December 16, 2025 • 58 mins
Alka Sharma welcomes Max Nijst to discuss his journey through addiction and recovery. Max shares his turning point, early struggles, and the role of family in his sobriety. They delve into the roots of addiction and Alcoholics Anonymous's impact on his recovery. Max highlights motivation, pain as catalysts for change, and identity transformation. He offers a framework for recovery, overcoming negativity, building habits, and valuing hard work. The conversation touches on resilience, transformation, and podcasting's role in spreading hope. Max emphasizes service, seeking help, and concludes with support information and closing thoughts.
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(00:02):
Everyone, welcome to another episode of askingexperts podcast.
Today, we are gonna take a deep dive intotransformation and resilience.
Today, we have a very special guest, Max Nyst.
Max is a motivational speaker.
He's an author and podcast host.
(00:26):
Max will be sharing his journey oftransformation with resilience, but also he is
a recovering addict, and I am pleased to say hehas been sober for twenty years.
Max has dedicated his life to helping othersbreak free from the struggles and build a life
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they truly deserve.
In this episode, Max will be sharing hispowerful journey of recovery and the mindset
shift that has really helped to shape his path.
He will also be sharing practical wisdoms foranyone who is facing the obstacle, the
(01:14):
challenges, and who feel insurmountablepressure or challenge in their life.
Let's get started.
Welcome to the show, Max Neist.
Thank you for having me, Alco.
Honor is all mine.
Thank you for being it's been a crazy morningalready here for me and you know?
(01:35):
But I am so honored to be here.
Thank you.
Welcome.
Max, share your story.
You've been sober for twenty years.
Can you share with us what was the turningpoint that decided that made you decide to
change your life so profoundly?
(01:59):
Well, just to Were
Were there a moment or moments?
There are many moments.
Right?
So it's been twenty two years now.
I turned twenty two years clean and sober inSeptember, and I will Congratulations.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I will try to give you the condensed version,but, you know, in this journey that I've been
on, there's been many moments.
(02:20):
Right?
And I'll give you like, for example, one of thefirst moments I knew that change had to happen,
I was sitting in jail for the last time, and Iwas having this conversation with my cellmate
or my bunkmate as they call them because wewere on bunks.
And I was, you know, I was in this moment ofself pity and poor me and, you know, blah blah
(02:43):
blah.
And I remember telling him, you know, like, Ireally love my kids and and the gentleman,
right, just let me keep going.
I kept, like, poor me.
And and then when he goes, are you done?
And I said I said, yeah.
And he said, well, if you love your kids somuch, what are the f are you why are the f are
(03:04):
you doing here?
Like, in not so nice terms.
And, you know, back in those environment,right, I jumped down because, you know, you
that was a form of disrespect.
Right?
So I thought he stood up.
I stood up.
We're nose to nose, and I thought, okay.
We're gonna fight here.
But something came over me where I was like,he's he's so right.
(03:28):
Like, he's so correct.
And I looked at him, and I said, you're right.
And he goes I go, I gotta change.
And I said I thanked him, and I gave the guy ahug.
And he goes, yeah.
Go get out of here and and go get back to yourkids because, you know, my addiction took me
away from my kids for nine years.
(03:48):
And a little story about that is when I gotinto the thick of my addiction and, you know,
my ex wife had enough of me, she took the kidsout of state without telling me, and it crushed
me.
It crushed me.
So what happened when she came back nine monthslater, I remembered this.
Here is one of those moments.
Right?
I remember I had borrowed a friend's car, and Iwas sitting in it.
(04:10):
It was a summer, really hot summer that time.
They had just moved back to Orange County, andshe said, hey.
The kids wanna see you.
Please be here.
And I said, okay.
So not wanting to miss that, I borrowed afriend's car, I I parked in front of her house,
and I fell asleep that night.
You know?
And and I'll never forget it.
Right?
I I the next day, it's hot.
I'm sweating.
(04:31):
Right?
I I hear a knock on the window, And I put theseat up, and there's my wife and my three kids.
And they're just and she's got this look of,like like, sadness, disgust.
My kids are looking at me, and I'll neverforget that feeling, Olga, of just that extreme
guilt and shame and going, they'll never see melike this again.
(04:55):
And that would lead me deeper into myaddiction, but I would not see my kids for the
next nine years.
And, I mean, I would just my addiction took meon a crazy path, right, where I like I just
explained in the last time I was in jail iswhen these moments started happening.
And another moment where I knew I had to changeis when my mother came to visit.
(05:17):
I was
two
weeks in, And, you know, I had been goingthrough this for years, so she came to visit.
And and before I could say a word, you know,she you know?
And like in the movies, they pick up the phone,right, through the glass, and I pick up my
phone.
Yeah.
And she looks at me in the eyes, and she says,I love you, son, but you're no longer welcome
at my home.
(05:38):
If you come near my home, I will call thepolice.
And if the neighbors see you and I'm not home,they're gonna call the police.
What are you gonna do?
You know?
And I still get goosebumps thinking about itbecause that was another moment.
You know, at first, I'm like, I don't know.
And that's what I told her.
I said, I don't know.
And she started crying, and I'm like, why areyou crying?
You get to go home.
(05:59):
I have to go back and go sit in this.
And she goes out you know, hearing her say thatwas the best answer you ever gave me.
Mhmm.
Right?
Because of all the prior empty promises.
Oh, yeah.
I promise I'll get a job, or I'll go back toschool, or I'll be good to you, mom, and I'll,
you know, I'll I'll I'll do what I have to toget the kids back so you could be a grandma.
(06:20):
I mean, I can't tell you how many emptypromises I, you know, broke because of my
addiction.
Right?
Because once I start drinking and using drugs,all that flies out the window.
And but there have been many moments.
And even in my recovery where, you know, Ilost, like, nine years ago.
Now I lost excuse me.
(06:42):
I lost my first, I lost my sister.
Eight months later, my brother would lose hisbattle to addiction, and he would take his own
life while I was moving out of state.
And then six months to the day, my mom wouldpass away literally alka of a broken heart on
thanksgiving day nine years ago.
(07:02):
That's so amazing.
Yeah.
And I would put my daughter, my youngestdaughter, into treatment for the first time
that following Monday.
So there's been moments, like but those weremoments where I said, gotta stay on the path.
Like, I'm not gonna use this as a reason to gopick up a drink, or go do some drugs, right, to
(07:22):
to numb the pain, which I did.
You know, a lot of the pain, I I numb because Ididn't wanna feel that uncomfortable pain
feeling, right, of of not being a dad, beingdivorced, right, being a lousy son, and being a
a a lousy brother.
You know, and because I'll I'll I'll let youknow that, like, shame and guilt is probably
(07:44):
the biggest emotions or feelings that willkeep, an alcoholic or a drug addict in their
disease or in their addiction because it getsso great.
You know, the only thing you know when youdon't have the tools, the only thing you know
is, like, I know what will make this go away.
Even if it's for a minute, but I'm gonna do Andthen, you know, the patterns, it just gets
(08:08):
worse.
Nothing gets better.
And, you know, it was it it's been quite a ridefor twenty two years and but I wouldn't trade
it for the world because I'm sitting here withyou today, which, you know, like, if I would've
kept going, we you and I wouldn't have thisconversation because there would be like, who
is Matt?
True.
Yes.
You know?
Exactly.
Yeah.
(08:29):
Yeah.
But, I love it.
Go ahead.
I mean, I could talk for hours about this, butI know we have a limited time.
Well, no.
Absolutely.
I can totally I can totally understand.
You know, I was just talking to a friend ofmine who also went through his sister.
He's got two two sisters, and one of his eldersister last year passed away from fentanyl.
(08:53):
And then his youngest sister also so and shewas on the streets.
The older sister was on the streets inVancouver, and she was she was a drug addict.
She was taking, you know, heroin and but shedied of fentanyl.
So and the youngest sister, his younger sisteris also a drug addict, but I can only imagine
(09:17):
that that you shared the emotion.
The emotion side as of an addict is one ofguilt and shame because, you know, when you're
facing those moments, those dark moments inyour life for whatever reason that you're
taking drugs, it only affects not justyourself.
(09:39):
You know, you're maybe you're just kindaharboring yourself, but it affects the family.
Like, I mean, you know, and guilt and shamebecause your family are thinking, well, you
know, what are you doing?
And, so can you also share?
Because I'm just very curious to know whenthose moments happen to any, addict.
What is happening?
What goes through their mind?
(10:01):
What was going through your mind?
So I had it put to me this way, which made verymuch sense at the time.
Right?
When I was newly sober and I would I have asponsor, still have the same sponsor, but I
have, like, many mentors, you know, that havebeen sober many more years than I have.
So I would always ask them, you know, like, whyis it it's how do I put it?
(10:29):
It when you start going through those feelings,right, especially, like, when I was married
yeah.
I was married young, but I I I took my vowsserious.
So when that world started to fall apart andhow do I put it?
You know, you start feeling less than because,okay, I've in my head, I failed as a father.
(10:51):
I failed as a husband.
I don't know.
The not having any, like, a father.
My father died when I was So and that's not theexcuse, but what I'm saying is, like, not
having those examples of what, you know, afather should do or having anyone to go to when
that divorce went through.
(11:12):
Like, I had nobody.
And my mom was older, so she really she wouldlook at me like I don't know what to you know,
she had been divorced many times herself, but,you know, she her husband her third husband
died while they were married, obviously.
But she would look at me like, I don't knowwhat to tell you because I wasn't perfect.
I would see that look in her eyes.
(11:32):
Like, I wasn't perfect.
You know, I had two previous marriages.
Like, how do I help you?
And, you know, and and not having the tools orany not having for me, it was like, I felt like
I had no one to talk to.
So when those feelings would come up, I didn'thave an outlet.
Right?
So my outlet became alcohol at in thebeginning.
(11:55):
Right?
Drinking and going to a bar and, you know, alittle dive bar and and talking to people, you
know, like, just the movies.
You know?
You talk about your problems.
You have a drink.
But as it got worse, like, instance, when Itold you she took my kids without my knowledge
to another state, that was a whole new level.
Then it was like for me, it was like proof Ifailed.
(12:19):
So here's what I'm gonna do.
Plus, didn't want you know, because at thetime, yes, I was drinking and and but my kids
having them every weekend kept me together longenough to to, like, get through the week, and
they go, okay.
I have my kids.
Cool.
Like, I'm and I would tell people, don't comeover.
It's my kids and I.
It's my weekend with them.
(12:40):
I don't wanna be bothered.
And for the most part, a lot of people wouldrespect that.
But when that was taken away, you can onlyimagine.
Right?
Like, then it was like because I had no idea.
I came home from work, there was a message onthe on the answering machine.
And, call me at this number, and it wasn't aCalifornia area code.
So when I called it, I'd I'll never forget.
(13:02):
You know, I asked her.
I said, where are you at?
She said, I'm in Nebraska, and I'm not cominghome.
Wow.
It's a long way off.
Yeah.
My heart that's what I'm saying.
My heart dropped out of my body.
I didn't I couldn't even speak to her afterthat.
I just, you know, I I and that's when I waslike, okay.
I know what my little brother's doing.
I know what my friends are doing.
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Some of them over here are doing the drugs, andI'm I'm gonna go find them now because I really
don't wanna feel this pain, but I don't knowhow to handle it otherwise.
Right?
That was the only tool I know, and it justspiraled really quickly out of control because
you know?
And and what I would tell someone who's goingthrough the same thing, don't be afraid to ask
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for help.
There's people out there.
They may not be in addiction, but there'stherapists.
There's people that will understand that mayjust listen to you because sometimes that's all
we need is someone to hear us.
Right?
And and I felt like I had no one to hear thatpain I was going through.
So I felt like I had to carry it myself, andthat was that was a big reason I look back now
(14:08):
as I've done the work is why I drank and used.
