May 31, 2021 • 34 mins
While we take a break this week, we're bringing you something special. Marlo and Phil spent the past year interviewing other couples about what makes their marriages work. Recently, they moved behind the microphone when Jo Piazza invited them to share their love story on the Committed podcast. They started at the very beginning, on the set of Phil's show, and talked about how they grew together over the next four decades. Jo's Committed interviews are an incredible glimpse inside what it takes to make a marriage work. Sometimes they're heartbreaking, sometimes hilarious, but always relatable. Jo finds couples who have gone through some of the most difficult challenges life can throw at you and still want to wake up together the next day. Her show will help you look at marriage and commitment in an entirely new way. You can hear more Committed episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Pushing Hey, double date listeners, Marlow Thomas, here, we have
something special for you today. Phil and I have spent
the pasture interviewing other couples about what makes their marriage work. Well,
we recently had the microphone turned on us. Joe Piazza
of the Committed podcast had us on to tell our
(00:37):
own love story, and we wanted to share that episode
with you. We started at the very beginning on the
set of Phil's show and talked about how we grew
together over the next four decades. Joe's Committed interviews are
an incredible glimpse inside what it takes to make a
marriage work. Sometimes they're heartbreaking, sometimes hilarious, but always relatable.
(01:01):
Joe finds couples who've gone through some of the most
difficult challenges life can throw at you and still want
to wake up together the next day. Her show will
help you look at marriage and commitment in an entirely
new way. So okay, here's the episode. Committed is a
production of iHeartRadio. Marlow Thomas is back. It's been a
(01:27):
couple of years since she last visited with us. You
are so thin, am I thinner than I think last time?
You've never been fat no, no, I eat a lot
of food to try to gain weight. Excellent. You want
me to move out, I'm in the way. Excuse me,
I'm upstaging you. Doctor. Just love the Smooth Show. A
clip right there is the moment that Phil Donnie Hue
fell in love with marlow Thomas. That moment right on
(01:50):
his show in nineteen seventy seven on a sound stage
in Chicago. I'm sorry that we are out of time.
You are really fascinating now. You are wonderful, I said
when we were off there. And I want to say
you are loving and generous, and you like women and
it's a pleasure. And whoever is the woman in your
life is very lucky. How many of us have a
(02:10):
video of the moment that we first fell in love.
Actually have a picture of me on a plane right
when I first saw Nick right that moment, which is
pretty special. I love this video. Their chemistry is insane
and undeniable. Phil is a little stumbly and so obviously smitten.
Marlowe is just so composed and insanely beautiful. You could
watch this clip and not know anything about what happens
(02:33):
next and still knowing your soul that these two people
end up together for the next forty years. So I
wasn't prepared because I had never seen his show because
it wasn't in La So when he walked into the
green room with those killer blue eyes and that great
white hair, and he shook my hand and I thought, Wow,
what a good looking man. And then we got out
(02:54):
in the studio and he was so confident and just
to watch him work the audience, and I was very
attracted to him. I mean, we had a chemical reaction
to each other right right there. You could see it.
I mean, it's embarrassing to look at that show because
you can really see it. And I think the most
important thing is really in a marriage is that it
(03:17):
starts off like that and that gets rekindled all the time,
so that there is that sort of not just sexual
but also attachment. There's a magnet between you that's you
don't have with anybody else. It certainly was true with
me and Marlowe. People just they do have that reaction
(03:41):
to each other, not always but often. And I think
when you start off that way, it's so exciting and
well it's risky. Yeah, it's true. You know, half half
of us get divorced, half of us, so you know,
you and me babe forever. Yeah, that's that's a musical,
(04:03):
kind of lyrical ideas. It doesn't consist with reality. And
that's why making a marriage last can be such a
challenging thing. It's just isn't easy. Marriage isn't just a struggle.
It's a struggle every now and then. But again it's
(04:24):
it's braided, you know, you braid it with love and
joy and struggle and sadness and happiness and fun and humor,
and then another sad thing happens. That's life. It's going
to happen whether you're with this person or not. It's
just whether this person is the one that is worth
going through life with and allowing each other to be
(04:47):
as vulnerable as you want to be. There is no
such thing as a marriage that is smooth sailing from
beginning to end. No, it just doesn't happen. You know,
that's pretty obvious to all of us older folks, right,
But I don't know if it's totally something that young
people are aware of. Joe Pianza and this is committed.
(05:41):
Welcome to Season six Guys Last Month. After more than
forty years of marriage, Bill Donna Hue and Marlo Thomas
launched a podcast together, a podcast about long term love.
It's a show that a lot of our listeners are
going to be very very into. It's called Double Date,
and on it they interview longtime celebrity couples to find
out what really makes a marriage work. We wanted to
(06:05):
know what makes a marriage last. So in order to
find out what makes the marriage last, you've got to
have people who've had some experience being married and who'd
been through things. You know, somebody had been unfaithful. Kia
Cedric and Kevin Bacon lost all their money to Bernie Madoff.
Imagine that Michael J. Fox found out he had a
lifelong diagnosis of Parkinson's Three years into their marriage. Jamie
(06:30):
Lee Curtis was addicted to pharmaceutical drugs and her husband
didn't even know it. I mean, people went through these
terrible things, but they knew that they loved each other
and they were going to help them through it without blame,
without you know, anger, but to get to the other side.
(06:52):
And somebody, and I said, I think it was Tracy
Pollin's married to Michael J. Fox. She said, when you
have a long marriage, you get through something hard and
there's kind of a relief in it. You think, well, wow,
we got through that, we'll get through the next thing.
So I love their podcast. What I needed to know
(07:13):
was more about Phil and Marlow. I wanted to know
how they made a marriage work for forty years, what
makes them tick, how they made it, how they blended
a family together of Phil's four boys, and how they
made long distance love work between Chicago and Los Angeles.
