February 10, 2025 • 35 mins
Antonia is without a doubt what you would call a pocket rocket. She packs a punch when it comes to energy, passion, hard work, achievement but more importantly is just one of those leaders who understands her role to inspire. From humble beginnings Antonia vulnerably shares her career journey, her challenges and life lessons to remind us all that when you believe in what you do, anything is possible.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO Series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
True emotionally intelligent leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I've picked up vomit once on our about our fourth flight,
and everybody thought, well, if it's good enough for him,
I can do it Now. We will be joined by
culture and leadership experts and some superstar CEOs who will
courageously tell us the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today,
I'm thrilled to be joined in the studio by the
vivacious Antonio Mercarella.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Antonio is the CEO of.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
ARIQ, the Real Estate Institute of Queensland, which is the
peak body representing real estate professionals across Queensland.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
At the time of her appointment, she made.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
History is arioq's first female CEO and the youngest as well.
With over a twenty year legal and executive management career,
Antonio has led and shaped some of the most significant
real estate legislative reforms across multiple jurisdictions. She's been named
one of the top ten most influential people in Queensland
real estate by The Korea Mail In twenty twenty three,
she earned a spot in the Queensland Power List and
(01:14):
has been a finalist in the twenty seventeen Telstra Businesswoman's
Award and now in the upcoming twenty twenty four Lord
Mayor Business Awards for the corea Male business Person of
the Year.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Pleasure to have you here in Tan.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I was thinking about the first time I met you,
and I wanted to tell you about this because I
went to a real estate of ento the Calah, wasn't it? Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Property insider me that one.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yes, And this is what stood out to me. Yeah,
they might think it's funny, and atually you're representing it
really well.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Today is you were so brightly dressed. I don't know
why that was such a big thing for me, but
I was like, it was so warm and inviting. And
it's interesting because when I don't know people don't know me,
you know, I don't know them particularly well. I always
find first impressions so important. And you were so smiling
and so friendly, and you made time for me and
you came over and talked. And when I think about
(02:02):
what makes great leaders, I think that moment is so important,
right and the impact it has.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
That's love that thank you. I didn't know that thank you.
That's very touching. Funny story about how much color I wear.
I'm originally from Adelaide and I also lived in Melbourne,
and growing up, I wore a lot of black and
I used to be a lawyer, so I used to
wear a lot of black corporate ware. And when I
first moved to Queensland, I was going to Ariq. I
(02:31):
was originally the general counsel and so I was still
dressing like a lawyer. I was wearing stockings and a
lot of dark suits, and I remember someone, a woman,
took me aside and said that's not going to work
in Queensland. And then I let go off the stockings,
which I can't even imagine going back to wearing stockings.
And then I started to incorporate color, and most of
(02:52):
my wardrobe now is really bright. And what I do
in the mornings when I wake up is I think
about how I'm feeling, and I often try and pick
a bright color to pick me up. It's really interesting
because to think that now I'm known as someone who
wears bright clothes, it's at the absolute opposite end of
the spectrum of how I used to dress.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That is an interesting story, and I know it might
sound a little bit random, but I was thinking about
sometimes what a difference that makes when you first meet somebody,
and how you can represent your energy in the way
you appear. And that's exactly what you're talking about. And
it made a difference if you were all I'm saying
this currently just black.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
But if you still love black people.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
But I just remember, and I think because I was
in a pink suit myself that day, Yes, somebody else,
bring the colors yourself, So I just thought I would
call that out because it was a wonderful first impression.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Well thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I know you started your career in law, as you
just said, and actually it was real estate law, if
I'm correct. But there's much more that I want to
talk about here. I did a little bit of digging,
and I know that you're a daughter of two Italian immigrants,
so can I ask you a bit of background there?
So when did your parents move to Australia and what
are your sort of earliest memories growing up that are
very Italian like what was instilled in you in those
(04:03):
early days?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I love talking about my upbringing, and I am very
much the product of that upbringing. Both of my parents
are Italian. They both came over in the sixties. Dad
came over first. They're from southern Italy, so very very poor.
I often say, I'm from peasant stock, a really basic
(04:25):
rural village, and there was no work, and so they
left to move here. We grew up speaking Italian. My grandmother,
my paternal grandmother, lived with us. She lived with us
the entire time from when she first emigrated to Australia
until her death. She lived with my mum and dad,
and she raised my sister and I and she didn't
(04:48):
speak any English. And like most Italians our street, we
had all of the relatives, all the uncles and aunties,
including uncles and aunties who aren't really uncle and cousins
who aren't technically cousins. And so my maternal grandmother lived
across the road, and then I had a bunch of
relatives around me, and we were very much you know,
(05:10):
I was raised by a community, but in a multi
generational household. And again a lot of my cousins had
their grandparents living with them and my parents that generation,
my parents' generation, they all went out to work, and
my parents had multiple jobs on the go at any point,
so I saw very little of them growing up. I
(05:30):
would wake up and they were usually gone. So my
sister and I were very independent from a very young age.
We would wake up, make our own breakfast, make our
own lunch. If you had any issues that arose at school,
you dealt with them yourself. There was no intervention from
mum and dad. Mum and dad had very limited in
English as well, and obviously my sister and I would
(05:51):
speak English to each other, and so that kind of
community upbringing. But there's so much to be said for
being raised by a community. But I think, in particular,
as I've gotten older, what I've understood is the benefit
of multi generational households. Also, I've come to understand the
(06:12):
value of wisdom, and something I talk a lot about
that I find really disappointing about Australia is the way
that we make a decision that people become irrelevant or
less relevant as they get older, and I find that
really disturbing. And I think people as they get older
(06:33):
offer such great wisdom. And I've always really enjoyed and
preferred hanging out with older people actually, and I think
the thing about being raised by my parents is they
had really limited English, very limited financial resources when they
first came to Australia. So what they've taught me is
this extreme work ethic, but also just they're really resourceful people,
(06:59):
and that's really rubbed off on me, you know, their
ability to take a little and turn it into a lot,
or if you encounter a problem, how to get over
that and how to find a solution. There are all
things that you don't understand and you don't necessarily consciously
turn your mind to when you're growing up. But now
that i'm this age and in this role, I really
(07:20):
see the benefit of that, the way that I'm able to,
you know, a problem emerges and I'm able to think
about creative solutions and find my way through it. And
then I think, just finally, the thing about my parents
is they're just salt of the earth people. They're the kindest,
most humble, really sincere, genuine people, and they live in Adelaide,
(07:42):
and whenever I return there, I'm reminded of that. That's
why I try and be a good person.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That I mean, obviously their hard work is it was
probably no surprise that you were going to go and
kick off your career, was being in a law firm?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
What you wanted to do or did.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
You have a secret, underlying passion for something different but
had to do something because mum and dad expected you to.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I was really lucky and Dad never really pressured my
sister and I. The only rule. Dad was very strict
about the fact we had to do year twelve, so
there was no negotiation around that Year twelve was a must.
