May 2, 2023 • 38 mins
When Tremaine Emory became the Creative Director at Supreme, he joined an elite but tiny group of Black people calling the shots in the fashion industry. Having recently survived an aortic aneurysm Tremaine opens up in this conversation about what success means in the context of life and death, and how a hood kid from Queens, NY became an icon of style.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Over the years, the streetwear trend has moved beyond
the actual streets and has been adopted by big box
stores and even luxury European fashion brands. That change wasn't
an accident. People like Virgil Ablo, who in twenty eighteen
(00:36):
became artistic director of Louis Vutan, and whether or not
we'd like to admit it, also, people like Kanye West
wore pioneers in the modern luxury streetwear crossover. But so
was my guest today, Tremaine Emery Tremaine is now the
creative director at Supreme, which in and of itself is
a major win, but considering he's the first black man
(00:58):
or woman to ever hold that position, it's a coup.
Speaking with Tremaine was eye opening the way his parents
raised him to explore and encouraged his passions and education,
while also imbuing him with a strong sense that having
fun was still important. I mean, I imagine that's the kind
of balanced approach to life that's allowed to Remaine to
flourish in a field as precarious as fashion. I'm sure
(01:21):
it's also helped to navigate his recent hardships, like the
loss of his best friend Virtual autload of cancer and
Tremain's own recent health scare that he's still recovering from.
This is starting from the bottom harder and success stories
from people like us. What's your day to day like
(01:45):
these days?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Man, just chilling. I'm recovering. So I had out of aneurism,
out of lower aortic aneurism, and I'm recovering. You know,
eight out of ten people passed from having it, so
I was fortunate enough to survive it when in the
(02:08):
hospital in octell and in of December, right before New
Year's got out. So I've been spending most of my
time recovering doing physical therapy because the aneurysm, the lower
aortic aneurysm, really it messed up my legs. So I'm
just building up muscle on my legs and waiting on
some nerves to wake up. So yeah, but my health
(02:31):
is great. I'm actually healthier than probably I've been in
a long time. I had a lot of had and
have a lot of support from people in my life. Yeah,
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I mean I imagine this sort of slowed down like this
sort of taking you know, sort of recovery time. It's
probably the first time in a while that you really
slowed down, right.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, Yeah, definitely. It's been interesting because it's like also
since I'm in New York, so I hadn't lived in
New York in thirteen years. I've been on you know.
I was living in London since twenty ten for seven years,
and then moved to la and then moved to New
(03:15):
York in twenty twenty two February. My first day at
Supreme was out Valentine's Day, February fourteen. It's been the
first time I've just been like not on the airplane
every week or like on a train, you know, trains, planes, automobiles,
you know. So it's been good. A lot of it.
(03:36):
Part of it was just like when I was in
the hospital, my focus was just getting out the hospital, surviving,
doing what I could to listen to the doctors. And
it's interesting when you get that sick, when you're like
on the verge of death, which was like a couple
of times whilst I was in the hospital, it's you know,
will power. Definitely, you gotta want to be here. That
(03:58):
plays a part of it. So I want to I wanted,
I wanted to be here, so not just being grateful
for surviving because in the end we all die. So
you survived something, but it's only extending, you know. So
my it's my focus has been on the five w's,
(04:19):
So who, what, when, where, and why? You know, It's like,
well why, you know, why what do I want to do?
But again, before I got sick, I always kind of
lived my life like that because that's how my parents
raised me. So this life is finite. So we gotta
have fun. We gotta be good to each other, we
gotta love each other, we gotta have fun. My dads
(04:39):
they have fun, you know, and do the things you
want to do. So I always always been on that wave.
I got maybe perspective on far as things is like
myself having a family. I don't have one yet, I
don't have any kids, and stuff on that more even
but even that, I had that perspective of wanting that
and wanting to find the right person to build a
(05:01):
family with. But far as like living it to the limit,
I did that already, you know, maybe to maybe to
my detriment, maybe too much.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Maybe too much, I mean, just even thinking too like
with that happening so close to you know, what happened
with Virgil and I guess maybe you probably knew about
that for a while. I mean, I don't know. Man
would have been like for me, really hard to process,
you know, you.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Know what I felt. It was definitely something I thought about,
even I remember thinking about it in the ambulance, like
I thought about V. And you know, like me and V,
both young black men, creatives breaking into a world that
(05:48):
didn't want us. There necessarily ones that used to having
people that look like us there. Who were you know,
a rogue squadron trying to take down the empire, you know,
and you know, to lose a comrade. That's the first
time I lost a comrade. And you know, just like
even stuff with the Supreme thing, like I got the letter,
(06:09):
I got my offer to take the position the same
week he died. And the last time I seen him,
the last thing he said to me, he's like, what
you're going to do with the Supreme You're going to
take the Supreme job. I remember we were both staying
at the Mercer and he was staying on the sixth floor.
I was staying on the fourth. So I got off
the elevator first. That's the last time I seen him
getting off the elevator and then he was you know,
(06:30):
he was gone a month later. So it's like even
just not even to get to tell him, even though
in this grand scheme of thing, it don't even matter.
It's just a job. It's kind of arbitrary, but you know,
all we fought for, you know, just like Cats, our crew,
things we talked about late night way back. I'm talking
twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, before Off White, before did Them Tears,
(06:55):
before No Vacancy n Cats was just like DJing making
getting two hundred dollars to DJ, just trying to make
it happen, and we had a lot of ideas and
just yeah, just like your comrade to go be able
to build with them or call them and talk to
about the emotions and the you know, the highs and
(07:16):
the lows. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sucks basically a side
and v I basically studied under them. They friends, slash mentors,
you know what I mean. It's like.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Luke.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I'm not comparing myself saying I'm Luke Skywalk the character,
but just like when Obi Wan went out, you know
what I mean, it's like, fuck, the mission continues, but damn,
you know what I mean. Yeah, and it's like it's
like that with Virgil on a side, because those are
the two.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Guys, yeah, man, a side, the DJ who was a
collaborator in some of your early ventures before Supreme and Virgil,
but also your parents too, man. They seemed like they
were super ambitious people to come from middle of nowhere Georgia, Yeah,
George and Georgia.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
To fifth when they lived there, fifteen hundred, two thousand people,
one red light town, you know, one red light most
people went and worked worked, you know, bricklayers or worked
at the pe Cam factory or nah. My parents are radicals.
They they got they got up out of there and
they were curious and that curiosity got passed to me,
(08:21):
that curiosity about the world and not being afraid of
the world.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, because to move from Harlem, Georgia to New York City,
like that's a huge no.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
My mom, My mom and dad are deep. Like I remember, like,
you know, we're going to see Pavaratti at Central Park.
Who's Pavaratti. He's an opera singer. He's got the Harlem
Boys choir or singing with him. And it was a
free concert at Central Park. I heard opera. I'm a
young I'm a young black kid that live in Jamaica. Queens.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
They used to make a Queens to Central Park is
not a It's not a short trip exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And I'm we're going to take you to see this
confluence of culture. Halem boys choir singing with this Italian
opera singer. So even so it's not even this take
me to opera. They take me to opera. But then
on stage of opera there's some people that look like me.
My parents are very conscious of these things, and so
that mix I had, and I think that's a big
(09:19):
part of my creative output is living in the hood.
It was great, it was an adventure. It was like
I tell people, my childhood was like Sandlot meets boys
in the hood, you know what I mean, Because it
was like that. It was like we played basketball, football
all the time. We having fun, but then there was
the dark side of shit that would go down too.
