June 10, 2025 • 61 mins
Today, Justin Richmond is joined by the Starchild himself—KISS co-founder and frontman, Paul Stanley. Born and raised in New York City, Paul fell in love with music at an early age, attending shows at iconic venues like the Fillmore East. Over the course of more than 50 years with KISS, he helped build one of the most devoted fan bases in rock history, turning theatrical spectacle into an art form.
Now that KISS has officially retired from touring, Paul reflects on life beyond the stage. He opens up about what continues to fuel his creativity, and what it means to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the KISS Army. He also shares his personal top five KISS albums—and gives us a preview of KISS: Storms Vegas, the upcoming Las Vegas residency that proves the end of touring doesn’t mean the end of the show.
You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Paul Stanley and Kiss HERE.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Today I'm broken Record. I'm joined by a true rock icon,
the star child himself, Kiss co founder in frontman Paul Stanley.
Paul grew up in New York City, where he fell
in love with the music, attending shows at Manhattan venues
like the legendary Fillmore East. Of course, he himself, as
part of Kiss, over fifty years, built one of the
most fervently devoted fan bases in music history by turning
(00:33):
spectacle into art. Now that Kiss is officially retired from
the road, Paul reflects on life after the makeup, what
fuels his creativity these days, and what it means to
have reached the fiftieth anniversary of the Kiss Army. He
also shares his personal top five Kiss albums and gives
us a preview of Kiss Storm Vegas, the upcoming event
(00:54):
that proves the end of touring doesn't mean the end
of the show. This is Broken record, real musicians, real conversations.
Here's my conversation with Paul Stanley. Oh wow, how are you?
(01:16):
The man?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
The myth, the legend is somebody else here?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
The guy behind you, I'll talk about the guy behind
couldn't be you, No you of course? Wow. Great to
meet you likewise, great to meet you. Where are you
at in the thing?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Actually in the Kiss warehouse.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That has to be that has to be an incredible place.
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's like Superman's Portress of Solitude.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh man, how long have you guys had like a warehouse.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Since pretty much the beginning of the band, although that's
changed over the Year's location has changed over the years,
but we've always needed a place not only for musical instruments,
but for stage pieces and all the miscellaneous stuff that
goes along with a tour.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Wow, do you ever? I mean, you know, talking to
you or anyone else from Kiss, it's in a weird way,
like talking to anyone from you know, like Paula Ringo
or Mike or Keith or even Ronnie. It's like you
guys have had such long and storied careers and been
asked everything. But I have to imagine every once in
(02:30):
a while going through the whitouse, there's something you see
that you're shocked by or just didn't remember, or you're
surprised to see or find.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Manyly, it's just I think I have a really good memory,
and yet sometimes friends of mine will say, you remember
in New York when we had dinner with so and
so and so and so, and I'm like, for the
life of me, I can't remember. So in terms of
the band, my memory is really really pretty pretty strong.
(03:02):
You know, we can talk about, you know, the show
that we did at the Capitol Center in Largo, Maryland
outside DCOR. Could talk about, you know, playing the Stanley
Warner Theater in Pittsburgh or the Tower Theater. You know,
my memory is at least with the band, very very
very I'm quite lucid.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Why why do you think the band is the is
the one part that you're able to compartmentalize and remember
every little bit of it?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I guess, you know, I would think that if you
visit Disneyland, you'll remember everything you did. And I've been
living in Disneyland.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That's That's a great way to a great way to
put it. It's even even the early days of the band,
pre pre alive, when you guys, you know, alive. Obviously,
most people who are at least are fans will know
that live is really when the band hits and you
guys break. But it seems like even before that, like
you guys were really i mean somehow living, you know,
(04:08):
the rock star lifestyle like you guys were. In a sense,
it almost appears if you guys had made it the
way you know the stories.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And I think certainly there was a all for one
and one for all attitude, and we felt like we
were on a crusade. We were we were going to
make converts of everybody. And it had nothing to do
with our musical prowess, certainly at that point, but it
(04:38):
had to do with a commitment to the band, to
what we were doing, and to the fans. I have
to say that initially a lot of the earliest songs
were almost almost us writing about things that we really
had an experience. It was almost wishful thinking. By the
(05:02):
third album, we were really living it, you know. Strutter
was about the women that I would see in the
streets in Greenwich Village. There was this huge musical band
renaissance of what became known as glitter the glitter bands
(05:24):
or kind of like that androgynous look, and the women,
the girlfriends were you know, wearing silks and satins and
fishnets stockings, and they didn't want anything to do with me.
But I wrote about that. I wrote about Black Diamond.
(05:44):
Literally by the time we were doing songs like room Service.
That's what I was living. You know, all of a sudden,
you know, you go from wishing for something to actually
being immersed in it.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Was it? At what point do you start to realize, like, God,
this isn't this isn't everything. You know, this actually isn't
all that you can want out of life. There's more
to it.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, you know, that's a tough question because when you're
first exposed to something, how much cake can you eat?
You know, you won't know untill you eat it all,
you know. I I think, at least in my case,
it took a bit of time before I went you know,
(06:33):
although this is what I was on a quest to achieve,
once you achieve it, I found myself going, is this everything?
You know? Some some people aspire to something and think
it's going to be a cure all and or disappointed
in a way when that's not the case, and neither
(06:55):
wind up with a needle in their arm or a
gun in their mouth. You know, I made it a challenge. Okay,
let's see what else is out there? You know, what else?
What else do I need to complet who I am?
But it certainly it gave me the ability to do that,
(07:15):
and along the way I was having a great time.
You know, no, I have no complaints about any aspect
or time period in my life.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
There's nothing you look back and wish you'd handle the different.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Or I'd like to say that I always did the
best I could. And nonetheless, I'd say when our second drummer,
Eric Carr, when he had heart cancer, I wish that.
I wish that I had realized that I couldn't fathom
(07:55):
the idea of him dying, so I didn't deal with
it the way I would today. I think, you know,
there were certainly mistakes I think made in that period.
And again I was you're limited by what by your limitations.
(08:17):
You're limited by by what you know and and how
you perceive things and where you are in your life.
So everything that you do in life gets through to
where you are today. That's right, good and bad. And
you change one thing, you change everything. So even even
(08:39):
whatever missteps or things that may have happened, they they're
responsible for where I am today.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
When I when I'm thinking about the fact that for
so many years you you you both view energy and
really had dealt with aces, indulgences and Peter's indulgences and
you know, I mean, thankfully there's they're still with us.
But I mean, I could I can understand how you
might feel like you guys were insulated from that kind
of you know, there were a lot of tragedies in
(09:10):
other bands. You guys really managed to avoid that for
so long. And I guess until Eric and it, I
guess this unusual thing. You know, it's a.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Very different level when you're dealing with facing somebody's mortality. Yeah,
when you're facing a diagnosis and a prognosis, and somehow
maybe your defensive mechanism is to, oh, well, you know,
it'll be the odds or he'll always be like this.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
But that was the only thing that I really can
think of. I wish, I wish I knew better how
that was going to end and really understood it that,
you know, the finality of death. That's uh, we don't
(10:04):
get to deal with that that often at that age.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah. Yeah, And like I said, you guys were real
fortunate for a rock and roll group. You guys really
managed to avoid a lot of the usual pitfalls more
or less, you know, you guys.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I really I think that part of what has gotten
us to where we are at this point. I mean, Gina,
I've been together fifty six years. Is the idea that
we can we can, we can succeed, we can make
things okay. I think that's really what it is. It's
(10:43):
more more than we'll make it okay, we'll fix it.
You know, at some point in life you start to
realize you can't fix everything. It's kind of humbling. You know,
the only person you can fix is you. So I
think there's there's a sense of being more powerful than.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Your Yeah, did that feeling of you and Jeans sort
of being able to weather anything? Was there a defining
moment of that where you realize, oh, when we got
past this now it feels like or did it just
sort of at some point occur like yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I think that maybe maybe it's because we're both survivors.
Innately it it's born into us. You know, our parents
were impacted by the Holocaust. Jean's mom was in a
concentration camp. My mom had to flee on hours notice
(11:49):
as a child with her family and get on a
train and leave everything behind and go to Amsterdam and
then flee there. So I think that they're there. I
don't know that it's the children of Holocaust survivors or
I do think that that into it, that there's a
(12:12):
sense of survival, a sense of not being victimized. You're
the master of your own destiny, and when that is challenged,
that usually gets my back up that further. If somebody
tells me something's impossible, then I have.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
To do it.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
That's you know, that's not always a good quality. But
I like to think that both Jane and I want
to make our own decisions and live our own lives,
and kiss has always been the same. Nobody decides for
us who we are or what we are, and that's
(12:54):
probably what's kept us around as long is we will
stand by our victories and we'll brush ourselves off when
we fall. And you know, there are times we fallen
and we're not prone, either one of us, to stay
it down.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, your final full stage show is a year and
a half, like behind you guys now, although there's this
Vegas event coming up and we'll talk about that storm.
Does it feel weird to have the touring part of
your life wrapped up? To have that done after all
(13:34):
this time totally?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Of course you can fill I can fill that time.
But I can never replace what's lost. In a sense,
it's a death. You miss something, you can't get it back,
and you can fill that time, but there's absolutely a loss.
