The Three Brains: Decision-Making and Personal Change with Christoffel Sneijder

Alka Sharma welcomes Christoffel Sneijder to discuss understanding human behavior through a multidisciplinary lens. They delve into the concept of the three brains: gut, heart, and head, and explore gender differences in decision-making. Christoffel emphasizes the role of gut instinct and how aligning the three brains leads to successful decisions and personal change. They discuss overcoming beliefs and trauma, consistency in change, and the inspiration behind Christoffel's approach. The conversation covers empathy, the future of human behavior studies, and the nature versus nurture debate in leadership. They also address human behavior in the AI era, critical thinking, and resources authored by Christoffel, concluding with audience appreciation.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Hello, everyone, and welcome.
Welcome to another episode of asking expertspodcast.
We are grateful to have each and every one ofyou who tune in week in and week out to listen,
learn, and grow.
In today's episode, we have an amazing guest.
We have Christofal Schneider.

(00:24):
He is joining from the the The Netherlands andfrom Madrid.
And, you know, I wanna share with you today'sconversation.
It's truly gonna be a very insightful becausewe're we're gonna be talking about, you know,
the innovation of science, the frontier ofhuman behavior.
And so Christofelm, he is a human behaviorexpert.

(00:48):
He is he brings together a global perspectivewhereby he is a visiting professor in Madrid
and also George Town University in Qatar.
And Christopher truly has justmultidisciplinary, you know, just amazing as to

(01:12):
what he is doing right now in the frontier ofhuman science, human behavior.
And so in this conversation, we are gonna beexploring the innovative insights and the
practical wisdom Christofau has gathered bothwhen it comes to science, culture, and
education.

(01:32):
So I'm excited.
I know you are excited too.
So get ready to have a deep dive into thefrontier of science and real world impact.
Christofel, we wanna give you a warm welcomewelcome to to the show.
Thank you so much, Olga, for this beautiful,introduction.

(01:54):
So I will, do my extreme best to let all yourlisteners giving to get the best out of me.
And I and I'm sure you will.
So the first question is, how do you integratethe multiple disciplines into a cohesive
understanding of human behavior in yourteachings?

(02:15):
I would say it's easy because I like simple.
Because if you make a huge neuroscience kind ofexplanation, most people just fall off the
bandwagon and think, I don't know what it ismore about the neurotransmitters, hormones, the
nerve systems.
So if you bring everything together, we ashumans have a few simple, actually, drivers in

(02:38):
life.
If you really bottle it down to what is ourdeep why Mhmm.
Then we have say and then you come right awayto the integration.
We have three brains, scientifically proventhat already forty years in Western science and
in Asian science already for thousands ofyears.
And it is we have a brain in our gut,500,000,000 brain cells.

(03:00):
And if you think about what is our deepest needfrom there, it, you could say, is survival and
what it means to survive, to eat, to drink, toreproduce, and to get our food and actually run
away or fight predators.
Mhmm.
And that's it.
Evolution also break because we are humanbeings.

(03:21):
If we are born, we are totally helpless when weare born.
Can walk in thirty minutes.
It takes, least according to my older sister,took me five years to walk.
That's why you have older sisters to teach you.
Yeah.
So before we can escape somebody, it takesyears and years and years.
So if our parents or caregiver does don't takecare of us, we die.

(03:44):
So evolution or if you're religious, god gaveus a beautiful insight and gave us a heart.
That heart can actually really has oneobjective, and it's to bond.
And it makes sense when we have to language,I'm heartbroken.
Now why would you say you're heartbroken whenit when it would not make sense?

(04:05):
And that is a sentence we all know.
Oh, I'm heartbroken.
Oh, my heart starts beating faster if I seethat person.
Why would your heart beat faster if you see aperson?
So this brain, 100,000 brain cells, and itsmain objective is to bond and to connect.
Mhmm.
And it has also the values of good and wrongsomewhere.
Because values in good and wrong are connectedto how we deal with all our environments.

(04:27):
And, of course, if you have so many signsalready inside you, then evolution or the
person upstairs thought, how can we manage allof this?
And it gave us a beautiful head in the way ofan advanced neocortex, the gray matter on top
of our brain stem, emotional brain, whatactually almost every animal has, and then

(04:49):
really extended neocortex with only somemammals have.
And what's not a purpose of that one that has20% of your daily energy?
Mhmm.
That's actually to make predictions.
But what's the main difference between us andmany, many, many, many other living creatures?
We know what's next week and what is last week.

(05:11):
Right.
Memories have a memory.
Elephants have a memory.
Dogs have a memory.
Dolphins have a memory.
But they don't know what is next week.
We know what is next week.
We are really unique in planning forward.
That takes a lot of energy.
That's why all the memories we have make sensebecause a memory only makes sense if you can
predict what to do with that memory in the nowwhen it is occurring again and can make a

(05:35):
better prediction from there.
Those are our three basic needs we have inlife, and there's some survival, bonding, and
make the right prediction.
If you just think, how do you bottle it down?
And I know also your shows about people wholike to achieve, like to make their life
amazing.
Yeah.
Just imagine.
I will just make the question, We now establishwe have three brains.

(05:59):
And how smart is it than to only use one or twoof your brains to make decisions?
Oh, right.
Is that smart?
Not really.
No.
Not smart.
Not really.
And I I ask you because otherwise, I'm onlytalking.
And that's what's happening with many, many,many of us.
Mhmm.

(06:20):
From our genetics and mostly from oureducation, socialization, we learn to lean more
on one or two of our brains.
Yes.
If you if you make it simple, in genders, menrely more on a gut brain because we have to be
tough and fight and have a blue shirt onbecause if you had a pinky shirt, then probably
you think, why do you guys have a pinky shirt?

(06:40):
He's a guy.
And so we we we we already trained to almost bemere gut brain.
Yeah.
Women are more trained to be sweet,understanding, and understand that obnoxious
behavior of men.
Well, I mean, some are some, not all men.
I know I make a huge generalization.
But if you look at socialization, most times,that's how it happens.

(07:02):
So females are more already prone to get a moredominant heart brain.
Mhmm.
And, of course, when we go to school, our heartbrain is stuffed with all kind of knowledge,
language, math, and other kind of things welearn, strategic language, IT, etcetera.
And if you look at universities, most of us aretrained in universities, especially if you go

(07:25):
to MBAs.
Gut brain, you have to be the best.
Head brain, you have to know the most.
And the socialization brain is not so taught somuch.
So later in life, and in my research, what Idid up now to say more than 3,000 thought
leaders, you see that they all have somewhere apreference to one or two brains are more

(07:47):
dominant.
And the third one, a lot of times the heartbrain in leaders and a lot of times, say, in if
you look in the coaching world, the gut brainin coaches or in supporting jobs, there's the
heart there's the heart brain the most and thegut brain the lowest.
They have dominance.
So what you see happening then, if you liketheir success, is that a lot of leaders tend to

(08:12):
lean on their gut feeling or on their logic, ontheir strategic thoughts and forget to bring
the heart in from, hey.
What is happening actually in the whole team?
How can I make an engagement team?
Right.
Well, say, jobs or coaches and supporting jobsare a lot of jobs, say, who serve others.
It can be nurses, can be doctors, can befirefighters, can be middle management, you see

(08:35):
they lean much more on the heart and the headand forget the gut so much.
Right.
Mhmm.
If you think about success, what we like toachieve, where is your where your podcast is
also about, learning to listen to all three ofthem will make a huge advantage.
We've got you go from one or two brains tothree brains.

