November 1, 2022 • 26 mins
Malcolm's friend, actress/writer/director/producer Lake Bell, is obsessed with voice. Malcolm is a little obsessed with Lake. This excerpt from Lake's new Pushkin audiobook Inside Voice: My Obsession with HowWe Sound, showcases Lake and Malcolm's conversation about the phenomenon of the sexy baby voice (think Paris Hilton or any Real Housewife). Inside Voice is a deep dive into what our voices mean and what they say about us. Go buy yourself a copy at insidevoiceaudiobook.com, Audible, Apple Books, Spotify, or anywhere audiobooks are sold.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, Hello, Revisionist history listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, Revisionist history listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
History Listeners, Hello, Hello, Revisionist History Listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
That didn't sound quite right, did it. It's got to
be more like this. Hello, Hello, Revisionist History Listeners. I'm
quite grateful that our loyal fans like the sound of
my voice. But why is that? My dear friend, The actress, director, writer,
producer Lake Bell is obsessed with people's voices, and frankly,
I'm a little obsessed with Lake. So it made sense
(00:52):
for Lake to join Pushkin's ranks with her new audiobook,
Inside Voice. The book is a deep dive into what
our voices mean and what they say about us. Lake
explores the psychology and social science of voice. She talks
with icons like Drew Barrymore, Jeff gold Bloom, and Pam Greer.
And when she started questioning herself, she talked to me
(01:14):
she was struggling with how to write about the phenomenon
of the sexy baby voice. How could she enjoy and
respect Paris Hilton. They're Kardashians and various flavors of real housewives,
all sexy babies, but definitively absolutely not want her own
daughter to grow up to be one. It made her
feel like a judgmental jerk. So I was the shrink
(01:38):
and Lake got on the couch and we had fun
working through that one. I may even have tried to
put on a little sexy baby voice myself. Enjoy this
sample chapter and then go buy yourself a copy at
Inside Voice, audiobook dot Com, Audible, Spotify, or anywhere audiobooks
are sold. I'll be back before year's end with some
(01:58):
bonus episodes of revisionist history.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
When you guys think of like a strong woman's voice,
what does that sound like? Someone just like fluent and confident?
Anyone come to mind? Michelle Obama? Yeah, I think just
arian because she's been very advocated for the God is
a woman thing.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So I'm just like Ariana Grande Queen Latifah.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I would have to say, Michelle Obama.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Kirsty Ally, I think has a very deep, powerful voice.
My mom, Yeah, my mom for sure, Yeah, my mom.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Oprah the same here, I would go, I agree with
that one.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oprah Dafan the Oprah Okay. Lena Horn, yeah, speaking voice too. Yeah,
Lena Horn is my wife. My life is stronger and
I really love her and I proud for you. What
about an alluring sexy female voice? Jennifer Aniston, Angelina, Jolie.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Kerrie Washington.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Oh that was good, Angelina, Jolie Coobe, Siri.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I think Siri? Yeah maybe, Oh you could be different.
See boys, I don't know. I just think of Catwoman.
When I think of a sexy woman, I'm like Catwoman.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Kim Kardashian.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So your turn. When you think of a strong woman,
what does she sound like? Does she sound like this?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
We want people who are redefining what it means to
be strong, to be powerful, to be inspirational, to be aspirational, to.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Be astoundingly aged, defying or does she sound like this?
Kylie called Chloe and said, Hey, I want to take
over your party. Just send me the list. Three seconds later,
Chloe text me, did you tell Kylie about the parties?
And I don't know what are you talking about? What party?
(04:12):
Make no mistake, both of these women are powerful. Another test,
when you think of a sexy woman, what does she
sound like? Does she sound like this?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Isn't this a coincidence?
Speaker 5 (04:23):
I know you you're the one that doesn't like to
talk about the heat too bad.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I tell you about my.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Child, or does she sound like this? I like Barnette's
sexy voice and laugh a lot. I kind of like
that he gave off a vibe that he was a player.
One of the more questionable, nay controversial trends to come
(04:49):
out of gen Z is the sexy baby voice. What
is that you say? Let me remind you my evening's
going amazing because I have a ruse.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I like was gone for a whole week and still
all we can talk about is Crystal.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
All we can think about is Crystal.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I like, don't want to make this a.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Night about to honor and kick off this discussion. Here
is a never before seen and heard scene from My
Future in a World, a film that I wrote, directed
and start in entirely about the voiceover industry, because, as
we've already established, I'm clearly obsessed. This deleted scene depicts
my character Carol, trying to coach a sexy baby into
(05:34):
finding her true sound.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Roll it.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
So when he told you here's writing a book where
you just like, holy shit, that's amaze balls.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Can I do a vocal experiment on you? Why?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Because that's a weird question to ask.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I don't even know you Carol, you were just interviewing me.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Still weird.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
I'm a vocal coach, I'm a writer.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Be good for the story.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Fine, fine, okay, good. So you're just gonna count a ten,
but when you get to the odd numbers, you're gonna
use the lowest point in your register, and when you
get to the even numbers, you're gonna use the highest
point in your register. And then right after you're just
gonna speak without thinking. So you're gonna go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, hey,
(06:24):
nine ten.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Here's my voice.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
One two, three, four, five, six seven nine ten.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Here's my voice. Oh my god. Right, that's so weird.