And after that they always said you can do whatever
you like. We were never allowed to be dead beats. Yeah,
(08:24):
but both of our parents said, if you want to
go work after year twelve, that's okay. I didn't know
what I wanted to do, and I didn't grow up
wanting to be a lawyer. It wasn't a childhood passional
dream at all. Before I did law, I actually my
first degree, my undergraduate degree was actually in theater. So
I'm a frustrated their spinner, and so my first degree
(08:46):
was the degree that I did through the Faculty of
Performing Arts at Adelaide University, and then I went on
to do law. I feel like I should have a
better story around why I went into law, but it
was literally I got to the end of that first
degree and I didn't know what I wanted to do
after that.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Well, I guess that's it leads me on for fact
that obviously, you know you are the first female CEO
at Ariiq, you've done extraordinary things for Queensland, But as
a female, where did that ever come into play as
being a bit harder than it might have been if.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You weren't, or did it not?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
In my early days, even before I was CEO Fariq,
even when I was General Pown, I've had experiences where
I remember one particular incident where a meeting was to
take place, and funnily enough, it was with another lawyer
and I remember him thinking that I was there just
to make the tea and coffee and he was quite
surprised when he discovered I was the General Counsel. And
(09:40):
certainly in the early days I remember going into meetings
where I was sometimes the only woman in the room,
or certainly there were only a few women we were
with the exception rather than the rule. Things are really
different today. I will say, I'm not going to say
that I wasn't aware of the lack of females in
leadership roles, but quite genuinely, I have just plowed through it.
(10:04):
I think it probably comes back to my upbringing.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So with somebody who's you know, rising through the ranks.
You are the youngest female CEO at dariol.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I was youngest at the top appointment. Just to just
to qualify you, full are probably like, she's really, how
do you.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Keep yourself in check? Or is it even a thing?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I keep myself in check because I recognize that I
am in a very privileged position. I recognize how fortunate
I am to be in the role. But I also
know how hard I worked to get here, and I
also know how hard I continue to work. I work hard,
and my team works hard. So I recognize the profile
(10:44):
that the role has given me. I mean, this role
allows me to do things like I'll attend Parliamentary committee
inquiries and Senate inquiries, and I'll stand with the premiere
or with the opposition. I don't want to not recognize
the extraordinary benefits that come with the role. There are
days when your ego gets a bit of a boost,
(11:04):
You've done something and you walk away going that was
pretty cool. So I'm not saying I don't have those moments,
but honestly, you go home at the end of the day,
and I've got two kids, and I do grocery shopping
on a Saturday, even though I loathe it, and I
do all the normal things that all of us do.
And really, when you're doing all of those things, the
title you have at work and the role that you have,
(11:27):
it's what you do and it's not everything. My role
matters to me and it's really important to me, but
it's not everything. And I think the other thing is
people will say to me, your parents must be really
proud of what you've achieved, and they are. But the
beautiful thing about my parents is they don't really even
understand what you do. My mother will say to me
all the time, Ah, your uncle called and said he
(11:48):
saw you on television. What is it that you do again?
And I kind of love that my parents are so
real and I think that's why I am, hopefully the
way I am.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You are, and like, you've been really vulnerable even in
that conversation so far, and vulnerability, to me is like
a real course skill of a great leader when.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
You're mixing in the world. How does vulnerability come to
play in those moments?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I personally don't have a problem displaying my vulnerability. I
can be very strong when I need to be. I
don't think there's any shame in vulnerability. I think one
of the reasons that the ARIIQ has been so successful
and it's advocacy, and why perhaps I'm recognized as being
someone who is effective advocacy is because when you are
(12:30):
sitting with politicians, whether you're sitting with the premier or
the treasurer or the housing minister, and you're there and
you are advocating for what you want, You've got to
bring in stories. You've got to explain practicalities and impact
on the ground and impact on people's lives.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And I'm only good.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
At advocacy if I really believe in what I'm advocating for,
Otherwise I just can't do it. I think that shines
through and I think advocacy is all about a negotiation.
You're not going to get everything you want, but you're
going to try and get a lot of what you want.
You have to be able to meet in the middle,
and there's a lot of I hate the term soft skills,
(13:07):
but there are a lot of those soft skills involved,
and there's a human element in that, and I think
there has to be. And I've watched people where they
go into something and they're wanting something, and they just
go in aggressive. They're not prepared to see the other sides,
the other person's side of the story, or understand that
there is another aspect to this. And I think probably
(13:29):
what I'm pretty good at doing is understanding that I'm
going in and I'm serving the interests for my community,
but I'm also open to understanding what the other interests
are and what the other issues are. And then I
like going, Okay, now that I've understood that, how can
we meet somewhere in.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
The middle beautiful empathy in action. I think they're in
doing that.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Obviously, you've got two kids and your daughter and a sister,
and so has it ever been in this beautiful career
that you've had anything in your personal life.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
It's really impacted that part of your career that you've
had to juggle. Oh God, loss so much. Where do
I start? I have always worked when I had my children.
I continued to work when I had my first son.
I was in house counsel for an organization in South Australia.
I was supposed to have a year off. I ended
up back at work.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Months in when I had my second son, I was
running a law firm in South Australia, and a week
after giving birth, I put him in a little capsule
and I'd pop him under my desk. I'd go into
the office and pop him under my desk. So I've
always worked, and so the guilt has always been there.
I've always felt guilty, but I've also known that I
(14:42):
need to work because that's what lights the fire in
my belly. And I actually think that makes so.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It was what you wanted. It just the guilt of
what everyone expected of months to do.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, So I think that's always there. And then a
series of other My dad got cancer about a little
over ten years ago, which just rocked me to my core. Like,
even though he's now okay even just talking about it,
I remember at the time I felt like I had
a bowling ball permanently on my chest. Sorry, So that
(15:14):
was really challenging because I really wanted to go back
to Adelaide for that. And then more recently, my mother
was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and so I find as someone
who's very family orientated, is so challenging dealing with aging parents.
And I've got a sister an Adelaide who I adore,
(15:35):
and my niece. She's the daughter I never had. I
just love her to death. I've got a nephew who
I love too, said I have special So you know,
I really miss Adelaide and that kind of desire to
be back in Adelaide with my family and my roots,
but then my desire to be here doing what I
do for Ariiq, which I love. And of course I've
(15:56):
now got children who have grown up here, and I
have to be respectful of the fact that they have
lives and they want to stay here, and even though
they love their grandparents and their Adelaide family, their life
is here. And so that juggling app and trying to
kind of keep everyone happy, and that pull back to
your parents and back to your roots, that's really challenging.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
My mum got cancer when she was only sixty one
and I was in a very senior role at virgin
and I remember the day got the phone call, and
it's like when you say a bowling ball, It's like
everything just stopped and suddenly, I mean I.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Was like quite career obsessed, but it just didn't matter anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Unfortunately, my mom passed away after nine months of her
fight with cancer. But the hardest thing right, Like, it's just.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You can be in such a mode with work and
then something like that happens.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
It does it really rocks you to the core?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Oh, it just stops you dead in the track. Every day.
That's challenging.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Ow now, obviously with such a busy schedule.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I'm always fascinated by this because to be honest or
look at people like.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
You and I'm like, god, I feel like such an
underachiever sometimes.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
So the amount of things you can know, but you know,
it's truly you're always at these things and you're always
it's like one after the other. And I'm like, hang on,
I'm a female too, We're probably not different in age.
And I'm like, I seem like I'm a lot more
tired and exhausted.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
So how do you deal with this? Can you deal
with overwhelm or rest? In you know, RNL? What's your thing?
