January 12, 2022 • 17 mins
Lizzy Pace and Chad Kultgen are the hosts of the podcast, Game of Roses and they have ideas about how to solve The Bachelor and reality TV more generally.
Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank, research by David Zha, booking by Lisa Dunn, editing help from Keishel Williams. The managing producer is Sachar Mathias and the executive producer is Mia Lobel.
Here are additional resources suggested by Lizzy and Chad, where you can learn more:
How To Win The Bachelor by Lizzy Pace and Chad Kultgen
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/How-to-Win-The-Bachelor/Chad-Kultgen/9781982172947
Bachelor Nation by Amy Kaufman
https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781101985915
TV Show: Unreal
https://www.hulu.com/series/unreal-dcd85133-0465-410f-8792-aeb94ebd5755
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Bushkin, This is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Junior, So well
you married. That's Nate Olakoya, a contestant of ABC's Bachelorette,
(00:42):
proposing to Michelle Young on National TV. The Bachelorette spent
off to ABC's The Bachelor is a competitive reality dating
show where contestants vie for the love of the lead,
aptly titled The Bachelor or The Bachelorette. With the start
of twenty twenty two, The Bachelor premiered it's twenty sixth season.
The franchise has been a popular mainstay for ABC, with
(01:03):
average viewership reaching over ten million in some seasons. I
love both The Bachelor and The Bachelorette. I've watched for
many seasons and at times I'd love to hate both
shows as well. Recently, I felt like the shows have
fallen out of step with reality. I mean, you have
almost entirely white player pools. There was a year where
(01:23):
both leads and all of their players were all white.
Twenty years later, we finally get a black bachelor. We
still have never seen a black woman when the ring
which is getting the final rows. There's still so much
that needs to happen. The past few seasons of the
show have tried to address its blind spots with regards
to race. Out of a combined forty four seasons, there
(01:47):
have been two black Bachelorettes and one black Bachelor so far.
But beyond the lack of inclusivity, watching the show is
difficult at times because it's premise feels dishonest. Everything you
see on that screen is a choice made by producers,
everything from what's actually happening on the screen, especially to
what they're not showing you. That's Chad Coulchin and Lizzie Peace,
(02:09):
who you heard earlier, are co hosts of Game of Roses,
a podcast about the Bachelor and Bachelor Rette franchises. I
enjoy listening because Chad and Lizzie talk about the show
in a very different way, not as a reality show
that chronicles to search for love, as the franchise purports
itself to be, but rather as a game with a prize.
(02:30):
And we meticulously recorded every play that has ever been
made by any player in the history of the game,
which gave us an in depth understanding of not only
the evolution of the game, but all of these different
statistical categories that allow us to apply metrics to strategy
for players coming into the game who want to try
to win the ring, the crown, get Top four, get
their million Instagram followers, or whatever their goals may be. Today,
(02:53):
we're talking to Lizzie and Chad not only about the
problems on this one reality show, but about how we
could take a more honest approach in producing and viewing
reality television. The belief that reality TV is real is
a solvable problem. Pretend that I've never watched this show
(03:19):
in my life, and just give me the most basic
description of The Bachelor you can. The Bachelor is a
ten round game of attrition where around thirty women try
to compete to date one man. And the way that
we sort of break down the show on our podcast
as well as the book that we have coming out,
(03:41):
is treating it like a game, as the end goal
being either to win the ring, to win the crown,
or around top four placement, because then you are guaranteed
a spot in Bachelor in Paradise, subsequent appearances on the show,
and can possibly get a million Instagram followers. It's funny
because I've known the show is not real, and most
(04:03):
of my arguments against it have to be with what
they're pressing forth as the ideal body type, the ideal race,
the ideal way to fall in love, and the ideal
family standard. Those are the practices that I argue with
the most. But what I'm hearing from you is that
it's there's more theater in this show than a regular
watcher would would even realize. Is that absolutely, it's pro
(04:25):
wrestling at this point, almost the kind of it is real.