So I took us back to that very first moment
on phil stage. It's nineteen seventy seven. Marlow's sitting next
(07:35):
to Phil. She was on a nationwide tour promoting one
of her many projects, and Phil is saying mostly all
the right things, except for that line about how she
looks so thin. I don't know if anyone would be
able to say that today, But when he says it,
he's just gazing adoringly at her. Well, you know, I
was certainly attracted to her. I mean, if you're Catholic,
(07:59):
you'll understand that she was an impure thought. And I
did call you, yeah, and I said I knew you
were on a tour, and I said, what is your
next city? Right? And you said it's is Denver? And you,
and you said is I said, it is Denver, very
(08:20):
far from Chicago, and he goes, oh, no, it's not
far at all. So he came for dinner, and yeah,
I flew to Denver and we had dinner, and yeah,
pretty much fell in love. Yeah, that was the beginning
of it. And I'd love to hear Phil try to
get through this without being too mushy. By the way,
(08:43):
I think I had a cold, did I not? From
you did? Because you we walked in the rain and
you took your coat off and then you lost your
voice and I did. This was a huge deal. Bill Donnie,
who had the biggest talk show in America at the time.
He needed to talk who was this woman? Who was
this woman at Stollfel's voice? He had no voice, and
(09:03):
his producer was thinking, who is this woman that gets filter?
Leave Chicago? Gettical as a show, but it was it
was a We were certainly smitten at first sight. Phil
was I guess forty when I met you, and I
was thirty eight when I met you. We were already
grown people who'd had careers and other relationships, and and
(09:29):
you had children. I did not have a marriage, but
he'd had a marriage and children. But we'd had other
lives and we come to each other with a lot
of experience that should be appreciated. In our differences are accomplishments.
Phil was always the first person to tell me how
proud he was of what I was accomplishing or what
(09:50):
I had already accomplished. I mean, that's a great that's
a great gift that your partner gives you that kind
of cheerleading. Boy, that's very big, I think in a marriage. Yeah,
as a parent, I wish I had learned that much earlier. Yeah,
the biggest challenge early years was geography. Phil's entire life
(10:12):
was in Chicago and Marlowe's entire life was in Los Angeles.
It was a time in my career where I was
making a television movie after television movie. I produced and
starred in about twelve films all in a row, and
Free to Be was one of the projects at that time.
(10:32):
It happened one Christmas. I mean, there were so many
of them, and Phil was doing a show every day
at nine am, live in Chicago, and four boys, raising
four boys. So I mean the traveling was just crazy
and upsetting, and we'd always have an argument on Sunday night,
one of us would be going back home. And it
(10:53):
took us a while to realize that the reason we
fought on Sunday nights is that we were unhappy that
we were leaving each other. I think geography was the
biggest problem. And we broke up for three months, obviously
before we were married, and said this too much. FEEL said,
I've got these kids, I've got to get them through
high school. I've got my show. And I said, I,
(11:15):
you know, I can't come every weekend. I've got responsibilities,
I've got music scoring, I've script to write. You know,
I just can't do so it was just impossible. So
we broke up. And after we broke up, I went
back to an old boyfriend, and I think he went
back to an old girlfriend or some new girlfriends whatever
for about three months. And after the three months, we
(11:36):
both realize that we needed each other. I often say
to people when they're concerned about whether or not they
want to get married to a certain person, I say,
you know, separate for a couple of months. It really
gives you a good perspective, It really does. I would
be out to dinner with another man and I'd be thinking,
you know Phil would love this or that with that,
(11:57):
I would be He was on my mind all the time.
Marlowe never wanted to be married. In fact, when she
was starring in and producing the sitcom That Girl, a
show about a single woman living on her own, the
network producers wanted to end the series with a wedding,
Marla refused. She didn't even want to get married on TV.
She did not want to give the impression that the
(12:18):
only happy ending for a woman was marriage. She was
also terrified of getting married because she'd never really seen
a happy and equal marriage in her own family. My
father was one of ten nine Lebanese boys who were
not abusive to their eyes, but very dominating, and my
mother was one of five Italians, four girls and a boy,
(12:40):
and all of them were involved with dominating men and
my parents. My mother gave up her career, my father
ran the world. I just didn't want to live that way.
I thought, nah, that's not for me. And I had
wonderful relationships with men in my life, but I just
(13:01):
didn't want to be married. I just that I want
a career, I want to be free, I want to
do what I want to do. I don't want anybody
telling me when I have to come home, I can't
do this, or my mother's friends would say things like,
well he lets me do this, or he'll let me
have that. I just wasn't raised to want that. And
then I met Phil, and we've been going together about
(13:23):
six or seven months, and he asked me to marry him,
and I said, no, I really don't ever want to
be married. And so we kept together, going together, and
then about three years went by, and then one day
I said, you know, maybe I do want to be married.
She took three years, and you were very patient. Well
that time you were busy raising your kids and you
(13:45):
had your show. So we're busy working and stuff. But
we were always together. Marlowe moved in with Phil and
his four boys into their house. And Whennetka, Illinois, I
was a little naive, you know. I thought, oh, I'm
in love with this man. And by the way, he
has four sons. I married a family. I didn't marry
a man. I married a family. At first, I thought, well,
(14:05):
I'm not their parent. Fills their parent, and he'll tell him,
you know, discipline them and teach them and so forth.
It wasn't It took a while for me to realize
that I really had to be a part of the
decision making entity. I couldn't pretend that I was a bystander.
(14:28):
I wasn't. It was a family, and I helped bring
it back to being a family because their parents had
been divorced for a while. When I met Phil. The
boys are like boys, you know. They took their dinner
and one would eat it in their baredom, and one
would eat it in the living and watching television, and
one would eat it over there whatever there. And I said,
(14:49):
come on, now, let's have a dinner time. And we'd
sit down at the table, all of us. And Phil
said he got to know his kids better because at
the dinner table they had a real family conversation. When
I had them all by myself, I mean I was
really I was scared. I didn't know what to do
with them. I mean, do I help them all with homework?
I mean four And I have to say I was
(15:12):
very impatient. I I went off. I mean i'd have well,
what the kids called a spaz. That's two z's, you know.
A spaz was something that bothered me or man, I
went up. I remember one time I passed Michael who
was on the phone, and he was saying to his friend,
(15:33):
let me call you back. My dad is having a spaz.
And when Marlow came, who was it, Michael? I think
it was. Michael said to her, we like it when
you're here because dad doesn't have as many spazes when
you're here. So, you know, Marlow was a big hit
(15:54):
with my kids. Well, I brought you know what wasn't
in the house, the female energy, a mother energy. And
they were good boys though they really were. They were
like Phil you know. They were all loved athlete headaches.
They liked to laugh, they were fun, they liked to ski,
they liked to play. It was fun for me and
(16:14):
they knew me from Free to be You and Me,
so I wasn't a complete stranger to them. And they
knew I made their father happy. And I think, isn't
that what everybody wants? You know, they want their parents
to be happy, and I wanted them to be happy.
