May 18, 2023 • 42 mins
Have you ever felt invisible?
From being overlooked for career opportunities, to being isolated from loved ones, and feeling overshadowed by children this week we get vulnerable to prove that we are in this together.
Plus we chat with Carlii Lyon, a personal brand expert who helps women in their 40’s and beyond rebrand themselves to feel relevant in their lives again.
SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR GUESTS:
Carlii Lyon, A Brand In You
And, Cathy, Sandra & Rose for sharing their story.
CREDITS
Hosts: Narelda Jacobs & Cathrine Mahoney
Executive Producer: Talissa Bazaz
Audio Producer: Madeline Joannou
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This episode of 456 club is made in partnership with
Priceline Pharmacy for expert advice and all your beauty health
and wellness needs. Visit Priceline Pharmacy in store or online
at Priceline dot com dot A U.
(00:32):
Have you ever felt invisible when I go shopping for clothes? Now,
I've noticed that the shop assistants don't come and ask
me if I need help. I always have to seek help.
It's almost like I'm invisible.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Being single and childless can make a woman feel invisible.
You start to get left out of your friendship groups
when your friends start to couple up and you're the
only single one I noticed when I
with my daughter in her mid twenties, men don't look
at me anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
They look at her. Do you remember the day? You
first felt like that the day you disappeared or are
you feeling more relevant than ever in your forties? Fifties
and sixties. This is 456 club. The show that helps
women in their forties, fifties and sixties, feel seen, heard
and better about everything.
I'm Nelda Jacobs and you will usually find me on
(01:19):
the couch at studio 10 at 10 am from Monday
to Friday. Sometimes you might see a pony on the couch. Oh,
I know. It was so exciting. You went to my
work the other day you went there. I wasn't, I,
I bring your friend to work somewhere else. You were
(01:41):
at my work on studio 10. How was it? You
were fantastic.
I tell you, I was so nervous and it's live TV,
isn't it? You were talking about this podcast? I was
talking about this podcast and you and how much I
loved you. And we talked about all sorts of things
including dryness down there, which was interesting having Tristan your
co-host just have to sit there while the other three
(02:02):
ladies on the couch talked about it. He was just
taking it and then I asked you on the party,
you also talk about being invisible and your reply was, well,
we haven't talked about it yet,
which brings us to today. But yes, we are here
today to talk about feeling invisible. Later in this episode,
we'll hear from women in the 456 club who are
(02:22):
all too familiar with feeling invisible. We'll hear how it
impacts
at them and how they navigated it to take back power.
And we'll hear from Carly Lyon who runs the brand
in New. She specializes in helping women rebrand themselves and
making them feel relevant again. But first, Keith, is this
something you've felt or experienced before
(02:44):
feeling invisible? Look to be honest, not in my forties.
I'm at late forties. Now. 48 I felt quite visible
in my thirties. I definitely felt invisible. I was married
to a high profile sportsman. And, um, you know, let
me tell you when you sort of walked into a
room of chaps at an event or something, I could
(03:04):
have been stood there like in a bikini and people
would have just pushed
me out of the way to talk to my husband.
So invisible that one time when we were at a
stadium and some guys came over and wanted a photo,
one of them sat on me to get closer to
my ex-husband to get the photo. I was like, am
I even here? Oh, my goodness, Keith. I never do
to you. It was just bizarre. I don't know. I,
(03:25):
it made me laugh. I used to sort of think,
oh my gosh, we've got like a real
but 12 o'clock we got two incoming. So I'd be
like you walk into a room though and heads turn.
That's the presence that you have. Oh, do I say
that again? Say it again. Well, my head turns. I really,
because I really tall and I bounce like when I
(03:46):
walk I think you just have, you just look really
cool as you walk in. Like I arrived
as I've just tripped up getting out of the list.
But I like the way you make me sound. Is
that your profession? In your professional life. You're a publicist. Yes.
So does that I feed into that as well. I
think you've hit the nail on the head because the,
my entire career you do have to be invisible. You know,
(04:08):
you're with a superstar or a singer or an actress.
Whoever you're presenting, you do have to be there but
invisible at all times whilst
control. So, yeah. So maybe I just learned the art
of camouflage, which can be a blessing sometimes I know
it can be good, but I'm back out now. Yes,
I'm wearing loud red colors. Tell me, what about you?
(04:30):
Have you ever felt invisible? Well, like you as well
when I was younger. So I'm the youngest of five
girls in my family. So as I was growing up,
I always was
for like somebody always did the speaking for me, I
never actually was called upon to speak. I know that
sounds odd and I was always kind of the cute one,
you know, and so nothing's really expected of the cute
(04:50):
one and everyone else feels seen, but I kind of
feel like I kind of just slipped under the radar,
but now I feel more seen than ever because I'm
sharing opinions and speaking and being looked upon for wisdom,
you know,
I think you're very wise. Yeah, which I think that's
(05:12):
something that comes with age and especially in first nations
culture where you reach a point where you're called auntie.
So I'm called auntie. I'm an auntie now, I didn't
know that. So with that comes a level of respect
that comes with age and lived experience. So for those reasons,
I feel more seen than ever. So, Kath, there's this
(05:34):
unwritten rule and it's become a bit of a joke
that women have got to be 39 or younger to
make it in TV. So we have this joke that
we're forever 39. And I think Anne used it on
the day that you were at studio T S and
we were like 456 club. And she's like, well, I'm
not 48 or something. I mean, she looks absolutely fabulous.
But
(05:54):
I was, and, and I was told that before I
decided to move to Sydney from Perth, I was already,
I think 43 or something. And I was asked by
someone I was getting advice from and he who was
in the industry for a long time, not working at
channel 10, by the way, he said, so, how old
are you? And I said 43 he said, oh, it's
(06:14):
getting a bit old. Um, they say women have to
be 39. And so I was like, oh, wow, I
just experience that, that thing.
And so then I came over and I'm like, looking
around at all the women at channel 10, they're all
like
my age or older and thinking like they're running the network.
These are women who are running the network. And it's like,
excuse me, because all I can see are women in
(06:36):
their absolute prime leading all the conversations that we're having
as a nation, which is fabulous. I mean, even being
part of this podcast is empowering, isn't it? I think?
And it sort of sets the agenda for everyone to
talk about aging because we're all aging and it's actually
not that bad. So, get on board. He sounds like
a dinosaur.
(07:01):
We're gonna be talking to Cathy o'brien who's in her
fifties and a writer and she's going to share with
us her invisibility experiences, Cathy. Do you remember the day?
You first felt invisible?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Look, being a mum, you feel invisible a lot? I
reckon I felt invisible when my son was born. All
of a sudden the focus was on him
and I hastily changed my name from my maiden name
to my married name when I got married. And then
all of a sudden when I had this little baby
(07:34):
in my arms, I was like, oh, hang on. I'm
nobody now. Like I'm just somebody's mum and I'm somebody's
wife and who am I in all of this? So
it probably was like a slow burn 22 years ago
when my son was born
and then my daughters were born three days after my birthday.
(07:56):
And I can remember my mother-in-law saying to me not
long after my twins were born.
Oh, well, I hope you enjoyed this year's birthday because
you'll never have another one to celebrate again. And I
looked at her and I was like, oh, ah, I
don't think so. It's my birthday. So, yeah. Oh,
Speaker 1 (08:17):
listen to someone whose birthday is on Christmas Day. Once
I became a mum, I was like, oh, it's gonna
have to be about the kid for a bit, isn't it?
Why is your birthday on Christmas?
Yes. How did you feel then when your birthdays rolled around?
Just all the gifts on the one day? I love
it because generally it's a day that most people are
happy but Cathy, do you have to remain vigilant that
(08:38):
you don't slip into that sort of losing your identity?
Because when we get married, we're told to take on
our husband's last names, like in a traditional heteronormative sense,
I don't really think, oh, I can retain my name.
I can retain my identity. How do you then reclaim
your
Speaker 2 (08:56):
identity for the last, I don't know, 18 years. I
really didn't. It was a very difficult process. I was
lost in the identity of the family and the identity
of being a mother to three Children, a mother to
twins because that's something different again
and being my husband's wife. And it wasn't really until
(09:21):
I had my breakdown, I guess, with a lot of
work on myself and a lot of support from my
medical team and my mental health team
working out who am I in all of that? And
that kind of morphed into looking for something that I
wanted to do that made me happy in life. And, yeah,
(09:45):
so it's really in the, only in the last kind
of few years, three or four years, maybe that I've
started to think about who am I in my family,
family and who am I in this world? How did
Speaker 1 (09:59):
it feel when you say you felt invisible?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Nothing was about me. Nothing at all was about me.
