November 24, 2025 • 41 mins
Ollie turns to Lezlie's emails for clues of her whereabouts. Here, he uncovers a bizarre story involving a book deal, a ghost writer and a famous actress. Could this web of lies reveal Lezlie's motivations as a scammer? Ollie and Simon then take a flight to California and hit the road. When the trail runs cold, they decide to chase down a lead at Lezlie's first restaurant in the resort town of Lake Tahoe.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
In this episode, we've used voice actors for Leslie and
her parents, as well as her mysterious lawyer, Eric t
Weiss and his staff.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm sorry that now you'll never really know what was
real or not.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Leslie wrote that in her divorce letter to my brother Greg.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
It's like she was toying with him.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
You'll never really know what was real or not.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Leslie does draw blurry lines between fantasy and reality. She
just probably wouldn't have expected anyone to start reading between
those lines. But that's what I'm doing now, And I've
uncovered what I reckon is the strangest part of this
whole story. I've found something completely bizarre. And all those
(01:11):
emails in the box of Leslie Docks that my dad kept,
they reveal Leslie had a book deal with a big
time publisher.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
To tell the story of her life.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Well, I am going to start on a book next week.
Speaker 6 (01:31):
He believes you would be Greek at scriptwriting.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Oh my head is spinning.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Welcome to Unravel Season four. I'm Ollie Ward's and this
is Snowball. So Leslie was writing an autobiography, like some
(02:04):
kind of memoir of her crazy life. There's heaps of
details about it in her email and who's handling the
ins and outs of Leslie's book deal? Once again, enter
Leslie's lawyer, her old mate, Eric t Weiss.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
As your lawyer.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I am starting to this is the Eric who wrote
a letter to Kiwibank confirming that Leslie had a big
trust fund, and he happens to be the namesake of
the great Harry Houdini. Eric sends emails to Leslie as
he negotiates her book deal.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
If you are willing to sign a contract that they
will be your publisher for ten years, this will allot
you to begin on the other three books we have
talked about, and you will only be on yours and
Simon and Schuster's schedule.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And this is where the extra glitz really starts getting sprinkled.
Eric t Weiss isn't just a financial kind of dude
who deals with trust fund admin. He's apparently a big
shot entertainment lawyer. That's his main job.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
I am an entertainment attorney that has been in the
business for over twenty years and have worked with many
production companies, celebrities and musicians.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
I guess that explains why Eric runs into so many
famous names like in that note, Leslie maid in her
travel diary that she left a n N ZED.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
May three, New York. Eric met George Clooney, Julia Roberts
private jet.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
From Dallas, movie stars and private jets. I'd like to
imagine Eric t Weiss is like a Smami La Shobas
type guy, kind of arrogant like Ari Gold from Entourage,
but shonky like Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad. I imagine
(03:52):
him in a suit with a loud, colorful tie, and
I reckon he's got a combover.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
I have not been in my office during the days
due to the fact that I have been defending a
celebrity case. Right now, it is confidential, so I cannot
say who.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
So why is the liberty lawyer working with Leslie?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Then?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Well, from what I can see in these emails, Eric
claims to be lining Leslie up to be as rich
and famous as the rest of his crowd.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Until you become famous. You are a nobody in this industry,
but you already know that it will be worth it
one day, Leslie, So do not get depressed, continue to
be strong and remember what the end result will bring.
You will be financially secure for life and you'll be
able to buy your dad that hummer.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
You keep talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Eric is really encouraging to Leslie, like he's beyond what
you would expect the lawyer to be, which is good because,
as Leslie explains to her parents, writing a book is hard.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
The whole last ten chapters of the book that was
redone has been denied due to the fact that it
is too similar to a story that was written by
an author about ten years ago. On my head is spinning.
But Eric said that lawyers are constantly finding books that
are too similar and must have avoid a lawsuit. That
(05:16):
is why they are hired as in house attorneys. He said,
it happens all the time, and we must rewrite it
in a different wording.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
So when I read these emails about Leslie getting a
memoir published, I thought, well, that takes things up a notch.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
But that's not even the big picture.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Because that book about the story of Leslie's life was
supposedly going to be made into a movie.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
Sony cannot go forward with the movie until the book
has been released. I have recommended that the film in
Sun Valley, Idaho, which shows the same picturesque setting, is Toho.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I just can't believe how deep this world goes. So
we've got Eric t Weiss Esquire talking through the details
of a movie about Leslie based on a book by Leslie.
And that's not all. Leslie told her parents that for
the big screen version, a big name was lined up
(06:18):
to play her.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
The movie script has been accepted. In Flying Colors, Alissa
Milano has signed on.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Pretty good casting. Remember Alyssa Milano from Charmed or as
the daughter Nie goes on a rampage FOURG commando. She
is long dark here like Leslie's good choice.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Alissa Milano will be an Enza in November. She's going
to hang out with me for a week or two
to know my personality. Study it, so I'll have to
be on vacation from Greg and his family at that time.
I hope we have a house by then so I
do not have to sneak around his family. Eric said
(07:06):
that I will be getting paid starting July.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Sounds like some real method acting from Melissa Milano taking
on the role of Leslie. Ever since I read these emails,
I can't stop wondering what a movie about Leslie would
be like.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
In a world where one woman's fantasies come to life.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
With cravat Zapp Franzality.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
This Summer and Missa Milano is Leslie Minuchian and the
Girl with the Dragonfly tattoo.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
So obviously that movie never came out because it's fictional,
fictional in the sense that it didn't exist. That goes
for the book too. I got in touch with Simon
and Schuster, the book publisher. I was curious, even though
I knew what they would say, and yeah, they've never
heard of Leslie Minuchian or Eric t weiss Esquire.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
I also hit up Alissa Milano's manager. Ditto.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Alissa's manager actually told me after I called and explained
all this to her. Both she and Alyssa gogoled Leslie.
They found something about a restaurant and Alissa Milano was like,
I was supposed to play a chef. So it's all
a fantasy. But the amazing thing about this bizarro world
(08:33):
is just how detailed it is. There's this whole cast
of characters. It's not just Eric, there's ghost writers, agents, publishers.
There's even drama between these people.
Speaker 6 (08:44):
We are having legal problems with James. He is not
satisfied with any of the book and is threatening to
sue Simon and Schuster if they do not present better writing.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Can you believe this jerk?
Speaker 6 (08:56):
He has nothing to do with it besides his name,
and he is the one making threats as your lawyer,
I am starting to make threats also.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Eric has so much going on making things happened for
Leslie that he has his own team around him.
Speaker 6 (09:14):
Hi, Leslie, hope this email finds you well. At the moment,
I am back in Bangkok, still dealing with legal issues.
Charlie rang me last night and things are changing again.
I realized that you were being tossed around and I
wish I could make this process easier on you. As
of now, you are to remain in the UK, and
Alyssa is going to meet you in London for the
(09:36):
entire month of June to get to know you personally.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
I think Charlie is one of his assistants, and sometimes
Eric gets so busy that another assistant, Jackie, takes control
of his Gmail account.
Speaker 7 (09:51):
Good afternoon, missus Minukian, and mister Minukian. I'm writing on
behalf of Eric. He has had to fly out for
an important meeting and had hoped to be back by
this afternoon, but is delayed until tomorrow morning. Thank you
for your patience. Jackie EA for Eric Weiss.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Then Eric even has to come back in and explain
where Jackie is gone.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
Dear Betty and Andy, I am very sorry for not
being in touch sooner. Everything here has been very hectic.