(08:55):
Mhmm.
That is almost the difference between walkingon one leg and walking with two legs.
Right.
So this is a huge explanation that ticks rightaway all the boxes.
How can you integrate it?
And what does it mean actually for a lot ofyour listeners if you like to have
achievements?
Achievements can be professional, individual,personal, health wise like to achieve.

(09:17):
Mhmm.
And and that's beautiful.
Thank you.
You know?
And it just makes more sense because when wetalk about, you know, your gut feeling or your
gut intuition, always trust your gut.
So I guess that's what kinda stems from when wetalk about
Yeah.
There's there's stems from it.
Right away, I like to make a I love that yousaid something amazing.

(09:43):
A lot of people trust their gut feeling.
Now there are two things to say about that.
One, the gut brain is the most ecocentric brainyou have.
Mhmm.
It's me, myself, and I.
It's really me, myself, and I.
There is no social worth in the gut brain.
Right.
Because the gut brain is about survival.
The lion does not think, oh, I will run alittle bit slower behind the deer because the

(10:06):
deer is also sad.
Now it just thinks, hey.
I run faster, and I have lunch.
Mhmm.
The deer will not think, I will walk a littlebit slower so the lion can get me because the
lion's old.
It just thinks the lion's old.
I run a little bit faster.
I lie I live.
So following your gut instinct is great if thetopic is what is good for me.
Mhmm.
Right.

(10:26):
Otherwise, the gut feeling is not the best.
Because if you would think what is good for myteam and you follow your gut feeling, that is
me, myself, I in a team, I don't give a beep.
And so then you actually have to say, say, itwould follow my heart.
What would I do?
And then you get a totally different kind ofanswer.

(10:47):
Mhmm.
And, of course, if you have multiple option onthe table and you like to think, what should we
do next year?
Then you have to make it logical.
And then, actually, after that, you have tostart integrating all three kind of answers.
So what is good for me is a, what is good forthe team is b.
B, what is what is strategically wise is c.

(11:08):
Okay.
How can I make from that equation one Mhmm?
Aligned decision?
And then we have massive success.
So sorry for interrupting you, but I'm just
like out
of the system.
Some people say, I follow my gut feeling, soI'm successful.
Yes.
You are successful.
Yeah.
What does it mean for the others?

(11:29):
That is so true.
No.
I was just bringing the I mean, this is yourshow, Christopher.
So that's okay.
You can expand more if you if you would like.
But I think that's so good because, you know, Ihear people say, you know, follow your gut
intuition.
Follow what feels good for you.
So when we talk about and and, you know, youare a visiting professor in, Madrid and

(11:51):
Georgetown University in Qatar.
What are the metrics that you follow thatmeasure the impact of behavioral intervention
in your international programs?
This is a really good question because everyprogram likes to have behavioral change.
Yeah.
And then you come right away with two topics.

(12:11):
One about, say, the head, heart, and gut, andalso about behavior.
The first thing is just imagine you have threebrains, and it doesn't matter which brain you
follow.
Your brain is like a compass.
So it likes to go, say, to the north, if youcompass.
What happens with many, many, many people ofus, we have childhood or adulthood experiences

(12:36):
that are all based on really strong beliefs.
I'm not good enough.
I cannot cry.
I always have to win.
Mhmm.
Or maybe traumatic experiences.
You have been bullied, physical abuse,emotional abuse.
What then happens is that your head, heart,actually more your gut in your heart, are
actually a compass with a huge magnet next toit, and that magnet is already a really strong

(12:59):
belief or a traumatic experience.
What was what happens with your magnet or withyour compass, it will get off off charge.
It will follow actually the strong magnet, thatstrong belief, or that traumatic event.
So that's one.
So if you then come back to behavioral changewith the same programs, When we talk about the

(13:22):
change in behavior, it only makes sense forpeople to change if the heart and the gut and
the head are aligned with that.
Right.
So, logically, if you think about it, make makemake sense.
Everybody knows that if you I think everyleader knows and everybody who works with
people knows that if you like to get a teamengaged and you like to get the best out of

(13:44):
yourself in the team, you have to engage theminside the decision making.
You don't you don't have to make them the boss,but use their brains, use their qualities, let
them work together, and one on one becomesthree.
If I say it in my MBAs or if it's now in Qataror actually in in in, say, the whole peninsula
there, because I train also in Saudi Arabia andin Israel or in in Madrid or in my other

(14:10):
international clients, which is, Chris, thatmakes sense.
We know that.
I said, okay.
And then it's a step.
How can you then make it happen?
Right.
Because still all the research shows that mostemployees, at least 80% of employees find their
leaders leaders not engaging.

(14:30):
They don't find an example behavior.
They don't feel really respected, and peoplestill leave leader leave their manager and not
a job.
So I said, if that is true, it will know.
Why don't we happen?
Now when we come to behavioral change,logically, you can say yes.
But your heart and your gut, based on thebeliefs, based on their memories, based on the,

(14:52):
say, the traumas, they stop you.
And how how how can you make that extremelysimple?
Just imagine.
Okay?
You make a shopping list, what you're going tobuy for today for food.
Mhmm.
Right.
A logical list, but but you logically decide, ab c d, whatever.
Then you come to do shopping at, say, 05:00 inthe afternoon or maybe 06:00.

(15:18):
We can choose.
But you have to skip your breakfast.
You have to skip your lunch.
You go really hungry to the supermarket.
What will happen?
Do you follow your list, or would you buysomething else?
I would buy somebody else.
You would buy something else.
And, Olga, this is what ninety nine point ninefive percent of the population does.

(15:43):
And why is it logically you made the decision,but your stomach is hungry and your gut brain
who says survival says, hey.
By the way, I don't have enough energy.
There's no food in me.
Hey.
Upstairs, it's nice that you wrote down asalad.
I see chocolate.
I see tree cheesecake.
I see wine.
I see also, by the way, beautiful other kind ofcheese.

