September 30, 2025 • 49 mins
Miguel, the Grammy-winning alt-R&B pioneer is back with a new album, Caos—his first full-length in eight years. It’s the latest step in a career that’s always pushed the boundaries of R&B, from his 2010 debut through albums that blended in psychedelia, dance music, and now touches of ’80s industrial and even ranchera rhythms.
On today’s episode, Miguel talks with Leah Rose about his unreleased 2023 album Viscera and how suspending himself from piercings in his back during its rollout helped him surrender control. He also shares the story of controversial imagery for his single “New Martyrs.” And, despite collaborations with Travis Scott, Mariah Carey, and Tame Impala, Miguel explains why he’s happiest just making music with his friends.
You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite Miguel songs HERE.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Miguel, the Grammy winning ALTS R and B pioneer,
is back with a new album, Chaos, his first full
length in eight years. It's the latest step in a
career that's always pushed the boundaries of R and B,
from his twenty ten debut, through albums that dabbled in psychedelia,
(00:35):
dance music, and now touches of eighties industrial and even rancherrhythms.
On today's episode, Miguel talks with Lea Rose about his
unreleased twenty twenty three album Viscera, and how suspending himself
from piercings in his back during its rollout helped him
surrender control. He also shares a story behind the controversial
imagery for his single New Martyrs, and despite collaborations with
(00:57):
Travis Scott, Mariah Carey, and Tamimpala, Miguel explains why he's
happiest just making music with his friends. This is broken record,
real musicians, real conversations. Here's Lea Rose in conversation with Miguel.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Okay, so I want to ask you about the song
New Martyrs. I'm curious how you came upon the artwork
for the song and tell me what the artwork is
how you came up with the idea and what the
thinking is behind it.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
So the artwork is.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Almost like a meme because you know, this year, I
think seeing Luigi Mangioni, you know, carry out what he
felt was right, regardless of what it meant in terms
of the law, and morally, seeing how that played out
(01:58):
and how that resonated with so many people with their
anger and their angst. And I'm going to go out
on a limb here and say the disenfranchised and powerless
feeling of watching a political system sort of cannibalize itself
right in front of you, and see how corporate interest
(02:19):
is really infiltrated and manipulated what is meant to be
an equitable process and all inclusive process.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It really is infuriating.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And to see people really get behind an action that
feels like vigilanteism in any other case would be considered
absolutely wrong, unjust, but having that context and then also
understanding the story behind the personal injustice that behind the execution,
(02:52):
you know, seeing how people respond to that is like
even I'm like, nah, yeah, I mean, you're really putting
your money before people's health, You're overlooking your humanity for
your own greed, and I feel this is a something
that hit me so hard that I had to really
(03:13):
look at myself and go, I mean, am I wrong
for a kind of being in agreement?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
You know?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Am I wrong for feeling like he kind of did
the right thing on behalf of a lot of people
who've been shitted on, you know, and more importantly, like,
who have you know, had their loved ones at the
cost of their loved ones, of their own lives of
you know, so real humanity, you know, at the cost
of humanity. I think this is something we're going to
(03:42):
see more and more as we continue. I think that's
a domino until there's some real correction, you know, until
there's some real justice established and awaited to make right
on things moving forward. I think that's why I have
this dream where I'm like kind of like just doing
(04:03):
what I feel is right, even though it may seem wrong.
It's very much inspired by seeing that happen, seeing their response,
and also addressing my own angst, my own anger and
dissatisfaction with the world as it is not just this country,
and so New Martyrs is about that line towards the
(04:25):
end where it's like, yeah, give me what's mine. I
think a lot of people feel that way, and more
and more people are going to feel that way more so.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
What's behind that is like.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Do right by me and right by us, right by
the world, do the right thing because right now there's
a lot of wrong being done.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
It's a lot of wrong and it's not.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Like it hasn't been that way and what we know
to be human history and our but it certainly feels
as if it is insurmountable or is Yeah, maybe because
we can tune in on everything at all times, whenever
we want. But that feeling, I think a lot of
people feel that way, and that's what inspired That's how
(05:10):
I feel, and that's what inspired the song.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
How do you toe the line between bringing in these
bigger issues like I know you've been active in issues
around immigration and mass incarceration, but you're also known for
making sensual, sexy baby making music, Like, how do you
toe the line and talk about both of these things
(05:35):
at the same time?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
I remind myself that as a human experience and people
who only focus on are who primarily focus on, you know,
speaking out about injustice, activism. Artists and musicians who who
do those things are also human beings, and they also,
you know, they have their own sexual life, they have
(05:58):
their own romantic relationships and their experience with those things,
and it's their prerogative to talk about those things when
they want, and it's their choice not too or to.
And this, for me, I think is probably top of
mind because this is the world that I'm inheriting, that
I've inherited, and I'm also in a position in my
(06:20):
age and my experience to hold myself accountable and I
can't not do that. I'm not twenty one or eighteen
when I wrote Quickie. It's a different thing, you know.
And so yeah, these things have become increasingly important in
my mind, and I think naturally that that is why
it's becoming more important to in my music.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Do you ever question, like, if there's someone you're working with,
like a producer, whoever's in the studio with you, do
you ever turn to them and say like, oh, is this?
Am I going too far with this?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Definitely?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Is this a downer? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
How does that work? I mean it's pretty much like that.
I'm like, is this too much?
Speaker 4 (07:05):
The great thing about I work with my friends, I
think I've learned that that's the best way to maintain
like that sense of play, the permission to explore.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I just want to work with my friends.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Man, I've done the transactional thing, and that shit sucks
all the time. One, it's rarely a collaboration because it's
easy to do shit, you know, remotely, so it's not
like we're getting in a room and we're really collaborating,
at least not in my experience. And when it's no
friendship in the middle. If that's not the thing, then
(07:42):
you got to go do some wax shit like promote
a song that you that you would never ever do
on your own. It would never come from your expression.
It's not your point of view. And I to a degree,
I can appreciate stepping into stepping into someone else's world
and remaining in your point of view and in your
style and you know, having a presence in a new way.
(08:04):
I think there's beautiful times when that's happened, but most
times it I think in the past when I've seen that,
it's been like people who really fuck with each other,
like they can go have they can go have a drink,
they like the same kind of movies, or have something
at the core that's like, oh no, like, I really
fuck with you. What happens when it's not like that?
It's like, now you got to go support not just
(08:26):
the song, but like the video and then the promo
behind it that turns out to be mad corny, and
then you find out the person is really just a politician,
and then you know what I mean, They're like, you
don't you could care less, Like it's easy to become
just some shit you don't want to do. So I
work with my friends and in a room when I'm
(08:47):
feeling like is this too much, they just be like
do that, No, just do your shit, like just do it,
do it, do it all. And most times the things
that don't fit naturally will sort of kind of like
they just get pushed to the side.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
How do you get in the proper headspace to cord
and to express yourself and to be vulnerable or to
be open. Have you found anything over the course of
your career that really gets you there? Like whether it's
like having a drink or like push ups or whatever
(09:24):
it is like a certain time of night, have you
found anything that gets you there?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I mean in different stages, has been different things. For sure,
alcohol was a big one, I mean a little tequila
in the past. Was it before it was whiskey like
Kaleidoscope dream is like whiskey and weed forties Nope, It's
like I don't know why I was drinking forties.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I was like like pounding forties.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
And yeah the aquila and wild Heart actually is the
quila into mescot. So I was like finding, Wow, I
was finding like mescov and smoking for sure Wildheart.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I'm like smoking a lot of weed.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
I also like, I think it's really it's really interesting
how drugs have influenced music along in these different periods
of time. I mean, like jazz, it's like speed, you
know what I mean, Like when jazz heroin right, it's
like ending right. Or you listen to grunge music and
you're like, yeah, heroin is this it's a heroin time.
(10:23):
You're listening to how crack and cocaine influenced you know,
hip hop, and it's it's play in that timeframe and
the emerging artists. Drugs and alcohol and all kinds of
illicit activity have always been a part of music and creativity,
whether it be fine art or music and fine art.
For me, getting in that headspace has been different in
(10:43):
each era. This time, this album. I mean, I still
love to drink. I hate to even say this, but like,
if I'm out and there's a photo of me, I
will guarantee you nine times out of ten I have
I love I love this guys social lubricat and I'm
(11:04):
very much a like introvert. Extrovert is like, I'm yeah, same,
I can do that extroverted thing. I very much like
to be for a time, for a time. The social
meter is not it's not a large social media, but
it exists. And I do think that you know, a
little mescal with uh with sparkling water and the lime
(11:25):
kind of extends the battery a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
That sounds nice, It sounds incredible right now.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
But yeah, you can go out for a period, but
then you want to like rush home and get into
the bean bag and just chill and just.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Right in this room with a record, you know what
I mean, in a conversation with a couple handful of
like really fun interesting people, and.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I'm good, yeah, yeah, no, I feel that very deeply.