It sounds lower, and it sounds.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
A mass pulse.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Let's make something crystal clear before we delve into the
sexy baby zone, which is also a no judgment zone.
This is a safe place to regard and appreciate a
unique cultural phenomenon. In fact, I have long been inspired
and in awe of this vocal trend and seek to
(07:16):
focus on it through a cultural lens. What factors brought
it into the American English language in the first place,
and how did it evolve over time for any one person.
In my formative years, it was Paris Hilton. I thought
she was extraordinary, hilarious, awesome, larger than life, and there
(07:40):
was something really special there. Sure, much of the allure
was the outfits and the status, but there was something
unique about Paris that nobody else could quite emulate. Nobody
could get to that level of her stardom. Why the voice?
She captured the world with a voice that broadcasted both
(08:05):
little girl submission and overt sexuality concurrently unfathomable feat or
was it?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I just have like a drive inside of me, like
I love creating, I love doing what I do.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I love making people happy, and I love making money.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Paris, thanks so much for being here. I appreciate I
know that he waves been crazy. It was like ninety
seven degrees.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Of a day.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
That's hot.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Did you see that.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Ross and Rachel might be dating a real life that's hot?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
How would you pronounce Vin Hart's last name in a
British accent?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
That's hot? It is hot? And yet I want to
admit that I struggle. Okay, there's a struggle here. If
my personal cultural north star is creating space for a
female vocal sound to imbue trustworthiness, all knowing electable authority,
(09:02):
then how does the rampant trend of the sexy baby
voice impact that effort? I mean, I can admit that
I enjoy the wildly moorish entertainment provided by the Audis
Paris Hilton, the storm that is, the Kardashians and every
(09:23):
Real housewives of whatever the fuck they're all flooded with
sexy babies. But here's the kicker. Do I want my
daughter to grow up and speak like that? The answer
is hell no. And see now I feel bad. Now,
I feel like some judgmental jerk. I'm genuinely in an
(09:45):
existential crisis on this issue. So I opted to phone
a friend. But not just any friend. I needed a
deep thinker who also happened to be a best selling author,
a public speaker type that the whole world has stamped
an authority on unpacking big and controversial ideas. So I
turned to the iconic public speaker, best selling author of
(10:08):
multiple zeitgeist making books like The Tipping Point and Outliers,
among others, and of course, founder of Pushkin Industries. That's right,
Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm has been hearing about my deep seated
sexy baby struggle four years at this point, and Frankly,
he's the only person who can flip the script and
(10:29):
interrogate me on this very issue that I myself have
brought to the proverbial table.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Wait wait, okay, hold up, there'd be much more specific
and break it down. First of all, we have these
elements that you've identified. Are they all equally important or
are they they they all play You can't rank them.
You can't say, sexy baby is sixty percent, this, twenty percent?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
This, No, it's a cocktail.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It's a cocktail. Okay, number one, the vocal fright.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I would say number one, pitch.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Pitch.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Okay, I would go straight to pitch, because first you've
gotta this is very hard for me to do, is
to kind of dial in because I enjoy kind of
putting all cocktail together because it's like once you have
a martini, it's like you always want the mix. So
if I can just get the pitch, it's so we're here,
(11:19):
and I'm already starting to fry a little bit, but
I'm trying not to so that I can just take pitch.
This is pitch. So this is like if I were
to be talking to you in an intellectual way, but
I'm just pitched up.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay, yes, now then you layer on that. Now, by
the way, do you ever we're not talking about Sexy Baby,
We're talking about Lake Bell. Hi. Do you ever operate
in that pitch?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Never?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Never?
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Okay, yeah, even a a in a sexual encounter, if
I may, I do not find myself pitching up to
that level or because that's the only time I could think.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Sorry, very revealing.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
When you spoke to your children when they were babies,
did you go off that h No, oh you did.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
No. I would never go this high for anything. But
first of all, it's you know, it's athletic. That's one
of the things about Sexy Baby is that it's like
hard to do, like you have to work hard at it.
It is an athletic.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Feat layer in the next thing.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
The next thing would be fry. And I'm guilty of
a little fry here and there. I think we all are.
