July 28, 2024 • 36 mins
Anthony Ryan knows how to tell a story. And that’s because he spends a huge amount of his time, connecting, supporting and fundraising for those less privileged. From a career that started as a Brisbane based teacher, to CEO of multiple national non for-profit organisations, he is now bringing his extraordinary empathetic and authentic leadership style to the role of CEO of Brisbane Economic Development Agency. Anthony shares openly his deep passion for the homeless in our community and the effect it’s had on his life. He openly and honestly owns his weaknesses, and reminds us all that being influential and successful largely rests on your ability to build deep relationships with others.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO Series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
True emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on
our about our fourth flight, and everybody thought, well, if
it's good enough for him, I can do it.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us
the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today, I'm thrilled
to be joined in the studio by the very charismatic
Anthony Ryan. Anthony is currently the CEO of the Brisbane
Economic Development Agency, responsible for driving the economic growth of
Brisbane City. Prior to this, Anthony was the CEO of
(00:50):
Young Care for five years, a national not for profit
organization revolutionizing the way young people with high kid disabilities live.
In fact, you will find much of Anthony's resume in
the space of the nonprofit sector and charities including the
MEMIKI and Edmund Rice FANDAI.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I was fortunate to meet you at two charity events
I'm for the Broncos and recently at the CEO sleep
at for Vinnie h. I got to witness firsthand your
mastery at getting people to fundraise. Anthony impressively raised over
twenty thousand by yourself for the event. But Anthony, I
thoroughly enjoyed doing a little bit of research on you.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I really did.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I was like, oh, oh every five seconds, starting with
the fact that you actually represented Australia at the World
Junior Athletics Championships and nineteen eighty eight in Canada.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, we so obviously you have a passion for sport.
Can you tell me a bit about your junior as
an athlete.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I was playing rugby at school and the school just
up the road here at school called Terrace, and I
wasn't a great rugby player, but I got quite a
bad injury, and so instead of playing rugby, i'd really
focus on track and field. I was just going to
be a hobby. And then I realized I was better
at it than I thought I would be, and sort
of quickly started improving. And then came to GPS, and
(02:03):
I think I surprised myself and won jeeps and then
went on one States and then went into the Australian
Australian Championships and then got selected in the Australian junior
team and sort of out of the blur. Really, my
coach was always there for rugby, called John Lucas's bloody legend.
But we surprised ourselves or who went there, and we
got a silver medal at the World Jeniors. We either
broke the world junior record in the semis. We had
(02:25):
an amazing team that all went onto fantastic things except
for myself in sport. And then in the final we
ended up getting second to the United States and they
broke the world junior record and the guy that was
the runner there in that who ran against me ended
up going on later on a couple of months later
to win the Olympics a year old wow forty three eight.
(02:46):
So I knew I was never going to be that good.
So I pretty much sort of was always a relay
runner in some ways, I planted the seeds in what
I did later on in life.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I was going to say so, also, I'm a beautiful
fit now that you're working with Beta and obviously going
to be part of the Olympics coming to Brisbane. That's
obviously it feels probably very close and special for you.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Absolutely well, Bristbane Economic Development Agency where there is a
support mechanism. Our work isn't really to do with the
Olympics per se, but we will be supporting Okog and
anyone that we can, particularly with utilizing Olympics as that
hook to drive the brand of our city investment and
to assist with getting those stadiums and things like that
(03:25):
up and running when someone makes the choice and the
decision to do something.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, right, exciting stuff. Now.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
At the CEO sleepout that we went to a month
or so ago, I was really moved by a story
that you shared on stage about your relationship with a
homeless man in Brisbane. You know, without having done any
research on you, I just automatically since there's deep passion
in you around homelessness. And then I read that there's
a bit of a backstory here. So how did that
all begin for you?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I was a teacher many years ago as I was
teaching economics. It was an inner city school and I
was totally buying away as we would come to school
as a wealthy It was terrorist. I went back to
teacher Terras and I said to the economics class, you
walk past homelessness every day. Why do you think the
street people are here? You know, some were sleeping in
the same street as Terrace and in the parks and
(04:11):
Victoria Park, et cetera. And there was a young fella
in grade elevenies and now I've become one of my mates,
actually because I was a young teacher. And he said,
because they're lazy, and if they got up off their ass,
they could get a job, sir. And I was a
standard by his answer, and so I said, who else,
who else feels the same way? And every person in
(04:31):
the class put the hand up and said, you know,
they're lazy. And so instead of getting angry and or
saying that they were wrong, I wanted to challenge that
because that's what teaching is. Teaching isn't about. It's allowing
people to arrive at an answer themselves, particularly in those
sort of profound moments of light bulb moments in life.
And so from that that became a trigger for me,
and I thought, Okay, well, how do I get these
kids to actually challenge their stereotypes? And so I started
(04:56):
this program about two months later called the Street Retreat Program,
where we would have an overnight experience living on the
streets of South Pars overnight and instead of of serving
the homeless, you're actually going to journey for twenty four
hours with them, and that would challengeh stereotypes. And we
started this van. On one of the first nights, I
brought that student out. His name was Gandhi, and we
(05:19):
took Gandhi out and five of his mates, and Gandhi
was sitting in the garter talking to this guy and
it was the first time these terrorist guys had already
ever seen anyone a homeless or not seen them, but
confronted them and was conversive with them. And the guy
shared with him that he used to go to a
school up the road, and Gandy was going, Oh, what
do you mean what we're talking about? He goes, oh,
(05:41):
you might not know it. It's a school called Terrace.
And Gandhi at that stage when wow, are you serious?
And what had happened for a series of things that
had happened in this guy's life, addiction took over ended
up being a semi permanent resident down in potanical gardens.
And that was the moment where I started realizing the
(06:01):
power of education. So Gandhi went from that night and
we'd always finish at the end and night just sitting
around and just chatting. What do you learn, what you see,
what made you feel uncomfortable, et cetera. And he shared
his story and the next day at that school, we
had a lineup of around about no exact eruation, about
one hundred kids outside my door asking whether they could
(06:21):
be involved in the program. And that started. It changed
the culture of a school. And then and it was
during that time I met a guy called Terry.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Met Terry, Yeah, wow, I love that.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I mean, you don't seem to have any of the
judgment or avoidance that people usually have when it comes
to homelessness. I mean, I think at the core of it,
there's something about homelessess that makes people feel afraid.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Or not want to think about it. Why is it
different for you?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I mean you've said that education is a part of it,
but is this anthing more?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah? For sure. When I started working the homeless, like anyone,
you feel nervous, You're not sure what to say. Are
you going to offend? Are you thinking that they're going
to judge you? Why are you here with me? Used
ticking a box make yourself feel better? But the more
I got to know people, particularly those who were doing
it tough. And later on, when I started working in
(07:07):
Africa and the slums over there, I also realized that
these guys, and this sounds like a religious thing, but
it's not. Mother Teresa used to say that the worst
form of poverty was loneliness. And when I started talking
to these people, first of all, i'd look at you
a little bit intrigued that you were talking to them
rather than serving them a soup or serving them coffee.
What we wanted to do was break that stereotype as
(07:28):
well of service and say, no one's really serving here.
We sit down and we chat, and this is going
to be a place of being present to each other
own conversation. And you would see that they would relax,
their shoulders would relax, that'd feel more comfortable. They'd give
you eye contact. Normally they wouldn't be able to if
they felt it was the dynamic, The paradigm had shifted.
When they felt that, you started getting incredible stories. I
(07:50):
used to get really angry because I knew I had
that experience, and I thought, you've got to understand people's context.
But I started noticing more and more when i'd sit
down with people on the streets and talk to them.
How people would rush past them as quickly as they could.
You'd have people walking on the other side of the
street to avoid them. Now, I'm not saying every homeless
person or a street person is a saint. They certainly not.
(08:11):
But they've all got varying reasons why they're there, and
the majority of them have just fallen on tough times.
And it's really going to be presents and love that
will be able to interrupt what they are currently going
through to move them onto something else.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I remember you telling the story about Terry. I remember
that you said that you know he was quite defensive.
