June 26, 2025 • 47 mins
This week, we’re calling up one of our fan-favorite guests from season two: Rose.
Almost twenty years ago, Rose was kicked out of her college sorority. “You know what you did,” was the only explanation she was ever given. All these years later, Rose still wants to know what it is she did.
Credits
This episode was produced by Jonathan Goldstein, Kalila Holt, and Kaitlin Roberts, with editing by Jorge Just, Alex Blumberg, and Wendy Dorr. Special thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, Misha Glouberman, and Jackie Cohen. The show was mixed by Kate Bilinski. Music by Christine Fellows and John K Samson, with additional music by Blue Dot Sessions, Michael Charles Smith, Hew Time, and Keen Collective. Our theme song is by The Weakerthans courtesy of Epitaph Records.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin Khila Holt. Welcome to the.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Studio, Jonathan Goldstein, Thank you for welcoming me to the studio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Getting a little bit of sarcasm.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thank you, Thank you for welcoming me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Today, we're going to be listening to an episode that
originally ran Oh boy, like what seven years ago?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We're in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I'm pretty sure, so, oh my eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It's a fan favorite.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, and it's one of my favorites too.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
There's something I still quote from it, which is I
think she explains in the episode when she says Pearl,
I still think of Pearl to this day.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Rose has had an impact on me.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And I'm sure she's gonna have an impact on our listeners.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm sure she is.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Rose has an impact wherever she goes. And if you
stick around at the end of the episode, we're going
to catch up with present day Rose and see where
she is all these years later, what she's up to.
Enjoy everybody, But don't start licking your chops quite yet.
That's disgusting. Who wants to do about chops before you
(01:23):
start enjoying. We are going to start off with a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Hey, how are you.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I noticed that we're not Facebook friends or not?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
No? I think didn't you try to Facebook friend me?
Speaker 5 (01:42):
I don't think I responded.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Do you know how embarrassing that is? You don't even
friend me?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Then we're better than Facebook friends, we're real life friends.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
No, that's worse than Facebook friends because no one knows
we're friends. Let's go to the internet right now. Let's
friend each other at the exact same.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Time each other, because I have to go to work
right now.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Can't you take the computer with you.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
I'm stepping out the door now and I have to
get on my bicycles.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Bounce on the handlebars, and then you could we could
we could facebook. Don't you think that's a good idea? If, like,
if we both friend each other at the same time? No,
why not?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
One?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Two, three? And then we pressed the button? Ready hurtful
from Dimlet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight.
Today's episode rose In nineteen sixty two, the Beatles had
(02:51):
their first number one hit, Love Me Do. A lesser
known fact is that just months earlier, the band kicked
out their original drummer, Pete Best. The Beatles had their
manager do the job. The lads just don't want you
in the band anymore, he said.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Further explanation was given, but over the years different theories emerged.
Pete Best didn't have the right hair, Pete Best wasn't
funny or artsy enough, he didn't dress right. For a
long time afterwards, Pete Best wondered why his old friends
had kicked him out. But he got married, started a family.
Obla de oh bla da, life went on. That's what happens.
(03:32):
People get kicked out of bands, parties, jobs, and eventually
they stopped searching for the reason why most people do anyway.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So I moved into my college dorm when I was seventeen.
I was an incoming freshman in the fall of two
thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
This is Rose and the school she was entering was
the University of North Florida, and it's like.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
A beachy community. I was like a cool surfer chick.
I dreve like an old Volvo that was covered in
like band stickers.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Rose was a rebel, And if all the teen movies
I'd watched during the mid eighties taught me anything about
campus life, it was that rebels don't mix with popular kids,
and at the University of North Florida. Nobody was more
popular than the sorority girls.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Well, you like walk through school and they're set up
there and they're like along the sidewalks and they're like,
are you interested in enjoying a sorority? And I would
just like blow by on my skateboard and be like no,
I didn't think that I'd ever be affiliated with it.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
With with with sorority life.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, with Greek life, with the sororities and the fraternities
and like the cool kids and their pop callers, Like,
I didn't think that was for me. So the summer
after my freshman year, I meet this dude and I
start dating him, and he's in a fraternity and I'm
(04:55):
making friends with all these people in the Greek community
and I'm like, Oh, they're normal, they're not pretentious, they're
not weird. I started to dress like them, I started
to act like them, and I wanted to be accepted.
And the fall of my junior year, I rushed and
I got a bid from Alpha Kai and I joined.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Sorry, the name of the sorority.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Was, it's called Alpha chi Omega.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Alpha chi Omega.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
And we were the Theta Sigma chapter Stata sigma chapter
theta with the thh. So it was the Theta sigma
chapter of Alpha ky Omega, and it was at unf sororities.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
It was a new and exciting world with such a
rich history. It turns out that Condoleeza, Rice Enron Whistleblow,
or Sharon Watkins and Don Wells, who played Marianne on
Gilligan's Island, were all members of Alpha Kai and had
taken secret oaths to remain sisters for life. I listened
avidly as Rose explains what it means to be a
(06:04):
part of Alpha chi Omega Theta sigma chapter.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
We are classy ladies, We are sophisticated, We wear pearls,
we know our manners.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You know, like that, did they use the word classy.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
You're not being classy?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Absolutely. And they had like all these weird acronyms, like
if someone came up to you and whispered in your
ear pearl, it was like the acronym for pearl, pearl,
please engage in acts resembling a lady.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So if someone says pearl in your that would mean
you would begin.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
To It would mean like, let's say I'm doing a
keg stand at a party and another sister is there.
Instead of being like, young lady, get down, write this instant,
because that's causing a scene. Now you're causing attention. Instead,
she's supposed to tap me on the shoulder and whisper
in my ear pearl, and then I'm supposed to be like, oh,
you're right, thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Rose took on new hobbies, scrap booking with her sorority sisters,
building floats for the homecoming parade, and dressing head to
toe in scarlet red and olive green the Alpha Kaya
Omega colors. And while she'd never seen herself being cut
out for all of this sorority stuff, the crazy thing
was it actually made her really happy.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I was a gong ho, like I'm a participator. I
got really into it and just walking around school now
all of a sudden, like you know everybody, and everybody
knows you, and now you're in on the inside jokes,
like I felt like I belonged, Like I went from
being like a disgruntled outsider to being like the bubbly participant.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Rose and her sorority sisters did everything together, beach trips,
watching The Bachelor. One weekend, they all ran a campus
charity race together, but afterwards something felt a miss.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
And I remember thinking like, man, I feel really tired
after that five K and I'm having a lot of
trouble sleeping and I keep sweating through my sheets at night.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Rose also noticed that her neck was swollen. She was
feeling achy and fatigued. After a few weeks, she went
to see a doctor.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
And I said, could you take a look at my neck, like,
I don't think something's right. And the nurse practitioner who
was treating me that day just like looked at me
in horror and was like, you have to go to
radiation right now. And I was like, I have to
make an appointment, and she was like, no, I'm calling
the second floor and you're gonna go get a CT
scan right now. So it was crazy. They called it
(08:33):
nodular sclerosing Hodgkins lymphoma. I had huge, pronounced lymph notes
all over my body. You could take one look at
me and it looked like my neck and chest were
just full of golf balls, like something was wrong. By
the time we started testing and staging, I mean I
was a stage three. This is like big cake cancer,
This is like shave your head, Rose, like you've got
real cancer. So I think around May I started chemo.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Rose dropped out of her classes and quit her extracurriculars.
Her days filled up with doctor's appointments and chemotherapy. The
one bright note throughout was the support she got from
her sorority sisters. They took her to concerts in Jacksonville
Jaguar football games, they sold hot pink ribbons in the
quad and raised thousands of dollars for Rose's treatment. Alpha
(09:18):
Kai took care of Rose, and Rose was dedicated to
Alpha Kai. She was on the executive board in charge
of recruiting new members, and even through her cancer, she
kept up with her work.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
And new girls are coming through and they have to
decide which sorority they want to join. And now Alpha
Kai has like one hell of a tale to tell.
Now we're not just a regular sorority. We're the sorority
with the cancer girl, and we're saving her life.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
And that was something that they led with. That was
actually something that was made explicit.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Oh, I got up there with my bald head and
gave a speech and cried every time about how my
sisters were saving my life.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Rose was lucky by the spring of her senior year,
her cancer went into remission for the first time in
more than a year. She felt like a normal college kid.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I just had a lot of fun that sematter. My
hair's starting to grow back, I'm starting to get my
energy back. I'm starting to feel like a normal person.
