May 1, 2025 • 34 mins
Too many parents feel “exhausted, burned out, and perpetually behind” according to the former US Surgeon General Dr Vivek Murthy. He says more needs to be done to protect parental mental health.
Vivek talks to Dr Laurie about his experience as a dad and the loneliness, guilt and shame parents can feel as they struggle with the challenges of raising children.
This series on parenting coincides with Dr Laurie's new free online class, The Science of Wellbeing for Parents which is available now at Coursera.org. You can sign up at drlauriesantos.com/parents.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. What makes some people happier than others. What allows
some people to radiate joy even in the face of adversity,
while other people can't feel satisfied even in the best
of circumstances. Well, Like most human traits, happiness is a
very complex combination of nature and nurture. At least some
(00:38):
of the variants we see in people's well being is
due to their genes, but a lot of it is
also due to environmental factors, and few environmental factors, especially
early on, are as powerful as a person's parents. From
the way a parent responds to a child's big emotions
to the values they model in daily life, caregivers can
have a lasting impact on a child's happiness, shaping the
(00:59):
way children handle stress, how they form attachments, and the
mindsets they bring to tough problems. If you're a parent yourself,
you're probably very aware of this fact, very worried about it.
It's kind of terrifying to feel like every little choice
you make has the potential to either empower your child
or set them up for a lifetime of expensive therapy.
That kind of pressure has always been there for parents,
(01:21):
but these days things feel even more fraught. In addition
to the usual stresses, moms and dads today need to
figure out how to navigate screen time, how to help
their kids stay safe online, how to protect their family
is from the loneliness and mental health crises currently playing
so many people, and how to help the next generation
face the future that feels more precarious than ever. It's
(01:42):
gotten so bad that government officials have begun taking action.
Last summer, the former US Surgeon General VIVEC. Murthy published
a public health advisory entitled Parents under Pressure. That advisory
called attention to the fact that parental mental health is
on the decline. So much so, the Surgeon General argued
that caregiver stress has become an urgent public health issue,
(02:04):
a problem just as impactful as the opioid crisis or
gun violence. The report advised that something needs to be
done right away to support parent well being, to help
prevent caregivers from feeling, as the advisory put it, exhausted,
burned out, and perpetually behind. Here at the Happiness Lab,
we wanted to answer this important call to action, and
so we've put together an entire season on ways that
(02:27):
parents can protect their mental health while doing the important
work of raising another human while being human. Over the
next few episodes, I'll be speaking with some of the
world's top scientists and parenting experts about strategies modern caregivers
can use to protect their own mental health while taking
care of the next generation. We'll be exploring questions like
how can parents help their kids to become happy, healthy
(02:48):
and productive adults without losing sight of their own well
being along the way, how can adults and kids use
screens and social media and healthier ways, And how can
we all model more effective ways of handling tough emotions.
If you're a parent, this series will give you actionable
tips for navigating the stress of being a caregiver. And
if you're not a parent or caregiver, not to worry,
because you'll se still find lots of happiness strategies that
(03:11):
everyone can use in this series, like how to manage
your time better to feel less overwhelmed, how to achieve
a healthier work life balance will count as true self care,
and how to work through your big feelings without hurting
the people around you. And since I really wanted to
go big on my goal of fixing this parent mental
health crisis, this new season of The Happiness Lab will
also coincide with the release of a new version of
(03:32):
my free online Yale Happiness course. It's called The Science
of well Being for Parents. Think an entire class filled
with actionable strategies that parents can use to feel less stressed,
reduce their burnout, and protect their mental health. And it's
completely free of charge. You can sign up now on
my website doctor Laurisanto's dot com slash parents. That's doctor
(03:53):
Laurie Santo's dot com slash parents. So yeah, we are
going big on helping families this season, and that's why
I was so excited to bring in a very special
guest for our first episode, the guy who first sounded
the alarm on the crisis facing our nation's parents.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Everyone. I'm Vivig Murthy. I'm a dad of two young
kids from Miami, Florida originally, and I served as the
nineteenth and twenty first Surgeon General of the United States.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I began by asking doctor Murphy what led to his
decision to flag parent mental health as part of one
of his official Surgeon General advisories.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
These are not commonly issued. They're typically reserved for when
there are critical health issues that people need to be
aware of. And they lay out a series of actions
that we can take to address that issue. So they're
meant to highlight a problem and offer a solution. And
during my tenure, I've actually issued a number of these advisories.
During my work on the youth mental health crisis, I
came to see that we can't address youth mental health
(04:49):
if we're not also addressing what's happening to the mental
health of parents.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And so you mentioned this a little bit in your
last answer, but I was just curious how you get
interested in parents stress. When did you start seeing this
is a big issue, And how much of it was
a surgeon general, and how much of it was you
reflecting on your own parenting and friend parents and so on.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Before I was a parent, I really did not understand
very much about what parents were going through. I experienced
what a lot of people probably do during their lives,
which is, once their friends get married and have kids,
it almost feels like sometimes are in a different world, right,
And I myself didn't make as much of an effort,
perhaps as I should have, to understand that world, and
so our lives sort of grew a part of it.
(05:27):
It was when I became a parent that I started
to realize, Wow, this is hard, And I knew it
was going to be hard, but I didn't know like
the ways in which it was going to be hard,
Like how profoundly lonely and challenging it could be to parent.
I didn't know that I'd be up till three am
most nights trying to google what kind of like diapers
are good for my kids, or what kind of wipes
are going to be safe for them. You know, all
(05:47):
of these things which occupy our lives as parents. I
just didn't know the extent to which that would take
a toll and well being. But it was actually when
I became Surgeon General and started working on the youth
mental health crisis that's actually where what was happening to
parents became even more clear to me. Because as I
was going to communities to talk to people about what
was happening to their adolescents and to their young adults
(06:08):
in their lives, I started hearing these stories of real
stress and hardship that parents were undergoing. Start to realize,
these parents are they're not getting sleep, dealing with more
and more stressors, the old ones you know that parents
have always had to deal with like worrying about your kids' safety,
but also new ones like how do I manage social
media in my child's life, how do I deal with
(06:29):
the epidemic of gun violence that has become so prevalent
in our country, and how do I prepare my kids
for a future which seems to be changing every hour.
And I also realized as I dug into the science
behind it, Laurie, that mental health of parents really does,
in measurable ways, affect the mental health of their kids.
And I say this not to make parents feel worried that,
(06:49):
oh my gosh, the their struggles are going to hurt
their kids, but more so to say that, not surprisingly
parents and kids, they have a symbiotic relationship with each other.
They have interdependencies, and when we help one, we help
the other. And so I came to see as I
dug into the data, which was really surprising to me
on what's happening to the mental health of parents. You
quickly come to the conclusion that we've got to invest
in caring for parents, not only because they matter, but
(07:12):
because they are part of the solution ultimately addressing the
youth metal health crisis.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And so give me a sense of some of the statistics, like,
when you actually survey parents, what are the kinds of
things you see in terms of the stresses they're going through,
in the sort of magnitude of those stresses.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So the a couple of things that really popped out
to me. The first was that forty eight percent of
parents nearly have say that on most days their stress
is absolutely overwhelming. Wow, like that is not normal. We
shouldn't think of it as normal. And when you compare
it to the general population, it's about a quarter of
the general population, about twenty six percent. That says that
we adults who are not parents. The other thing that
(07:48):
really struck me was that parents struggle with loneliness at
a higher rate than adults who aren't parents. Now, this
is counterintuitive, right, Most people, and I thought this before
I was a parent, would think that, Wow, when you're
a parent, you've got a family around you, you're probably
less lonely than somebody who doesn't. But it turns out
that it can be quite a lonely experience, you know,
(08:08):
especially if you find your self raising kids without family
or close friends around, and you find yourself struggling in
the middle of the night to figure out how to
console a child who's really upset. You know, if you
have a young child, or if you've got an older
child worrying about where they are in the middle of
the night and are something gone wrong with them? How
do you manage that? There are a lot of struggles
that parents contend with on their own, and I think
(08:28):
part of what has made it even more challenging, Laurie,
for parents is we talk a lot about and you
and I have talked about the comparison culture that has
been dramatically accelerated by social media in particular, and how
that's impacting our kids. It turns out that's impacting adults too, right,
and they too are subject to the comparison culture and
are looking at what other parents are posting online. And
(08:50):
it seems like every parent kind of has things figured
out that somehow they figured out how to manage social media,
how to keep their kids safe, how to make sure
their kids eating and sleeping, how to make sure their
kids learning three languages, four sports, and doing six other
extracurriculars including five instruments, you know whatever. It is like
it seems like everyone has got to pull together, but
in reality it's profoundly different. A lot of parents are struggling,
(09:11):
but it doesn't seem like that. So the experience of
being online can often make you feel that you're falling
short and make you feel that somehow you're alone in
your struggles. So these are some of the things that
I was noticing in terms of the statistics, and they
were really born out lari by the stories that I
was hearing from parents on the road, and after our
advisory came out, and after the ed that I wrote
(09:32):
to summarize advisory came out of the New York Times.
