November 1, 2022 • 26 mins
Malcolm's friend, actress/writer/director/producer Lake Bell, is obsessed with voice. Malcolm is a little obsessed with Lake. This excerpt from Lake's new Pushkin audiobook Inside Voice: My Obsession with HowWe Sound, showcases Lake and Malcolm's conversation about the phenomenon of the sexy baby voice (think Paris Hilton or any Real Housewife). Inside Voice is a deep dive into what our voices mean and what they say about us. Go buy yourself a copy at insidevoiceaudiobook.com, Audible, Apple Books, Spotify, or anywhere audiobooks are sold.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Hello, Hello, Revisionist History listeners. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello,
Revisionist History listeners. Revisionist History Listeners, Hello, Hello, Revisionist History Listeners.
That didn't sound quite right, did it. It's got to
be more like this. Hello, Hello, Revisionist History listeners. I'm
(00:36):
quite grateful that our loyal fans like the sound of
my voice. But why is that? My dear friend, The actress, director, writer,
producer Lake Bell is obsessed with people's voices, and frankly,
I'm a little obsessed with Lake. So it made sense
for Lake to join Pushkin's ranks with her new audiobook,
Inside Voice. The book is a deep dive into what
(00:58):
our voices mean and what they say about us. Lake
explores the psychology and social science of voice. She talks
with icons like Drew Barrymore, Jeff Bloom, and Pam Greer.
And when she started questioning herself, she talked to me
she was struggling with how to write about the phenomenon
of the sexy baby voice. How could she enjoy in
(01:20):
respect Paris Hilton, their Kardashians, and various flavors of real
housewives all sexy babies, but definitively absolutely not want her
own daughter to grow up to be one. It made
her feel like a judgmental jerk. So I was a
shrink and Lake got on the couch and we had
fun working through that one. I may even have tried
(01:42):
to put on a little sexy baby voice myself. Enjoy
this sample chapter and then go buy yourself a copy
at Inside Voice, audiobook dot Com, Audible, Spotify, or anywhere
audiobooks are sold. I'll be back before year's end with
some bonus episodes of revisionist history. When you guys think
(02:06):
of like a strong woman's voice, what does that sound like?
Someone just like fluent and confident? Anyone come to mind?
Michelle Obama Yeah, oh my god, I think just Ariana
Grande because she's been very advocated for the God is
a Woman thing. So I'm just like Ariana Grande, Queen Latifah,
(02:28):
I would have to say, Michelle Obama. Kirsty Ali, I
think has a very deep, powerful voice. My mom, Yeah, sure, yeah,
my mom, Oprah the same, Yeah, I would go, I'd
agree with that one. Oprah da in the Oprah Okay.
Lena Horne, Yeah, speaking voice too, yeah, Lena Horn, He's
(02:52):
my wife. My life is stronger and I really love
her and I'm proud for What about an alluring sexy
female voice. Jennifer Aniston, Angelina, Jolie, Carrie Washington. Oh that
was good Angelina. Jolie will be a Sirie. I think Sirie? Yeah? Maybe?
(03:20):
Oh you could be different see voice. I don't know.
I just think of catwoman, but I think of a
sexy woman of mine at woman Kim Gardashian. So your turn.
When you think of a strong woman, what does she
sound like? Does she sound like this? We want people
(03:43):
who are redefining what it means to be strong, to
be powerful, to be inspirational, to be aspirational, to be
astoundingly age defying. Or does she sound like this? Kylie
called to Chloe and said, Hey, I want to take
over your party. Just send me the list. Three seconds later,
(04:04):
Chloe text me, did you tell Kylie about the parties?
I don't know what are you talking about? What party?
Make no mistake, both of these women are powerful. Another test,
when you think of a sexy woman, what does she
sound like? Does she sound like this? Isn't this a coincidence?
I know you the other one that doesn't like to
(04:25):
talk about the heat too bad? I tell you about
my chance or does she sound like this? I like
Barnett's sexy voice and laugh a lot. I kind of
like that he gave off a vibe that he was
a player. One of the more questionable, nay controversial trends
(04:48):
to come out of gen Z is the sexy baby voice.
What is that you say? Let me remind you my
evening's going amazing because I have a rose. I was
gone for a whole week and still all we can
talk about is Crystal. All we can think about is Crystal.
I don't want to make this night about to honor
(05:11):
and kick off this discussion. Here is a never before
scene and heard scene from My Future in a World,
a film that I wrote, directed, and starred in entirely
about the voiceover industry, because, as we've already established, I'm
clearly obsessed. This deleted scene depicts my character Carol, trying
to coach a sexy baby into finding her true sound.
(05:37):
Roll it so and he told you who is writing
a book where you just like, holy shit, that's amaze balls?
Can I do a vocal experiment on you? Why? Why not?
