January 20, 2025 • 46 mins
Negative emotions like fear or anger are part of being human. These feelings tell us something - perhaps prompting us to take action or bring about change. However, they're powerful and disruptive - and if they hang around too long or are too intense, they can take a huge toll on our happiness and wellbeing. We need to shift them... but how?
Psychologist Ethan Kross knows.
He's the author of Shift: Managing Your Emotions So They Don't Manage You and founder of the Emotion and Self Control Lab at the University of Michigan - and shares his top science-backed tips to rein in feelings like sorrow, disappointment or rage.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Negative emotions feelings like fear, anger, sadness, and overwhelm
are just part of being human, but that doesn't make
them any easier to manage. Whether it's the sense of
dread we get before a challenging task or the frustration
(00:36):
of dealing with unmet expectations, our big feelings can drain
our energy, mess up our performance, and make us feel
like crap. The good news is that we don't have
to be at the mercy of our big feelings. Research
shows that with the right strategies, we can not only
manage tough emotions effectively, but also use them to our
advantage no matter what life throws our way. So in
today's episode of the Happiness Labs how To Season, we
(00:58):
will dive into the science of emotion regulation and to
help us, we have one of my favorite experts on
the topic here to teach you how to shift your
emotions is my friend, psychologist Cross.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Great to see you guys. Let me put on some
background here. Yeh again, what do you think I'm just
going to blur it here? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Blur's finderka Ethan founded the Emotion and Self Control Lab
at the University of Michigan and his latest book tackles
the topic of dealing with big feelings head on. It's
called shift managing your emotions so they don't manage you.
We'll get to Ethan's specific tips in a moment, but
I wanted to begin with how Ethan got interested in
emotion regulation in the first place. Ethan credits a lot
(01:35):
of his interest in the topic to his grandmother.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, my grandmother had this remarkable story. So she was
growing up in Poland around the time of World War Two,
and when it hit, she basically lost everything, so her
family was for the most pop slaughtered. She ended up
living in the forest for quite a while, bouncing around
from one ghetto to the next, and she ultimately survived
(02:01):
moved over to the States with nothing, this kind of
classic immigrant story. And I remember as a kid just
being totally fascinated about her experience, as I think so
many of us are when we're little. We want to
just know about where we come from, where the people
we love come from. And so I would ask her repeatedly,
like Bubby, what happened back then, Like how did you feel?
(02:22):
And how did you survive? And she would not engage
with me on those topics. You know, there's this great
quote that she once said, which was like, don't ask
why is a crooked letter, which is actually a really
interesting phrase that makes you think or it didn't mean,
but what does that mean? Well, what she meant was,
(02:43):
you know, asking why is just a source of pain,
So the just don't go there. And it was interesting
that she had mastered that command of English language, because
if you spoke to her, she spoke terrible English. She had, like,
you know, very accented and never quite really learned how
to speak fluently, but she had mastered that little bit.
(03:03):
Of course, I proceeded to not listen to her, and
I ended up devoting my career to doing a exactly
what she told me not to do, which is asking
why about our emotional lives? Why do we have the
emotions we do? And when we find them getting tweaked
in ways that we don't want them to be tweaked,
they get activated too intensely or for too long, what
can we do to rain them in? And so I
(03:24):
do attribute a lot of where I am today to
those early experiences with my grandmother, who, for the record,
aside from not talking to me about the pain of
the war, was an incredibly emotive and warm individual. So
just to put that out there, she was capable of
experiencing emotion, and she did. She just didn't really like
(03:45):
to talk about a teach.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It also seems like she was really not interested in
talking about the negative emotions. What are some of the
negative emotions you expected she experienced, but you didn't hear
it talking.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
About terror, fear, anxiety, you know. I did discover later
on in her life she did recount her experiences for
a project at the United States Holocaust Museum, which is
where I learned a lot lot about her story. And
I also heard about her stories. Once a year she
would allow herself to go back to what happened. There's
(04:18):
like a grassroots organization of survivors from the town and
the towns nearby where she grew up, and they'd get
together and they just talk about what happened. And I
remember learning about an experience where several of her immediate
family members were killed, but her dad and her had
made it. And they're in this small ghetto and her
(04:38):
dad says they're coming to kill us. Hide she hid
somewhere in the apartment, I can't remember where, And then
her dad left and then he just never came back.
So when I think about that, or when I think
about her experience standing on a line, knowing that she
would be taken to be killed, and if it wasn't
for my grandfather essentially convincing the police officer to look
(05:02):
the other way while she ran away, Like, I think
to myself, how would I feel in that situation? And
it's terror, it is anxiety, it is dismayed, this complex
cocktail of negative emotions, and so, you know, I guess
in retrospect it made a lot of sense why she
didn't really want to talk to me about that. So
(05:23):
these are not pleasant states to be in. But you know, Laurie,
the thing is, in my mind, my grandmother was superwoman
for not only being able to survive those experiences, but
for them arguably by many metrics of success, being able
to thrive moving over here, living the dream, working super hard,
(05:45):
eventually buying her own home, restarting her family. And it
was really that story that captivated me from a young age.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And in your book you talk about how we've wanted
to figure out ways to regulate our emotions, especially our
negative emotions, for a long time. And I didn't know
the history of some of the kookier ways that people
went about this. So share some of these kind of
strange like historic ways that we've tried to regulate our emotions.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
So the best way I can convey my experience reading
up on the history of emotions and emotion regulations is
to use the phrase blew my mind. It's just remarkable.
So we have likely been struggling with our ability to
manage our emotions for as long as we have been
roaming the planet. Why do I say that, Well, if
(06:32):
you look at some of the earliest writings ever discovered,
writing on clay tablets, these were writings that talked about
the pain of emotion, of being rejected, the pain of
a broken heart, and how that was managed. The first
surgical technique, the first technique that we believed was developed
for surgical technique was drilling holes in people's heads. And
there are likely many reasons that it was believed to
(06:54):
be used, but one of them, according to medical historians,
is to help people manage extreme emotions dysregulated states. And
like you know, if you think back eight to ten
thousand years ago when that first came on the scene,
you have this instance of people being consumed, assumed with emotion,
and what do we gotta do well, our theory about
what may have been driving that was there some evil
(07:15):
spirits in there, so you gotta purge yourself of those.
And that kind of purging mentality existed for quite some
time exorcisms, leeches, blood letting. But then if we fast
forward to the nineteen forties, there's another giant spike on
the emotion regulation timeline. A Portuguese physician wins the Nobel
(07:37):
Prize for what I would describe as an emotion regulation intervention.
That is right, someone has won the Nobel Prize for
emotion regulation intervention. What was it called the leucotomy or
in modern terms, the frontal lobotomy. So foot back the eyelid,
poke a few holes in your frontal cortex and turn
the volume down on how we are feeling. Nobel Prize.
(07:59):
But you know, one other really fun kind of historical
fact that I forgot to put in there is if
you go to the best selling book of all time
by a wide margin, let's tell everyone what was what
is the best selling book of all time? The Bible? No,
you got it, Bible.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I feel like I'm on Jeopardy.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I was like, I drink it's the Bible. But yeah,
Bible has sold many, many copies. What is one of
the most famous stories from the Bible. It is the
story of Adam and Eve. This is a story about
emotion regulation, or the failure to regulate emotions. So we've
been struggling with this stuff for a really long time.
(08:40):
And I get it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I mean, there have been times when if I knew
it was medically reasonable to drill a hole in my
head and I would stop ruminating or being sad or
kind of especially after like breakups and things like that,
Like I would have gone for it.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You know, either the pain is real and if you
look at the statistics, they're shocking. You know, this laur
better than better than most and and folks who are
listening to the podcast are no doubt familiar with these
statistics too. But the wellness industry, by some estimates, is
a trillion dollar industry. You see increasing amounts of resources
(09:13):
being devoted to helping people with mental health, with well
being written large culturally, I think we are now at
an inflection point where we really recognize the role that
our emotions are playing in our lives and understand the
need to manage them. So here's the really good news.
What fills me with hope is that we have learned
a lot about how we can manage our emotions without
(09:36):
having to take these extreme steps of damaging our brains. Which,
to be clear, I think I could speak for you,
Laurie of saying we do not endorse that on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
We're not endorsing brain holes.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
No, yes, no brain holes. No no holes, Like, let's
just leave the holes out of the equation. Like, we've
got a fantastic array of non invasive tools that we
can use if we know what those tools are and
how they work. This is not to say we know
everything about emotion regulation. We have a lot to learn.
That's exciting, but we have learned quite a bit. And
(10:08):
what also to use my favorite phrase blows my mind
is if you ask most people, hey, where you ever
taught these tools growing up? By far and away, the
majority will say no. If I ask an audience, hey,
when is the first time you learned, like how to
exercise physically, most people will say, you know, probably like
first or second grade. We have gym class. Yeah, jumping jacks,
(10:30):
push ups, you know how to do those? I may
not like to do it, but we know what to do. Okay.
When is the first time you learned how to formally
learned how to manage your emotions? Most people will say never,
and that to me is a travesty, and I think
it's something that we have the opportunity to address by
you know, quite frankly, what you're doing on this podcast,
(10:53):
which is to take science and to share it with
folks in ways that can benefit them.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I still find it amazing that we teach physical education
and even drivers to our young people, but we don't
always give them the tools they need to cope with
their big feelings. It's time for a short break, but
even soon be back to share the first of his
evidence based how to tips for regulating big feelings, the
Happiness Lab. Will be back in a moment. Big emotions
(11:22):
often feel pretty out of control when feelings like fear, overwhelm,
and anger kick in, they often feel like they're here
to stay. But psychologist Ethan Cross, author of Shift Managing
Your Emotions so They Don't manage You, argues that there
are lots of ways to get big feelings under control,
and his first tip for doing so is to find
the right outside sensory stimulus, a hook from a friend,
(11:43):
hearing a kind word, or maybe even sipping a warm drink.