It was always, if I wanted to go to work,
it was about how can I do this in the
smallest and the quietest possible way that doesn't impact the
family because we needed
(10:23):
me to be there to pick the kids up or
to take them to dance or to run them to
football training or medical appointments or whatever. So losing myself
in all of that, I really didn't think that that
would happen. I thought that I would have a career
and I would balance having a career and being a
(10:45):
mother and you know, being the best friend and being
the best wife and all of those things. And
you know, I'm a total gen X baby. We were
told go to school, get a degree. You can have
a great career, you can have a family, you can
do all of these things, but they left out the
little bit, the little caveat at the end, you can't
(11:08):
have it all at the same time, you can, but
not all at the same time.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Kay and cat, there's one thing that strikes me
out of this and, and is that heteronormative has a
lot to answer for. We slip into gendered roles, don't we?
And societal expectations of us no matter what we're told
exactly what you've said, Cathy, like go and achieve all
your dreams, you know, the world is your oyster. But
when society expects that you will be the primary caregiver of,
(11:36):
you know, your Children and then
potentially aging parents as well. Like you said, you know,
you've got to keep yourself small to be able to
go out and achieve the things that you want. So
that doesn't upset the household too much. I mean, everything
else should be able to fit around you so that
you can go and do these things because it would
make you a better person, which then your Children will
look up to. I think this is wild
Speaker 2 (11:56):
100%. I completely agree with you. No, it's ridiculous to
think that
that so many women think that they need to be
small so that they can not impact the family or
they want to have their career. But how do they
juggle this coming through? That was really, really hard and
trying to get back into the workforce when you've been
(12:19):
out of the workforce for 15 years is ridiculously difficult.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Is that where you notice the age adding to the
invisibility and difficulty of that
Speaker 2 (12:31):
landscape, 100% and the amount of people including recruiters, they say. So,
can you give us a reference? I was like, well,
I can give you my last job, which was in
2006 and this is in 2000 and,
(12:52):
and 18. And they're like, well, that's no
Speaker 1 (12:55):
good but Cathy all those unpaid jobs that you were
doing at home and probably in the school community, you
can't necessarily put that on your CV. Can you? Because
it doesn't really count for anything in the eyes of employers.
It was
Speaker 2 (13:09):
really, really challenging. I did do a lot of volunteer
work with model, both association and one of my
colleagues who I sat on the national board with, she
actually was a referee for me. Ultimately, I did have
to put down my volunteer work. And that was really
hard because it's like, well, can't you just give me
(13:31):
a chance? And they're like, oh, but you're so old,
what have you been doing? It's like, yeah, I know.
But I've been raising humans. Like, that's a big deal, right?
Like
raising a human is a very important job.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I'd love to explore the idea that there is power
in being invisible sometimes.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, 100%. I think that when you
are invisible and when people don't expect anything of you,
people underestimate you and then all of a sudden you'll
do something amazing at work. Or you might do something
with your friends or whatever and everybody has really underestimated
(14:16):
you along the way. So when you're watching, you get to,
I don't know, you get to take a lot more in,
you get to listen, you get to
get all of the input, you get to take all
of that information on board because no-one's expecting anything from
you and they tell you a lot of things as well.
(14:37):
That's what I find. I find that so many people
will come to me and tell me all sorts of
information that probably they shouldn't share with me. Then I
use my powers for good. My little invisibility powers for
good and go oh toddle off and do this or
do that. And,
and you can sometimes have real influence and you know,
(14:58):
you can shape conversations when people don't even really realize
that that's where it came from.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So Sandra is about to join us. Now, she lives
in regional New South Wales and was 56 when she
was made redundant. After a company restructure. Six months later,
she went for her first interview and sadly, this was
the first time she's actually felt invisible. Yes or worthless.
Yeah. Or pass your expiry date. So when have you
(15:32):
felt like that? I had an interview at an accountancy
firm four years ago. Not quite. And during the interview,
they were sort of leading sort of asking questions, you know,
about how long do you think you'll stay in?
I thought, hm, shouldn't really ask these sort of questions.
But anyhow, I sort of answered. I said, oh, well,
you know, I usually give a good five years or,
or something and maybe even longer. And then when the
(15:54):
person rang to say that I didn't get the job,
they said they wanted someone younger because I was the
same age as the person I was going to be
eventually replacing and would be retiring at the same age
at the same time.
And I thought, well, when this person knew me, I
considered him a family friend to one of the other
girls on the interview panel, went to school with me.
(16:15):
So she would have known how old I was. Why
did you waste my time interviewing me and then telling
me I was too old Sandra. How old were you
at the time? Not quite 56. Oh, you were a baby.
The thing is right. Ok. Let's ask you, what were
(16:36):
you angry about?
Sort of been written off that someone might think that
I didn't know when I was going to retire. So
they sort of made up presumption that I was going
to retire at the same time. This other person was.
And I thought, well, who's to say I'm not gonna
work until I'm 66. So I'm older. I wouldn't even
call you middle aged care change in you at that age. Funny,
(17:01):
you should say that I've had one
excellent. The thing that I was angry about was that
when you ask people, you know, how long you've been
in your job for or whatever? Like, and I've been
at channel 10 for 23 years. It's, it's a really
long time. I started to get embarrassed because I was
in the same job for such a long time because
everybody
moves on after a, just a number of years and
(17:23):
younger people have career changes after like, five years. So
for them to, like, I'm offended on your behalf that
they would expect that you wouldn't be in the job
for very long because you go off and retire. Yeah,
I mean, I thought, well, no one knows exactly when
they're going to, like, depends on your health and circumstance too,
but I certainly had no plans of retiring before 60
(17:44):
and I'm 60 now and I don't have any
plans to retire before 63 still. So I could have
done easily five years, eight years, probably. But anyway, they
decided that because they were wanting someone to replace this
person who was the same age. Well, don't damn will
interview me then. You know how old I am? I
feel like we're gonna have a Julia Roberts moment towards
(18:04):
the end of this conversation with the, you going back
in the shop with your bags going big mistake feeling
that coming.
Did this knock your confidence? So when you had to
apply for a job after that? Did it knock your
confidence or did you think, hey, screw you. Well, I
thought most people you're going to have an interview with
won't have a clue how old you are anyway. Unless
(18:25):
you advertise it. It's just that it was some people
I happen to know in this case, I got some
temp work at the local hospital and then I was
there for three years. And did you feel visible?
Those jobs? Yes. Yes, I felt no problem at all.
I like that. Now, you've just turned 60 and five
months ago you started a new career in an industry
(18:46):
you've always wanted to work in. This is your Julia
Roberts moment. Sandra. How does it feel? Amazing? Amazing. Yes. Travel. Oh,
so good company who does tours in the Outback? And
I do their rooming list. So for all the tours
that they do, if you want a bed, your name
needs to be on that rooming list. So, um, very busy,
(19:07):
very busy and no retirement in sight. Absolutely not. So, Sandra,
I really hope this hasn't happened to other people. But
what is your advice to others who do experience this
sort of a thing? I'd just say keep trying, essentially,
keep trying. Not everybody thinks like that. Obviously just
(19:28):
keep hanging in there. I always think up comeback lines
way after the fact. Is there anything that you would
like to say to them if you were in the
room with them again. Now that you've had some time
to think about, we're gonna have to beat this. I'd say, well,
I went to school with you. Why did you interview
me and we've been family friends for 30 years. Why
(19:49):
did you interview me when you thought I was too old?
I'd put it back on them. That's fabulous. And also
look at how it's ended. I'm a big believer in
the universe. Like you've ended up doing something that you've
always wanted to do. Love that, love that. I hope
one day you can turn the tables on them, Sandra
and give them some of their own medicine.
I mean, we like to take revenge, but I feel
(20:12):
like we don't mind a little bit of revenge doing.
I hope sometimes they might have some trouble or some
loved ones who might want some trouble. But they'll be like, oh, yeah. No,
I'm sorry. There's nothing for you. Computers, Sandra. Thank you
so much for taking the time to share your story
with us. No, no worries. Thanks for having me.
How much do we love Sandra? She was fantastic. She
(20:35):
was fantastic. I loved her. But also just to have
such a positive outlook on life and think, you know, well,
you didn't deserve me and I won in the end. Yeah. Well,
she's having a great time now. She's into a career
that she never thought she'd have that she wants brilliant.
And that office can remain miserable. But, yeah, living her
best life. Exactly. Here's to more Sandra.
(21:08):
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Now we're joined by Rose from Melbourne. She's 43. She's
single and doesn't have Children and that's why she feels invisible. Rose.