Because that's a weird question to ask. I don't even
know you I'm Carol. You were just you were just
interviewing me. I'm a vocal coach, I'm a writer. Be
(06:00):
good for the story. Fine, fine, okay, good. Um. So
you're just going to count to ten. But when you
get to the odd numbers, you're gonna use the lowest
point in your register, and when you get to the
even numbers, you're gonna use the highest point in your register.
And then right after you're just gonna speak without thinking.
So you're gonna go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
(06:23):
eight nine ten. Here's my voice. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
eight nine ten. Here's my voice. Oh my god. Right,
(06:46):
that's so weird. It sounds lower, and it sounds I
suppose let's make something crystal clear before we delve into
the sexy baby zone, which is also a no judgment zone.
This is a safe place to regard and appreciate a
(07:08):
unique cultural phenomenon. In fact, I have long been inspired
and in awe of this vocal trend and seek to
focus on it through a cultural lens. What factors brought
it into the American English language in the first place,
and how did it evolve over time for any one
person in my formative years. It was Paris Hilton. I
(07:33):
thought she was extraordinary, hilarious, awesome, larger than life, and
there was something really special there. Sure, much of the
allure was the outfits and the status, but there was
something unique about Paris that nobody else could quite emulate.
Nobody could get to that level of her stardom. Why
(07:58):
the voice? She captured the world with a voice that
broadcasted both little girl submission and overt sexuality concurrently unfathomable
feat or was it? I just have like a drive
inside of me, like I love creating, I love doing
(08:20):
what I do. I love making people happy, and I
love making money. Thinks so much for being here. I appreciate.
I know that he waves being crazy. It was like
ninety seven degrees of it. That's hot. Did you see
that Ross and Rachel might be dating in real life?
That's hot? How would you pronounce Kevin Hard's last name
in a British accent? That it is hot? And yet
(08:40):
I want to admit that I struggle. Okay, there's a
struggle here. If my personal cultural north star is creating
space for a female vocal sound to imbue trustworthiness, all
knowing electable authority, then how does the rampant trend of
(09:07):
the sexy baby voice impact that effort? I mean, I
could admit that I enjoy the wildly moorish entertainment provided
by the Audies, Paris Hilton, the storm that is, the
Kardashians and every Real Housewives of whatever the fuck they're
all flooded with sexy babies. But here's the kicker. Do
(09:30):
I want my daughter to grow up and speak like that?
The answer is hell no? And see now I feel bad. Now,
I feel like some judgmental jerk. I'm genuinely in an
existential crisis on this issue. So I opted to phone
a friend. But not just any friend. I needed a
(09:52):
deep thinker who also happened to be a best selling author,
a public speaker type that the whole world has stamped
an authority on unpacking big and controversial ideas. So I
turned to the iconic public speaker, best selling author of
multiple zeitgeist making books like The Tipping Point and Outliers,
(10:13):
among others, and of course, founder of Pushkin Industries. That's right,
Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm has been hearing about my deep seated
sexy baby struggle four years at this point, and Frankly,
he's the only person who can flip the script and
interrogate me on this very issue that I myself have
(10:33):
brought to the proverbial table. Wait wait, okay, hold on,
there's been much more specific and break it down. First
of all, we have these elements that you've identified. Are
they all equally important or are they they all play
You can't rank them. You can't say sexy baby is
sixty percent. No, it's a cocktail. It's a cocktail. Okay.
(10:55):
Number one, the vocal fright, I would say number one, pitch, pitch. Okay,
I would go straight to pitch, because first you've gotta
This is very hard for me to do, is to
kind of dial in too, because I enjoy kind of
putting all the cotail together because it's like once you
have a martini, it's like you always want the mix.
So if I can just get the pitch, it's so
(11:18):
we're here, and I'm already starting to fry a little bit,
but I'm trying not to so that I can just
take pitch. This is pitch. So this is like if
I were to be talking to you in an intellectual way,
but I'm just pitched up. Okay, yes, Now, then you
layer on that. Now, by the way, do you ever
(11:41):
we're not talking about sexy Baby, We're talking about likeke Bell. Hi.
Do you ever operate in that pitch? Never? Never? Okay,
in a in a sexual encounter? Um, if I may,
I do not find myself pitching up to that level. Yeah,
or because that's the only time I could think. Sorry,
very revealing. When you spoke to your children when they
(12:02):
were babies, did you go up that up? Now you did? No?