It's like, oh, no one wants to bother with me,so I know what I'll do.
Right?
That's true.
Mhmm.
You know, I don't know how to ask for help, butI know what will take care of the pain.
Yes.
But I think in those moments, you know, you'rejust kinda, like, numbing the pain because I
think that's what, you know, happens thatyou're just kinda taking the drugs or taking
(14:33):
the, alcohol or anything, but you're just kindajust numbing the pain just temporarily, but
it's not exactly, getting to the root cause ofaddiction.
So let's talk about how has your journeythrough trauma shaped your life today?
Because, obviously, you know, you have you hadto you've done a lot of work, and it always
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takes a lot of inner work for anyone to be inthat situation, but to do that inner work.
So how has your journey shaped your life today?
And what has been some of the approaches thatyou help others as well to overcome their
challenges?
Right.
(15:17):
I'm glad you asked that.
That's a great question because, like, when Iwas getting in trouble because of my addiction,
right, like, for instance, like, that time Itold the last time I was in jail, I was
actually looking maybe at three years in prisonbecause I had done nothing the judge that I was
seeing or at the courts had asked me to do.
(15:40):
So I had no idea what AA or NA or any 12 stepprocess was because I never did what the judge
asked me to do.
I never went to a meeting.
And so I'm grateful now as I look through thatjourney where the judge says, you're gonna do
this, this, and this.
And if you don't, then I will send you toprison.
Right?
Which I got introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous,and and, you know, this is my journey.
(16:03):
I'm not trying to promote anything, but it wasthe best thing that ever happened to me because
it put me in front of the right people at theright time and what I needed.
Right?
Like, some of them were, like, the strict,you're gonna do this with, like, the facility I
went to, or we'll kick you out and we'll callyour probation officer, and then you're gonna
(16:23):
go to prison.
Or you could do it our way, go to meetings, geta sponsor, work the steps.
Right?
And I had no idea what that meant, but I'm gladI did it and kept an open mind because I I
ended up relapsing four times in that placethat I went to.
Oh, wow.
Because the first when I first got there, I waslike, okay.
(16:45):
I'm gonna do I I wanna look good.
Right?
Keep the judge and the and the probation off,and I wanna look good in these meetings when I
realized that's not how I'm gonna get to theroot of the problem because I'm still being
surfaced.
I'm not digging deep.
But when I had that last relapse, okay, and itwas one day, one use, that feeling of guilt and
(17:07):
shame that came back brought me to my knees,and it was like, okay, god.
This is where god and I had a realconversation, and I said, okay, god.
If you keep me sober, I promise to do the workto stay sober, and then I will help other
people do the same.
And I did that.
(17:27):
What my sponsor suggested and he wasn't thekind of guy who's like, you gotta you have to
do this, this, and this.
Right?
But he would say, we're gonna do this.
Uh-huh.
Right?
And then he would remind me when I would go, Idon't wanna do this.
Right?
He would go, hey.
You said you would do anything.
And I say, you're right.
And but, you know, I've been through the steps,and it helped me realize, like, why I drank and
(17:52):
used.
So I'll go back a little bit to help explain toyour audience.
So when I was younger Mhmm.
Right, there's a lot of addiction that runs onboth sides of my family, and it's been proven
by science that DNA runs in you know, ouraddiction runs in your DNA.
Right?
Not everybody responds like I do, but mostpeople, if it's in your family, it's gonna
(18:14):
happen.
Right?
So but, like, on my mom's side, my herbiological father who was a prisoner of war
during World War two was shot by the Japanese,right, and became a drug addict because what
they did back then was just pull the bullet outand say, here's morphine.
Take it when you're in pain.
Right?
Not right?
Not like here where they educate us.
(18:35):
Right?
Like, be very addictive, so be careful.
Right?
Right.
Yeah.
And so not only did he get addicted, you know,to the morphine, he got he he became an
alcoholic according to my mother.
And then my mother tells me my dad was analcoholic, and there's a lot of alcoholics on
my dad's side of the family or people withmental health issues like bipolar, depression,
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which, you know, I've I've suffered fromdepression in the past.
But so what I realized is that young me at 10okay.
I I hadn't seen my father because my mom andhim had divorced when we were young, when I was
five.
So I hadn't seen him in five or six years.
He came back.
I was 10 years old.
(19:18):
And the last promise he made to me was I haveto go back to The Philippines because and
finish some work, and then I promise I'll beback for your birthday.
So my birthday is in March.
This happened in January when I was 10 yearsold.
K.
So here comes March.
I turn 11.
No dad.
So, again, right, here comes April, then I findout my dad dies of a massive heart attack.
(19:42):
Oh.
But in my 11 year old mind, I was like, howdare you break that promise?
And I share this because that's what I lookback now.
It was like, broke a promise.
Like, to me as a like, how dare you die?
Like, you promised you would be here.
Right.
He told you.
Yeah.
Right.
Any son who wants to have a relationship withhis father, which was I was looking forward to
(20:05):
because he said he was coming back, I think, tolive in this state so I could spend more time
with him.
But so I realized later when I did the work,that was one of those resentments that I had
held towards my
dad.
Yes.
It drove me to go, Brian, I didn't like theanger I felt towards that.
I didn't like the hurt.
So what I do?
(20:27):
I found you know, at 13 years old, I foundalcohol and and marijuana.
And, you know, and one, it made me feel a partof.
Two, I didn't have to think about you know,because most of my friends had both parents.
And for me, it was hard.
I would my best friend back when we wereyounger, all his dad and him would always
invite me to their father son picnic that hiswork would hold.
(20:47):
And I would remember sitting on a bench just,like, away from everybody just feeling sad for
myself, but also at the same time, I'd beangry, like, very angry.
Like, this should be me and my dad.
You know?
My dad and I should be doing this too.
And and that was one of the root, you know,problems.
I mean, we can go to so many.
Right?
Like I told you, failure as a father, failureas a husband, failure as a like, all these
(21:12):
things that I look back at where I think Ifailed in my head where I started that
narrative was my reason to go, oh, I know it'sgonna fix this because then I don't have to
think about it.
Exactly.
Yes.
Exactly.
So it was it was this was like that, you know,shortcut.
But, so like I was saying is that, you know,you're you're putting like a Band Aid.
(21:34):
You're you know, anytime we have an addictionand I can only just imagine that what that you
know, what anyone goes through.
But it's just like a short term pain.
Short term.
And you're putting a Band Aid, and you're notgoing to the root root of the problem, what
role does motivation play when you arerecovering?
(21:59):
Okay.
That is a very good quest question.
Motivation.
Right?
Because, like I said, I've been sober now forso well, for twenty two years, for a long time
now.
Mhmm.
And, you know, I used to think I used to thinkmotivation was a thing.
But then I got involved in, like, personaldevelopment, and some of my favorite authors
(22:20):
like David Goggins, if you've heard of him.
Right?
Yes.
He
says excuse my lame.
Motivation is shit.
Like, there's no such thing.
Like, you're either gonna do it or you don't.
Right?
And so but I as I looked at my journey, therewas motivation because there was I can't I got
(22:41):
my children back, right, after a year ofsobriety when I relapsed that.
And there's another story behind that.
I started seeing the kids, and then I relapsed,and then I disappeared again.
So but after a year of being sober, you know, Iwas allowed to go see my mom at her house
because she told me, you know, until you get ayear, you can't come over.
I don't want you over here.
Mhmm.
(23:01):
And then, you know, my ex found out because Itold her at thirty days sober, oh, I don't
wanna, you know, be lie to you, but I that'shere's my reason.
I relapsed again.
And, you know, the last word she I rememberthat day was like, you'll never see the kids as
long as I live.
You did it again.
Clinic.
You know?
And and so motivation.
(23:23):
Here's my thing that I've learned that pain isa great motivator.
Pain you know, when I made that promise,instead of using that pain to go do something
negative, I learned to do the opposite.
Right?
Like, for instance, I don't wanna go to ameeting today because I don't feel good or, you
know, I'm in a bad mood.
I I would tell myself because my sponsor helpedme think of it this way too.
(23:48):
He goes, contrary action, which means if youfeel that way, I want you to go to a meeting.
So I would do that.
Regardless.
Yeah.
Mhmm.
Regardless of how I felt.
Even if I was truly sick, right, I would go toa meeting and I'd sit away from everybody, but
I told myself, hey.
I made this promise to God and to my sponsorand to myself.
Mhmm.
I'm gonna be here.
So my first three years sober, I went to twomeetings a day every day, seven days a week.
(24:12):
That's amazing.
Wow.
Good.
Congratulations.
And, you know, that was the first step.
That was the first step.
Yes.
You know, but what I found too is where a lotof people get turned off by 12 steps.
Right?
They say, well, they tell you you're powerless.
Well, yeah, I'm powerless over the drinking andthe drugging once I start.
But how it was put to me by my sponsor is ifyou stay sober one day at a time, you have
(24:37):
power.
You have power.
The power.
You're you're you have power over your attitudeand how you treat people and yourself.
So as long as you don't take your drink or adrug, he goes, there's always hope, and there's
power in that.
And it started to stick, like, differently.
And, you know, and I I started to hang aroundpeople that might not have always shared in a
(25:02):
meeting, but when they did, it was veryprofound for me because they would share
something from the heart.
And it you could tell it wasn't to look goodbecause I could tell you my first six months
after I got out of jail, I I looked great in ameeting because I could quote the big book.
You know, I could sound really good.
And then when I realized after my my lastrelapse, I said, now I can't recite the book.
(25:25):
Like, god took that away, so I have to actuallylook and but I'm there to help the new person
coming in to say, hey.
Recovery is possible.
Right?
Not look at me.
Look what I've done.
But yeah.
Look what I've done by staying sober one day ata time because I was there for my family when
my brother, my sister, and my mom all you know,I got to spend her last six months with her
(25:48):
every Monday night.
That was my night to spend with her.
And every Monday night, I would go down toOrange County and, you know, sit with her at
her assisted living and make sure she ate andshe was comfortable, and we watched movies
together or TV.
You know?
And fond memories.
Even though it's sad, there is fond memoriesbecause I you know, like, I was 49 at the time,
(26:10):
and she'd say, son, do you think it's 07:00?
It's probably time for you to go to bed.
And I would go I would go, mom, I'm 49.
I don't need to go to bed just yet.
I wanna sit here and watch TV you.
Right?
But Oh, it's so good.
Yeah.
You know?
But many gifts that I have gotten from thisjourney.
Right?
Like, two weeks I can tell you a little story.
Two weeks before, she passed, we were sittingwatching together a movie at her her place, and
(26:36):
I remember she was rubbing my leg, all good.
And I looked at her, and I said, mom, are youokay?
And she goes, yeah.
I'm okay.
She goes, I just wanna thank you for yourthirteen years of sobriety.
She goes, god answered my prayers.
And I get choked up because I didn't correcther.
I was fourteen years sober at the time.
But to hear your mom say that
Say that.
Yes.
But, I mean, the only thing I could come backwith is I said, thank you for never stopping
(27:00):
and praying for
So
I'm grateful you didn't stop, mom.
And we hugged each other and, you know what Imean, watched the rest of the show and, you
know, and I've got so many stories like
That is so cool.
That is so beautiful.
And that is so beautiful.
Thank you for sharing.
Mean, I like, you know, it's just so touching.
I was just getting goosebumps myself.
(27:20):
And, you know, those moments that thoseprecious moments that you've had with your
mother and she was able to see you, you know,sober was would just delight her heart.
So I can just that's so beautiful.
Can you share with us, Max, can you talk aboutthe power of identity transformation in the
(27:43):
recovery of in your development?
Yeah.
Well, how do I put this?
Right?
So
Take your time.
A lot of people, right, that dislike the 12step say, you know, well, you have to go into a
meeting and say you're an alcoholic or you'rean addict.
So that's what you're gonna stay.