Have you ever felt invisible? Oh, probably like the last
(22:15):
10 years for me because I'm single, no kids. So
I kind of don't fit in with my friends and
then
with people at work. So yeah, what do you mean?
Usually you hear parents say it's the other way around
that as soon as they have kids, they stop being
invited to things by their single friends or you know,
(22:35):
they kind of overlooked for things because they have kids.
You're finding it the opposite when they coupled up. It
wasn't too bad. It was just sort of, I guess
more
once the last friend sort of got married and then, yeah,
it felt outside that because they would all catch up
without me. And then I find out later and then
once I started having kids, so I just found out
(22:58):
that they were pregnant a lot after the fact of
everyone else. So. Yeah. Wow. That must have been hurtful.
It's kind of like lining up for a royal show
ride and you have to go two by two because
you are on your own. You can't ride. No, you can't.
Oh, that's rough. Ah, I mean, I've, I've experienced that
(23:18):
certainly as a single person, you know, that friends have
had dinner parties and get togethers instead of being the
fifth or seventh chair. I've just seen on Instagram. So Rose. I,
I certainly know how that feels. Are you left wondering
why is this happening to me?
Yeah, because I don't really like to bring it up
because then I think, oh, maybe it's just, I'm reading
too much into it or, like, I remember talking to
(23:40):
someone about it and they're like, well, they probably just
feel awkward having me there as a single person. I
was like, ok.
Wow, that's an interesting way of looking at it. So Rose,
you're feeling invisible from people. You know, but what about people?
You don't know, what's it like when you walk into
a room or you, you know, you're ordering something at
(24:01):
a restaurant or, you know, you, you're at a public place,
do you feel invisible then?
No, not then. But if you're gone to something specific or,
and then you get asked around, you know, do you
have kids like that? Whole conversation starts right. And then
you go, no. And then I've had people at some
places just sort of turn around and then go and
talk to someone else. You need
(24:21):
my friends, nobody likes their Children. I know everyone will
be really happy to hang out with your rose. And
then yeah, so it can be a little awkward, I guess.
And then there's, you know, a lot of, I guess
in especially social media, you just see a lot of
things around moms and
how important their role is and that type of thing
(24:42):
and then you just feel like things that you do
aren't so important. And I mean, and you hear any politicians,
for example, like every budget speech, working families, working families,
working families. So I'm sitting here going please have inclusive
language around. It's not just working families, single people that
are being hurt or couples. So, you know, there's
impacting the economy that aren't just for a particular section
(25:06):
of our society. That is so true. That's a really
good point. But you sound like someone who's really positive
and that you're not just sort of sat in there. So,
what are the other ways that you've maybe taken your
power back?
So, I got a couple of friends who, um, have
either got older kids or, you know, there's a couple
who don't have any, you know, they chose not to
kind of just then look at things and I think, well,
(25:28):
some people, they're just coming from their own perspective, right?
Like
they're in that particular mode of, you know, being a
mother and they look at that and go, well, this
is the most important thing that they're probably doing and
it's probably the language that people use. What would you
say to someone who's listening, who might now want to
sort of change the way they speak to some of
their friends who are in a similar situation to you,
(25:51):
I think just be a bit more inclusive
in it and not assume that because they don't have
kids that they're off having this massive, wonderful, beautiful life
because at the end of the day, we still have
to work, we have our mortgages. Like I haven't had
a holiday in years, but even pre COVID, right? And
that's just because you have
(26:11):
commitments and you've got work commitments. So, so like, you know,
you're going out every single night in a bar, living
it up. So just being inclusive with your friends and
reach out to them. So when I was in my
early twenties. So I nearly died. Like I had an
antic reaction
and I made it to hospital just in time and
I was really good. Like about the, the dying part,
(26:34):
I reconciled that in the moment, which was fine. And
then it's just recently that I thought what's really my
purpose because if I died in that moment, it's not
like there are Children who would never have been born.
So there's not like a, you know, like that sliding
doors moment. And I just thought, oh, well, because that
(26:54):
whole motherhood part that people talk about and how it's
so important. And I thought, oh, is that meaning that
my life is not worth anything? So sorry, I'm just
a bit. It makes me a little bit sad
when I think about it. It can be difficult when
everyone just talks about this
(27:15):
life that they have and how awesome it is and
these Children that they have
and then when you don't have that, that's powerful stuff rose.
You know, and I think mothers don't always talk about
how it isn't all the things that we're told it
will be. And sometimes it's difficult to disassociate yourself from
this role when you're also, you know, a person in
(27:35):
your own. Right? I suppose.
So. I think there is a lot of Hallmark moments
around things like motherhood when the reality, either way, whether
you are or not is, is very layered, isn't it? Yeah.
All the emotions that you're feeling are so valid. We
really appreciate you being so open. Yeah. And being vulnerable
because this stuff's not easy to talk about. No, that's ok.
(27:58):
I think what was most interesting about Rose is that
she felt invisible amongst people that she knows that she's
known for a long time and as soon as he
turns a certain age and they grow apart by the sounds.
But just because of life,
we're joined by Carly Lyon. She's a personal brand coach
(28:19):
and runs the brand in you Carlie. You work with
women in their forties and beyond every day. So what
would you say are some of the most common concerns
people are facing in this era of their lives.
So I'm going to answer that with a story. So
a client of mine that I was working with had
just gone through a bit of a career change and
(28:41):
she was wanting to work on her personal brand. And
we were talking about all the different ways that she
might put herself out there. And she said to me, well,
I'm almost turning 50 and the reality is nobody wants
to look at or listen to an old lady.
And that to me showed where her mindset was at.
And that is really the perfect example of what a
(29:05):
lot of these women, you know, 40 plus the biggest
struggle when it comes to them being visible and being
seen that is really where it starts, Carlie. Is it
her that can't look at herself or is that her
perception of other people not being able to look at?
What is it 100%? So it, to me, what that
showed me was she had this fundamental belief that now
(29:28):
that she was over a certain age that she didn't
look good enough or
that she didn't have anything good enough or nobody would
want to hear her speak because she was of a
certain age. So that was 100% her own thoughts and feelings.
And the thing is there is a thing in psychology
called confirmation bias. We like to prove ourselves, right?
(29:48):
So at the end of the day, if you have
a fundamental belief that oh, now that I'm over 40
50 60 I'm too old to be seen and heard,
then you are going to be looking for and experiencing
things that confirm that it's not to say that there
aren't external forces. So 100%
ageism may exist, there are certain stereotypes that exist, you know,
(30:12):
media is infatuated with youth and things like this. Like
this podcast, this helps to counteract those external forces. But
a lot of the work that I do and really
focus on, which I think is ultimately more empowering for
the individual is the internal focus. Well, how do you
coach women into feeling visible again?
(30:33):
So I have four kind of top tips. So firstly,
I think it's about acting your spirit, not your age.
So I have a perfect example of this. A friend
of mine had a grandmother who's now sadly passed away.
We affectionately called her Nana Anna. Right up until her nineties.
She dressed impeccably. She'd walk into a room, she'd command attention.
(30:55):
She had just this beautiful air of grace and elegance
about her. And it really did start with her own
opinion of herself. Her, her, it was her energy that
was attractive, not just the physicality. So act your spirit,
not your age, lean into that
forge a standout style. I have a client who's in
(31:15):
her sixties. She's the CEO of a very large company.
She has pink hair and she wears the most amazing
pra glasses. She walks into the room, she just owns
it and she's dressed in a way that helps her
really be seen. So I think forging a style like
the beautiful jacket you've got today.
There's no way you could be invisible today. That is fine.
(31:46):
It's amazing. So, you know, leaning into that, really using
your clothing to show up and to be seen and
perhaps that starts to change as you go through the
different decades and as you get older,
I always say to my clients invest in a profile image,
a digital profile image. And here is why it's really
(32:07):
important in the world that we live in that you
have a digital presence. So anyone who's 40 plus we
didn't grow up with social media. So there's probably still
a mindset of, oh, maybe I'll do a bit of
social media. That's not how the world is anymore. There's
the physical world, there's the digital world,
but both of the real world and you need to
be visible in both. The linkedin world is really like,
(32:30):
it is actually sorted me out in the linkedin sketch.
You got to be there. And I think when you
invest not, I think I know when you invest in
a great portrait chart and research shows that this is
really important.
(32:51):
It will make you feel more confident in that online space.
And if you think about it, that profile shop, perhaps
you'll use it no more than five years. You don't
want anything. You can't have a profile
that's 10 years old MC events and they still use
ones that are like over 10 years old. Ok? You
(33:14):
need to take 456 club vote. Lovely. Just cut me out.
I've got, I've got a serious attitude in that photo too.
