June 13, 2023 • 50 mins
Ready-to-wear designer Busayo Olupona talks about what it was like to leave her six-figure salaried job as a corporate attorney to pursue her dream of starting a fashion brand. From going broke to seeing her Made In Nigeria labeled clothing in Neiman Marcus, Busayo learned a lot along the way.
If you're into entrepreneurship and/or fashion, here are some books Busayo recommends:
The Fashion Designer Survival Guide by Mary Geller
The Purple Cow by Seth Godin
The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself by Michael Singer
Living an Examined Life: Wisdom for the Second Half of the Journey by James Hollis
Notes of a Native Son by James Baldwin
Native Son by Richard Wright
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I don't move back home with my parents. I don't
get a cheaper apartment. I don't make any of the
adjustments you have to make. When you do this like
your primary source of income and you are now starting
a fashion brand, I mean I did this in like
the dumbest way possible.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Busaio O Lupona spent her formative years in both Nigeria
and small town Davis, California. She made it to the
precipice of success with a lucrative career as a lawyer
at an elite New York City law firm, and then
left to start a fashion label in her thirties. Her
label is absolutely titled busaio Not only is it her name,
(00:59):
but in one of the many Nigerian dialects, Busaiyo means
to add joy, and adding joy to a dreary law
career was what first sparked Oloopona's entrepreneurial spirit to begin
with creating homemade designs she could wear in a professional
setting while utilizing the vibrant prints of her Nigerian youth.
(01:20):
And this is her Clothing Labels mission to bridge the
cultural gap between what business professionals can wear in states
and the more bold designs of West Africa. Ol Loopona's
story is about finding your joy and pursuing it at
all costs. This is started from the bottom, hard earned
success stories from people like us. Can you take me
(01:47):
back to your very first day of school in Davis, California.
It's your first day of middle school in the United States. Yeah,
tell me everything.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I remember. First of all, coming to America was like
I was in a boarding school in Nigeria. I was miserable.
So it was literally they being rescued like I. And
you know, I had had this fantasy right of what
America was like, and in some ways it had really
up until then would really met up to it. I
remember going to the my American grocery store for the
(02:22):
first time and seeing all these different types of fruits
and all these you know, fruits that are only read
about in books and then see like strawberries, like seeing
them in person. You know, there was just so many
things that were like a delight, right, And so I
remember it was Oliver Wendell Holmes's junior high school. I
was starting the eighth grade and I was supposed to
(02:43):
be starting ninth. Actually I had gone through school really fast,
so I was quite young. I was only twelve years
old and very young, yeah, super young, and in a
new country, right. I remember I had my hair wrapped
with so we have something in our culture called inrokiko,
which is hair threaded, like your hair streaded. So my
mom had done it for me, which is literally wrap
(03:04):
your head in like thread and it s took a
very popular style in Niger and throughout West Africa really,
and I remember I was writing traditionally dyed hand eyed
clothes and I just remember being so excited. And I
don't think that the fissure and the cracks came that
first day, but it's probably that first week right where
(03:28):
like the response to me was just not what I
dreamt of, you know. I thought I was gonna have
friends and I was gonna just I was so excited
to be in America, and it literally was like hellish.
And I remember, I don't remember if it was that
day or a few days later. I told my mom, like,
take my hair out of this thing. I don't want
to wear my hair like this anymore. The clothes, I
(03:49):
was like, I needed new clothes, and so, of course
all they could afford at the time was like closed
from Salvation in the army. She did everything to make
sure we were like, you know, dressed well and everything,
like God, I'm gonna start crying justin you know, just
because you know, we got here. And I was like,
these clothes that we brought, I'm not gonna wear them.
(04:10):
And of course they didn't have a ton of money.
My dad was an assistant professor, and which people will
assume that, oh, that means that you're making a really
good living, but with four children, actually not, you know,
he I think it was like thirty forty thousand dollars
a year or something like that, and trying to feed
like a family of sex and they're starting in a
new country. They didn't have very much, and so she
would buy these clothes for us from Salvation Army and
(04:31):
I would just be like, no, I don't I don't
want to wear these. You know, these are not like
what the kids in school were wearing. So I did
everything to try to mold in shape and become something
that was acceptable to my peers, right, But it never
really worked, you know, and was really socially isolated for
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
What was one that taunts you.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh God, how you want me solving the film The
Gods Must Be Crazy had just come out. So I
would sit there and like kids would click in my ear, like,
you know, because they speak souls loud, which I can pronounce.
Most of us can't say that sound. The sound is
aspiration in your in your throat essentially, Yeah, that's what
(05:15):
people call it. But so people would literally click in
my ear and like say, like, do you do you
talk like this? Do you guys wear clothes? Do you
live in trees? Spitballs? You know? I would have spitballs.
I hope kids don't do it anymore, like literally make
cover paper with spit, like blow it through like a
pen at you. Oh god, my hair. At one point,
(05:37):
it was like, you know, Medusa was the was the name.
There was so much, you know, and at this point
I start eating to kind of deal with it, right,
So then I'm overweight and so there's that you know,
challenge and that kind of torment. So there was a lot.
I mean, I think at that time too, the narrative
(05:57):
on the African continent was very poverty. People's perception of
Africa was really it's not like now where I actually
think that we've managed to complicate the narrative and like
we as you know, both the Africans on the continent
and living here are really telling a different story about
(06:18):
the place that we come from. But at that time
there was none of that. So it was literally like
starving children from Athiopia, you know, that was basically it.
Oh and then of course the animal narrative that this
was a continent, it was just full of animals, and
so there was just a lot of like do you
have a pet monkey? Do you have that? It's just
just stuff like now sounds ridiculous, but at that time
(06:41):
was completely the norm was completely.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
No norm and the sort of thing that you know,
what was to happen. As an adult, you could dismiss
them in such a way to say, obviously, these people
are like uninvolved a type of people. But as a kid, you.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Take it all in. Oh my gosh, you take it
all in. And I mean, there were so many good
things about that. Being so awful as it was, I
think I was so desperate to get the hell out
of Davis right like. That was very clear to me,
and it gave me a determination to get the hell
out of there, which was a total blessing.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Could your parents sympathize.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I think, yes, and no. I think they were going
through their own kind of immigration. Like immigration is actually
more traumatic than I think most of us really, I
don't even I didn't even start thinking about it till
very recently, in like the language of trauma, right, And
of course trauma is like a word that we now
throw around quite a bit and freely, so I'm actually
(07:37):
quite careful in how I use it. But I do
think that there's actually a huge amount of loss that
comes from I know, there's a huge amount of loss
that comes from leaving your home and starting out in
a new place. And they were kind of doing it
for the second time. I was actually born here, but
once my father finished grad school, like, we moved back
(07:57):
to Nigeria. So they were coming back and they'd been
here before, but they were going through their own challenges,
and I think they were raising teenagers, and they had
a lot of fear about out us losing our culture
or kind of getting sucked into kind of I think
there were things about America that scared them.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I mean, like I would imagine and I don't come
from a family of immigrants or you know, not any
immigration that happened a long time back. But I imagine
the dream for an immigrant parent would be take advantage
of the financial opportunity and take refuge in your own
home culture.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You got it. That was That was exactly it, and
that was the rule from day one for us. Was
like in this house, this is Nigeria. Out there, do
whatever you want, but in here, this is Nigeria.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Your dad's a professor. So you might think perhaps maybe
a little more, maybe it was a little more open
minded than I'm expecting. But what was expected of you?
What do you think they were hoping for your future?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I think what you said was really right, like you
actually described it so succinctly and perfectly, which is take
advantage of the economic opportunity that's available in America. But
in terms of your life path and your own personal values,
you continue to be as Nigerian as possible, which is
an impossible project, right, Like it is impossible, Like you know,
(09:26):
and the life of a Nigerian woman's actually quite prescribed
and defined, which is once you hit a certain age,
you get married and you have kids and that's that's that,
and you continue you replicate and in our culture, children
are like children are your inheritance. Children are everything, and
so for them it was like once you hit a
(09:47):
certain age, you get married, like twenty five twenty six basically,
and you have children. And I don't have children and
I'm not married, and so those things for them, I
think is challenging, right because I also made very different
choices with my professional wife, But for a very long time,
I kind of stayed on the path and the traditional
path that you know, looked really good from the outside,
(10:09):
that kind of really fit into what they wanted. But
I think that this kind of personal piece is also
really is really huge in our culture. It's a very
the life of a woman is very very clear. Oh
and I'm Nigerian, but specifically I'm Eurorobat, which is the
tribe that I come from.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
What does a career look like? Then, if you're expected
to be married with kids at twenty five, oh.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You're expected to do all of that. Like my father,
we had three girls and a boy. There was never
any distinction between where we were expected to accomplish at all.
Like it was like from day one you were expected
to produce, you were expected to be a rock star,
and that was the end of that. But simultaneously on
top of that, for women, you're also expected to bring
(10:52):
that same level of excellence to the home and be
a homemaker and all of those things. So when we
were growing up, professional achievement was a given. I think
what was different about it or kind of what was
on top of that was doctor, lawyer, architect, engineer, and
that was basically it. Right, there's a reason you have
(11:13):
so many Nigerian doctors. It's not because like they all
wanted to be doctors, you know in America, Like there's
so many. I mean, it's that's not it. Or an accountant,
sorry I forgot accounting.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Did any of those seem remotely appealing to you as
a kid.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I love the arts, I love theater. All the kids.
The only kids that were nice to me were the
theater kids, like the weirdo theater kids. And I say
that with such love and affection. I proudly am one
of them. And those were my friends. And that's what
I wanted to just wanted to be an actor when
I was younger, and my parents were like, well acting kidney,
like what we did not come to America for you
(11:51):
to be an actor, you know, And they had this
thing that they always said like you must have a certificate,
you know, like there's an idea that like a piece
of paper that no one can take away from you.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So that's like a diploma certificate.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, like not just a diploma, like you know, being
a doctor, you have an actual professional certification. If you're
a lawyer, you have a particular you know, if you're
an engineer. You know, these kind of professions where somebody
says you are skilled to do this.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I have never heard of put that way. That is
a great way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It's not a diploma.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Children, you must have a certificate.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Right, So no one can take your certificate from you. Right,
So that really leaves like four or five professions with certificates.
