September 8, 2021 • 22 mins
Mike Gauyo is a TV writer in LA including work on Insecure (HBO) and Ginny & Georgia (Netflix). He’s the founder of The Black Boy Writes Black Girl Writes Mentorship Initiative that is paving pathways for emerging Black writers in Hollywood.
Here are some resources Gauyo recommends in this episode:
Black Boy Writes Black Girl Writes
The Screenwriters Rant Room Podcast
The Screenwriter's Bible, A Complete Guide to Writing, Formatting, and Selling Your Script by David Trottier
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. We should
be allowed to take up space, not just allowed to
take up space. We should be just be taking up
space ourselves because we deserve it. In recent years, calls
for more diverse representation in Hollywood and show business have
(00:36):
grown louder and more frequent, whether it's April Rains starting
the hashtag oscar so white or writer director actor Issa
Ray using her large following to be rooting for everybody black.
There have been many public calls for action around and
criticism of the lack of visibility for non white folks
in Hollywood. Without the visibility, there's no change. Without visibility,
(00:58):
there's no access. So it's really about getting in front
of as many eyes and ears as possible to get
your story out there. And in order to tell a store,
you need to be in the room where stories are written,
specifically writers rooms. According to a twenty seventeen report on
representation in Hollywood and in television, of nearly four thousand writers,
(01:20):
four point eight percent of them were black, and over
half of all shows have zero black writers. Mike Goyo
is one of the very few who have made it
to the inside we're in this space now. We have
to build out these programs for ourselves, because if we
don't build them out, everything will remain the same. So
we have to kind of like take the initiative to
(01:43):
do that. Goya's most recent job was writing for a
little show on HBO. You might have heard to be
shout out on a previous Solvable episode. That show is
called Insecure and Today. Goyo is also the founder of
a mentorship organization called Black Boy Rights and Black Girl Rights.
They help burgeoning writers not only find their footing when
entering a largely white landscape, but also offer support and
(02:06):
a network as they continue to grow their careers in Hollywood.
The lack of creatives of color in positions of power
in Hollywood if solvable. I met Etha early twenty fifteen,
and like, she had a mixer at her production company
for creatives of color, and I went to that mixer,
(02:28):
met her for all of two minutes. But Etha, I
mean I credit her to helping me in my career.
She has always helped up and coming creatives. And I
met several people there that became my people, that became
my tribe of people. She was like, you know, look
to the people in the room to grow with. And
that's exactly what I did, you know, and that is
(02:49):
my group chat like that is those are my people.
We all came up at the same time, we all
got staffed around the same time, we all continue to
rise around the same time. And she really helped make
that happen. So it's about how are all these creatives
that are out here, creatives of colors that are coming
up the business, how they're helping others come up. And
(03:12):
I want to be able to do the same thing. Originally,
you weren't going to be a writer. So tell me
what your aspirations were or what your parents wanted you
to be originally. You know what, I love that last
minute correction there, because it really was my parents. I
was like, my aspirations, I don't think I knew what
(03:34):
they were until my parents told me what they were. No, yeah,
I was, you know, being groomed to be a doctor
by my parents, you know, from a young age. That's
the road I went down. I didn't know anything else.
But once I got to college and I started taking
(03:54):
you know, theater classes and screenwriting classes, I was like,
oh wow, I really enjoy this. I also came across
you know, organic chemistry and was like, oh, okay, this
is this is the enemy. Definitely not getting past this
level before you made that switch. You're a child of
(04:14):
Haitian immigrants. I am. The earthquake in Haiti in twenty
ten it bore some influence on making the switch from
becoming a doctor to being fully focused on writing. Can
you talk a little bit about that Ronald did his research.
Basically what happened was my both my parents and my
sister were in Haiti during the earthquake, so we couldn't
(04:35):
have reached them for three days, so we were thinking
the worst at the time. My little brother, who's he's
twelve years younger than me, he was in my care
at the time, so I'm also having to think of like,
oh my god, like, okay, my parents can't locate them.