Cut me out.
I love it. I love it, but it's a worthwhile investment.
And if you run the numbers, you know, it's a
worthwhile investment. That's all I'll say. And then lastly create
(33:36):
a multi age network. So do not only spend time
with people of your own age
when I was younger, I loved hanging out with people
who are older because I loved the wisdom that they
would give, as you get older, it's important to hang
out with people that are younger because it keeps you
tapped into not only youth culture, but they will bring
(33:57):
out a different side of yourself. If you're always spending
time with them,
women or men in the same age bracket, as much
as you've got that sense of, uh, we know what
we're all going through. I think it's important to have
younger friends to perhaps give you a different perspective of
yourself and you shortcuts on your phone as well.
(34:18):
I always my camera, the long way you go in,
you unlock your phone, you go to the camera icon,
you can just love it. There's one button you can
press when it's locked. Do we all know this? Listen, I,
I only recently knew about the torch. So don't look
at me,
Richard Wilkins showed me. I mean, he could, he definitely,
(34:40):
he could definitely listen to in the,
oh my God. But I'm all for that. I've got
a mentor who's, you know, I think she's late sixties
now and I love what she sort of, it's gold,
what she said to me. And it's funny when you
were talking about your client with the Prada glasses and
the pink hair when I talked to my mentor about
this space because she was in corporate for a long time,
(35:02):
you know, and I said, did you ever feel invisible?
And she said no, because I specifically dressed in a
really strong way that was sort of like, you know,
because she was up the front, always kind of leading
the discussions and I was like, great, cool. So I
will stick with a red lip. You've got it works
on you, you talk about branding in business. Ok, because
there'll be a lot of women sort of, you know,
(35:23):
listening in that space. What do you mean by rebrand
and how, how do women do it?
Yeah. So when I talk about branding, I always talk
about the four PS. So you've got your promise, packaging
position and promotion. So what's your promise? What do you
want people to know you for and, and know about you.
What's your packaging? This is where it comes into your styling,
(35:43):
your social media sites. What's the message that you're putting
out there when it comes to positioning?
Who are you spending time with, who's in your network?
You know, who are you aligning yourself with? Where are
you working? Uh where are you showing up? And this
can work in a professional sense and in a personal sense,
if you're wanting to reinvent your personal life, this also applies.
(36:06):
You want to change your life, change the things you do,
the places you go and the people you spend time
with
and then the promotion piece is that visibility piece. How
are you putting yourself out there? How are you making
sure that you're seen and heard by the people that
actually matter.
You gave me this great advice years ago when we
were talking about social media and linkedin and anywhere that
(36:27):
you promote yourself, you know, we were talking about, oh,
but sometimes you, you might have a great image of
yourself or something, but you don't want to put it
out there because you're like, oh, what are people gonna think?
And then we nutted it down to who are those people?
And it's usually maybe someone you worked with once. So
it was a bit of a bully or like you
go to these three people that we're not very nice
to you. And you're like, what will Jane think from
(36:47):
a
Exactly. And it's like Jane doesn't stop doing anything because
of me. Does she. And so that really years ago
empowered me to just go if I believe in it.
And it's true and it's authentic and it's something I
want to share, whether it's life stuff or work stuff,
put it out there 100%. This whole conversation. I've been
picturing the devil wears Prada, is that the person, the person,
(37:12):
but that is
like the sharp dress up. Everything is so stylish, but
you don't have to be harsh about it. Like sometimes
when we think of an assertive older woman who knows
what they want, who's stepping into their power. That is
kind of the image that we see. But we need
to stop thinking along those lines 100% and there's no
one definition of powerful. There's no one style that's powerful.
(37:35):
So your style, your packaging, your promise, it might be
really relax
and down to earth it. What matters is that you
come at everything with a certain level of intentionality. What
is that message? What are you standing for? And what's
the deer that you want people to walk away with
when they meet you? What's the story that you want
(37:56):
them to, to experience? We all have clothes that we
keep for a special occasion, don't we? Why can't we
just wear them every day? Isn't that beautiful? Why do
we have
the good China for a special? Why can't we eat
on the good China on the good China since COVID,
since COVID, nothing's been the best. So you put a
good frock on with sneakers, you just, and you just
(38:18):
rockets has transformed everything, hasn't it? You can wear sneakers
with everything you can in the bedroom a bit awkward
with hi armies when you go to bed, get them
off first, take your shoes off. But I I
here for, don't keep anything for bear. Yes. 100% 100%.
All right. So what's the best advice you've got for
(38:39):
women who are listening, who do feel invisible, take the
steps that we've spoken about today and really look at,
sit with yourself and think about what is the mindset?
What are those beliefs that decisions that you've made about
getting older, that perhaps you need to reframe and change.
And that
to me is the most important step because if you
(39:02):
start to change the way you're thinking about getting older
and what that means and this new form of visibility
that to me has such a huge ripple effect in
all areas of your life. So that would be the
first and most important step to take. I love that.
I love that too. I've loved this entire chat. It
makes so much sense because self confidence is the best
(39:25):
kind of confidence because if you're confident in yourself, then
other people can be 100%. It's so true and we
need one another, which is why I love what you're
doing with this show.
We need to change the narrative together collectively. So the
more that women do put themselves out there and make
themselves visible, it will continue and that narrative will change.
(39:48):
So it's, yeah, you're definitely contributing to that. I'm gonna
have to write some of this down. Yeah, I feel
like there's a lot of post it note and stick
on my laptop. Carli. Thank you so much. Thank you
for having me.
How did you feel about Carlie? Oh, well, listen, I'm
just crazily writing everything down. It's just post to heaven
(40:10):
over here. What about so many things? I think it
was a reminder about what we feel on the inside
is reflected in what people see on the outside and
it's not about being beautiful and it's about how you
carry yourself. Absolutely. It's like sitting up straight and smiling sometimes,
isn't it basic stuff that you just go? I feel
better about myself. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
(40:35):
Well, we're at that time again in the episode where
we give recommendations. Nelda, what do you have for us
this week? Well, after listening to Carlie, I really resonated
with what she said about wearing clothes that you feel
fabulous in almost reinventing yourself a little bit. Like stepping
out like
full of confidence. I went to Paris recently. Can you
(40:59):
name drop a city? Like I went to Paris recently
just for the week. My daughter was over there. Now
I live by Cary through your social media and she
was like mom, I'm going to be in Paris, come
and meet me and I was like, yes, she also said,
don't expect to have all of your meals with me
or talk to me the whole time, wasn't it too?
They were guidelines.
(41:20):
So anyway, what I packed knowing that I had a
limited time in Paris was all of my best clothes.
I packed all my best clothes and she incidentally had
done the same. She was in Europe for a lot
longer than I. So she already had her best clothes.
But I was there for
five days. I curated my wardrobe, best clothes every day
(41:40):
when I stepped out of my room I knew I
looked good and I felt so good. And the thing
about being overseas or somewhere new is no-one knows who
you are.
No-one has a story about you. You haven't kind of
stepped out already thinking that you are invisible. So go
somewhere somewhere fresh, mix it up. Take all of your
(42:01):
best things. Love this. It's all about our best, isn't it?
This episode so visible even if it's in the lift
in the mirror,
that's when it started for me, you know, taking selfies
in the lift. Actually finding out the best way to
take a selfie in the lift to tip the tip
the down lights. I always end up with a down light.
I look like I'm in a horror movie. I always
(42:21):
go to smile at the camera thinking that the reflection
is going to make contact with my eyes. But the
best thing to do is look down at your phone. Oh,
is it? Yeah. Apparently I don't know for me or
what
gonna try. I'm gonna try a bit of that in the,
see what we can pull out. What's your recommendation? Well,
after last week and obviously the disaster that was passing
someone and ending it was red lipstick everywhere. He and I,
(42:44):
I have been road testing some Priceline red lipstick stains.
They do not come off. Let me tell you, I mean,
I've only been kissing my hands sadly
a loser. I admitted that on a podcast maybe we
edit that out if I'm ever to go on a
date again. No. So it keep it in. So that's
my tip. I'm trying. The stains are the stains good.
(43:05):
They're really good. And there is a red for everyone
in Priceline because some people say to me, I couldn't
wear a red. I'm like, listen, there's a red out
there for every face.
Thank you for listening to this episode of 456 Club.
If you loved the show, then make sure you rate
and review and share it with your friends and join
(43:26):
us next week when we talk about parenting your aging parents.
The executive producer of 456 Club is Talisa Baza with
audio editing by Madeleine Joan
and we'll see you next week. Bye bye. We know
that everybody's experience in their forties, fifties and sixties looks
and feels different. So we want to hear from you,
(43:48):
head to the show notes and complete a short survey
and to thank you for your time, you could win
a $50 voucher.