What are you listening to these days? Like, is there
any new old music you've discovered or what have you
been reaching for.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
New old Well, this album in this period, I've been
really going back and like leaning into all all my
like more alternative tastes and then fluences, going back to
Pixie's records, going back to that whole grunge era, so
all of Nirvana, all of Sound Garden, all of that
(12:20):
sort of like you know Seattle area, Yeah yeah. Then
jumping into some of like jungle stuff has been a
big one. I've been like trying to find ways to
infuse rhythms and chord progressions that just are nostalgic or
styles that are nostalgic.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
To my to my youth.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
So kum Yah is one of those ones where you'll
hear a little bit of that, and like Francea, you'll
get a little bit of that in Chaos. I think overall,
what I was searching for in listening to music and
influences like anything that felt dissonant. I felt like there's
a rub there that that created the tension that I
was looking for.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Do you still feel in a place where you're recognizing
and thinking about chaos or has that all been exercised
out through the album?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
No.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
On the contrary, I.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Want to wield it more effectively. I mean my my
thinking on it is this like it's just about conditions
to grow are conditions in general? If it's not growing,
it's dead. Shout out to Lauren Hill. I mean, one
of the most poignant things that she said in an
interview is like, if it's not growing, it's dead. And
it's the truth. And for me, what I've realized is
(13:40):
that in many ways, I think I've I believe in
my core that we all need a little chaos to grow.
Maybe I'm wrong, I know for me that's the outside
of my depth that Bowie talks about is the place
where an artist really can thrive. It's the unknowing, it's
the uncertainty that pushes it outside of that comfort zone
(14:05):
that that means we need to stretch in not ways
that we necessarily know, but that we need. And so chaos,
I think in my life this album represents my acknowledgment
of the chaos that I've created in my life and
making peace with it in a lot of ways in
(14:26):
order to better utilize it for my purpose. And while
I'm here and I want to continue to curate chaos
in my life.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
How are you going to do that? How do you
curate chaos in your life right now, like intentionally like
mess up a situation just to get the feel that
feeling and kind of like use that for growth. Is
that what that means?
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Not toxic chasts. We don't want any more toxic chaos though.
Old habits die hard, And I think me stepping into
my adulthood and my responsibility is one way that I
ensure that the chaos that I do curate in my
life is really intentional. So I look at ways of
(15:12):
like how do I infuse something that is not obvious
and it's not normal or natural? So taking, I mean
what a simple way is like like I love that
port his head on three, Like switch up their whole
all of their their instruments instead of everyone is playing
a different instrument.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Every that's chaos to me because no one is in
a comfort zone when it's not.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
No, I understand that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
So I think of chaos in my life in that way.
We definitely don't want any any more toxicity. Yes, we
don't need it. It's I don't think that's necessary.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
No, especially not when you're approaching forty.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I want look, and that's it, isn't it. It's a
crazy thing because I know.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
For me, I wanted I want all stability.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Bruh.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I'm like, like I said, it is like I want
to I want peace in my life in general, but again,
controlled chaos in the right places, whether it's like shaking
up my team and infusing someone who's not in the
music business in a role that maybe is adjacent in
a different field, you know, in a different yeah field,
(16:24):
so that we have fresh thinking that we're we're not
approaching things in yeah with the constructs of the status
quo in mind. You know, it's like the chaos that
means we're breaking rules, but for with a purpose.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So did you realizing your place in the chaos or
maybe creating it in some way where you weren't completely
aware of it. Did you realize that through just natural
aging or was it through like therapy work. I know
you're about to turn forty and this album's coming out
(17:01):
on your fortieth birthday. Yeah, that seems like a really
big milestone, Like, how are you thinking about turning forty?
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I mean, I think for whatever reason, I've I wrote
this song when I was much younger that I that
we never put out called Hardway, which is like I
always learned the hard way. Actually, no, it's on it's
on the first album. What am I talking about? It's
on the first album. See my brain is oxidizing as
we speak. There's a song on the first album called
(17:32):
hard Way, and it's like I always learned the hard way,
and and I.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Hate to have like.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Maybe put that out in the that energy out there,
or I've accepted that. But in some ways I've been
able to see things before they happen and change course.
But in a lot of ways, you know, I have
learned the hard way, and I've been lucky to not
learn the hardest way. But I've got a few bruises
(17:58):
and scars, you know that that you know are reminders,
And I think that's the that's the journey of life.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Anyways.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
It's like Unterests Thompson, like not wanting to reach the
end pristine and clean, but with fire shooting out of
the back and screeching barely crossing the threshold. I think
something about that has always been the way that I imagine
my life kind of going. And thankfully it hasn't meant
(18:28):
that I have reached the finish line prematurely, and I've
been here at this point, I want to make sure
it doesn't happen prematurely. But I do know of its
seem like a healthy guy like or that's the key,
seem nah yeah, yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
You seem like healthy mind and body, like you're thinking
about it.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I mean, having the opportunity to do this every day,
you know, and to express one's selves and one's emotions,
I think is a key. And for me it's been
the true meditation of my life. And I found you know,
there's other tools that are super helpful. I think musicians
(19:11):
and artists and of all me, through through all mediums
do find real solace and peace when they're able to
create and they find that connection.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
To the higher thing.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
But overall, I don't want to paint I don't want
to paint myself into any corner where like I'm like
out here just causing havoc or anything like that. But
I do know that, you know, I've had to learn
some hard lessons like anyone in the world, and I
think I'm at a place in my life where I
want to be real intentional about you know, the past.
(19:46):
Let's taken that I really want to take, you know,
and ones that actually are worth my time, are worthy
of the effort, worthy of the risk, as opposed to
kind of going into things too haphazardly.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
We'll be back with more from Miguel after the break.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Was you getting into the suspension thing where you were
hanging from your piercings? That seems very chaotic to me?
Is that along the same lines of thinking for you?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
You know?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
The Tribby part about that is that even physiologically what
that does is it actually well, first and foremost, it's
like an adrenaline rush, right, and something about that is
very calming. I found it to be really meditative and
not chaotic. I mean, doing suspension has a different purpose
(20:40):
and meaning for every person that has ever done it
or that practices it. I wouldn't say that I practice suspension.
But the purpose of doing suspension at the time was
to open up a conversation that is relevant to this album,
and that is like, what is my relation to pain?
(21:01):
Why do I carry pain with pride? What pain am
I carrying that I'm not really addressing or acknowledging? And
how is that a part of the story I've written
about myself? How does that enabling? How is it fueling?
(21:23):
And how is it like holding me back. It was
about having that conversation and kind of like giving it
a visceral reference, but it was all about understanding pain
and wanting to talk about talk about it publicly, which
I believe we carried over into this album.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
What happened with that album it evolved.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
It definitely evolved. Viscera was initially it was initially meant
to be bad Habits sad Anthems, which I still think
is a fucking ill ast title. And then it became
not just me wanting to just do an album of
like kind of like the antithesis of what people know
(22:06):
most about my music, and I think that it's like
feel good, romantic, sensual dreamy to kind of go like,
all right, how do I shake this up and make
space for the other side of the coin, which is
like that I do have bad habits, that there are
sad anthems, and I wanted to do a whole album
(22:27):
about that, and I think I in that process it
was getting real heavy. It was like two even for me,
I was like, maybe some of this stays in the vault.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah. Did anything from that album carry out over to
the new album?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Yeah, I would say a good quarter of that record.
It was actually kind of like became what is chaos?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, the album is so good, by the way, or
what I've heard of the album is so great.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
That's really kind. Thank you so much, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I love the title track. Tell me about just the
overall sound for it and what your vision was for it,
how it came together.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
It started out I'd come up across a children's choir
on Instagram and they had done do you remember that
the THHXU? It was a crescendo, But it was kind
of like, yes, you go to the movies for those
of for those of you who aren't, you know who
don't haven't been to the movies back in like the
(23:27):
nineties or before that. You know, as you intro a movie,
they wanted to flex the sound in the room, and
very often the companies would have an audio kind of
intro to give you a sense of like the ability
and you know how incredible the sound system was and
I think it's thx Please correct me. I'm sure someone
will afterwards. But it was one of those companies that
(23:51):
it had this beautiful crescendo, a chordal crescendo, and these
kids were doing that that crescendo, but with their voices
a children's choir doing it a glissano up or a
port upwards. And I was like, man, this is so cool.
