August 10, 2020 • 37 mins
As Ned is in Grand Cayman working undercover to investigate Leigh Ritch, he hears talk about a “general” sometimes called “Pineapple Face.” That can only be the Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega, who, it turns out, has effectively become the syndicate's launderer and protector. The FBI realizes it’s on to something serious, especially when the CIA comes knocking and starts asking all kinds of suspicious questions. The little investigation that began with bikers in Detroit has now implicated the Panamanian dictator – a valuable CIA asset.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin previously on deep cover. During the late spring of
nineteen eighty five, FBI agent Ned Timmins was deep undercover
in the Cayman Islands. His goal was to spy on
Lee Rich, the kingpin of the drug syndicate. As he
(00:37):
got closer to Lee and deeper into this world, he
became increasingly worried. The stress is unbelievable. There's no backup.
You're not gonna really hit the radio and call nine
on one. You're nine. You're not gonna be able to
call for help because nobody's coming. Meanwhile, Lee had problems
(00:58):
of his own. He worried that the FEDS were watching him,
and to complicate matters, he says, his go to bank
in the Caymans was no longer accepting his money for
Ned Timmins. Being undercover and the Caymans meant hanging out
(01:19):
with Lee Rich's guys. He'd chill out on the beach
or at the club and listen for clues. Well, I
usually was given something to do, you know, oversee the barbecues,
or make sure there was no trouble at the bar
with any of the guests. Not exactly the stuff of
Sherlock Holmes, but ned couldn't ask questions really because that
(01:41):
would draw suspicions give him away as a narc. So
he just kept on listening. And then one day Lee
made a cryptic reference to someone apparently in the organization
called the general, and I just okay, not knowing general
of what or general who or whatever, and does your
(02:01):
whole thing is don't ask questions exactly. You start asking
questions and people get suspicious. But what's your react action
to that? Oh? Actually, in the middle of this, they
realized that I had never been to Advanced Undercover School
at Quantico, which is two week school. And I got
(02:25):
orders and they go, oh, you haven't been to Advanced
undercover school. You got to go to that. It seemed
like this was the equivalent of a fireman getting called
out of a burning building to take a refresher class
on how to use a hose. But this was part
of a relatively new effort by the FBI to rain
in and standardize it's undercover practices. So I had to
(02:47):
make up a story to Lee. I can't remember whether
made up something that I had to go someplace or
two weeks. So I go back to Quantico and go
through Advanced undercover school. You know that's the rules. Whatever.
What did you learn an advanced undercover school? I don't remember.
You know what to do and what not to do
and whatever. So not especially interested in his class work,
(03:11):
it seems, and perhaps that's because his thoughts were still
back in the Caymans. That comment about the General he
got him thinking. Was this just some stupid nickname or
was Lee talking about an actual general? Was it possible
that there was someone above Lee. That's just the mindset
(03:33):
of the FBI. We're going to work this up right
to the top, just like the mafia. We're going to
go after the dis We're going to go to the
top of the food chain and crime. Our objective is
to work up and kill the head of the snake.
I'm Jake Halpern and this is Deep Cover Episode six.
(03:58):
The silent partner. Ned didn't know it at the time,
(04:27):
but the general that Lee was talking about, and the
revelation of who he really was would change everything in
this investigation. And the story of the General really begins
about two years earlier. So we're going to turn back
the clock to September of nineteen eighty three. At this point,
(04:49):
Ned is still hanging out in biker bars in Detroit.
Lee Rich, mister beach Club if you will, is still
living the high life in the Caymans, and Stephen Kaylish,
the gentleman smuggler, has not yet been arrested. Everything's going
great for these guys except for one thing, their money laundering.
(05:10):
Le's go to bank in the Caymans, the Bank of
Nova Scotia wasn't an option, So now Lee and Stephen
were looking for somewhere else to launder their money. At
the time, Stephen says, they were trying to move a
whole bunch of small bills about fifteen million dollars worth.
Just to give you a sense of how much cash
that was, it weigh about sixteen hundred pounds, so a
(05:34):
lot of money. And now they had nowhere to put it.
So Lee and Stephen they start thinking about where else
they could take their money and bank it well. The
other only other solid banking haven that I knew was
secure was Panama. In the early nineteen seventies, Panama more
(05:56):
or less deregulated banking, very little oversight now taxes on
foreign income, and by the time Stephen and Lee were
in their bind, lots of new banks had opened their
doors in Panama, which was enticing. Plus, Stephen liked Panama.
I don't a book report in the third grade about
the Panama Canal, so it had always held a special
(06:19):
place of my art. Stephen's summary of its history in
his third grade book report, it's basically right, the building
of the canal and the failures of the French I mean,
the whole way. Panama was actually became a country, you know,
stolen from Columbia, basically by the US. When Panama broke
(06:39):
away from Columbia in nineteen oh three, the United States
lent its support. Then the US signed a treaty with
Panama and took control of a zone about ten miles
wide and fifty miles long. There was a canal there,
or the start of one. Anyhow, the US completed it
and then stuck around to control that canal and you know,
cash in on it. So anyway, Panama had a lot
(07:03):
of allure in Look, I've always been a risk taker, right,
and a guy with a good rolodex. Stephen eventually connects
with a guy named Caesar Rodriguez. He was a businessman
done in Panama with connections to the banking world. A
guy who could make things happen. So Stephen plans a visit.
He packs for the trip, you know, the usual change
(07:26):
of clothes and about three million in cash stuffed into
some luggage. Then he flies down to Panama in a
private jet. He lands at the airport in Panama and
his contact, Caesar, is there to greet him in person.
He's a young guy, good looking, very friendly, speaks perfect English,
and he has not one but two stretch limos waiting
(07:48):
for them. They all head downtown to the Bank of
Boston building where Caesar operated a club and a big,
sprawling penthouse. I mean it's very posh, it's very tricked out.
There's a small little nightclub or restaurant, and Caesar tells Stephen,
we have a private club here but for Hali businessmen
(08:11):
and certain military officials that come here for dining and
drinking and parting in a discreet environment. Later that night
they sit down and have a meal. They're joined by
another guy named Enrique Protelt. Casar introduces Enrique as his partner,
(08:31):
and then very casually, Caesar starts to explain what exactly
he and Enrique do down here in Panama. In addition
to running the club, their financiers. Basically, they loan out money.
