September 23, 2016 • 40 mins
Buzz and Sheldon are brothers in their eighties who have been estranged for decades. Buzz visits Sheldon to see if there’s still a relationship left to salvage.
Credits
Heavyweight is hosted and produced by Jonathan Goldstein.
This episode was also produced by Wendy Dorr, Chris Neary, and Kalila Holt.
Editing by Alex Blumberg and Peter Clowney.
Special thanks to Caitlin Kenney, Starlee Kine, and Rachel Ward.
The show was mixed by Haley Shaw.
Music in this episode by Christine Fellows, with additional music and ad music by Haley Shaw. Our theme song is by The Weakerthans courtesy of Epitaph Records.
A version of this story appeared on This American Life, and we had a lot of help from the folks there: Ira Glass, Julie Snyder, Jonathan Menjivar, Sean Cole, and Robyn Semian. A very special thanks to Emily Condon.
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Yell from Gimblet Media. This is Jonathan Goldstein, your old pal.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Is that is that was called Gimblet Gimblet Media.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
That's correct. It sounds like giblets the inside of a chicken,
like all the innerds. Well, everybody loves giblets. You Oh shit,
they're my kids.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hey guys, I'm up here.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Do you know what my new podcast is about. I know,
I don't know anything about it. Each week I travel
into people's pasts to help them repair something that's been
troubling them. M hm. I'm sort of like a therapist.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Like a therapist.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
So yeah, do you find out? Do you find that funny?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I just think supportive.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
That's the laughter of support.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think it's great.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
I think it's great.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Do you have any questions for me about what my
show is and what it's going to be?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Like, what's the name of your show? What's the name
of your show?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yes, we're gonna go now, but Johnson's just about tell
me the name of his new show.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
As soon as he tells me, I'm going to bang
down on him in five.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Remember that, yes, to hang.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Up the phone on each other. Okay, ready, Yes, the
name of the show is Heavyweight Heavyweight, You get It?
Speaker 6 (01:18):
Two one.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Hello. Hello from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this
is Heavyweight Today's episode Buzz.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Hello, Hey Dad, Hi Johnny.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Hey, how you doing good? You good good good? Yum
tip SAMEA.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
What's that meaning?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I'm not sure. This is my father Buzz. I'm calling
him at his home in Montreal. And the reason we're
talking crazy talk is because it's young Kipper the Jewish
day of Atonement, which seems as good a day as
any to talk with him about forgiveness. So I wanted to.
I wanted to ask you something and I just wanted
(02:11):
to gauge your interest. YEA, how would you feel about
paying your brother Sheldon a visit?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I have no feelings by I'm not really interested.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
You're not.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
No.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
My father Buzz is eighty and his brother, Sheldon, his
only sibling, is eighty five, and for the past forty
years they've pretty much been on the outs. My father
lives in Montreal and Sheldon lives in Florida, and the
last time they saw each other over twenty years ago
was at their mother's funeral when they had a fight
(02:48):
over the details of the arrangements. Since then, they've hardly spoken.
It worries me because there's not a lot of time left,
and I don't want my father to have regrets. When
the subject of his brother comes up, as it often
has over the years, my father feels competing things. He
grows angry or defensive, but other times he'll become sad
(03:09):
and remorseful. And it's the sorrow and the remorse that
I like best, because it's these feelings that I believe
speak to his better self, the self I want to encourage.
I'm not surprised that you're not jumping at the idea,
but I'm a little surprised that yours against the idea.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, time's passed. He hasn't shown much interest, so I'm
respecting that and I leave alone.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
What he did do was he he called you on
your eightieth birthday not so long ago, and you.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Felt good about it to him on his eightieth birthday.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
This kind of tit for tat accounting is what always
gets in the way. There's been a competition between the
brothers since I was a kid. I remember how in
my grandmother's small New York kitchen, Sheldon and Buzz got
into an argument about who could do the most push ups,
and the next thing I knew, my father was pulling
off his shirt and dropping to the kitchen floor in
his undershirt. My mother, not used to seeing the side
(04:06):
of him, stood over my father, flapping a dishtowel hysterically
while begging him to the point of tears to please stop.
Now you go, my father said, rising from the floor
when he was done. But Sheldon shook his head with
a smile. It was like he didn't even think my
father was worth the effort.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You know what it is at this point with him,
I'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's
even anger. He's past anger, and he's passed any feelings
of animosity. He's passed that. He just doesn't care. Yeah,
you know, that's apathy. I mean, sometimes at least hate
or love their emotions. Apathy is nothing. Yeah, you know what.
(04:48):
Johnny as a child, even when I was ten, when
I was nine, and I was crazy about him. We
had a great you know, I loved him. He was
the older brother.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
He was hello, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Uh, you know. I just looked up to him, and
he had older friends. Sometimes he'd take me along with
him and he was good, Hey, somebody trying to somebody
trying to call here, binging me here.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Don't you see, Buzz? It's father time? Who is bringing
you here? And Buzz loses track of time. Air Conditioners
remain boxed all through July, and expired coupons from the
mid nineties make plump his wallet, so I worry he'll
put off reaching out to Sheldon until it's too late.
(05:37):
The most complicated question, the one I keep coming back to,
is how did the bad blood begin? And there are
many versions. An ill fated trip to Montreal where Sheldon
felt slighted about having to stay in my father's basement,
an ill fated trip to New York where my father
felt slighted about having to stay in Sheldon's attic, rude
words spoken to each other's wives. In one version of
(05:59):
the story, Sheldon's refusal to bring a table to my
brists almost resulted in my being circumcised on an ironing board.
But in the version being told today, my father was
asked by Sheldon to pay more than his fair share
for their mother's funeral, and.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I said, you always working some kind of an angle,
So he got furious. He got furious, He started screaming
into the phone, go to hell, drop dead, bye ba by,
And that was how that ended. But I feel he's
the kind of guy that the gun he has angles
like that, you know he has angles. I always felt
(06:35):
I was on the up and up with him and
he wasn't with me.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
If you've got a stronger sense that he was interested
in seeing you, then would you yes, yes, you would
be my granting.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I wouldn't play the house though, that's out of the question.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Okay, quick sidebar. Anytime I've ever raised the prospect of
visiting Sheldon, no matter how hypothetical the scenario, my father
always makes a point of insisting, how no matter what,
he would not stay in Sheldon's house, even if he
was invited to which I should point out he never is.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I wouldn't stay at his house. How come you I
wouldn't stay there, I mean, not my thing?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
How come you always bring that up? I mean, normally,
when someone goes to visit someone that they haven't seen
in decades, don't stay at a hotel.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I would stay at a motel or somewhere near hetel.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
No, we'd get a place, you know with an ice machine,
and uh, you know why you want to.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You're interested in making a trip.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I mean, I'm interested. Do you think that there's anything
to be gained in seeing him?
Speaker 7 (07:44):
Hm?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I guess there's something then, you know, you share your
common experience and talk about the old days, and there
are things that only he and I can remember. You know, yeah,
you know you What you could do is you could
call him and see what what what what his attitude is?