(13:58):
Nothing can take the place of twenty fifty one hundred,
one hundred and fifty thousand people in front of you,
and the energy and the love that they are giving,
and the appreciation of what I'm doing. I think, ask
Michael Jordan, ask any athlete. When you give up something
(14:20):
like that, there's no replacing it. You find things to
fill the time and fill the time. Well. But if
to say I don't miss it, I can miss it,
don't I don't. I don't live my life today thinking
(14:44):
about yesterday. It's pointless and it doesn't take advantage of today.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
But is there any part of you that reflexively just
feels like a tour must be right on the other
side of next year? I mean, Becau's been doing. It's
just like periods at home and then it's just almost
at some point, must feel reflexive to just be like, oh,
I'm going to go somewhere soon to you know.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I say to people, Look, I've been home before for
stretches of time. The difference this time is I'm not
leaving well, so yeah, I can do other things, and
I can play, and I can do things with Gene
or There's lots of things for Kiss to be doing
(15:29):
and to move Kiss into the future. But the touring aspect,
which has been a major part of my life is gone.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Do you still play at home?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh yeah, nowhere near up to this point, nowhere near
what I once did. But I was touring. I was
playing five nights a week. There was a recording. So
I think that, without even planning to, I just took
a break. I just I just put down the guitar,
(16:06):
and thank fully, when I pick it up, sounds like
me playing, you know, muscle muscle memory. Although you know
I could, I could sharpen the blade a little bit
and I will. But yes, I still play, and music
is so much a part of my life, and music.
Music has been salvation for me, oxygen for me since
(16:30):
I was a kid, since I was five six years
old and I discovered music or was exposed to it.
It's always been my sanctuary.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
What inspires you these days when you're around the house
to pick up the guitars or something you'll hear, or
feeling you'll get.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Or Oh, it's more curiosity. Gee, can I still do it?
It's different, It's really different because throughout my life there
was always a reason I was playing. I was playing
with different bands, or to get better, or to learn
(17:11):
certain things. And right now it could change tomorrow. But
right now, if I don't feel like it, I don't
do it. But I'm fully aware that I will. I'm
fully aware that like other things you take, you take breaks.
I think it's important in a lot of senses to
get away from things.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
We'll be back with more from Paul Stanley. It's been
as I mean, it's been a un a has since
the last tour. It's been even much longer since the
last original album. In all that time, or even since
you've stopped touring, do melodies ever still come to you
or a riff?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Or yeah they do, And I don't feel the need
right now to do anything with it. Now you'll hear
from so many people in music business has changed enormously
and what we once sold, or other major bands acts
(18:22):
once sold, for the most part, that that doesn't exist anymore.
So you have to be creating for a different reason.
And I've known some people recently who put out some
fantastic music, and you know, after a week or so
it's off the charts because there just isn't that sustainability anymore.
(18:48):
So there definitely is is a sense of do I
really want to put that much work into something, and
even though I know what the outcome probably is going
to be, do I want to build up for that
kind of disappointment? And that's not I may say that
(19:11):
and be honest about it, but I've known a lot
of people who who feel that. And you know the
other people who go, oh, you know, I just I
create for me and this and that. That's true to
a point. But you you did it to become successful,
(19:34):
or you wouldn't never have played it for anybody. You
wouldn't have left your room. So by design, you wanted acceptance,
you wanted a mass appeal, whatever it was. Otherwise, if
you really did it for yourself, you keep it to yourself.
But once you start putting it out there, you know,
(19:55):
if things don't go the way they once did, or
you anticipate, I see a point where people just go,
I'll tour, you know, and there are other you know,
acts and people who have done that. Look, you know,
(20:16):
when it comes down to it. If I wrote let
It Be Tomorrow and we put it out as kiss,
people will say that's great play love Gun. It's just
it's it's just the nature of things. You go to
see the Stones, you tolerate whatever they want to play
(20:37):
until you hear Brown Sugar or Honky Tom Woman. So
if McCartney does a show, if I see it on TV,
if I turn off the volume, I'll let you know
every time he's playing a new song because the audience
sits down. So you know, if you want to keep writing,
(20:57):
you know, God bless you. I am at a point
now where I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
You know. I mean, this is one thing I'll say,
this one thing I'll I I mean, there's many things
to like about Case, but one of the things I
especially love about you and Gene is you guys have
never never shied away from the fact that you wanted
to be successful. There's no pretense around it. And to
the point that I mean, and I guess, let me
ask you this, even you know it's amazing, But the
self titled album Hotter than Hell addressed to Kill Like
(21:31):
You're to this day, still remain disappointed in those albums,
even as incredible as they are and beloved as.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
They are well because they don't sound the way I
envisioned or hoped, and they don't sound the way we
sounded live, and we didn't have the know how or
wherewithal at that point to make albums that reflected what
we sounded like. That's why it took Kiss Alive to
(22:02):
break through, because people loved us and came to see us,
but the albums didn't really reflect what they had experienced.
So yeah, I mean, I would like to think that.
I would like to think you don't love everything you do,
because that doesn't leave any room. You know, if everything
(22:26):
is great, how great is great? I mean it's you know,
it's got to be degrees of stuff. And out of
all the albums we've done, we always gave it our best,
and some of them might listen to and go, or
I don't listen to and I go. You know, at
that time there was this going on or that going on,
(22:48):
and then there are other albums I think are really good,
and then there's some albums I think are great. So
I would hate to think everything that we do or
I do is fantastic because it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
If I had to ask you to rank your top
five Kiss albums? What would you? What would you?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
For different reasons. The first has to be kiss Alive
because Kiss Alive really captured the essence of the live experience. Now,
that couldn't have happened without us going in the studio
and enhancing it and surrounding you with people. Live albums
(23:33):
were boring for four hours. You didn't even know they
were live until the end of the song where you
heard some clapping. But for Kiss, we wanted an album
that immersed you. Immersion in the experience, which means being
surrounded by people, which means bombs going off that are deafening,
(23:58):
which means fixing any mistakes or a broken string. People
may have snobs or purists may have looked down their
nose at that idea, but the truth is that album
still considers if not the greatest, one of the greatest,
(24:18):
and then a lot of circles. Gray's live album ever,
not because everything was live, but because it captured the
live experience. So Kiss Alive destroyer, even though it didn't
sound much like its predecessors. But working with Bob Ezrin
(24:41):
was such a education, such a schooling discipline, and upping
the writing and putting aside, at least temporarily, all the
songs about you know, sleeping with this one or this group,
your parties.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And it.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Raised the bar so destroyer. So many of those songs
end up in our show up until the very end
Detroit Rock City, God of thunder Beth shouted out loud,
so destroyer, I would say Sonic Boom. Sonic Boom was
(25:32):
a great album by a band that recognized its roots
and recognized where it came from and picked up the
slack and kept moving forward. I love that album, and
I loved the spirit that went into it, where everybody
knew what they wanted to do and at our best
(25:55):
and most people's best I think comes from trying to
make the team or the band or whatever you're involved
in better, and that will make you look better than
just trying to make you look better. And the team
spirit on Sonic Boom was really really palpable and great album.
(26:22):
Great album. And again, if modern day Delilah had been
on Rock and Roll Over, it would be a classic.
But songs take decades to gain that kind of patina
or to have that life connection of when you heard
(26:46):
that song at a certain time in your life. So
as time went on, songs could be great, but they
didn't have that the luster of being tied to the past.
So whether it was modern day Delilah or Hell or Hallelujah.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Is as good as any you know, both of those,
as good as any leadoff Kiss songs on any you
know come on.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Totally ridiculous, and I just found myself going, you know,
that's as good as it gets. And it's a different
time now and people don't connect to songs as time
pieces or a sonic photograph of a certain period. So
but long story short, so not really, but so Sonic
(27:38):
Boom would be in that top three, top three, and
other than that, I would say I like rock and
roll Over. I like that album. Again, it doesn't sound
anywhere near what we sounded like. And that's after Kiss Alive.
(27:59):
It was very elusive for us, perhaps because of some
of the people we were working with. It just escaped
escaped us. We did some thing with real focus and
clarity of what we were doing. So that's really good.
I love Kiss Unplugged, you know that album. I just
(28:23):
listened to some of that couple of days ago. You know,
the band at that point was just on fire, no effects,
no amplifiers, no running around us with guitars and drums
and singing our asses off. And also it gave a
(28:43):
chance to showcase the songs because you know, I've always
adhered to the idea that a good song can be
played on one guitar if you have to go, well,
wait till you hear the sound effects on this song. Now,
a great song can be stripped away and it's fantastic.
(29:06):
So to hear sure, no some then or I still
love you. You hear those songs and there's a wow
factor just because it's that good. So Kiss unplugged I
would put in there. I think that's cool.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
That's that's it. No, that's six there, well hold on
well a live Destroyer, Sonic Boom, Rock and roll over,
Revenge and.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Unplugged, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, okay, it's unplugged and replace Revenge. You don't have
to you can have six you're Paul Stanley.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, I would replace Revenge with unplugged. I just I
love the simplicity and the fact that it's undeniable. It's
just four guys with their instruments.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
It's cool too, it I mean, and it's really it's one.