And they explain to me that they're Bank of Boston
Penalves and all their operations going on to Panama. We're
(08:52):
all run through their shell company that was owned by
three people. Enrique saysar in a silent third partner, and
I said really, I said okay, And they said, well,
what do you want to do in Panama? It's a
loaded question. Stephen is still not one hundred percent sure
(09:13):
whether he can really trust these guys. All I tell
him is I have millions of dollars I need to
bank in Panama, and I need to fly it in
from the US, and I need security at the airport
and secure banks. Caesar died in the eighties, so I
couldn't interview him, but according to Stephen, Caesar was very accommodating.
He tells Stephen, yes, we can definitely help you with that,
(09:35):
and to prove it, they take him to the Bank
of Credit and Commerce International, well known then as BCCI
to make the necessary introductions. Stephen wheels in his cash
and makes his deposits and there's no fee, no commission
or anything, just thank you for your business. Afterwards, they
do the same thing for him at another bank. It's
(09:57):
all going splendidly so far. The question is what does
Caesar and Enrique want from him? And the next day,
back at the Penthouse Club, Caesar makes his pitch. He
says he has a business that loans money to the
Panama Defense Forces. In fact, the military needs financing for
equipment a two point two million dollars helicopter, it turns out,
(10:18):
and maybe Stephen could front the money if you're interested.
You can make three hundred thousand dollars for setting up
the financing, and then you can make ten percent interests
annually own that financing, and it'll be backed up by
a letter of credit from the Panamanian Defense Forces. Well,
I said, well that sounds good. You're basically loan sharking
(10:40):
money to the Panamanian military pretty much. They go on
to offer Stephen a twenty five percent stake in their business,
which includes the club and the loan sharking business. Stephen
pauses a beat and then asks, I go, okay, what's
the buy in? And they go four in a grand
and I go okay, well, what's four in a grand
(11:01):
buy me? They go, well, there's only one catch. You
got to meet our partner, and I go, well, who's
your ark And they go, oh, it's General Noriega. And
I go, okay, well who is General Noriega? And they
both look at each other like I'm stupid, and I go, look, guys,
(11:24):
you know, excuse me. I don't know how things work here,
so you got to explain it to me. So they explain.
Noriega is the strong man who currently controls Panama, and
his story it goes like this. Manuel Noriega was born
in Panama City in nineteen thirty four. Abandoned by his parents,
(11:46):
he was raised by a woman called Mama Luisa, who
we referred to as his godmother. He was a smart kid,
gets into a really prestigious high school. But he's not
just smart. He's an operator. As a teenager, he joins
Panama's socialist youth party, goes to protests, and writes articles
criticizing Uncle Sam. Noriega goes onto a military academy in Peru.
(12:07):
He returns and joins the National Guard. He then rises
through the ranks, eventually becoming a general, and once he's
at the top, he maintains power brutally. All this time,
he's developing a close relationship with the CIA. He quietly
supports the Contras, a right wing military group in Nicaragua.
He helps the d EA and the drug wars. He's
(12:28):
also close with Fidale Castro in Cuba. This is a
guy who plays all sides and all the while he
lines his own pockets and little business deals with the
likes of Caesar and Enrique. And at the club and
the penthouse overlooking Panama City, Caesar and Enrique tell Stephen,
you two can be part of our little partnership, but
(12:52):
you gotta meet Noriega first. And he's got a site
off only being part of the company. So I said, okay, well,
let's go met Noriega. So Caesa says, well, he might
take him our present, and I go, what do you
(13:13):
mean take him at present? He goes, well, you know,
as a sign of respect and a sign that you're
serious about learning the stay in Panama and dupists in Panama,
you might want to give him something of value. So
he stuffs three hundred thousand dollars in a briefcase and
(13:35):
heads over to Noriega's house. This would be just a
three hundred thousand dollars gift, separate from the four hundred
K he'd already put in. It was like well a sweetener.
Stephen hoped that it would do the trick. When we
come back after the break, Stephen meets the general. So
(14:07):
Stephen Kayleish, the gentleman smuggler, you know, the hippie kid
from Texas. He gets a ride over to General Manuel
Noriega's house with his briefcase filled with cash. Ah. We's
got high walls with ivory growing in, lots of military
personnel walking patrolling the area. It's a beautiful home. I'm
(14:29):
escorted in his office and I sit down and I
set the briefcase down next to his desk. Noriega is
dressed in his military uniform. His most unusual feature is
the skin on his face, which is badly pockmarked. Some
people even called him a pineapple face, but always behind
his back, never ever to his face. To Stephen, he's
(14:53):
very friendly. They start chatting small talk, and eventually Noriega
asked him why he's in Panama, and Stephen kind of
boldly says, he's looking for a new home, place that
I can live in peace and quiet out I under
the prying eyes at the US cover month, I said,
(15:13):
I earn a lot of money, not interested in baying
US taxes, and I want to bank my money's in panamall.
According to Stephen, Riega quickly tells him not to worry.
He would personally look after Steven's needs and that was
kind of it. Stephen says, thank you, and he gets
up to leave without the briefcase. Noriega, noticing this, calls
(15:37):
after him. I turned around and said, no, it's pot
a team, but I said it's for you, and he
goes looks at me, you know, pretty serious faith, and
I just smile. The gift goes over well. Stephen thought
he might make some money by joining this little partnership,
(15:59):
but he slowly realizes that what he'd really get was
an ally, a very powerful ally. Later on saysar it's
a call from Noriega. He wants Stephen to join them
at a private party that night at the offices of
the Panama Canal Company. We go to the offices, I
don't know, around six six thirty and it's like I'm
(16:22):
Noriega's best friend. I mean, when I show up, he
gives me an open embrace with both arms and says
that I'm welcome in Panama. And he'll make sure that
everything goes away. I wanted to go. The party is
(16:43):
mainly military people, a dozen or so colonels, a few majors,
and a bunch of beautiful women. Lots to eat and drink.
It's a scene that Stephen very much enjoys. At some point,
Noriega offers to show him around. Noriega takes me to
his own office, and it's this beautiful office that overlooks
(17:04):
with picture windows overlooking the Panama Canal. Noriega goes back
to the party and closes the door to his office
and leads me sitting at his desk watching ships go
by in the Bantama Canal, thinking about that third grade
report I wrote, making out line to Cocaine no Noriega's
(17:26):
desk and storming the lines right, thinking okay, I think
Panama is going to work out just fine. And it did.
Steven soon returned to Panama with another couple million dollars
and per Noriega's instructions, landed at his air Force base
(17:48):
and there was no customs, there was no immigration, there
was no inspection of anything. Our jet taxied over to
the air Force base and every day had literally climbed
out of the plane into the limousine they'd off Were
you with? In time, Stephen manages to get multiple Panamanian passports,
including a diplomatic passport. It was a money launderer's dream,
(18:13):
especially for Stephen, who was still a fugitive for his
entire adult life. Stephen Kayliss had been running from and
evading the law, and now he was protected by a
man who was seemingly above the law. Stephen was untouchable.