And I asked the children, so, you know, asked them
to come and they did, and they basically saying this
(24:12):
part it's just.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
A then.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
And they do like a that whole gliss report and
I just was like, this is the coolest shit.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And I was like, we got to use that.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Kind of sampled that first, and then I programmed like
a rough drum section that I felt was like I
wanted it to drive because I had this idea about
talking about just chaos and what chaos is place in
my life, and it just felt kind of the notes
(24:50):
felt like they were giving me that It's dramatic, you know,
it feels very dramatic, and it is kind of it
kind of pulls you in.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It's a little bit haunting too, it's a little bit creepy.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
It was just interesting the emotional context of visually watching
them really be in it and like kind of the
joy they're getting out of performing this thing.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
But then how the how it feels, how the notes.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Feel against each other, and I thought that was the
perfect place, and it sparked this idea that you know,
in my life, I've subconsciously, i think, curated chaos in
one way or the other in my life, and I've
i think I've finally kind of come to a place
where I'm understanding what that's about. I've never really taken
(25:31):
time to really look at it, and that really set
off the whole, the whole idea. It was like, man,
there's a there's a childlike part of me that plays
into this, and there's a joy that I get out
of it that I don't understand, and that's why the
first line is like I think I'm better under pressure,
and that sort of sets the stage for the album,
you know, and and the.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Rest kind of kind of unfolds as it goes. So cool.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
You mentioned earlier that for the title track, you made
sort of what sounds like a sketch of the beat,
and then you passed.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
It to Bray.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
That's my that's my one of my best friends, and
we've worked on this album a lot together, so we
produced the song together. But the drum programming specifically is
like that's his. I mean, he's incredible across the board,
but I mean the way the drums hit, that's definitely
his shit.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Working with him through this album, so on the technical
side and as a producer.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
So is that normally how it goes for you? Like
do you normally make sketches of the music and then
pass it to him or what's the process usually?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Like it varies kind of.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Starting with Kaleidoscope Dream, I really got in my executive
producer bag and really wanted to focus on the overall
vision of the album and what that was communicating.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Overall.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
I didn't produce, though I had. I was very much
involved in the sonic nature of Kaleidoscope Dream and that
kind of gave me a lot of confidence to actually
use my own production. The only song that I produced
on Kaleidoscope Dream is Adorn and that's like wow, top
to bottom. So it was kind of the first time
(27:20):
I had like I was.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Like, all right, fuck it, like they fuck with it.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
But I was very I wasn't sure if it was
if it was gonna work commercially or anything like that,
like if it was going to feel professionally enough.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Or what have you.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Really, Yeah, so that's the first time I really like
my production was released professionally and actually was you know,
became something that was a success commercially.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Wow. So yeah, does that make you feel like as
a producer, does that validate your skills and your ear?
Like what did that do to you as an artist?
Knowing how well that song did.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
I mean, it's definitely encouraging. But there's absolute levels. There
are levels to this shit. And the great thing about
me is like, I'm not so focused on on how
things sound sonically as much as I care about what
they how they feel, you know, And I think there's
(28:17):
a bit of ignorance that I always want to keep.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I kind of like that.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
I'm like, I don't really know like what I did there,
but it just felt right And that's maybe my own
my own idiosyncrasy or whatever. But there's definite levels to
this and it's it is a science for a lot
of people. That's why you that's there's incredibly successful producers
who know down to the just down to the t
on how to emphasize things in different ways to like.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
A doctor Dre like he's supposed to be like an
incredible engineer producer obviously.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
But also Dre like, yes, yes, but then you know,
Dre is different without Quick. You have to listen.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
You gotta know that DJ Quick is in there mixing
and carving in a way that gives that sound like
that's a lot of that is Quick's DNA And like
anybody who knows knows this Quick as is DJ Quick
is an incredible fucking engineer like and producer. So Dre
is Dre and it's always gonna be Dre. But you know,
(29:21):
like you're like we're saying, is like to know the
science of yes how as Cidic Dave Sidek is one
of my brothers and best friends. Also on this album
my one of my favorite things, and this is him
his theory on life. He's like, one cut is worth
a million boosts and that is so true across life,
(29:42):
across music. It's like it's not always about adding a
lot of times the magic is there because the magic
was instinctual, that was that came from something else. Your
your choice is in the in the inspirational moment, in
that oh I'm inspired now, all of those things that's
meant to be there. And then most times, and he
(30:04):
would say, you know, nine times out of ten, take
something out, cut something out, eq that out. What's the
most important part about that frequency. What's the most penetrating
part of that harmony, what's the most you know, what
is it in that in that in the feeling in
the music that we need to make sure we preserve
that's getting in the way of the emotional intention. So yeah,
(30:30):
learning how to do that more intimately and like on
a on a more like technical level is probably one
of the most enjoyable things. Working with you know close
like my boy, that's my He's not black, but that's
my nigga, Like you know, he's like he's that's my guy, right,
you know. And and I have I'm lucky to kind
of have really like brothers and best friends and like
(30:51):
spiritual warriors that I also get to work with. So
that was the I think that was the big learning
on this album. And there's some failings on this album
too that are that I kept that I that I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Like the focus on the negative, but a failing at
this point.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
But that's what I love about this conversation and I
love watching watching episodes of this is like the insight
that you get that's like really for the nerds and
who care about this shit? So I can like talk
shit about my own shit, like on this album is
about the feeling of the music, but like it's it's
(31:27):
really like a shitty it's my own shitty mix on
the record, and like you can hear it, like I'm
like playing it in any room, Like yep, that shit
could have been better, but it still feels like the
feeling of what I meant is still there, like kind
of like there is an angst in it. But it's
actually it's about the line. It's a line in the
(31:48):
first verse which is like I become a healer. I
forget myself and I become a healer, and that in
this mode, when I'm avoidant and leaning into my avoidant tendencies,
it often leads into wanting intimacy because it it allows
(32:09):
me to forget myself and my own shit.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
But at least you're aware of it. I feel like
that's the first step. You're not just doing things blindly
in a pattern over.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
And over till you die, you know, no, no, no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Are there any other songs on the album or any
other moments in the studio, anything that was where maybe
you had some sort of creative awakening or something different
that you can take away from this project. And maybe
use in the future.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Hmm.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Though it play though is like is a special one,
but there's a lot of these are I mean sonically,
I learned a lot, and and also in terms of
like melding genre, yeah, and sort of wielding the sticky
parts or the parts of certain genres that just I
(33:09):
a very they are very much a part of my identity,
infusing them together to make something that feels unique to me.
This was a really fun experience that I think will
inform the next couple records because I'm only I'm planning
on leaning more into my heritage and more like the
(33:31):
rhythms and approaches on both sides, but that are more
like ethnic, you know, like my ethnic influences and leaning
into those even more than I did this time, and
marrying them even more with my cultural influences. I feel,
(33:52):
I feel that I'm I'm right at the cusp of
something that's really uniquely mine. Finally, and I think which
is exciting for me is like going harder, going harder,
and leading into them more.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
One last break and will be back with Lee Rose
and Miguel.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I feel like You've always had such a strong point
of view and a lot of what you did early
on helped sort of birth this whole like all R
and B genre that is now just commonplace where it
didn't used to be commonplace at all.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
But when you say that you found, you feel like
you finally found your voice. What does that sound like like?
How would you describe that?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
I think the I think the rhythmic nature of that's
just a part of where my parents come from and
their experience and their parents come from. There is something
that is universal about that that.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I just have.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I feel we're just scratching the surface on on this record,
and it only happens in a couple places. I would
love to lean into that as well as that alternative.
I think the alternative, if you want to call it.
That influence in my music has always been there, and
so I want to experiment more with how I can
(35:12):
make those work together and then also make my you know,
my songwriting, make it more cohesive and sharpen my my
songwriting on the you know, on the Spanish side, I
think there's so much I'm excited to do that and
to work with incredible songwriters and learn from them because
(35:33):
there's a whole opportunity and unlocks the whole opportunity in
terms of connecting ideas and that don't work in English,
you know, so like the lateral thinking and the fun
part about songwriting is like how we're connecting one thing
to the next, not just by rhyme, but by like
the analogies, all of the all the literary tools and
how that can with that unlocks in terms of what
(35:54):
I can say.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, growing up, was there a lot of music in
the house, Like what was what role did music play
in your household?