I've just been overwhelmed with feedback from parents all across
the spectrum wherever I travel, who say, wow, I felt
so seen. The truth is, I've really been struggling.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So you brought up some of the parent reactions when
you release this report. I'm kind of curious like other
people's reactions. I mean, I saw some news articles they
were almost a little bit flippant about this, of like, oh,
parenting is a public health crisis now, is like, you know,
it's just as bad as smoking and obesity.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, Well, I think that what's happening with parents mental
health now really is a real challenge that has significant
and concerning public health ripples that affect parents, affect kids,
that affect parents in the workplace, and their role in society,
and just keep in mind, like parents are in a
small group right in society, We're talking about millions and
millions and millions of adults in America who are quietly
(10:21):
struggling behind the scenes, trying to make it all work
but having a really hard time. Is some of the
reactions that we got that overwhelmingly, it was a very
positive reaction from not just parents who felt more seen
in her, but from doctors and nurses who have been
seeing these struggles in their clinics and saying, wow, yes,
something really needs to be done about this. There was
a small minority, though, of people who we heard from
(10:42):
who said, why is this my problem? Like, I didn't
choose to have kids. If you chose to have kids,
and you should deal with distresses and consequences of that.
And while I understand where some of those folks may
be coming from, one of the points we wanted to
make in this advisory is that the health and well
being of parents actually matters to all of us because
parents are actually doing an extraordinarily important and invaluable job
(11:06):
or society which is they're raising the next generation. And
this is one of the reasons why we invest in
public schools, for example, because we know raising the next
generation well matters. We all pay into making sure that
schools can educate our kids. Similarly, parents are a critical
piece of that and so their well being actually really
does matter to all of us. And that was one
of the points that we wanted to make in this,
(11:27):
Like whether you're a business leader who's trying to figure
out how do I recruit talented, healthy, mentally strong young
people to come into the workplace, or whether you're somebody
who wants to make sure that the neighborhood is full
of young people who are responsible and thoughtful and healthy
and well. Regardless whether you have kids or not, you
have a vested interest in parents' mental health and well being.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
It's a big burden to shape the next generation of
our planets, neighbors, leaders, and colleagues. And it's pretty frightening
to think that the people doing that right now are
in a mental health crisis themselves. But doctor Murphy thinks
there's reason for hope. He'll share the concrete steps he
thinks we need to take to fix things. When the
happiness lab returns from the break and his advisory parents
(12:14):
under pressure. Former Surgeon General doctor Vveck Murthy writes that
nearly half of our nations mothers and fathers are so
stressed out that they have difficulty functioning. That's really bad.
But doctor Murphy also argues that it's possible to turn
things around. I asked him to break down what we
need to do to help families not only cope but thrive.
His first suggestion is that we need to recognize that
(12:36):
caregivers need care too.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
It's important because if the people who are doing the
caring aren't also cared for, they burn out. And we
have seen that not just with parents. We've seen that
with doctors and nurses in hospitals and clinics across the
country made worse by COVID. But this is a problem
in before COVID. We see that with people who are
caring for elderly relatives at home who are ill, or
for children who are chronically ill. When you've got a
(13:00):
sick loved one and you're caring for them all the time,
that can be very stressful. If we don't end up
caring for the people who are in fact doing the
caring for others. What happened is not only that they
burn out, but the people they're caring for ultimately suffer too.
Just to use a healthcare example for a moment. When
I issued in twenty twenty two a Search and General's
advisory on health work or Burnout, one of the things
(13:22):
I noted was that nearly half of nurses and a
quarter of doctors who were saying that they were so
burned out they were thinking of leaving the clinical profession.
Thank you. Just imagine for a moment if a quarter
of doctors and half of nurses lee, what happens to
emergency care, primary care, our ability to take care of
people when they have health issues at creators right. And
So this is why these issues really affect all of us,
(13:42):
and it's why I think we should look at parenting
again as a sacred responsibility that parents have taken on
and one that we all have to ultimately pull together
to support them in.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I think this is such an important spot to start,
because I think in awareness that parenting is hard is
sometimes hard for parents to admit, you know, As I
thought about kind of the types of topics to share
with parents as part of this podcast, One of the
things that kept coming up over and over again was
this idea that parents feel guilty, Like they feel guilty
for fear like they're lonely or that they're struggling, or
that they don't like parenting. Sometimes they have a hard
(14:13):
time admitting it, and it seems like just this awareness
is really contributing to the guilt factor. Right, you don't
have to feel bad. You can have some compassion for
yourselves for the fact that this is a hard, important job,
and it's okay if you feel like you're struggling.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I'm so glad you mentioned that, Laurie, because the amount
of shame and guilt that I hear from parents all
over the country is really profound, and it really saddens
me because I look at these parents who are just
sacrificing everything in some cases to just make sure they're
there for their kids and dealing with all of the
challenges their kids may be facing. It feel like even
just raising the fact that they're burning out or struggling
(14:48):
means that they've failed as parents. And what has really
happened are really two critical things that we have to
keep in mind. One is that parenting actually has become
harder in a lot of ways. It's not that every
generation doesn't have its own challenges. They do. But what
parents say routinely on surveys is that tech and social
media in particular are the top two reasons why they
feel parenting is so much harder now than it was
(15:10):
a generation ago. My parents when I was growing up
didn't have to deal with how to manage technology in
my life in terms of not just social media but
also cell phones. Right. They didn't have to worry about
me having a portable cable service and internet in my
pocket at all times and staying up late at night
and worry about what I was getting into them put
my safety at risk. So the nature of parenting has
(15:31):
really changed. But the other thing that has changed over time, Laurie,
is if parenting went from what it has been for millennia,
which is a team sport, to an individual endeavor, right,
And that is just not how we have evolved and
been built, you know, as a species over time and
for generations when people were living in extended families or
in communities that they had known for a long time,
(15:52):
when they had a child, people would come to help,
not just relatives and neighbors, and friends. If you had
to run out somewhere, you could ask a neighbor to
just watch your kids, or drop your kids up at
the neighbor's house, or all the kids would just play together,
you know, at somebody's house for an afternoon, and then
parents can go and do their thing. What you find
when you look at the data, which is really interesting,
is compared to just a couple of decades ago, parents
(16:13):
are spending and these are moms and dads are spending
more time at work. That may not surprise you, but
what is surprising is that moms and dads are also
spending more time in childcare. Right, So, if moms and
not just spending more time working and more time caring
for their children, the question is what are they not
doing time that they have to sleep, to recuperate, to
(16:35):
socialize with others, to take time just to care for themselves.
That time has become much more squeezed, and so when
you look at this all together, you realize that parents
are really having to contend with even more than maybe
a generation or two go in terms of challenges, challenges
they never grew up with, and they're having to do
it with less time and with less support, and that
(16:55):
really is a recipe for struggle and burnout.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
And so let's talk about some strategies that parents as
individuals can take to kind of make things better. One
of the things you talk about a lot is sort
of fighting this idea that parenting has gone from a
team sport to an indie visual sport. That parents need
to connect with other parents. What can parents do to
do that? What are some more specific strategies they can
use to reach out and connect?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, so I think the first thing is just to
recognize that if you're struggling as a parent, you are
not alone, and to not necessarily believe what you see
online or on social media that's not representative of reality.