And so you know, my older sister is a doctor,
I'm a lawyer. My little sister's a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
How did you pick?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I picked law because this was the time where people
would say, if you don't know what to do, you
can go to law school and you can do anything
with it, which is not true. Like, if I could
leave one lesson on this entire conversation, do not go
to law school because you don't know what else to do,
and you think you can do anything with a law degree, because.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
That is not true.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
If you have a law degree, you can be a lawyer.
That's it. That was what I mean. I feel like
it's changed a little bit, but late nineties, like early
two thousands, it was like, oh, you know, if you're
stilling worrying, you can you know, there's so much versatility
with a law degree. You can do all sorts of
things with it. No, it's not true. You can be
a lawyer, that's it.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I wonder if that was the sneaky way just to
get your kids into well, if the law school.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I mean, you know, in law schools they have their
own racket. That's a whole nother conversation. But yeah, I
really believed it. I didn't know. Again, you have to
realize I was twenty when I graduated from cayl Wow.
So twenty yeah, because I started I was twelve years
old in eighth grade. So I was twenty years old
and you are sixteen. Yeah, I was a sixteen when
(13:41):
I first Yeah, it was a terrible idea. Wow, should
we say that we went to the same speek.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
We went we both were both Cowers.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Both when we both go Barris, We both went same
undergrad so that's why.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
But you you wind up after Berkeley, you end up
at NYU Law School.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Well, so there's a tension that's happening while I'm at
cayl right, because I want a major in theater. I'm
not that good and my parents are like no, so
I minor in theater and then I.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And major in business.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and I get into right, so the business program
is like difficult to get into. I get into it
and it's you don't turn it down, right, So.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
It's like best business schools in the country.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And I'm like, So I'm like at HOSS and I'm
like minory in theater and literally I might as well
have been to people like walking up the hill to
hass is like I'm being tortured. And then theater I'm like,
loving my life. But but that bifurcation of the thing
that your spirit and soul, the thing that makes you
feel awake, versus the thing that is expected. And at
(14:42):
this point I'm not it's not just my parents, it's
also my own. I think I've also bought into the
idea that you need a profession or a job that
gives you stability and gives you an identity and I
like the paycheck, right, Like you know, I like the paycheck.
I'm I'm really independent. I wanted to be able to
(15:03):
have my own kind of everything at a very young age.
So I came to visit my sister, older sister who
was at TULU, who's at NYU Medical School at the time,
fell in love with the city, fell so hard for
New York and was like, I'm moving here. I don't
care how it's going to happen. And I went back
(15:23):
to the ban and I was like, I got to
get out of here. And this was when the if
you don't know what to do and you're exploring and
your law degree and is versatile, it was like, what's
the answer, and why you law? That's the answer, and
that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
What was that experience?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Like?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I love law school? I absolutely loved it.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
What did you love about it?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
The education itself is a different type of thinking. It's
a different It's literally like learning a new language and
a new way of communicating. You are being forced to,
first of all, I think, just being analytical and ask
really specific and new questions, to look at a situation
a certain way, and then kind of consider all the
(16:07):
different ways that you can look at a situation like
such a situation. Also, the law school model is you know,
you're with the same one hundred people in your class
all day, kind of like going back to elementary school,
where like you're not changing classes, you're literally with the
same people for a whole year. So I just got
to meet some of the best, most interesting people in
(16:27):
my life and they're still in my life. I mean,
that's the thing. The joke about LUSCH was it attracts
all these people who don't know what else they want
to do, so you end up meeting some really dope people.
And like NYU was really fun, and like I think about, it,
laid the groundwork for so much of what I'm doing
now in so many ways, strange ways. So the study
(16:48):
of law is actually fantastic. It's the practice of law
that is not so fun.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
What were your first couple of jobs after?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
My first job was really long. It was a six
year job. I was an associate at Clary Gottlieb. I'm
not sure I should say their name, but is it
a fancy white shoe law firm downtown? Very How should
I say this? So when you graduate from certain law
schools in this country. There's something that's kind of in
some ways it's wonderful that they've really set up, which
(17:16):
is like you graduate from law school and you go
work for these corporate law firms and usually you owe
a lot of money and they pay an insane amount
of money and everybody kind of gets paid the same.
Like you can google the salaries now, which I don't
even know what they are, but at that time it
was like one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
And you have a secretary, you have an annex card,
you have cards that take you home every night. In
these jobs, they come to the school to interview you.
The firms come to the schools, especially like New York
schools from the Boston schools. Yeah, and they take you
out to all the fancy restaurants, the no Boos, the Boulets,
the Danielle's, like free, they pay for everything. It's like
(17:55):
a recruiting period. Right. You think you're eating free stuff.
It's not free, because nothing in life is free.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
They're going to get it out of you later. And
you also remember you owe. In my case, I owed money.
I owed a lot of money, and so I owed
from my undergrad and I owed from law school. So
you now have these like shiny toys being given to you.
It's a very hard thing to say no to, especially
when you are that young. And again, I think New
(18:23):
York City can be I love the city, but I
think sometimes there's there's it can be very intoxicating. And
I totally got intoxicated by like the yeah, the fanciness
of everything, you know, Like why is that well, I
mean think about it. You're twenty something, like I've never
seen this kind of money before my life. And these trappings,
(18:44):
you know, they're called golden handcuffs for a reason. Like
these trappings feel, they appear nice. Right, I'm gonna have
like my own office. I'm gonna have my own secretary.
I'm gonna have an AMEX card, you know, and you
know BlackBerry, all these things right that at that age,
I think I confused for like adulthood or something. So
I took the job at Cleary and it was phenomenal
(19:07):
legal training. But again, when you are not in alignment,
I don't care how much you dress up that pig
with all the lipsticks, It's not gonna work. And the
thing about law firms is you are there at eight years,
you're gonna make partner or you're out. I mean, I
was not any close to making partner.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
So do you think that's because the passion wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I think it's really impossible to be great at anything
if you don't have some kind of innate, innate thing
for it. I think it's actually impossible. It's literally rowing
against the current innate desire for it, or any desire
innate talent. I'm doing corporal or where you have to
like mark up a three hundred page document. No, I
(19:53):
don't have the talent for that. It's so boring. And
that's just the fact. And I think this is part
of what I'm saying, like you have to know yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
We'll be back with more of my conversation with Busso
or Lupona after the break. We're back with more of
Busseo or Lupona. At this point in her story, she's
(20:23):
burnt out in her lock career, but she loves fashion,
so she thinks she could make it in the industry
as a designer. She has money and an idea. How
hard could it be? So we haven't talked yet about fashion.
Did you care about fashion as a teenager, When did
fashion into your life and in what way I cared.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
About fashion as a kid, because I always remember my
first like deep fashion memory was my father coming back
from South Korea and buying me a red dress that
I become obsessed with, like I literally cannot stop wearing
a stress and like that's my first like deep fashion memory.
And also you're about culture. We're obsessed with clothes. We
(21:07):
have a tradition in our culture called should I be,
which means that when you're doing any kind of event,
we pick up fabric right and everybody wears that fabric,
and so you design your own version of that fabric
because it identifies the relationship between you and the people
doing the event. So there's always opportunities to kind of
(21:27):
design because anytime you have an event coming, you have
to like make up a new outfit. And the law
firm really factors into fashion for me because I had
the kind of strong call to start going back to
Nigeria and like visiting my family and like reconnecting with
my culture, like the early two thousands. I think the
first time I go back is two thousand and two,
(21:48):
and then starting two thousand and five, I start going
every year. It becomes almost like a pilgrimage. I don't
understand why, but every year I buy a ticket and
I go. And starting in eight I started making clothes
for myself, like things I wanted to wear back. So
I'm at the law firm now I started clearing at
two thousand and five. I'm at the firm, but I
know that I want to start wearing clothes that are
(22:08):
kind of at the intersection of both cultures.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
At the intersection of what's appropriate professionally exactly and.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Culture and tradition exactly. And that's like actually a very
specific thing.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I don't even know that would exist, it.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Did it, and so that's why I was going to
make it, and so but I also knew in the
beginning it was just that was literally the initial impetus
was like I wanted to wear clothes that I could
wear to a very traditional law firm. I mean, people
would still stare, but like it wasn't so crazy, but
like would fit in the law firm, but also kind
of captured my culture and tradition. But at this point
(22:47):
I'm wearing it around the office and there's some stuff
that people are like, oh great, and then all this timeployee.
You see like a double take, like what the fuck
is she wearing?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Were you ever like reprimanded?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Any official clarity was no, it's not it's not that
kind of place. It's very international law firm. And the
clothes really marked me as being different. I mean that
was very clear. And then I think that desire of
like I need to show up a certain way was
becoming like I could not ignore that anymore, Like it
was becoming like overwhelming in many ways.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
And in a way it might have been a physical
manifestation of your litteral inner feeling of I shouldn't be here. Yeah, no,
I don't belong here.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Absolutely, there were other ways. I mean there were so
many things that that marked me. So at this point
we kind of sit down me in the firm and
are like we need to go out separate ways. So
it was like, oh, let's let's divorce in September like
that kind of thing. So at this point I'm like,
you know what, I'm just gonna go work on Pussia.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
How do you get the courage to do that? I
mean you have loans?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, So the thing about remember I've made a crap
ton of money for six years, so I had like
a pretty nice nest egg, which was stupid in my
In my mind, I thought, oh, this is great. I
have enough money, I know, because I don't give up anything.
I don't move back home with my parents, I don't
get a cheaper apartment. I don't make any of the
(24:07):
adjustments you have to make when you lose like your
primary source of income and you are now starting a
fashion brand. I mean I did this in like the
dumbest way possible. I thought, Yeah, I thought the clothes
were going to come out on the market and on
the website, and I was just gonna make tons of sales.
I mean I was already selling when I was at
the firm doing pop ups. But I really felt like
(24:28):
if I moved to do this full time, you know,
I was going to get a lot of like big
store accounts, and next thing, you know, I would be
like able to live off of this brand.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Where did that delusion come from? I was gonna call
it assuredness self assuredness delusion, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I mean, you know, you're a lawyer and now you're
quitting your job, and you're saying I'm going to end
up in all these I.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Think it's At first, I think it's not knowing, like
not really understanding how challenging the fashion business really is.