You know, it depends on you, know how how how
(08:09):
how you feel, what kind of receptions you get.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, I mean I would. I would be happy to
do that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I like your initial suggestion that you call him, feel
him out, and see what he's like.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Okay, I didn't suggest that, but you you suggested that.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I like that just because you'll give me an honest
you'll give me an honest reaction.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I'm happy to do it. But I mean, what what
what are you looking for from from? What do you
want to hear from him?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I missed my brother. I would like to see him. Okay,
that's all.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay, you understand, and you come back.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
On me with an honest evaluation.
Speaker 8 (08:59):
Hello, Sheldon, Yeah, speaking hi that it was quite a
shock getting your phone call. You said, Johnath. Yeah, my
hearing is not that great, okay, And when I heard
the first message, I'm saying, who the heck is that?
I don't know anybody by that name.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Sheldon now lives outside of Fort Lauderdale, but my few
memories of him are from when he lived in upstate
New York. I remember he lived in a trailer. I
remember that he worked at a local prison, that he
smoked cigars, that he looked a little like my father,
but was hunched, like the world was weighing down on him.
And he always wore this expression on his face that
seemed to say, you gotta be kidding me. You're keeping okay,
(09:45):
you're keeping occupied.
Speaker 8 (09:46):
Yeah, I read a lot. I going to gym. I
go shopping. Hi, you know, here and there, little things
here and there.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And so you still go. How often you go to.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
The gym three times a week?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And what kind of stuff do you do there?
Speaker 7 (10:05):
Well?
Speaker 8 (10:05):
I do about twenty minutes of aerobics, uh huh, and
then I do a little weight training. I try to
flirt a little with the women there.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Oh yeah. My father also goes to the gym. That's
a part of his routine. Also, he was he was
happy to hear from you on his eightieth birthday.
Speaker 8 (10:32):
Yeah, well he didn't call me on my eighty.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Fifth though, tit meet tat Yeah, like, so, you know,
maybe we could go out for dinner. I don't know
that kind of thing.
Speaker 9 (10:48):
Uh huh.
Speaker 8 (10:51):
Well, what kind of time frame are we talking about here?
Speaker 9 (11:05):
I don't know. Our lives have been much different. I
don't know how much we have to have in common anymore.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Yeah, we don't have.
Speaker 9 (11:18):
We don't have much in common anymore except the fact
that we're elderly and retired.
Speaker 7 (11:26):
Other than that, I don't.
Speaker 9 (11:27):
Know what we have in common.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
You have your past in common?
Speaker 10 (11:33):
Yes, I'll tell you honestly. I'm not a very sentimental person,
and I think, and I being a pragmatist, I take
things the way they are. I try not to dwell
upon the past, and I try not to take people
(11:56):
the way I remember them, but as they are.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Do you think that makes things easier.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
Makes things easier for me?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah? Do other people around you? Sometimes? Doesn't make it
harder for other people around you ever.
Speaker 9 (12:20):
To be honest with you, I've been in the last
few years. I've been a loner.
Speaker 7 (12:29):
You would basically almost call me a recluse. I don't
socialize with many people, and I really don't give a
damn what anybody thinks.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 9 (12:47):
Contrary to popular believe, I like.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
Being alone by myself. I get along with myself very well.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (12:58):
Look, I don't want to be rude. Yeah, yeah, but
I want to go have my lunch.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. It's fine, Sheldon. I
appreciate your talking to me, and you would be amenable
to spending some time.
Speaker 9 (13:16):
Why not. We are brothers. I mean, we're not closer
or anything, but you know we're not going to have.
Speaker 7 (13:24):
A chance to see each other much in the future.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, is that anything that you think about?
Speaker 9 (13:37):
Not much now?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And so I call my father back and let him
know that Sheldon is amenable. And because I know that
for my father the days tend to pile up like
unboxed air conditioners, I have my mother get on the
phone to help nail down a firm travel date.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And Daddy wants to go.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
If Dad wants to go, if he wants.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
To go next weekend.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
We don't have to go on the weekend. We can
go during the week.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah. Comes, as you know, you caught me off. God,
how about it. I'll call you Wednesday or Thursday.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
How's that today's Monday or yeah, or even if you
feel like calling tomorrow, you can call me.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, okay, I'll probably I'll call you at the latest Thursday.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
To get the Thursday at the latest. That's three days
from today. Okay, all right, you do what you want
to do. You call me, but I'll call you a
Thursday coming up after the break Thursday, and so on Thursday,
possibly with a little nudging for my mother, Buzz agrees.
(14:56):
And then my father and I are off to Florida
to the at my uncle Sheldon too, and then you
have an address, Yeah I do, Okay. My dad and
I meet up at the Fort Lauderdale Airport. I flew
from New York and my dad from Montreal. My father's
all dressed up, wearing a faux Swaede sports jacket that
I've never seen him in. We grab our airport rental
(15:18):
and prepare for the two hour drive to Sheldon in
the ninety degree heat. It's immediately made clear that faux
swayed might not have been the best fashioned choice.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
It's like we're on a safari.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
On the road to Sheldon's. My father will experience a
spectrum of feelings. As we first set out, there's excitement.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
You know, my brother was funny in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I could laugh.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
We're gonna have laughed with him, you know what I mean.
He's a very funny man.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
A half an hour in and there's bitterness.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
We invited him to your Moments and he returned a
very cold card. Sorry we will not be attending. It
was you know, so mean, you know what I mean?
Even the writing.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
An hour in and how is buzz feeling.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I'm relaxed.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
I'm kind of old to get anxious, you know what
I'm meaning.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Half an hour to Sheldon's.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
A little bit apprehensive now.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, ten minutes to Sheldon's and buzzes feeling all right, Yeah,
he's feeling a little.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
It's gonna be strange. Yeah, it's gonna be very strange.
I mean, the man is a stranger to me now,
and yet he's my brother.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
You understand.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
It's a very strange feeling.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Yeah, I wonder if he's getting nervous, maybe because he's
waiting for us, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
You all set?
Speaker 11 (16:49):
Yeah, Oh it's hot, it's really hot.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah. Sheldon lives in the corner house. On a quiet
suburban street.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I guess.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Is this his door?
Speaker 11 (17:07):
I'll double check, maybe, because there is.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
I smelled the good smell of cigar.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
They had become a monk.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And after all the years and the worry and the dread,
things seem to be going swimmingly. We sit down at
Sheldon's kitchen table and my father gets right into it.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Now, there's things I want to know. You said that
Rainy died.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
The dead are a good place to begin as a subject.
They're easily agreed upon and not likely to spark a fight.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
The uncle died. The uncle died. He was the youngest brother. Oh,
he died long ago.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
He died.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Who died? Real prick.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Yeah, I didn't know him that well, he didn't know Yeah, yeah, shocking.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Yeah, he was fat. He was fat, red head.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
Red head right, yeah, yeah, remember Johnny. Johnny was a
sax man.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
John He would fuck a dog on the street if
you sort of dog and try to fuck the dog.