I mean, every once in a while there is a
relationship that comes out of this show. There is potentially
even a family that does happen. It is rare, but
that's also part of the game. It's not real, yeah,
but the viewing audience, I think largely still believes it is.
(04:46):
So one segment of your podcast is there's a running
theme of the number of days and Lizzie, you do
you cover this portion the number of days without an
Asian Bachelor? Why is that important to note? Well, it
started out as the Days Without a Black Bachelor, the
DWAB as we call it, and we were tracking this
(05:06):
almost since the very beginning of our podcast until the
casting of Matt James, and so the day that his
premier aired, the DWAB finally went to zero, there was
finally zero days without a black Bachelor. For us, especially
having watched you know, the history of the whole series,
we have basically seen how racist the casting practices are.
(05:30):
I mean, you have almost entirely white player pools. There
was a year where both leads and all of their
players were all white. Years later we finally get a
black bachelor. We still have never seen a black woman
win the ring, which is getting the final rows. There's
still so much that needs to happen. And during Matt
(05:52):
James this season, even though they had the most diverse
player pool of all time, they were getting a proportionately
lower amount of screen time than the white players during
that season. Now we have days without an Asian Bachelor
because there hasn't been an Asian lead, There's been very
low Asian representation in terms of the players as well.
It's important for us to keep holding them accountable, to
(06:16):
make sure that you know, it's not a show upholding
white supremacy essentially. And I think it's important to note
too that it's not just about who's getting cast or
who the leads are. Those are all subjective choices, obviously,
but so are the stories being told and who makes
it into the final four. The leads don't actually choose
who gets the first impression Rose, who gets to go
(06:38):
on the dates, who gets the group date Roses. That's
all done by producers. When we think about things like
the reckonings that kind of begin to happen in society,
and it seemed like, and especially into different types of industry,
There's one in the cooking industry, there's one of course
in Hollywood, and just everywhere. It just seemed like there
are ripple effects of people waking up to the realities
(06:58):
of racism. So when we talk about race and this
show specifically, we talk about these being subjective choices. Do
you think a show like The Bachelor can be reimagined
to position itself as a reality show that is about
love in the current era for us, we think that
they need to embrace social media rather than run away
(07:19):
from it, as they seem to be doing with the
Bachelor Paradise storyline this year. I think they need to
catch up to where society is. They've been very slow moving.
You know, they've been making it up in terms of race,
but they've only featured one openly LGBTQ plus player during
a main game season. That was Jamie King on Nick
(07:41):
Baile's Season twenty one versus. You know, it's like one
in five young people identify as LGBTQ plus at this point,
So it's like, if you want to make more money
and keep going and not be seen as this relic,
we think that the game has to move forward and
start representing. You know what love stories in our country
(08:04):
actually look like. They don't embrace a lot of marginalization,
so they don't necessarily disability size. They'd certainly have a
certain archetype that they got there. Do you think that
any of those things are things they get addressed if
it moves from network television to a streaming platform, do
they have an incentive to even try to address those issues?
(08:24):
Do you think they even see them as issues? Well,
they are experimenting right now. They had a bisexual bachelorette
in Bachelor Australia some of the offshoot shows. They are
trying things out and seeing what the reactions are, and
I think we'll probably definitely see a bisexual lead at
(08:47):
some point. Do you think you'll ever see a plus
size lead or plus size contestant. We've had a couple
plus size contestants and they tried to pitch Bob Guinea,
the Bachelor of season four, as a kind of non
traditional looking bachelor. He was like a little bigger than
as soon as he shows up as the bachelor. He
was a tall white dude, but like he wasn't you know,
(09:08):
like a jack bodybuilder type dude. And then as soon
as he shows up in the first thing they show
is him jogging and like getting in quotes in shape
to be the Bachelor. So even that was kind of
like overturned. And to answer your question, like do they
see these as problems? I don't know, whatever kind of
antiquated views they want to promote, whatever kind of psychological
(09:28):
torture they want to impart upon any of these players.