You know, I'm privilege with the type of family I had,
(09:42):
not perfect, but privileged the type of family and the
stuff they taught me, and that, you know, it's kind
of my shield and armor against the bullshit of the world,
because there's a lot of bullshit out there. You know,
but my parents prepared me for it. The best micro
for macro story. I could tell you my dad when
he was in the army for six years and he
(10:04):
learned how to become a motion picture photographer, so you know,
shoot film. He became great at it. And then when
he got out, he started working for a TV station
in Atlanta, and then then he got the job at
CBS in New York. I think in the second ever
black TV news cameraman at CBS in New York. And
(10:27):
then we moved. Oh yeah, we moved. We moved when
I was three months old, nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
One, second only the second black cameraman in CBS New York.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, my dad's Emmy Award winning TV news cameraman. He
has like two Emmy Awards. He's been nominated maybe I
think ten times. He has two Emmys. But he needed,
you know, he needed a frontive action to get his job,
you know what I mean. That's how that's how he
got his job. He couldn't just all those anti in
(11:01):
front of action people. My dad an Emmy Award winning
TV news camera and he needed a firm of action
to get his job, you know what I mean. They
would not give him that job if it wasn't for
government intervention. But that's a that's another podcast.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Well, we're we're at a point now where people are
really again looking at like again, how we have to
fight this battle again in front of action, like.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yo, bro, look at look at me and Van and
Maximilian Max you know over at Ferragamo. You know, now
you got Pat Louis. But fashions existed a while now.
How many black carave directors have there been in the
history of fashion? The history counted on your hand, Joe Hayford,
(11:43):
he's the first, i think black careve director for Javanci
in the eighties or nineties. And then you know he
was the first and he was European, he's British. Virgil
was the first African American at a French fashion house ever.
And that's twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, that's forty years later, thirty years later for thirty five.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
So it's kind of like the same reaction you had
about my dad being the second chieving news camera man
at CBS in nineteen one. Shit ain't really change if
v was, you know, the second black crave director at
the French fashion house in the first African American. You know,
Supreme is an American fashion house, skate brand, but they
(12:23):
make fashion right to where I'm a crave director. I mean,
how many black crave directors have there been at American brands?
Not a lot, not even relegated to black? What about Asian?
What about Hispanic? You know what I mean? You keep going,
you know what I mean, It's just.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
How do you contend with that? Because I mean, you
are in an industry that it feels like to the outsider,
the outside eyes, has only really recently embraced black people. Man,
you know, did you feel that then? Have you felt
that throughout your career? Do you still feel that now
every once in a while, or.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Like example, you know, I worked at Jay Crewe and
two thousand and one, I was working at Jay Crewe.
I was a sales associate and I had long braids
or I'll either rock bridge or fro like your hear
just like yours. And they and they said to me,
this is see, this is funny. It's before the acceptance
of black people and culture and in the fashion world.
They were like the CEO came in and you know,
(13:20):
he said, you basically, your hair is not the standard.
If you look at the if you look at our catalog,
no one has hair like that. And they wrote me up.
So who I am. There was this bookstore called Revolution Books,
not far from the job, and I went to Revolution
Books and I bought the book about in New York
(13:41):
employee rights. That's me. And I went through the book
and I read. I called up the j crew line
and I read, I read it out the complaint line.
I said, New York State, you cannot discriminate against someone
with immutable characteristics. My hair is an immutable characteristic. Next day, oh, Tremaine,
(14:04):
there was some gray area in that discussion. We're sorry,
d D. I got up out of there, but I
didn't let that deterred me from working in fashion, work
in retail. I didn't let that stop me. Imagine if
I would have let the motherfuckers stop me if I said, oh,
you know what, and guess what. Mark Jacobs wasn't like that.
(14:26):
Down from Mark to Robert Duffy to everyone I worked
with that people of all colors and genders working on
all levels of the company at that time. You know,
for myself, I became a start off as a stot guy,
ended up as an assistant manager, and up until you know,
with Mark and Robert running it, you know they treat
everyone the same. Everyone got the same clothing allowance. Security
(14:48):
dudes got the same clothing allowance as the store manager. Anyway,
it wasn't perfect. But what I'm saying is I didn't
let how Jaku treated me on some racist shit because
it was straight racist bullshit. I didn't let that deter me.
So that's my thing is just yeah, I can't let
I can't. I can't, I can't. I can't let nothing
deter me. It's obstacles. My aneurysm is an obstacle or
(15:12):
a dude telling me thinking I'm homeless and kicking me
out a cafe the first week I moved back to
New York. It's Crave director of Supreme. That happened. Yeah,
straight up, you know what I mean. And you know,
dude kicked me out. I said, you gotta get out
of here. I told you before not to come in here.
He thought I was homeless. So but again that's his problem.
(15:33):
But I'm also gonna press him. I'm gonna press him.
I'm gonna call and press that place, and then I'm
gonna move on. You know what I mean, and.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Not let it become your problem.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah. Yeah, well it is my problem, but I'm not
gonna let it stop me.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
After the break, Tremaine talks about what it was about
style that made him fall in love with it. For me,
it's funny, like I grew up skating on the West Coast,
like in the nineties, and so for me, fashion was
(16:11):
always wasn't something I deeply cared about in terms of
brands with things. I just knew like, okay, how do
I express myself? And it was like I'm skating. There's
like a few companies Vans or whatever right from out here.
But I would get magazines and I would see things
coming out of New York like Zoo York or Supreme.
It was for someone like me on the West Coast,
(16:33):
it was very intimidating to see the styles and the
trends coming out of New York. Having grown up in
it in hip hop in New York eighties and nineties,
when did you first fall in love with it? And
how was that viewing the evolution of it?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Fall in love with like style, like yeah, clothing, yes, yeah, man,
I mean I always been obsessed with style, and I'm
conveying emotion through the way you dress and conveying texture,
color on proportion. I think it started with my parents,
just like how my parents dressed and what they were into,
(17:10):
and then their style, and then going to school. And
then also I used to spend my summers in Harlem, Georgia,
so every summer I go there, and just like you know,
like my uncle Ray, he was definitely a style icon
in my eyes. My uncle Ray, like his nickname was Sharper,
you know what I mean, Like the way he would
just break off his hat, whether he had on a
(17:32):
dressy style hat or like a truck a hat. He
always he always said, I gotta break your hat off, right.
Style was incredible. And then yeah, just movies. I think
movies is a big part of it. My parents owned
a video store, just us Videos and Elmhurst Queens and yeah,
and East Elmhurst and the Hood. They owned a video
store in the eighties. So just watching films, and you know,
(17:56):
obviously every every film has a stylist, has someone that
does the wardrobe, you know, whether it's taxi driver or
do the right thing, you know what I mean, or
John go Art film you know what I mean, contempt,
So it's like films. It's where you know, a lot
(18:16):
of picked up a lot of style from that and.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Then when you saw it, because like for me, I
would see those same films and see the styles be
very impressed. But you must have had some kind of
eye to not to see it and be able to
incorporate that into your day to day, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, I don't know. It's just always, you know, always
been on it, man, Like I always tell his story
and interviews. But Yo, when I was six years old,
my parents took me to get a cat, and they're like, yo,
you gotta name the cat. And the cat was a
Calico cat. So Calico's got stripes, spots, gold gray, black spots.
(18:56):
Whatever I named the fashion, I named the cat fashion.
