June 19, 2025 • 8 mins
Why aren’t the CEOs of Australia’s biggest companies the highest paid?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Ask Fear and Greed, where we answer questions
about business, investing, economics, politics and more. Are Michael Thompson
and Hello Sean Ale.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello Michael Sean.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Today's question is it's quite a topical one. There's a
lot of talk at the moment about CEO pay and
so the question today is why aren't the CEOs of
Australia's biggest companies the highest paid?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, that would make sense, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I mean, it's logical, right, because I mean, and we've
had the research in the last twenty four hours come
from the Australian Council of Superannuation Investors who every year
take a really good look at CEO pay across the
ASX two hundred and basically put it out there for
everyone to see.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yes, look it's actually not logical. We laugh. So should
Commonwealth Banks Matt common CEO, biggest company on the boss,
should he receive most money? I actually think that people
should do best, the people whose companies do best, whose
remuneration is aligned with the company and its share price performance.
(01:04):
Having said that, the number one guy, Australia based guy
called Victor Herrero from La Visa Holdings. He took on
nearly forty million dollars. Lavisa Holdings isn't even a top
one hundred company.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
No, No, it would be hard to also argue against
Matt Common in theory, considering that that company just keeps
on going in terms of the share price climbing and
climbing and climbing and climbing. He would think at least
if not number one, then he might be number two
or three, or four or five or anywhere in the
top ten.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
He's eighteen. So in a sense, I think that these
league tables, I like the AXI one because it actually
talks about realize pay, take on pay, and it's a
good way to compare. Now Robert Thompson, who's the sea
of News Corp, New York based, He's realized pay forty
two million dollars. If you compare that to let's say,
(01:58):
I mean over the year News corps total shareholder return
was forty six percent. Take it over five years, though,
so you can actually see how much they're growing the company.
So Robert Thompson over five years eighteen percent, forty two
million dollars. News cop isn't a big company anymore. It
used to be massive. It's not anymore. Lavisa Holdings Victor Herrera.
(02:18):
We've told him his total shareholder return twenty seven percent,
so he's actually made a lot of money for shareholders
each year over that time. But is anyone worth forty
million dollars, I don't know now. The next on the
list is Shamara Wickrameni Yaka. What the boss of mcquarie
(02:41):
has always been really well paid, her predecessor, same deal,
and it has grown continuing. So Mcquarie is a top
ten company. It's growing over the last five years about
thirteen percent per annum. So for her to get paid
a lot, whilst it is slightly obscene, at least she's
sort of somewhere near deserving it, particularly because Mcquarie, as
(03:04):
opposed to the other four big banks, it's a global bank.
It operates in global markets. So to get a good CEO,
you actually need someone who is a global CEO, and
so Shamara Rahmona Yaka fits into that category. The number
four is Goodman Group's Greg Goodman. He holds a bunch
of shares twenty percent per year return for shareholders. That's
(03:26):
a pretty good return. He founded that company. I can't
have less gripes about people who find company who founded
companies and get paid.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
A lot as the founders of fear and greed exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Then there is, I mean, the guy called Mick Farrell,
who's ResMed US based. Don't you think you love Mick
Farrell being US based? The most Australian name ever, probably
the most Irish name ever, but we'll take that. He's next.
Then Mike Henry at BHP Group. You know, nine million
dollars the shareholder return of that eleven percent. It's a lot,
(04:01):
but badge piece of global company, says res men. You
know we are Tinto's yak of Stousholme's in there. The
one I think that's really sticks out is Chris Ellison
at Mineral Resources. Now this is his pay for the
last financial year and the total shareholder return for Mineral
Resources in that year was minus twenty four percent, Yet
(04:25):
he was paid fifteen million dollars now over the five
years because better be fair here it is actually one
of the best performing stocks. Is up to thirty three
percent each year, but last year forty million dollars in
the ship ice went back for twenty four percent. I
don't mind making money when they're doing well, but they
shouldn't be making money when they're not doing well.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But would part of that perhaps long term bonuses for instance.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
But yeah, I mean this is kind of take home
pay though this is a realized benefit, so they may
be bonuses that he's taken home in the year, so
that is part of it. But there's a lot of
money for a stock going back.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, it certainly is. And I just still can't
I can't get over the fact that Matt Common is
there at number eighteen on the list.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I'm standing nine million bucks. Don't feel sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I'm not feeling sorry for him, but I just you
know what, I just like I just like to win
and I would like to see him up the top
of the list.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I just say, in the top twenty. He is the
only big bank person in that top twenty, Which.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Is interesting actually, isn't it, Because you always have this
perception of the big four bankers being the best paid
in the country, right the big four CEOs.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Definitely not and it's not. The banking in Australia is
a local industry. Look at that some of these top
so we're talking about Shamara, remember Yak at Macquarie Group
News Corporation is a bit the same ResMed is definitely
a global group. The miners fit in their BHP rio.