This episode of 456 Club was made in partnership with
Priceline Pharmacy for expert advice and all your beauty health
(44:08):
and wellness needs. Visit Priceline Pharmacy in store or online
at Priceline dot com dot A U.
This episode of 456 club is made in partnership with
Priceline Pharmacy for expert advice and all your beauty health
and wellness needs. Visit Priceline Pharmacy in store or online
at Priceline dot com dot A U.
(00:32):
Have you ever felt invisible when I go shopping for clothes? Now,
I've noticed that the shop assistants don't come and ask
me if I need help. I always have to seek help.
It's almost like I'm invisible.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Being single and childless can make a woman feel invisible.
You start to get left out of your friendship groups
when your friends start to couple up and you're the
only single one I noticed when I
with my daughter in her mid twenties, men don't look
at me anymore.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
They look at her. Do you remember the day? You
first felt like that the day you disappeared or are
you feeling more relevant than ever in your forties? Fifties
and sixties. This is 456 club. The show that helps
women in their forties, fifties and sixties, feel seen, heard
and better about everything.
I'm Nelda Jacobs and you will usually find me on
(01:19):
the couch at studio 10 at 10 am from Monday
to Friday. Sometimes you might see a pony on the couch. Oh,
I know. It was so exciting. You went to my
work the other day you went there. I wasn't, I,
I bring your friend to work somewhere else. You were
(01:41):
at my work on studio 10. How was it? You
were fantastic.
I tell you, I was so nervous and it's live TV,
isn't it? You were talking about this podcast? I was
talking about this podcast and you and how much I
loved you. And we talked about all sorts of things
including dryness down there, which was interesting having Tristan your
co-host just have to sit there while the other three
(02:02):
ladies on the couch talked about it. He was just
taking it and then I asked you on the party,
you also talk about being invisible and your reply was, well,
we haven't talked about it yet,
which brings us to today. But yes, we are here
today to talk about feeling invisible. Later in this episode,
we'll hear from women in the 456 club who are
(02:22):
all too familiar with feeling invisible. We'll hear how it
impacts
at them and how they navigated it to take back power.
And we'll hear from Carly Lyon who runs the brand
in New. She specializes in helping women rebrand themselves and
making them feel relevant again. But first, Keith, is this
something you've felt or experienced before
(02:44):
feeling invisible? Look to be honest, not in my forties.
I'm at late forties. Now. 48 I felt quite visible
in my thirties. I definitely felt invisible. I was married
to a high profile sportsman. And, um, you know, let
me tell you when you sort of walked into a
room of chaps at an event or something, I could
(03:04):
have been stood there like in a bikini and people
would have just pushed
me out of the way to talk to my husband.
So invisible that one time when we were at a
stadium and some guys came over and wanted a photo,
one of them sat on me to get closer to
my ex-husband to get the photo. I was like, am
I even here? Oh, my goodness, Keith. I never do
to you. It was just bizarre. I don't know. I,
(03:25):
it made me laugh. I used to sort of think,
oh my gosh, we've got like a real
but 12 o'clock we got two incoming. So I'd be
like you walk into a room though and heads turn.
That's the presence that you have. Oh, do I say
that again? Say it again. Well, my head turns. I really,
because I really tall and I bounce like when I
(03:46):
walk I think you just have, you just look really
cool as you walk in. Like I arrived
as I've just tripped up getting out of the list.
But I like the way you make me sound. Is
that your profession? In your professional life. You're a publicist. Yes.
So does that I feed into that as well. I
think you've hit the nail on the head because the,
my entire career you do have to be invisible. You know,
(04:08):
you're with a superstar or a singer or an actress.
Whoever you're presenting, you do have to be there but
invisible at all times whilst
control. So, yeah. So maybe I just learned the art
of camouflage, which can be a blessing sometimes I know
it can be good, but I'm back out now. Yes,
I'm wearing loud red colors. Tell me, what about you?
(04:30):
Have you ever felt invisible? Well, like you as well
when I was younger. So I'm the youngest of five
girls in my family. So as I was growing up,
I always was
for like somebody always did the speaking for me, I
never actually was called upon to speak. I know that
sounds odd and I was always kind of the cute one,
you know, and so nothing's really expected of the cute
(04:50):
one and everyone else feels seen, but I kind of
feel like I kind of just slipped under the radar,
but now I feel more seen than ever because I'm
sharing opinions and speaking and being looked upon for wisdom,
you know,
I think you're very wise. Yeah, which I think that's
(05:12):
something that comes with age and especially in first nations
culture where you reach a point where you're called auntie.
So I'm called auntie. I'm an auntie now, I didn't
know that. So with that comes a level of respect
that comes with age and lived experience. So for those reasons,
I feel more seen than ever. So, Kath, there's this
(05:34):
unwritten rule and it's become a bit of a joke
that women have got to be 39 or younger to
make it in TV. So we have this joke that
we're forever 39. And I think Anne used it on
the day that you were at studio T S and
we were like 456 club. And she's like, well, I'm
not 48 or something. I mean, she looks absolutely fabulous.
But
(05:54):
I was, and, and I was told that before I
decided to move to Sydney from Perth, I was already,
I think 43 or something. And I was asked by
someone I was getting advice from and he who was
in the industry for a long time, not working at
channel 10, by the way, he said, so, how old
are you? And I said 43 he said, oh, it's
(06:14):
getting a bit old. Um, they say women have to
be 39. And so I was like, oh, wow, I
just experience that, that thing.
And so then I came over and I'm like, looking
around at all the women at channel 10, they're all
like
my age or older and thinking like they're running the network.
These are women who are running the network. And it's like,
excuse me, because all I can see are women in
(06:36):
their absolute prime leading all the conversations that we're having
as a nation, which is fabulous. I mean, even being
part of this podcast is empowering, isn't it? I think?
And it sort of sets the agenda for everyone to
talk about aging because we're all aging and it's actually
not that bad. So, get on board. He sounds like
a dinosaur.
(07:01):
We're gonna be talking to Cathy o'brien who's in her
fifties and a writer and she's going to share with
us her invisibility experiences, Cathy. Do you remember the day?
You first felt invisible?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Look, being a mum, you feel invisible a lot? I
reckon I felt invisible when my son was born. All
of a sudden the focus was on him
and I hastily changed my name from my maiden name
to my married name when I got married. And then
all of a sudden when I had this little baby
(07:34):
in my arms, I was like, oh, hang on. I'm
nobody now. Like I'm just somebody's mum and I'm somebody's
wife and who am I in all of this? So
it probably was like a slow burn 22 years ago
when my son was born
and then my daughters were born three days after my birthday.
(07:56):
And I can remember my mother-in-law saying to me not
long after my twins were born.
Oh, well, I hope you enjoyed this year's birthday because
you'll never have another one to celebrate again. And I
looked at her and I was like, oh, ah, I
don't think so. It's my birthday. So, yeah. Oh,
Speaker 1 (08:17):
listen to someone whose birthday is on Christmas Day. Once
I became a mum, I was like, oh, it's gonna
have to be about the kid for a bit, isn't it?
Why is your birthday on Christmas?
Yes. How did you feel then when your birthdays rolled around?
Just all the gifts on the one day? I love
it because generally it's a day that most people are
happy but Cathy, do you have to remain vigilant that
(08:38):
you don't slip into that sort of losing your identity?
Because when we get married, we're told to take on
our husband's last names, like in a traditional heteronormative sense,
I don't really think, oh, I can retain my name.
I can retain my identity. How do you then reclaim
your
Speaker 2 (08:56):
identity for the last, I don't know, 18 years. I
really didn't. It was a very difficult process. I was
lost in the identity of the family and the identity
of being a mother to three Children, a mother to
twins because that's something different again
and being my husband's wife. And it wasn't really until
(09:21):
I had my breakdown, I guess, with a lot of
work on myself and a lot of support from my
medical team and my mental health team
working out who am I in all of that? And
that kind of morphed into looking for something that I
wanted to do that made me happy in life. And, yeah,
(09:45):
so it's really in the, only in the last kind
of few years, three or four years, maybe that I've
started to think about who am I in my family,
family and who am I in this world? How did
Speaker 1 (09:59):
it feel when you say you felt invisible?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Nothing was about me. Nothing at all was about me.