I wanted to be something good in their lives. Marlow
(16:36):
told me this story about how she became the godmother
to her stepson Michael's children. Their baby was supposed to
be born around Christmas time, and Michael and his wife
called Marlowe and said, hey, we need to talk to
you about something. We don't want you to be the
step anything to this baby. We want you to be
this baby's godmother. And that meant so much to me
(16:56):
that they had really appreciated my caring and my love
of them and their dad, because you know, being a
stepparent can be a very thankless job. You know you're
on eggshows. You don't want to upset anything, and you
don't want to take liberties where you shouldn't. I know
(17:17):
Mary Steinberg and said she has two children of her own,
and she married Ted Danson with his own to two daughters,
and she said, I just wanted to be a cheerleader
for them. So everybody has their way with us. It
was different because I moved into the house and the
four boys were there, but it was a good experience
(17:37):
for me. So Phil and Marlowe had been merging their
lives together, but after years of living between la and Illinois,
they ultimately decided to give up their respective cities and
make a higherly new life together in New York and
we would start a new life. We gave up where
(17:57):
we were, gave up our own homes and decided to
make a life. It was a real commitment. But it's
not so much that you can't live without somebody, is
that you just want to live with them. And nobody
can be somebody's everything. Right, that's some musical lyric. Maybe
(18:18):
you're my everything. No, no, don't get into that, because
it's not possible for somebody to be somebody's everything. Well,
and you don't have what's the word of a contract
for somebody, as I said, to become you or for
you to become them. The excitement of a good marriage,
(18:38):
I think, is not that one and one equals two,
but it equals two thousand. We find all the parts
of yourself that are can be nurtured by this other person.
That's the exciting part. I think marriages go stale when
there's not enough We call it juiciness, but I think
there's just not enough interest in a lot of things.
(19:01):
When we first started going together, you said to me,
I've never been with a woman who has so much
interest in so many other things. Other than that's what
you said. I'm sure I did, and I thought that
was adorable thing to say. You know that, he was
really saying, I see this, You aren't going to be
completely focused on me, and I like it. You know,
(19:23):
that's was an interesting I realized I was not her
everything and it was helpful. I mean, you know, it
makes it easier to get through the reality of life. Well,
but now you are now you are pretty watched by everything.
But I think it happens. It happens year by year
(19:47):
by year by year. But doesn't you know, It's not
something you give over to somebody. It's something that grows
and grows until you know it's braided. You know, like
you see a tree where the two barks are braided.
That happens naturally. It's not something you can and promise
(20:10):
to somebody or make them give to you. It's just
something that starts to happen. And I think, you know,
Phil said earlier that half of marriages end in divorce.
I think they end in divorce because they're never really
taking the time. They didn't try. Time, they didn't try,
but time. We have a ritual when every year on
(20:31):
our anniversary from our very first year, we don't buy
each other a present, We buy a trip that we
take together. In the early years, it was difficult to
find the time I was working in La he was
working in Chicago and had children and four boys that
lived with him. It was very, very hard to find
the time, but we always did it. We'd get two
(20:53):
weeks or ten days or one week, whatever we could get,
and we'd go to Japan, or we'd go to Indonesia
or upstate Washington, wherever we could get the time. But
time is what we gave each other. It's the most
precious thing that you can give each other. And people
do date nights and stuff, they kind of squeeze them in.
But we took this big chunk of time and gave
(21:16):
it to each other, and in that time where there's
nothing there at that time. There was cell phones in
many of those years, but the time without kids, without
the phone, without work, without responsibility, just to be together.
You can't have a long marriage without accommodating the other person.
You just can't. It's impossible. But there's always going to
(21:38):
be growing pains, especially when you get married later in life,
when you're already a fully formed grown up with your
own lives, your own friends, your own careers and interests.
You're on side of the pad, you're on favorite TV shows,
all of your own stuff, your own baggage, I'm a
very impulsive person and feels a very laid back person.
(22:01):
So he's a kind of person that if something happens
that needs a reaction, he will it back and go
over many of the options. I, on the other hand,
am running for the phone. I'm going to fix it now.
And sometimes that's good and sometimes that's not good. So
we had to figure out how to talk it through
(22:25):
so that if he took forever or not forever, but
if he took a while to think about it, to me,
it felt like forever, and I was aggravated by that.
And if I jumped for the phone, he was aggravated
that I was being too impulsive. So we had to
learn how to come to a middle ground there and say, Okay,
let's just think about this for a couple of minutes,
and let's just see I don't think this is a
(22:46):
good thing to react to right away. This one really
hit home for me, the idea of just taking some
time to find a middle ground. See, I am also
very impulsive, and Nick he's one of those people that
needs to marinate. It's got to marinate on things. But
it's taken me five plus years of marriage to figure
(23:07):
that out. Somebody won said that a successful marriage is
is one where both people don't panic at the same time.
So we had to learn that as well. That the
fact that he does take longer than I do, and
that I do work quicker than he does react quicker,
we both had to appreciate that in each other and
(23:28):
give each other the opportunity to at least make their
case before we decided it wasn't the best way, and
let each person make their case. And sometimes we go
his way and sometimes we go my way. Despite being very,
very famous people for a long time, Phil and Marlow
try to keep their marriage out of the spotlight. Up
(23:50):
until this point in our lives, we've never talked about
our marriage. We thought from the very beginning that our
marriage would be healthy for its privacy, so we kept
a very low profile. When we first got married, we
came back from our honeymoon, everybody wanted us to host
the Emmy's, host the People's Choice Awards, be on the
(24:12):
cover of People magazine. It was overwhelming. We sat down
and talked about it and said, let's not do this.
If we just keep it private, maybe people won't pick
at it. We'll do our careers and we'll keep our
personal life private. But then like thirty nine years later,
they got this idea for a podcast. Well, we looked
(24:33):
up and realized we've been married for a hundred years,
so maybe we have something to share. Well, also, people
had always asked us, how does your marriage last? What
do you do and everything? We said, we don't know.
I love him, he loves me. We like each other.