For me, it was not enough. I mean I wanted more, because,
(18:33):
if you know, the evolution from having money becomes having power,
and Panama was an opportunity to have power, real power.
So I asked myself what it would take, you know,
what's it going to take for Noriega to really to
trust me and for me to solidify this relationship. So
(18:58):
next Stephen makes it his goal to get closer to
Noriega literally, or I want to find home, you know,
in close proximity, you know, and close proximity to what
I mean? Are you actively thinking I want to become
Noriega's neighbor, Well, I want to live in the same area. Yeah,
And he does it. Within months of their first meeting.
(19:20):
Stephen finds a house just three blocks away from Noriega,
and the relationship just grows from there. Stephen introduces him
to women, wrangles an invitation to Noriega's ranch, even gets
the general to stations soldiers outside of his house to
stand guard, And when Noriega gets invited to Washington, DC
in November of nineteen eighty three for an official visit,
(19:42):
Stephen loans him his personal jet to use while he's
in the US. On this visit, he met with a
host of top level US officials, including the Secretary of Defense.
He also met with William Casey, the director of the CIA.
Noriega described their meeting as a leisurely four hour lunch.
(20:03):
In his memoir, he wrote, I had been the US
contact person throughout the nineteen seventies. I was well known
to everyone in the CIA. Now with Casey, the relations
would become tighter. After his time in DC, Noriega took
Stephen's jet to Las Vegas, where he shopped, drank, and
played Roulette. Then we came back to panamall well. He
(20:26):
insisted that ip it is receiving line when he was
returning to panamall right, so I'm waiting in line as
he getting off of my jap. Stephen says that Noriega
makes his way down the receiving line and then stops.
When he gets to Stephen. They have a quick chat.
Noriega says, the US wants him to do two things.
(20:47):
One keep helping the Contras, that right wing militia in Nicaragua,
and two open up the banks in Panama for inspection.
Stephen was hanging on Noriega's every word. Inspections would mean
trouble for him, but Noriega puts his fears to rest.
He goes, I don't remind help him with a contras.
(21:09):
I'd never opened the banks. Stephen let that sink in.
The top power brokers in the US wanted to clean
up Panama's banking sector, which would ruin Stephen's money laundering scheme,
and Noriega says he rebuffed them, told them no. This
is all according to Stephen. In Noriega's memoir, he doesn't
(21:30):
mention meeting Kaylish, making this deal, or using his plane,
But then again, why would he. This is not the
kind of relationship you want to advertise. In any case,
Stephen was pleased. I'm thinking this is what power looks like.
I've never felt safe in my life. I have this
(21:51):
great home, I have great staff, I got military guards
outside my house. You know, I feel pretty untouchable at
the moment. Stephen soon began planning a four hundred thousand
pound load destined for New York City, disguised as a
shipment of plantation hanes from Panama. So it's full steam ahead.
(22:14):
As a token of his gratitude, Stephen started lavishing Noriega
with gifts. But what exactly do you buy for the
dictator who's got everything? Stephen starts by giving him two
gold plated rifles and some ivory handled pistols collector's pieces
worth in total about thirty thousand dollars. But he was
just getting started. I bought Noriega a presidential plane. I
(22:39):
actually paid the millions of dollars for it and got
a letter of credit from the Panamanian government for it.
Just to be clear here, what Stephen really did was
provide the financing. Nonetheless, it was a grand gesture, and
naturally he had an ulterior motive. Stephen just wanted a
small favor to occasionally have his plane fly to Washington,
(23:00):
d C. Where Steven's guys would load it up with
some trunks of drug money marked with diplomatic seals. The
seals would mean no one could open them. In return,
Noriega would get a cut. According to Stephen, Noriega agreed.
At this point. You may be wondering what happened to
(23:20):
Lee Rich mister beach club. Wasn't he the guy in charge.
He did make at least one trip to Panama with Stephen,
But this whole Panama thing, it was Steven's baby, and
once Stephen was buddy buddy with Noriega, everything began to change.
Stephen was now handling the smuggling and the financing. Lee
(23:41):
wasn't entirely comfortable with this arrangement, but there wasn't a
lot he could do about it. They needed Noriega now.
As for Stephen, who'd been a fugitive for years, he
finally felt like you could breathe a bit easier. He
didn't need the Canons or the US for that matter.
He could just chill in Panama. But he was still
(24:02):
handling the logistics for his massive op America's heartland. There
were a few things he still had to do, like
closing down his safe house in Tampa, so he returned stateside,
and that's when the FEDS nabbed him. This was the
big arrest at the airport in Tampa that we told
you about an episode four. So when I finally did
(24:23):
get arrested, I figured, well, maybe I'll figure this out somehow.
And I had millions of dollars stashed in panamall and
so they was from that day four. Then I started
working on a way how to get up get myself
out of my problem. Meanwhile, back on the Cayman Islands,
(24:44):
Lee Rich Mister Beach Club was left to clean up
the mess. He now had to juggle it all, smuggling,
money laundering and just trying to stay out of jail
all the while Ned was just one step behind him.
When we come back, Ned starts to connect the dots,
and so does the CIA. It takes Ned a little
(25:20):
while to piece it all together because at first, when
Lee mentioned the general down and came in, Ned was
just confused. I had no idea if that's talking about
Columbia or or you know who where. But then Ned
recalled another clue that Lee had dropped a couple days later.
He referred to him as old pineapple face. Pineapple face,
(25:43):
that's what did it. Eventually Ned realizes who this must be.
He didn't know all the details or politics surrounding Noriega,
but he knew enough. Noriega was the CIA's boy into
Castro and into the Russians big boys club. Okay. Ned
worried that his discovery would stir up trouble in a
(26:05):
big way. And the CIA, in my mind, really didn't
give a shit about drugs or what was going on.
They're focused on their mission, which was intelligence and the
big picture. By exposing Noriega as a bad guy, Ned
would be interfering with the CIA's mission, and that's not
(26:28):
something Ned wanted to do. He was already pretty worn out. Remember,
he had just returned home from a stressful time down
in the Caymans, and now he had a new potential enemy,
the CIA. He began imagining how this all might play out.
CIA always has contract people that worked for them. They'll
(26:48):
kill you, and I didn't trust them. I was constantly
leary of them. A bit paranoid maybe, but his worries
about pissing off the CIA were well founded. Over the years,
Noriega had worked hard to cultivate an image as an
ally in the US War on drugs. These efforts got
(27:10):
him friends in Washington. Noriega had a whole stack of
letters from his US admirers, like one from the U. S.