The second is to start conversations with other parents about
what they may be struggling, whether you may be struggling
with I have two small kids, there are six and eight.
They're in first and third grade, and we have discussion
(17:38):
threats and text with the parents in each class. These
are invaluable, right. People talk about all kinds of things.
What are you wearing for Spirit Day with? What are
people doing for the holiday, or if someone's late picking
up their child and say, hey, can anybody just you know,
look out for my kid, Like, these are wonderful things
to use that to join thread for. But what we
need to start talking about more are other struggles like, hey,
is anybody having a hard time like managing the iPad
(18:01):
for your child? And we know that that is true
from any parents. How are people thinking about phones? Is
anyone's kids asking for a phone? And now are you
managing that? These are some of the conversations we need
to start initiating and having. When we do, it's like
opening the floodgates. We start to realize, Wow, everyone is
really struggling with it. They just didn't feel comfortable like
you're sharing that, or thought they were the only ones.
The third thing I would recommend for parents is to
(18:23):
do small things in your own life to actually try
to help and support other parents. Now, this is going
to be counterintuitive because you might think, hey, hold on,
I'm the one who needs helpier. You know, I'm struggling,
Like what do you ask me to help somebody else for?
But here's actually why this is so magical, because when
you do even a small thing to help another parent,
it could be for example, telling them, hey, you know,
I'll just watch your kid on the playground for the
(18:44):
next ten to fifteen minutes, if you need to go
make a call, if you just want to go sit
down somewhere and just take some deep breaths. These small
things help other parents feel like they're seen, help them
feel like they're not alone, and they also can be
incredibly empowering for you as a person doing the helping.
It helps forge a bond between you and other parents
as well that help you feel like you're not alone.
My wife Alice is a master at this. Give you
(19:06):
an example something she just did recently. She send a
message out to the text threat and said, Hey, I
know that the holidays are coming up and people are
probably shopping for gifts. Are there any parents out there
who have businesses that you'd want us to know about,
so maybe we can shop and support your businesses, you know,
like as we're looking for gifts. And all these people
responded like, well, what a great idea. Yeah, yeah, this
is a great way that parents can support other parents,
(19:27):
and it just helped it feel like more of a community.
But we also, for a long time, like hesitated to
have people over to our house because with two kids,
like our house is constantly in chaos. It's like it's
it's a mess, it's never like as tidy your need
as it should be, and it's also small, and we thought, gosh,
well we're not really set up to really entertain that well.
And then at some point Alison I just sat down.
(19:48):
We're looking. If we're feeling this way, other parents are
probably feeling this way, So why don't we just have
people over and just sound it's chaotic, it's messy, we're
not sure what you know we have in terms of food,
but we'll pull something together and just come over. We'll
just hang out, our kids will play together, and I'll
tell you. Once we started doing that, not only was
it tremendous fun, but we realized something really important, which
is that fundamentally, people when they come over, what makes
(20:09):
the biggest difference in their experience is the other people there.
It's not like how fancy your house is, was everything
neat and tidy? And in fact, a lot of parents said, oh, well,
thank you for having us over. Our house is always
in chaos, but you kind of make us feel like
it's okay to have people over too, So maybe we'll
start doing that. So these are some small things as
parents that we could start to do in our day
to day lives. But most of all, I just want
parents to know that again, if you are struggling out there,
(20:31):
do not feel like this is a reflection of your
failure as a parent or somehow you're something to be
ashamed of. You are part of a larger generation of
parents or collectively struggling with a whole bunch of new
challenges of prior generations and have to deal with. And
the more we can talk more openly about what we're
dealing with, the more we can find support and ultimately
get through parenting. Do well by our children and do
(20:54):
well by ourselves.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
So mothers and fathers can work to create their own
proverbial village to combat the loneliness and stress of modern parenting.
But doctor Murphy doesn't think that caregivis should be responsible
for taking care of themselves by themselves. After the break,
we'll talk about the big structural changes that are needed
to protect parent mental health. The Happiness Lab will be
right back. When it comes to improving parental happiness, there's
(21:25):
only so much that moms and dads can do on
their own. Former Surgeon General Doctor Vvick Murphy thinks that
modern society isn't set up all that well for parents
to reduce their own stress.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
It's absolutely the case that making parenting more sustainable has
to be as societal priority and requires societal action. And
so if we want to talk about workplaces, to start with,
having policies and programs that support caregivers in the workplace
is vital. And that can look like flexibility in hours
so that if a parent needs to be there for
a school event, they can do that without feeling guilty
(21:56):
that they are somehow harming the workplace. The other thing
that workplaces can do is ensure that parents have sickly.
One of the most painful decisions parents have to make
sometimes is what to do when they're child is sick
with regard to work in those moments, if you can
help a parent feel like you know what your child
is sick, it's okay if you are with them, it's
(22:17):
okay if you work from home. The other things that
workplaces can do is actually to ensure that when you're
picking an insurance plan for your employees that you're finding
one that actually has strong mental health care coverage as well,
because keep in mind, we are living in the midst
of a youth mental health crisis when many parents have
children who are struggling with anxiety or depression or maybe
even attempted to take their own life. This has tragically
(22:39):
become all too common, and being able to have at
least strong mental health care coverage that's really vital. So
finally I would just keep in mind, and this is
something that doesn't necessarily cost any money, but being able
to bring parents together in a workplace to even talk
about their experiences, not just with other parents, but with
other colleagues in the workplace. Talk about your family life,
you know, like tell people about your kids, help them
(23:00):
understand some of the things you contend with. That can
be immensely helpful. A lot of parents go to work
and feel like they have to completely check their parent
identity at the door, and feel like if they talk
about any of the challenges they have as parents, that'll
be somehow seen as they're weak or unreliable or not
somebody who should be promoted or dependent on in some way.
And the reality is that everybody, whether your parent or not,
(23:21):
has challenges outside of work, right, and the more we
can just be a little bit more human and open
about sharing those non work dimensions of our life. It
doesn't mean we have to divulge our deepest and darkest
secrets to everyone at work. But what it does mean
is that when we can come into work knowing that, yeah,
people know that we have children, or they know we
have small kids, or they know that, hey, maybe this
month is going to be able challenging because my child
(23:43):
is a lot going on that I need to be
there for. That can actually really help a lot to
reduce the stress and anticipatory anxiety that many parents feel.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I think this is so critical because people just spend
so much time at work. A third of your time
is at work, and study after study shows that for
a lot of people, the social connection in the community
to develop at work is their main social connection in community.
So if parents aren't connecting through other parents at work,
that leaves a big hole. So I love the idea
of using the workplace to find kind of connections among
(24:12):
parents and sort of maybe as a manager, even supporting
building that over time to protect parenttal health.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And I'll tell you one thing, Laurie. When I first
began my tenure as surgeon General, I remember I was
looking to hire a new staff and one of the
staff members I was looking to hire. I could tell
her something she wanted to talk to me about, but
like she wasn't quite bringing it up. Finally, I said, well,
what is It feels like something's on your mind, and
she said, well, thinking about maybe having a child, you know,
in the next few years, and I just need to
(24:39):
kind of know, like is that going to be okay here?
And the way she said it kind of broke my heart. Right,
You could tell that she was worried that if she
had a child that somehow she would be looked at
as a less desirable candidate or somebody who wasn't contributing
is enough to the office. I obviously told her, I
was like, we want this to be a place where
everyone feels welcome and you have a child whenever you want.
It's our goal and our priority and our responsibility is
(25:00):
a workplace to support that. But the fact that she
felt that way, you know initially, you know, before we
had a conversation about it, I started to see that
pattern again and again that many people worry. And so
I think as workplaces, if we can be proactive about
signaling to people that we don't look at parenthood as
somehow a handicap in any way, or is something that
is going to make you less desirable in the workplace.