We have a sprinkle of fry. You know, it's like
a cultural trend. It's like skinny jeans. You know, it's in,
and then we all kind of adopt it and we
don't even notice. So notice, no, you know, I got
a little there. So when you have this and then
(12:43):
you start adding in the fry, So.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Teach me how to do fry. Assume I've never heard
of it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Again, I'm not a professional, but I will say the
fry is a croak. It's in the back of your throat,
so you're gonna roll it kind of like you're a frog.
So closer. So so give me like a like why,
(13:12):
like why close?
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I'm getting there.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
The thing is, you have some you have some, take
some water, you have some. You're swallowing it, so you're going, ah,
you're getting stuck in a tightness in your throat versus
like forward opening it up.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Just a.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Getting in. I don't know how to form a word
with that.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Too, like why why?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Why? Why? Wait? Do that? Do?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Like why? Ah?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You see?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So like why no you don't the fry in the uptalk?
Is there a place in the sentence where those two
things operate. So we're always in the upper register, So
pitch is a constant, but we're not frying everything.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Uh, fry is like seasoning. You can't fry all the
way through or else you would just have a croak sound.
So fry is really kind of like there's a dance there. So,
for instance, in my normal speech, I would say, for instance,
and that's a plateau. We're just like on a road
going forward. For instance, is obviously a classic up talk
(14:31):
with a little sprinkle of fry and pitch up.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
What work is fry doing? Is it comic? Is it
for emphasis?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I think it comes from a place of like sex.
This is part of the sexy flavor of spice, because
I think when I've interviewed people, Hey, you know what's
the most alluring sexy voice in a woman? It tends
to be croakier voices. It tends to be smokier voices.
And whether they're high voices or low voices, they all
(14:59):
seem to have that element in them.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And it's paradoxical because it's a smoky kind of guttural
thing that's taking place at a very high Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, I'm trying to think of like men who fry,
because there's a ton of men who fry as well.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
You know who fries? Who fries? Henry Kissinger, he fries. Yeah,
but it's a it's a kind of German.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Fry, a Truman fry.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
No, it's a kind of like but it is the
friendship upset.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Yeah, I will mistake anything on the proposition that before
the end of this year, Goebachev will be in Washington,
and I'll take only a little lesson the proposition that
before the end of next year President Reagan will be
in Moscow.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
But wait, you did something else and Sexy Baby that
you haven't talked about, which is you were also running
some words together.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So that's the that is quality. So yeah, that's a
little I will say that kind of creeps into performance
a little bit to help me get in there, you know,
just as an actor and as a performer, for instance,
with accents, I have either a hand jester or you know,
a catchphrase to get you into an accent, like Irish
is pulled Bach on the bull on the bout. I
(16:14):
don't know if I'll ever need to put anything in
a bucket, but in an Irish accent probably you know
what I mean. So like that's like my in there.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
In my experience with hearing Sexy Baby in the wild, Yes,
in there, sentences without spaces. Imagine typing a set. Yeah,
there's no punctuation, there's no punctuation whatsoever. It's that that
irritates me.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And like what really bothers me about climate change or whatever?
Is that like we're now working together, and like if
we could just like work together, like you didn't meet,
so much more of our power together and like that
for me is just like swim we're it, meaning we're it.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
If I was like an oil company and I wanted
to really get people to be skeptical of climate change,
I would just run of what you just said.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
That's here's the yell. Drying a car like gas or
whatever is like just like American.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But there's so there's there's that running together, and then
there's also a little bit of slurring that you're adding.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
There's no you're right, there's like a little bit of sorry,
I think that I just want to say something that's
really important. It's just like it doesn't mean you're not smart.
The accent and the dialect. Why I have a bone
to pick with it is because like I am a
feminist and like I don't want to think of women
as little sexy babies that can't think for themselves, and
(17:47):
so it's really hard for me. I really think of
it as a trend that's gotten out of control. You know,
it was kind of cute for a beat. It was
in a movie or two, you know, and there was
a kind of a texture of sound that was born
(18:07):
from the California a surfer girl community, valley esque environment.
But I do think that that compounded with the history
like before that, where did it come from? It's like, okay,
there's Betty Boop, And I think that Betty Boop is
a good place to start just as a reference, because
(18:27):
it's very distinct. She is sexualized, she's not homely, the
ideas that she's alluring.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
But there's no fry in Betty Boop.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Boo, No, there's not. There's not. Betty Boop is kind
of the original sexy baby though, just as a concept.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That's the where the archetype comes from.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, boo do do boop boop be doop.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
But there's been a great deal of linguistic innovation, yes,
between then, and how does Marilyn Monroe fit into this evolution?