Research shows that using our senses can be a great
way to break out of big feelings. In fact, Ethan
has a particularly good example of his own emotions being
altered by a cheesy song or let me rephrase by
a stone cold rock classic.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So Journey, Don't Stop Believing. I will admit, huge fan,
what's one of my go to feel good pump up songs?
If we go back in time, about five or so years,
I was coaching my daughter's soccer team on the weekends.
She was around five or six. And I love, love,
love coaching kid soccer, not because I'm particularly good at it.
(12:23):
It's also I'm not getting super immersed it. It's just
a fun contrast to everything else I do. And so
I would look forward to these games with her on
the weekend throughout the week and normally she was just
a ball of excitement and ready to go. But there
was this one day that really sticks out in my
memory where she was just really bumming me out. She
was super glum, like it was like I was pulling
(12:46):
her to get into the car to go. She did
not want to be there, and you know, I start driving,
look in the rear view mirror. Her head's kind of
like draped over her shoulder, no smile. And then all
of a sudden, Don't Stop Believing comes on the radio,
and I'm instantly kind of getting a little bit more excited.
And then I start audibly, you know, kind of humming
(13:06):
and singing along and turn the volume up a little bit.
And then I look in the back seat and I
noticed that she's beginning to jam out also, and she's
bopping her head and she's kind of humming along, you know.
Fast forward about seven minutes. We get to the park,
and before I can even park the car, she just
opens the door, bolts out of the car, and scores
(13:28):
what I remember to be seven thousand goals that game
not true, but it was really in many ways that
experience with my daughter and Jerney. A light bulb went off.
From that point on, when I would look at my
dashboard and see the music console, I no longer just
saw an LED dashboard. I now saw an emotion regulation device.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
This is such an important idea because I also use
music without realizing it to regulate my emotions all the time.
But I think this is a spot where I kind
of mess up, right, because unlike you who had this
moment where your daughter is feeling glove and you put
on Don't Stop Believing, which is like the most happy
pump up get out dancing on your soccer match related song. Ever,
(14:11):
when I'm feeling kind of glove, I don't gravitate towards
the journey, or I gravitate towards journey, but different journey
songs that come is.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Sad you know Chicago.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, yeah, Like it's like the whiny you know, love
bites kinds of songs, right, And so what am I
doing wrong there? Because I'm using music to kind of
move my erooss around, but it seems like it's not shifting.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, I wouldn't say you're doing something wrong unless it's
counter to your goals. And let me unpack that for
a second. So, one really important message I hope to
convey in this book is that all of our emotions
are functional when they're experiencing the right proportions, not too
intense or not too long. What do I mean by that?
How could anger or sadness or envy ever be useful? Well,
(14:54):
if you look at what those emotions are doing. They're
often being triggered in particular situations where the way they
are motivating you to think, feel, and behave can actually
be adaptive. So let's take sadness as an example. Because
you brought up the kind of sh hago, a deell
genre of songs. We typically experience sadness when we experience
some loss that we cannot regain, so the loss of
(15:18):
a loved one, we don't get a job, we can't
ever get it. And in that circumstance, when we feel
this emotion, what research shows it motivates us to do it.
It slows us down physiologically, it leads us to turn
our attention inward, to inter respect, to try to make
sense of the situation. There is a need for menimaking.
Often when you experience sadness, well, the world is no
(15:39):
longer the way I expected it to be or have
experienced it. I got to like reconfigure how I make
sense of this world now. So let me take some
time by myself to engage in that reflective process. But
because going off in the corner by myself maybe a
little dangerous, right, we don't want to leave people totally alone.
(15:59):
We have evolved to send warning signs to other folks
to let them know that we're experiencing sadness and might
need a little help, which is often a sad expression.
When you see a sad expression on someone else's face,
you mimic that. My kids, by the way, have mastered this.
I can be like really appropriately upset for some negative
behavior and they do this exaggerated stick out the lower
(16:23):
leb and it is so powerful it gets me every
time in any case I digress. So sadness can be functional.
It could help us think through some problems. So your
intuition to like listen to journey that is a way
of you going deeper into that potentially sad state to
facilitate that introspective meaning making process. Here's the big butt
(16:46):
that I want to convey though, and I think it's
where you originally were going. If you are feeling sad
and you don't want to feel sad, don't listen to
sad music. Then what you want to do is you
want to resist that urge to listen to the music
that is congruous. So we're talking about this emotional congruency effect,
and you want to go in the other direction. So
this is what I do strategically if I've got like
(17:08):
a high stakes presentation coming up and I have some jitters, right,
I'm not going to listen to music that just amplifies
that and say I'm going the journey route, right, I'm
going to other terribly terribly cheesy pump up music. Living
on a Prayer being another great example, with a little
bit of Metallica enter the Sandman mixed in right, Like,
this is a way in which I am strategically harnessing
(17:31):
my senses to push my emotions on a different trajectory.
And the senses should not be underestimated as a tool
that could be strategically used to do that, because we
know that the links between sensation and emotional experience, these
are very strong links that exist in our brains. And
so if you are aware of how your senses could
(17:53):
affect you, this opens up the door to all manner
of tools that you can recruit to help you out.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
And one of the reasons I loved reading your book
is that, of course I've known about the music example,
maybe not for shifting in the right direction, but I
knew that that was a powerful sensory tool. I could
use your book really reminded me. There are lots of
sensory tools you can use. Right. I can use touch
of like a comfy blanket. Right, I could use just
the visuals, like turning the light on more to kind
of wake myself up more. There's just so many different
(18:21):
kinds of sensory experiences you can use to shift your
emotions around. I kind of remembered audition, but I've kind
of forgotten about some of the other ones.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I mean this was my experience too. In fact,
one of my regis sudents, sim Mi Kayla Rodriguez. We
actually wrote a paper after I dug into this literature.
I like, why aren't we talking about our senses more
so that we wrote this paper called Sensory Emotion Regulation,
which we looked at each of the major senses and
all of them have this capacity to relatively effortlessly shift
(18:51):
our emotions. And I think the effort piece is an
important one to put on people's radar. I talk about
a ton of different tools in shift from pushing our
emotions around. Some of them aren't quite effort full. They
take resources for us to implement these tools, and there's
nothing wrong with that. There's a time and place for that.
But what we know about all of us human beings
(19:12):
is that in general, if we don't have to exert effort,
we're not going to do it. We tend to be
a lazy species in that regard because we're trying to
conserve our resources. Our senses push our emotions around really
really fast. And so touch is another great example that
I like to remind folks about. I call this tool
affectionate but not creepy touch because you have to be
(19:35):
careful about how you wield that tool. But you know,
like a fist bump at work, that's a tactile exchange
that activates an emotional response, right, Like, what is the
first tool we use with kids when they're born into
this world to soothe them, to regulate them. It is
skin to skin contact. Those kinds of tactile experiences they
(19:57):
stay with us throughout our lives. The caveat, of course,
is research does show that if a tactile experience is
not wanted, which would be the creepy form of touch,
it not only mitigates positive effects, that actually can elicit
a negative reaction. So to be clear to everyone who's listening,
Laurie and Ethan and I think I can say this
for you, Laurie. We are not advocating haphazardly touching people
(20:22):
at work and in your lives. In the appropriate context, though,
this cannot be.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Powerful, and I think we can just use forms of
self touch that feel really good. Right reading your book,
I was reminded, there's this blanket that just feels really cozy,
and when I'm having a bad day, like I can
just kind of go to it.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I have like slippers that are just really comfortable.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I'm also a huge fan of some of Kristin Neff's
suggestions that, you know, if you need that kind of
self touch but you're not around somebody for whom it
would be effectively appropriate to ask them, you can give
yourself some self touch, a little self hug or a
little self soothing. Because brains are stupid, they don't know
who's giving you that self touch.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well, you know, I I'll share with you, And I
guess everyone who's listening a somewhat embarrassing implementation of this tool.
And I did it unknowingly. I was giving a presentation
the other the other day, and it was after lunch,
so I had an upset stomach and I found myself
like pacing the room and just rubbing my stomach a
(21:19):
little bit, rubbing your tummy, yeah, rubbing my tummy. And
then I had the metama, what are you doing? Stop
doing this? So I stopped doing immediately. So here's other
one fun fun finding in this space. Organizations are leveraging
this tool of sensation as a regulator all the time,
and often completely out of our awareness. So many organizations,
(21:41):
for example, have beautiful artwork on the walls and visual
stimuli designed to push us into a different emotional space
that may not be so surprising, But what was surprising
to me were the ways in which organizations often pump
certain kinds of odors through their ventilation systems to arouse
(22:02):
a certain kind of positive response. And there are companies
that really specialize in constructing the right ode to match
the organization's goals. And so this came full circle to
me because earlier on in life, I remember my children
whenever we go on vacation, we go to a hotel,
and I remember they were going, ah, daddy itself so
(22:23):
nice in here. This is such a nice place. And
that is exactly the goal, and it is a way
that we are being regulated by another organization through this path.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But the idea is that we can do exactly the
same thing ourselves totally. We'd scented candles or just all
the kinds of ways that we can manipulate our sensory
environment to feel better.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
That's right. And you know, the real hope that I
have for this book is it lays out all of
the tools that exist. Some of these tools may be film.