I would never go this high for anything. First of all,
it's you know, it's athletic. That's one of the things
about sexy Baby is that it's like hard to do,
like you have to work hard at it. It is
an athletic feat layer in the next thing. The next
(12:22):
thing would be fry. And I'm guilty of a little
fry here and there. I think we all are. We
have a sprinkle of fry. You know, it's like a
cultural trend. It's like skinny jeans. You know, it's in
and then we all kind of adopt it and we
don't even notice. So notice, no, you know, I got
a little there. So when you have this and then
(12:43):
you start adding in the fry, so teach me how
to do fry. Assume I've never heard of it. Again,
I'm not a professional, but I will say the fry
is a croak. It's in the back of your throat,
so you're going to roll it kind of like you're
(13:04):
a frog. So closer. So so give me like a
like why, like why close? Getting there? Um? The thing is,
you have some you have some tick, some water, you
have some you're swallowing it, so you're going, ah, you're
(13:26):
getting stuck in a tightness in your throat versus like
forward opening it up. Oh yeah, so getting in. I
don't know how to form a word with that. I'm
like why why why? Why? Wait? Do that? Do? Like why? Oh? Yeah?
(13:48):
You see? So like why now you don't the fry
in yuptalk? Is there a place in the sentence where
those two things operate. So we're always in the upper register,
so pitch is a constant, but we're not frying everything. Uh,
fry is like seasoning. You can't fry all the way
(14:09):
through or else you would just have a croake sound.
So fry is really kind of like there's a dance there. So,
for instance, in my normal speech, I would say, for instance,
and that's a plateau. We're just like on a road
going forward. For instance, is obviously a classic up talk
(14:31):
with a little sprinkle of fry and pitch up. What
work is fry doing? Is it comic? Is it for emphasis?
I think it comes from a place of like sex.
This is part of the like sexy flavor of spice,
because I think when I've interviewed people, Hey, you know
what's the most alluring sexy voice in a woman? It
tends to be croakier voices. It tends to be smokier voices.
(14:56):
And whether they're high voices or low voices, they all
seem to have that element in them. And it's paradoxical
because it's a smoky kind of guttural thing that's taking
place at a very high Yeah. Yeah, Um. I'm trying
to think of like men who fry, because there's a
ton of men who fry as well. You know who fries?
(15:17):
Who fries Henry Kissinger fries. Yeah, but it's a it's
a kind of German fry, a German fry. Know, it's
a kind of like but it is the frenchhip upset. Yeah.
I will stake anything on the proposition that before the
end of this year, Gorbatov wi being washing and I'll
(15:37):
stake only a little less on the proposition that before
the end of next year President Reagan will be in Moscow.
Um but wait, you did something else in Sexy Baby
that you haven't talked about, which is you were also
running some words together. So that's them, that is quality.
So yeah, that's a little I will say that kind
of creeps into performance a little bit to help me
(15:59):
get in there, you know, just as an actor and
as a performer, for instance, with accents, I have either
a hand gester or you know, a catchphrase to get
you into to an accent like Irish's put bak on
the boat on the boko. I don't know if I'll
ever need to put anything in a bucket, but in
an Irish accent probably you know what I mean. Um, So,
(16:20):
like that's like my in there, in my experience with
hearing Sexy Baby in the wild, Yes, in there, sentences
without spaces, imagine typing a sense. Yeah, there's no punctuation,
there's no punctuation whatsoever. It's that that irritates me. Yeah,
and like what it really bothers me about climate change
or whatever is that like we're not working together, and
(16:42):
like if we could just like work together, like you
didn't make so much more of our power together, and
like that for me is just like sueim where it mean,
(17:03):
if I was like an oil company and I wanted
to really get people to be skeptical of climate change,
I would just run an ad of what you just said.
That's here's a deal. Drying a car like gas or
whatever is like just like American. But there's so there's
there's that running together, and then there's also a little
(17:24):
bit of slurring that you're adding there's no you're right,
there's like a little bit of sorry. I think that
I just want to say something it's really important, which
is like it doesn't mean you're not smart. The accent
and the dialect. Why I have a bone to pick
with it is because like I am a feminist and
like I don't want to think of women as little
sexy babies that can't think for themselves, and so it's
(17:48):
really hard for me. I really think of it as
a trend that's gotten out of control. You know, it
was kind of cute for a beat. It was in
a movie or two, you know, and there was a
kind of a texture of sound that was born from
the California a surfer girl community, valley esque environment. But
(18:14):
I do think that that compounded with the history like
before that, where did it come from? It's like, okay,
there's Betty Boop, And I think that Betty Boop is
a good place to start just as a reference, because
it's very distinct. She is sexualized, she's not homely, the
ideas that she's alluring, but there's no fry in Betty Boopoop, No,
(18:39):
there's not. There's not. Betty Boop is kind of the
original sexy baby though, if it just as a concept,
that's see where the archetype comes from. Yeah, booop. But
there's been a great deal of linguistic innovation, yes, between
Dan and how does Marilyn Monroe fit into this evolution?