I have been handling legal problems and Jackie is going
to be out for at least three months. She has
had to have a hysterectomy.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
So many specific details a hysteric to me. It's like
a soap opera in Leslie's inbox. This isn't where I
thought this trail would take me, but I'm kind of
into learning about these characters. Leslie even has a ghostwriter
called Scooter.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Scooter came in to see me last night. It was
like old times seeing it at the bar. He really
has a great personality once you get to know him.
After a couple of glass support, he was talking to
all the other people around him.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Scooter was helping to write Leslie's book and movie screen.
He was apparently even in New Zealand with Leslie, but
of course Grig never met him. That's a shame because
Scooter sounded like he was having a good time.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I spoke to Scooter. He is loving and sad. He said,
it is starting to get cold, winter is approaching, but
everyone is so friendly and helpful. He's already made a
couple of friends, and he is shocked that no one
is pretentious or snobby. All classes of people hang out
(11:41):
with each other. He said, there is no elite crowd.
He also said that he has never slept so peaceful,
and it is very quiet around his home. He has
never been so at ease with himself. He sounded so
calm and clear hated. He asked about you and Dad
and says hello.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I keep asking myself are these characters too detailed to
be fake? And I guess that's the purpose of all
these subplots and characters. There's just so much banal detail.
It's hard to imagine someone making it up. If Leslie
was creating all these characters, then in a weird way,
it's almost like she was writing a book. But it's
(12:24):
just a fictional world created in emails.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
So the big question about all of this book and
movie stuff is why as detailed and complex as this
fake world is. I reckon Leslie probably invented it to
serve a few purposes. Firstly, most of these emails, in
some way or another are about money, like here, Eric
is hustling royalty payments for Leslie.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
I have notified Sony that you are to receive income
starting June fifteenth at the amount of thirty five hundred
dollars per month. And I have sent a written threat
to Simon and Schuster that you are to receive two
thousand dollars a month until the book is finished.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
It looks like Eric's emails are a useful way for
Leslie to show people that she's either going to have
some big cash money payments coming in any day now,
or to explain why some money hasn't arrived. And then
these emails afforded on to whoever Leslie owes money to,
and sort of sadly, the main target of a lot
of the smoke and mirrors seems to be Leslie's own parents.
(13:32):
Eric even writes directly to them.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Hi, Andrew and Bettie.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
It has been over two months since our last emails
to one another. I hope that everything is all right.
It has been a long journey for me in Bangkok,
an experience I hope to forget. My stomach is still
groaning from the food, and I have actually lost quite
a bit of wheat.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
That's the big shot lawyer telling his client's parents about
his travel stomach. Aside from the small talk, one of
the main things Eric emails Betty and Andrew about is
royalty money. Royalty money they're expecting from these book and
movie deals. And that's convenient because we know that around
(14:18):
this time they said that they were in deep shit
debt and Leslie owed them money. But when these royalties
don't come in, Eric has to explain.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Leslie has been on my tail about the pre royalty
payments from Simon and Schuster and Sony. I have your
scan of bank details and I am working on this
as fast as possible.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Eric is like a buffer between Leslie and her parents.
If money owed to Leslie's parents is delayed, Eric has
a good reason or he steps in when she's not
covering a bill. Like while Leslie was in New Zealand,
she had a speedboat in storage. Back in America, fees
were racking up and her parents started getting calls about
(15:00):
all the bills.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
So Eric comes to the rescue.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
Thank you for following up with the boat. In Leslie's defense,
I know that they were not and kept up to
date on the situation. We are just not sure who
it was that fetes the info on the storage fees.
But who I beat a dead horse. Let's just get
to the root of the problem and move on.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
As well as explaining money stuff to Biddy and Andrew,
Eric serves a purpose of weirdly vouching for Leslie.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Have a nice night, and I look forward to settling
this matter for you and Andrew. And let's leave Leslie
in New Zealand where no one can hurt her or
her character. She is a great girl who is just
too nice and too trusting. But these are the qualities
that people love most about her.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
I guess if you have a character covering for you
for not paying bills and stuff, why not have them
pump up your rebox and talk you up as a
person too. Wherever in the world there is trouble with Leslie,
Eric swings in with an explanation.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Lake Tahoe, next to Hawaii is one of the the
most corrupt communities I have done research on.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Maybe that takes the heat off Leslie when her parents
hear bits and pieces contradicting her stories and throughout it
all it does look like at least Betty thinks Eric
and his assistants and all the book chat and even
Eric's Bangkok travel gut are real. Here's what Betty wrote
back to Jackie.
Speaker 8 (16:33):
So glad that Eric is okay. If you can say
what he is experiencing is okay, maybe he's the one
who should write a book. Well, hope he gets back soon,
safe and sound. Again. Thanks for all your help and
keeping us up to date.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Betty.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
I feel like every time I read through these emails,
Dad cut and paste it into word docs, I figure
out another piece of the puzzle. The other day, as
I read them again, I started to realize something. A
lot of these emails are directly between Eric and Leslie's
pair parents for ages. I just figured that they had
ended up in this box because Betty must have forwarded
them to Leslie or she was c seed. Dad usually
(17:17):
didn't take screenshots. He just copypasted the text, so there's
often only from and two names and a date. But
now I'm thinking, hang on, it's weird. How many of
these direct emails between Eric and Betty and Andrew we have.
How did my dad see these ones in Leslie's account?
Were they really all forwarded on to Leslie. Sometimes they're
(17:39):
even talking about Leslie and these emails, like here Eric
tells Betty and Andrew he's not going to make it
to the event in New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
I am not.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
Sure I will make it for Leslie's wedding. I have
not told her yet since I do not want to
disappoint her.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Am I missing something?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
So I asked Dad, there's emails that are directly from
Eric to Leslie's parents, and it's like he's not on CC.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
So I don't understand how you have those emails.
Speaker 9 (18:14):
I was also getting emails. I was spying, if you like,
on Eric's emails as well as Leslie's. How did that happen?
Because it's at one stage this is when I started
thinking that Leslie seemed to be using Eric as her
(18:39):
kind of alter ego or something. And I started to
think about that, and then I was thinking, well, if
she is Eric, then maybe I can look at Eric's
emails with her password.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
And I did and it worked. Why didn't you tell
me this when we were talking about the hair? Sure
I told you this.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
He definitely didn't. I think I would remember that when
I went back to New Zealand to start this investigation.
I asked Dad to step me through everything chronologically. We
mustn't have got to that bit. I'm sure, Tod, like
I've been through this whole thing trying to find the
real Eric t Weiss and the dude in Michigan and
(19:27):
all that stuff. How long after you you contacted him
and how long after you started accessing.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Before I twigged.
Speaker 9 (19:39):
I can remember where I was in their basement there
and it was a bit of a breakthrough moment, as
you can imagine. And I still find it odd that
she went to the great lengths as she did if
in fact Eric is her that his emails to her.
(20:00):
He emailed her as well, of course, giving her advice,
and she emailed him telling him how terrible things were
and blah blah blah. And I thought Eric did exist,
and it wasn't. And I still wouldn't write that off.
Even though the password seems to hang about us being
(20:22):
the same.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
So you're saying that the password that you were using
for Leslie's emails is exactly the same password that logs
into the account for Eric t Weiss, which is a
Gmail account. So it's the same password, two different accounts.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Yes, And the fact is, oh my god, I.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Just I can't believe that I've been I've that I
haven't nailed this yet. You know, I've been working on
this thing for eight months and it turns out that
you had access to Eric t Weiss's in box as
well as Leslie's.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Like, don't you think that's crucial? Like, I'm sure, I
told you, I'm sure.
Speaker 9 (21:11):
I am just absolutely like obviously you didn't get it.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Leslie is Eric. I am just like, I don't even
know what to make of this whole thing.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
Now.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
It's crazier than I thought it was, so there it is.