(25:20):
I think that's really important. What I have found in
my experience now over two terms as surge in general,
having many people in the office who have come in
as parents or would become parents. I don't find it
like parents are somehow a dragon anyway in the office.
If anything, I find they add invaluable perspective. They work
incredibly hard. I mean, anyone who's a parent knows that
it forces you to have to figure out how to
manage time in pretty efficient and effective ways. So the
(25:43):
parents in our office bring so much. But I do
think that there is this fear that many of them
have coming in that somehow that's going to be a
strike against them. And as employers, it's our job to
ensure that they know from the outset that we're creating
an environment that's hospitable to everyone, including parents.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
So that's what workplaces can do to sort of protect
parent health. What are things governments can do to reduce
parents stress?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, Governments can recognize that. I think a couple of things.
One is that the financial challenges for parents are quite significant,
and that's why strategies like having a child tax credit,
which has been one of the most powerful strategies in
recent years in lifting kids and families out of poverty.
Making sure that we establish a sort of more long
term child tax credit is really vital. I think also
(26:28):
making sure that people have paid sick leave so they
can be with sick kids. This is a policy governments
can consider as well. And we know that childcare is
just extraordinarily expensive for many parents across the country, and
this is a place where I think policymakers can also
make a difference. It's just important also for government so
to recognize what is driving some of the stresses in
(26:49):
addition to finances. We talked earlier in this conversation about
tech and social media is being really important contributors to
the stress many parents are contending with. Governments actually have
a role in making social media safer, and this is
something I called for, and certain Deal's advisory at Istion
in twenty twenty three on social media and Youth Mental
Health laid out a series of steps that government can
(27:11):
take to put in place safety standards to ensure that
kids are protected from harmful contact and addictive features, to
ensure that we have transparent access as parents and as
scientific community to the data that companies have social media
companies and the impact of their platforms on our kids.
And finally, we've spent a lot of time of the
last couple of years when I was in office, talking
(27:32):
about the loneliness crisis in America and the profound impact
that has on physical and mental health. And that is
affecting kids, but it's also affecting parents, and so government
can make important investments in what we think of as
social infrastructure. These are the policies and programs and physical
structures that actually enable and allow people to come together,
that support existing programs in our communities that help people
(27:56):
build relationships. And we might have taken that for granted
over the years because tho's always existed, But in the
last few decades in particular, we've seen a real decline
in that social infrastructure, where few people are participating in
recreational clas service organizations, faith organizations, and so we are
fewer places to actually come together in person.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
We had my Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy on who talked
a lot about the kinds of things that governments can
do to build these so called third places thinking particularly
about parents and supporting their communities. Do you have any
specific ideas about how governments could intervene, specifically maybe local governments,
of what they could do to build these support systems.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Look, I think in addition to the broader policy actions
we've talked about, I do think that when local communities
have places and spaces where parents can gather at hours
that are actually manageable compatible with a parents' schedule, that
makes it a huge, huge difference. I'll just give you
some examples, like sometimes when there are music concerts that
are taking place, but they're late in the evening or
(28:54):
at night, that makes it challenging for parents to be
able to go. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have nighttime concerts,
but keep in mind, from time to time you also
have some concerts that are like in the late afternoon
on weekends. These make it feasible for parents to actually
take their kids and families and come together. I also
want to just underscore something that parents know, which is
that parks actually are really helpful for parents. They are
(29:16):
place where you can take your kids where they can play,
entertain themselves, get physical activity. It is invaluable to have parks,
but there are many communities where there aren't parks around,
or they've been taken over by housing developments, or they've
sort of fallen into ruin and they're not safer habitable anymore.
These kind of green spaces and places where parents can
come together and play is really invaluable. And so as
(29:38):
local communities and governments think about the festivals, events, places
that they build and develop, keep parents in mind, keep
in mind that they are often desperate for places together,
but that they need to be able to do it,
you know, during daytime hours because that's when their kids
are up. And when parents can come together with other
parents at these kind of places, it can really help
forge really powerful bonds. I'll maybe give you one last idea,
(30:02):
which is actually building on something that we just released
during my last few months as surch in General. But
it was a product called Recipes for Connection. It's actually
not recipes for food dishes. It's recipes for how to
have gatherings around food. And the reason that we did
this is a lot of people were telling us that
they were struggling with loneliness. They wanted to gather people,
but they weren't sure how, and they worried if they
(30:23):
did so that maybe people wouldn't come over, maybe they
didn't know how to cook, they wouldn't have anything to
offer people. They had all of these worries and anxieties
around gathering. So we put together recipes for connection to
help people find ways to gather. There are all kinds
of fun ideas and there. For example, you can have
a childhood favorites pot luck right where everyone can just
bring a dish that they loved when they were a kid.
(30:44):
I just did this actually recently, and we not only
got to eat the food that our mom's made and
dad's made when we were kids, but we got to
tell the story of our parents and we got to
learn about each other in the process. These are the
kind of events that you can imagine not just local government,
but local organizations helping to sponsor in a neighborhood or
helping to organize. But when we come together around food,
(31:05):
around physical activity, around entertainment like music, and in spaces
like green spaces that are hospitable for it, we can
really help foster community and support for parents, and that
can make a big, big difference in their lives.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And so I imagine as sooner in general, where you
put out reports like this, it really is hoping that
we're really going to see these changes. Now, sometime after
you put out the report, are you still feeling hopeful
that we can make these changes and reduce parent stress?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Actually, I'm feeling a lot more hopeful than even when
I put out the advisory because of the response we've
seemed to it. But the bottom line is, if we
can see parenting as a societal priority, if we can
monitor the well being of parents the way we do
the well being of kids with just as much importance,
my hope is that we can make a lot of progress.
(31:52):
Because the truth is, when I was putting together this
advisory on parents, I'll tell you I was shocked by
how little high quality data there is out there on
the mental health and well being of parents. It's almost
like we somehow decided it didn't matter that much and
didn't study them. But the data that is there, it
paints a concerning picture, but one that we can actually
(32:14):
address and ultimately get to solutions.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
If you're a parent listening right now, I know that
things may seem impossibly challenging at times, but keep in
mind that you're not alone. There are lots of caregivers
struggling with many of the same challenges you are, and
the good news is that there are actionable strategies you
can use to feel better. To summarize some of the
quick tips we've heard from doctor Murphy, remember that where
you're doing day in and day out is important and difficult.
(32:39):
Take time to give yourself some self compassion, commit to
recognizing that social media is not real, and find ways
to connect with other parents in as many small ways
as you can. If you're an employer, remember that you
need to protect parents in your workplace, especially now. It's
crucial that management offers flexibility, comprehensive health insurance, and sick leave.
(32:59):
And if you're a community leader, don't forget that accessible
and inclusive public spaces are invaluable to families. That toddler
eating sand like it's a Michelin star delicate. See One
day he might be the person who solves climate change
or cures cancer. Let's make sure his parents have the
support they need today so they can raise the kind
of person who will shape a better tomorrow. Big thanks
(33:21):
to doctor Vivick Murty for sharing his insights on how
we can help parents protect their mental health and this
initial conversation is just the start of all the advice
I'll be sharing on happier parenting. As I mentioned at
the start of the show, I've just launched my new
free online class, The Science of Well Being for Parents,
which is available now on qursera dot org. You can
(33:41):
also sign up on my website doctor Laurie Santos dot
com slash parents. That's doctor Lauri Santos dot com slash parents.