Attorney General written in nineteen eighty four, which said, thank
you for your continued support and our mutual efforts to
suppress illicit drug trafficking and to ensure a safer and
healthier environment for all of our citizens. So if this
(27:33):
got out that Noriega was in fact at the very
top of this massive drug smuggling operation, well that'd be
a huge embarrassment to the American government at large. The
CIA did eventually get wind of Ned's investigation. At some
point they contacted another FBI agent who worked closely with NED.
(27:55):
I spoke with this agent. He's now retired, but still,
even all these years later, he didn't want to go
on the record. He told me that two CIA agents
invited him to lunch and then very casually started asking
him questions. It's about Noriega. He understood immediately what was
going on. They wanted to suss out what the FBI
(28:16):
knew about Noriega. They were apparently concerned because he was
their asset. The agent told me he managed to brush
off the CIA guys. But soon enough all of this
would come to a head. After two stints down in
(28:37):
the Canens, Ned eventually goes back home to Detroit to
his wife, Kathy Timmins. He was beat. At this point.
He'd been working on the case for about three years.
During that time, he'd been living as two people, Ed
and Ned, switching back and forth again and again until
even in his own mind, it all kind of got jumbled.
(28:58):
Cathy said. Ned sometimes confided in her that he felt
trapped stuck in the role of undercover agent, but that
he also couldn't imagine returning the life of a regular agent.
And he said, you know, I just I can't go back.
I don't think I can go back to just you know,
working cases in this man. I said, of course you can,
and He's like, no, I don't think I can. And
(29:18):
you know, I was looking at these pizza places. I
was like, I don't want to run pizza places. I'm
an FBI agent, you know. Cathy says. Ned actually drove
them over to a pizza parlor that he had his
eyes on. He pulled into the parking lot and I
mean I never even got out of the car, I
said Ned. I'm not going to going to the pizza
business like stop. Strangely, when I mentioned all of this
(29:42):
to Ned, the plan to open the pizza shop, the
conversation with Kathy, his desire to get out, he didn't
remember it, any of it. I have no recollection of
a pizzeria or any interest in a pizzeria. I have
no idea you have no memory of that. No, Ned
(30:03):
did acknowledge that he knew Kathy felt frustrated and concerned
that his undercover life was getting out of control. Role Kathleen,
may you know, I mean, she's very smart, and she's
very credible. You know, he has been. And if that's
what she remembers, that's what she remembers. And that's pretty
much all I got from him. If what Kathy said
(30:24):
was true, then it was almost like he'd gone back
and edited his own memories, removed the moments of doubt
and frailty that didn't fit into the hard boiled detective narrative,
almost like he and the ghostwriter had done in the novel.
In many ways, Ned and Kathy seemed to exist in
two parallel but entirely separate realities, and perhaps the ultimate
(30:49):
example of this involves an incident that occurred a few
months after Ned got back from the Caymans, when both
of their lives came to a screeching halt. For Kathy,
it all began at the firing range. She was there
doing some target practice when she heard an announcement. They
called out from the tower for me, you know, get
(31:11):
off the firing line, and they said, oh, come on,
you got to go with us, got to take you home.
And I said, oh my god, what happened. Her colleagues
who came to get her, laid it all out that
Ned's undercover identity had been compromised, and that someone in
(31:31):
that motorcycle group had a meeting, and that they had
put a hit on Ned and they were going to
lure him to a location and give him a hot
shot of drugs and kill him, and that they also
knew where we lived. They escorted her home so she
(31:54):
could pick up some stuff. By the time I arrived home,
I mean, the swat team was all, you know, hanging
out around the house and inside the house, and Ned
was in there packing and then we just like I said,
we packed up. We got in the car and we
started heading up north. So Ned and Cathy had to
be exfiltrated, whisked away immediately because they were in grave danger.
(32:19):
That was Kathy's reality. Now. I also talked to Ned
about what happened. What is going through your head as
they stand on your doorstep and say you've got to
leave your house. Well, I had him in and had
coffee with him. Ned listens to the agents and realizes
he has to flee his home. He said, okay, perfect
(32:43):
me and all my one of my best friends has
got to lodge in northern Michigan and the salmon fishing
is hot, and I'll go there. You seem pretty like
blase or kind of unruffled by this. A lot of
people have threatened to kill me, so it's part of
the turf. Eventually they get up to a little house
(33:04):
way up in northern Michigan. No one is around, and
all they can really do is hope the FBI finds
the biker guys who were out to kill Ned. They
just wait for the call, the call that tells them
it's okay, we've got them. You can come home now.
(33:24):
As Kathy recalls it, the time up there was tense.
Ned's initial blase attitude apparently didn't last he's left just
to stew in his own thoughts because everything has finally stopped,
and in its absence, the anxiety just pours in like
a damn had broken. He was drinking just so hard.
(33:50):
He was a nervous like not nervous like oh I'm scared,
nervous like I could see that. You know. He wasn't
getting enough sleep, he wasn't his nerves run ends. Kathy
wasn't certain what to do, and so I was always
wary of saying too much or pushing too much back
(34:14):
because I didn't want anybody to know. I didn't want
to go to his supervisor and say, you know, with
the whole kind of oversight, is this you know you
need to pull him in just for a second. Were
you not doing that out of a sense of loyalty
to him? What was what? Why not? Why didn't you
go to the supervisor and say, like, hey, well, because
he was my husband, Um, you know I loved him.
(34:37):
I kept telling him you need to stop, just that
that this has got to stop, that all of this
intrusion into our personal lives has to stop. This is crazy.
Here we are up in northern Michigan for weeks on
end with nothing to do, waiting for phone calls. You
(34:58):
know this, This is not any kind of a life
that I want to lead, And this isn't what any
of us signed up for. Next time and deep Cover,
(35:27):
did I sit down, I have lunch or dinner with him? No? Okay,
I just I was aware of him. I was very
aware of him. I remember the day that that timms
I ever got involved with me. I wish I had
never heard my name. Deep Cover is produced by Jacob
(36:02):
Smith and edited by Karen Shakerge. Our story editor is
Jack hit. Original music and our theme was composed by
Luis Gara and Flawn Williams is our engineer. Fact checking
by Amy Gaines. Mia Lobell is Pushkin's executive producer. Ned's
novel is read by Walton Goggins. Special thanks to Julia Barton,
(36:24):
Heather Faine, Carly mcgliori, Leta Mullad, Maya Caning, Eric Sandler,
Aggie Taylor, Kadija Holland, Zoe Gwen and Jacob Weisberg at
Pushkin Industries. Special thanks also to Jeff Singer at Stowaway Entertainment.