That's breathiness, is it?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah? But she also is broadcasting a bedroom voice, so
why I just don't know, and a little baby voice
but you know, oh well listen, peaky. You know that's
very high pitched. So you've got the grounds there for
that starting place, which is we didn't really get the
(19:21):
breathiness in the sexy baby voice. But we got that pitch,
you know, and that alluring sexy nature of bedroom talk
that's like outward and being exposed to everyone. I mean,
that was her whole thing. So that's why I have
the word sexy in it.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's super interesting because if we think of Paris Hilton
and Kim Kardashian as people who are taking the intimacy
of the sex tape and kind of taking it public,
Marilyn Monroe's famous Happy Birthday sung to JFK when she
was presumably in the middle of having an affair with
(19:58):
is the same thing, right. I mean, she's essentially saying,
I'm having an affair with this guy. Right, That's the
whole point of the happy Birthday thing, is this is
the way we are when we're in bed together, and
I'm doing it in front of the entire country. It's
like such an incredible like it's like this, fuck you
first of all to Jackie. I mean, it's just but
it's an extraordinary it is an extraordinary cultural moment.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Day to you.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Happy birthday.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
So Paris Hilm comes along in the aughts, right, talking
like this, and it becomes a kind of sensation and
it proves quite culturally contagious, and I'm wondering why why
would the sexy baby voice come back at that moment.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
It boils down to sex tapes, kind of like the
women that we're talking about. If we're going to bring
up Paris and Kim, they both had that right. They
had a sex tape that was leaked. And by the way,
speaking of another classic voice and a sex tape, pamel Anderson.
Now that voice, you know, is effective, and so I
(21:12):
feel like there's something there where it's like taking the
bedroom voice and broadcasting it and allowing for that intimacy
to be a part of the brand. Rhymestones. There's no
such thing as too many rhinestones, because it's hot to
bling as much as possible.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
You have complicated feelings about sexy Baby, which I want
to kind of dig into a little bit. You've alluded
to them here and there, but you have a sexy
baby problem.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I have unwelcome judgment in my views on it because
even in Penning in a World, it was part of
the you know, sort of joke of it was, what
is this trend, this plague that is infecting our women?
And it felt like regression. It felt not like progress
(22:05):
just on a feminist bent. It is a sound that
parkens Our ears back to a time when you are
a child, when you have to ask for things, you
don't have agency, And so why is that sound? A
submissive little girl sound somehow sexy. All of a sudden,
(22:27):
I had a bone to pick with that. You started
to see women who were in their forties have great jobs,
their lawyers, their CEO or whatever, and they started to
have this sound. And that's where I got confused and
upset because I thought, Okay, so you're saying, especially as
a mother, society is allowing for or supporting this idea
(22:50):
that women can sound like little girls and be leaders.
And that for me was difficult because I don't want
my daughter to think that that's how you're supposed to sound.
I don't want my son to think that women should
sound that way. And I feel bad for feeling uncomfortable
because I think that women should sound. However, the dam this.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Is why I don't understand. I don't understand why you
feel bad about being uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Because I'm a woman. We feel badly for judging other women.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
But hold on the argument that you're making in your book,
is that a lot of the way we sound is
a choice. So women, a certain group of women have
chosen either consciously or unconsciously, to sound this way. They
don't have to sound this way, right, They have options. Yes,
(23:38):
our voice is our own. We control the way we sound.
And you're simply saying that's a bad choice or a
problematic choice.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You are saying that I should feel comfortable with feeling uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yes, well, I'm wondering why you're so conflicted about the
fact that you find this voice to be an issue.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Okay, So because, for instance, I have a pal let's
call her RS, and she has a very high pitched voice,
naturally off the truck. Okay, So she's not putting it on.
She just has that voice. I love her. She's so sweet.
(24:20):
She's got a little fry then a little uptalk. But
she's a mom of three, she works hard, and I
just know her. And so it's people like that where
I go. I know she's not putting it on. I
also understand that she's probably not a vocally obsessed person
and isn't thinking about it so much. And so when
(24:43):
you say it's a choice, I concur that it is
a choice. Once you listen to it, and once you're
aware of it and you're in the room with it.
But I think that it's important in my research on
this to allow for there to be space for that's
just how they speak, but when it's something that's like
(25:03):
plaguing someone and they're kind of using it as a tool,
especially when it comes to a woman of a certain
age who's imbuing this sound that's of a young woman.
You know, I think in our voices, let's own it.
Let's own it that it's sexy to sound your age,
(25:25):
or it's sexy to sound like a mature woman.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I know that's not their natural sound, especially after giving
birth twice. Your voice changes after birth, you know it should.
It's a it's an experience, but also chemically, hormonally, your
voice changes, and that's a privilege. Aging is a privilege.