You may have like encountered some of these tools but
not realized it. You may not know about some of
these tools. But the idea is that when we lay
all of this out and explain how this works, now,
(23:04):
we give you the opportunity to start wheeling these tools
strategically to help you match your emotion regulatory goals. My
hope is that that is a boon to people in
terms of improving their lives.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
So let's jump to tool number two, which is how
we can shift our emotion using our attention. A big
one that I know I tend to use a lot
when it comes to shifting my emotions with attention is
through distraction. Am I alone is distraction to kind of
go to strategy for lots of folks.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Distraction is is that's a big eat, and it is
a go to for lots of folks. And what's interesting
is it doesn't always get the props that it deserves.
There's a common belief that when you experience big, significant
emotional events in your life, you should not avoid them,
you should not distract, You should approach them work through them.
(23:59):
This message is often reinforced in popular culture, and it
turns out if you look at the science, it is
not entirely true. So what we have seen is that
really the key to wielding your attention effectively is being
strategic in how you do so, approaching certain kinds of
experiences to work through them when the conditions are right.
(24:20):
But also if you can distract in a healthy way.
What I mean by that is not by substance abuses
or risky behaviors, which some people. Some people do, but
a positive form of distraction can often be really useful
for giving you some space from the experience to then
let you reapproach it with a healthier perspective. My grandmother
(24:43):
is actually really effective at using attention strategically. She would
not dwell on the experience over and over. She didn't
get lost in rumination and chatter about this event. She
would focus on things that were under her control, her kids,
her job. But when the conversation with other people one
time a year, or even if she ran into fellow
(25:04):
survivors lend itself to thinking about this experience, she would
with it so she wouldn't avoid it to the point
where it was a chronic form of avoidance that we
know is really harmful. You know, there are various I
think steps that people can follow to figure out when
they should approach and when they should avoid or go
(25:25):
back and forth between their experiences. Step one is just
I like recognizing there's no one size fits all solution here,
not for wielding your attention, or for that matter, for
using any of the different shifters and emotion regulation tools
I talk about in the book. What we know is
that variability is the rule, not the exception. Different tools
(25:48):
work for different people in different situations. I liken it
to physical exercise. If I take ten people in my
social network and I ask them what they do to
keep physically fit, I'm likely going to get ten different
physical health routines. The data that we and others have
collected suggest that emotion regulation is very, very similar. We
(26:10):
rely on different tools in different situations. Let's say you
encounter an experience that provokes you in some way and
you decide to distract, and so what's your favorite distraction?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Laurier the wordal archive, where I kind of go back
and do old wordal puzzles that I haven't done before.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
That is a really really good distractor because it is pleasant,
but also it is cognitively demanding, so it captures your attention,
which is useful for a distraction. You want a distraction
to capture your attention to prevent it from going back
right away to the situation that's just provoked you. So okay,
So let's say you know you have let's say a
(26:47):
podcast interview doesn't go the way you want.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
That would never happen, ethan, come on, now, it.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Would never happen, So you know, so that happens and
you distract, and then when you're done distracting, turns out
you're done. You're not thinking about that problem that that
interview again. Well, if that's the case and it doesn't
resurface into aware, like fantastic, keep doing what you do,
(27:13):
move on with your life. Your psychological immune system has
done its job behind the scenes. Time has passed, the
intensity of the emotions has decided, and you're off to
the next challenge, the next interview. If, on the other hand,
you take a break, you distract, and then you find
yourself thinking about the experience again when you're done, well,
then that could be a signal to then, okay, let
(27:34):
me re engage with it. And now with the gift
of time, which often moderates the intensity of our emotions. Now,
let me try to work through this experience a little
bit more productively. And maybe I'll even layer another shifter,
another tool on to help me do that. So maybe
I'll try to figure out, well, why did this happen?
Why didn't this interview go very well? I'll think about
(27:55):
it from a distance perspective. All right, Laurie, why do
you think this didn't go so well? So you'll try
to process it from a more objective standpoint, So you're
layering in other tools there.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
And this is a really nice transition to the third
shifter that you mentioned in your book, the fact that
we can get a little bit of perspective when we
need to regulate our emotions. Now, this is something we've
talked about on this show before, but explain again why
perspective can be so important to shifting our emotions.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Well, the reason perspective is so useful is we all
have the capacity to reframe how we think about our circumstances,
but it can often feel really hard to do that
when we are totally immersed in the situation and the
emotions are flooding us. Actually the name of this chapter,
it's named after an anecdote with one of my close friends.
I don't know how I can actually say this, you know.
(28:42):
I was driving back from dinner one day with another
couple and the other couple is talking about a difficult
experience that my friend was having at work, and his
wife said to him, well, why don't you just think
differently about it? And his response was easier bleeping said
than done to convey. I think this very common experience
we have, which we know that we can think differently,
(29:06):
and we should think differently. We should reframe how we're
thinking about this, be more optimistic, but we just have
hard time doing that in the moment. And so what
we've learned is that in those situations, taking a step back,
thinking about our circumstances from a more distanced perspective, almost
like we're giving advice to someone else can be really
helpful for allowing us to do that.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And you've come up with a super easy way we
can do that linguistically, just how we use different pronouns, right.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
That's right, So using your own name and you can
be a useful tool for allowing us to do this.
So we usually use the word you and we give
advice to other people. So when you use the word
you to refer to your own problem, so ethan, why
are you doing this? And what do you think you
should do? What that does is it automatically switches your perspective.
It puts you in this frame of mind where now
you're giving advice to essentially another person. It's another person
(29:53):
who happens to be you, So you have full access
to everything that's happening inside that person's mind. But it's
just easier to do so because you're doing it from
that more objective standpoint. So that's one really simple distancing
tool that you can use. Another powerful way of broadening
our perspect active is to do what I call mental
time travel. So you jump into this mental time travel
(30:14):
machine we all possess. You could go into the future
and think, so, how are you going to feel about
this next week, next month, next year. When you ask
yourself that question, and notice I'm doing that, still maintaining
the linguistic distance, right, how are you going to feel
about this down the road? What that does is it
makes clear to you something you've experienced your entire life,
(30:35):
but we often lose sight of it in the moment,
which is as awful as our emotions are. As time
stretches on, they typically fade. It's a very common trajectory
that characterizes emotional responses. As time goes on, they kind
of peter out. And so how am I going to
feel about this next year? I'm going to feel better
about it. I've lived through that countless times in my life.
(30:56):
So mental time travel machine into the future helps you
with that. You could also go back in time. It's
another way of broadening our perspective. It works a little differently.
And if I'm struggling with a really difficult situation at
work or in my personal life, I could jump into
the mental time travel machine and go to the Polish
Woods in the nineteen forties with my grandmother. Right now,
I'm thinking about the adversity that she experienced back then,
(31:20):
and I'm thinking to myself, Wow, if she was able
to get through this, I can handle what I'm dealing
with now, So that's time to travel to the past.
Those are some other distancing tools.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Self talk and mental time travel are great ways to
put your emotions in perspective. But if big feelings are
still dragging you down, Ethan has a more radical suggestion
forgetting some distance between you and whatever's bothering you. That
radical suggestion is coming up right after the break of
(31:50):
all the tips Ethan cross outlines and his new book Shift,
Managing your Emotions so they don't manage you. The one
that resonates with me most is the strategy of putting
some physical space between you and your problems. What I
didn't realize was that his insights about the power of
physical distance were partly inspired by me.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It's funny you bring that up, Lori, because it was you, Laurie,
who I talked to about this, and so maybe I
could turn the tides here and ask you about this.
So you know, as I was researching the book, I
was struck by the power of spaces to push our
emotions around. I think spaces, like our senses, are often
a tool for manager emotions that we see literally every
(32:32):
day as long as our eyes are open, but we
totally take for granted. And you have a really powerful
story about how changing your spaces powerfully modulated your own
emotional response. So would you mind telling telling folks what
you told me?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah? Yeah, Well it's in the book now, so I
guess everybody's going to read it anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah. I know.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
This was around the time that I was experiencing a
lot of burnout in my role as a head of
college working on y'elle's campus where it was just after
the pandemic. I was feeling incredibly burned out, and I
made the tough decision to leave that role. But when
I left that role and had some time off, I
had to face the question of like, Okay, well where
do I want to be Right, I have a house
(33:11):
in my hometown in Connecticut. I could have moved there,
but my husband and I weren't tied to anything, and
so I said, well, why don't I go to a
different place, a place that's really far away from the
physical place where I was experiencing burnout, but also a
place that had certain memories for me or certain associations,
And so I decided to move back to where I
went to grad school in Massachusetts and Cambridge, Massachusetts, and
(33:35):
I moved from my huge head of college house into
this smaller apartment, and honestly, I think it was the
thing that wound up making me feel much less burned out. Right,
I was just in a completely different place with totally
different sensory experiences than I was in before. It was
a nice way to distract myself from some of the
things that were tricky during my life at Yale and
(33:56):
some of the stresses I was facing. It allowed me
to focus my attention more on running this podcast rather
than worrying about my lab and some of these other things.
And within like weeks, I was feeling completely better. And
I thought that this was just kind of an accident
of my little burnout story. But you wanted to use
the story to explain to deep principles about the importance
(34:16):
of place for shifting your emotions.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Well, I think it's such a powerful story. And you know,
our spaces, the spaces around us often impact multiple shifters
that exist inside us, So, like you were talking about,
they certainly impact our attention, like what we're exposed to,
and by impacting what we're exposed to. They have implications
for our senses. We also form connections to places, and
(34:42):
what really stood out to me about your story when
I think about it, is when you moved back to Cambridge.
Cambridge had these warm associations attached to it. This is
where you were a student and you had these formative experiences.