That's breathiness, is it? Yeah? But she also is broadcasting
(19:02):
a bedroom voice, so why I just don't know, and
a little baby voice but you know, oh well listen, peaky.
You know that's very high pitched. So you've got the
grounds there for that starting place, which is we didn't
really get the breathiness in the sexy baby voice, but
(19:23):
we got that pitch you know, and that alluring, sexy
nature of bedroom talk that's like outward and being exposed
to everyone. I mean, that was her whole thing. So
that's why I have the words sexy in it. It's
super interesting because if we think of Paris Hilton and
Kim Kardashian as people who are taking the intimacy of
(19:45):
the sex tape and kind of taking it public, Marilyn
Monroe's famous Happy Birthday sung to JFK when she was
presumably in the middle of having an affair with is
the same thing, right. I mean, she's essentially saying, I'm
having an affair with this guy. Right, That's the whole
point of the happy Birthday thing, is this is the
(20:05):
way we are when we're in bed together, and I'm
doing it in front of the entire country. It's like
such an incredible like it's like this, fuck you first
of all to Jackie. I know, I mean, it's just,
but it's extraordinary. It is an extraordinary cultural moment, Happy
day to happy Birthday. So Paris hill and comes along
(20:34):
in the aughts, right, talking like this, and it becomes
a kind of sensation and it proves quite culturally contagious
and I'm wondering why why would the sexy baby voice
come back at that moment. It boils down to sex tapes,
kind of like the women that we're talking about. If
(20:54):
we're going to bring up Paris and Kim, they both
had that right. They had a sex tape that was leaked.
And by the way, speaking of another classic voice and
a sex tape, Pamela Anderson. Now that voice, you know,
is effective, and so I feel like there's something there
(21:15):
where It's like taking the bedroom voice and broadcasting it
and allowing for that intimacy to be a part of
the brand. Rhinestones. There's no such thing as too many rhinestones,
because it's hot to bling as much as possible. You
have complicated feelings about sexy Baby, which I want to
(21:35):
kind of dig into a little bit. You've alluded to
them here and there, but you have a sexy baby problem.
I have unwelcome judgment in my views on it because
even in Penning in a World, it was part of
the you know, sort of joke of it was, what
(21:56):
is this trend, this plague that is infecting our women?
And it felt like regression, It felt not like progress,
just on a feminist bent. It is a sound owned
that parkens our ears back to a time when you
are a child, when you have to ask for things,
you don't have agency, And so why is that sound
(22:21):
a submissive little girl sound somehow sexy? All of a sudden,
like I had a bone to pick with that, you
started to see women who were in their forties have
great jobs, they're lawyers, their CEO or whatever, and they
started to have this sound. And that's where I got
confused and upset because I thought, Okay, so you're saying,
(22:43):
especially as a mother, society is allowing for or supporting
this idea that women can sound like little girls and
be leaders. And that for me was difficult because I
don't want my daughter to think that that's how you're
supposed to sound. I don't want my son to think
that women are should sound that way. And I feel
(23:05):
bad for feeling uncomfortable because I think that women should
sound However, the damn how This is why I don't understand.
I don't understand why you feel bad about being uncomfortable
because I'm a woman. We feel badly for judging other women.
But hold on the argument that you're making in your book,
is that a lot of the way we sound is
(23:25):
a choice. So women, a certain group of women have
chosen either consciously or unconsciously, to sound this way. They
don't have to sound this way, right, They have options. Yes,
our voice is our own. We control the way we sound.
And you're simply saying that's a bad choice or a
problematic choice. You are saying that I should feel comfortable
(23:51):
with feeling uncomfortable. Yes, well, I'm wondering why you're so
conflicted about the fact that you find this voice to
be an issue. Okay, So, because, for instance, I have
a pal let's call her RS, and she has a
very high pitched voice, naturally off the truck. Okay, So
(24:13):
she's not putting it on. She just has that voice.
I love her. She's so sweet. She's got a little
fry and a little uptalk. But she's a mom of three,
she works hard, and I just know her. And so
it's people like that where I go. I know she's
(24:33):
not putting it on. I also understand that she's probably
not a vocally obsessed person and isn't thinking about it
so much. And so when you say it's a choice,
I concur that it is a choice. Once you listen
to it and once you're aware of it and you're
in the room with it. But I think that it's
important in my research on this to allow for there
(24:56):
to be space for that's just how they speak, but
when it's something that's like plaguing someone and they're kind
of using it as a tool, especially when it comes
to a woman of a certain age who's imbuing this
sound that's of a young woman. You know, I think
(25:20):
in our voices, let's own it. Let's own it that
it's sexy to sound your age, or it's sexy to
sound like a mature woman. You know. I know that's
not their natural sound, especially after giving birth. Twice. Your
voice changes after birth, you know it should. It's a
it's an experience, but also chemically, hormonally, your voice changes,
(25:42):
and that's a privilege. Aging is a privilege. So own it.
