The almost-lost art of Susan Te Kahurangi King

Nonverbal since the age of 7, Susan Te Kahurangi King is an autistic artist whose drawings have been featured in museums all around the world. Lauren speaks with Susan’s sister Petita Cole about Susan’s journey from prolific, unknown artist to reaching international acclaim.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. There's a word for autism in the Maudi language,
takei watana. It means in one's own time and space,
and that's a particularly fitting description for the artists. Susan
Takahadangi King Susan is a seventy one year old, non

(00:39):
speaking autistic woman. Her middle name means precious one in
Terrau Maui, the language of the indigenous people of Ato,
New Zealand. That her parents gave her that name more
than seven decades ago is prescient. They must have known
Susan was one of a kind. Susan is an artist

(01:00):
in every sense of the word. She can draw exact
copies of old time cartoon characters from memory. She can
create perfect sweeping arcs without the help of a protractor.
And she can and has gone through fallow periods where
she makes no work at all. More recently, though, Susan's

(01:21):
work has come into its own and is now being
exhibited and collected all over the world after decades of obscurity.
Because Susan doesn't speak or use any adaptive communication technology,
we weren't able to interview her, but she did listen
to a couple of episodes of the Loudest Girl in

(01:41):
the World and was also lulled to sleep by the show. Amazingly,
she made a piece of art inspired by what she heard. Truly,
it was an honor to see my story interpreted visually
by such a talented artist. And for a limited time,
we're giving away prince of Susan's Loudest Girl inspired art.

(02:04):
Go to our website pushkin dot fm slash Loudest Girl
to enter our give way. Now. I don't know if
Susan liked our show, but her sister, Petita Cole, who
serves as her manager, told me that Susan was engaged
and inspired at least before the show made her sleepy.
In this very special bonus episode of The Loudest Girl

(02:27):
in the World, we talked to Petita about how Susan
blossomed as an artist and found her creative voice. It's
the story of a disabled artist's genius flourishing late in life,
but it is also the story of a sisterly bond
for the ages. My name is Petita Coole and I'm

(02:48):
Susan's sister. I'm ninetyears younger than her, so Susan Kahani
King is my sister. She was born in nineteen fifty
one in ti Arahai, New Zealand, and Susan is mostly
known for her amazing at work as a young kid.

(03:12):
From around about the age three, she began to lose
her speech, which was almost non existent at the age
of five and pretty near gone by the age of seven.
And it appears that as her as her speech was
going her her drawing came up. One thing loses in

(03:32):
the other games. I guess it's a compensation. I don't know, um,
but obviously there's a real skill and passion there that
has driven that that output. And so what were your parents?
What did they do? Were they? Were they born in
New Zealand? Um? Did? How did they end up there? Like,
I'm just trying to get a sense of your your

(03:54):
your geography, your family geography, right, Yeah, Mom and dad
met in Tara huh in a small town in New Zealand,
and married and actually lived in an old tent the
back of the family home, a little al army tent
for about a year or less than a year, something

(04:16):
like that, and lived in Tiartoha until nineteen sixty when
the ast to Auckland, the city. Basically when we shifted
from Tararoha to Auckland. That was basically because there was
no place for Susan in the small town of Taraha

(04:37):
as far as schools were concerned. She did go to
a school when she was five, and she was there
for a couple of months and then the teacher said, look,
you need to get her hearing test. You need to
get you know, you need to get her as sorted. Basically,
go do some tests and things. So she needed to

(04:58):
go to Auckland for that. There was a school for
people with disabilities starting up in Auckland, and so the
family shifted so that she could attend that school. They
called an Intellectually Handicapped school. It was called IHC. I mean,
what did specialist doctors say about Susan at the time,

(05:24):
How did they diagnose her? How did they determine she
should go to a different school, a special school? Like
what what were they saying about her at the time
when she went and had the tests. Basically, the top
child psychologist in New Zealand at that time had his

(05:44):
reporting and I can't remember exactly so I can't quote,
but basically his summary was it's probably a virus. She
might be better if she isn't. Don't worry. There are
institutions for people like this. There are hundreds of them.
So it was basically the recommendation was, if it doesn't work,
you can just put her in one of those places. Oh,

(06:07):
which of course was unthinkable for our parents because you know,
Susan's there, you know, loved daughter, and they will embrace
her and support her in the journey, but not sending
her off to some unknown thing for that. So basically
the normal mainstream professionals had nothing to offer. They basically

(06:31):
said come back in a couple of years time, but
there was no supports or no sort of recommendations really,
So then our parents were kind of like, well maybe
alternative practitioners, you know, so go to a a what
do you call it, like a naturopathect doctor or yeah.