And what we've learned in the science that I think
doesn't get as much attention as it deserves, is we
routinely form attachments to places in a way that is
(35:04):
similar to the way we form attachment to people to
other people. So we talk a lot about attachment to
other individuals in our lives, attachment figures who when were
in the presence of those figures. This provides us with
a sense of safety and support, parents, caretakers, partners, friends. Well,
we also form attachments to places, and when you're enough
(35:25):
in the presence of a place that you are positively
attached to, that likewise gives you this sense of safety
and security. I'll bring this back to my kids when
it's funny when you learn new material and you filter
it through the lens of your own experiences. I remember
when my kids were upset, they always used to do
this curious thing when they were little and just they
just wanted to go home, and when we got home,
(35:47):
they'd want to go in their room, and that just
provided them with a sense of security. And so it
turns out that's not just true of little kids, it's
true of all of us. And I think the invitation
that extends to us is to do some thinking ahead
of time before the triggers ignite, Like what are the
spaces in our lives that have those restorative properties that
(36:09):
make us feel safe? In supert I have several of
these positive spaces located around ann Arbor that I've like
marked on a map figuratively, and I know where to go.
It's like in the movies, you know where there's a
safe house for the ci agent when they need to
escape people who are getting going after them. Like, I've
got my safe spots. There's the law school quadrangle here,
(36:30):
which is just this magnificently beautiful space. There's the arboretum,
there's my home. Those are places I can go to
and they are managing my emotions without me having to
do anything by just being in that place.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
But you've also talked about ways that we can manage
our spaces in more local ways, right, Like my situation
is a case where I literally move cities. Not everybody
can do that. You're talking about kind of within your town,
specific spaces you can go to. You've talked about how
we can take our local spaces and make them more
emotionally regulatory.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
How do we do that? Yeah, this is I think
a really important point because changing your space is a
luxury we don't always have the ability to engage in.
You can think of that as like a macro way
of moving our emotions around via spaces. But then there's
a more microway you could do this. There's a way
of harnessing your immediate spaces, and there are lots of
(37:22):
things you could do here. There's research that we and
others have done where you put pictures of attachment figures
in your surroundings, so pictures of love ones. Research shows
that when you glance at a picture of a loved
one after thinking about something negative, it speeds the pace
at which you recover from emotional turbulence. Right. So you know,
(37:43):
after I did that research, I went on a picture
frame shopping spree and I put pictures of loved ones
all around my offices, So that's putting something new in
your environment to push you in a direction where you
want to go. Another example of that would be plants.
We know that looking at images of green things, so
plants and trees, flowers. This also has restorative calming effects,
(38:05):
so you can imagine decorating your space in that way.
You can also modify your space so by removing things
that are pushing your emotions in the wrong direction. Lots
of ways you could do this. We're talking right now
and I have my cell phone turned over, so I've
now modified my space to reduce a distractor which would
get in the way of our conversation. I tell a
(38:26):
story in the book True Story. This is true. I've
done this many times. I tend to overorder pizza whenever
we have people over to watch football, and I know
that if I don't give every single size of pizza
away before our friends leave the house, I will come
down to the kitchen at between ten and twelve at
night and I will eat the cold pizza and I
(38:48):
will have such a positive emotional experience while doing so
that will then end the second I finished consuming it,
and then I won't be able to sleep at night.
So the solution, I'm modifying my space to remove that
as a distractor, as a temptation. So you can modify
your spaces and really architect your surroundings to help you
(39:10):
achieve the emotions that you want to achieve.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
And that gets us to the final shifter that we'll
talk about in this episode, which is something that exists
in our space and definitely something that I tried to
do when I physically move spaces, which is I wanted
to surround myself with different people. Our relationships can also
be big shifters. Explain this idea of emotional contagion and
why it could be a powerful tool for changing our
(39:33):
emotions around.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So other people. We are a social species, and our
emotions are powerfully calibrated against other people and how we
think about them and interact with them, and emotional contagion
is a great example of this. There's lots of research
that shows that when we are not sure of how
to respond in a given situation, we reference other people
(39:57):
because other people are a rich source of information. Now
that can push us in good or bad directions, right, So,
you know, one frowning face in a room can quickly
lead to any other frowning faces, smile and joy can
spread as well. I do this exercise often with groups
when I lead workshops to demonstrate the power of emotional contagion,
(40:20):
where I break people up into groups. Then I ask
each member of the group to volunteer a leader, and
so I take the leaders out and then I count
off one two one two one two and as eara Ones,
I'm going to go back into the room with you
in a few minutes. I'm gonna give you a really
hard problem to solve. I want the ones to be
an ultra supportive cheerleading leader. And then I turn to
(40:41):
the twos. They kind of know what's coming. They're kind
of nervously laughing, and as Arai two's you know who
I want you to be. I want you to be
the A holes. I want you to be, stoic, disapproving,
don't give much positive reinforcement. I assure them that I
will debrief everyone the moment the exercise is over, and
then they go back into the rooms. They work on
this problem, and the leaders follow the orders I've given them.
(41:04):
It is remarkable, Lourie, to see how these different groups
respond with than seconds, the groups of the positive leaders
they're brainstorming out loud, they're giggling, they're laughing, they're having fun.
In the other groups like no one is talking, they're
just looking at the piece of paper, right because the
emotion of the leader that has then spread throughout the
(41:24):
rest of the group. We see this, of course playing
out not just in person to person context. It happens
on social media a lot in ways that can have
really consequential effects. So this is often how moral outrage spreads.
There are also instances and once you see positivity spreading
within networks too, So simply being aware of this, I
(41:45):
think can be very important for all of us. Number One,
if you are in a leadership point of view, whether
it be in an organization, in a friend group, and
a family, recognize that the emotional tone that you bring
to a situation directly impacts other people, often without any
(42:05):
explicit direction. If you're a leader, you might also want
to be away of the fact that if you want
this group to be pushing in a particular direction, and
there's one voice or one person there that maybe isn't
abiding by that, you want to be sensitive to that
too and nip that reaction in the blood right away.
But emotional contagion is a really powerful lustration of how
other people can affect us.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
It also really gives us an opportunity. You know, sometimes
we can think about emotional contagion as this terrible thing, like, oh,
I'm just at the mercy of everybody's emotions on my
team or whatever. But I think you also can recognize
that that's an opportunity. You can see the emotions that
you really want to see in the group, like through
your own actions. And in some ways, this is what
you were doing as the leader of your family with
(42:45):
your daughter in the car with Don't Stop Believing, right,
You could have kind of caught her a glom emotion
and felt bad, But you're like, non, if I shift myself,
it's going to shift her too. And I think this
is the real opportunities that we can use ourselves as
these pivot points to not to shift our own emotions,
but emotionally regulate for the people we care about too.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Couldn't agree more. And you know that a really profound
and eloquent way of summarizing saying how a lot of
these shifters come together, because they have implications for not
only the way you manage your own life, but how
you affect those around you, and ideally you're motivated to
affect those around you in a positive direction, but you
can also muster or out even further. Because our understanding
(43:28):
of how these principles of emotion regulation work, they also
have the opportunity to shape the cultures of the groups
that we belong to. So, you know, I've belonged to
a bunch of different groups characterized by different cultures, and
I'm constantly trying to be explicit about the values and
beliefs I have about emotion and emotion regulation. These are
(43:48):
states of being that I think are really important, and
I think we need to spend more time investing in
because doing so is going to help people think and
perform more effectively at work. It's going to improve the
quality of relationships and their health. So I'm being really
clear about what my beliefs are for this culture, and
I'm backing that up. I'm not just saying that, I'm
interacting with folks in ways that establish norms that reinforce
(44:11):
my values and beliefs, and I'm even giving people some
tools to try to hone these these abilities to shift.
And so that's the way you go from knowing about something,
to try it and to actually shift a culture around
a topic, which I think is a really important challenge
we all we all have in front of us.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
It's great, we've come a long way from holes in
the head, I think, which is good.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
We thankfully have come a very long way from putting
holes in our head. And I think, you know, look,
there's there's a lot more we have to learn, but
we have a mass, a pretty compelling set of insights
regarding how we manage this wacky, you know thing called
emotions and our emotional life. And I think we'd all
be a whole lot better off informing ourselves of what
(44:58):
we've learned and using it to help us live the
emotional lives we want to live.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I'm so grateful that Ethan and so many other scientists
have given us practical tools for regulating our big field
between work stress and life stress, not to mention politics.
In the state of the planet, I experienced big feelings
like fear, anxiety, and overwhelm a lot.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
These days.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I'm so happy I've gotten Ethan's tips for helping me
find peace. They're much better than having someone drill a
hole in my head. Let's quickly recap first up, prepare
a big emotions playlist. If you're scared or sad, dispel
that mood by hitting play on some feel good music. Personally,
I think some dad rock like Journey is definitely the
way to go. Ethan's second tip divert your attention. There
(45:40):
are plenty of quick ways to distract yourself away from
big emotions. Try going for a run or my favorite
solving the word. Tip three is to take a step
back and view your problems as a stranger might see them.
Are things actually so bleak? What would a coach or
mentor say about what you should do? The fourth way
to regulate your emotions is to get some physical distance
from what's upsetting you. Get out of your home or workplace.
(46:02):
Remember that escaping the environment that's stressing you out can work.