You have to know the business that you're entering, right, Like,
if you're going to do what I did, should like
have a deeper understanding of how the business works. Right.
I didn't have that, right, Like, there's stuff that you
can read from books, But like every business, anything you're pursuing,
(25:20):
has its own language, has its own calendar, has its
own scheduling, has its own way of people doing things
in that space. So I immediately decide that I'm going
to go to a trade show, and there's a huge
trade show in Vegas. I'm resourceful, right, I'm on the
computer clackety clock figuring out which trade shows are good
for fashion. I buy a booth, right because I have
(25:41):
all this money, And I buy a booth and put
on my clothes, and again I'm thinking, I'm going to
come back from that trade show and I'm going to
have like fifty new stores and we're going to be
in business. Go to Magic, which is that's the trade
show in Vegas. Spend drag my best friend, We spend
in hotels, we do everything. The booth is I think
(26:03):
five thousand dollars, so you can do the Yeah, it's
that expensive, you can do the math. And I come
back with I think two or three store accounts.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Now that that to me sounds like a success.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I mean, we spent ten thousand dollars by the time
I paid for the booth, our hotel, flying to Vegas,
getting the close to Vegas. Uh, it was almost like
seven or eight thousand dollars. And the orders are like
two three thousand each maybe, so they're tiny stores. It's
good in the sense that a couple places are like, oh,
(26:36):
what you're doing is interesting. I remember getting a lot
of questions and like and it's still something I battle
against today. It's like, are these made by a collective?
In Africa? It's like, no, we don't do collectives. You know,
there's a lot of attachment to that idea of like
a collective of women like so wingful, Like people have
(26:58):
a thing about that, and I'm like, no, we don't
think that this very charitable model, like oh, you're helping
the women. Oh, And I'm like what, Like, no, we
don't do that. I don't know anything about collectives. So
I pay for magic right, Like in my brain this
is going to be like, get me to where I
need to go. I would walk into boutiques and be like,
(27:20):
hey you, I'm a designer from Brooklyn and and you know,
would love to sell you my collection. You don't do that.
That's not how the business works. There's a schedule to
these things. You can't just walk into somebody's store and
say like, do you want to buy my stuff? So
I just make so many mistakes. I still keep having
my pop ups, which are like people are starting to
respond to. So I would basically rent a space. I
(27:42):
ended up for most of the life of the brand
before things kind of blew up, renting a space on
Avenue C and would literally set up my clothes, would
take all my racks and all the clothes and set
them up in the space and invite people to come
for two days to come buy from us Avenue C
(28:02):
and the Lower East Side. Literally, these guys, I forget
how I found them. They just had an empty space
and they would rent it out to different different businesses.
So once I found them, I would do a pop
up like three or four times a year. But I
mean I blew through the savings very very quickly. So
by twenty fifteen. I was broke.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I had no money, and you started this thing.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Twenty eleven late twenty eleven. Twenty twelve was like our
official launch, So by twenty fifteen there was no money left.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Welcome back with the rest of my conversation with Bussio
O Lupona. After the break, after diving headfirst into the
fashion world without doing the legwork to understand the industry,
(28:52):
Bussio lost all her money. She had to find a
way to sustain herself and to keep her business dreams alive.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Went back to applying for jobs, legal jobs, which was
really painful. Crazily, I ended up getting a job with
New York City, like literally under the nick of time.
I got a job as a lawyer for one of
the agencies for the city. That was March of twenty fifteen.
And the joke was we were in one office when
I got the job, and then within like nine months
(29:21):
we were moving to a new office, and the new
office was in the same building as Clary Gottlieb as
my law firm. Yeah, and I remember walking in to
the same building and making a third of what I
made before, No secretary, nothing, sitting in a tiny cubicle
(29:45):
that is maybe half the space of this tiny room
that you and I were sitting in bullpen where everyone's
around you. And I remember the first day I cried
because now I was like the brand wasn't doing well,
I wasn't making any money, and now I had to
go back to law.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Back to where you started literally physically with the Wars office.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, with nothing, like I felt at the time, felt
like I was like spiraling, like you know, And I
remember that it was like walking in that day and
then seeing the people, you know, because I left. I
left the firm like I'm going to go launch my
business and you know, the fanfare of that, and now
I'm coming back and like now I'm like a worker bee,
(30:30):
like really worker bee. And it was really painful. It
was really painful for like a few weeks because I
had to kind of make that mental shift like this
is why we're here, and we have to like make
a living and we have to like there's certain things
that we have to do to get ourselves. And at
this point, I'm thirty seven, thirty six, right, I don't
own a home. There are things that I want for
(30:52):
myself that I don't have. Yea, I have this business
that's like fledgling and barely making it. So this is
when I do think about the wisdom of my father,
which is I have a certificate that I can use.
So I was able to like dust that thing off
and get another job. And then that was the beginning
of what I think is like the kind of second
phase of the business.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
How did you recover from that beyond being able to
reset at this job? Like what did what did you
do beyond being on the reset so that.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
That job is a lifeline, right, Like, and I think that,
you know, when I was thinking about this conversation, we
never know how our story is ending right or where
it's going right. So in that moment, I, as I
told you, as I entered that building, I was so devastated.
I just like I'd lost something, you know. But it
was all about what people were going to say, Like oh,
(31:43):
if I run into someone and be like, oh, what
are you doing here? You know, Like so much of
my angst was about the outside appearance. And then twenty nineteen,
I had like a major health challenge that would have
bankrupted me if I had not had this job, right,
if I had just been a working artist, like the
(32:05):
bills were astronomical and if I didn't have this job, like,
there's no way. And so for me, that job ended
up saving my life. And then more than that, it
gave me a little bit of peace of mind because
I wasn't waking up every day like I've got to
sell these dresses, I've got to sell these stresses. Like
I could kind of be a little bit more relaxed
(32:26):
about my work and my designs and think about what
do I want to see in the world, and if
I have a pop up, I wasn't like hysterical, like
if nobody buys anything, I'm not going to be able
to pay my rent. Like I didn't have that kind
of energy which people can smell that this is counterintuitive.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So it's sort of like not putting the entirety of
your energy into your business, which you would think that's
the move really allowed it the space that needed to
grow yep in its own time.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
YEP. This government legal job was a normal nine to five, right.
It was a very low stakes, low intensity environment. And
so because of that, we actually have a lot of
time outside for where the business was at at that time.
It was actually the perfect thing and I could approach
(33:18):
it now with love and compassion and passion. I was
like doing this because I wanted to, not because I
had to pay the bills. And that completely changed my
relationship with the business and also gave me peace of mind.
That was like the biggest, the biggest gift that I
got from that job, and so I was able to
use that time to really keep working on my baby,
(33:39):
my business, and so it really freed me up. And
then also the energy I brought to it was just
totally different because now I didn't need it. I was
doing it because I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Now that you have the sort of freedom, like what
were the sort of successes that started to accumulate that
allowed you to be where you're at now.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, so there were a few things. Twenty thirteen, I'd
seen a film Pariah Now my friend at a peros
Ouduie start in the film, and something in my spirit
just said, like reach out to her and message her
and like say hi, and introduce the brand to her
and see if you dress her for something. I didn't
know her. I found her on Facebook at the time.
(34:15):
I feel like now she would probably not respond. But
at the time, you know, was before like social media
was you know, very like it was still early twenty twelve,
twenty thirteen, so.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
It's as curate, manicured ass.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
So I messaged at a Pero and I was like, hey,
I saw your movie. I loved it. I would love
to dress you for something. She's like, oh, thank you.
Where are you. I'm like, I'm in Brooklyn. She's like,
oh my god, I'm in Brooklyn. And I was like, well,
do you want to come over? And she came over
and tried on clothes and is still a dear friend
of mine. And she ended up introducing the brand to
so many of her friends who are other actors. So
(34:51):
Lupizza ended up wearing us in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Oh I you're using first names here.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Lupita and Youngo. Yeah, but that was from but that
was literally from I mean the way that that was
from this just this a little tiny thought that was like,
oh you should you know I saw this movie at
a pero. Is your by like me from Nigeria? And
something said message her and see if she would want
to dress her.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I think it goes to show how often these little
gestures can actually pay off.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yep, they can pay off hugely. Yeah, big lely big
The pay off bigley. They can pay off bigly because
that message messaging her on Facebook is what led to
She had done twelve years of slave with Lupita and
introduced us, and then we ended up dressing Lupita for
I think a press tour in twenty fifteen. Just like
(35:39):
just a few pieces, you know, along the way, I
find mentors. So one of my mentors a woman named
Mercedes Gonzales, who really teaches me like, this is how
the fashion business works, these are the things that you
need to be doing at this time. I'd seen Mercedes
speak when I went to Magic in Vegas and.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
The first one, yeah, the first one were you.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Lost where I lost? I didn't make any money, And
she kind of adopted me and she's just an amazing
woman and kind of came back and and it really
became her student and was just like, Okay, what do
I do? And I always say she's really instrumental in
the brand's success because even though I wasn't selling successfully
every season, she was demanding a new collection. So like
(36:25):
when you haven't sold last season's collection and someone is like,
where's the new collection, You're kind of like, uh, excuse.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Me, You're not feeling inspired to create, but.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
She is like, where's the new collection? Have you shot
the collection? Like she was just really on top of
because she mentors like a number of fashion designers, and
she had really taken me under her wing and really
demanded that I like show up to the marketplace every season,
because if you don't have a new collection, you're not
a fashion designer. Even though I was like, wait, nobody
(36:56):
bought the last one, you know, Mercedes was like, where's
the next collection? And she really was on top of that,
you know. And then are you making calls to stores?
Are you trying to sell it? And I cold calling?