I like the way he smells. Does that count. We
started thinking about it, and when we were having our
(24:55):
thirty ninth anniversary, we heard from a couple that was
getting a divorce that had been married a long time,
and we said, wow, I wonder what they did wrong,
and I wonder what we did right. And we just
got curious about it. And so we did that until
this time, and we thought, let's find out what makes
it work. And then Phil said, Okay, I'll do this
(25:18):
with you. I'll go on these double dates and everything,
but I'm not going to talk about our marriage. And
I said, okay, I mean, after forty years, you're not
going to change somebody. But then when we got into
these conversations like when Mark and Swell has talked about
his jealousy with Kelly Rippa, Phil talked about his jealousy
with Chris Kristofferson. Marla made a movie with Chris Christofferson
(25:42):
and there was a love scene in the movie was
four minutes long. It looked to me like it was
about four years long. I remember sitting and watching this
and I really did. I I had a sense of
how draining jealousy is. It takes away the time that
(26:08):
he should be devoted to improving the marriage, building the marriage,
making you close, and you know, it's nothing to do
with the person who is the object of your jealousy.
You know, Kelly Ripper had not done anything to make
her husband jealous. That was his own ballgame. And that's
another thing, you know, because when somebody is jealous, whether
(26:32):
it's male or female, they're blaming it on you and
you didn't do anything. It's in their head. And that's
something that the couples have to come to. I mean,
Phil was very jealous of me with men beginning of
our relationship, where you talked too long with that man
at the party and so forth, and then after a
while you just gave it up. You didn't think it anymore, right, Well, yeah,
(26:53):
And it was the lesson for me was It just
took a lot of weight off my shoulders to be
able to stab jealousy in the heart and get rid
of it. It is a very liberating thing when you
sit down with another couple, you're sharing stories. That's the
(27:15):
fun of being with somebody, with another couple, or being
with a group of people. And so we were sharing
stories and before you knew it, even my silent sam
irishman here started opening up to these people. I mean,
he didn't open up to me. He's always been open
to me, but to other people, which is I think
you're pretty amazed that you've done that. Right. Well, we
(27:37):
wound up, you know. We figured these interviews would be
like what twenty five minutes, half hour, well, three hours? Yeah, well,
you know, and then finally I would say, you know,
I'm really sorry, but we have to leave, you know,
and they would look at me and it's got a
laugh because they had been wondering themselves, when are these
(28:00):
people going to leave? No, they weren't. We made friends. Actually,
we made some new friends. Some of the people like
Alan Alden and Arlene Alden, Rob Ryner and Michelle Ryner.
We knew a lot of the people, but many we
didn't know, and it was fun to get to know
them in such an intimate way. And we were both
surprised that so many people said yes that they would
(28:22):
sit down with us, went to their homes and they
put out things to drink and eat. We had a
really fun time, a really fun time. I think it
it mellowed us to see how all these people have
found the safe spot. We said to each other, you know,
(28:44):
our marriage is really a cushion. It's a cushion in
life that if you don't have that, boy, life has
got a lot of sharp corners. But when you have
someone who has your back, as all of these people
did and we do, it gave us an appreciation for that.
(29:09):
Phil will say to me sometime, Oh, that's great that
you got that for us, or that you invited that
person over. I'm so glad you did that. I'm so
glad that we did this thing you thought of. It's
an appreciation for the other person, or a gratitude, you know,
to say to each other. I'm so grateful for what
(29:30):
you said to me this morning about how I needed
to not feel bad about something. I'm so grateful for
what we have together. It means so much. I mean,
I see marriage like a big plant, a big tree,
and you need to water it. You know, nothing living
can continue to flourish unless you water it, unless you
(29:53):
give it food to nourish it. And I think a
lot of people get married and then they think, Okay,
we're married. But it's not that it's a lot of work,
because that sounds drudgery. It's that it just needs attention.
I think just having the conversation made our own marriage
(30:15):
room here. We had more room in the marriage because
we were bringing in all these other people's feelings and experiences.
We kind of absorbed them and appreciated. It was fun.
It was fun talking to people who took their marriage seriously.
(30:58):
I have to say that I've played so many excerpts
of this conversation with Philla Marlow to Neck. They're definitely
teaching me something about my own marriage, much like phil
and Marlow. Making a podcast about marriage has actually improved
my own marriage. It has. I don't know if it
has for Neck, but it has for me. So many
of these episodes have become like marriage therapy for me
(31:18):
because they let me see how other couples live in
the world, what they do behind closed doors. What they
actually believe. Let they just got things done and live
in the world together and even after having such a
long marriage. Their podcasted the same thing for Phil and Marlowe,
and I think what we were interviewing all these couples,
these kinds of topics would come up. You know, it
(31:40):
was a double date. That's why we call a double date.
They would talk about jealousy, We would talk about jelsie.
They would talk about fighting. How do you come back
from a fight? That's a big thing. We talked about sex.
We asked Alie Wentworth is such a darling. I love her.
She's so funny, and she's so out there and wild
and free. And she's buried to George Stephanopoulos, who's pretty
(32:02):
buttoned up guy. And you would never fix them up together,
but they're perfect together. And asked her she's written some
books about relationships, and I said to her, what's your
advice about sex? And she said, have it and have
a lot of it, which I thought was great. Rob
ryanher said he's married to Michelle. They have a great
(32:24):
marriage too. I said, what's your advice for a young
married couple. He said, Mary, your best friend that you
can have sex with. So sex, best friend, no jealousy.
I mean, these are kind of As you start to
look at the building blocks of how people have made
their marriage is work, you see that these are some
(32:45):
of the ingredients avoid a marriage that involves only one
passionate member. I have to wonder how many people went
through life dragging their spouse across the world, a spouse
not interested in the marriage, not as committed. You see
(33:06):
that a lot in relationships, Well, one person is doing
all the accommodating, and then that does become work, and
that's no longer a love story because a marriage really
has to be a love story too. There's a growing
love story. I mean, many people spoke to us about
(33:27):
the fact that they love their wife or husband more
now than when they first got married because they got
to know them and they like them better. And the
more you like somebody, the more you love them, and
the more you cherish them. This episode of Committee was
(34:03):
hosted and reported by Joe Piazza, with special thanks to
Marla Thomas and Philed Onto You. Supervising producer is Ramsey Young.
The executive producers are Joe Piazza and Tyler Klein. Theme
song and music by Tristan McNeill. For comments, suggestions, or
to be part of the show, give us a call
at four zero four nine nine six one one seven three.