Wonders and Ethan's final strategy to tame big feelings is
to surround yourself with positive people. Just like getting away
from a location that's upsetting you, we can benefit by
taking a break from the friends. Co workers are loved
ones who are spiking our negative emotions. But above all,
a metatip, if you will, is to remember that your
(46:23):
emotions are functional. If you're feeling lonely, or if your
boss is something that upsets you, or if a politician
enacts some policy that gets you read with anger, that's
a signal for you to take action. But once you've
figured out what your big feeling is there to teach you,
that big feeling has done its job, and it's time
for that big feeling to move on. It's also time
for our how to season to move on. Next up,
(46:45):
we'll be looking at something that's super useful in small doses,
but can prove very harmful when it's allowed to rule
our lives. We'll be exploring how to fight stress. That's
next time on the Happiness Lab with me Doctor Laurie
Santos
Pushkin. Negative emotions feelings like fear, anger, sadness, and overwhelm
are just part of being human, but that doesn't make
them any easier to manage. Whether it's the sense of
dread we get before a challenging task or the frustration
(00:36):
of dealing with unmet expectations, our big feelings can drain
our energy, mess up our performance, and make us feel
like crap. The good news is that we don't have
to be at the mercy of our big feelings. Research
shows that with the right strategies, we can not only
manage tough emotions effectively, but also use them to our
advantage no matter what life throws our way. So in
today's episode of the Happiness Labs how To Season, we
(00:58):
will dive into the science of emotion regulation and to
help us, we have one of my favorite experts on
the topic here to teach you how to shift your
emotions is my friend, psychologist Cross.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Great to see you guys. Let me put on some
background here. Yeh again, what do you think I'm just
going to blur it here? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Blur's finderka Ethan founded the Emotion and Self Control Lab
at the University of Michigan and his latest book tackles
the topic of dealing with big feelings head on. It's
called shift managing your emotions so they don't manage you.
We'll get to Ethan's specific tips in a moment, but
I wanted to begin with how Ethan got interested in
emotion regulation in the first place. Ethan credits a lot
(01:35):
of his interest in the topic to his grandmother.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, my grandmother had this remarkable story. So she was
growing up in Poland around the time of World War Two,
and when it hit, she basically lost everything, so her
family was for the most pop slaughtered. She ended up
living in the forest for quite a while, bouncing around
from one ghetto to the next, and she ultimately survived
(02:01):
moved over to the States with nothing, this kind of
classic immigrant story. And I remember as a kid just
being totally fascinated about her experience, as I think so
many of us are when we're little. We want to
just know about where we come from, where the people
we love come from. And so I would ask her repeatedly,
like Bubby, what happened back then, Like how did you feel?
(02:22):
And how did you survive? And she would not engage
with me on those topics. You know, there's this great
quote that she once said, which was like, don't ask
why is a crooked letter, which is actually a really
interesting phrase that makes you think or it didn't mean,
but what does that mean? Well, what she meant was,
(02:43):
you know, asking why is just a source of pain,
So the just don't go there. And it was interesting
that she had mastered that command of English language, because
if you spoke to her, she spoke terrible English. She had, like,
you know, very accented and never quite really learned how
to speak fluently, but she had mastered that little bit.
(03:03):
Of course, I proceeded to not listen to her, and
I ended up devoting my career to doing a exactly
what she told me not to do, which is asking
why about our emotional lives? Why do we have the
emotions we do? And when we find them getting tweaked
in ways that we don't want them to be tweaked,
they get activated too intensely or for too long, what
can we do to rain them in? And so I
(03:24):
do attribute a lot of where I am today to
those early experiences with my grandmother, who, for the record,
aside from not talking to me about the pain of
the war, was an incredibly emotive and warm individual. So
just to put that out there, she was capable of
experiencing emotion, and she did. She just didn't really like
(03:45):
to talk about a teach.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It also seems like she was really not interested in
talking about the negative emotions. What are some of the
negative emotions you expected she experienced, but you didn't hear
it talking.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
About terror, fear, anxiety, you know. I did discover later
on in her life she did recount her experiences for
a project at the United States Holocaust Museum, which is
where I learned a lot lot about her story. And
I also heard about her stories. Once a year she
would allow herself to go back to what happened. There's
(04:18):
like a grassroots organization of survivors from the town and
the towns nearby where she grew up, and they'd get
together and they just talk about what happened. And I
remember learning about an experience where several of her immediate
family members were killed, but her dad and her had
made it. And they're in this small ghetto and her
(04:38):
dad says they're coming to kill us. Hide she hid
somewhere in the apartment, I can't remember where, And then
her dad left and then he just never came back.
So when I think about that, or when I think
about her experience standing on a line, knowing that she
would be taken to be killed, and if it wasn't
for my grandfather essentially convincing the police officer to look
(05:02):
the other way while she ran away, Like, I think
to myself, how would I feel in that situation? And
it's terror, it is anxiety, it is dismayed, this complex
cocktail of negative emotions, and so, you know, I guess
in retrospect it made a lot of sense why she
didn't really want to talk to me about that. So
(05:23):
these are not pleasant states to be in. But you know, Laurie,
the thing is, in my mind, my grandmother was superwoman
for not only being able to survive those experiences, but
for them arguably by many metrics of success, being able
to thrive moving over here, living the dream, working super hard,
(05:45):
eventually buying her own home, restarting her family. And it
was really that story that captivated me from a young age.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And in your book you talk about how we've wanted
to figure out ways to regulate our emotions, especially our
negative emotions, for a long time. And I didn't know
the history of some of the kookier ways that people
went about this. So share some of these kind of
strange like historic ways that we've tried to regulate our emotions.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
So the best way I can convey my experience reading
up on the history of emotions and emotion regulations is
to use the phrase blew my mind. It's just remarkable.
So we have likely been struggling with our ability to
manage our emotions for as long as we have been
roaming the planet. Why do I say that, Well, if
(06:32):
you look at some of the earliest writings ever discovered,
writing on clay tablets, these were writings that talked about
the pain of emotion, of being rejected, the pain of
a broken heart, and how that was managed. The first
surgical technique, the first technique that we believed was developed
for surgical technique was drilling holes in people's heads. And
there are likely many reasons that it was believed to
(06:54):
be used, but one of them, according to medical historians,
is to help people manage extreme emotions dysregulated states. And
like you know, if you think back eight to ten
thousand years ago when that first came on the scene,
you have this instance of people being consumed, assumed with emotion,
and what do we gotta do well, our theory about
what may have been driving that was there some evil
(07:15):
spirits in there, so you gotta purge yourself of those.
And that kind of purging mentality existed for quite some
time exorcisms, leeches, blood letting. But then if we fast
forward to the nineteen forties, there's another giant spike on
the emotion regulation timeline. A Portuguese physician wins the Nobel
(07:37):
Prize for what I would describe as an emotion regulation intervention.
That is right, someone has won the Nobel Prize for
emotion regulation intervention. What was it called the leucotomy or
in modern terms, the frontal lobotomy. So foot back the eyelid,
poke a few holes in your frontal cortex and turn
the volume down on how we are feeling. Nobel Prize.
(07:59):
But you know, one other really fun kind of historical
fact that I forgot to put in there is if
you go to the best selling book of all time
by a wide margin, let's tell everyone what was what
is the best selling book of all time? The Bible? No,
you got it, Bible.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I feel like I'm on Jeopardy.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I was like, I drink it's the Bible. But yeah,
Bible has sold many, many copies. What is one of
the most famous stories from the Bible. It is the
story of Adam and Eve. This is a story about
emotion regulation, or the failure to regulate emotions. So we've
been struggling with this stuff for a really long time.
(08:40):
And I get it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I mean, there have been times when if I knew
it was medically reasonable to drill a hole in my
head and I would stop ruminating or being sad or
kind of especially after like breakups and things like that,
Like I would have gone for it.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
You know, either the pain is real and if you
look at the statistics, they're shocking. You know, this laur
better than better than most and and folks who are
listening to the podcast are no doubt familiar with these
statistics too. But the wellness industry, by some estimates, is
a trillion dollar industry. You see increasing amounts of resources
(09:13):
being devoted to helping people with mental health, with well
being written large culturally, I think we are now at
an inflection point where we really recognize the role that
our emotions are playing in our lives and understand the
need to manage them. So here's the really good news.
What fills me with hope is that we have learned
a lot about how we can manage our emotions without
(09:36):
having to take these extreme steps of damaging our brains. Which,
to be clear, I think I could speak for you,
Laurie of saying we do not endorse that on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
We're not endorsing brain holes.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
No, yes, no brain holes. No no holes, Like, let's
just leave the holes out of the equation. Like, we've
got a fantastic array of non invasive tools that we
can use if we know what those tools are and
how they work. This is not to say we know
everything about emotion regulation. We have a lot to learn.
That's exciting, but we have learned quite a bit. And
(10:08):
what also to use my favorite phrase blows my mind
is if you ask most people, hey, where you ever
taught these tools growing up? By far and away, the
majority will say no. If I ask an audience, hey,
when is the first time you learned, like how to
exercise physically, most people will say, you know, probably like
first or second grade. We have gym class. Yeah, jumping jacks,
(10:30):
push ups, you know how to do those? I may
not like to do it, but we know what to do. Okay.
When is the first time you learned how to formally
learned how to manage your emotions? Most people will say never,
and that to me is a travesty, and I think
it's something that we have the opportunity to address by
you know, quite frankly, what you're doing on this podcast,
(10:53):
which is to take science and to share it with
folks in ways that can benefit them.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I still find it amazing that we teach physical education
and even drivers to our young people, but we don't
always give them the tools they need to cope with
their big feelings. It's time for a short break, but
even soon be back to share the first of his
evidence based how to tips for regulating big feelings, the
Happiness Lab. Will be back in a moment. Big emotions
(11:22):
often feel pretty out of control when feelings like fear, overwhelm,
and anger kick in, they often feel like they're here
to stay. But psychologist Ethan Cross, author of Shift Managing
Your Emotions so They Don't manage You, argues that there
are lots of ways to get big feelings under control,
and his first tip for doing so is to find
the right outside sensory stimulus, a hook from a friend,
(11:43):
hearing a kind word, or maybe even sipping a warm drink.