In next week's episode of The Happiness Lab, we'll tackle
some ways that well meaning, deeply loving parents can inadvertently
mess their kids up if they're not careful, and we'll
learn how to do better, not just as a parent yourself,
(34:02):
but also when you parent yourself. We'll explore the topic
of healthier reparenting with two of my favorite champions of
doing hard things to feel happier.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
We are a lesbian couple. We don't need to just
understand each other. We need to overstand each other. So Lori,
this is something that we spin around constantly because we
do have a moment where we kind of wake up
and we go, wait, is this who I really am?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
We'll hear from Glennon Doyle and Abby Wombach of the
hit podcast We Can Do Hard Things next time. Until then,
don't forget to head to doctor Lorisantos dot com slash
parents for more happier parenting advice, and be sure to
return for our next episode of the Happiness Lab with
me Doctor Laurie Santos
Pushkin. What makes some people happier than others. What allows
some people to radiate joy even in the face of adversity,
while other people can't feel satisfied even in the best
of circumstances. Well, Like most human traits, happiness is a
very complex combination of nature and nurture. At least some
(00:38):
of the variants we see in people's well being is
due to their genes, but a lot of it is
also due to environmental factors, and few environmental factors, especially
early on, are as powerful as a person's parents. From
the way a parent responds to a child's big emotions
to the values they model in daily life, caregivers can
have a lasting impact on a child's happiness, shaping the
(00:59):
way children handle stress, how they form attachments, and the
mindsets they bring to tough problems. If you're a parent yourself,
you're probably very aware of this fact, very worried about it.
It's kind of terrifying to feel like every little choice
you make has the potential to either empower your child
or set them up for a lifetime of expensive therapy.
That kind of pressure has always been there for parents,
(01:21):
but these days things feel even more fraught. In addition
to the usual stresses, moms and dads today need to
figure out how to navigate screen time, how to help
their kids stay safe online, how to protect their family
is from the loneliness and mental health crises currently playing
so many people, and how to help the next generation
face the future that feels more precarious than ever. It's
(01:42):
gotten so bad that government officials have begun taking action.
Last summer, the former US Surgeon General VIVEC. Murthy published
a public health advisory entitled Parents under Pressure. That advisory
called attention to the fact that parental mental health is
on the decline. So much so, the Surgeon General argued
that caregiver stress has become an urgent public health issue,
(02:04):
a problem just as impactful as the opioid crisis or
gun violence. The report advised that something needs to be
done right away to support parent well being, to help
prevent caregivers from feeling, as the advisory put it, exhausted,
burned out, and perpetually behind. Here at the Happiness Lab,
we wanted to answer this important call to action, and
so we've put together an entire season on ways that
(02:27):
parents can protect their mental health while doing the important
work of raising another human while being human. Over the
next few episodes, I'll be speaking with some of the
world's top scientists and parenting experts about strategies modern caregivers
can use to protect their own mental health while taking
care of the next generation. We'll be exploring questions like
how can parents help their kids to become happy, healthy
(02:48):
and productive adults without losing sight of their own well
being along the way, how can adults and kids use
screens and social media and healthier ways, And how can
we all model more effective ways of handling tough emotions.
If you're a parent, this series will give you actionable
tips for navigating the stress of being a caregiver. And
if you're not a parent or caregiver, not to worry,
because you'll se still find lots of happiness strategies that
(03:11):
everyone can use in this series, like how to manage
your time better to feel less overwhelmed, how to achieve
a healthier work life balance will count as true self care,
and how to work through your big feelings without hurting
the people around you. And since I really wanted to
go big on my goal of fixing this parent mental
health crisis, this new season of The Happiness Lab will
also coincide with the release of a new version of
(03:32):
my free online Yale Happiness course. It's called The Science
of well Being for Parents. Think an entire class filled
with actionable strategies that parents can use to feel less stressed,
reduce their burnout, and protect their mental health. And it's
completely free of charge. You can sign up now on
my website doctor Laurisanto's dot com slash parents. That's doctor
(03:53):
Laurie Santo's dot com slash parents. So yeah, we are
going big on helping families this season, and that's why
I was so excited to bring in a very special
guest for our first episode, the guy who first sounded
the alarm on the crisis facing our nation's parents.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Everyone. I'm Vivig Murthy. I'm a dad of two young
kids from Miami, Florida originally, and I served as the
nineteenth and twenty first Surgeon General of the United States.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I began by asking doctor Murphy what led to his
decision to flag parent mental health as part of one
of his official Surgeon General advisories.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
These are not commonly issued. They're typically reserved for when
there are critical health issues that people need to be
aware of. And they lay out a series of actions
that we can take to address that issue. So they're
meant to highlight a problem and offer a solution. And
during my tenure, I've actually issued a number of these advisories.
During my work on the youth mental health crisis, I
came to see that we can't address youth mental health
(04:49):
if we're not also addressing what's happening to the mental
health of parents.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And so you mentioned this a little bit in your
last answer, but I was just curious how you get
interested in parents stress. When did you start seeing this
is a big issue, And how much of it was
a surgeon general, and how much of it was you
reflecting on your own parenting and friend parents and so on.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Before I was a parent, I really did not understand
very much about what parents were going through. I experienced
what a lot of people probably do during their lives,
which is, once their friends get married and have kids,
it almost feels like sometimes are in a different world, right,
And I myself didn't make as much of an effort,
perhaps as I should have, to understand that world, and
so our lives sort of grew a part of it.
(05:27):
It was when I became a parent that I started
to realize, Wow, this is hard, And I knew it
was going to be hard, but I didn't know like
the ways in which it was going to be hard,
Like how profoundly lonely and challenging it could be to parent.
I didn't know that I'd be up till three am
most nights trying to google what kind of like diapers
are good for my kids, or what kind of wipes
are going to be safe for them. You know, all
(05:47):
of these things which occupy our lives as parents. I
just didn't know the extent to which that would take
a toll and well being. But it was actually when
I became Surgeon General and started working on the youth
mental health crisis that's actually where what was happening to
parents became even more clear to me. Because as I
was going to communities to talk to people about what
was happening to their adolescents and to their young adults
(06:08):
in their lives, I started hearing these stories of real
stress and hardship that parents were undergoing. Start to realize,
these parents are they're not getting sleep, dealing with more
and more stressors, the old ones you know that parents
have always had to deal with like worrying about your kids' safety,
but also new ones like how do I manage social
media in my child's life, how do I deal with
(06:29):
the epidemic of gun violence that has become so prevalent
in our country, and how do I prepare my kids
for a future which seems to be changing every hour.
And I also realized as I dug into the science
behind it, Laurie, that mental health of parents really does,
in measurable ways, affect the mental health of their kids.
And I say this not to make parents feel worried that,
(06:49):
oh my gosh, the their struggles are going to hurt
their kids, but more so to say that, not surprisingly
parents and kids, they have a symbiotic relationship with each other.
They have interdependencies, and when we help one, we help
the other. And so I came to see as I
dug into the data, which was really surprising to me
on what's happening to the mental health of parents. You
quickly come to the conclusion that we've got to invest
in caring for parents, not only because they matter, but
(07:12):
because they are part of the solution ultimately addressing the
youth metal health crisis.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
And so give me a sense of some of the statistics, like,
when you actually survey parents, what are the kinds of
things you see in terms of the stresses they're going through,
in the sort of magnitude of those stresses.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So the a couple of things that really popped out
to me. The first was that forty eight percent of
parents nearly have say that on most days their stress
is absolutely overwhelming. Wow, like that is not normal. We
shouldn't think of it as normal. And when you compare
it to the general population, it's about a quarter of
the general population, about twenty six percent. That says that
we adults who are not parents. The other thing that
(07:48):
really struck me was that parents struggle with loneliness at
a higher rate than adults who aren't parents. Now, this
is counterintuitive, right, Most people, and I thought this before
I was a parent, would think that, Wow, when you're
a parent, you've got a family around you, you're probably
less lonely than somebody who doesn't. But it turns out
that it can be quite a lonely experience, you know,
(08:08):
especially if you find your self raising kids without family
or close friends around, and you find yourself struggling in
the middle of the night to figure out how to
console a child who's really upset. You know, if you
have a young child, or if you've got an older
child worrying about where they are in the middle of
the night and are something gone wrong with them? How
do you manage that? There are a lot of struggles
that parents contend with on their own, and I think
(08:28):
part of what has made it even more challenging, Laurie,
for parents is we talk a lot about and you
and I have talked about the comparison culture that has
been dramatically accelerated by social media in particular, and how
that's impacting our kids. It turns out that's impacting adults too, right,
and they too are subject to the comparison culture and
are looking at what other parents are posting online. And
(08:50):
it seems like every parent kind of has things figured
out that somehow they figured out how to manage social media,
how to keep their kids safe, how to make sure
their kids eating and sleeping, how to make sure their
kids learning three languages, four sports, and doing six other
extracurriculars including five instruments, you know whatever. It is like
it seems like everyone has got to pull together, but
in reality it's profoundly different. A lot of parents are struggling,
(09:11):
but it doesn't seem like that. So the experience of
being online can often make you feel that you're falling
short and make you feel that somehow you're alone in
your struggles. So these are some of the things that
I was noticing in terms of the statistics, and they
were really born out lari by the stories that I
was hearing from parents on the road, and after our
advisory came out, and after the ed that I wrote
(09:32):
to summarize advisory came out of the New York Times.