(34:23):
That's four zero four nine nine six one one seven three,
or send us an email at Joe at Committed podcast
dot com. That's jo at Committed podcast dot com. You
can grab a copy of Joe's book How to Be
Married on Amazon or wherever books are sold. Committed as
a production of iHeartRadio and producing our studios located in Atlanta, Georgia.
(34:46):
From more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
If you like this episode, you can listen to Committed
wherever you get your podcasts.
Pushing Hey, double date listeners, Marlow Thomas, here, we have
something special for you today. Phil and I have spent
the pasture interviewing other couples about what makes their marriage work. Well,
we recently had the microphone turned on us. Joe Piazza
of the Committed podcast had us on to tell our
(00:37):
own love story, and we wanted to share that episode
with you. We started at the very beginning on the
set of Phil's show and talked about how we grew
together over the next four decades. Joe's Committed interviews are
an incredible glimpse inside what it takes to make a
marriage work. Sometimes they're heartbreaking, sometimes hilarious, but always relatable.
(01:01):
Joe finds couples who've gone through some of the most
difficult challenges life can throw at you and still want
to wake up together the next day. Her show will
help you look at marriage and commitment in an entirely
new way. So okay, here's the episode. Committed is a
production of iHeartRadio. Marlow Thomas is back. It's been a
(01:27):
couple of years since she last visited with us. You
are so thin, am I thinner than I think last time?
You've never been fat no, no, I eat a lot
of food to try to gain weight. Excellent. You want
me to move out, I'm in the way. Excuse me,
I'm upstaging you. Doctor. Just love the Smooth Show. A
clip right there is the moment that Phil Donnie Hue
fell in love with marlow Thomas. That moment right on
(01:50):
his show in nineteen seventy seven on a sound stage
in Chicago. I'm sorry that we are out of time.
You are really fascinating now. You are wonderful, I said
when we were off there. And I want to say
you are loving and generous, and you like women and
it's a pleasure. And whoever is the woman in your
life is very lucky. How many of us have a
(02:10):
video of the moment that we first fell in love.
Actually have a picture of me on a plane right
when I first saw Nick right that moment, which is
pretty special. I love this video. Their chemistry is insane
and undeniable. Phil is a little stumbly and so obviously smitten.
Marlowe is just so composed and insanely beautiful. You could
watch this clip and not know anything about what happens
(02:33):
next and still knowing your soul that these two people
end up together for the next forty years. So I
wasn't prepared because I had never seen his show because
it wasn't in La So when he walked into the
green room with those killer blue eyes and that great
white hair, and he shook my hand and I thought, Wow,
what a good looking man. And then we got out
(02:54):
in the studio and he was so confident and just
to watch him work the audience, and I was very
attracted to him. I mean, we had a chemical reaction
to each other right right there. You could see it.
I mean, it's embarrassing to look at that show because
you can really see it. And I think the most
important thing is really in a marriage is that it
(03:17):
starts off like that and that gets rekindled all the time,
so that there is that sort of not just sexual
but also attachment. There's a magnet between you that's you
don't have with anybody else. It certainly was true with
me and Marlowe. People just they do have that reaction
(03:41):
to each other, not always but often. And I think
when you start off that way, it's so exciting and
well it's risky. Yeah, it's true. You know, half half
of us get divorced, half of us, so you know,
you and me babe forever. Yeah, that's that's a musical,
(04:03):
kind of lyrical ideas. It doesn't consist with reality. And
that's why making a marriage last can be such a
challenging thing. It's just isn't easy. Marriage isn't just a struggle.
It's a struggle every now and then. But again it's
(04:24):
it's braided, you know, you braid it with love and
joy and struggle and sadness and happiness and fun and humor,
and then another sad thing happens. That's life. It's going
to happen whether you're with this person or not. It's
just whether this person is the one that is worth
going through life with and allowing each other to be
(04:47):
as vulnerable as you want to be. There is no
such thing as a marriage that is smooth sailing from
beginning to end. No, it just doesn't happen. You know,
that's pretty obvious to all of us older folks, right,
But I don't know if it's totally something that young
people are aware of. Joe Pianza and this is committed.
(05:41):
Welcome to Season six Guys Last Month. After more than
forty years of marriage, Bill Donna Hue and Marlo Thomas
launched a podcast together, a podcast about long term love.
It's a show that a lot of our listeners are
going to be very very into. It's called Double Date,
and on it they interview longtime celebrity couples to find
out what really makes a marriage work. We wanted to
(06:05):
know what makes a marriage last. So in order to
find out what makes the marriage last, you've got to
have people who've had some experience being married and who'd
been through things. You know, somebody had been unfaithful. Kia
Cedric and Kevin Bacon lost all their money to Bernie Madoff.
Imagine that Michael J. Fox found out he had a
lifelong diagnosis of Parkinson's Three years into their marriage. Jamie
(06:30):
Lee Curtis was addicted to pharmaceutical drugs and her husband
didn't even know it. I mean, people went through these
terrible things, but they knew that they loved each other
and they were going to help them through it without blame,
without you know, anger, but to get to the other side.
(06:52):
And somebody, and I said, I think it was Tracy
Pollin's married to Michael J. Fox. She said, when you
have a long marriage, you get through something hard and
there's kind of a relief in it. You think, well, wow,
we got through that, we'll get through the next thing.
So I love their podcast. What I needed to know
(07:13):
was more about Phil and Marlow. I wanted to know
how they made a marriage work for forty years, what
makes them tick, how they made it, how they blended
a family together of Phil's four boys, and how they
made long distance love work between Chicago and Los Angeles.
So I took us back to that very first moment
on phil stage. It's nineteen seventy seven. Marlow's sitting next
(07:35):
to Phil. She was on a nationwide tour promoting one
of her many projects, and Phil is saying mostly all
the right things, except for that line about how she
looks so thin. I don't know if anyone would be
able to say that today, But when he says it,
he's just gazing adoringly at her. Well, you know, I
was certainly attracted to her. I mean, if you're Catholic,
(07:59):
you'll understand that she was an impure thought. And I
did call you, yeah, and I said I knew you
were on a tour, and I said, what is your
next city? Right? And you said it's is Denver? And you,
and you said is I said, it is Denver, very
(08:20):
far from Chicago, and he goes, oh, no, it's not
far at all. So he came for dinner, and yeah,
I flew to Denver and we had dinner, and yeah,
pretty much fell in love. Yeah, that was the beginning
of it. And I'd love to hear Phil try to
get through this without being too mushy. By the way,
(08:43):
I think I had a cold, did I not? From
you did? Because you we walked in the rain and
you took your coat off and then you lost your
voice and I did. This was a huge deal. Bill Donnie,
who had the biggest talk show in America at the time.