It was always, if I wanted to go to work,
it was about how can I do this in the
smallest and the quietest possible way that doesn't impact the
family because we needed
(10:23):
me to be there to pick the kids up or
to take them to dance or to run them to
football training or medical appointments or whatever. So losing myself
in all of that, I really didn't think that that
would happen. I thought that I would have a career
and I would balance having a career and being a
(10:45):
mother and you know, being the best friend and being
the best wife and all of those things. And
you know, I'm a total gen X baby. We were
told go to school, get a degree. You can have
a great career, you can have a family, you can
do all of these things, but they left out the
little bit, the little caveat at the end, you can't
(11:08):
have it all at the same time, you can, but
not all at the same time.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Kay and cat, there's one thing that strikes me
out of this and, and is that heteronormative has a
lot to answer for. We slip into gendered roles, don't we?
And societal expectations of us no matter what we're told
exactly what you've said, Cathy, like go and achieve all
your dreams, you know, the world is your oyster. But
when society expects that you will be the primary caregiver of,
(11:36):
you know, your Children and then
potentially aging parents as well. Like you said, you know,
you've got to keep yourself small to be able to
go out and achieve the things that you want. So
that doesn't upset the household too much. I mean, everything
else should be able to fit around you so that
you can go and do these things because it would
make you a better person, which then your Children will
look up to. I think this is wild
Speaker 2 (11:56):
100%. I completely agree with you. No, it's ridiculous to
think that
that so many women think that they need to be
small so that they can not impact the family or
they want to have their career. But how do they
juggle this coming through? That was really, really hard and
trying to get back into the workforce when you've been
(12:19):
out of the workforce for 15 years is ridiculously difficult.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Is that where you notice the age adding to the
invisibility and difficulty of that
Speaker 2 (12:31):
landscape, 100% and the amount of people including recruiters, they say. So,
can you give us a reference? I was like, well,
I can give you my last job, which was in
2006 and this is in 2000 and,
(12:52):
and 18. And they're like, well, that's no
Speaker 1 (12:55):
good but Cathy all those unpaid jobs that you were
doing at home and probably in the school community, you
can't necessarily put that on your CV. Can you? Because
it doesn't really count for anything in the eyes of employers.
It was
Speaker 2 (13:09):
really, really challenging. I did do a lot of volunteer
work with model, both association and one of my
colleagues who I sat on the national board with, she
actually was a referee for me. Ultimately, I did have
to put down my volunteer work. And that was really
hard because it's like, well, can't you just give me
(13:31):
a chance? And they're like, oh, but you're so old,
what have you been doing? It's like, yeah, I know.
But I've been raising humans. Like, that's a big deal, right?
Like
raising a human is a very important job.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I'd love to explore the idea that there is power
in being invisible sometimes.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, 100%. I think that when you
are invisible and when people don't expect anything of you,
people underestimate you and then all of a sudden you'll
do something amazing at work. Or you might do something
with your friends or whatever and everybody has really underestimated
(14:16):
you along the way. So when you're watching, you get to,
I don't know, you get to take a lot more in,
you get to listen, you get to
get all of the input, you get to take all
of that information on board because no-one's expecting anything from
you and they tell you a lot of things as well.
(14:37):
That's what I find. I find that so many people
will come to me and tell me all sorts of
information that probably they shouldn't share with me. Then I
use my powers for good. My little invisibility powers for
good and go oh toddle off and do this or
do that. And,
and you can sometimes have real influence and you know,
(14:58):
you can shape conversations when people don't even really realize
that that's where it came from.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So Sandra is about to join us. Now, she lives
in regional New South Wales and was 56 when she
was made redundant. After a company restructure. Six months later,
she went for her first interview and sadly, this was
the first time she's actually felt invisible. Yes or worthless.
Yeah. Or pass your expiry date. So when have you
(15:32):
felt like that? I had an interview at an accountancy
firm four years ago. Not quite. And during the interview,
they were sort of leading sort of asking questions, you know,
about how long do you think you'll stay in?
I thought, hm, shouldn't really ask these sort of questions.
But anyhow, I sort of answered. I said, oh, well,
you know, I usually give a good five years or,
or something and maybe even longer. And then when the
(15:54):
person rang to say that I didn't get the job,
they said they wanted someone younger because I was the
same age as the person I was going to be
eventually replacing and would be retiring at the same age
at the same time.
And I thought, well, when this person knew me, I
considered him a family friend to one of the other
girls on the interview panel, went to school with me.
(16:15):
So she would have known how old I was. Why
did you waste my time interviewing me and then telling
me I was too old Sandra. How old were you
at the time? Not quite 56. Oh, you were a baby.
The thing is right. Ok. Let's ask you, what were
(16:36):
you angry about?
Sort of been written off that someone might think that
I didn't know when I was going to retire. So
they sort of made up presumption that I was going
to retire at the same time. This other person was.
And I thought, well, who's to say I'm not gonna
work until I'm 66. So I'm older. I wouldn't even
call you middle aged care change in you at that age. Funny,
(17:01):
you should say that I've had one
excellent. The thing that I was angry about was that
when you ask people, you know, how long you've been
in your job for or whatever? Like, and I've been
at channel 10 for 23 years. It's, it's a really
long time. I started to get embarrassed because I was
in the same job for such a long time because
everybody
moves on after a, just a number of years and
(17:23):
younger people have career changes after like, five years. So
for them to, like, I'm offended on your behalf that
they would expect that you wouldn't be in the job
for very long because you go off and retire. Yeah,
I mean, I thought, well, no one knows exactly when
they're going to, like, depends on your health and circumstance too,
but I certainly had no plans of retiring before 60
(17:44):
and I'm 60 now and I don't have any
plans to retire before 63 still. So I could have
done easily five years, eight years, probably. But anyway, they
decided that because they were wanting someone to replace this
person who was the same age. Well, don't damn will
interview me then. You know how old I am? I
feel like we're gonna have a Julia Roberts moment towards
(18:04):
the end of this conversation with the, you going back
in the shop with your bags going big mistake feeling
that coming.
Did this knock your confidence? So when you had to
apply for a job after that? Did it knock your
confidence or did you think, hey, screw you. Well, I
thought most people you're going to have an interview with
won't have a clue how old you are anyway. Unless
(18:25):
you advertise it. It's just that it was some people
I happen to know in this case, I got some
temp work at the local hospital and then I was
there for three years. And did you feel visible?
Those jobs? Yes. Yes, I felt no problem at all.
I like that. Now, you've just turned 60 and five
months ago you started a new career in an industry
(18:46):
you've always wanted to work in. This is your Julia
Roberts moment. Sandra. How does it feel? Amazing? Amazing. Yes. Travel. Oh,
so good company who does tours in the Outback? And
I do their rooming list. So for all the tours
that they do, if you want a bed, your name
needs to be on that rooming list. So, um, very busy,
(19:07):
very busy and no retirement in sight. Absolutely not. So, Sandra,
I really hope this hasn't happened to other people. But
what is your advice to others who do experience this
sort of a thing? I'd just say keep trying, essentially,
keep trying. Not everybody thinks like that. Obviously just
(19:28):
keep hanging in there. I always think up comeback lines
way after the fact. Is there anything that you would
like to say to them if you were in the
room with them again. Now that you've had some time
to think about, we're gonna have to beat this. I'd say, well,
I went to school with you. Why did you interview
me and we've been family friends for 30 years. Why
(19:49):
did you interview me when you thought I was too old?
I'd put it back on them. That's fabulous. And also
look at how it's ended. I'm a big believer in
the universe. Like you've ended up doing something that you've
always wanted to do. Love that, love that. I hope
one day you can turn the tables on them, Sandra
and give them some of their own medicine.
I mean, we like to take revenge, but I feel
(20:12):
like we don't mind a little bit of revenge doing.
I hope sometimes they might have some trouble or some
loved ones who might want some trouble. But they'll be like, oh, yeah. No,
I'm sorry. There's nothing for you. Computers, Sandra. Thank you
so much for taking the time to share your story
with us. No, no worries. Thanks for having me.
How much do we love Sandra? She was fantastic. She
(20:35):
was fantastic. I loved her. But also just to have
such a positive outlook on life and think, you know, well,
you didn't deserve me and I won in the end. Yeah. Well,
she's having a great time now. She's into a career
that she never thought she'd have that she wants brilliant.
And that office can remain miserable. But, yeah, living her
best life. Exactly. Here's to more Sandra.
(21:08):
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Now we're joined by Rose from Melbourne. She's 43. She's
single and doesn't have Children and that's why she feels invisible. Rose.
Have you ever felt invisible? Oh, probably like the last
(22:15):
10 years for me because I'm single, no kids. So
I kind of don't fit in with my friends and
then
with people at work. So yeah, what do you mean?
Usually you hear parents say it's the other way around
that as soon as they have kids, they stop being
invited to things by their single friends or you know,
(22:35):
they kind of overlooked for things because they have kids.