Can I get your guys a cold beer? I'd like
a beer, olive beer.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Even though they're in their eighties, Sheldon and Buzz still
possessed voices and temperaments suited to shouting out Brooklyn tenement windows. Well,
my voice olive beer is best suited to asking a
waitress if there will be a sharing charge. I forgot
about that.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Case in point this is Sheldon accidentally swiping a portable
mike her phone receiver off the kitchen table and me
trying to smooth things over.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
This off. Well, it's annoying.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
No, he just put it in the in your pocket there.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Just take it off please.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Over the next couple of days, my testes will flee
like frightened cockroaches upward, ascending to heights not seen since
the bar Mitzvah that Sheldon was not attending. And while
we're on the subject of testes, here's Sheldon reminiscing about
the time he was examined for a rupture by their
family doctor.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Me and Walie Rosen were joining the weightlifting Yeah, say,
how to be tested for a rupture? Hey, I'm being
put his hand onto my balls. I started left and
so hot, I pissed right in his hand.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Over the years, I've seen my father in the role
of husband, uncle, and grandfather, but I've never really seen
him in the role of younger brother. How odd to
see it now? At eighty, he sits beside Sheldon with
this expression I've never seen on his face. It's wide eyed,
sweet and deferential. But as the day wears on, Sheldon
(20:14):
and Buzz began to squabble over their memories, fighting over
every little detail.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Remember the hallabaloo we had with the diet haaddyet that
heavy set.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Girl a manicurist. She was a head dying manicurist. No,
she was a head dying. Here's what happened. She went
over to Earth.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
They even argue over the death of their grandmother.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
I found her body.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
My mother was across the street a Greenborough, I remember,
and I knew she was dead. I never saw a
dead body in my life, but I knew she was dead.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Sure, so wait till you found her, or you found her.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
I remember looking in on the room and see how
I said, it was awfully whet.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
I found her, but let him no, I'm not some credit.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
The whole afternoon is like this. Every subject, even their
dead grandmother, somehow becomes fodder for another pissing match. They're
burning up all this time with small talk when what
they need is some big talk. In particular, they need
to address a story that I know who. It's a
great deal of meaning for my father. It took place
in nineteen thirty nine, on the day their mother left them.
(21:24):
I've only ever heard the story from my father, never
from Sheldon. I wanted to ask what you remember, what
your perspective?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Well, I remember that time was when Pop was smacking
Iran and she ran out in the hole and her.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Slip fighting in the hole, he was smacking around.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
She ran out. Yeah, So what happened the next morning?
The next morning, Yeah, they look in a closet, her
clothes were gone. She left.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Oh what happened after this? And my father's telling is
that his mother returned soon after she left with a
policeman in tow.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
And they came back to try to get you.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
They wanted you to come back with them, and where
were you? I was there, but they were trying to
drink you out of the house. You weren't trying to No.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
No, I can say with my father and grandma and mother.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
This is the point of the story. For my father.
It proves once and for all how his mother loved
Sheldon more than she loved him. Sheldon didn't move out
with her, and after a year their mother returned and together,
Buzz and Sheldon grew up under the same roof in
the same bedroom, often sleeping under the same blankets, each
(22:43):
knowing who the mother had chosen, and each having to
do their best to carry on and live life with
the burden of that knowledge. A couple times during the
day I asked them why they haven't spoken in so long,
(23:05):
and they both insist, maybe out of embarrassment, that they
do talk, just not often. But it isn't true. In fact,
my father learned of Sheldon's wife's death many years after
the fact, and then only from me. Sheldon's daughter got
in touch through Facebook and we made a phone date
where she caught me up on her life in Sheldon's
(23:26):
and a few nights later, while over at my parents
for dinner, I told my father of his sister in
law's death. There was a terrible look that fell across
his face, one of sadness, but something else too, maybe
shock over just how far he and Sheldon had drifted.
I found out about Judy, about her death. Who your wife?
Speaker 4 (23:49):
I didn't know about it either until you told me. Yeah,
I didn't I tell you. No, you didn't know about it. No,
we didn't know. We didn't know she was sick about
two years here, Judy, Well, when she got the diagnosis,
(24:12):
she was already stage four. What did I know about cancer?
So the surgeon, so he said, So, I said, well, doctor,
how did the surgery go? I always show you. I
went very well. But the cancers in her liver, now
I spread, I said, it's in he'll liver. I said what.
(24:38):
And on top of that, I'm driving home. I'm all
fucked up and I'm spaced out, and my driver windows open,
and some kids pull up alongside me and flip a
lit cigarette into my car. You know where I usually
(25:05):
might commented, buy myself on the ball. They got a
waitress there always wait time.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
It takes cook Canada for dinner. Sheldon takes us to
a local outback steakhouse. As people walk by, he provides
a running commentary of an elderly couple.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Don't get like that couple. Whatever you do, it's time
for the execution.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Of an overweight couple.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
O fat, people are fat.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
It's as though he's sharpening his with readying it for
the main event. Teasing my dad about Canada.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
I don't know how you could take Canada when your white.
So you got nice neighbors.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
It's nice.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
It's okay. Uh. I wasn't gonna say, you're living in
the same place for rom.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Oh about thirty five, thirty eight years, something like that.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
I'm happy here. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (26:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
For my father, I know this is a touchy subject,
believing as he always has, that Sheldon looks down on
him for the dinkiness of his Canadian life and home.
It's like a constant reminder of just who is second best. Later,
my father will repeat Sheldon's words. You're still living in
that same place, He'll say, for how many years? But
(26:22):
just then I watch my father clench and unclench his
jaw as he does when he is brooding. I know
he's trying to take the high road, trying not to
ruin the evening what two.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Hundred dollars and thirty cent said.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I pudd Sheldon invites us back to his place for cookies,
but my father says he isn't up for it.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
As we walk through the restaurant parking lot to the car,
my father is silent. I find myself feeling protective of him.
After midnight, lying awake in our hotel, well, my father
insisted we stay at one, I lay in bed thinking
about that day in nineteen thirty nine when my grandmother
came back for Sheldon, not my father. For my father,
not only did it push him away from Sheldon, making
(27:13):
him feel jealous and resentful, but it also cast a
shadow over the rest of his life, causing him to
always feel passed over. He's mellowed with age, But as
a kid, I saw it come out in all kinds
of ways, always sensitive to slights, ready for a fight
at the smallest perceived defense. I wonder if there's a
different way for my father to see things, If there
(27:34):
is the only living person in this world who can
help is Sheldon. When their mom left, Sheldon was nine,
my father five. Sheldon would have understood a lot more
than my father. Yesterday, Buzz and Sheldon talked like a
couple of kids who used to play stickball in the
old neighborhood. Today, if me and my big fat meddling
(27:55):
Yap have any sway, they'll have a chance to talk
as men, as brothers, ye, because if not. Now when
day two, this.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Is a damn good cigar, Oh, Dominical Republic.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
They make a damn good cigar in Dominical Republic.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Despite the difficulties of last night. The coin is flipped
back to the good side. Sheldon offers my father a cigar,
and with a cigar, some cigar talk, some pretty foul
cigar talk.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
We're riding on Queen's Boulevard. Johnny's in the back seat
with the whole He's got his naked ass up in
the air and he's well, the funny thing. We had
to stop for a light and there's a trunk driver
sitting in the cab bump high. Was funny.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
If you guys missed each other, do you miss each other?
Speaker 4 (28:57):
You know? He asked the weirdest question, What is he abroad? No?
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I mean, I don't know. That's you know, eager to
prove to my uncle Sheldon that in spite of the
fact I'm wearing my wife's travel deodorant, I am indeed
not abroad. I allow them to return to more pressing matters.