(28:03):
But to me, that's not true.
Right?
I I have to identify because of the traditions,you know, associated with, like, say, AA.
Right?
They have their traditions.
Or if I go to an NA meeting, I say I I'm anaddict.
But it's not that's not my identity.
Right?
Like, my identity today is, yes, I'm arecovering person from addiction, but my
(28:27):
identity that I see it is I I'm a child of Godwho God has given him the blessing of being a
husband, a father, and a grandfather.
That you know?
So, like, I if I saw you on the streets, Alka,and we introduced you know, I wouldn't say, hi,
Alka.
My name is Max.
I'm an alcoholic.
Right?
I wouldn't you know?
And that's where I think people get confused.
(28:48):
But I I mean, and and that that's theiropinion.
That's fine.
But identity to me now means am I doing whatgod wants me to do?
Yes.
I being am I living in integrity?
Right?
So am I doing the same thing when no one'slooking or as if and if they're watching.
(29:10):
You know what I mean?
Like, I wanna be that's the legacy and theidentity I wanna leave my children and my
grandchildren is when they talk to people, theysaid, you know what?
Grandpa was you know, he always did what hesaid when he said he was gonna do it, and we
loved that.
And he always shot us straight.
You know, he was always honest with us.
And, you know, besides the work ethic and allthat stuff, that's you know, the money thing
(29:32):
would be great.
Yeah.
If I came you know, I would leave them, youknow, send them to college, but that's where my
identity lies.
Am I being the man that God Yes.
Always wanted me to be?
And, I try to do that every day.
I strive to be my best every day, and andtransformation, I believe, for all of us
happens every day.
(29:53):
Sometimes it's small increments.
Right?
Like, I was taught something, you know, smallsteps daily, which means right?
Just keep moving forward.
Move forward small steps daily.
And to keep it simple for me, this is what theysaid, Max, just 1% better than you were the day
before.
Yes.
(30:13):
You know what I and if if you start in Januaryand you end in December and can look back on
your life for that year, you go, wow.
I'm 365% better than I was a year before.
Right?
So it's kind of been my mantra over the years,you know, of twenty two years now.
How how many percentage am I better?
You know?
But I'm human.
(30:34):
I've taken steps back for backwards, notdrinking or drugging, but, like, in behavior.
But, luckily, I've had the help and the supportwhere I've done the work where I can catch
myself and go, oh, that's not good.
Like, if I did something to you, hey, Alka.
I need to apologize for what I said or whateverand catch it and and make amends right then and
there and, you know, correct my behaviorinstead of having someone go, Max, do you know
(30:58):
what you did over there?
You know?
Like, what do you mean?
I didn't do nothing.
Yes.
And
transformation is one of the things I live by,and that's kinda what my podcast is is about
resilience and transformation and having peopleshow the world, like, here's what I went
through.
You know?
And some were like, it almost killed me, butthis is how I transformed, and this is how
(31:20):
resilience looks and this is why I'm successfultoday.
Because one, I made the changes, and two, Ihelp other people now.
And that's I think me becoming a substanceabuse counselor after two years of sobriety has
helped my transformation over the yearsbecause, right, I can catch myself today if I'm
doing things that I don't like.
Like, why if if I'm telling him to do this, buthe or she are looking at me and go, you're
(31:44):
doing the same thing.
Why would I wanna do that?
Right?
Then I could go, oh, yeah.
That's right.
I'm not supposed to do that.
Mhmm.
But, you
know, but it helps keep me it's like my selfaccountability and trust me, I have I have a
lot of accountability partners that will, youknow, check me on things if I'm going
overboard.
But I think God has graced me with somehumility that, you know, I can catch myself.
(32:07):
Because now I realize it's people's recovery isgonna happen the way they want it to happen,
and I can't tell them to go to a meeting or dothis or that.
But I can guide them and say, hey.
I I think you can
do this or I suggest this.
And if you don't like it, you can always trysomething different.
But I used to be when I first became acounselor.
Was like, we don't do it this way.
(32:28):
I can't work with you because you're gonna die,and I can't watch you die.
Blah.
You know?
And then a couple people would say, Max, youneed to relax.
And so I've learned right?
And I think having kids and grandkids helphelps me become a better counselor too because,
like, what I try to teach, you know, certainthings in life to my clients is, like, would I
teach that to my kids or no?
(32:49):
Or would I teach that to my grandkid?
No?
Okay.
Then why am I doing it here?
Mhmm.
I guess to to a point, to an extent, it keepsyou humble.
Like you said, you know, you've got childrenand, you know, they always keep us grounded and
they keep us humble.
So I think that's kind of in that way, youknow, it's really good.
(33:09):
When life throws unexpected challenges, how doyou advise people?
So here, through my personal experience, right,I just shared with you my family.
Well, five years ago, I lost a granddaughter atthree months and we did, I should say, a
granddaughter at three months and a day old.
And then my oldest son from his addictionalmost died of a massive stroke.
(33:33):
I mean, he's over two years sober now doingwell.
But here's what I've learned, and I've learnedthis from some mentors even outside of recovery
where when that happens, I lean into it.
I lean what they call either embrace the suckor lean into the suck.
And what I mean by that is when we're goingthrough a tough time or there's a there's
(33:56):
something we need to learn from that challengethat we're going through, and that's what I
like to call them, like, challenges.
Right?
Because whatever you wanna call it, whetherit's god, the universe, Buddha, whatever,
right, there's a lesson you need to learn goingthrough that challenge that's gonna help you
become a better person once you get through it.
It may not seem like it at the moment, but whenyou do get through it and you learn that
(34:19):
lesson, you look back and you go, okay.
That's what I learned.
Then you can turn around and help someone elsethat may be going through the same thing.
Right?
And and I believe because, you know, god Ibelieve in god.
That's my faith is strong.
I think he has us go through those lessons sowe can help each other grow as human beings.
(34:40):
And and that's been my path even as a substanceabuse counselor and as a sober coach and
speaker and author is that if I can helpsomeone change their life that is going through
something very difficult, right, then I've donemy job.
That's where I feel my success lies.
(35:00):
It's not in the money, but I like I said,money's great, you know, that would all it
helps us pay our bills, but that's you get morefrom that joy when you go, wow.
I actually helped someone.
You know?
And now they're doing it to some you know,they're helping somebody else.
As you know, because I can see the big smile onyour face, it's that is to me what success
(35:20):
means.
Exactly.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
You know, success is, you know, how how youshow up not only for yourself, but how do you
show up for your family?
How do you show up in the ways that matters toyou the most that you're helping other
(35:41):
individuals?
And I had a smile on my face because I cantotally relate when I went through a very bad
divorce.
And, you know, I'm at a point in my life todaythat I wanna help women really help them
through the adversities that, you know, mostwomen, when we go through adversities, it's
(36:04):
like, oh, but I I can't do anything.
I I I'm not I'm not gonna be successful.
But you know what?
This is what I wanna change the narrative that,yes, you can.
When you allow yourself to break free from thatsituation, then, yes, you can start to rebuild
life.
So that's why I had a smile on my face becauseI too can relate as to what you know, how
(36:27):
you're helping individuals.
And can you walk us through a typical process,Max, of, the framework you use when supporting
other individuals?
First and foremost for me, I gotta remember, Ineed to meet them where they're at.
(36:47):
Mhmm.
Right?
Whether they're new in recovery or goingwhatever the situation may be.
And what I mean by that, because I have in thepast where I think, okay.
I'm gonna.
This is what I did.
Right?
And then you tell them, and I've hadindividuals look at me like, I have no clue
what you're talking about.
I'm not even there yet.
(37:07):
But I ask a lot of, you know, open endedquestions, obviously, to help find, one, what
the what is the the main problem they'restruggling with, and two, finding out where
they're at in that journey so that I can guidethem to the answers they're looking for without
trying to give them the answer.
(37:28):
Like, have them come up with their answers.
Because I have found a lot of the time in inthe field I work in in addiction is that you
have to guide them.
I think I say it's a must.
Right?
Because if you try to do it for them, they'renot gonna they're not gonna be Yeah.
They're not gonna wanna do it because they'relike, why should I do it?
(37:49):
Max is doing it for me or Hulk is doing it forme.
You know?
Right.
Right?
And as you know, like, going through, likelike, divorces, I wouldn't wish that on my
worst enemy.
Even, you know, people say they've had, like,you know, not nice to but they were cordial to
each other.
But it's still it's still horrible.
Right?
Because if there's kids involved or whetherit's not, you know, the feelings are still
(38:12):
there, like, hurt and anger and resentment andthis and that.
So Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's first and foremost is meetingthe client or the person I'm working with where
they're at and then just trying to become theirguide and asking the right question.
Right.
That they can find the answers so that at theend of it, they can go, wow.
(38:34):
I I did it.
Not Max or, you know, or so and so, but I didit.
Right?
And then the thank you is was, like, when theysay thank you for helping me.
You know, you helped me find the answer.
Yeah.
No.
That is amazing.
Absolutely.
And being a guide, and I love that because, youknow, you're a guide, you're a coach, you're a
(38:55):
mentor to these, you know, to your clients, andthey need to be the ones to find out as to what
is holding them back from the addiction thatthey've gone through.
So and I and I can I can totally understand?
You know, you have to you're just there as aguy, but they're the patient, you and your
(39:17):
clients, they have to be the one to to see thatthat they have so much potential.
And here's here's another curious question isthat, you know, anyone who's going through that
dark moment in their lives, right, of traumaand, you know, addiction is that's that dark
(39:41):
moment just like a divorce.
Everyone has potential.
You know?
And oftentimes when, you know, people mightsay, your friend's family, oh, but, you know,
he's a loser.
She's a loser.
And but, you know, you're not.
You know, that's just a narrative that we aretold, that we are put upon us.
(40:01):
You know, you're a loser.
You're not gonna be successful.
Who said you're gonna be successful?
But then we gotta see our potential.
We can.
Yes.
We are.
How do you reframe the positive to thenegativity that your your clients have been
used to?
How do you get them out of that funk thatthey've always been in?
(40:26):
So I'm glad you asked that question becausethis is what I do.
And even with the ones that struggle with, youknow, a higher power or the god thing.
Right?
Mhmm.
And it always catches their attention no matterwhat.
And I I say because I'll hear them say I'm notworth it.
You know?
I'm I'm better off.
You know?
You know, I do better in jail or prison becausethat's what I'm used to.
(40:49):
And and I go, look.
I tell him, I look him in the eyes, and I say,you are a child of God.
God does not have any grandchildren.
We are all children of God.
Right?
And they go, well, yeah.
Okay.
And I said, well, God doesn't make junk.
You're not junk.
You deserve the best sobriety possible.
(41:11):
And I have found when I've done that with myclients, they actually get a glimmer of hope
like someone actually believes in me.
And I said and then I follow-up like you said.
I said, we gotta change the way you talk toyourself.
Gotta I said, I understand we've done thingswhere, you know, that it that that we that
(41:31):
would is the response we get because of ouraddiction.
But I said, today is the first day.
I said, if you woke up sober today, which youhave, I said I said, you're a miracle.
Right?
Because our DNA tells us we're supposed to puta drink or a drug in our system.
And I said, you woke up sober today.
(41:52):
I said, and if you go to bed sober withouthurting anybody or yourself, I said, you've had
a perfect day in sobriety.
And that's all I want you to think about.
And they look at me like, wow.
That's easy.
Yeah.
Oh, no.
I go, it's simple.
It's not easy, but it's simple if you just lookat it from that lens.
And I said Right.
I believe that you deserve the best sobrietypossible.
(42:15):
So if I believe that, why can't you?
So let's start working on it.
And then I'll give them assignments to do, youknow, like a gratitude journal start, you know,
changing like, neuroscience says, you startputting positive things in your brain first
thing in the morning, and at night before yougo to bed, you'll build new neural pathways.
Right.