And like, now I'm not just going to a party
to like, you know, make sure I'm getting out of
the house, like now I want to party, Like now
I want to have fun. So I did. I felt
like I deserved it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Then one night, after being cancer free for five months,
Rose went to Alpha Kai's weekly meeting, which met in
an old auditorium on campus.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
And I come to the meeting and they're like, hey, Rose,
can you stay after We need to talk to you.
So they clear everybody out and now it's just like
five or six women and me, and they're like all right, Rose,
Like this is gonna be tough. We're gonna have to
ask you to resign. And I was like, excuse me, Yeah,
(10:56):
we're gonna have to ask you to resign. And I
thought they meant from my position, my officer position. I'm like,
you're asking me to step down as VP recruitment, Like
the new girls love me. I'm great with the new girls.
Why I've got this marketing on lock And they're like, oh, no, no, no,
we want you to resign from the organization. We want
(11:18):
you to resign from Alpha Kai and I lost it.
It's like you know that feeling when someone's breaking up
with you, and like you get that cold feeling in
your chest and you know that someone's about to look
at you and say, like this isn't working.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
It was like that times one hundred, Like now a
hundred of my friends were all breaking up with me
in a very methodical way, and I didn't see it coming,
and I just kept saying, why, what do you mean
you want me out? And this is when they just
all of a sudden, it was like these women I'd
(11:54):
known for years, they were strangers and there was no compassion,
there was no kindness. It was you know what you did, Rose,
you know what you did? And I was like, no, no,
you have to tell me what did I do? Did
something bad happen? Rose? We're not getting into it. You
(12:15):
know what you did? And I'm just like, no, no,
I don't know what I did. And at this point
I am so distraught. I think I'm like hyperventilating and crying.
I think I'm ugly crying. I think like snaw is
just bubbling out of my nose and I don't have
the wherewithal to demand answers. And I'm like, so that's it,
(12:36):
We're done here. You want me out? And they're like, yeah,
as of tonight, you are no longer affiliated with Alpha Kyomega.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
She was getting straight a's, she was on the student council,
She never done anything illegal, but Rose was out and
no one would tell her why.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
No one has ever told me?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And did you ever pursue it further?
Speaker 4 (13:02):
God, yes, for years? Like, hey guys, it's been five
years since we graduated college. I know this is kind
of weird, but I still think about it. Does anyone
want to tell me? I've like done the thing on
Facebook where I've like made the big Facebook post where
I'm like, all right, does everyone remember when Rose got
kicked out Alpha Kai, Like if you or anyone you
know has any information, like I'm still dying to know.
(13:23):
And then like dozens of my friends are like, oh,
I'm following this post. What was it?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
What was it?
Speaker 4 (13:27):
And still to this day, no answers and like you're
racking your brain. I'm like, did I get black out
drunk and sleep with someone's boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Did you ever see any other of the sisters get
kicked out?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
No? No?
Speaker 4 (13:40):
And that's the thing is like, okay, let's not mince
words here, like was Rosea party girl? Yes? Were there
girls who were way worse than me?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
And did they get kicked out?
Speaker 6 (13:50):
Never?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Does Rose refer to herself in the third person? Yes?
Does you present the puzzling riddle? Absolutely? And with Jonathan
quit before solving it. Never. Rose's college memories have all
been tainted by that one day twelve years ago, But
her ex sorority sisters are now adult women in their thirties.
(14:13):
They had to be past the college drama. So after
Rose and I part I begin reaching out to them
for their help. Hey, Amanda, this is Jonathan Goldstein. I've
been trying to get in touch Anita. I was trying
to reach you there. Zoe, this is Jonathan Goldstein. We'll
speak soon, Claire. I phone them in their cars.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Hi, Hey, I want to say I've got my daughter
walking into ballet class.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Short. No, of course, I phone them in their homes.
Do you have a minute to speak.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I do, I have a toddler.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
To say, you know, oh yeah, no, that's fine, hy on.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Sugar, because she just stole the bag of jellying. But yes, no,
I cannot pick you up. I'm not picking you up. No,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
But not one of Rosa's ex sorority sisters can tell
me why she'd been kicked out. Some say they don't remember,
it was so long ago. Others say they never knew why.
There were nearly one hundred women in Alpha Kai, but
only a handful had been in the room when Rose
was kicked out. One of these women was named Amber.
(15:24):
When I phone her, she's busy but tells me to
call back, So a few days later I do, Hey, Amber,
this is Jonathan Goldstein. I think we spoke briefly some
time ago.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I call back, and Amber apologizes for our being disconnected,
but when I ask her why Rose was kicked out again,
the line goes dead. This is odd odter Still is
a conversation with an Alpha Kai sister a year younger
than Rose. She says she inherited all the disciplinary documents
(16:00):
from Rose's year, but that one file was missing, the
one detailing why Rose had been kicked out. Things were
beginning to feel Kolludi. Hello, oh hey Rose, Hi. I
(16:24):
call Rose to update her, but it seems she's already
gotten wind of my doings.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
So I think you must have been reaching out to
a bunch of different members of Alpha Kai.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Word had started getting around on Facebook about some guy
snooping around on Rose's behalf. Quickly, a consensus was reached
shut this guy out.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Just the way that some of the girls were replying
in the thread, it just felt like twelve years hadn't
even passed.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And how do you mean?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
It was just like immediately this whole group dynamic took place,
and all of a sudden, instead of people acting like
mature adults who are in their thirties, it was this
whole like mom mentality of this is sketchy, we shouldn't respond.
And then everyone just started to follow in line and
be like, yeah it was sketchy. Yeah, I'm not gonna
call them.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna have to go over
their heads.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
How Alpha ky Omega Headquarters This is season.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
The Alpha Kai Omega National Headquarters is a large brick
building at the end of a long tree lined cool
de sac in Indianapolis, Indiana. It oversees all Alpha ky
Omega sororities across the country. Anytime a sorority kicks someone out,
it has to file a report with headquarters. I asked Susan,
the receptionist, if there might be documents that explain Rose's termination.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Okay, yes, I'm sure there are.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Okay, great? And in your experience, is this something that
comes up sometimes where people want to know why they
might have been kicked out of a so or Is
this unconnon?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I would think most people would know why?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, what happened in her case? This?
Speaker 4 (18:14):
This is a.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Woman by the name of Rose Shapiro.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
And how do you spell her last name Shapiro?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I think it's must be spelled s h A s
H no s h A P s and Peter I
R O H.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Are you yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I did find her in here?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Does it?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Does it say anything with alongside her name?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I'm just looking at a status So you're.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So then there is some information alongside her name.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I'm not gonna because I mean, I can't say anything
about this. Remember, I wouldn't know her at all. And
you know, and you're an outsider, you're not the member.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Would if Rose Shapiro were to call you herself, would
she be able to find out the information?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I would think so sure.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Mm hm, Well we'll just have to see. After the break,
a couple of outsiders try to get some inside information.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Hey, Rose, Yes, Hi, Hi, how's.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
It going good? You ready to get some answers? I
tell Rose about my call with Susan the receptionist, and
we hatch a plan for contacting headquarters. I think I'll
call it and connect you and I'll just be quiet.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
All right, let's call. I'm ready. I'm ready for this.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Okay, I'm gonna call right now, Alpha Kyle Mega Headquarters
this season.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Hi, Susan, my name is Rose.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
And lying on my stomach on the floor of the
darkened studio, I finally feel like a real life popular
girl as I play with the phone cord and silently
nibble from a pan of brownies. Rose explains what happened.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Was ejected from Alpha Kai. I was a member of
Alpha ky Omega that Saya Sigma chapter.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Okay, and what's your name?
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Rose Shapiro?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Okay, all right, I'm gonna give you the Mendy tar water.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Okay, before you transfer, I did have just one more
question for you. Is there any way that you can
just tell from a general perspective if I'm considered as
a member in good standing or as a former member?
Is there even is there anyone?
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I think it's I think it says that you're not
in good standing. I wish I could help you, but
I don't know that obviously. Here Mendy is out this afternoon,
but she's working tomorrow. Why don't we leave a message
with Mendy. Sure, yeah, I think you should do that.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Rose leaves a message with this Mendy tar Water. When
she doesn't hear back. After a week, we call again.