I mean revenge could be that two and and and
and but you know, you guys, it's it's it's it's
part of you eyes being able to have these really
unique moments in any decade and all, you know, in
every decade since you start of have these moments where
you guys still show you know, well early on in matter,
(30:21):
but you guys should work. We're still kissing. We're kissing,
you know, like it, And it's that's a There are
some but there's not a lot of groups that are
able to every decade have some sort of touchstone where
you can say, like that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
And and for some people that's a flaw and to
me not at all. I mean, I think that whether
it's art or music, rock and roll, whatever, it's about exploring.
The band that did rock and roll all night also
did Beth I was made for love in you. You know,
(31:00):
it's it's all over the place, and and I like that.
That's some people would want us to just be one thing,
but I don't want to be and we've never been
one thing because we have so many influences. And that
(31:22):
was one of the things that I loved about concerts
when I was in my teens is that it was
like getting a three course meal. You'd go to see
a show and there would be three bands who were
completely unlike each other, and that that's healthy when you
(31:44):
have an opening act that just sounds like the headliner
but isn't as popular or whatever. You know, I saw,
I saw so many bills where it was bands that
were so divergent in what they were doing, and that
was what made it so interesting. So I guess that's
(32:04):
what I've always followed.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
We'll be back with more from Policy Stanley after the
break that era when you're growing up going to concerts too,
that's really it's it's that that that that tiny little
era and really only New York and San Francisco where
that was happening, where it would be like, you know,
Robbie Shankar and then you know Moby Grape and then
(32:31):
Otis Redding, you know, and it's like, no, like what.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I mean, most people won't even relate to this, but
I saw. I mean, I saw a sliine of Family
Stone open for Hendrix when their first album came out.
But you know, seeing things like Traffic, Iron, Butterfly and
Blue Cheer or Woody Hermann's Orchestra with led Zeppelin.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Did you see that?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah? I missed that one, but I saw you know,
Buddy Guy in sixty nine opening for the Who Wow,
you know I saw Otis Redding. I mean, you know
Lauren Nero. I mean there was so much great music
and the beauty of it was like getting a great
(33:24):
dinner where there's you know, I mean, do you want
to eat three hamburgers? I don't you know? Do you
want three chicken dishes? I mean the whole idea was
your palette. Your ear was experiencing different different things. So yeah,
(33:44):
I mean, you know, Maha Vishno Orchestra, you know, with
Robbie Shankar and you know, pick a bombastic band, you know.
But that's what made it so great. You you didn't
just show up for the headliner. You wanted to hear
all these bands might learn something, you might learn you
liked something you didn't even know that you liked.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, we were talking about modern day Delilah and Hella Hallelujah.
When did when did a Kiss album opening up with
with a Paul Stanley song? When did was that ever decided?
Or did it just happen? Did it just occur that way?
Because every Kiss album kicks off with like an incredible
(34:30):
Paul Stanley song from Strutter to modern Day Delilah.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I think I've always looked at that the first song
on an album should kind of encapsulate what the album is.
It should it should give you a sense of what
you're going to get, as opposed to just a random
up tempo song or whatever. So I very often I
(34:59):
wrote with the idea that this is the first song
on the album. You know, it's like a great preview,
a great trailer to a movie.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah. Was there ever a competition within the band or
with gene to I don't know, I want this this
should actually go, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I think Gina, although we've had very brotherly ego competitions,
I think Jane's been very pragmatic and in that case
and and as always uh seen you know, I mean
(35:38):
Psycho circus again, it was like, Okay, what's this album
going to be? And you know, welcome to the show.
That's you know, the whole vibe of it, and and
you know you're in the psycho circus. So yeah, for me,
it's it's always been a conscious effort to write the
(36:00):
opening track and also a big difference between Gene and
I always had Gina and me. It's proper grammar. Big
difference between Gene and me has always been that Gene
will write songs that are really good and other songs
that are not so good. He just writes and I
(36:23):
self edit. If a song, a song takes work, it
takes effort, and if it's not going great or if
I don't think it's great or serving the purpose, I
throw it away. I move on. So on most albums,
I've written five or six songs. I didn't write ten songs.
(36:45):
I certainly didn't write twenty songs. I write and go, okay,
this is my contribution to the identity of the album.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, it's amazing too, because you'd even edit like Gene
songs you think about like him bring in you Stanley
the Parrot, you know, and you'd be like, well, this
is a song, but it's got to go, you know.
And I'm sure Jane probably had moments of doing that
as well.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
But yeah, yeah, we've had a great relationship. I think
at one point we really went off on our own
and wanted to do it ourselves. And I don't think
that that was necessarily beneficial, but certainly in the beginning,
there was a tremendous amount of collaboration. Even if our
names weren't side by side on a song, we always
(37:31):
were involved with each other's songs. And later on, once again,
even though our songs may not have had both our
names on them, almost all the songs we did later
again talking about Sonic Boom or Monster or any of
the later stuff was a collaboration.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, this is you guys are putting together something in
Vegas in November, and it's the commemoration really of the
fiftieth anniversary of the Kiss Army.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Right it off is something that honestly that Gina and
I kind of took a back seat in, and honestly
we reached a point not too far in the past
where we both said, you know what, this isn't the
way we want it, and it's going to go through
(38:31):
some major changes to be what we think it should be.
We spent twelve years nurturing a Kiss Cruise and what
that means and what goes into it and what you
get to participate in and the social aspects between fans
from thirty three countries. So this virtually will become a
(38:56):
Kiss Cruise in Vegas, doesn't need a ship. It will
have all the familiar touchstones that people love about a
kiss cruise, whether it's bands playing q and as, contests,
food available, good drinks, social aspects to it. So it
(39:22):
started in a way that we kind of took a
step back to see what some other people might do,
and then we recently found ourselves going, no, this, this,
this isn't what we want to do or the way
we want to do it. So there'll be some announcements
(39:43):
forthcoming and a lot of stuff where people are going
to be very happy as I am that, you know,
a kiss cruise there was there's no ships available, but
a kiss cruise can take place anyway, and to do
(40:03):
it in Vegas at the Virgin Hotel, it's going to
be everything that people want and have been hoping for.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
A kiss event in Vegas sounds just as good to
me or better than a cruise.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I mean, it will be great, you know, and it
will be a great, you know, fantastic weekend of all
the things that we've loved and that people loved. So
whether you're kiss, Army, Navy, you know, cruise or whatever
you are, this is this is about to to uh
(40:36):
become much more I mean, we're really excited. So I
think people should just stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Are you and are you and Gene gonna do any
perform at all? Is that we are?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Well, we're going to do a and no makeup set.
We'll play you know, fifteen songs whatever. And you know, Tommy,
you know, we're all we're all geared up to do it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
We are.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
We really look.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Forward to it. And that'll be acoustic. Yeah that that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Oh, that'll be an electric You're going to do a
full oh oh yeah, amazing, amazing. Yeah, So it's gonna
it's going to be great. And uh, the other bands
that are going to be announced, it's going to be
everything that everybody loves on the Kiss Cruises. I think
that was missing from what was being planned. And and
(41:34):
uh we needed to put our big, our big hands
into this and and and we needed to steer the ship.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Mhm. Speaking of of of steering the ship, I want
to circle back to you mentioned Bob Bob Ezrin, who
you know, you mentioned when you brought him up that
he really helped up the writing and you know, he
he did end up getting you know, like writing credits.
I was always curious what how how was Bob Ezmen
(42:04):
as a producer, helping craft songs in such a way
that he you know, I imagine his fingerprint must have
been pretty strong on on some of those you know,
well hed it again from arrangement or or totally was
he once.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Once we started working with him, the Alice Cooper songs
all sounded different to me because I went, ah, there's Bob.
He has a terrific point of view. And also, well,
we were kids. We we suddenly found ourselves selling millions
and millions of albums with a live album, and now
(42:41):
what do we do. We don't want to go back
to doing what we were doing earlier because it wasn't working.
So having Bob come in, you know, he he in
the nicest way. He talked down to us. You know,
he called us campers. All right, campers, you know, let's
let's uh, let's you know, reconvene. And for a while
(43:06):
he had a whistle around his neck. That's prey humbling
for a band that's selling all those albums. But he
was also teaching us discipline and raising the bar as writers.
It was all really really helpful to this day. So
much of what Bob brought to the band still goes
(43:30):
lives with me.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Have you have you? Have you? When's the last time
you went back, if ever and listened to music from
the Elder.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I'd rather not, you know, I think that was that
was the ship that hit the rocks, you know, it was.
It was just all wrong. The band was in a
very fractured place. Peter was no longer in the band.
(44:09):
Ace was regardless of why, and that's another discussion, but
I mean he was just inebriated all the time, and
you know, he didn't like what we were doing. But
guess what, when we did Destroyer or Love Gun, we
(44:31):
had to get solos out of him quickly enough before
he was incapacitated. So you know, we can say, well,
he didn't like the music, but look, all of us
were developing in whatever positive and negative ways we were,
so the Elder Ace wasn't around, we were lost. I
(44:56):
think it was a progression to a point where both
Gene and I forgot why we made music and why
we loved music. It wasn't for the approval of peers,
and it wasn't to try to get the approval of critics.
It was because we had a passion for the music
(45:19):
we made. And incrementally over a series of albums, it
led us to the Elder and.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
It was.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
It was delusional, and you know, we were just we
were lost and Bob was lost. We were all lost.