(06:51):
And also the where you get message yet sort of thing. Oh,
it sort of like an acupuncture acupressure or sometimes Chinese
medicine or Eastern medicine or something. Yeah, that's right, to
relax her back, just a relaxation thing like that. And
then there was also color therapy they tried at some stage,
an irodologist. There was a palm reader. There was somebody

(07:15):
who I think they called it a radio thesis. It's
like radioactive waves. And he had m he said, it's
the cosmic circle. It's the water stream that is near
your home. You need to shift her position of her
bed in the room and put the pillow at the

(07:36):
other end, and then surely everything will be right after that.
It's the cosmic circle. And then there was another one
who said, with regard to Susan losing her speech, and
they said to mum, well have you ever said shut up?
And it's like, well maybe, they said, well even when

(07:57):
she's in the womb, did you ever say shut up?
Or well I could have if you know, well, then
that's it. It's your fault. You've basically put a curse.
So um, you know, one thing to another. Basically, there
were no answers, there were no supports. I mean even
the church, the Sunday school that they went to, they

(08:19):
told her not to come anymore because she had stopped talking.
But she did actually sing. I have heard of that
with other people with autism as well, that there's something
where although you don't speak, you might sing. And I
don't ever remember Susan's singing with words, but I do
remember her humming so but of course, you know, she'd

(08:40):
go to Sunday school and she would sing like everyone else.
But then when they stopped, she carried on, so like
you can imagine, it would be a bit annoying, like oh,
you know. So basically they said she couldn't she couldn't
come anymore, you know, which upset her greatly. So she
couldn't go to Sunday school, she couldn't go to school.

(09:02):
And then she was at home and she would she
had a large tricycle actually a three wheeler, and it
was quite cold, it's quite big, and she would just
go off for miles and this little kid past all
the streets. But you know, and she did run away
from home a few times as a kid, went up,
went up the mountain, and apparently she did get on

(09:24):
a bus and went all the way to Hamilton from
Tiatoha as well. She didn't run away. She was a wanderer. Yeah,
she was a bit of a wanderer. But I guess
if you have limitations and you've got a strong a
strong will, and it's like, well I'll sort myself out right, right.

(09:44):
Do you have a sense of how Susan got exposed
to making art, you know. I mean obviously all kids
or most kids have access to pens and paper and
just naturally do it all and express themselves visually. But
do you have a sense of how that happened for

(10:08):
sus and how that became an outlet. I think that
it's within her anyway, and then that was nurtured. So
you know, when I look at her drawings from when
she's a five year old, and she's really exploring shapes
and ideas, and you know, it's not just the odd

(10:30):
picture here or there, she's really exploring them, exploring what
she's thinking, for example, characters like Donald Duck and just
really exploring the furrowed brow and the bow tie and
the beak, just details, just and playing around with it,
even at a very young age, almost as if you're

(10:52):
a UNI student doing you know, your student UNI doing
a thesis on whatever, and you have a plan to
do such and such, and you do it. But it's
like that sense of I don't know if it's a
compulsion or a it's more than a compulsion. It's just
a real sensitivity to it and a talent. But I
think too that possibly the encouragement also goes a long way,

(11:17):
you know, when she was staying at my grandmother's place. Incredible, really,
the details that Grandma has noted. For example, look, I
I spilt a bottle of cream today, and now she's
drawn this and it had a picture of all these
buckets of paint all spilled over all the colors going around.
So it's like a fantastical version of what Grandma did.