Eric and Leslie had the same email password and.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
The Great Houdini.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
After reading all these emails over and over, wondering about
whether the people in them are real or not, I
kind of feel like I know the gang, Eric Jackie
Scooter Dad says. The emails from Eric's account slowed down.
After a while, Eric and the Gang's story started to
come to an end.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
I am working a long hours trying to get these
contracts back in place. Not to mention, I am getting
tired of the music scene. It is grueling hours. Most
of the bands that I represent are immature punks whose
heads are up their weirs. I found out today that
Jackie has been put on permanent disability and will definitely
(22:27):
not be coming back to work, So Scooter is going
to help me out three days a week.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Jackie the EA's hysterectomy mustn't have gone well. Okay, So
now we know pretty much for certain that this whole
world really is in Leslie's imagination. So if Leslie created
and played the role of Eric and Jackie and Scooter
and probably more I don't even know about, it just
(22:57):
seems so weird the lengths she went to to deceive
her own parents. At the very least, Betty seems totally
convinced that Eric is real and to be. Other people
were convinced by Leslie's world along the way, even Kiwi back.
It feels like Leslie herself might be so far into
(23:17):
this fantasy that she sort of believes in it, or
at least she uses the characters to create an ideal
version of herself and a world that she had liked
to live in.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
Scooter feels that you have what it takes to be
a wonderful writer. He believes you would be great. That's scriptwriting.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
It makes me think, am I trying to understand something
more complicated with Leslie than where I first started. Leslie
doesn't just use fake documents. It looks like Leslie is
prepared to use fake personas. So tracking her down and
working out what's real and what's not could be more
difficult than I thought. But I have to give it
(24:01):
a go. I need to get onto Leslie's home turf.
I need to go to the US. I can only
find out more about what's real by playing an away game.
This is a trip my family has always wondered about.
Speaker 10 (24:16):
Every time there was an earfair to Los Angeles that
was a good price, we'd think, let's get on that
and go and find her.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Before I get on a plane. I want to understand
what they would want as closure. Years ago, I remember
Mum saying she was tempted to want some sort of revenge.
I asked her about that.
Speaker 10 (24:38):
Oh no, I wouldn't say revenge was the word. What
really In the early days, I just thought, you, poor
silly woman, what have you done. No, it was never revenge.
It was to get greer keeled. To be in something
(25:01):
like this, you feel like you've got to have the
last word maybe to see that they haven't destroyed you,
but to let them have a moment of discomfort.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
And while my dad spent years investigating this himself, he
wasn't after revenge either.
Speaker 9 (25:20):
Just answers. I wasn't revengeful or really wanting compensation. If
there was some available, I wouldn't turn it down, of course,
but the prime goal was to figure out what the
heck was going on here.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Dad found out a surprising amount of stuff from my
Auntie's basement in Auckland, but eventually he had to put
it all aside and get a job.
Speaker 9 (25:46):
I had to pull finger and do something. You know,
you had retired, Yeah, I had retired really, so I
had to sort of rejig my life a bit there.
What I would really like is for her to acknowledge
that she's caused a lot of strife, to basically understand
(26:09):
what she's done, and to try and not do things
like this in the future.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
And my brother Greg would like to hear Leslie say sorry.
I wouldn't mind getting an apology, well, not for.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
Me, but for mom and Dad. Yeah, an apology. It'd
be nice.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Before Dad packed up the big box of Leslie docks,
he had one last ditch idea about how to tie
up some loose ends. Dad pitched the story to America's
TV drama magnet and mustache enthusiast Doctor Phil. The letter
he wrote is five pages long and there's a bunch
(26:56):
of attachments. I thought my bro Simon might be interested
in seeing it. Simon, you know how Dad was pretty
obsessed with investigating this whole thing. Did you know he
actually actually wrote a letter to Doctor Phil pitching our story?
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Serious? Have you got any have you got?
Speaker 3 (27:12):
This?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Is it here? It's in comic sans font.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Oh my god, it is and I really like the
top line of it.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
It's is a.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Tale of deception, fraud, narcissism and devastation.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
That's my impression of Dad.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's straight off the bit, like intense.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
It's brilliant. What do you think of my impression of Dad?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I mean, yeah, I know what you're getting. It like
slightly exaggerated, but pretty spot up.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Even though I'm now investigating this story for Australia's national broadcaster,
every time I call Dad, he still brings up getting
our story and Leslie on Doctor Phil.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
You know, Mum was.
Speaker 9 (27:53):
Looking at Doctor Phil the other day and Mum and
I were saying, she needs to get on doctor Phil.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
I don't know why you're obsessed with Doctor Phil. Well, he.
Speaker 9 (28:06):
Gets to the bottom of things.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
I'm getting to the bottom of things.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I know you are.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
I may not be Doctor Phil, but I'm going to
back that up and get answers for my family. It's
time to get on a plane to the United States.
Speaker 9 (28:25):
Forget a kind of forces, for like a job.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
He said to himself.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Sure, Greg isn't coming with me to the US, And
I get that he wants answers and an apology for
what Leslie did to him, but he doesn't want to
wade that far back into this part.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Of his life. All right, touchdown USA. Here. I am
in LA.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Every time I come here, I kind of think about
doing the mission that I'm about to set off on,
going to find Leslie and hear her side of the story.
It's just unreal to actually be doing it this time.
The lead up to the strip has been kind of
nerve wracking. I felt like I needed some support. So
my other brother, Simon is coming for backup. I meet
(29:10):
up with him at the airport.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Oh, there he is. There's my boy.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Here's my bro Simon arriving after what a fifteen hour flight.
It looks pretty fresh. Easy to look fresh when you've
got no hair, though, how are you a man?
Speaker 10 (29:26):
That's horrible?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Layover in Fiji for els is pretty tight.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
Good to see you know you too, bro.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
The plan is to jump in a car and work
our way through the places I think Leslie might have lived.
When I show Simon the car that I've hired, he's
not best pleased that I went for the economy hatchback,
so he insists on an upgrade.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
We've got a muscle car. We've got a twenty nineteen
Dodge Challenger.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Here it looks like a sting ray on wheels.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, I kind of feel like pack of cocks as well.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
Is it part of that part of that going on?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (30:01):
It's definitely.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
People will look at it and kind of go, you're
trying to enhance something here.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Hey, Yeah, it's not the most inconspicuous car to be
driving around. And as we try to sniff out.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Information, the first rule of trying to be a detective
is incognito looks stylish. Our first stop is to cruise
by the house Leslie grew up in. I just want
to understand where she really comes from. We're just going
(30:35):
to like kind of park, maybe even just here, which
is right on the corner.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
We need to kind of figure out which house it is.
So it's just still a drive by. So how would
you describe this area, man, Well, it's.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
A big fear like.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
It's not exactly what you It doesn't scream trust fund.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
This place is exactly how my brother Greg first described it.
It's classic Middle America houses close together, grassy front yards
without fences.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
We pull up across the road, there's a blue and
a red car parked in the driveway.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
So it's the house beside there. Old, it's the one
up there. Okay, My first rule of a stalkout sus
out which house did it?