I was so bad at it because you think, okay,
I'm I'm selling you something and I'm somehow intruding on you,
(37:17):
you know, and my brain would just like couldn't, couldn't
do it, you know. It was really struggling with like
cold calls and all that stuff, which is what you
have to do as a designer. You have to get
in front of the people that you want to sell
your clothes to. That's like really critical and I just
was really struggling with that. I mean, I think fashion
is interesting, like you can have a brand and you
(37:39):
can do all the fashion shows you want, and you
can have all the press you want, but if you're
not selling, what's the point, you know? And I also
really love Mercedes for that because she, you know, she
says this thing that I think is really useful for
fashion designers to hear, but for any business, which is
are you trying to get rich or are you trying
to get famous? And if you're trying to get famous,
(37:59):
this is not the business for you, especially for fashion,
because I think you can actually get it confused, like
if you're getting all the press and you're getting all
these things that somehow how like the business is successful,
and if you are not actually selling, you don't have
a business. You just don't, even with all the press,
you know. So I'm always trying to like, I appreciate
(38:22):
the press, it's fantastic, but that's like the most important
part is like are you in the marketplace and are
people buying the product?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
So if you need to ask yourself the question are
you in this to be famous or are you in
this to sell close to be rich? To be rich?
Which we to be rich is how she puts it. Yeah,
which which we can just distill down to like to
sell clothes to actually sell the tab people enjoy the
thing and buy the thing and spread through word of
(38:49):
mouth or however right people wanting to go into buy
your thing. Do you need to be in department stores
to be rich as a designer.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
A lot of people disagree with the answer because many
people will tell you like.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Oh, no, you can be boutique.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You can be boutique. But to be honest with you,
my experience in terms of scaling, it would have been
very very hard to do like a direct a consumer
business and get to the point where we are at.
It would have been very very difficult, even specialty boutiques.
I think it would have just been really hard. I mean,
for me, there was no path that I saw to
(39:25):
being able to support the business and have it be
like an independent successful brand without department stores. I just
don't see it. You know. If I look at our
numbers and like, who's our kind of biggest customers, it
is our department stores. So it's really really difficult to
kind of think about it without them.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Like to end up there must feel really good. It
does your stuff in this thing where you know, like
even someone even if someone doesn't buy it, like people
are seeing your stuff in masks as they go through.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, seeing the name, I didn't think that I would
get any kick out of it, but it really did well.
Two things give me a kick being able to see
made in Nigeria on our clothes because Nigeria. First of all,
I say always say that ourpr in America is terrible,
even in Nigeria, Like there's kind of a bias to
whards made in Nigeria. Things. People will make stuff in
(40:17):
Nigeria and put like maid in China on it, or
like made in Italy or made in like India.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Like that that makes it better.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
That makes it better. And so for me, there's something
really intentional and really powerful about made in Nigeria in
a place like sax right or name in Marcus, Like,
that's really important to me. That is probably probably number one. Actually,
I'm just so incredibly proud of that. And also, you know,
we as a country really were really challenged economically, right,
(40:48):
so to be able to create a company that employs
people in Nigeria produces in Nigeria feels really empowering and
feels amazing.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
How did you end up in Sacks name and Marcus?
Come on, this is that's an incredible fee.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
So I think it would not be fair, it wouldn't
be an accurate telling to not bring up everything that
happened with the murder of George Floyd and the impact
that that had in a number of industries is like
a critical part of the story, Like there's no way
to tell the story without that, and it just wouldn't
be truthful. And the fact that this man was slaughtered
(41:29):
and you know, we all watched, and that's literally what
opened up many doors. I'm not saying that's the only reason,
but there was just a seismic change in what consumers
were demanding from stores, especially these stores that you know
posted the black squares, right, So when twenty twenty happened,
(41:50):
and I think people were challenging these companies to say, hey,
do better in terms of the product assortment, who you're
offering to us, who you're employing. Right, They were asking
these questions kind of a three sixty degree view at
how people were kind of putting their money or not
putting the money where their mouth is. I think it
(42:12):
compelled companies to kind of do a lot of inward examination,
and many didn't like what they saw, right, Like, we
don't have any black brands on our shelves. So we're
putting up a score, but our clothes don't represent this
thing that we're saying that we care about. And so
I think that compelled many companies to make a change.
(42:32):
And so one of the buyers at Sacks, Kelsey, she
came across the brand and she brought us to the
other buyer who was also named Kelsey, and said, hey,
we think this would be great, And they were the
first to I think it was within but this is
what I'm saying, was like within weeks, Like you know,
we went from back.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
In weeks the Black Square.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
It was probably a month or two after that.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Weeks, Yeah, it's weeks.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah. But then Mercedes, remember she was prepared because she
had been demanding a collection every season with photographs, So
I was prepared. You know, what do they say about luck, right,
Opportunity meets preparation.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Being at a department store change good fortunes as a brand.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Well, what happens is that once you're in one or two,
then other I think people begin to look at you
a little bit differently, and other stores start looking at
you differently. So that's certainly changed. I mean, so that's
definitely changed. I mean I was able to quit my job,
finally quit your job.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I mean that's you.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
That was everything that that was really.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
To be able to do that, you know, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I feel very blessed, I really do. I feel profoundly blessed,
and I think it's just one piece of a more
Probably I feel like fashion is the doorway to like
I come from a long line of teachers. Both my
parents are teachers, my grandparents were teachers, so part of
me really feels like that's probably my bigger calling, not
(44:02):
necessarily like in a classroom, but using this opportunity. The
storytelling piece of the brand is and really critical for
me in terms of how do I tell stories that
complicate the perception of Nigeria, the perception of Africa, the
perception of Yuba culture, you know, things like our first
and only video to ever go viral was a video
(44:25):
from our twenty seventeen editorial shoot of our model getting
her hair done the way my mom had done my hair,
the hair style that I took to my first day
at junior high. But there's a video of the model
getting her hair done and getting wrapped with thread. So
literally we shot it while we were shooting our editorial
(44:47):
collection and posted on Instagram. I wake up the next
day and I have like two thousand more followers. Then
when I went to bed and my just like, something's
happening on your Instagram and literally was that video. Shortly thereafter,
someone at Vogue saw it and actually wrote an article
about Bussio what about how this brand was like exploring
(45:07):
traditional Nigerian hair styles through kind of documenting and telling
the story. It was just about the hair, not really
about the clothes. But I was like I'll take that.
So I was like, we're in Vogue, you know, because
you know my exploration of you're about culture and Nigerian
traditions really in an attempt to situate the clothes, Like
(45:32):
I don't want you to just like go and buy
our clothes, Like I want you to understand the place
from which this comes from. And so the storytelling piece
is very compelling to me, Like I want you to
I believe everyone can wear our clothes because I get
that question a lot, but I want you to do
a little more.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Can be a white woman?
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah, absolutely, I get it all the time. I get
it all the time, but I want you to do
a little more work in terms of understand a little
bit about the culture from which this comes, understand why
clothes are really important in that cultural context. And so
that's my job to take you there and to teach
you a little bit more about this place. And so
(46:10):
documenting our process, taking our customers along with us as
we make these clothes from the place in which we
make it is like a really critical piece of the brand.
If it's our food, if it's particular specific places in Nigeria,
if it's the actual making of the fabrics. You know,
so so much of the dying process I will document,
(46:33):
you know, I'm taking people along with me on that journey.
Like so it's been really an amazing entry way. I
thought it was going to just be about the close,
but it's become about so much more than that.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
It's amazing. Your mentor asked whether you're in it to
be famous or rich. Yeah, seems like you've created a
Thurston lane which is also to teach.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, to teach and to have purpose, right, Like, cuse
close all of this is we're all going to die,
Like it's it's just closed at the end of the day, right,
And I guess maybe I'm also at a point in
my life where I'm really thinking about what it means
to have like impact and what it means to have
you know, what is it that people remember about their
interactions with me, or with my brand or just in life.
(47:16):
You know, what are the things that actually touch people.
It's less about the actual physical thing, and it's much
more about like did you teach someone, how did you
make them feel? Did you inspire them? You know? And
I don't have all the answers, but I certainly know
that mentors made a huge, huge difference for me along
the way. And I always hate listening to these types
(47:37):
of conversations and just feel like I didn't get anything
practical out of it, Like I got like just do it,
you know. So that's why I'm like trying to drop
as much resources as I can, because I really do
think that it's really helpful for people to, you know,
I want to listen to this conversation and be like, Okay,
this is what I'm going to do next. You know,
it's not that easy. And then the other thing is
that the road was long for me.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
The road you didn't just go for your dream and
that's the thing you did it. That's the thing. You
didn't just go for your dream like you went some
other ways.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
It was just long. It was long and secuitous. But
I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
It's it's cliche to say, but I wouldn't change anything
for the journey. This whole journey has taught me. Like
when you have that little voice that tells you to
do something, do it, like, do it immediately. It's actually
it's coming with its own power. It's like that's how
universe life is trying to help you. Yeah, you know,
And oftentimes we either have like numbed that voice that
(48:31):
we don't hear it, or we hear it and we say,
oh no, we can't. I can't really do that. Oh no,
if I do, you know, we think about all the
reasons not to do it, and I still do it now.
But what I know is that every single time I've
listened to that voice and done the thing that it's
told me to do, my life has changed. Even if
it's by a tiny degree, it's changed. And so many
tiny degrees is where you get to where you want
(48:53):
to go.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Well, thank you for sharing today, pussayo Olpona.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Well, thank you. Nice to meet you justin It was
a wonderful conversation.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
That was Bussyo Olopona, owner of Busio n YC. I'd
like to thank her for the time she took out
of her busy schedu during New York Fashion Week to
share her story to bring joy. The Yoruba definition of
busaio says a lot. What brings us joy and what
about us our likes, desires, talents might bring joy to others.
(49:25):
It's a simple but large question that could help hone
our path. After all, when life's many unpredictable moments knock
us off course, what do we often turn to the
joy in our lives? So if you make your joy,
your business success becomes a real privilege and well a joy.
(49:46):
By the way, Busaiyah wanted to make sure I shared
with you a list of books she's found helpful throughout
her journey. You could find those in the show notes
for this episode. Started from the Bottom is produced by
David Jah, edited by Keisha Williams, Engineered by Eventaliday, Booked
by Lord Morgan with production help from Lea Rose. Executive
(50:09):
produced by Jacob Goldstein, Who's not all open the videos
for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Ben Holliday and
David Ja featuring Anthony Jaggs and Savannah Joe Lack. Listen
to start Up from the bottom wherever you get your
podcasts and if you want ad free episodes available one
week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin
(50:30):
dot fm or the Apple Show page for more information.