I could sit for an hour and talk about what
was wrong with it, but it's just it's contrived. And
you know, me singing that song the Odyssey sounds like
(45:55):
Alfalfa trying to sing the you know, I'm the Barber
of Seville and the and the little Rascals. You know,
it was just it was it was just not it
wasn't kiss, But honestly, who was kiss at that point,
I don't We didn't even know we we had. We
were clueless. I mean again, Eric was in the band,
(46:16):
Peter had left, Ace was a wall, I mean, and
you know, both Gene and I were living kind of
lives of affluence and and flatulence. I mean it was
just like, uh, it just it had all gone astray.
(46:41):
Once upon a time the music had teeth. Now we
were gumming it. It was just we were lost. So
would you say it was made in good faith?
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Though? Like was was the intent to was a passion
at least in the sessions and in the.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, it was. You know, we can all we can
all find ourselves diluting ourselves. We can all find ourselves
caught up in something that later on you go, like,
doctor Phil, what were you thinking?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
You know?
Speaker 2 (47:15):
So yeah, I mean we did it with the best
of intentions, but looking back on it, I think we
all just go, you know, what the hell were we thinking?
You know, I still remember, you know, both G and
I were the same. We would play it for people
(47:36):
and you can't talk. You know, we have to listen
to you have to listen to this. I remember the
record company, PolyGram I think at that time, came to
the studio and god knows what they were expecting. I'm
sure they were expecting a Kiss album and they sat
down and Bob gave them some you know, pep talk
(47:57):
about this amazing thing they were about to hear, and
when it was over, it was kind of like that
scene from the producer Springtime for Hitler. They're just sitting
there not saying anything. I mean, their their mouths were open,
(48:19):
and you know it was we were lost. I remember
being on eighth Street in the village and I'm walking
down the street and it was a poster up for
the Elder and it was my hand. That's my hand
on the cover. The poster was just the door with
(48:44):
my hand on it. And I had like a panic attack.
It was like, what have we done? So, you know,
you know, you sometimes you you just bet on the
wrong horse or just believe believe something that's turns out
to be not true. We did, we did the best
(49:07):
we could. Well, we were lost, and that's it we
could do.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
And then again, there are a percentage of a fair
percentage of Kiss fans who like that album and and
and think it's an underrated album and the Kiss Quiver,
you know, and and so there's something for everyone.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah, all fifty of those people. The album isn't more.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Than that you mentioned, you mentioned playing it for PolyGram
and earlier through through Casablanca, you guys were on Warner
or or you know, Casablanca was under Warner and and
you know Warner. The stories of Warner in the day
being this this sort of you know, bird Bank, California
(49:52):
hippie kind of vibe. Do you remember going to to
to Warner brother in the early day, Warner Brothers in
the early days, and how were you guys received by
that group?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Warner Brothers had quite a prestigious roster of artists. And
when we signed to Casta Blanca, to Neil Bogart's new label,
I'm not even sure that we were aware or knew
what it meant to be, you know, a subsidiary of
(50:25):
Warner Brothers. We did find out rather quickly that they
hated us, and there was a memo sent basically to
all of Warner Brothers saying, you know, shit, can you
know the album? You know? And Neil got off Warner Brothers.
(50:49):
He took Casta Blanca from Warner Brothers. But yeah, they
they they were not fond of us.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Did and did you ever make it out to the
to the offices or did you ever meet anyone high
up at Warner in those days?
Speaker 2 (51:04):
No? I again I think that I, you know, for
all of his attributes and plus is, Neil Bogart was
almost like a P. T. Barnum. He wasn't He wasn't
the old school record company president. He wasn't amed Urt again,
(51:26):
he wasn't Moostin. He wasn't he you know he was
He wasn't John Hammond. He was he was a different school.
And whereas they thought of music as an art or
thought of the musicians as artists. I think he was,
(51:49):
you know, pretty much saw it as a product. And
certainly whether it was us or then Donna Summer or
the Village people, there was a certain heir to the
company that was promoted differently and was looked upon not
(52:11):
only differently perhaps by the public, but by Neil. Most
record companies signed somebody because they believed in them and
then would nurture them for three albums. Well nowadays, you know, nowadays,
if you if your first song doesn't do it, you're
back to the gas station. But so no, Neil, Neil
(52:35):
was different than what was considered, you know, the the
hierarchy or that that kind of elite at at record companies.
So no, I never met I never met anybody at
Warner Brothers. Uh. That was over so quickly that we
(52:55):
just had this very insular, insular group of Casablanca promotion
people and executives.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
How was Neil, Neil Bogart and Bill A. Coin's relationship,
because they're both very unique characters in your Guys story.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
If there ever was, and I believe there was a
fifth member to kiss, it was Bill o'coin. Bill was
Bill was brilliant and much like other things that we
had done. Bill didn't fit the stereotype. He hadn't been
a manager, but it felt right with Gene and I
met him. He innately knew what we needed to do
(53:45):
and was he was so tuned in, and as time
went on as a manager, we all looked to him
almost like a father figure, although he was basically right
around our age. And he also had a great gift
for making each one of us feel that we were
(54:06):
his favorite. So you know, he was dealing with four babies,
you know, and he was terrific. And whether it was
Bill's idea was to never be seen without makeup, that
was Bill, and I was like, oh gee.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
It was like I want to be famous on the street,
you know, And Bill said, you know, and you're you're
never going to be. Nobody's ever going to see you
without makeup, And I was like what? But he was right.
Bill was brilliant not to say anything bad about Neil,
because Neil understood the commercial potential of the band, although
(54:50):
I didn't, and I don't believe he saw it as
anything more than a frisbee, you know, just something to
to to make hopefully be successful for a admitted amount
of time. He came from a background of Buddha Records
(55:16):
and some others where they were singles labels with hit singles,
So there wasn't a real sense of grooming or long
term potential. But Neil was was you know, Neil was
part of part of it. I mean, the drums going
(55:38):
up in the air, Neil's idea. So we were fortunate
to have people around us or surround us with, surround
ourselves with people who had contributions to make to us.
Jean breathing fire, that was Bill's idea. Bill brought in
(55:59):
a magician one day to the office. What's this guy
doing here? He breathed fire and scorched the ceiling, and
Bill said, who wants to do this? And I sure
as hell wasn't going to do it. And Jeane God
loved him one like that, and so but again I
(56:23):
think Bill was thinking much more long term and worldwide.
From the day we met Bill, he said to Gene
and I, if you guys aren't interested in being the
biggest band in the world, I'm not interested. You know,
he thought, really really big. But he also he thought
(56:44):
very often quality. That being said, we had kissed me
the phantom and some other other glorious missteps. But I
think Bill was very, very very important to the band,
and I don't think we ever would have succeeded or
survived as long as we did because the there was
(57:08):
always a combus stability between the four members of the band,
and you know, certain although we were united in what
we were doing, there was also you know, resentments and
cut and hostilities, all kinds of stuff, and Bill was
the one who could quell and contain that. So Bill
(57:31):
was brilliant, he was he was one of us.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
There's that great there's a great anecdote in your book
about you know, you guys being out on tour early
on and you come home and you're you know, you're
making make up a number here, forty dollars a week,
and you're like, oh, gosh, maybe you should make it
about twenty bucks more a week. Let me go ask,
let me go ask Bill to up this bit. And
you can go to the office and you show up
and he's got like a hole in his shoes. You're
(57:58):
just like, uh, oh, let me not Bill.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
Bill put two hundreds and I remember this is early seventies.
Bill had two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. I believe
one is an American Express card funding US. I don't
know how he pulled that off, but thankfully when kiss
Alive took off, that got taken care. But Bill for
being a really dapper, great dresser, and very fastidious in
(58:24):
the way he looked, and very upscale. He had his
shoes up on the cross on the on the desk,
and he had a hole in the bottom of his shoe.
And I remember too him having a hole in his
sweater that was held together with scotch tape from the back.
(58:45):
So you don't go in there and say, hey, how
about another twenty bucks. So but yeah, I think that
if you experience those things in your life properly, you
think of them as things that you'll look back on
at some point fondly. And there were a lot of
(59:08):
things that went on in our life where I said,
one day, I'll look back on this as the good time.
So the magical times.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
That was wonderful, man, it's amazing. It also goes to
show again just the luck of kiss Man that you
guys avoided the trap of the manager who's gonna you know,
and I get you guys eventually parted, but in those
crucial early days. You know, you could have had a
manager that really screwing you over. But here's this guy
walking around the hole in issues. We can finance you know,
(59:34):
the dream, you know, and keep you. That's just it
just was like such a beautiful little anecdote that showed
how dedicated this person was, and that wasn't always the
case for a lot of people. You know.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
Yeah, I think though as far as getting ripped off
or robbed, and nothing to do with bill a coin,
But I say to people, show me a band that
hasn't been ripped off, and I'll show your band that
doesn't know.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
It yet, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
So that's it's not whether or not that happens, it's
how you bounce back from it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Well, I have a million more questions, but you know
I want to I want to just say thank you
for thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.
You know. I'll try to maybe make it out to
Vegas because that sounds exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
It's kind amazing great. I mean, the best is yet
to come. I mean, once we really unfurl the flag
and let everybody see what this event's going to be,
they'll be celebrating and so will.