(11:40):
And you know Grandma's experience of dropping the cream, but
for her to make that connection and then to document
it at a young age, when Susan was just five
or six. And then Grandma's written in her notes you know,
you know, I'm keeping all her drawings and putting dates
on them because she'll become famous one day or you know,

(12:02):
like that that real that she had. Yes, yes, she says,
I'd like to show them to a person in the arts,
you know, who can recognize this talent. And so she
had this understanding or appreciation of Susan's works even at
a very young age. Yeah. Grandma also had a lot

(12:27):
of interests, and she would look and think closely, you know,
at a lot of things, like she also had a
real interest in the development of the motorways, back then
in buildings, and so she's got all these photos slides
upon slides that she's actually gone out deliberately to take

(12:50):
a record, photographic record of the development of the motorways
in the roads. And then she would even go back
to get it. I've got the I've got it from
this angle. I need to go somewhere else and get
it from that angle, or get it in the morning
or the end of the day light, you know. So
there's this fixation on detail and architecture and construction, and

(13:13):
in very very often Susan would come with her on
those trips. So it's kind of like Grandma's almost encyclopedic
interest in so many different aspects going on. I mean,
Grandma sounds a little artistic, you know, yeah, probably, Like
you know, it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, probably. I

(13:34):
mean those are very particular interests and the sort of
recording of all of those. But I think that it's
so interesting because it sounds like, you know, with a
with a granny like that, she was very open to
whatever Susan needed or whatever her abilities, Like, she wasn't

(13:57):
put off by the fact that Susan didn't speak. She
was interested in her art. She was interested in bringing
her around to the things that she was doing, Like
she was encouraging it seems like, or and supportive. Yeah,
very much so, and very aware and accommodating of Susan's anxieties,
particularly as a young child. Yeah, anxieties of all kinds

(14:21):
of things sounds and just Susan kind of at a
young age going quite wild, like shaking her head, rubbing
her food all over her face and on the floor,
and you know, just being like hyperactive and shouting or
just not settling at night, still being up at till

(14:42):
midnight sort of thing, just can't settle her. So there
was quite a bit of stuff going on as a
young child for susan anxieties, and so it was really
nice for her to have this time out and to
be herself. When do you figure people started to realize, oh,

(15:08):
this person has a lot of talent, and like when
when was Susan's work, you know, when did it begin
to have public exposure? At some point it flipped over
where people actually you know, took notice. Back in nineteen
seventy would have been Susan's first splash in the news.

(15:34):
So what happened with the intellectually handys Kept school. They
have a door to door collection, you know, every every year,
and so they would basically profile one of the attendees
each year to profile the HC who they are and
what they do and this here's a collect opportunity for
you to donate to them. And so in nineteen seventies

(15:56):
Susan was profiled and so one or two of her
drawings featured an a full page ad in the big
you know, New Zealand tyrold or Auckland Staff whatever it
was back then. And also at that time some of
Susan's drawings were sent by the intellectually Handicapped school to

(16:21):
London for an auction. There an exhibition and an auction.
Interestingly enough, we didn't know prior to that. There was
no request or you know, they just went. And then
several months later or whatever, our parents received a letter
from the school to say, hey, we sent some of

(16:42):
you know, Susan's works and some were sold. So here's
five pounds. So here's five pounds and they were sold
to a member of the public. I mean that's amazing
because you know they weren't thinking of this as professional art.
I mean, you've seen this a million times. Right, this
this happens a lot, is like autism art programs and

(17:05):
it's put on by parents and it's like like, look
what the kids can do, and then people buy them
to be nice and to raise money, and it's you know,
it's like a little art show. But like here you
have a world class talent and it's so that they
probably didn't know that. I mean, it's weird to think like,

(17:26):
or it must be frustrating to think like if there
was a way for her talent to be recognized earlier
in a wider world, would things have been different for her?
Or how would her life be different? Yeah, exactly. The

(17:46):
world autism never came on the radar the whole several
decades that she was at the HC School for the
entire time. It's only in recent years that that came
to the family's awareness. I mean, my first teaching job
in two thousand and two was at a disability school
and it was only when I was interacting and working

(18:10):
with people with autism that I kind of thought, whoa, um,
I get it, Susan must be autistic, and it's like
and then I went and said to mum's Mum, I'm
sure Susan must be autistic. Mum goes what's that? Um?
And it had never been on the radar. It's like

(18:31):
what what's this? And of course as soon as you
realize that, then it's like, oh okay, so you can
start sort of joining the dots and thinking, okay, so
um this strategy might help or now I better understand that,
because that's you know, there's just understanding and support comes

(18:52):
with autism. I think, right, well, it's two you you
have two kind of dueling issues here, one which is
just general understanding in support of autistic people getting an
appropriate diagnosis, getting appropriate interventions, and then the sort of