They're Prostates, that said Jesus.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
He says, your prest feels like the moon craters. And
there he said, I said, thank you, doctor complimenting.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
So if I could steer this away from the Prostates.
So my father said that it's significant to him to
have come.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
What do you say, I agree with whatever he said?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
But what about you?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I said, I agree with whatever he said? Do you
want to written?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I know, i'my. It feels like I'm getting a taste
of what growing up with Sheldon might have been like.
So again I make my move. So I have some
questions just about because the stories that I know from
my father. But I'm curious your take is because you
were older, do you remember what was going on when
(30:08):
your mom when your mother left? Originally like what what?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Why?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
And what was going on?
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Didn't you cover this ground before yesterday?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
But from my father's perspective, the way I understood it
was always you were the favorite. Did you did you
feel that way? At this point, Sheldon's face suddenly softens.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I always felt that I got the short end of
the stick.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
Yeah, but you have you were kind of a favorite
with my mom.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Yeah. Maybe with mom, of course maybe temperamentally we were
closer than I was with my father. My father never
gave me spit. Did you ever get any money from
my father? I can't remember. You never got a line now,
I can't remember, yeh never. One time I sprained my
(31:01):
ankle so biget that was? That was terrible. I laid
in that bed my hand. He was, He says to me,
you lazy bum. Yeah, man, he went off on me
that time. He took Sheldon.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
Once Sheldon happened to say the word fuck.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
He came in with that fucking strap, swinging with the.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Bucket, and you know, I can understand it, leaving a
feeling of resentment and dislike.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Hey, yeah, that was his way of communicating with us.
Smack smack, and then what a way? Yeah it was
he easier on you. You think, uh, it wasn't that easy.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
But he was tough on Sheldon was.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
I know you were closer to him than I was.
A lot of things that went on. You didn't understand
really what was going on, So you had a different take.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Why are you surprised by But I was a kid.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
I didn't understand it.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
But you didn't know that Sheldon was getting it so bad.
In Buzz's telling, their father was always a more or
less benign, childish figure, incapable of expressing his feelings and
so given to temper tantrums. For Buzz, it was their
mother who was the manipulator, the woman who played the
brothers off each other. But hearing Sheldon's take. It sounds
(32:27):
like maybe their mother didn't come to take Sheldon because
she loved him best, but simply because he needed more
protecting from their father. For the first time during our trip,
I can see my father considering Sheldon's point of view,
(32:47):
actually taking it in. I know it's intense for him
because he can't even meet Sheldon's eyes. Instead, he looks
at me, addresses his comments to me.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
You know, it said that my father's such a negation
of impact on him, you know, just awful because he
had so much going for me. He was a wonderful son.
He worked hard, he was a good boy.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
He went to school talking like I'm a failure in life. No,
you weren't a faith That's what I'm saying. You learn
a faith.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
But all I'm saying is that emotionally he left an
impact on you.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
It took a long time for me to get out
of that emotion. And now I'm at peace to myself.
I can talk about him and laugh about it.
Speaker 9 (33:36):
Now.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
I want peace quiet. I'm happy living by myself.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Are you lonely?
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Sheldon?
Speaker 1 (33:51):
The last time my father saw my grandfather in full health,
my dad was visiting from Canada, my grandfather asked my
father to drive him to the semin Harry to visit
his parents' grave, and once there, my grandfather wept inconsolably.
Later that day he would succumb to a stroke, and
shortly after we moved to a nursing home, with Sheldon
(34:12):
being more local. The burden of my grandfather's care fell
mainly to Sheldon. It seems like a lot of the
family's burdens fell to Sheldon.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
They put a lot of a lot of the responsibility
on him. That my dad should have been taking that responsibility, and.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
He shouldered that. Well, who was going to take car
of you? Who is going to take you to school? Meet? Yea,
I remember one time I was later or something. You
stood outside that right, I said, mousy, I'm here, I'm here.
He was good to meet a lot of times me.
(34:48):
You know, you were.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
My older brother used to knock the shit out of
me sometimes, But you know that's the way it is
with brothers.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Well, yeah, I was good in some way some way
that I was mean? Who was not?
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Who is not?
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Who is not?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
So if you feel like you were compelled to see
each other now because you knew that, you know, it's
an hour and never kind of thing. Then it means
that it was important to you both right to see
each other.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
You want to take that sure yes, easy answer, Yes, yes,
because we're not getting any younger. I mean, what's down
the road. I'm eighty he's eighty five. I mean because
there was a lot of water under the bridge and
we want to close that bridge.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Now.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
I want to feel easy. Now, I want to say,
now he's going to be eighty six. I want to
call him on his birthday and say happy birthday to him. Now,
I'm not going to stand any fucking ceremonies anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
As my father speaks, as per his brother's example, dropping
f bombs like he's in a Guy Ritchie film, Sheldon
keeps his arms crossed and his eyes shut tight. He's
quiet for several seconds, and then he reaches out to
pet his cat.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Should I leave you at a cat in my will?
If anything happened.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
If anything out, I'll take care of the cat. I'll
take care of the cat. I'm happy I can't to
see you.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
That I am. I'm happy it can't here. That's good,
very good. Wherever I want to.
Speaker 9 (36:21):
Buy a house.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
When it's time to leave, Sheldon walks us outside, but
before we get into the rental, he points across the
lawn to his neighbor's house. He tells my father that
it's for sale, and then he tells him the asking price,
and my father says that doesn't sound bad at all.
And Sheldon says that, what with Canada being so bloody cold,
my father should consider moving to Florida, and my father
(36:47):
says maybe he will. They don't get too emotional, they
don't even hug it by, They just shake hands. And
with that, it feels like Buzz has forgiven Sheldon, and
Sheldon has forgiven Buzz.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
All right, you take care of under the bridge. Safe
trip both, thank you, Yeah, thank you. We'll speak. M'll speak.
Speaker 11 (37:18):
Turn right on Northwest drawn.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Oh my god, it feels so different now, you know.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
This has taken a lot off my shoulders idea.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
As we ride to the airport, my father says that
the thought of Sheldon all alone in that house with
just a cat makes him sad. Do you really think
he isn't lonely, my father asks. I assure him that
Sheldon seems okay with being alone, but my father doesn't
seem so sure. After all these years, the burden of
having lost his brother has been replaced by a new burden,
(37:53):
one that might be heavier to bear.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Now that the fern ures returned into its goodwill home,
now that the last month's rent is skating with.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
The damage to pos take this moment to dissolve.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
If we mentage, if we tried felt around for fuck
to from the bank said accident.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Lee Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein.
This episode was also produced by Wendy Dore, Chris Neary,
and Khalila Holt, editing by Alex Bloomberg and Peter Clowney.
Special thanks to Caitlin Kenny, Starley Kine and Rachel Ward.
The show was mixed by Hailey Shaw. Music in this
(39:27):
episode by Christine Fellows, with additional music and ad music
by Hailey Shaw. Our theme song is by The Weaker Bands,
courtesy of Epitaph Records. A version of the story appeared
on This American Life, and we had a lot of
help from the folks there, Ira Glass, Julie Snyder, Jonathan
men Heavar, Sean Cole and Robin Semeon a very special
thanks to Emily Condon. Follow us on Twitter at heavyweight.