Research shows that using our senses can be a great
way to break out of big feelings. In fact, Ethan
has a particularly good example of his own emotions being
altered by a cheesy song or let me rephrase by
a stone cold rock classic.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So Journey, Don't Stop Believing. I will admit, huge fan,
what's one of my go to feel good pump up songs?
If we go back in time, about five or so years,
I was coaching my daughter's soccer team on the weekends.
She was around five or six. And I love, love,
love coaching kid soccer, not because I'm particularly good at it.
(12:23):
It's also I'm not getting super immersed it. It's just
a fun contrast to everything else I do. And so
I would look forward to these games with her on
the weekend throughout the week and normally she was just
a ball of excitement and ready to go. But there
was this one day that really sticks out in my
memory where she was just really bumming me out. She
was super glum, like it was like I was pulling
(12:46):
her to get into the car to go. She did
not want to be there, and you know, I start driving,
look in the rear view mirror. Her head's kind of
like draped over her shoulder, no smile. And then all
of a sudden, Don't Stop Believing comes on the radio,
and I'm instantly kind of getting a little bit more excited.
And then I start audibly, you know, kind of humming
(13:06):
and singing along and turn the volume up a little bit.
And then I look in the back seat and I
noticed that she's beginning to jam out also, and she's
bopping her head and she's kind of humming along, you know.
Fast forward about seven minutes. We get to the park,
and before I can even park the car, she just
opens the door, bolts out of the car, and scores
(13:28):
what I remember to be seven thousand goals that game
not true, but it was really in many ways that
experience with my daughter and Jerney. A light bulb went off.
From that point on, when I would look at my
dashboard and see the music console, I no longer just
saw an LED dashboard. I now saw an emotion regulation device.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
This is such an important idea because I also use
music without realizing it to regulate my emotions all the time.
But I think this is a spot where I kind
of mess up, right, because unlike you who had this
moment where your daughter is feeling glove and you put
on Don't Stop Believing, which is like the most happy
pump up get out dancing on your soccer match related song. Ever,
(14:11):
when I'm feeling kind of glove, I don't gravitate towards
the journey, or I gravitate towards journey, but different journey
songs that come is.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Sad you know Chicago.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, yeah, Like it's like the whiny you know, love
bites kinds of songs, right, And so what am I
doing wrong there? Because I'm using music to kind of
move my erooss around, but it seems like it's not shifting.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, I wouldn't say you're doing something wrong unless it's
counter to your goals. And let me unpack that for
a second. So, one really important message I hope to
convey in this book is that all of our emotions
are functional when they're experiencing the right proportions, not too
intense or not too long. What do I mean by that?
How could anger or sadness or envy ever be useful? Well,
(14:54):
if you look at what those emotions are doing. They're
often being triggered in particular situations where the way they
are motivating you to think, feel, and behave can actually
be adaptive. So let's take sadness as an example. Because
you brought up the kind of sh hago, a deell
genre of songs. We typically experience sadness when we experience
some loss that we cannot regain, so the loss of
(15:18):
a loved one, we don't get a job, we can't
ever get it. And in that circumstance, when we feel
this emotion, what research shows it motivates us to do it.
It slows us down physiologically, it leads us to turn
our attention inward, to inter respect, to try to make
sense of the situation. There is a need for menimaking.
Often when you experience sadness, well, the world is no
(15:39):
longer the way I expected it to be or have
experienced it. I got to like reconfigure how I make
sense of this world now. So let me take some
time by myself to engage in that reflective process. But
because going off in the corner by myself maybe a
little dangerous, right, we don't want to leave people totally alone.
(15:59):
We have evolved to send warning signs to other folks
to let them know that we're experiencing sadness and might
need a little help, which is often a sad expression.
When you see a sad expression on someone else's face,
you mimic that. My kids, by the way, have mastered this.
I can be like really appropriately upset for some negative
behavior and they do this exaggerated stick out the lower
(16:23):
leb and it is so powerful it gets me every
time in any case I digress. So sadness can be functional.
It could help us think through some problems. So your
intuition to like listen to journey that is a way
of you going deeper into that potentially sad state to
facilitate that introspective meaning making process. Here's the big butt
(16:46):
that I want to convey though, and I think it's
where you originally were going. If you are feeling sad
and you don't want to feel sad, don't listen to
sad music. Then what you want to do is you
want to resist that urge to listen to the music
that is congruous. So we're talking about this emotional congruency effect,
and you want to go in the other direction. So
this is what I do strategically if I've got like
(17:08):
a high stakes presentation coming up and I have some jitters, right,
I'm not going to listen to music that just amplifies
that and say I'm going the journey route, right, I'm
going to other terribly terribly cheesy pump up music. Living
on a Prayer being another great example, with a little
bit of Metallica enter the Sandman mixed in right, Like,
this is a way in which I am strategically harnessing
(17:31):
my senses to push my emotions on a different trajectory.
And the senses should not be underestimated as a tool
that could be strategically used to do that, because we
know that the links between sensation and emotional experience, these
are very strong links that exist in our brains. And
so if you are aware of how your senses could
(17:53):
affect you, this opens up the door to all manner
of tools that you can recruit to help you out.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
And one of the reasons I loved reading your book
is that, of course I've known about the music example,
maybe not for shifting in the right direction, but I
knew that that was a powerful sensory tool. I could
use your book really reminded me. There are lots of
sensory tools you can use. Right. I can use touch
of like a comfy blanket. Right, I could use just
the visuals, like turning the light on more to kind
of wake myself up more. There's just so many different
(18:21):
kinds of sensory experiences you can use to shift your
emotions around. I kind of remembered audition, but I've kind
of forgotten about some of the other ones.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I mean this was my experience too. In fact,
one of my regis sudents, sim Mi Kayla Rodriguez. We
actually wrote a paper after I dug into this literature.
I like, why aren't we talking about our senses more
so that we wrote this paper called Sensory Emotion Regulation,
which we looked at each of the major senses and
all of them have this capacity to relatively effortlessly shift
(18:51):
our emotions. And I think the effort piece is an
important one to put on people's radar. I talk about
a ton of different tools in shift from pushing our
emotions around. Some of them aren't quite effort full. They
take resources for us to implement these tools, and there's
nothing wrong with that. There's a time and place for that.
But what we know about all of us human beings
(19:12):
is that in general, if we don't have to exert effort,
we're not going to do it. We tend to be
a lazy species in that regard because we're trying to
conserve our resources. Our senses push our emotions around really
really fast. And so touch is another great example that
I like to remind folks about. I call this tool
affectionate but not creepy touch because you have to be
(19:35):
careful about how you wield that tool. But you know,
like a fist bump at work, that's a tactile exchange
that activates an emotional response, right, Like, what is the
first tool we use with kids when they're born into
this world to soothe them, to regulate them. It is
skin to skin contact. Those kinds of tactile experiences they
(19:57):
stay with us throughout our lives. The caveat, of course,
is research does show that if a tactile experience is
not wanted, which would be the creepy form of touch,
it not only mitigates positive effects, that actually can elicit
a negative reaction. So to be clear to everyone who's listening,
Laurie and Ethan and I think I can say this
for you, Laurie. We are not advocating haphazardly touching people
(20:22):
at work and in your lives. In the appropriate context, though,
this cannot be.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Powerful, and I think we can just use forms of
self touch that feel really good. Right reading your book,
I was reminded, there's this blanket that just feels really cozy,
and when I'm having a bad day, like I can
just kind of go to it.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I have like slippers that are just really comfortable.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I'm also a huge fan of some of Kristin Neff's
suggestions that, you know, if you need that kind of
self touch but you're not around somebody for whom it
would be effectively appropriate to ask them, you can give
yourself some self touch, a little self hug or a
little self soothing. Because brains are stupid, they don't know
who's giving you that self touch.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well, you know, I I'll share with you, And I
guess everyone who's listening a somewhat embarrassing implementation of this tool.
And I did it unknowingly. I was giving a presentation
the other the other day, and it was after lunch,
so I had an upset stomach and I found myself
like pacing the room and just rubbing my stomach a
(21:19):
little bit, rubbing your tummy, yeah, rubbing my tummy. And
then I had the metama, what are you doing? Stop
doing this? So I stopped doing immediately. So here's other
one fun fun finding in this space. Organizations are leveraging
this tool of sensation as a regulator all the time,
and often completely out of our awareness. So many organizations,
(21:41):
for example, have beautiful artwork on the walls and visual
stimuli designed to push us into a different emotional space
that may not be so surprising, But what was surprising
to me were the ways in which organizations often pump
certain kinds of odors through their ventilation systems to arouse
(22:02):
a certain kind of positive response. And there are companies
that really specialize in constructing the right ode to match
the organization's goals. And so this came full circle to
me because earlier on in life, I remember my children
whenever we go on vacation, we go to a hotel,
and I remember they were going, ah, daddy itself so
(22:23):
nice in here. This is such a nice place. And
that is exactly the goal, and it is a way
that we are being regulated by another organization through this path.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But the idea is that we can do exactly the
same thing ourselves totally. We'd scented candles or just all
the kinds of ways that we can manipulate our sensory
environment to feel better.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
That's right. And you know, the real hope that I
have for this book is it lays out all of
the tools that exist. Some of these tools may be film.
You may have like encountered some of these tools but
not realized it. You may not know about some of
these tools. But the idea is that when we lay
all of this out and explain how this works, now,
(23:04):
we give you the opportunity to start wheeling these tools
strategically to help you match your emotion regulatory goals. My
hope is that that is a boon to people in
terms of improving their lives.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
So let's jump to tool number two, which is how
we can shift our emotion using our attention. A big
one that I know I tend to use a lot
when it comes to shifting my emotions with attention is
through distraction. Am I alone is distraction to kind of
go to strategy for lots of folks.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Distraction is is that's a big eat, and it is
a go to for lots of folks. And what's interesting
is it doesn't always get the props that it deserves.