So own it.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
That was an excerpt from Lake Bell's Inner Voice, which
is a delight. Go get your copy today at Inside Voice,
audiobook dot Com, Audible, Spotify, and everywhere audiobooks are sold.
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, Hello, Revisionist history listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, Revisionist history listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
History Listeners, Hello, Hello, Revisionist History Listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
That didn't sound quite right, did it. It's got to
be more like this. Hello, Hello, Revisionist History Listeners. I'm
quite grateful that our loyal fans like the sound of
my voice. But why is that? My dear friend, The actress, director, writer,
producer Lake Bell is obsessed with people's voices, and frankly,
I'm a little obsessed with Lake. So it made sense
(00:52):
for Lake to join Pushkin's ranks with her new audiobook,
Inside Voice. The book is a deep dive into what
our voices mean and what they say about us. Lake
explores the psychology and social science of voice. She talks
with icons like Drew Barrymore, Jeff gold Bloom, and Pam Greer.
And when she started questioning herself, she talked to me
(01:14):
she was struggling with how to write about the phenomenon
of the sexy baby voice. How could she enjoy and
respect Paris Hilton. They're Kardashians and various flavors of real housewives,
all sexy babies, but definitively absolutely not want her own
daughter to grow up to be one. It made her
feel like a judgmental jerk. So I was the shrink
(01:38):
and Lake got on the couch and we had fun
working through that one. I may even have tried to
put on a little sexy baby voice myself. Enjoy this
sample chapter and then go buy yourself a copy at
Inside Voice, audiobook dot Com, Audible, Spotify, or anywhere audiobooks
are sold. I'll be back before year's end with some
(01:58):
bonus episodes of revisionist history.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
When you guys think of like a strong woman's voice,
what does that sound like? Someone just like fluent and confident?
Anyone come to mind? Michelle Obama? Yeah, I think just
arian because she's been very advocated for the God is
a woman thing.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So I'm just like Ariana Grande Queen Latifah.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I would have to say, Michelle Obama.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Kirsty Ally, I think has a very deep, powerful voice.
My mom, Yeah, my mom for sure, Yeah, my mom.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Oprah the same here, I would go, I agree with
that one.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oprah Dafan the Oprah Okay. Lena Horn, yeah, speaking voice too. Yeah,
Lena Horn is my wife. My life is stronger and
I really love her and I proud for you. What
about an alluring sexy female voice? Jennifer Aniston, Angelina, Jolie.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Kerrie Washington.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Oh that was good, Angelina, Jolie Coobe, Siri.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I think Siri? Yeah maybe, Oh you could be different.
See boys, I don't know. I just think of Catwoman.
When I think of a sexy woman, I'm like Catwoman.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Kim Kardashian.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So your turn. When you think of a strong woman,
what does she sound like? Does she sound like this?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
We want people who are redefining what it means to
be strong, to be powerful, to be inspirational, to be aspirational, to.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Be astoundingly aged, defying or does she sound like this?
Kylie called Chloe and said, Hey, I want to take
over your party. Just send me the list. Three seconds later,
Chloe text me, did you tell Kylie about the parties?
And I don't know what are you talking about? What party?
(04:12):
Make no mistake, both of these women are powerful. Another test,
when you think of a sexy woman, what does she
sound like? Does she sound like this?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Isn't this a coincidence?
Speaker 5 (04:23):
I know you you're the one that doesn't like to
talk about the heat too bad.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I tell you about my.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Child, or does she sound like this? I like Barnette's
sexy voice and laugh a lot. I kind of like
that he gave off a vibe that he was a player.
One of the more questionable, nay controversial trends to come
(04:49):
out of gen Z is the sexy baby voice. What
is that you say? Let me remind you my evening's
going amazing because I have a ruse.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I like was gone for a whole week and still
all we can talk about is Crystal.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
All we can think about is Crystal.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I like, don't want to make this a.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Night about to honor and kick off this discussion. Here
is a never before seen and heard scene from My
Future in a World, a film that I wrote, directed
and start in entirely about the voiceover industry, because, as
we've already established, I'm clearly obsessed. This deleted scene depicts
my character Carol, trying to coach a sexy baby into
(05:34):
finding her true sound.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Roll it.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
So when he told you here's writing a book where
you just like, holy shit, that's amaze balls.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Can I do a vocal experiment on you? Why?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Why not?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Because that's a weird question to ask.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I don't even know you Carol, you were just interviewing me.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Still weird.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
I'm a vocal coach, I'm a writer.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Be good for the story.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Fine, fine, okay, good. So you're just gonna count a ten,
but when you get to the odd numbers, you're gonna
use the lowest point in your register, and when you
get to the even numbers, you're gonna use the highest
point in your register. And then right after you're just
gonna speak without thinking. So you're gonna go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, hey,
(06:24):
nine ten.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Here's my voice.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
One two, three, four, five, six seven nine ten.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
Here's my voice. Oh my god. Right, that's so weird.