(16:03):
We choose that.
That is quick energy, a lot of energy.
So skip your salad tour tomorrow.
Then you come home with all kind of differentthings.
Mhmm.
This is the power of your gut brain.
Right.
It will not listen if it does not agree.
Your heart brain is the same.
And maybe not for you, Olga, but I thinkeverybody can now a lot of people can relate to

(16:26):
that that you find say, you're 16, 17, 18, 19,20.
You find a nice boyfriend or girlfriend.
You come home with it, and your parents havesomething like, oh, where do you come home with
now?
And somebody give you silent advice, maybe thatperson is not the best for you.
Mhmm.
Mhmm.
But your heart says, I love that person.

(16:47):
I like that person.
Do we listen to our parents who probably knowthe best?
Your heart just overwrites that system.
And, again, your heart and your gut are muchstronger than our logic.
So if you now come back to your behavioralchange, what you said, it only works, and I see
it in every country I've worked there.

(17:08):
I also lived in Australia for nine years.
So I worked in the Asian world and Australiaworld.
K.
So I worked almost in every continent in theworld.
Every time it's the same, the heart and the gutoverride the logic.
If you like to go to behavioral change, what islogical to do, we somewhere have to integrate
in the questions if you're going to do it, ifyour heart is okay with it, if your gut is okay

(17:33):
with it.
Does it fit your belief systems a lot of times?
The belief systems are based on all yourexperiences, experiences of bonding what you
heard there, how you bonded with your family,what you should and shouldn't do based on the
highly impactful events, let's say, the traumaexperiences you had.
Mhmm.
Does it fit in?
Are they willing to support that?

(17:54):
If not, it doesn't happen.
Then people say, oh, yes.
With great training.
Oh, amazing.
I learned so much, Chris.
Thank you so much.
You're the best.
I see them one months later.
Said, hey.
People, how did it go?
Did you implement it?
Yeah.
We tried it.
Oh, yes.
We wanted to do it.
Something came up.
You know?
I thought about it.
It doesn't fit me really.

(18:15):
And you hear excuses.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, actually, what they say, my heart andmy gut wasn't in it.
Because if they then ask to those people andthey let's be honest, everybody.
It doesn't matter because I know I always say,I know that probably 80% did not do it.
And that is actually totally normal.
If not everybody does it, that means you'retotally strange, and you are on drugs.

(18:39):
So everybody start laughing and say, who of youhad something like, it doesn't fit it doesn't
fit as my heart feelings?
Who said it doesn't fit as my gut instinct?
And almost all the hands go up.
I say, yeah.
My heart is actually stopping me or my gut wasstopping me.
Right.
So in that moment, and as most times in thesecond time I see them, I really start diving

(19:00):
in how the heart and god works.
Why I don't do that on the first day?
I like that the experience that they say yes tothe change and don't do anything.
In that moment, we have to prove you said yes.
You wrote it down on your action sheet.
You you made a beautiful action sheet.
I have, by the way, a copy of your action sheetso I know what you would do.

(19:21):
You didn't do it.
No blame.
Okay.
So the strategy you used did not work.
Let's go for another strategy.
Who likes to have a strategy that works?
All the hands go up.
Please, Grace, help us.
And then we introduce much more the heart andthe gut and how to change.
And then we then make an action plan.

(19:41):
And as a simple example, I put then the peopleon one side of the room and say, this is the
zero.
The other side of the room is the 10.
Now we're going to walk with a question.
You walk, how much is my guard my my heart?
Actually, if you would just follow my heart,how much is my heart in the action I wrote
down?

(20:01):
And they just have to walk and follow their intheir feelings.
And you see people stop between three and six.
And then from there, start working.
Okay.
What does your heart need to go to a seven,eight, or a nine?
Right.
Yeah.
In coaching or other kind of way.
And then people get insights to say, oh, but ithas to fit with this value of me, or it has to

(20:24):
fit with this, or, actually, this is blockingme because I once learned from my parents, from
my school teacher this.
And somewhere, it still hurts if I don't dothis.
And then we can dismantle those old beliefsthey learned ten, twenty, thirty, forty years
ago that are useful in that time, but not nowanymore.
And when we did that class and we go back tothe same action points, and we don't do new

(20:47):
action points.
They have same action points.
And we then see them in the third time, then80% did it.
Then if also it's like I I remember the themost beautiful old leader.
There's an old ex it's called experience.
Otherwise, if he hears this, probably I heslaps me from my ears.
Of course, he has big shoulders.
He was really in the last year of of his worklife.

(21:10):
And he followed my training, and he was sittingthere, And he became extremely angry on the
third day.
He was like, what the is happening?
He said, please help me.
What's happening here?
I see you're angry and upset.
He said, Chris, why I'm so upset?
And I'm going to tell to everybody.
Let me go for in front of the room.
Give me your microphone.
Okay.

(21:30):
I will sit down.
He said, guys, what we just learned and women,what we just learned, this is the most
important thing for your whole career.
I know I see people now being here 25, 30, 35,40, all younger than me.
I'm 67.
I said, but I would have loved to be in yourshoes being 30 and have learned this lesson.
They would have made my life so much easier andso much more successful.

(21:53):
I learned now my last year, actually, what isstopping me or what stopped me in those years.
So people, I'm just going to tell you, if everyou have to learn something, this is it.
If you like to change behavior, ask your heart,ask your gut if they like to support you.
If the answer is no, you know it's no.

(22:16):
You work on then on the moment, what does myheart need?
What does my gut need to say yes?
And it it made a massive impact because he wasreally the senior guy and say, the mentor of
everybody and a good guy.
And, actually, he was six foot seven and nowsomething like huge.
So also his appearance mentioned, like, okay.
We listen to you.

(22:37):
He was a gentle guy, and he really had some,like it made such an impact to everybody in the
class, also on me.
That's why I'm telling you.
This is it.
And no.
So long answer, what do we need to do forbehavioral change?
Get your heart and your gut to support it.
If not, it will not happen.

(23:00):
Right.
And oftentimes, you know, people talk aboutchange.
They wanna change, like you mentioned, but thenpeople don't take the necessary actions that's
required to to change, to become a betterversion, to become who you are meant to be, who
you are today.
It's not who are gonna be, like, say, tomorrow.

(23:21):
But that change has gotta be consistent.
That change has gotta be there.
But if you're not willing to do anything aboutit and don't take the necessary actions to
change, I just said nothing will ever happen.
And I hear that so often with friends.
You know, I wanna chain, but I don't wanna doanything.

(23:41):
That's the that's the heart and gut.
Just imagine it.
Yes.
And let's take the the gut as example becausethat's the easiest.
The gut likes to survive.
Mhmm.
So if you now say a deer or a gazelle and youlive somewhere in the Savannahs of Africa, does
it make sense for that deer or the gazelle togo out of the territories he or she knows?

(24:05):
No.
Go to the unknown.
No.
Because the unknown could be have hyenas,lions, jackbursts, whatever kind of causes.
So it follows the passes it knows, and itprobably stays with the group it knows.
Mhmm.
That is gut brain behavior.
So all our friends who say this, this one saystheir head says, I like to change.