(39:49):
We'll have a new episode next week.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
We used to call him Mitchy, little bitchy, Remember the
older brother, the oldest one. He was kind of hey,
well lucky we turned out as good as we did.
Yell from Gimblet Media. This is Jonathan Goldstein, your old pal.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Is that is that was called Gimblet Gimblet Media.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
That's correct. It sounds like giblets the inside of a chicken,
like all the innerds. Well, everybody loves giblets. You Oh shit,
they're my kids.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hey guys, I'm up here.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Do you know what my new podcast is about. I know,
I don't know anything about it. Each week I travel
into people's pasts to help them repair something that's been
troubling them. M hm. I'm sort of like a therapist.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Like a therapist.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
So yeah, do you find out? Do you find that funny?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I just think supportive.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
That's the laughter of support.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I think it's great.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
I think it's great.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Do you have any questions for me about what my
show is and what it's going to be?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Like, what's the name of your show? What's the name
of your show?
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Yes, we're gonna go now, but Johnson's just about tell
me the name of his new show.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
As soon as he tells me, I'm going to bang
down on him in five.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Remember that, yes, to hang.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Up the phone on each other. Okay, ready, Yes, the
name of the show is Heavyweight Heavyweight, You get It?
Speaker 6 (01:18):
Two one.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Hello. Hello from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this
is Heavyweight Today's episode Buzz.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Hello, Hey Dad, Hi Johnny.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Hey, how you doing good? You good good good? Yum
tip SAMEA.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
What's that meaning?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I'm not sure. This is my father Buzz. I'm calling
him at his home in Montreal. And the reason we're
talking crazy talk is because it's young Kipper the Jewish
day of Atonement, which seems as good a day as
any to talk with him about forgiveness. So I wanted to.
I wanted to ask you something and I just wanted
(02:11):
to gauge your interest. YEA, how would you feel about
paying your brother Sheldon a visit?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I have no feelings by I'm not really interested.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
You're not.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
No.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
My father Buzz is eighty and his brother, Sheldon, his
only sibling, is eighty five, and for the past forty
years they've pretty much been on the outs. My father
lives in Montreal and Sheldon lives in Florida, and the
last time they saw each other over twenty years ago
was at their mother's funeral when they had a fight
(02:48):
over the details of the arrangements. Since then, they've hardly spoken.
It worries me because there's not a lot of time left,
and I don't want my father to have regrets. When
the subject of his brother comes up, as it often
has over the years, my father feels competing things. He
grows angry or defensive, but other times he'll become sad
(03:09):
and remorseful. And it's the sorrow and the remorse that
I like best, because it's these feelings that I believe
speak to his better self, the self I want to encourage.
I'm not surprised that you're not jumping at the idea,
but I'm a little surprised that yours against the idea.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, time's passed. He hasn't shown much interest, so I'm
respecting that and I leave alone.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
What he did do was he he called you on
your eightieth birthday not so long ago, and you.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Felt good about it to him on his eightieth birthday.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
This kind of tit for tat accounting is what always
gets in the way. There's been a competition between the
brothers since I was a kid. I remember how in
my grandmother's small New York kitchen, Sheldon and Buzz got
into an argument about who could do the most push ups,
and the next thing I knew, my father was pulling
off his shirt and dropping to the kitchen floor in
his undershirt. My mother, not used to seeing the side
(04:06):
of him, stood over my father, flapping a dishtowel hysterically
while begging him to the point of tears to please stop.
Now you go, my father said, rising from the floor
when he was done. But Sheldon shook his head with
a smile. It was like he didn't even think my
father was worth the effort.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You know what it is at this point with him,
I'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's
even anger. He's past anger, and he's passed any feelings
of animosity. He's passed that. He just doesn't care. Yeah,
you know, that's apathy. I mean, sometimes at least hate
or love their emotions. Apathy is nothing. Yeah, you know what.
(04:48):
Johnny as a child, even when I was ten, when
I was nine, and I was crazy about him. We
had a great you know, I loved him. He was
the older brother.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
He was hello, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm listening.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Uh, you know. I just looked up to him, and
he had older friends. Sometimes he'd take me along with
him and he was good, Hey, somebody trying to somebody
trying to call here, binging me here.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Don't you see, Buzz? It's father time? Who is bringing
you here? And Buzz loses track of time. Air Conditioners
remain boxed all through July, and expired coupons from the
mid nineties make plump his wallet, so I worry he'll
put off reaching out to Sheldon until it's too late.
(05:37):
The most complicated question, the one I keep coming back to,
is how did the bad blood begin? And there are
many versions. An ill fated trip to Montreal where Sheldon
felt slighted about having to stay in my father's basement,
an ill fated trip to New York where my father
felt slighted about having to stay in Sheldon's attic, rude
words spoken to each other's wives. In one version of
(05:59):
the story, Sheldon's refusal to bring a table to my
brists almost resulted in my being circumcised on an ironing board.
But in the version being told today, my father was
asked by Sheldon to pay more than his fair share
for their mother's funeral, and.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I said, you always working some kind of an angle,
So he got furious. He got furious, He started screaming
into the phone, go to hell, drop dead, bye ba by,
And that was how that ended. But I feel he's
the kind of guy that the gun he has angles
like that, you know he has angles. I always felt
(06:35):
I was on the up and up with him and
he wasn't with me.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
If you've got a stronger sense that he was interested
in seeing you, then would you yes, yes, you would
be my granting.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I wouldn't play the house though, that's out of the question.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Okay, quick sidebar. Anytime I've ever raised the prospect of
visiting Sheldon, no matter how hypothetical the scenario, my father
always makes a point of insisting, how no matter what,
he would not stay in Sheldon's house, even if he
was invited to which I should point out he never is.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I wouldn't stay at his house. How come you I
wouldn't stay there, I mean, not my thing?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
How come you always bring that up? I mean, normally,
when someone goes to visit someone that they haven't seen
in decades, don't stay at a hotel.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I would stay at a motel or somewhere near hetel.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
No, we'd get a place, you know with an ice machine,
and uh, you know why you want to.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You're interested in making a trip.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I mean, I'm interested. Do you think that there's anything
to be gained in seeing him?
Speaker 7 (07:44):
Hm?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I guess there's something then, you know, you share your
common experience and talk about the old days, and there
are things that only he and I can remember. You know, yeah,
you know you What you could do is you could
call him and see what what what what his attitude is?
You know, it depends on you, know how how how
(08:09):
how you feel, what kind of receptions you get.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, I mean I would. I would be happy to
do that.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I like your initial suggestion that you call him, feel
him out, and see what he's like.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Okay, I didn't suggest that, but you you suggested that.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I like that just because you'll give me an honest
you'll give me an honest reaction.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I'm happy to do it. But I mean, what what
what are you looking for from from? What do you
want to hear from him?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I missed my brother. I would like to see him. Okay,
that's all.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay, you understand, and you come back.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
On me with an honest evaluation.
Speaker 8 (08:59):
Hello, Sheldon, Yeah, speaking hi that it was quite a
shock getting your phone call. You said, Johnath. Yeah, my
hearing is not that great, okay, And when I heard
the first message, I'm saying, who the heck is that?