How do you work around that to see the person
inside when you get that wall up from people persistence?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Gay? Terry when I first met him, had a really
bad starter. He was aggressive towards everybody. He didn't want
anyone to be around him. And the day that I
first met him, he hadn't had a shower, reportedly for years,
even had a safety pin to hold the backside of
his pants. He never took his pants off, didn't take
his clothes off for the years, and he used to
(08:56):
go to the tour through the same take the safety
pin off and so that added to his aroma. And
it wasn't until I got to meet Terry and persistently
talked to him about just life, and he would always
tell me the f off, And over a couple of weeks,
I just decided to sit down and talk to him.
When I started talking to Terry, this was a broken,
broken human being. You could just tell even when you
(09:19):
were talking to him. His body language was defeated and
he was, you know, his smell was really overpowering. But
I thought that what a phony I was. That I
was present to everybody else, but the most difficult person
that I'd met on the streets, I wanted to push
off to the side. So that was sort of a
little challenge to myself. And then that first night that
(09:41):
I met him, I'll never forget this night. I really
sat down and said, how are you going to Terry? Time?
And f off again? And I got myself a coffee
and said, I'm just sitting here. And for about the
first fifteen minutes, he just sat in silence with me,
and I was uncomfortable. I think he probably wasn't uncomfortable,
he was probably angry that I was there. And then
he just started talking and for the next hour and
a half. I think I got in less than twenty words,
(10:03):
and he just talked, talked and talked, and I realized
he was incredibly intelligent. He was manic in the way
he was talking. He had this incredible memory for cars
and car registrations, et cetera. The car went past and
he said, he used to talk whether that car that
XGA two five seven it went past here three nights ago. Wow,
(10:23):
this guy's got a photographic memory. Hey, I cut along
story short. What I want your listeners to understand is
as we built that relationship up, he finally trusted me
to tell his story. And his image of his clothes
it hadn't been washed. His smell was a defense mechanism.
He was punishing himself for life. And he told me
(10:44):
the story that in Melbourne he was driving a car.
And I've told this many times before. I was shocked
when he said he had a car, because I had
always seen him as Terry the bum Terry, the homeless
guy that was telling everyone to get lost. He had
a car. And then he started talking about that he
was driving on an off ramp in Melbourne and realized
(11:05):
the last minute that he was in the wrong lane
and a car came into him at full force, steering
whell jack knives into his body. And as he just
started describing it, Terry was back in that moment. He
was no longer talking to me as someone that was
with him on the streets. He was back in that
car and he was having a psychotic episode, and I
was just a bystander in his memory. And he started
(11:27):
screaming in pain. We were in kid George Square once again.
People walking past us seeing this must have been a
bizarre scene. And he started talking about how his both
arms were completely broken, and he was staring at his
hands that was sticking down and his bones were sticking
out in front of it at right angles, and he
was going to pain, and he was explaining the pain
(11:47):
in his own way. And then what he did for
me next, and he goes my son, my son, And
I said what he mean, Terry. He said that he
had his daughter in the car, and he realized the
daughter was already passed away, and so he could see
her as he looked off to the side, and then
(12:08):
he realized his son was still alive, and he went
to go reach to his son and realized he was
pinned by the steering wheel. So as he was explaining
in his memory he was trying to rip his arms off,
he was stuck, and he was talking about the pain
that he couldn't face the pain. So then he had
to look back up into the real vision mirror with
the realization that his son was bleeding out. He had
(12:30):
to talk to his son before his son passed away.
For me, that explained his pain, and as we got
to know him a little bit more, he just turned
to me at that stage, got out of his memory
and basically said, I couldn't handle the pain I founded
my son, and so Terry was going to be after
the funeral, he was going to take his life. And
(12:50):
then he realized, you miserable failure of life. That's too easy.
You're going to do whatever you can to be hated.
And that made so he used to wear plastic bags
all up and down his arm that was filled with rubbish.
Stage it just made sense. I realized that the plastic
bags were there to hide his scars, and like his
physical scars, and that he just didn't want to look
(13:13):
down every morning as he woke up and said, you
know that's right, I killed my kids accidentally, So that
blew me away, right, that just blew me away, And
I thought, how many of those people, not just homeless,
any take your blinkers off? In life, you never really
understand what journey anyone's been through, and so I always
think about that in any engagement that I do.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I mean, that's the second time I heard that story,
and it's I can imagine how life changing that was
for you. You could never look at things the same way.
I remember feeling like a bit of shame when you
were telling that story. That absolutely I probably walked past
someone like Terry before and never considered and why do
we do that like we are? I think for a
lot of people, we're actually just avoiding the uncomfortableness for ourselves.
(13:56):
So I think this is obviously a very extreme story
versus I guess some people's day to day issues. But
I think what I'm hearing from you is having that
cure curiosity. That's a big part of it, right.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I think one of the things that if I would
ever be giving anyone a lesson in life or trying
to impart some sort of advice, is that the greatest
moments of my life have always taken place when I've
been present to somebody else where you actually genuinely listen
and take the time. There the moments of education, there
(14:27):
are moments of wisdom, light bulb moments, moments of fun,
went out on the drink. But you present to people
and it's the same with the ones that you think
potentially dangerous or potentially different to us. And that's happened
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
For me, amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
How has that part of your life is connection to
people at homeless people. How's it shaped the way you
do business? Because now you're in business, right, so it's
quite different from being in school, and we'll go back
to that, But how has that shaped things for you?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Well? I think the days of transactional sort of leadership
is over. I did a leadership course a while back
at Oxford. Was it online? Was I at the university physically,
but it was a great course. Did it over a
long period of time, and I really started getting interested
in organic leadership and the type of leader that I
(15:15):
always wanted to be with, someone that reversed the pyramid,
that traditional leadership model of the triangle and reversing that
triangle and saying, if you're a good leader, really you
should be looking up rather than looking down and understanding
the best way of leadership is actually through relationships and presence,
surrounding yourselves by people that are better than you, smarter
(15:36):
than you. That whole humility is important, that sense of
authentic leadership. So those moments were Terry and others, or
being with young mums living in horrendous property in the
slums of Africa and knowing that when you're with those people,
you feel that they are better people than you. That
(15:58):
a title is nothing really. As the CEO of any
organization that I've been in, I've always knew that the
moments of God and my business were always going to
be when I was down at the baseline, sharing information
and being with the stuff. And it makes it so
much more enjoyable to work that way.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, see, to me, to do that takes a huge
amount of self belief and self worth. Right, You're not
trying to prove anything to anybody that I'm this big
guy and I'm in charge.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Where did that start from? You born like that? Someone
teach you that my.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Mom and dad were pretty amazing. My mom I was
an asthmatic, really bad asthmatic, often in hospitals when I
was younger, right, and my mom started up this thing
called the Samaritan Committee. And I haven't talked about this ever,
I don't think when I look back, it was quite extraordinary.
It was something that she just did around kidren asp
Lee Wave all those areas, and it was a Tuesday
(16:48):
on a Thursday afternoon where all of the people in
those subjays were lonely would come into this one space
and they'd be taught my crime, or they play bingo,
or they do art, et cetera. And I used to
be as an asthmatic. She'd have to take me there
and there was a little trundle bit that she put
me in. I can always remember looking out to seem
surrounded by these people and I'm thinking, what's she doing?
(17:09):
But that role modeling, I think, for me, really taught
me the importance of giving back and community and sharing
experiences together.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I loved it, no doubt, that's.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right, without a doubt that it came from my mum
and dad.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Is it particular things that you do, Like if we
talked about what your leadership style is like, is there
things that you actively do to create the kind of
culture that you're after.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
We're doing it right now. So I'm going back into
my third year, my next three year strategic plan and
strategy and a page we call it. So all through it,
through that, who am I to know? Really? The business
on my figurehead up the top, you know, sort of
sprouting out the hard work that my team is doing.
So we're reversing it once again, and I'm saying to them, okay,
(17:58):
it's the old teacher me. I want you to tell
me what we should be and I'll synthesize it and
with my leadership team, so it'll be what are the
five characteristics that we want to be known as a business.