Speaker 5 (31:16):
So it's the one beside that.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Now we're looking at the right house. It doesn't look
like anyone's home. Leslie had used this address a lot
over the years, Like it's the home with that phone
number given to Kiwi Bank that was supposedly for Eric
t Weiss. Someone in this house apparently took the bank's
call to vouch for Leslie's trust fund. Betty and Andrew
might still live here, but we figure it's too early
(31:41):
to try and talk to them. I need to find
Leslie first. If she had warning I'm out here looking
for her, she could go to ground and I might
never find her. At different times, Leslie's lived all over
the state of California, and what I think was Leslie's
first bar before New Zealand, before Hawaii. Her first business ever,
(32:02):
as far as I can tell, was up the top
of the state, in a place called Taho. That's where
we're going to start knocking on doors. So we head
off on the long drive north. I have to say,
you've made a pretty unusual choice of snacks, bro, I mean, like,
(32:22):
who gets banana chips and beef jerky?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I mean, well, I I wanted to stay away from sugar,
but so I've just gone to I don't know what.
I don't know what you'd call it.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
To tell you then, just beef jerky. It's just it's
like eating avelmet.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Have you tried that?
Speaker 5 (32:37):
It's gross, It's actually edible. It's leather. Give me some,
Give me some chips, don't even Yeah, we have to
stop again.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Sometimes after some bad snacks and a long drive, the
palm trees give way to pine trees as we climb
in altitude and high up in the mountains, we finally
spot like Tahoe. Wow, this is a beautiful spot. I'm
(33:08):
sitting on a bowl at a mountain pass. There's snow
on the ground all around me. Pine trees in the distance,
rolling hills have snow all over them, and out to
my left I can see the shimmering blue of Lake Tahoe.
And we've come here because this is where Leslie owned
(33:29):
her first bar, the Breakwater, which is what the one
in Hawaii was named after.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
And Simon's taking a picture of the lake next to me. Simon,
we're company busting at a selfie. But okay, well, it.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Was twenty years ago that Leslie was here. It's quite
a transient town. There's a lot of sort of tourist operators.
It's seasonal. So in my inquiries so far, I've actually
found it quite hard to speak to anybody that was
here in the early two thousands.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Is there anybody.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
I've been told that the guy who sort of runs
the place that Leslie had her business remembers things, and
I was told that, and so he's still yeah, And
he said through somebody else that he didn't want to
talk because he thought Leslie runs with a pretty dodgy crowd,
and he was a bit scared.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Okay, well, what's he going to be like once we
turn into his doorstare?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Oh, I have to be nice before we start talking
to the locals. Though, I've got some documents I want
to look at walking into the elder Otto court taking
a short cut over some snow. I've searched the court
records online. It seems like there might have been some
drama here as well. And Simon's just pulled up to
(34:42):
pick me up. I've got a couple of papers to
talk them through that I managed.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
To get from in there. Hey man, so what's the boss?
Speaker 4 (34:50):
So there was about eight cases versus the minuchiins that
come up on the online search. But it's important to
note that these didn't end up in a judgment, so
there was some sort of settlement before they went too far.
But these files were put through to the court and
they basically look like Leslie and Andrew because he was
(35:13):
the licensee of the breakwater and Tahoe weren't paying their rent.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
But Andrew, I mean her dad, Dad.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Yeah, there's been at least a couple of times where
they got served a notice and I'll just read it
out to you. Please take notice that you were in
default of payment and rent in the estimated amount of
five hundred and nineteen dollars. This is the kind of
thing that happened in New Zealand and Hawaii, so the
pattern goes back twenty years. The interesting thing is this
(35:41):
time her parents might have been involved in the business.
Their names are on the paperwork as managers and licensees
of the bar. To me, this just says that there
was perhaps not the slickest of management of the breakwater
in Tahoe. And it's reminiscent of The Dragonfly for sure,
(36:02):
sort of having bills not being paid and people chasing them.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, it was exactly the same. People were serving notices
all over the show.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
But these documents can only tell me bits and pieces.
I want to talk to the landlords who were chasing
that rent from Leslie. Her bar was in a marina,
a group of shops and restaurants right on Lake Tahoe.
So we head over to the marina to see who
we can find.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
This is the spot where the breakwater was. There's the
Artemis Cafe here, which is.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Where the breakwater was. I'm looking at it now. It's
kind of got a log cabin feel to it. The
rest of the marina has a boat higher and a
grill that's right out on the water looking out at
the Lake of Tahoe, which is super nice. And it's
a great spot that Leslie had chosen for the first
hospitality business she had, the breakwater. And I'm basically going
(36:54):
to go in there now and just skulk around and
see if I can find anybody who was here twenty
years ago that might be able to tell me anything.
Speaker 6 (37:03):
I remember Nay, they used to have some ragi or
parties out in the front of the plaza there doors,
and he used to be pretty back.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
She did good business from what I understand.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
Right, And by she you mean Leslie, the lady who
owned the Breakwaders.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yes, I think she had a partner, but I can't
remember who it was.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
All these memories and finding are pretty vague. But I
know there's a guy around here who's been running the
marina the whole time. I heard this guy remembers Leslie,
but that he keeps to himself. Also, apparently he's nervous
about stirring anything dodgy out. I reckon I can explain
things if I can just find him.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
I can't even find any pictures online, so I don't
know who I'm looking for.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
There are offices above the shops I'm wandering through. I
see an open door, so I got upstairs.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Hello, We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Just as I give up and go to leave, I
walk right into him in the car park. He didn't
want to be recorded or named, but the conversation I
had with him was pretty interesting. When I found Simon again,
I turned my requorterback on. Alrighty bro, Yeah, So that
guy was happy to confirm for me that he reckoned.
Her parents owned the breakwater that was here, and she
(38:21):
was running it for them, and his words were she
ran it into the ground, she didn't pay rent, and
we had to a victor. So I guess that lines
up with what we found from the court today.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
And lines up pretty hard with a dragonfly too. She's
definitely good at bearing restaurants.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
So Leslie's business in Tahoe ended in a bin fire
like the ones after it in Hawaii and in zed
But could there be a difference to the pattern in Tahoe.
Maybe Leslie's parents were involved here. Leslie's dad, Andrew must
have had a sense about what happened in Tahoe. He
was named on a bunch of those court filings I
(39:01):
found where the marina owner was chasing rent. Both Betty
and Andrew are on the Tahoe breakwater Bars business paperwork
as managers, as well as the liquor license. We've heard
about how people in Hawaii and my family in Enzed
tried to talk to Leslie's parents about what was going on.
So are Lesley's parents just hapless victims and all this
(39:24):
or are they turning a blind eye to what Leslie does?
When Andrew wrote to my parents after the collapse of
The Dragonfly, could he have been alluding to his own experience.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
As far as our empathy for you, it is more
than you realize.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
My next lead is the most recent of found so far.
It's a clue about where Leslie went after she left
New Zealand. It's an online review of yet another restaurant. Somehow,
only four years after The Dragonfly and My Family went bust,
it reads like Leslie was back on her feet.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
Leslie's next restaurant was called Phenomenal.
Speaker 6 (40:06):
The whole Phenomenal concept was extreme, well thought out and executed.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
By owner Leslie Minukian her prior experience of owning and
operating at Burger Bore in Lake tahoo.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
A, California. Yeah, it's called Phenomenal with an f in
a town called Paesser Robels.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Well do she tricked into that?
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (40:25):
Successful?
Speaker 5 (40:26):
I mean made a lot of people unsuccessful, to be fair.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
So we're going to go to Passa Robls and we're
gonna ask Graham and find out what happened with Phenomenal.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
How are this is just insane? She told me, never
fall in love with a Kiwi. They're the worst men.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I have the worst news ever.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Oh shit, she's done it again.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
A private investigator showed up at my door.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
You did that on purpose?
Speaker 5 (40:56):
She loved you? No, not at all. That's next time
on Snowball.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
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free with a Pushkin Plus subscription.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
Find Pushkin Plus on the deep Cover Show page in
Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm slash Plus.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Pushkin Plus subscribers can access ad free episodes, full audio books,
and exclusive binges of other true crime podcasts throughout the year.