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Music for me was was an escape when my parents
were still together, so that only goes into age eight.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
In the house was I mean hip hop, lots of funk.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
My dad was kind of a yacht rock loved yacht rock,
loved classic rock. He was a big Eagles fan, big
Bowie fan, loved the Beatles Queen. I mean, he was
a big Santana fan. War was big for him, earth
Wind and Fire massive, I mean, and these are all
(36:38):
this is that era, you know, we're talking about great
everything from the sixties on.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
He was like heavy into heavy, heavy into Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
What about your mom what was she into?
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Big soul fan, you know, anything motown, anything coming from
Detroit and anything that we would heart, you know, at
a function. You know that they would that they used
to dance to in high school because my parents were young,
so they had me at twenty three. I believe they're
the same age, twenty two, twenty three, and they met
(37:11):
in high school. So all the things that they were
they were enjoying in high school. Luther Vandros, you know
what I'm saying, All of these things that were in
the ether, Like I grew up in San Pedro an
art punk haven. I mean, all just the Ramones have
been through San Pedro. We've got we've got a lot
(37:34):
of great punk culture in San Pedro that I grew
up right around minute men, that's Pedro so and that's
in the eighties when I was born.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I was like really really.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Young, Like I'm talking about one to five going into
the nineties, like it had started to die down. But
the scene and the venues that were being played at
Firehouse we're talking about, these are like in within blocks
of my of where I grew up, you know, Like
I'm on Third and Center and we're talking about downtown
San Pedro is like three blocks away, and this is
(38:08):
like kind of like an epicenter of where a lot
of that energy is like really being expressed.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
And I grew so I grew.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Up around punks, I grew up around of course, I
grew up around you know, cholos and gangsters, and so
I got a lot of all of that.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, are you the kind of artist who has hundreds
of songs just like done on hand if you need
them or when you start a new project? Are you
very much like, all right, we got twelve, we got fourteen,
We're done, move on.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I wasn't. Before I took eight years to finish the album.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I was.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
I was very much like, no, we want to create
in the moment.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
This is what this is right here. I wouldn't say
I have hundreds of songs, but I definitely have more.
I have more songs that need to be cut and
never see the light of day or ever need to
be heard right anyone then I usually would, But I
also say there's a lot of songs that I still
(39:11):
want to use for you know, future albums or the
next album. Would I would prefer to remake for the
music to feel very current, And yeah, you know for me.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And you always have struck me as a person who
is creative first, meaning the most important thing for you
is just to make things and how people categorize or
maybe even interpret those things that come.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Second.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Does that sound accurate?
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Super accurate? I think breaking free of the expectation is
a big part of what I've needed to I needed
to kind of step away and re calibrate on because
in the beginning, I think we start with all the
excitement and possibility, and we mimic with no judgment. We
(40:03):
imitate with a sense of play and excitement of what
is possible to program our bodies to do, you know,
And there's so much honesty and that jumping off place
and allowing oneself to just explore and to be excited
(40:24):
by what comes out, even if it's shit, you know
what I mean, Because I've got more terrible things in
the vault. That's just you know, it's even funny to
go listen and go it's pretty funny, Like I see
what I was trying to do there, and to hear
the play in it, the exploration, the things that are
wrong but that are right, the things that hit a
(40:46):
chord within you know when you listen to it, and
the things that are just trash, and you know to
give it, to give it that kind of energy is
making that right change in the right place, or everybody
on the same page, catching up, feeling to move into
(41:08):
another phrase or whatever that thing is. When you when
you're able to do that and it garner attention, well
then it's easy to lose sight of the whole, the thing,
the glue, the purpose in it in the first place.
And I think I wasn't doing enough calibrating along the way.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
You know, do you.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Have any musical mentors or people in the business or
in your position or in a similar position that you
can talk to honestly and be like, look, I'm feeling
lost right now, I need help. Is there anybody who
you can go to as a guide.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
Throughout my career, I've mentioned Mark Mark Pitts as kind
of one of those ones who believed early and had
he had the leverage and the reputation to convince a
lot of people who otherwise would have wrote me off,
cut their losses and moved on, so to speak, when
(42:09):
it wasn't all profitable, you know, when it was looking
like there wasn't a way forward. That was someone that
I could always call on and trust to give. Not
business insight alone, I think more human insight, and so
he was someone that I could always call on, but
(42:30):
through life, through my life, I think it'll always be
my family. I got lucky and I have an incredible,
incredible mother and father who have been, you know, truly
truly upfront about what they do and do not know,
even when I was, you know, too young enough to
(42:51):
care about it. They've always been there to kind of Mike,
you know, that's not right, Mike, you know, and give
me the thing that I need to hear that I
can trust is coming from a really pure place, you know.
So I got lucky, and that's in fact. You know,
my brother is one of my best friends, nonchalant, He's
(43:12):
on this album. And I've gotten lucky to have just
great people along the way, including my you know, my team.
Drew has been with me for years. Anyone who knows
me and has been we've done business.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
With knows Drew. That's my guy. He's my right hand.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
He's been with me since I since my first real
check performing outside of Los Angeles. You know, he literally
was at my very first show way up in Connecticut.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Oh, in Connecticut.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
Yeah, it was in Connecticut, a thousand dollars show to
perform all I want is you at a club, you know,
and it's like this, this is like someone who's been
with me for you know, a decade plus more than
you know, so we're talking about fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years. Yeah,
I've been lucky to have people that I can trust,
you know, but I've also yeah that's awesome. Yeah, yeah,
(44:00):
I've gotten lucky in that way. So those are the
people that I would I could lean on to kind
of be like, hey man, you swerve it, you swerve
it hard right now.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Yeah. One thing I wanted to ask you before we go,
I wanted to ask you about the visuals for Chaos
for the title track, So cool, m h, what are
you wearing? And where did all that come from?
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Banger as I As I kind of mentioned, like the
themes of the album or the theme of the album
is really centered around, you know, the purpose of chaos
in my life and what I'm learning because of it
and what I need to make peace with and in
just kind of doing reading and some research on where
(44:48):
I come from.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
My family is.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
From a region in Mexico that a tribe is from,
so by blood, I have lineage to a tribe called
the Booty patcha. I think it's Booty Patch. I might
be killing the name Booty Pecha. But the only tribe
in the region to not be conquered by the Aztec.
They're like valley, They're like warriors, you know, and they
were never conquered. So like kind of doing deep dives
(45:16):
into like my heritage where my family is from, and
it kind of led me to find a celebration in
Mexico called Son of the Diablos, which is the dance
of the of the devils. And contrary to what the set,
what the title suggests, it's actually a celebration, a commemoration
of slaves in Mexico, African slaves and Mexican slaves freeing
(45:40):
themselves from their masters.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
And the visuals are an homage to this idea that
I'm making peace with. I'm addressing and freeing myself in
some ways from my own demons.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
How did it feel to put the clothes on? I'm
powerful in itself just wearing the clothes.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
It's hot as fuck because it's so many layers. That
shit is just hot. I'm talking about like a scarf
on the head and then another scarfs around your neck
and you gotta chivas and yes you got boots, huh, like.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
The chaps, right, yeah, yeah, that's a that's the chaps
that they wear.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Chaps, but like fur.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah it's goat here. Yeah yeah it looks sick, but
it does feel. It does give you a whole other feeling.
And I and I want to I wanted to make
sure that we were paying homage, but not like ripping it,
you know, and it just being like a full yank.
So the key elements that I feel really resonated with me.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
And where the chivaras and.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
The garb appear, I think, because what that what that
actually is for, is like to protect the face from
the mask. And the artisans that make these masks, there's
only a handful that are like known to be like them.
It's like like a sort like a swordsmith. If you're
a samurai, you want this kind of lathe. So in
(47:10):
the same way, the makers of the garbs, they're artisans
that are like these are the guys you go to.
And the masks are pretty heavy. These shits are like
wooden masks, and then they've got you know, they're all
very different and they're ornate and in different ways.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
But them.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
Shits is heavy and when you put it on, if
you don't have anything to protect your head, it's gonna
like it's gonna hurt you.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
The sheer weight.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
And then the movement with it on also, it moves
around and shit. So the garb is kind of like
in anti anticipation of putting on the mask.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
But that's another way to process pain, you know, exager
pain in a different way.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
Which is the reason why you won't really see me,
because I think the purpose of this album and the
proposition is that I'm making peace with my demon, so
I don't have to wear a mask, you know, I'm
freeing myself of them.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, all I love all considered.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, well, thank you so much Michael for talking about
this album and for making the album. Man, thank you,
best of luck. I can't wait to see what comes next.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
Yeah, Thanksley, appreciate your time. Great to hang and hopefully
you see you again soon.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
In an episode description, you'll find a link to a
playlist of our favorite Miguel tracks. Be sure to check
out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to see
all of our video and others, and be sure to
follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod You
can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing and
help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is
(48:50):
Ben Holliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries. If
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and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast. Aff Our theme music
(49:12):
expect Anny Beats. I'm justin Richmond, h
Pushkin. Miguel, the Grammy winning ALTS R and B pioneer,
is back with a new album, Chaos, his first full
length in eight years. It's the latest step in a
career that's always pushed the boundaries of R and B,
from his twenty ten debut, through albums that dabbled in psychedelia,
(00:35):
dance music, and now touches of eighties industrial and even rancherrhythms.