I'm Jake Albern
Pushkin previously on deep cover. During the late spring of
nineteen eighty five, FBI agent Ned Timmins was deep undercover
in the Cayman Islands. His goal was to spy on
Lee Rich, the kingpin of the drug syndicate. As he
(00:37):
got closer to Lee and deeper into this world, he
became increasingly worried. The stress is unbelievable. There's no backup.
You're not gonna really hit the radio and call nine
on one. You're nine. You're not gonna be able to
call for help because nobody's coming. Meanwhile, Lee had problems
(00:58):
of his own. He worried that the FEDS were watching him,
and to complicate matters, he says, his go to bank
in the Caymans was no longer accepting his money for
Ned Timmins. Being undercover and the Caymans meant hanging out
(01:19):
with Lee Rich's guys. He'd chill out on the beach
or at the club and listen for clues. Well, I
usually was given something to do, you know, oversee the barbecues,
or make sure there was no trouble at the bar
with any of the guests. Not exactly the stuff of
Sherlock Holmes, but ned couldn't ask questions really because that
(01:41):
would draw suspicions give him away as a narc. So
he just kept on listening. And then one day Lee
made a cryptic reference to someone apparently in the organization
called the general, and I just okay, not knowing general
of what or general who or whatever, and does your
(02:01):
whole thing is don't ask questions exactly. You start asking
questions and people get suspicious. But what's your react action
to that? Oh? Actually, in the middle of this, they
realized that I had never been to Advanced Undercover School
at Quantico, which is two week school. And I got
(02:25):
orders and they go, oh, you haven't been to Advanced
undercover school. You got to go to that. It seemed
like this was the equivalent of a fireman getting called
out of a burning building to take a refresher class
on how to use a hose. But this was part
of a relatively new effort by the FBI to rain
in and standardize it's undercover practices. So I had to
(02:47):
make up a story to Lee. I can't remember whether
made up something that I had to go someplace or
two weeks. So I go back to Quantico and go
through Advanced undercover school. You know that's the rules. Whatever.
What did you learn an advanced undercover school? I don't remember.
You know what to do and what not to do
and whatever. So not especially interested in his class work,
(03:11):
it seems, and perhaps that's because his thoughts were still
back in the Caymans. That comment about the General he
got him thinking. Was this just some stupid nickname or
was Lee talking about an actual general? Was it possible
that there was someone above Lee. That's just the mindset
(03:33):
of the FBI. We're going to work this up right
to the top, just like the mafia. We're going to
go after the dis We're going to go to the
top of the food chain and crime. Our objective is
to work up and kill the head of the snake.
I'm Jake Halpern and this is Deep Cover Episode six.
(03:58):
The silent partner. Ned didn't know it at the time,
(04:27):
but the general that Lee was talking about, and the
revelation of who he really was would change everything in
this investigation. And the story of the General really begins
about two years earlier. So we're going to turn back
the clock to September of nineteen eighty three. At this point,
(04:49):
Ned is still hanging out in biker bars in Detroit.
Lee Rich, mister beach Club if you will, is still
living the high life in the Caymans, and Stephen Kaylish,
the gentleman smuggler, has not yet been arrested. Everything's going
great for these guys except for one thing, their money laundering.
(05:10):
Le's go to bank in the Caymans, the Bank of
Nova Scotia wasn't an option, So now Lee and Stephen
were looking for somewhere else to launder their money. At
the time, Stephen says, they were trying to move a
whole bunch of small bills about fifteen million dollars worth.
Just to give you a sense of how much cash
that was, it weigh about sixteen hundred pounds, so a
(05:34):
lot of money. And now they had nowhere to put it.
So Lee and Stephen they start thinking about where else
they could take their money and bank it well. The
other only other solid banking haven that I knew was
secure was Panama. In the early nineteen seventies, Panama more
(05:56):
or less deregulated banking, very little oversight now taxes on
foreign income, and by the time Stephen and Lee were
in their bind, lots of new banks had opened their
doors in Panama, which was enticing. Plus, Stephen liked Panama.
I don't a book report in the third grade about
the Panama Canal, so it had always held a special
(06:19):
place of my art. Stephen's summary of its history in
his third grade book report, it's basically right, the building
of the canal and the failures of the French I mean,
the whole way. Panama was actually became a country, you know,
stolen from Columbia, basically by the US. When Panama broke
(06:39):
away from Columbia in nineteen oh three, the United States
lent its support. Then the US signed a treaty with
Panama and took control of a zone about ten miles
wide and fifty miles long. There was a canal there,
or the start of one. Anyhow, the US completed it
and then stuck around to control that canal and you know,
cash in on it. So anyway, Panama had a lot
(07:03):
of allure in Look, I've always been a risk taker, right,
and a guy with a good rolodex. Stephen eventually connects
with a guy named Caesar Rodriguez. He was a businessman
done in Panama with connections to the banking world. A
guy who could make things happen. So Stephen plans a visit.
He packs for the trip, you know, the usual change
(07:26):
of clothes and about three million in cash stuffed into
some luggage. Then he flies down to Panama in a
private jet. He lands at the airport in Panama and
his contact, Caesar, is there to greet him in person.
He's a young guy, good looking, very friendly, speaks perfect English,
and he has not one but two stretch limos waiting
(07:48):
for them. They all head downtown to the Bank of
Boston building where Caesar operated a club and a big,
sprawling penthouse. I mean it's very posh, it's very tricked out.
There's a small little nightclub or restaurant, and Caesar tells Stephen,
we have a private club here but for Hali businessmen
(08:11):
and certain military officials that come here for dining and
drinking and parting in a discreet environment. Later that night
they sit down and have a meal. They're joined by
another guy named Enrique Protelt. Casar introduces Enrique as his partner,
(08:31):
and then very casually, Caesar starts to explain what exactly
he and Enrique do down here in Panama. In addition
to running the club, their financiers. Basically, they loan out money.
And they explain to me that they're Bank of Boston
Penalves and all their operations going on to Panama. We're
(08:52):
all run through their shell company that was owned by
three people. Enrique saysar in a silent third partner, and
I said really, I said okay, And they said, well,
what do you want to do in Panama? It's a
loaded question. Stephen is still not one hundred percent sure
(09:13):
whether he can really trust these guys. All I tell
him is I have millions of dollars I need to
bank in Panama, and I need to fly it in
from the US, and I need security at the airport
and secure banks. Caesar died in the eighties, so I
couldn't interview him, but according to Stephen, Caesar was very accommodating.