How do you keep it together?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You're telling you express So it's funny because it is
really tiring.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Don't be fool Thank god, you do get tired, of course.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I do. In fact, in the car driving here today,
I was thinking, gosh, I'm so exhausted, but I think
there's no magic to it. I love what I do,
I genuinely do. I had no idea I'd be doing
this role for as long as I am. I had
no intention of being here that long. But every day
something lights a fire in my belly. It helps that
(17:46):
I'm surrounded by people in the team who I really
enjoy working with, who are really committed people, so I
feel a real sense of obligation to them. I feel
a real obligation to Ariq. I feel like I treat
the Ariiq like it's mine, like my baby. It's not.
I've had a number of members over the years remind
(18:07):
me that it's not my business, but I feel like
I've been entrusted with the custodianship of running it. And
it's the one hundred and sixty year old organization, like
it's got such deep history, and so I feel really
strongly about representing it properly and representing the people that
are part of our community. And I really love working
(18:27):
like I get that from my parents. It's probably an
unhealthy obsession.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I think it's interesting because you know, for listeners who
know a lot about resilience, like there's multifacets to actually
being really resilient, and one of them is being really
connected to your purpose right and knowingly going It sounds
like that's a big I'm seeing that as a theme
with people. If you really love what you do, when
you see a vision for it, you find energy that
maybe you wouldn't normally have.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Right, It's so true, And I think sometimes people misunderstand
my role. Yes, a lot of it's about advocacy, but
you know, the beautiful part. I guess because of how
long I've been doing it and the trust that now
exists at board level, I'm given a lot of license.
And so what I've tried to do is we now
as a team, myself but also a number of my team,
(19:11):
we dedicate a huge amount of time to a range
of other charities and other stakeholder organizations we work with.
And that work, I really love it. It's around homelessness
and domestic violence and helping younger people and helping people
in general to understand about real estate, about their rights
(19:31):
and their obligations. Like, I really love that. I love
the way that we serve the broader community. Obviously we
serve the real estate community given who we are, but
there's a much broader role.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
There that I really love, and I want to talk
about that. Actually in a minute. What I hear a
lot antonia, is a lot of this giving out right.
I do this for pe, do this, do this? How
do you regenerate personally?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I always think it's important for listeners who speak to,
you know, women in these kind of roles, to go, yeah,
but what do you do?
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Like?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Are we meditating? Are we yoguring? And we all she's
shaking head? What does that?
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Pap? And come on, dreading up dreading this question. So
I don't have a great answer for I ask it
before and I was trying to suck it around it,
but you went back tell the truth. I'm happy with
the truth.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
If there is no answer true, it.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Is devastatingly embarrassing. In fact, I said to a friend
the other day, imagine if I was to go for
a job interview tomorrow and they said what are your hobbies?
I would just go dead silent. I am not good
at self care. In fact, I'm shocking at it. I
love eating. I love food. I'm Italian, so I do
love going out to dinner. I actually really enjoy hanging
out with my kids. Now. I mean that's sincerely, like
(20:37):
they're at a really nice age. I love going to
the theater. I don't do it enough.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Sometimes it might be watching you know, math and mindless
TV shows, your way of disconnecting.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yes, sometimes I do that. I don't watch TV. But
what I will do is there are some nights or
days where I just need to completely switch off and
I'll binge watch something. Yeah, I quite enjoy doing that.
That feels a bit self indulgent and really deckat it.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
It's not okay good.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
So I want to talk a bit about okay leadership
and your role, your CEO role in my experience, like
the CEO holds this responsibility between leading and inspiring people
but also meeting business priorities and goals. It's no mean
feat to do both, right, So how do you find
that juggle sometimes in terms of being that leader for
people and the cult running that they sort of inspiring
(21:25):
the culture, but then also having to meet all.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
These business needs.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I think that is the juggling acts right. Some days
I feel like I nail it. Other days I feel
like what am I doing here? It's really challenging because
I think ultimately I'm there to protect to serve THERIIQ,
to promote its interests, to continue to grow it and
make it a sustainable business, which is not easy with
this type of a business. And obviously there are strategic
(21:50):
priorities that need to be actioned and implemented. And then
at the other end, you've got the most important asset,
which is the human beings who work, and that can
be really challenging because you're really wanting to look after
your team. And I genuinely care about the people I
work with. I do, but I think any leader will
tell you that can be really challenging. Where you've got
(22:13):
days that your diary is literally there's like a fifteen
minute break for some food, and then you've got people
who need you that day. I think that's the juggling act.
I think some days it feels easier. The other thing
that can be really challenging is when you've got team
members who they're good people, they're good human beings, but
(22:35):
they're not the right cultural fit or they're not performing.
So those are always tough conversations where you want to
look after your team, but you also have to look
after the best interes of the business. And I've tried
to do a lot of professional development on this issue
to try and get better at managing those two things.
I think I've gotten better at it over the years,
(22:56):
but I don't know that it's ever perfect. And it's
that challenge of when you bring people into the team,
you really want to preserve the culture. You've got this team,
and you've got this culture, and you're fiercely protective of it,
and you're like, Okay, I've got it. Now, I've nailed it.
We've got this great group of people who generally gell
really well and it's working. But you know it's coming
that inevitably someone comes along or something a particular issue
(23:20):
comes along, and then it just throws it into disarray. Right,
you can watch it happening because you recognize it, and
you go, I can see what's happening. The wills are
starting to fall off, and it could start with something
really minor, and before you know it, you've got this
kind of big issue that's hanging over your head that
you know you have to manage and deal with.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Because you hold yourself to such high standards, do you
feel you also do that of those who work for you.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's a good question. I don't think I hold anyone
to the same standard that I hold myself. I just
don't even think that's possible. I do think though I
have high expectations of people. I will say that. In fact,
I've had people say to me, your expectations are very high.
So I recognize that about myself. But my view on
(24:07):
that is that I'm not asking you to do anything
that I'm not doing. I think it's different if you've
got a leader who marches around issuing orders but then
doesn't think that they need to play a role. I'm
not like that at all. My team knows when something
needs to be done. I will roll my sleeves up
(24:29):
and I will get in there and do it. And
now there'll be people who will say that I shouldn't
do that, that that's not what a CEO does. That's okay,
I get that, But that's the kind of CEO I
want to be. I decided sort of several years ago
that I'm going to be the CEO I want to be.
I'm not going to try and get a list of
attributes and characteristics and try and pick them all off.
(24:50):
I am who I am. I am a very involved CEO.
I don't think i'm a micro manager, but I am
involved and so although I do have high expectations for
my team, I hope that I demonstrate right that I
hold myself to the highest standard and expectations as well.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You said earlier about the fact that you know you
can get the culture to a point where it's kind
of humming, and then you know, is that deliberate as
and do you have sort of some deliberate approaches when
it comes to culture, like we've got to do there's
some rituals that we have to do that you think
make a great culture or is it kind of organic?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I think we've tried some things over the years that
have felt a little bit staged and manufactioned. I'm not
a big fan of those things. I'd rather develop that
culture organically. So the sorts of things I believe in
and I try and do is I believe in transparency,
communicating well. I am very visible at the ARIIQ I'm involved.
(25:50):
I will always say good morning, I will stop and
have conversations with people, and I expect others to do that.
The other thing that I am big on is I'm
not a fan of hierarchy. It's just not who I am. Yes,
I happen to hold the role and title of CEO.
But my view is that each of us is equally important.
(26:13):
We just play different roles. So again, I try to
go to work and be a decent human being. I
really do. There are times I have to make tough decisions.