If you like her show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast app. I'm justin Richmond.
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I don't move back home with my parents. I don't
get a cheaper apartment. I don't make any of the
adjustments you have to make. When you do this like
your primary source of income and you are now starting
a fashion brand, I mean I did this in like
the dumbest way possible.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Busaio O Lupona spent her formative years in both Nigeria
and small town Davis, California. She made it to the
precipice of success with a lucrative career as a lawyer
at an elite New York City law firm, and then
left to start a fashion label in her thirties. Her
label is absolutely titled busaio Not only is it her name,
(00:59):
but in one of the many Nigerian dialects, Busaiyo means
to add joy, and adding joy to a dreary law
career was what first sparked Oloopona's entrepreneurial spirit to begin
with creating homemade designs she could wear in a professional
setting while utilizing the vibrant prints of her Nigerian youth.
(01:20):
And this is her Clothing Labels mission to bridge the
cultural gap between what business professionals can wear in states
and the more bold designs of West Africa. Ol Loopona's
story is about finding your joy and pursuing it at
all costs. This is started from the bottom, hard earned
success stories from people like us. Can you take me
(01:47):
back to your very first day of school in Davis, California.
It's your first day of middle school in the United States. Yeah,
tell me everything.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I remember. First of all, coming to America was like
I was in a boarding school in Nigeria. I was miserable.
So it was literally they being rescued like I. And
you know, I had had this fantasy right of what
America was like, and in some ways it had really
up until then would really met up to it. I
remember going to the my American grocery store for the
(02:22):
first time and seeing all these different types of fruits
and all these you know, fruits that are only read
about in books and then see like strawberries, like seeing
them in person. You know, there was just so many
things that were like a delight, right, And so I
remember it was Oliver Wendell Holmes's junior high school. I
was starting the eighth grade and I was supposed to
(02:43):
be starting ninth. Actually I had gone through school really fast,
so I was quite young. I was only twelve years
old and very young, yeah, super young, and in a
new country, right. I remember I had my hair wrapped
with so we have something in our culture called inrokiko,
which is hair threaded, like your hair streaded. So my
mom had done it for me, which is literally wrap
(03:04):
your head in like thread and it s took a
very popular style in Niger and throughout West Africa really,
and I remember I was writing traditionally dyed hand eyed
clothes and I just remember being so excited. And I
don't think that the fissure and the cracks came that
first day, but it's probably that first week right where
(03:28):
like the response to me was just not what I
dreamt of, you know. I thought I was gonna have
friends and I was gonna just I was so excited
to be in America, and it literally was like hellish.
And I remember, I don't remember if it was that
day or a few days later. I told my mom, like,
take my hair out of this thing. I don't want
to wear my hair like this anymore. The clothes, I
(03:49):
was like, I needed new clothes, and so, of course
all they could afford at the time was like closed
from Salvation in the army. She did everything to make
sure we were like, you know, dressed well and everything,
like God, I'm gonna start crying justin you know, just
because you know, we got here. And I was like,
these clothes that we brought, I'm not gonna wear them.
(04:10):
And of course they didn't have a ton of money.
My dad was an assistant professor, and which people will
assume that, oh, that means that you're making a really
good living, but with four children, actually not, you know,
he I think it was like thirty forty thousand dollars
a year or something like that, and trying to feed
like a family of sex and they're starting in a
new country. They didn't have very much, and so she
would buy these clothes for us from Salvation Army and
(04:31):
I would just be like, no, I don't I don't
want to wear these. You know, these are not like
what the kids in school were wearing. So I did
everything to try to mold in shape and become something
that was acceptable to my peers, right, But it never
really worked, you know, and was really socially isolated for
a very long time.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
What was one that taunts you.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Oh God, how you want me solving the film The
Gods Must Be Crazy had just come out. So I
would sit there and like kids would click in my ear, like,
you know, because they speak souls loud, which I can pronounce.
Most of us can't say that sound. The sound is
aspiration in your in your throat essentially, Yeah, that's what
(05:15):
people call it. But so people would literally click in
my ear and like say, like, do you do you
talk like this? Do you guys wear clothes? Do you
live in trees? Spitballs? You know? I would have spitballs.
I hope kids don't do it anymore, like literally make
cover paper with spit, like blow it through like a
pen at you. Oh god, my hair. At one point,
(05:37):
it was like, you know, Medusa was the was the name.
There was so much, you know, and at this point
I start eating to kind of deal with it, right,
So then I'm overweight and so there's that you know,
challenge and that kind of torment. So there was a lot.
I mean, I think at that time too, the narrative
(05:57):
on the African continent was very poverty. People's perception of
Africa was really it's not like now where I actually
think that we've managed to complicate the narrative and like
we as you know, both the Africans on the continent
and living here are really telling a different story about
(06:18):
the place that we come from. But at that time
there was none of that. So it was literally like
starving children from Athiopia, you know, that was basically it.
Oh and then of course the animal narrative that this
was a continent, it was just full of animals, and
so there was just a lot of like do you
have a pet monkey? Do you have that? It's just
just stuff like now sounds ridiculous, but at that time
(06:41):
was completely the norm was completely.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
No norm and the sort of thing that you know,
what was to happen. As an adult, you could dismiss
them in such a way to say, obviously, these people
are like uninvolved a type of people. But as a kid, you.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Take it all in. Oh my gosh, you take it
all in. And I mean, there were so many good
things about that. Being so awful as it was, I
think I was so desperate to get the hell out
of Davis right like. That was very clear to me,
and it gave me a determination to get the hell
out of there, which was a total blessing.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Could your parents sympathize.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I think, yes, and no. I think they were going
through their own kind of immigration. Like immigration is actually
more traumatic than I think most of us really, I
don't even I didn't even start thinking about it till
very recently, in like the language of trauma, right, And
of course trauma is like a word that we now
throw around quite a bit and freely, so I'm actually
(07:37):
quite careful in how I use it. But I do
think that there's actually a huge amount of loss that
comes from I know, there's a huge amount of loss
that comes from leaving your home and starting out in
a new place. And they were kind of doing it
for the second time. I was actually born here, but
once my father finished grad school, like, we moved back
(07:57):
to Nigeria. So they were coming back and they'd been
here before, but they were going through their own challenges,
and I think they were raising teenagers, and they had
a lot of fear about out us losing our culture
or kind of getting sucked into kind of I think
there were things about America that scared them.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I mean, like I would imagine and I don't come
from a family of immigrants or you know, not any
immigration that happened a long time back. But I imagine
the dream for an immigrant parent would be take advantage
of the financial opportunity and take refuge in your own
home culture.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You got it. That was That was exactly it, and
that was the rule from day one for us. Was
like in this house, this is Nigeria. Out there, do
whatever you want, but in here, this is Nigeria.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Your dad's a professor. So you might think perhaps maybe
a little more, maybe it was a little more open
minded than I'm expecting. But what was expected of you?
What do you think they were hoping for your future?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I think what you said was really right, like you
actually described it so succinctly and perfectly, which is take
advantage of the economic opportunity that's available in America. But
in terms of your life path and your own personal values,
you continue to be as Nigerian as possible, which is
an impossible project, right, Like it is impossible, Like you know,
(09:26):
and the life of a Nigerian woman's actually quite prescribed
and defined, which is once you hit a certain age,
you get married and you have kids and that's that's that,
and you continue you replicate and in our culture, children
are like children are your inheritance. Children are everything, and
so for them it was like once you hit a
(09:47):
certain age, you get married, like twenty five twenty six basically,
and you have children. And I don't have children and
I'm not married, and so those things for them, I
think is challenging, right because I also made very different
choices with my professional wife, But for a very long time,
I kind of stayed on the path and the traditional
path that you know, looked really good from the outside,
(10:09):
that kind of really fit into what they wanted. But
I think that this kind of personal piece is also
really is really huge in our culture. It's a very
the life of a woman is very very clear. Oh
and I'm Nigerian, but specifically I'm Eurorobat, which is the
tribe that I come from.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
What does a career look like? Then, if you're expected
to be married with kids at twenty five, oh.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
You're expected to do all of that. Like my father,
we had three girls and a boy. There was never
any distinction between where we were expected to accomplish at all.
Like it was like from day one you were expected
to produce, you were expected to be a rock star,
and that was the end of that. But simultaneously on
top of that, for women, you're also expected to bring
(10:52):
that same level of excellence to the home and be
a homemaker and all of those things. So when we
were growing up, professional achievement was a given. I think
what was different about it or kind of what was
on top of that was doctor, lawyer, architect, engineer, and
that was basically it. Right, there's a reason you have
(11:13):
so many Nigerian doctors. It's not because like they all
wanted to be doctors, you know in America, Like there's
so many. I mean, it's that's not it. Or an accountant,
sorry I forgot accounting.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Did any of those seem remotely appealing to you as
a kid.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I love the arts, I love theater. All the kids.
The only kids that were nice to me were the
theater kids, like the weirdo theater kids. And I say
that with such love and affection. I proudly am one
of them. And those were my friends. And that's what
I wanted to just wanted to be an actor when
I was younger, and my parents were like, well acting kidney,
like what we did not come to America for you
(11:51):
to be an actor, you know, And they had this
thing that they always said like you must have a certificate,
you know, like there's an idea that like a piece
of paper that no one can take away from you.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So that's like a diploma certificate.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, like not just a diploma, like you know, being
a doctor, you have an actual professional certification. If you're
a lawyer, you have a particular you know, if you're
an engineer. You know, these kind of professions where somebody
says you are skilled to do this.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I have never heard of put that way. That is
a great way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It's not a diploma.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Children, you must have a certificate.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Right, So no one can take your certificate from you. Right,
So that really leaves like four or five professions with certificates.
And so you know, my older sister is a doctor,
I'm a lawyer. My little sister's a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
How did you pick?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I picked law because this was the time where people
would say, if you don't know what to do, you
can go to law school and you can do anything
with it, which is not true. Like, if I could
leave one lesson on this entire conversation, do not go
to law school because you don't know what else to do,
and you think you can do anything with a law degree, because.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
That is not true.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
If you have a law degree, you can be a lawyer.