That was an excerpt from Lech Bell's Inner Voice, which
is a delight. Go get your copy today at Inside Voice,
audiobook dot Com, Audible, Spotify, and everywhere audiobooks are sold.
Pushkin. Hello, Hello, Revisionist History listeners. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello,
Revisionist History listeners. Revisionist History Listeners, Hello, Hello, Revisionist History Listeners.
That didn't sound quite right, did it. It's got to
be more like this. Hello, Hello, Revisionist History listeners. I'm
(00:36):
quite grateful that our loyal fans like the sound of
my voice. But why is that? My dear friend, The actress, director, writer,
producer Lake Bell is obsessed with people's voices, and frankly,
I'm a little obsessed with Lake. So it made sense
for Lake to join Pushkin's ranks with her new audiobook,
Inside Voice. The book is a deep dive into what
(00:58):
our voices mean and what they say about us. Lake
explores the psychology and social science of voice. She talks
with icons like Drew Barrymore, Jeff Bloom, and Pam Greer.
And when she started questioning herself, she talked to me
she was struggling with how to write about the phenomenon
of the sexy baby voice. How could she enjoy in
(01:20):
respect Paris Hilton, their Kardashians, and various flavors of real
housewives all sexy babies, but definitively absolutely not want her
own daughter to grow up to be one. It made
her feel like a judgmental jerk. So I was a
shrink and Lake got on the couch and we had
fun working through that one. I may even have tried
(01:42):
to put on a little sexy baby voice myself. Enjoy
this sample chapter and then go buy yourself a copy
at Inside Voice, audiobook dot Com, Audible, Spotify, or anywhere
audiobooks are sold. I'll be back before year's end with
some bonus episodes of revisionist history. When you guys think
(02:06):
of like a strong woman's voice, what does that sound like?
Someone just like fluent and confident? Anyone come to mind?
Michelle Obama Yeah, oh my god, I think just Ariana
Grande because she's been very advocated for the God is
a Woman thing. So I'm just like Ariana Grande, Queen Latifah,
(02:28):
I would have to say, Michelle Obama. Kirsty Ali, I
think has a very deep, powerful voice. My mom, Yeah, sure, yeah,
my mom, Oprah the same, Yeah, I would go, I'd
agree with that one. Oprah da in the Oprah Okay.
Lena Horne, Yeah, speaking voice too, yeah, Lena Horn, He's
(02:52):
my wife. My life is stronger and I really love
her and I'm proud for What about an alluring sexy
female voice. Jennifer Aniston, Angelina, Jolie, Carrie Washington. Oh that
was good Angelina. Jolie will be a Sirie. I think Sirie? Yeah? Maybe?
(03:20):
Oh you could be different see voice. I don't know.
I just think of catwoman, but I think of a
sexy woman of mine at woman Kim Gardashian. So your turn.
When you think of a strong woman, what does she
sound like? Does she sound like this? We want people
(03:43):
who are redefining what it means to be strong, to
be powerful, to be inspirational, to be aspirational, to be
astoundingly age defying. Or does she sound like this? Kylie
called to Chloe and said, Hey, I want to take
over your party. Just send me the list. Three seconds later,
(04:04):
Chloe text me, did you tell Kylie about the parties?
I don't know what are you talking about? What party?
Make no mistake, both of these women are powerful. Another test,
when you think of a sexy woman, what does she
sound like? Does she sound like this? Isn't this a coincidence?
I know you the other one that doesn't like to
(04:25):
talk about the heat too bad? I tell you about
my chance or does she sound like this? I like
Barnett's sexy voice and laugh a lot. I kind of
like that he gave off a vibe that he was
a player. One of the more questionable, nay controversial trends
(04:48):
to come out of gen Z is the sexy baby voice.
What is that you say? Let me remind you my
evening's going amazing because I have a rose. I was
gone for a whole week and still all we can
talk about is Crystal. All we can think about is Crystal.
I don't want to make this night about to honor
(05:11):
and kick off this discussion. Here is a never before
scene and heard scene from My Future in a World,
a film that I wrote, directed, and starred in entirely
about the voiceover industry, because, as we've already established, I'm
clearly obsessed. This deleted scene depicts my character Carol, trying
to coach a sexy baby into finding her true sound.
(05:37):
Roll it so and he told you who is writing
a book where you just like, holy shit, that's amaze balls?
Can I do a vocal experiment on you? Why? Why not?
Because that's a weird question to ask. I don't even
know you I'm Carol. You were just you were just
interviewing me. I'm a vocal coach, I'm a writer. Be
(06:00):
good for the story. Fine, fine, okay, good. Um. So
you're just going to count to ten. But when you
get to the odd numbers, you're gonna use the lowest
point in your register, and when you get to the
even numbers, you're gonna use the highest point in your register.