Over the next month, we keep calling with Rose leaving
voicemails and me scraping weeks old brownie crust from the
pan while listening in for emotionals.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Okay, you're on Rose at the tone, Please record your message, Hei, Mandy,
my name.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Is Rose Susan. The receptionist passes her off to other
people at headquarters. Someone named Gina.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Let's try Gina. Hold on. Then someone named Eliza Eliza
Paine is not available to take your call. Please leave
a message after the tone.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Hi Eliza, this is Rose Shapiro. Trying you again.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
One morning, we phone, only to discover that Susan, the receptionist,
has been disappeared, possibly for saying too much.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
O Comega headquarters.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
This is Cynthia or.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Susan had the day off.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Hi Cynthia. My name is Rose Shapiro and I'm a
former member.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Cynthia. She sent Rose right back to Mendy Tarwater.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Hi, Miny, this is Rose Shapiro. I'm the member.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
In the end, after months of phone calls, Rose finally
hears back from Alpha coy Omega headquarters. They pass along
a single document, a letter did April twenty first, two
thousand and five. The letter is brief, plainly stating that
Rose Shapiro resigned from Alpha Kyomega of her own accord.
(23:19):
They have no other information to share. We know now
definitely that the only way that we're going to get
anywhere with this is actually by finding a sorority girl
who was there and willing to talk.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Rose's confidence in me was waning. While she used to
drop everything for one of my updates, now she was
sounding bored and distracted. What are you doing right now?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I'm cutting potatoes, Yeah, I'm cutting potatoes. I'm about to
make some mashed potatoes.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Okay, but the cut the chopping might not be so great.
Recorded fine, my calls were becoming a nuisance. Rose, What
are you cleaning out your fridge?
Speaker 5 (24:11):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I was starting to feel done too. I had nothing.
But a couple of weeks later, I get a call
from one of Rose's ex sorority sisters, a woman named Tricia. Initially,
Tricia hadn't been willing to talk, but over the months
she thought about it and had a change of heart.
(24:36):
I call Rose to share with her our good fortune.
As soon as you finished scrubbing all your cookie pants, I'm.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
Not scrubbing any pants, and I'm not chopping any potatoes.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
All right. So Tricia wasn't just any old sorority sister.
She was one of the six girls in the room
who kicked Rose out of Alpha Kai. And not only that,
Tricia and Rose joined Alpha Kai around the same time,
and people saw them as partners in crime, goofing at parties,
singing show tunes. Only they knew she was someone Rose
(25:08):
at legitimately liked and trusted. I explained to Rose that
since Tricia was the only person willing to speak to us,
she might be our last chance to get an answer,
So during the conversation, we'd need to tread lightly, and
I sense that treading lightly might not be Rose's strongest suit.
(25:30):
The situation required coaxing, possibly even some cajoling, and caution,
plenty of caution. We would need the perfect moment for
Rose to spring the question that's been gnawing at her
for years? Why did you kick me out? So I
decide that a code word is in order, a word
(25:51):
I can use to signal to Rose that the time
is right. I have plenty of experience with code words.
Dinner party going too late and I want people out
of my home. Medicine balls, I'll say to the misses,
and she'll produce a CD of my old spoken word
band mattress shopping and need to communicate my bottom line
while avoiding the prying ears of predatory mattress salesman. Medicine balls,
(26:16):
I'll say, So, every situation requires its own special code word,
and the hours I'd spend crafting this one had been
well worth it.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Okay, what's the code We're going.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
To be so okay? So I I was thinking maybe
medicine balls.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
No, that's so awkward to insert into the conversations.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, I scrambled together my list of Plan B code
words toilet bowl, toilet plunger, turkey, toilet, ou de toilette.
That's very Canadian about How about if I were to
say without a do or a don't? Is that something
that people say, Oh, I'd say. Well, for the better
part of an hour, Rose and I bat around ideas. Yes,
(27:01):
we have no tomatoes, boy, or my dog's barking. Some
people call me Maurice. Finally Rose is satisfied. How about
I say, and so it goes. That's what I'll show
and so it goes, and so it goes. Okay, I'm
writing that down. So that's gonna be our code word. Okay,
So when I say and so it goes, you're gonna say,
(27:22):
you know, Tricia, like what just what happened? We had
a plan, we had a code word. It was time
for another word from our sponsors. Hello, Hey, Tricia, Hey,
(27:55):
so I have I have Rose on the on the line.
I think you guys can hear each other.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Rose.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Hi. Hi.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
It's been years since they've spoken, So Rose and Tricia
catch up, but mostly they reminisce about homecoming, the big
talent show how they were both awarded Best New Sorority Member,
and they were like, we've.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Never done this before, but here you go.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. We did
die for best New Member.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
The conversation eventually turns to Roses cancer going into remission,
and that's when their memories diverge. According to Tricia, after
Rose was diagnosed as cancer free, she became a different
person and started to veer onto what Tricia calls a
bad past.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
I think you got angry, and not at certain people,
but just that like the situation at life.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
You know, I don't necessarily remember like an anger reaction.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
It's not like you were like pushing people down or
plunging them in the face. To me, I think that
what I perceived was like partying with frattorney, like drinking
a lot, like Yolo lifestyle, but also with like two
big metal fingers up. That's just like yo, no one's
gonna tell me what to do or how to live
(29:19):
my life.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
I just have a perception of myself that's like, oh
I be cancer, Like all bets are off, man, Like
now I get to do what I want, like I
did my time, Like now I'm like like if I
want to be drunk on a Tuesday, I deserve to
be drunk on a Tuesday, because hey, I just beat cancer.
Like like I think was there was you were.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Separating, the conversation was taking a turn from happy reminiscence
to battling perceptions of the past. Before things could escalate
any further, something needed to be said. I think and
and so and so it goes.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I think that.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Just Rose got the memo and was back on point.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I think for me, Trish, and like, I don't know
if you can understand this part of it getting kicked out,
like I had no idea was coming.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Yeah, I'm sorry, And I sincerely wish that I could
give you like a list of like this is what
it was, this is what it was, this is what
it was. I honestly like, can't.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I can't became a common refrain. Rose would ask why
she'd been kicked out, and Tricia would say she wants
to tell Rose, but she just can't. I can't talk
about it, can't get into it.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
Like I wish I could give you a specific sentence
of like at this Monty who said this, does that
make sense?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Like I don't know it.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Wasn't making sense to me, and I worried that it
wasn't making sense to Rose either, So I try to
clarify literally, like, I'm not sure whether it's a matter
of like you do know, but you feel an obligation
to kind of hold the secrets of the story all
these years later, Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (31:07):
Or yeah, no, I I and and maybe like I
would say.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
No, like was there some kind of oath or something
like that, or was it because you don't remember.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Well, any CR meeting was like you're under oath. Everything
that happens in here stays in here. And so there
was a confidentiality, a big confidentiality piece to those meetings.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I get the feeling that Tricia and the rest of
her sisters still feel some obligation to protect the secrets
and reputation of an organization they joined in their twenties.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
This is I think the hardest thing was to think
of the health of the chapter as a whole, and
how maintaining the health of the whole thing sometimes hurts
like one or two people.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
By the end of the call, Rose had become uncharacteristically quiet.
So after we all say our goodbyes, I check back
in with her about how she felt the call went.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
I think it sounds like she has some memories, but
she's not sure where she picked them up or who
she's betraying. If she talked about them, She's always going
to believe and everyone else in that room is always
going to believe that there was something about my behavior
that was unbecoming to the image of the sorority. And
(32:29):
I mean, she almost called me a cancer. She almost
said like for the health of the organization, I had
to be removed. I don't think Truce is a bad person.
I really enjoyed reconnecting with her. I think she's a
cool girl. But ultimately, what I got from her is
that she doesn't think kicking me out with a mistake.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
For the next few weeks, I try to find someone,
anyone who might know why Rose was kicked out. I
phone people in the alumni office, in student relations, people
who weren't even in Rose's sorority, just on the long
shot they might have heard something. And then one day
I get a call back from Rick. Rick was Rose's
(33:10):
college boyfriend. They dated all through her illness, and when
we eventually spoke, there was something he told me that
seemed too strange to be a coincidence. Hey, Hi, how
are you?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Oh shit, I have to like drive through the bank.
Drive through right now, real quick.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Always a lot going on. After Rose is done with
her personal banking, I tell her the news. I phoned
up Rick. Okay, and one of the things though, that
he shared with me and I wonder, I mean, I
feel like you must know this though we've not ever
talked about it, is the fact that he was also
(33:56):
kicked out of his fraternity.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Holy shit, wait what yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Like at the time, he was also kicked out of
his fraternity.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Of k kicked out Rick neatering ouse.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah. Rick was kicked out of his fraternity around the
same time as Rose was kicked out of Alpha Kai.
Just like Rose, Rick had been the only person kicked
out in years, and he never got an answer as
to why. But unlike Rose, Rick has a theory about it,
one that explains why both of them got kicked out.
I suggest to Rose that maybe it'd be a good
(34:35):
idea for her and Rick to talk.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yeah, we should make that happen. Hey, Jonathan, how are
you good.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I've got Rose here on the other line. Can you
guys hear each other?