I'm like, you know, trying to put aside thoughts about
like the idea of raising my little brother alone. So
(04:58):
after discovering they were okay and everything was fine, and
you know, they eventually flew back to the States. I
really had an aha moment of like, just life too
short to live for other people, and I was really
kind of living for everyone else but myself. I was
living for my parents. It just wasn't working for me.
(05:20):
I was really kind of like honestly depressed. That's when
I decided to change my major in the theater with
a concentration in creative writing. And then I also came
out in the same year to my parents too, So
that was that was what was that like for them?
I mean it was man when I when I changed
(05:41):
career path, my mother cried, was like, I can't believe
you're doing this. Oh you were, you know, on such
a good path. Now you're writing. I don't even know
what that is, what does that even mean? And then
my dad was like, it's gonna be all right, just
let him fly, like, let him do what he wants
to do. He was very supportive in that way. And
then I was, oh, fantastic. And then later that year
(06:03):
when I came out, like my dad was crying and
my mom was like, let him do what he wants,
like you said, let him be free. I love that.
So yeah, that was really a pivotal year for me,
not just in my career what would become my career,
but in my life. You know, your story really resonates
with me because I was in it for most of
(06:25):
my adult life. I'm still fairly due to this job,
so I appreciate that. So making that adjustment was something
that it was easy to wrap my head around because
it was my dream job. But there were some difficulties
in terms of switching industries and learning the industry and
learning the people around me. My Granted, I don't think
you did a career switch, but even starting in this
(06:47):
career in this world, tell me what that world was like,
especially for you a black man, Like, what was that like?
Interacting with all these folks and even though it is
your dream job, what was that like? After graduating college,
I knew that I wanted to pursue television. I knew
I wanted to move to LA So I was making
plans to move to LA. While making those plans, I
(07:08):
was working as a production assistant in Boston. You know.
I worked on the Equalizer as a production assistant with
Denzel Washington. I worked on American Idol. I worked on
a few other reality TV shows. But when I was
working on American Idol, who was in Boston for their
Boston auditions, I happened to mention a production like, Hey,
I'm moving to LA in a month, and they're like, okay, great.
(07:31):
Once he moved to La, come work with us, and
I was like, oh, say no. More So, once I moved,
I had a job which was which was great. But
to your question, like when I got here, I felt like, Okay,
this is the opportunity I was asking the universe for.
(07:51):
So I need to kind of really focus and make
some connections, start networking. Part of the my success has
been building my network. And what I came to realize
very quickly that my network will dictate my net worth
in this business, and it's really about who you know
(08:12):
as well as your talent. Some have been able to
succeed with you know, without both, but as if you're
a person of color, you will most likely you will
need both. It's far and being a person of color
in this industry trying to come up and being able
(08:34):
to create some type of like sustainable pathway program for
other writers or some type of like access that stays
open for us is really important. So much of Hollywood
is about who you know across all areas of work.
Researchers have found that people in positions of power demonstrate
(08:56):
unconscious bias that's when we hire people who look like
us or have a similar background or path to the
one we followed. Some people have a conscious bias too,
of course, which leads to the same result. Doors shut
to people of color in TV and film. The many
white writers making it bring on other white writers, who
in turn bring on more white writers. Only seven of
(09:18):
every twenty writers is currently a person of color. Discrimination
is perpetuated Mike with your organization, black boy writes, black
(09:38):
girl writes, Are you seeking to create work and opportunities
to overlooked folks in writing or is it more that
you're trying to teach them about writing? Or is it both?
It's really both. Once you're in the program, some of
the features include writer round tables with other writers in
the business who are established, and we try to invite
(10:00):
as many people that feel like relatable to our mentees
imparting you know, tips about writing and also just like
writer's room etiquette and things like that, like things you
would normally you would not know unless you were in
a writer's room. But it is also about providing access.
You know, these conversations that we're having with these you know,
(10:23):
established writers or like intimate conversations where they get to
be free to ask any type of question they'd like
to ask. They have some face time with the writers.