He needed to talk who was this woman? Who was
this woman at Stollfel's voice? He had no voice, and
(09:03):
his producer was thinking, who is this woman that gets filter?
Leave Chicago? Gettical as a show, but it was it
was a We were certainly smitten at first sight. Phil
was I guess forty when I met you, and I
was thirty eight when I met you. We were already
grown people who'd had careers and other relationships, and and
(09:29):
you had children. I did not have a marriage, but
he'd had a marriage and children. But we'd had other
lives and we come to each other with a lot
of experience that should be appreciated. In our differences are accomplishments.
Phil was always the first person to tell me how
proud he was of what I was accomplishing or what
(09:50):
I had already accomplished. I mean, that's a great that's
a great gift that your partner gives you that kind
of cheerleading. Boy, that's very big, I think in a marriage. Yeah,
as a parent, I wish I had learned that much earlier. Yeah,
the biggest challenge early years was geography. Phil's entire life
(10:12):
was in Chicago and Marlowe's entire life was in Los Angeles.
It was a time in my career where I was
making a television movie after television movie. I produced and
starred in about twelve films all in a row, and
Free to Be was one of the projects at that time.
(10:32):
It happened one Christmas. I mean, there were so many
of them, and Phil was doing a show every day
at nine am, live in Chicago, and four boys, raising
four boys. So I mean the traveling was just crazy
and upsetting, and we'd always have an argument on Sunday night,
one of us would be going back home. And it
(10:53):
took us a while to realize that the reason we
fought on Sunday nights is that we were unhappy that
we were leaving each other. I think geography was the
biggest problem. And we broke up for three months, obviously
before we were married, and said this too much. FEEL said,
I've got these kids, I've got to get them through
high school. I've got my show. And I said, I,
(11:15):
you know, I can't come every weekend. I've got responsibilities,
I've got music scoring, I've script to write. You know,
I just can't do so it was just impossible. So
we broke up. And after we broke up, I went
back to an old boyfriend, and I think he went
back to an old girlfriend or some new girlfriends whatever
for about three months. And after the three months, we
(11:36):
both realize that we needed each other. I often say
to people when they're concerned about whether or not they
want to get married to a certain person, I say,
you know, separate for a couple of months. It really
gives you a good perspective, It really does. I would
be out to dinner with another man and I'd be thinking,
you know Phil would love this or that with that,
(11:57):
I would be He was on my mind all the time.
Marlowe never wanted to be married. In fact, when she
was starring in and producing the sitcom That Girl, a
show about a single woman living on her own, the
network producers wanted to end the series with a wedding,
Marla refused. She didn't even want to get married on TV.
She did not want to give the impression that the
(12:18):
only happy ending for a woman was marriage. She was
also terrified of getting married because she'd never really seen
a happy and equal marriage in her own family. My
father was one of ten nine Lebanese boys who were
not abusive to their eyes, but very dominating, and my
mother was one of five Italians, four girls and a boy,
(12:40):
and all of them were involved with dominating men and
my parents. My mother gave up her career, my father
ran the world. I just didn't want to live that way.
I thought, nah, that's not for me. And I had
wonderful relationships with men in my life, but I just
(13:01):
didn't want to be married. I just that I want
a career, I want to be free, I want to
do what I want to do. I don't want anybody
telling me when I have to come home, I can't
do this, or my mother's friends would say things like,
well he lets me do this, or he'll let me
have that. I just wasn't raised to want that. And
then I met Phil, and we've been going together about
(13:23):
six or seven months, and he asked me to marry him,
and I said, no, I really don't ever want to
be married. And so we kept together, going together, and
then about three years went by, and then one day
I said, you know, maybe I do want to be married.
She took three years, and you were very patient. Well
that time you were busy raising your kids and you
(13:45):
had your show. So we're busy working and stuff. But
we were always together. Marlowe moved in with Phil and
his four boys into their house. And Whennetka, Illinois, I
was a little naive, you know. I thought, oh, I'm
in love with this man. And by the way, he
has four sons. I married a family. I didn't marry
a man. I married a family. At first, I thought, well,
(14:05):
I'm not their parent. Fills their parent, and he'll tell him,
you know, discipline them and teach them and so forth.
It wasn't It took a while for me to realize
that I really had to be a part of the
decision making entity. I couldn't pretend that I was a bystander.
(14:28):
I wasn't. It was a family, and I helped bring
it back to being a family because their parents had
been divorced for a while. When I met Phil. The
boys are like boys, you know. They took their dinner
and one would eat it in their baredom, and one
would eat it in the living and watching television, and
one would eat it over there whatever there. And I said,
(14:49):
come on, now, let's have a dinner time. And we'd
sit down at the table, all of us. And Phil
said he got to know his kids better because at
the dinner table they had a real family conversation. When
I had them all by myself, I mean I was
really I was scared. I didn't know what to do
with them. I mean, do I help them all with homework?
I mean four And I have to say I was
(15:12):
very impatient. I I went off. I mean i'd have well,
what the kids called a spaz. That's two z's, you know.
A spaz was something that bothered me or man, I
went up. I remember one time I passed Michael who
was on the phone, and he was saying to his friend,
(15:33):
let me call you back. My dad is having a spaz.
And when Marlow came, who was it, Michael? I think
it was. Michael said to her, we like it when
you're here because dad doesn't have as many spazes when
you're here. So, you know, Marlow was a big hit
(15:54):
with my kids. Well, I brought you know what wasn't
in the house, the female energy, a mother energy. And
they were good boys though they really were. They were
like Phil you know. They were all loved athlete headaches.
They liked to laugh, they were fun, they liked to ski,
they liked to play. It was fun for me and
(16:14):
they knew me from Free to be You and Me,
so I wasn't a complete stranger to them. And they
knew I made their father happy. And I think, isn't
that what everybody wants? You know, they want their parents
to be happy, and I wanted them to be happy.