I don't know anybody by that name.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Sheldon now lives outside of Fort Lauderdale, but my few
memories of him are from when he lived in upstate
New York. I remember he lived in a trailer. I
remember that he worked at a local prison, that he
smoked cigars, that he looked a little like my father,
but was hunched, like the world was weighing down on him.
And he always wore this expression on his face that
seemed to say, you gotta be kidding me. You're keeping okay,
(09:45):
you're keeping occupied.
Speaker 8 (09:46):
Yeah, I read a lot. I going to gym. I
go shopping. Hi, you know, here and there, little things
here and there.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And so you still go. How often you go to.
Speaker 7 (09:58):
The gym three times a week?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And what kind of stuff do you do there?
Speaker 7 (10:05):
Well?
Speaker 8 (10:05):
I do about twenty minutes of aerobics, uh huh, and
then I do a little weight training. I try to
flirt a little with the women there.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Oh yeah. My father also goes to the gym. That's
a part of his routine. Also, he was he was
happy to hear from you on his eightieth birthday.
Speaker 8 (10:32):
Yeah, well he didn't call me on my eighty.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Fifth though, tit meet tat Yeah, like, so, you know,
maybe we could go out for dinner. I don't know
that kind of thing.
Speaker 9 (10:48):
Uh huh.
Speaker 8 (10:51):
Well, what kind of time frame are we talking about here?
Speaker 9 (11:05):
I don't know. Our lives have been much different. I
don't know how much we have to have in common anymore.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Yeah, we don't have.
Speaker 9 (11:18):
We don't have much in common anymore except the fact
that we're elderly and retired.
Speaker 7 (11:26):
Other than that, I don't.
Speaker 9 (11:27):
Know what we have in common.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
You have your past in common?
Speaker 10 (11:33):
Yes, I'll tell you honestly. I'm not a very sentimental person,
and I think, and I being a pragmatist, I take
things the way they are. I try not to dwell
upon the past, and I try not to take people
(11:56):
the way I remember them, but as they are.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Do you think that makes things easier.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
Makes things easier for me?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah? Do other people around you? Sometimes? Doesn't make it
harder for other people around you ever.
Speaker 9 (12:20):
To be honest with you, I've been in the last
few years. I've been a loner.
Speaker 7 (12:29):
You would basically almost call me a recluse. I don't
socialize with many people, and I really don't give a
damn what anybody thinks.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 9 (12:47):
Contrary to popular believe, I like.
Speaker 7 (12:51):
Being alone by myself. I get along with myself very well.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (12:58):
Look, I don't want to be rude. Yeah, yeah, but
I want to go have my lunch.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. It's fine, Sheldon. I
appreciate your talking to me, and you would be amenable
to spending some time.
Speaker 9 (13:16):
Why not. We are brothers. I mean, we're not closer
or anything, but you know we're not going to have.
Speaker 7 (13:24):
A chance to see each other much in the future.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, is that anything that you think about?
Speaker 9 (13:37):
Not much now?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And so I call my father back and let him
know that Sheldon is amenable. And because I know that
for my father the days tend to pile up like
unboxed air conditioners, I have my mother get on the
phone to help nail down a firm travel date.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And Daddy wants to go.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
If Dad wants to go, if he wants.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
To go next weekend.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
We don't have to go on the weekend. We can
go during the week.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah. Comes, as you know, you caught me off. God,
how about it. I'll call you Wednesday or Thursday.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
How's that today's Monday or yeah, or even if you
feel like calling tomorrow, you can call me.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, okay, I'll probably I'll call you at the latest Thursday.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
To get the Thursday at the latest. That's three days
from today. Okay, all right, you do what you want
to do. You call me, but I'll call you a
Thursday coming up after the break Thursday, and so on Thursday,
possibly with a little nudging for my mother, Buzz agrees.
(14:56):
And then my father and I are off to Florida
to the at my uncle Sheldon too, and then you
have an address, Yeah I do, Okay. My dad and
I meet up at the Fort Lauderdale Airport. I flew
from New York and my dad from Montreal. My father's
all dressed up, wearing a faux Swaede sports jacket that
I've never seen him in. We grab our airport rental
(15:18):
and prepare for the two hour drive to Sheldon in
the ninety degree heat. It's immediately made clear that faux
swayed might not have been the best fashioned choice.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
It's like we're on a safari.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
On the road to Sheldon's. My father will experience a
spectrum of feelings. As we first set out, there's excitement.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
You know, my brother was funny in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I could laugh.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
We're gonna have laughed with him, you know what I mean.
He's a very funny man.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
A half an hour in and there's bitterness.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
We invited him to your Moments and he returned a
very cold card. Sorry we will not be attending. It
was you know, so mean, you know what I mean?
Even the writing.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
An hour in and how is buzz feeling.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I'm relaxed.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
I'm kind of old to get anxious, you know what
I'm meaning.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Half an hour to Sheldon's.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
A little bit apprehensive now.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, ten minutes to Sheldon's and buzzes feeling all right, Yeah,
he's feeling a little.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
It's gonna be strange. Yeah, it's gonna be very strange.
I mean, the man is a stranger to me now,
and yet he's my brother.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
You understand.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
It's a very strange feeling.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Yeah, I wonder if he's getting nervous, maybe because he's
waiting for us, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
You all set?
Speaker 11 (16:49):
Yeah, Oh it's hot, it's really hot.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah. Sheldon lives in the corner house. On a quiet
suburban street.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I guess.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Is this his door?
Speaker 11 (17:07):
I'll double check, maybe, because there is.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
I smelled the good smell of cigar.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
They had become a monk.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And after all the years and the worry and the dread,
things seem to be going swimmingly. We sit down at
Sheldon's kitchen table and my father gets right into it.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Now, there's things I want to know. You said that
Rainy died.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
The dead are a good place to begin as a subject.
They're easily agreed upon and not likely to spark a fight.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
The uncle died. The uncle died. He was the youngest brother. Oh,
he died long ago.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
He died.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Who died? Real prick.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Yeah, I didn't know him that well, he didn't know Yeah, yeah, shocking.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Yeah, he was fat. He was fat, red head.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
Red head right, yeah, yeah, remember Johnny. Johnny was a
sax man.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
John He would fuck a dog on the street if
you sort of dog and try to fuck the dog.
Can I get your guys a cold beer? I'd like
a beer, olive beer.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Even though they're in their eighties, Sheldon and Buzz still
possessed voices and temperaments suited to shouting out Brooklyn tenement windows. Well,
my voice olive beer is best suited to asking a
waitress if there will be a sharing charge. I forgot
about that.