They get the writers contact information so that they can
contact them themselves and build like a personal their own,
like genuine personal relationship with that person. I try to
provide them with access to securing general meetings with executives.
(10:48):
It's really about creating a sense of visibility for them
so that you can get the access that you need. Also,
once the program is over, we have an alumni system
where we're not going to let you just go off
on your own and expect you to fly. Yeah, it's
like it's like it's that thing of like when a
(11:09):
mother bird like watches there baby fly off the branch.
They at least look down and make sure that they
made it, like that they're okay. So as soon as
like the program's over and it's really just a year program,
the intention is to keep up with all our alumni
and make sure that they are okay, make sure they've
(11:30):
made it, make sure that they still have what they need.
So Mike, like you you give them a lot, Like
that's a lot for a person to get, like, especially
starting off as a writer. I imagine that this has
to be connected to something that you felt was lacking
as you were coming up in the program, Like man,
I wish it I had would have had this. I
wonder if you have any stories or anything that are
(11:51):
attached to what you did not have a kind of
what you had to fight for an advocate for yourself
growing up as a young black writer in the game.
You know what the funny thing is, Ronald, It's it's
because of what I had that I'm doing what I'm doing.
Do you know what I mean? It's of people that
came up before me, who gave me a helping hand,
(12:14):
do you know what I mean, and who like and
pulled me up. Yes. I credit my career to hard
work and to ambition, right, but I also credited to
people who have been mentors of mine and who have
kind of like helped me in my career. All I
want to do is be able to really pay that back,
(12:37):
pay that forward. I just went ahead with that idea
and started pursuing it. Mike Goyle was hardworking and fortunate
he was able to land a job when he first
moved to la He was able to mingle with successful
black writers, and he could afford to take the time
to show up in the places where they were and
(12:57):
offered to take them out for coffee or drinks. Persistence networking,
playing the game. It all takes time and effort. Mike,
how do you feel about the necessity of a POC
community having to build our own networks in order to
even stand a chance. That isn't necessarily the case for
(13:21):
white folks, or it might be a little more naturally
built in for white folks than it is for black
folks who have to build our own network. I think
you hit it right on the head and the last
sentence there, it's like it's just they have been able
to build it out in a way that we have
not had the opportunity to, or when we have had
the opportunity to, you know, Telsa, it getting burned down.
(13:45):
So um, I think that right, I'm just saying, we're
getting real. I'm just saying, but yeah, it's it's it's
it's it's not as natural for us, and that's why
we have to continue to work at it. But it's
this thing of like we're in this space now where
(14:08):
we have to build out these programs for ourselves because
if we don't build them out, everything will remain the same.
So we have to kind of like take the initiative
to do that. Do we have allies who want to
help us, Absolutely, but we still have to put ourselves
in that space of building that out for ourselves. So
(14:28):
I think some of the stats that come to Hollywood
and writing and show business generally skew largely white. I mean,
a couple years ago we had that controversy of hashtag
oscars so white, and in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, seventy
percent of showrunners were men, eighty two percent were white.
How does your program helping to address those types of
(14:49):
issues or how do you how do you hope to
address those types of issues in the future. It's really
about like leveling the playing field and when it comes
to access, and that's what I'm trying to provide with
the program, is creating the access so that there can
be more showrunners of color. There can be more you know,
high level writers the writers room who are people of color.
(15:11):
Mike like, I could totally see your program continuing to
expand and fill these spaces in a major way. But
one thing I'm thinking right now is that you also
have an individual career. You're working on your own writing
and growth and professional ambitions. So even though your mentorship
program is clearly rewarding and important, the burden of this
kind of work often falls on us as marginalized people
(15:34):
to simultaneously lift each other up while lifting ourselves. And
that's a lot of lifting, you know. I'm thinking about
how a couple of weeks ago, we talked about this
with doctor Joy Harden Bradford. She runs therapy for Black girls,
and she talked about how part of showing up for
her community was also saying no from time to time
and making time for herself. So how do you strike
(15:55):
the balance between helping others and helping yourself? Ronald, You
are asking all the right questions. You're asking questions that
I think about on a daily basis, because right now,
I mean, in terms of the program, like a one
man band, I have a producing partner. Her name is
Ashley Aaronson. She's fantastic and who's really helped me build
(16:19):
out the program. She's helped me build the site like
she has been fantastic. But the thing is, for the
most part, it's just been myself putting this program together.