It's like, well, it's good TV. Well that what does
that mean though we're destroying the fabric of America? Is
that like for good TV? That's where we're at now?
So talking more about that, do you think it's actually
destroying the fabric of America? Because I'm I'm prone to hyperbole,
and I say yes, but talk about how yeah, it
(09:50):
absolutely is, because there's I mean, we just came out
of the Trump era and this notion that we can
just promote open lies through media, and there's going to
be a certain segment of the population who either does
outright believe it or behaves as though they do. We'll
get us into situations like we're at now, where nobody
trusts anything in the news, nobody trusts science, nobody trusts
(10:11):
anything because everybody thinks everything is a lie. I think
reality TV is I mean, it's not where it started,
but it's like throwing gasoline on the fire. It's always
about driving people into emotional breakdowns so that we can
watch that as entertainment. And I know that a lot
of people think Bachelor is just kind of like a frivolous,
guilty pleasure, but to me, it really is the most
accurate reflection of our current society, especially one in which
(10:34):
we just had a reality TV show host as President
of the United States. I like the ways in which
that you guys are critical of the show by you know,
bringing it into reality and talking about the elements of
it that aren't real. I think that's important, and I
think you guys definitely have encouraged a different way to
watch The Bachelor, but you guys also have some ideas
of how the show can be improved or a better
(10:55):
version of a dating show. Do you guys want to
talk me through what some of those are. We would
like to see a more inclusive, more honest reality show
basically that's more clear about what people are going on
reality dating shows for, and just a more honest approach
to reality television. I think for the past twenty years
(11:17):
and all reality TV, there has been this line drawn
between the producers and the audience, and the producers saying
they can't see behind the curtain. The thing we're making
is this lie and they're eating it up, and that's
how we're making our money. But audiences are like so
much more savvy now. We all basically are making reality
TV shows in our instagrams and our TikTok's twenty four
(11:39):
hours a day. We understand how things are produced now.
I think all reality shows should step out of the
shadows and be much more transparent about the production elements
of it, and even maybe have that be a component
of the show itself. Every once in a while, especially
in Bachelor, you'll see a producer kind of like sneak
out of the shadows to have a conversation with somebody
or whatever. But I think you can have all that stuff,
(12:00):
Like right up front, what do you think we lose
by mining our own lives for content in this way?
Mindfulness being in the present moment. I think we have
different opinions on this. For me, I'm ready for the
chip in my head. I want to live in the
metaverse now. I think everything should be content at all times.
We are moving very quickly towards a society in which
(12:21):
everything has recorded twenty four hours a day, and the
job will really be curation. It will be who can
find the best, most interesting things if you look at like,
do you know Tank Sinatra, that meme artist? Yes, I've
afforded a lot of Tank Sinatra memes to my friends.
I follow him on Instagram. He also does Influencers in
the Wild that is literally just videos of people making
(12:42):
content that we watch and laugh at. So now content
is watching people making content, and eventually it's going to
be people sleeping, people just like sitting on their couch.
People will start getting famous for those things once we're
recording everything all the time, and I'm down for it.
There's a hotel in Japan that you can stay out
(13:03):
for free, but they just record you the whole time.
Is that good. What can listeners do if they want
to see the quality of their reality television improved with
(13:25):
shows like The Bachelor or anything else that they love watching.
Have a higher level of scrutiny for everything you're watching.
Always be asking yourself when you see anything on any screen,
why am I seeing this? Who wants me to see this?
And why do they want me to see it? Like
they're presenting it. Everything you see on that screen is
a choice made by producers, everything from what's actually happening
(13:48):
on the screen, especially to what they're not showing you.
There's so much media being generated, and now with deep fakes,
anything you want can be generated. Anyone can say anything. Yeah,
and especially I would say, no one is as evil
or as good as they probably appear given the edit.
They need these types of basic archetypes in every season.