There's a common belief that when you experience big, significant
emotional events in your life, you should not avoid them,
you should not distract, You should approach them work through them.
(23:59):
This message is often reinforced in popular culture, and it
turns out if you look at the science, it is
not entirely true. So what we have seen is that
really the key to wielding your attention effectively is being
strategic in how you do so, approaching certain kinds of
experiences to work through them when the conditions are right.
(24:20):
But also if you can distract in a healthy way.
What I mean by that is not by substance abuses
or risky behaviors, which some people. Some people do, but
a positive form of distraction can often be really useful
for giving you some space from the experience to then
let you reapproach it with a healthier perspective. My grandmother
(24:43):
is actually really effective at using attention strategically. She would
not dwell on the experience over and over. She didn't
get lost in rumination and chatter about this event. She
would focus on things that were under her control, her kids,
her job. But when the conversation with other people one
time a year, or even if she ran into fellow
(25:04):
survivors lend itself to thinking about this experience, she would
with it so she wouldn't avoid it to the point
where it was a chronic form of avoidance that we
know is really harmful. You know, there are various I
think steps that people can follow to figure out when
they should approach and when they should avoid or go
(25:25):
back and forth between their experiences. Step one is just
I like recognizing there's no one size fits all solution here,
not for wielding your attention, or for that matter, for
using any of the different shifters and emotion regulation tools
I talk about in the book. What we know is
that variability is the rule, not the exception. Different tools
(25:48):
work for different people in different situations. I liken it
to physical exercise. If I take ten people in my
social network and I ask them what they do to
keep physically fit, I'm likely going to get ten different
physical health routines. The data that we and others have
collected suggest that emotion regulation is very, very similar. We
(26:10):
rely on different tools in different situations. Let's say you
encounter an experience that provokes you in some way and
you decide to distract, and so what's your favorite distraction?
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Laurier the wordal archive, where I kind of go back
and do old wordal puzzles that I haven't done before.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
That is a really really good distractor because it is pleasant,
but also it is cognitively demanding, so it captures your attention,
which is useful for a distraction. You want a distraction
to capture your attention to prevent it from going back
right away to the situation that's just provoked you. So okay,
So let's say you know you have let's say a
(26:47):
podcast interview doesn't go the way you want.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
That would never happen, ethan, come on, now, it.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Would never happen, So you know, so that happens and
you distract, and then when you're done distracting, turns out
you're done. You're not thinking about that problem that that
interview again. Well, if that's the case and it doesn't
resurface into aware, like fantastic, keep doing what you do,
(27:13):
move on with your life. Your psychological immune system has
done its job behind the scenes. Time has passed, the
intensity of the emotions has decided, and you're off to
the next challenge, the next interview. If, on the other hand,
you take a break, you distract, and then you find
yourself thinking about the experience again when you're done, well,
then that could be a signal to then, okay, let
(27:34):
me re engage with it. And now with the gift
of time, which often moderates the intensity of our emotions. Now,
let me try to work through this experience a little
bit more productively. And maybe I'll even layer another shifter,
another tool on to help me do that. So maybe
I'll try to figure out, well, why did this happen?
Why didn't this interview go very well? I'll think about
(27:55):
it from a distance perspective. All right, Laurie, why do
you think this didn't go so well? So you'll try
to process it from a more objective standpoint, So you're
layering in other tools there.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
And this is a really nice transition to the third
shifter that you mentioned in your book, the fact that
we can get a little bit of perspective when we
need to regulate our emotions. Now, this is something we've
talked about on this show before, but explain again why
perspective can be so important to shifting our emotions.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Well, the reason perspective is so useful is we all
have the capacity to reframe how we think about our circumstances,
but it can often feel really hard to do that
when we are totally immersed in the situation and the
emotions are flooding us. Actually the name of this chapter,
it's named after an anecdote with one of my close friends.
I don't know how I can actually say this, you know.
(28:42):
I was driving back from dinner one day with another
couple and the other couple is talking about a difficult
experience that my friend was having at work, and his
wife said to him, well, why don't you just think
differently about it? And his response was easier bleeping said
than done to convey. I think this very common experience
we have, which we know that we can think differently,
(29:06):
and we should think differently. We should reframe how we're
thinking about this, be more optimistic, but we just have
hard time doing that in the moment. And so what
we've learned is that in those situations, taking a step back,
thinking about our circumstances from a more distanced perspective, almost
like we're giving advice to someone else can be really
helpful for allowing us to do that.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
And you've come up with a super easy way we
can do that linguistically, just how we use different pronouns, right.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
That's right, So using your own name and you can
be a useful tool for allowing us to do this.
So we usually use the word you and we give
advice to other people. So when you use the word
you to refer to your own problem, so ethan, why
are you doing this? And what do you think you
should do? What that does is it automatically switches your perspective.
It puts you in this frame of mind where now
you're giving advice to essentially another person. It's another person
(29:53):
who happens to be you, So you have full access
to everything that's happening inside that person's mind. But it's
just easier to do so because you're doing it from
that more objective standpoint. So that's one really simple distancing
tool that you can use. Another powerful way of broadening
our perspect active is to do what I call mental
time travel. So you jump into this mental time travel
(30:14):
machine we all possess. You could go into the future
and think, so, how are you going to feel about
this next week, next month, next year. When you ask
yourself that question, and notice I'm doing that, still maintaining
the linguistic distance, right, how are you going to feel
about this down the road? What that does is it
makes clear to you something you've experienced your entire life,
(30:35):
but we often lose sight of it in the moment,
which is as awful as our emotions are. As time
stretches on, they typically fade. It's a very common trajectory
that characterizes emotional responses. As time goes on, they kind
of peter out. And so how am I going to
feel about this next year? I'm going to feel better
about it. I've lived through that countless times in my life.
(30:56):
So mental time travel machine into the future helps you
with that. You could also go back in time. It's
another way of broadening our perspective. It works a little differently.
And if I'm struggling with a really difficult situation at
work or in my personal life, I could jump into
the mental time travel machine and go to the Polish
Woods in the nineteen forties with my grandmother. Right now,
I'm thinking about the adversity that she experienced back then,
(31:20):
and I'm thinking to myself, Wow, if she was able
to get through this, I can handle what I'm dealing
with now, So that's time to travel to the past.
Those are some other distancing tools.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Self talk and mental time travel are great ways to
put your emotions in perspective. But if big feelings are
still dragging you down, Ethan has a more radical suggestion
forgetting some distance between you and whatever's bothering you. That
radical suggestion is coming up right after the break of
(31:50):
all the tips Ethan cross outlines and his new book Shift,
Managing your Emotions so they don't manage you. The one
that resonates with me most is the strategy of putting
some physical space between you and your problems. What I
didn't realize was that his insights about the power of
physical distance were partly inspired by me.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
It's funny you bring that up, Lori, because it was you, Laurie,
who I talked to about this, and so maybe I
could turn the tides here and ask you about this.
So you know, as I was researching the book, I
was struck by the power of spaces to push our
emotions around. I think spaces, like our senses, are often
a tool for manager emotions that we see literally every
(32:32):
day as long as our eyes are open, but we
totally take for granted. And you have a really powerful
story about how changing your spaces powerfully modulated your own
emotional response. So would you mind telling telling folks what
you told me?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah? Yeah, Well it's in the book now, so I
guess everybody's going to read it anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah. I know.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
This was around the time that I was experiencing a
lot of burnout in my role as a head of
college working on y'elle's campus where it was just after
the pandemic. I was feeling incredibly burned out, and I
made the tough decision to leave that role. But when
I left that role and had some time off, I
had to face the question of like, Okay, well where
do I want to be Right, I have a house
(33:11):
in my hometown in Connecticut. I could have moved there,
but my husband and I weren't tied to anything, and
so I said, well, why don't I go to a
different place, a place that's really far away from the
physical place where I was experiencing burnout, but also a
place that had certain memories for me or certain associations,
And so I decided to move back to where I
went to grad school in Massachusetts and Cambridge, Massachusetts, and
(33:35):
I moved from my huge head of college house into
this smaller apartment, and honestly, I think it was the
thing that wound up making me feel much less burned out. Right,
I was just in a completely different place with totally
different sensory experiences than I was in before. It was
a nice way to distract myself from some of the
things that were tricky during my life at Yale and
(33:56):
some of the stresses I was facing. It allowed me
to focus my attention more on running this podcast rather
than worrying about my lab and some of these other things.
And within like weeks, I was feeling completely better. And
I thought that this was just kind of an accident
of my little burnout story. But you wanted to use
the story to explain to deep principles about the importance
(34:16):
of place for shifting your emotions.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Well, I think it's such a powerful story. And you know,
our spaces, the spaces around us often impact multiple shifters
that exist inside us, So, like you were talking about,
they certainly impact our attention, like what we're exposed to,
and by impacting what we're exposed to. They have implications
for our senses. We also form connections to places, and
(34:42):
what really stood out to me about your story when
I think about it, is when you moved back to Cambridge.
Cambridge had these warm associations attached to it. This is
where you were a student and you had these formative experiences.