And I had some time in between jobs to really
be there for my mentees. And I continue to be
(16:40):
there for my mentees, but am currently in a writer's
room now in the process of contract negotiations over something
that I'm extremely excited about and we'll share later down
the line. And I'm like pitching TV shows and features.
It's just there isn't a lot of time, so I
(17:00):
have had to be very conscious of how I allocate
my time so that I'm making time for what matters
to me. Let's look five to ten years down the line,
what does success look like for you, Mike personally, and
(17:24):
what does it look like for the program and for
black folks in writing in show business. If everything is
successful as you as you hope for it to be
more content about people of color who are experiencing, you know,
different things. We're not monolithic, you know, we live varied experiences.
(17:46):
Several shows can exist about you know, a group of
friends and there not be one girlfriends or one insecure
or you know, or one living single. You know what
I mean. Equality in the sense of like the higher
of what it looks like, what those numbers look like
that you mentioned earlier, like having more women of color
(18:07):
running shows, having more LGPTQ, individuals of color running shows.
Those things are important. So it looks like true equality,
and it looks like a television slate that's not monolithic
or not only catering to one type of way of
(18:29):
being black. And what about you personally? Of course, I
want the program to continue to flourish. I want to
be able to expand the program to like colleges and
high schools, create a scholarship fund for young aspiring writers
to have access to tools that they need in order
(18:51):
to get to where they want to be. That can
take someone who's ten and has a dream and you know,
take them all the way into the writer's room once
they're ready. So I want to point out that I
asked about your personal goals and where you are at
five to ten years, if you still talked about your program,
which is that's not that's crazy. It's almost like you're right, Umm,
(19:15):
I'm truly always thinking about it myself, myself creating shows.
Of course. I mean, I want, you know, to have
my own shows on air. I want to be able
to support other writers who have fantastic ideas who just
can't get a shot, you know, build out war programs
(19:36):
to help other writers get to where they'd like to be, Like,
I love it. I'm not bad at it. I mean,
that's it. You know. I just got here. Okay, I
just got here, and I'm grateful to be here. So
(20:05):
what can our listeners do to help I'm listening to
this and I'm like, man, I want to really support
I care about black representation in writer's room. Maybe I'm
somebody who loved Insecure and like, man, I'd love to
see more things like that on television. At the same time,
what can listeners do to help support this? Listen, there's
like over four hundred shows on air, So when we're
(20:26):
putting our shows on air and we're actually getting a shot,
watch that would that would really help to watch these
shows and even beyond watching the show, look them up
see ways in which you can like help support their careers,
specifically with the program. You know, if anyone out there
would like to reach out who are interested in investing
(20:49):
and you know, like the idea of this program existing
and living on for many years, please feel free to
reach out to me and contact me. Because without visibility,
there's no change. Without visibility, there's no access. So it's
really about getting in front of as many eyes and
(21:10):
ears as possible to get your story out there, to
be able to build that support. Do you have any
reading resources to help become a sharper writer or anything
to become a stronger networker, anything that helped you persevere
in your journey. Oh my god, Podcasts, the Writer's Room,
the Screenwriter's Room. I don't know if you know Hilliard
(21:32):
guests like he Hilliard is fantastic. He has a fantastic podcast.
The WGA has a great podcast. One of the first
screenwriting books I ever got with a screenwriters Bible. I
suggest every writer have that, though. I really listened to
like podcasts, podcast word my thing. Mike, this has been
(21:52):
an incredible conversation. Thank you so much for taking the
time to be with us, Ronald, Thank you so much
for having me. This is this was great. Thank you
guys for reaching out. Mike Oyo is a television writer
and founder of Black Boy Rights Black Girl Rights mentorship program.
Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank, research by David Jah,
(22:13):
booking by Lisa Dunn. Our managing producer is Sasha Matthias,
and our executive producer is Mio Lobel. I'm Ronald Young Junior,
Thanks for listening,
Pushkin, this is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. We should
be allowed to take up space, not just allowed to
take up space. We should be just be taking up
space ourselves because we deserve it. In recent years, calls
for more diverse representation in Hollywood and show business have
(00:36):
grown louder and more frequent, whether it's April Rains starting
the hashtag oscar so white or writer director actor Issa
Ray using her large following to be rooting for everybody black.
There have been many public calls for action around and
criticism of the lack of visibility for non white folks
in Hollywood. Without the visibility, there's no change. Without visibility,
(00:58):
there's no access. So it's really about getting in front
of as many eyes and ears as possible to get
your story out there. And in order to tell a store,
you need to be in the room where stories are written,
specifically writers rooms. According to a twenty seventeen report on
representation in Hollywood and in television, of nearly four thousand writers,
(01:20):
four point eight percent of them were black, and over
half of all shows have zero black writers. Mike Goyo
is one of the very few who have made it
to the inside we're in this space now. We have
to build out these programs for ourselves, because if we
don't build them out, everything will remain the same. So
we have to kind of like take the initiative to
(01:43):
do that. Goya's most recent job was writing for a
little show on HBO. You might have heard to be
shout out on a previous Solvable episode. That show is
called Insecure and Today. Goyo is also the founder of
a mentorship organization called Black Boy Rights and Black Girl Rights.
They help burgeoning writers not only find their footing when
entering a largely white landscape, but also offer support and
(02:06):
a network as they continue to grow their careers in Hollywood.
The lack of creatives of color in positions of power
in Hollywood if solvable. I met Etha early twenty fifteen,
and like, she had a mixer at her production company
for creatives of color, and I went to that mixer,
(02:28):
met her for all of two minutes. But Etha, I
mean I credit her to helping me in my career.
She has always helped up and coming creatives. And I
met several people there that became my people, that became
my tribe of people. She was like, you know, look
to the people in the room to grow with. And
that's exactly what I did, you know, and that is
(02:49):
my group chat like that is those are my people.
We all came up at the same time, we all
got staffed around the same time, we all continue to
rise around the same time. And she really helped make
that happen. So it's about how are all these creatives
that are out here, creatives of colors that are coming
up the business, how they're helping others come up. And
(03:12):
I want to be able to do the same thing. Originally,
you weren't going to be a writer. So tell me
what your aspirations were or what your parents wanted you
to be originally. You know what, I love that last
minute correction there, because it really was my parents. I
was like, my aspirations, I don't think I knew what
(03:34):
they were until my parents told me what they were. No, yeah,
I was, you know, being groomed to be a doctor
by my parents, you know, from a young age. That's
the road I went down. I didn't know anything else.
But once I got to college and I started taking
(03:54):
you know, theater classes and screenwriting classes, I was like,
oh wow, I really enjoy this. I also came across
you know, organic chemistry and was like, oh, okay, this
is this is the enemy. Definitely not getting past this
level before you made that switch. You're a child of
(04:14):
Haitian immigrants. I am. The earthquake in Haiti in twenty
ten it bore some influence on making the switch from
becoming a doctor to being fully focused on writing. Can
you talk a little bit about that Ronald did his research.
Basically what happened was my both my parents and my
sister were in Haiti during the earthquake, so we couldn't
(04:35):
have reached them for three days, so we were thinking
the worst at the time. My little brother, who's he's
twelve years younger than me, he was in my care
at the time, so I'm also having to think of like,
oh my god, like, okay, my parents can't locate them.
I'm like, you know, trying to put aside thoughts about
like the idea of raising my little brother alone. So
(04:58):
after discovering they were okay and everything was fine, and
you know, they eventually flew back to the States. I
really had an aha moment of like, just life too
short to live for other people, and I was really
kind of living for everyone else but myself. I was
living for my parents. It just wasn't working for me.