(24:27):
And maybe even their heart says, like, tochange because for every kind of reasons.
But then the gut says, I'm not going to get outof the safety so and so and a half.
I'm now 30, 40, 50 years old.
I'm here because I always listened and alwaysdid this.
So now I'm going to say I'm 48, that I have tochange what I did for forty eight years.
Are you really out of your mind?

(24:50):
I'm not going to listen to you upstairs.
I don't know what you drunk.
I don't know what you eat.
I don't know what you smoke, but I'm not goingto listen to you.
We do it my way because that is safe.
So what they are aware of, they have aninternal discussion.
Their head or their heart maybe says yes, ormaybe even their gut says yes.
I like to change.
I like to be healthier.

(25:10):
But then the heart says, yeah.
But, you know, we always have wine.
When I'm with Olga and we're sitting here onSaturday evening, we always have a bottle of
two of wines.
We have some cheese.
We have some good laugh.
We go we go to bed late, but they're so it's sosocial and so happy with Olga's on on on her
parties on a Saturday evening.
And if I'm not going to do that anymore, thenmaybe she finds me boring.

(25:32):
Her friends find me boring.
So no.
No.
No.
To stay bonded, I drink wine.
I eat cheese.
I go to bed late.
And maybe if I have a cigarette because that'show we do it as a group.
And then the heart brings you back from, no.
No.
No.
I'm not going to change.
And that's what we experience as peer grouppressure.
Right.
Peer group pressure is actually in, most times,in heart brain need for connection.

(25:58):
And sometimes our gut brain survival idea ifyou like to be by the by the the by the groups
that are, say, cool.
And when we are in high school, we like to bewith the cool groups.
That's also a gut brain survival.
Okay.
Look how look how good I am.
So those brains, they say no.
So what what you ascribe, Olga, is actually inevery person, and every person is you and me
too.

(26:19):
One of the brain says, let's do something, andthe other and the other one says, no.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
We did it always this.
It's not smart.
It's not safe, or it it will keep me rejected.
One out of the three.
And if one of those three answers is there, itwill not happen.
It's not smart.
Your head stops it.
You get rejected.
Your heart stops it.
It's not safe.

(26:40):
Your gut stops it.
So simple is it.
So for your friends and for your clients andfor the people who listen, if you like to do
something and something is stopping you, itmeans one of your silent brains, and I call
them silent brains because their internal voiceis not loud enough that you know what's

(27:01):
happening, is stopping you.
Because if it does if you don't listen, itwould just block you with sensations, feelings,
or critical voices in your head.
Right.
Absolutely.
That is so true.
I mean, I love, I love, you the humanbehavioral aspect.
What inspired you, Christofel, to pursue such amultidisciplinary path, and how has this shaped

(27:29):
your view on human on human nature?
There are two answers for what brought me aboutthis year.
One, I always had an drive for what people do.
Mhmm.
And so just to learn because I thirty yearsago, I became a leadership and sales trainer.
It's one of the best companies in Europe oractually the best company in Europe in that

(27:50):
moment.
And I was just passionate about, say, helpingpeople and making them best and understand it.
What drove me also is, say, I've been bulliedat high school.
I got a burnout ten years after I worked withthe I got, say, in depression after my second
divorce when I just emigrated to Australia, andmy ex ran away with a firefighter.

(28:10):
And I thought in the journeys, what makespeople tick?
Why do people what they do?
When I was when I was bullied, it lured me toobserve what do people do.
When I got my burnout after ten years, Ithought I thought I knew so much, but I got a
burnout.
So that means whatever we teach is amazing, andwe miss something.
Right.

(28:30):
So that brought me on the past actually ofsomatic coaching and somatic therapy.
Yeah.
So the body.
When I got my depression after my seconddivorce, when my ex ran away and we just
immigrated, so I was all alone in Australia, nojob, etcetera.
He did no social network, no nothing.
I thought, okay.
I'm now twenty years in fast.

(28:51):
I learned everything from my first ten years.
I learned everything from my other ten years.
I'm still depressed.
I don't get myself out of that in one day.
That means still missing something.
So it pushed me to other things to learn.
Therefore, I'm a writing master, NLP master,did constellations, did clinical hypnotherapy,
psychotherapy.
You name it, I did it almost to really comeaware what is now in charge of us.

(29:16):
What is now that little thing inside us thatmakes us feel or do what we do?
And then, let's say, eight years ago, I hitwith all my research and following courses that
we have three brains scientifically proven.
And then I thought, I have the answer for whatwe always say, the subconscious mind.
And your subconscious mind that's underneaththe iceberg story.

(29:41):
And that made me realize, uh-huh.
This is it.
That's my professional thing.
How does it give my view on mankind?
I would say it made me, you could say, softerand more empathic.
Mhmm.
And why do I say that?
When I was young, I could I could say topeople, you know, if you don't do it, you don't

(30:04):
have enough willpower.
You just have to push a little bit harder,etcetera.
Because when I was young, I did the Olympictriathlons.
Now if you do that, you have to have somewhereor a crazy mind or a lot of discipline Yeah.
Or maybe both.
So and I have a lot of energy and a lot ofdrive.
So I pictured myself and other people and sayif they don't do the same, they are the the

(30:26):
losers, not willpower, not disciplined.
I was judgmental.
Let's let's let's be honest.
In my last thirty years journey, I came awareeverything we do for every person is coming
from a positive intention for them.
Yeah.
Because nobody likes to mess up themselves.
Nobody doesn't like to be successful.

(30:47):
Nobody likes to be in pain.
Why do we do it?
Because all patterns are running the show.
So in all my learnings, I became muchespecially when I started to work in Australia
as a therapist and work with people who aresexually abused, physically abused, emotionally
abused.
And then you see women coming in and massivelyoverweight, and then you hear the story that

(31:09):
there were sexually abused when they were 12.
And, actually, they say and I can start gainingweight when I was 12 and 13.
And I think, oh, yeah.
It doesn't make sense, isn't it?
Why does it make sense, Chris?
I said, what happened after you gained twenty,thirty kilos when you were 14, 15 years old?
Oh, the sexual abuse stopped.
Ah, do you see the link?
Yeah.
And he say, please so you think I eat so muchto protect myself?

(31:35):
So yes.
Oh, wow.
And and at least half of the clients I saw inAustralia who had weight loss issues, the
females, had a sexual abuse history or aphysical abuse history.
And they used, say, their weight as aprotection mechanism.
Protection.
Yes.
Mhmm.
Protection.
Now I don't know how it was you, but I couldnever be any judgmental on any size anymore.

(32:03):
But you don't know their story.
Exactly.
So
for me, I would say it became much more muchmore empathic and understanding.
As as soon as, of course, I find the pity, andI get annoyed, and people don't get there.
But it's my ambition that I love that peopleare healthy, happy, and pursuing their dreams.
Yeah.