And what we've learned in the science that I think
doesn't get as much attention as it deserves, is we
routinely form attachments to places in a way that is
(35:04):
similar to the way we form attachment to people to
other people. So we talk a lot about attachment to
other individuals in our lives, attachment figures who when were
in the presence of those figures. This provides us with
a sense of safety and support, parents, caretakers, partners, friends. Well,
we also form attachments to places, and when you're enough
(35:25):
in the presence of a place that you are positively
attached to, that likewise gives you this sense of safety
and security. I'll bring this back to my kids when
it's funny when you learn new material and you filter
it through the lens of your own experiences. I remember
when my kids were upset, they always used to do
this curious thing when they were little and just they
just wanted to go home, and when we got home,
(35:47):
they'd want to go in their room, and that just
provided them with a sense of security. And so it
turns out that's not just true of little kids, it's
true of all of us. And I think the invitation
that extends to us is to do some thinking ahead
of time before the triggers ignite, Like what are the
spaces in our lives that have those restorative properties that
(36:09):
make us feel safe? In supert I have several of
these positive spaces located around ann Arbor that I've like
marked on a map figuratively, and I know where to go.
It's like in the movies, you know where there's a
safe house for the ci agent when they need to
escape people who are getting going after them. Like, I've
got my safe spots. There's the law school quadrangle here,
(36:30):
which is just this magnificently beautiful space. There's the arboretum,
there's my home. Those are places I can go to
and they are managing my emotions without me having to
do anything by just being in that place.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
But you've also talked about ways that we can manage
our spaces in more local ways, right, Like my situation
is a case where I literally move cities. Not everybody
can do that. You're talking about kind of within your town,
specific spaces you can go to. You've talked about how
we can take our local spaces and make them more
emotionally regulatory.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
How do we do that? Yeah, this is I think
a really important point because changing your space is a
luxury we don't always have the ability to engage in.
You can think of that as like a macro way
of moving our emotions around via spaces. But then there's
a more microway you could do this. There's a way
of harnessing your immediate spaces, and there are lots of
(37:22):
things you could do here. There's research that we and
others have done where you put pictures of attachment figures
in your surroundings, so pictures of love ones. Research shows
that when you glance at a picture of a loved
one after thinking about something negative, it speeds the pace
at which you recover from emotional turbulence. Right. So you know,
(37:43):
after I did that research, I went on a picture
frame shopping spree and I put pictures of loved ones
all around my offices, So that's putting something new in
your environment to push you in a direction where you
want to go. Another example of that would be plants.
We know that looking at images of green things, so
plants and trees, flowers. This also has restorative calming effects,
(38:05):
so you can imagine decorating your space in that way.
You can also modify your space so by removing things
that are pushing your emotions in the wrong direction. Lots
of ways you could do this. We're talking right now
and I have my cell phone turned over, so I've
now modified my space to reduce a distractor which would
get in the way of our conversation. I tell a
(38:26):
story in the book True Story. This is true. I've
done this many times. I tend to overorder pizza whenever
we have people over to watch football, and I know
that if I don't give every single size of pizza
away before our friends leave the house, I will come
down to the kitchen at between ten and twelve at
night and I will eat the cold pizza and I
(38:48):
will have such a positive emotional experience while doing so
that will then end the second I finished consuming it,
and then I won't be able to sleep at night.
So the solution, I'm modifying my space to remove that
as a distractor, as a temptation. So you can modify
your spaces and really architect your surroundings to help you
(39:10):
achieve the emotions that you want to achieve.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
And that gets us to the final shifter that we'll
talk about in this episode, which is something that exists
in our space and definitely something that I tried to
do when I physically move spaces, which is I wanted
to surround myself with different people. Our relationships can also
be big shifters. Explain this idea of emotional contagion and
why it could be a powerful tool for changing our
(39:33):
emotions around.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So other people. We are a social species, and our
emotions are powerfully calibrated against other people and how we
think about them and interact with them, and emotional contagion
is a great example of this. There's lots of research
that shows that when we are not sure of how
to respond in a given situation, we reference other people
(39:57):
because other people are a rich source of information. Now
that can push us in good or bad directions, right, So,
you know, one frowning face in a room can quickly
lead to any other frowning faces, smile and joy can
spread as well. I do this exercise often with groups
when I lead workshops to demonstrate the power of emotional contagion,
(40:20):
where I break people up into groups. Then I ask
each member of the group to volunteer a leader, and
so I take the leaders out and then I count
off one two one two one two and as eara Ones,
I'm going to go back into the room with you
in a few minutes. I'm gonna give you a really
hard problem to solve. I want the ones to be
an ultra supportive cheerleading leader. And then I turn to
(40:41):
the twos. They kind of know what's coming. They're kind
of nervously laughing, and as Arai two's you know who
I want you to be. I want you to be
the A holes. I want you to be, stoic, disapproving,
don't give much positive reinforcement. I assure them that I
will debrief everyone the moment the exercise is over, and
then they go back into the rooms. They work on
this problem, and the leaders follow the orders I've given them.
(41:04):
It is remarkable, Lourie, to see how these different groups
respond with than seconds, the groups of the positive leaders
they're brainstorming out loud, they're giggling, they're laughing, they're having fun.
In the other groups like no one is talking, they're
just looking at the piece of paper, right because the
emotion of the leader that has then spread throughout the
(41:24):
rest of the group. We see this, of course playing
out not just in person to person context. It happens
on social media a lot in ways that can have
really consequential effects. So this is often how moral outrage spreads.
There are also instances and once you see positivity spreading
within networks too, So simply being aware of this, I
(41:45):
think can be very important for all of us. Number One,
if you are in a leadership point of view, whether
it be in an organization, in a friend group, and
a family, recognize that the emotional tone that you bring
to a situation directly impacts other people, often without any
(42:05):
explicit direction. If you're a leader, you might also want
to be away of the fact that if you want
this group to be pushing in a particular direction, and
there's one voice or one person there that maybe isn't
abiding by that, you want to be sensitive to that
too and nip that reaction in the blood right away.
But emotional contagion is a really powerful lustration of how
other people can affect us.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
It also really gives us an opportunity. You know, sometimes
we can think about emotional contagion as this terrible thing, like, oh,
I'm just at the mercy of everybody's emotions on my
team or whatever. But I think you also can recognize
that that's an opportunity. You can see the emotions that
you really want to see in the group, like through
your own actions. And in some ways, this is what
you were doing as the leader of your family with
(42:45):
your daughter in the car with Don't Stop Believing, right,
You could have kind of caught her a glom emotion
and felt bad, But you're like, non, if I shift myself,
it's going to shift her too. And I think this
is the real opportunities that we can use ourselves as
these pivot points to not to shift our own emotions,
but emotionally regulate for the people we care about too.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Couldn't agree more. And you know that a really profound
and eloquent way of summarizing saying how a lot of
these shifters come together, because they have implications for not
only the way you manage your own life, but how
you affect those around you, and ideally you're motivated to
affect those around you in a positive direction, but you
can also muster or out even further. Because our understanding
(43:28):
of how these principles of emotion regulation work, they also
have the opportunity to shape the cultures of the groups
that we belong to. So, you know, I've belonged to
a bunch of different groups characterized by different cultures, and
I'm constantly trying to be explicit about the values and
beliefs I have about emotion and emotion regulation. These are
(43:48):
states of being that I think are really important, and
I think we need to spend more time investing in
because doing so is going to help people think and
perform more effectively at work. It's going to improve the
quality of relationships and their health. So I'm being really
clear about what my beliefs are for this culture, and
I'm backing that up. I'm not just saying that, I'm
interacting with folks in ways that establish norms that reinforce
(44:11):
my values and beliefs, and I'm even giving people some
tools to try to hone these these abilities to shift.
And so that's the way you go from knowing about something,
to try it and to actually shift a culture around
a topic, which I think is a really important challenge
we all we all have in front of us.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
It's great, we've come a long way from holes in
the head, I think, which is good.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
We thankfully have come a very long way from putting
holes in our head. And I think, you know, look,
there's there's a lot more we have to learn, but
we have a mass, a pretty compelling set of insights
regarding how we manage this wacky, you know thing called
emotions and our emotional life. And I think we'd all
be a whole lot better off informing ourselves of what
(44:58):
we've learned and using it to help us live the
emotional lives we want to live.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I'm so grateful that Ethan and so many other scientists
have given us practical tools for regulating our big field
between work stress and life stress, not to mention politics.
In the state of the planet, I experienced big feelings
like fear, anxiety, and overwhelm a lot.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
These days.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I'm so happy I've gotten Ethan's tips for helping me
find peace. They're much better than having someone drill a
hole in my head. Let's quickly recap first up, prepare
a big emotions playlist. If you're scared or sad, dispel
that mood by hitting play on some feel good music. Personally,
I think some dad rock like Journey is definitely the
way to go. Ethan's second tip divert your attention. There
(45:40):
are plenty of quick ways to distract yourself away from
big emotions. Try going for a run or my favorite
solving the word. Tip three is to take a step
back and view your problems as a stranger might see them.
Are things actually so bleak? What would a coach or
mentor say about what you should do? The fourth way
to regulate your emotions is to get some physical distance
from what's upsetting you. Get out of your home or workplace.
(46:02):
Remember that escaping the environment that's stressing you out can work.
Wonders and Ethan's final strategy to tame big feelings is
to surround yourself with positive people. Just like getting away
from a location that's upsetting you, we can benefit by
taking a break from the friends. Co workers are loved
ones who are spiking our negative emotions. But above all,
a metatip, if you will, is to remember that your
(46:23):
emotions are functional. If you're feeling lonely, or if your
boss is something that upsets you, or if a politician
enacts some policy that gets you read with anger, that's
a signal for you to take action. But once you've
figured out what your big feeling is there to teach you,
that big feeling has done its job, and it's time
for that big feeling to move on. It's also time
for our how to season to move on. Next up,
(46:45):
we'll be looking at something that's super useful in small doses,
but can prove very harmful when it's allowed to rule
our lives. We'll be exploring how to fight stress. That's
next time on the Happiness Lab with me Doctor Laurie
Santos
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