(14:10):
Villains Fools we have We have broken down into twelve
archetypes in our book. But keep those in mind and
do not send threats or any hate towards people that
you don't know all the internet. How do you think
that results in improving the reality television? Like? What do
you think will come of that? I mean, ideally you
(14:31):
don't see players suffer from mental illness the way that
you were seeing a lot right now. And this has
been going on since season one. Linnise Adams, the first
black woman to appear on the show, who actually got
the first kiss in season one, went through like horrible
mental illness and started self medicating after she got a
(14:55):
huge racist backlash against her appearance, like all of these
white supremacists put videos of her on websites and stuff.
It's hard to prepare for the mental toll that having
yourself scrutinized, seeing yourself edited in all sorts of ways,
saying things that you never said, affects the players. What
(15:25):
do you guys see for the future of Game of Roses?
What do you guys see for the future of The
Bachelor in five to ten years, you guys still going
to be doing this? Do you guys think you'll get
tired of it? What will it look like? And do
you think it will be improved? What do you expect
that it looks like as you guys continue on, We're
really hoping our book comes out, How to Win the Bachelor,
and I think it will change the way people watch
(15:47):
the show. That's one of our goals and it adds
like a what we think is a fun element to
treat it as a sport, and we think that more
and more people will and we'll get you know, we
did some statistical work on this, but we're hoping, you know,
others pick up where we left off and do even
more statistics and make it into, you know, something akin
(16:09):
to the stats that baseball has, for instance, you know,
where you're tracking everything. I don't know if we'll still
be doing this in five years. We are trying to
do our own version of a dating game that is like,
at least in our opinion, a little more progressive, a
little more inclusive. And so we'll see, you know, hopefully
we can get that sold and on the air. Appreciate
(16:36):
you guys both for participating. Thanks for having us. This
was fun. Yeah, this has been a blast. This was
so awesome. Lizzie Pacing Chad Coulching are the hosts of
the podcast Game of Roses. We have linked to their
new book, How to Win the Bachelor in our show notes. Also,
if you're watching the twenty twenty two season of The Bachelor, ABC,
(16:57):
I will say that listening to their podcast makes the
show just better, So definitely seek that out wherever you listen.
Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank, Research by David Job,
Booking by Lisa Dunn, editing help from Kashall Williams. Our
managing producer is Sasha Matthias, and our Executive producer is
mil LaBelle. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Thanks for listening.
Bushkin, This is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Junior, So well
you married. That's Nate Olakoya, a contestant of ABC's Bachelorette,
(00:42):
proposing to Michelle Young on National TV. The Bachelorette spent
off to ABC's The Bachelor is a competitive reality dating
show where contestants vie for the love of the lead,
aptly titled The Bachelor or The Bachelorette. With the start
of twenty twenty two, The Bachelor premiered it's twenty sixth season.
The franchise has been a popular mainstay for ABC, with
(01:03):
average viewership reaching over ten million in some seasons. I
love both The Bachelor and The Bachelorette. I've watched for
many seasons and at times I'd love to hate both
shows as well. Recently, I felt like the shows have
fallen out of step with reality. I mean, you have
almost entirely white player pools. There was a year where
(01:23):
both leads and all of their players were all white.
Twenty years later, we finally get a black bachelor. We
still have never seen a black woman when the ring
which is getting the final rows. There's still so much
that needs to happen. The past few seasons of the
show have tried to address its blind spots with regards
to race. Out of a combined forty four seasons, there
(01:47):
have been two black Bachelorettes and one black Bachelor so far.
But beyond the lack of inclusivity, watching the show is
difficult at times because it's premise feels dishonest. Everything you
see on that screen is a choice made by producers,
everything from what's actually happening on the screen, especially to
what they're not showing you. That's Chad Coulchin and Lizzie Peace,
(02:09):
who you heard earlier, are co hosts of Game of Roses,
a podcast about the Bachelor and Bachelor Rette franchises. I
enjoy listening because Chad and Lizzie talk about the show
in a very different way, not as a reality show
that chronicles to search for love, as the franchise purports
itself to be, but rather as a game with a prize.