Speaker 7 (18:55):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Case in point this is Sheldon accidentally swiping a portable
mike her phone receiver off the kitchen table and me
trying to smooth things over.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
This off. Well, it's annoying.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
No, he just put it in the in your pocket there.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Just take it off please.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Over the next couple of days, my testes will flee
like frightened cockroaches upward, ascending to heights not seen since
the bar Mitzvah that Sheldon was not attending. And while
we're on the subject of testes, here's Sheldon reminiscing about
the time he was examined for a rupture by their
family doctor.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Me and Walie Rosen were joining the weightlifting Yeah, say,
how to be tested for a rupture? Hey, I'm being
put his hand onto my balls. I started left and
so hot, I pissed right in his hand.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Over the years, I've seen my father in the role
of husband, uncle, and grandfather, but I've never really seen
him in the role of younger brother. How odd to
see it now? At eighty, he sits beside Sheldon with
this expression I've never seen on his face. It's wide eyed,
sweet and deferential. But as the day wears on, Sheldon
(20:14):
and Buzz began to squabble over their memories, fighting over
every little detail.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Remember the hallabaloo we had with the diet haaddyet that
heavy set.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Girl a manicurist. She was a head dying manicurist. No,
she was a head dying. Here's what happened. She went
over to Earth.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
They even argue over the death of their grandmother.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
I found her body.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
My mother was across the street a Greenborough, I remember,
and I knew she was dead. I never saw a
dead body in my life, but I knew she was dead.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Sure, so wait till you found her, or you found her.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
I remember looking in on the room and see how
I said, it was awfully whet.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
I found her, but let him no, I'm not some credit.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
The whole afternoon is like this. Every subject, even their
dead grandmother, somehow becomes fodder for another pissing match. They're
burning up all this time with small talk when what
they need is some big talk. In particular, they need
to address a story that I know who. It's a
great deal of meaning for my father. It took place
in nineteen thirty nine, on the day their mother left them.
(21:24):
I've only ever heard the story from my father, never
from Sheldon. I wanted to ask what you remember, what
your perspective?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Well, I remember that time was when Pop was smacking
Iran and she ran out in the hole and her.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Slip fighting in the hole, he was smacking around.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
She ran out. Yeah, So what happened the next morning?
The next morning, Yeah, they look in a closet, her
clothes were gone. She left.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Oh what happened after this? And my father's telling is
that his mother returned soon after she left with a
policeman in tow.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
And they came back to try to get you.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
They wanted you to come back with them, and where
were you? I was there, but they were trying to
drink you out of the house. You weren't trying to No.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
No, I can say with my father and grandma and mother.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
This is the point of the story. For my father.
It proves once and for all how his mother loved
Sheldon more than she loved him. Sheldon didn't move out
with her, and after a year their mother returned and together,
Buzz and Sheldon grew up under the same roof in
the same bedroom, often sleeping under the same blankets, each
(22:43):
knowing who the mother had chosen, and each having to
do their best to carry on and live life with
the burden of that knowledge. A couple times during the
day I asked them why they haven't spoken in so long,
(23:05):
and they both insist, maybe out of embarrassment, that they
do talk, just not often. But it isn't true. In fact,
my father learned of Sheldon's wife's death many years after
the fact, and then only from me. Sheldon's daughter got
in touch through Facebook and we made a phone date
where she caught me up on her life in Sheldon's
(23:26):
and a few nights later, while over at my parents
for dinner, I told my father of his sister in
law's death. There was a terrible look that fell across
his face, one of sadness, but something else too, maybe
shock over just how far he and Sheldon had drifted.
I found out about Judy, about her death. Who your wife?
Speaker 4 (23:49):
I didn't know about it either until you told me. Yeah,
I didn't I tell you. No, you didn't know about it. No,
we didn't know. We didn't know she was sick about
two years here, Judy, Well, when she got the diagnosis,
(24:12):
she was already stage four. What did I know about cancer?
So the surgeon, so he said, So, I said, well, doctor,
how did the surgery go? I always show you. I
went very well. But the cancers in her liver, now
I spread, I said, it's in he'll liver. I said what.
(24:38):
And on top of that, I'm driving home. I'm all
fucked up and I'm spaced out, and my driver windows open,
and some kids pull up alongside me and flip a
lit cigarette into my car. You know where I usually
(25:05):
might commented, buy myself on the ball. They got a
waitress there always wait time.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
It takes cook Canada for dinner. Sheldon takes us to
a local outback steakhouse. As people walk by, he provides
a running commentary of an elderly couple.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
Don't get like that couple. Whatever you do, it's time
for the execution.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Of an overweight couple.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
O fat, people are fat.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
It's as though he's sharpening his with readying it for
the main event. Teasing my dad about Canada.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
I don't know how you could take Canada when your white.
So you got nice neighbors.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
It's nice.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
It's okay. Uh. I wasn't gonna say, you're living in
the same place for rom.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Oh about thirty five, thirty eight years, something like that.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
I'm happy here. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (26:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
For my father, I know this is a touchy subject,
believing as he always has, that Sheldon looks down on
him for the dinkiness of his Canadian life and home.
It's like a constant reminder of just who is second best. Later,
my father will repeat Sheldon's words. You're still living in
that same place, He'll say, for how many years? But
(26:22):
just then I watch my father clench and unclench his
jaw as he does when he is brooding. I know
he's trying to take the high road, trying not to
ruin the evening what two.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Hundred dollars and thirty cent said.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I pudd Sheldon invites us back to his place for cookies,
but my father says he isn't up for it.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
As we walk through the restaurant parking lot to the car,
my father is silent. I find myself feeling protective of him.
After midnight, lying awake in our hotel, well, my father
insisted we stay at one, I lay in bed thinking
about that day in nineteen thirty nine when my grandmother
came back for Sheldon, not my father. For my father,
not only did it push him away from Sheldon, making
(27:13):
him feel jealous and resentful, but it also cast a
shadow over the rest of his life, causing him to
always feel passed over. He's mellowed with age, But as
a kid, I saw it come out in all kinds
of ways, always sensitive to slights, ready for a fight
at the smallest perceived defense. I wonder if there's a
different way for my father to see things, If there
(27:34):
is the only living person in this world who can
help is Sheldon. When their mom left, Sheldon was nine,
my father five. Sheldon would have understood a lot more
than my father. Yesterday, Buzz and Sheldon talked like a
couple of kids who used to play stickball in the
old neighborhood. Today, if me and my big fat meddling
(27:55):
Yap have any sway, they'll have a chance to talk
as men, as brothers, ye, because if not. Now when
day two, this.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Is a damn good cigar, Oh, Dominical Republic.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
They make a damn good cigar in Dominical Republic.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Despite the difficulties of last night. The coin is flipped
back to the good side. Sheldon offers my father a cigar,
and with a cigar, some cigar talk, some pretty foul
cigar talk.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
We're riding on Queen's Boulevard. Johnny's in the back seat
with the whole He's got his naked ass up in
the air and he's well, the funny thing. We had
to stop for a light and there's a trunk driver
sitting in the cab bump high. Was funny.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
If you guys missed each other, do you miss each other?
Speaker 4 (28:57):
You know? He asked the weirdest question, What is he abroad? No?
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I mean, I don't know. That's you know, eager to
prove to my uncle Sheldon that in spite of the
fact I'm wearing my wife's travel deodorant, I am indeed
not abroad. I allow them to return to more pressing matters.
They're Prostates, that said Jesus.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
He says, your prest feels like the moon craters. And
there he said, I said, thank you, doctor complimenting.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
So if I could steer this away from the Prostates.
So my father said that it's significant to him to
have come.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
What do you say, I agree with whatever he said?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
But what about you?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I said, I agree with whatever he said? Do you
want to written?