I feel like she reminded me of like one of
my mom's dresses or something like that, you know what
I mean. And like so I kind of just always
been into it, man. And then like once I hit
jumped off the porch, you know, we'd be on Colisseum
every day, going to the coliseum, going to Jamaica, app
(19:17):
going in the stores. Then I start hopping on the train,
go downtown, going in the stores. That's how I first
learned the James Jevier Like me and James Jeba have
been in each other's six degrees radius probably since the
year nineteen ninety nine, two thousand, because I discovered the
store he owned called Union, and the Union was a
(19:41):
shop that had all kinds of brands. They sold Stucie.
I think there was the first store to sell Stuscie
in New York. And I used to just hang out there.
It was kind of like a Union rat. I remember
my first thing I bought from the Union was this
black Jesus sweatshirt during by this brand called Sir, which
was a streetwear brand of the time, and it was
ran by this guy named Russ and he did this
(20:02):
thing where he had a you could buy the sweatshirt
or the M sixty five with the black Jesus or
the Jesus, you know what I mean. You could choose
which one you want. And to me, I was like, damn,
this is deeper than just clothing, Like you know what
I mean, I'm like, And then I bought it. I
used to wear it. I remember the reaction I used
to wear when I got that sweatshirt was like crazy,
(20:23):
people stop you, like that's my Savior. People be like laughing,
that's black. Jesus ain't black. Oh watch ill, is you
a light? Cats stopping you in the street, like yo,
let me let me give you the knowledge though they yeah,
is your a white? Cats? In front of the Jamaica's
Jamaica the Jamaica AD train station, they see me with
the black Jesus sweatshirt. They're like, yo, come me to God,
(20:43):
put you on. I'm like, nah, I'm good. You guys
are racist, you know, like you guys are racist. I
don't fuck with y'all, but in respect to Israelites, but
I don't really rock that doctrine. But anyway, you know,
I remember, like I grew up with cats that would
say stuff to me like yo, while you be hanging
out downtown, they don't want to stand there. The gay
people there. It's more expensive there, And I'd be like, well,
(21:07):
I don't got no problem with gay people to y'all
go to the Red Lobster. Y'all go to bbq's. I'm
gonna spend the same amount of money at Lovely Day
and maybe the food's better than or not. I just
want to have this food too. Y'all still do Bbq's
I still do Red to this day. I still do
Red Lobster. So cats saying they scared or they don't
(21:28):
want to go hang out downtown. I knew there was
something down there for me, and yeah, I had to
deal with some bullshit down there, but there's bullshit in
the hood too, we dodging bullets, you know what I mean.
So it's like I'm getting knowledge from the hood and
so much. I learned so much from guys and girls
(21:49):
and people there, you know what I mean, about life,
the human condition and more morals and being a stand
up person and so many things. I've learned loads of
stuff from hanging out downtown too, and hanging out in
the city and being around other walks of life. So
I can't let the powers that be stop me from
(22:10):
being where I want to be. Yeah, So then I
was hanging out there, and then my man Wilkins took
over as a manager, and I met him and I
used to hang it. So I started hanging out there
like every day, and all the cats that worked there
allowed me just to hang out. I was broke, dude,
you know what I mean. And they give me T
shirts on the low and then so to see this
(22:32):
a store that had these brands that were local that
were small runs of T shirts, and they were flipping
ideas and flipping iconography and flipping logos from popular culture
and from things we knew of, you know. So even
just just seeing that communication through T shirts and sweatshirts
and clothing, and I'm looking at the shot a shirt
(22:53):
and Wilkins goes, you like that T shirt? I'm like yeah,
And then he took it and put it in a
bag and gave it to me and he's like, Yo,
that's for you. Just make sure you come back and
kick it with me, you know what I mean? Like that,
like real g shit, Like Yo. It was ill like
Union was it was. It was dope. It was just
like it was start provoking, you know, the T shirts
(23:13):
and the sweatshirts and the stuff, and there it was.
It wasn't just fodder. It was something behind it. And
I was to hang out. And so it's kind of
why I start working in Soho to be near Union.
So I got a job at Kate Spade back in
like two thousand and two, after I was working at a
liquor store in the hood, and then I got a
job at kse Spade and then after Kate Spade got
(23:33):
the Mark Jacobs job. But Union is where I learned it.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Learned it after the break, Tremaine and I get into
what it takes to be a great creative director for
those those of us were uninitiated. What are the skills
it takes to be a creative director of a company,
(23:59):
fashion brand.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Done Dune Dune? To be a creative director is it's
It's not about sitting there and designing every garment or
this senator. It's about being a leader and guiding a
team with a vision and feeling for what each season
is going to be and what's the story. What's the feeling?
(24:24):
Who are the muses, who are the people we're designing for?
What are the references? When the team goes out and
looks for references? What are we looking for? You know,
it's this season? What's the edge? What's the mean? Like,
what's the meaning? What are we trying to say? Were
trying to say something about New York? We trying to
say something about society? What are we speaking about? What
are the things we pull in from? What errors are
(24:45):
we pulling from? You're the coach, You're the director, You're
Martin Scorsese, Mark Scorsese, you don't edit the film. He's
not the cinematographer, you know, like Spike Lee Crookland author
Jafa is the cinematographer. Spike Lee's the director. He's the
crave director of the film. And you put together the
(25:07):
team and work with the team to create the film,
the clothing, the food, the restaurant, the bookstore, whatever it is.
That's what the crave director does.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
You know, you're kind of like the general, like you're
marshaling in every resource available to accomplish something. So like
all the disparate positions and talents, breaking them together and
figuring out the vision, giving them the vision for how
to move forward and what to do and how to
do the best work and all that.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
And you know, also listening career director ain't just telling
your team what to do. Is listening to your team?
Career director has the final say but doesn't mean to say.
Is what you believe. It's you guiding and listening to
your team, listening to what's going on in the world
the customer. But you know, you're nothing without the team,
(26:01):
you know, and the team needs you too. And the
more that people understand that, the more the better you
can work. And that's why I was like, I don't
get you wrapped up in the title.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
But it is an accomplishment. I mean, it's a real
I mean it is an honor in a lot of ways. Still,
even though you say you don't put much on the title,
I just want to make sure it's like you understand,
like it is. It's a real honor to that position.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
It's a great honor, especially to work for a brand
like Supreme specifically and what Supreme stands for and what
James Jeb stands for and what Aaron and the people
that have been there for a long time, and it's
an absolute it's an absolute honor, just like it was an
honor to be do art direction at Stucy beforehand and
(26:46):
all the stuff, all of it's been an honor. Yeah,
every you know, definitely.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
If I'm like a sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty year
old and I wanted to aspire to be like you
become a creative director of like a beloved brand, what
are steps you could take to do that? Like? How
do you work your way to that?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Kind of a.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
And obvious there's some magic involved, there's some luck, involved,
of course, but.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I would say I would say focus on spending a
much time within reason around people you love and share
the same vision as you, and care about the things
you care about, and see where that will lead you. Honestly,
I didn't start hanging out with a side and other
(27:37):
friends and you know, like, yo, me and this guy
going to start a brand one day. He's this cool
dude that I learned a lot from a great person
and hilarious vis cool dude, hilarious and grew to love
these guys Wilkins at Union. You know, I hung out
there because I love these guys and we have fun.
(27:58):
I didn't know I would learn stuff there that would
use the rest of my life. And what I'm trying
to say moral of the story is I love style,
I love art. I stayed my black ass up in
the museum. I stayed in my black ass up in
a bookstore. I stayed my black ass window shopping. I
stayed my black ass on the internet. I stayed my
(28:19):
black ass up in the books. You know, like, I
just hung around things I love and then if you're
really lucky, something will happen. But there's no guarantee. There's
no deserves in this life? Who would write down that
When I finally achieve and become a creative director of Supreme,
six months later I get aneurism and almost die, and
now in the fight of my life trying to get
(28:42):
my legs back and take care of my health. There's
no deserves. So my thing is, I got no regrets
if I would have died, I got no regrets because
I spent as much. I spent a lot of time
with people I love and doing the things I love,
and it led me to great heights, which considered success.