He tells Stephen, yes, we can definitely help you with that,
(09:35):
and to prove it, they take him to the Bank
of Credit and Commerce International, well known then as BCCI
to make the necessary introductions. Stephen wheels in his cash
and makes his deposits and there's no fee, no commission
or anything, just thank you for your business. Afterwards, they
do the same thing for him at another bank. It's
(09:57):
all going splendidly so far. The question is what does
Caesar and Enrique want from him? And the next day,
back at the Penthouse Club, Caesar makes his pitch. He
says he has a business that loans money to the
Panama Defense Forces. In fact, the military needs financing for
equipment a two point two million dollars helicopter, it turns out,
(10:18):
and maybe Stephen could front the money if you're interested.
You can make three hundred thousand dollars for setting up
the financing, and then you can make ten percent interests
annually own that financing, and it'll be backed up by
a letter of credit from the Panamanian Defense Forces. Well,
I said, well that sounds good. You're basically loan sharking
(10:40):
money to the Panamanian military pretty much. They go on
to offer Stephen a twenty five percent stake in their business,
which includes the club and the loan sharking business. Stephen
pauses a beat and then asks, I go, okay, what's
the buy in? And they go four in a grand
and I go okay, well, what's four in a grand
(11:01):
buy me? They go, well, there's only one catch. You
got to meet our partner, and I go, well, who's
your ark And they go, oh, it's General Noriega. And
I go, okay, well who is General Noriega? And they
both look at each other like I'm stupid, and I go, look, guys,
(11:24):
you know, excuse me. I don't know how things work here,
so you got to explain it to me. So they explain.
Noriega is the strong man who currently controls Panama, and
his story it goes like this. Manuel Noriega was born
in Panama City in nineteen thirty four. Abandoned by his parents,
(11:46):
he was raised by a woman called Mama Luisa, who
we referred to as his godmother. He was a smart kid,
gets into a really prestigious high school. But he's not
just smart. He's an operator. As a teenager, he joins
Panama's socialist youth party, goes to protests, and writes articles
criticizing Uncle Sam. Noriega goes onto a military academy in Peru.
(12:07):
He returns and joins the National Guard. He then rises
through the ranks, eventually becoming a general, and once he's
at the top, he maintains power brutally. All this time,
he's developing a close relationship with the CIA. He quietly
supports the Contras, a right wing military group in Nicaragua.
He helps the d EA and the drug wars. He's
(12:28):
also close with Fidale Castro in Cuba. This is a
guy who plays all sides and all the while he
lines his own pockets and little business deals with the
likes of Caesar and Enrique. And at the club and
the penthouse overlooking Panama City, Caesar and Enrique tell Stephen,
you two can be part of our little partnership, but
(12:52):
you gotta meet Noriega first. And he's got a site
off only being part of the company. So I said, okay, well,
let's go met Noriega. So Caesa says, well, he might
take him our present, and I go, what do you
(13:13):
mean take him at present? He goes, well, you know,
as a sign of respect and a sign that you're
serious about learning the stay in Panama and dupists in Panama,
you might want to give him something of value. So
he stuffs three hundred thousand dollars in a briefcase and
(13:35):
heads over to Noriega's house. This would be just a
three hundred thousand dollars gift, separate from the four hundred
K he'd already put in. It was like well a sweetener.
Stephen hoped that it would do the trick. When we
come back after the break, Stephen meets the general. So
(14:07):
Stephen Kayleish, the gentleman smuggler, you know, the hippie kid
from Texas. He gets a ride over to General Manuel
Noriega's house with his briefcase filled with cash. Ah. We's
got high walls with ivory growing in, lots of military
personnel walking patrolling the area. It's a beautiful home. I'm
(14:29):
escorted in his office and I sit down and I
set the briefcase down next to his desk. Noriega is
dressed in his military uniform. His most unusual feature is
the skin on his face, which is badly pockmarked. Some
people even called him a pineapple face, but always behind
his back, never ever to his face. To Stephen, he's
(14:53):
very friendly. They start chatting small talk, and eventually Noriega
asked him why he's in Panama, and Stephen kind of
boldly says, he's looking for a new home, place that
I can live in peace and quiet out I under
the prying eyes at the US cover month, I said,
(15:13):
I earn a lot of money, not interested in baying
US taxes, and I want to bank my money's in panamall.
According to Stephen, Riega quickly tells him not to worry.
He would personally look after Steven's needs and that was
kind of it. Stephen says, thank you, and he gets
up to leave without the briefcase. Noriega, noticing this, calls
(15:37):
after him. I turned around and said, no, it's pot
a team, but I said it's for you, and he
goes looks at me, you know, pretty serious faith, and
I just smile. The gift goes over well. Stephen thought
he might make some money by joining this little partnership,
(15:59):
but he slowly realizes that what he'd really get was
an ally, a very powerful ally. Later on saysar it's
a call from Noriega. He wants Stephen to join them
at a private party that night at the offices of
the Panama Canal Company. We go to the offices, I
don't know, around six six thirty and it's like I'm
(16:22):
Noriega's best friend. I mean, when I show up, he
gives me an open embrace with both arms and says
that I'm welcome in Panama. And he'll make sure that
everything goes away. I wanted to go. The party is
(16:43):
mainly military people, a dozen or so colonels, a few majors,
and a bunch of beautiful women. Lots to eat and drink.
It's a scene that Stephen very much enjoys. At some point,
Noriega offers to show him around. Noriega takes me to
his own office, and it's this beautiful office that overlooks
(17:04):
with picture windows overlooking the Panama Canal. Noriega goes back
to the party and closes the door to his office
and leads me sitting at his desk watching ships go
by in the Bantama Canal, thinking about that third grade
report I wrote, making out line to Cocaine no Noriega's
(17:26):
desk and storming the lines right, thinking okay, I think
Panama is going to work out just fine. And it did.
Steven soon returned to Panama with another couple million dollars
and per Noriega's instructions, landed at his air Force base
(17:48):
and there was no customs, there was no immigration, there
was no inspection of anything. Our jet taxied over to
the air Force base and every day had literally climbed
out of the plane into the limousine they'd off Were
you with? In time, Stephen manages to get multiple Panamanian passports,
including a diplomatic passport. It was a money launderer's dream,
(18:13):
especially for Stephen, who was still a fugitive for his
entire adult life. Stephen Kayliss had been running from and
evading the law, and now he was protected by a
man who was seemingly above the law. Stephen was untouchable.