You go out and tell us, let's look at our
elevator pitch. You tell us what our elevator pitch is,
and then every department will then come in and will
synthesize all that. Because no matter what happens in leadership,
(18:20):
if it's coming from you, they won't own it, or
would they own it. But if it's coming from them
from the belly, and they can see their words, their thoughts,
their wisdom that's been placed into an overarching definition of
what our business should be, they feel so much more proud.
They feel that is a true representation of the work
(18:42):
that they're doing, and that they feel strongly aligned to
the vision, the purpose and that elevator pitch and our
focus areas. Everything I do is always around that process. Now,
some people say that's weak leadership. Now, I'm not saying
there's no time when that bureaucratic or that triangle leadership
isn't required. If there's a fire in our building, I'm
(19:05):
going to say them, yes, I'm not going to sit
back and how do we all hopefully not smoketely that
type of leadership. But the majority of the times that
I speak or act within my business will be from
a position of cohesion and collaboration. And I've led that
across the city right now, and I'm doing that with
(19:27):
the highest ends of business with the better bastane alliance,
which I can talk about later.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Thinking about I guess being a CEO and non for
profit organizations, I think it's interesting, right because obviously your
number one goal is not to make a lot of money,
right And yet and a lot of CEOs that I
work with or meet, they've put a very different in
goal and it can sometimes overtake all the other goals.
Do you think that's a big part of why you
lead the way you do them, and you've got your teacher.
For starters, it's been about the students. And then you've
been CEOs of non for profits. How does that help
(19:53):
you in the business world.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
When I started at BEATA, I realized that there wasn't
too much difference from leading an economic development agency for
basically the city and having says to all those major
events and business events that we do, all the investment
we do as a city to what we're doing is
are not for profit. The endgame was to grow the pie.
And the way I used to grow the pie at
(20:16):
places like Young Care or Emmon Rice, it was all
about building relationships and collaborating and I truly believe in
collaboration and the power story. I call it the theology
of presence. And the theology of presence is when I'm
sitting down with business leaders, large fortune, five hundred individuals
and talking with them. They love that one on one
(20:38):
engagement in their coffees, in their coffee and I've always thought,
you never go into those things transactionally. You always go
into it. What is it that we can learn from
each other that has changed the success for me? In
what I've been able to do the Better Brisbane Alliance.
I've talked about that before. When I got into that role,
I can remember the second day going, you Phony, what
the hell are you doing here? I met with one guy.
(20:59):
It's become a bit of a role model for me,
a gy called Harvey Listen. He had a coffee with
me on my second day and it was from there
I realized if I was going to be successful in
anything in this new role, I had to surround myself
that were decision makers that were better than me, smarter
than me. And eventually we got about twenty two of
us altogether called the Better Brisbane Alliance, and that is
(21:19):
absolutely catapult of the city. Reason behind that if you
start looking at Sydney and Melbourne and Brisbane. Each capital
city's got different personalities and Melbourne at the moment somewhat defeated.
Melbourne is they're not flourished out of favor. Sydney is carnivorous,
they don't trust each other, They're all clamoring over each other,
whereas the superpower for our city has to be collaboration.
(21:39):
And over the next ten years, you know, we've got
the Olympics, but we've got this extraordinary runway of their
brand is changing. You know, We've got Queen's Wolf opening
up in August twenty ninth. We've got these wonderful precincts
like Howard Smith, Wolf's James Street districts, all of those,
and the way that Brisbane has been viewed that can
only happen when we collaborate. I say publicly now, death
(22:01):
of Eager and Big on purpose, and it's worked, and
we're doing things that we've never seen. For the last
twelve months, Brisbane has been named in the top fifty
places in the world by New York Times Times magazine
from US, which is an internationally renowned analyzer of cities,
and the Sydneys and Malbands aren't even getting named in
(22:22):
that top fifty. And I think it's down to collaboration.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And so you mentioned that they're about feeling like a
phony at some point, right, So I don't know whether
that's like which I find fast. I mean, I love
your honesty with that, right, So is collaboration an antidote
to feeling like a phony?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
No, collaboration is a deep understanding that there are so
many more people better than what I am. I'm really
inquisitive and I love learning, and I love being surrounded
by people that I think will lift me up.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Why did you say you always feel like a phony?
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I'm not sure where that comes from. It's just when
you get thrown into leadership. I can remember at young Care,
and young Care was had that potential to change the
way the disability set would be seen. Is remember when
we were growing up, and you were a lot younger
than me, But when we were growing up, we were
told the stories that we had about the disability community
(23:14):
were always pulling on heartstrings. Let's feel sorry for them,
Let's look at these terrible images that are disempowering. And
then we said, let's talk about the wonderful power that
they have, the independence, the choice of the dignity that
they deserve. And so young Care is about getting them
out of age care and nursing homes, horrendous environments where
the majority of them are looking into suicide as quickly
(23:36):
as they possibly could, because at eighteen years of age,
they lost all their funding as young people, and they
went in as adults and there was nowhere else to
put them but into age care and nursing homes. We
flipped it and said, no, this is about independence. They
deserve choice, they deserved dignity, and those things were such
a profound learning for me at that time. And hearing
(23:56):
their stories once again, these incredible stories of victory that
individuals and the hardships that the families were doing just
once again changed the way I always went. But going
back to the phony thing, Yeah, here I am part
of something that I knew had this incredible ability to
change the way the disability sector was viewed in Australia.
(24:20):
I was blown away and scared by the responsibility of
I said, there's so many better people than me that
can do this, and there would have been, and of
course there were. But once you get in a position,
you step up to the plane and you do the
best you can.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I was going to say, because I mean you say that,
I could argue you and go now, I think you're
probably the perfect man for the job.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
But how do you get over that and keep going?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Like?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
What do you tell yourself?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Once again, I have to get energy from the work
that I do, so I would do on purpose, go
and meet the people that I was doing a relationship
or supporting, hearing their stories, talking to the mums, talking
to the dads, talking to those individuals themselves that just
wanted to be have a normal life. And so there's
a young man when he first came into a young
(25:03):
care home, didn't think that we could look after him.
That they thought institutionalized care was the only thing is.
That's all they know was there for their son. And
we taught them into giving us a trial. They came
into the house the first time to look where he
was going to. It's this beautiful house on Wednesday and
will win one of the best houses in the street.
And they didn't believe that that was going to be
(25:24):
where their son was living. The care is and that
support workers are really important at that moment and saying, Okay,
we're going to take me to his room now, but
you stay out here. He's ours now, we'll look after
him and we'll come out and have a cup of tea.
And they say, about fifteen minutes into him being associchallengers
and they heard him screaming and they raced him. We
told you couldn't look after looking after he was in
(25:46):
the shower and they had never heard him laugh.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
And he was in the shower because where he had been.
He'd been just sponged down on a trestle and that
was his first shower since his a quiet brain injury.
I'll get emotional again. He was crying and laughing because
that simple act for shower, which we take for granted
every day, meant so much to him, and I thought, Wow,
(26:14):
why do we always take those things for granted? Brother?
Looking for those beautiful moments in life that you know
that happened when I was in Africa and just seeing
the real struggles of the world's most poor. He sit
back and go, you wonker, You're entitled when you complain
about something in a restauructure or whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
You know I asked this question a lot to people,
but I'm kind of hesitating with you because I don't
think it's remotely true. You know, we talked about ego,
being like, you've got to have some ego right to
get you places, but you don't seem to have a
huge ego in that way. And I'm feeling like it's
because of these experiences that you've had, right to my.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Son, that's I've got a huge ego.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But yeah, but you know what I mean, there's that
difference between good ego, and then there's somewhere in all
finness and the role that you play now particularly, I'm
sure there are many peop knocking on your door, wanting
to take you out for lunch, schmoozing you. It could
all go to your head. How do you keep yourself grounded?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Okay, I'll share with you, and I haven't shared this
for a while. The one moment that that has ground me,
and it's not the terries. That was a profound one
of the biggest learning in my life. But when I
was working in the Kabira slum. The Kabira slum's the
world's largest slum. It's just outside in Arabi, and we
set up a school there, a disability school, and it
(27:30):
was supporting it called Mary Rice. It was amazing. And
if you are poor, you're in Cabira, you're the poorest
in the world. And if you've got a disability, you're
the poorest of the poor. Anyway, one morning we got
a phone call that one of the fathers had thrown
one of the kids at our school in front of
a train. It was a kid that just had cerebral palsy.