There are probably people who have worked with me listening
to this. Maybe they don't think I'm a good person,
but I certainly try to be a good person and
a good leader. But there are times that you have
(26:33):
to make really difficult decisions. And that's how we try
and build good culture. I mean, look, there are some
other things we do. We have a people and culture
kind of team that focuses on culture. We do a
lot of eating at THERIIQ, lots of social activities. We're
always in the kitchen, We're always eating, people are always baking.
There's a lot that sort of centers around food, which
(26:56):
I think makes people really happy. We do social activities,
but we also work really hard, right. We do all
sorts of things to try and measure, cure and make
sure that we're not believing our own hype. Are we perfect? No,
We're not perfect. I wish we were, but I'm yet
to find any kind of a workplace that is perfection.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I agree this is a little controversial, this one.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I'm interesting to you view recently, when I was talking
about my Brave VR product that we've just come out with,
one of the stats that I always find this mind
blowing is eighty three percent of all employees expect their
employer to provide personal development support. And when I've had
this conversation year's gone by, most people would say to me,
it's not our responsibility to provide that for employees. My
personal view is whether you think it's your responsibility or not,
(27:41):
that's what people expect, and it's becoming more and more
that people expected.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
So either it's you lean into it and provide it
or you don't. Totally open to your view on that one.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Oh, I think you've got to do that. We budget
for professional development for all of the team. There's one
column if you like, that's about professional development that all
of us will benefit from. Yep, so we might do
that as a team. And then there's professional development that
is very specific and relevant to your role. And my
view on that is, I'm not going to tell you
(28:11):
what professional development you should go do. In that latter category.
If you're the CFO, You're going to choose professional development
that's relevant to that role, that allows you to enhance
your skills in that area. I'm not going to know
what that looks like. My general counsel will pick and
choose what she goes to, and everyone will go off
and do whatever professional development they want. The other thing
(28:32):
we offer every team member at the ARIIQ is we
offer them the real estate registration course so they can
all do it free of charge, so that they actually
understand the people that we are serving. So I think
professional development is absolutely love that, like you, just a.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Great I can't avoid it.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, okay, I heard this great question the other day.
It's by a Harvard psychologist, Susan David. She's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I'm nervous you should be known.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
I'm key.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
It's basically what you told me. But I love this question, Antonia.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Why should anyone be led by you?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
You've really got mistuned. It's a great question.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Right all right? Well, I'm going to say I think
it's because I am the person who believes in the ARIIQ.
I genuinely believe in the ARIIQ. I believe in what
we're doing, and my role is to lead that organization.
But I can only do that with the support of
(29:32):
the team around me. And i'd like to think that
although I am the leader, my role is to bundle
everyone together and say, let's do this together.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Beautiful, because it's about your passion for it.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Why people should be led by you is because.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You believe in this and you're going to go to pustion,
You're going to advocate and you're going to do that
and that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
But I think it's a great question because.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I think it talks a lot the fact that if
I ask your staff, I bet you they would find
easier to articulate.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Well, it's a hard question, you said yourself. You're the
harshest critics on yourself.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Right, you talked before about your role at ARIOQ, but
also the charity work and the stuff that you do
to support, you know, the different groups across Brisbane. The
Forgotten Women is one that you're really passionate about. And
I think this is an amazing initiative which is obviously
committed to providing fit for purpose housing for homeless women
over fifty five years of age. And I think it's
a really really important cause and I wanted to mention it.
(30:26):
I'm here because I remember my mom, after going through
her divorce and having not worked for a lot of
her career, being in that exact potential position.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Like even myself.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I'm a single mum of kids, and you know, if
I don't make the money, there's no fallback, There's nowhere
for me to go.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And I can see how quickly and easily it could happen.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And that's right. I'm so blessed to be in this role.
But none of us are immune from it. And I
think these are women over the age of fifty five,
and it is the largest growing demographic of homelessness. I
find that so disturbing when I think about my grandmother,
when I think about my mother, like aunties, sisters, our friends,
(31:06):
it's just women living in cars, and of course you
can imagine that comes with the fairly severe level of risk.
And what's really disturbing is that even though our charity
is dedicated to women over fifty five, the average age
of our clients it's actually seventy two, and we have
women that we are assisting who are in their nineteens.
(31:30):
Like you know, I say this to my kids all
the time. If we see a homeless person and we think, oh,
well they've chosen that, or you know, people make those
sorts of comments. You know, it's really not especially in
the current environment. It's one decision or one moment, correct,
that can lead you to that. That's why I felt
really compelled to get involved when I imagine them living
(31:53):
in cars or not having security of housing and actually
makes me feel ill. And so it's not talked about.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I feel like it's not talked about.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Well, it's not talked about a lot. It's only I
feel like it's a topic. It's not new, but it's
become far more prevalent, and we are now bringing it
out into the light and we're talking about it so
much more. That's not to say that I don't care
about men who are homeless, of course I do. But
I think we've got to recognize that the facts are
(32:24):
that this is affecting women over the age of fifty
five disproportionately correct. That's on account of economic and social
factors that I think we can all reckonect.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I mean, I think for both of us, why are
we so strong advocates for women pursuing careers? And it's
because of this right, Like you know, my mum's generation.
It wasn't pushed that she would go off and work,
and she stayed at home and she was a stay
at her mum. She was a great stay at homer.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah, but the result was, and I look, I don't
have daughters that I preach to all of my friend's daughters.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I'm like, get married, have kids, but get a career,
because you know what, as like, if it doesn't work
out and you can't guarantee that it's all going to
end in a fairy.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Tale, now you've got something to fall back on.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
And that's what I've seen of a lot of my
own friends going through marriage breakdowns and so forth, is
that they're not the bread warner. In fact, they might
have not worked for a really long time, and building
a career once you hit forty is challenging with the
current pricing crisis that we've got. So I think, you know,
I can see why this is happening now that we're
seeing women in that age bracket, and so I just, yeah,
I think it's something that is a really important cause.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, I feel really strongly about that particular cause. And
I'm also involved in a number of other initiatives that
relate to domestic and family violence. Again, that's something that
as a UNI student, a girlfriend of mine was a
social worker and she worked in a women's shelter and
I would volunteer there and help out. And you know,
at a very young age, I had a very probably
(33:46):
quite a sheltered upbringing. If I'm honest, I hadn't understood,
you know, when she first got me involved, I couldn't
quite comprehend. I was quite young, and so that really
opened my eyes to that issue. And of course, sadly,
you know, those rates of domestic violencer are higher than ever,
and of course that's also leading to homelessness. So I
(34:07):
feel really blessed that I'm able to get involved in
these other charities and initiatives and hopefully use I guess
the profile that I've been able to build to shine
a light on these issues and raise funds for them.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
You absolutely are.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Look, I could talk to you for ages, especially ever
a ball of pastor and a veno, but given it's
only eleven am, so I'm going to have to wrap
it up.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
One question for you, Antonia. All right, let's go back
to twenty year old Antonia. She's in South Australia. I'm
assuming yes, what's the best advice you would give to
her today?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Oh, I would tell her to have more fun. I
would tell her to have more fun and to try
and travel more. I have had fun. I probably took
life way too seriously at a young age, and as
a fifty year old woman, I would tell my twenty
year old self have more fun, don't take it all
so seriously, and travel more. Oh.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I love that absolutely well, it's been an a sleute
pleasure have been you, and genuinely mean this. I love
the work that you do, but I also I can
see why you will burn yourself to the ground sometimes
because what you do can have such amazing impact and
influence on people.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
And so it's been a pleasure. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
You've had a lot of fun there
Apoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO Series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
True emotionally intelligent leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I've picked up vomit once on our about our fourth flight,
and everybody thought, well, if it's good enough for him,
I can do it Now. We will be joined by
culture and leadership experts and some superstar CEOs who will
courageously tell us the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today,
I'm thrilled to be joined in the studio by the
vivacious Antonio Mercarella.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Antonio is the CEO of.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
ARIQ, the Real Estate Institute of Queensland, which is the
peak body representing real estate professionals across Queensland.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
At the time of her appointment, she made.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
History is arioq's first female CEO and the youngest as well.