It sounds lower, and it sounds.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
A mass pulse.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Let's make something crystal clear before we delve into the
sexy baby zone, which is also a no judgment zone.
This is a safe place to regard and appreciate a
unique cultural phenomenon. In fact, I have long been inspired
and in awe of this vocal trend and seek to
(07:16):
focus on it through a cultural lens. What factors brought
it into the American English language in the first place,
and how did it evolve over time for any one person.
In my formative years, it was Paris Hilton. I thought
she was extraordinary, hilarious, awesome, larger than life, and there
(07:40):
was something really special there. Sure, much of the allure
was the outfits and the status, but there was something
unique about Paris that nobody else could quite emulate. Nobody
could get to that level of her stardom. Why the voice?
She captured the world with a voice that broadcasted both
(08:05):
little girl submission and overt sexuality concurrently unfathomable feat or
was it?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I just have like a drive inside of me, like
I love creating, I love doing what I do.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I love making people happy, and I love making money.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Paris, thanks so much for being here. I appreciate I
know that he waves been crazy. It was like ninety
seven degrees.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Of a day.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
That's hot.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Did you see that.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Ross and Rachel might be dating a real life that's hot?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
How would you pronounce Vin Hart's last name in a
British accent?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
That's hot? It is hot? And yet I want to
admit that I struggle. Okay, there's a struggle here. If
my personal cultural north star is creating space for a
female vocal sound to imbue trustworthiness, all knowing electable authority,
(09:02):
then how does the rampant trend of the sexy baby
voice impact that effort? I mean, I can admit that
I enjoy the wildly moorish entertainment provided by the Audis
Paris Hilton, the storm that is, the Kardashians and every
(09:23):
Real housewives of whatever the fuck they're all flooded with
sexy babies. But here's the kicker. Do I want my
daughter to grow up and speak like that? The answer
is hell no. And see now I feel bad. Now,
I feel like some judgmental jerk. I'm genuinely in an
(09:45):
existential crisis on this issue. So I opted to phone
a friend. But not just any friend. I needed a
deep thinker who also happened to be a best selling author,
a public speaker type that the whole world has stamped
an authority on unpacking big and controversial ideas. So I
turned to the iconic public speaker, best selling author of
(10:08):
multiple zeitgeist making books like The Tipping Point and Outliers,
among others, and of course, founder of Pushkin Industries. That's right,
Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm has been hearing about my deep seated
sexy baby struggle four years at this point, and Frankly,
he's the only person who can flip the script and
(10:29):
interrogate me on this very issue that I myself have
brought to the proverbial table.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Wait wait, okay, hold up, there'd be much more specific
and break it down. First of all, we have these
elements that you've identified. Are they all equally important or
are they they they all play You can't rank them.
You can't say, sexy baby is sixty percent, this, twenty percent?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
This, No, it's a cocktail.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It's a cocktail. Okay, number one, the vocal fright.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I would say number one, pitch.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Pitch.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Okay, I would go straight to pitch, because first you've
gotta this is very hard for me to do, is
to kind of dial in because I enjoy kind of
putting all cocktail together because it's like once you have
a martini, it's like you always want the mix. So
if I can just get the pitch, it's so we're here,
(11:19):
and I'm already starting to fry a little bit, but
I'm trying not to so that I can just take pitch.
This is pitch. So this is like if I were
to be talking to you in an intellectual way, but
I'm just pitched up.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay, yes, now then you layer on that. Now, by
the way, do you ever we're not talking about Sexy Baby,
We're talking about Lake Bell. Hi. Do you ever operate
in that pitch?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Never?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Never?
Speaker 5 (11:47):
Okay, yeah, even a a in a sexual encounter, if
I may, I do not find myself pitching up to
that level or because that's the only time I could think.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Sorry, very revealing.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
When you spoke to your children when they were babies,
did you go off that h No, oh you did.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
No. I would never go this high for anything. But
first of all, it's you know, it's athletic. That's one
of the things about Sexy Baby is that it's like
hard to do, like you have to work hard at it.
It is an athletic.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Feat layer in the next thing.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
The next thing would be fry. And I'm guilty of
a little fry here and there. I think we all are.
We have a sprinkle of fry. You know, it's like
a cultural trend. It's like skinny jeans. You know, it's in,
and then we all kind of adopt it and we
don't even notice. So notice, no, you know, I got
a little there. So when you have this and then
(12:43):
you start adding in the fry, So.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Teach me how to do fry. Assume I've never heard
of it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Again, I'm not a professional, but I will say the
fry is a croak. It's in the back of your throat,
so you're gonna roll it kind of like you're a frog.
