want them to really really really

(34:22):
really love this music. Obviously we have to love it right,
but it was so important that the community people we
were writing.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
It for loved it.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
And that's how we put together the Age of Pleasure.
We had Nona Quabina who worked on some of the music,
who's also a DJ, and our friends with everyday people.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
I don't know if you know about everyday people parties.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
I've not bet, but like I have to give a
shout out Pleasure Science. I've been working hard.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
I have to give them a shout out because during
the pandemic, they couldn't find a place, you know, to
have their parties. And when I say parties, it's not
just like I mean everybody's dancing and singing and having
a good time, but people are feeding each other at
the parties like their food vendors.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
It's the diaspora.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
It's Pan African is from around the globe from you know, Nigeria, Ghana,
the Caribbeans, Jamaica, Atlanta, New York, LA and Cape verd
like all in one place. It's just nothing like going
to their parties. And so when they asked they had
come by Wonderland, they were like, you know, they were
having a hard time getting the space, and we were like,

(35:28):
come here, shoot, let's figure it out because we're we're
going through it too, like not being able to see people,
like how can we do this?

Speaker 3 (35:37):
And that was a was it a bob?

Speaker 1 (35:40):
You had to know who was coming or okay, right?

Speaker 3 (35:42):
For sure?

Speaker 1 (35:43):
It was very small because I would be a little.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yeah it was. We needed to know.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
It was small and it was safe.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
Yeah, safe and small, And and that's where the music
was tested first hearing all of the backstory.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
I'm just gonna say it because I feel like it's
even in the music, like a more human album. It's
funny because as we're moving into an age now more
the future looks a little bleaker in terms of technology.
I feel like you might have called that a little early.
And it feels like the project away from computer and

(36:15):
arch Android and Metropolis and like this tomorrow it feels
like Janelle the person you know, or it feels like
to me listening to it, like I even just feel
myself coming a lot more, just feeling more than me,
you know what I mean. I know a lot of
people who've listened to the record, a lot of friends,
a lot of people. They're saying that like it makes
them feel a particular way as a living creature, you know.

Speaker 5 (36:39):
Yeah, you know, from the beginning, there was this conversation
around android rights. Yeah, and Cindy was always being was
always fighting to be perceived as a human and to
be respected as a human. So I guess there's a
certain truthfulness to being like, yeah, you're a human and

(36:59):
kind of being like.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
Yeah, finally, I mean the definition of an android. And
if you're listening and you don't know any of my work,
it's rooted around Cindy May whether who represents the other
and the other is a parallel, you know, the android
is a parallel to black folks to you know, marginalize
folks that I want to amplify, the voices I want

(37:20):
to amplify and the music I want to write. The
definition of an android is a robot developing human characteristics.
So I really think it tells such a continuation of
beautiful continuation of the story, and it's not finished. It's
very trippy to see because when I put out Metropolis,

(37:41):
we were reading The Singularity is near by Ray Kurzweil,
and if you haven't read that, please do. But it
talks about this moment that we're having with AI, and
it talks about the singularity of like not being able
to differentiate AI recording the song by Janelle Monne or
Janelle Monet really mapping out that voice. And it's so

(38:01):
interesting that it's happening now. And when I think about
the album, how I hate to say it, we knew
that that when this moment of integration happens, humans were
going to be frantic about it, as you can see
right now, Like it's a lot going on in my
business when it comes to using the likeness of an

(38:23):
actor's face without paying them, like AIS in that conversation heavily,
and people are afraid and they're scared and I totally
get that, and I also think that there needs to
be more conversation and more laws and things rules to
really be agreed upon, because not all humans.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Are bad and not all AI is bad.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
So I think that there needs to be a real
conversation around who's programming AI. But the thing that I
realized in knowing that the Singularity was going to happen
was that it's nothing like that human in human connection.
It was so important for us to gather and have
experiences that cannot be created by AI. We can only

(39:05):
have these the barbecue experiences, you know, sharing food together,
wrapping our arms around each other, being there for each other,
and these times, these are moments that humans have such
a deep connection to and can talk about in ways
that AI can. And that was my hope too, is