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I know, i'my. It feels like I'm getting a taste
of what growing up with Sheldon might have been like.
So again I make my move. So I have some
questions just about because the stories that I know from
my father. But I'm curious your take is because you
were older, do you remember what was going on when
(30:08):
your mom when your mother left? Originally like what what?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Why?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
And what was going on?
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Didn't you cover this ground before yesterday?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
But from my father's perspective, the way I understood it
was always you were the favorite. Did you did you
feel that way? At this point, Sheldon's face suddenly softens.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
I always felt that I got the short end of
the stick.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
Yeah, but you have you were kind of a favorite
with my mom.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Yeah. Maybe with mom, of course maybe temperamentally we were
closer than I was with my father. My father never
gave me spit. Did you ever get any money from
my father? I can't remember. You never got a line now,
I can't remember, yeh never. One time I sprained my
(31:01):
ankle so biget that was? That was terrible. I laid
in that bed my hand. He was, He says to me,
you lazy bum. Yeah, man, he went off on me
that time. He took Sheldon.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
Once Sheldon happened to say the word fuck.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
He came in with that fucking strap, swinging with the.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
Bucket, and you know, I can understand it, leaving a
feeling of resentment and dislike.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
Hey, yeah, that was his way of communicating with us.
Smack smack, and then what a way? Yeah it was
he easier on you. You think, uh, it wasn't that easy.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
But he was tough on Sheldon was.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
I know you were closer to him than I was.
A lot of things that went on. You didn't understand
really what was going on, So you had a different take.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Why are you surprised by But I was a kid.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
I didn't understand it.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
But you didn't know that Sheldon was getting it so bad.
In Buzz's telling, their father was always a more or
less benign, childish figure, incapable of expressing his feelings and
so given to temper tantrums. For Buzz, it was their
mother who was the manipulator, the woman who played the
brothers off each other. But hearing Sheldon's take. It sounds
(32:27):
like maybe their mother didn't come to take Sheldon because
she loved him best, but simply because he needed more
protecting from their father. For the first time during our trip,
I can see my father considering Sheldon's point of view,
(32:47):
actually taking it in. I know it's intense for him
because he can't even meet Sheldon's eyes. Instead, he looks
at me, addresses his comments to me.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
You know, it said that my father's such a negation
of impact on him, you know, just awful because he
had so much going for me. He was a wonderful son.
He worked hard, he was a good boy.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
He went to school talking like I'm a failure in life. No,
you weren't a faith That's what I'm saying. You learn
a faith.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
But all I'm saying is that emotionally he left an
impact on you.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
It took a long time for me to get out
of that emotion. And now I'm at peace to myself.
I can talk about him and laugh about it.
Speaker 9 (33:36):
Now.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
I want peace quiet. I'm happy living by myself.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Are you lonely?
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Sheldon?
Speaker 1 (33:51):
The last time my father saw my grandfather in full health,
my dad was visiting from Canada, my grandfather asked my
father to drive him to the semin Harry to visit
his parents' grave, and once there, my grandfather wept inconsolably.
Later that day he would succumb to a stroke, and
shortly after we moved to a nursing home, with Sheldon
(34:12):
being more local. The burden of my grandfather's care fell
mainly to Sheldon. It seems like a lot of the
family's burdens fell to Sheldon.
Speaker 5 (34:20):
They put a lot of a lot of the responsibility
on him. That my dad should have been taking that responsibility, and.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
He shouldered that. Well, who was going to take car
of you? Who is going to take you to school? Meet? Yea,
I remember one time I was later or something. You
stood outside that right, I said, mousy, I'm here, I'm here.
He was good to meet a lot of times me.
(34:48):
You know, you were.
Speaker 5 (34:50):
My older brother used to knock the shit out of
me sometimes, But you know that's the way it is
with brothers.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Well, yeah, I was good in some way some way
that I was mean? Who was not?
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Who is not?
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Who is not?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
So if you feel like you were compelled to see
each other now because you knew that, you know, it's
an hour and never kind of thing. Then it means
that it was important to you both right to see
each other.
Speaker 5 (35:20):
You want to take that sure yes, easy answer, Yes, yes,
because we're not getting any younger. I mean, what's down
the road. I'm eighty he's eighty five. I mean because
there was a lot of water under the bridge and
we want to close that bridge.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Now.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
I want to feel easy. Now, I want to say,
now he's going to be eighty six. I want to
call him on his birthday and say happy birthday to him. Now,
I'm not going to stand any fucking ceremonies anymore.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
As my father speaks, as per his brother's example, dropping
f bombs like he's in a Guy Ritchie film, Sheldon
keeps his arms crossed and his eyes shut tight. He's
quiet for several seconds, and then he reaches out to
pet his cat.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Should I leave you at a cat in my will?
If anything happened.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
If anything out, I'll take care of the cat. I'll
take care of the cat. I'm happy I can't to
see you.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
That I am. I'm happy it can't here. That's good,
very good. Wherever I want to.
Speaker 9 (36:21):
Buy a house.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
When it's time to leave, Sheldon walks us outside, but
before we get into the rental, he points across the
lawn to his neighbor's house. He tells my father that
it's for sale, and then he tells him the asking price,
and my father says that doesn't sound bad at all.
And Sheldon says that, what with Canada being so bloody cold,
my father should consider moving to Florida, and my father
(36:47):
says maybe he will. They don't get too emotional, they
don't even hug it by, They just shake hands. And
with that, it feels like Buzz has forgiven Sheldon, and
Sheldon has forgiven Buzz.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
All right, you take care of under the bridge. Safe
trip both, thank you, Yeah, thank you. We'll speak. M'll speak.
Speaker 11 (37:18):
Turn right on Northwest drawn.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Oh my god, it feels so different now, you know.
Speaker 5 (37:25):
This has taken a lot off my shoulders idea.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
As we ride to the airport, my father says that
the thought of Sheldon all alone in that house with
just a cat makes him sad. Do you really think
he isn't lonely, my father asks. I assure him that
Sheldon seems okay with being alone, but my father doesn't
seem so sure. After all these years, the burden of
having lost his brother has been replaced by a new burden,
(37:53):
one that might be heavier to bear.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Now that the fern ures returned into its goodwill home,
now that the last month's rent is skating with.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
The damage to pos take this moment to dissolve.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
If we mentage, if we tried felt around for fuck
to from the bank said accident.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Lee Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein.
This episode was also produced by Wendy Dore, Chris Neary,
and Khalila Holt, editing by Alex Bloomberg and Peter Clowney.
Special thanks to Caitlin Kenny, Starley Kine and Rachel Ward.
The show was mixed by Hailey Shaw. Music in this
(39:27):
episode by Christine Fellows, with additional music and ad music
by Hailey Shaw. Our theme song is by The Weaker Bands,
courtesy of Epitaph Records. A version of the story appeared
on This American Life, and we had a lot of
help from the folks there, Ira Glass, Julie Snyder, Jonathan
men Heavar, Sean Cole and Robin Semeon a very special
thanks to Emily Condon. Follow us on Twitter at heavyweight.
(39:49):
We'll have a new episode next week.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
We used to call him Mitchy, little bitchy, Remember the
older brother, the oldest one. He was kind of hey,
well lucky we turned out as good as we did.
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