So closer. So so give me like a like why,
(13:12):
like why close?
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I'm getting there.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
The thing is, you have some you have some, take
some water, you have some. You're swallowing it, so you're going, ah,
you're getting stuck in a tightness in your throat versus
like forward opening it up.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Just a.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Getting in. I don't know how to form a word
with that.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Too, like why why?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Why? Why? Wait? Do that? Do?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Like why? Ah?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You see?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So like why no you don't the fry in the uptalk?
Is there a place in the sentence where those two
things operate. So we're always in the upper register, So
pitch is a constant, but we're not frying everything.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Uh, fry is like seasoning. You can't fry all the
way through or else you would just have a croak sound.
So fry is really kind of like there's a dance there. So,
for instance, in my normal speech, I would say, for instance,
and that's a plateau. We're just like on a road
going forward. For instance, is obviously a classic up talk
(14:31):
with a little sprinkle of fry and pitch up.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
What work is fry doing? Is it comic? Is it
for emphasis?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I think it comes from a place of like sex.
This is part of the sexy flavor of spice, because
I think when I've interviewed people, Hey, you know what's
the most alluring sexy voice in a woman? It tends
to be croakier voices. It tends to be smokier voices.
And whether they're high voices or low voices, they all
(14:59):
seem to have that element in them.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And it's paradoxical because it's a smoky kind of guttural
thing that's taking place at a very high Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, I'm trying to think of like men who fry,
because there's a ton of men who fry as well.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
You know who fries? Who fries? Henry Kissinger, he fries. Yeah,
but it's a it's a kind of German.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Fry, a Truman fry.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
No, it's a kind of like but it is the
friendship upset.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
Yeah, I will mistake anything on the proposition that before
the end of this year, Goebachev will be in Washington,
and I'll take only a little lesson the proposition that
before the end of next year President Reagan will be
in Moscow.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
But wait, you did something else and Sexy Baby that
you haven't talked about, which is you were also running
some words together.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So that's the that is quality. So yeah, that's a
little I will say that kind of creeps into performance
a little bit to help me get in there, you know,
just as an actor and as a performer, for instance,
with accents, I have either a hand jester or you know,
a catchphrase to get you into an accent, like Irish
is pulled Bach on the bull on the bout. I
(16:14):
don't know if I'll ever need to put anything in
a bucket, but in an Irish accent probably you know
what I mean. So like that's like my in there.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
In my experience with hearing Sexy Baby in the wild, Yes,
in there, sentences without spaces. Imagine typing a set. Yeah,
there's no punctuation, there's no punctuation whatsoever. It's that that
irritates me.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And like what really bothers me about climate change or whatever?
Is that like we're now working together, and like if
we could just like work together, like you didn't meet,
so much more of our power together and like that
for me is just like swim we're it, meaning we're it.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
If I was like an oil company and I wanted
to really get people to be skeptical of climate change,
I would just run of what you just said.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
That's here's the yell. Drying a car like gas or
whatever is like just like American.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
But there's so there's there's that running together, and then
there's also a little bit of slurring that you're adding.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
There's no you're right, there's like a little bit of sorry,
I think that I just want to say something that's
really important. It's just like it doesn't mean you're not smart.
The accent and the dialect. Why I have a bone
to pick with it is because like I am a
feminist and like I don't want to think of women
as little sexy babies that can't think for themselves, and
(17:47):
so it's really hard for me. I really think of
it as a trend that's gotten out of control. You know,
it was kind of cute for a beat. It was
in a movie or two, you know, and there was
a kind of a texture of sound that was born
(18:07):
from the California a surfer girl community, valley esque environment.
But I do think that that compounded with the history
like before that, where did it come from? It's like, okay,
there's Betty Boop, And I think that Betty Boop is
a good place to start just as a reference, because
(18:27):
it's very distinct. She is sexualized, she's not homely, the
ideas that she's alluring.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
But there's no fry in Betty Boop.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Boo, No, there's not. There's not. Betty Boop is kind
of the original sexy baby though, just as a concept.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That's the where the archetype comes from.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, boo do do boop boop be doop.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
But there's been a great deal of linguistic innovation, yes,
between then, and how does Marilyn Monroe fit into this evolution?