So what I understood that completely, the horror of that moment,
(27:55):
being thrown in front of the train. It ended up
coming down to the mummers of Kabira saving that kid's
life because she was stuck under the train and she
lost three limbs and was bleeding out, and the men
were saying, let the child die, let the child die.
And I wasn't there. I've just been told this story.
And I come in later and the mum has went out,
(28:20):
and they said, no, this child deserves to live. It's
not ours to let her lead out. So they all
pushed against the train and lift a bit was able
to lift the train off to the side so that
they could get access to the girl. And I flew
in about a month later, and we said we're going
to look after her and pay for all her medical expenses. Anyway,
I'm sitting there with the mum, and in these hospitals
(28:40):
it's like being in hell. You got to do your
own washing, you got to bring in your own food.
We're sitting there and the young girl was she was
speaking broken English and she was saying things to us.
It was with the group of us, and she was
saying things, have you seen my leg? If you can
find my leg, just bring it here. That was a
really tough thing for us to hear. Tougher for her,
of course. And years later I left that job. I
(29:01):
got a phone call and we were told that she
had dust the school, and that profound moment of imagine
if they let it bleed out, This kid, you know,
through that extraordinary, horrendous moment of line, has still been
able to bounce back, and through love and community, they'd
been able to go around. And she's she's had this
(29:24):
and I have no idea where she is now. I
just know that I was sitting in my office, I
was actually at Young Care and sitting in office and going, Wow,
that's what it's.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
All about, Brave.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
What I talk about a lot of enjoy the ease
for empathy and something that I don't think many people
understand particularly well sometimes when it comes to I.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Love that name. By the way, thank you, it's really
awesome to me.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
That's all where we want to live and right with
people understand what it means to be bold, resilient, authentic,
vulnerable and empathetic.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's the ultimate leader when I think.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Of it, empathy in the especially in the space that
you plan in sympathy and empathy could probably get mixed
up a bit, like, what's the difference for you with
those two?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I think sympathy is where I don't think that really
gives anything. Sympathy for me is I'm looking at something
and I'm feeling so worry for them. Empathy is sitting
with them, and I think that's the difference. I used
to really get annoyed with people saying I feel so
sorry for them. Say well, that's not going to do
(30:17):
them any good. What can you do? And that's in
anything in life. How do you actually utilize what you've
got to be able to affect change in any way?
And everyone has that ability to effect.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Change, Like I picked this up on you in Futures
I've met you as well. It's the way you speak
to people and the questions you ask them. But your
ability to hold space for people is amazing. I think
if you can hold space and be comfortable with the
fact that it could be an uncomfortable conversation, that's what
we avoid is a human race.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
We don't like being uncomfortable. I just don't like it,
So humans do well.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
My job is that I've got to do whatever I
can to build the brand of Brisbane and to grow
the business opportunities to attract investment, tract aviation, bid for
the city for major events like an RL Magic Round
or the British Irish Lines, and you know, those big
wins are great, absolutely fantastic in the work we're doing.
So if I'm not out there on failing in my job,
(31:07):
if you talk about ego, I don't think this is ego.
But I hate losing. I've never liked losing, and I
lose all the time, but it drives me. I don't
win much, but I know that when I lose, it
makes me more passionate.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
That's why you're an epic fundraiser potentially. Absolutely, Let's talk
about the v then, because if you're not loving always
being on stage or speaking gigs, it's not always we
get your energy from. I mean, obviously you're good at
it and you do it for a good purpose and
a good reason. So I totally get and agree with that.
Was there a moment where you felt really vulnerable, like
really exposed, like you weren't coping.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I feel vulnerable. Now your listeners won't see this, but
I've been crying the whole time. Nice It's I didn't
come here thinking I was going to be crying. I'm
sort of comfortable in being vulnerable in some of the
work that I've done. I know that sounds a bit peculiar,
but when you put yourself out there, it's not just
(32:02):
about you and what you learn in those moments, but
it's also I think you grow during that time. My
father always said, by the time you leave this world,
make sure you've made a difference, and I think in
those vulnerable times that's where you grow.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I could agree more, but I think that that vulnerability
for a lot of people in very senior roles is
a real tough one, right, because there's this constant fear
of being exposed or being judged.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Why do you not have that? Yeah, why what's the difference?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I'm not scared of being wrong or scared of sounding stupid,
because I get annoyed with people when they try and
pretend there's something that they're not and I feel like
just saying if you don't know, I don't know what's
wrong with that? What's wrong with saying that you don't
know something? But what I want to do is I
learn and I'll come back and I will give you
the answer. That's a better answer than trying to make
up something. Being vulnerable is saying I don't have to
(32:54):
be perfect, and I'm not perfect just because I've got
a CEO behind my title. In fact, that means nothing
unless I can do my job well. And one of
the most important parts of the job is acknowledging the
fact that you're never going to be right all the time.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I describe vulnerability as speaking from the messy middle, right,
because the messy middle is you don't know, you know,
you don't know something you haven't sold. You're speaking from
a space where you haven't figured it all out.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
This is why I do this podcast, though, right because.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I need people like you on here saying this because
there are too many people in quite powerful positions and
affecting the lives and happiness of other people who walk
around Unfortunately. You say, I don't know why they do it,
because that's the world that we live, and it creates
a space that the smartest and you have all the answers,
and you're the most beautiful, and all these things stops
us from speaking from the messy middle.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Absolutely, And so to hear.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
That other successful people who are doing good in the
world are okay with that gives people permission, but not
enough people have given permission to be vulnerable at the top.
I agree, what's something you're aware of about yourself now
that you just weren't at the beginning of your career? Like,
what do you know now that you're like damn? Like,
if I could go back and tell young Anthony, hey,
I feel.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
As if I am a very good storyteller. You are,
And I think the power of story is not talked
about enough. I challenge you every time you've gone to
a lunch where they're talking, when anyone goes from talking
about something quantitatively or just about a subject and then
(34:18):
they bring a story into it. Hollywood calls it the
lean forward moment. I've got a great mane of mine
who just lives around the corner from or works around
the corner from here, Aaron Michael. He's actually Margot Robbie's
manager and another story, Margo was our ambassador.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
At young here and oh wow.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Anyway, so Aaron talks that those people that are amazing
in the world globally are those that they create those
lean forward moments, and you watch it. Next time you'll
see people at a lunch a good storyteller. They lean
Ford it's a physical responsible you want to dive into it,
(34:56):
and I think I'm pretty good at that. I'm bad
at a lot of things, but I think once you
tell story and then bring it back to the yes,
people will then.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Listen exactly right, because it's the real life experience. Then
you attach the thing you try and teach people to,
which is pretty much what I love. If I was
doing what I love to do, we'd be talking for
three and a half hours because I'll be telling you stories,
You're telling me stories. We're going round be amazing wine.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Oh one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I honestly could talk to you for a really long time.
I want to bottle what you are in lots of
ways and give it out to some of these leaders
that I meet. So I've got to wrap it up, though,
So I'll finish on one question. What's an opportunity you
said no two in the past that you say yes
to today.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I haven't said no to too many things. In fact, i'd
find it hard if I look at from a sort
of surface level. I was offered a scholarship to the
American Universities after the world jenis getting that silver metal
you get back from those and all the talent scouts
are there, and I had an offer to go to Harvard,
Ohio State, Kentucky and Notre Dame, and I probably should
(35:59):
have taken up one of those because I think it
would have opened up a different world from me. But
I don't regret it because then it opened up another
different world. What I regret is spending more time with
my mom and dad towards the end parts of their life.