And then right after you're just gonna speak without thinking.
So you're gonna go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
(06:23):
eight nine ten. Here's my voice. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
eight nine ten. Here's my voice. Oh my god. Right,
(06:46):
that's so weird. It sounds lower, and it sounds I
suppose let's make something crystal clear before we delve into
the sexy baby zone, which is also a no judgment zone.
This is a safe place to regard and appreciate a
(07:08):
unique cultural phenomenon. In fact, I have long been inspired
and in awe of this vocal trend and seek to
focus on it through a cultural lens. What factors brought
it into the American English language in the first place,
and how did it evolve over time for any one
person in my formative years. It was Paris Hilton. I
(07:33):
thought she was extraordinary, hilarious, awesome, larger than life, and
there was something really special there. Sure, much of the
allure was the outfits and the status, but there was
something unique about Paris that nobody else could quite emulate.
Nobody could get to that level of her stardom. Why
(07:58):
the voice? She captured the world with a voice that
broadcasted both little girl submission and overt sexuality concurrently unfathomable
feat or was it? I just have like a drive
inside of me, like I love creating, I love doing
(08:20):
what I do. I love making people happy, and I
love making money. Thinks so much for being here. I appreciate.
I know that he waves being crazy. It was like
ninety seven degrees of it. That's hot. Did you see
that Ross and Rachel might be dating in real life?
That's hot? How would you pronounce Kevin Hard's last name
in a British accent? That it is hot? And yet
(08:40):
I want to admit that I struggle. Okay, there's a
struggle here. If my personal cultural north star is creating
space for a female vocal sound to imbue trustworthiness, all
knowing electable authority, then how does the rampant trend of
(09:07):
the sexy baby voice impact that effort? I mean, I
could admit that I enjoy the wildly moorish entertainment provided
by the Audies, Paris Hilton, the storm that is, the
Kardashians and every Real Housewives of whatever the fuck they're
all flooded with sexy babies. But here's the kicker. Do
(09:30):
I want my daughter to grow up and speak like that?
The answer is hell no? And see now I feel bad. Now,
I feel like some judgmental jerk. I'm genuinely in an
existential crisis on this issue. So I opted to phone
a friend. But not just any friend. I needed a
(09:52):
deep thinker who also happened to be a best selling author,
a public speaker type that the whole world has stamped
an authority on unpacking big and controversial ideas. So I
turned to the iconic public speaker, best selling author of
multiple zeitgeist making books like The Tipping Point and Outliers,
(10:13):
among others, and of course, founder of Pushkin Industries. That's right,
Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm has been hearing about my deep seated
sexy baby struggle four years at this point, and Frankly,
he's the only person who can flip the script and
interrogate me on this very issue that I myself have
(10:33):
brought to the proverbial table. Wait wait, okay, hold on,
there's been much more specific and break it down. First
of all, we have these elements that you've identified. Are
they all equally important or are they they all play
You can't rank them. You can't say sexy baby is
sixty percent. No, it's a cocktail. It's a cocktail. Okay.
(10:55):
Number one, the vocal fright, I would say number one, pitch, pitch. Okay,
I would go straight to pitch, because first you've gotta
This is very hard for me to do, is to
kind of dial in too, because I enjoy kind of
putting all the cotail together because it's like once you
have a martini, it's like you always want the mix.
So if I can just get the pitch, it's so
(11:18):
we're here, and I'm already starting to fry a little bit,
but I'm trying not to so that I can just
take pitch. This is pitch. So this is like if
I were to be talking to you in an intellectual way,
but I'm just pitched up. Okay, yes, Now, then you
layer on that. Now, by the way, do you ever
(11:41):
we're not talking about sexy Baby, We're talking about likeke Bell. Hi.
Do you ever operate in that pitch? Never? Never? Okay,
in a in a sexual encounter? Um, if I may,
I do not find myself pitching up to that level. Yeah,
or because that's the only time I could think. Sorry,
very revealing. When you spoke to your children when they
(12:02):
were babies, did you go up that up? Now you did? No?
I would never go this high for anything. First of all,
it's you know, it's athletic. That's one of the things
about sexy Baby is that it's like hard to do,
like you have to work hard at it. It is
an athletic feat layer in the next thing. The next
(12:22):
thing would be fry. And I'm guilty of a little
fry here and there. I think we all are. We
have a sprinkle of fry. You know, it's like a
cultural trend. It's like skinny jeans. You know, it's in
and then we all kind of adopt it and we
don't even notice. So notice, no, you know, I got
a little there. So when you have this and then
(12:43):
you start adding in the fry, so teach me how
to do fry. Assume I've never heard of it. Again,
I'm not a professional, but I will say the fry
is a croak. It's in the back of your throat,
so you're going to roll it kind of like you're
(13:04):
a frog. So closer. So so give me like a
like why, like why close? Getting there? Um? The thing is,
you have some you have some tick, some water, you
have some you're swallowing it, so you're going, ah, you're
(13:26):
getting stuck in a tightness in your throat versus like
forward opening it up. Oh yeah, so getting in. I
don't know how to form a word with that. I'm
like why why why? Why? Wait? Do that? Do? Like why? Oh? Yeah?