That's breathiness, is it?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah? But she also is broadcasting a bedroom voice, so
why I just don't know, and a little baby voice
but you know, oh well listen, peaky. You know that's
very high pitched. So you've got the grounds there for
that starting place, which is we didn't really get the
(19:21):
breathiness in the sexy baby voice. But we got that pitch,
you know, and that alluring sexy nature of bedroom talk
that's like outward and being exposed to everyone. I mean,
that was her whole thing. So that's why I have
the word sexy in it.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
It's super interesting because if we think of Paris Hilton
and Kim Kardashian as people who are taking the intimacy
of the sex tape and kind of taking it public,
Marilyn Monroe's famous Happy Birthday sung to JFK when she
was presumably in the middle of having an affair with
(19:58):
is the same thing, right. I mean, she's essentially saying,
I'm having an affair with this guy. Right, That's the
whole point of the happy Birthday thing, is this is
the way we are when we're in bed together, and
I'm doing it in front of the entire country. It's
like such an incredible like it's like this, fuck you
first of all to Jackie. I mean, it's just but
it's an extraordinary it is an extraordinary cultural moment.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Day to you.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Happy birthday.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
So Paris Hilm comes along in the aughts, right, talking
like this, and it becomes a kind of sensation and
it proves quite culturally contagious, and I'm wondering why why
would the sexy baby voice come back at that moment.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
It boils down to sex tapes, kind of like the
women that we're talking about. If we're going to bring
up Paris and Kim, they both had that right. They
had a sex tape that was leaked. And by the way,
speaking of another classic voice and a sex tape, pamel Anderson.
Now that voice, you know, is effective, and so I
(21:12):
feel like there's something there where it's like taking the
bedroom voice and broadcasting it and allowing for that intimacy
to be a part of the brand. Rhymestones. There's no
such thing as too many rhinestones, because it's hot to
bling as much as possible.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
You have complicated feelings about sexy Baby, which I want
to kind of dig into a little bit. You've alluded
to them here and there, but you have a sexy
baby problem.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I have unwelcome judgment in my views on it because
even in Penning in a World, it was part of
the you know, sort of joke of it was, what
is this trend, this plague that is infecting our women?
And it felt like regression. It felt not like progress
(22:05):
just on a feminist bent. It is a sound that
parkens Our ears back to a time when you are
a child, when you have to ask for things, you
don't have agency, And so why is that sound? A
submissive little girl sound somehow sexy. All of a sudden,
(22:27):
I had a bone to pick with that. You started
to see women who were in their forties have great jobs,
their lawyers, their CEO or whatever, and they started to
have this sound. And that's where I got confused and
upset because I thought, Okay, so you're saying, especially as
a mother, society is allowing for or supporting this idea
(22:50):
that women can sound like little girls and be leaders.
And that for me was difficult because I don't want
my daughter to think that that's how you're supposed to sound.
I don't want my son to think that women should
sound that way. And I feel bad for feeling uncomfortable
because I think that women should sound. However, the dam this.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Is why I don't understand. I don't understand why you
feel bad about being uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Because I'm a woman. We feel badly for judging other women.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
But hold on the argument that you're making in your book,
is that a lot of the way we sound is
a choice. So women, a certain group of women have
chosen either consciously or unconsciously, to sound this way. They
don't have to sound this way, right, They have options. Yes,
(23:38):
our voice is our own. We control the way we sound.
And you're simply saying that's a bad choice or a
problematic choice.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
You are saying that I should feel comfortable with feeling uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yes, well, I'm wondering why you're so conflicted about the
fact that you find this voice to be an issue.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Okay, So because, for instance, I have a pal let's
call her RS, and she has a very high pitched voice,
naturally off the truck. Okay, So she's not putting it on.
She just has that voice. I love her. She's so sweet.
(24:20):
She's got a little fry then a little uptalk. But
she's a mom of three, she works hard, and I
just know her. And so it's people like that where
I go. I know she's not putting it on. I
also understand that she's probably not a vocally obsessed person
and isn't thinking about it so much. And so when
(24:43):
you say it's a choice, I concur that it is
a choice. Once you listen to it, and once you're
aware of it and you're in the room with it.
But I think that it's important in my research on
this to allow for there to be space for that's
just how they speak, but when it's something that's like
(25:03):
plaguing someone and they're kind of using it as a tool,
especially when it comes to a woman of a certain
age who's imbuing this sound that's of a young woman.
You know, I think in our voices, let's own it.
Let's own it that it's sexy to sound your age,
(25:25):
or it's sexy to sound like a mature woman.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I know that's not their natural sound, especially after giving
birth twice. Your voice changes after birth, you know it should.
It's a it's an experience, but also chemically, hormonally, your
voice changes, and that's a privilege. Aging is a privilege.
So own it.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
That was an excerpt from Lake Bell's Inner Voice, which
is a delight. Go get your copy today at Inside Voice,
audiobook dot Com, Audible, Spotify, and everywhere audiobooks are sold.
Host
Malcolm Gladwell
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