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
In this episode, we've used voice actors for Leslie and
her parents, as well as her mysterious lawyer, Eric t
Weiss and his staff.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm sorry that now you'll never really know what was
real or not.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Leslie wrote that in her divorce letter to my brother Greg.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
It's like she was toying with him.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
You'll never really know what was real or not.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Leslie does draw blurry lines between fantasy and reality. She
just probably wouldn't have expected anyone to start reading between
those lines. But that's what I'm doing now, And I've
uncovered what I reckon is the strangest part of this
whole story. I've found something completely bizarre. And all those
(01:11):
emails in the box of Leslie Docks that my dad kept,
they reveal Leslie had a book deal with a big
time publisher.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
To tell the story of her life.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Well, I am going to start on a book next week.
Speaker 6 (01:31):
He believes you would be Greek at scriptwriting.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Oh my head is spinning.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Welcome to Unravel Season four. I'm Ollie Ward's and this
is Snowball. So Leslie was writing an autobiography, like some
(02:04):
kind of memoir of her crazy life. There's heaps of
details about it in her email and who's handling the
ins and outs of Leslie's book deal? Once again, enter
Leslie's lawyer, her old mate, Eric t Weiss.
Speaker 6 (02:20):
As your lawyer.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I am starting to this is the Eric who wrote
a letter to Kiwibank confirming that Leslie had a big
trust fund, and he happens to be the namesake of
the great Harry Houdini. Eric sends emails to Leslie as
he negotiates her book deal.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
If you are willing to sign a contract that they
will be your publisher for ten years, this will allot
you to begin on the other three books we have
talked about, and you will only be on yours and
Simon and Schuster's schedule.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And this is where the extra glitz really starts getting sprinkled.
Eric t Weiss isn't just a financial kind of dude
who deals with trust fund admin. He's apparently a big
shot entertainment lawyer. That's his main job.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
I am an entertainment attorney that has been in the
business for over twenty years and have worked with many
production companies, celebrities and musicians.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
I guess that explains why Eric runs into so many
famous names like in that note, Leslie maid in her
travel diary that she left a n N ZED.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
May three, New York. Eric met George Clooney, Julia Roberts
private jet.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
From Dallas, movie stars and private jets. I'd like to
imagine Eric t Weiss is like a Smami La Shobas
type guy, kind of arrogant like Ari Gold from Entourage,
but shonky like Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad. I imagine
(03:52):
him in a suit with a loud, colorful tie, and
I reckon he's got a combover.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
I have not been in my office during the days
due to the fact that I have been defending a
celebrity case. Right now, it is confidential, so I cannot
say who.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
So why is the liberty lawyer working with Leslie?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Then?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Well, from what I can see in these emails, Eric
claims to be lining Leslie up to be as rich
and famous as the rest of his crowd.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Until you become famous. You are a nobody in this industry,
but you already know that it will be worth it
one day, Leslie, So do not get depressed, continue to
be strong and remember what the end result will bring.
You will be financially secure for life and you'll be
able to buy your dad that hummer.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
You keep talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Eric is really encouraging to Leslie, like he's beyond what
you would expect the lawyer to be, which is good because,
as Leslie explains to her parents, writing a book is hard.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
The whole last ten chapters of the book that was
redone has been denied due to the fact that it
is too similar to a story that was written by
an author about ten years ago. On my head is spinning.
But Eric said that lawyers are constantly finding books that
are too similar and must have avoid a lawsuit. That
(05:16):
is why they are hired as in house attorneys. He said,
it happens all the time, and we must rewrite it
in a different wording.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
So when I read these emails about Leslie getting a
memoir published, I thought, well, that takes things up a notch.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
But that's not even the big picture.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Because that book about the story of Leslie's life was
supposedly going to be made into a movie.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
Sony cannot go forward with the movie until the book
has been released. I have recommended that the film in
Sun Valley, Idaho, which shows the same picturesque setting, is Toho.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
I just can't believe how deep this world goes. So
we've got Eric t Weiss Esquire talking through the details
of a movie about Leslie based on a book by Leslie.
And that's not all. Leslie told her parents that for
the big screen version, a big name was lined up
(06:18):
to play her.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
The movie script has been accepted. In Flying Colors, Alissa
Milano has signed on.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Pretty good casting. Remember Alyssa Milano from Charmed or as
the daughter Nie goes on a rampage FOURG commando. She
is long dark here like Leslie's good choice.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Alissa Milano will be an Enza in November. She's going
to hang out with me for a week or two
to know my personality. Study it, so I'll have to
be on vacation from Greg and his family at that time.
I hope we have a house by then so I
do not have to sneak around his family. Eric said
(07:06):
that I will be getting paid starting July.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Sounds like some real method acting from Melissa Milano taking
on the role of Leslie. Ever since I read these emails,
I can't stop wondering what a movie about Leslie would
be like.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
In a world where one woman's fantasies come to life.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
With cravat Zapp Franzality.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
This Summer and Missa Milano is Leslie Minuchian and the
Girl with the Dragonfly tattoo.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
So obviously that movie never came out because it's fictional,
fictional in the sense that it didn't exist. That goes
for the book too. I got in touch with Simon
and Schuster, the book publisher. I was curious, even though
I knew what they would say, and yeah, they've never
heard of Leslie Minuchian or Eric t weiss Esquire.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
I also hit up Alissa Milano's manager. Ditto.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Alissa's manager actually told me after I called and explained
all this to her. Both she and Alyssa gogoled Leslie.
They found something about a restaurant and Alissa Milano was like,
I was supposed to play a chef. So it's all
a fantasy. But the amazing thing about this bizarro world
(08:33):
is just how detailed it is. There's this whole cast
of characters. It's not just Eric, there's ghost writers, agents, publishers.
There's even drama between these people.
Speaker 6 (08:44):
We are having legal problems with James. He is not
satisfied with any of the book and is threatening to
sue Simon and Schuster if they do not present better writing.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
Can you believe this jerk?
Speaker 6 (08:56):
He has nothing to do with it besides his name,
and he is the one making threats as your lawyer,
I am starting to make threats also.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Eric has so much going on making things happened for
Leslie that he has his own team around him.
Speaker 6 (09:14):
Hi, Leslie, hope this email finds you well. At the moment,
I am back in Bangkok, still dealing with legal issues.
Charlie rang me last night and things are changing again.
I realized that you were being tossed around and I
wish I could make this process easier on you. As
of now, you are to remain in the UK, and
Alyssa is going to meet you in London for the
(09:36):
entire month of June to get to know you personally.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
I think Charlie is one of his assistants, and sometimes
Eric gets so busy that another assistant, Jackie, takes control
of his Gmail account.
Speaker 7 (09:51):
Good afternoon, missus Minukian, and mister Minukian. I'm writing on
behalf of Eric. He has had to fly out for
an important meeting and had hoped to be back by
this afternoon, but is delayed until tomorrow morning. Thank you
for your patience. Jackie EA for Eric Weiss.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Then Eric even has to come back in and explain
where Jackie is gone.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
Dear Betty and Andy, I am very sorry for not
being in touch sooner. Everything here has been very hectic.
I have been handling legal problems and Jackie is going
to be out for at least three months. She has
had to have a hysterectomy.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
So many specific details a hysteric to me. It's like
a soap opera in Leslie's inbox. This isn't where I
thought this trail would take me, but I'm kind of
into learning about these characters. Leslie even has a ghostwriter
called Scooter.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Scooter came in to see me last night. It was
like old times seeing it at the bar. He really
has a great personality once you get to know him.