I wanted to be something good in their lives. Marlow
(16:36):
told me this story about how she became the godmother
to her stepson Michael's children. Their baby was supposed to
be born around Christmas time, and Michael and his wife
called Marlowe and said, hey, we need to talk to
you about something. We don't want you to be the
step anything to this baby. We want you to be
this baby's godmother. And that meant so much to me
(16:56):
that they had really appreciated my caring and my love
of them and their dad, because you know, being a
stepparent can be a very thankless job. You know you're
on eggshows. You don't want to upset anything, and you
don't want to take liberties where you shouldn't. I know
(17:17):
Mary Steinberg and said she has two children of her own,
and she married Ted Danson with his own to two daughters,
and she said, I just wanted to be a cheerleader
for them. So everybody has their way with us. It
was different because I moved into the house and the
four boys were there, but it was a good experience
(17:37):
for me. So Phil and Marlowe had been merging their
lives together, but after years of living between la and Illinois,
they ultimately decided to give up their respective cities and
make a higherly new life together in New York and
we would start a new life. We gave up where
(17:57):
we were, gave up our own homes and decided to
make a life. It was a real commitment. But it's
not so much that you can't live without somebody, is
that you just want to live with them. And nobody
can be somebody's everything. Right, that's some musical lyric. Maybe
(18:18):
you're my everything. No, no, don't get into that, because
it's not possible for somebody to be somebody's everything. Well,
and you don't have what's the word of a contract
for somebody, as I said, to become you or for
you to become them. The excitement of a good marriage,
(18:38):
I think, is not that one and one equals two,
but it equals two thousand. We find all the parts
of yourself that are can be nurtured by this other person.
That's the exciting part. I think marriages go stale when
there's not enough We call it juiciness, but I think
there's just not enough interest in a lot of things.
(19:01):
When we first started going together, you said to me,
I've never been with a woman who has so much
interest in so many other things. Other than that's what
you said. I'm sure I did, and I thought that
was adorable thing to say. You know that, he was
really saying, I see this, You aren't going to be
completely focused on me, and I like it. You know,
(19:23):
that's was an interesting I realized I was not her
everything and it was helpful. I mean, you know, it
makes it easier to get through the reality of life. Well,
but now you are now you are pretty watched by everything.
But I think it happens. It happens year by year
(19:47):
by year by year. But doesn't you know, It's not
something you give over to somebody. It's something that grows
and grows until you know it's braided. You know, like
you see a tree where the two barks are braided.
That happens naturally. It's not something you can and promise
(20:10):
to somebody or make them give to you. It's just
something that starts to happen. And I think, you know,
Phil said earlier that half of marriages end in divorce.
I think they end in divorce because they're never really
taking the time. They didn't try. Time, they didn't try,
but time. We have a ritual when every year on
(20:31):
our anniversary from our very first year, we don't buy
each other a present, We buy a trip that we
take together. In the early years, it was difficult to
find the time I was working in La he was
working in Chicago and had children and four boys that
lived with him. It was very, very hard to find
the time, but we always did it. We'd get two
(20:53):
weeks or ten days or one week, whatever we could get,
and we'd go to Japan, or we'd go to Indonesia
or upstate Washington, wherever we could get the time. But
time is what we gave each other. It's the most
precious thing that you can give each other. And people
do date nights and stuff, they kind of squeeze them in.
But we took this big chunk of time and gave
(21:16):
it to each other, and in that time where there's
nothing there at that time. There was cell phones in
many of those years, but the time without kids, without
the phone, without work, without responsibility, just to be together.
You can't have a long marriage without accommodating the other person.
You just can't. It's impossible. But there's always going to
(21:38):
be growing pains, especially when you get married later in life,
when you're already a fully formed grown up with your
own lives, your own friends, your own careers and interests.
You're on side of the pad, you're on favorite TV shows,
all of your own stuff, your own baggage, I'm a
very impulsive person and feels a very laid back person.
(22:01):
So he's a kind of person that if something happens
that needs a reaction, he will it back and go
over many of the options. I, on the other hand,
am running for the phone. I'm going to fix it now.
And sometimes that's good and sometimes that's not good. So
we had to figure out how to talk it through
(22:25):
so that if he took forever or not forever, but
if he took a while to think about it, to me,
it felt like forever, and I was aggravated by that.
And if I jumped for the phone, he was aggravated
that I was being too impulsive. So we had to
learn how to come to a middle ground there and say, Okay,
let's just think about this for a couple of minutes,
and let's just see I don't think this is a
(22:46):
good thing to react to right away. This one really
hit home for me, the idea of just taking some
time to find a middle ground. See, I am also
very impulsive, and Nick he's one of those people that
needs to marinate. It's got to marinate on things. But
it's taken me five plus years of marriage to figure
(23:07):
that out. Somebody won said that a successful marriage is
is one where both people don't panic at the same time.
So we had to learn that as well. That the
fact that he does take longer than I do, and
that I do work quicker than he does react quicker,
we both had to appreciate that in each other and
(23:28):
give each other the opportunity to at least make their
case before we decided it wasn't the best way, and
let each person make their case. And sometimes we go
his way and sometimes we go my way. Despite being very,
very famous people for a long time, Phil and Marlow
try to keep their marriage out of the spotlight. Up
(23:50):
until this point in our lives, we've never talked about
our marriage. We thought from the very beginning that our
marriage would be healthy for its privacy, so we kept
a very low profile. When we first got married, we
came back from our honeymoon, everybody wanted us to host
the Emmy's, host the People's Choice Awards, be on the
(24:12):
cover of People magazine. It was overwhelming. We sat down
and talked about it and said, let's not do this.
If we just keep it private, maybe people won't pick
at it. We'll do our careers and we'll keep our
personal life private. But then like thirty nine years later,
they got this idea for a podcast. Well, we looked
(24:33):
up and realized we've been married for a hundred years,
so maybe we have something to share. Well, also, people
had always asked us, how does your marriage last? What
do you do and everything? We said, we don't know.
I love him, he loves me. We like each other.