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Hi, I can hear Rick, Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Rick's now a contractor. When I reach him, he's sitting
in his idling truck at a construction site. Not long
after their breakup, Rose graduated and moved out of Florida.
The two haven't spoken in years, and this is the
first time they've talked about and kicked out. Right away,
they start trading stories.
Speaker 7 (35:12):
Mine was just a phone call, and it was a
phone call from one of our brothers that was founding father, Chaz,
and just basically said, hey, you're you're done here.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
That is so insane. You were like the responsible one.
That's so insane.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Before they get to Rick's theory, the two of them
talk about old times, eventually winding their way back to
the days when they were a couple. When Rose was
diagnosed with cancer, Rick actually moved her into his apartment.
He drove her to doctor's appointments, cooked her meals. After
the pink ribbons had been sold and the fundraising had ended,
Rick was the one waiting at home to look after
(35:54):
her at her most sick and vulnerable. Do you remember
being were you scared at any point?
Speaker 6 (36:00):
Rick?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Like, do you fear that like Rose was gonna die.
Speaker 7 (36:03):
Of course.
Speaker 8 (36:04):
I mean, you hear the word cancer and that that's
obviously one of the things that you're going to think about.
You know, we had been dating for a little bit,
but it wasn't a great length of time before this
even happened. So you know, you take those feelings that
you have for somebody and I mean, you're still developing
a relationship and then all of a sudden I go
through and like, hey, you know you have cancer.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
So yeah, I mean the entire process is terrifying.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
It's terrifying. And I was like bald and my skin
was turning gray, and like there he was like going
to functions with me and being my boyfriend. And I
remember one time, I'm in the middle of chemo. I
am bald, I'm like not doing well, and we go
down to Daytona to watch the NASCAR event because it's
right around my birthday. It's the beginning of July. And
(36:49):
then this freak thunderstorm comes out of nowhere and the
temperature dropped like a crazy amount. It downpours, We get
completely soaked, and now there's like chemo, Rose is freezing.
I have no immune system I'm just like teeth chattering.
And so Rick took me over to the vendor area
and he bought me this like had to tell windbreaker
(37:10):
outfit of Darryl Earnhardt, juice. Do you remember that? I
do you look?
Speaker 7 (37:19):
You look like you pretty much belong.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
With that fan base.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
I looked like a twelve year old boy who was
sitting in the bleachers with like his older brother's cool friend.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
In spite of all they'd been through. Pretty quickly, after
her cancer went into remission, Rose broke up with Rick,
and although Rick was sad, he understood it.
Speaker 6 (37:42):
Rose needed to have some time to be able to
go and experience life.
Speaker 7 (37:52):
And so when that took place, her and I split,
and a.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Lot of people are like, oh, well, you know you
split because oh, she's in remission and it needs to
go and kind of live her life. Well that's kind
of a shit way of doing it, because I mean, hell,
didn't you take care of her?
Speaker 7 (38:06):
Yeah, But I mean she's got she's got to figure
herself out. We both got it, but we got it,
and nobody else really understood.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Which brings us to Rick's theory. Rick says that after
he and Rose broke up, people took sides. Rick's friends
were mad at Rose and Rose's friends were mad at Rick,
and each side started rumors about the other, and in
that fog of rumors, both of their good names were ruined.
It was like the breakup version of the Gift of
the Magi. And as they talk, something in Rick's theory
(38:50):
seems to click for Rose.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Absolutely, that theory has never crossed my mind, Like I
am sure someone who felt close to Rick and thought
that maybe I had done him wrong or something could
have gotten blown out of proportion by people who felt
like defensive or protective on either side of that equation.
Speaker 9 (39:09):
Absolutely, I mean I remember, you know, people coming up
to me that were, I mean not even friends of mine,
going oh hey, I heard you and Rose split up,
and I heard she was cheating on you for two years.
Her was cheating on you for you know, the two
months before y'all split with another guy from PI Cap
You remember Trip, Oh yeah, he was the one kick
(39:34):
comes by my apartment one time.
Speaker 7 (39:36):
He's like, oh man, I walked into her apartment. She
was having sex with some dude on the stairs, on the.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Stairs, on the stairs. These rumors confirmed what a lot
of Ros's sorority sisters were beginning to think about her
after her cancer went into remission, that she was too wild,
too much of a partier. But how do you kick
out a poor, innocent cancer survivor from your sorority. It's
a lot easier if she's not so poor and innocent,
(40:03):
if she betrayed the loving boyfriend who saw her through
her illness. These rumors must have been just what the
sorority had been waiting for. It gave them the moral
high ground to get rid of her. So while Rose's
sorority sisters thought her cancer recovery had changed her, Rick
saw the experience as having changed her back to the
(40:23):
person she'd been before joining Alpha Kai.
Speaker 6 (40:26):
So when she started getting into Alpha Kai, I'm like, what,
Thank Really, you're.
Speaker 9 (40:32):
Gonna You're gonna go that route because that's that's not her.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Rose. Are you a Beatles fan?
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Rose had never heard the story of Pete Best. So
I explain how he was kicked out of the Beatles.
I tell her about all the different theories I'd heard
for why he was kicked out, the hair, the style.
But how lately, looking at old photos of the band
with Pete Best hunched in the background. It all seems
a lot simpler when you look at the old photographs
(41:11):
of those guys of the Beatles with Pete Best altogether,
Like he just doesn't look like a Beatle, you know,
And in the final analysis, it's sort of like, why
was he kicked out of the Beatles just because he
just kind of didn't seem like a Beatle.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
I get the analogy you're driving at here, and I
think you're right, Like, ultimately, I just wasn't an alpha kai.
I just wasn't like them. And I can't necessarily put
into words or a definition what made them similar and
made me different, But I just know that I was different.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Rose.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Have you ever considered, like, had you not gotten cancer,
that maybe they would have forced you out earlier?
Speaker 4 (41:56):
God?
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Probably.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
I think I was doing a really good job of
trying to assimilate early on, and I was like, oh,
my best behavior, but I think that like the real
me just kept like cracking out, and then once once
after going through the whole cancer thing, then it's like, uh,
let's not put on airs anymore. Like I am who
I am, and I was trying really hard to like
cram myself into that mold, and it just wasn't fitting,
(42:25):
Like it just wasn't working.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, Like I think, like in having spoken to quite
a few of your old sorority sisters, I mean none
of them sound like you. No, and I mean that.
I mean that in a nice way.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
No, I'm totally down with that. Like I'm a fucking
maniac and that's who I am, and I've come to
fully embrace that right now, Like I'm really cool with
who I am.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Well you know, I'm I'm I'm uh, I'm cool with
who you are. Also, thank you. Years after getting kicked
out of the Beatles, Pete Best said he was still
hopeful that maybe one day he'd find out why. Maybe
I'll run into Paul, he said, and we can talk
about it. If decades from now, Rose should run into
(43:15):
one of her sorority sisters, I hope she won't need
to talk about anything other than the weather or what
she's making for supper, and then she could say or
goodbyes and get back to chopping, banking and basically being
the maniac that she is.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Now that the furnitures returned to it's goodwill, Now that
the last month's rent is scheming with.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
The damage to po take this moment to sell.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
If we meant it, if we talk, we felt around
for far.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
From things that accidentally.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Rose.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Yes, Hi, Hi, there's a siren going back.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I know there's always there's always so much going on
in your life. Let me start with the question that
probably everyone is curious about. Have you, in the intervening
years have you run into any of your sorority sisters.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
No.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
It was kind of a secret wish, like maybe someone
will hear the podcast and they'll finally fess up to
what was going on. Yeah, but I haven't like bumped
into one in town who told me like, oh, this
is what happened.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
It was also uh, as the kids would say, sus
it's a it's.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
A very insular world. And I think the biggest takeaway
I have from that whole sorority debacle is that, for
whatever reason, I didn't assimilate, And instead of being frustrated
by that, I've now kind of carried it like a
badge of honor. I'm not putting any energy trying to
fit a square peg into a round hoole these days.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Do you feel as though you've put something to rest?
Speaker 7 (45:41):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Yeah, yeah, it feels it feels very far away.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Now, what do you think that owes to maturity?
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Distance?
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Time?
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Time is the great interlock? Hutter? Absolutely, I could have
just stayed out of the way, basically, and just let
nature take its course, and it would have been just
as successful.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
I would have got here on my own.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
What are you drinking there?
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Some mint tea little herbal tea in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Wow, you've really become so mature.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Yeah, I've mellowed out a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah. Hey, can I ask you a question? Does Rose
still refer to herself and the third person.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
Jonathan?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Not as much?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Not as much.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
I gotta admit I should bring it back.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Rose should Yeah?