(13:48):
You see? So like why now you don't the fry
in yuptalk? Is there a place in the sentence where
those two things operate. So we're always in the upper register,
so pitch is a constant, but we're not frying everything. Uh,
fry is like seasoning. You can't fry all the way
(14:09):
through or else you would just have a croake sound.
So fry is really kind of like there's a dance there. So,
for instance, in my normal speech, I would say, for instance,
and that's a plateau. We're just like on a road
going forward. For instance, is obviously a classic up talk
(14:31):
with a little sprinkle of fry and pitch up. What
work is fry doing? Is it comic? Is it for emphasis?
I think it comes from a place of like sex.
This is part of the like sexy flavor of spice,
because I think when I've interviewed people, Hey, you know
what's the most alluring sexy voice in a woman? It
tends to be croakier voices. It tends to be smokier voices.
(14:56):
And whether they're high voices or low voices, they all
seem to have that element in them. And it's paradoxical
because it's a smoky kind of guttural thing that's taking
place at a very high Yeah. Yeah, Um. I'm trying
to think of like men who fry, because there's a
ton of men who fry as well. You know who fries?
(15:17):
Who fries Henry Kissinger fries. Yeah, but it's a it's
a kind of German fry, a German fry. Know, it's
a kind of like but it is the frenchhip upset. Yeah.
I will stake anything on the proposition that before the
end of this year, Gorbatov wi being washing and I'll
(15:37):
stake only a little less on the proposition that before
the end of next year President Reagan will be in Moscow.
Um but wait, you did something else in Sexy Baby
that you haven't talked about, which is you were also
running some words together. So that's them, that is quality.
So yeah, that's a little I will say that kind
of creeps into performance a little bit to help me
(15:59):
get in there, you know, just as an actor and
as a performer, for instance, with accents, I have either
a hand gester or you know, a catchphrase to get
you into to an accent like Irish's put bak on
the boat on the boko. I don't know if I'll
ever need to put anything in a bucket, but in
an Irish accent probably you know what I mean. Um, So,
(16:20):
like that's like my in there, in my experience with
hearing Sexy Baby in the wild, Yes, in there, sentences
without spaces, imagine typing a sense. Yeah, there's no punctuation,
there's no punctuation whatsoever. It's that that irritates me. Yeah,
and like what it really bothers me about climate change
or whatever is that like we're not working together, and
(16:42):
like if we could just like work together, like you
didn't make so much more of our power together, and
like that for me is just like sueim where it mean,
(17:03):
if I was like an oil company and I wanted
to really get people to be skeptical of climate change,
I would just run an ad of what you just said.
That's here's a deal. Drying a car like gas or
whatever is like just like American. But there's so there's
there's that running together, and then there's also a little
(17:24):
bit of slurring that you're adding there's no you're right,
there's like a little bit of sorry. I think that
I just want to say something it's really important, which
is like it doesn't mean you're not smart. The accent
and the dialect. Why I have a bone to pick
with it is because like I am a feminist and
like I don't want to think of women as little
sexy babies that can't think for themselves, and so it's
(17:48):
really hard for me. I really think of it as
a trend that's gotten out of control. You know, it
was kind of cute for a beat. It was in
a movie or two, you know, and there was a
kind of a texture of sound that was born from
the California a surfer girl community, valley esque environment. But
(18:14):
I do think that that compounded with the history like
before that, where did it come from? It's like, okay,
there's Betty Boop, And I think that Betty Boop is
a good place to start just as a reference, because
it's very distinct. She is sexualized, she's not homely, the
ideas that she's alluring, but there's no fry in Betty Boopoop, No,
(18:39):
there's not. There's not. Betty Boop is kind of the
original sexy baby though, if it just as a concept,
that's see where the archetype comes from. Yeah, booop. But
there's been a great deal of linguistic innovation, yes, between
Dan and how does Marilyn Monroe fit into this evolution?
That's breathiness, is it? Yeah? But she also is broadcasting
(19:02):
a bedroom voice, so why I just don't know, and
a little baby voice but you know, oh well listen, peaky.