I've just been overwhelmed with feedback from parents all across
the spectrum wherever I travel, who say, wow, I felt
so seen. The truth is, I've really been struggling.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
So you brought up some of the parent reactions when
you release this report. I'm kind of curious like other
people's reactions. I mean, I saw some news articles they
were almost a little bit flippant about this, of like, oh,
parenting is a public health crisis now, is like, you know,
it's just as bad as smoking and obesity.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, Well, I think that what's happening with parents mental
health now really is a real challenge that has significant
and concerning public health ripples that affect parents, affect kids,
that affect parents in the workplace, and their role in society,
and just keep in mind, like parents are in a
small group right in society, We're talking about millions and
millions and millions of adults in America who are quietly
(10:21):
struggling behind the scenes, trying to make it all work
but having a really hard time. Is some of the
reactions that we got that overwhelmingly, it was a very
positive reaction from not just parents who felt more seen
in her, but from doctors and nurses who have been
seeing these struggles in their clinics and saying, wow, yes,
something really needs to be done about this. There was
a small minority, though, of people who we heard from
(10:42):
who said, why is this my problem? Like, I didn't
choose to have kids. If you chose to have kids,
and you should deal with distresses and consequences of that.
And while I understand where some of those folks may
be coming from, one of the points we wanted to
make in this advisory is that the health and well
being of parents actually matters to all of us because
parents are actually doing an extraordinarily important and invaluable job
(11:06):
or society which is they're raising the next generation. And
this is one of the reasons why we invest in
public schools, for example, because we know raising the next
generation well matters. We all pay into making sure that
schools can educate our kids. Similarly, parents are a critical
piece of that and so their well being actually really
does matter to all of us. And that was one
of the points that we wanted to make in this,
(11:27):
Like whether you're a business leader who's trying to figure
out how do I recruit talented, healthy, mentally strong young
people to come into the workplace, or whether you're somebody
who wants to make sure that the neighborhood is full
of young people who are responsible and thoughtful and healthy
and well. Regardless whether you have kids or not, you
have a vested interest in parents' mental health and well being.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
It's a big burden to shape the next generation of
our planets, neighbors, leaders, and colleagues. And it's pretty frightening
to think that the people doing that right now are
in a mental health crisis themselves. But doctor Murphy thinks
there's reason for hope. He'll share the concrete steps he
thinks we need to take to fix things. When the
happiness lab returns from the break and his advisory parents
(12:14):
under pressure. Former Surgeon General doctor Vveck Murthy writes that
nearly half of our nations mothers and fathers are so
stressed out that they have difficulty functioning. That's really bad.
But doctor Murphy also argues that it's possible to turn
things around. I asked him to break down what we
need to do to help families not only cope but thrive.
His first suggestion is that we need to recognize that
(12:36):
caregivers need care too.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
It's important because if the people who are doing the
caring aren't also cared for, they burn out. And we
have seen that not just with parents. We've seen that
with doctors and nurses in hospitals and clinics across the
country made worse by COVID. But this is a problem
in before COVID. We see that with people who are
caring for elderly relatives at home who are ill, or
for children who are chronically ill. When you've got a
(13:00):
sick loved one and you're caring for them all the time,
that can be very stressful. If we don't end up
caring for the people who are in fact doing the
caring for others. What happened is not only that they
burn out, but the people they're caring for ultimately suffer too.
Just to use a healthcare example for a moment. When
I issued in twenty twenty two a Search and General's
advisory on health work or Burnout, one of the things
(13:22):
I noted was that nearly half of nurses and a
quarter of doctors who were saying that they were so
burned out they were thinking of leaving the clinical profession.
Thank you. Just imagine for a moment if a quarter
of doctors and half of nurses lee, what happens to
emergency care, primary care, our ability to take care of
people when they have health issues at creators right. And
So this is why these issues really affect all of us,
(13:42):
and it's why I think we should look at parenting
again as a sacred responsibility that parents have taken on
and one that we all have to ultimately pull together
to support them in.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I think this is such an important spot to start,
because I think in awareness that parenting is hard is
sometimes hard for parents to admit, you know, As I
thought about kind of the types of topics to share
with parents as part of this podcast, One of the
things that kept coming up over and over again was
this idea that parents feel guilty, Like they feel guilty
for fear like they're lonely or that they're struggling, or
that they don't like parenting. Sometimes they have a hard
(14:13):
time admitting it, and it seems like just this awareness
is really contributing to the guilt factor. Right, you don't
have to feel bad. You can have some compassion for
yourselves for the fact that this is a hard, important job,
and it's okay if you feel like you're struggling.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I'm so glad you mentioned that, Laurie, because the amount
of shame and guilt that I hear from parents all
over the country is really profound, and it really saddens
me because I look at these parents who are just
sacrificing everything in some cases to just make sure they're
there for their kids and dealing with all of the
challenges their kids may be facing. It feel like even
just raising the fact that they're burning out or struggling
(14:48):
means that they've failed as parents. And what has really
happened are really two critical things that we have to
keep in mind. One is that parenting actually has become
harder in a lot of ways. It's not that every
generation doesn't have its own challenges. They do. But what
parents say routinely on surveys is that tech and social
media in particular are the top two reasons why they
feel parenting is so much harder now than it was
(15:10):
a generation ago. My parents when I was growing up
didn't have to deal with how to manage technology in
my life in terms of not just social media but
also cell phones. Right. They didn't have to worry about
me having a portable cable service and internet in my
pocket at all times and staying up late at night
and worry about what I was getting into them put
my safety at risk. So the nature of parenting has
(15:31):
really changed. But the other thing that has changed over time, Laurie,
is if parenting went from what it has been for millennia,
which is a team sport, to an individual endeavor, right,
And that is just not how we have evolved and
been built, you know, as a species over time and
for generations when people were living in extended families or
in communities that they had known for a long time,
(15:52):
when they had a child, people would come to help,
not just relatives and neighbors, and friends. If you had
to run out somewhere, you could ask a neighbor to
just watch your kids, or drop your kids up at
the neighbor's house, or all the kids would just play together,
you know, at somebody's house for an afternoon, and then
parents can go and do their thing. What you find
when you look at the data, which is really interesting,
is compared to just a couple of decades ago, parents
(16:13):
are spending and these are moms and dads are spending
more time at work. That may not surprise you, but
what is surprising is that moms and dads are also
spending more time in childcare. Right, So, if moms and
not just spending more time working and more time caring
for their children, the question is what are they not
doing time that they have to sleep, to recuperate, to
(16:35):
socialize with others, to take time just to care for themselves.
That time has become much more squeezed, and so when
you look at this all together, you realize that parents
are really having to contend with even more than maybe
a generation or two go in terms of challenges, challenges
they never grew up with, and they're having to do
it with less time and with less support, and that
(16:55):
really is a recipe for struggle and burnout.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
And so let's talk about some strategies that parents as
individuals can take to kind of make things better. One
of the things you talk about a lot is sort
of fighting this idea that parenting has gone from a
team sport to an indie visual sport. That parents need
to connect with other parents. What can parents do to
do that? What are some more specific strategies they can
use to reach out and connect?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, so I think the first thing is just to
recognize that if you're struggling as a parent, you are
not alone, and to not necessarily believe what you see
online or on social media that's not representative of reality.