With over a twenty year legal and executive management career,
Antonio has led and shaped some of the most significant
real estate legislative reforms across multiple jurisdictions. She's been named
one of the top ten most influential people in Queensland
real estate by The Korea Mail In twenty twenty three,
she earned a spot in the Queensland Power List and
(01:14):
has been a finalist in the twenty seventeen Telstra Businesswoman's
Award and now in the upcoming twenty twenty four Lord
Mayor Business Awards for the corea Male business Person of
the Year.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Pleasure to have you here in Tan.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's great to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I was thinking about the first time I met you,
and I wanted to tell you about this because I
went to a real estate of ento the Calah, wasn't it? Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Property insider me that one.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yes, And this is what stood out to me. Yeah,
they might think it's funny, and atually you're representing it
really well.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Today is you were so brightly dressed. I don't know
why that was such a big thing for me, but
I was like, it was so warm and inviting. And
it's interesting because when I don't know people don't know me,
you know, I don't know them particularly well. I always
find first impressions so important. And you were so smiling
and so friendly, and you made time for me and
you came over and talked. And when I think about
(02:02):
what makes great leaders, I think that moment is so important,
right and the impact it has.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
That's love that thank you. I didn't know that thank you.
That's very touching. Funny story about how much color I wear.
I'm originally from Adelaide and I also lived in Melbourne,
and growing up, I wore a lot of black and
I used to be a lawyer, so I used to
wear a lot of black corporate ware. And when I
first moved to Queensland, I was going to Ariq. I
(02:31):
was originally the general counsel and so I was still
dressing like a lawyer. I was wearing stockings and a
lot of dark suits, and I remember someone, a woman,
took me aside and said that's not going to work
in Queensland. And then I let go off the stockings,
which I can't even imagine going back to wearing stockings.
And then I started to incorporate color, and most of
(02:52):
my wardrobe now is really bright. And what I do
in the mornings when I wake up is I think
about how I'm feeling, and I often try and pick
a bright color to pick me up. It's really interesting
because to think that now I'm known as someone who
wears bright clothes, it's at the absolute opposite end of
the spectrum of how I used to dress.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That is an interesting story, and I know it might
sound a little bit random, but I was thinking about
sometimes what a difference that makes when you first meet somebody,
and how you can represent your energy in the way
you appear. And that's exactly what you're talking about. And
it made a difference if you were all I'm saying
this currently just black.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
But if you still love black people.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
But I just remember, and I think because I was
in a pink suit myself that day, Yes, somebody else,
bring the colors yourself, So I just thought I would
call that out because it was a wonderful first impression.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Well thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I know you started your career in law, as you
just said, and actually it was real estate law, if
I'm correct. But there's much more that I want to
talk about here. I did a little bit of digging,
and I know that you're a daughter of two Italian immigrants,
so can I ask you a bit of background there?
So when did your parents move to Australia and what
are your sort of earliest memories growing up that are
very Italian like what was instilled in you in those
(04:03):
early days?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I love talking about my upbringing, and I am very
much the product of that upbringing. Both of my parents
are Italian. They both came over in the sixties. Dad
came over first. They're from southern Italy, so very very poor.
I often say, I'm from peasant stock, a really basic
(04:25):
rural village, and there was no work, and so they
left to move here. We grew up speaking Italian. My grandmother,
my paternal grandmother, lived with us. She lived with us
the entire time from when she first emigrated to Australia
until her death. She lived with my mum and dad,
and she raised my sister and I and she didn't
(04:48):
speak any English. And like most Italians our street, we
had all of the relatives, all the uncles and aunties,
including uncles and aunties who aren't really uncle and cousins
who aren't technically cousins. And so my maternal grandmother lived
across the road, and then I had a bunch of
relatives around me, and we were very much you know,
(05:10):
I was raised by a community, but in a multi
generational household. And again a lot of my cousins had
their grandparents living with them and my parents that generation,
my parents' generation, they all went out to work, and
my parents had multiple jobs on the go at any point,
so I saw very little of them growing up. I
(05:30):
would wake up and they were usually gone. So my
sister and I were very independent from a very young age.
We would wake up, make our own breakfast, make our
own lunch. If you had any issues that arose at school,
you dealt with them yourself. There was no intervention from
mum and dad. Mum and dad had very limited in
English as well, and obviously my sister and I would
(05:51):
speak English to each other, and so that kind of
community upbringing. But there's so much to be said for
being raised by a community. But I think, in particular,
as I've gotten older, what I've understood is the benefit
of multi generational households. Also, I've come to understand the
(06:12):
value of wisdom, and something I talk a lot about
that I find really disappointing about Australia is the way
that we make a decision that people become irrelevant or
less relevant as they get older, and I find that
really disturbing. And I think people as they get older
(06:33):
offer such great wisdom. And I've always really enjoyed and
preferred hanging out with older people actually, and I think
the thing about being raised by my parents is they
had really limited English, very limited financial resources when they
first came to Australia. So what they've taught me is
this extreme work ethic, but also just they're really resourceful people,
(06:59):
and that's really rubbed off on me, you know, their
ability to take a little and turn it into a lot,
or if you encounter a problem, how to get over
that and how to find a solution. There are all
things that you don't understand and you don't necessarily consciously
turn your mind to when you're growing up. But now
that i'm this age and in this role, I really
(07:20):
see the benefit of that, the way that I'm able to,
you know, a problem emerges and I'm able to think
about creative solutions and find my way through it. And
then I think, just finally, the thing about my parents
is they're just salt of the earth people. They're the kindest,
most humble, really sincere, genuine people, and they live in Adelaide,
(07:42):
and whenever I return there, I'm reminded of that. That's
why I try and be a good person.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
That I mean, obviously their hard work is it was
probably no surprise that you were going to go and
kick off your career, was being in a law firm?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
What you wanted to do or did.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
You have a secret, underlying passion for something different but
had to do something because mum and dad expected you to.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I was really lucky and Dad never really pressured my
sister and I. The only rule. Dad was very strict
about the fact we had to do year twelve, so
there was no negotiation around that Year twelve was a must.