(32:23):
But I also understand that something from apositive intention is stopping them, and a
positive intention was positive when theylearned it some time ago.
Mhmm.
But what was ten, twenty, thirty, forty yearsago, positive intention is now hindering them
and stopping them and really having a life theylove to live.
That's right.

(32:44):
And
that insight yeah.
This is a made me, as my girlfriend says, itmade me human.
And I would say that's it's actually true.
It makes me totally empathic for every person Isee
on that
part.
Ask me a question.
Right.
Exactly.

(33:05):
You're more empathetic.
You became more, like, compassionate.
I also compare compassionate in
that part.
Yes.
Mhmm.
And and and and what I mean is empathic, thatis I don't say, okay.
I feel sorry for you, but, you know, if I wouldstand in your shoes, I would feel the same.
So I really learned to step in somebody else'sshoes to feel it, sense it from their

(33:29):
perspective.
And then the the almost always adjustmentsfalls off.
Right.
Yes.
Exactly.
Well, I mean That's what mean that's what Imean is empathic, to really step into to be
able to step in their shoes.
Absolutely.
100%.
And we have to step into, this into theclient's shoes in order to to, realize as to

(33:50):
what they're going through.
So, Christopher, if human behavior was alanguage, how would you describe the grammar
and vocabulary from your perspective?
If oh, you were I would say it is almost likeyou live in Switzerland or in Belgium.

(34:11):
Okay.
And what I mean with that, in Belgium andSwitzerland, they have three different
languages.
In Belgium, they speak Dutch, French, German.
In France oh, in in in Swiss, they speakItalian, German, French, and no.
Actually, also Swiss.
Swiss and that's in combination of
Mix.
Right.
Yeah.
That's why I would say that because humanbehavior is actually different languages.

(34:35):
Uh-huh.
We have a language from the head that that iswords.
Mhmm.
Language from the heart that is in moreemotional sensations.
Yes.
And we have, say, a language from the gut thatis instinctual sensations.
Love that.
And the funny part is we all understand it.

(34:57):
Like, everybody in Switzerland or in Belgiumunderstands it because we get educated in all
in all of them.
But when we get older, we start tending tolisten to more to one of them.
Mhmm.
And we forget the other ones.
Some of them meeting some friends in Zurich orin Geneva that is now say that's that's Swiss,
then they still know the French a little bit.
They still know the German.

(35:17):
They still know the some people still know theItalian, but they tend to also rather region
wise to one language more to one language more.
And they once become, say, a little bit lessstrong unless they move again to that part of
Switzerland and start getting it getting itbetter again.
And that would be for me the human behaviorlanguage.

(35:37):
It is a mix.
And I could also say it's like.
That is a language you speak in The Caribbean.
That's a mix of all kind of languages withSpanish, Dutch, English, and it is a mix of all
of it.
I could also say it
like this.
Uh-huh.
And that's also true.
The only thing is in that metaphor, we wouldunderstand all our different kind of languages.

(36:02):
And in my opinion, what I see up to now, wedon't so much.
Right.
That's And
that leans to both.
Yeah.
You need to exactly.
I mean, know, it's just very fascinating how,you know, human behavior as a whole, really

(36:23):
impacts, you know, really impacts us today.
And no matter what we do, we're just greatlyimpacted by it.
How do you envision, Christofel, seeing thefuture of human behavior studies evolving, you
know, as a visiting professor?
How how do you how do you envision

(36:44):
Any changes?
Okay.
How I envision and what I hope.
Okay.
What what you can take both?
Yeah.
So now what I hope let's start with the hope.
I hope, say, and it's not because I'm thefounder of three based intelligence, but I
really wish for mankind that we already comeaware that we have physically three brains

(37:06):
because it would mean we start learning, say,that we would integrate all the languages
instead of having three different languages wedon't speak anymore.
Because in that moment, we would make choicesthat are good for us, but also good for the
people who are involved in it, and it would belogical sense.
So pure evil would become less evil becauseyour heart would give conscious to it and said,

(37:30):
no.
No.
No.
We don't do that.
Only when you turn off the heart, you can dopure evil.
Because if you don't have a heart, you can dopure evil because you don't feel for it.
Hence, by saying in wars, our people aredehumanized because it's allowed to kill an
animal, not allowed to kill a human.
So if you dehumanize people, you call them pigsor devils or like eighty years ago, then you

(37:57):
then it's allowed to kill them.
But if you have a heart, then the heart says,no.
No.
No.
No.
No.
They're not an animal.
They're not an.
They're just like people.
So then that part in mankind become less.
If you bring it to the business world, it wouldmean that toxic leadership would not have place
anymore.
Right.
Yes.
It's not only about me as a leader in mycareer, but you would also take care of the

(38:19):
whole community.
And still having a career, you can still have acareer and being number one in the company
without hurting anybody else.
Just absolutely.
Yes.
So that's what I hope.
What I in envision is that it will go back andforth in different things, and that is because

(38:41):
there's an extremely strong force or two strongextremely strong forces in in the world, and
it's called money, and it's called religion.
Oh, true.
Yes.
And somewhere we learn from young age thatmoney brings happiness and freedom and
everything else, so we pursue it, gut brain.
And religion, in most religions, there's apower structure in.

(39:06):
And if you put a power structure in things, itmeans not everybody's equal.
And not everybody's equal Yeah.
We don't bring the best out of everybody.
So those
so those two things are somewhere then alsoreality.
Having said that, and I'm a born optimist inthat part, I would say in the moment we put a
third layer on it and we put three brains onthere, then even if you have money, even if you

(39:32):
have religion, even if have other kind ofthings, you cannot deny it anymore.
It doesn't mean that everybody will do it, butthe majority knows.
So hope and reality and and the realityprobably takes a little bit longer.
My hope is that we all start as John Lennononce said, just imagine it, a song from forty

(39:53):
years ago.
That that's a what I hope, but, yeah, that isprobably not realistic.
The other thing is more realistic, but then wehave something like an like an foundation where
maybe the the the money, the religion, thepower is based on.
Right.
That is so true.
Yes.
Mhmm.
Exactly.

(40:14):
What other are there any misconceptions thatperhaps you find, in in your students or your
peers when you address the, when you addresshuman behavior, you know, the impact that's
making what would you say the themisconceptions?

(40:34):
The biggest misconception is when moving withchairs, actually, the people say, this is who I
am.
Uh-huh.
And so, you know, I I and so there we talk alot about authentic leadership.
Mhmm.
And a lot of people think authentic leadershipis how I am now.
What is authentic leadership?
Authentic leadership in a of times is goingback to to the core.