Speaker 4 (46:30):
Rose likes this suggestion.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
There we go. How did that feel?
Speaker 7 (46:35):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (46:36):
A little uncomfortable?
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah. Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together.
We'll be back next week with another Encore presentation and
along with it, another update from our guest.
Pushkin Khila Holt. Welcome to the.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Studio, Jonathan Goldstein, Thank you for welcoming me to the studio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Getting a little bit of sarcasm.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thank you, Thank you for welcoming me.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Today, we're going to be listening to an episode that
originally ran Oh boy, like what seven years ago?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We're in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I'm pretty sure, so, oh my eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It's a fan favorite.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, and it's one of my favorites too.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
There's something I still quote from it, which is I
think she explains in the episode when she says Pearl,
I still think of Pearl to this day.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Rose has had an impact on me.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And I'm sure she's gonna have an impact on our listeners.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I'm sure she is.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Rose has an impact wherever she goes. And if you
stick around at the end of the episode, we're going
to catch up with present day Rose and see where
she is all these years later, what she's up to.
Enjoy everybody, But don't start licking your chops quite yet.
That's disgusting. Who wants to do about chops before you
(01:23):
start enjoying. We are going to start off with a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Hey, how are you.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I noticed that we're not Facebook friends or not?
Speaker 4 (01:39):
No? I think didn't you try to Facebook friend me?
Speaker 5 (01:42):
I don't think I responded.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Do you know how embarrassing that is? You don't even
friend me?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Then we're better than Facebook friends, we're real life friends.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
No, that's worse than Facebook friends because no one knows
we're friends. Let's go to the internet right now. Let's
friend each other at the exact same.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Time each other, because I have to go to work
right now.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Can't you take the computer with you.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
I'm stepping out the door now and I have to
get on my bicycles.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Bounce on the handlebars, and then you could we could
we could facebook. Don't you think that's a good idea? If, like,
if we both friend each other at the same time? No,
why not?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
One?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Two, three? And then we pressed the button? Ready hurtful
from Dimlet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight.
Today's episode rose In nineteen sixty two, the Beatles had
(02:51):
their first number one hit, Love Me Do. A lesser
known fact is that just months earlier, the band kicked
out their original drummer, Pete Best. The Beatles had their
manager do the job. The lads just don't want you
in the band anymore, he said.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Further explanation was given, but over the years different theories emerged.
Pete Best didn't have the right hair, Pete Best wasn't
funny or artsy enough, he didn't dress right. For a
long time afterwards, Pete Best wondered why his old friends
had kicked him out. But he got married, started a family.
Obla de oh bla da, life went on. That's what happens.
(03:32):
People get kicked out of bands, parties, jobs, and eventually
they stopped searching for the reason why most people do anyway.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So I moved into my college dorm when I was seventeen.
I was an incoming freshman in the fall of two
thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
This is Rose and the school she was entering was
the University of North Florida, and it's like.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
A beachy community. I was like a cool surfer chick.
I dreve like an old Volvo that was covered in
like band stickers.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Rose was a rebel, And if all the teen movies
I'd watched during the mid eighties taught me anything about
campus life, it was that rebels don't mix with popular kids,
and at the University of North Florida. Nobody was more
popular than the sorority girls.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Well, you like walk through school and they're set up
there and they're like along the sidewalks and they're like,
are you interested in enjoying a sorority? And I would
just like blow by on my skateboard and be like no,
I didn't think that I'd ever be affiliated with it.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
With with with sorority life.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, with Greek life, with the sororities and the fraternities
and like the cool kids and their pop callers, Like,
I didn't think that was for me. So the summer
after my freshman year, I meet this dude and I
start dating him, and he's in a fraternity and I'm
(04:55):
making friends with all these people in the Greek community
and I'm like, Oh, they're normal, they're not pretentious, they're
not weird. I started to dress like them, I started
to act like them, and I wanted to be accepted.
And the fall of my junior year, I rushed and
I got a bid from Alpha Kai and I joined.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Sorry, the name of the sorority.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Was, it's called Alpha chi Omega.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Alpha chi Omega.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
And we were the Theta Sigma chapter Stata sigma chapter
theta with the thh. So it was the Theta sigma
chapter of Alpha ky Omega, and it was at unf sororities.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
It was a new and exciting world with such a
rich history. It turns out that Condoleeza, Rice Enron Whistleblow,
or Sharon Watkins and Don Wells, who played Marianne on
Gilligan's Island, were all members of Alpha Kai and had
taken secret oaths to remain sisters for life. I listened
avidly as Rose explains what it means to be a
(06:04):
part of Alpha chi Omega Theta sigma chapter.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
We are classy ladies, We are sophisticated, We wear pearls,
we know our manners.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You know, like that, did they use the word classy.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
You're not being classy?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Absolutely. And they had like all these weird acronyms, like
if someone came up to you and whispered in your
ear pearl, it was like the acronym for pearl, pearl,
please engage in acts resembling a lady.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So if someone says pearl in your that would mean
you would begin.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
To It would mean like, let's say I'm doing a
keg stand at a party and another sister is there.
Instead of being like, young lady, get down, write this instant,
because that's causing a scene. Now you're causing attention. Instead,
she's supposed to tap me on the shoulder and whisper
in my ear pearl, and then I'm supposed to be like, oh,
you're right, thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Rose took on new hobbies, scrap booking with her sorority sisters,
building floats for the homecoming parade, and dressing head to
toe in scarlet red and olive green the Alpha Kaya
Omega colors. And while she'd never seen herself being cut
out for all of this sorority stuff, the crazy thing
was it actually made her really happy.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I was a gong ho, like I'm a participator. I
got really into it and just walking around school now
all of a sudden, like you know everybody, and everybody
knows you, and now you're in on the inside jokes,
like I felt like I belonged, Like I went from
being like a disgruntled outsider to being like the bubbly participant.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Rose and her sorority sisters did everything together, beach trips,
watching The Bachelor. One weekend, they all ran a campus
charity race together, but afterwards something felt a miss.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
And I remember thinking like, man, I feel really tired
after that five K and I'm having a lot of
trouble sleeping and I keep sweating through my sheets at night.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Rose also noticed that her neck was swollen. She was
feeling achy and fatigued. After a few weeks, she went
to see a doctor.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
And I said, could you take a look at my neck, like,
I don't think something's right. And the nurse practitioner who
was treating me that day just like looked at me
in horror and was like, you have to go to
radiation right now. And I was like, I have to
make an appointment, and she was like, no, I'm calling
the second floor and you're gonna go get a CT
scan right now. So it was crazy. They called it
(08:33):
nodular sclerosing Hodgkins lymphoma. I had huge, pronounced lymph notes
all over my body. You could take one look at
me and it looked like my neck and chest were
just full of golf balls, like something was wrong. By
the time we started testing and staging, I mean I
was a stage three. This is like big cake cancer,
This is like shave your head, Rose, like you've got
real cancer. So I think around May I started chemo.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Rose dropped out of her classes and quit her extracurriculars.
Her days filled up with doctor's appointments and chemotherapy. The
one bright note throughout was the support she got from
her sorority sisters. They took her to concerts in Jacksonville
Jaguar football games, they sold hot pink ribbons in the
quad and raised thousands of dollars for Rose's treatment. Alpha
(09:18):
Kai took care of Rose, and Rose was dedicated to
Alpha Kai. She was on the executive board in charge
of recruiting new members, and even through her cancer, she
kept up with her work.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
And new girls are coming through and they have to
decide which sorority they want to join. And now Alpha
Kai has like one hell of a tale to tell.
Now we're not just a regular sorority. We're the sorority
with the cancer girl, and we're saving her life.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
And that was something that they led with. That was
actually something that was made explicit.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Oh, I got up there with my bald head and
gave a speech and cried every time about how my
sisters were saving my life.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Rose was lucky by the spring of her senior year,
her cancer went into remission for the first time in
more than a year. She felt like a normal college kid.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I just had a lot of fun that sematter. My
hair's starting to grow back, I'm starting to get my
energy back. I'm starting to feel like a normal person.
And like, now I'm not just going to a party
to like, you know, make sure I'm getting out of
the house, like now I want to party, Like now
I want to have fun. So I did. I felt
like I deserved it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Then one night, after being cancer free for five months,
Rose went to Alpha Kai's weekly meeting, which met in
an old auditorium on campus.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
And I come to the meeting and they're like, hey, Rose,
can you stay after We need to talk to you.