(39:26):
to encourage more community, to encourage people to be with
each other like our stories are all we have. It
is our stories that will set us apart and continue
to make us believe in humanity again.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, how have you guys playing guitar on the steps,
barely finishing college, having to shot out some money to
do it? You guys found each other over those years,
you guys have amassed a body of work, all very
different from each other, genre less. As you said from
the beginning, money comes success time, new people, new relationships,

(40:01):
new opportunities. It's incredible to me that you guys have
managed to stay close.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
There you go, Yeah, separate the legal entity of the
Rolling Stones, you know, it's like, yeah, I have no
real responsibility to each other.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
We do, but we do.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Yeah, but that's very I'm happy that you brought that up.
It's so true.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
And when I look at some of the collectives, and
you know, we don't have to dig into names, but
even even some of the most iconic collectives ended up
not working with each other anymore. And I just remember
the time when they were and how that felt, and
how I felt when it wasn't the case anymore. And
I just it always was important to me to nurture

(40:51):
my relationships, like I invest in people, you know, not
because they're of course, everybody is very talented, but I
think they're really really great people who happened to be
very talented. And when you come from a big family
like me, I have forty nine first cousins, so I
was brought into a community, you know that runs through

(41:12):
my blood. And it's loyalty, and it's growth and transparency
and communication and all those things in respect as somebody
who has ideas, obviously, I'll always have the final say
if we're working on something with what I want to do,
you know, on my music.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
But I love listening.

Speaker 4 (41:30):
I love being able to hear how Nate's mind is working,
to hear how Chuck's mind is working. Since a bueno
is thinking none no, like I love to see how
they interpret certain things and how they sharpen my sword
you know when it is time to creatively fight for
an idea.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
So I love that.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
I love what this community has done, not just for
me before the rest of the.

Speaker 5 (41:56):
World quests love for us aside a few years ago
and he was like, listen, man, you guys have something
really really special. But just so you know the most
important thing you guys can do, just trust me on this.
Just stay together. Just stay together. And he went through

(42:19):
his stories of what happened, like all the things that
happen to you can change you. But just know that
you guys have something very special and it's worth protecting.
Stay together. Don't get distracted by whatever else comes. Just
stay together. And the other thing is that we have
this credo, a Wonderland credo that was written a long time.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Ago, like very very early.

Speaker 5 (42:45):
And in there it discusses our responsibility to each other
and to our broader community, but.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Specifically to each other.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
How we need to take care of each other, how
we need to look after each other. Those basic things
are written into our credo of how we understand Wonderland.
Like at its foundation it must at least be a
community or artists can be taken care of and of

(43:18):
course challenge each other around our ideas, but that we
feel at least safe to have our ideas.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
Yeah, that's how you make your best music again, when
you feel safe with the people that you're with, Like
when you feel like you can just go there and
try new shit out like fall in love with music,
fall in love with art, And I think that's what
we love at our core.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
First of all, you guys are living the dream. I
mean that you guys found each other. It's hard.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
Let me say, it is hard work. It is not easy.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Art is hard.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
Depending on what process you're in, it can be frustrating
and just like you can lose your confidence and second
guess yourself, or you could be having the best time
of your life. You wake back up and listen to
that demo or you wrote the night before, you're like, oh,
this ship is fire, like thank God, and you play
it for people outside you know, who were not a

(44:15):
part of the process, and you get that feedback. It
can be disappointing or it can be like, Yes, when
do you.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Start playing stuff for Is it usually like earlier in
the process, or is it like.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
I try to play as early as possible.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
I like people seeing in the studio when I'm working
on music.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
I gotta feel that.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Yeah, he's different. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
But but with Age of Pleasure, I was more open.
But with all my other albums I would be in
their engineering myself. I engineer myself a lot on this
project too.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, just because you wanted to be.

Speaker 5 (44:43):
Because I needed When she goes in, yah, it's like
close it and Janelle go in there and will engineer.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
And then I'll call them back in like once I
have all my takes that I feel like are highlighted
and good, or I'll ask them to highlight in green,
like which ones you think are the best. But I'm
always searching for that feeling, and sometimes I need to
be alone to get that feeling.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, we're gonna pause for another quick break and then
come back with more from Nate Wonder and Janelle Monee.
We're back with the rest of my conversation with Nate
Wonder and Janelle Monee. We were talking about the diaspora
earlier and one of the beautiful that on the album

(45:26):
Daspa was like really represented from Sam Coudie, Yes to
uh to Sister Nancy, Nancy Grace Jones, uh.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
K K Doms Unlimited.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
From Atlanta to Ghana, to Nigeria to Jamaica and so on.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
I mean, it's just we're so friends on there.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, some of the musicians talking.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, and what did those come from?