(19:14):
art piece of it, which is not necessarily knowing what
to do with that, not like having a lot of
resources in that way. And so I mean, obviously it
seems like, though we do not know, it has worked
out okay for Susan. She has in a very supportive family,

(19:35):
it seems, and has been able to flourish and make
the art that she wants and have seemingly a lot
of sort of latitude and flexibility. But there must be
a sort of for you at least, like who knows
what could have happened, Like if if the services were better,
if the understanding was better, if the language around disability

(19:57):
was better, all of that. Yeah, And I think, you know,
I mean I look back and I think, well, I
think the sadest is that period where she had dropped drawing,
and that was from the early nineteen nineties. For a
long time. You would go back home and Mum's busy

(20:19):
doing something whatever, and Susan's just sitting there, just in
the doldrums, just you know, long face or whatever, and
you see Hi, Susan, and there's no response. It's just
I don't know, So I don't know what was going
on in her mind or you know. And I mean

(20:40):
Mum and Dad are great, you know, and they would
be their home and they would do what they can
to encourage her, but it's like just not going there.
It's like she was locked. I don't know whether she
locked herself in that way or just it was locked.
But I think there was a sadness there too, And
I don't know. I just don't know. I'll never know.

(21:02):
In around about two thousand and five, that's when I
decided Susan's and is not in a happy place. She's despondent,
she's not engaged, you know, and the contrast there also
just knowing like, there's poor Susan and look at her
amazing works. I have never been in a position where

(21:24):
I've actually gone to find out what actually are all
these drawings. I knew that there was stacks and stacks
of them stored away at our parents' place, you know,
in boxes and cases and rolled up in the rafters
and all sorts. So that's when I started what I
call the archival project, basically just unearthing box after box
and processing them, basically just beginning to cattalog them. And

(21:47):
I was involving Susan and that too, So I would
go and get them and then Susan can come home
with me and she can help you put them into
the pages and looking through them. So I think that
she did seem to enjoy that, and it was nice
for her to being involved in the process and to
see these drawings that she had seem for decades and decades. Right, So,

(22:12):
instead of providing her with materials, which you had all
done and it wasn't spurring any engagement with her, you said, hey,
why don't you participate in this project where we save
all of your previous work and so it's a different
kind of orientation for her where she doesn't have to

(22:33):
produce anything, but she is engaging with what she has
done previously. And so I'm guessing that that kind of
slowly brought something back to life for her. Yeah. Yeah, well,
I think her engaging in that and her seeing her
works and her seeing that her works are being appreciated

(22:53):
as well, and just enjoying them really. And then by
two thousand and eight is when Den Simon found out
about Susan's at work. That's the documentarian. Yeah, so he
made the documentary. So basically he approached me and said, hey,
I'd love to do a documentary about Susan's life and

(23:14):
her works. But he asked that really important question, which
was I think was pivotal in this hole with Susan
starting to draw again. He basically said, do you think
that Susan would or could ever draw again? I think
that there is something about when somebody outside the family asks,

(23:36):
especially if he's going to do a film, and he's
just asking this question, I'm not going to give it
an answer to that without actually really looking into the possibilities.
And I think too that what actually helped through teaching
at the disability school. Typically, what we would do is

(23:57):
work with the students and the parents and their supporters
to identify what are what do they have? And you know,
what are their skills? And where are we going? What
are the goals? And with your goals, what are the
strategies you're going to have in place to reach that goal.
So basically I think that subconsciously as applying that to Susan,

(24:18):
It's like, okay, so if this is a goal, is
to ken she or would she draw again? What are
the strategies or approaches to put in place to possibly
bring that about? And so it's not just like, oh,
do you want some pencil? It's like, hey, I got
to think outside the square here, who's going to be
involved and what are the different approaches that we could

(24:38):
we could have. So I spoke with Mum and my
brother Bernard, who's living with Mum at the time, and
within a couple of weeks she was drawing. Now, wait,
I want to back up and say, like your interest
in helping Susan re engage with her art was that

(25:01):
you saw that making art gave her a sense of
joy and fulfillment and purpose in her days or that
she enjoyed it and you wanted to help sort of
provide an on ramp for her to sort of get
that joy back. Absolutely, so that was the rush, That
was the urgency, and that was the real crunch of it.