For me, it was not enough. I mean I wanted more, because,
(18:33):
if you know, the evolution from having money becomes having power,
and Panama was an opportunity to have power, real power.
So I asked myself what it would take, you know,
what's it going to take for Noriega to really to
trust me and for me to solidify this relationship. So
(18:58):
next Stephen makes it his goal to get closer to
Noriega literally, or I want to find home, you know,
in close proximity, you know, and close proximity to what
I mean? Are you actively thinking I want to become
Noriega's neighbor, Well, I want to live in the same area. Yeah,
And he does it. Within months of their first meeting.
(19:20):
Stephen finds a house just three blocks away from Noriega,
and the relationship just grows from there. Stephen introduces him
to women, wrangles an invitation to Noriega's ranch, even gets
the general to stations soldiers outside of his house to
stand guard, And when Noriega gets invited to Washington, DC
in November of nineteen eighty three for an official visit,
(19:42):
Stephen loans him his personal jet to use while he's
in the US. On this visit, he met with a
host of top level US officials, including the Secretary of Defense.
He also met with William Casey, the director of the CIA.
Noriega described their meeting as a leisurely four hour lunch.
(20:03):
In his memoir, he wrote, I had been the US
contact person throughout the nineteen seventies. I was well known
to everyone in the CIA. Now with Casey, the relations
would become tighter. After his time in DC, Noriega took
Stephen's jet to Las Vegas, where he shopped, drank, and
played Roulette. Then we came back to panamall well. He
(20:26):
insisted that ip it is receiving line when he was
returning to panamall right, so I'm waiting in line as
he getting off of my jap. Stephen says that Noriega
makes his way down the receiving line and then stops.
When he gets to Stephen. They have a quick chat.
Noriega says, the US wants him to do two things.
(20:47):
One keep helping the Contras, that right wing militia in Nicaragua,
and two open up the banks in Panama for inspection.
Stephen was hanging on Noriega's every word. Inspections would mean
trouble for him, but Noriega puts his fears to rest.
He goes, I don't remind help him with a contras.
(21:09):
I'd never opened the banks. Stephen let that sink in.
The top power brokers in the US wanted to clean
up Panama's banking sector, which would ruin Stephen's money laundering scheme,
and Noriega says he rebuffed them, told them no. This
is all according to Stephen. In Noriega's memoir, he doesn't
(21:30):
mention meeting Kaylish, making this deal, or using his plane,
But then again, why would he. This is not the
kind of relationship you want to advertise. In any case,
Stephen was pleased. I'm thinking this is what power looks like.
I've never felt safe in my life. I have this
(21:51):
great home, I have great staff, I got military guards
outside my house. You know, I feel pretty untouchable at
the moment. Stephen soon began planning a four hundred thousand
pound load destined for New York City, disguised as a
shipment of plantation hanes from Panama. So it's full steam ahead.
(22:14):
As a token of his gratitude, Stephen started lavishing Noriega
with gifts. But what exactly do you buy for the
dictator who's got everything? Stephen starts by giving him two
gold plated rifles and some ivory handled pistols collector's pieces
worth in total about thirty thousand dollars. But he was
just getting started. I bought Noriega a presidential plane. I
(22:39):
actually paid the millions of dollars for it and got
a letter of credit from the Panamanian government for it.
Just to be clear here, what Stephen really did was
provide the financing. Nonetheless, it was a grand gesture, and
naturally he had an ulterior motive. Stephen just wanted a
small favor to occasionally have his plane fly to Washington,
(23:00):
d C. Where Steven's guys would load it up with
some trunks of drug money marked with diplomatic seals. The
seals would mean no one could open them. In return,
Noriega would get a cut. According to Stephen, Noriega agreed.
At this point. You may be wondering what happened to
(23:20):
Lee Rich mister beach club. Wasn't he the guy in charge.
He did make at least one trip to Panama with Stephen,
But this whole Panama thing, it was Steven's baby, and
once Stephen was buddy buddy with Noriega, everything began to change.
Stephen was now handling the smuggling and the financing. Lee
(23:41):
wasn't entirely comfortable with this arrangement, but there wasn't a
lot he could do about it. They needed Noriega now.
As for Stephen, who'd been a fugitive for years, he
finally felt like you could breathe a bit easier. He
didn't need the Canons or the US for that matter.
He could just chill in Panama. But he was still
(24:02):
handling the logistics for his massive op America's heartland. There
were a few things he still had to do, like
closing down his safe house in Tampa, so he returned stateside,
and that's when the FEDS nabbed him. This was the
big arrest at the airport in Tampa that we told
you about an episode four. So when I finally did
(24:23):
get arrested, I figured, well, maybe I'll figure this out somehow.
And I had millions of dollars stashed in panamall and
so they was from that day four. Then I started
working on a way how to get up get myself
out of my problem. Meanwhile, back on the Cayman Islands,
(24:44):
Lee Rich Mister Beach Club was left to clean up
the mess. He now had to juggle it all, smuggling,
money laundering and just trying to stay out of jail
all the while Ned was just one step behind him.
When we come back, Ned starts to connect the dots,
and so does the CIA. It takes Ned a little
(25:20):
while to piece it all together because at first, when
Lee mentioned the general down and came in, Ned was
just confused. I had no idea if that's talking about
Columbia or or you know who where. But then Ned
recalled another clue that Lee had dropped a couple days later.
He referred to him as old pineapple face. Pineapple face,
(25:43):
that's what did it. Eventually Ned realizes who this must be.
He didn't know all the details or politics surrounding Noriega,
but he knew enough. Noriega was the CIA's boy into
Castro and into the Russians big boys club. Okay. Ned
worried that his discovery would stir up trouble in a
(26:05):
big way. And the CIA, in my mind, really didn't
give a shit about drugs or what was going on.
They're focused on their mission, which was intelligence and the
big picture. By exposing Noriega as a bad guy, Ned
would be interfering with the CIA's mission, and that's not
(26:28):
something Ned wanted to do. He was already pretty worn out. Remember,
he had just returned home from a stressful time down
in the Caymans, and now he had a new potential enemy,
the CIA. He began imagining how this all might play out.
CIA always has contract people that worked for them. They'll
(26:48):
kill you, and I didn't trust them. I was constantly
leary of them. A bit paranoid maybe, but his worries
about pissing off the CIA were well founded. Over the years,
Noriega had worked hard to cultivate an image as an
ally in the US War on drugs. These efforts got
(27:10):
him friends in Washington. Noriega had a whole stack of
letters from his US admirers, like one from the U. S.