Speaker 4 (45:55):
Corey hen from us so French the French seventy five
is us in New Orleans during Essence Fest, not this
year but last year and we were we woke up
and we started talking about the night that we had
and it was my first it was like my first
time getting beads and so if you've been to New Orleans,

(46:15):
you know what getting your beads means. Like it's so
fun and I was, it was so liberating and just
really I know, right, it involves you going down on
in the French quarters and if you lift your shirt up,
they would throw you some beads. And it's a part
of the New Orleans culture. Fun and it was freeing

(46:36):
because as somebody who's like, oh my god.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
I'm famous, they can't do these things. I'll end up.

Speaker 4 (46:41):
And nobody even really posted it until like years later. No, no, no,
nobody found it. Actually, nobody found that video. Maybe one person.
No no, no, no, not not my beads. Oh I've done that.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
On several occasions.

Speaker 4 (46:55):
No, it's really the beads want too. I thought, okay,
well that's awesome. It made me smile. Remember I said
this album we are smiling. This season, we are smiling.
And that being said, I wanted to just have authentic
conversations with my friends and I just asked them it
was okay if I press record, and it's just it

(47:17):
was authentic because the people who were there, they're really
my friends. And so to have these conversations with the
people who are directly involved in inspiring the songs and
the song writings. They were all in the studio when
we were writing them. They were the first people that
I think everybody on the interview they were some of
the first people that heard the songs. So when we
did Float to Champagne Shit, those were their ellipstic lover

(47:40):
Like when we were writing those songs, I always looked
at how they moved. I always looked at the body language.
I always looked at like when they would go play
other artists songs, what they asked to play this song again,
because I liked their taste and I knew that they
were like key in helping us nurture that audience that
we wanted.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Like what we would example, something you might have tweeked it.
So you're looking at your friends playing on they might
not quite groove the way you expect. Yeah, so what
do you do? You just go back in and you
know what, I.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
Don't feel like we had a lot of those moments
with it.

Speaker 5 (48:15):
Only I know one song that that happened with and
we changed. It didn't come we were in the middle
of trying to figure the song out.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
It was hot.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Okay, YEA changed that one.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Yeah, that was a lot.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
Yeah, there's actually a David Bowie vocal that was supposed
to go on that.

Speaker 5 (48:32):
It was a quote from an interview that he had
done that right after right after Janelle says, uh, they
say I look better than David Bowie and the moon
Age Dream.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
There's this quote line.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
I love that line.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Because I think Edward had taken us to the movies.

Speaker 5 (48:49):
To see moon Aed's day Dream because he knew Janelle
was a huge fan.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
I oh, you took everybody.

Speaker 5 (48:57):
I'm sorry, you took everybody to see the David boy
film moon AG's day Dream.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
You said Edward Norton.

Speaker 4 (49:03):
Yeah, because we had just so when I when we
wrote the Age of Pleasure. Right before that, I just
filmed The Glass Onion and we were in Greece and Serbia,
and I was having Nate send me music there because
I was like, when I get back, I'm writing this album. Yeah,
I'm writing this album. I'm so inspired. I know I'm

(49:26):
clear on where I am, who I am, and what.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
I need to do.

Speaker 4 (49:30):
And so he sent me all the music of some
of the musical beds and I picked what I loved
and liked. As soon as I got back, I was
in the studio.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
It's poetic that you're working on the Glass Onion and
you're coming clear about.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Who you are.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
Clear.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
It's like pull back the layer. Yeah, So David boy quote.
It says, I think it's terribly dangerous for an artist
to fulfill other people's expectations.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
If you feel safe.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
In the area you're working in, you're not working in
the right area. Always go a little further into the water.
Then you feel you're capable of being in a little
bit out of your own depth. And when you don't
feel that your feet are quite touching the bottom, you're
just about in the right place to do something exciting.