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I beautiful, so great to meet you. Likewise, in the
episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist of
some of our favorite Paul Stanley tracks. Be sure to
check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to
see all of our video interviews, and be sure to
follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You
(01:00:57):
can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Talind.
Broken Record is action of Pushkin Industries. If you love
this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content
(01:01:19):
and athlete listening for four ninety nine a month. Look
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us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats.
I'm justin Richmon
Today I'm broken Record. I'm joined by a true rock icon,
the star child himself, Kiss co founder in frontman Paul Stanley.
Paul grew up in New York City, where he fell
in love with the music, attending shows at Manhattan venues
like the legendary Fillmore East. Of course, he himself, as
part of Kiss, over fifty years, built one of the
most fervently devoted fan bases in music history by turning
(00:33):
spectacle into art. Now that Kiss is officially retired from
the road, Paul reflects on life after the makeup, what
fuels his creativity these days, and what it means to
have reached the fiftieth anniversary of the Kiss Army. He
also shares his personal top five Kiss albums and gives
us a preview of Kiss Storm Vegas, the upcoming event
(00:54):
that proves the end of touring doesn't mean the end
of the show. This is Broken record, real musicians, real conversations.
Here's my conversation with Paul Stanley. Oh wow, how are you?
(01:16):
The man?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
The myth, the legend is somebody else here?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
The guy behind you, I'll talk about the guy behind
couldn't be you, No you of course? Wow. Great to
meet you likewise, great to meet you. Where are you
at in the thing?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Actually in the Kiss warehouse.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
That has to be that has to be an incredible place.
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
It's like Superman's Portress of Solitude.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh man, how long have you guys had like a warehouse.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Since pretty much the beginning of the band, although that's
changed over the Year's location has changed over the years,
but we've always needed a place not only for musical instruments,
but for stage pieces and all the miscellaneous stuff that
goes along with a tour.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Wow, do you ever? I mean, you know, talking to
you or anyone else from Kiss, it's in a weird way,
like talking to anyone from you know, like Paula Ringo
or Mike or Keith or even Ronnie. It's like you
guys have had such long and storied careers and been
asked everything. But I have to imagine every once in
(02:30):
a while going through the whitouse, there's something you see
that you're shocked by or just didn't remember, or you're
surprised to see or find.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Manyly, it's just I think I have a really good memory,
and yet sometimes friends of mine will say, you remember
in New York when we had dinner with so and
so and so and so, and I'm like, for the
life of me, I can't remember. So in terms of
the band, my memory is really really pretty pretty strong.
(03:02):
You know, we can talk about, you know, the show
that we did at the Capitol Center in Largo, Maryland
outside DCOR. Could talk about, you know, playing the Stanley
Warner Theater in Pittsburgh or the Tower Theater. You know,
my memory is at least with the band, very very
very I'm quite lucid.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Why why do you think the band is the is
the one part that you're able to compartmentalize and remember
every little bit of it?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I guess, you know, I would think that if you
visit Disneyland, you'll remember everything you did. And I've been
living in Disneyland.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That's That's a great way to a great way to
put it. It's even even the early days of the band,
pre pre alive, when you guys, you know, alive. Obviously,
most people who are at least are fans will know
that live is really when the band hits and you
guys break. But it seems like even before that, like
you guys were really i mean somehow living, you know,
(04:08):
the rock star lifestyle like you guys were. In a sense,
it almost appears if you guys had made it the
way you know the stories.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
And I think certainly there was a all for one
and one for all attitude, and we felt like we
were on a crusade. We were we were going to
make converts of everybody. And it had nothing to do
with our musical prowess, certainly at that point, but it
(04:38):
had to do with a commitment to the band, to
what we were doing, and to the fans. I have
to say that initially a lot of the earliest songs
were almost almost us writing about things that we really
had an experience. It was almost wishful thinking. By the
(05:02):
third album, we were really living it, you know. Strutter
was about the women that I would see in the
streets in Greenwich Village. There was this huge musical band
renaissance of what became known as glitter the glitter bands
(05:24):
or kind of like that androgynous look, and the women,
the girlfriends were you know, wearing silks and satins and
fishnets stockings, and they didn't want anything to do with me.
But I wrote about that. I wrote about Black Diamond.
(05:44):
Literally by the time we were doing songs like room Service.
That's what I was living. You know, all of a sudden,
you know, you go from wishing for something to actually
being immersed in it.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Was it? At what point do you start to realize, like, God,
this isn't this isn't everything. You know, this actually isn't
all that you can want out of life. There's more
to it.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, you know, that's a tough question because when you're
first exposed to something, how much cake can you eat?
You know, you won't know untill you eat it all,
you know. I I think, at least in my case,
it took a bit of time before I went you know,
(06:33):
although this is what I was on a quest to achieve,
once you achieve it, I found myself going, is this everything?
You know? Some some people aspire to something and think
it's going to be a cure all and or disappointed
in a way when that's not the case, and neither
(06:55):
wind up with a needle in their arm or a
gun in their mouth. You know, I made it a challenge. Okay,
let's see what else is out there? You know, what else?
What else do I need to complet who I am?
But it certainly it gave me the ability to do that,
(07:15):
and along the way I was having a great time.
You know, no, I have no complaints about any aspect
or time period in my life.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
There's nothing you look back and wish you'd handle the different.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Or I'd like to say that I always did the
best I could. And nonetheless, I'd say when our second drummer,
Eric Carr, when he had heart cancer, I wish that.
I wish that I had realized that I couldn't fathom
(07:55):
the idea of him dying, so I didn't deal with
it the way I would today. I think, you know,
there were certainly mistakes I think made in that period.
And again I was you're limited by what by your limitations.
(08:17):
You're limited by by what you know and and how
you perceive things and where you are in your life.
So everything that you do in life gets through to
where you are today. That's right, good and bad. And
you change one thing, you change everything. So even even
(08:39):
whatever missteps or things that may have happened, they they're
responsible for where I am today.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
When I when I'm thinking about the fact that for
so many years you you you both view energy and
really had dealt with aces, indulgences and Peter's indulgences and
you know, I mean, thankfully there's they're still with us.
But I mean, I could I can understand how you
might feel like you guys were insulated from that kind
of you know, there were a lot of tragedies in
(09:10):
other bands. You guys really managed to avoid that for
so long. And I guess until Eric and it, I
guess this unusual thing. You know, it's a.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Very different level when you're dealing with facing somebody's mortality. Yeah,
when you're facing a diagnosis and a prognosis, and somehow
maybe your defensive mechanism is to, oh, well, you know,
it'll be the odds or he'll always be like this.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
But that was the only thing that I really can
think of. I wish, I wish I knew better how
that was going to end and really understood it that,
you know, the finality of death. That's uh, we don't
(10:04):
get to deal with that that often at that age.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah. Yeah, And like I said, you guys were real
fortunate for a rock and roll group. You guys really
managed to avoid a lot of the usual pitfalls more
or less, you know, you guys.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I really I think that part of what has gotten
us to where we are at this point. I mean, Gina,
I've been together fifty six years. Is the idea that
we can we can, we can succeed, we can make
things okay. I think that's really what it is. It's
(10:43):
more more than we'll make it okay, we'll fix it.
You know, at some point in life you start to
realize you can't fix everything. It's kind of humbling. You know,
the only person you can fix is you. So I
think there's there's a sense of being more powerful than.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Your Yeah, did that feeling of you and Jeans sort
of being able to weather anything? Was there a defining
moment of that where you realize, oh, when we got
past this now it feels like or did it just
sort of at some point occur like yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I think that maybe maybe it's because we're both survivors.
Innately it it's born into us. You know, our parents
were impacted by the Holocaust. Jean's mom was in a
concentration camp. My mom had to flee on hours notice
(11:49):
as a child with her family and get on a
train and leave everything behind and go to Amsterdam and
then flee there. So I think that they're there. I
don't know that it's the children of Holocaust survivors or
I do think that that into it, that there's a
(12:12):
sense of survival, a sense of not being victimized. You're
the master of your own destiny, and when that is challenged,
that usually gets my back up that further. If somebody
tells me something's impossible, then I have.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
To do it.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
That's you know, that's not always a good quality. But
I like to think that both Jane and I want
to make our own decisions and live our own lives,
and kiss has always been the same. Nobody decides for
us who we are or what we are, and that's
(12:54):
probably what's kept us around as long is we will
stand by our victories and we'll brush ourselves off when
we fall. And you know, there are times we fallen
and we're not prone, either one of us, to stay
it down.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, your final full stage show is a year and
a half, like behind you guys now, although there's this
Vegas event coming up and we'll talk about that storm.
Does it feel weird to have the touring part of
your life wrapped up? To have that done after all
(13:34):
this time totally?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Of course you can fill I can fill that time.
But I can never replace what's lost. In a sense,
it's a death. You miss something, you can't get it back,
and you can fill that time, but there's absolutely a loss.