(29:03):
But when I was in the bed and literally at
points my deathbed, fighting for my life, what mattered most
was the people coming to visit me, and my friends
and my girl, and you know who showed up a
sad cactus. You know, Andy changed Yebia, you know, and
(29:27):
he started off as my boss, but now I value
his friendship more than anything. If I never worked another
day with him. So I don't know how to tell
you how to be a crave director. I know how
to tell you how to be a full human being.
And being a complete human being will protect you and
(29:51):
get you where you need to go. It might not
make you creative director, it might not help you survive aneurism,
but if you do become a crave director, you're going
to have friends that keep you down on earth, and
friends I get to give you advice and not actually
care about that title and just care about that you
haven't changed much, or that you've become becoming a better
(30:11):
person and a more compassionate and kind of person. And
so then back to the creative director thing, if you
foster these real friendships with people that are into art,
maybe that will help you grow your skills, get a recommendation,
blah blah blah. But it's got to come from a
(30:31):
real place. For me, there's people that do it different ways,
some people who are the straight climbers, like yo, da
da da. I'm gonna hang out with this person because
it can get me here, and I'm gonna do this.
I'm gonna work ten thousand hours. The shit ain't all
about working titles. And you know, yeah, you need health
insurance and you got your dreams, and but what I've
(30:52):
done on my own and with a side is just
as valid what I've done with Supreme. So if I
never got to Supreme job, I'm still me. I'm still
tremain and I'm still have the same ideas did them.
Tears still exist, No vacancy in still exist. I'm not
more because of supreme that I think that mentality for
(31:13):
me is which we'll get you there? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Do you feel like you're the rarety? Do you feel
like you're the exception to the rule on this case,
like it feels like in your industry? Would you say
that that's a rare, a rare way to move in
your industry?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
MM, I don't know. You'd have to do a control
and you talk to all them. You have to ground
up all the creative directors and ask them. I don't know, man,
I can only speak for me. I don't want to
speak for anyone else, you know, artist. Yeah, I just
(31:51):
hung around the stuff I love and start making things
and did my best at it and support the community
that supported me. And then this stuff happened. But I
didn't plan it out. I was just trying to impress
a side, you know what I mean, trying to impress Virgil,
you know what I mean, like doing things to impress
(32:11):
my friends. That's it. And I just wanted to hear
the music. MC talked my shit on the mic, let
people know a side is the best DJ. We'd start
doing that. We used to split one hundred bucks our
first gig, we split a hundred bucks. We used to
split one hundred bucks every Friday night, midnight in the narrows.
You know. We split one hundred pighs. Yeah. Yeah, I
(32:34):
was the host and A Side was DJing. And then
we started getting little, bigger gigs, you know, two hundred bucks,
five hundred bucks. Then we start traveling the world to
do it and getting big checks to do it. You know.
But I'm not saying we hippies or like straight like
we don't care about money. But what it came from love.
A side studies, a master studies the music thing. You know.
(32:57):
He owned over ten thousand records, you know. And me,
I'd love for just toasting the crowd and creating an
environment and finding a venue that with a good sound
and this that and the third where the party could
work and things happened grow out a night life, you know,
and we loved it and we did it, you know.
That's how we kind of linked up. That's how I
linked up with v over some night some night life shit,
(33:19):
you know, and that led to other things That's the
thing I saw. I can't give kids the blueprint because
my life is I grew up. When I grew up,
I moved to London. I couldn't predict Robert Duffy was
gonna move me to London. So how can I tell
a kid how to become a craveve director?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Right, Jacobs? You didn't know that was going to take
you from New York to London?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, even like you know how I met and worked
with Frank, who has become a great friend, is like.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
How did you meet Frank Ocean?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
How did that through V? Because we first night hung
out with V and me a sign V, hanging out
at the spot that I was I was working for
Serge Becker. I was a social director for Labodega Nigra.
So I'm in there hosting, putting stuff together, a size,
DJing up and there. And then one night my man
Kyle Demers, who works as Supreme, he's in town and
(34:11):
he's like, Yo, I'm with V. Have you guys ever met?
I'm like, not really met. Once He's like, you want
to come have a drink with us? We go down there,
we have a drink, playing music, listening to music, and
then V was like, Yo, can my friend come by?
I was like sure, and this is the genius of V.
Like he was so demure and then not dropping no
(34:34):
names or nothing. So to open the door, and it's Frank.
And I remember you had this dope, dope jacket. It
was sublimated trumpel oil, so it was like a bubble coat,
but it looked like a leather coat and a jean jacket.
So that's the first thing. I'm like, Yo, it's jacket's fire.
I'm like, oh, it's not Frank. And then we met
and then we just became cool, you know, like but
(34:55):
very casual. There was no you know, exchange of email,
a couple of emails here and there, what's up. And
then over years we got cool and then we started
working together and you know, I did did what I
did with him, and it's just like I can't tell
a kid how to do that. It came from friendship,
me and Kyle being friends and then Kyle being like,
(35:18):
let's have a drink, everyone being calm and chill, and
then that's it. And then if something you can do
workwise comes out of that cool, but that's not the intention.
And intention is to hang out.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
What did come out of your relationship with Frank?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
In terms of work, I was a six foot two
fly on the wall whilst he created Blonde and Boys
Don't Crime Magazine. I'm listed as a contributor on Boys
Don't Crime Magazine. You could call creative with consultant, I
say creative assistant and we just talk and sometimes ideas
(35:52):
would come out of that. Again, he had a team,
a small team of people he worked with. He's the
leader Crave director, his own Crave director, his own visionary.
You know, he's Frank, writer, producer, singer and artists, photographer.
He does a lot jewelry. You know, he designs jewelry
(36:13):
now as Julie Brand Homer. And yeah, I was like
a fly on a wall that would get asked questions
sometimes and I would offer my opinion or sometimes suggests
maybe suggest something or connected connected dot. So you know,
how do you become a Crave director? How do you
make it at Carnegie Hall? Right? Well, it's the joke.
(36:33):
How do you make it to car How do you
get in the cab? Which way? How do you get
to Carnegie Hall? Hard work? You know what I mean,
like hardworking luck, But maybe you want to be a
crave director and you end up somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah, man, Well, thank you so much for your time
for man. Man, it's just beautiful here when you speak likewise,
was doing great talking to you, man, beautiful conversation. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I'm around all right, man, Thank you, bro be easy,
all right, piece shall.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I really want to thank Tremaine for taking the time
to share his story with us. Obviously a lot of
people are taking times out of the busy schedule, time
away from work to appear on the show. But in
Tremayne's case, he's not just taking time away from work.
He's also taking time away from his own physical recovery.
Real pleasure talking to this guy. And I can't think
of a group of people who've had a bigger outsized
(37:22):
impact on a single industry than Tremaine and his cohort.
Started from the Bottom is produced by David Jah, edited
by keyshow Williams, engineered by Benlliday, booked by Laura Morgan
with production help from Lea Rose. The show is executive
produced by Jacob Goldstein, who's not all up in the
(37:44):
videos for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Bent Holliday
and David Jaw featuring Anthony Yaggs and Savannah Joe Lack.