So they clear everybody out and now it's just like
five or six women and me, and they're like all right, Rose,
Like this is gonna be tough. We're gonna have to
ask you to resign. And I was like, excuse me, Yeah,
(10:56):
we're gonna have to ask you to resign. And I
thought they meant from my position, my officer position. I'm like,
you're asking me to step down as VP recruitment, Like
the new girls love me. I'm great with the new girls.
Why I've got this marketing on lock And they're like, oh, no, no, no,
we want you to resign from the organization. We want
(11:18):
you to resign from Alpha Kai and I lost it.
It's like you know that feeling when someone's breaking up
with you, and like you get that cold feeling in
your chest and you know that someone's about to look
at you and say, like this isn't working.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
It was like that times one hundred, Like now a
hundred of my friends were all breaking up with me
in a very methodical way, and I didn't see it coming,
and I just kept saying, why, what do you mean
you want me out? And this is when they just
all of a sudden, it was like these women I'd
(11:54):
known for years, they were strangers and there was no compassion,
there was no kindness. It was you know what you did, Rose,
you know what you did? And I was like, no, no,
you have to tell me what did I do? Did
something bad happen? Rose? We're not getting into it. You
(12:15):
know what you did? And I'm just like, no, no,
I don't know what I did. And at this point
I am so distraught. I think I'm like hyperventilating and crying.
I think I'm ugly crying. I think like snaw is
just bubbling out of my nose and I don't have
the wherewithal to demand answers. And I'm like, so that's it,
(12:36):
We're done here. You want me out? And they're like, yeah,
as of tonight, you are no longer affiliated with Alpha Kyomega.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
She was getting straight a's, she was on the student council,
She never done anything illegal, but Rose was out and
no one would tell her why.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
No one has ever told me?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And did you ever pursue it further?
Speaker 4 (13:02):
God, yes, for years? Like, hey guys, it's been five
years since we graduated college. I know this is kind
of weird, but I still think about it. Does anyone
want to tell me? I've like done the thing on
Facebook where I've like made the big Facebook post where
I'm like, all right, does everyone remember when Rose got
kicked out Alpha Kai, Like if you or anyone you
know has any information, like I'm still dying to know.
(13:23):
And then like dozens of my friends are like, oh,
I'm following this post. What was it?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
What was it?
Speaker 4 (13:27):
And still to this day, no answers and like you're
racking your brain. I'm like, did I get black out
drunk and sleep with someone's boyfriend?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Did you ever see any other of the sisters get
kicked out?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
No? No?
Speaker 4 (13:40):
And that's the thing is like, okay, let's not mince
words here, like was Rosea party girl? Yes? Were there
girls who were way worse than me?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
And did they get kicked out?
Speaker 6 (13:50):
Never?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Does Rose refer to herself in the third person? Yes?
Does you present the puzzling riddle? Absolutely? And with Jonathan
quit before solving it. Never. Rose's college memories have all
been tainted by that one day twelve years ago, But
her ex sorority sisters are now adult women in their thirties.
(14:13):
They had to be past the college drama. So after
Rose and I part I begin reaching out to them
for their help. Hey, Amanda, this is Jonathan Goldstein. I've
been trying to get in touch Anita. I was trying
to reach you there. Zoe, this is Jonathan Goldstein. We'll
speak soon, Claire. I phone them in their cars.
Speaker 4 (14:36):
Hi, Hey, I want to say I've got my daughter
walking into ballet class.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Short. No, of course, I phone them in their homes.
Do you have a minute to speak.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I do, I have a toddler.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
To say, you know, oh yeah, no, that's fine, hy on.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Sugar, because she just stole the bag of jellying. But yes, no,
I cannot pick you up. I'm not picking you up. No,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
But not one of Rosa's ex sorority sisters can tell
me why she'd been kicked out. Some say they don't remember,
it was so long ago. Others say they never knew why.
There were nearly one hundred women in Alpha Kai, but
only a handful had been in the room when Rose
was kicked out. One of these women was named Amber.
(15:24):
When I phone her, she's busy but tells me to
call back, So a few days later I do, Hey, Amber,
this is Jonathan Goldstein. I think we spoke briefly some
time ago.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I call back, and Amber apologizes for our being disconnected,
but when I ask her why Rose was kicked out again,
the line goes dead. This is odd odter Still is
a conversation with an Alpha Kai sister a year younger
than Rose. She says she inherited all the disciplinary documents
(16:00):
from Rose's year, but that one file was missing, the
one detailing why Rose had been kicked out. Things were
beginning to feel Kolludi. Hello, oh hey Rose, Hi. I
(16:24):
call Rose to update her, but it seems she's already
gotten wind of my doings.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
So I think you must have been reaching out to
a bunch of different members of Alpha Kai.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Word had started getting around on Facebook about some guy
snooping around on Rose's behalf. Quickly, a consensus was reached
shut this guy out.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Just the way that some of the girls were replying
in the thread, it just felt like twelve years hadn't
even passed.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And how do you mean?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
It was just like immediately this whole group dynamic took place,
and all of a sudden, instead of people acting like
mature adults who are in their thirties, it was this
whole like mom mentality of this is sketchy, we shouldn't respond.
And then everyone just started to follow in line and
be like, yeah it was sketchy. Yeah, I'm not gonna
call them.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna have to go over
their heads.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
How Alpha ky Omega Headquarters This is season.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
The Alpha Kai Omega National Headquarters is a large brick
building at the end of a long tree lined cool
de sac in Indianapolis, Indiana. It oversees all Alpha ky
Omega sororities across the country. Anytime a sorority kicks someone out,
it has to file a report with headquarters. I asked Susan,
the receptionist, if there might be documents that explain Rose's termination.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Okay, yes, I'm sure there are.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Okay, great? And in your experience, is this something that
comes up sometimes where people want to know why they
might have been kicked out of a so or Is
this unconnon?
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I would think most people would know why?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, what happened in her case? This?
Speaker 4 (18:14):
This is a.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Woman by the name of Rose Shapiro.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
And how do you spell her last name Shapiro?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I think it's must be spelled s h A s
H no s h A P s and Peter I
R O H.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Are you yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:50):
I did find her in here?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Does it?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Does it say anything with alongside her name?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I'm just looking at a status So you're.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So then there is some information alongside her name.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I'm not gonna because I mean, I can't say anything
about this. Remember, I wouldn't know her at all. And
you know, and you're an outsider, you're not the member.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Would if Rose Shapiro were to call you herself, would
she be able to find out the information?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I would think so sure.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Mm hm, Well we'll just have to see. After the break,
a couple of outsiders try to get some inside information.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Hey, Rose, Yes, Hi, Hi, how's.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
It going good? You ready to get some answers? I
tell Rose about my call with Susan the receptionist, and
we hatch a plan for contacting headquarters. I think I'll
call it and connect you and I'll just be quiet.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
All right, let's call. I'm ready. I'm ready for this.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Okay, I'm gonna call right now, Alpha Kyle Mega Headquarters
this season.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Hi, Susan, my name is Rose.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
And lying on my stomach on the floor of the
darkened studio, I finally feel like a real life popular
girl as I play with the phone cord and silently
nibble from a pan of brownies. Rose explains what happened.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Was ejected from Alpha Kai. I was a member of
Alpha ky Omega that Saya Sigma chapter.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Okay, and what's your name?
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Rose Shapiro?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Okay, all right, I'm gonna give you the Mendy tar water.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Okay, before you transfer, I did have just one more
question for you. Is there any way that you can
just tell from a general perspective if I'm considered as
a member in good standing or as a former member?
Is there even is there anyone?
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I think it's I think it says that you're not
in good standing. I wish I could help you, but
I don't know that obviously. Here Mendy is out this afternoon,
but she's working tomorrow. Why don't we leave a message
with Mendy. Sure, yeah, I think you should do that.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Rose leaves a message with this Mendy tar Water. When
she doesn't hear back. After a week, we call again.
Over the next month, we keep calling with Rose leaving
voicemails and me scraping weeks old brownie crust from the
pan while listening in for emotionals.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Okay, you're on Rose at the tone, Please record your message, Hei, Mandy,
my name.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Is Rose Susan. The receptionist passes her off to other
people at headquarters. Someone named Gina.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Let's try Gina. Hold on. Then someone named Eliza Eliza
Paine is not available to take your call. Please leave
a message after the tone.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Hi Eliza, this is Rose Shapiro. Trying you again.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
One morning, we phone, only to discover that Susan, the receptionist,
has been disappeared, possibly for saying too much.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
O Comega headquarters.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
This is Cynthia or.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Susan had the day off.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Hi Cynthia. My name is Rose Shapiro and I'm a
former member.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Cynthia. She sent Rose right back to Mendy Tarwater.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
Hi, Miny, this is Rose Shapiro. I'm the member.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
In the end, after months of phone calls, Rose finally
hears back from Alpha coy Omega headquarters. They pass along
a single document, a letter did April twenty first, two
thousand and five. The letter is brief, plainly stating that
Rose Shapiro resigned from Alpha Kyomega of her own accord.