That's it. That was what I mean. I feel like
it's changed a little bit, but late nineties, like early
two thousands, it was like, oh, you know, if you're
stilling worrying, you can you know, there's so much versatility
with a law degree. You can do all sorts of
things with it. No, it's not true. You can be
a lawyer, that's it.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I wonder if that was the sneaky way just to
get your kids into well, if the law school.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I mean, you know, in law schools they have their
own racket. That's a whole nother conversation. But yeah, I
really believed it. I didn't know. Again, you have to
realize I was twenty when I graduated from cayl Wow.
So twenty yeah, because I started I was twelve years
old in eighth grade. So I was twenty years old
and you are sixteen. Yeah, I was a sixteen when
(13:41):
I first Yeah, it was a terrible idea. Wow, should
we say that we went to the same speek.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
We went we both were both Cowers.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Both when we both go Barris, We both went same
undergrad so that's why.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
But you you wind up after Berkeley, you end up
at NYU Law School.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Well, so there's a tension that's happening while I'm at
cayl right, because I want a major in theater. I'm
not that good and my parents are like no, so
I minor in theater and then I.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And major in business.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and I get into right, so the business program
is like difficult to get into. I get into it
and it's you don't turn it down, right, So.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
It's like best business schools in the country.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And I'm like, So I'm like at HOSS and I'm
like minory in theater and literally I might as well
have been to people like walking up the hill to
hass is like I'm being tortured. And then theater I'm like,
loving my life. But but that bifurcation of the thing
that your spirit and soul, the thing that makes you
feel awake, versus the thing that is expected. And at
(14:42):
this point I'm not it's not just my parents, it's
also my own. I think I've also bought into the
idea that you need a profession or a job that
gives you stability and gives you an identity and I
like the paycheck, right, Like you know, I like the paycheck.
I'm I'm really independent. I wanted to be able to
(15:03):
have my own kind of everything at a very young age.
So I came to visit my sister, older sister who
was at TULU, who's at NYU Medical School at the time,
fell in love with the city, fell so hard for
New York and was like, I'm moving here. I don't
care how it's going to happen. And I went back
(15:23):
to the ban and I was like, I got to
get out of here. And this was when the if
you don't know what to do and you're exploring and
your law degree and is versatile, it was like, what's
the answer, and why you law? That's the answer, and
that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
What was that experience?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Like?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I love law school? I absolutely loved it.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
What did you love about it?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
The education itself is a different type of thinking. It's
a different It's literally like learning a new language and
a new way of communicating. You are being forced to,
first of all, I think, just being analytical and ask
really specific and new questions, to look at a situation
a certain way, and then kind of consider all the
(16:07):
different ways that you can look at a situation like
such a situation. Also, the law school model is you know,
you're with the same one hundred people in your class
all day, kind of like going back to elementary school,
where like you're not changing classes, you're literally with the
same people for a whole year. So I just got
to meet some of the best, most interesting people in
(16:27):
my life and they're still in my life. I mean,
that's the thing. The joke about LUSCH was it attracts
all these people who don't know what else they want
to do, so you end up meeting some really dope people.
And like NYU was really fun, and like I think about, it,
laid the groundwork for so much of what I'm doing
now in so many ways, strange ways. So the study
(16:48):
of law is actually fantastic. It's the practice of law
that is not so fun.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
What were your first couple of jobs after?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
My first job was really long. It was a six
year job. I was an associate at Clary Gottlieb. I'm
not sure I should say their name, but is it
a fancy white shoe law firm downtown? Very How should
I say this? So when you graduate from certain law
schools in this country. There's something that's kind of in
some ways it's wonderful that they've really set up, which
(17:16):
is like you graduate from law school and you go
work for these corporate law firms and usually you owe
a lot of money and they pay an insane amount
of money and everybody kind of gets paid the same.
Like you can google the salaries now, which I don't
even know what they are, but at that time it
was like one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
And you have a secretary, you have an annex card,
you have cards that take you home every night. In
these jobs, they come to the school to interview you.
The firms come to the schools, especially like New York
schools from the Boston schools. Yeah, and they take you
out to all the fancy restaurants, the no Boos, the Boulets,
the Danielle's, like free, they pay for everything. It's like
(17:55):
a recruiting period. Right. You think you're eating free stuff.
It's not free, because nothing in life is free.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
They're going to get it out of you later. And
you also remember you owe. In my case, I owed money.
I owed a lot of money, and so I owed
from my undergrad and I owed from law school. So
you now have these like shiny toys being given to you.
It's a very hard thing to say no to, especially
when you are that young. And again, I think New
(18:23):
York City can be I love the city, but I
think sometimes there's there's it can be very intoxicating. And
I totally got intoxicated by like the yeah, the fanciness
of everything, you know, Like why is that well, I
mean think about it. You're twenty something, like I've never
seen this kind of money before my life. And these trappings,
(18:44):
you know, they're called golden handcuffs for a reason. Like
these trappings feel, they appear nice. Right, I'm gonna have
like my own office. I'm gonna have my own secretary.
I'm gonna have an AMEX card, you know, and you
know BlackBerry, all these things right that at that age,
I think I confused for like adulthood or something. So
I took the job at Cleary and it was phenomenal
(19:07):
legal training. But again, when you are not in alignment,
I don't care how much you dress up that pig
with all the lipsticks, It's not gonna work. And the
thing about law firms is you are there at eight years,
you're gonna make partner or you're out. I mean, I
was not any close to making partner.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
So do you think that's because the passion wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I think it's really impossible to be great at anything
if you don't have some kind of innate, innate thing
for it. I think it's actually impossible. It's literally rowing
against the current innate desire for it, or any desire
innate talent. I'm doing corporal or where you have to
like mark up a three hundred page document. No, I
(19:53):
don't have the talent for that. It's so boring. And
that's just the fact. And I think this is part
of what I'm saying, like you have to know yourself.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
We'll be back with more of my conversation with Busso
or Lupona after the break. We're back with more of
Busseo or Lupona. At this point in her story, she's
(20:23):
burnt out in her lock career, but she loves fashion,
so she thinks she could make it in the industry
as a designer. She has money and an idea. How
hard could it be? So we haven't talked yet about fashion.
Did you care about fashion as a teenager, When did
fashion into your life and in what way I cared.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
About fashion as a kid, because I always remember my
first like deep fashion memory was my father coming back
from South Korea and buying me a red dress that
I become obsessed with, like I literally cannot stop wearing
a stress and like that's my first like deep fashion memory.
And also you're about culture. We're obsessed with clothes. We
(21:07):
have a tradition in our culture called should I be,
which means that when you're doing any kind of event,
we pick up fabric right and everybody wears that fabric,
and so you design your own version of that fabric
because it identifies the relationship between you and the people
doing the event. So there's always opportunities to kind of
(21:27):
design because anytime you have an event coming, you have
to like make up a new outfit. And the law
firm really factors into fashion for me because I had
the kind of strong call to start going back to
Nigeria and like visiting my family and like reconnecting with
my culture, like the early two thousands. I think the
first time I go back is two thousand and two,
(21:48):
and then starting two thousand and five, I start going
every year. It becomes almost like a pilgrimage. I don't
understand why, but every year I buy a ticket and
I go. And starting in eight I started making clothes
for myself, like things I wanted to wear back. So
I'm at the law firm now I started clearing at
two thousand and five. I'm at the firm, but I
know that I want to start wearing clothes that are
(22:08):
kind of at the intersection of both cultures.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
At the intersection of what's appropriate professionally exactly and.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Culture and tradition exactly. And that's like actually a very
specific thing.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I don't even know that would exist, it.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Did it, and so that's why I was going to
make it, and so but I also knew in the
beginning it was just that was literally the initial impetus
was like I wanted to wear clothes that I could
wear to a very traditional law firm. I mean, people
would still stare, but like it wasn't so crazy, but
like would fit in the law firm, but also kind
of captured my culture and tradition. But at this point
(22:47):
I'm wearing it around the office and there's some stuff
that people are like, oh great, and then all this timeployee.
You see like a double take, like what the fuck
is she wearing?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Were you ever like reprimanded?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Any official clarity was no, it's not it's not that
kind of place. It's very international law firm. And the
clothes really marked me as being different. I mean that
was very clear. And then I think that desire of
like I need to show up a certain way was
becoming like I could not ignore that anymore, Like it
was becoming like overwhelming in many ways.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
And in a way it might have been a physical
manifestation of your litteral inner feeling of I shouldn't be here. Yeah, no,
I don't belong here.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Absolutely, there were other ways. I mean there were so
many things that that marked me. So at this point
we kind of sit down me in the firm and
are like we need to go out separate ways. So
it was like, oh, let's let's divorce in September like
that kind of thing. So at this point I'm like,
you know what, I'm just gonna go work on Pussia.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
How do you get the courage to do that? I
mean you have loans?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, So the thing about remember I've made a crap
ton of money for six years, so I had like
a pretty nice nest egg, which was stupid in my
In my mind, I thought, oh, this is great. I
have enough money, I know, because I don't give up anything.
I don't move back home with my parents, I don't
get a cheaper apartment. I don't make any of the
(24:07):
adjustments you have to make when you lose like your
primary source of income and you are now starting a
fashion brand. I mean I did this in like the
dumbest way possible. I thought, Yeah, I thought the clothes
were going to come out on the market and on
the website, and I was just gonna make tons of sales.
I mean I was already selling when I was at
the firm doing pop ups. But I really felt like
(24:28):
if I moved to do this full time, you know,
I was going to get a lot of like big
store accounts, and next thing, you know, I would be
like able to live off of this brand.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Where did that delusion come from? I was gonna call
it assuredness self assuredness delusion, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I mean, you know, you're a lawyer and now you're
quitting your job, and you're saying I'm going to end
up in all these I.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Think it's At first, I think it's not knowing, like
not really understanding how challenging the fashion business really is.
You have to know the business that you're entering, right, Like,
if you're going to do what I did, should like
have a deeper understanding of how the business works. Right.