Listen to Started from the Bottom. Wherever you get your
podcasts and if you want ad free episodes available one
week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin
dot fm or the Apple Show page for more information.
(38:05):
If you like our show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast that I'm just En Richmond.
Pushkin. Over the years, the streetwear trend has moved beyond
the actual streets and has been adopted by big box
stores and even luxury European fashion brands. That change wasn't
an accident. People like Virgil Ablo, who in twenty eighteen
(00:36):
became artistic director of Louis Vutan, and whether or not
we'd like to admit it, also, people like Kanye West
wore pioneers in the modern luxury streetwear crossover. But so
was my guest today, Tremaine Emery Tremaine is now the
creative director at Supreme, which in and of itself is
a major win, but considering he's the first black man
(00:58):
or woman to ever hold that position, it's a coup.
Speaking with Tremaine was eye opening the way his parents
raised him to explore and encouraged his passions and education,
while also imbuing him with a strong sense that having
fun was still important. I mean, I imagine that's the kind
of balanced approach to life that's allowed to Remaine to
flourish in a field as precarious as fashion. I'm sure
(01:21):
it's also helped to navigate his recent hardships, like the
loss of his best friend Virtual autload of cancer and
Tremain's own recent health scare that he's still recovering from.
This is starting from the bottom harder and success stories
from people like us. What's your day to day like
(01:45):
these days?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Man, just chilling. I'm recovering. So I had out of aneurism,
out of lower aortic aneurism, and I'm recovering. You know,
eight out of ten people passed from having it, so
I was fortunate enough to survive it when in the
(02:08):
hospital in octell and in of December, right before New
Year's got out. So I've been spending most of my
time recovering doing physical therapy because the aneurysm, the lower
aortic aneurysm, really it messed up my legs. So I'm
just building up muscle on my legs and waiting on
some nerves to wake up. So yeah, but my health
(02:31):
is great. I'm actually healthier than probably I've been in
a long time. I had a lot of had and
have a lot of support from people in my life. Yeah,
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I mean I imagine this sort of slowed down like this
sort of taking you know, sort of recovery time. It's
probably the first time in a while that you really
slowed down, right.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, Yeah, definitely. It's been interesting because it's like also
since I'm in New York, so I hadn't lived in
New York in thirteen years. I've been on you know.
I was living in London since twenty ten for seven years,
and then moved to la and then moved to New
(03:15):
York in twenty twenty two February. My first day at
Supreme was out Valentine's Day, February fourteen. It's been the
first time I've just been like not on the airplane
every week or like on a train, you know, trains, planes, automobiles,
you know. So it's been good. A lot of it.
(03:36):
Part of it was just like when I was in
the hospital, my focus was just getting out the hospital, surviving,
doing what I could to listen to the doctors. And
it's interesting when you get that sick, when you're like
on the verge of death, which was like a couple
of times whilst I was in the hospital, it's you know,
will power. Definitely, you gotta want to be here. That
(03:58):
plays a part of it. So I want to I wanted,
I wanted to be here, so not just being grateful
for surviving because in the end we all die. So
you survived something, but it's only extending, you know. So
my it's my focus has been on the five w's,
(04:19):
So who, what, when, where, and why? You know, It's like,
well why, you know, why what do I want to do?
But again, before I got sick, I always kind of
lived my life like that because that's how my parents
raised me. So this life is finite. So we gotta
have fun. We gotta be good to each other, we
gotta love each other, we gotta have fun. My dads
(04:39):
they have fun, you know, and do the things you
want to do. So I always always been on that wave.
I got maybe perspective on far as things is like
myself having a family. I don't have one yet, I
don't have any kids, and stuff on that more even
but even that, I had that perspective of wanting that
and wanting to find the right person to build a
(05:01):
family with. But far as like living it to the limit,
I did that already, you know, maybe to maybe to
my detriment, maybe too much.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Maybe too much, I mean, just even thinking too like
with that happening so close to you know, what happened
with Virgil and I guess maybe you probably knew about
that for a while. I mean, I don't know. Man
would have been like for me, really hard to process,
you know, you.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Know what I felt. It was definitely something I thought about,
even I remember thinking about it in the ambulance, like
I thought about V. And you know, like me and V,
both young black men, creatives breaking into a world that
(05:48):
didn't want us. There necessarily ones that used to having
people that look like us there. Who were you know,
a rogue squadron trying to take down the empire, you know,
and you know, to lose a comrade. That's the first
time I lost a comrade. And you know, just like
even stuff with the Supreme thing, like I got the letter,
(06:09):
I got my offer to take the position the same
week he died. And the last time I seen him,
the last thing he said to me, he's like, what
you're going to do with the Supreme You're going to
take the Supreme job. I remember we were both staying
at the Mercer and he was staying on the sixth floor.
I was staying on the fourth. So I got off
the elevator first. That's the last time I seen him
getting off the elevator and then he was you know,
(06:30):
he was gone a month later. So it's like even
just not even to get to tell him, even though
in this grand scheme of thing, it don't even matter.
It's just a job. It's kind of arbitrary, but you know,
all we fought for, you know, just like Cats, our crew,
things we talked about late night way back. I'm talking
twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, before Off White, before did Them Tears,
(06:55):
before No Vacancy n Cats was just like DJing making
getting two hundred dollars to DJ, just trying to make
it happen, and we had a lot of ideas and
just yeah, just like your comrade to go be able
to build with them or call them and talk to
about the emotions and the you know, the highs and
(07:16):
the lows. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sucks basically a side
and v I basically studied under them. They friends, slash mentors,
you know what I mean. It's like.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Luke.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I'm not comparing myself saying I'm Luke Skywalk the character,
but just like when Obi Wan went out, you know
what I mean, it's like, fuck, the mission continues, but damn,
you know what I mean. Yeah, and it's like it's
like that with Virgil on a side, because those are
the two.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Guys, yeah, man, a side, the DJ who was a
collaborator in some of your early ventures before Supreme and Virgil,
but also your parents too, man. They seemed like they
were super ambitious people to come from middle of nowhere Georgia, Yeah,
George and Georgia.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
To fifth when they lived there, fifteen hundred, two thousand people,
one red light town, you know, one red light most
people went and worked worked, you know, bricklayers or worked
at the pe Cam factory or nah. My parents are radicals.
They they got they got up out of there and
they were curious and that curiosity got passed to me,
(08:21):
that curiosity about the world and not being afraid of
the world.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, because to move from Harlem, Georgia to New York City,
like that's a huge no.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
My mom, My mom and dad are deep. Like I remember, like,
you know, we're going to see Pavaratti at Central Park.
Who's Pavaratti. He's an opera singer. He's got the Harlem
Boys choir or singing with him. And it was a
free concert at Central Park. I heard opera. I'm a
young I'm a young black kid that live in Jamaica. Queens.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
They used to make a Queens to Central Park is
not a It's not a short trip exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And I'm we're going to take you to see this
confluence of culture. Halem boys choir singing with this Italian
opera singer. So even so it's not even this take
me to opera. They take me to opera. But then
on stage of opera there's some people that look like me.
My parents are very conscious of these things, and so
that mix I had, and I think that's a big
(09:19):
part of my creative output is living in the hood.
It was great, it was an adventure. It was like
I tell people, my childhood was like Sandlot meets boys
in the hood, you know what I mean, Because it
was like that. It was like we played basketball, football
all the time. We having fun, but then there was
the dark side of shit that would go down too.