But that one is a hard thing to do because theyjust don't some of them just don't have the
(42:38):
attention or the want to do that, but some ofthem do.
And it's you know, I said, all I can do is youknow, give you these suggestions.
I go, and and I always let them know everythingI'm teaching you, I've done myself.
So don't think I'm making you do something thatI haven't done.
And that always makes them feel comfortabletoo.
You know?
And slowly they you know, not everybody, butmost of them will open up and go, wow.
(43:01):
I've never heard that before because I've beencalled the you know what my whole life.
I said, well, you're not.
You've made bad choices.
That's it.
But in God's eyes, you're perfect.
Right?
We just gotta change some behaviors and somethinking.
Right?
You got that stinking thinking as they call it.
We gotta change that.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's what
I think.
Right.
And that's such a great point, and that isreally you know, I love that.
(43:25):
It's very powerful.
And I was listening to, Lewis Howes, and Ithink he was he was talking about his brother.
He was also in jail.
And I didn't know about that story, that sideof his story.
But anyhow, whilst he was in jail, he was with,these inmates who were extremely talented.
(43:46):
Now let's talk about talent.
You know, as I said, oftentimes, you know, withtheir family friends, you know, they always
throw the negativity.
Oh, but you want me successful.
Oh, but who says you have the talent?
And so, you know, that's what we are labeledwith, and that's what stays with us.
So his brother, once he was in jail, you know,they he became a great, you know, musician.
(44:12):
He was a saxophone player.
And then whilst in jail with the inmates, theywould have a time off where they would perform
outside of the jail in some communities.
But then that's how his brother found histalent.
And so now he was in jail, but once he began tofound his talent, he totally changed his whole
(44:37):
perspective of life.
What he was told when he went to jail and evenprior to going to jail and and the the guy that
he was, you know, he was told loser, but that'swhat he was told.
But now he's a life totally changed.
Right.
And so that's what happens.
You know?
So we need to find the talents.
And how do you what is your your thoughtprocess that is it the talent that makes us
(45:06):
great, or are we great?
And then we find our talents.
Doesn't matter what stage of life that we'rein, whether it's, you know, an addiction or non
addiction or an addict, but what is yourthought of mind?
Is it the the talent that makes us or how justshare with me.
Well, what I that brings up a great point.
(45:27):
Right?
This is what I learned when I was when I firststarted jujitsu.
Okay.
I haven't done it in a while because of myback, but I love, the instructor who are as in
jujitsu, we call them professor if they're ablack belt, would always tell us hard work will
be talent every day.
(45:48):
Yes.
So what that meant to me and that and that wasin the program too.
You know, in my 12 step program, what I what Ifound was the people that I gravitated to after
my last relapse were the ones that were workinghard.
They weren't coming into meetings and saying,look what I'm doing, but you could see how hard
(46:11):
they were working at their recovery.
Just when they did share what they shared orhow they treated people.
So that's kinda how I approach, you know, someof my practices.
It's like, you know, you could be the mosttalented person here in this whole facility.
But if you're not willing to do the work, thattalent ain't gonna mean nothing to anybody.
(46:32):
So I try to frame it in a way where I'm like,if you work hard, your talent will come out and
everyone will see it.
You know?
Everyone will see what kind of person you are.
Let your because I here's what happened to meis, like, someone told me one day, Max right?
(46:54):
Because this is like I told you before when Iwanted to look at.
Right?
They said, Max, while you judge yourself byyour intentions, the world's judging you by
your actions.
And it really didn't sink in until my lastrelapse, and it came back to me, and I'm like,
yep.
Like, now I know why these some of these peoplein the meetings are looking at me all crazy.
(47:14):
Right?
Because I I I think god humbled me enough whereI didn't react, right, to some of the people in
the meetings.
That can take some constructive criticism.
But before, I would like, the old me, like, onthe street.
Yeah.
What are you talking about?
Like, you can't talk to me that way and blahblah blah.
More reactive.
Yeah.
More reactive.
Right?
I've learned to re you know, I've learned torespond more than react.
(47:37):
Am I perfect at it?
Absolutely not.
But I think that's where that talent comes in.
Right?
We we work hard on whatever it is.
Right?
And it comes out like, I think my superpower isconnecting with people.
Like, I just can like, my wife will say, we cango into the store and you can talk to anybody.
Like, you just bring up a conversation andpeople will talk to you the whole time we're in
(47:59):
the store.
And I said, well, it's kinda like my job.
I have to learn how to connect on you know?
But and it runs in my family too.
All the guys are like that.
We can go to you know, we my mom, I think, gavethat superpower to us because I remember we'd
be at a restaurant and she would just startspeaking to some strange.
Hey.
How are you doing?
(48:20):
Oh, you know?
And they would have this conversation, and we'dlike, mom, I thought you were having dinner or
lunch with us.
Like
but I learned
right?
But I learned talent you can you can betalented but not do the work and so talent
doesn't show.
But you could work hard and do something andyour talent starts to grow, I believe.
(48:44):
That's what I've learned.
And I think that's how I try to help myclients.
I said, you know, you're not where you need tobe right now, but this is where you need to
start and, right, like, start working.
And I give them small steps.
Right?
Because I want them at the end of the week tosay, hey.
I did I accomplished this, this, and this thatyou gave me.
Right?
Because if I give them too much, I know, like,for me, if I get overwhelmed and I don't do it,
(49:05):
I'm like You
don't do it.
You don't do it.
Right?
But if you give them small things, and I knowif I do small things over the week, I can look
back at my week and go, hey.
I did pretty good.
I accomplished, you know, 80% of what I wantedto do.
And but that's, you know, transformation,resilience.
I mean, that all as you and I know, Alka, like,you will get the same lesson over and over
(49:30):
until you learn it.
Right?
And that's where the universe or god will say,I'm trying to help you, right, with your talent
and help you grow, but you're not listening tome.
So I'm gonna show you this again and again andagain if I to.
Thanks.
But that's why I think I think one of the keysto talent and all that what we're talking about
is having an open mind because a lot of theguests that I've interviewed lately on my and
(49:57):
I'm sure you'll agree, have taught me that weare spiritual beings having a human experience.
Right?
And we're I
love that.
Yes.
All here to to connect and be kind and to helpeach other.
And I've since I've it's like that message isloud and clear now and, you know, and I
hopefully I'm I'm, you know, portraying that toyour audience and to you because I believe
(50:18):
that.
Like, we're all here to help each other, notharm each other and connect, and let's see how
we can make this world a better place.
That is beautiful.
Can you talk about the part I think you mighthave talked about it, the power of identity and
transformation in your recovery anddevelopment.
Yeah.
I think we talked about that.
(50:38):
What is the legacy you want to leave, and whatdo you want to be known for after you leave
this earth?
Right.
So That's
a two step process.
Two step question.
I love it.
So my identity in the beginning used to be I'mgonna be this super sober guy that just
(51:00):
everybody knows.
Right?
And then I realized that's not what I want.
That's not my identity.
What we talked about is what my I want mylegacy to be and my identity is that I lived in
integrity each and every day, and I did my bestto help others every day.
Right?
So when my grandkids or my kids or, you know,my great grandkids speak about me, I hope it's
(51:24):
like grandpa said what he meant and he meantwhat he said.
And he did what he said he was gonna do everytime he said he was gonna do it.
Right?
And that's and that he loved us and was kindand caring, and that's what I wanna leave the
world.
Right?
Like, I want every when people look back whenI'm gone and say, like, Max cared.
(51:46):
Like, let's look let's take a look at his life.
Here's all these moments he showed how much hecared about other people.
And, you know, and that's that's my hope.
My legacy is that they say they say, you know,Max was the guy that said he he was the same
guy when no one was looking.
Let's put it simple.
He was the same guy when no one was lookingjust as much as if they were looking.
(52:10):
That's if I could say it in that way, that'swhat I wanted my legacy to be.
That is beautiful.
So, Max, your final question, you're a speaker,you're a podcast host.
How do these platforms amplify your message andimpact the world?
(52:31):
Well, I can't say much much about I haven'tspoke much lately, but I think the platform of
having a podcast like, you know, like, bringingguests on that could really share you know, I
have become it's like I'm the medium.
Right?
Like, okay, god.
You put the guests in front of me.
I will interview them, and we'll see what theirmessage is.
(52:52):
And having that platform to allow people gettheir message out of hope, of love, of
compassion, and kindness, I think has helped meget better as a podcast host and has allowed me
to have amazing guests.
(53:13):
I always call them special and amazing becausetheir messages are just beyond this world to
me.
Right?
Because it's a message of hope.
Here because I that's what I heard.
Like, the last five guests were all pretty muchin their own way saying, we are spiritual
beings having a human experience.
How can I help you, Max?
And I'm like, do you mean?
How can you help me?
(53:33):
I'm like, how can I help you?
Right?
And we just have a a great conversation likeyou and I are.
And I think even today, right, people are gonnasee this conversation and go, wow.
Those are amazing people because they trulywanna help people, like, grow it as a human
being.
Right?
And I think that those platforms have allowedme to have people become who they were are
(53:56):
meant to be or at least show the world who theyare and that the world isn't as crazy.
Even though you and I know some places iscrazy, but
we Yeah.
We can all come together and be one and and andlove on each other and help each other and make
this world a brighter place.
Absolutely.
And that's what it's all about.
(54:16):
It doesn't matter, you know, as long as youhave that perspective of, you know, it is love.
And not many people, like, see it that waythat, you know because there's there's so much
hate.
There's so much hate around and but, you know,we embrace the love, and it doesn't matter what
any anyone is going through.
You know, we get through it so much better.
(54:38):
Right.
So, Max, I wanna thank you.
And I first of all, I really want toacknowledge you.
I wanna acknowledge you for everything, youknow, those dark moments in your life that
you've gone through.
But I wanna acknowledge you, the work that youhave done today and the work that you're doing
(55:00):
and you continuously do.
You pour your heart out, and you've dedicatedyour life to helping others to break free from
the, you know, the challenges from theaddiction, the trauma, those dark times, and to
live a life of their dreams.
And so I wanna acknowledge you, Max, for, youknow, doing the great work that you're doing
(55:25):
today.
Thank you so much.
That means a lot to me, Altra.
Absolutely.
And so we have come to the end of anotherpowerful conversation with Max Nyst.
And I wanna thank Max for joining us today, andI want to also acknowledge each and every one
(55:48):
of you from for tuning in because Max hasshared invaluable insights on overcoming
trauma, addiction, and also the toughestobstacles that he has gone through.
But, also, he's here to help each and everyone.
And Max and I want to also let you know that itdoesn't matter what you're going through.
(56:12):
It doesn't matter what the adversity is thatyou are you are, you know, you're overcoming or
you've you know, you're in that situation rightnow, but you you know, there is help, and we
want you to, you know, seek help.
And, Max, can you share with us where canpeople find you, and how can we support you?
(56:33):
Alright.
There so I'm on all the social media.
So on Instagram, I'm under the fearlesshappiness ninja.
I'm on Facebook at max dot nyst.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm on TikTok.
Any any of the social medias that you couldlook.
(56:54):
And I also have a website at maxnyst ormaxnicey.
Sometimes, I'll I say my name wrong accordingto my brother because but I've heard my family.
I know we're off track, but it's nice toeverybody.
So maxnice.org, and you could find out what Ido there.
I have written a book.
It's called fearless happiness, my addiction,my battles, my recovery.
(57:17):
And book number two is coming out in Januarycalled fearless resilience.
So yeah.
And you can find those on Amazon.
The next one coming out in January will be onAmazon, and the other one is on Amazon.
And, yeah, any any or at like I said, you couldemail at email me if you have any questions at
max@maxnice.com.
(57:41):
Okay.
Perfect.
And we will put that in the show notes.
And so, you know, get Max's book that's gonnabe available on Amazon as it's gonna come out
in January.