On today's episode, Miguel talks with Lea Rose about his
unreleased twenty twenty three album Viscera, and how suspending himself
from piercings in his back during its rollout helped him
surrender control. He also shares a story behind the controversial
imagery for his single New Martyrs, and despite collaborations with
(00:57):
Travis Scott, Mariah Carey, and Tamimpala, Miguel explains why he's
happiest just making music with his friends. This is broken record,
real musicians, real conversations. Here's Lea Rose in conversation with Miguel.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Okay, so I want to ask you about the song
New Martyrs. I'm curious how you came upon the artwork
for the song and tell me what the artwork is
how you came up with the idea and what the
thinking is behind it.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
So the artwork is.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Almost like a meme because you know, this year, I
think seeing Luigi Mangioni, you know, carry out what he
felt was right, regardless of what it meant in terms
of the law, and morally, seeing how that played out
(01:58):
and how that resonated with so many people with their
anger and their angst. And I'm going to go out
on a limb here and say the disenfranchised and powerless
feeling of watching a political system sort of cannibalize itself
right in front of you, and see how corporate interest
(02:19):
is really infiltrated and manipulated what is meant to be
an equitable process and all inclusive process.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It really is infuriating.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And to see people really get behind an action that
feels like vigilanteism in any other case would be considered
absolutely wrong, unjust, but having that context and then also
understanding the story behind the personal injustice that behind the execution,
(02:52):
you know, seeing how people respond to that is like
even I'm like, nah, yeah, I mean, you're really putting
your money before people's health, You're overlooking your humanity for
your own greed, and I feel this is a something
that hit me so hard that I had to really
(03:13):
look at myself and go, I mean, am I wrong
for a kind of being in agreement?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
You know?
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Am I wrong for feeling like he kind of did
the right thing on behalf of a lot of people
who've been shitted on, you know, and more importantly, like,
who have you know, had their loved ones at the
cost of their loved ones, of their own lives of
you know, so real humanity, you know, at the cost
of humanity. I think this is something we're going to
(03:42):
see more and more as we continue. I think that's
a domino until there's some real correction, you know, until
there's some real justice established and awaited to make right
on things moving forward. I think that's why I have
this dream where I'm like kind of like just doing
(04:03):
what I feel is right, even though it may seem wrong.
It's very much inspired by seeing that happen, seeing their response,
and also addressing my own angst, my own anger and
dissatisfaction with the world as it is not just this country,
and so New Martyrs is about that line towards the
(04:25):
end where it's like, yeah, give me what's mine. I
think a lot of people feel that way, and more
and more people are going to feel that way more so.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
What's behind that is like.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Do right by me and right by us, right by
the world, do the right thing because right now there's
a lot of wrong being done.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
It's a lot of wrong and it's not.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Like it hasn't been that way and what we know
to be human history and our but it certainly feels
as if it is insurmountable or is Yeah, maybe because
we can tune in on everything at all times, whenever
we want. But that feeling, I think a lot of
people feel that way, and that's what inspired That's how
(05:10):
I feel, and that's what inspired the song.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
How do you toe the line between bringing in these
bigger issues like I know you've been active in issues
around immigration and mass incarceration, but you're also known for
making sensual, sexy baby making music, Like, how do you
toe the line and talk about both of these things
(05:35):
at the same time?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
I remind myself that as a human experience and people
who only focus on are who primarily focus on, you know,
speaking out about injustice, activism. Artists and musicians who who
do those things are also human beings, and they also,
you know, they have their own sexual life, they have
(05:58):
their own romantic relationships and their experience with those things,
and it's their prerogative to talk about those things when
they want, and it's their choice not too or to.
And this, for me, I think is probably top of
mind because this is the world that I'm inheriting, that
I've inherited, and I'm also in a position in my
(06:20):
age and my experience to hold myself accountable and I
can't not do that. I'm not twenty one or eighteen
when I wrote Quickie. It's a different thing, you know.
And so yeah, these things have become increasingly important in
my mind, and I think naturally that that is why
it's becoming more important to in my music.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Do you ever question, like, if there's someone you're working with,
like a producer, whoever's in the studio with you, do
you ever turn to them and say like, oh, is this?
Am I going too far with this?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Definitely?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Is this a downer? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
How does that work? I mean it's pretty much like that.
I'm like, is this too much?
Speaker 4 (07:05):
The great thing about I work with my friends, I
think I've learned that that's the best way to maintain
like that sense of play, the permission to explore.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I just want to work with my friends.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Man, I've done the transactional thing, and that shit sucks
all the time. One, it's rarely a collaboration because it's
easy to do shit, you know, remotely, so it's not
like we're getting in a room and we're really collaborating,
at least not in my experience. And when it's no
friendship in the middle. If that's not the thing, then
(07:42):
you got to go do some wax shit like promote
a song that you that you would never ever do
on your own. It would never come from your expression.
It's not your point of view. And I to a degree,
I can appreciate stepping into stepping into someone else's world
and remaining in your point of view and in your
style and you know, having a presence in a new way.
(08:04):
I think there's beautiful times when that's happened, but most
times it I think in the past when I've seen that,
it's been like people who really fuck with each other,
like they can go have they can go have a drink,
they like the same kind of movies, or have something
at the core that's like, oh no, like, I really
fuck with you. What happens when it's not like that?
It's like, now you got to go support not just
(08:26):
the song, but like the video and then the promo
behind it that turns out to be mad corny, and
then you find out the person is really just a politician,
and then you know what I mean, They're like, you
don't you could care less, Like it's easy to become
just some shit you don't want to do. So I
work with my friends and in a room when I'm
(08:47):
feeling like is this too much, they just be like
do that, No, just do your shit, like just do it,
do it, do it all. And most times the things
that don't fit naturally will sort of kind of like
they just get pushed to the side.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
How do you get in the proper headspace to cord
and to express yourself and to be vulnerable or to
be open. Have you found anything over the course of
your career that really gets you there? Like whether it's
like having a drink or like push ups or whatever
(09:24):
it is like a certain time of night, have you
found anything that gets you there?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
I mean in different stages, has been different things. For sure,
alcohol was a big one, I mean a little tequila
in the past. Was it before it was whiskey like
Kaleidoscope dream is like whiskey and weed forties Nope, It's
like I don't know why I was drinking forties.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I was like like pounding forties.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
And yeah the aquila and wild Heart actually is the
quila into mescot. So I was like finding, Wow, I
was finding like mescov and smoking for sure Wildheart.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I'm like smoking a lot of weed.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
I also like, I think it's really it's really interesting
how drugs have influenced music along in these different periods
of time. I mean, like jazz, it's like speed, you
know what I mean, Like when jazz heroin right, it's
like ending right. Or you listen to grunge music and
you're like, yeah, heroin is this it's a heroin time.
(10:23):
You're listening to how crack and cocaine influenced you know,
hip hop, and it's it's play in that timeframe and
the emerging artists. Drugs and alcohol and all kinds of
illicit activity have always been a part of music and creativity,
whether it be fine art or music and fine art.
For me, getting in that headspace has been different in
(10:43):
each era. This time, this album. I mean, I still
love to drink. I hate to even say this, but like,
if I'm out and there's a photo of me, I
will guarantee you nine times out of ten I have
I love I love this guys social lubricat and I'm
(11:04):
very much a like introvert. Extrovert is like, I'm yeah, same,
I can do that extroverted thing. I very much like
to be for a time, for a time. The social
meter is not it's not a large social media, but
it exists. And I do think that you know, a
little mescal with uh with sparkling water and the lime
(11:25):
kind of extends the battery a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
That sounds nice, It sounds incredible right now.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
But yeah, you can go out for a period, but
then you want to like rush home and get into
the bean bag and just chill and just.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Right in this room with a record, you know what
I mean, in a conversation with a couple handful of
like really fun interesting people, and.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I'm good, yeah, yeah, no, I feel that very deeply.