(40:57):
Okay.
But for people, it's really be authentic.
Be who you are.
Don't play any games.
But the pity is, say, if you say 30, 40, 50, 60years young, then who you are is most times
what we think we are now.
Mhmm.
If
you actually go back to authentic leadership ishow was it actually before all those imprints

(41:19):
of beliefs, traumas, etcetera, came to me?
That's actually your authentic me.
Now all the other things we learned.
So if you see what's more a lot ofmisconceptions when you work with people,
people have something like, this is who I am.
They say, no.
This is what you do.
It's not who you are.

(41:40):
Mhmm.
And so if you make an huge black and whitesplit, we extremely core values almost define
who you are.
Right.
Respect, integrity, honesty, those kind ofthings.
They are most of them come from the heart howwe deal with with people.

(42:03):
Everything else, our beliefs and behaviors, welearned based on that value.
And those are actually almost learned lessons.
Mhmm.
So we're born, say, with the values of how weshould act in the world.
They're almost hardwired in us.
You could say they're they're instinctive.

(42:24):
Mhmm.
All the other things are learned.
So the misconception, and we also work on thesepeople, is your three brains have three
biological evolutionary needs.
This is actually who we are.
And they're almost for everybody the same.
Now based on your gene set, your your parents,you have a little bit difference in them.

(42:45):
What is more dominant, less dominant?
But then how you get trained is who you becomeArnold Schwarzenegger was was not born as a
bodybuilder.
No.
He's When he was five years young, he was justa normal kid with same kind of muscle structure
and bone structure as we have.

(43:06):
When he started to go to the gym and starttraining in the gym four to six hours to eight
hours a day, after a couple of years, yes, hebecame as he is.
So he would ask Arnold Schwarzenegger, who areyou?
And especially if you would ask him now becausehe was a bodybuilder.
He was an actor.
Mhmm.
He still is and he was a politician.

(43:27):
Who is he?
So, actually, he has three roles in his life.
Thanks.
But his real his real me is also still embeddedas the real child when he was when he was five
years old and still thought saw the world as heas he saw.
And based on his own gene set, he made thedecision, I'm going to follow this path.
Because if you look at his brother, his brotheris not shaped like him or or a politician or

(43:51):
something else.
It's a totally different kind of life path, butthey both came from the same mama and daddy.
So the gene pool was the same.
Right.
Only what they made from it became much muchdifferent.
So when I see human behavior and what I see inleaders, my students were also leaders or
salespeople that are all I said also, look atyou when you were five and what were your

(44:17):
dreams?
But do what on that moment did you find really,really important?
What were your values?
Not your beliefs, your values.
Values.
If you would now look at it, how did theyemerge in you?
Right.
And
what maybe maybe turned it a little bit awaybased on highly especially experiences, highly
impactful experience, traumas, or maybe reallysome strong beliefs that you learned from

(44:41):
situations, parents, or maybe from thosetraumas, and how did that shape and change your
life?
And if we start dissecting that, people alwayscome back to, oh, actually, we're not so much
different.
If I have a group of 30 people, they're oftenlike, no.
Actually, we're not so much different becausewhen we were five, we're almost all the same.
And when we probably were one years young, weall had the same needs.

(45:04):
Because when we are one year young, we almosthave the same needs.
Food, clean diaper, a mommy and a daddy whotakes care of us, sleep, etcetera.
And those are our basic values and beconnected, feel safe, get your toy, get your
food, get your securities, get your things, andeverything else is learned.

(45:26):
And if you go from that basis, then peoplestart building.
So if that everything I do is learned or almosteverything is learned Mhmm.
It means change.
Right.
I just have to learn something new.
And then you come back to the core.
And let's say it now, let's say, in fiveminutes, for some people to really get that in

(45:47):
all the three systems takes some more time.
But if you go back to that concept, they canreframe that misconception, I am who I am now.
Because if I would ask you, who are you?
What would you say?
Yes.
And what what is?

(46:07):
And then most times when you say, what is it?
You will describe what you are doing now.
Mhmm.
Right.
Maybe where you were born, maybe if you had whoyour family is, and that somewhere is.
But not say, this is what I really foundimportant in my family.
I'm Dutch, and I live in Spain.

(46:28):
In The Netherlands, most elderly people go toan aged care center.
What do you do with parents in Spain?
You take them in your house.
Yes.
Mhmm.
True.
And there
is no right or wrong.
Right.
But this is a learned behavior.
Learned behavior.
Absolutely.
If
I'm say, I am Dutch or I am Dutch, yes, mynational I would say my nationality is Dutch,

(46:51):
and I'm educated in Dutch beliefs, Dutch theDutch ways to to live with it.
Is that who I am?
Probably not.
Because if probably if I was born in in in aSpanish family, I would now find it totally
different.
Mhmm.
Or if my parents had had lived in Spain fromday one that I was born.
That was culturally raised in in Spanishculture.

(47:13):
And so the authentic me is is change isdifferent.
So when I come back, biggest misconception iswho are you?
100%.
And I just wanna just briefly touch upon, like,you talked about, you know, the change.
You you talked about Arnold.
And I hear people quite often say, you're borna leader or you're born a model or or an actor.

(47:38):
I don't believe no one's born.
You you're trained.
You're mold into as an model or an actor or apolitician as Arnold.
So, you know, I hear that more often that, youknow you know, Donald Trump, yes, he was
destined to become a politician, but he wastrained.

(47:59):
I don't believe that, you know, a Barack Obamatoo.
So you're born, you're not born into becoming aleader, but you have to you you got mold into
that individual.
It is you're so right.
There are there are two things I'd to say forit.
One, in positive psychology from, MartijkSaleppen, who the study say, what keeps us in

(48:23):
his research, he says 50% of what we are now isour gene set so that we can blame our parents
or we can thank our parents.
The other 50% is what kind of environment didwe grow up and what and how did we decide in
that environment?
And then one of the most beautiful examples ofthat is they had in research five petri dishes.

(48:47):
So five little glass things, and they put inthere bacteria that are lactose intolerant.
So they could not digest lactose.
That research put in every petri dish lactose.
So, actually, they played the hunger games.
After a couple of weeks, they came aware thattwo of the petri dishes were still alive, the

(49:09):
bacteria, and actually flourishing.
They were doing a great job, and three of themwere dead.
So the first time they saw this, oh, Weprobably did not have really clean petri
dishes.
Maybe there's something wrong.
We throw everything away.
We do it again.
We make everything extremely sterilized.
We make extremely clear that the lactose islactose.
No mistakes.

(49:31):
Couple of weeks later, same result.
What they came aware of, but in the bacteriathat were still alive, and that is what we call
epigenetics, the gene that cannot digestlactose had swapped and I can digest lactose.
Okay.
Okay.
Why is it so important than what you said?