After a couple of glass support, he was talking to
all the other people around him.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Scooter was helping to write Leslie's book and movie screen.
He was apparently even in New Zealand with Leslie, but
of course Grig never met him. That's a shame because
Scooter sounded like he was having a good time.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I spoke to Scooter. He is loving and sad. He said,
it is starting to get cold, winter is approaching, but
everyone is so friendly and helpful. He's already made a
couple of friends, and he is shocked that no one
is pretentious or snobby. All classes of people hang out
(11:41):
with each other. He said, there is no elite crowd.
He also said that he has never slept so peaceful,
and it is very quiet around his home. He has
never been so at ease with himself. He sounded so
calm and clear hated. He asked about you and Dad
and says hello.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I keep asking myself are these characters too detailed to
be fake? And I guess that's the purpose of all
these subplots and characters. There's just so much banal detail.
It's hard to imagine someone making it up. If Leslie
was creating all these characters, then in a weird way,
it's almost like she was writing a book. But it's
(12:24):
just a fictional world created in emails.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
So the big question about all of this book and
movie stuff is why as detailed and complex as this
fake world is. I reckon Leslie probably invented it to
serve a few purposes. Firstly, most of these emails, in
some way or another are about money, like here, Eric
is hustling royalty payments for Leslie.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
I have notified Sony that you are to receive income
starting June fifteenth at the amount of thirty five hundred
dollars per month. And I have sent a written threat
to Simon and Schuster that you are to receive two
thousand dollars a month until the book is finished.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
It looks like Eric's emails are a useful way for
Leslie to show people that she's either going to have
some big cash money payments coming in any day now,
or to explain why some money hasn't arrived. And then
these emails afforded on to whoever Leslie owes money to,
and sort of sadly, the main target of a lot
of the smoke and mirrors seems to be Leslie's own parents.
(13:32):
Eric even writes directly to them.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Hi, Andrew and Bettie.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
It has been over two months since our last emails
to one another. I hope that everything is all right.
It has been a long journey for me in Bangkok,
an experience I hope to forget. My stomach is still
groaning from the food, and I have actually lost quite
a bit of wheat.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
That's the big shot lawyer telling his client's parents about
his travel stomach. Aside from the small talk, one of
the main things Eric emails Betty and Andrew about is
royalty money. Royalty money they're expecting from these book and
movie deals. And that's convenient because we know that around
(14:18):
this time they said that they were in deep shit
debt and Leslie owed them money. But when these royalties
don't come in, Eric has to explain.
Speaker 6 (14:28):
Leslie has been on my tail about the pre royalty
payments from Simon and Schuster and Sony. I have your
scan of bank details and I am working on this
as fast as possible.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Eric is like a buffer between Leslie and her parents.
If money owed to Leslie's parents is delayed, Eric has
a good reason or he steps in when she's not
covering a bill. Like while Leslie was in New Zealand,
she had a speedboat in storage. Back in America, fees
were racking up and her parents started getting calls about
(15:00):
all the bills.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
So Eric comes to the rescue.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
Thank you for following up with the boat. In Leslie's defense,
I know that they were not and kept up to
date on the situation. We are just not sure who
it was that fetes the info on the storage fees.
But who I beat a dead horse. Let's just get
to the root of the problem and move on.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
As well as explaining money stuff to Biddy and Andrew,
Eric serves a purpose of weirdly vouching for Leslie.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Have a nice night, and I look forward to settling
this matter for you and Andrew. And let's leave Leslie
in New Zealand where no one can hurt her or
her character. She is a great girl who is just
too nice and too trusting. But these are the qualities
that people love most about her.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
I guess if you have a character covering for you
for not paying bills and stuff, why not have them
pump up your rebox and talk you up as a
person too. Wherever in the world there is trouble with Leslie,
Eric swings in with an explanation.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Lake Tahoe, next to Hawaii is one of the the
most corrupt communities I have done research on.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Maybe that takes the heat off Leslie when her parents
hear bits and pieces contradicting her stories and throughout it
all it does look like at least Betty thinks Eric
and his assistants and all the book chat and even
Eric's Bangkok travel gut are real. Here's what Betty wrote
back to Jackie.
Speaker 8 (16:33):
So glad that Eric is okay. If you can say
what he is experiencing is okay, maybe he's the one
who should write a book. Well, hope he gets back soon,
safe and sound. Again. Thanks for all your help and
keeping us up to date.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Betty.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
I feel like every time I read through these emails,
Dad cut and paste it into word docs, I figure
out another piece of the puzzle. The other day, as
I read them again, I started to realize something. A
lot of these emails are directly between Eric and Leslie's
pair parents for ages. I just figured that they had
ended up in this box because Betty must have forwarded
them to Leslie or she was c seed. Dad usually
(17:17):
didn't take screenshots. He just copypasted the text, so there's
often only from and two names and a date. But
now I'm thinking, hang on, it's weird. How many of
these direct emails between Eric and Betty and Andrew we have.
How did my dad see these ones in Leslie's account?
Were they really all forwarded on to Leslie. Sometimes they're
(17:39):
even talking about Leslie and these emails, like here Eric
tells Betty and Andrew he's not going to make it
to the event in New Zealand.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
I am not.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
Sure I will make it for Leslie's wedding. I have
not told her yet since I do not want to
disappoint her.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Am I missing something?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
So I asked Dad, there's emails that are directly from
Eric to Leslie's parents, and it's like he's not on CC.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
So I don't understand how you have those emails.
Speaker 9 (18:14):
I was also getting emails. I was spying, if you like,
on Eric's emails as well as Leslie's. How did that happen?
Because it's at one stage this is when I started
thinking that Leslie seemed to be using Eric as her
(18:39):
kind of alter ego or something. And I started to
think about that, and then I was thinking, well, if
she is Eric, then maybe I can look at Eric's
emails with her password.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
And I did and it worked. Why didn't you tell
me this when we were talking about the hair? Sure
I told you this.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
He definitely didn't. I think I would remember that when
I went back to New Zealand to start this investigation.
I asked Dad to step me through everything chronologically. We
mustn't have got to that bit. I'm sure, Tod, like
I've been through this whole thing trying to find the
real Eric t Weiss and the dude in Michigan and
(19:27):
all that stuff. How long after you you contacted him
and how long after you started accessing.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Before I twigged.
Speaker 9 (19:39):
I can remember where I was in their basement there
and it was a bit of a breakthrough moment, as
you can imagine. And I still find it odd that
she went to the great lengths as she did if
in fact Eric is her that his emails to her.
(20:00):
He emailed her as well, of course, giving her advice,
and she emailed him telling him how terrible things were
and blah blah blah. And I thought Eric did exist,
and it wasn't. And I still wouldn't write that off.
Even though the password seems to hang about us being
(20:22):
the same.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
So you're saying that the password that you were using
for Leslie's emails is exactly the same password that logs
into the account for Eric t Weiss, which is a
Gmail account. So it's the same password, two different accounts.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Yes, And the fact is, oh my god, I.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Just I can't believe that I've been I've that I
haven't nailed this yet. You know, I've been working on
this thing for eight months and it turns out that
you had access to Eric t Weiss's in box as
well as Leslie's.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Like, don't you think that's crucial? Like, I'm sure, I
told you, I'm sure.
Speaker 9 (21:11):
I am just absolutely like obviously you didn't get it.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Leslie is Eric. I am just like, I don't even
know what to make of this whole thing.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
Now.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
It's crazier than I thought it was, so there it is.