What are you listening to these days? Like, is there
any new old music you've discovered or what have you
been reaching for.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
New old Well, this album in this period, I've been
really going back and like leaning into all all my
like more alternative tastes and then fluences, going back to
Pixie's records, going back to that whole grunge era, so
all of Nirvana, all of Sound Garden, all of that
(12:20):
sort of like you know Seattle area, Yeah yeah. Then
jumping into some of like jungle stuff has been a
big one. I've been like trying to find ways to
infuse rhythms and chord progressions that just are nostalgic or
styles that are nostalgic.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
To my to my youth.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
So kum Yah is one of those ones where you'll
hear a little bit of that, and like Francea, you'll
get a little bit of that in Chaos. I think overall,
what I was searching for in listening to music and
influences like anything that felt dissonant. I felt like there's
a rub there that that created the tension that I
was looking for.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Do you still feel in a place where you're recognizing
and thinking about chaos or has that all been exercised
out through the album?
Speaker 4 (13:13):
No.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
On the contrary, I.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Want to wield it more effectively. I mean my my
thinking on it is this like it's just about conditions
to grow are conditions in general? If it's not growing,
it's dead. Shout out to Lauren Hill. I mean, one
of the most poignant things that she said in an
interview is like, if it's not growing, it's dead. And
it's the truth. And for me, what I've realized is
(13:40):
that in many ways, I think I've I believe in
my core that we all need a little chaos to grow.
Maybe I'm wrong, I know for me that's the outside
of my depth that Bowie talks about is the place
where an artist really can thrive. It's the unknowing, it's
the uncertainty that pushes it outside of that comfort zone
(14:05):
that that means we need to stretch in not ways
that we necessarily know, but that we need. And so chaos,
I think in my life this album represents my acknowledgment
of the chaos that I've created in my life and
making peace with it in a lot of ways in
(14:26):
order to better utilize it for my purpose. And while
I'm here and I want to continue to curate chaos
in my life.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
How are you going to do that? How do you
curate chaos in your life right now, like intentionally like
mess up a situation just to get the feel that
feeling and kind of like use that for growth. Is
that what that means?
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Not toxic chasts. We don't want any more toxic chaos though.
Old habits die hard, And I think me stepping into
my adulthood and my responsibility is one way that I
ensure that the chaos that I do curate in my
life is really intentional. So I look at ways of
(15:12):
like how do I infuse something that is not obvious
and it's not normal or natural? So taking, I mean
what a simple way is like like I love that
port his head on three, Like switch up their whole
all of their their instruments instead of everyone is playing
a different instrument.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Every that's chaos to me because no one is in
a comfort zone when it's not.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
No, I understand that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
So I think of chaos in my life in that way.
We definitely don't want any any more toxicity. Yes, we
don't need it. It's I don't think that's necessary.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
No, especially not when you're approaching forty.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I want look, and that's it, isn't it. It's a
crazy thing because I know.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
For me, I wanted I want all stability.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Bruh.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I'm like, like I said, it is like I want
to I want peace in my life in general, but again,
controlled chaos in the right places, whether it's like shaking
up my team and infusing someone who's not in the
music business in a role that maybe is adjacent in
a different field, you know, in a different yeah field,
(16:24):
so that we have fresh thinking that we're we're not
approaching things in yeah with the constructs of the status
quo in mind. You know, it's like the chaos that
means we're breaking rules, but for with a purpose.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So did you realizing your place in the chaos or
maybe creating it in some way where you weren't completely
aware of it. Did you realize that through just natural
aging or was it through like therapy work. I know
you're about to turn forty and this album's coming out
(17:01):
on your fortieth birthday. Yeah, that seems like a really
big milestone, Like, how are you thinking about turning forty?
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I mean, I think for whatever reason, I've I wrote
this song when I was much younger that I that
we never put out called Hardway, which is like I
always learned the hard way. Actually, no, it's on it's
on the first album. What am I talking about? It's
on the first album. See my brain is oxidizing as
we speak. There's a song on the first album called
(17:32):
hard Way, and it's like I always learned the hard way,
and and I.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Hate to have like.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Maybe put that out in the that energy out there,
or I've accepted that. But in some ways I've been
able to see things before they happen and change course.
But in a lot of ways, you know, I have
learned the hard way, and I've been lucky to not
learn the hardest way. But I've got a few bruises
(17:58):
and scars, you know that that you know are reminders,
And I think that's the that's the journey of life.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Anyways.
Speaker 4 (18:07):
It's like Unterests Thompson, like not wanting to reach the
end pristine and clean, but with fire shooting out of
the back and screeching barely crossing the threshold. I think
something about that has always been the way that I imagine
my life kind of going. And thankfully it hasn't meant
(18:28):
that I have reached the finish line prematurely, and I've
been here at this point, I want to make sure
it doesn't happen prematurely. But I do know of its
seem like a healthy guy like or that's the key,
seem nah yeah, yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
You seem like healthy mind and body, like you're thinking
about it.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I mean, having the opportunity to do this every day,
you know, and to express one's selves and one's emotions,
I think is a key. And for me it's been
the true meditation of my life. And I found you know,
there's other tools that are super helpful. I think musicians
(19:11):
and artists and of all me, through through all mediums
do find real solace and peace when they're able to
create and they find that connection.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
To the higher thing.
Speaker 4 (19:23):
But overall, I don't want to paint I don't want
to paint myself into any corner where like I'm like
out here just causing havoc or anything like that. But
I do know that, you know, I've had to learn
some hard lessons like anyone in the world, and I
think I'm at a place in my life where I
want to be real intentional about you know, the past.
(19:46):
Let's taken that I really want to take, you know,
and ones that actually are worth my time, are worthy
of the effort, worthy of the risk, as opposed to
kind of going into things too haphazardly.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
We'll be back with more from Miguel after the break.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Was you getting into the suspension thing where you were
hanging from your piercings? That seems very chaotic to me?
Is that along the same lines of thinking for you?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
You know?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
The Tribby part about that is that even physiologically what
that does is it actually well, first and foremost, it's
like an adrenaline rush, right, and something about that is
very calming. I found it to be really meditative and
not chaotic. I mean, doing suspension has a different purpose
(20:40):
and meaning for every person that has ever done it
or that practices it. I wouldn't say that I practice suspension.
But the purpose of doing suspension at the time was
to open up a conversation that is relevant to this album,
and that is like, what is my relation to pain?
(21:01):
Why do I carry pain with pride? What pain am
I carrying that I'm not really addressing or acknowledging? And
how is that a part of the story I've written
about myself? How does that enabling? How is it fueling?
(21:23):
And how is it like holding me back. It was
about having that conversation and kind of like giving it
a visceral reference, but it was all about understanding pain
and wanting to talk about talk about it publicly, which
I believe we carried over into this album.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
What happened with that album it evolved.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
It definitely evolved. Viscera was initially it was initially meant
to be bad Habits sad Anthems, which I still think
is a fucking ill ast title. And then it became
not just me wanting to just do an album of
like kind of like the antithesis of what people know
(22:06):
most about my music, and I think that it's like
feel good, romantic, sensual dreamy to kind of go like,
all right, how do I shake this up and make
space for the other side of the coin, which is
like that I do have bad habits, that there are
sad anthems, and I wanted to do a whole album
(22:27):
about that, and I think I in that process it
was getting real heavy. It was like two even for me,
I was like, maybe some of this stays in the vault.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah. Did anything from that album carry out over to
the new album?
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Yeah, I would say a good quarter of that record.
It was actually kind of like became what is chaos?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, the album is so good, by the way, or
what I've heard of the album is so great.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
That's really kind. Thank you so much, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I love the title track. Tell me about just the
overall sound for it and what your vision was for it,
how it came together.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
It started out I'd come up across a children's choir
on Instagram and they had done do you remember that
the THHXU? It was a crescendo, But it was kind
of like, yes, you go to the movies for those
of for those of you who aren't, you know who
don't haven't been to the movies back in like the
(23:27):
nineties or before that. You know, as you intro a movie,
they wanted to flex the sound in the room, and
very often the companies would have an audio kind of
intro to give you a sense of like the ability
and you know how incredible the sound system was and
I think it's thx Please correct me. I'm sure someone
will afterwards. But it was one of those companies that
(23:51):
it had this beautiful crescendo, a chordal crescendo, and these
kids were doing that that crescendo, but with their voices
a children's choir doing it a glissano up or a
port upwards. And I was like, man, this is so cool.