(49:52):
So we are born with a gene set for mama andpapa.
But how we make decisions, what is ourenvironment can change who we are.
So you say we are born something, and I did thesame study with identical twins.
Right?
Identical twins that is you have one cell afterconception, and that cell splits in two and

(50:17):
become two persons.
So they have identical DNA.
Their their DNA is 100% the same.
Mhmm.
Those identical twins were split by birth basedon trauma, parents who die, wars, and all kind
of horrible things.
And they followed them.
And when they came aware, let's say thefingerprint had a 97% of sameness, but height

(50:40):
and weight, something like 70 to 80%.
That was really different.
But their mental state was almost like flippinga coin.
Some were depressed, 50%.
Depression, 30% correlation.
Alcoholism, 30 to 50% correlation.
So the mental states had less than 50% ofcorrelation.

(51:03):
Identical twins, same DNA.
Wow.
So their life was totally different, and theybecame different kind of personalities based on
the environment and decisions they made.
Now to come back to your answer, so, yes, youhave an, maybe, genetic advantage in some
sports or something else.

(51:24):
The parents from Brad Pitt are still goodlooking.
Brad Pitt and Angelie Jolie have two kids orthree kids.
I don't know exactly, and they all look amazingbecause the gene set of two beautiful people
somewhere had a little bigger chance to createa beautiful person according to standards we
have from beautiful.
But it doesn't mean that later in life, theystay the same.

(51:46):
If they become alcoholic, they became drunk,they can become drug addict, all their beauty
is gone.
Change.
Yeah.
True.
If if they only start eating at one of the foodstore change that fast food change, they will
also change the whole body set and become, say,obese.
And then they're not beautiful anymore in ourstandards what beautiful is.

(52:06):
So we can train it.
And what you say is so true.
You have somewhere a talent Mhmm.
But talent has to be trained.
So, yes, based on that, the death of DonaldTrump was already successful and an on goer.
He had already gene set to go to the max, topush for the success.
So he had in a gene set, okay.

(52:27):
I like to be a winner.
But then based on his education he had, basedon the things he had in life, based on the
decision he made, he he became what he became.
Right.
Yeah.
Because not all of his brothers if you look atthe at the family of Donald Trump, not all his
brothers became so successful.
And one of his brothers actually died as analchemy from alchemy when he was in his fifties
or sixties.

(52:47):
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
So in that part, it's not the same.
And we see that in so many families.
If you have one supporter who's amazing, itdoesn't mean the brother of him is or the
sister of him is also amazing.
It can happen.
It's not always happening.
Mhmm.
And so there is no it is how they are thenactually motivated from school or which teacher

(53:14):
they have or their friends they have, and itchanges.
So sentence they have, look at the five bestfriends you have, you spend the most time with,
you know, actually, what you become.
If you think about the if you think about thepatriarches, it makes sense because you are the
patri dish in the same environment as yourfriends.
So one moment, there's a chance, poof, yourgenes swap.

(53:38):
They become like them.
Mhmm.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That that that is so true.
You can't it's your environment.
And, also, you know, talent is not enough.
You know, know, you have two siblings, the samethe twins are not twins, but, you know, one
sibling has the talent, the other one doesn't.
So it's not about the talent.
You know, it's not just the talent, but you canhave the skill set.

(54:00):
And some people don't have the skill.
I mean, I can't be a basketball player.
I don't have the height.
So you gotta be realistic like you said.
A 100%.
So, Christopher, what advice would you suggestindividuals who want to pursue a career in
human behavioral science, what, what advicewould you give out there?

(54:28):
It depends what you like to do.
And if you like to go really in the depths ofscience Uh-huh.
Then you need, say, a lot of determination andyou need something like a good brain because
you need a lot of knowledge.
If you like to say become working with peoplelike that in human science, it means you have a
broad perspective and huge in and and broadinsight.
Because there is no one solution that will helpsomebody to become a good leader, to become a

(54:52):
good coach, become a good consultant.
Of course, if you look at psychology, there are10 major different ways how psychologists are
trained from Hungarian to Freudian to Rogerianto CBT.
So none of them outperforms all the others.

(55:13):
Extensualism, they all have their own quality.
So if you like to become really great in whatyou do, you need to have a broad perspective
and start learning, say, the holistic way whathelps us.
Because if you talk about, say, achievingsomething, it's not only, say, your mindset and
your three brains aligned.

(55:33):
There's also but but what do you put in yourmouth?
What do you eat?
And so how do you take care of your own health?
Yeah.
Where do you live?
And do you live in a healthy city, not healthycity?
Do you have do you have, say, the opportunitiesto go there?
There's research done there for the people whoare now extremely rich or successful in, say,

(55:54):
IT, the Steve Jobs, the Bill Gates, person ofOracle who's now in the top five of richest
persons, they all were born in the same kind ofarea.
And when they were in between '16 and '25, theIT boosted.
So it's also the environment where you live inthe lived, in an environment where it was
nurtured.

(56:15):
You could have had the same skills and the samesmartness as a Bill Gates, as a Steve Jobs
living in the middle of Nigeria
Yeah.
Yeah.
And never never got that opportunity.
So it's also so if you look from what do youlike to do, it is look at the holistic way.
Am I at the right spot?
Actually, do I have that broad view what'sneeded on this moment?

(56:36):
Do I actually have my three brains aligned whatis happening?
And am I willing to pay the price for it?
And if people really like to be successful, inmy opinion, you need this this sequence.
Your heart takes care of the passion.
That is number one.
If you're passionate about something, you willrun the extra mile.

(56:59):
Your heart will give your gut the x the the thethe signals, give me all the energy to pursue
my dreams, my passion.
And then the heart and gut say to the head,could you give just give us all the wisdom what
we should do to make this happen, by the way,or do I actually fall we fall down 20 times
before we start learning to walk?
If you follow that sequence, you're almostalways have success because passion will give

(57:22):
you extra energy to go there.
Mhmm.
And if people say, how does it work?
Or say, can you remember when you fell in lovewith your first girlfriend, your first
boyfriend?
How much energy did you have?
Yeah.
True.
Absolutely.
And that's the heart that says, oh, I'm sopassionate about this person.
It says to the gut, give me energy, give youmore cortisol, aponeuropathy, adrenaline to

(57:46):
stay awake.
Mhmm.
And he goes, okay.
I will do that.
You're there.
And the head says, okay.
What should I say shouldn't I say?
What kind of likes should I have?
Not likes to make it happen.
Oh, he or she loves the the the movies.
Okay.
I'm going to read about movies.
Oh, he or she likes learning about, I don'tknow, animals.
Okay.
I'm going to read the going to Wikipedia tolearn everything about animals.

(58:09):
So that sequence helps.
Passion makes you win.
Passion.
Exactly.
Passion.
You're gonna be passionate.
How do you what what is the future lookinglike, especially when it comes to, you know,
the technology AI?
So, you know, there's so much advancementthat's happening right now with AI.

(58:32):
How do you envision seeing the field of humanbehavior, and how do you think that's gonna
change in the next ten, twenty years given thefact that AI is here and it's gonna be
disruptive?
Back to let's bring it back to five yearsbecause twenty years, I think nobody can
envision.
Okay.
Five years.
Yes.
Okay.
Five years.
Yeah.