I like the way he smells. Does that count. We
started thinking about it, and when we were having our
(24:55):
thirty ninth anniversary, we heard from a couple that was
getting a divorce that had been married a long time,
and we said, wow, I wonder what they did wrong,
and I wonder what we did right. And we just
got curious about it. And so we did that until
this time, and we thought, let's find out what makes
it work. And then Phil said, Okay, I'll do this
(25:18):
with you. I'll go on these double dates and everything,
but I'm not going to talk about our marriage. And
I said, okay, I mean, after forty years, you're not
going to change somebody. But then when we got into
these conversations like when Mark and Swell has talked about
his jealousy with Kelly Rippa, Phil talked about his jealousy
with Chris Kristofferson. Marla made a movie with Chris Christofferson
(25:42):
and there was a love scene in the movie was
four minutes long. It looked to me like it was
about four years long. I remember sitting and watching this
and I really did. I I had a sense of
how draining jealousy is. It takes away the time that
(26:08):
he should be devoted to improving the marriage, building the marriage,
making you close, and you know, it's nothing to do
with the person who is the object of your jealousy.
You know, Kelly Ripper had not done anything to make
her husband jealous. That was his own ballgame. And that's
another thing, you know, because when somebody is jealous, whether
(26:32):
it's male or female, they're blaming it on you and
you didn't do anything. It's in their head. And that's
something that the couples have to come to. I mean,
Phil was very jealous of me with men beginning of
our relationship, where you talked too long with that man
at the party and so forth, and then after a
while you just gave it up. You didn't think it anymore, right, Well, yeah,
(26:53):
And it was the lesson for me was It just
took a lot of weight off my shoulders to be
able to stab jealousy in the heart and get rid
of it. It is a very liberating thing when you
sit down with another couple, you're sharing stories. That's the
(27:15):
fun of being with somebody, with another couple, or being
with a group of people. And so we were sharing
stories and before you knew it, even my silent sam
irishman here started opening up to these people. I mean,
he didn't open up to me. He's always been open
to me, but to other people, which is I think
you're pretty amazed that you've done that. Right. Well, we
(27:37):
wound up, you know. We figured these interviews would be
like what twenty five minutes, half hour, well, three hours? Yeah, well,
you know, and then finally I would say, you know,
I'm really sorry, but we have to leave, you know,
and they would look at me and it's got a
laugh because they had been wondering themselves, when are these
(28:00):
people going to leave? No, they weren't. We made friends. Actually,
we made some new friends. Some of the people like
Alan Alden and Arlene Alden, Rob Ryner and Michelle Ryner.
We knew a lot of the people, but many we
didn't know, and it was fun to get to know
them in such an intimate way. And we were both
surprised that so many people said yes that they would
(28:22):
sit down with us, went to their homes and they
put out things to drink and eat. We had a
really fun time, a really fun time. I think it
it mellowed us to see how all these people have
found the safe spot. We said to each other, you know,
(28:44):
our marriage is really a cushion. It's a cushion in
life that if you don't have that, boy, life has
got a lot of sharp corners. But when you have
someone who has your back, as all of these people
did and we do, it gave us an appreciation for that.
(29:09):
Phil will say to me sometime, Oh, that's great that
you got that for us, or that you invited that
person over. I'm so glad you did that. I'm so
glad that we did this thing you thought of. It's
an appreciation for the other person, or a gratitude, you know,
to say to each other. I'm so grateful for what
(29:30):
you said to me this morning about how I needed
to not feel bad about something. I'm so grateful for
what we have together. It means so much. I mean,
I see marriage like a big plant, a big tree,
and you need to water it. You know, nothing living
can continue to flourish unless you water it, unless you
(29:53):
give it food to nourish it. And I think a
lot of people get married and then they think, Okay,
we're married. But it's not that it's a lot of work,
because that sounds drudgery. It's that it just needs attention.
I think just having the conversation made our own marriage
(30:15):
room here. We had more room in the marriage because
we were bringing in all these other people's feelings and experiences.
We kind of absorbed them and appreciated. It was fun.
It was fun talking to people who took their marriage seriously.
(30:58):
I have to say that I've played so many excerpts
of this conversation with Philla Marlow to Neck. They're definitely
teaching me something about my own marriage, much like phil
and Marlow. Making a podcast about marriage has actually improved
my own marriage. It has. I don't know if it
has for Neck, but it has for me. So many
of these episodes have become like marriage therapy for me
(31:18):
because they let me see how other couples live in
the world, what they do behind closed doors. What they
actually believe. Let they just got things done and live
in the world together and even after having such a
long marriage. Their podcasted the same thing for Phil and Marlowe,
and I think what we were interviewing all these couples,
these kinds of topics would come up. You know, it
(31:40):
was a double date. That's why we call a double date.
They would talk about jealousy, We would talk about jelsie.
They would talk about fighting. How do you come back
from a fight? That's a big thing. We talked about sex.
We asked Alie Wentworth is such a darling. I love her.
She's so funny, and she's so out there and wild
and free. And she's buried to George Stephanopoulos, who's pretty
(32:02):
buttoned up guy. And you would never fix them up together,
but they're perfect together. And asked her she's written some
books about relationships, and I said to her, what's your
advice about sex? And she said, have it and have
a lot of it, which I thought was great. Rob
ryanher said he's married to Michelle. They have a great
(32:24):
marriage too. I said, what's your advice for a young
married couple. He said, Mary, your best friend that you
can have sex with. So sex, best friend, no jealousy.
I mean, these are kind of As you start to
look at the building blocks of how people have made
their marriage is work, you see that these are some
(32:45):
of the ingredients avoid a marriage that involves only one
passionate member. I have to wonder how many people went
through life dragging their spouse across the world, a spouse
not interested in the marriage, not as committed. You see
(33:06):
that a lot in relationships, Well, one person is doing
all the accommodating, and then that does become work, and
that's no longer a love story because a marriage really
has to be a love story too. There's a growing
love story. I mean, many people spoke to us about
(33:27):
the fact that they love their wife or husband more
now than when they first got married because they got
to know them and they like them better. And the
more you like somebody, the more you love them, and
the more you cherish them. This episode of Committee was
(34:03):
hosted and reported by Joe Piazza, with special thanks to
Marla Thomas and Philed Onto You. Supervising producer is Ramsey Young.
The executive producers are Joe Piazza and Tyler Klein. Theme
song and music by Tristan McNeill. For comments, suggestions, or
to be part of the show, give us a call
at four zero four nine nine six one one seven three.
(34:23):
That's four zero four nine nine six one one seven three,
or send us an email at Joe at Committed podcast
dot com. That's jo at Committed podcast dot com. You
can grab a copy of Joe's book How to Be
Married on Amazon or wherever books are sold. Committed as
a production of iHeartRadio and producing our studios located in Atlanta, Georgia.
(34:46):
From more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
If you like this episode, you can listen to Committed
wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com