And we wanna thank each and every one of youfor for tuning in, and thank you, always.
Until next time.
(58:02):
We look forward to your company.
Be strong, and we will see you next time.
Bye for now.
Thank you so much, Max.
That was amazing.
That was a very powerful conversation.
Everyone, welcome to another episode of askingexperts podcast.
Today, we are gonna take a deep dive intotransformation and resilience.
Today, we have a very special guest, Max Nyst.
Max is a motivational speaker.
He's an author and podcast host.
(00:26):
Max will be sharing his journey oftransformation with resilience, but also he is
a recovering addict, and I am pleased to say hehas been sober for twenty years.
Max has dedicated his life to helping othersbreak free from the struggles and build a life
(00:51):
they truly deserve.
In this episode, Max will be sharing hispowerful journey of recovery and the mindset
shift that has really helped to shape his path.
He will also be sharing practical wisdoms foranyone who is facing the obstacle, the
(01:14):
challenges, and who feel insurmountablepressure or challenge in their life.
Let's get started.
Welcome to the show, Max Neist.
Thank you for having me, Alco.
Honor is all mine.
Thank you for being it's been a crazy morningalready here for me and you know?
(01:35):
But I am so honored to be here.
Thank you.
Welcome.
Max, share your story.
You've been sober for twenty years.
Can you share with us what was the turningpoint that decided that made you decide to
change your life so profoundly?
(01:59):
Well, just to Were
Were there a moment or moments?
There are many moments.
Right?
So it's been twenty two years now.
I turned twenty two years clean and sober inSeptember, and I will Congratulations.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I will try to give you the condensed version,but, you know, in this journey that I've been
on, there's been many moments.
(02:20):
Right?
And I'll give you like, for example, one of thefirst moments I knew that change had to happen,
I was sitting in jail for the last time, and Iwas having this conversation with my cellmate
or my bunkmate as they call them because wewere on bunks.
And I was, you know, I was in this moment ofself pity and poor me and, you know, blah blah
(02:43):
blah.
And I remember telling him, you know, like, Ireally love my kids and and the gentleman,
right, just let me keep going.
I kept, like, poor me.
And and then when he goes, are you done?
And I said I said, yeah.
And he said, well, if you love your kids somuch, what are the f are you why are the f are
(03:04):
you doing here?
Like, in not so nice terms.
And, you know, back in those environment,right, I jumped down because, you know, you
that was a form of disrespect.
Right?
So I thought he stood up.
I stood up.
We're nose to nose, and I thought, okay.
We're gonna fight here.
But something came over me where I was like,he's he's so right.
(03:28):
Like, he's so correct.
And I looked at him, and I said, you're right.
And he goes I go, I gotta change.
And I said I thanked him, and I gave the guy ahug.
And he goes, yeah.
Go get out of here and and go get back to yourkids because, you know, my addiction took me
away from my kids for nine years.
(03:48):
And a little story about that is when I gotinto the thick of my addiction and, you know,
my ex wife had enough of me, she took the kidsout of state without telling me, and it crushed
me.
It crushed me.
So what happened when she came back nine monthslater, I remembered this.
Here is one of those moments.
Right?
I remember I had borrowed a friend's car, and Iwas sitting in it.
(04:10):
It was a summer, really hot summer that time.
They had just moved back to Orange County, andshe said, hey.
The kids wanna see you.
Please be here.
And I said, okay.
So not wanting to miss that, I borrowed afriend's car, I I parked in front of her house,
and I fell asleep that night.
You know?
And and I'll never forget it.
Right?
I I the next day, it's hot.
I'm sweating.
(04:31):
Right?
I I hear a knock on the window, And I put theseat up, and there's my wife and my three kids.
And they're just and she's got this look of,like like, sadness, disgust.
My kids are looking at me, and I'll neverforget that feeling, Olga, of just that extreme
guilt and shame and going, they'll never see melike this again.
(04:55):
And that would lead me deeper into myaddiction, but I would not see my kids for the
next nine years.
And, I mean, I would just my addiction took meon a crazy path, right, where I like I just
explained in the last time I was in jail iswhen these moments started happening.
And another moment where I knew I had to changeis when my mother came to visit.
(05:17):
I was
two
weeks in, And, you know, I had been goingthrough this for years, so she came to visit.
And and before I could say a word, you know,she you know?
And like in the movies, they pick up the phone,right, through the glass, and I pick up my
phone.
Yeah.
And she looks at me in the eyes, and she says,I love you, son, but you're no longer welcome
at my home.
(05:38):
If you come near my home, I will call thepolice.
And if the neighbors see you and I'm not home,they're gonna call the police.
What are you gonna do?
You know?
And I still get goosebumps thinking about itbecause that was another moment.
You know, at first, I'm like, I don't know.
And that's what I told her.
I said, I don't know.
And she started crying, and I'm like, why areyou crying?
You get to go home.
(05:59):
I have to go back and go sit in this.
And she goes out you know, hearing her say thatwas the best answer you ever gave me.
Mhmm.
Right?
Because of all the prior empty promises.
Oh, yeah.
I promise I'll get a job, or I'll go back toschool, or I'll be good to you, mom, and I'll,
you know, I'll I'll I'll do what I have to toget the kids back so you could be a grandma.
(06:20):
I mean, I can't tell you how many emptypromises I, you know, broke because of my
addiction.
Right?
Because once I start drinking and using drugs,all that flies out the window.
And but there have been many moments.
And even in my recovery where, you know, Ilost, like, nine years ago.
Now I lost excuse me.
(06:42):
I lost my first, I lost my sister.
Eight months later, my brother would lose hisbattle to addiction, and he would take his own
life while I was moving out of state.
And then six months to the day, my mom wouldpass away literally alka of a broken heart on
thanksgiving day nine years ago.
(07:02):
That's so amazing.
Yeah.
And I would put my daughter, my youngestdaughter, into treatment for the first time
that following Monday.
So there's been moments, like but those weremoments where I said, gotta stay on the path.
Like, I'm not gonna use this as a reason to gopick up a drink, or go do some drugs, right, to
(07:22):
to numb the pain, which I did.
You know, a lot of the pain, I I numb because Ididn't wanna feel that uncomfortable pain
feeling, right, of of not being a dad, beingdivorced, right, being a lousy son, and being a
a a lousy brother.
You know, and because I'll I'll I'll let youknow that, like, shame and guilt is probably
(07:44):
the biggest emotions or feelings that willkeep, an alcoholic or a drug addict in their
disease or in their addiction because it getsso great.
You know, the only thing you know when youdon't have the tools, the only thing you know
is, like, I know what will make this go away.
Even if it's for a minute, but I'm gonna do Andthen, you know, the patterns, it just gets
(08:08):
worse.
Nothing gets better.
And, you know, it was it it's been quite a ridefor twenty two years and but I wouldn't trade
it for the world because I'm sitting here withyou today, which, you know, like, if I would've
kept going, we you and I wouldn't have thisconversation because there would be like, who
is Matt?
True.
Yes.
You know?
Exactly.
Yeah.
(08:29):
Yeah.
But, I love it.
Go ahead.
I mean, I could talk for hours about this, butI know we have a limited time.
Well, no.
Absolutely.
I can totally I can totally understand.
You know, I was just talking to a friend ofmine who also went through his sister.
He's got two two sisters, and one of his eldersister last year passed away from fentanyl.
(08:53):
And then his youngest sister also so and shewas on the streets.
The older sister was on the streets inVancouver, and she was she was a drug addict.
She was taking, you know, heroin and but shedied of fentanyl.
So and the youngest sister, his younger sisteris also a drug addict, but I can only imagine
(09:17):
that that you shared the emotion.
The emotion side as of an addict is one ofguilt and shame because, you know, when you're
facing those moments, those dark moments inyour life for whatever reason that you're
taking drugs, it only affects not justyourself.
(09:39):
You know, you're maybe you're just kindaharboring yourself, but it affects the family.
Like, I mean, you know, and guilt and shamebecause your family are thinking, well, you
know, what are you doing?
And, so can you also share?
Because I'm just very curious to know whenthose moments happen to any, addict.
What is happening?
What goes through their mind?
(10:01):
What was going through your mind?
So I had it put to me this way, which made verymuch sense at the time.
Right?
When I was newly sober and I would I have asponsor, still have the same sponsor, but I
have, like, many mentors, you know, that havebeen sober many more years than I have.
So I would always ask them, you know, like, whyis it it's how do I put it?
(10:29):
It when you start going through those feelings,right, especially, like, when I was married
yeah.
I was married young, but I I I took my vowsserious.
So when that world started to fall apart andhow do I put it?
You know, you start feeling less than because,okay, I've in my head, I failed as a father.
(10:51):
I failed as a husband.
I don't know.
The not having any, like, a father.
My father died when I was So and that's not theexcuse, but what I'm saying is, like, not
having those examples of what, you know, afather should do or having anyone to go to when
that divorce went through.
(11:12):
Like, I had nobody.
And my mom was older, so she really she wouldlook at me like I don't know what to you know,
she had been divorced many times herself, but,you know, she her husband her third husband
died while they were married, obviously.
But she would look at me like, I don't knowwhat to tell you because I wasn't perfect.
I would see that look in her eyes.
(11:32):
Like, I wasn't perfect.
You know, I had two previous marriages.
Like, how do I help you?
And, you know, and and not having the tools orany not having for me, it was like, I felt like
I had no one to talk to.
So when those feelings would come up, I didn'thave an outlet.
Right?
So my outlet became alcohol at in thebeginning.
(11:55):
Right?
Drinking and going to a bar and, you know, alittle dive bar and and talking to people, you
know, like, just the movies.
You know?
You talk about your problems.
You have a drink.
But as it got worse, like, instance, when Itold you she took my kids without my knowledge
to another state, that was a whole new level.
Then it was like for me, it was like proof Ifailed.
(12:19):
So here's what I'm gonna do.
Plus, didn't want you know, because at thetime, yes, I was drinking and and but my kids
having them every weekend kept me together longenough to to, like, get through the week, and
they go, okay.
I have my kids.
Cool.
Like, I'm and I would tell people, don't comeover.
It's my kids and I.
It's my weekend with them.
(12:40):
I don't wanna be bothered.
And for the most part, a lot of people wouldrespect that.
But when that was taken away, you can onlyimagine.
Right?
Like, then it was like because I had no idea.
I came home from work, there was a message onthe on the answering machine.
And, call me at this number, and it wasn't aCalifornia area code.
So when I called it, I'd I'll never forget.
(13:02):
You know, I asked her.
I said, where are you at?
She said, I'm in Nebraska, and I'm not cominghome.
Wow.
It's a long way off.
Yeah.
My heart that's what I'm saying.
My heart dropped out of my body.
I didn't I couldn't even speak to her afterthat.
I just, you know, I I and that's when I waslike, okay.
I know what my little brother's doing.
I know what my friends are doing.
(13:23):
Some of them over here are doing the drugs, andI'm I'm gonna go find them now because I really
don't wanna feel this pain, but I don't knowhow to handle it otherwise.
Right?
That was the only tool I know, and it justspiraled really quickly out of control because
you know?
And and what I would tell someone who's goingthrough the same thing, don't be afraid to ask
(13:45):
for help.
There's people out there.
They may not be in addiction, but there'stherapists.
There's people that will understand that mayjust listen to you because sometimes that's all
we need is someone to hear us.
Right?
And and I felt like I had no one to hear thatpain I was going through.
So I felt like I had to carry it myself, andthat was that was a big reason I look back now
(14:08):
as I've done the work is why I drank and used.
It's like, oh, no one wants to bother with me,so I know what I'll do.
Right?
That's true.
Mhmm.
You know, I don't know how to ask for help, butI know what will take care of the pain.
Yes.