Speaker 5 (50:20):
Yeah, So that was the end of that was the
quote that was on the in the record.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
We should put that back in time.

Speaker 5 (50:26):
It was great, but of course, like when you're at
a party, you may not want to go into the like.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yeah, it was just like.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Appreciate.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
I don't know if you've seen it, but it's really incredible.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
Because this is somebody who, like myself, you know, is
a world builder. Yeah, and somebody who believed like Ziggy
Starred Us and the Spiders from Mars, gave me the
courage to do Cindy Mayweather in Metropolis and the Arc
Android and to create these versions of ourselves, you know,

(51:04):
these thousand versions of myself and we're all fine. That's
if you don't know that's from Phenomenal on the Age
of Pleasure. Sorry, so so to be able to watch
him say, I know that I could be Ziggie Startles
for the rest of my life, or I can become
more of who I am and give you that and
not be afraid, you know, to break it down and

(51:26):
rebuild and reimagine who I can be. So that really
also helped inspire me as well.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Did you ever get a chance to meet him?

Speaker 4 (51:34):
I feel like I did. I feel like our spirits
absolutely met each other. I know that he knew who
I was because I did a cover of heroes and
his wife Emon told me and he had to clear it.
And his wife told me that he really loved me,
And I was like, oh, I wish I could have
told him how much I really loved him. But I
think he knows it. They are aware.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah, did you putty naturally fall into I mean, twenty nineteen,
you feeling like you want to start writing for women
people calor non binary folk. Was it easy to slide
into that mentality? Was it easy to stike?

Speaker 5 (52:11):
I felt compelled and again, and when I feel compelled,
I'm like, man, I'm doing it?

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Was it a messy star did it feel always right.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
Or natural to fill myself playlist?

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah? Oh yeah, that really encouraged me.

Speaker 4 (52:23):
Yeah, I mean both of us had the same thought.
So we were listening to Spotify. We had an opportunity
to listen to a lot of music. I start back
working out and there were a lot of black women
on this playlist that were just like sounding extra liberated
and super tapped into their well of honesty and truth

(52:44):
and sensuality and sexuality and grit and softness and hardness.
Like I loved hearing that all on one playlist, and
it encouraged me to tap into my many different sides.
And I think Nate would see me listening to Filling
myself playlists around the studio and as I was working out,
and it was like, I've never remembered and that's the

(53:07):
beautiful thing with playlists and really curate your own world,
your own soundtrack. And when I felt that vibe, I
was like, I want more of this, and I want
the people that are listening to this who are feeling
like they have not been able to walk in their
greatness as black women, as non bininary folks, as marginalized people.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
They haven't been able to really own all of them.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
I want to lead by example and I want I
want to highlight them. I want and highlight them by
creating music that speaks to their hearts.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Yeah, yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Know, I got your daughters, and I don't want them
to feel ashamed of pleasure or whatever, like as they
get older and ornot and it's like, ye, but society
for so you.

Speaker 5 (53:52):
Know, and it's still that it's still a lot of
work to be done in that area. But you know,
one of the things I noted was that playlist. Like
when you go to like a rap Caviaar or the
other like big hip hop, the biggest hip hop playlist,
sometimes they'll even have like a woman on the cover.

(54:13):
But then you go through the actual playlist, it literally,
out of one hundred songs, it might be like three
songs by women, and it really I just took so
much issue with it.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
I was just like, this is wild.

Speaker 5 (54:28):
Yeah, Like literally they'll put Megan thee Stallion on the
cover of it, and then I to go like down
thirty songs to get to her song.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
It's like, this is graz this is wow.