Like I did as much as I possibly could, But
when you start seeing them fail and you know that
they're in their last couple of days, you're always full
(36:21):
of regrets. Then why don't I walk on the beach
with them one more time? Or why don't know if
they're fishing a dad? Or why do I sit down
with mum and hold a hand and one more time?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
They're the things that truly a thank Charnithan. This has
been beautiful. Thanks for coming on
Apoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO Series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
True emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on
our about our fourth flight, and everybody thought, well, if
it's good enough for him, I can do it.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us
the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today, I'm thrilled
to be joined in the studio by the very charismatic
Anthony Ryan. Anthony is currently the CEO of the Brisbane
Economic Development Agency, responsible for driving the economic growth of
Brisbane City. Prior to this, Anthony was the CEO of
(00:50):
Young Care for five years, a national not for profit
organization revolutionizing the way young people with high kid disabilities live.
In fact, you will find much of Anthony's resume in
the space of the nonprofit sector and charities including the
MEMIKI and Edmund Rice FANDAI.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I was fortunate to meet you at two charity events
I'm for the Broncos and recently at the CEO sleep
at for Vinnie h. I got to witness firsthand your
mastery at getting people to fundraise. Anthony impressively raised over
twenty thousand by yourself for the event. But Anthony, I
thoroughly enjoyed doing a little bit of research on you.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I really did.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I was like, oh, oh every five seconds, starting with
the fact that you actually represented Australia at the World
Junior Athletics Championships and nineteen eighty eight in Canada.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, we so obviously you have a passion for sport.
Can you tell me a bit about your junior as
an athlete.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I was playing rugby at school and the school just
up the road here at school called Terrace, and I
wasn't a great rugby player, but I got quite a
bad injury, and so instead of playing rugby, i'd really
focus on track and field. I was just going to
be a hobby. And then I realized I was better
at it than I thought I would be, and sort
of quickly started improving. And then came to GPS, and
(02:03):
I think I surprised myself and won jeeps and then
went on one States and then went into the Australian
Australian Championships and then got selected in the Australian junior
team and sort of out of the blur. Really, my
coach was always there for rugby, called John Lucas's bloody legend.
But we surprised ourselves or who went there, and we
got a silver medal at the World Jeniors. We either
broke the world junior record in the semis. We had
(02:25):
an amazing team that all went onto fantastic things except
for myself in sport. And then in the final we
ended up getting second to the United States and they
broke the world junior record and the guy that was
the runner there in that who ran against me ended
up going on later on a couple of months later
to win the Olympics a year old wow forty three eight.
(02:46):
So I knew I was never going to be that good.
So I pretty much sort of was always a relay
runner in some ways, I planted the seeds in what
I did later on in life.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I was going to say so, also, I'm a beautiful
fit now that you're working with Beta and obviously going
to be part of the Olympics coming to Brisbane. That's
obviously it feels probably very close and special for you.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Absolutely well, Bristbane Economic Development Agency where there is a
support mechanism. Our work isn't really to do with the
Olympics per se, but we will be supporting Okog and
anyone that we can, particularly with utilizing Olympics as that
hook to drive the brand of our city investment and
to assist with getting those stadiums and things like that
(03:25):
up and running when someone makes the choice and the
decision to do something.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, right, exciting stuff. Now.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
At the CEO sleepout that we went to a month
or so ago, I was really moved by a story
that you shared on stage about your relationship with a
homeless man in Brisbane. You know, without having done any
research on you, I just automatically since there's deep passion
in you around homelessness. And then I read that there's
a bit of a backstory here. So how did that
all begin for you?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I was a teacher many years ago as I was
teaching economics. It was an inner city school and I
was totally buying away as we would come to school
as a wealthy It was terrorist. I went back to
teacher Terras and I said to the economics class, you
walk past homelessness every day. Why do you think the
street people are here? You know, some were sleeping in
the same street as Terrace and in the parks and
(04:11):
Victoria Park, et cetera. And there was a young fella
in grade elevenies and now I've become one of my mates,
actually because I was a young teacher. And he said,
because they're lazy, and if they got up off their ass,
they could get a job, sir. And I was a
standard by his answer, and so I said, who else,
who else feels the same way? And every person in
(04:31):
the class put the hand up and said, you know,
they're lazy. And so instead of getting angry and or
saying that they were wrong, I wanted to challenge that
because that's what teaching is. Teaching isn't about. It's allowing
people to arrive at an answer themselves, particularly in those
sort of profound moments of light bulb moments in life.
And so from that that became a trigger for me,
and I thought, Okay, well, how do I get these
kids to actually challenge their stereotypes? And so I started
(04:56):
this program about two months later called the Street Retreat Program,
where we would have an overnight experience living on the
streets of South Pars overnight and instead of of serving
the homeless, you're actually going to journey for twenty four
hours with them, and that would challengeh stereotypes. And we
started this van. On one of the first nights, I
brought that student out. His name was Gandhi, and we
(05:19):
took Gandhi out and five of his mates, and Gandhi
was sitting in the garter talking to this guy and
it was the first time these terrorist guys had already
ever seen anyone a homeless or not seen them, but
confronted them and was conversive with them. And the guy
shared with him that he used to go to a
school up the road, and Gandy was going, Oh, what
do you mean what we're talking about? He goes, oh,
(05:41):
you might not know it. It's a school called Terrace.
And Gandhi at that stage when wow, are you serious?
And what had happened for a series of things that
had happened in this guy's life, addiction took over ended
up being a semi permanent resident down in potanical gardens.
And that was the moment where I started realizing the
(06:01):
power of education. So Gandhi went from that night and
we'd always finish at the end and night just sitting
around and just chatting. What do you learn, what you see,
what made you feel uncomfortable, et cetera. And he shared
his story and the next day at that school, we
had a lineup of around about no exact eruation, about
one hundred kids outside my door asking whether they could
(06:21):
be involved in the program. And that started. It changed
the culture of a school. And then and it was
during that time I met a guy called Terry.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Met Terry, Yeah, wow, I love that.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I mean, you don't seem to have any of the
judgment or avoidance that people usually have when it comes
to homelessness. I mean, I think at the core of it,
there's something about homelessess that makes people feel afraid.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Or not want to think about it. Why is it
different for you?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I mean you've said that education is a part of it,
but is this anthing more?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah? For sure. When I started working the homeless, like anyone,
you feel nervous, You're not sure what to say. Are
you going to offend? Are you thinking that they're going
to judge you? Why are you here with me? Used
ticking a box make yourself feel better? But the more
I got to know people, particularly those who were doing
it tough. And later on, when I started working in
(07:07):
Africa and the slums over there, I also realized that
these guys, and this sounds like a religious thing, but
it's not. Mother Teresa used to say that the worst
form of poverty was loneliness. And when I started talking
to these people, first of all, i'd look at you
a little bit intrigued that you were talking to them
rather than serving them a soup or serving them coffee.
What we wanted to do was break that stereotype as
(07:28):
well of service and say, no one's really serving here.
We sit down and we chat, and this is going
to be a place of being present to each other
own conversation. And you would see that they would relax,
their shoulders would relax, that'd feel more comfortable. They'd give
you eye contact. Normally they wouldn't be able to if
they felt it was the dynamic, The paradigm had shifted.
When they felt that, you started getting incredible stories. I
(07:50):
used to get really angry because I knew I had
that experience, and I thought, you've got to understand people's context.
But I started noticing more and more when i'd sit
down with people on the streets and talk to them.
How people would rush past them as quickly as they could.
You'd have people walking on the other side of the
street to avoid them. Now, I'm not saying every homeless
person or a street person is a saint. They certainly not.
(08:11):
But they've all got varying reasons why they're there, and
the majority of them have just fallen on tough times.
And it's really going to be presents and love that
will be able to interrupt what they are currently going
through to move them onto something else.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I remember you telling the story about Terry. I remember
that you said that you know he was quite defensive.