And after that they always said you can do whatever
you like. We were never allowed to be dead beats. Yeah,
(08:24):
but both of our parents said, if you want to
go work after year twelve, that's okay. I didn't know
what I wanted to do, and I didn't grow up
wanting to be a lawyer. It wasn't a childhood passional
dream at all. Before I did law, I actually my
first degree, my undergraduate degree was actually in theater. So
I'm a frustrated their spinner, and so my first degree
(08:46):
was the degree that I did through the Faculty of
Performing Arts at Adelaide University, and then I went on
to do law. I feel like I should have a
better story around why I went into law, but it
was literally I got to the end of that first
degree and I didn't know what I wanted to do
after that.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Well, I guess that's it leads me on for fact
that obviously, you know you are the first female CEO
at Ariiq, you've done extraordinary things for Queensland, But as
a female, where did that ever come into play as
being a bit harder than it might have been if.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
You weren't, or did it not?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
In my early days, even before I was CEO Fariq,
even when I was General Pown, I've had experiences where
I remember one particular incident where a meeting was to
take place, and funnily enough, it was with another lawyer
and I remember him thinking that I was there just
to make the tea and coffee and he was quite
surprised when he discovered I was the General Counsel. And
(09:40):
certainly in the early days I remember going into meetings
where I was sometimes the only woman in the room,
or certainly there were only a few women we were
with the exception rather than the rule. Things are really
different today. I will say, I'm not going to say
that I wasn't aware of the lack of females in
leadership roles, but quite genuinely, I have just plowed through it.
(10:04):
I think it probably comes back to my upbringing.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So with somebody who's you know, rising through the ranks.
You are the youngest female CEO at dariol.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I was youngest at the top appointment. Just to just
to qualify you, full are probably like, she's really, how
do you.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Keep yourself in check? Or is it even a thing?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I keep myself in check because I recognize that I
am in a very privileged position. I recognize how fortunate
I am to be in the role. But I also
know how hard I worked to get here, and I
also know how hard I continue to work. I work hard,
and my team works hard. So I recognize the profile
(10:44):
that the role has given me. I mean, this role
allows me to do things like I'll attend Parliamentary committee
inquiries and Senate inquiries, and I'll stand with the premiere
or with the opposition. I don't want to not recognize
the extraordinary benefits that come with the role. There are
days when your ego gets a bit of a boost,
(11:04):
You've done something and you walk away going that was
pretty cool. So I'm not saying I don't have those moments,
but honestly, you go home at the end of the day,
and I've got two kids, and I do grocery shopping
on a Saturday, even though I loathe it, and I
do all the normal things that all of us do.
And really, when you're doing all of those things, the
title you have at work and the role that you have,
(11:27):
it's what you do and it's not everything. My role
matters to me and it's really important to me, but
it's not everything. And I think the other thing is
people will say to me, your parents must be really
proud of what you've achieved, and they are. But the
beautiful thing about my parents is they don't really even
understand what you do. My mother will say to me
all the time, Ah, your uncle called and said he
(11:48):
saw you on television. What is it that you do again?
And I kind of love that my parents are so
real and I think that's why I am, hopefully the
way I am.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You are, and like, you've been really vulnerable even in
that conversation so far, and vulnerability, to me is like
a real course skill of a great leader when.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
You're mixing in the world. How does vulnerability come to
play in those moments?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I personally don't have a problem displaying my vulnerability. I
can be very strong when I need to be. I
don't think there's any shame in vulnerability. I think one
of the reasons that the ARIIQ has been so successful
and it's advocacy, and why perhaps I'm recognized as being
someone who is effective advocacy is because when you are
(12:30):
sitting with politicians, whether you're sitting with the premier or
the treasurer or the housing minister, and you're there and
you are advocating for what you want, You've got to
bring in stories. You've got to explain practicalities and impact
on the ground and impact on people's lives.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And I'm only good.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
At advocacy if I really believe in what I'm advocating for,
Otherwise I just can't do it. I think that shines
through and I think advocacy is all about a negotiation.
You're not going to get everything you want, but you're
going to try and get a lot of what you want.
You have to be able to meet in the middle,
and there's a lot of I hate the term soft skills,
(13:07):
but there are a lot of those soft skills involved,
and there's a human element in that, and I think
there has to be. And I've watched people where they
go into something and they're wanting something, and they just
go in aggressive. They're not prepared to see the other sides,
the other person's side of the story, or understand that
there is another aspect to this. And I think probably
(13:29):
what I'm pretty good at doing is understanding that I'm
going in and I'm serving the interests for my community,
but I'm also open to understanding what the other interests
are and what the other issues are. And then I
like going, Okay, now that I've understood that, how can
we meet somewhere in.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
The middle beautiful empathy in action. I think they're in
doing that.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Obviously, you've got two kids and your daughter and a sister,
and so has it ever been in this beautiful career
that you've had anything in your personal life.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
It's really impacted that part of your career that you've
had to juggle. Oh God, loss so much. Where do
I start? I have always worked when I had my children.
I continued to work when I had my first son.
I was in house counsel for an organization in South Australia.
I was supposed to have a year off. I ended
up back at work.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Months in when I had my second son, I was
running a law firm in South Australia, and a week
after giving birth, I put him in a little capsule
and I'd pop him under my desk. I'd go into
the office and pop him under my desk. So I've
always worked, and so the guilt has always been there.
I've always felt guilty, but I've also known that I
(14:42):
need to work because that's what lights the fire in
my belly. And I actually think that makes so.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
It was what you wanted. It just the guilt of
what everyone expected of months to do.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, So I think that's always there. And then a
series of other My dad got cancer about a little
over ten years ago, which just rocked me to my core. Like,
even though he's now okay even just talking about it,
I remember at the time I felt like I had
a bowling ball permanently on my chest. Sorry, So that
(15:14):
was really challenging because I really wanted to go back
to Adelaide for that. And then more recently, my mother
was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and so I find as someone
who's very family orientated, is so challenging dealing with aging parents.
And I've got a sister an Adelaide who I adore,
(15:35):
and my niece. She's the daughter I never had. I
just love her to death. I've got a nephew who
I love too, said I have special So you know,
I really miss Adelaide and that kind of desire to
be back in Adelaide with my family and my roots,
but then my desire to be here doing what I
do for Ariiq, which I love. And of course I've
(15:56):
now got children who have grown up here, and I
have to be respectful of the fact that they have
lives and they want to stay here, and even though
they love their grandparents and their Adelaide family, their life
is here. And so that juggling app and trying to
kind of keep everyone happy, and that pull back to
your parents and back to your roots, that's really challenging.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
My mum got cancer when she was only sixty one
and I was in a very senior role at virgin
and I remember the day got the phone call, and
it's like when you say a bowling ball, It's like
everything just stopped and suddenly, I mean I.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Was like quite career obsessed, but it just didn't matter anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Unfortunately, my mom passed away after nine months of her
fight with cancer. But the hardest thing right, Like, it's just.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You can be in such a mode with work and
then something like that happens.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
It does it really rocks you to the core?
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Oh, it just stops you dead in the track. Every day.
That's challenging.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Ow now, obviously with such a busy schedule.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I'm always fascinated by this because to be honest or
look at people like.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
You and I'm like, god, I feel like such an
underachiever sometimes.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
So the amount of things you can know, but you know,
it's truly you're always at these things and you're always
it's like one after the other. And I'm like, hang on,
I'm a female too, We're probably not different in age.
And I'm like, I seem like I'm a lot more
tired and exhausted.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
So how do you deal with this? Can you deal
with overwhelm or rest? In you know, RNL? What's your thing?
How do you keep it together?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You're telling you express So it's funny because it is
really tiring.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Don't be fool Thank god, you do get tired, of course.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I do. In fact, in the car driving here today,
I was thinking, gosh, I'm so exhausted, but I think
there's no magic to it. I love what I do,
I genuinely do. I had no idea I'd be doing
this role for as long as I am. I had
no intention of being here that long. But every day
something lights a fire in my belly. It helps that
(17:46):
I'm surrounded by people in the team who I really
enjoy working with, who are really committed people, so I
feel a real sense of obligation to them. I feel
a real obligation to Ariq. I feel like I treat
the Ariiq like it's mine, like my baby. It's not.