The second is to start conversations with other parents about
what they may be struggling, whether you may be struggling
with I have two small kids, there are six and eight.
They're in first and third grade, and we have discussion
(17:38):
threats and text with the parents in each class. These
are invaluable, right. People talk about all kinds of things.
What are you wearing for Spirit Day with? What are
people doing for the holiday, or if someone's late picking
up their child and say, hey, can anybody just you know,
look out for my kid, Like, these are wonderful things
to use that to join thread for. But what we
need to start talking about more are other struggles like, hey,
is anybody having a hard time like managing the iPad
(18:01):
for your child? And we know that that is true
from any parents. How are people thinking about phones? Is
anyone's kids asking for a phone? And now are you
managing that? These are some of the conversations we need
to start initiating and having. When we do, it's like
opening the floodgates. We start to realize, Wow, everyone is
really struggling with it. They just didn't feel comfortable like
you're sharing that, or thought they were the only ones.
The third thing I would recommend for parents is to
(18:23):
do small things in your own life to actually try
to help and support other parents. Now, this is going
to be counterintuitive because you might think, hey, hold on,
I'm the one who needs helpier. You know, I'm struggling,
Like what do you ask me to help somebody else for?
But here's actually why this is so magical, because when
you do even a small thing to help another parent,
it could be for example, telling them, hey, you know,
I'll just watch your kid on the playground for the
(18:44):
next ten to fifteen minutes, if you need to go
make a call, if you just want to go sit
down somewhere and just take some deep breaths. These small
things help other parents feel like they're seen, help them
feel like they're not alone, and they also can be
incredibly empowering for you as a person doing the helping.
It helps forge a bond between you and other parents
as well that help you feel like you're not alone.
My wife Alice is a master at this. Give you
(19:06):
an example something she just did recently. She send a
message out to the text threat and said, Hey, I
know that the holidays are coming up and people are
probably shopping for gifts. Are there any parents out there
who have businesses that you'd want us to know about,
so maybe we can shop and support your businesses, you know,
like as we're looking for gifts. And all these people
responded like, well, what a great idea. Yeah, yeah, this
is a great way that parents can support other parents,
(19:27):
and it just helped it feel like more of a community.
But we also, for a long time, like hesitated to
have people over to our house because with two kids,
like our house is constantly in chaos. It's like it's
it's a mess, it's never like as tidy your need
as it should be, and it's also small, and we thought, gosh,
well we're not really set up to really entertain that well.
And then at some point Alison I just sat down.
(19:48):
We're looking. If we're feeling this way, other parents are
probably feeling this way, So why don't we just have
people over and just sound it's chaotic, it's messy, we're
not sure what you know we have in terms of food,
but we'll pull something together and just come over. We'll
just hang out, our kids will play together, and I'll
tell you. Once we started doing that, not only was
it tremendous fun, but we realized something really important, which
is that fundamentally, people when they come over, what makes
(20:09):
the biggest difference in their experience is the other people there.
It's not like how fancy your house is, was everything
neat and tidy? And in fact, a lot of parents said, oh, well,
thank you for having us over. Our house is always
in chaos, but you kind of make us feel like
it's okay to have people over too, So maybe we'll
start doing that. So these are some small things as
parents that we could start to do in our day
to day lives. But most of all, I just want
parents to know that again, if you are struggling out there,
(20:31):
do not feel like this is a reflection of your
failure as a parent or somehow you're something to be
ashamed of. You are part of a larger generation of
parents or collectively struggling with a whole bunch of new
challenges of prior generations and have to deal with. And
the more we can talk more openly about what we're
dealing with, the more we can find support and ultimately
get through parenting. Do well by our children and do
(20:54):
well by ourselves.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
So mothers and fathers can work to create their own
proverbial village to combat the loneliness and stress of modern parenting.
But doctor Murphy doesn't think that caregivis should be responsible
for taking care of themselves by themselves. After the break,
we'll talk about the big structural changes that are needed
to protect parent mental health. The Happiness Lab will be
right back. When it comes to improving parental happiness, there's
(21:25):
only so much that moms and dads can do on
their own. Former Surgeon General Doctor Vvick Murphy thinks that
modern society isn't set up all that well for parents
to reduce their own stress.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
It's absolutely the case that making parenting more sustainable has
to be as societal priority and requires societal action. And
so if we want to talk about workplaces, to start with,
having policies and programs that support caregivers in the workplace
is vital. And that can look like flexibility in hours
so that if a parent needs to be there for
a school event, they can do that without feeling guilty
(21:56):
that they are somehow harming the workplace. The other thing
that workplaces can do is ensure that parents have sickly.
One of the most painful decisions parents have to make
sometimes is what to do when they're child is sick
with regard to work in those moments, if you can
help a parent feel like you know what your child
is sick, it's okay if you are with them, it's
(22:17):
okay if you work from home. The other things that
workplaces can do is actually to ensure that when you're
picking an insurance plan for your employees that you're finding
one that actually has strong mental health care coverage as well,
because keep in mind, we are living in the midst
of a youth mental health crisis when many parents have
children who are struggling with anxiety or depression or maybe
even attempted to take their own life. This has tragically
(22:39):
become all too common, and being able to have at
least strong mental health care coverage that's really vital. So
finally I would just keep in mind, and this is
something that doesn't necessarily cost any money, but being able
to bring parents together in a workplace to even talk
about their experiences, not just with other parents, but with
other colleagues in the workplace. Talk about your family life,
you know, like tell people about your kids, help them
(23:00):
understand some of the things you contend with. That can
be immensely helpful. A lot of parents go to work
and feel like they have to completely check their parent
identity at the door, and feel like if they talk
about any of the challenges they have as parents, that'll
be somehow seen as they're weak or unreliable or not
somebody who should be promoted or dependent on in some way.
And the reality is that everybody, whether your parent or not,
(23:21):
has challenges outside of work, right, and the more we
can just be a little bit more human and open
about sharing those non work dimensions of our life. It
doesn't mean we have to divulge our deepest and darkest
secrets to everyone at work. But what it does mean
is that when we can come into work knowing that, yeah,
people know that we have children, or they know we
have small kids, or they know that, hey, maybe this
month is going to be able challenging because my child
(23:43):
is a lot going on that I need to be
there for. That can actually really help a lot to
reduce the stress and anticipatory anxiety that many parents feel.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I think this is so critical because people just spend
so much time at work. A third of your time
is at work, and study after study shows that for
a lot of people, the social connection in the community
to develop at work is their main social connection in community.
So if parents aren't connecting through other parents at work,
that leaves a big hole. So I love the idea
of using the workplace to find kind of connections among
(24:12):
parents and sort of maybe as a manager, even supporting
building that over time to protect parenttal health.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And I'll tell you one thing, Laurie. When I first
began my tenure as surgeon General, I remember I was
looking to hire a new staff and one of the
staff members I was looking to hire. I could tell
her something she wanted to talk to me about, but
like she wasn't quite bringing it up. Finally, I said, well,
what is It feels like something's on your mind, and
she said, well, thinking about maybe having a child, you know,
in the next few years, and I just need to
(24:39):
kind of know, like is that going to be okay here?
And the way she said it kind of broke my heart. Right,
You could tell that she was worried that if she
had a child that somehow she would be looked at
as a less desirable candidate or somebody who wasn't contributing
is enough to the office. I obviously told her, I
was like, we want this to be a place where
everyone feels welcome and you have a child whenever you want.
It's our goal and our priority and our responsibility is
(25:00):
a workplace to support that. But the fact that she
felt that way, you know initially, you know, before we
had a conversation about it, I started to see that
pattern again and again that many people worry. And so
I think as workplaces, if we can be proactive about
signaling to people that we don't look at parenthood as
somehow a handicap in any way, or is something that
is going to make you less desirable in the workplace.
(25:20):
I think that's really important. What I have found in
my experience now over two terms as surge in general,
having many people in the office who have come in
as parents or would become parents. I don't find it
like parents are somehow a dragon anyway in the office.