(13:58):
Nothing can take the place of twenty fifty one hundred,
one hundred and fifty thousand people in front of you,
and the energy and the love that they are giving,
and the appreciation of what I'm doing. I think, ask
Michael Jordan, ask any athlete. When you give up something
(14:20):
like that, there's no replacing it. You find things to
fill the time and fill the time. Well. But if
to say I don't miss it, I can miss it,
don't I don't. I don't live my life today thinking
(14:44):
about yesterday. It's pointless and it doesn't take advantage of today.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
But is there any part of you that reflexively just
feels like a tour must be right on the other
side of next year? I mean, Becau's been doing. It's
just like periods at home and then it's just almost
at some point, must feel reflexive to just be like, oh,
I'm going to go somewhere soon to you know.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I say to people, Look, I've been home before for
stretches of time. The difference this time is I'm not
leaving well, so yeah, I can do other things, and
I can play, and I can do things with Gene
or There's lots of things for Kiss to be doing
(15:29):
and to move Kiss into the future. But the touring aspect,
which has been a major part of my life is gone.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Do you still play at home?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Oh yeah, nowhere near up to this point, nowhere near
what I once did. But I was touring. I was
playing five nights a week. There was a recording. So
I think that, without even planning to, I just took
a break. I just I just put down the guitar,
(16:06):
and thank fully, when I pick it up, sounds like
me playing, you know, muscle muscle memory. Although you know
I could, I could sharpen the blade a little bit
and I will. But yes, I still play, and music
is so much a part of my life, and music.
Music has been salvation for me, oxygen for me since
(16:30):
I was a kid, since I was five six years
old and I discovered music or was exposed to it.
It's always been my sanctuary.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
What inspires you these days when you're around the house
to pick up the guitars or something you'll hear, or
feeling you'll get.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Or Oh, it's more curiosity. Gee, can I still do it?
It's different, It's really different because throughout my life there
was always a reason I was playing. I was playing
with different bands, or to get better, or to learn
(17:11):
certain things. And right now it could change tomorrow. But
right now, if I don't feel like it, I don't
do it. But I'm fully aware that I will. I'm
fully aware that like other things you take, you take breaks.
I think it's important in a lot of senses to
get away from things.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
We'll be back with more from Paul Stanley. It's been
as I mean, it's been a un a has since
the last tour. It's been even much longer since the
last original album. In all that time, or even since
you've stopped touring, do melodies ever still come to you
or a riff?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Or yeah they do, And I don't feel the need
right now to do anything with it. Now you'll hear
from so many people in music business has changed enormously
and what we once sold, or other major bands acts
(18:22):
once sold, for the most part, that that doesn't exist anymore.
So you have to be creating for a different reason.
And I've known some people recently who put out some
fantastic music, and you know, after a week or so
it's off the charts because there just isn't that sustainability anymore.
(18:48):
So there definitely is is a sense of do I
really want to put that much work into something, and
even though I know what the outcome probably is going
to be, do I want to build up for that
kind of disappointment? And that's not I may say that
(19:11):
and be honest about it, but I've known a lot
of people who who feel that. And you know the
other people who go, oh, you know, I just I
create for me and this and that. That's true to
a point. But you you did it to become successful,
(19:34):
or you wouldn't never have played it for anybody. You
wouldn't have left your room. So by design, you wanted acceptance,
you wanted a mass appeal, whatever it was. Otherwise, if
you really did it for yourself, you keep it to yourself.
But once you start putting it out there, you know,
(19:55):
if things don't go the way they once did, or
you anticipate, I see a point where people just go,
I'll tour, you know, and there are other you know,
acts and people who have done that. Look, you know,
(20:16):
when it comes down to it. If I wrote let
It Be Tomorrow and we put it out as kiss,
people will say that's great play love Gun. It's just
it's it's just the nature of things. You go to
see the Stones, you tolerate whatever they want to play
(20:37):
until you hear Brown Sugar or Honky Tom Woman. So
if McCartney does a show, if I see it on TV,
if I turn off the volume, I'll let you know
every time he's playing a new song because the audience
sits down. So you know, if you want to keep writing,
(20:57):
you know, God bless you. I am at a point
now where I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
You know. I mean, this is one thing I'll say,
this one thing I'll I I mean, there's many things
to like about Case, but one of the things I
especially love about you and Gene is you guys have
never never shied away from the fact that you wanted
to be successful. There's no pretense around it. And to
the point that I mean, and I guess, let me
ask you this, even you know it's amazing, But the
self titled album Hotter than Hell addressed to Kill Like
(21:31):
You're to this day, still remain disappointed in those albums,
even as incredible as they are and beloved as.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
They are well because they don't sound the way I
envisioned or hoped, and they don't sound the way we
sounded live, and we didn't have the know how or
wherewithal at that point to make albums that reflected what
we sounded like. That's why it took Kiss Alive to
(22:02):
break through, because people loved us and came to see us,
but the albums didn't really reflect what they had experienced.
So yeah, I mean, I would like to think that.
I would like to think you don't love everything you do,
because that doesn't leave any room. You know, if everything
(22:26):
is great, how great is great? I mean it's you know,
it's got to be degrees of stuff. And out of
all the albums we've done, we always gave it our best,
and some of them might listen to and go, or
I don't listen to and I go. You know, at
that time there was this going on or that going on,
(22:48):
and then there are other albums I think are really good,
and then there's some albums I think are great. So
I would hate to think everything that we do or
I do is fantastic because it's not.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
If I had to ask you to rank your top
five Kiss albums? What would you? What would you?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
For different reasons. The first has to be kiss Alive
because Kiss Alive really captured the essence of the live experience. Now,
that couldn't have happened without us going in the studio
and enhancing it and surrounding you with people. Live albums
(23:33):
were boring for four hours. You didn't even know they
were live until the end of the song where you
heard some clapping. But for Kiss, we wanted an album
that immersed you. Immersion in the experience, which means being
surrounded by people, which means bombs going off that are deafening,
(23:58):
which means fixing any mistakes or a broken string. People
may have snobs or purists may have looked down their
nose at that idea, but the truth is that album
still considers if not the greatest, one of the greatest,
(24:18):
and then a lot of circles. Gray's live album ever,
not because everything was live, but because it captured the
live experience. So Kiss Alive destroyer, even though it didn't
sound much like its predecessors. But working with Bob Ezrin
(24:41):
was such a education, such a schooling discipline, and upping
the writing and putting aside, at least temporarily, all the
songs about you know, sleeping with this one or this group,
your parties.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And it.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Raised the bar so destroyer. So many of those songs
end up in our show up until the very end
Detroit Rock City, God of thunder Beth shouted out loud,
so destroyer, I would say Sonic Boom. Sonic Boom was
(25:32):
a great album by a band that recognized its roots
and recognized where it came from and picked up the
slack and kept moving forward. I love that album, and
I loved the spirit that went into it, where everybody
knew what they wanted to do and at our best
(25:55):
and most people's best I think comes from trying to
make the team or the band or whatever you're involved
in better, and that will make you look better than
just trying to make you look better. And the team
spirit on Sonic Boom was really really palpable and great album.
(26:22):
Great album. And again, if modern day Delilah had been
on Rock and Roll Over, it would be a classic.
But songs take decades to gain that kind of patina
or to have that life connection of when you heard
(26:46):
that song at a certain time in your life. So
as time went on, songs could be great, but they
didn't have that the luster of being tied to the past.
So whether it was modern day Delilah or Hell or Hallelujah.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Is as good as any you know, both of those,
as good as any leadoff Kiss songs on any you
know come on.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Totally ridiculous, and I just found myself going, you know,
that's as good as it gets. And it's a different
time now and people don't connect to songs as time
pieces or a sonic photograph of a certain period. So
but long story short, so not really, but so Sonic
(27:38):
Boom would be in that top three, top three, and
other than that, I would say I like rock and
roll Over. I like that album. Again, it doesn't sound
anywhere near what we sounded like. And that's after Kiss Alive.
(27:59):
It was very elusive for us, perhaps because of some
of the people we were working with. It just escaped
escaped us. We did some thing with real focus and
clarity of what we were doing. So that's really good.
I love Kiss Unplugged, you know that album. I just
(28:23):
listened to some of that couple of days ago. You know,
the band at that point was just on fire, no effects,
no amplifiers, no running around us with guitars and drums
and singing our asses off. And also it gave a
(28:43):
chance to showcase the songs because you know, I've always
adhered to the idea that a good song can be
played on one guitar if you have to go, well,
wait till you hear the sound effects on this song. Now,
a great song can be stripped away and it's fantastic.
(29:06):
So to hear sure, no some then or I still
love you. You hear those songs and there's a wow
factor just because it's that good. So Kiss unplugged I
would put in there. I think that's cool.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
That's that's it. No, that's six there, well hold on
well a live Destroyer, Sonic Boom, Rock and roll over,
Revenge and.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Unplugged, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, okay, it's unplugged and replace Revenge. You don't have
to you can have six you're Paul Stanley.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, I would replace Revenge with unplugged. I just I
love the simplicity and the fact that it's undeniable. It's
just four guys with their instruments.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
It's cool too, it I mean, and it's really it's one.
I mean revenge could be that two and and and
and but you know, you guys, it's it's it's it's
part of you eyes being able to have these really
unique moments in any decade and all, you know, in
every decade since you start of have these moments where
you guys still show you know, well early on in matter,
(30:21):
but you guys should work. We're still kissing. We're kissing,
you know, like it, And it's that's a There are
some but there's not a lot of groups that are
able to every decade have some sort of touchstone where
you can say, like that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
And and for some people that's a flaw and to
me not at all. I mean, I think that whether
it's art or music, rock and roll, whatever, it's about exploring.