You know, I'm privilege with the type of family I had,
(09:42):
not perfect, but privileged the type of family and the
stuff they taught me, and that, you know, it's kind
of my shield and armor against the bullshit of the world,
because there's a lot of bullshit out there. You know,
but my parents prepared me for it. The best micro
for macro story. I could tell you my dad when
he was in the army for six years and he
(10:04):
learned how to become a motion picture photographer, so you know,
shoot film. He became great at it. And then when
he got out, he started working for a TV station
in Atlanta, and then then he got the job at
CBS in New York. I think in the second ever
black TV news cameraman at CBS in New York. And
(10:27):
then we moved. Oh yeah, we moved. We moved when
I was three months old, nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
One, second only the second black cameraman in CBS New York.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, my dad's Emmy Award winning TV news cameraman. He
has like two Emmy Awards. He's been nominated maybe I
think ten times. He has two Emmys. But he needed,
you know, he needed a frontive action to get his job,
you know what I mean. That's how that's how he
got his job. He couldn't just all those anti in
(11:01):
front of action people. My dad an Emmy Award winning
TV news camera and he needed a firm of action
to get his job, you know what I mean. They
would not give him that job if it wasn't for
government intervention. But that's a that's another podcast.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Well, we're we're at a point now where people are
really again looking at like again, how we have to
fight this battle again in front of action, like.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yo, bro, look at look at me and Van and
Maximilian Max you know over at Ferragamo. You know, now
you got Pat Louis. But fashions existed a while now.
How many black carave directors have there been in the
history of fashion? The history counted on your hand, Joe Hayford,
(11:43):
he's the first, i think black careve director for Javanci
in the eighties or nineties. And then you know he
was the first and he was European, he's British. Virgil
was the first African American at a French fashion house ever.
And that's twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, that's forty years later, thirty years later for thirty five.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
So it's kind of like the same reaction you had
about my dad being the second chieving news camera man
at CBS in nineteen one. Shit ain't really change if
v was, you know, the second black crave director at
the French fashion house in the first African American. You know,
Supreme is an American fashion house, skate brand, but they
(12:23):
make fashion right to where I'm a crave director. I mean,
how many black crave directors have there been at American brands?
Not a lot, not even relegated to black? What about Asian?
What about Hispanic? You know what I mean? You keep going,
you know what I mean, It's just.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
How do you contend with that? Because I mean, you
are in an industry that it feels like to the outsider,
the outside eyes, has only really recently embraced black people. Man,
you know, did you feel that then? Have you felt
that throughout your career? Do you still feel that now
every once in a while, or.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Like example, you know, I worked at Jay Crewe and
two thousand and one, I was working at Jay Crewe.
I was a sales associate and I had long braids
or I'll either rock bridge or fro like your hear
just like yours. And they and they said to me,
this is see, this is funny. It's before the acceptance
of black people and culture and in the fashion world.
They were like the CEO came in and you know,
(13:20):
he said, you basically, your hair is not the standard.
If you look at the if you look at our catalog,
no one has hair like that. And they wrote me up.
So who I am. There was this bookstore called Revolution Books,
not far from the job, and I went to Revolution
Books and I bought the book about in New York
(13:41):
employee rights. That's me. And I went through the book
and I read. I called up the j crew line
and I read, I read it out the complaint line.
I said, New York State, you cannot discriminate against someone
with immutable characteristics. My hair is an immutable characteristic. Next day, oh, Tremaine,
(14:04):
there was some gray area in that discussion. We're sorry,
d D. I got up out of there, but I
didn't let that deterred me from working in fashion, work
in retail. I didn't let that stop me. Imagine if
I would have let the motherfuckers stop me if I said, oh,
you know what, and guess what. Mark Jacobs wasn't like that.
(14:26):
Down from Mark to Robert Duffy to everyone I worked
with that people of all colors and genders working on
all levels of the company at that time. You know,
for myself, I became a start off as a stot guy,
ended up as an assistant manager, and up until you know,
with Mark and Robert running it, you know they treat
everyone the same. Everyone got the same clothing allowance. Security
(14:48):
dudes got the same clothing allowance as the store manager. Anyway,
it wasn't perfect. But what I'm saying is I didn't
let how Jaku treated me on some racist shit because
it was straight racist bullshit. I didn't let that deter me.
So that's my thing is just yeah, I can't let
I can't. I can't, I can't. I can't let nothing
deter me. It's obstacles. My aneurysm is an obstacle or
(15:12):
a dude telling me thinking I'm homeless and kicking me
out a cafe the first week I moved back to
New York. It's Crave director of Supreme. That happened. Yeah,
straight up, you know what I mean. And you know,
dude kicked me out. I said, you gotta get out
of here. I told you before not to come in here.
He thought I was homeless. So but again that's his problem.
(15:33):
But I'm also gonna press him. I'm gonna press him.
I'm gonna call and press that place, and then I'm
gonna move on. You know what I mean, and.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Not let it become your problem.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah. Yeah, well it is my problem, but I'm not
gonna let it stop me.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
After the break, Tremaine talks about what it was about
style that made him fall in love with it. For me,
it's funny, like I grew up skating on the West Coast,
like in the nineties, and so for me, fashion was
(16:11):
always wasn't something I deeply cared about in terms of
brands with things. I just knew like, okay, how do
I express myself? And it was like I'm skating. There's
like a few companies Vans or whatever right from out here.
But I would get magazines and I would see things
coming out of New York like Zoo York or Supreme.
It was for someone like me on the West Coast,
(16:33):
it was very intimidating to see the styles and the
trends coming out of New York. Having grown up in
it in hip hop in New York eighties and nineties,
when did you first fall in love with it? And
how was that viewing the evolution of it?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Fall in love with like style, like yeah, clothing, yes, yeah, man,
I mean I always been obsessed with style, and I'm
conveying emotion through the way you dress and conveying texture,
color on proportion. I think it started with my parents,
just like how my parents dressed and what they were into,
(17:10):
and then their style, and then going to school. And
then also I used to spend my summers in Harlem, Georgia,
so every summer I go there, and just like you know,
like my uncle Ray, he was definitely a style icon
in my eyes. My uncle Ray, like his nickname was Sharper,
you know what I mean, Like the way he would
just break off his hat, whether he had on a
(17:32):
dressy style hat or like a truck a hat. He
always he always said, I gotta break your hat off, right.
Style was incredible. And then yeah, just movies. I think
movies is a big part of it. My parents owned
a video store, just us Videos and Elmhurst Queens and yeah,
and East Elmhurst and the Hood. They owned a video
store in the eighties. So just watching films, and you know,
(17:56):
obviously every every film has a stylist, has someone that
does the wardrobe, you know, whether it's taxi driver or
do the right thing, you know what I mean, or
John go Art film you know what I mean, contempt,
So it's like films. It's where you know, a lot
(18:16):
of picked up a lot of style from that and.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Then when you saw it, because like for me, I
would see those same films and see the styles be
very impressed. But you must have had some kind of
eye to not to see it and be able to
incorporate that into your day to day, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, I don't know. It's just always, you know, always
been on it, man, Like I always tell his story
and interviews. But Yo, when I was six years old,
my parents took me to get a cat, and they're like, yo,
you gotta name the cat. And the cat was a
Calico cat. So Calico's got stripes, spots, gold gray, black spots.
(18:56):
Whatever I named the fashion, I named the cat fashion.
I feel like she reminded me of like one of
my mom's dresses or something like that, you know what
I mean. And like so I kind of just always
been into it, man. And then like once I hit
jumped off the porch, you know, we'd be on Colisseum
every day, going to the coliseum, going to Jamaica, app
(19:17):
going in the stores. Then I start hopping on the train,
go downtown, going in the stores. That's how I first
learned the James Jevier Like me and James Jeba have
been in each other's six degrees radius probably since the
year nineteen ninety nine, two thousand, because I discovered the
store he owned called Union, and the Union was a
(19:41):
shop that had all kinds of brands. They sold Stucie.