(05:20):
I was really kind of like honestly depressed. That's when
I decided to change my major in the theater with
a concentration in creative writing. And then I also came
out in the same year to my parents too, So
that was that was what was that like for them?
I mean it was man when I when I changed
(05:41):
career path, my mother cried, was like, I can't believe
you're doing this. Oh you were, you know, on such
a good path. Now you're writing. I don't even know
what that is, what does that even mean? And then
my dad was like, it's gonna be all right, just
let him fly, like, let him do what he wants
to do. He was very supportive in that way. And
then I was, oh, fantastic. And then later that year
(06:03):
when I came out, like my dad was crying and
my mom was like, let him do what he wants,
like you said, let him be free. I love that.
So yeah, that was really a pivotal year for me,
not just in my career what would become my career,
but in my life. You know, your story really resonates
with me because I was in it for most of
(06:25):
my adult life. I'm still fairly due to this job,
so I appreciate that. So making that adjustment was something
that it was easy to wrap my head around because
it was my dream job. But there were some difficulties
in terms of switching industries and learning the industry and
learning the people around me. My Granted, I don't think
you did a career switch, but even starting in this
(06:47):
career in this world, tell me what that world was like,
especially for you a black man, Like, what was that like?
Interacting with all these folks and even though it is
your dream job, what was that like? After graduating college,
I knew that I wanted to pursue television. I knew
I wanted to move to LA So I was making
plans to move to LA. While making those plans, I
(07:08):
was working as a production assistant in Boston. You know.
I worked on the Equalizer as a production assistant with
Denzel Washington. I worked on American Idol. I worked on
a few other reality TV shows. But when I was
working on American Idol, who was in Boston for their
Boston auditions, I happened to mention a production like, Hey,
I'm moving to LA in a month, and they're like, okay, great.
(07:31):
Once he moved to La, come work with us, and
I was like, oh, say no. More So, once I moved,
I had a job which was which was great. But
to your question, like when I got here, I felt like, Okay,
this is the opportunity I was asking the universe for.
(07:51):
So I need to kind of really focus and make
some connections, start networking. Part of the my success has
been building my network. And what I came to realize
very quickly that my network will dictate my net worth
in this business, and it's really about who you know
(08:12):
as well as your talent. Some have been able to
succeed with you know, without both, but as if you're
a person of color, you will most likely you will
need both. It's far and being a person of color
in this industry trying to come up and being able
(08:34):
to create some type of like sustainable pathway program for
other writers or some type of like access that stays
open for us is really important. So much of Hollywood
is about who you know across all areas of work.
Researchers have found that people in positions of power demonstrate
(08:56):
unconscious bias that's when we hire people who look like
us or have a similar background or path to the
one we followed. Some people have a conscious bias too,
of course, which leads to the same result. Doors shut
to people of color in TV and film. The many
white writers making it bring on other white writers, who
in turn bring on more white writers. Only seven of
(09:18):
every twenty writers is currently a person of color. Discrimination
is perpetuated Mike with your organization, black boy writes, black
(09:38):
girl writes, Are you seeking to create work and opportunities
to overlooked folks in writing or is it more that
you're trying to teach them about writing? Or is it both?
It's really both. Once you're in the program, some of
the features include writer round tables with other writers in
the business who are established, and we try to invite
(10:00):
as many people that feel like relatable to our mentees
imparting you know, tips about writing and also just like
writer's room etiquette and things like that, like things you
would normally you would not know unless you were in
a writer's room. But it is also about providing access.
You know, these conversations that we're having with these you know,
(10:23):
established writers or like intimate conversations where they get to
be free to ask any type of question they'd like
to ask. They have some face time with the writers.
They get the writers contact information so that they can
contact them themselves and build like a personal their own,
like genuine personal relationship with that person. I try to
provide them with access to securing general meetings with executives.
(10:48):
It's really about creating a sense of visibility for them
so that you can get the access that you need. Also,
once the program is over, we have an alumni system
where we're not going to let you just go off
on your own and expect you to fly. Yeah, it's
like it's like it's that thing of like when a
(11:09):
mother bird like watches there baby fly off the branch.