Speaker 4 (54:38):
And that was another reason why we wanted to make
sure that you know, black women were represented on this
project generationally, from Dochi to you know, the King of Jamaica, Grace.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Jones, Grace's albums really album Come on exactly. Yeah, ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Let me tell you she.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
I spent seventy two hours with Grace Jones. That's how
we got her on the album.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
I was going to sall you got it, you don't money.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
I'm still like just.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
Bowing down to her. Seventy two hours with her where
I was like, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Come together.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
So I went to her at the Hollywood Bowl and
I ended up. She was somehow it's like her life
on her last songs and they were calling people on stage,
and of course I'm a jump on stage.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
And if you look online.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
If you look online, you will see there's a video
of me running through Grace Jones' legs, her smacking my
ass us, dancing like just being the free spirits that
we are. And I had met her years back, but
we didn't really get to connect. And she did call me.
She called me years back, and I was so shocked.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
I was like, how does she.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Even get my number? And she just called me and
she told me she loved me, and I was just like,
I love you, but we never got to connect again
after that. I think maybe she changed her number, you know,
maybe she just went to another planet for the springtime.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
Who knows, it's Grace Jones.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
And so when she came this time though, we went
backstage and we really connected and she she was.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
Just like hugging me.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
I was hugging her, and she was just saying, you know,
I'm in town for a few days. She invited me
to her hotel where they had like a small little
gathering to celebrate her incredible performance live.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
If you ever get a chance, go see her. She nobody,
nobody touches her.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
I regret not going. I was going to supposed to
go to that.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Always you just always say yes.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
And so that night when we went back to her hotel,
I was like, you know, I you know, I had
to leave, and I just said, I'm just gonna invite
her to Wonderland. What she can just say no, and
if she says no, I'll be like yes. Grace Jones
told me no, Yes.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
So great.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
And so I said, listen, I have to leave, but
I don't know, you know what your schedule is tomorrow,
but I would love to have you for lunch at
Wonderland at our studio and she was like, is there
a pool there? And I was like, indeed, there is
a pool. And then she was like, okay, I will
call you. I'm gonna come, and I just I was
like okay, And I was like, she says this to everybody,

(57:10):
I'm sure because she doesn't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
And she called.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
She had she had her assistant text and asked if
it was a heated pool. If they but she swims
every day, is her exercise? And I asked them, well,
what does she drink? What does she Like, Like, I'm scrambling,
I'm like, how am I going to host Grace Jones?

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Everybody? We need to have a meeting, right go to
the grocery store? What are we doing?

Speaker 4 (57:34):
And he sends me this list like her wine list
is immaculate, her champagne list is immaculate.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
And so she came over and we really had lunch
and we really got in this pool.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
She took her top off. Just I mean, I know,
we're talking a lot about all of the toplessness, which
which is really great because as we know, we live
in a world where there's a double standard. Yeah, you
know where The liberation that Grace has been able to
do did not come with open arms, you know.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
It came with a lot of scrutiny.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
This is somebody who was raised under a pastor, you know,
who was a bishop and in a very conservative community.
And for her to say I'm gonna live my mother
fucking life and to show us that like that was
all I needed to see and hear. And she she
really by being her and by hanging out with her
and her encouraging me to be me, and sitting in

(58:27):
the studio listening to the songs, like her getting up
dancing and moving and telling us which one she loved
and what like her hearing the instruments and talking about
that like she is a musical genius. It was all
the affirmation I needed.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
First of all, her taking off her top of your
pool is a real legendary, what an honor, you know
what I mean? You curated this.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
It's just a typical Tuesday for her.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
But then so then you pull in the studio when
she's listening. You asked her to Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
I was like, I told her, I said I would
love to get you, you know, on our project.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
She was like, Okay, well where is it.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
And I was like, well, since you asked, there's a
studio right in here, and so we went in there.
And but I will say recording Grace Jones because I
had to wrangle her in it is like having the
most beautiful panther in the studio that then turns into
a tiger that then turns into like a bird with

(59:22):
the biggest wings that will flap around and you just
you cannot contain that energy. You just have to have
everything on record and get what you can. Wow, you
know what I'm saying. You can't really tell her what
to do. But even in the moments where I was like, Okay,
can you do more of this or do more of that,
or no, say it like this, or talk French because
she speaks French fluently, and that's what we and that

(59:43):
was the thing that I said, Oh, that's the sexy
shit that I want on this project, because I don't
think we've really gotten a chance to hear her in
that way. And we've actually recorded more, like I have
at least two hours of recording with Grace job definitely,
and I really really want to. She's working on her album,
which is going to also be incredible. She played us

(01:00:04):
her album like I got to hear Grace Jones's album.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
We did. It's really beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
That's incredible. Well man, you got I mean the fact
that you went as far as to pull Grace Jones
in the studio for your album. Nothing we can say
but thank you. There's nothing we could say but thank
you and congratulations on not just the Grammy, but congratulations
for that, but just what I've seen and do to

(01:00:30):
people's spirits over the last eight months.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
You know, that's all we want. It's incredible, that's all
we want. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Can I ask her not to put you on the spot?