(02:30):
And we meticulously recorded every play that has ever been
made by any player in the history of the game,
which gave us an in depth understanding of not only
the evolution of the game, but all of these different
statistical categories that allow us to apply metrics to strategy
for players coming into the game who want to try
to win the ring, the crown, get Top four, get
their million Instagram followers, or whatever their goals may be. Today,
(02:53):
we're talking to Lizzie and Chad not only about the
problems on this one reality show, but about how we
could take a more honest approach in producing and viewing
reality television. The belief that reality TV is real is
a solvable problem. Pretend that I've never watched this show
(03:19):
in my life, and just give me the most basic
description of The Bachelor you can. The Bachelor is a
ten round game of attrition where around thirty women try
to compete to date one man. And the way that
we sort of break down the show on our podcast
as well as the book that we have coming out,
(03:41):
is treating it like a game, as the end goal
being either to win the ring, to win the crown,
or around top four placement, because then you are guaranteed
a spot in Bachelor in Paradise, subsequent appearances on the show,
and can possibly get a million Instagram followers. It's funny
because I've known the show is not real, and most
(04:03):
of my arguments against it have to be with what
they're pressing forth as the ideal body type, the ideal race,
the ideal way to fall in love, and the ideal
family standard. Those are the practices that I argue with
the most. But what I'm hearing from you is that
it's there's more theater in this show than a regular
watcher would would even realize. Is that absolutely, it's pro
(04:25):
wrestling at this point, almost the kind of it is real.
I mean, every once in a while there is a
relationship that comes out of this show. There is potentially
even a family that does happen. It is rare, but
that's also part of the game. It's not real, yeah,
but the viewing audience, I think largely still believes it is.
(04:46):
So one segment of your podcast is there's a running
theme of the number of days and Lizzie, you do
you cover this portion the number of days without an
Asian Bachelor? Why is that important to note? Well, it
started out as the Days Without a Black Bachelor, the
DWAB as we call it, and we were tracking this
(05:06):
almost since the very beginning of our podcast until the
casting of Matt James, and so the day that his
premier aired, the DWAB finally went to zero, there was
finally zero days without a black Bachelor. For us, especially
having watched you know, the history of the whole series,
we have basically seen how racist the casting practices are.
(05:30):
I mean, you have almost entirely white player pools. There
was a year where both leads and all of their
players were all white. Years later we finally get a
black bachelor. We still have never seen a black woman
win the ring, which is getting the final rows. There's
still so much that needs to happen. And during Matt
(05:52):
James this season, even though they had the most diverse
player pool of all time, they were getting a proportionately
lower amount of screen time than the white players during
that season. Now we have days without an Asian Bachelor
because there hasn't been an Asian lead, There's been very
low Asian representation in terms of the players as well.
It's important for us to keep holding them accountable, to
(06:16):
make sure that you know, it's not a show upholding
white supremacy essentially. And I think it's important to note
too that it's not just about who's getting cast or
who the leads are. Those are all subjective choices, obviously,
but so are the stories being told and who makes
it into the final four. The leads don't actually choose
who gets the first impression Rose, who gets to go
(06:38):
on the dates, who gets the group date Roses. That's
all done by producers. When we think about things like
the reckonings that kind of begin to happen in society,
and it seemed like, and especially into different types of industry,
There's one in the cooking industry, there's one of course
in Hollywood, and just everywhere. It just seemed like there
are ripple effects of people waking up to the realities
(06:58):
of racism. So when we talk about race and this
show specifically, we talk about these being subjective choices. Do
you think a show like The Bachelor can be reimagined
to position itself as a reality show that is about
love in the current era for us, we think that
they need to embrace social media rather than run away
(07:19):
from it, as they seem to be doing with the
Bachelor Paradise storyline this year. I think they need to
catch up to where society is. They've been very slow moving.