They at least look down and make sure that they
made it, like that they're okay. So as soon as
like the program's over and it's really just a year program,
the intention is to keep up with all our alumni
and make sure that they are okay, make sure they've
(11:30):
made it, make sure that they still have what they need.
So Mike, like you you give them a lot, Like
that's a lot for a person to get, like, especially
starting off as a writer. I imagine that this has
to be connected to something that you felt was lacking
as you were coming up in the program, Like man,
I wish it I had would have had this. I
wonder if you have any stories or anything that are
(11:51):
attached to what you did not have a kind of
what you had to fight for an advocate for yourself
growing up as a young black writer in the game.
You know what the funny thing is, Ronald, It's it's
because of what I had that I'm doing what I'm doing.
Do you know what I mean? It's of people that
came up before me, who gave me a helping hand,
(12:14):
do you know what I mean, and who like and
pulled me up. Yes. I credit my career to hard
work and to ambition, right, but I also credited to
people who have been mentors of mine and who have
kind of like helped me in my career. All I
want to do is be able to really pay that back,
(12:37):
pay that forward. I just went ahead with that idea
and started pursuing it. Mike Goyle was hardworking and fortunate
he was able to land a job when he first
moved to la He was able to mingle with successful
black writers, and he could afford to take the time
to show up in the places where they were and
(12:57):
offered to take them out for coffee or drinks. Persistence networking,
playing the game. It all takes time and effort. Mike,
how do you feel about the necessity of a POC
community having to build our own networks in order to
even stand a chance. That isn't necessarily the case for
(13:21):
white folks, or it might be a little more naturally
built in for white folks than it is for black
folks who have to build our own network. I think
you hit it right on the head and the last
sentence there, it's like it's just they have been able
to build it out in a way that we have
not had the opportunity to, or when we have had
the opportunity to, you know, Telsa, it getting burned down.
(13:45):
So um, I think that right, I'm just saying, we're
getting real. I'm just saying, but yeah, it's it's it's
it's it's not as natural for us, and that's why
we have to continue to work at it. But it's
this thing of like we're in this space now where
(14:08):
we have to build out these programs for ourselves because
if we don't build them out, everything will remain the same.
So we have to kind of like take the initiative
to do that. Do we have allies who want to
help us, Absolutely, but we still have to put ourselves
in that space of building that out for ourselves. So
(14:28):
I think some of the stats that come to Hollywood
and writing and show business generally skew largely white. I mean,
a couple years ago we had that controversy of hashtag
oscars so white, and in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, seventy
percent of showrunners were men, eighty two percent were white.
How does your program helping to address those types of
(14:49):
issues or how do you how do you hope to
address those types of issues in the future. It's really
about like leveling the playing field and when it comes
to access, and that's what I'm trying to provide with
the program, is creating the access so that there can
be more showrunners of color. There can be more you know,
high level writers the writers room who are people of color.
(15:11):
Mike like, I could totally see your program continuing to
expand and fill these spaces in a major way. But
one thing I'm thinking right now is that you also
have an individual career. You're working on your own writing
and growth and professional ambitions. So even though your mentorship
program is clearly rewarding and important, the burden of this
kind of work often falls on us as marginalized people
(15:34):
to simultaneously lift each other up while lifting ourselves. And
that's a lot of lifting, you know. I'm thinking about
how a couple of weeks ago, we talked about this
with doctor Joy Harden Bradford. She runs therapy for Black girls,
and she talked about how part of showing up for
her community was also saying no from time to time
and making time for herself. So how do you strike
(15:55):
the balance between helping others and helping yourself? Ronald, You
are asking all the right questions. You're asking questions that
I think about on a daily basis, because right now,
I mean, in terms of the program, like a one
man band, I have a producing partner. Her name is
Ashley Aaronson. She's fantastic and who's really helped me build
(16:19):
out the program. She's helped me build the site like
she has been fantastic. But the thing is, for the
most part, it's just been myself putting this program together.