I've had a number of members over the years remind
(18:07):
me that it's not my business, but I feel like
I've been entrusted with the custodianship of running it. And
it's the one hundred and sixty year old organization, like
it's got such deep history, and so I feel really
strongly about representing it properly and representing the people that
are part of our community. And I really love working
(18:27):
like I get that from my parents. It's probably an
unhealthy obsession.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I think it's interesting because you know, for listeners who
know a lot about resilience, like there's multifacets to actually
being really resilient, and one of them is being really
connected to your purpose right and knowingly going It sounds
like that's a big I'm seeing that as a theme
with people. If you really love what you do, when
you see a vision for it, you find energy that
maybe you wouldn't normally have.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Right, It's so true, And I think sometimes people misunderstand
my role. Yes, a lot of it's about advocacy, but
you know, the beautiful part. I guess because of how
long I've been doing it and the trust that now
exists at board level, I'm given a lot of license.
And so what I've tried to do is we now
as a team, myself but also a number of my team,
(19:11):
we dedicate a huge amount of time to a range
of other charities and other stakeholder organizations we work with.
And that work, I really love it. It's around homelessness
and domestic violence and helping younger people and helping people
in general to understand about real estate, about their rights
(19:31):
and their obligations. Like, I really love that. I love
the way that we serve the broader community. Obviously we
serve the real estate community given who we are, but
there's a much broader role.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
There that I really love, and I want to talk
about that. Actually in a minute. What I hear a
lot antonia, is a lot of this giving out right.
I do this for pe, do this, do this? How
do you regenerate personally?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I always think it's important for listeners who speak to,
you know, women in these kind of roles, to go, yeah,
but what do you do?
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Like?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Are we meditating? Are we yoguring? And we all she's
shaking head? What does that?
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Pap? And come on, dreading up dreading this question. So
I don't have a great answer for I ask it
before and I was trying to suck it around it,
but you went back tell the truth. I'm happy with
the truth.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
If there is no answer true, it.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Is devastatingly embarrassing. In fact, I said to a friend
the other day, imagine if I was to go for
a job interview tomorrow and they said what are your hobbies?
I would just go dead silent. I am not good
at self care. In fact, I'm shocking at it. I
love eating. I love food. I'm Italian, so I do
love going out to dinner. I actually really enjoy hanging
out with my kids. Now. I mean that's sincerely, like
(20:37):
they're at a really nice age. I love going to
the theater. I don't do it enough.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Sometimes it might be watching you know, math and mindless
TV shows, your way of disconnecting.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yes, sometimes I do that. I don't watch TV. But
what I will do is there are some nights or
days where I just need to completely switch off and
I'll binge watch something. Yeah, I quite enjoy doing that.
That feels a bit self indulgent and really deckat it.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
It's not okay good.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
So I want to talk a bit about okay leadership
and your role, your CEO role in my experience, like
the CEO holds this responsibility between leading and inspiring people
but also meeting business priorities and goals. It's no mean
feat to do both, right, So how do you find
that juggle sometimes in terms of being that leader for
people and the cult running that they sort of inspiring
(21:25):
the culture, but then also having to meet all.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
These business needs.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I think that is the juggling acts right. Some days
I feel like I nail it. Other days I feel
like what am I doing here? It's really challenging because
I think ultimately I'm there to protect to serve THERIIQ,
to promote its interests, to continue to grow it and
make it a sustainable business, which is not easy with
this type of a business. And obviously there are strategic
(21:50):
priorities that need to be actioned and implemented. And then
at the other end, you've got the most important asset,
which is the human beings who work, and that can
be really challenging because you're really wanting to look after
your team. And I genuinely care about the people I
work with. I do, but I think any leader will
tell you that can be really challenging. Where you've got
(22:13):
days that your diary is literally there's like a fifteen
minute break for some food, and then you've got people
who need you that day. I think that's the juggling act.
I think some days it feels easier. The other thing
that can be really challenging is when you've got team
members who they're good people, they're good human beings, but
(22:35):
they're not the right cultural fit or they're not performing.
So those are always tough conversations where you want to
look after your team, but you also have to look
after the best interes of the business. And I've tried
to do a lot of professional development on this issue
to try and get better at managing those two things.
I think I've gotten better at it over the years,
(22:56):
but I don't know that it's ever perfect. And it's
that challenge of when you bring people into the team,
you really want to preserve the culture. You've got this team,
and you've got this culture, and you're fiercely protective of it,
and you're like, Okay, I've got it. Now, I've nailed it.
We've got this great group of people who generally gell
really well and it's working. But you know it's coming
that inevitably someone comes along or something a particular issue
(23:20):
comes along, and then it just throws it into disarray. Right,
you can watch it happening because you recognize it, and
you go, I can see what's happening. The wills are
starting to fall off, and it could start with something
really minor, and before you know it, you've got this
kind of big issue that's hanging over your head that
you know you have to manage and deal with.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Because you hold yourself to such high standards, do you
feel you also do that of those who work for you.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's a good question. I don't think I hold anyone
to the same standard that I hold myself. I just
don't even think that's possible. I do think though I
have high expectations of people. I will say that. In fact,
I've had people say to me, your expectations are very high.
So I recognize that about myself. But my view on
(24:07):
that is that I'm not asking you to do anything
that I'm not doing. I think it's different if you've
got a leader who marches around issuing orders but then
doesn't think that they need to play a role. I'm
not like that at all. My team knows when something
needs to be done. I will roll my sleeves up
(24:29):
and I will get in there and do it. And
now there'll be people who will say that I shouldn't
do that, that that's not what a CEO does. That's okay,
I get that, But that's the kind of CEO I
want to be. I decided sort of several years ago
that I'm going to be the CEO I want to be.
I'm not going to try and get a list of
attributes and characteristics and try and pick them all off.
(24:50):
I am who I am. I am a very involved CEO.
I don't think i'm a micro manager, but I am
involved and so although I do have high expectations for
my team, I hope that I demonstrate right that I
hold myself to the highest standard and expectations as well.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
You said earlier about the fact that you know you
can get the culture to a point where it's kind
of humming, and then you know, is that deliberate as
and do you have sort of some deliberate approaches when
it comes to culture, like we've got to do there's
some rituals that we have to do that you think
make a great culture or is it kind of organic?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I think we've tried some things over the years that
have felt a little bit staged and manufactioned. I'm not
a big fan of those things. I'd rather develop that
culture organically. So the sorts of things I believe in
and I try and do is I believe in transparency,
communicating well. I am very visible at the ARIIQ I'm involved.
(25:50):
I will always say good morning, I will stop and
have conversations with people, and I expect others to do that.
The other thing that I am big on is I'm
not a fan of hierarchy. It's just not who I am. Yes,
I happen to hold the role and title of CEO.
But my view is that each of us is equally important.
(26:13):
We just play different roles. So again, I try to
go to work and be a decent human being. I
really do. There are times I have to make tough decisions.