Attorney General written in nineteen eighty four, which said, thank
you for your continued support and our mutual efforts to
suppress illicit drug trafficking and to ensure a safer and
healthier environment for all of our citizens. So if this
(27:33):
got out that Noriega was in fact at the very
top of this massive drug smuggling operation, well that'd be
a huge embarrassment to the American government at large. The
CIA did eventually get wind of Ned's investigation. At some
point they contacted another FBI agent who worked closely with NED.
(27:55):
I spoke with this agent. He's now retired, but still,
even all these years later, he didn't want to go
on the record. He told me that two CIA agents
invited him to lunch and then very casually started asking
him questions. It's about Noriega. He understood immediately what was
going on. They wanted to suss out what the FBI
(28:16):
knew about Noriega. They were apparently concerned because he was
their asset. The agent told me he managed to brush
off the CIA guys. But soon enough all of this
would come to a head. After two stints down in
(28:37):
the Canens, Ned eventually goes back home to Detroit to
his wife, Kathy Timmins. He was beat. At this point.
He'd been working on the case for about three years.
During that time, he'd been living as two people, Ed
and Ned, switching back and forth again and again until
even in his own mind, it all kind of got jumbled.
(28:58):
Cathy said. Ned sometimes confided in her that he felt
trapped stuck in the role of undercover agent, but that
he also couldn't imagine returning the life of a regular agent.
And he said, you know, I just I can't go back.
I don't think I can go back to just you know,
working cases in this man. I said, of course you can,
and He's like, no, I don't think I can. And
(29:18):
you know, I was looking at these pizza places. I
was like, I don't want to run pizza places. I'm
an FBI agent, you know. Cathy says. Ned actually drove
them over to a pizza parlor that he had his
eyes on. He pulled into the parking lot and I
mean I never even got out of the car, I
said Ned. I'm not going to going to the pizza
business like stop. Strangely, when I mentioned all of this
(29:42):
to Ned, the plan to open the pizza shop, the
conversation with Kathy, his desire to get out, he didn't
remember it, any of it. I have no recollection of
a pizzeria or any interest in a pizzeria. I have
no idea you have no memory of that. No, Ned
(30:03):
did acknowledge that he knew Kathy felt frustrated and concerned
that his undercover life was getting out of control. Role Kathleen,
may you know, I mean, she's very smart, and she's
very credible. You know, he has been. And if that's
what she remembers, that's what she remembers. And that's pretty
much all I got from him. If what Kathy said
(30:24):
was true, then it was almost like he'd gone back
and edited his own memories, removed the moments of doubt
and frailty that didn't fit into the hard boiled detective narrative,
almost like he and the ghostwriter had done in the novel.
In many ways, Ned and Kathy seemed to exist in
two parallel but entirely separate realities, and perhaps the ultimate
(30:49):
example of this involves an incident that occurred a few
months after Ned got back from the Caymans, when both
of their lives came to a screeching halt. For Kathy,
it all began at the firing range. She was there
doing some target practice when she heard an announcement. They
called out from the tower for me, you know, get
(31:11):
off the firing line, and they said, oh, come on,
you got to go with us, got to take you home.
And I said, oh my god, what happened. Her colleagues
who came to get her, laid it all out that
Ned's undercover identity had been compromised, and that someone in
(31:31):
that motorcycle group had a meeting, and that they had
put a hit on Ned and they were going to
lure him to a location and give him a hot
shot of drugs and kill him, and that they also
knew where we lived. They escorted her home so she
(31:54):
could pick up some stuff. By the time I arrived home,
I mean, the swat team was all, you know, hanging
out around the house and inside the house, and Ned
was in there packing and then we just like I said,
we packed up. We got in the car and we
started heading up north. So Ned and Cathy had to
be exfiltrated, whisked away immediately because they were in grave danger.
(32:19):
That was Kathy's reality. Now. I also talked to Ned
about what happened. What is going through your head as
they stand on your doorstep and say you've got to
leave your house. Well, I had him in and had
coffee with him. Ned listens to the agents and realizes
he has to flee his home. He said, okay, perfect
(32:43):
me and all my one of my best friends has
got to lodge in northern Michigan and the salmon fishing
is hot, and I'll go there. You seem pretty like
blase or kind of unruffled by this. A lot of
people have threatened to kill me, so it's part of
the turf. Eventually they get up to a little house
(33:04):
way up in northern Michigan. No one is around, and
all they can really do is hope the FBI finds
the biker guys who were out to kill Ned. They
just wait for the call, the call that tells them
it's okay, we've got them. You can come home now.
(33:24):
As Kathy recalls it, the time up there was tense.
Ned's initial blase attitude apparently didn't last he's left just
to stew in his own thoughts because everything has finally stopped,
and in its absence, the anxiety just pours in like
a damn had broken. He was drinking just so hard.
(33:50):
He was a nervous like not nervous like oh I'm scared,
nervous like I could see that. You know. He wasn't
getting enough sleep, he wasn't his nerves run ends. Kathy
wasn't certain what to do, and so I was always
wary of saying too much or pushing too much back
(34:14):
because I didn't want anybody to know. I didn't want
to go to his supervisor and say, you know, with
the whole kind of oversight, is this you know you
need to pull him in just for a second. Were
you not doing that out of a sense of loyalty
to him? What was what? Why not? Why didn't you
go to the supervisor and say, like, hey, well, because
he was my husband, Um, you know I loved him.
(34:37):
I kept telling him you need to stop, just that
that this has got to stop, that all of this
intrusion into our personal lives has to stop. This is crazy.
Here we are up in northern Michigan for weeks on
end with nothing to do, waiting for phone calls. You
(34:58):
know this, This is not any kind of a life
that I want to lead, And this isn't what any
of us signed up for. Next time and deep Cover,
(35:27):
did I sit down, I have lunch or dinner with him? No? Okay,
I just I was aware of him. I was very
aware of him. I remember the day that that timms
I ever got involved with me. I wish I had
never heard my name. Deep Cover is produced by Jacob
(36:02):
Smith and edited by Karen Shakerge. Our story editor is
Jack hit. Original music and our theme was composed by
Luis Gara and Flawn Williams is our engineer. Fact checking
by Amy Gaines. Mia Lobell is Pushkin's executive producer. Ned's
novel is read by Walton Goggins. Special thanks to Julia Barton,
(36:24):
Heather Faine, Carly mcgliori, Leta Mullad, Maya Caning, Eric Sandler,
Aggie Taylor, Kadija Holland, Zoe Gwen and Jacob Weisberg at
Pushkin Industries. Special thanks also to Jeff Singer at Stowaway Entertainment.
I'm Jake Albern
Host
Jake Halpern
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