But I think in those moments, you know, you'rejust kinda, like, numbing the pain because I
think that's what, you know, happens thatyou're just kinda taking the drugs or taking
(14:33):
the, alcohol or anything, but you're just kindajust numbing the pain just temporarily, but
it's not exactly, getting to the root cause ofaddiction.
So let's talk about how has your journeythrough trauma shaped your life today?
Because, obviously, you know, you have you hadto you've done a lot of work, and it always
(14:56):
takes a lot of inner work for anyone to be inthat situation, but to do that inner work.
So how has your journey shaped your life today?
And what has been some of the approaches thatyou help others as well to overcome their
challenges?
Right.
(15:17):
I'm glad you asked that.
That's a great question because, like, when Iwas getting in trouble because of my addiction,
right, like, for instance, like, that time Itold the last time I was in jail, I was
actually looking maybe at three years in prisonbecause I had done nothing the judge that I was
seeing or at the courts had asked me to do.
(15:40):
So I had no idea what AA or NA or any 12 stepprocess was because I never did what the judge
asked me to do.
I never went to a meeting.
And so I'm grateful now as I look through thatjourney where the judge says, you're gonna do
this, this, and this.
And if you don't, then I will send you toprison.
Right?
Which I got introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous,and and, you know, this is my journey.
(16:03):
I'm not trying to promote anything, but it wasthe best thing that ever happened to me because
it put me in front of the right people at theright time and what I needed.
Right?
Like, some of them were, like, the strict,you're gonna do this with, like, the facility I
went to, or we'll kick you out and we'll callyour probation officer, and then you're gonna
(16:23):
go to prison.
Or you could do it our way, go to meetings, geta sponsor, work the steps.
Right?
And I had no idea what that meant, but I'm gladI did it and kept an open mind because I I
ended up relapsing four times in that placethat I went to.
Oh, wow.
Because the first when I first got there, I waslike, okay.
(16:45):
I'm gonna do I I wanna look good.
Right?
Keep the judge and the and the probation off,and I wanna look good in these meetings when I
realized that's not how I'm gonna get to theroot of the problem because I'm still being
surfaced.
I'm not digging deep.
But when I had that last relapse, okay, and itwas one day, one use, that feeling of guilt and
(17:07):
shame that came back brought me to my knees,and it was like, okay, god.
This is where god and I had a realconversation, and I said, okay, god.
If you keep me sober, I promise to do the workto stay sober, and then I will help other
people do the same.
And I did that.
(17:27):
What my sponsor suggested and he wasn't thekind of guy who's like, you gotta you have to
do this, this, and this.
Right?
But he would say, we're gonna do this.
Uh-huh.
Right?
And then he would remind me when I would go, Idon't wanna do this.
Right?
He would go, hey.
You said you would do anything.
And I say, you're right.
And but, you know, I've been through the steps,and it helped me realize, like, why I drank and
(17:52):
used.
So I'll go back a little bit to help explain toyour audience.
So when I was younger Mhmm.
Right, there's a lot of addiction that runs onboth sides of my family, and it's been proven
by science that DNA runs in you know, ouraddiction runs in your DNA.
Right?
Not everybody responds like I do, but mostpeople, if it's in your family, it's gonna
(18:14):
happen.
Right?
So but, like, on my mom's side, my herbiological father who was a prisoner of war
during World War two was shot by the Japanese,right, and became a drug addict because what
they did back then was just pull the bullet outand say, here's morphine.
Take it when you're in pain.
Right?
Not right?
Not like here where they educate us.
(18:35):
Right?
Like, be very addictive, so be careful.
Right?
Right.
Yeah.
And so not only did he get addicted, you know,to the morphine, he got he he became an
alcoholic according to my mother.
And then my mother tells me my dad was analcoholic, and there's a lot of alcoholics on
my dad's side of the family or people withmental health issues like bipolar, depression,
(18:58):
which, you know, I've I've suffered fromdepression in the past.
But so what I realized is that young me at 10okay.
I I hadn't seen my father because my mom andhim had divorced when we were young, when I was
five.
So I hadn't seen him in five or six years.
He came back.
I was 10 years old.
(19:18):
And the last promise he made to me was I haveto go back to The Philippines because and
finish some work, and then I promise I'll beback for your birthday.
So my birthday is in March.
This happened in January when I was 10 yearsold.
K.
So here comes March.
I turn 11.
No dad.
So, again, right, here comes April, then I findout my dad dies of a massive heart attack.
(19:42):
Oh.
But in my 11 year old mind, I was like, howdare you break that promise?
And I share this because that's what I lookback now.
It was like, broke a promise.
Like, to me as a like, how dare you die?
Like, you promised you would be here.
Right.
He told you.
Yeah.
Right.
Any son who wants to have a relationship withhis father, which was I was looking forward to
(20:05):
because he said he was coming back, I think, tolive in this state so I could spend more time
with him.
But so I realized later when I did the work,that was one of those resentments that I had
held towards my
dad.
Yes.
It drove me to go, Brian, I didn't like theanger I felt towards that.
I didn't like the hurt.
So what I do?
(20:27):
I found you know, at 13 years old, I foundalcohol and and marijuana.
And, you know, and one, it made me feel a partof.
Two, I didn't have to think about you know,because most of my friends had both parents.
And for me, it was hard.
I would my best friend back when we wereyounger, all his dad and him would always
invite me to their father son picnic that hiswork would hold.
(20:47):
And I would remember sitting on a bench just,like, away from everybody just feeling sad for
myself, but also at the same time, I'd beangry, like, very angry.
Like, this should be me and my dad.
You know?
My dad and I should be doing this too.
And and that was one of the root, you know,problems.
I mean, we can go to so many.
Right?
Like I told you, failure as a father, failureas a husband, failure as a like, all these
(21:12):
things that I look back at where I think Ifailed in my head where I started that
narrative was my reason to go, oh, I know it'sgonna fix this because then I don't have to
think about it.
Exactly.
Yes.
Exactly.
So it was it was this was like that, you know,shortcut.
But, so like I was saying is that, you know,you're you're putting like a Band Aid.
(21:34):
You're you know, anytime we have an addictionand I can only just imagine that what that you
know, what anyone goes through.
But it's just like a short term pain.
Short term.
And you're putting a Band Aid, and you're notgoing to the root root of the problem, what
role does motivation play when you arerecovering?
(21:59):
Okay.
That is a very good quest question.
Motivation.
Right?
Because, like I said, I've been sober now forso well, for twenty two years, for a long time
now.
Mhmm.
And, you know, I used to think I used to thinkmotivation was a thing.
But then I got involved in, like, personaldevelopment, and some of my favorite authors
(22:20):
like David Goggins, if you've heard of him.
Right?
Yes.
He
says excuse my lame.
Motivation is shit.
Like, there's no such thing.
Like, you're either gonna do it or you don't.
Right?
And so but I as I looked at my journey, therewas motivation because there was I can't I got
(22:41):
my children back, right, after a year ofsobriety when I relapsed that.
And there's another story behind that.
I started seeing the kids, and then I relapsed,and then I disappeared again.
So but after a year of being sober, you know, Iwas allowed to go see my mom at her house
because she told me, you know, until you get ayear, you can't come over.
I don't want you over here.
Mhmm.
(23:01):
And then, you know, my ex found out because Itold her at thirty days sober, oh, I don't
wanna, you know, be lie to you, but I that'shere's my reason.
I relapsed again.
And, you know, the last word she I rememberthat day was like, you'll never see the kids as
long as I live.
You did it again.
Clinic.
You know?
And and so motivation.
(23:23):
Here's my thing that I've learned that pain isa great motivator.
Pain you know, when I made that promise,instead of using that pain to go do something
negative, I learned to do the opposite.
Right?
Like, for instance, I don't wanna go to ameeting today because I don't feel good or, you
know, I'm in a bad mood.
I I would tell myself because my sponsor helpedme think of it this way too.
(23:48):
He goes, contrary action, which means if youfeel that way, I want you to go to a meeting.
So I would do that.
Regardless.
Yeah.
Mhmm.
Regardless of how I felt.
Even if I was truly sick, right, I would go toa meeting and I'd sit away from everybody, but
I told myself, hey.
I made this promise to God and to my sponsorand to myself.
Mhmm.
I'm gonna be here.
So my first three years sober, I went to twomeetings a day every day, seven days a week.
(24:12):
That's amazing.
Wow.
Good.
Congratulations.
And, you know, that was the first step.
That was the first step.
Yes.
You know, but what I found too is where a lotof people get turned off by 12 steps.
Right?
They say, well, they tell you you're powerless.
Well, yeah, I'm powerless over the drinking andthe drugging once I start.
But how it was put to me by my sponsor is ifyou stay sober one day at a time, you have
(24:37):
power.
You have power.
The power.
You're you're you have power over your attitudeand how you treat people and yourself.
So as long as you don't take your drink or adrug, he goes, there's always hope, and there's
power in that.
And it started to stick, like, differently.
And, you know, and I I started to hang aroundpeople that might not have always shared in a
(25:02):
meeting, but when they did, it was veryprofound for me because they would share
something from the heart.
And it you could tell it wasn't to look goodbecause I could tell you my first six months
after I got out of jail, I I looked great in ameeting because I could quote the big book.
You know, I could sound really good.
And then when I realized after my my lastrelapse, I said, now I can't recite the book.
(25:25):
Like, god took that away, so I have to actuallylook and but I'm there to help the new person
coming in to say, hey.
Recovery is possible.
Right?
Not look at me.
Look what I've done.
But yeah.
Look what I've done by staying sober one day ata time because I was there for my family when
my brother, my sister, and my mom all you know,I got to spend her last six months with her
(25:48):
every Monday night.
That was my night to spend with her.
And every Monday night, I would go down toOrange County and, you know, sit with her at
her assisted living and make sure she ate andshe was comfortable, and we watched movies
together or TV.
You know?
And fond memories.
Even though it's sad, there is fond memoriesbecause I you know, like, I was 49 at the time,
(26:10):
and she'd say, son, do you think it's 07:00?
It's probably time for you to go to bed.
And I would go I would go, mom, I'm 49.
I don't need to go to bed just yet.
I wanna sit here and watch TV you.
Right?
But Oh, it's so good.
Yeah.
You know?
But many gifts that I have gotten from thisjourney.
Right?
Like, two weeks I can tell you a little story.
Two weeks before, she passed, we were sittingwatching together a movie at her her place, and
(26:36):
I remember she was rubbing my leg, all good.
And I looked at her, and I said, mom, are youokay?
And she goes, yeah.
I'm okay.
She goes, I just wanna thank you for yourthirteen years of sobriety.
She goes, god answered my prayers.
And I get choked up because I didn't correcther.
I was fourteen years sober at the time.
But to hear your mom say that
Say that.
Yes.
But, I mean, the only thing I could come backwith is I said, thank you for never stopping
(27:00):
and praying for
So
I'm grateful you didn't stop, mom.
And we hugged each other and, you know what Imean, watched the rest of the show and, you
know, and I've got so many stories like
That is so cool.
That is so beautiful.
And that is so beautiful.
Thank you for sharing.
Mean, I like, you know, it's just so touching.
I was just getting goosebumps myself.
(27:20):
And, you know, those moments that thoseprecious moments that you've had with your
mother and she was able to see you, you know,sober was would just delight her heart.
So I can just that's so beautiful.
Can you share with us, Max, can you talk aboutthe power of identity transformation in the
(27:43):
recovery of in your development?
Yeah.
Well, how do I put this?
Right?
So
Take your time.
A lot of people, right, that dislike the 12step say, you know, well, you have to go into a
meeting and say you're an alcoholic or you'rean addict.
So that's what you're gonna stay.
(28:03):
But to me, that's not true.
Right?
I I have to identify because of the traditions,you know, associated with, like, say, AA.
Right?
They have their traditions.
Or if I go to an NA meeting, I say I I'm anaddict.
But it's not that's not my identity.
Right?