How do you work around that to see the person
inside when you get that wall up from people persistence?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Gay? Terry when I first met him, had a really
bad starter. He was aggressive towards everybody. He didn't want
anyone to be around him. And the day that I
first met him, he hadn't had a shower, reportedly for years,
even had a safety pin to hold the backside of
his pants. He never took his pants off, didn't take
his clothes off for the years, and he used to
(08:56):
go to the tour through the same take the safety
pin off and so that added to his aroma. And
it wasn't until I got to meet Terry and persistently
talked to him about just life, and he would always
tell me the f off, And over a couple of weeks,
I just decided to sit down and talk to him.
When I started talking to Terry, this was a broken,
broken human being. You could just tell even when you
(09:19):
were talking to him. His body language was defeated and
he was, you know, his smell was really overpowering. But
I thought that what a phony I was. That I
was present to everybody else, but the most difficult person
that I'd met on the streets, I wanted to push
off to the side. So that was sort of a
little challenge to myself. And then that first night that
(09:41):
I met him, I'll never forget this night. I really
sat down and said, how are you going to Terry? Time?
And f off again? And I got myself a coffee
and said, I'm just sitting here. And for about the
first fifteen minutes, he just sat in silence with me,
and I was uncomfortable. I think he probably wasn't uncomfortable,
he was probably angry that I was there. And then
he just started talking and for the next hour and
a half. I think I got in less than twenty words,
(10:03):
and he just talked, talked and talked, and I realized
he was incredibly intelligent. He was manic in the way
he was talking. He had this incredible memory for cars
and car registrations, et cetera. The car went past and
he said, he used to talk whether that car that
XGA two five seven it went past here three nights ago. Wow,
(10:23):
this guy's got a photographic memory. Hey, I cut along
story short. What I want your listeners to understand is
as we built that relationship up, he finally trusted me
to tell his story. And his image of his clothes
it hadn't been washed. His smell was a defense mechanism.
He was punishing himself for life. And he told me
(10:44):
the story that in Melbourne he was driving a car.
And I've told this many times before. I was shocked
when he said he had a car, because I had
always seen him as Terry the bum Terry, the homeless
guy that was telling everyone to get lost. He had
a car. And then he started talking about that he
was driving on an off ramp in Melbourne and realized
(11:05):
the last minute that he was in the wrong lane
and a car came into him at full force, steering
whell jack knives into his body. And as he just
started describing it, Terry was back in that moment. He
was no longer talking to me as someone that was
with him on the streets. He was back in that
car and he was having a psychotic episode, and I
was just a bystander in his memory. And he started
(11:27):
screaming in pain. We were in kid George Square once again.
People walking past us seeing this must have been a
bizarre scene. And he started talking about how his both
arms were completely broken, and he was staring at his
hands that was sticking down and his bones were sticking
out in front of it at right angles, and he
was going to pain, and he was explaining the pain
(11:47):
in his own way. And then what he did for
me next, and he goes my son, my son, And
I said what he mean, Terry. He said that he
had his daughter in the car, and he realized the
daughter was already passed away, and so he could see
her as he looked off to the side, and then
(12:08):
he realized his son was still alive, and he went
to go reach to his son and realized he was
pinned by the steering wheel. So as he was explaining
in his memory he was trying to rip his arms off,
he was stuck, and he was talking about the pain
that he couldn't face the pain. So then he had
to look back up into the real vision mirror with
the realization that his son was bleeding out. He had
(12:30):
to talk to his son before his son passed away.
For me, that explained his pain, and as we got
to know him a little bit more, he just turned
to me at that stage, got out of his memory
and basically said, I couldn't handle the pain I founded
my son, and so Terry was going to be after
the funeral, he was going to take his life. And
(12:50):
then he realized, you miserable failure of life. That's too easy.
You're going to do whatever you can to be hated.
And that made so he used to wear plastic bags
all up and down his arm that was filled with rubbish.
Stage it just made sense. I realized that the plastic
bags were there to hide his scars, and like his
physical scars, and that he just didn't want to look
(13:13):
down every morning as he woke up and said, you
know that's right, I killed my kids accidentally, So that
blew me away, right, that just blew me away, And
I thought, how many of those people, not just homeless,
any take your blinkers off? In life, you never really
understand what journey anyone's been through, and so I always
think about that in any engagement that I do.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I mean, that's the second time I heard that story,
and it's I can imagine how life changing that was
for you. You could never look at things the same way.
I remember feeling like a bit of shame when you
were telling that story. That absolutely I probably walked past
someone like Terry before and never considered and why do
we do that like we are? I think for a
lot of people, we're actually just avoiding the uncomfortableness for ourselves.
(13:56):
So I think this is obviously a very extreme story
versus I guess some people's day to day issues. But
I think what I'm hearing from you is having that
cure curiosity. That's a big part of it, right.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
I think one of the things that if I would
ever be giving anyone a lesson in life or trying
to impart some sort of advice, is that the greatest
moments of my life have always taken place when I've
been present to somebody else where you actually genuinely listen
and take the time. There the moments of education, there
(14:27):
are moments of wisdom, light bulb moments, moments of fun,
went out on the drink. But you present to people
and it's the same with the ones that you think
potentially dangerous or potentially different to us. And that's happened
all over the world.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
For me, amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
How has that part of your life is connection to
people at homeless people. How's it shaped the way you
do business? Because now you're in business, right, so it's
quite different from being in school, and we'll go back
to that, But how has that shaped things for you?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Well? I think the days of transactional sort of leadership
is over. I did a leadership course a while back
at Oxford. Was it online? Was I at the university physically,
but it was a great course. Did it over a
long period of time, and I really started getting interested
in organic leadership and the type of leader that I
(15:15):
always wanted to be with, someone that reversed the pyramid,
that traditional leadership model of the triangle and reversing that
triangle and saying, if you're a good leader, really you
should be looking up rather than looking down and understanding
the best way of leadership is actually through relationships and presence,
surrounding yourselves by people that are better than you, smarter
(15:36):
than you. That whole humility is important, that sense of
authentic leadership. So those moments were Terry and others, or
being with young mums living in horrendous property in the
slums of Africa and knowing that when you're with those people,
you feel that they are better people than you. That
(15:58):
a title is nothing really. As the CEO of any
organization that I've been in, I've always knew that the
moments of God and my business were always going to
be when I was down at the baseline, sharing information
and being with the stuff. And it makes it so
much more enjoyable to work that way.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, see, to me, to do that takes a huge
amount of self belief and self worth. Right, You're not
trying to prove anything to anybody that I'm this big
guy and I'm in charge.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Where did that start from? You born like that? Someone
teach you that my.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Mom and dad were pretty amazing. My mom I was
an asthmatic, really bad asthmatic, often in hospitals when I
was younger, right, and my mom started up this thing
called the Samaritan Committee. And I haven't talked about this ever,
I don't think when I look back, it was quite extraordinary.
It was something that she just did around kidren asp
Lee Wave all those areas, and it was a Tuesday
(16:48):
on a Thursday afternoon where all of the people in
those subjays were lonely would come into this one space
and they'd be taught my crime, or they play bingo,
or they do art, et cetera. And I used to
be as an asthmatic. She'd have to take me there
and there was a little trundle bit that she put
me in. I can always remember looking out to seem
surrounded by these people and I'm thinking, what's she doing?
(17:09):
But that role modeling, I think, for me, really taught
me the importance of giving back and community and sharing
experiences together.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
I loved it, no doubt, that's.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right, without a doubt that it came from my mum
and dad.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Is it particular things that you do, Like if we
talked about what your leadership style is like, is there
things that you actively do to create the kind of
culture that you're after.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
We're doing it right now. So I'm going back into
my third year, my next three year strategic plan and
strategy and a page we call it. So all through it,
through that, who am I to know? Really? The business
on my figurehead up the top, you know, sort of
sprouting out the hard work that my team is doing.
So we're reversing it once again, and I'm saying to them, okay,
(17:58):
it's the old teacher me. I want you to tell
me what we should be and I'll synthesize it and
with my leadership team, so it'll be what are the
five characteristics that we want to be known as a business.
You go out and tell us, let's look at our
elevator pitch. You tell us what our elevator pitch is,
and then every department will then come in and will
synthesize all that. Because no matter what happens in leadership,
(18:20):
if it's coming from you, they won't own it, or
would they own it. But if it's coming from them
from the belly, and they can see their words, their thoughts,
their wisdom that's been placed into an overarching definition of
what our business should be, they feel so much more proud.