When you're in a global market for CEOs and the
(05:53):
Mike Henry Yuckutt Stouse Home aren't Australian born and bred,
you know, and they're running the biggest miners, then you
don't have to pay up for it. I think that's okay.
But if you're in a banking industry, which is very local,
you don't. Main Z's just got Matos who has just
come in. But mostly we've had Australian CEOs there, so
it's not so much for a global market.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Massive job, isn't it though? Being a CEO of one
of these companies, especially when you are something like Commonwealth
Bank and you have a lot of employees, a big
Australian employer, it's a big responsibility.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It is, and they would have to absolutely live these jobs.
And if you're I'll pick mego nail from Woodside. Woodside
is always being criticized for its efforts around renewables. I
think it'd be really hard. Now I don't know her
and she has to live this every day. I think
(06:48):
it'll be really hard. Do you think of the supermarket
CEOs and the former boss of Woolies who quit because
it just.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Had enough, you know, Brad Banduci.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, and Brad Banducci is a really good CEO in
many respects. Obviously he had a bit of a blop
on four corners. Yeah, walked out. That was the end
of it. But part of me understands that because the
pressure these people are under.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, and they're very public jobs, very public jobs. Though,
it is good to see the fact that the CEO pay,
the average CEO pay is now what fifty.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Five times that the pay of the average worker instead
of the average worker average worker pay. I don't know
who the average worker is, but the average worker pay, Yeah,
fifty five times down from seventy seven times ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
It's still a lot, but I mean, seventy seven fields obscene.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
There is I mean, in our interview that we did
this morning with Ed John from AXI, the trend is
your friend, Michael. Even when it comes to a muneration pay,
so you know, the cost of getting rid of someone
is less. The disparity between the average worker rate and
CEO pay is kind of less. The even the disparity
(07:57):
between the top and the bottom companies, it is less.
I don't know the it's good or bad thing that one,
but we're kind of heading in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, and look, this is probably the kind of thing
that you're going to have an opinion on, right And
if you do actually have have a comment an opinion
on this, get in touch, send us a note via
the website, go to Fear and Greed dot com dot
au and let us know what you think, or any
of the social media platforms, because this is one that
should probably think that I've said something that is completely ridiculous.
You will disagree and think that Matt Common doesn't need
(08:23):
to be anywhere near the top ten for instance. Yeah,
but I mean, get in touch. We would love to
hear from you. Likewise, if you've got a question that
you would like us to tackle on, ask Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Thank you, Sean, thank you, Michael Thompson.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And this was Ask Fear and Greed.
Welcome to Ask Fear and Greed, where we answer questions
about business, investing, economics, politics and more. Are Michael Thompson
and Hello Sean Ale.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hello Michael Sean.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Today's question is it's quite a topical one. There's a
lot of talk at the moment about CEO pay and
so the question today is why aren't the CEOs of
Australia's biggest companies the highest paid?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well, that would make sense, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I mean, it's logical, right, because I mean, and we've
had the research in the last twenty four hours come
from the Australian Council of Superannuation Investors who every year
take a really good look at CEO pay across the
ASX two hundred and basically put it out there for
everyone to see.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yes, look it's actually not logical. We laugh. So should
Commonwealth Banks Matt common CEO, biggest company on the boss,
should he receive most money? I actually think that people
should do best, the people whose companies do best, whose
remuneration is aligned with the company and its share price performance.
(01:04):
Having said that, the number one guy, Australia based guy
called Victor Herrero from La Visa Holdings. He took on
nearly forty million dollars. Lavisa Holdings isn't even a top
one hundred company.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
No, No, it would be hard to also argue against
Matt Common in theory, considering that that company just keeps
on going in terms of the share price climbing and
climbing and climbing and climbing. He would think at least
if not number one, then he might be number two
or three, or four or five or anywhere in the
top ten.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
He's eighteen. So in a sense, I think that these
league tables, I like the AXI one because it actually
talks about realize pay, take on pay, and it's a
good way to compare. Now Robert Thompson, who's the sea
of News Corp, New York based, He's realized pay forty
two million dollars. If you compare that to let's say,
(01:58):
I mean over the year News corps total shareholder return
was forty six percent. Take it over five years, though,
so you can actually see how much they're growing the company.
So Robert Thompson over five years eighteen percent, forty two
million dollars. News cop isn't a big company anymore. It
used to be massive. It's not anymore. Lavisa Holdings Victor Herrera.
(02:18):
We've told him his total shareholder return twenty seven percent,
so he's actually made a lot of money for shareholders
each year over that time. But is anyone worth forty
million dollars, I don't know now. The next on the
list is Shamara Wickrameni Yaka. What the boss of mcquarie
(02:41):
has always been really well paid, her predecessor, same deal,
and it has grown continuing. So Mcquarie is a top
ten company. It's growing over the last five years about
thirteen percent per annum. So for her to get paid
a lot, whilst it is slightly obscene, at least she's
sort of somewhere near deserving it, particularly because Mcquarie, as
(03:04):
opposed to the other four big banks, it's a global bank.