And I had some time in between jobs to really
be there for my mentees. And I continue to be
(16:40):
there for my mentees, but am currently in a writer's
room now in the process of contract negotiations over something
that I'm extremely excited about and we'll share later down
the line. And I'm like pitching TV shows and features.
It's just there isn't a lot of time, so I
(17:00):
have had to be very conscious of how I allocate
my time so that I'm making time for what matters
to me. Let's look five to ten years down the line,
what does success look like for you, Mike personally, and
(17:24):
what does it look like for the program and for
black folks in writing in show business. If everything is
successful as you as you hope for it to be
more content about people of color who are experiencing, you know,
different things. We're not monolithic, you know, we live varied experiences.
(17:46):
Several shows can exist about you know, a group of
friends and there not be one girlfriends or one insecure
or you know, or one living single. You know what
I mean. Equality in the sense of like the higher
of what it looks like, what those numbers look like
that you mentioned earlier, like having more women of color
(18:07):
running shows, having more LGPTQ, individuals of color running shows.
Those things are important. So it looks like true equality,
and it looks like a television slate that's not monolithic
or not only catering to one type of way of
(18:29):
being black. And what about you personally? Of course, I
want the program to continue to flourish. I want to
be able to expand the program to like colleges and
high schools, create a scholarship fund for young aspiring writers
to have access to tools that they need in order
(18:51):
to get to where they want to be. That can
take someone who's ten and has a dream and you know,
take them all the way into the writer's room once
they're ready. So I want to point out that I
asked about your personal goals and where you are at
five to ten years, if you still talked about your program,
which is that's not that's crazy. It's almost like you're right, Umm,
(19:15):
I'm truly always thinking about it myself, myself creating shows.
Of course. I mean, I want, you know, to have
my own shows on air. I want to be able
to support other writers who have fantastic ideas who just
can't get a shot, you know, build out war programs
(19:36):
to help other writers get to where they'd like to be, Like,
I love it. I'm not bad at it. I mean,
that's it. You know. I just got here. Okay, I
just got here, and I'm grateful to be here. So
(20:05):
what can our listeners do to help I'm listening to
this and I'm like, man, I want to really support
I care about black representation in writer's room. Maybe I'm
somebody who loved Insecure and like, man, I'd love to
see more things like that on television. At the same time,
what can listeners do to help support this? Listen, there's
like over four hundred shows on air, So when we're
(20:26):
putting our shows on air and we're actually getting a shot,
watch that would that would really help to watch these
shows and even beyond watching the show, look them up
see ways in which you can like help support their careers,
specifically with the program. You know, if anyone out there
would like to reach out who are interested in investing
(20:49):
and you know, like the idea of this program existing
and living on for many years, please feel free to
reach out to me and contact me. Because without visibility,
there's no change. Without visibility, there's no access. So it's
really about getting in front of as many eyes and
(21:10):
ears as possible to get your story out there, to
be able to build that support. Do you have any
reading resources to help become a sharper writer or anything
to become a stronger networker, anything that helped you persevere
in your journey. Oh my god, Podcasts, the Writer's Room,
the Screenwriter's Room. I don't know if you know Hilliard
(21:32):
guests like he Hilliard is fantastic. He has a fantastic podcast.
The WGA has a great podcast. One of the first
screenwriting books I ever got with a screenwriters Bible. I
suggest every writer have that, though. I really listened to
like podcasts, podcast word my thing. Mike, this has been
(21:52):
an incredible conversation. Thank you so much for taking the
time to be with us, Ronald, Thank you so much
for having me. This is this was great. Thank you
guys for reaching out. Mike Oyo is a television writer
and founder of Black Boy Rights Black Girl Rights mentorship program.
Solvable is produced by Jocelyn Frank, research by David Jah,
(22:13):
booking by Lisa Dunn. Our managing producer is Sasha Matthias,
and our executive producer is Mio Lobel. I'm Ronald Young Junior,
Thanks for listening,
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