And I asked the children, so, you know, asked them
to come and they did, and they basically saying this
(24:12):
part it's just.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
A then.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
And they do like a that whole gliss report and
I just was like, this is the coolest shit.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And I was like, we got to use that.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Kind of sampled that first, and then I programmed like
a rough drum section that I felt was like I
wanted it to drive because I had this idea about
talking about just chaos and what chaos is place in
my life, and it just felt kind of the notes
(24:50):
felt like they were giving me that It's dramatic, you know,
it feels very dramatic, and it is kind of it
kind of pulls you in.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It's a little bit haunting too, it's a little bit creepy.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
It was just interesting the emotional context of visually watching
them really be in it and like kind of the
joy they're getting out of performing this thing.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
But then how the how it feels, how the notes.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Feel against each other, and I thought that was the
perfect place, and it sparked this idea that you know,
in my life, I've subconsciously, i think, curated chaos in
one way or the other in my life, and I've
i think I've finally kind of come to a place
where I'm understanding what that's about. I've never really taken
(25:31):
time to really look at it, and that really set
off the whole, the whole idea. It was like, man,
there's a there's a childlike part of me that plays
into this, and there's a joy that I get out
of it that I don't understand, and that's why the
first line is like I think I'm better under pressure,
and that sort of sets the stage for the album,
you know, and and the.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Rest kind of kind of unfolds as it goes. So cool.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
You mentioned earlier that for the title track, you made
sort of what sounds like a sketch of the beat,
and then you passed.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
It to Bray.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
That's my that's my one of my best friends, and
we've worked on this album a lot together, so we
produced the song together. But the drum programming specifically is
like that's his. I mean, he's incredible across the board,
but I mean the way the drums hit, that's definitely
his shit.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Working with him through this album, so on the technical
side and as a producer.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
So is that normally how it goes for you? Like
do you normally make sketches of the music and then
pass it to him or what's the process usually?
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Like it varies kind of.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Starting with Kaleidoscope Dream, I really got in my executive
producer bag and really wanted to focus on the overall
vision of the album and what that was communicating.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Overall.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
I didn't produce, though I had. I was very much
involved in the sonic nature of Kaleidoscope Dream and that
kind of gave me a lot of confidence to actually
use my own production. The only song that I produced
on Kaleidoscope Dream is Adorn and that's like wow, top
to bottom. So it was kind of the first time
(27:20):
I had like I was.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Like, all right, fuck it, like they fuck with it.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
But I was very I wasn't sure if it was
if it was gonna work commercially or anything like that,
like if it was going to feel professionally enough.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Or what have you.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Really, Yeah, so that's the first time I really like
my production was released professionally and actually was you know,
became something that was a success commercially.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Wow. So yeah, does that make you feel like as
a producer, does that validate your skills and your ear?
Like what did that do to you as an artist?
Knowing how well that song did.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
I mean, it's definitely encouraging. But there's absolute levels. There
are levels to this shit. And the great thing about
me is like, I'm not so focused on on how
things sound sonically as much as I care about what
they how they feel, you know, And I think there's
(28:17):
a bit of ignorance that I always want to keep.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I kind of like that.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
I'm like, I don't really know like what I did there,
but it just felt right And that's maybe my own
my own idiosyncrasy or whatever. But there's definite levels to
this and it's it is a science for a lot
of people. That's why you that's there's incredibly successful producers
who know down to the just down to the t
on how to emphasize things in different ways to like.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
A doctor Dre like he's supposed to be like an
incredible engineer producer obviously.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
But also Dre like, yes, yes, but then you know,
Dre is different without Quick. You have to listen.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
You gotta know that DJ Quick is in there mixing
and carving in a way that gives that sound like
that's a lot of that is Quick's DNA And like
anybody who knows knows this Quick as is DJ Quick
is an incredible fucking engineer like and producer. So Dre
is Dre and it's always gonna be Dre. But you know,
(29:21):
like you're like we're saying, is like to know the
science of yes how as Cidic Dave Sidek is one
of my brothers and best friends. Also on this album
my one of my favorite things, and this is him
his theory on life. He's like, one cut is worth
a million boosts and that is so true across life,
(29:42):
across music. It's like it's not always about adding a
lot of times the magic is there because the magic
was instinctual, that was that came from something else. Your
your choice is in the in the inspirational moment, in
that oh I'm inspired now, all of those things that's
meant to be there. And then most times, and he
(30:04):
would say, you know, nine times out of ten, take
something out, cut something out, eq that out. What's the
most important part about that frequency. What's the most penetrating
part of that harmony, what's the most you know, what
is it in that in that in the feeling in
the music that we need to make sure we preserve
that's getting in the way of the emotional intention. So yeah,
(30:30):
learning how to do that more intimately and like on
a on a more like technical level is probably one
of the most enjoyable things. Working with you know close
like my boy, that's my He's not black, but that's
my nigga, Like you know, he's like he's that's my guy, right,
you know. And and I have I'm lucky to kind
of have really like brothers and best friends and like
(30:51):
spiritual warriors that I also get to work with. So
that was the I think that was the big learning
on this album. And there's some failings on this album
too that are that I kept that I that I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Like the focus on the negative, but a failing at
this point.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
But that's what I love about this conversation and I
love watching watching episodes of this is like the insight
that you get that's like really for the nerds and
who care about this shit? So I can like talk
shit about my own shit, like on this album is
about the feeling of the music, but like it's it's
(31:27):
really like a shitty it's my own shitty mix on
the record, and like you can hear it, like I'm
like playing it in any room, Like yep, that shit
could have been better, but it still feels like the
feeling of what I meant is still there, like kind
of like there is an angst in it. But it's
actually it's about the line. It's a line in the
(31:48):
first verse which is like I become a healer. I
forget myself and I become a healer, and that in
this mode, when I'm avoidant and leaning into my avoidant tendencies,
it often leads into wanting intimacy because it it allows
(32:09):
me to forget myself and my own shit.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
But at least you're aware of it. I feel like
that's the first step. You're not just doing things blindly
in a pattern over.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
And over till you die, you know, no, no, no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Are there any other songs on the album or any
other moments in the studio, anything that was where maybe
you had some sort of creative awakening or something different
that you can take away from this project. And maybe
use in the future.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Hmm.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Though it play though is like is a special one,
but there's a lot of these are I mean sonically,
I learned a lot, and and also in terms of
like melding genre, yeah, and sort of wielding the sticky
parts or the parts of certain genres that just I
(33:09):
a very they are very much a part of my identity,
infusing them together to make something that feels unique to me.
This was a really fun experience that I think will
inform the next couple records because I'm only I'm planning
on leaning more into my heritage and more like the
(33:31):
rhythms and approaches on both sides, but that are more
like ethnic, you know, like my ethnic influences and leaning
into those even more than I did this time, and
marrying them even more with my cultural influences. I feel,
(33:52):
I feel that I'm I'm right at the cusp of
something that's really uniquely mine. Finally, and I think which
is exciting for me is like going harder, going harder,
and leading into them more.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
One last break and will be back with Lee Rose
and Miguel.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I feel like You've always had such a strong point
of view and a lot of what you did early
on helped sort of birth this whole like all R
and B genre that is now just commonplace where it
didn't used to be commonplace at all.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
But when you say that you found, you feel like
you finally found your voice. What does that sound like like?
How would you describe that?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
I think the I think the rhythmic nature of that's
just a part of where my parents come from and
their experience and their parents come from. There is something
that is universal about that that.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
I just have.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I feel we're just scratching the surface on on this record,
and it only happens in a couple places. I would
love to lean into that as well as that alternative.
I think the alternative, if you want to call it.
That influence in my music has always been there, and
so I want to experiment more with how I can
(35:12):
make those work together and then also make my you know,
my songwriting, make it more cohesive and sharpen my my
songwriting on the you know, on the Spanish side, I
think there's so much I'm excited to do that and
to work with incredible songwriters and learn from them because
(35:33):
there's a whole opportunity and unlocks the whole opportunity in
terms of connecting ideas and that don't work in English,
you know, so like the lateral thinking and the fun
part about songwriting is like how we're connecting one thing
to the next, not just by rhyme, but by like
the analogies, all of the all the literary tools and
how that can with that unlocks in terms of what
(35:54):
I can say.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, growing up, was there a lot of music in
the house, Like what was what role did music play
in your household?
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Music for me was was an escape when my parents
were still together, so that only goes into age eight.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
In the house was I mean hip hop, lots of funk.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
My dad was kind of a yacht rock loved yacht rock,
loved classic rock. He was a big Eagles fan, big
Bowie fan, loved the Beatles Queen. I mean, he was
a big Santana fan. War was big for him, earth
Wind and Fire massive, I mean, and these are all
(36:38):
this is that era, you know, we're talking about great
everything from the sixties on.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
He was like heavy into heavy, heavy into Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
What about your mom what was she into?