It operates in global markets. So to get a good CEO,
you actually need someone who is a global CEO, and
so Shamara Rahmona Yaka fits into that category. The number
four is Goodman Group's Greg Goodman. He holds a bunch
of shares twenty percent per year return for shareholders. That's
(03:26):
a pretty good return. He founded that company. I can't
have less gripes about people who find company who founded
companies and get paid.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
A lot as the founders of fear and greed exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Then there is, I mean, the guy called Mick Farrell,
who's ResMed US based. Don't you think you love Mick
Farrell being US based? The most Australian name ever, probably
the most Irish name ever, but we'll take that. He's next.
Then Mike Henry at BHP Group. You know, nine million
dollars the shareholder return of that eleven percent. It's a lot,
(04:01):
but badge piece of global company, says res men. You
know we are Tinto's yak of Stousholme's in there. The
one I think that's really sticks out is Chris Ellison
at Mineral Resources. Now this is his pay for the
last financial year and the total shareholder return for Mineral
Resources in that year was minus twenty four percent, Yet
(04:25):
he was paid fifteen million dollars now over the five
years because better be fair here it is actually one
of the best performing stocks. Is up to thirty three
percent each year, but last year forty million dollars in
the ship ice went back for twenty four percent. I
don't mind making money when they're doing well, but they
shouldn't be making money when they're not doing well.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But would part of that perhaps long term bonuses for instance.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
But yeah, I mean this is kind of take home
pay though this is a realized benefit, so they may
be bonuses that he's taken home in the year, so
that is part of it. But there's a lot of
money for a stock going back.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, it certainly is. And I just still can't
I can't get over the fact that Matt Common is
there at number eighteen on the list.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I'm standing nine million bucks. Don't feel sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I'm not feeling sorry for him, but I just you
know what, I just like I just like to win
and I would like to see him up the top
of the list.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I just say, in the top twenty. He is the
only big bank person in that top twenty, Which.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Is interesting actually, isn't it, Because you always have this
perception of the big four bankers being the best paid
in the country, right the big four CEOs.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Definitely not and it's not. The banking in Australia is
a local industry. Look at that some of these top
so we're talking about Shamara, remember Yak at Macquarie Group
News Corporation is a bit the same ResMed is definitely
a global group. The miners fit in their BHP rio.
When you're in a global market for CEOs and the
(05:53):
Mike Henry Yuckutt Stouse Home aren't Australian born and bred,
you know, and they're running the biggest miners, then you
don't have to pay up for it. I think that's okay.
But if you're in a banking industry, which is very local,
you don't. Main Z's just got Matos who has just
come in. But mostly we've had Australian CEOs there, so
it's not so much for a global market.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Massive job, isn't it though? Being a CEO of one
of these companies, especially when you are something like Commonwealth
Bank and you have a lot of employees, a big
Australian employer, it's a big responsibility.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It is, and they would have to absolutely live these jobs.
And if you're I'll pick mego nail from Woodside. Woodside
is always being criticized for its efforts around renewables. I
think it'd be really hard. Now I don't know her
and she has to live this every day. I think
(06:48):
it'll be really hard. Do you think of the supermarket
CEOs and the former boss of Woolies who quit because
it just.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Had enough, you know, Brad Banduci.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, and Brad Banducci is a really good CEO in
many respects. Obviously he had a bit of a blop
on four corners. Yeah, walked out. That was the end
of it. But part of me understands that because the
pressure these people are under.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, and they're very public jobs, very public jobs. Though,
it is good to see the fact that the CEO pay,
the average CEO pay is now what fifty.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Five times that the pay of the average worker instead
of the average worker average worker pay. I don't know
who the average worker is, but the average worker pay, Yeah,
fifty five times down from seventy seven times ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
It's still a lot, but I mean, seventy seven fields obscene.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
There is I mean, in our interview that we did
this morning with Ed John from AXI, the trend is
your friend, Michael. Even when it comes to a muneration pay,
so you know, the cost of getting rid of someone
is less. The disparity between the average worker rate and
CEO pay is kind of less. The even the disparity
(07:57):
between the top and the bottom companies, it is less.
I don't know the it's good or bad thing that one,
but we're kind of heading in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, and look, this is probably the kind of thing
that you're going to have an opinion on, right And
if you do actually have have a comment an opinion
on this, get in touch, send us a note via
the website, go to Fear and Greed dot com dot
au and let us know what you think, or any
of the social media platforms, because this is one that
should probably think that I've said something that is completely ridiculous.
You will disagree and think that Matt Common doesn't need
(08:23):
to be anywhere near the top ten for instance. Yeah,
but I mean, get in touch. We would love to
hear from you. Likewise, if you've got a question that
you would like us to tackle on, ask Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Thank you, Sean, thank you, Michael Thompson.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And this was Ask Fear and Greed.
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