I didn't have that, right, Like, there's stuff that you
can read from books, But like every business, anything you're pursuing,
(25:20):
has its own language, has its own calendar, has its
own scheduling, has its own way of people doing things
in that space. So I immediately decide that I'm going
to go to a trade show, and there's a huge
trade show in Vegas. I'm resourceful, right, I'm on the
computer clackety clock figuring out which trade shows are good
for fashion. I buy a booth, right because I have
(25:41):
all this money, And I buy a booth and put
on my clothes, and again I'm thinking, I'm going to
come back from that trade show and I'm going to
have like fifty new stores and we're going to be
in business. Go to Magic, which is that's the trade
show in Vegas. Spend drag my best friend, We spend
in hotels, we do everything. The booth is I think
(26:03):
five thousand dollars, so you can do the Yeah, it's
that expensive, you can do the math. And I come
back with I think two or three store accounts.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Now that that to me sounds like a success.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I mean, we spent ten thousand dollars by the time
I paid for the booth, our hotel, flying to Vegas,
getting the close to Vegas. Uh, it was almost like
seven or eight thousand dollars. And the orders are like
two three thousand each maybe, so they're tiny stores. It's
good in the sense that a couple places are like, oh,
(26:36):
what you're doing is interesting. I remember getting a lot
of questions and like and it's still something I battle
against today. It's like, are these made by a collective?
In Africa? It's like, no, we don't do collectives. You know,
there's a lot of attachment to that idea of like
a collective of women like so wingful, Like people have
(26:58):
a thing about that, and I'm like, no, we don't
think that this very charitable model, like oh, you're helping
the women. Oh, And I'm like what, Like, no, we
don't do that. I don't know anything about collectives. So
I pay for magic right, Like in my brain this
is going to be like, get me to where I
need to go. I would walk into boutiques and be like,
(27:20):
hey you, I'm a designer from Brooklyn and and you know,
would love to sell you my collection. You don't do that.
That's not how the business works. There's a schedule to
these things. You can't just walk into somebody's store and
say like, do you want to buy my stuff? So
I just make so many mistakes. I still keep having
my pop ups, which are like people are starting to
respond to. So I would basically rent a space. I
(27:42):
ended up for most of the life of the brand
before things kind of blew up, renting a space on
Avenue C and would literally set up my clothes, would
take all my racks and all the clothes and set
them up in the space and invite people to come
for two days to come buy from us Avenue C
(28:02):
and the Lower East Side. Literally, these guys, I forget
how I found them. They just had an empty space
and they would rent it out to different different businesses.
So once I found them, I would do a pop
up like three or four times a year. But I
mean I blew through the savings very very quickly. So
by twenty fifteen. I was broke.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I had no money, and you started this thing.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Twenty eleven late twenty eleven. Twenty twelve was like our
official launch, So by twenty fifteen there was no money left.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Welcome back with the rest of my conversation with Bussio
O Lupona. After the break, after diving headfirst into the
fashion world without doing the legwork to understand the industry,
(28:52):
Bussio lost all her money. She had to find a
way to sustain herself and to keep her business dreams alive.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Went back to applying for jobs, legal jobs, which was
really painful. Crazily, I ended up getting a job with
New York City, like literally under the nick of time.
I got a job as a lawyer for one of
the agencies for the city. That was March of twenty fifteen.
And the joke was we were in one office when
I got the job, and then within like nine months
(29:21):
we were moving to a new office, and the new
office was in the same building as Clary Gottlieb as
my law firm. Yeah, and I remember walking in to
the same building and making a third of what I
made before, No secretary, nothing, sitting in a tiny cubicle
(29:45):
that is maybe half the space of this tiny room
that you and I were sitting in bullpen where everyone's
around you. And I remember the first day I cried
because now I was like the brand wasn't doing well,
I wasn't making any money, and now I had to
go back to law.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Back to where you started literally physically with the Wars office.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, with nothing, like I felt at the time, felt
like I was like spiraling, like you know, And I
remember that it was like walking in that day and
then seeing the people, you know, because I left. I
left the firm like I'm going to go launch my
business and you know, the fanfare of that, and now
I'm coming back and like now I'm like a worker bee,
(30:30):
like really worker bee. And it was really painful. It
was really painful for like a few weeks because I
had to kind of make that mental shift like this
is why we're here, and we have to like make
a living and we have to like there's certain things
that we have to do to get ourselves. And at
this point, I'm thirty seven, thirty six, right, I don't
own a home. There are things that I want for
(30:52):
myself that I don't have. Yea, I have this business
that's like fledgling and barely making it. So this is
when I do think about the wisdom of my father,
which is I have a certificate that I can use.
So I was able to like dust that thing off
and get another job. And then that was the beginning
of what I think is like the kind of second
phase of the business.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
How did you recover from that beyond being able to
reset at this job? Like what did what did you
do beyond being on the reset so that.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
That job is a lifeline, right, Like, and I think that,
you know, when I was thinking about this conversation, we
never know how our story is ending right or where
it's going right. So in that moment, I, as I
told you, as I entered that building, I was so devastated.
I just like I'd lost something, you know. But it
was all about what people were going to say, Like oh,
(31:43):
if I run into someone and be like, oh, what
are you doing here? You know, Like so much of
my angst was about the outside appearance. And then twenty nineteen,
I had like a major health challenge that would have
bankrupted me if I had not had this job, right,
if I had just been a working artist, like the
(32:05):
bills were astronomical and if I didn't have this job, like,
there's no way. And so for me, that job ended
up saving my life. And then more than that, it
gave me a little bit of peace of mind because
I wasn't waking up every day like I've got to
sell these dresses, I've got to sell these stresses. Like
I could kind of be a little bit more relaxed
(32:26):
about my work and my designs and think about what
do I want to see in the world, and if
I have a pop up, I wasn't like hysterical, like
if nobody buys anything, I'm not going to be able
to pay my rent. Like I didn't have that kind
of energy which people can smell that this is counterintuitive.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
So it's sort of like not putting the entirety of
your energy into your business, which you would think that's
the move really allowed it the space that needed to
grow yep in its own time.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
YEP. This government legal job was a normal nine to five, right.
It was a very low stakes, low intensity environment. And
so because of that, we actually have a lot of
time outside for where the business was at at that time.
It was actually the perfect thing and I could approach
(33:18):
it now with love and compassion and passion. I was
like doing this because I wanted to, not because I
had to pay the bills. And that completely changed my
relationship with the business and also gave me peace of mind.
That was like the biggest, the biggest gift that I
got from that job, and so I was able to
use that time to really keep working on my baby,
(33:39):
my business, and so it really freed me up. And
then also the energy I brought to it was just
totally different because now I didn't need it. I was
doing it because I wanted to.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Now that you have the sort of freedom, like what
were the sort of successes that started to accumulate that
allowed you to be where you're at now.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, so there were a few things. Twenty thirteen, I'd
seen a film Pariah Now my friend at a peros
Ouduie start in the film, and something in my spirit
just said, like reach out to her and message her
and like say hi, and introduce the brand to her
and see if you dress her for something. I didn't
know her. I found her on Facebook at the time.
(34:15):
I feel like now she would probably not respond. But
at the time, you know, was before like social media
was you know, very like it was still early twenty twelve,
twenty thirteen, so.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
It's as curate, manicured ass.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
So I messaged at a Pero and I was like, hey,
I saw your movie. I loved it. I would love
to dress you for something. She's like, oh, thank you.
Where are you. I'm like, I'm in Brooklyn. She's like,
oh my god, I'm in Brooklyn. And I was like, well,
do you want to come over? And she came over
and tried on clothes and is still a dear friend
of mine. And she ended up introducing the brand to
so many of her friends who are other actors. So
(34:51):
Lupizza ended up wearing us in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Oh I you're using first names here.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Lupita and Youngo. Yeah, but that was from but that
was literally from I mean the way that that was
from this just this a little tiny thought that was like,
oh you should you know I saw this movie at
a pero. Is your by like me from Nigeria? And
something said message her and see if she would want
to dress her.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I think it goes to show how often these little
gestures can actually pay off.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yep, they can pay off hugely. Yeah, big lely big
The pay off bigley. They can pay off bigly because
that message messaging her on Facebook is what led to
She had done twelve years of slave with Lupita and
introduced us, and then we ended up dressing Lupita for
I think a press tour in twenty fifteen. Just like
(35:39):
just a few pieces, you know, along the way, I
find mentors. So one of my mentors a woman named
Mercedes Gonzales, who really teaches me like, this is how
the fashion business works, these are the things that you
need to be doing at this time. I'd seen Mercedes
speak when I went to Magic in Vegas and.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
The first one, yeah, the first one were you.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Lost where I lost? I didn't make any money, And
she kind of adopted me and she's just an amazing
woman and kind of came back and and it really
became her student and was just like, Okay, what do
I do? And I always say she's really instrumental in
the brand's success because even though I wasn't selling successfully
every season, she was demanding a new collection. So like
(36:25):
when you haven't sold last season's collection and someone is like,
where's the new collection, You're kind of like, uh, excuse.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Me, You're not feeling inspired to create, but.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
She is like, where's the new collection? Have you shot
the collection? Like she was just really on top of
because she mentors like a number of fashion designers, and
she had really taken me under her wing and really
demanded that I like show up to the marketplace every season,
because if you don't have a new collection, you're not
a fashion designer. Even though I was like, wait, nobody
(36:56):
bought the last one, you know, Mercedes was like, where's
the next collection? And she really was on top of that,
you know. And then are you making calls to stores?
Are you trying to sell it? And I cold calling?