Eric and Leslie had the same email password and.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
The Great Houdini.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
After reading all these emails over and over, wondering about
whether the people in them are real or not, I
kind of feel like I know the gang, Eric Jackie
Scooter Dad says. The emails from Eric's account slowed down.
After a while, Eric and the Gang's story started to
come to an end.
Speaker 6 (22:05):
I am working a long hours trying to get these
contracts back in place. Not to mention, I am getting
tired of the music scene. It is grueling hours. Most
of the bands that I represent are immature punks whose
heads are up their weirs. I found out today that
Jackie has been put on permanent disability and will definitely
(22:27):
not be coming back to work, So Scooter is going
to help me out three days a week.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Jackie the EA's hysterectomy mustn't have gone well. Okay, So
now we know pretty much for certain that this whole
world really is in Leslie's imagination. So if Leslie created
and played the role of Eric and Jackie and Scooter
and probably more I don't even know about, it just
(22:57):
seems so weird the lengths she went to to deceive
her own parents. At the very least, Betty seems totally
convinced that Eric is real and to be. Other people
were convinced by Leslie's world along the way, even Kiwi back.
It feels like Leslie herself might be so far into
(23:17):
this fantasy that she sort of believes in it, or
at least she uses the characters to create an ideal
version of herself and a world that she had liked
to live in.
Speaker 6 (23:29):
Scooter feels that you have what it takes to be
a wonderful writer. He believes you would be great. That's scriptwriting.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
It makes me think, am I trying to understand something
more complicated with Leslie than where I first started. Leslie
doesn't just use fake documents. It looks like Leslie is
prepared to use fake personas. So tracking her down and
working out what's real and what's not could be more
difficult than I thought. But I have to give it
(24:01):
a go. I need to get onto Leslie's home turf.
I need to go to the US. I can only
find out more about what's real by playing an away game.
This is a trip my family has always wondered about.
Speaker 10 (24:16):
Every time there was an earfair to Los Angeles that
was a good price, we'd think, let's get on that
and go and find her.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Before I get on a plane. I want to understand
what they would want as closure. Years ago, I remember
Mum saying she was tempted to want some sort of revenge.
I asked her about that.
Speaker 10 (24:38):
Oh no, I wouldn't say revenge was the word. What
really In the early days, I just thought, you, poor
silly woman, what have you done. No, it was never revenge.
It was to get greer keeled. To be in something
(25:01):
like this, you feel like you've got to have the
last word maybe to see that they haven't destroyed you,
but to let them have a moment of discomfort.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
And while my dad spent years investigating this himself, he
wasn't after revenge either.
Speaker 9 (25:20):
Just answers. I wasn't revengeful or really wanting compensation. If
there was some available, I wouldn't turn it down, of course,
but the prime goal was to figure out what the
heck was going on here.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Dad found out a surprising amount of stuff from my
Auntie's basement in Auckland, but eventually he had to put
it all aside and get a job.
Speaker 9 (25:46):
I had to pull finger and do something. You know,
you had retired, Yeah, I had retired really, so I
had to sort of rejig my life a bit there.
What I would really like is for her to acknowledge
that she's caused a lot of strife, to basically understand
(26:09):
what she's done, and to try and not do things
like this in the future.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
And my brother Greg would like to hear Leslie say sorry.
I wouldn't mind getting an apology, well, not for.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
Me, but for mom and Dad. Yeah, an apology. It'd
be nice.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Before Dad packed up the big box of Leslie docks,
he had one last ditch idea about how to tie
up some loose ends. Dad pitched the story to America's
TV drama magnet and mustache enthusiast Doctor Phil. The letter
he wrote is five pages long and there's a bunch
(26:56):
of attachments. I thought my bro Simon might be interested
in seeing it. Simon, you know how Dad was pretty
obsessed with investigating this whole thing. Did you know he
actually actually wrote a letter to Doctor Phil pitching our story?
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Serious? Have you got any have you got?
Speaker 3 (27:12):
This?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Is it here? It's in comic sans font.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Oh my god, it is and I really like the
top line of it.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
It's is a.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Tale of deception, fraud, narcissism and devastation.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
That's my impression of Dad.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's straight off the bit, like intense.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
It's brilliant. What do you think of my impression of Dad?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I mean, yeah, I know what you're getting. It like
slightly exaggerated, but pretty spot up.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Even though I'm now investigating this story for Australia's national broadcaster,
every time I call Dad, he still brings up getting
our story and Leslie on Doctor Phil.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
You know, Mum was.
Speaker 9 (27:53):
Looking at Doctor Phil the other day and Mum and
I were saying, she needs to get on doctor Phil.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
I don't know why you're obsessed with Doctor Phil. Well, he.
Speaker 9 (28:06):
Gets to the bottom of things.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
I'm getting to the bottom of things.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I know you are.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
I may not be Doctor Phil, but I'm going to
back that up and get answers for my family. It's
time to get on a plane to the United States.
Speaker 9 (28:25):
Forget a kind of forces, for like a job.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
He said to himself.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Sure, Greg isn't coming with me to the US, And
I get that he wants answers and an apology for
what Leslie did to him, but he doesn't want to
wade that far back into this part.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
Of his life. All right, touchdown USA. Here. I am
in LA.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Every time I come here, I kind of think about
doing the mission that I'm about to set off on,
going to find Leslie and hear her side of the story.
It's just unreal to actually be doing it this time.
The lead up to the strip has been kind of
nerve wracking. I felt like I needed some support. So
my other brother, Simon is coming for backup. I meet
(29:10):
up with him at the airport.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Oh, there he is. There's my boy.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Here's my bro Simon arriving after what a fifteen hour flight.
It looks pretty fresh. Easy to look fresh when you've
got no hair, though, how are you a man?
Speaker 10 (29:26):
That's horrible?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Layover in Fiji for els is pretty tight.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
Good to see you know you too, bro.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
The plan is to jump in a car and work
our way through the places I think Leslie might have lived.
When I show Simon the car that I've hired, he's
not best pleased that I went for the economy hatchback,
so he insists on an upgrade.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
We've got a muscle car. We've got a twenty nineteen
Dodge Challenger.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Here it looks like a sting ray on wheels.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, I kind of feel like pack of cocks as well.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
Is it part of that part of that going on?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (30:01):
It's definitely.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
People will look at it and kind of go, you're
trying to enhance something here.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Hey, Yeah, it's not the most inconspicuous car to be
driving around. And as we try to sniff out.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Information, the first rule of trying to be a detective
is incognito looks stylish. Our first stop is to cruise
by the house Leslie grew up in. I just want
to understand where she really comes from. We're just going
(30:35):
to like kind of park, maybe even just here, which
is right on the corner.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
We need to kind of figure out which house it is.
So it's just still a drive by. So how would
you describe this area, man, Well, it's.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
A big fear like.
Speaker 5 (30:49):
It's not exactly what you It doesn't scream trust fund.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
This place is exactly how my brother Greg first described it.
It's classic Middle America houses close together, grassy front yards
without fences.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
We pull up across the road, there's a blue and
a red car parked in the driveway.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
So it's the house beside there. Old, it's the one
up there. Okay, My first rule of a stalkout sus
out which house did it?
Speaker 5 (31:16):
So it's the one beside that.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Now we're looking at the right house. It doesn't look
like anyone's home. Leslie had used this address a lot
over the years, Like it's the home with that phone
number given to Kiwi Bank that was supposedly for Eric
t Weiss. Someone in this house apparently took the bank's
call to vouch for Leslie's trust fund. Betty and Andrew
might still live here, but we figure it's too early
(31:41):
to try and talk to them. I need to find
Leslie first. If she had warning I'm out here looking
for her, she could go to ground and I might
never find her. At different times, Leslie's lived all over
the state of California, and what I think was Leslie's
first bar before New Zealand, before Hawaii. Her first business ever,
(32:02):
as far as I can tell, was up the top
of the state, in a place called Taho. That's where
we're going to start knocking on doors. So we head
off on the long drive north. I have to say,
you've made a pretty unusual choice of snacks, bro, I mean, like,
(32:22):
who gets banana chips and beef jerky?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I mean, well, I I wanted to stay away from sugar,
but so I've just gone to I don't know what.