You know, they've been making it up in terms of race,
but they've only featured one openly LGBTQ plus player during
a main game season. That was Jamie King on Nick
(07:41):
Baile's Season twenty one versus. You know, it's like one
in five young people identify as LGBTQ plus at this point,
So it's like, if you want to make more money
and keep going and not be seen as this relic,
we think that the game has to move forward and
start representing. You know what love stories in our country
(08:04):
actually look like. They don't embrace a lot of marginalization,
so they don't necessarily disability size. They'd certainly have a
certain archetype that they got there. Do you think that
any of those things are things they get addressed if
it moves from network television to a streaming platform, do
they have an incentive to even try to address those issues?
(08:24):
Do you think they even see them as issues? Well,
they are experimenting right now. They had a bisexual bachelorette
in Bachelor Australia some of the offshoot shows. They are
trying things out and seeing what the reactions are, and
I think we'll probably definitely see a bisexual lead at
(08:47):
some point. Do you think you'll ever see a plus
size lead or plus size contestant. We've had a couple
plus size contestants and they tried to pitch Bob Guinea,
the Bachelor of season four, as a kind of non
traditional looking bachelor. He was like a little bigger than
as soon as he shows up as the bachelor. He
was a tall white dude, but like he wasn't you know,
(09:08):
like a jack bodybuilder type dude. And then as soon
as he shows up in the first thing they show
is him jogging and like getting in quotes in shape
to be the Bachelor. So even that was kind of
like overturned. And to answer your question, like do they
see these as problems? I don't know, whatever kind of
antiquated views they want to promote, whatever kind of psychological
(09:28):
torture they want to impart upon any of these players.
It's like, well, it's good TV. Well that what does
that mean though we're destroying the fabric of America? Is
that like for good TV? That's where we're at now?
So talking more about that, do you think it's actually
destroying the fabric of America? Because I'm I'm prone to hyperbole,
and I say yes, but talk about how yeah, it
(09:50):
absolutely is, because there's I mean, we just came out
of the Trump era and this notion that we can
just promote open lies through media, and there's going to
be a certain segment of the population who either does
outright believe it or behaves as though they do. We'll
get us into situations like we're at now, where nobody
trusts anything in the news, nobody trusts science, nobody trusts
(10:11):
anything because everybody thinks everything is a lie. I think
reality TV is I mean, it's not where it started,
but it's like throwing gasoline on the fire. It's always
about driving people into emotional breakdowns so that we can
watch that as entertainment. And I know that a lot
of people think Bachelor is just kind of like a frivolous,
guilty pleasure, but to me, it really is the most
accurate reflection of our current society, especially one in which
(10:34):
we just had a reality TV show host as President
of the United States. I like the ways in which
that you guys are critical of the show by you know,
bringing it into reality and talking about the elements of
it that aren't real. I think that's important, and I
think you guys definitely have encouraged a different way to
watch The Bachelor, but you guys also have some ideas
of how the show can be improved or a better
(10:55):
version of a dating show. Do you guys want to
talk me through what some of those are. We would
like to see a more inclusive, more honest reality show
basically that's more clear about what people are going on
reality dating shows for, and just a more honest approach
to reality television. I think for the past twenty years
(11:17):
and all reality TV, there has been this line drawn
between the producers and the audience, and the producers saying
they can't see behind the curtain. The thing we're making
is this lie and they're eating it up, and that's
how we're making our money. But audiences are like so
much more savvy now. We all basically are making reality
TV shows in our instagrams and our TikTok's twenty four
(11:39):
hours a day. We understand how things are produced now.
I think all reality shows should step out of the
shadows and be much more transparent about the production elements
of it, and even maybe have that be a component
of the show itself. Every once in a while, especially
in Bachelor, you'll see a producer kind of like sneak
out of the shadows to have a conversation with somebody
or whatever. But I think you can have all that stuff,
(12:00):
Like right up front, what do you think we lose
by mining our own lives for content in this way?