Like, my identity today is, yes, I'm arecovering person from addiction, but my
(28:27):
identity that I see it is I I'm a child of Godwho God has given him the blessing of being a
husband, a father, and a grandfather.
That you know?
So, like, I if I saw you on the streets, Alka,and we introduced you know, I wouldn't say, hi,
Alka.
My name is Max.
I'm an alcoholic.
Right?
I wouldn't you know?
And that's where I think people get confused.
(28:48):
But I I mean, and and that that's theiropinion.
That's fine.
But identity to me now means am I doing whatgod wants me to do?
Yes.
I being am I living in integrity?
Right?
So am I doing the same thing when no one'slooking or as if and if they're watching.
(29:10):
You know what I mean?
Like, I wanna be that's the legacy and theidentity I wanna leave my children and my
grandchildren is when they talk to people, theysaid, you know what?
Grandpa was you know, he always did what hesaid when he said he was gonna do it, and we
loved that.
And he always shot us straight.
You know, he was always honest with us.
And, you know, besides the work ethic and allthat stuff, that's you know, the money thing
(29:32):
would be great.
Yeah.
If I came you know, I would leave them, youknow, send them to college, but that's where my
identity lies.
Am I being the man that God Yes.
Always wanted me to be?
And, I try to do that every day.
I strive to be my best every day, and andtransformation, I believe, for all of us
happens every day.
(29:53):
Sometimes it's small increments.
Right?
Like, I was taught something, you know, smallsteps daily, which means right?
Just keep moving forward.
Move forward small steps daily.
And to keep it simple for me, this is what theysaid, Max, just 1% better than you were the day
before.
Yes.
(30:13):
You know what I and if if you start in Januaryand you end in December and can look back on
your life for that year, you go, wow.
I'm 365% better than I was a year before.
Right?
So it's kind of been my mantra over the years,you know, of twenty two years now.
How how many percentage am I better?
You know?
But I'm human.
(30:34):
I've taken steps back for backwards, notdrinking or drugging, but, like, in behavior.
But, luckily, I've had the help and the supportwhere I've done the work where I can catch
myself and go, oh, that's not good.
Like, if I did something to you, hey, Alka.
I need to apologize for what I said or whateverand catch it and and make amends right then and
there and, you know, correct my behaviorinstead of having someone go, Max, do you know
(30:58):
what you did over there?
You know?
Like, what do you mean?
I didn't do nothing.
Yes.
And
transformation is one of the things I live by,and that's kinda what my podcast is is about
resilience and transformation and having peopleshow the world, like, here's what I went
through.
You know?
And some were like, it almost killed me, butthis is how I transformed, and this is how
(31:20):
resilience looks and this is why I'm successfultoday.
Because one, I made the changes, and two, Ihelp other people now.
And that's I think me becoming a substanceabuse counselor after two years of sobriety has
helped my transformation over the yearsbecause, right, I can catch myself today if I'm
doing things that I don't like.
Like, why if if I'm telling him to do this, buthe or she are looking at me and go, you're
(31:44):
doing the same thing.
Why would I wanna do that?
Right?
Then I could go, oh, yeah.
That's right.
I'm not supposed to do that.
Mhmm.
But, you
know, but it helps keep me it's like my selfaccountability and trust me, I have I have a
lot of accountability partners that will, youknow, check me on things if I'm going
overboard.
But I think God has graced me with somehumility that, you know, I can catch myself.
(32:07):
Because now I realize it's people's recovery isgonna happen the way they want it to happen,
and I can't tell them to go to a meeting or dothis or that.
But I can guide them and say, hey.
I I think you can
do this or I suggest this.
And if you don't like it, you can always trysomething different.
But I used to be when I first became acounselor.
Was like, we don't do it this way.
(32:28):
I can't work with you because you're gonna die,and I can't watch you die.
Blah.
You know?
And then a couple people would say, Max, youneed to relax.
And so I've learned right?
And I think having kids and grandkids helphelps me become a better counselor too because,
like, what I try to teach, you know, certainthings in life to my clients is, like, would I
teach that to my kids or no?
(32:49):
Or would I teach that to my grandkid?
No?
Okay.
Then why am I doing it here?
Mhmm.
I guess to to a point, to an extent, it keepsyou humble.
Like you said, you know, you've got childrenand, you know, they always keep us grounded and
they keep us humble.
So I think that's kind of in that way, youknow, it's really good.
(33:09):
When life throws unexpected challenges, how doyou advise people?
So here, through my personal experience, right,I just shared with you my family.
Well, five years ago, I lost a granddaughter atthree months and we did, I should say, a
granddaughter at three months and a day old.
And then my oldest son from his addictionalmost died of a massive stroke.
(33:33):
I mean, he's over two years sober now doingwell.
But here's what I've learned, and I've learnedthis from some mentors even outside of recovery
where when that happens, I lean into it.
I lean what they call either embrace the suckor lean into the suck.
And what I mean by that is when we're goingthrough a tough time or there's a there's
(33:56):
something we need to learn from that challengethat we're going through, and that's what I
like to call them, like, challenges.
Right?
Because whatever you wanna call it, whetherit's god, the universe, Buddha, whatever,
right, there's a lesson you need to learn goingthrough that challenge that's gonna help you
become a better person once you get through it.
It may not seem like it at the moment, but whenyou do get through it and you learn that
(34:19):
lesson, you look back and you go, okay.
That's what I learned.
Then you can turn around and help someone elsethat may be going through the same thing.
Right?
And and I believe because, you know, god Ibelieve in god.
That's my faith is strong.
I think he has us go through those lessons sowe can help each other grow as human beings.
(34:40):
And and that's been my path even as a substanceabuse counselor and as a sober coach and
speaker and author is that if I can helpsomeone change their life that is going through
something very difficult, right, then I've donemy job.
That's where I feel my success lies.
(35:00):
It's not in the money, but I like I said,money's great, you know, that would all it
helps us pay our bills, but that's you get morefrom that joy when you go, wow.
I actually helped someone.
You know?
And now they're doing it to some you know,they're helping somebody else.
As you know, because I can see the big smile onyour face, it's that is to me what success
(35:20):
means.
Exactly.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
You know, success is, you know, how how youshow up not only for yourself, but how do you
show up for your family?
How do you show up in the ways that matters toyou the most that you're helping other
(35:41):
individuals?
And I had a smile on my face because I cantotally relate when I went through a very bad
divorce.
And, you know, I'm at a point in my life todaythat I wanna help women really help them
through the adversities that, you know, mostwomen, when we go through adversities, it's
(36:04):
like, oh, but I I can't do anything.
I I I'm not I'm not gonna be successful.
But you know what?
This is what I wanna change the narrative that,yes, you can.
When you allow yourself to break free from thatsituation, then, yes, you can start to rebuild
life.
So that's why I had a smile on my face becauseI too can relate as to what you know, how
(36:27):
you're helping individuals.
And can you walk us through a typical process,Max, of, the framework you use when supporting
other individuals?
First and foremost for me, I gotta remember, Ineed to meet them where they're at.
(36:47):
Mhmm.
Right?
Whether they're new in recovery or goingwhatever the situation may be.
And what I mean by that, because I have in thepast where I think, okay.
I'm gonna.
This is what I did.
Right?
And then you tell them, and I've hadindividuals look at me like, I have no clue
what you're talking about.
I'm not even there yet.
(37:07):
But I ask a lot of, you know, open endedquestions, obviously, to help find, one, what
the what is the the main problem they'restruggling with, and two, finding out where
they're at in that journey so that I can guidethem to the answers they're looking for without
trying to give them the answer.
(37:28):
Like, have them come up with their answers.
Because I have found a lot of the time in inthe field I work in in addiction is that you
have to guide them.
I think I say it's a must.
Right?
Because if you try to do it for them, they'renot gonna they're not gonna be Yeah.
They're not gonna wanna do it because they'relike, why should I do it?
(37:49):
Max is doing it for me or Hulk is doing it forme.
You know?
Right.
Right?
And as you know, like, going through, likelike, divorces, I wouldn't wish that on my
worst enemy.
Even, you know, people say they've had, like,you know, not nice to but they were cordial to
each other.
But it's still it's still horrible.
Right?
Because if there's kids involved or whetherit's not, you know, the feelings are still
(38:12):
there, like, hurt and anger and resentment andthis and that.
So Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's first and foremost is meetingthe client or the person I'm working with where
they're at and then just trying to become theirguide and asking the right question.
Right.
That they can find the answers so that at theend of it, they can go, wow.
(38:34):
I I did it.
Not Max or, you know, or so and so, but I didit.
Right?
And then the thank you is was, like, when theysay thank you for helping me.
You know, you helped me find the answer.
Yeah.
No.
That is amazing.
Absolutely.
And being a guide, and I love that because, youknow, you're a guide, you're a coach, you're a
(38:55):
mentor to these, you know, to your clients, andthey need to be the ones to find out as to what
is holding them back from the addiction thatthey've gone through.
So and I and I can I can totally understand?
You know, you have to you're just there as aguy, but they're the patient, you and your
(39:17):
clients, they have to be the one to to see thatthat they have so much potential.
And here's here's another curious question isthat, you know, anyone who's going through that
dark moment in their lives, right, of traumaand, you know, addiction is that's that dark
(39:41):
moment just like a divorce.
Everyone has potential.
You know?
And oftentimes when, you know, people mightsay, your friend's family, oh, but, you know,
he's a loser.
She's a loser.
And but, you know, you're not.
You know, that's just a narrative that we aretold, that we are put upon us.
(40:01):
You know, you're a loser.
You're not gonna be successful.
Who said you're gonna be successful?
But then we gotta see our potential.
We can.
Yes.
We are.
How do you reframe the positive to thenegativity that your your clients have been
used to?
How do you get them out of that funk thatthey've always been in?
(40:26):
So I'm glad you asked that question becausethis is what I do.
And even with the ones that struggle with, youknow, a higher power or the god thing.
Right?
Mhmm.
And it always catches their attention no matterwhat.
And I I say because I'll hear them say I'm notworth it.
You know?
I'm I'm better off.
You know?
You know, I do better in jail or prison becausethat's what I'm used to.
(40:49):
And and I go, look.
I tell him, I look him in the eyes, and I say,you are a child of God.
God does not have any grandchildren.
We are all children of God.
Right?
And they go, well, yeah.
Okay.
And I said, well, God doesn't make junk.
You're not junk.
You deserve the best sobriety possible.
(41:11):
And I have found when I've done that with myclients, they actually get a glimmer of hope
like someone actually believes in me.
And I said and then I follow-up like you said.
I said, we gotta change the way you talk toyourself.
Gotta I said, I understand we've done thingswhere, you know, that it that that we that
(41:31):
would is the response we get because of ouraddiction.
But I said, today is the first day.
I said, if you woke up sober today, which youhave, I said I said, you're a miracle.
Right?
Because our DNA tells us we're supposed to puta drink or a drug in our system.
And I said, you woke up sober today.
(41:52):
I said, and if you go to bed sober withouthurting anybody or yourself, I said, you've had
a perfect day in sobriety.
And that's all I want you to think about.
And they look at me like, wow.
That's easy.
Yeah.
Oh, no.
I go, it's simple.
It's not easy, but it's simple if you just lookat it from that lens.
And I said Right.
I believe that you deserve the best sobrietypossible.
(42:15):
So if I believe that, why can't you?
So let's start working on it.
And then I'll give them assignments to do, youknow, like a gratitude journal start, you know,
changing like, neuroscience says, you startputting positive things in your brain first
thing in the morning, and at night before yougo to bed, you'll build new neural pathways.
Right.
But that one is a hard thing to do because theyjust don't some of them just don't have the
(42:38):
attention or the want to do that, but some ofthem do.
And it's you know, I said, all I can do is youknow, give you these suggestions.
I go, and and I always let them know everythingI'm teaching you, I've done myself.