The band that did rock and roll all night also
did Beth I was made for love in you. You know,
(31:00):
it's it's all over the place, and and I like that.
That's some people would want us to just be one thing,
but I don't want to be and we've never been
one thing because we have so many influences. And that
(31:22):
was one of the things that I loved about concerts
when I was in my teens is that it was
like getting a three course meal. You'd go to see
a show and there would be three bands who were
completely unlike each other, and that that's healthy when you
(31:44):
have an opening act that just sounds like the headliner
but isn't as popular or whatever. You know, I saw,
I saw so many bills where it was bands that
were so divergent in what they were doing, and that
was what made it so interesting. So I guess that's
(32:04):
what I've always followed.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
We'll be back with more from Policy Stanley after the
break that era when you're growing up going to concerts too,
that's really it's it's that that that that tiny little
era and really only New York and San Francisco where
that was happening, where it would be like, you know,
Robbie Shankar and then you know Moby Grape and then
(32:31):
Otis Redding, you know, and it's like, no, like what.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
I mean, most people won't even relate to this, but
I saw. I mean, I saw a sliine of Family
Stone open for Hendrix when their first album came out.
But you know, seeing things like Traffic, Iron, Butterfly and
Blue Cheer or Woody Hermann's Orchestra with led Zeppelin.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Did you see that?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah? I missed that one, but I saw you know,
Buddy Guy in sixty nine opening for the Who Wow,
you know I saw Otis Redding. I mean, you know
Lauren Nero. I mean there was so much great music
and the beauty of it was like getting a great
(33:24):
dinner where there's you know, I mean, do you want
to eat three hamburgers? I don't you know? Do you
want three chicken dishes? I mean the whole idea was
your palette. Your ear was experiencing different different things. So yeah,
(33:44):
I mean, you know, Maha Vishno Orchestra, you know, with
Robbie Shankar and you know, pick a bombastic band, you know.
But that's what made it so great. You you didn't
just show up for the headliner. You wanted to hear
all these bands might learn something, you might learn you
liked something you didn't even know that you liked.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, we were talking about modern day Delilah and Hella Hallelujah.
When did when did a Kiss album opening up with
with a Paul Stanley song? When did was that ever decided?
Or did it just happen? Did it just occur that way?
Because every Kiss album kicks off with like an incredible
(34:30):
Paul Stanley song from Strutter to modern Day Delilah.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I think I've always looked at that the first song
on an album should kind of encapsulate what the album is.
It should it should give you a sense of what
you're going to get, as opposed to just a random
up tempo song or whatever. So I very often I
(34:59):
wrote with the idea that this is the first song
on the album. You know, it's like a great preview,
a great trailer to a movie.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah. Was there ever a competition within the band or
with gene to I don't know, I want this this
should actually go, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I think Gina, although we've had very brotherly ego competitions,
I think Jane's been very pragmatic and in that case
and and as always uh seen you know, I mean
(35:38):
Psycho circus again, it was like, Okay, what's this album
going to be? And you know, welcome to the show.
That's you know, the whole vibe of it, and and
you know you're in the psycho circus. So yeah, for me,
it's it's always been a conscious effort to write the
(36:00):
opening track and also a big difference between Gene and
I always had Gina and me. It's proper grammar. Big
difference between Gene and me has always been that Gene
will write songs that are really good and other songs
that are not so good. He just writes and I
(36:23):
self edit. If a song, a song takes work, it
takes effort, and if it's not going great or if
I don't think it's great or serving the purpose, I
throw it away. I move on. So on most albums,
I've written five or six songs. I didn't write ten songs.
(36:45):
I certainly didn't write twenty songs. I write and go, okay,
this is my contribution to the identity of the album.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, it's amazing too, because you'd even edit like Gene
songs you think about like him bring in you Stanley
the Parrot, you know, and you'd be like, well, this
is a song, but it's got to go, you know.
And I'm sure Jane probably had moments of doing that
as well.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
But yeah, yeah, we've had a great relationship. I think
at one point we really went off on our own
and wanted to do it ourselves. And I don't think
that that was necessarily beneficial, but certainly in the beginning,
there was a tremendous amount of collaboration. Even if our
names weren't side by side on a song, we always
(37:31):
were involved with each other's songs. And later on, once again,
even though our songs may not have had both our
names on them, almost all the songs we did later
again talking about Sonic Boom or Monster or any of
the later stuff was a collaboration.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, this is you guys are putting together something in
Vegas in November, and it's the commemoration really of the
fiftieth anniversary of the Kiss Army.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Right it off is something that honestly that Gina and
I kind of took a back seat in, and honestly
we reached a point not too far in the past
where we both said, you know what, this isn't the
way we want it, and it's going to go through
(38:31):
some major changes to be what we think it should be.
We spent twelve years nurturing a Kiss Cruise and what
that means and what goes into it and what you
get to participate in and the social aspects between fans
from thirty three countries. So this virtually will become a
(38:56):
Kiss Cruise in Vegas, doesn't need a ship. It will
have all the familiar touchstones that people love about a
kiss cruise, whether it's bands playing q and as, contests,
food available, good drinks, social aspects to it. So it
(39:22):
started in a way that we kind of took a
step back to see what some other people might do,
and then we recently found ourselves going, no, this, this,
this isn't what we want to do or the way
we want to do it. So there'll be some announcements
(39:43):
forthcoming and a lot of stuff where people are going
to be very happy as I am that, you know,
a kiss cruise there was there's no ships available, but
a kiss cruise can take place anyway, and to do
(40:03):
it in Vegas at the Virgin Hotel, it's going to
be everything that people want and have been hoping for.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
A kiss event in Vegas sounds just as good to
me or better than a cruise.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
I mean, it will be great, you know, and it
will be a great, you know, fantastic weekend of all
the things that we've loved and that people loved. So
whether you're kiss, Army, Navy, you know, cruise or whatever
you are, this is this is about to to uh
(40:36):
become much more I mean, we're really excited. So I
think people should just stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Are you and are you and Gene gonna do any
perform at all? Is that we are?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Well, we're going to do a and no makeup set.
We'll play you know, fifteen songs whatever. And you know, Tommy,
you know, we're all we're all geared up to do it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
We are.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
We really look.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Forward to it. And that'll be acoustic. Yeah that that.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Oh, that'll be an electric You're going to do a
full oh oh yeah, amazing, amazing. Yeah, So it's gonna
it's going to be great. And uh, the other bands
that are going to be announced, it's going to be
everything that everybody loves on the Kiss Cruises. I think
that was missing from what was being planned. And and
(41:34):
uh we needed to put our big, our big hands
into this and and and we needed to steer the ship.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Mhm. Speaking of of of steering the ship, I want
to circle back to you mentioned Bob Bob Ezrin, who
you know, you mentioned when you brought him up that
he really helped up the writing and you know, he
he did end up getting you know, like writing credits.
I was always curious what how how was Bob Ezmen
(42:04):
as a producer, helping craft songs in such a way
that he you know, I imagine his fingerprint must have
been pretty strong on on some of those you know,
well hed it again from arrangement or or totally was
he once.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Once we started working with him, the Alice Cooper songs
all sounded different to me because I went, ah, there's Bob.
He has a terrific point of view. And also, well,
we were kids. We we suddenly found ourselves selling millions
and millions of albums with a live album, and now
(42:41):
what do we do. We don't want to go back
to doing what we were doing earlier because it wasn't working.
So having Bob come in, you know, he he in
the nicest way. He talked down to us. You know,
he called us campers. All right, campers, you know, let's
let's uh, let's you know, reconvene. And for a while
(43:06):
he had a whistle around his neck. That's prey humbling
for a band that's selling all those albums. But he
was also teaching us discipline and raising the bar as writers.
It was all really really helpful to this day. So
much of what Bob brought to the band still goes
(43:30):
lives with me.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Have you have you? Have you? When's the last time
you went back, if ever and listened to music from
the Elder.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I'd rather not, you know, I think that was that
was the ship that hit the rocks, you know, it was.
It was just all wrong. The band was in a
very fractured place. Peter was no longer in the band.
(44:09):
Ace was regardless of why, and that's another discussion, but
I mean he was just inebriated all the time, and
you know, he didn't like what we were doing. But
guess what, when we did Destroyer or Love Gun, we
(44:31):
had to get solos out of him quickly enough before
he was incapacitated. So you know, we can say, well,
he didn't like the music, but look, all of us
were developing in whatever positive and negative ways we were,
so the Elder Ace wasn't around, we were lost. I
(44:56):
think it was a progression to a point where both
Gene and I forgot why we made music and why
we loved music. It wasn't for the approval of peers,
and it wasn't to try to get the approval of critics.
It was because we had a passion for the music
(45:19):
we made. And incrementally over a series of albums, it
led us to the Elder and.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
It was.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
It was delusional, and you know, we were just we
were lost and Bob was lost. We were all lost.
I could sit for an hour and talk about what
was wrong with it, but it's just it's contrived. And
you know, me singing that song the Odyssey sounds like
(45:55):
Alfalfa trying to sing the you know, I'm the Barber
of Seville and the and the little Rascals. You know,
it was just it was it was just not it
wasn't kiss, But honestly, who was kiss at that point,
I don't We didn't even know we we had. We
were clueless. I mean again, Eric was in the band,
(46:16):
Peter had left, Ace was a wall, I mean, and
you know, both Gene and I were living kind of
lives of affluence and and flatulence. I mean it was
just like, uh, it just it had all gone astray.