I don't know what you'd call it.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
To tell you then, just beef jerky. It's just it's
like eating avelmet.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Have you tried that?
Speaker 5 (32:37):
It's gross, It's actually edible. It's leather. Give me some,
Give me some chips, don't even Yeah, we have to
stop again.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Sometimes after some bad snacks and a long drive, the
palm trees give way to pine trees as we climb
in altitude and high up in the mountains, we finally
spot like Tahoe. Wow, this is a beautiful spot. I'm
(33:08):
sitting on a bowl at a mountain pass. There's snow
on the ground all around me. Pine trees in the distance,
rolling hills have snow all over them, and out to
my left I can see the shimmering blue of Lake Tahoe.
And we've come here because this is where Leslie owned
(33:29):
her first bar, the Breakwater, which is what the one
in Hawaii was named after.
Speaker 5 (33:34):
And Simon's taking a picture of the lake next to me. Simon,
we're company busting at a selfie. But okay, well, it.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Was twenty years ago that Leslie was here. It's quite
a transient town. There's a lot of sort of tourist operators.
It's seasonal. So in my inquiries so far, I've actually
found it quite hard to speak to anybody that was
here in the early two thousands.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Is there anybody.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
I've been told that the guy who sort of runs
the place that Leslie had her business remembers things, and
I was told that, and so he's still yeah, And
he said through somebody else that he didn't want to
talk because he thought Leslie runs with a pretty dodgy crowd,
and he was a bit scared.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Okay, well, what's he going to be like once we
turn into his doorstare?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Oh, I have to be nice before we start talking
to the locals. Though, I've got some documents I want
to look at walking into the elder Otto court taking
a short cut over some snow. I've searched the court
records online. It seems like there might have been some
drama here as well. And Simon's just pulled up to
(34:42):
pick me up. I've got a couple of papers to
talk them through that I managed.
Speaker 5 (34:46):
To get from in there. Hey man, so what's the boss?
Speaker 4 (34:50):
So there was about eight cases versus the minuchiins that
come up on the online search. But it's important to
note that these didn't end up in a judgment, so
there was some sort of settlement before they went too far.
But these files were put through to the court and
they basically look like Leslie and Andrew because he was
(35:13):
the licensee of the breakwater and Tahoe weren't paying their rent.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
But Andrew, I mean her dad, Dad.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Yeah, there's been at least a couple of times where
they got served a notice and I'll just read it
out to you. Please take notice that you were in
default of payment and rent in the estimated amount of
five hundred and nineteen dollars. This is the kind of
thing that happened in New Zealand and Hawaii, so the
pattern goes back twenty years. The interesting thing is this
(35:41):
time her parents might have been involved in the business.
Their names are on the paperwork as managers and licensees
of the bar. To me, this just says that there
was perhaps not the slickest of management of the breakwater
in Tahoe. And it's reminiscent of The Dragonfly for sure,
(36:02):
sort of having bills not being paid and people chasing them.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, it was exactly the same. People were serving notices
all over the show.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
But these documents can only tell me bits and pieces.
I want to talk to the landlords who were chasing
that rent from Leslie. Her bar was in a marina,
a group of shops and restaurants right on Lake Tahoe.
So we head over to the marina to see who
we can find.
Speaker 5 (36:27):
This is the spot where the breakwater was. There's the
Artemis Cafe here, which is.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Where the breakwater was. I'm looking at it now. It's
kind of got a log cabin feel to it. The
rest of the marina has a boat higher and a
grill that's right out on the water looking out at
the Lake of Tahoe, which is super nice. And it's
a great spot that Leslie had chosen for the first
hospitality business she had, the breakwater. And I'm basically going
(36:54):
to go in there now and just skulk around and
see if I can find anybody who was here twenty
years ago that might be able to tell me anything.
Speaker 6 (37:03):
I remember Nay, they used to have some ragi or
parties out in the front of the plaza there doors,
and he used to be pretty back.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
She did good business from what I understand.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
Right, And by she you mean Leslie, the lady who
owned the Breakwaders.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yes, I think she had a partner, but I can't
remember who it was.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
All these memories and finding are pretty vague. But I
know there's a guy around here who's been running the
marina the whole time. I heard this guy remembers Leslie,
but that he keeps to himself. Also, apparently he's nervous
about stirring anything dodgy out. I reckon I can explain
things if I can just find him.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
I can't even find any pictures online, so I don't
know who I'm looking for.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
There are offices above the shops I'm wandering through. I
see an open door, so I got upstairs.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Hello, We'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Just as I give up and go to leave, I
walk right into him in the car park. He didn't
want to be recorded or named, but the conversation I
had with him was pretty interesting. When I found Simon again,
I turned my requorterback on. Alrighty bro, Yeah, So that
guy was happy to confirm for me that he reckoned.
Her parents owned the breakwater that was here, and she
(38:21):
was running it for them, and his words were she
ran it into the ground, she didn't pay rent, and
we had to a victor. So I guess that lines
up with what we found from the court today.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
And lines up pretty hard with a dragonfly too. She's
definitely good at bearing restaurants.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
So Leslie's business in Tahoe ended in a bin fire
like the ones after it in Hawaii and in zed
But could there be a difference to the pattern in Tahoe.
Maybe Leslie's parents were involved here. Leslie's dad, Andrew must
have had a sense about what happened in Tahoe. He
was named on a bunch of those court filings I
(39:01):
found where the marina owner was chasing rent. Both Betty
and Andrew are on the Tahoe breakwater Bars business paperwork
as managers, as well as the liquor license. We've heard
about how people in Hawaii and my family in Enzed
tried to talk to Leslie's parents about what was going on.
So are Lesley's parents just hapless victims and all this
(39:24):
or are they turning a blind eye to what Leslie does?
When Andrew wrote to my parents after the collapse of
The Dragonfly, could he have been alluding to his own experience.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
As far as our empathy for you, it is more
than you realize.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
My next lead is the most recent of found so far.
It's a clue about where Leslie went after she left
New Zealand. It's an online review of yet another restaurant. Somehow,
only four years after The Dragonfly and My Family went bust,
it reads like Leslie was back on her feet.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
Leslie's next restaurant was called Phenomenal.
Speaker 6 (40:06):
The whole Phenomenal concept was extreme, well thought out and executed.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
By owner Leslie Minukian her prior experience of owning and
operating at Burger Bore in Lake tahoo.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
A, California. Yeah, it's called Phenomenal with an f in
a town called Paesser Robels.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Well do she tricked into that?
Speaker 5 (40:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (40:25):
Successful?
Speaker 5 (40:26):
I mean made a lot of people unsuccessful, to be fair.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
So we're going to go to Passa Robls and we're
gonna ask Graham and find out what happened with Phenomenal.
Speaker 5 (40:39):
How are this is just insane? She told me, never
fall in love with a Kiwi. They're the worst men.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I have the worst news ever.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Oh shit, she's done it again.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
A private investigator showed up at my door.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
You did that on purpose?
Speaker 5 (40:56):
She loved you? No, not at all. That's next time
on Snowball.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
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Speaker 6 (41:16):
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Host
Jake Halpern
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