So don't think I'm making you do something thatI haven't done.
And that always makes them feel comfortabletoo.
You know?
And slowly they you know, not everybody, butmost of them will open up and go, wow.
(43:01):
I've never heard that before because I've beencalled the you know what my whole life.
I said, well, you're not.
You've made bad choices.
That's it.
But in God's eyes, you're perfect.
Right?
We just gotta change some behaviors and somethinking.
Right?
You got that stinking thinking as they call it.
We gotta change that.
Exactly.
Exactly.
That's what
I think.
Right.
And that's such a great point, and that isreally you know, I love that.
(43:25):
It's very powerful.
And I was listening to, Lewis Howes, and Ithink he was he was talking about his brother.
He was also in jail.
And I didn't know about that story, that sideof his story.
But anyhow, whilst he was in jail, he was with,these inmates who were extremely talented.
(43:46):
Now let's talk about talent.
You know, as I said, oftentimes, you know, withtheir family friends, you know, they always
throw the negativity.
Oh, but you want me successful.
Oh, but who says you have the talent?
And so, you know, that's what we are labeledwith, and that's what stays with us.
So his brother, once he was in jail, you know,they he became a great, you know, musician.
(44:12):
He was a saxophone player.
And then whilst in jail with the inmates, theywould have a time off where they would perform
outside of the jail in some communities.
But then that's how his brother found histalent.
And so now he was in jail, but once he began tofound his talent, he totally changed his whole
(44:37):
perspective of life.
What he was told when he went to jail and evenprior to going to jail and and the the guy that
he was, you know, he was told loser, but that'swhat he was told.
But now he's a life totally changed.
Right.
And so that's what happens.
You know?
So we need to find the talents.
And how do you what is your your thoughtprocess that is it the talent that makes us
(45:06):
great, or are we great?
And then we find our talents.
Doesn't matter what stage of life that we'rein, whether it's, you know, an addiction or non
addiction or an addict, but what is yourthought of mind?
Is it the the talent that makes us or how justshare with me.
Well, what I that brings up a great point.
(45:27):
Right?
This is what I learned when I was when I firststarted jujitsu.
Okay.
I haven't done it in a while because of myback, but I love, the instructor who are as in
jujitsu, we call them professor if they're ablack belt, would always tell us hard work will
be talent every day.
(45:48):
Yes.
So what that meant to me and that and that wasin the program too.
You know, in my 12 step program, what I what Ifound was the people that I gravitated to after
my last relapse were the ones that were workinghard.
They weren't coming into meetings and saying,look what I'm doing, but you could see how hard
(46:11):
they were working at their recovery.
Just when they did share what they shared orhow they treated people.
So that's kinda how I approach, you know, someof my practices.
It's like, you know, you could be the mosttalented person here in this whole facility.
But if you're not willing to do the work, thattalent ain't gonna mean nothing to anybody.
(46:32):
So I try to frame it in a way where I'm like,if you work hard, your talent will come out and
everyone will see it.
You know?
Everyone will see what kind of person you are.
Let your because I here's what happened to meis, like, someone told me one day, Max right?
(46:54):
Because this is like I told you before when Iwanted to look at.
Right?
They said, Max, while you judge yourself byyour intentions, the world's judging you by
your actions.
And it really didn't sink in until my lastrelapse, and it came back to me, and I'm like,
yep.
Like, now I know why these some of these peoplein the meetings are looking at me all crazy.
(47:14):
Right?
Because I I I think god humbled me enough whereI didn't react, right, to some of the people in
the meetings.
That can take some constructive criticism.
But before, I would like, the old me, like, onthe street.
Yeah.
What are you talking about?
Like, you can't talk to me that way and blahblah blah.
More reactive.
Yeah.
More reactive.
Right?
I've learned to re you know, I've learned torespond more than react.
(47:37):
Am I perfect at it?
Absolutely not.
But I think that's where that talent comes in.
Right?
We we work hard on whatever it is.
Right?
And it comes out like, I think my superpower isconnecting with people.
Like, I just can like, my wife will say, we cango into the store and you can talk to anybody.
Like, you just bring up a conversation andpeople will talk to you the whole time we're in
(47:59):
the store.
And I said, well, it's kinda like my job.
I have to learn how to connect on you know?
But and it runs in my family too.
All the guys are like that.
We can go to you know, we my mom, I think, gavethat superpower to us because I remember we'd
be at a restaurant and she would just startspeaking to some strange.
Hey.
How are you doing?
(48:20):
Oh, you know?
And they would have this conversation, and we'dlike, mom, I thought you were having dinner or
lunch with us.
Like
but I learned
right?
But I learned talent you can you can betalented but not do the work and so talent
doesn't show.
But you could work hard and do something andyour talent starts to grow, I believe.
(48:44):
That's what I've learned.
And I think that's how I try to help myclients.
I said, you know, you're not where you need tobe right now, but this is where you need to
start and, right, like, start working.
And I give them small steps.
Right?
Because I want them at the end of the week tosay, hey.
I did I accomplished this, this, and this thatyou gave me.
Right?
Because if I give them too much, I know, like,for me, if I get overwhelmed and I don't do it,
(49:05):
I'm like You
don't do it.
You don't do it.
Right?
But if you give them small things, and I knowif I do small things over the week, I can look
back at my week and go, hey.
I did pretty good.
I accomplished, you know, 80% of what I wantedto do.
And but that's, you know, transformation,resilience.
I mean, that all as you and I know, Alka, like,you will get the same lesson over and over
(49:30):
until you learn it.
Right?
And that's where the universe or god will say,I'm trying to help you, right, with your talent
and help you grow, but you're not listening tome.
So I'm gonna show you this again and again andagain if I to.
Thanks.
But that's why I think I think one of the keysto talent and all that what we're talking about
is having an open mind because a lot of theguests that I've interviewed lately on my and
(49:57):
I'm sure you'll agree, have taught me that weare spiritual beings having a human experience.
Right?
And we're I
love that.
Yes.
All here to to connect and be kind and to helpeach other.
And I've since I've it's like that message isloud and clear now and, you know, and I
hopefully I'm I'm, you know, portraying that toyour audience and to you because I believe
(50:18):
that.
Like, we're all here to help each other, notharm each other and connect, and let's see how
we can make this world a better place.
That is beautiful.
Can you talk about the part I think you mighthave talked about it, the power of identity and
transformation in your recovery anddevelopment.
Yeah.
I think we talked about that.
(50:38):
What is the legacy you want to leave, and whatdo you want to be known for after you leave
this earth?
Right.
So That's
a two step process.
Two step question.
I love it.
So my identity in the beginning used to be I'mgonna be this super sober guy that just
(51:00):
everybody knows.
Right?
And then I realized that's not what I want.
That's not my identity.
What we talked about is what my I want mylegacy to be and my identity is that I lived in
integrity each and every day, and I did my bestto help others every day.
Right?
So when my grandkids or my kids or, you know,my great grandkids speak about me, I hope it's
(51:24):
like grandpa said what he meant and he meantwhat he said.
And he did what he said he was gonna do everytime he said he was gonna do it.
Right?
And that's and that he loved us and was kindand caring, and that's what I wanna leave the
world.
Right?
Like, I want every when people look back whenI'm gone and say, like, Max cared.
(51:46):
Like, let's look let's take a look at his life.
Here's all these moments he showed how much hecared about other people.
And, you know, and that's that's my hope.
My legacy is that they say they say, you know,Max was the guy that said he he was the same
guy when no one was looking.
Let's put it simple.
He was the same guy when no one was lookingjust as much as if they were looking.
(52:10):
That's if I could say it in that way, that'swhat I wanted my legacy to be.
That is beautiful.
So, Max, your final question, you're a speaker,you're a podcast host.
How do these platforms amplify your message andimpact the world?
(52:31):
Well, I can't say much much about I haven'tspoke much lately, but I think the platform of
having a podcast like, you know, like, bringingguests on that could really share you know, I
have become it's like I'm the medium.
Right?
Like, okay, god.
You put the guests in front of me.
I will interview them, and we'll see what theirmessage is.
(52:52):
And having that platform to allow people gettheir message out of hope, of love, of
compassion, and kindness, I think has helped meget better as a podcast host and has allowed me
to have amazing guests.
(53:13):
I always call them special and amazing becausetheir messages are just beyond this world to
me.
Right?
Because it's a message of hope.
Here because I that's what I heard.
Like, the last five guests were all pretty muchin their own way saying, we are spiritual
beings having a human experience.
How can I help you, Max?
And I'm like, do you mean?
How can you help me?
(53:33):
I'm like, how can I help you?
Right?
And we just have a a great conversation likeyou and I are.
And I think even today, right, people are gonnasee this conversation and go, wow.
Those are amazing people because they trulywanna help people, like, grow it as a human
being.
Right?
And I think that those platforms have allowedme to have people become who they were are
(53:56):
meant to be or at least show the world who theyare and that the world isn't as crazy.
Even though you and I know some places iscrazy, but
we Yeah.
We can all come together and be one and and andlove on each other and help each other and make
this world a brighter place.
Absolutely.
And that's what it's all about.
(54:16):
It doesn't matter, you know, as long as youhave that perspective of, you know, it is love.
And not many people, like, see it that waythat, you know because there's there's so much
hate.
There's so much hate around and but, you know,we embrace the love, and it doesn't matter what
any anyone is going through.
You know, we get through it so much better.
(54:38):
Right.
So, Max, I wanna thank you.
And I first of all, I really want toacknowledge you.
I wanna acknowledge you for everything, youknow, those dark moments in your life that
you've gone through.
But I wanna acknowledge you, the work that youhave done today and the work that you're doing
(55:00):
and you continuously do.
You pour your heart out, and you've dedicatedyour life to helping others to break free from
the, you know, the challenges from theaddiction, the trauma, those dark times, and to
live a life of their dreams.
And so I wanna acknowledge you, Max, for, youknow, doing the great work that you're doing
(55:25):
today.
Thank you so much.
That means a lot to me, Altra.
Absolutely.
And so we have come to the end of anotherpowerful conversation with Max Nyst.
And I wanna thank Max for joining us today, andI want to also acknowledge each and every one
(55:48):
of you from for tuning in because Max hasshared invaluable insights on overcoming
trauma, addiction, and also the toughestobstacles that he has gone through.
But, also, he's here to help each and everyone.
And Max and I want to also let you know that itdoesn't matter what you're going through.
(56:12):
It doesn't matter what the adversity is thatyou are you are, you know, you're overcoming or
you've you know, you're in that situation rightnow, but you you know, there is help, and we
want you to, you know, seek help.
And, Max, can you share with us where canpeople find you, and how can we support you?
(56:33):
Alright.
There so I'm on all the social media.
So on Instagram, I'm under the fearlesshappiness ninja.
I'm on Facebook at max dot nyst.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm on TikTok.
Any any of the social medias that you couldlook.
(56:54):
And I also have a website at maxnyst ormaxnicey.
Sometimes, I'll I say my name wrong accordingto my brother because but I've heard my family.
I know we're off track, but it's nice toeverybody.
So maxnice.org, and you could find out what Ido there.
I have written a book.
It's called fearless happiness, my addiction,my battles, my recovery.
(57:17):
And book number two is coming out in Januarycalled fearless resilience.
So yeah.
And you can find those on Amazon.
The next one coming out in January will be onAmazon, and the other one is on Amazon.
And, yeah, any any or at like I said, you couldemail at email me if you have any questions at
max@maxnice.com.
(57:41):
Okay.
Perfect.
And we will put that in the show notes.
And so, you know, get Max's book that's gonnabe available on Amazon as it's gonna come out
in January.
And we wanna thank each and every one of youfor for tuning in, and thank you, always.
Until next time.
(58:02):
We look forward to your company.
Be strong, and we will see you next time.
Bye for now.
Thank you so much, Max.
That was amazing.
That was a very powerful conversation.
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