They feel that is a true representation of the work
(18:42):
that they're doing, and that they feel strongly aligned to
the vision, the purpose and that elevator pitch and our
focus areas. Everything I do is always around that process. Now,
some people say that's weak leadership. Now, I'm not saying
there's no time when that bureaucratic or that triangle leadership
isn't required. If there's a fire in our building, I'm
(19:05):
going to say them, yes, I'm not going to sit
back and how do we all hopefully not smoketely that
type of leadership. But the majority of the times that
I speak or act within my business will be from
a position of cohesion and collaboration. And I've led that
across the city right now, and I'm doing that with
(19:27):
the highest ends of business with the better bastane alliance,
which I can talk about later.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Thinking about I guess being a CEO and non for
profit organizations, I think it's interesting, right because obviously your
number one goal is not to make a lot of money,
right And yet and a lot of CEOs that I
work with or meet, they've put a very different in
goal and it can sometimes overtake all the other goals.
Do you think that's a big part of why you
lead the way you do them, and you've got your teacher.
For starters, it's been about the students. And then you've
been CEOs of non for profits. How does that help
(19:53):
you in the business world.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
When I started at BEATA, I realized that there wasn't
too much difference from leading an economic development agency for
basically the city and having says to all those major
events and business events that we do, all the investment
we do as a city to what we're doing is
are not for profit. The endgame was to grow the pie.
And the way I used to grow the pie at
(20:16):
places like Young Care or Emmon Rice, it was all
about building relationships and collaborating and I truly believe in
collaboration and the power story. I call it the theology
of presence. And the theology of presence is when I'm
sitting down with business leaders, large fortune, five hundred individuals
and talking with them. They love that one on one
(20:38):
engagement in their coffees, in their coffee and I've always thought,
you never go into those things transactionally. You always go
into it. What is it that we can learn from
each other that has changed the success for me? In
what I've been able to do the Better Brisbane Alliance.
I've talked about that before. When I got into that role,
I can remember the second day going, you Phony, what
the hell are you doing here? I met with one guy.
(20:59):
It's become a bit of a role model for me,
a gy called Harvey Listen. He had a coffee with
me on my second day and it was from there
I realized if I was going to be successful in
anything in this new role, I had to surround myself
that were decision makers that were better than me, smarter
than me. And eventually we got about twenty two of
us altogether called the Better Brisbane Alliance, and that is
(21:19):
absolutely catapult of the city. Reason behind that if you
start looking at Sydney and Melbourne and Brisbane. Each capital
city's got different personalities and Melbourne at the moment somewhat defeated.
Melbourne is they're not flourished out of favor. Sydney is carnivorous,
they don't trust each other, They're all clamoring over each other,
whereas the superpower for our city has to be collaboration.
(21:39):
And over the next ten years, you know, we've got
the Olympics, but we've got this extraordinary runway of their
brand is changing. You know, We've got Queen's Wolf opening
up in August twenty ninth. We've got these wonderful precincts
like Howard Smith, Wolf's James Street districts, all of those,
and the way that Brisbane has been viewed that can
only happen when we collaborate. I say publicly now, death
(22:01):
of Eager and Big on purpose, and it's worked, and
we're doing things that we've never seen. For the last
twelve months, Brisbane has been named in the top fifty
places in the world by New York Times Times magazine
from US, which is an internationally renowned analyzer of cities,
and the Sydneys and Malbands aren't even getting named in
(22:22):
that top fifty. And I think it's down to collaboration.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And so you mentioned that they're about feeling like a
phony at some point, right, So I don't know whether
that's like which I find fast. I mean, I love
your honesty with that, right, So is collaboration an antidote
to feeling like a phony?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
No, collaboration is a deep understanding that there are so
many more people better than what I am. I'm really
inquisitive and I love learning, and I love being surrounded
by people that I think will lift me up.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Why did you say you always feel like a phony?
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I'm not sure where that comes from. It's just when
you get thrown into leadership. I can remember at young Care,
and young Care was had that potential to change the
way the disability set would be seen. Is remember when
we were growing up, and you were a lot younger
than me, But when we were growing up, we were
told the stories that we had about the disability community
(23:14):
were always pulling on heartstrings. Let's feel sorry for them,
Let's look at these terrible images that are disempowering. And
then we said, let's talk about the wonderful power that
they have, the independence, the choice of the dignity that
they deserve. And so young Care is about getting them
out of age care and nursing homes, horrendous environments where
the majority of them are looking into suicide as quickly
(23:36):
as they possibly could, because at eighteen years of age,
they lost all their funding as young people, and they
went in as adults and there was nowhere else to
put them but into age care and nursing homes. We
flipped it and said, no, this is about independence. They
deserve choice, they deserved dignity, and those things were such
a profound learning for me at that time. And hearing
(23:56):
their stories once again, these incredible stories of victory that
individuals and the hardships that the families were doing just
once again changed the way I always went. But going
back to the phony thing, Yeah, here I am part
of something that I knew had this incredible ability to
change the way the disability sector was viewed in Australia.
(24:20):
I was blown away and scared by the responsibility of
I said, there's so many better people than me that
can do this, and there would have been, and of
course there were. But once you get in a position,
you step up to the plane and you do the
best you can.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I was going to say, because I mean you say that,
I could argue you and go now, I think you're
probably the perfect man for the job.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
But how do you get over that and keep going?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Like?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
What do you tell yourself?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Once again, I have to get energy from the work
that I do, so I would do on purpose, go
and meet the people that I was doing a relationship
or supporting, hearing their stories, talking to the mums, talking
to the dads, talking to those individuals themselves that just
wanted to be have a normal life. And so there's
a young man when he first came into a young
(25:03):
care home, didn't think that we could look after him.
That they thought institutionalized care was the only thing is.
That's all they know was there for their son. And
we taught them into giving us a trial. They came
into the house the first time to look where he
was going to. It's this beautiful house on Wednesday and
will win one of the best houses in the street.
And they didn't believe that that was going to be
(25:24):
where their son was living. The care is and that
support workers are really important at that moment and saying, Okay,
we're going to take me to his room now, but
you stay out here. He's ours now, we'll look after
him and we'll come out and have a cup of tea.
And they say, about fifteen minutes into him being associchallengers
and they heard him screaming and they raced him. We
told you couldn't look after looking after he was in
(25:46):
the shower and they had never heard him laugh.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
And he was in the shower because where he had been.
He'd been just sponged down on a trestle and that
was his first shower since his a quiet brain injury.
I'll get emotional again. He was crying and laughing because
that simple act for shower, which we take for granted
every day, meant so much to him, and I thought, Wow,
(26:14):
why do we always take those things for granted? Brother?
Looking for those beautiful moments in life that you know
that happened when I was in Africa and just seeing
the real struggles of the world's most poor. He sit
back and go, you wonker, You're entitled when you complain
about something in a restauructure or whatever.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
You know I asked this question a lot to people,
but I'm kind of hesitating with you because I don't
think it's remotely true. You know, we talked about ego,
being like, you've got to have some ego right to
get you places, but you don't seem to have a
huge ego in that way. And I'm feeling like it's
because of these experiences that you've had, right to my.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Son, that's I've got a huge ego.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But yeah, but you know what I mean, there's that
difference between good ego, and then there's somewhere in all
finness and the role that you play now particularly, I'm
sure there are many peop knocking on your door, wanting
to take you out for lunch, schmoozing you. It could
all go to your head. How do you keep yourself grounded?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Okay, I'll share with you, and I haven't shared this
for a while. The one moment that that has ground me,
and it's not the terries. That was a profound one
of the biggest learning in my life. But when I
was working in the Kabira slum. The Kabira slum's the
world's largest slum. It's just outside in Arabi, and we
set up a school there, a disability school, and it
(27:30):
was supporting it called Mary Rice. It was amazing. And
if you are poor, you're in Cabira, you're the poorest
in the world. And if you've got a disability, you're
the poorest of the poor. Anyway, one morning we got
a phone call that one of the fathers had thrown
one of the kids at our school in front of
a train. It was a kid that just had cerebral palsy.