You're finding it the opposite when they coupled up. It
wasn't too bad. It was just sort of, I guess
more
once the last friend sort of got married and then, yeah,
it felt outside that because they would all catch up
without me. And then I find out later and then
once I started having kids, so I just found out
(22:58):
that they were pregnant a lot after the fact of
everyone else. So. Yeah. Wow. That must have been hurtful.
It's kind of like lining up for a royal show
ride and you have to go two by two because
you are on your own. You can't ride. No, you can't.
Oh, that's rough. Ah, I mean, I've, I've experienced that
(23:18):
certainly as a single person, you know, that friends have
had dinner parties and get togethers instead of being the
fifth or seventh chair. I've just seen on Instagram. So Rose. I,
I certainly know how that feels. Are you left wondering
why is this happening to me?
Yeah, because I don't really like to bring it up
because then I think, oh, maybe it's just, I'm reading
too much into it or, like, I remember talking to
(23:40):
someone about it and they're like, well, they probably just
feel awkward having me there as a single person. I
was like, ok.
Wow, that's an interesting way of looking at it. So Rose,
you're feeling invisible from people. You know, but what about people?
You don't know, what's it like when you walk into
a room or you, you know, you're ordering something at
(24:01):
a restaurant or, you know, you, you're at a public place,
do you feel invisible then?
No, not then. But if you're gone to something specific or,
and then you get asked around, you know, do you
have kids like that? Whole conversation starts right. And then
you go, no. And then I've had people at some
places just sort of turn around and then go and
talk to someone else. You need
(24:21):
my friends, nobody likes their Children. I know everyone will
be really happy to hang out with your rose. And
then yeah, so it can be a little awkward, I guess.
And then there's, you know, a lot of, I guess
in especially social media, you just see a lot of
things around moms and
how important their role is and that type of thing
(24:42):
and then you just feel like things that you do
aren't so important. And I mean, and you hear any politicians,
for example, like every budget speech, working families, working families,
working families. So I'm sitting here going please have inclusive
language around. It's not just working families, single people that
are being hurt or couples. So, you know, there's
impacting the economy that aren't just for a particular section
(25:06):
of our society. That is so true. That's a really
good point. But you sound like someone who's really positive
and that you're not just sort of sat in there. So,
what are the other ways that you've maybe taken your
power back?
So, I got a couple of friends who, um, have
either got older kids or, you know, there's a couple
who don't have any, you know, they chose not to
kind of just then look at things and I think, well,
(25:28):
some people, they're just coming from their own perspective, right?
Like
they're in that particular mode of, you know, being a
mother and they look at that and go, well, this
is the most important thing that they're probably doing and
it's probably the language that people use. What would you
say to someone who's listening, who might now want to
sort of change the way they speak to some of
their friends who are in a similar situation to you,
(25:51):
I think just be a bit more inclusive
in it and not assume that because they don't have
kids that they're off having this massive, wonderful, beautiful life
because at the end of the day, we still have
to work, we have our mortgages. Like I haven't had
a holiday in years, but even pre COVID, right? And
that's just because you have
(26:11):
commitments and you've got work commitments. So, so like, you know,
you're going out every single night in a bar, living
it up. So just being inclusive with your friends and
reach out to them. So when I was in my
early twenties. So I nearly died. Like I had an
antic reaction
and I made it to hospital just in time and
I was really good. Like about the, the dying part,
(26:34):
I reconciled that in the moment, which was fine. And
then it's just recently that I thought what's really my
purpose because if I died in that moment, it's not
like there are Children who would never have been born.
So there's not like a, you know, like that sliding
doors moment. And I just thought, oh, well, because that
(26:54):
whole motherhood part that people talk about and how it's
so important. And I thought, oh, is that meaning that
my life is not worth anything? So sorry, I'm just
a bit. It makes me a little bit sad
when I think about it. It can be difficult when
everyone just talks about this
(27:15):
life that they have and how awesome it is and
these Children that they have
and then when you don't have that, that's powerful stuff rose.
You know, and I think mothers don't always talk about
how it isn't all the things that we're told it
will be. And sometimes it's difficult to disassociate yourself from
this role when you're also, you know, a person in
(27:35):
your own. Right? I suppose.
So. I think there is a lot of Hallmark moments
around things like motherhood when the reality, either way, whether
you are or not is, is very layered, isn't it? Yeah.
All the emotions that you're feeling are so valid. We
really appreciate you being so open. Yeah. And being vulnerable
because this stuff's not easy to talk about. No, that's ok.
(27:58):
I think what was most interesting about Rose is that
she felt invisible amongst people that she knows that she's
known for a long time and as soon as he
turns a certain age and they grow apart by the sounds.
But just because of life,
we're joined by Carly Lyon. She's a personal brand coach
(28:19):
and runs the brand in you Carlie. You work with
women in their forties and beyond every day. So what
would you say are some of the most common concerns
people are facing in this era of their lives.
So I'm going to answer that with a story. So
a client of mine that I was working with had
just gone through a bit of a career change and
(28:41):
she was wanting to work on her personal brand. And
we were talking about all the different ways that she
might put herself out there. And she said to me, well,
I'm almost turning 50 and the reality is nobody wants
to look at or listen to an old lady.
And that to me showed where her mindset was at.
And that is really the perfect example of what a
(29:05):
lot of these women, you know, 40 plus the biggest
struggle when it comes to them being visible and being
seen that is really where it starts, Carlie. Is it
her that can't look at herself or is that her
perception of other people not being able to look at?
What is it 100%? So it, to me, what that
showed me was she had this fundamental belief that now
(29:28):
that she was over a certain age that she didn't
look good enough or
that she didn't have anything good enough or nobody would
want to hear her speak because she was of a
certain age. So that was 100% her own thoughts and feelings.
And the thing is there is a thing in psychology
called confirmation bias. We like to prove ourselves, right?
(29:48):
So at the end of the day, if you have
a fundamental belief that oh, now that I'm over 40
50 60 I'm too old to be seen and heard,
then you are going to be looking for and experiencing
things that confirm that it's not to say that there
aren't external forces. So 100%
ageism may exist, there are certain stereotypes that exist, you know,
(30:12):
media is infatuated with youth and things like this. Like
this podcast, this helps to counteract those external forces. But
a lot of the work that I do and really
focus on, which I think is ultimately more empowering for
the individual is the internal focus. Well, how do you
coach women into feeling visible again?
(30:33):
So I have four kind of top tips. So firstly,
I think it's about acting your spirit, not your age.
So I have a perfect example of this. A friend
of mine had a grandmother who's now sadly passed away.
We affectionately called her Nana Anna. Right up until her nineties.
She dressed impeccably. She'd walk into a room, she'd command attention.
(30:55):
She had just this beautiful air of grace and elegance
about her. And it really did start with her own
opinion of herself. Her, her, it was her energy that
was attractive, not just the physicality. So act your spirit,
not your age, lean into that
forge a standout style. I have a client who's in
(31:15):
her sixties. She's the CEO of a very large company.
She has pink hair and she wears the most amazing
pra glasses. She walks into the room, she just owns
it and she's dressed in a way that helps her
really be seen. So I think forging a style like
the beautiful jacket you've got today.
There's no way you could be invisible today. That is fine.
(31:46):
It's amazing. So, you know, leaning into that, really using
your clothing to show up and to be seen and
perhaps that starts to change as you go through the
different decades and as you get older,
I always say to my clients invest in a profile image,
a digital profile image. And here is why it's really
(32:07):
important in the world that we live in that you
have a digital presence. So anyone who's 40 plus we
didn't grow up with social media. So there's probably still
a mindset of, oh, maybe I'll do a bit of
social media. That's not how the world is anymore. There's
the physical world, there's the digital world,
but both of the real world and you need to
be visible in both. The linkedin world is really like,
(32:30):
it is actually sorted me out in the linkedin sketch.
You got to be there. And I think when you
invest not, I think I know when you invest in
a great portrait chart and research shows that this is
really important.
(32:51):
It will make you feel more confident in that online space.
And if you think about it, that profile shop, perhaps
you'll use it no more than five years. You don't
want anything. You can't have a profile
that's 10 years old MC events and they still use
ones that are like over 10 years old. Ok? You
(33:14):
need to take 456 club vote. Lovely. Just cut me out.
I've got, I've got a serious attitude in that photo too.
Cut me out.
I love it. I love it, but it's a worthwhile investment.