You know that's very high pitched. So you've got the
grounds there for that starting place, which is we didn't
really get the breathiness in the sexy baby voice, but
(19:23):
we got that pitch you know, and that alluring, sexy
nature of bedroom talk that's like outward and being exposed
to everyone. I mean, that was her whole thing. So
that's why I have the words sexy in it. It's
super interesting because if we think of Paris Hilton and
Kim Kardashian as people who are taking the intimacy of
(19:45):
the sex tape and kind of taking it public, Marilyn
Monroe's famous Happy Birthday sung to JFK when she was
presumably in the middle of having an affair with is
the same thing, right. I mean, she's essentially saying, I'm
having an affair with this guy. Right, That's the whole
point of the happy Birthday thing, is this is the
(20:05):
way we are when we're in bed together, and I'm
doing it in front of the entire country. It's like
such an incredible like it's like this, fuck you first
of all to Jackie. I know, I mean, it's just,
but it's extraordinary. It is an extraordinary cultural moment, Happy
day to happy Birthday. So Paris hill and comes along
(20:34):
in the aughts, right, talking like this, and it becomes
a kind of sensation and it proves quite culturally contagious
and I'm wondering why why would the sexy baby voice
come back at that moment. It boils down to sex tapes,
kind of like the women that we're talking about. If
(20:54):
we're going to bring up Paris and Kim, they both
had that right. They had a sex tape that was leaked.
And by the way, speaking of another classic voice and
a sex tape, Pamela Anderson. Now that voice, you know,
is effective, and so I feel like there's something there
(21:15):
where It's like taking the bedroom voice and broadcasting it
and allowing for that intimacy to be a part of
the brand. Rhinestones. There's no such thing as too many rhinestones,
because it's hot to bling as much as possible. You
have complicated feelings about sexy Baby, which I want to
(21:35):
kind of dig into a little bit. You've alluded to
them here and there, but you have a sexy baby problem.
I have unwelcome judgment in my views on it because
even in Penning in a World, it was part of
the you know, sort of joke of it was, what
(21:56):
is this trend, this plague that is infecting our women?
And it felt like regression, It felt not like progress,
just on a feminist bent. It is a sound owned
that parkens our ears back to a time when you
are a child, when you have to ask for things,
you don't have agency, And so why is that sound
(22:21):
a submissive little girl sound somehow sexy? All of a sudden,
like I had a bone to pick with that, you
started to see women who were in their forties have
great jobs, they're lawyers, their CEO or whatever, and they
started to have this sound. And that's where I got
confused and upset because I thought, Okay, so you're saying,
(22:43):
especially as a mother, society is allowing for or supporting
this idea that women can sound like little girls and
be leaders. And that for me was difficult because I
don't want my daughter to think that that's how you're
supposed to sound. I don't want my son to think
that women are should sound that way. And I feel
(23:05):
bad for feeling uncomfortable because I think that women should
sound However, the damn how This is why I don't understand.
I don't understand why you feel bad about being uncomfortable
because I'm a woman. We feel badly for judging other women.
But hold on the argument that you're making in your book,
is that a lot of the way we sound is
(23:25):
a choice. So women, a certain group of women have
chosen either consciously or unconsciously, to sound this way. They
don't have to sound this way, right, They have options. Yes,
our voice is our own. We control the way we sound.
And you're simply saying that's a bad choice or a
problematic choice. You are saying that I should feel comfortable
(23:51):
with feeling uncomfortable. Yes, well, I'm wondering why you're so
conflicted about the fact that you find this voice to
be an issue. Okay, So, because, for instance, I have
a pal let's call her RS, and she has a
very high pitched voice, naturally off the truck. Okay, So
(24:13):
she's not putting it on. She just has that voice.
I love her. She's so sweet. She's got a little
fry and a little uptalk. But she's a mom of three,
she works hard, and I just know her. And so
it's people like that where I go. I know she's
(24:33):
not putting it on. I also understand that she's probably
not a vocally obsessed person and isn't thinking about it
so much. And so when you say it's a choice,
I concur that it is a choice. Once you listen
to it and once you're aware of it and you're
in the room with it. But I think that it's
important in my research on this to allow for there
(24:56):
to be space for that's just how they speak, but
when it's something that's like plaguing someone and they're kind
of using it as a tool, especially when it comes
to a woman of a certain age who's imbuing this
sound that's of a young woman. You know, I think
(25:20):
in our voices, let's own it. Let's own it that
it's sexy to sound your age, or it's sexy to
sound like a mature woman. You know. I know that's
not their natural sound, especially after giving birth. Twice. Your
voice changes after birth, you know it should. It's a
it's an experience, but also chemically, hormonally, your voice changes,
(25:42):
and that's a privilege. Aging is a privilege. So own it.
That was an excerpt from Lech Bell's Inner Voice, which
is a delight. Go get your copy today at Inside Voice,
audiobook dot Com, Audible, Spotify, and everywhere audiobooks are sold.
Host
Malcolm Gladwell
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