If anything, I find they add invaluable perspective. They work
incredibly hard. I mean, anyone who's a parent knows that
it forces you to have to figure out how to
manage time in pretty efficient and effective ways. So the
(25:43):
parents in our office bring so much. But I do
think that there is this fear that many of them
have coming in that somehow that's going to be a
strike against them. And as employers, it's our job to
ensure that they know from the outset that we're creating
an environment that's hospitable to everyone, including parents.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
So that's what workplaces can do to sort of protect
parent health. What are things governments can do to reduce
parents stress?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, Governments can recognize that. I think a couple of things.
One is that the financial challenges for parents are quite significant,
and that's why strategies like having a child tax credit,
which has been one of the most powerful strategies in
recent years in lifting kids and families out of poverty.
Making sure that we establish a sort of more long
term child tax credit is really vital. I think also
(26:28):
making sure that people have paid sick leave so they
can be with sick kids. This is a policy governments
can consider as well. And we know that childcare is
just extraordinarily expensive for many parents across the country, and
this is a place where I think policymakers can also
make a difference. It's just important also for government so
to recognize what is driving some of the stresses in
(26:49):
addition to finances. We talked earlier in this conversation about
tech and social media is being really important contributors to
the stress many parents are contending with. Governments actually have
a role in making social media safer, and this is
something I called for, and certain Deal's advisory at Istion
in twenty twenty three on social media and Youth Mental
Health laid out a series of steps that government can
(27:11):
take to put in place safety standards to ensure that
kids are protected from harmful contact and addictive features, to
ensure that we have transparent access as parents and as
scientific community to the data that companies have social media
companies and the impact of their platforms on our kids.
And finally, we've spent a lot of time of the
last couple of years when I was in office, talking
(27:32):
about the loneliness crisis in America and the profound impact
that has on physical and mental health. And that is
affecting kids, but it's also affecting parents, and so government
can make important investments in what we think of as
social infrastructure. These are the policies and programs and physical
structures that actually enable and allow people to come together,
that support existing programs in our communities that help people
(27:56):
build relationships. And we might have taken that for granted
over the years because tho's always existed, But in the
last few decades in particular, we've seen a real decline
in that social infrastructure, where few people are participating in
recreational clas service organizations, faith organizations, and so we are
fewer places to actually come together in person.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
We had my Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy on who talked
a lot about the kinds of things that governments can
do to build these so called third places thinking particularly
about parents and supporting their communities. Do you have any
specific ideas about how governments could intervene, specifically maybe local governments,
of what they could do to build these support systems.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Look, I think in addition to the broader policy actions
we've talked about, I do think that when local communities
have places and spaces where parents can gather at hours
that are actually manageable compatible with a parents' schedule, that
makes it a huge, huge difference. I'll just give you
some examples, like sometimes when there are music concerts that
are taking place, but they're late in the evening or
(28:54):
at night, that makes it challenging for parents to be
able to go. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have nighttime concerts,
but keep in mind, from time to time you also
have some concerts that are like in the late afternoon
on weekends. These make it feasible for parents to actually
take their kids and families and come together. I also
want to just underscore something that parents know, which is
that parks actually are really helpful for parents. They are
(29:16):
place where you can take your kids where they can play,
entertain themselves, get physical activity. It is invaluable to have parks,
but there are many communities where there aren't parks around,
or they've been taken over by housing developments, or they've
sort of fallen into ruin and they're not safer habitable anymore.
These kind of green spaces and places where parents can
come together and play is really invaluable. And so as
(29:38):
local communities and governments think about the festivals, events, places
that they build and develop, keep parents in mind, keep
in mind that they are often desperate for places together,
but that they need to be able to do it,
you know, during daytime hours because that's when their kids
are up. And when parents can come together with other
parents at these kind of places, it can really help
forge really powerful bonds. I'll maybe give you one last idea,
(30:02):
which is actually building on something that we just released
during my last few months as surch in General. But
it was a product called Recipes for Connection. It's actually
not recipes for food dishes. It's recipes for how to
have gatherings around food. And the reason that we did
this is a lot of people were telling us that
they were struggling with loneliness. They wanted to gather people,
but they weren't sure how, and they worried if they
(30:23):
did so that maybe people wouldn't come over, maybe they
didn't know how to cook, they wouldn't have anything to
offer people. They had all of these worries and anxieties
around gathering. So we put together recipes for connection to
help people find ways to gather. There are all kinds
of fun ideas and there. For example, you can have
a childhood favorites pot luck right where everyone can just
bring a dish that they loved when they were a kid.
(30:44):
I just did this actually recently, and we not only
got to eat the food that our mom's made and
dad's made when we were kids, but we got to
tell the story of our parents and we got to
learn about each other in the process. These are the
kind of events that you can imagine not just local government,
but local organizations helping to sponsor in a neighborhood or
helping to organize. But when we come together around food,
(31:05):
around physical activity, around entertainment like music, and in spaces
like green spaces that are hospitable for it, we can
really help foster community and support for parents, and that
can make a big, big difference in their lives.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And so I imagine as sooner in general, where you
put out reports like this, it really is hoping that
we're really going to see these changes. Now, sometime after
you put out the report, are you still feeling hopeful
that we can make these changes and reduce parent stress?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Actually, I'm feeling a lot more hopeful than even when
I put out the advisory because of the response we've
seemed to it. But the bottom line is, if we
can see parenting as a societal priority, if we can
monitor the well being of parents the way we do
the well being of kids with just as much importance,
my hope is that we can make a lot of progress.
(31:52):
Because the truth is, when I was putting together this
advisory on parents, I'll tell you I was shocked by
how little high quality data there is out there on
the mental health and well being of parents. It's almost
like we somehow decided it didn't matter that much and
didn't study them. But the data that is there, it
paints a concerning picture, but one that we can actually
(32:14):
address and ultimately get to solutions.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
If you're a parent listening right now, I know that
things may seem impossibly challenging at times, but keep in
mind that you're not alone. There are lots of caregivers
struggling with many of the same challenges you are, and
the good news is that there are actionable strategies you
can use to feel better. To summarize some of the
quick tips we've heard from doctor Murphy, remember that where
you're doing day in and day out is important and difficult.
(32:39):
Take time to give yourself some self compassion, commit to
recognizing that social media is not real, and find ways
to connect with other parents in as many small ways
as you can. If you're an employer, remember that you
need to protect parents in your workplace, especially now. It's
crucial that management offers flexibility, comprehensive health insurance, and sick leave.
(32:59):
And if you're a community leader, don't forget that accessible
and inclusive public spaces are invaluable to families. That toddler
eating sand like it's a Michelin star delicate. See One
day he might be the person who solves climate change
or cures cancer. Let's make sure his parents have the
support they need today so they can raise the kind
of person who will shape a better tomorrow. Big thanks
(33:21):
to doctor Vivick Murty for sharing his insights on how
we can help parents protect their mental health and this
initial conversation is just the start of all the advice
I'll be sharing on happier parenting. As I mentioned at
the start of the show, I've just launched my new
free online class, The Science of Well Being for Parents,
which is available now on qursera dot org. You can
(33:41):
also sign up on my website doctor Laurie Santos dot
com slash parents. That's doctor Lauri Santos dot com slash parents.
In next week's episode of The Happiness Lab, we'll tackle
some ways that well meaning, deeply loving parents can inadvertently
mess their kids up if they're not careful, and we'll
learn how to do better, not just as a parent yourself,
(34:02):
but also when you parent yourself. We'll explore the topic
of healthier reparenting with two of my favorite champions of
doing hard things to feel happier.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
We are a lesbian couple. We don't need to just
understand each other. We need to overstand each other. So Lori,
this is something that we spin around constantly because we
do have a moment where we kind of wake up
and we go, wait, is this who I really am?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
We'll hear from Glennon Doyle and Abby Wombach of the
hit podcast We Can Do Hard Things next time. Until then,
don't forget to head to doctor Lorisantos dot com slash
parents for more happier parenting advice, and be sure to
return for our next episode of the Happiness Lab with
me Doctor Laurie Santos
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