(23:19):
They have no other information to share. We know now
definitely that the only way that we're going to get
anywhere with this is actually by finding a sorority girl
who was there and willing to talk.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Rose's confidence in me was waning. While she used to
drop everything for one of my updates, now she was
sounding bored and distracted. What are you doing right now?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
I'm cutting potatoes, Yeah, I'm cutting potatoes. I'm about to
make some mashed potatoes.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Okay, but the cut the chopping might not be so great.
Recorded fine, my calls were becoming a nuisance. Rose, What
are you cleaning out your fridge?
Speaker 5 (24:11):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I'm done.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I was starting to feel done too. I had nothing.
But a couple of weeks later, I get a call
from one of Rose's ex sorority sisters, a woman named Tricia. Initially,
Tricia hadn't been willing to talk, but over the months
she thought about it and had a change of heart.
(24:36):
I call Rose to share with her our good fortune.
As soon as you finished scrubbing all your cookie pants, I'm.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
Not scrubbing any pants, and I'm not chopping any potatoes.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
All right. So Tricia wasn't just any old sorority sister.
She was one of the six girls in the room
who kicked Rose out of Alpha Kai. And not only that,
Tricia and Rose joined Alpha Kai around the same time,
and people saw them as partners in crime, goofing at parties,
singing show tunes. Only they knew she was someone Rose
(25:08):
at legitimately liked and trusted. I explained to Rose that
since Tricia was the only person willing to speak to us,
she might be our last chance to get an answer,
So during the conversation, we'd need to tread lightly, and
I sense that treading lightly might not be Rose's strongest suit.
(25:30):
The situation required coaxing, possibly even some cajoling, and caution,
plenty of caution. We would need the perfect moment for
Rose to spring the question that's been gnawing at her
for years? Why did you kick me out? So I
decide that a code word is in order, a word
(25:51):
I can use to signal to Rose that the time
is right. I have plenty of experience with code words.
Dinner party going too late and I want people out
of my home. Medicine balls, I'll say to the misses,
and she'll produce a CD of my old spoken word
band mattress shopping and need to communicate my bottom line
while avoiding the prying ears of predatory mattress salesman. Medicine balls,
(26:16):
I'll say, So, every situation requires its own special code word,
and the hours I'd spend crafting this one had been
well worth it.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Okay, what's the code We're going.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
To be so okay? So I I was thinking maybe
medicine balls.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
No, that's so awkward to insert into the conversations.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, I scrambled together my list of Plan B code
words toilet bowl, toilet plunger, turkey, toilet, ou de toilette.
That's very Canadian about How about if I were to
say without a do or a don't? Is that something
that people say, Oh, I'd say. Well, for the better
part of an hour, Rose and I bat around ideas. Yes,
(27:01):
we have no tomatoes, boy, or my dog's barking. Some
people call me Maurice. Finally Rose is satisfied. How about
I say, and so it goes. That's what I'll show
and so it goes, and so it goes. Okay, I'm
writing that down. So that's gonna be our code word. Okay,
So when I say and so it goes, you're gonna say,
(27:22):
you know, Tricia, like what just what happened? We had
a plan, we had a code word. It was time
for another word from our sponsors. Hello, Hey, Tricia, Hey,
(27:55):
so I have I have Rose on the on the line.
I think you guys can hear each other.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Rose.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Hi. Hi.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
It's been years since they've spoken, So Rose and Tricia
catch up, but mostly they reminisce about homecoming, the big
talent show how they were both awarded Best New Sorority Member,
and they were like, we've.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Never done this before, but here you go.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. We did
die for best New Member.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
The conversation eventually turns to Roses cancer going into remission,
and that's when their memories diverge. According to Tricia, after
Rose was diagnosed as cancer free, she became a different
person and started to veer onto what Tricia calls a
bad past.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
I think you got angry, and not at certain people,
but just that like the situation at life.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
You know, I don't necessarily remember like an anger reaction.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
It's not like you were like pushing people down or
plunging them in the face. To me, I think that
what I perceived was like partying with frattorney, like drinking
a lot, like Yolo lifestyle, but also with like two
big metal fingers up. That's just like yo, no one's
gonna tell me what to do or how to live
(29:19):
my life.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
I just have a perception of myself that's like, oh
I be cancer, Like all bets are off, man, Like
now I get to do what I want, like I
did my time, Like now I'm like like if I
want to be drunk on a Tuesday, I deserve to
be drunk on a Tuesday, because hey, I just beat cancer.
Like like I think was there was you were.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Separating, the conversation was taking a turn from happy reminiscence
to battling perceptions of the past. Before things could escalate
any further, something needed to be said. I think and
and so and so it goes.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I think that.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Just Rose got the memo and was back on point.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I think for me, Trish, and like, I don't know
if you can understand this part of it getting kicked out,
like I had no idea was coming.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Yeah, I'm sorry, And I sincerely wish that I could
give you like a list of like this is what
it was, this is what it was, this is what
it was. I honestly like, can't.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I can't became a common refrain. Rose would ask why
she'd been kicked out, and Tricia would say she wants
to tell Rose, but she just can't. I can't talk
about it, can't get into it.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
Like I wish I could give you a specific sentence
of like at this Monty who said this, does that
make sense?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Like I don't know it.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Wasn't making sense to me, and I worried that it
wasn't making sense to Rose either, So I try to
clarify literally, like, I'm not sure whether it's a matter
of like you do know, but you feel an obligation
to kind of hold the secrets of the story all
these years later, Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (31:07):
Or yeah, no, I I and and maybe like I
would say.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
No, like was there some kind of oath or something
like that, or was it because you don't remember.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
Well, any CR meeting was like you're under oath. Everything
that happens in here stays in here. And so there
was a confidentiality, a big confidentiality piece to those meetings.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I get the feeling that Tricia and the rest of
her sisters still feel some obligation to protect the secrets
and reputation of an organization they joined in their twenties.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
This is I think the hardest thing was to think
of the health of the chapter as a whole, and
how maintaining the health of the whole thing sometimes hurts
like one or two people.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
By the end of the call, Rose had become uncharacteristically quiet.
So after we all say our goodbyes, I check back
in with her about how she felt the call went.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
I think it sounds like she has some memories, but
she's not sure where she picked them up or who
she's betraying. If she talked about them, She's always going
to believe and everyone else in that room is always
going to believe that there was something about my behavior
that was unbecoming to the image of the sorority. And
(32:29):
I mean, she almost called me a cancer. She almost
said like for the health of the organization, I had
to be removed. I don't think Truce is a bad person.
I really enjoyed reconnecting with her. I think she's a
cool girl. But ultimately, what I got from her is
that she doesn't think kicking me out with a mistake.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
For the next few weeks, I try to find someone,
anyone who might know why Rose was kicked out. I
phone people in the alumni office, in student relations, people
who weren't even in Rose's sorority, just on the long
shot they might have heard something. And then one day
I get a call back from Rick. Rick was Rose's
(33:10):
college boyfriend. They dated all through her illness, and when
we eventually spoke, there was something he told me that
seemed too strange to be a coincidence. Hey, Hi, how
are you?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Oh shit, I have to like drive through the bank.
Drive through right now, real quick.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Always a lot going on. After Rose is done with
her personal banking, I tell her the news. I phoned
up Rick. Okay, and one of the things though, that
he shared with me and I wonder, I mean, I
feel like you must know this though we've not ever
talked about it, is the fact that he was also
(33:56):
kicked out of his fraternity.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Holy shit, wait what yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Like at the time, he was also kicked out of
his fraternity.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
Of k kicked out Rick neatering ouse.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah. Rick was kicked out of his fraternity around the
same time as Rose was kicked out of Alpha Kai.
Just like Rose, Rick had been the only person kicked
out in years, and he never got an answer as
to why. But unlike Rose, Rick has a theory about it,
one that explains why both of them got kicked out.
I suggest to Rose that maybe it'd be a good
(34:35):
idea for her and Rick to talk.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yeah, we should make that happen. Hey, Jonathan, how are
you good.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I've got Rose here on the other line. Can you
guys hear each other?
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Hi, I can hear Rick, Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Rick's now a contractor. When I reach him, he's sitting
in his idling truck at a construction site. Not long
after their breakup, Rose graduated and moved out of Florida.
The two haven't spoken in years, and this is the
first time they've talked about and kicked out. Right away,
they start trading stories.