(25:24):
But also knowing that these drawings are just absolutely fantastic,
and then you feel this weight or this kind of
burden that it's like these are too good to be
just here. They need to be out there. We need
to hear other people, and she needs to hear other
people say these are amazing, not in a patronizing way

(25:46):
of that's nice Susan, right right, not a pat on
the head like good good, like actually this is this
is world class arch Yes, yes, that's right now I
want to talk about Obviously Susan's had a lot of
styles over the years, but if you were to sort
of sum up her artistic sensibility aday her artistic style,

(26:11):
how would you do that? Her content is encyclopedic. She
covers from creatures to architecture, to cartoon characters to text,
even though she cannot read or write, to abstract concepts

(26:31):
like pulling, pushing, tension, pouring, says she'll have a jug
pouring spoons, pouring things, pouring, what's this pouring business? Or
you know. One of the intrigues I've been looking through
recently is what I call Susan's bird people. She's got

(26:52):
people in her drawings, but then and she's also got
a lot of birds. But she's got these amazing so
many different varieties of is that more a bird or
a person? You know, where personified birds or birdified people,
and just like, whoa, how did you do that? It's
like like a bird, a bird flying up off the page.

(27:12):
It looks like a beautiful bird, like a real bird,
not a cartoon bird that's wearing Donald Duck's jacket. And
then she's got another one where she's got a cow
and the cow has got Donald Duck's jacket on, and
then some of the other ones where Donald Duck has
taken his jacket off, so now he's in the nude.
And then you're reminded that actually, the whole time Donald

(27:34):
wears his jacket, he's never worn any pants. Although he
has his gloves on, he's lost his pants, and somehow
he seems fully dressed without pants. So these kind of
things come to but yeah, it's kind of her drawings
I think that they're an expression of what she's going through.

(27:55):
Like sometimes there's pure joy and I do remember her
years ago, like she'd be laughing when she's rowing, and
it's like, what are you thinking? Why do you know
why she's drawing? Then other ones are quite quite dark,
can quite sort of like wow, what is this? And

(28:17):
I mean if we have things that we're a bit
upset about or bit confused about, things that we want
to clarify our understandings or discuss something, we can do
that with each other. But how does Susan process a
misunderstanding or a fear or an anxiety about something and
she can't converse with somebody about it. So some of

(28:38):
her drawings that they're the conversations that she never had, right,
And when you think about all the conversations you have,
well depends on who they're with and what they're about
and when, so you know, but they're more than all
the conversations she never had because they're just done so brilliantly.

(28:59):
You know, they're not just they're not just some ideas
and we happen to have them all. It's like, man,
how do you compose such a thing? How do you
like some of the drawings are a real tangle, a
depth of characters like in action doing all this stuff.

(29:19):
But there's this one entwined with that one, and this
one's in front of that one that's behind that. There's
got there's all these things going on, but there's no
sketchy lines, no rubbers, and no rubbers, news, no raisers.
How do you do that? So I think it's and
I'm not just saying this because you know, if you
know how mothers think that their kid is the most

(29:41):
beautiful and clever kid in the world, and they and
they and they can't see past that because it's their
own kid. But it's not just because she's my sister.
It's like I look at that Misco, this is this
is just this is brilliant. Yeah, I'm curious when when
did she first sell? When did you first When did
somebody first acquire one of her? Her works? Her first

(30:04):
exhibition was in Sydney at Callen Park and yeah, the
works were not for sale, so none sold there. And
that's because explicitly we just said, you know, the works
are not for sale, because basically we've only just unearthed
all these works that we haven't seen forever and we

(30:25):
don't know this world. We didn't we didn't know the
art world, and so we don't want to run the
risk of making a mistake, so, you know, so just
to be safer, it's like, they're not for sale, but
you know, and they're now. Susan's um first show in
the States was in twenty fourteen. Where was that? That
was in New York at the Outside of Art Fair

(30:49):
and then followed shortly after at the Andrew Edlund Gallery.
And initially when we were approached for these exhibitions over there,
we said, yeah, sure, but they're not for sale. They said,
that's okay, they're too good not to be shown. Let
us show these. But then you know, we sort of decided,

(31:10):
you know, looking closely at it and realizing, man, you know,
this doesn't happen without passion, without dedication, without expense, and
in fairness, it's like, it's not until you step into
that world and begin to become familiar with it and
develop a bit of trust that then you realize, we'll

(31:30):
hang on a minute, this may be a good for
Susan for some works to be made available for sale,
because you know, these can be put into collection and
then the collectors getting behind and they can help to
you know whatever. So so, yeah, that was twenty fourteen
was when her works were first sold, other than the

(31:52):
one in nineteen seventy that was sold for five pounds
that we don't you don't know what it was so
so really, I mean, she had been making art for
gosh since the mid fifties until Hill really the twenty
tens before people in the international scene recognized her talent. Yeah,

(32:21):
that's right. Yeah, Yeah, it's a long time, isn't it.
It is, It is a long time. Did you observe
when Susan's work started getting attention, did you observe in
her any kind of shift or recognition that other people
thought her work was really special? With Susan, definitely, it was.