I was so bad at it because you think, okay,
I'm I'm selling you something and I'm somehow intruding on you,
(37:17):
you know, and my brain would just like couldn't, couldn't
do it, you know. It was really struggling with like
cold calls and all that stuff, which is what you
have to do as a designer. You have to get
in front of the people that you want to sell
your clothes to. That's like really critical and I just
was really struggling with that. I mean, I think fashion
is interesting, like you can have a brand and you
(37:39):
can do all the fashion shows you want, and you
can have all the press you want, but if you're
not selling, what's the point, you know? And I also
really love Mercedes for that because she, you know, she
says this thing that I think is really useful for
fashion designers to hear, but for any business, which is
are you trying to get rich or are you trying
to get famous? And if you're trying to get famous,
(37:59):
this is not the business for you, especially for fashion,
because I think you can actually get it confused, like
if you're getting all the press and you're getting all
these things that somehow how like the business is successful,
and if you are not actually selling, you don't have
a business. You just don't, even with all the press,
you know. So I'm always trying to like, I appreciate
(38:22):
the press, it's fantastic, but that's like the most important
part is like are you in the marketplace and are
people buying the product?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
So if you need to ask yourself the question are
you in this to be famous or are you in
this to sell close to be rich? To be rich?
Which we to be rich is how she puts it. Yeah,
which which we can just distill down to like to
sell clothes to actually sell the tab people enjoy the
thing and buy the thing and spread through word of
(38:49):
mouth or however right people wanting to go into buy
your thing. Do you need to be in department stores
to be rich as a designer.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
A lot of people disagree with the answer because many
people will tell you like.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Oh, no, you can be boutique.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
You can be boutique. But to be honest with you,
my experience in terms of scaling, it would have been
very very hard to do like a direct a consumer
business and get to the point where we are at.
It would have been very very difficult, even specialty boutiques.
I think it would have just been really hard. I mean,
for me, there was no path that I saw to
(39:25):
being able to support the business and have it be
like an independent successful brand without department stores. I just
don't see it. You know. If I look at our
numbers and like, who's our kind of biggest customers, it
is our department stores. So it's really really difficult to
kind of think about it without them.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Like to end up there must feel really good. It
does your stuff in this thing where you know, like
even someone even if someone doesn't buy it, like people
are seeing your stuff in masks as they go through.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, seeing the name, I didn't think that I would
get any kick out of it, but it really did well.
Two things give me a kick being able to see
made in Nigeria on our clothes because Nigeria. First of all,
I say always say that ourpr in America is terrible,
even in Nigeria, Like there's kind of a bias to
whards made in Nigeria. Things. People will make stuff in
(40:17):
Nigeria and put like maid in China on it, or
like made in Italy or made in like India.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Like that that makes it better.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
That makes it better. And so for me, there's something
really intentional and really powerful about made in Nigeria in
a place like sax right or name in Marcus, Like,
that's really important to me. That is probably probably number one. Actually,
I'm just so incredibly proud of that. And also, you know,
we as a country really were really challenged economically, right,
(40:48):
so to be able to create a company that employs
people in Nigeria produces in Nigeria feels really empowering and
feels amazing.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
How did you end up in Sacks name and Marcus?
Come on, this is that's an incredible fee.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
So I think it would not be fair, it wouldn't
be an accurate telling to not bring up everything that
happened with the murder of George Floyd and the impact
that that had in a number of industries is like
a critical part of the story, Like there's no way
to tell the story without that, and it just wouldn't
be truthful. And the fact that this man was slaughtered
(41:29):
and you know, we all watched, and that's literally what
opened up many doors. I'm not saying that's the only reason,
but there was just a seismic change in what consumers
were demanding from stores, especially these stores that you know
posted the black squares, right, So when twenty twenty happened,
(41:50):
and I think people were challenging these companies to say, hey,
do better in terms of the product assortment, who you're
offering to us, who you're employing. Right, They were asking
these questions kind of a three sixty degree view at
how people were kind of putting their money or not
putting the money where their mouth is. I think it
(42:12):
compelled companies to kind of do a lot of inward examination,
and many didn't like what they saw, right, Like, we
don't have any black brands on our shelves. So we're
putting up a score, but our clothes don't represent this
thing that we're saying that we care about. And so
I think that compelled many companies to make a change.
(42:32):
And so one of the buyers at Sacks, Kelsey, she
came across the brand and she brought us to the
other buyer who was also named Kelsey, and said, hey,
we think this would be great, And they were the
first to I think it was within but this is
what I'm saying, was like within weeks, Like you know,
we went from back.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
In weeks the Black Square.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
It was probably a month or two after that.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Weeks, Yeah, it's weeks.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah. But then Mercedes, remember she was prepared because she
had been demanding a collection every season with photographs, So
I was prepared. You know, what do they say about luck, right,
Opportunity meets preparation.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Being at a department store change good fortunes as a brand.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Well, what happens is that once you're in one or two,
then other I think people begin to look at you
a little bit differently, and other stores start looking at
you differently. So that's certainly changed. I mean, so that's
definitely changed. I mean I was able to quit my job,
finally quit your job.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I mean that's you.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
That was everything that that was really.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
To be able to do that, you know, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I feel very blessed, I really do. I feel profoundly blessed,
and I think it's just one piece of a more
Probably I feel like fashion is the doorway to like
I come from a long line of teachers. Both my
parents are teachers, my grandparents were teachers, so part of
me really feels like that's probably my bigger calling, not
(44:02):
necessarily like in a classroom, but using this opportunity. The
storytelling piece of the brand is and really critical for
me in terms of how do I tell stories that
complicate the perception of Nigeria, the perception of Africa, the
perception of Yuba culture, you know, things like our first
and only video to ever go viral was a video
(44:25):
from our twenty seventeen editorial shoot of our model getting
her hair done the way my mom had done my hair,
the hair style that I took to my first day
at junior high. But there's a video of the model
getting her hair done and getting wrapped with thread. So
literally we shot it while we were shooting our editorial
(44:47):
collection and posted on Instagram. I wake up the next
day and I have like two thousand more followers. Then
when I went to bed and my just like, something's
happening on your Instagram and literally was that video. Shortly thereafter,
someone at Vogue saw it and actually wrote an article
about Bussio what about how this brand was like exploring
(45:07):
traditional Nigerian hair styles through kind of documenting and telling
the story. It was just about the hair, not really
about the clothes. But I was like I'll take that.
So I was like, we're in Vogue, you know, because
you know my exploration of you're about culture and Nigerian
traditions really in an attempt to situate the clothes, Like
(45:32):
I don't want you to just like go and buy
our clothes, Like I want you to understand the place
from which this comes from. And so the storytelling piece
is very compelling to me, Like I want you to
I believe everyone can wear our clothes because I get
that question a lot, but I want you to do
a little more.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Can be a white woman?
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah, absolutely, I get it all the time. I get
it all the time, but I want you to do
a little more work in terms of understand a little
bit about the culture from which this comes, understand why
clothes are really important in that cultural context. And so
that's my job to take you there and to teach
you a little bit more about this place. And so
(46:10):
documenting our process, taking our customers along with us as
we make these clothes from the place in which we
make it is like a really critical piece of the brand.
If it's our food, if it's particular specific places in Nigeria,
if it's the actual making of the fabrics. You know,
so so much of the dying process I will document,
(46:33):
you know, I'm taking people along with me on that journey.
Like so it's been really an amazing entry way. I
thought it was going to just be about the close,
but it's become about so much more than that.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
It's amazing. Your mentor asked whether you're in it to
be famous or rich. Yeah, seems like you've created a
Thurston lane which is also to teach.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, to teach and to have purpose, right, Like, cuse
close all of this is we're all going to die,
Like it's it's just closed at the end of the day, right,
And I guess maybe I'm also at a point in
my life where I'm really thinking about what it means
to have like impact and what it means to have
you know, what is it that people remember about their
interactions with me, or with my brand or just in life.
(47:16):
You know, what are the things that actually touch people.
It's less about the actual physical thing, and it's much
more about like did you teach someone, how did you
make them feel? Did you inspire them? You know? And
I don't have all the answers, but I certainly know
that mentors made a huge, huge difference for me along
the way. And I always hate listening to these types
(47:37):
of conversations and just feel like I didn't get anything
practical out of it, Like I got like just do it,
you know. So that's why I'm like trying to drop
as much resources as I can, because I really do
think that it's really helpful for people to, you know,
I want to listen to this conversation and be like, Okay,
this is what I'm going to do next. You know,
it's not that easy. And then the other thing is
that the road was long for me.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
The road you didn't just go for your dream and
that's the thing you did it. That's the thing. You
didn't just go for your dream like you went some
other ways.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
It was just long. It was long and secuitous. But
I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
It's it's cliche to say, but I wouldn't change anything
for the journey. This whole journey has taught me. Like
when you have that little voice that tells you to
do something, do it, like, do it immediately. It's actually
it's coming with its own power. It's like that's how
universe life is trying to help you. Yeah, you know,
And oftentimes we either have like numbed that voice that
(48:31):
we don't hear it, or we hear it and we say,
oh no, we can't. I can't really do that. Oh no,
if I do, you know, we think about all the
reasons not to do it, and I still do it now.
But what I know is that every single time I've
listened to that voice and done the thing that it's
told me to do, my life has changed. Even if
it's by a tiny degree, it's changed. And so many
tiny degrees is where you get to where you want
(48:53):
to go.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Well, thank you for sharing today, pussayo Olpona.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Well, thank you. Nice to meet you justin It was
a wonderful conversation.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
That was Bussyo Olopona, owner of Busio n YC. I'd
like to thank her for the time she took out
of her busy schedu during New York Fashion Week to
share her story to bring joy. The Yoruba definition of
busaio says a lot. What brings us joy and what
about us our likes, desires, talents might bring joy to others.
(49:25):
It's a simple but large question that could help hone
our path. After all, when life's many unpredictable moments knock
us off course, what do we often turn to the
joy in our lives? So if you make your joy,
your business success becomes a real privilege and well a joy.
(49:46):
By the way, Busaiyah wanted to make sure I shared
with you a list of books she's found helpful throughout
her journey. You could find those in the show notes
for this episode. Started from the Bottom is produced by
David Jah, edited by Keisha Williams, Engineered by Eventaliday, Booked
by Lord Morgan with production help from Lea Rose. Executive
(50:09):
produced by Jacob Goldstein, Who's not all open the videos
for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Ben Holliday and
David Ja featuring Anthony Jaggs and Savannah Joe Lack. Listen
to start Up from the bottom wherever you get your
podcasts and if you want ad free episodes available one
week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin
(50:30):
dot fm or the Apple Show page for more information.
If you like her show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast app. I'm justin Richmond.
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