Speaker 7 (35:12):
Mine was just a phone call, and it was a
phone call from one of our brothers that was founding father, Chaz,
and just basically said, hey, you're you're done here.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
That is so insane. You were like the responsible one.
That's so insane.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Before they get to Rick's theory, the two of them
talk about old times, eventually winding their way back to
the days when they were a couple. When Rose was
diagnosed with cancer, Rick actually moved her into his apartment.
He drove her to doctor's appointments, cooked her meals. After
the pink ribbons had been sold and the fundraising had ended,
Rick was the one waiting at home to look after
(35:54):
her at her most sick and vulnerable. Do you remember
being were you scared at any point?
Speaker 6 (36:00):
Rick?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Like, do you fear that like Rose was gonna die.
Speaker 7 (36:03):
Of course.
Speaker 8 (36:04):
I mean, you hear the word cancer and that that's
obviously one of the things that you're going to think about.
You know, we had been dating for a little bit,
but it wasn't a great length of time before this
even happened. So you know, you take those feelings that
you have for somebody and I mean, you're still developing
a relationship and then all of a sudden I go
through and like, hey, you know you have cancer.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
So yeah, I mean the entire process is terrifying.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
It's terrifying. And I was like bald and my skin
was turning gray, and like there he was like going
to functions with me and being my boyfriend. And I
remember one time, I'm in the middle of chemo. I
am bald, I'm like not doing well, and we go
down to Daytona to watch the NASCAR event because it's
right around my birthday. It's the beginning of July. And
(36:49):
then this freak thunderstorm comes out of nowhere and the
temperature dropped like a crazy amount. It downpours, We get
completely soaked, and now there's like chemo, Rose is freezing.
I have no immune system I'm just like teeth chattering.
And so Rick took me over to the vendor area
and he bought me this like had to tell windbreaker
(37:10):
outfit of Darryl Earnhardt, juice. Do you remember that? I
do you look?
Speaker 7 (37:19):
You look like you pretty much belong.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
With that fan base.
Speaker 4 (37:22):
I looked like a twelve year old boy who was
sitting in the bleachers with like his older brother's cool friend.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
In spite of all they'd been through. Pretty quickly, after
her cancer went into remission, Rose broke up with Rick,
and although Rick was sad, he understood it.
Speaker 6 (37:42):
Rose needed to have some time to be able to
go and experience life.
Speaker 7 (37:52):
And so when that took place, her and I split,
and a.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Lot of people are like, oh, well, you know you
split because oh, she's in remission and it needs to
go and kind of live her life. Well that's kind
of a shit way of doing it, because I mean, hell,
didn't you take care of her?
Speaker 7 (38:06):
Yeah, But I mean she's got she's got to figure
herself out. We both got it, but we got it,
and nobody else really understood.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Which brings us to Rick's theory. Rick says that after
he and Rose broke up, people took sides. Rick's friends
were mad at Rose and Rose's friends were mad at Rick,
and each side started rumors about the other, and in
that fog of rumors, both of their good names were ruined.
It was like the breakup version of the Gift of
the Magi. And as they talk, something in Rick's theory
(38:50):
seems to click for Rose.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
Absolutely, that theory has never crossed my mind, Like I
am sure someone who felt close to Rick and thought
that maybe I had done him wrong or something could
have gotten blown out of proportion by people who felt
like defensive or protective on either side of that equation.
Speaker 9 (39:09):
Absolutely, I mean I remember, you know, people coming up
to me that were, I mean not even friends of mine,
going oh hey, I heard you and Rose split up,
and I heard she was cheating on you for two years.
Her was cheating on you for you know, the two
months before y'all split with another guy from PI Cap
You remember Trip, Oh yeah, he was the one kick
(39:34):
comes by my apartment one time.
Speaker 7 (39:36):
He's like, oh man, I walked into her apartment. She
was having sex with some dude on the stairs, on the.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Stairs, on the stairs. These rumors confirmed what a lot
of Ros's sorority sisters were beginning to think about her
after her cancer went into remission, that she was too wild,
too much of a partier. But how do you kick
out a poor, innocent cancer survivor from your sorority. It's
a lot easier if she's not so poor and innocent,
(40:03):
if she betrayed the loving boyfriend who saw her through
her illness. These rumors must have been just what the
sorority had been waiting for. It gave them the moral
high ground to get rid of her. So while Rose's
sorority sisters thought her cancer recovery had changed her, Rick
saw the experience as having changed her back to the
(40:23):
person she'd been before joining Alpha Kai.
Speaker 6 (40:26):
So when she started getting into Alpha Kai, I'm like, what,
Thank Really, you're.
Speaker 9 (40:32):
Gonna You're gonna go that route because that's that's not her.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Rose. Are you a Beatles fan?
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Rose had never heard the story of Pete Best. So
I explain how he was kicked out of the Beatles.
I tell her about all the different theories I'd heard
for why he was kicked out, the hair, the style.
But how lately, looking at old photos of the band
with Pete Best hunched in the background. It all seems
a lot simpler when you look at the old photographs
(41:11):
of those guys of the Beatles with Pete Best altogether,
Like he just doesn't look like a Beatle, you know,
And in the final analysis, it's sort of like, why
was he kicked out of the Beatles just because he
just kind of didn't seem like a Beatle.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
I get the analogy you're driving at here, and I
think you're right, Like, ultimately, I just wasn't an alpha kai.
I just wasn't like them. And I can't necessarily put
into words or a definition what made them similar and
made me different, But I just know that I was different.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Rose.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Have you ever considered, like, had you not gotten cancer,
that maybe they would have forced you out earlier?
Speaker 4 (41:56):
God?
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Probably.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
I think I was doing a really good job of
trying to assimilate early on, and I was like, oh,
my best behavior, but I think that like the real
me just kept like cracking out, and then once once
after going through the whole cancer thing, then it's like, uh,
let's not put on airs anymore. Like I am who
I am, and I was trying really hard to like
cram myself into that mold, and it just wasn't fitting,
(42:25):
Like it just wasn't working.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, Like I think, like in having spoken to quite
a few of your old sorority sisters, I mean none
of them sound like you. No, and I mean that.
I mean that in a nice way.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
No, I'm totally down with that. Like I'm a fucking
maniac and that's who I am, and I've come to
fully embrace that right now, Like I'm really cool with
who I am.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Well you know, I'm I'm I'm uh, I'm cool with
who you are. Also, thank you. Years after getting kicked
out of the Beatles, Pete Best said he was still
hopeful that maybe one day he'd find out why. Maybe
I'll run into Paul, he said, and we can talk
about it. If decades from now, Rose should run into
(43:15):
one of her sorority sisters, I hope she won't need
to talk about anything other than the weather or what
she's making for supper, and then she could say or
goodbyes and get back to chopping, banking and basically being
the maniac that she is.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Now that the furnitures returned to it's goodwill, Now that
the last month's rent is scheming with.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
The damage to po take this moment to sell.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
If we meant it, if we talk, we felt around
for far.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
From things that accidentally.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Rose.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
Yes, Hi, Hi, there's a siren going back.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I know there's always there's always so much going on
in your life. Let me start with the question that
probably everyone is curious about. Have you, in the intervening
years have you run into any of your sorority sisters.
Speaker 5 (45:00):
No.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
It was kind of a secret wish, like maybe someone
will hear the podcast and they'll finally fess up to
what was going on. Yeah, but I haven't like bumped
into one in town who told me like, oh, this
is what happened.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
It was also uh, as the kids would say, sus
it's a it's.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
A very insular world. And I think the biggest takeaway
I have from that whole sorority debacle is that, for
whatever reason, I didn't assimilate, And instead of being frustrated
by that, I've now kind of carried it like a
badge of honor. I'm not putting any energy trying to
fit a square peg into a round hoole these days.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Do you feel as though you've put something to rest?
Speaker 7 (45:41):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Yeah, yeah, it feels it feels very far away.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Now, what do you think that owes to maturity?
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Distance?
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Time?
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Time is the great interlock? Hutter? Absolutely, I could have
just stayed out of the way, basically, and just let
nature take its course, and it would have been just
as successful.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
I would have got here on my own.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
What are you drinking there?
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Some mint tea little herbal tea in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Wow, you've really become so mature.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Yeah, I've mellowed out a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah. Hey, can I ask you a question? Does Rose
still refer to herself and the third person.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
Jonathan?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Not as much?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Not as much.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
I gotta admit I should bring it back.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Rose should Yeah?
Speaker 4 (46:30):
Rose likes this suggestion.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
There we go. How did that feel?
Speaker 7 (46:35):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (46:36):
A little uncomfortable?
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah. Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together.
We'll be back next week with another Encore presentation and
along with it, another update from our guest.
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