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Big soul fan, you know, anything motown, anything coming from
Detroit and anything that we would heart, you know, at
a function. You know that they would that they used
to dance to in high school because my parents were young,
so they had me at twenty three. I believe they're
the same age, twenty two, twenty three, and they met
(37:11):
in high school. So all the things that they were
they were enjoying in high school. Luther Vandros, you know
what I'm saying, All of these things that were in
the ether, Like I grew up in San Pedro an
art punk haven. I mean, all just the Ramones have
been through San Pedro. We've got we've got a lot
(37:34):
of great punk culture in San Pedro that I grew
up right around minute men, that's Pedro so and that's
in the eighties when I was born.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I was like really really.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Young, Like I'm talking about one to five going into
the nineties, like it had started to die down. But
the scene and the venues that were being played at
Firehouse we're talking about, these are like in within blocks
of my of where I grew up, you know, Like
I'm on Third and Center and we're talking about downtown
San Pedro is like three blocks away, and this is
(38:08):
like kind of like an epicenter of where a lot
of that energy is like really being expressed.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
And I grew so I grew.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Up around punks, I grew up around of course, I
grew up around you know, cholos and gangsters, and so
I got a lot of all of that.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, are you the kind of artist who has hundreds
of songs just like done on hand if you need
them or when you start a new project? Are you
very much like, all right, we got twelve, we got fourteen,
We're done, move on.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I wasn't. Before I took eight years to finish the album.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I was.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
I was very much like, no, we want to create
in the moment.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
This is what this is right here. I wouldn't say
I have hundreds of songs, but I definitely have more.
I have more songs that need to be cut and
never see the light of day or ever need to
be heard right anyone then I usually would, But I
also say there's a lot of songs that I still
(39:11):
want to use for you know, future albums or the
next album. Would I would prefer to remake for the
music to feel very current, And yeah, you know for me.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And you always have struck me as a person who
is creative first, meaning the most important thing for you
is just to make things and how people categorize or
maybe even interpret those things that come.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Second.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Does that sound accurate?
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Super accurate? I think breaking free of the expectation is
a big part of what I've needed to I needed
to kind of step away and re calibrate on because
in the beginning, I think we start with all the
excitement and possibility, and we mimic with no judgment. We
(40:03):
imitate with a sense of play and excitement of what
is possible to program our bodies to do, you know,
And there's so much honesty and that jumping off place
and allowing oneself to just explore and to be excited
(40:24):
by what comes out, even if it's shit, you know
what I mean, Because I've got more terrible things in
the vault. That's just you know, it's even funny to
go listen and go it's pretty funny, Like I see
what I was trying to do there, and to hear
the play in it, the exploration, the things that are
wrong but that are right, the things that hit a
(40:46):
chord within you know when you listen to it, and
the things that are just trash, and you know to
give it, to give it that kind of energy is
making that right change in the right place, or everybody
on the same page, catching up, feeling to move into
(41:08):
another phrase or whatever that thing is. When you when
you're able to do that and it garner attention, well
then it's easy to lose sight of the whole, the thing,
the glue, the purpose in it in the first place.
And I think I wasn't doing enough calibrating along the way.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
You know, do you.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Have any musical mentors or people in the business or
in your position or in a similar position that you
can talk to honestly and be like, look, I'm feeling
lost right now, I need help. Is there anybody who
you can go to as a guide.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
Throughout my career, I've mentioned Mark Mark Pitts as kind
of one of those ones who believed early and had
he had the leverage and the reputation to convince a
lot of people who otherwise would have wrote me off,
cut their losses and moved on, so to speak, when
(42:09):
it wasn't all profitable, you know, when it was looking
like there wasn't a way forward. That was someone that
I could always call on and trust to give. Not
business insight alone, I think more human insight, and so
he was someone that I could always call on, but
(42:30):
through life, through my life, I think it'll always be
my family. I got lucky and I have an incredible,
incredible mother and father who have been, you know, truly
truly upfront about what they do and do not know,
even when I was, you know, too young enough to
(42:51):
care about it. They've always been there to kind of Mike,
you know, that's not right, Mike, you know, and give
me the thing that I need to hear that I
can trust is coming from a really pure place, you know.
So I got lucky, and that's in fact. You know,
my brother is one of my best friends, nonchalant, He's
(43:12):
on this album. And I've gotten lucky to have just
great people along the way, including my you know, my team.
Drew has been with me for years. Anyone who knows
me and has been we've done business.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
With knows Drew. That's my guy. He's my right hand.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
He's been with me since I since my first real
check performing outside of Los Angeles. You know, he literally
was at my very first show way up in Connecticut.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Oh, in Connecticut.
Speaker 4 (43:38):
Yeah, it was in Connecticut, a thousand dollars show to
perform all I want is you at a club, you know,
and it's like this, this is like someone who's been
with me for you know, a decade plus more than
you know, so we're talking about fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years. Yeah,
I've been lucky to have people that I can trust,
you know, but I've also yeah that's awesome. Yeah, yeah,
(44:00):
I've gotten lucky in that way. So those are the
people that I would I could lean on to kind
of be like, hey man, you swerve it, you swerve
it hard right now.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Yeah. One thing I wanted to ask you before we go,
I wanted to ask you about the visuals for Chaos
for the title track, So cool, m h, what are
you wearing? And where did all that come from?
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Banger as I As I kind of mentioned, like the
themes of the album or the theme of the album
is really centered around, you know, the purpose of chaos
in my life and what I'm learning because of it
and what I need to make peace with and in
just kind of doing reading and some research on where
(44:48):
I come from.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
My family is.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
From a region in Mexico that a tribe is from,
so by blood, I have lineage to a tribe called
the Booty patcha. I think it's Booty Patch. I might
be killing the name Booty Pecha. But the only tribe
in the region to not be conquered by the Aztec.
They're like valley, They're like warriors, you know, and they
were never conquered. So like kind of doing deep dives
(45:16):
into like my heritage where my family is from, and
it kind of led me to find a celebration in
Mexico called Son of the Diablos, which is the dance
of the of the devils. And contrary to what the set,
what the title suggests, it's actually a celebration, a commemoration
of slaves in Mexico, African slaves and Mexican slaves freeing
(45:40):
themselves from their masters.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
And the visuals are an homage to this idea that
I'm making peace with. I'm addressing and freeing myself in
some ways from my own demons.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
How did it feel to put the clothes on? I'm
powerful in itself just wearing the clothes.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
It's hot as fuck because it's so many layers. That
shit is just hot. I'm talking about like a scarf
on the head and then another scarfs around your neck
and you gotta chivas and yes you got boots, huh, like.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
The chaps, right, yeah, yeah, that's a that's the chaps
that they wear.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Chaps, but like fur.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
Yeah it's goat here. Yeah yeah it looks sick, but
it does feel. It does give you a whole other feeling.
And I and I want to I wanted to make
sure that we were paying homage, but not like ripping it,
you know, and it just being like a full yank.
So the key elements that I feel really resonated with me.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
And where the chivaras and.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
The garb appear, I think, because what that what that
actually is for, is like to protect the face from
the mask. And the artisans that make these masks, there's
only a handful that are like known to be like them.
It's like like a sort like a swordsmith. If you're
a samurai, you want this kind of lathe. So in
(47:10):
the same way, the makers of the garbs, they're artisans
that are like these are the guys you go to.
And the masks are pretty heavy. These shits are like
wooden masks, and then they've got you know, they're all
very different and they're ornate and in different ways.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
But them.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
Shits is heavy and when you put it on, if
you don't have anything to protect your head, it's gonna
like it's gonna hurt you.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
The sheer weight.
Speaker 4 (47:38):
And then the movement with it on also, it moves
around and shit. So the garb is kind of like
in anti anticipation of putting on the mask.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
But that's another way to process pain, you know, exager
pain in a different way.
Speaker 4 (47:54):
Which is the reason why you won't really see me,
because I think the purpose of this album and the
proposition is that I'm making peace with my demon, so
I don't have to wear a mask, you know, I'm
freeing myself of them.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, all I love all considered.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, well, thank you so much Michael for talking about
this album and for making the album. Man, thank you,
best of luck. I can't wait to see what comes next.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
Yeah, Thanksley, appreciate your time. Great to hang and hopefully
you see you again soon.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
In an episode description, you'll find a link to a
playlist of our favorite Miguel tracks. Be sure to check
out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to see
all of our video and others, and be sure to
follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod You
can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing and
help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is
(48:50):
Ben Holliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries. If
you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing
to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that
offers bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety
nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions,
and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast. Aff Our theme music
(49:12):
expect Anny Beats. I'm justin Richmond, h
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