So what I understood that completely, the horror of that moment,
(27:55):
being thrown in front of the train. It ended up
coming down to the mummers of Kabira saving that kid's
life because she was stuck under the train and she
lost three limbs and was bleeding out, and the men
were saying, let the child die, let the child die.
And I wasn't there. I've just been told this story.
And I come in later and the mum has went out,
(28:20):
and they said, no, this child deserves to live. It's
not ours to let her lead out. So they all
pushed against the train and lift a bit was able
to lift the train off to the side so that
they could get access to the girl. And I flew
in about a month later, and we said we're going
to look after her and pay for all her medical expenses. Anyway,
I'm sitting there with the mum, and in these hospitals
(28:40):
it's like being in hell. You got to do your
own washing, you got to bring in your own food.
We're sitting there and the young girl was she was
speaking broken English and she was saying things to us.
It was with the group of us, and she was
saying things, have you seen my leg? If you can
find my leg, just bring it here. That was a
really tough thing for us to hear. Tougher for her,
of course. And years later I left that job. I
(29:01):
got a phone call and we were told that she
had dust the school, and that profound moment of imagine
if they let it bleed out, This kid, you know,
through that extraordinary, horrendous moment of line, has still been
able to bounce back, and through love and community, they'd
been able to go around. And she's she's had this
(29:24):
and I have no idea where she is now. I
just know that I was sitting in my office, I
was actually at Young Care and sitting in office and going, Wow,
that's what it's.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
All about, Brave.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
What I talk about a lot of enjoy the ease
for empathy and something that I don't think many people
understand particularly well sometimes when it comes to I.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Love that name. By the way, thank you, it's really
awesome to me.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
That's all where we want to live and right with
people understand what it means to be bold, resilient, authentic,
vulnerable and empathetic.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's the ultimate leader when I think.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Of it, empathy in the especially in the space that
you plan in sympathy and empathy could probably get mixed
up a bit, like, what's the difference for you with
those two?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I think sympathy is where I don't think that really
gives anything. Sympathy for me is I'm looking at something
and I'm feeling so worry for them. Empathy is sitting
with them, and I think that's the difference. I used
to really get annoyed with people saying I feel so
sorry for them. Say well, that's not going to do
(30:17):
them any good. What can you do? And that's in
anything in life. How do you actually utilize what you've
got to be able to affect change in any way?
And everyone has that ability to effect.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Change, Like I picked this up on you in Futures
I've met you as well. It's the way you speak
to people and the questions you ask them. But your
ability to hold space for people is amazing. I think
if you can hold space and be comfortable with the
fact that it could be an uncomfortable conversation, that's what
we avoid is a human race.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
We don't like being uncomfortable. I just don't like it,
So humans do well.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
My job is that I've got to do whatever I
can to build the brand of Brisbane and to grow
the business opportunities to attract investment, tract aviation, bid for
the city for major events like an RL Magic Round
or the British Irish Lines, and you know, those big
wins are great, absolutely fantastic in the work we're doing.
So if I'm not out there on failing in my job,
(31:07):
if you talk about ego, I don't think this is ego.
But I hate losing. I've never liked losing, and I
lose all the time, but it drives me. I don't
win much, but I know that when I lose, it
makes me more passionate.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
That's why you're an epic fundraiser potentially. Absolutely, Let's talk
about the v then, because if you're not loving always
being on stage or speaking gigs, it's not always we
get your energy from. I mean, obviously you're good at
it and you do it for a good purpose and
a good reason. So I totally get and agree with that.
Was there a moment where you felt really vulnerable, like
really exposed, like you weren't coping.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
I feel vulnerable. Now your listeners won't see this, but
I've been crying the whole time. Nice It's I didn't
come here thinking I was going to be crying. I'm
sort of comfortable in being vulnerable in some of the
work that I've done. I know that sounds a bit peculiar,
but when you put yourself out there, it's not just
(32:02):
about you and what you learn in those moments, but
it's also I think you grow during that time. My
father always said, by the time you leave this world,
make sure you've made a difference, and I think in
those vulnerable times that's where you grow.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I could agree more, but I think that that vulnerability
for a lot of people in very senior roles is
a real tough one, right, because there's this constant fear
of being exposed or being judged.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Why do you not have that? Yeah, why what's the difference?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I'm not scared of being wrong or scared of sounding stupid,
because I get annoyed with people when they try and
pretend there's something that they're not and I feel like
just saying if you don't know, I don't know what's
wrong with that? What's wrong with saying that you don't
know something? But what I want to do is I
learn and I'll come back and I will give you
the answer. That's a better answer than trying to make
up something. Being vulnerable is saying I don't have to
(32:54):
be perfect, and I'm not perfect just because I've got
a CEO behind my title. In fact, that means nothing
unless I can do my job well. And one of
the most important parts of the job is acknowledging the
fact that you're never going to be right all the time.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I describe vulnerability as speaking from the messy middle, right,
because the messy middle is you don't know, you know,
you don't know something you haven't sold. You're speaking from
a space where you haven't figured it all out.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
This is why I do this podcast, though, right because.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I need people like you on here saying this because
there are too many people in quite powerful positions and
affecting the lives and happiness of other people who walk
around Unfortunately. You say, I don't know why they do it,
because that's the world that we live, and it creates
a space that the smartest and you have all the answers,
and you're the most beautiful, and all these things stops
us from speaking from the messy middle.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Absolutely, And so to hear.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
That other successful people who are doing good in the
world are okay with that gives people permission, but not
enough people have given permission to be vulnerable at the top.
I agree, what's something you're aware of about yourself now
that you just weren't at the beginning of your career? Like,
what do you know now that you're like damn? Like,
if I could go back and tell young Anthony, hey,
I feel.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
As if I am a very good storyteller. You are,
And I think the power of story is not talked
about enough. I challenge you every time you've gone to
a lunch where they're talking, when anyone goes from talking
about something quantitatively or just about a subject and then
(34:18):
they bring a story into it. Hollywood calls it the
lean forward moment. I've got a great mane of mine
who just lives around the corner from or works around
the corner from here, Aaron Michael. He's actually Margot Robbie's
manager and another story, Margo was our ambassador.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
At young here and oh wow.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Anyway, so Aaron talks that those people that are amazing
in the world globally are those that they create those
lean forward moments, and you watch it. Next time you'll
see people at a lunch a good storyteller. They lean
Ford it's a physical responsible you want to dive into it,
(34:56):
and I think I'm pretty good at that. I'm bad
at a lot of things, but I think once you
tell story and then bring it back to the yes,
people will then.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Listen exactly right, because it's the real life experience. Then
you attach the thing you try and teach people to,
which is pretty much what I love. If I was
doing what I love to do, we'd be talking for
three and a half hours because I'll be telling you stories,
You're telling me stories. We're going round be amazing wine.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Oh one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I honestly could talk to you for a really long time.
I want to bottle what you are in lots of
ways and give it out to some of these leaders
that I meet. So I've got to wrap it up, though,
So I'll finish on one question. What's an opportunity you
said no two in the past that you say yes
to today.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I haven't said no to too many things. In fact, i'd
find it hard if I look at from a sort
of surface level. I was offered a scholarship to the
American Universities after the world jenis getting that silver metal
you get back from those and all the talent scouts
are there, and I had an offer to go to Harvard,
Ohio State, Kentucky and Notre Dame, and I probably should
(35:59):
have taken up one of those because I think it
would have opened up a different world from me. But
I don't regret it because then it opened up another
different world. What I regret is spending more time with
my mom and dad towards the end parts of their life.
Like I did as much as I possibly could, But
when you start seeing them fail and you know that
they're in their last couple of days, you're always full
(36:21):
of regrets. Then why don't I walk on the beach
with them one more time? Or why don't know if
they're fishing a dad? Or why do I sit down
with mum and hold a hand and one more time?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
They're the things that truly a thank Charnithan. This has
been beautiful. Thanks for coming on
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