Mindfulness being in the present moment. I think we have
different opinions on this. For me, I'm ready for the
chip in my head. I want to live in the
metaverse now. I think everything should be content at all times.
We are moving very quickly towards a society in which
(12:21):
everything has recorded twenty four hours a day, and the
job will really be curation. It will be who can
find the best, most interesting things if you look at like,
do you know Tank Sinatra, that meme artist? Yes, I've
afforded a lot of Tank Sinatra memes to my friends.
I follow him on Instagram. He also does Influencers in
the Wild that is literally just videos of people making
(12:42):
content that we watch and laugh at. So now content
is watching people making content, and eventually it's going to
be people sleeping, people just like sitting on their couch.
People will start getting famous for those things once we're
recording everything all the time, and I'm down for it.
There's a hotel in Japan that you can stay out
(13:03):
for free, but they just record you the whole time.
Is that good. What can listeners do if they want
to see the quality of their reality television improved with
(13:25):
shows like The Bachelor or anything else that they love watching.
Have a higher level of scrutiny for everything you're watching.
Always be asking yourself when you see anything on any screen,
why am I seeing this? Who wants me to see this?
And why do they want me to see it? Like
they're presenting it. Everything you see on that screen is
a choice made by producers, everything from what's actually happening
(13:48):
on the screen, especially to what they're not showing you.
There's so much media being generated, and now with deep fakes,
anything you want can be generated. Anyone can say anything. Yeah,
and especially I would say, no one is as evil
or as good as they probably appear given the edit.
They need these types of basic archetypes in every season.
(14:10):
Villains Fools we have We have broken down into twelve
archetypes in our book. But keep those in mind and
do not send threats or any hate towards people that
you don't know all the internet. How do you think
that results in improving the reality television? Like? What do
you think will come of that? I mean, ideally you
(14:31):
don't see players suffer from mental illness the way that
you were seeing a lot right now. And this has
been going on since season one. Linnise Adams, the first
black woman to appear on the show, who actually got
the first kiss in season one, went through like horrible
mental illness and started self medicating after she got a
(14:55):
huge racist backlash against her appearance, like all of these
white supremacists put videos of her on websites and stuff.
It's hard to prepare for the mental toll that having
yourself scrutinized, seeing yourself edited in all sorts of ways,
saying things that you never said, affects the players. What
(15:25):
do you guys see for the future of Game of Roses?
What do you guys see for the future of The
Bachelor in five to ten years, you guys still going
to be doing this? Do you guys think you'll get
tired of it? What will it look like? And do
you think it will be improved? What do you expect
that it looks like as you guys continue on, We're
really hoping our book comes out, How to Win the Bachelor,
and I think it will change the way people watch
(15:47):
the show. That's one of our goals and it adds
like a what we think is a fun element to
treat it as a sport, and we think that more
and more people will and we'll get you know, we
did some statistical work on this, but we're hoping, you know,
others pick up where we left off and do even
more statistics and make it into, you know, something akin
(16:09):
to the stats that baseball has, for instance, you know,
where you're tracking everything. I don't know if we'll still
be doing this in five years. We are trying to
do our own version of a dating game that is like,
at least in our opinion, a little more progressive, a
little more inclusive. And so we'll see, you know, hopefully
we can get that sold and on the air. Appreciate
(16:36):
you guys both for participating. Thanks for having us. This
was fun. Yeah, this has been a blast. This was
so awesome. Lizzie Pacing Chad Coulching are the hosts of
the podcast Game of Roses. We have linked to their
new book, How to Win the Bachelor in our show notes. Also,
if you're watching the twenty twenty two season of The Bachelor, ABC,
(16:57):
I will say that listening to their podcast makes the
show just better, So definitely seek that out wherever you listen.
Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank, Research by David Job,
Booking by Lisa Dunn, editing help from Kashall Williams. Our
managing producer is Sasha Matthias, and our Executive producer is
mil LaBelle. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Thanks for listening.
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