And if you run the numbers, you know, it's a
worthwhile investment. That's all I'll say. And then lastly create
(33:36):
a multi age network. So do not only spend time
with people of your own age
when I was younger, I loved hanging out with people
who are older because I loved the wisdom that they
would give, as you get older, it's important to hang
out with people that are younger because it keeps you
tapped into not only youth culture, but they will bring
(33:57):
out a different side of yourself. If you're always spending
time with them,
women or men in the same age bracket, as much
as you've got that sense of, uh, we know what
we're all going through. I think it's important to have
younger friends to perhaps give you a different perspective of
yourself and you shortcuts on your phone as well.
(34:18):
I always my camera, the long way you go in,
you unlock your phone, you go to the camera icon,
you can just love it. There's one button you can
press when it's locked. Do we all know this? Listen, I,
I only recently knew about the torch. So don't look
at me,
Richard Wilkins showed me. I mean, he could, he definitely,
(34:40):
he could definitely listen to in the,
oh my God. But I'm all for that. I've got
a mentor who's, you know, I think she's late sixties
now and I love what she sort of, it's gold,
what she said to me. And it's funny when you
were talking about your client with the Prada glasses and
the pink hair when I talked to my mentor about
this space because she was in corporate for a long time,
(35:02):
you know, and I said, did you ever feel invisible?
And she said no, because I specifically dressed in a
really strong way that was sort of like, you know,
because she was up the front, always kind of leading
the discussions and I was like, great, cool. So I
will stick with a red lip. You've got it works
on you, you talk about branding in business. Ok, because
there'll be a lot of women sort of, you know,
(35:23):
listening in that space. What do you mean by rebrand
and how, how do women do it?
Yeah. So when I talk about branding, I always talk
about the four PS. So you've got your promise, packaging
position and promotion. So what's your promise? What do you
want people to know you for and, and know about you.
What's your packaging? This is where it comes into your styling,
(35:43):
your social media sites. What's the message that you're putting
out there when it comes to positioning?
Who are you spending time with, who's in your network?
You know, who are you aligning yourself with? Where are
you working? Uh where are you showing up? And this
can work in a professional sense and in a personal sense,
if you're wanting to reinvent your personal life, this also applies.
(36:06):
You want to change your life, change the things you do,
the places you go and the people you spend time
with
and then the promotion piece is that visibility piece. How
are you putting yourself out there? How are you making
sure that you're seen and heard by the people that
actually matter.
You gave me this great advice years ago when we
were talking about social media and linkedin and anywhere that
(36:27):
you promote yourself, you know, we were talking about, oh,
but sometimes you, you might have a great image of
yourself or something, but you don't want to put it
out there because you're like, oh, what are people gonna think?
And then we nutted it down to who are those people?
And it's usually maybe someone you worked with once. So
it was a bit of a bully or like you
go to these three people that we're not very nice
to you. And you're like, what will Jane think from
(36:47):
a
Exactly. And it's like Jane doesn't stop doing anything because
of me. Does she. And so that really years ago
empowered me to just go if I believe in it.
And it's true and it's authentic and it's something I
want to share, whether it's life stuff or work stuff,
put it out there 100%. This whole conversation. I've been
picturing the devil wears Prada, is that the person, the person,
(37:12):
but that is
like the sharp dress up. Everything is so stylish, but
you don't have to be harsh about it. Like sometimes
when we think of an assertive older woman who knows
what they want, who's stepping into their power. That is
kind of the image that we see. But we need
to stop thinking along those lines 100% and there's no
one definition of powerful. There's no one style that's powerful.
(37:35):
So your style, your packaging, your promise, it might be
really relax
and down to earth it. What matters is that you
come at everything with a certain level of intentionality. What
is that message? What are you standing for? And what's
the deer that you want people to walk away with
when they meet you? What's the story that you want
(37:56):
them to, to experience? We all have clothes that we
keep for a special occasion, don't we? Why can't we
just wear them every day? Isn't that beautiful? Why do
we have
the good China for a special? Why can't we eat
on the good China on the good China since COVID,
since COVID, nothing's been the best. So you put a
good frock on with sneakers, you just, and you just
(38:18):
rockets has transformed everything, hasn't it? You can wear sneakers
with everything you can in the bedroom a bit awkward
with hi armies when you go to bed, get them
off first, take your shoes off. But I I
here for, don't keep anything for bear. Yes. 100% 100%.
All right. So what's the best advice you've got for
(38:39):
women who are listening, who do feel invisible, take the
steps that we've spoken about today and really look at,
sit with yourself and think about what is the mindset?
What are those beliefs that decisions that you've made about
getting older, that perhaps you need to reframe and change.
And that
to me is the most important step because if you
(39:02):
start to change the way you're thinking about getting older
and what that means and this new form of visibility
that to me has such a huge ripple effect in
all areas of your life. So that would be the
first and most important step to take. I love that.
I love that too. I've loved this entire chat. It
makes so much sense because self confidence is the best
(39:25):
kind of confidence because if you're confident in yourself, then
other people can be 100%. It's so true and we
need one another, which is why I love what you're
doing with this show.
We need to change the narrative together collectively. So the
more that women do put themselves out there and make
themselves visible, it will continue and that narrative will change.
(39:48):
So it's, yeah, you're definitely contributing to that. I'm gonna
have to write some of this down. Yeah, I feel
like there's a lot of post it note and stick
on my laptop. Carli. Thank you so much. Thank you
for having me.
How did you feel about Carlie? Oh, well, listen, I'm
just crazily writing everything down. It's just post to heaven
(40:10):
over here. What about so many things? I think it
was a reminder about what we feel on the inside
is reflected in what people see on the outside and
it's not about being beautiful and it's about how you
carry yourself. Absolutely. It's like sitting up straight and smiling sometimes,
isn't it basic stuff that you just go? I feel
better about myself. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
(40:35):
Well, we're at that time again in the episode where
we give recommendations. Nelda, what do you have for us
this week? Well, after listening to Carlie, I really resonated
with what she said about wearing clothes that you feel
fabulous in almost reinventing yourself a little bit. Like stepping
out like
full of confidence. I went to Paris recently. Can you
(40:59):
name drop a city? Like I went to Paris recently
just for the week. My daughter was over there. Now
I live by Cary through your social media and she
was like mom, I'm going to be in Paris, come
and meet me and I was like, yes, she also said,
don't expect to have all of your meals with me
or talk to me the whole time, wasn't it too?
They were guidelines.
(41:20):
So anyway, what I packed knowing that I had a
limited time in Paris was all of my best clothes.
I packed all my best clothes and she incidentally had
done the same. She was in Europe for a lot
longer than I. So she already had her best clothes.
But I was there for
five days. I curated my wardrobe, best clothes every day
(41:40):
when I stepped out of my room I knew I
looked good and I felt so good. And the thing
about being overseas or somewhere new is no-one knows who
you are.
No-one has a story about you. You haven't kind of
stepped out already thinking that you are invisible. So go
somewhere somewhere fresh, mix it up. Take all of your
(42:01):
best things. Love this. It's all about our best, isn't it?
This episode so visible even if it's in the lift
in the mirror,
that's when it started for me, you know, taking selfies
in the lift. Actually finding out the best way to
take a selfie in the lift to tip the tip
the down lights. I always end up with a down light.
I look like I'm in a horror movie. I always
(42:21):
go to smile at the camera thinking that the reflection
is going to make contact with my eyes. But the
best thing to do is look down at your phone. Oh,
is it? Yeah. Apparently I don't know for me or
what
gonna try. I'm gonna try a bit of that in the,
see what we can pull out. What's your recommendation? Well,
after last week and obviously the disaster that was passing
someone and ending it was red lipstick everywhere. He and I,
(42:44):
I have been road testing some Priceline red lipstick stains.
They do not come off. Let me tell you, I mean,
I've only been kissing my hands sadly
a loser. I admitted that on a podcast maybe we
edit that out if I'm ever to go on a
date again. No. So it keep it in. So that's
my tip. I'm trying. The stains are the stains good.
(43:05):
They're really good. And there is a red for everyone
in Priceline because some people say to me, I couldn't
wear a red. I'm like, listen, there's a red out
there for every face.
Thank you for listening to this episode of 456 Club.
If you loved the show, then make sure you rate
and review and share it with your friends and join
(43:26):
us next week when we talk about parenting your aging parents.
The executive producer of 456 Club is Talisa Baza with
audio editing by Madeleine Joan
and we'll see you next week. Bye bye. We know
that everybody's experience in their forties, fifties and sixties looks
and feels different. So we want to hear from you,
(43:48):
head to the show notes and complete a short survey
and to thank you for your time, you could win
a $50 voucher.
This episode of 456 Club was made in partnership with
Priceline Pharmacy for expert advice and all your beauty health
(44:08):
and wellness needs. Visit Priceline Pharmacy in store or online
at Priceline dot com dot A U.
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