There are probably people who have worked with me listening
to this. Maybe they don't think I'm a good person,
but I certainly try to be a good person and
a good leader. But there are times that you have
(26:33):
to make really difficult decisions. And that's how we try
and build good culture. I mean, look, there are some
other things we do. We have a people and culture
kind of team that focuses on culture. We do a
lot of eating at THERIIQ, lots of social activities. We're
always in the kitchen, We're always eating, people are always baking.
There's a lot that sort of centers around food, which
(26:56):
I think makes people really happy. We do social activities,
but we also work really hard, right. We do all
sorts of things to try and measure, cure and make
sure that we're not believing our own hype. Are we perfect? No,
We're not perfect. I wish we were, but I'm yet
to find any kind of a workplace that is perfection.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I agree this is a little controversial, this one.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I'm interesting to you view recently, when I was talking
about my Brave VR product that we've just come out with,
one of the stats that I always find this mind
blowing is eighty three percent of all employees expect their
employer to provide personal development support. And when I've had
this conversation year's gone by, most people would say to me,
it's not our responsibility to provide that for employees. My
personal view is whether you think it's your responsibility or not,
(27:41):
that's what people expect, and it's becoming more and more
that people expected.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
So either it's you lean into it and provide it
or you don't. Totally open to your view on that one.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Oh, I think you've got to do that. We budget
for professional development for all of the team. There's one
column if you like, that's about professional development that all
of us will benefit from. Yep, so we might do
that as a team. And then there's professional development that
is very specific and relevant to your role. And my
view on that is, I'm not going to tell you
(28:11):
what professional development you should go do. In that latter category.
If you're the CFO, You're going to choose professional development
that's relevant to that role, that allows you to enhance
your skills in that area. I'm not going to know
what that looks like. My general counsel will pick and
choose what she goes to, and everyone will go off
and do whatever professional development they want. The other thing
(28:32):
we offer every team member at the ARIIQ is we
offer them the real estate registration course so they can
all do it free of charge, so that they actually
understand the people that we are serving. So I think
professional development is absolutely love that, like you, just a.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Great I can't avoid it.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, okay, I heard this great question the other day.
It's by a Harvard psychologist, Susan David. She's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I'm nervous you should be known.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
I'm key.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
It's basically what you told me. But I love this question, Antonia.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Why should anyone be led by you?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
You've really got mistuned. It's a great question.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Right all right? Well, I'm going to say I think
it's because I am the person who believes in the ARIIQ.
I genuinely believe in the ARIIQ. I believe in what
we're doing, and my role is to lead that organization.
But I can only do that with the support of
(29:32):
the team around me. And i'd like to think that
although I am the leader, my role is to bundle
everyone together and say, let's do this together.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Beautiful, because it's about your passion for it.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Why people should be led by you is because.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You believe in this and you're going to go to pustion,
You're going to advocate and you're going to do that
and that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
But I think it's a great question because.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I think it talks a lot the fact that if
I ask your staff, I bet you they would find
easier to articulate.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Well, it's a hard question, you said yourself. You're the
harshest critics on yourself.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Right, you talked before about your role at ARIOQ, but
also the charity work and the stuff that you do
to support, you know, the different groups across Brisbane. The
Forgotten Women is one that you're really passionate about. And
I think this is an amazing initiative which is obviously
committed to providing fit for purpose housing for homeless women
over fifty five years of age. And I think it's
a really really important cause and I wanted to mention it.
(30:26):
I'm here because I remember my mom, after going through
her divorce and having not worked for a lot of
her career, being in that exact potential position.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Like even myself.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I'm a single mum of kids, and you know, if
I don't make the money, there's no fallback, There's nowhere
for me to go.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And I can see how quickly and easily it could happen.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
And that's right. I'm so blessed to be in this role.
But none of us are immune from it. And I
think these are women over the age of fifty five,
and it is the largest growing demographic of homelessness. I
find that so disturbing when I think about my grandmother,
when I think about my mother, like aunties, sisters, our friends,
(31:06):
it's just women living in cars, and of course you
can imagine that comes with the fairly severe level of risk.
And what's really disturbing is that even though our charity
is dedicated to women over fifty five, the average age
of our clients it's actually seventy two, and we have
women that we are assisting who are in their nineteens.
(31:30):
Like you know, I say this to my kids all
the time. If we see a homeless person and we think, oh,
well they've chosen that, or you know, people make those
sorts of comments. You know, it's really not especially in
the current environment. It's one decision or one moment, correct,
that can lead you to that. That's why I felt
really compelled to get involved when I imagine them living
(31:53):
in cars or not having security of housing and actually
makes me feel ill. And so it's not talked about.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I feel like it's not talked about.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Well, it's not talked about a lot. It's only I
feel like it's a topic. It's not new, but it's
become far more prevalent, and we are now bringing it
out into the light and we're talking about it so
much more. That's not to say that I don't care
about men who are homeless, of course I do. But
I think we've got to recognize that the facts are
(32:24):
that this is affecting women over the age of fifty
five disproportionately correct. That's on account of economic and social
factors that I think we can all reckonect.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I mean, I think for both of us, why are
we so strong advocates for women pursuing careers? And it's
because of this right, Like you know, my mum's generation.
It wasn't pushed that she would go off and work,
and she stayed at home and she was a stay
at her mum. She was a great stay at homer.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah, but the result was, and I look, I don't
have daughters that I preach to all of my friend's daughters.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I'm like, get married, have kids, but get a career,
because you know what, as like, if it doesn't work
out and you can't guarantee that it's all going to
end in a fairy.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Tale, now you've got something to fall back on.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
And that's what I've seen of a lot of my
own friends going through marriage breakdowns and so forth, is
that they're not the bread warner. In fact, they might
have not worked for a really long time, and building
a career once you hit forty is challenging with the
current pricing crisis that we've got. So I think, you know,
I can see why this is happening now that we're
seeing women in that age bracket, and so I just, yeah,
I think it's something that is a really important cause.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, I feel really strongly about that particular cause. And
I'm also involved in a number of other initiatives that
relate to domestic and family violence. Again, that's something that
as a UNI student, a girlfriend of mine was a
social worker and she worked in a women's shelter and
I would volunteer there and help out. And you know,
at a very young age, I had a very probably
(33:46):
quite a sheltered upbringing. If I'm honest, I hadn't understood,
you know, when she first got me involved, I couldn't
quite comprehend. I was quite young, and so that really
opened my eyes to that issue. And of course, sadly,
you know, those rates of domestic violencer are higher than ever,
and of course that's also leading to homelessness. So I
(34:07):
feel really blessed that I'm able to get involved in
these other charities and initiatives and hopefully use I guess
the profile that I've been able to build to shine
a light on these issues and raise funds for them.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
You absolutely are.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Look, I could talk to you for ages, especially ever
a ball of pastor and a veno, but given it's
only eleven am, so I'm going to have to wrap
it up.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
One question for you, Antonia. All right, let's go back
to twenty year old Antonia. She's in South Australia. I'm
assuming yes, what's the best advice you would give to
her today?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Oh, I would tell her to have more fun. I
would tell her to have more fun and to try
and travel more. I have had fun. I probably took
life way too seriously at a young age, and as
a fifty year old woman, I would tell my twenty
year old self have more fun, don't take it all
so seriously, and travel more. Oh.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I love that absolutely well, it's been an a sleute
pleasure have been you, and genuinely mean this. I love
the work that you do, but I also I can
see why you will burn yourself to the ground sometimes
because what you do can have such amazing impact and
influence on people.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
And so it's been a pleasure. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
You've had a lot of fun there
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