I think there was the first store to sell Stuscie
in New York. And I used to just hang out there.
It was kind of like a Union rat. I remember
my first thing I bought from the Union was this
black Jesus sweatshirt during by this brand called Sir, which
was a streetwear brand of the time, and it was
ran by this guy named Russ and he did this
(20:02):
thing where he had a you could buy the sweatshirt
or the M sixty five with the black Jesus or
the Jesus, you know what I mean. You could choose
which one you want. And to me, I was like, damn,
this is deeper than just clothing, Like you know what
I mean, I'm like, And then I bought it. I
used to wear it. I remember the reaction I used
to wear when I got that sweatshirt was like crazy,
(20:23):
people stop you, like that's my Savior. People be like laughing,
that's black. Jesus ain't black. Oh watch ill, is you
a light? Cats stopping you in the street, like yo,
let me let me give you the knowledge though they yeah,
is your a white? Cats? In front of the Jamaica's
Jamaica the Jamaica AD train station, they see me with
the black Jesus sweatshirt. They're like, yo, come me to God,
(20:43):
put you on. I'm like, nah, I'm good. You guys
are racist, you know, like you guys are racist. I
don't fuck with y'all, but in respect to Israelites, but
I don't really rock that doctrine. But anyway, you know,
I remember, like I grew up with cats that would
say stuff to me like yo, while you be hanging
out downtown, they don't want to stand there. The gay
people there. It's more expensive there, And I'd be like, well,
(21:07):
I don't got no problem with gay people to y'all
go to the Red Lobster. Y'all go to bbq's. I'm
gonna spend the same amount of money at Lovely Day
and maybe the food's better than or not. I just
want to have this food too. Y'all still do Bbq's
I still do Red to this day. I still do
Red Lobster. So cats saying they scared or they don't
(21:28):
want to go hang out downtown. I knew there was
something down there for me, and yeah, I had to
deal with some bullshit down there, but there's bullshit in
the hood too, we dodging bullets, you know what I mean.
So it's like I'm getting knowledge from the hood and
so much. I learned so much from guys and girls
(21:49):
and people there, you know what I mean, about life,
the human condition and more morals and being a stand
up person and so many things. I've learned loads of
stuff from hanging out downtown too, and hanging out in
the city and being around other walks of life. So
I can't let the powers that be stop me from
(22:10):
being where I want to be. Yeah, So then I
was hanging out there, and then my man Wilkins took
over as a manager, and I met him and I
used to hang it. So I started hanging out there
like every day, and all the cats that worked there
allowed me just to hang out. I was broke, dude,
you know what I mean. And they give me T
shirts on the low and then so to see this
(22:32):
a store that had these brands that were local that
were small runs of T shirts, and they were flipping
ideas and flipping iconography and flipping logos from popular culture
and from things we knew of, you know. So even
just just seeing that communication through T shirts and sweatshirts
and clothing, and I'm looking at the shot a shirt
(22:53):
and Wilkins goes, you like that T shirt? I'm like yeah,
And then he took it and put it in a
bag and gave it to me and he's like, Yo,
that's for you. Just make sure you come back and
kick it with me, you know what I mean? Like that,
like real g shit, Like Yo. It was ill like
Union was it was. It was dope. It was just
like it was start provoking, you know, the T shirts
(23:13):
and the sweatshirts and the stuff, and there it was.
It wasn't just fodder. It was something behind it. And
I was to hang out. And so it's kind of
why I start working in Soho to be near Union.
So I got a job at Kate Spade back in
like two thousand and two, after I was working at a
liquor store in the hood, and then I got a
job at kse Spade and then after Kate Spade got
(23:33):
the Mark Jacobs job. But Union is where I learned it.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Learned it after the break, Tremaine and I get into
what it takes to be a great creative director for
those those of us were uninitiated. What are the skills
it takes to be a creative director of a company,
(23:59):
fashion brand.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Done Dune Dune? To be a creative director is it's
It's not about sitting there and designing every garment or
this senator. It's about being a leader and guiding a
team with a vision and feeling for what each season
is going to be and what's the story. What's the feeling?
(24:24):
Who are the muses, who are the people we're designing for?
What are the references? When the team goes out and
looks for references? What are we looking for? You know,
it's this season? What's the edge? What's the mean? Like,
what's the meaning? What are we trying to say? Were
trying to say something about New York? We trying to
say something about society? What are we speaking about? What
are the things we pull in from? What errors are
(24:45):
we pulling from? You're the coach, You're the director, You're
Martin Scorsese, Mark Scorsese, you don't edit the film. He's
not the cinematographer, you know, like Spike Lee Crookland author
Jafa is the cinematographer. Spike Lee's the director. He's the
crave director of the film. And you put together the
(25:07):
team and work with the team to create the film,
the clothing, the food, the restaurant, the bookstore, whatever it is.
That's what the crave director does.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
You know, you're kind of like the general, like you're
marshaling in every resource available to accomplish something. So like
all the disparate positions and talents, breaking them together and
figuring out the vision, giving them the vision for how
to move forward and what to do and how to
do the best work and all that.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
And you know, also listening career director ain't just telling
your team what to do. Is listening to your team?
Career director has the final say but doesn't mean to say.
Is what you believe. It's you guiding and listening to
your team, listening to what's going on in the world
the customer. But you know, you're nothing without the team,
(26:01):
you know, and the team needs you too. And the
more that people understand that, the more the better you
can work. And that's why I was like, I don't
get you wrapped up in the title.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
But it is an accomplishment. I mean, it's a real
I mean it is an honor in a lot of ways. Still,
even though you say you don't put much on the title,
I just want to make sure it's like you understand,
like it is. It's a real honor to that position.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
It's a great honor, especially to work for a brand
like Supreme specifically and what Supreme stands for and what
James Jeb stands for and what Aaron and the people
that have been there for a long time, and it's
an absolute it's an absolute honor, just like it was an
honor to be do art direction at Stucy beforehand and
(26:46):
all the stuff, all of it's been an honor. Yeah,
every you know, definitely.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
If I'm like a sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty year
old and I wanted to aspire to be like you
become a creative director of like a beloved brand, what
are steps you could take to do that? Like? How
do you work your way to that?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Kind of a.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
And obvious there's some magic involved, there's some luck, involved,
of course, but.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I would say I would say focus on spending a
much time within reason around people you love and share
the same vision as you, and care about the things
you care about, and see where that will lead you. Honestly,
I didn't start hanging out with a side and other
(27:37):
friends and you know, like, yo, me and this guy
going to start a brand one day. He's this cool
dude that I learned a lot from a great person
and hilarious vis cool dude, hilarious and grew to love
these guys Wilkins at Union. You know, I hung out
there because I love these guys and we have fun.
(27:58):
I didn't know I would learn stuff there that would
use the rest of my life. And what I'm trying
to say moral of the story is I love style,
I love art. I stayed my black ass up in
the museum. I stayed in my black ass up in
a bookstore. I stayed my black ass window shopping. I
stayed my black ass on the internet. I stayed my
(28:19):
black ass up in the books. You know, like, I
just hung around things I love and then if you're
really lucky, something will happen. But there's no guarantee. There's
no deserves in this life? Who would write down that
When I finally achieve and become a creative director of Supreme,
six months later I get aneurism and almost die, and
now in the fight of my life trying to get
(28:42):
my legs back and take care of my health. There's
no deserves. So my thing is, I got no regrets
if I would have died, I got no regrets because
I spent as much. I spent a lot of time
with people I love and doing the things I love,
and it led me to great heights, which considered success.