(46:41):
Once upon a time the music had teeth. Now we
were gumming it. It was just we were lost. So
would you say it was made in good faith?
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Though? Like was was the intent to was a passion
at least in the sessions and in the.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, it was. You know, we can all we can
all find ourselves diluting ourselves. We can all find ourselves
caught up in something that later on you go, like,
doctor Phil, what were you thinking?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
You know?
Speaker 2 (47:15):
So yeah, I mean we did it with the best
of intentions, but looking back on it, I think we
all just go, you know, what the hell were we thinking?
You know, I still remember, you know, both G and
I were the same. We would play it for people
(47:36):
and you can't talk. You know, we have to listen
to you have to listen to this. I remember the
record company, PolyGram I think at that time, came to
the studio and god knows what they were expecting. I'm
sure they were expecting a Kiss album and they sat
down and Bob gave them some you know, pep talk
(47:57):
about this amazing thing they were about to hear, and
when it was over, it was kind of like that
scene from the producer Springtime for Hitler. They're just sitting
there not saying anything. I mean, their their mouths were open,
(48:19):
and you know it was we were lost. I remember
being on eighth Street in the village and I'm walking
down the street and it was a poster up for
the Elder and it was my hand. That's my hand
on the cover. The poster was just the door with
(48:44):
my hand on it. And I had like a panic attack.
It was like, what have we done? So, you know,
you know, you sometimes you you just bet on the
wrong horse or just believe believe something that's turns out
to be not true. We did, we did the best
(49:07):
we could. Well, we were lost, and that's it we
could do.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
And then again, there are a percentage of a fair
percentage of Kiss fans who like that album and and
and think it's an underrated album and the Kiss Quiver,
you know, and and so there's something for everyone.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah, all fifty of those people. The album isn't more.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Than that you mentioned, you mentioned playing it for PolyGram
and earlier through through Casablanca, you guys were on Warner
or or you know, Casablanca was under Warner and and
you know Warner. The stories of Warner in the day
being this this sort of you know, bird Bank, California
(49:52):
hippie kind of vibe. Do you remember going to to
to Warner brother in the early day, Warner Brothers in
the early days, and how were you guys received by
that group?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Warner Brothers had quite a prestigious roster of artists. And
when we signed to Casta Blanca, to Neil Bogart's new label,
I'm not even sure that we were aware or knew
what it meant to be, you know, a subsidiary of
(50:25):
Warner Brothers. We did find out rather quickly that they
hated us, and there was a memo sent basically to
all of Warner Brothers saying, you know, shit, can you
know the album? You know? And Neil got off Warner Brothers.
(50:49):
He took Casta Blanca from Warner Brothers. But yeah, they
they they were not fond of us.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Did and did you ever make it out to the
to the offices or did you ever meet anyone high
up at Warner in those days?
Speaker 2 (51:04):
No? I again I think that I, you know, for
all of his attributes and plus is, Neil Bogart was
almost like a P. T. Barnum. He wasn't He wasn't
the old school record company president. He wasn't amed Urt again,
(51:26):
he wasn't Moostin. He wasn't he you know he was
He wasn't John Hammond. He was he was a different school.
And whereas they thought of music as an art or
thought of the musicians as artists. I think he was,
(51:49):
you know, pretty much saw it as a product. And
certainly whether it was us or then Donna Summer or
the Village people, there was a certain heir to the
company that was promoted differently and was looked upon not
(52:11):
only differently perhaps by the public, but by Neil. Most
record companies signed somebody because they believed in them and
then would nurture them for three albums. Well nowadays, you know, nowadays,
if you if your first song doesn't do it, you're
back to the gas station. But so no, Neil, Neil
(52:35):
was different than what was considered, you know, the the
hierarchy or that that kind of elite at at record companies.
So no, I never met I never met anybody at
Warner Brothers. Uh. That was over so quickly that we
(52:55):
just had this very insular, insular group of Casablanca promotion
people and executives.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
How was Neil, Neil Bogart and Bill A. Coin's relationship,
because they're both very unique characters in your Guys story.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
If there ever was, and I believe there was a
fifth member to kiss, it was Bill o'coin. Bill was
Bill was brilliant and much like other things that we
had done. Bill didn't fit the stereotype. He hadn't been
a manager, but it felt right with Gene and I
met him. He innately knew what we needed to do
(53:45):
and was he was so tuned in, and as time
went on as a manager, we all looked to him
almost like a father figure, although he was basically right
around our age. And he also had a great gift
for making each one of us feel that we were
(54:06):
his favorite. So you know, he was dealing with four babies,
you know, and he was terrific. And whether it was
Bill's idea was to never be seen without makeup, that
was Bill, and I was like, oh gee.
Speaker 1 (54:25):
You know.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
It was like I want to be famous on the street,
you know, And Bill said, you know, and you're you're
never going to be. Nobody's ever going to see you
without makeup, And I was like what? But he was right.
Bill was brilliant not to say anything bad about Neil,
because Neil understood the commercial potential of the band, although
(54:50):
I didn't, and I don't believe he saw it as
anything more than a frisbee, you know, just something to
to to make hopefully be successful for a admitted amount
of time. He came from a background of Buddha Records
(55:16):
and some others where they were singles labels with hit singles,
So there wasn't a real sense of grooming or long
term potential. But Neil was was you know, Neil was
part of part of it. I mean, the drums going
(55:38):
up in the air, Neil's idea. So we were fortunate
to have people around us or surround us with, surround
ourselves with people who had contributions to make to us.
Jean breathing fire, that was Bill's idea. Bill brought in
(55:59):
a magician one day to the office. What's this guy
doing here? He breathed fire and scorched the ceiling, and
Bill said, who wants to do this? And I sure
as hell wasn't going to do it. And Jeane God
loved him one like that, and so but again I
(56:23):
think Bill was thinking much more long term and worldwide.
From the day we met Bill, he said to Gene
and I, if you guys aren't interested in being the
biggest band in the world, I'm not interested. You know,
he thought, really really big. But he also he thought
(56:44):
very often quality. That being said, we had kissed me
the phantom and some other other glorious missteps. But I
think Bill was very, very very important to the band,
and I don't think we ever would have succeeded or
survived as long as we did because the there was
(57:08):
always a combus stability between the four members of the band,
and you know, certain although we were united in what
we were doing, there was also you know, resentments and
cut and hostilities, all kinds of stuff, and Bill was
the one who could quell and contain that. So Bill
(57:31):
was brilliant, he was he was one of us.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
There's that great there's a great anecdote in your book
about you know, you guys being out on tour early
on and you come home and you're you know, you're
making make up a number here, forty dollars a week,
and you're like, oh, gosh, maybe you should make it
about twenty bucks more a week. Let me go ask,
let me go ask Bill to up this bit. And
you can go to the office and you show up
and he's got like a hole in his shoes. You're
(57:58):
just like, uh, oh, let me not Bill.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
Bill put two hundreds and I remember this is early seventies.
Bill had two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. I believe
one is an American Express card funding US. I don't
know how he pulled that off, but thankfully when kiss
Alive took off, that got taken care. But Bill for
being a really dapper, great dresser, and very fastidious in
(58:24):
the way he looked, and very upscale. He had his
shoes up on the cross on the on the desk,
and he had a hole in the bottom of his shoe.
And I remember too him having a hole in his
sweater that was held together with scotch tape from the back.
(58:45):
So you don't go in there and say, hey, how
about another twenty bucks. So but yeah, I think that
if you experience those things in your life properly, you
think of them as things that you'll look back on
at some point fondly. And there were a lot of
(59:08):
things that went on in our life where I said,
one day, I'll look back on this as the good time.
So the magical times.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
That was wonderful, man, it's amazing. It also goes to
show again just the luck of kiss Man that you
guys avoided the trap of the manager who's gonna you know,
and I get you guys eventually parted, but in those
crucial early days. You know, you could have had a
manager that really screwing you over. But here's this guy
walking around the hole in issues. We can finance you know,
(59:34):
the dream, you know, and keep you. That's just it
just was like such a beautiful little anecdote that showed
how dedicated this person was, and that wasn't always the
case for a lot of people. You know.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
Yeah, I think though as far as getting ripped off
or robbed, and nothing to do with bill a coin,
But I say to people, show me a band that
hasn't been ripped off, and I'll show your band that
doesn't know.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
It yet, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
So that's it's not whether or not that happens, it's
how you bounce back from it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Well, I have a million more questions, but you know
I want to I want to just say thank you
for thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.
You know. I'll try to maybe make it out to
Vegas because that sounds exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
It's kind amazing great. I mean, the best is yet
to come. I mean, once we really unfurl the flag
and let everybody see what this event's going to be,
they'll be celebrating and so will.
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
I beautiful, so great to meet you. Likewise, in the
episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist of
some of our favorite Paul Stanley tracks. Be sure to
check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to
see all of our video interviews, and be sure to
follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You
(01:00:57):
can follow us on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Talind.
Broken Record is action of Pushkin Industries. If you love
this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content
(01:01:19):
and athlete listening for four ninety nine a month. Look
for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you
like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review
us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats.
I'm justin Richmon
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