(58:52):
The
two things.
AI is an amazing Wikipedia.
Mhmm.
And so database wise, so knowledge wise, it'shard to outperform the AI.
So put all the data and all the research in,and you get the best analysis.

(59:12):
Yeah.
What I still envision is that humans make thedifference.
Of course, I was spoke talking to somebodywho's extremely experienced, sorry, in AI, and
really and said, you know, AI can doeverything.
It can start measuring the temperature ofpeople and envisioning this and tracking eye

(59:32):
movements, etcetera, etcetera.
So it becomes a human.
I said, never.
Because a human, if we would put our hands toeach other, we could feel the energy of each
other.
Our heart can be measured nine meters outsideour body, the electromagnetic energy of the
heart.
Mhmm.
Our hearts can make us synchronize.
So every nun who lives in a monastery has asynchronized period because the heart

(59:57):
communicates.
The body communicates with each other.
So we as humans have sensory systems.
AI can never outperform.
So in the real human part, people willoutperform.
Having said that, in saying all a lot of basicskills and knowledge skills, AI will be our

(01:00:17):
backbone.
And, like, fifty years ago, people started towork with their first pocket calculators.
Yeah.
Doesn't mean we cannot calculate anymore by thehead.
Yeah.
We still can do it.
But if it's difficult, we take we take we takea pocket calculator or actually your your
iPhone or your phone.
So it becomes a tool.
Mhmm.
We'll say the superintelligence computer outrunus.

(01:00:42):
Yes.
It could be become our, say, nature in us, buthuman touch will never be changed.
The baby that starts being on mama's chest cannever be replaced by AI.
Right.
It's not a sensation.
Mhmm.
And the human connection can can help us andcan make us feel less alone, but still oxytocin

(01:01:11):
will be different released.
Oxytocin is the bonding hormone that makes ushappy and all those kind of things.
So it will do a lot of things, but the humantouch will not be there.
So in behavioral world, I can imagine that manycompanies will use that as their backbone of
knowledge backbone.
K?
Forty years ago, we all had the encyclopedia inour house.

(01:01:32):
It's all on paper.
Now nobody has it anymore except yourgrandparents.
We have now somewhere Wikipedia or Shockpediaor or just AI that gives us an answer.
So it will stay a tool.
The real human touch will not be changed.
Yes.
Will there be robots who will do a lot of workfor us and maybe work in aged care centers to

(01:01:53):
give money and listen to people?
Probably yes.
Will it replace humans?
No.
So in human behavior, it stays with us.
True.
Absolutely.
But, yes, we will rely much more and much moreon those kind of things.
But it's a little different.

(01:02:14):
Like, there's only one thing that say that inthat part worries me, and it's our critical
thinking.
That's so true.
You're taken away.
Yeah.
If you think Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prizewinner, wrote a book, thinking fast and slow.
That's actually also our three brains.
Our our three brains take 40% of your energy.

(01:02:38):
So that means you're 60% left for all thethings that keeps us alive.
Right.
That tends that if we see something like this,we write it and say, oh, that's an iPhone.
Of course, it looks like an iPhone has threedifferent things here, so it's an iPhone.
It could be a dummy, but you only see thispart, so we assume it's an iPhone.
Mhmm.
It is what Daniel Kahneman calls system onethinking.

(01:03:01):
It does not take any energy.
It doesn't take any energy to give an answer.
So your three brains are extremely happy.
Law of association.
It looks like a duck.
It talks like a duck.
It shits like a duck or probably it is a duck.
In that part, AI can be dangerous for us if westop being the devil's advocate and say, is

(01:03:24):
this true?
And we have to step in sin system too to comeover here.
Let's do the check if it's right.
Right.
And and that part, at least, like I say, in myopinion, the danger that you start trusting
something without being critical.
And that's every in all parts life.
I have to say that in AI, especially if youlike to become so successful in life, you also

(01:03:47):
have to have the critical thinking there.
My system one says, let's go there.
That's why we full say and listen to one or twobrains because it doesn't take energy.
Let's put all the energy in there to reflect onactually, did we make the right decision, the
critical thinking?
But critical thinking takes energy, and we haveto put focus and passion on it so we can

(01:04:12):
release dopamine, a p t a p p so we can get thefocused learning state.
Now that part is a little bit dangerous, in myopinion.
Mhmm.
Absolutely.
Well, Christofel, this has been such apowerful, insightful conversation.

(01:04:32):
I would thoroughly enjoy it, and I absolutelyagree.
I think when it comes to human connection,there is nothing like human connection.
You know?
Robots cannot replace that.
But it's a it's a tool.
You know?
We have robots.
You know?
The it's, they're very helpful and, you know,as to what's happening now.

(01:04:53):
So I absolutely agree, you know, humanconnection.
We need that.
So, Christopher, where can people connect withyou and learn more about you?
And now one, they can try to Google my name,Christoffel Sneiders, then probably you will
find me.
But based on the fact it's written like an s ne I j d e r s, it will be harder.

(01:05:16):
The easiest way is to type in three brainsintelligence.
Brain intelligence.
Okay.
That's that's it.
Three brains, head, heart, gut intelligence.
If you Google that, you find me.
You find my websites.
You find free downloads, free information, freestuff so you can learn free, and, of course,

(01:05:37):
you can learn also paid.
The cheapest way is always say, buy one of mybooks.
It's €10.
It's two coffees in in in, say, if you go toParis.
I was in Paris last month, and a coffee was €5.
Was like, wow.
Two coffees is the same as my book.
Anyhow, that's the cheapest way to learn aboutthese kind of things.
And for me, I would encourage everybody, learnit because it makes your own life more healthy,

(01:06:03):
more happy, more successful.
Mhmm.
And who doesn't like to have all three ofthose?
Absolutely.
Who doesn't?
And what's the title of your book?
The title of my current book is relationships,which brain is talking.
So it bends down on all the relationships wehave in life, and it can be a partner
relationship, family relationship, or colleaguerelationships because we all have

(01:06:25):
relationships.
My new book that is coming out in a couple ofmonths is three brains intelligence.
Let let your biology do the hard work for you.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I look forward.
Okay.
So we'll put all of this in the show notes.
And, well, thank you so much, Christopher, and,you know, really appreciate the insightful,

(01:06:50):
innovative, the sci the frontier of science asto what's happening in, human behavioral world
and, you know, what's happening in the realworld and how the impact you are making.
And we wanna thank you, the audience, fortuning in today's episode.
So I make sure to like and subscribe to thechannel.

(01:07:12):
In this way, we're gonna be we're gonna bringamazing guests like Christopher Schneider.
And so stay tuned for the next episode of Askthe Experts, and we will see you all the same
time.
Thank you.
Bye for now.
Thank you so much, Christopher.
I
appreciate your time.