(32:43):
It was. The transformation was phenomenal. It was absolutely amazing.
Her whole demeanor, her whole facial like there's a lift,
her eyes was back, she lifted. He'd even stand up straight,
because she's got a bit of an old stop going
on there. I can remember also when the documentary was

(33:05):
being shot, which involved you know, like Susan being there
with important people coming for interviews and that sort of thing,
and the lights and the cameras and you know, so
Susan was beginning to feel quite special, you know, with
the filming of the of the show. And at around
that time, one of the jobs that Susan would do

(33:26):
at home was to empty the bully. And that's just
a scrap bucket at the end of the kitchen bench.
Good exercise. We got to walk all the way down
the back of the section, down by the bush and
empty it and bring it back up again. It's a
good good get your nose in the fresh air. But
but when she was starting to get famous and everything
and people, you know, all this attention and everything, and

(33:48):
Mum noticed Billy's not getting emptied, you know, and then
Mum would say to say to soon, oh, Susan, go
empty the bully, and she'd just look at it, and
then I'm not emptying the bully anymore. I just thought,
good for that. Whoa, that's just so good. What attitude
it's like, Umo, because I'm a recognized artist. Oh my god,

(34:15):
that is hilarious. Um, why do you think that her
work has resonated with so many people? You know, what
is it about it that speaks to folks? Yeah, it's
had to summarize that, but I think that maybe it's

(34:39):
the self taught approach where it's just so it's quite
it's very unique. It's kind of earthy, you know, in
the sense that it's not superficial. It's not fancy, prissy
or anything. It's just like it's like whoa, It's like, um,
I think, whether you're old or young, or whether you're
educated or not educated, in arts is something that like

(35:02):
arrests your attention and grabs you, pulls you in and
and um, I mean even even you know who works
that are quite abstract and there's no not a lot
of figurative recognizabull sort of objects in there. When you
look at it and you think, well, man, what is
going on here? You know, like it might be just
like projections of lines and the way she's composed that,

(35:24):
and it's like, I don't know, there's something there's something
quite captivating about it that draws you in. I think
sometimes too, that it's not in your face, that what
you see is what there is at first glance. So
it's not like just a big square with a big
flower in the middle. It's like you look and then

(35:46):
you look again, and then you look again. It's like
my gosh, there's more and more, And I think that's
that everyone wants an adventure ORF. I totally For people
who are not familiar with Susan or her work or
her story, what do you think it's important for people
to take away and to understand about her? M wow,

(36:14):
Obviously she's an amazing artist, and that Susan's got this
treasure that could possibly have gone unknown, and Susan having
been discovered as an artist, and Susan going back to
her drawing has basically saved her life. I mean, I

(36:36):
can't begin to imagine if she had done another decade
of not drawing and not being recognized. It's like I
just can't even It's unthinkable. But when I think about it, well,
she actually did it for fifteen years. How did that happen?
And oh my gosh? You know, so, I think that's
an encouragement that to encourage us to look about us,

(36:57):
look within us. You know, are there other people you
know that we can help or that can be helped.
But it doesn't happen without dedication, you know, like Susan's lucky.
There have been so many people with passion, belief, dedication
to actually it's almost like the star's got to be aligned.

(37:20):
You know that one thing happens in their nets dependent
on another happening. So it's not going to happen without
commitment and passion and dedication. But I would like to
think that other people can be discovered and their treasures
appreciate you. But Tita Coole is the younger sister and

(37:44):
manager of the artist Susan Takahari King. You can check
out Susan's work on Instagram at Susan Takahari King. That's
Susan t e k A h u r A n
g I King. This episode was produced by David ja
and edited by Sophie Crane, mix engineering by Jake Gorski.

(38:07):
Thanks to you Friend for list Sick