(29:03):
But when I was in the bed and literally at
points my deathbed, fighting for my life, what mattered most
was the people coming to visit me, and my friends
and my girl, and you know who showed up a
sad cactus. You know, Andy changed Yebia, you know, and
(29:27):
he started off as my boss, but now I value
his friendship more than anything. If I never worked another
day with him. So I don't know how to tell
you how to be a crave director. I know how
to tell you how to be a full human being.
And being a complete human being will protect you and
(29:51):
get you where you need to go. It might not
make you creative director, it might not help you survive aneurism,
but if you do become a crave director, you're going
to have friends that keep you down on earth, and
friends I get to give you advice and not actually
care about that title and just care about that you
haven't changed much, or that you've become becoming a better
(30:11):
person and a more compassionate and kind of person. And
so then back to the creative director thing, if you
foster these real friendships with people that are into art,
maybe that will help you grow your skills, get a recommendation,
blah blah blah. But it's got to come from a
(30:31):
real place. For me, there's people that do it different ways,
some people who are the straight climbers, like yo, da
da da. I'm gonna hang out with this person because
it can get me here, and I'm gonna do this.
I'm gonna work ten thousand hours. The shit ain't all
about working titles. And you know, yeah, you need health
insurance and you got your dreams, and but what I've
(30:52):
done on my own and with a side is just
as valid what I've done with Supreme. So if I
never got to Supreme job, I'm still me. I'm still
tremain and I'm still have the same ideas did them.
Tears still exist, No vacancy in still exist. I'm not
more because of supreme that I think that mentality for
(31:13):
me is which we'll get you there? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Do you feel like you're the rarety? Do you feel
like you're the exception to the rule on this case,
like it feels like in your industry? Would you say
that that's a rare, a rare way to move in
your industry?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
MM, I don't know. You'd have to do a control
and you talk to all them. You have to ground
up all the creative directors and ask them. I don't know, man,
I can only speak for me. I don't want to
speak for anyone else, you know, artist. Yeah, I just
(31:51):
hung around the stuff I love and start making things
and did my best at it and support the community
that supported me. And then this stuff happened. But I
didn't plan it out. I was just trying to impress
a side, you know what I mean, trying to impress Virgil,
you know what I mean, like doing things to impress
(32:11):
my friends. That's it. And I just wanted to hear
the music. MC talked my shit on the mic, let
people know a side is the best DJ. We'd start
doing that. We used to split one hundred bucks our
first gig, we split a hundred bucks. We used to
split one hundred bucks every Friday night, midnight in the narrows.
You know. We split one hundred pighs. Yeah. Yeah, I
(32:34):
was the host and A Side was DJing. And then
we started getting little, bigger gigs, you know, two hundred bucks,
five hundred bucks. Then we start traveling the world to
do it and getting big checks to do it. You know.
But I'm not saying we hippies or like straight like
we don't care about money. But what it came from love.
A side studies, a master studies the music thing. You know.
(32:57):
He owned over ten thousand records, you know. And me,
I'd love for just toasting the crowd and creating an
environment and finding a venue that with a good sound
and this that and the third where the party could
work and things happened grow out a night life, you know,
and we loved it and we did it, you know.
That's how we kind of linked up. That's how I
linked up with v over some night some night life shit,
(33:19):
you know, and that led to other things That's the
thing I saw. I can't give kids the blueprint because
my life is I grew up. When I grew up,
I moved to London. I couldn't predict Robert Duffy was
gonna move me to London. So how can I tell
a kid how to become a craveve director?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Right, Jacobs? You didn't know that was going to take
you from New York to London?
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah, even like you know how I met and worked
with Frank, who has become a great friend, is like.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
How did you meet Frank Ocean?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
How did that through V? Because we first night hung
out with V and me a sign V, hanging out
at the spot that I was I was working for
Serge Becker. I was a social director for Labodega Nigra.
So I'm in there hosting, putting stuff together, a size,
DJing up and there. And then one night my man
Kyle Demers, who works as Supreme, he's in town and
(34:11):
he's like, Yo, I'm with V. Have you guys ever met?
I'm like, not really met. Once He's like, you want
to come have a drink with us? We go down there,
we have a drink, playing music, listening to music, and
then V was like, Yo, can my friend come by?
I was like sure, and this is the genius of V.
Like he was so demure and then not dropping no
(34:34):
names or nothing. So to open the door, and it's Frank.
And I remember you had this dope, dope jacket. It
was sublimated trumpel oil, so it was like a bubble coat,
but it looked like a leather coat and a jean jacket.
So that's the first thing. I'm like, Yo, it's jacket's fire.
I'm like, oh, it's not Frank. And then we met
and then we just became cool, you know, like but
(34:55):
very casual. There was no you know, exchange of email,
a couple of emails here and there, what's up. And
then over years we got cool and then we started
working together and you know, I did did what I
did with him, and it's just like I can't tell
a kid how to do that. It came from friendship,
me and Kyle being friends and then Kyle being like,
(35:18):
let's have a drink, everyone being calm and chill, and
then that's it. And then if something you can do
workwise comes out of that cool, but that's not the intention.
And intention is to hang out.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
What did come out of your relationship with Frank?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
In terms of work, I was a six foot two
fly on the wall whilst he created Blonde and Boys
Don't Crime Magazine. I'm listed as a contributor on Boys
Don't Crime Magazine. You could call creative with consultant, I
say creative assistant and we just talk and sometimes ideas
(35:52):
would come out of that. Again, he had a team,
a small team of people he worked with. He's the
leader Crave director, his own Crave director, his own visionary.
You know, he's Frank, writer, producer, singer and artists, photographer.
He does a lot jewelry. You know, he designs jewelry
(36:13):
now as Julie Brand Homer. And yeah, I was like
a fly on a wall that would get asked questions
sometimes and I would offer my opinion or sometimes suggests
maybe suggest something or connected connected dot. So you know,
how do you become a Crave director? How do you
make it at Carnegie Hall? Right? Well, it's the joke.
(36:33):
How do you make it to car How do you
get in the cab? Which way? How do you get
to Carnegie Hall? Hard work? You know what I mean,
like hardworking luck, But maybe you want to be a
crave director and you end up somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah, man, Well, thank you so much for your time
for man. Man, it's just beautiful here when you speak likewise,
was doing great talking to you, man, beautiful conversation. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I'm around all right, man, Thank you, bro be easy,
all right, piece shall.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I really want to thank Tremaine for taking the time
to share his story with us. Obviously a lot of
people are taking times out of the busy schedule, time
away from work to appear on the show. But in
Tremayne's case, he's not just taking time away from work.
He's also taking time away from his own physical recovery.
Real pleasure talking to this guy. And I can't think
of a group of people who've had a bigger outsized
(37:22):
impact on a single industry than Tremaine and his cohort.
Started from the Bottom is produced by David Jah, edited
by keyshow Williams, engineered by Benlliday, booked by Laura Morgan
with production help from Lea Rose. The show is executive
produced by Jacob Goldstein, who's not all up in the
(37:44):
videos for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Bent Holliday
and David Jaw featuring Anthony Yaggs and Savannah Joe Lack.
Listen to Started from the Bottom. Wherever you get your
podcasts and if you want ad free episodes available one
week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin
dot fm or the Apple Show page for more information.
(38:05):
If you like our show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast that I'm just En Richmond.
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