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Man?

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
I love We're far enough from heaven.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
You are a Deep Cotton fan.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
I fucking love Deep Cotton. I don't know where the
lost my copy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Of I Love This You Are. I knew I liked you,
but now I love you. I love this is my.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Ship, this song is I feel like I don't even
I don't know how to explain my love of this.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
So good, it's really good.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
Now we can freak out.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
So well done.

Speaker 7 (01:01:12):
You use the brandons to pick out you can join
it sh bang bang, you can't learning them heaving.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Now we can bring out there's some broad doesn't here's
a veranda.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
It wants to break out. There's a killer and all
that is much and it all bang bang go. It's
jars and it's so good on more you can see it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
You can dealing now until right as well, kiss the
monster lighting up.

Speaker 7 (01:01:40):
To your dad.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
You don't think cash you all? I got it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Just take your burthers man didn't tell some stories in here?

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
And who can cook?

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Who can clean?

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Who will pay the fence?

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Who can cook?

Speaker 7 (01:01:52):
Who can clean?

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Who will pay the fence?

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Who can cook?

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
Who can clean?

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Who can paint the fence? I will? I will far
enough from evan. Now we can break out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Yeah we're fire, nothing heaving.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Now we can break out.

Speaker 5 (01:02:09):
Yeah, freak out, Yeah we're freak out.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
You have excellent tastes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
They like.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
When I heard their song, actually, when Nate was saying,
like he met me performing on the library steps with
the guitar, I was heavily just like on some acoustic
big afro I guess you would say.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Neo soul vibes.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
And when I heard their music it changed my whole life.
It changed the way I saw us because I hadn't
seen I mean with the exception of like Andre, because NARLS.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
Barkley wasn't even around at that time. But with the
exception of like the Love Below and what.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Andre was doing and you know, some some some indie
artists in Atlanta, nobody was stretching and it's sounding good,
like it was either too alternative for me to get to,
you know, to get into, and there was no melody.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
There was no soul.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
But when I heard their stuff, I was like, it
was up temp. There were there were like up tempo
records that sounded like Japanese funk.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
I don't know, that's the best way to describe it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
And all I knew was like, I want to make
music like that, and so that I really have to
credit Deep Cott for why I like up tempo songs
and why I make up tempo music and stretch.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
When it comes to genre, textures are incredible. No one really,
no one really plays like acoustic like that, like an
up It sounds like some Frank Black like it's it's weird,
bizarre like phrase.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
Chuck is an incredible writer, imminator, like their their partnership.

Speaker 5 (01:03:52):
We actually had it's crazy. We actually are finishing our
album right now. We actually just got the album cover
done for it and everything.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Yeah, they're coming out, what is coming true?

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:04:08):
I love that song because I love the line who
can cook, who can clean? Who will paint the fence?
I mean, there's so many other things about the song
that are great, but also who can cook, who can clean?

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
Who will paint the fence?

Speaker 5 (01:04:17):
Because it takes like this idea of like taking over
the mansion, tell some stories and there and all that
kind of stuff, which is cool idea, right, but then
like it's the responsibilities that you have to each other,
like who's who can cook, who can clean, who will
paint the like who's doing the real work that it
takes to like stay alive. So we can, you know,
take over this match and tell some stories.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
I love it. Thanks so much, guys, Thank you so much, creative,
Thank you. This is beautiful, incredible. Thanks to Janemo, n
A and Nate wonder for the invite to Wonderland to
chat about her latest album, The Age of Pleasure. You
can hear it along with our other favorite songs of
Jennemales and Nate Wonders on a playlist at Broken record

(01:05:01):
podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube
dot com slash broken Record podcast, where you can find
all of our new episodes. You can follow us on
Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited
by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler and
Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tollinay. Broken Record is

(01:05:22):
a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show
and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin
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(01:05:43):
us on your podcast app. Our theme Music's back Anny Beats.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
I'm justin Richmond.